(IHRT) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. My name is Audra, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the iHeartMedia Q3 2023 Earnings Call. Today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mike McGuinness, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

早安.我叫奧德拉，今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。此時此刻，我歡迎大家參加 iHeartMedia 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製中。 （操作員指示） 現在，我想將會議交給投資人關係主管 Mike McGuinness。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for taking the time to join us for our third quarter 2023 earnings call. Joining me for today's discussion are Bob Pittman, our Chairman and CEO; and Rich Bressler, our President, COO and CFO.

大家早安，感謝您抽出時間參加我們的 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。與我一起參加今天討論的是我們的董事長兼執行長 Bob Pittman；以及我們的總裁、營運長兼財務長 Rich Bressler。

At the conclusion of our prepared remarks, management will take your questions. In addition to our press release, we have an earnings presentation available on our website that you can use to follow along with our remarks.

在我們準備好的發言結束後，管理階層將回答您的問題。除了我們的新聞稿之外，我們的網站上還提供了收益演示文稿，您可以使用它來了解我們的評論。

Please note that this call may include forward-looking statements regarding our financial performance and operating results. These statements are based on management's current expectations, and actual results could differ from what is stated as a result of certain factors identified on today's call and in the company's SEC filings.

請注意，本次電話會議可能包括有關我們財務績效及經營績效的前瞻性陳述。這些聲明是基於管理層目前的預期，由於今天的電話會議和公司向 SEC 提交的文件中確定的某些因素，實際結果可能與所述結果有所不同。

Additionally, during this call, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings release, earnings presentation and our SEC filings, which are available in the Investor Relations section of our website.

此外，在本次電話會議中，我們將提及某些非公認會計準則財務指標。 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標之間的調整包含在我們的收益發布、收益簡報和 SEC 文件中，這些資訊可在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。

And now I'll turn the call over to Bob.

現在我將把電話轉給鮑伯。

Thanks, Mike, and good morning, everyone. We're pleased to report that our third quarter 2023 results were at the high end of our previously provided adjusted EBITDA and revenue guidance ranges. Throughout the year, we've seen gradual improvements in the advertising marketplace, which is reflected in the quarter-by-quarter sequential improvements in our advertising revenues. And despite the recent global geopolitical events, we expect that to continue through Q4.

謝謝麥克，大家早安。我們很高興地報告，我們 2023 年第三季的業績處於我們先前提供的調整後 EBITDA 和收入指導範圍的高端。在這一年中，我們看到廣告市場逐漸改善，這反映在我們廣告收入的逐季較上季改善。儘管最近發生了全球地緣政治事件，但我們預計這種情況將持續到第四季。

Now let me take you through some of the key financial results of the quarter. In the third quarter, we generated adjusted EBITDA of $204 million, at the high end of the guidance range we provided of $195 million to $205 million. Our consolidated revenues for the quarter were down 3.6% compared to the prior-year quarter, a little better than the guidance we provided of down mid-single digits. And excluding the impact of political, our consolidated revenues were down 1%.

現在讓我向您介紹本季的一些主要財務表現。第三季度，我們的調整後 EBITDA 為 2.04 億美元，處於我們提供的 1.95 億至 2.05 億美元指引範圍的上限。我們本季的綜合收入與去年同期相比下降了 3.6%，略好於我們提供的中個位數下降的指導。排除政治因素的影響，我們的綜合收入下降了 1%。

In the third quarter, we generated $68 million of free cash flow. In addition to our reported free cash flow, we also generated $45 million of cash from the sale of radio broadcast towers, which we'll use to pay down debt.

第三季度，我們產生了 6,800 萬美元的自由現金流。除了我們報告的自由現金流之外，我們還透過出售無線電廣播塔獲得了 4500 萬美元的現金，我們將用這些現金來償還債務。

Turning now to our individual operating segments. In the third quarter, the Digital Audio Group's revenues were $267 million, up 5.2% versus prior year. Adjusted EBITDA was $94 million, up 19.6% versus prior year. And the Digital Audio Group's adjusted EBITDA margins were 35%, up from 31% in Q3 2022. And in the third quarter, the Digital Audio Group accounted for 28% of our consolidated revenues.

現在轉向我們各自的營運部門。第三季度，數位音訊集團的營收為2.67億美元，比去年同期成長5.2%。調整後 EBITDA 為 9,400 萬美元，比上年增長 19.6%。數位音訊集團調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 35%，高於 2022 年第三季的 31%。第三季度，數位音訊集團占我們合併收入的 28%。

The Digital Audio Group's adjusted EBITDA performance for this quarter reflects the strategic fixed cost investments we've made in the past few quarters. It also illustrates the strong flow-through characteristics inherent in the business and this year's strong emphasis on having the most profitable mix of digital revenue products, as our Q3 Digital Audio Group margin expanded 420 basis points year-over-year and were 260 basis points better than the second quarter.

數位音訊集團本季調整後的 EBITDA 業績反映了我們在過去幾季進行的策略性固定成本投資。它還說明了該業務固有的強大流通特徵，以及今年對擁有最有利可圖的數位收入產品組合的高度重視，因為我們第三季度數位音訊集團的利潤率同比擴大了420 個基點，為260 個基點比第二季好。

Turning to the revenue streams within the Digital Audio Group. Our podcast revenues continued to perform well, growing 13% versus prior year, illustrating the fact that podcasting continues to be a strong growth engine for the company. Additionally, our podcasting EBITDA margins continued to be accretive to our total company EBITDA margins. Podcasting is the best performing segment of the advertising marketplace, and we continue to have the largest podcast audience reach in the U.S. In September, iHeart was once again ranked the #1 podcast publisher in the U.S. with more monthly downloads than the next 2 largest podcast publishers combined, according to Podtrac.

轉向數位音訊集團內的收入來源。我們的播客收入持續表現良好，比去年成長了 13%，這說明播客仍然是該公司強勁的成長引擎。此外，我們的播客 EBITDA 利潤率持續增加我們公司的 EBITDA 總利潤率。播客是廣告市場中表現最好的部分，我們繼續擁有美國最大的播客受眾群體。9 月份，iHeart 再次被評為美國排名第一的播客發行商，每月下載量超過了排名第二的兩個播客根據 Podtrac 的說法，出版商合併了。

As a reminder, the 3 segments of the podcasting ecosystem are publishers, distributors and sales reps. Publishers control the content, and as a result, enjoy the majority of the economics, compared to the distributors who have virtually no economic benefit and the sales reps who operate on razor-thin gross margins and are often unprofitable. From the beginning, our strategy is focused on the publishing sector of the industry, and the financial results of our business are evidence of the success of that strategy.

