Identiv Inc (INVE) 2010 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the fourth-quarter 2010 Identive Group, Inc. earnings conference call. My name is Francine and I am your coordinator for today.

女士們、先生們，大家好，歡迎參加Identive Group, Inc. 2010年第四季財報電話會議。我是今天的會議協調員，名叫Francine。

At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. Later we will conduct a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

目前所有參與者均處於唯讀模式。稍後我們將進行問答環節。 （操作說明）

I would now like to turn the presentation over to your host for today Ms. Darby Dye. Ma'am, you may proceed.

現在我把今天的演講交給主持人達比戴女士。女士，您可以開始了。

Thank you. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Speaking on today's call are Ayman Ashour, Chairman and CEO; and Melvin Denton-Thompson, CFO of Identive. The purpose of today's conference call is to supplement the information provided in our press release which was issued earlier today announcing the Company's financial results for the fourth quarter and year ended December 31, 2010.

謝謝。大家好，感謝各位今天參加我們的電話會議。今天出席會議的有Identive公司董事長兼執行長Ayman Ashour先生和財務長Melvin Denton-Thompson先生。本次電話會議旨在補充我們今天早些時候發布的新聞稿中的信息，該新聞稿公佈了該公司截至2010年12月31日的第四季度和全年財務業績。

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that various remarks we make on this call including those about our projected future financial results, economic and market trends and our competitive position constitute forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements and all other statements made on this call that are not historical facts are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially.

在會議開始之前，我想提醒各位，我們在本次電話會議中發表的各種言論，包括關於我們未來財務業績預測、經濟和市場趨勢以及我們競爭地位的言論，均構成前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述以及本次電話會議中所有其他非歷史事實的陳述均受諸多風險和不確定因素的影響，可能導致實際結果與預期有重大差異。

The forward-looking statements we make today speak as of today and we do not undertake any obligation to update any such statements to reflect events or circumstances occurring after today. Please refer to today's press release, our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2009 and subsequent SEC filings for a description of factors that could cause forward-looking statements to differ materially from actual results.

我們今天所作的前瞻性陳述僅代表截至今日的觀點，我們不承擔任何義務更新此類陳述以反映今日之後發生的事件或情況。有關可能導致前瞻性陳述與實際結果有重大差異的因素的說明，請參閱今天的新聞稿、我們截至2009年12月31日止年度的10-K表格年度報告以及隨後提交給美國證券交易委員會（SEC）的文件。

During this conference call, we will also be making reference to non-GAAP results or projections including non-GAAP gross margins, overhead costs, adjusted EBITDA and non-GAAP EPS. These non-GAAP measures exclude all or some of the following; acquisition, transition and integration costs; equity-based compensation expense, overhead allocations and amortization and depreciation.

在本次電話會議中，我們也將提及非公認會計準則（非GAAP）下的績效或預測，包括非GAAP毛利率、管理費用、調整後EBITDA及非GAAP每股盈餘。這些非GAAP指標不包括以下全部或部分項目：收購、過渡和整合成本；股權激勵費用、管理費用分攤以及攤銷和折舊。

Identive uses these non-GAAP measures internally and believe that they provide a meaningful way for investors to evaluate our operating performance but cautions investors to consider these measures in addition to not as a substitute for nor superior to Identive's consolidated financial results as presented in accordance with GAAP. A complete reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures is included in today's press release which is available on the Investor Relations section at Identive's website.

Identive內部使用這些非GAAP財務指標，並認為這些指標能為投資人評估我們的經營績效提供有意義的參考。但Identive提醒投資者，應將這些指標作為補充訊息，而非替代或優於依照GAAP編制的Identive合併財務報表。今日發布的新聞稿中包含GAAP和非GAAP財務指標的完整調節表，該新聞稿可在Identive網站的投資者關係欄位中查閱。

As a reminder, today's call is also available as a webcast with slides which can be accessed from the Investor Relations section of our website at www.identive-group.com. If you're viewing the webcast, you may enlarge the slides of this presentation by clicking on the magnifying lens in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen. I would now like to turn the call over to Ayman Ashour.

提醒各位，今天的電話會議也提供網路直播，您可以透過我們網站 www.identive-group.com 的「投資者關係」頁面存取幻燈片。如果您正在觀看網路直播，可以點擊螢幕右下角的放大鏡圖示放大幻燈片。現在，我將把電話會議交給艾曼·阿舒爾先生。

Good morning and thank you, Darby, and thank you all of you for joining us today. Q4 was another quarter of positive momentum for Identive both in terms of our market position and actual financial performance.

早安，謝謝Darby，也謝謝各位今天蒞臨。第四季對於Identive而言，無論從市場地位或實際財務表現來看，都延續了積極的發展勢頭。

Our sales grew to $27.8 million for the quarter, up significantly year on year and sequentially. We continue to be very active in the US government space and began a significant professional services contract with the Internal Revenue Service or the IRS that signals a first phase of a multiyear project [to form] new access control systems at several hundred IRS facilities throughout the US.

本季銷售額成長至 2,780 萬美元，年成長和季比均顯著成長。我們繼續積極拓展美國政府業務，並與美國國稅局 (IRS) 簽訂了一份重要的專業服務合同，這標誌著一項多年項目的第一階段正式啟動，該項目旨在為遍布全美數百個 IRS 設施部署新的門禁系統。

We also completed and shifted several hundred thousand IT secure reader kits for the German government electronic citizen ID program. To date, we have recognized approximately $5.5 million of revenue for this program.

我們也為德國政府的電子公民識別專案完成了數十萬套IT安全讀卡機套件的交付。迄今為止，我們已從該項目中獲得約550萬美元的收入。

We achieved another record quarter in our transponder business with sequentially higher sales driven by a variety of RFID applications from payment stickers for mobile phones to [seasonal key tickets] to ticketing for transport, amusement parks, etc. as well as tracking in pharmaceutical and other sensitive applications.

我們的應答器業務又創下了一個創紀錄的季度，銷售額環比增長，這得益於各種 RFID 應用，從手機支付貼紙到季節性鑰匙票，再到交通、遊樂園等的票務，以及在製藥和其他敏感應用中的追踪。

The addition of production capacity from our Smartag acquisition completed in late November further boosted sales in our transponder business. Q4 was also strong for our ID integration business in the payment area in Holland and in various consumer, citizen, student and healthcare ID applications in US, Switzerland, Germany and Australia.

11月底完成的對Smartag的收購，新增產能進一步推動了我們應答器業務的銷售。第四季度，我們在荷蘭支付領域以及美國、瑞士、德國和澳洲的各類消費者、公民、學生和醫療保健識別應用領域的識別整合業務也表現強勁。

Our adjusted EBITDA performance improved across nearly all parts of our business and in Q4 we achieved overall adjusted EBITDA of $2.9 million. We completed the acquisition of Smartag in November for a combination of cash and debt.

我們調整後的 EBITDA 在幾乎所有業務領域都有所改善，第四季度整體調整後 EBITDA 達到 290 萬美元。我們於 11 月完成了對 Smartag 的收購，收購方式為現金加債務。

Smartag brings us needed additional manufacturing capacity as well as important alliances in the near field communications and strong position in the payment market. Smartag being based in Singapore gives us an important and a really solid entry point into the Southeast Asian region.

Smartag 為我們帶來了所需的額外產能，以及在近場通訊領域的重要聯盟和在支付市場的強大地位。 Smartag 總部位於新加坡，這為我們進入東南亞市場提供了重要且穩固的切入點。

Smartag integration has been ongoing and we are expecting to relocate into a new manufacturing facility in the coming months. The acquisition will be accretive to adjusted EBITDA in 2011.

Smartag的整合工作一直在進行中，我們預計在未來幾個月內搬遷至新的生產基地。此次收購將提升2011年調整後的EBITDA。

We have had to inject significant cash into Smartag immediately after the acquisition to fund working capital needs which were very low at the time of closing. The deal as you recall was subject to a net asset adjustment, so that additional cash got deducted from the price we have had to pay from the consideration.

收購完成後，我們不得不立即向Smartag注入大量資金，以滿足當時極低的營運資金需求。如您所知，這筆交易需要進行淨資產調整，因此這筆額外的現金從我們支付的對價中扣除。

During Q4, we also completed a private placement on favorable terms to the group of our common stock on warrants and this resulted in net proceeds of $9.6 million. This will be used to fund future acquisitions, growth activities, integration, etc.

第四季度，我們也以優惠條件向集團完成了普通股認股權證的私募配售，淨收益為960萬美元。這筆資金將用於未來的收購、成長活動、整合等。

After accounting for the working capital and the cash used for the Smartag deal, we ended the quarter with cash and cash equivalents of $10.8 million compared to $6.2 million at the end of Q3. Our reported Q4 revenues as you would have noticed in the press release reflected our decision to move approximately $2.8 million of revenue from Q3 into Q4.

扣除營運資金及用於Smartag交易的現金後，本季末我們的現金及現金等價物為1,080萬美元，而第三季末為620萬美元。正如您在新聞稿中看到的，我們公佈的第四季度收入反映了我們將約280萬美元的收入從第三季度轉移至第四季度的決定。

During Q3 we shipped several hundred thousand German electronic ID programs to a major technology publication in Germany which were then shipped onto the readers or the subscribers of the magazine. The shipments to the subscribers did not actually occur in Q3.

第三季度，我們向德國一家大型科技出版物交付了數十萬份德國電子識別程序，這些程序隨後被發送給了該雜誌的讀者或訂閱用戶。但實際上，發送給訂閱用戶的程式並非發生在第三季。

Therefore our criteria for recognizing the revenue fully for Q3 were not met but it was only met in Q4. So, as a result, we have restated our Q3 revenues to $2.8 million lower than previously reported with a corresponding impact on operating profit and net income.

因此，我們第三季確認全部收入的標準未能達到，而第四季才達到。所以，我們將第三季收入重述為比之前報告的低280萬美元，這將對營業利潤和淨利潤產生相應影響。

This obviously boosted our Q4 performance. But even without the additional Q4 performance of the $2.8 million, we still had significant sales growth of 115% on a Q4 against last year's Q4 with approximately 20% of organic growth. So we applied the -- so overall we feel pretty good about the quarter.

這顯然提升了我們第四季的業績。但即使不計入這額外的280萬美元，我們第四季的銷售額仍然實現了115%的顯著成長，其中約20%來自內生成長。因此，總的來說，我們對本季的業績相當滿意。

I just want to move on now to take a look at 2010 as a whole. 2010 was our first year at Identive. So it was truly a transformative year for us.

現在我想直接跳到2010年整體回顧一下。 2010年是我們加入Identive的第一年，所以對我們來說，這真是意義非凡的一年。

We completed significant integration work between SCM and Bluehill ID companies and as well as follow-on acquisition of RockWest in April. Today, we operate as one company, Identive Group, with a greater scale, strong position in key growth markets and a clear focus on building the world's signature group in secure ID.

我們已完成SCM和Bluehill ID兩家公司之間的重要整合工作，並在4月完成了對RockWest的後續收購。如今，我們以Identive Group的名義經營，規模更大，在關鍵成長市場擁有穩固的地位，並明確致力於打造全球領先的安全識別集團。

It will of course be an exaggeration to say that the integration and the one company is 100% complete. But I would in all honesty characterize the integration with the exception of our latest acquisition of Smartag to be truly substantially complete.

當然，說整合和合併成一家公司已經100%完成是誇張的。但說實話，除了我們最近收購Smartag之外，整合工作基本上已經完成。

Early in 2010, we also put in place strong management team with significant experience in this business. We have added during the year several additional people that offered a significant added depth and experience in ID and the security industry.

2010年初，我們組建了一支經驗豐富的強大管理團隊。同年，我們又增添了幾位人才，他們在身分識別和安防產業方面帶來了更深厚的專業知識和經驗。

Our full-year revenues for 2010 come at $84.8 million, more than double the sales levels of 2009. Both of course are the result of acquisitions as well as organic growth.

我們2010年的全年營收為8,480萬美元，是2009年銷售額的兩倍多。當然，這兩項成長都是收購和自身成長共同作用的結果。

While we have cut major costs out of the organization and exited some activity which we did not believe to be attractive, we still generated organic growth of about 9%. So while integrating, doubling the size, cutting the cost, we were still able to deliver organic growth.

儘管我們大幅削減了組織成本，並退出了一些我們認為沒有吸引力的業務，但我們仍然實現了約 9% 的內生成長。因此，在整合、規模翻倍、削減成本的同時，我們仍能達到內生成長。

Back in March of 2010, we had put a target of reducing our overhead by $4.5 million during 2010. In fact, we exceeded this and have actually reduced our overhead by approximately $5.3 million in 2010.

早在 2010 年 3 月，我們就設定了 2010 年營運成本降低 450 萬美元的目標。事實上，我們超額完成了這個目標，在 2010 年實際降低了約 530 萬美元的營運成本。

On the market side, we see good momentum across our business globally. We achieved important significant wins with various US governments such as the Departments of Justice, Treasury and State; significant work also in the US healthcare sector.