提醒一下，播客生態系統的三個部分是出版商、經銷商和銷售代表。出版商控制內容，因此，與幾乎沒有經濟利益的經銷商和毛利率微薄且常常無利可圖的銷售代表相比，他們享有大部分經濟利益。從一開始，我們的策略就專注於該行業的出版領域，我們業務的財務表現證明了該策略的成功。

Our leadership position in podcasting is in part the result of the power of our broadcast radio assets, which we have used to build new lines of business for the company, starting out with the iHeartRadio app over 10 years ago, our marquee live events business, and most recently with podcasting. Our broadcast radio assets uniquely reach 90% of Americans every month which, for context, is twice the consumer reach of the largest TV network and 3x the consumer reach of the largest digital-only streaming audio service, which is why broadcast radio is such a powerful tool for us in building new businesses.

我們在播客領域的領導地位部分歸功於我們的廣播電台資產的力量，我們利用這些資產為公司建立了新的業務線，從 10 多年前的 iHeartRadio 應用程序開始，我們的大型現場活動業務，最近是podcast.我們的廣播廣播資產每月覆蓋90% 的美國人，這是最大電視網絡消費者覆蓋範圍的兩倍，是最大純數位串流音訊服務消費者覆蓋範圍的3 倍，這就是廣播廣播如此受歡迎的原因我們建立新業務的強大工具。

The intersection of AI and podcasting is also an area which we have been focusing on as an important driver of future growth. And I'll give you 3 examples of how we're taking advantage of this evolving technology.

人工智慧和播客的交叉也是我們一直關注的領域，作為未來成長的重要驅動力。我將向您提供 3 個範例，說明我們如何利用這項不斷發展的技術。

First, strategically, we can use AI to finally cost-effectively translate our unparalleled English language podcast library into other languages, which creates the potential for global expansion and is another vector of earnings growth for the company.

首先，從策略上講，我們可以利用人工智慧最終以經濟高效的方式將我們無與倫比的英語播客庫翻譯成其他語言，這創造了全球擴張的潛力，也是公司獲利成長的另一個向量。

Second, on a more tactical level, we're giving our sellers, who make up the largest sales force in audio, AI-enhanced tools to help them prospect and communicate with clients about podcasting along with radio and streaming products, too.

其次，在更具戰術性的層面上，我們為構成音訊領域最大銷售團隊的賣家提供人工智慧增強工具，幫助他們就播客以及廣播和串流媒體產品尋找客戶並與客戶進行溝通。

And third, we're utilizing AI to enhance our dynamic podcast ad insertion capabilities, helping us to serve the right message and the right voice for the targeted demo, time and territory in ways not previously possible with older technologies.

第三，我們正在利用人工智慧來增強我們的動態播客廣告插入能力，幫助我們以舊技術無法實現的方式，為目標演示、時間和地區提供正確的資訊和正確的聲音。

In addition to our industry-leading podcast business, we also have the #1 streaming digital radio service, which is 5x larger than our closest competitor. We have the largest social footprint of any audio service by a factor of 7. And we operate 3,000 national and local websites that reach almost 120 million people in the United States each month. All of which represent additional opportunities for our advertising partners to interact with our highly engaged consumer base and provide additional revenue growth for the company.

除了業界領先的播客業務外，我們還擁有排名第一的串流數位廣播服務，規模比我們最接近的競爭對手大 5 倍。我們的社交足跡是所有音訊服務中最大的 7 倍。我們經營 3,000 個國家和地方網站，每月覆蓋美國近 1.2 億人。所有這些都為我們的廣告合作夥伴提供了與我們高度參與的消費者群互動的額外機會，並為公司帶來了額外的收入成長。

Turning now to the Multiplatform Group, which includes our broadcast radio networks and events business. In the third quarter, revenues were $626 million, down 5.1% versus prior year and down 3.2% excluding the impact of political. Adjusted EBITDA was $162 million, down 21.6% versus prior year. The Multiplatform Group's third quarter adjusted EBITDA margins were 25.9%, and Rich will take you through the puts and takes of the Multiplatform Group's margins this quarter.

現在轉向多平台集團，其中包括我們的廣播廣播網路和活動業務。第三季營收為 6.26 億美元，較上年同期下降 5.1%，剔除政治影響則下降 3.2%。調整後 EBITDA 為 1.62 億美元，較上年下降 21.6%。 Multiplatform Group 第三季調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 25.9%，Rich 將帶您了解 Multiplatform Group 本季利潤率的看漲和看跌。

The Multiplatform Group does continue to be impacted by some of the advertising uncertainty you've been hearing about. However, we've seen gradual improvement from quarter-to-quarter throughout the year, and we remain confident that the Multiplatform Group will be an additional growth engine for the company in the advertising marketplace recovery.

多平台集團確實繼續受到您所聽到的一些廣告不確定性的影響。然而，我們看到全年逐季逐步改善，我們仍然相信多平台集團將成為公司廣告市場復甦的額外成長引擎。

We continue to see substantial upside in our broadcast radio assets, in large part because of our unique and unparalleled reach and scale, including our participation in the migration to data and analytics infused planning, buying and selling of media.

我們繼續看到廣播電台資產的巨大增長，這在很大程度上是因為我們獨特且無與倫比的影響力和規模，包括我們參與向數據和分析注入的媒體規劃、購買和銷售的遷移。

Additionally, as ad-supported TV has suffered from their loss of audience, our broadcast radio assets, with 90% monthly consumer reach in America, is the only platform, along with Google and Meta, that can provide true mass market reach for advertisers. So what does that mean for the bottom line? Today, over 30% of consumer media consumption in a day is audio, yet it is only 9% of total advertising spend. And we expect that gap to close and to directly benefit our Multiplatform Group.

此外，由於廣告支援的電視觀眾流失，我們的廣播電台資產在美國每月覆蓋 90% 的消費者，是唯一可以與 Google 和 Meta 一起為廣告商提供真正的大眾市場覆蓋的平台。那麼這對底線意味著什麼呢？如今，消費者一天中超過 30% 的媒體消費是音頻，但僅佔廣告支出總額的 9%。我們預計這一差距將會縮小，並讓我們的多平台集團直接受益。

As we talked about on previous calls, we expected Q4 to be the strongest quarter of the year for the company. Although it is still on track for that, it will be weaker than we originally anticipated due to some dampening of advertising demand, which coincided with the uncertainty caused by the recent geopolitical events. Having said that, in some years, we do see significant last-minute advertising spend come in late November and December. Indeed, it has in the last 2 years. However, since we can't predict it, it's not included in our guidance.

正如我們在之前的電話會議中談到的那樣，我們預計第四季將是該公司今年最強勁的季度。儘管仍處於正軌，但由於廣告需求受到一定程度的抑制，加上最近的地緣政治事件造成的不確定性，它將弱於我們最初的預期。話雖如此，在某些年份，我們確實會在 11 月底和 12 月看到大量最後一刻的廣告支出。事實上，過去兩年確實如此。但是，由於我們無法預測它，因此它不包含在我們的指南中。

As we look ahead, we remain confident that both the advertising marketplace and our company will be back in growth mode in 2024. And now I'll turn it over to Rich.