在市場方面，我們的全球業務發展勢頭良好。我們與美國各級政府部門，例如司法部、財政部和國務院，取得了重要的合作成果；在美國醫療保健領域也取得了顯著進展。

And of course you are aware of the SCM and Microsystems card reader and Multicard fulfillment and software work where we were selected for the German electronic ID program, receiving approximately $12 million in contracts. In addition, during the year, Holland's largest financial institution or bank, Rabobank, selected Multicard for our cashless payment systems, providing near field communication or NFC stickers for mobile phones as well as personalization fulfillment, key management and software services. These wins and many other wins in Japan, China, United Arab Emirates and across the globe helped us and will help us drive revenues and further strengthen our position in key markets.

當然，您也了解我們為SCM和Microsystems提供的讀卡機以及Multicard的軟體和配套服務，我們因此被選中參與德國電子識別項目，並獲得了價值約1200萬美元的合約。此外，今年荷蘭最大的金融機構——荷蘭合作銀行（Rabobank）也選擇了Multicard的非現金支付系統，為其提供用於手機的近場通訊（NFC）標籤，以及個人化客製化、金鑰管理和軟體服務。這些以及我們在日本、中國、阿聯酋和全球範圍內贏得的眾多其他項目，都已並將繼續助力我們提升營收，並進一步鞏固我們在關鍵市場的地位。

Our RFID transponder business had growth of 45% year on year and that was before the acquisition of Smartag. We are seeing so far in 2011 continued strong growth in this area.

我們的RFID應答器業務年增45%，這還是在收購Smartag之前。 2011年至今，我們看到該領域持續保持強勁成長。

While we do still have our fair share of areas of poor performance where we still need to work harder and improve, our utilization of working capital continues to be very poor. You will see that as we grow sales, we are also growing capital at an almost one-to-one ratio, eating up inventory and not managing our payables.

儘管我們仍有一些表現不佳的領域需要改進，但我們的營運資金利用率仍然非常低。你會發現，隨著銷售額的成長，我們的資金成長幾乎與銷售額成長成正比，導致庫存迅速消耗殆盡，應付帳款管理不善。

Our supply chain is too long. So, part of our overall management resources that we have added is Brent Archer, our new VP of Operations and Supply Chain. Brent has worked with several of us on the management team in the past. His knowledge of the RFID business and his experience in the industry is phenomenal, so we are looking forward to improvement in this area.

我們的供應鏈過長。因此，我們新增了管理資源，其中包括新任營運和供應鏈副總裁布倫特·阿徹。布倫特之前曾與我們管理團隊的多位成員共事。他對RFID業務的了解以及在該行業的豐富經驗都非常出色，我們期待他能在這個領域帶來改進。

In 2010 we also had some growing pains in our RFID manufacturer area and as you can imagine, with the sort of growth we had, 45%, the inefficiency [and scrap] were not as we would have liked them to be, so that we have had problems with inefficiency [in scrap]. These were particularly acute in Q3, Q4 got better but we're not completely out of the woods yet.

2010年，我們的RFID製造業務也經歷了一些成長的陣痛。如您所想，由於業務成長高達45%，效率低下（以及廢品率上升）的情況並不理想，因此我們在廢品率方面遇到了一些問題。這些問題在第三季尤為突出，第四季有所好轉，但我們尚未完全擺脫困境。

Silicon shortages continue to cost us business with significant deferrals of salesforce in Japan, Australia and also in Europe. And finally while we have reduced our overhead quite a bit, our G&A still remains very high as a percentage of sales.

矽晶片短缺持續對我們造成業務損失，導致我們在日本、澳洲和歐洲的銷售人員大幅減少。最後，儘管我們已大幅削減了管理費用，但一般及行政費用佔銷售額的比例仍然很高。

In summary, in our first year as Identive Group, we have established the Company as an innovative leader in secure ID, a serious company with an effective business model that is looking to deliver results today and not promising on great results in the future. So I will at this point in time turn over to Melvin, Melvin Denton-Thompson, our CFO, who will take you through the results for the quarter and for the year. Melvin?

總而言之，身為Identive Group，在成立的第一年，我們已將公司打造成為安全身分識別領域的創新領導者，一家擁有高效商業模式、注重當下業績而非空談未來的公司。接下來，我將把發言權交給我們的財務長梅爾文·丹頓-湯普森，他將為大家介紹本季和全年的業績。梅爾文？

Thank you very much, Ayman. In the following, I will talk about the 2010 financials, compared with both actuals for the prior year and the pro forma numbers for the prior year to show the impact of the acquisitions on the financials.

非常感謝，艾曼。接下來，我將分析2010年的財務數據，並將其與前一年的實際數據和前一年的預測數據進行比較，以顯示收購對財務狀況的影響。

The full-year 2010 revenues of $84.8 million represents 105% growth over the 2009 actuals and 9% growth over the 2009 performance, reflecting the net organic growth. Full-year gross profit margin was 48% compared to 52% in the prior year. The reduction reflects the impact of product mix particularly from the acquisitions.

2010年全年營收為8,480萬美元，較2009年實際營收成長105%，較2009年同期成長9%，反映了淨內生成長。全年毛利率為48%，低於去年的52%。毛利率下降主要反映了產品組合變化的影響，尤其是收購帶來的影響。

However, the gross margin percentage increased from 45% reflected in the pro forma numbers. Total overheads for the year were higher than prior year due to the acquisition which were $8.3 million lower than the pro forma total overhead, reflecting the effect of the cost reduction program initiated in 2010 and the full-year effect of actions taken prior to that.

然而，毛利率從備考數據中顯示的45%有所提高。由於收購，本年度的總管理費用高於上年，但比備考總管理費用低830萬美元，這反映了2010年啟動的成本削減計劃的效果以及此前採取的各項措施的全年影響。

The results of an adjusted EBITDA positive of $1.1 million for the full year which was an $8.6 million improvement over the adjusted EBITDA in the prior year and an improvement of $13.9 million over the pro forma 2009 adjusted EBITDA. Charts on the next slide show the Q4 and full-year revenue and gross margin development.

全年經調整EBITDA為正110萬美元，較上年同期經調整EBITDA成長860萬美元，較2009年備考經調整EBITDA成長1,390萬美元。下一張投影片中的圖表展示了第四季及全年營收和毛利率的變化。

Q4 growth was 134% over prior year and 21% over the pro forma numbers including acquisitions. Q4 margins at 46% were relatively stable compared to the prior year which showed an increase from 42% in the pro forma numbers due to the product and business mix.

第四季年增134%，較包含收購在內的備考數據成長21%。第四季利潤率為46%，與上年同期相比相對穩定；而由於產品和業務組合的變化，備考數據的利潤率從42%有所提高。

On the next slide, we show the total overhead movement in Q4 and full year compared to the revenue development. While Q4 revenues grew by 134% over prior year, the overheads increased only marginally from $9.1 million to $10 million.

下一張投影片展示了第四季度和全年總營運成本的變化情況，並與收入成長進行了比較。雖然第四季營收較上年同期成長了134%，但營運成本僅略微增加，從910萬美元增至1,000萬美元。

Overheads reduced from 13.4 in the pro forma numbers for Q4 2009. For the full year, compared to the 2009 pro formas, the overheads reduced by 17% with sales increasing by 9%. The overheads were $40 million compared to pro forma overheads of $48.2 million.

2009年第四季，管理費用從備考資料中的13.4%下降。全年來看，與2009年備考數據相比，管理費用下降了17%，而銷售額則增加了9%。實際管理費用為4000萬美元，而備考數據為4820萬美元。

Next slide shows the improvement in the adjusted EBITDA for both Q4 and the full year, the improvements being driven both by the sales growth and the improvements in overheads. The adjusted EBITDA for Q4 was $2.9 million positive compared to negative $3.7 million in the same period in 2009 and compared to negative $3.9 million in the Q4 2009 pro formas.

下一張投影片顯示了第四季度和全年調整後 EBITDA 的改善情況，這項改善主要得益於銷售成長和管理費用的改善。第四季調整後 EBITDA 為正 290 萬美元，而 2009 年同期為負 370 萬美元，2009 年第四季備考數據也為負 390 萬美元。

For the full year the adjusted EBITDA was $1.1 million positive showing an $8.6 million improvement over the 2009 numbers and a $13.9 million improvement over the 2009 pro formas. Moving on to the reconciling items between the adjusted EBITDA and the GAAP loss from continuing operations before taxes, depreciation and amortization is principally amortization of intangibles arising from acquisitions and totaled $4.7 million in the year.

全年調整後 EBITDA 為正值 110 萬美元，較 2009 年同期成長 860 萬美元，較 2009 年備考資料成長 1,390 萬美元。接下來分析調整後 EBITDA 與持續營業稅前 GAAP 虧損之間的調節項目。折舊和攤銷主要包括收購產生的無形資產攤銷，全年總計 470 萬美元。

Equity-based compensation was at a similar level to the 2009 pro forma numbers at $2.5 million. Post-acquisition and reorganization costs reduced substantially from $5.1 million in the 2009 pro forma numbers to $2.3 million in 2010.

股權激勵支出與 2009 年的備考數據基本持平，為 250 萬美元。收購和重組後的成本從 2009 年備考數據的 510 萬美元大幅下降至 2010 年的 230 萬美元。

Acquisition costs also reduced substantially from the 2009 pro forma numbers of $5.6 million down to $1.5 million in 2010. The resulting loss from continuing operations was reduced from $16.1 million in 2009 to $10.7 million in 2010. The loss from continuing operations before income taxes in the 2009 pro forma financials was $32 million.

收購成本也大幅下降，從2009年預計的560萬美元降至2010年的150萬美元。由此導致的持續經營虧損也從2009年的1,610萬美元減少到2010年的1,070萬美元。 2009年預計財務報表中的稅前持續經營虧損為3,200萬美元。

Let's move on to the balance sheet. Cash at the year-end was $10.8 million compared to $6.2 million at the end of Q3. The increase results from the net proceeds from the private placement completed in November and from income from operations offset by the costs associated with the acquisition and funding of Smartag that Ayman has already referred to, and offset by the increase in working capital. While an increase in working capital is required to support the growth, as Ayman has already mentioned, we are focusing on working capital improvements around the Group.

接下來我們來看資產負債表。截至年末，現金為1,080萬美元，而第三季末為620萬美元。現金增加主要來自11月份完成的私募配售所得淨收益以及經營收入，但部分被Ayman之前提到的收購和融資Smartag的相關成本所抵消，並被營運資本的增加所部分抵消。正如Ayman先前所提到的，雖然需要增加營運資本來支持成長，但我們目前正致力於改善集團各部門的營運資本狀況。

Mortgage loans amounts payable increased due to a [low note] relating to the acquisition of Smartag which will be paid down over 13 months. And with that, I shall hand back to Ayman who will talk about the outlook for 2011.

由於收購Smartag產生的一筆小額貸款，抵押貸款應付金額增加，這筆貸款將在13個月內償還。接下來，我將把麥克風交還給艾曼，他將談論2011年的展望。

Thank you, Melvin. We enter 2011 with a strong momentum. Our order book is at a record $22 million. Of this $22 million, $6.5 million is for the German citizen ID program, and we also see significant activity in ID projects around the world and in different countries.

謝謝你，梅爾文。我們以強勁的發展勢頭進入2011年。我們的訂單總額達到了創紀錄的2200萬美元。在這2200萬美元中，650萬美元來自德國公民身份識別項目，此外，我們在世界各地和不同國家的身份識別項目也取得了顯著進展。

We are well positioned in many other national ID programs, programs having already supplied first-generation products for different markets from Japan, to Spain and many other countries. In the US market and with the various government mandates, we have already demonstrated that we are well positioned for additional business as more agencies of the US government upgrade their systems to comply with the requirements of HSPD 5 and 12, that's Homeland Security Presidential Directives number 5 and 12 and the Federal Information Processing Standards of FIPs.

我們在許多其他國家識別項目中佔據有利地位，這些項目已為包括日本、西班牙等在內的多個市場提供了第一代產品。在美國市場，隨著美國政府各部門升級系統以符合國土安全總統指令第5號和第12號以及聯邦資訊處理標準（FIPs）的要求，我們已經證明，憑藉這些政府指令，我們完全有能力拓展業務。

All of these standards require the secure upgrade of government employee credentials to ensure the use of -- the secure use of one credential for access to physical buildings as well as IT systems and networks. We are also seeing private industries such as utilities and other critical infrastructure adopting very similar approach to the government and we're beginning to see inquiries and activities in this area.