展望未來，我們仍然相信廣告市場和我們公司將在 2024 年恢復成長模式。現在我將把它交給 Rich。

Thanks, Bob. As I take you through our results, as Bob mentioned, our third quarter 2023 results were at the high end of our previously provided adjusted EBITDA and revenue guidance ranges.

謝謝，鮑伯。正如鮑伯所提到的，正如我向您介紹我們的業績一樣，我們 2023 年第三季的業績處於我們先前提供的調整後 EBITDA 和收入指導範圍的高端。

Our Q3 2023 consolidated revenues were down 3.6% year-over-year, a little better than the guidance we provided down mid-single digits. Excluding the impact of political, our consolidated revenues were down 1%.

我們 2023 年第三季的合併收入年減 3.6%，略優於我們提供的中個位數下降的指導。排除政治因素的影響，我們的綜合收入下降了 1%。

Our consolidated direct operating expenses increased 2.2% for the quarter. This increase was driven primarily by higher variable content costs resulting from an increase in digital revenue, including third-party digital costs and profit sharing costs, as well as an adjustment from previous years relating to certain music licensing fees. This increase was partially offset by a lower compensation expense as a result of our ongoing cost savings initiatives.

本季我們的綜合直接營運費用成長了 2.2%。這一增長主要是由於數位收入增加導致可變內容成本上升，包括第三方數位成本和利潤分享成本，以及與前幾年相關的某些音樂授權費用的調整。這一增長被我們持續的成本節約措施帶來的較低的補償費用所部分抵消。

Our consolidated SG&A expenses decreased 1.6% for the quarter, primarily driven by lower sales commissions as well as the continued impact of our ongoing cost savings initiatives, partially offset by higher bad debt expense, an increase in trade and border marketing expenses associated with our events business, and higher variable compensation expense. As a reminder, as you make the comparison to last year, in 2022 we paid minimal bonuses to our employees.

本季我們的綜合SG&A 費用下降了1.6%，主要是由於銷售佣金下降以及我們持續的成本節約計劃的持續影響，但壞帳費用增加、與我們的活動相關的貿易和邊境行銷費用增加部分抵消了這一影響。業務，以及更高的變動薪酬費用。提醒一下，當您與去年進行比較時，2022 年我們向員工支付了最低限度的獎金。

We generated third quarter GAAP operating income of $69 million, compared to an operating loss of $211 million in the prior-year quarter. Our third quarter adjusted EBITDA was $204 million, compared to $252 million in the prior-year quarter, and at the high end of the guidance range we provided of $195 million to $205 million.

我們第三季的 GAAP 營業收入為 6,900 萬美元，而去年同期的營業虧損為 2.11 億美元。我們第三季調整後的 EBITDA 為 2.04 億美元，而去年同期為 2.52 億美元，我們提供的指導範圍的上限為 1.95 億美元至 2.05 億美元。

Turning now to the performance of our operating segments. And as a reminder, there are slides in the earnings presentation on our segment performances. In the third quarter, the Digital Audio Group's revenues were $267 million, up 5.2% year-over-year, and they comprised approximately 28% of our third quarter consolidated revenues. The Digital Audio Group's adjusted EBITDA was $94 million, up 19.6% year-over-year, and our Q3 margins were 35%, a year-over-year increase of 420 basis points.

現在談談我們營運部門的表現。提醒一下，收益簡報中有關於我們部門績效的幻燈片。第三季度，數位音訊集團的營收為 2.67 億美元，年增 5.2%，約佔第三季合併收入的 28%。數位音訊集團調整後的 EBITDA 為 9,400 萬美元，較去年同期成長 19.6%，第三季利潤率為 35%，較去年同期成長 420 個基點。

Within the Digital Audio Group are our podcasting revenues, which grew 12.5% year-over-year, and our non-podcasting digital revenues which grew 1.1% year-over-year. As anticipated, in the third quarter, we continued to see improvements in the Digital Audio Group's EBITDA flow-through and EBITDA margins. In the long-term, we continue to believe that Digital Audio Group should be a 35% adjusted EBITDA margin business on an annualized basis.

數位音訊集團的播客收入較去年同期成長 12.5%，非播客數位營收年增 1.1%。正如預期的那樣，第三季度，我們繼續看到數位音訊集團的 EBITDA 流通量和 EBITDA 利潤率有所改善。從長遠來看，我們仍然認為數位音訊集團的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率以年化計算應為 35%。

The Multiplatform Group's revenues were $626 million, down 5.1% year-over-year, or down 3.2%, excluding the impact of political. Adjusted EBITDA was $162 million, down 21.6% year-over-year. The Multiplatform Group's adjusted EBITDA margins were 25.9%.

Multiplatform Group 的營收為 6.26 億美元，較去年同期下降 5.1%，剔除政治影響則下降 3.2%。調整後 EBITDA 為 1.62 億美元，年減 21.6%。 Multiplatform Group 調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 25.9%。

The Multiplatform Group's third quarter margins were impacted by a couple of items. First, we recognized higher-than-normal bad debt expense. Second, in the third quarter this year, our flagship iHeartRadio Music Festival saw a year-over-year increase in trade and event revenues which drove increased promotion expense and which have lower margins than our broadcaster networks revenues. And third, we had one more major event this quarter than we had in the third quarter of 2022, which drove incremental expense.

Multiplatform Group 第三季的利潤受到幾個因素的影響。首先，我們確認壞帳費用高於正常水準。其次，今年第三季度，我們的旗艦 iHeartRadio 音樂節的貿易和活動收入同比增長，這推動了促銷費用的增加，但其利潤率低於我們的廣播網絡收入。第三，本季我們比 2022 年第三季多了一件重大事件，這增加了支出。

The Audio & Media Services Group's revenues were $62 million, down approximately 20% year-over-year. And adjusted EBITDA was $17 million, down $30 million in the prior year. Excluding the impact of political in the prior year quarter, the Audio & Media Services Group's revenues were down 7.4%.

音訊和媒體服務集團的收入為 6,200 萬美元，年減約 20%。調整後的 EBITDA 為 1700 萬美元，比上年減少 3000 萬美元。排除上一季政治因素的影響，音訊和媒體服務集團的收入下降了 7.4%。

At quarter-end, we had approximately $5 billion of net debt outstanding and our total liquidity was $625 million, which includes a cash balance of $213 million. Our quarter ending net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio was 6.2x. We remain committed to our long-term goal of a net debt-to-adjusted EBITDA ratio of approximately 4x.

截至季末，我們的未償淨債務約為 50 億美元，流動資金總額為 6.25 億美元，其中現金餘額為 2.13 億美元。我們季度末淨負債與調整後 EBITDA 的比率為 6.2 倍。我們仍致力於實現淨債務與調整後 EBITDA 比率約為 4 倍的長期目標。

As highlighted on past calls, we have no material maintenance covenants and no debt maturities until mid-2026. We will continue to be opportunistic in responding to debt market developments. In Q3, we repurchased $89 million of the principal balance of our 8.38% senior unsecured notes at a meaningful discount to par value, generating both earnings and free cash flow accretion. This brings our total repurchase of these notes to $519 million, reducing the outstanding amount from $1.45 billion to approximately $930 million and results in aggregate annualized interest savings of approximately $43 million.