所有這些標準都要求對政府僱員的憑證進行安全升級，以確保使用單一憑證安全地存取實體建築、IT系統和網路。我們也看到，公用事業和其他關鍵基礎設施等私人企業正在採用與政府非常相似的方法，我們開始看到這方面的諮詢和活動。

We are seeing new opportunities with student ID and healthcare applications for access control, security systems and patient ID. We are also expanding our R&D activity to take advantage of several market opportunities that we see, and we are adding sales presence and sales people and expanding resources in France, UK, Latin America, Singapore and India as well as our existing primary markets.

我們看到了學生證和醫療保健應用領域的新機遇，例如門禁控制、安防系統和病患身分識別。我們也正在擴大研發投入，以掌握我們所看到的多個市場機會。此外，我們還在法國、英國、拉丁美洲、新加坡和印度以及我們現有的主要市場增設銷售機構、增加銷售人員並擴大資源投入。

In Asia Pacific and in Europe, we are seeing important developments in the area of mobile ID. The market excitement about the adoption of the NFC or the near field communication technology with mobile phones has been very, very active. In the markets there's been nonstop activity in this area.

在亞太地區和歐洲，我們看到行動身分識別領域取得了重要進展。市場對近場通訊（NFC）技術在行動電話中的應用表現出極大的熱情。在這一領域，市場活動從未間斷。

The new devices will turn mobile phones essentially into an electronic ID for the masses. So we're expecting this market to develop very rapidly and we expect a great deal of change in the way and the form of the development to occur as is normal in a new innovative, high-tech application for the consumer market.

這些新設備將使手機本質上成為大眾的電子身分證。因此，我們預期這個市場將發展得非常迅速，正如面向消費市場的新型創新高科技應用一樣，其發展方式和形式也將發生巨大變化。

Our competence across the whole of the value chain of RFID and secure ID puts us in a good position to participate in this area. We are already active with several telcos, handset manufacturers, financial industry, the banks or credit cards as well as a variety of retailers. So this is an area that we are particularly excited about in 2011 and beyond.

我們在RFID和安全身分識別整個價值鏈上的強大實力，使我們能夠很好地參與這一領域。我們目前已與多家電信業者、手機製造商、金融機構、銀行、信用卡公司以及各類零售商合作。因此，我們對2011年及以後在這領域的發展前景尤為樂觀。

With this, I'll move onto our projections for 2011. We are projecting our revenues for 2011 to be in the range of $100 million to $110 million with gross margins between 48 and 50%. We are projecting an increase in our overhead to between $43.5 million and $45.5 million, and we're projecting an adjusted EBITDA of between $5 million and $7.5 million.

接下來，我將介紹我們對2011年的預測。我們預計2011年的營收將在1億美元至1.1億美元之間，毛利率在48%至50%之間。我們預計營運成本將增加至4,350萬美元至4,550萬美元，調整後的EBITDA預計在500萬美元至750萬美元之間。

And with that, I would like to really turn the call back to the operator and open it for any questions. Thank you.

那麼，我把電話轉回給接線生，歡迎大家提問。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Ilya Grozovsky, Morgan Joseph.

（操作說明）伊利亞·格羅佐夫斯基，摩根·約瑟夫。

So I had a couple of brief questions. You guys had mentioned that the backlog going into 2011 stood at about $22 million. What was the backlog going into the fourth quarter?

我有幾個簡短的問題。你們之前提到2011年初的積壓訂單約為2,200萬美元。那麼第四季的積壓訂單是多少呢？

I think we'll have to look into that because of the revenue recognition. I can tell you that my recollection is that the back -- I remember the backlog into Q1 was about $12 million or so, but I will have to -- while we're here, we'll have to see if somebody can calculate the revision from the Q3 with the restatement of the revenue.

我認為我們需要調查一下收入確認方面的問題。我記得第一季的積壓訂單大約是1200萬美元左右，但既然我們在這裡，我得看看有沒有人能根據第三季收入重述的情況計算一下修正值。

Okay, and now on the restatement, so how did this -- can you just take me through how this sort of came about? Was it the auditors that came to you and told you that you need to move the revenues around or did you do it on your own? Or sort of what's the mechanics there?

好的，現在來談談重述財務報表的問題，可以簡單介紹一下整個過程嗎？是審計人員主動要求您調整收入結構，還是您自己做的？具體操作流程是怎麼樣的？

It's really with the year-end process as you are reviewing things and a bit deeper, and we had more shipments to the same magazine. And going through the contract in detail, we determined that our obligation -- it was a partnership agreement. Our obligation did not simply fans by doing our bit and delivering it to the magazine. It actually ended by the magazine delivering to the subscribers.

確實，在年終總結階段，當我們回顧各項工作並進行更深入的分析時，會發現我們向同一家雜誌寄送的商品數量有所增加。仔細審查合約後，我們確定了我們的義務——這是一份合作協議。我們的義務不僅僅是按時完成工作並將商品交付給雜誌社。最終，雜誌社將商品交付給訂閱用戶才是最終的交付方式。

So that's why we decided the appropriate thing to comply with our own standards and to comply with the accounting standards was to restate it which also affected our revenue in Q4 because we had some more deliveries in Q4 that we did not recognize that will be recognized when they are delivered in Q1 or Q2 of this year.

因此，我們決定，為了符合我們自己的標準和會計準則，最合適的做法是重述該報表，這也影響了我們第四季度的收入，因為我們在第四季度還有一些未確認的交付，這些交付將在今年第一季或第二季交付時確認。

You mean just based on the same principles?

你的意思是說，只是基於相同的原則嗎？

Exactly, exactly.

完全正確。

So then looking back into the third quarter where the revenues came out of, obviously it was a flat sequential quarter. What -- obviously this is a fourth-quarter call, but given the numbers moving around a little bit, what is your reflections then on how that quarter shaped up?

回顧第三季度，也就是營收所在的季度，顯然與上一季持平。當然，現在是第四季財報電話會議，但考慮到數據略有波動，您對第四季的表現有何看法？

Well, it is -- I think we are reasonably happy with both Q3 and Q4 in combination. If you look at the second half of the year as one unit, one unit against the second half of last year or against the first half of the year, so it is -- we don't see that as an issue really.

嗯，我認為我們對第三季和第四季的整體業績都比較滿意。如果把下半年看成一個整體，與去年同期或上半年相比，那麼──我們並不認為這是一個問題。

So overall, we're pretty comfortable with the development of the business. And if you recall in Q3, the shortage of semiconductors was much more acute than it is now, so it was really a matter of deciding which ones to ship. So we're not particularly worried about the sequential, and our projection is that the seasonality of the business has somewhat steadied, but Q3 still remains one of the quarters that we will look at with a fair degree of strength.