正如過去的電話會議所強調的那樣，我們在 2026 年中期之前沒有實質的維護契約，也沒有債務到期。我們將繼續抓住機會應對債務市場的發展。在第三季度，我們以相對票面價值大幅折扣的價格回購了 8,900 萬美元的 8.38% 優先無擔保票據本金餘額，從而產生了收益和自由現金流增長。這使得我們回購這些票據的總額達到 5.19 億美元，將未償還金額從 14.5 億美元減少到約 9.3 億美元，年化利息節省總額約為 4,300 萬美元。

In the third quarter, we generated $68 million of free cash flow, and we also generated an additional $45 million of cash from the sale of our remaining radio broadcast towers, which we will use to pay down debt.

第三季度，我們產生了 6,800 萬美元的自由現金流，此外，我們還透過出售剩餘的無線電廣播塔額外獲得了 4,500 萬美元的現金，我們將用這些現金來償還債務。

Turning now to our outlook for Q4. As Bob mentioned before, as some other companies have discussed on their earnings calls, we are experiencing some additional uncertainty due to the recent geopolitical events, and that is captured in our Q4 revenue outlook.

現在轉向我們對第四季的展望。正如鮑勃之前提到的，正如其他一些公司在財報電話會議上討論的那樣，由於最近的地緣政治事件，我們正在經歷一些額外的不確定性，這在我們第四季度的收入前景中得到了體現。

So with that in mind, we expect our Q4 2023 revenues to be down high single digits. As a reminder, Q4 of last year was the biggest quarter in the company's history and was the largest political quarter of the year with $66 million of political revenue. Excluding the impact of political, we expect our Q4 revenues to be on low single digits. Revenue for the month of October was down approximately 8%.

因此，考慮到這一點，我們預計 2023 年第四季的營收將下降高個位數。提醒一下，去年第四季是該公司史上最大的季度，也是當年最大的政治收入季度，政治收入為 6,600 萬美元。排除政治因素的影響，我們預期第四季的營收將處於較低的個位數。 10 月的收入下降了約 8%。

Turning to the individual segments. We expect the Multiplatform Group's revenue to be down high single digits. Excluding the impact of political, we expect Multiplatform Group revenues to be down mid-single digits. We expect the Digital Audio Group's revenues to be up high single digits. And we expect the Audio & Media Services Group's revenues to be down approximately 30% or down low single digits, excluding the impact of political. As a reminder, the Audio & Media Services Group includes Katz TV, which experiences a significant swing between its performance in political and nonpolitical years.

轉向各個細分市場。我們預計多平台集團的收入將下降高個位數。排除政治因素的影響，我們預計 Multiplatform Group 的收入將下降中個位數。我們預計數位音訊集團的收入將成長高個位數。我們預計音頻和媒體服務集團的收入將下降約 30% 或低個位數，不包括政治影響。需要提醒的是，音訊和媒體服務集團包括 Katz TV，該公司在政治年份和非政治年份的表現有顯著波動。

Turning to adjusted EBITDA for Q4 2023, we expect to generate consolidated adjusted EBITDA in the range of $205 million to $215 million. And as Bob mentioned, any potential last-minute advertising spend in late November and December is not included in this guidance.

談到 2023 年第四季的調整後 EBITDA，我們預計綜合調整後 EBITDA 將在 2.05 億美元至 2.15 億美元之間。正如 Bob 所提到的，11 月底和 12 月任何潛在的最後一刻廣告支出都不包含在本指南中。

From an expense perspective, in Q4, we expect to incur a bonus expense differential compared to prior year. And we also expect to recognize additional marketing expenses associated with the expansion of our events business in the quarter, including our Jingle Ball Holiday TV special moving to ABC and the streaming of our iHeartRadio Music Festival moving to Hulu.

從費用角度來看，我們預計第四季度的獎金費用與去年相比會出現差異。我們也預計將在本季度確認與活動業務擴展相關的額外行銷費用，包括將我們的 Jingle Ball 假日電視特別節目轉移到 ABC 以及將 iHeartRadio 音樂節的串流媒體轉移到 Hulu。

I want to comment on the following items affecting free cash flow. We continue to expect our cash taxes to be approximately $15 million in 2023. Our estimate of full year 2023 capital expenditures is expected to be approximately $100 million. As a reminder, this is substantially below our 2022 capital expenditures of $161 million.

我想對以下影響自由現金流的事項發表評論。我們仍然預計 2023 年的現金稅約為 1500 萬美元。我們預計 2023 年全年資本支出約為 1 億美元。提醒一下，這遠低於我們 2022 年 1.61 億美元的資本支出。

Cash restructuring expenses will remain down year-over-year. We continue to be impacted by the current interest rate environment as approximately 40% of our debt is floating, but we are committed to opportunistically improving our capital structure and reducing our interest expense as the market allows.

現金重組費用將較去年同期維持下降。我們繼續受到當前利率環境的影響，因為我們約 40% 的債務是浮動的，但我們致力於機會主義地改善我們的資本結構，並在市場允許的情況下減少利息支出。

We generated solid free cash flow in the third quarter and we expect our performance to improve in the fourth quarter, which is always our largest free cash flow generating quarter of the year. And as we look forward to 2024, we expect to generate significantly better free cash flow, driven in part by an improving macro environment as well as the impact of political dollars, which are collected upfront.

我們在第三季產生了穩定的自由現金流，我們預計第四季度的業績將有所改善，這始終是我們一年中最大的自由現金流產生季度。展望 2024 年，我們預計將產生明顯更好的自由現金流，部分原因是宏觀環境改善以及預先收集的政治資金的影響。

In addition to our reported free cash flows, we also generated $45 million of cash from the sale of radio broadcast towers, which we'll use to pay down debt.

除了我們報告的自由現金流之外，我們還透過出售無線電廣播塔獲得了 4500 萬美元的現金，我們將用這些現金來償還債務。

As Bob mentioned, we expect 2024 to be back in growth mode. As a reminder, 2024 is a political year. And during the last presidential political year in 2020, we generated $167 million of political revenues.

正如鮑伯所提到的，我們預計 2024 年將恢復成長模式。提醒一下，2024 年是政治年。在 2020 年最後一個總統政治年，我們創造了 1.67 億美元的政治收入。

And finally, on behalf of the entire senior management team, Bob and I want to thank our team members who work to deliver for their communities and for iHeart every day.

最後，我和鮑伯代表整個高階管理團隊感謝我們的團隊成員，他們每天致力於為社群和 iHeart 做出貢獻。

Now we will turn it over to the operator to take your questions. Thank you.

現在我們將把它交給接線員回答您的問題。謝謝。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) We'll take our first question from Steven Cahall at Wells Fargo.