總的來說，我們對業務發展狀況相當滿意。如果您還記得第三季的情況，當時半導體短缺比現在嚴重得多，所以關鍵在於決定交付哪些產品。因此，我們並不特別擔心環比成長，而且我們預期業務的季節性波動已經有所緩解，但第三季仍然是我們最看好的季度之一。

Okay, and you've obviously given guidance for the full year for 2011. What does the March quarter look like? We're obviously almost two-thirds of the way done here. Is there any seasonality or should we look for a sequential increase in the March quarter?

好的，您顯然已經給了2011年全年的業績指引。那麼3月的季度業績如何呢？現在季度已經過了將近三分之二。是否存在季節性因素，或者我們是否應該預期3月份的季度業績會較上季成長？

I think we don't want to get into giving quarterly guidance, Ilya, but I think generally we expect the second half to be stronger. So our general expectation is the second half of the year is stronger.

伊利亞，我覺得我們不想給出季度業績指引，但總體而言，我們預計下半年業績會更好。所以我們的整體預期是下半年業績會更好。

Normally we would expect Q1 to be weaker. But so far it looks pretty good. I would be surprised if we have Q1 topping Q4. But it is looking reasonably good.

通常情況下，我們預期第一季業績會比較疲軟。但目前來看，情況相當不錯。如果第一季業績超過第四季度，我會感到驚訝。不過，目前看來情況相當樂觀。

Okay, great. Then just the last question. On your guidance for 2011, the gross margin 48 to 50, is that a GAAP number or is that a non-GAAP number?

好的，太好了。最後一個問題。關於您2011年的業績指引，毛利率48%到50%，這是GAAP準則下的資料還是非GAAP準則下的資料？

No, that is a non-GAAP number. That number is net of amortization, overhead allocations and equity-based compensation. Equity base is not very much and it is really the big number in it is the amortization because with the US GAAP amortization, we are often amortizing various engineering skills and know-how and all kinds of things into the gross margin and it makes it a little bit harder for a look at the trends. So we strip out really all the things that make it difficult for us to be able to look at the business on an ongoing basis.

不，那是非GAAP資料。這個數字已經扣除了攤提、間接費用分攤和股權激勵。股權基礎並不高，真正佔比最大的是攤銷，因為根據美國GAAP攤銷，我們通常會將各種工程技術、專有技術以及其他各種成本計入毛利率，這使得我們難以分析趨勢。所以，我們剔除了所有那些會妨礙我們持續分析業務的因素。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

(inaudible) Brothers.

（聽不清楚）兄弟。

Some questions regarding your fiscal year 2010 results. Let's start maybe with the sales. Maybe I missed that during the call. Can you provide us with a better feeling what was from the sales organic and what was due to acquisitions?

關於您2010財年的業績，我有一些問題。我們先從銷售額說起。我可能在電話會議中錯過了這部分。您能否更清楚說明一下，哪些銷售額來自自然成長，哪些來自收購？

Yes, I think -- good afternoon. I think if you look at one of the slides, what we have tried to do is we have tried to give you the actual statutory reporting of last year, and then we've taken a very prudent approach to the pro forma.

是的，我想——下午好。我想如果您看一下其中一張投影片，我們試圖向您展示去年的實際法定報告，然後我們對預測性報表採取了非常謹慎的做法。

So in the pro forma figures, we have included all the acquisitions for the respective periods. So you are looking at apples to apples, oranges to oranges. And I believe -- just one second here. Melvin, do you have that Q -- for the Q and for (multiple speakers)

所以，在預測數據中，我們已經包含了各個時期的所有收購項目。這樣一來，你看到的就是同類比較，而不是同類橘子比較。還有，請稍等一下。梅爾文，你準備好那個Q了嗎？ （多位發言人）

The full year was 9% organic growth.

全年有機成長率為9%。

9% full year?

全年9%？

9% full year, yes.

全年9%，沒錯。

The rest coming from acquisitions, okay. I mean I know that with GAAP and non-GAAP, you talked about that many times, but I'm trying to understand the cost platform which you have now. I mean obviously when you acquire a company, then your cost platform changes, so it's difficult for an external person to really get here a better feeling.

其餘來自收購，好的。我知道你們多次談到GAAP和非GAAP，但我現在想了解的是你們目前的成本會計體系。顯然，收購一家公司後，成本會計體係就會發生變化，所以外人很難真正深入了解。

But what can we assume for a cost platform OpEx run rate going forward? We have now in Q4 I think something more than $12 million. So it's a reasonable number for Q1 as well? Or were they are too many one-offs? What can be assumed here?

但我們該如何預測未來成本平台營運支出的運作率呢？目前第四季的數據超過1200萬美元。那麼第一季的數據也合理嗎？還是說其中包含了太多一次性支出？我們該如何預測？

I think if you look at the guidance we have given, because our guidance is based on -- for the full year is 43.5 to 45.5. There's obviously a part of it that is a variable that is volume dependent. But if you look -- so that's really -- the sort of 44 to 46% of revenues as overheads net of amortization and all the other adjustments that we make.

我認為，如果你看一下我們給予的業績指引，因為我們的指引是基於全年43.5%到45.5%的預期。顯然，其中一部分是受銷量影響的變數。但如果你看一下——所以實際上——扣除攤銷和我們所做的所有其他調整後，管理費用佔收入的44%到46%左右。

Sorry for interrupting, Ayman. But it's of course -- I mean for me it's difficult to see the amortization and all the non-GAAP positions.

抱歉打斷一下，艾曼。當然——我的意思是，對我來說，很難看清攤銷和所有非GAAP準則下的財務狀況。

But like taking really the cost like you have to report on a GAAP basis, what can we assume for OpEx run rate? This $12.3 million I think in fourth quarter, is it a reasonable number going forward or not? I mean like the way you report the numbers?

但如果依照GAAP準則來計算成本，我們對營運支出（OpEx）的運作率可以做何假設？第四季的1230萬美元，這個數字在未來是否合理？我的意思是，你們是如何報告這些數字的？

I'm not sure I fully understand the question. I think the 12.3 was for Q4 at fairly high level of sales. If you annualize the Q4 alone, you'll end up with a number that's higher than our guidance for the year.

我不太確定我是否完全理解了這個問題。我認為12.3是第四季的數據，當時的銷售額相當高。如果只計算第四季的銷售額，最終的數字會高於我們對全年的預期。

I think that includes the post-acquisition and acquisition cost items I guess which vary considerably depending on the activity that we have going forward.

我認為這包括收購後和收購成本項目，這些項目會根據我們未來的業務活動而有很大差異。

But will be like taking the business at this level, you know? And without acquisitions, what is a reasonable number for your cost platform per quarter now?

但你知道，這就像是把業務做到這個程度一樣。而且，如果不進行收購，你們平台每季的合理成本是多少？

Well, that's an easy question to answer because if you look at the guidance we have provided -- now I know that this guidance is non-GAAP. But if you go from there and you take a look at the amortization, you will have to make some slight adjustment before the amortization because the amortization for 2010 would have not included the full year of the acquisitions we made during the year.

這個問題很容易回答，因為如果您查看我們提供的指引——我知道這份指引不符合GAAP準則——如果您以此為基礎，再查看攤銷部分，您需要在攤銷前做一些微調，因為2010年的攤銷並未包含我們當年收購項目的全年攤銷。

So you have to make that adjustment which would be an additional adjustment. If you are assuming that we're not making any additional acquisition and therefore no additional integration, then you will obviously have to take that away.

所以你必須做出相應的調整，這將是一筆額外的調整。如果你假設我們不會進行任何額外的收購，因此也不會進行任何額外的整合，那麼你顯然需要把這部分調整也去掉。

We are not prepared to make that assumption and we're not prepared to give that guidance because we fully plan to continue to be active in the consolidation of the industry. So for me now or for us now to attempt to tell you how much we're going to pay and how much it will cost us to make an acquisition in May or June or August of 2011 and what the audit costs and the legal costs would be and what would the post-acquisition costs would be and what the resulting amortization from that acquisition during the year would be would be really just a completely academic and theoretical exercise that has zero chance of materializing. So we will end up looking back and thinking our -- the analysts who were covering us looking equally bad.

我們不願意做出這樣的假設，也不願提供這樣的指導，因為我們計劃繼續積極參與產業整合。所以，現在讓我或我們試著告訴您，我們將在2011年5月、6月或8月支付多少收購費用，以及審計費用、法律費用、收購後成本和當年的攤銷費用是多少，都只是純粹的理論探討，根本不可能實現。最終，我們會回頭看看，那些曾經關注我們的分析師們，也會覺得我們同樣不靠譜。

Yes, but -- yes, it's fair enough, I understand your point. But I think for the quarters, what we had now or in 2010 or Q4, so you have the numbers and it would be not difficult to give the numbers. But that's something different.

是的，但是──是的，你說得有道理，我明白你的意思。但我認為就季度而言，無論是我們現在的情況，還是2010年第四季的情況，你都有數據，給出數據並不難。但這又是另一回事了。

Okay, further questions. Regarding the German EID, what are here the lead times? We have seen I think in Q4 around 1.3 million IDs issued by the government or the officials. What are the lead times which you have here? I mean 6 million are expected for 2011 I think, so I'm just trying to get an understanding of the lead times where we stay in there.

好的，還有一些問題。關於德國的電子身分證（EID），這裡的辦理週期是多久？我們看到，在第四季度，政府或官員發放了大約130萬張身分證。你們這邊的辦理週期是多久？我的意思是，預計2011年將發放600萬張，所以我只是想了解我們這邊的辦理週期。

As you know, what we are doing is we are doing the secure reader kits which enable the interface between the actual credentials and whichever application they are being used for be it in a computer interface application or other application. So, our part of it, we are expecting that the $13 million or $12 million to $13 million contract we received last year will be shipped by the end of Q3 this year, that we are expecting to recognize the revenue by the end of Q3 2011. In terms of when the various actual credentials are being issued, our counterparts on that would be probably NXP or somebody else that you'll need to ask when they are shipping that.

如您所知，我們正在開發安全讀卡機套件，該套件能夠實現憑證與應用程式（無論是電腦介面應用程式還是其他應用程式）之間的介面。我們預計去年獲得的1,300萬美元或1,200萬至1,300萬美元的合約將於今年第三季末完成交付，並於2011年第三季末確認收入。至於各種憑證何時發放，我們的對接方可能是恩智浦半導體或其他公司，您需要向他們諮詢特定的交貨時間。

Okay, then you mentioned similar projects in other European countries; Spain, for example. Can you give here more details of what is the current stage with these programs?

好的，您剛才提到了其他歐洲國家也有類似的項目，例如西班牙。能否詳細介紹一下這些專案目前的進度？

Sure, I can try. There are various national ID projects around the world. Many of them have no smart card technology at all. Some have contact smart cards. some are coming up with the next generation contact smart card. Some are coming up with a next generation contactless or dual interface.

當然，我可以試試。世界各地都有各種各樣的國家身份證項目。其中許多項目根本沒有採用智慧卡技術。有些項目使用接觸式智慧卡。有些專案正在研發下一代接觸式智慧卡。還有一些專案正在研發下一代非接觸式或雙介面智慧卡。

We are active in many different projects and in many different countries. We are aware of additional and new upgrades in Japan for example where we are involved with the ID readers used for example for Japanese citizens to get a discount when they are filing their tax returns.

我們活躍於眾多不同項目，業務遍及多個國家。例如，我們了解到日本正在進行一些新的升級項目，我們參與了身分證讀取器的研發，日本公民可以透過該系統在申報納稅時獲得折扣。

So, these things are really coming out from the different governments and different -- following their own logic and their own schedule. Within Germany itself, if you look at the four contracts that we have supplied again -- or that we have been awarded, these contracts do not necessarily cover the whole of Germany yet.

所以，這些事情其實是由不同的政府按照各自的邏輯和時間表所出台的。就德國國內而言，如果我們看一下我們再次提供的——或者說我們獲得的——四份合同，這些合同目前並不一定覆蓋整個德國。

This is sort of a first run-through, and many cases are experimental cases. So there may very well be like our contact for the [North Rhineland Westphalia], that is a regional contract.

這算是初步試行，很多案例都是實驗性的。所以很可能像我們與北萊茵-威斯特法倫州的合約那樣，那是一份區域性合約。

There might be other regions that want to do similar things. So it is really different countries and different governments are working to their schedule. And quite often we're also not at liberty at discussing things until we have been permitted to do so.

可能還有其他地區也想做類似的事情。所以，確實是不同的國家和不同的政府在按照各自的時間表行事。而且很多時候，在我們獲得許可之前，我們也不能自由地討論某些事情。

Okay, then some further short questions. Your transponder business, impressive pickup here. But what is the utilization rate? And currently what you have here, you have some shortage problems in the past. What is the current stage here and maybe what are the capacities you currently have?