謝謝。 （操作員說明）我們將回答富國銀行史蒂文·卡霍爾 (Steven Cahall) 提出的第一個問題。

So first, just on what you're seeing in the ad market. So Bob, you said you expect -- you're confident, I think, in a return to growth in 2024, and I'm guessing that comment is not just political, that there's some ex political confidence in there, too. And Rich, you said you expect significantly better free cash flow next year, driven in part by an improving macro. We've seen a few media companies now kind of back off trying to call for an improving macro, unless it's something they're really seeing in their trends.

首先，談談你在廣告市場上看到的情況。所以鮑勃，你說你預計——我認為你對 2024 年恢復成長充滿信心，我猜這個評論不僅僅是政治性的，其中也有一些前政治信心。 Rich，您說您預計明年的自由現金流將顯著改善，部分原因是宏觀經濟改善。我們已經看到一些媒體公司現在有點放棄呼籲改善宏觀經濟，除非他們確實在趨勢中看到了這一點。

So I was hoping you could just give us a little more on your thought process here. Are you starting to see some green shoots or inflections? It sounds like some of the geopolitical stuff maybe it could be a little bit of a near-term headwind. So just help us think about what's driving that confidence in the improvement in 2024.

所以我希望你能給我們更多關於你的思考過程的資訊。您是否開始看到一些萌芽或變化？聽起來像是一些地緣政治因素，也許短期內可能會遇到一些阻力。因此，請幫助我們思考是什麼推動了人們對 2024 年改善的信心。

And then, Rich, I don't think you all have any covenants, and I know you're retiring debt at a hefty discount. You do have a pretty big maturity wall in 2026. Quite a few broadcast companies actually have a lot of debt coming due in 2026. So we're curious, when you start those conversations, what you think the tone of those will be?

然後，里奇，我認為你們都沒​​有任何契約，而且我知道你們正在以大幅折扣償還債務。 2026 年確實有一個相當大的到期牆。相當多的廣播公司實際上有很多債務將在2026 年到期。所以我們很好奇，當你開始這些對話時，你認為這些對話的基調會是什麼？

And then finally, just a housekeeping one. Anything to read into the bad debt expense picking up?

最後，只是一個家事服務。關於壞帳費用上升有什麼值得解讀的事嗎？

Great. Well, let me start with the ad marketplace. I think there are 2 ways to look at it. One is subjective, one's objective. Let me start with the objective.

偉大的。好吧，讓我從廣告市場開始。我認為有兩種看待它的方法。一個是主觀的，一個是客觀的。讓我從目標開始。

I think in recovery, you generally see digital recover first. I think if you look at not only our digital but look at the marketplace, you've seen the big guys go from negative to positive and pretty steady growth. So I would sort of say digital is sort of already in recovered mode or recovering mode.

我認為在恢復中，您通常首先會看到數字恢復。我認為，如果你不僅關注我們的數位領域，而且關注市場，你會看到大公司從負成長到正成長，並且成長相當穩定。所以我想說數字已經處於恢復模式或正在恢復模式。

I think behind that, historically, you see sort of TV recovers next and radio next. I think with the TV, and you asked the question about what others are saying, I think with the rather dramatic decline in TV audience and sort of the accompanying advertising impact, there's an opportunity perhaps for radio to move ahead of TV in terms of that queue. And so from an objective standpoint, we're seeing the pieces falling in place. So that gives us confidence.

我認為，從歷史上看，在這背後，你會看到電視接下來恢復，廣播又恢復。我認為對於電視，你問了其他人在說什麼的問題，我認為隨著電視觀眾的急劇下降以及隨之而來的廣告影響，廣播也許有機會在這方面領先於電視隊列。因此，從客觀的角度來看，我們看到各個部分都已就位。這給了我們信心。

On the subjective part, we're talking to advertisers and looking at sort of their plans for next year and having those discussions. And the general sense we get is, for most of them, is that they're looking at '24 being back into growth mode for them and spending to support that. So I think we are, again, the beneficiary of that.

在主觀方面，我們正在與廣告商交談，了解他們明年的計劃並進行這些討論。我們得到的普遍感覺是，對於他們中的大多數人來說，他們正在考慮在 24 世紀重新進入成長模式，並投入資金來支持這種模式。所以我認為我們再次成為受益者。

So both the objective and the subjective line up for us in terms of giving us confidence for '24.

因此，客觀和主觀都讓我們對「24」充滿信心。

Steve, it's Rich. So maybe just a couple of things. The only thing I might add on to what Bob said, I think is further proof point, you saw we were up about 5% in Q3 on digital revenue. And just marry to Bob's comment about that being one of the first ones in terms of coming back and kind of leading the confidence in revenue.

史蒂夫，我是里奇。所以也許只有幾件事。我唯一可以補充鮑伯所說的話，我認為這是進一步的證據，你看到我們在第三季的數位收入成長了約 5%。與鮑勃的評論相結合，他說這是第一批回歸的人之一，並在某種程度上引領了人們對收入的信心。

If you look at our guidance in Q4 for digital, it's high single digits overall on digital revenue. So again, I think that's not just the words, but data. And also, if you look at what we did, we did 13% growth in podcasting -- approximately 13% growth from podcasting in Q3. We didn't give exact guidance for Q4, but clearly, we think we're going to be above the growth rate we had in Q3. We'll have higher growth rate in Q4. So just to put that in context.

如果您查看我們第四季度的數位業務指引，您會發現數位收入總體上處於高個位數。再說一次，我認為這不僅僅是文字，而是數據。而且，如果你看看我們所做的事情，我們的播客成長了 13%——第三季播客成長了約 13%。我們沒有給出第四季度的確切指導，但顯然，我們認為我們的成長率將高於第三季。第四季我們將有更高的成長率。所以只是將其放在上下文中。

In terms of your questions, maybe I'll take them in reverse order for a second. In terms of bad debt expense -- excuse me, bad debt expense, nothing unusual in bad debts. We just -- it's limited to just a couple of advertisers, without going into names or categories. But no, there's nothing at all to worry about on that front.

至於你的問題，也許我會以相反的順序回答。就壞帳費用而言——對不起，壞帳費用，壞帳沒有什麼不尋常的。我們只是——僅限於幾個廣告商，沒有詳細說明名稱或類別。但不，在這方面根本沒有什麼好擔心的。

And in terms of the debt, you just -- you confirmed that we've got no significant covenants. And I think we've done a nice job, we're down to approximately 900 -- a little over 900 on the [8.38%]. And I'm not going to say anything that I haven't said publicly already, just that we continue to monitor the credit markets. We obviously understand when our maturities are out there.

就債務而言，您剛剛確認我們沒有任何重大契約。我認為我們做得很好，我們已經減少到大約 900 人——略高於 900 人 [8.38%]。我不會說任何我還沒有公開說過的話，只是我們會繼續監控信貸市場。我們顯然知道我們何時成熟。

I think from our standpoint, we just need to continue to execute on the operating plan. We need to continue to generate free cash flow. We need to continue to look at potential opportunities to monetize things, like we did with the towers, this quarter, which we're going to use to pay down debt also as part of that.

我認為從我們的角度來看，我們只需要繼續執行營運計劃。我們需要繼續產生自由現金流。我們需要繼續尋找潛在的貨幣化機會，就像我們本季對塔樓所做的那樣，我們也將用它來償還債務，作為其中的一部分。

And I can't comment about other companies. But again, if you look at the operating performance of this company, we just -- we feel confident about the refinancing and doing new ways that continues to maximize our capital structure.

我無法評論其他公司。但同樣，如果你看看這家公司的營運業績，我們對再融資和採取新的方式繼續最大化我們的資本結構充滿信心。

We'll move next to Jim Goss at Barrington Research.

我們將轉到巴林頓研究中心的吉姆·戈斯旁。

All right. A couple of questions. One, looking at podcasting, it's still achieving growth. But I wonder if you could position it in its business cycle. Maybe discuss if you think the trajectory is slowing a little, that it might be maturing somewhat? Or is it -- is this just a function of like current type events that might be posing a bit of a drag on the very strong growth you obviously get in the earlier stages of the development?

好的。有幾個問題。第一，看看播客，它仍在成長。但我想知道你是否可以將其定位在其商業週期中。如果您認為發展軌跡正在放緩，也許會討論它可能會在某種程度上成熟？或者，這只是當前類型事件的函數，可能會對您在開發早期階段明顯獲得的非常強勁的成長造成一些拖累？

Yes. We don't think we're anywhere near maturity on podcasting. And I think if you look at the audience growth in podcasting, it's not an audience growth in terms of more people coming into podcasting listening, but they're spending more time with podcasting as well. If you look at stats about how many downloads we have or how many shows get over 1 million downloads a month, that continues to grow. It's sort of every metric you look at is a very positive metric.

是的。我們認為我們的播客還遠遠沒有成熟。我認為，如果你看看播客的受眾成長，你會發現，這不是更多的人開始收聽播客，而是他們在播客上花了更多的時間。如果您查看有關我們的下載量或每月下載量超過 100 萬次的節目數量的統計數據，您會發現這一數字還在持續增長。您看到的每一個指標都是非常正面的指標。

And what's also encouraging is that it's a relatively young audience for podcasting. So you're not talking about the issues of talk radio, which tend to be older. This is the young audience version of talk.

同樣令人鼓舞的是，播客的受眾相對年輕。所以你不是在談論談話廣播的問題，這些問題往往比較古老。這是年輕觀眾版本的對話。

What's also great about podcasting for us in terms of our business is that about 2/3 of the use of podcasting is at home, whereas in radio, about 2/3 of our usage is out of home. So it's a nice marriage of the 2. And some people think about podcasting, if you think Netflix is sort of TV on-demand, podcasting is sort of radio on demand and we think it continues to move. And there are now more people using podcasting than use the biggest streaming music services, and continues to grow.

就我們的業務而言，播客對我們的另一個好處是，大約 2/3 的播客使用是在家裡，而在廣播中，大約 2/3 的使用是在戶外。所以這是兩者的完美結合。有些人會想到播客，如果你認為 Netflix 是一種電視點播，那麼播客就是一種廣播點播，我們認為它會繼續發展。現在使用播客的人數比使用最大的串流音樂服務的人數還要多，而且還在持續成長。

So we're very optimistic about it. I have seen -- and the only thing in the marketplace is you've seen some people pull back on basically uneconomic deals that they were doing. I think that's a positive for the marketplace because it means the economics match real economics. And I think that helps us in getting the deals done we need to, to continue to lead as the #1 podcast publisher.

所以我們對此非常樂觀。我見過——市場上唯一的事情是你看到一些人撤回了他們正在進行的基本上不經濟的交易。我認為這對市場來說是正面的，因為這意味著經濟符合實際經濟。我認為這有助於我們完成所需的交易，並繼續作為第一大播客發行商保持領先地位。

Jim, and the only thing I might just build upon what Bob said and just marry it back to Steve's question just a couple of minutes ago, remember, we're up approximately 13%, a little less than that, in revenue in Q3 in podcasting. And I think I just mentioned that we're -- we plan to be or forecasting to be higher than that in Q4 in terms of percentage. Remember, we're talking about an increase in percentage, we're also talking about we're getting to bigger numbers. So I'm not quite sure that there's any factual signs, at least from an iHeart standpoint, that we see anything podcasting slowing down whatsoever in terms of the growth.

吉姆，我唯一可以根據鮑勃所說的話，將其與史蒂夫幾分鐘前的問題結合起來，記住，我們第三季度的收入增長了約 13%，略低於這個數字。播客。我想我剛剛提到我們計劃或預測百分比會高於第四季度。請記住，我們正在談論百分比的增加，我們也在談論我們正在獲得更大的數字。所以我不太確定是否有任何事實跡象，至少從 iHeart 的角度來看，我們看到任何播客的成長都在放緩。

The second thing I would say is that, if you look at all the people that do projections in terms of revenue pies in North American advertising, if you go out 3, 4 years, and everybody's got kind of a little different years and slightly different numbers, but you can all go read them yourself, whether it's eMarketer or the other people out there, but everybody's got podcasting right going to $4 billion or $5 billion pie of advertising dollars over whatever period of time, some are $3 billion, some are $4 billion. Even though they're not exactly right, just looking down directionally.

我要說的第二件事是，如果你看看北美廣告中所有對收入餅圖進行預測的人，如果你出去 3、4 年，每個人的年份都略有不同，並且略有不同數字，但你們都可以自己去讀它們，無論是eMarketer 還是其他人，但每個人的播客都在任何時期內都會有40 億或50 億美元的廣告收入，有些是30 億美元，有些是40 億美元。儘管它們並不完全正確，但只是定向向下看。

And finally, I would just say that, just remember, the podcasting industry in terms of big advertisers, well, consumers listening habits, big advertisers coming to podcasting, which is so important because that's where big dollars come from, big advertisers, that is really only a couple of years, quite frankly, in the making. So when Bob talks about the early days and we see no signs of anything slowing down, look to listening what's out there with the consumers. I think it's something like 85% or some number close to that of people that start a podcast and listen to all the way through.

最後，我只想說，請記住，播客行業就大廣告商而言，嗯，消費者的收聽習慣，大廣告商來到播客，這非常重要，因為這就是大筆資金的來源，大廣告商，那就是坦白說，製作過程其實只花了幾年時間。因此，當鮑伯談論早期時，我們沒有看到任何放緩的跡象，請傾聽消費者的聲音。我認為這個比例大約是 85%，或接近開始播客並從頭到尾收聽的人的比例。

So I don't think any of us that have been running media companies for a long period of time have seen engagement at that level. And that's critical because that engagement is what's driving this dramatic growth in ad revenue.