好的，接下來還有幾個簡短的問題。你們的應答器業務發展勢頭強勁，令人印象深刻。但是利用率是多少？你們之前遇到過一些短缺問題，現在情況如何？目前的產能是多少？

The shortages have not -- in Q4 have not affected our transponder business as much as they have affected our other businesses, the reader business and in some cases Multicard business in Australia. And I would say that the slippage was somewhere between $800,000 to $2 million, in that area.

第四季度，短缺對我們的應答器業務的影響遠不及其他業務，例如讀卡機業務，以及在澳洲部分的多卡業務。我認為，這方面的損失大約在80萬至200萬美元之間。

In terms of the capacity, we have expected that -- our expectation on the capacity is about $150 million. But this number varies quite a bit based on the kind of IC and the form factor.

就產能而言，我們預計—我們預計產能約為1.5億美元。但這個數字會根據積體電路的類型和外形尺寸而有很大差異。

Also very important thing that we look at is the turnover time. So if you have -- if you're making 10 million of something, we're much more efficient than if you're making 20 of 0.5 million of something.

我們關注的另一個非常重要的因素是周轉時間。所以，如果你生產1000萬件產品，我們的效率要比生產2000萬件或50萬件產品高很多。

So the turnover can be -- the changeover from one product to another can affect our capacity. But I would characterize our capacity right now to to be in the 125 million to 250 million range between Smartag and TagStar at our factories in Singapore and Germany. Have I answered the question?

所以，產品更替——從一種產品切換到另一種產品——可能會影響我們的產能。但我認為，目前我們在新加坡和德國的工廠，Smartag 和 TagStar 的總產能應該在 1.25 億到 2.5 億之間。我的回答是否解決了您的問題？

Yes, great. Then you mentioned SmartTrack, that they will contribute positively in 2011. What can we expect here? I know you don't -- maybe you will not disclose the numbers but what would be the positive effect?

是的，太好了。您剛才提到了SmartTrack，說他們將在2011年做出積極貢獻。我們能期待些什麼呢？我知道您也不知道——或許您不會透露具體數字——但究竟會有哪些正面影響呢？

Well first of all, SmartTrack is a different company. It's Smartag -- we've -- that is a part of Identive, not SmartTrack.

首先，SmartTrack是另一家公司。 Smartag－我們－是Identive的一部分，而不是SmartTrack。

I know SmartTrack, I am covering SmartTrack, don't worry.

我了解SmartTrack，我會負責SmartTrack的相關工作，請放心。

We are expecting a positive contribution. We have already started using the production capacity in Singapore to help with the shortage of capacity in Germany. But I'm not going to be able to break out for you that number.

我們預計會有正面貢獻。我們已經開始利用新加坡的生產能力來緩解德國的產能短缺問題。但我無法向您透露具體數字。

Okay, last question, acquisitions, Ayman. What kind of [fueled] maybe in transponder business or what can we expect here?

好的，最後一個問題，關於收購，艾曼。在應答器業務方面，可能會有哪些[推動因素]？或者我們可以期待些什麼？

I think if you -- we generally view that our core technology area of transponders and readers that we are really where we want to be. So we're not -- there might be some acquisition activity in that area to add capacity possibly, to sort of tweak some nice features in a product.

我認為，我們通常認為，我們在轉發器和讀取器的核心技術領域已經達到了我們想要的目標。所以我們目前沒有計劃在該領域進行一些收購活動，以增加產能，或對產品中的一些實用功能進行微調。

But in the core ID area, we feel really good about our strengths and our position. Where you would see us looking at any acquisitions is in terms of geographic coverage and in terms of certain vertical markets that we feel we don't have good enough access to. So it is really taking what we are doing now as a core technology and moving closer to our customer in -- either geographically or in a specific vertical.

但在核心身分識別領域，我們對自身的優勢和地位感到非常滿意。我們考慮收​​購的重點在於地域覆蓋範圍以及我們認為自身能力不足的特定垂直市場。因此，我們實際上是在鞏固現有核心技術，並以此為基礎，在地理上或特定垂直領域更貼近客戶。

Great, thanks a lot and good job, gentlemen.

太好了，非常感謝，幹得好，先生們。

Nathan Townsend, Lincoln Vale.

內森湯森，林肯谷。

Just a quick question. It's good see you both winning new project contracts and executing on the existing contracts, but can you give us some feel for recurring revenue?

請問一個簡單的問題。很高興看到你們都贏得了新的項目合同，並且順利履行了現有合同，但能否請你們談談經常性收入的情況？

Thank you. I think the recurring revenue for us has two parts. There are two parts to the question, to this.

謝謝。我認為我們的經常性收入包含兩個部分。這個問題也包含兩個部分。

In our ID products and components segment, we have -- you would not expect to see what is normally classified as recurring business. But we do have a fair amount of recurring revenue that is coming in from design-ins.

在我們的ID產品和組件業務板塊，我們有一些通常不屬於經常性業務的業務。但實際上，我們確實有相當一部分經常性收入來自設計引入。

So if we have our chipsets or our products designed into an HP or a Lenovo computer or if we have them designed in as part of a specific pharmaceutical application, you generally continue to get their recurring business for that as you go forward. Then there is the recurring business in terms of professional services, software maintenance and the like in our other segment, the identity management solutions and services segment, and I would estimate that to probably be 20%. So our estimate -- and that's a soft estimate -- is between 25 and 30% of the total. But that is a soft estimate, Nathan.

所以，如果我們的晶片組或產品被整合到惠普或聯想的電腦中，或者被整合到特定的製藥應用中，那麼隨著業務的拓展，我們通常能夠持續獲得他們的回頭客。此外，我們另一個業務部門——身分管理解決方案和服務板塊——也提供專業服務、軟體維護等方面的回頭客業務，我估計這部分業務佔比可能在20%左右。因此，我們的估計——這只是一個粗略的估計——在總收入的25%到30%之間。但這只是個粗略的估計，內森。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes the Q&A portion of our presentation. I would now like to turn the call back to over to Miss Darby Dye.

女士們、先生們，我們的問答環節到此結束。現在，我想把電話交還給達比·戴小姐。

Thank you, thank you all for joining us today. We look forward to updating you again at the end of our our first quarter and thank you very much. Bye bye.

非常感謝各位今天蒞臨。我們期待在第一季末再次向大家報告最新情況，再次感謝。再見。

Ladies and gentlemen thank you for your participation in today's conference. This concludes the presentation you may disconnect and have a great day.

女士們、先生們，感謝各位參加今天的會議。本次演講到此結束，您可以斷開連接，祝您有美好的一天。