因此，我認為我們這些長期經營媒體公司的人都沒有看過這種程度的參與度。這一點至關重要，因為這種參與度是推動廣告收入大幅成長的動力。

Okay. Very helpful. A couple of other things. Political, I know you talked about reach, but video seems to trump reach in terms of attracting critical ads. So local broadcast always gets the lion's share of that business. I wonder if you feel there's any risk to digital or other forms taking any of the political momentum you've tended to have, because it's not the biggest category, but it's an important category and a very profitable category for you.

好的。很有幫助。還有其他一些事情。政治方面，我知道您談到了影響力，但在吸引關鍵廣告方面，影片似乎勝過影響力。因此，本地廣播總是佔據該業務的最大份額。我想知道您是否認為數字或其他形式採取您傾向於擁有的任何政治動力存在任何風險，因為它不是最大的類別，但它是一個重要的類別，並且對您來說是一個非常有利可圖的類別。

Yes. No, to the contrary. I think video has always been there. And anybody wants to see their faces, always want video. I think -- so now the only variable now is reach. At a certain point, they got to say, if nobody is seeing it, they got to worry about getting their message out. And I think finally, people are really be getting to appreciate, I think, with the success of streaming audio and the success of podcasting, the impact of the conversation. And indeed, I think, probably the most products, and by the way, most candidates, probably it's not seeing their face, it's hearing the conversation about the candidate. And nothing does that better than broadcast radio.

是的。不，恰恰相反。我認為視頻一直存在。任何人都想看到他們的臉，總是想要影片。我認為——所以現在唯一的變數是達到。在某種程度上，他們必須說，如果沒有人看到它，他們就必須擔心如何傳達自己的訊息。我認為最後，隨著串流音訊的成功和播客的成功，人們真的開始欣賞對話的影響。事實上，我認為，可能是大多數產品，順便說一句，大多數候選人，可能不是看到他們的臉，而是聽到有關候選人的對話。沒有什麼比廣播電台更能做到這一點了。

So again, I think if you look at the history of sort of growth we've had in political advertising, in the 2020 cycle and 2022 cycle, I think we're encouraged that we're in good shape on political.

所以，我想，如果你看看我們在 2020 年周期和 2022 年周期中政治廣告的成長歷史，我認為我們在政治方面處於良好狀態，這讓我們感到鼓舞。

Jim, and just one thing. You mentioned, I think when you asked your question, you talked about video and digital and just -- and Bob, just to hone back on that.

吉姆，只有一件事。你提到，我想當你問問題時，你談到了視頻和數字，而鮑勃只是為了回顧這一點。

From a broadcast standpoint, remember, going into this election cycle, as well as we've done in past election cycles, our capabilities from a data standpoint, our ad tech capabilities that we've talked about with our ability, just at a very high level, to plan out advertising campaigns, to monitor advertising campaigns and report out on them, that goes, obviously not just from a digital standpoint, but we now have capabilities on broadcast that make broadcast look like digital, again, not one to one, which as we all know the world has gone away from, but one to many, and we've got capabilities going into this political season to get ad dollars that we didn't have in the last election cycle.

從廣播的角度來看，請記住，進入這個選舉週期，以及我們在過去的選舉週期中所做的那樣，從數據的角度來看，我們的能力，我們已經用我們的能力談論過的廣告技術能力，只是在非常高的水平上。高水平，規劃廣告活動，監控廣告活動並報告它們，這顯然不僅僅是從數字角度來看，但我們現在擁有廣播功能，使廣播看起來像數字化的，而不是一對一的眾所周知，世界已經遠離了一對多，而且我們有能力進入這個政治季節來獲得我們在上一個選舉週期中沒有的廣告資金。

So I wouldn't -- that's not a small detail to overlook.

所以我不會——這不是一個需要忽視的小細節。

Okay. One last one. I know you can't exactly create a concert movie like Taylor Swift Eras Tour, but you do have things that you put on ABC and Hulu, as you mentioned, the Jingle Ball. But are there events you're creating that could be monetized with sort of streaming relationships where it might be something that is successful on an ongoing basis with Netflix or something of that nature that could add to the monetization of those types of events.

好的。最後一張。我知道你無法製作一部像 Taylor Swift Eras Tour 這樣的音樂會電影，但你確實有一些可以放在 ABC 和 Hulu 上的東西，正如你提到的，《Jingle Ball》。但是，您正在創建的活動是否可以透過某種串流關係來貨幣化，其中可能是與 Netflix 持續取得成功的活動，或者可以增加此類活動貨幣化的類似性質的活動。

The answer is yes. And indeed, this year, we moved the iHeartRadio Music Festival to Hulu. And I think that's a perfect example of the success of that. And again, we do a lot of other major tentpole events, and we are wide open to that and really looking at where is the consumer and how do we reach them. And we always feel if you get the audience, monetization follows.

答案是肯定的。事實上，今年我們將 iHeartRadio 音樂節移至 Hulu。我認為這是成功的完美例子。再說一遍，我們舉辦了許多其他主要活動，我們對此持開放態度，並真正關註消費者在哪裡以及我們如何接觸他們。我們總是覺得，如果你吸引了觀眾，貨幣化就會跟著來。

We'll move to our next question from Dan Day at B. Riley Securities.

我們將轉向 B. Riley Securities 的 Dan Day 提出的下一個問題。

So just wanted to push on the EBITDA guidance a little bit more. I think the presumption coming into this year was that the cost savings efforts, the real estate reductions you guys have talked about would at least stabilize the margin profile even if we saw continued softness in the advertising market, it seems like you're implying a pretty big step down in margins here. 4Q kind of low 20s versus higher 20s in almost every 4Q you've reported. Just one of the things I hear from investors is that it seems like there's been a number of quarters where these items have mostly offset any fixed cost savings.

所以只是想進一步推動 EBITDA 指引。我認為今年的假設是，即使我們看到廣告市場持續疲軟，你們所談論的成本節約工作、房地產削減至少會穩定利潤狀況，似乎你們在暗示這裡的利潤率大幅下降。在您報告的幾乎每個第 4 季中，第 4 季的得分都在 20 左右，而在 20 左右。我從投資者那裡聽到的一件事是，似乎有幾個季度這些項目大部分抵消了固定成本節省。

So just any thoughts there when those might start to become more evident, then any pushback you might get to that?

那麼，當這些想法開始變得更加明顯時，你可能會遇到任何阻力嗎？

Well, look, I think they are, in all honesty, becoming evident. And one thing I want to just highlight, and then I'll spend 30 seconds in a little more detail is I wouldn't overlook Bob's comment, that he said, when we're discussing earnings, about -- this is -- it's obviously -- there's a lot of uncertainty out there on the environment. I think people have heard this on every earnings call with respect to advertising based companies, the different degrees, the ability to talk about guidance for Q4, whether you go into 2024, is challenging.

好吧，老實說，我認為它們正變得越來越明顯。我想強調的一件事是，我不會忽視鮑勃的評論，然後我將花 30 秒的時間，當我們討論收益時，他說，關於 - 這是 - 這是顯然，環境存在很多不確定性。我認為人們在每次關於廣告公司的財報電話會議上都聽到過這一點，無論是進入 2024 年，談論第四季度指導的能力都不同程度地具有挑戰性。

And I think Bob highlighted this is based on what we know today, but if you look at just historical what's happened, we've seen periods of time where we have had a lot of business placed at the end of Q3 -- I'm sorry, at the end of November and December.

我認為鮑勃強調的這一點是基於我們今天所知道的，但如果你看看歷史上發生的事情，我們已經看到在第三季度末我們有很多業務的時期 - 我是抱歉，十一月底和十二月。

When you look at this year, kind of in particular, just kind of contrast it just to last year. Remember, we're comping against last year, if you look at margins, both in the MPG level, and we highlighted this in our discussion at the Audio & Media Services level, a dramatic difference in what we had in political revenue year-over-year. I think last year we had $66 million in political revenue at MPG. We had 20 -- about mid-20s -- I'm sorry, about $60 million it should be in MPG, and mid-20s at Audio & Media Services, and that comes in extremely high margin, quite frankly, that political. It's our highest margin business. So that really, quite frankly, the biggest piece.

當你看今年時，有點特別，只是與去年進行對比。請記住，如果您查看 MPG 層面的利潤率，我們正在與去年進行比較，並且我們在音頻和媒體服務層面的討論中強調了這一點，我們在政治收入方面與去年相比存在巨大差異-年。我想去年我們 MPG 的政治收入是 6,600 萬美元。我們有 20 個——大約 20 多歲——抱歉，MPG 應該有大約 6000 萬美元，音頻和媒體服務有 20 多歲，坦率地說，這是政治性的，利潤率極高。這是我們利潤率最高的業務。坦白說，這確實是最大的一塊。

And then the balance going the other way is obviously the increase in DAG. We do have some nice cost savings in Q4. And as a reminder, we announced a $75 million program at the beginning of this year that we started layering in during Q2. And we've got a nice benefit in Q4. And we're lapping year-over-year, but I think we continue to look at cost. It's just a way of life.

那麼反過來的餘額顯然就是 DAG 的增加。我們在第四季確實節省了一些成本。提醒一下，我們在今年年初宣布了一項 7500 萬美元的計劃，我們在第二季開始分階段投入。我們在第四季獲得了不錯的收益。我們逐年進步，但我認為我們會繼續關注成本。這只是一種生活方式。

And I think also as we highlighted, 2 other things. One is we have bonuses back last year. We didn't pay bonuses to any significant amount across our employee base. And finally, the trade and marketing expenses that we touched upon with both the Hulu deal now streaming the iHeart Music Festival, and our deal with ABC. And so those are -- excuse me -- not comparable year-over-year. And those hit -- even though the music festivals in Q3, those hit in Q4. So that's really the items that are affecting comparability.

我認為正如我們所強調的那樣，還有另外兩件事。一是我們去年有獎金。我們沒有向我們的員工群體支付任何大額獎金。最後，我們談到了現在在 iHeart 音樂節上播放的 Hulu 交易以及我們與 ABC 的交易中涉及的貿易和行銷費用。因此，請原諒，這些數據無法與去年同期相比。這些音樂節在第三季度很受歡迎，但在第四季很受歡迎。所以這確實是影響可比較性的因素。

Okay. Great. One more for me. higher-level question on podcasting. It feels like we've hit a tipping point where, within podcasts, like a majority of them, the most popular ones, seem to have some sort of video component to them, typically like hosted on YouTube or some other platform in addition to that like more traditional audio-only format. So just wondering how you've played in that, whether that's impacting discussions with talent, and your thoughts on the sort of hybrid audio/video approach that podcasting seems to be moving towards.

好的。偉大的。再給我一份。關於播客的更高級別問題。感覺我們已經達到了一個轉折點，在播客中，像大多數最受歡迎的播客一樣，似乎都有某種視頻組件，通常是在 YouTube 或除此之外的其他平台上託管像更傳統的純音頻格式。所以只是想知道你在這方面的表現如何，這是否會影響與人才的討論，以及你對播客似乎正在走向的混合音頻/視頻方法的看法。

Yes. I actually disagree. I don't think it is moving to that. I think you have some shows that are hybrids, but I don't think that is an overall trend at all in the podcasting business. As a matter of fact, I think most people have been surprised by how little interest there is in seeing what they're hearing. I think people who've come out of the video business, think everybody wants to see it, and the reality is, no, they don't. They're cooking. They're driving, they're doing something else, and it doesn't fit in well there.

是的。我其實不同意。我不認為事情會朝著那個方向發展。我認為有些節目是混合型的，但我認為這根本不是播客行業的整體趨勢。事實上，我認為大多數人都對他們對看到自己所聽到的內容沒有興趣感到驚訝。我認為從視頻行業出來的人認為每個人都想看到它，但現實是，不，他們不想。他們正在做飯。他們一邊開車，一邊做其他事情，但這些都不太適合。

And I think, look, everybody who's in the video business would love to capture podcasting. They are all trying desperately to do it. And we have some shows that are on both. And if it's the best way to do it, we certainly can do it. The video today is not much more expense to add to it. We're just looking for the best way to make money.

我認為，視訊行業的每個人都喜歡捕捉播客。他們都在拼命地想要做到這一點。我們有一些節目同時在兩者上播出。如果這是最好的方法，我們當然可以做到。今天的影片並沒有增加多少費用。我們只是在尋找最好的賺錢方式。

Yes. And one last thing I may just add to that. Look, if you look at what our revenue growth is both through the 9 months and then what I just talked about Q4, also just remind, yes, we've said podcasting is accretive to the overall company's EBITDA margin out there. So if you look at what Bob just articulated, that is our overall part of our podcasting strategy.

是的。我還想補充最後一件事。聽著，如果你看看我們過去 9 個月的收入成長情況以及我剛才談到的第四季度的情況，也請提醒一下，是的，我們說過播客可以增加整個公司的 EBITDA 利潤率。因此，如果你看看鮑伯剛剛闡述的內容，那就是我們播客策略的整體部分。

I think it's hard to argue that we've -- that we're not on the right strategy, that we've enjoyed pretty good success in the podcasting both on revenue and also, most importantly, driving it to the bottom line for the benefit of our shareholders, and profitability.

我認為很難說我們沒有採取正確的策略，我們在播客方面取得了相當大的成功，無論是在收入方面，還是最重要的是，將其推向了底線股東的利益和盈利能力。

So with that, we'd like to thank everybody for listening to the iHeart story, Bob, myself and the rest of the management team, we are available for questions and follow-up, and appreciate everybody's time and support.

因此，我們要感謝大家聆聽 iHeart 的故事，鮑勃、我本人以及管理團隊的其他成員，我們隨時準備回答問題並進行後續跟進，並感謝大家的時間和支持。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。