Intercorp Financial Services Inc (IFS) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to Intercorp Financial Services Fourth Quarter 2022 Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

早上好，歡迎來到 Intercorp 金融服務公司 2022 年第四季度電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。 （操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Rafael Borja of InspIR Group. Sir, you may begin.

現在我很高興將電話轉給 InspIR Group 的 Rafael Borja。先生，您可以開始了。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. On today's call Intercorp Financial Services will discuss its fourth quarter 2022 earnings. We're very pleased to have with us Mr. Luis Felipe Castellanos, Chief Executive Officer of Intercorp Financial Services; Mrs. Michela Casassa, Chief Financial Officer of Intercorp Financial Services; Mr. Gonzalo Basadre, Chief Executive Officer of Interseguro; Mr. Bruno Ferreccio, Chief Executive Officer of Inteligo; and Mr. Carlos Tori, Executive Vice President of Payments at Intercorp Financial Services. They will be discussing the results that were distributed by the company on Monday, February 13. There is also a webcast video presentations to accompany discussion during this call.

謝謝大家，早上好。在今天的電話會議上，Intercorp Financial Services 將討論其 2022 年第四季度的收益。我們很高興邀請到 Intercorp Financial Services 首席執行官 Luis Felipe Castellanos 先生； Intercorp Financial Services 首席財務官 Michela Casassa 夫人； Interseguro 首席執行官 Gonzalo Basadre 先生； Inteligo 首席執行官 Bruno Ferreccio 先生； Intercorp Financial Services 支付執行副總裁 Carlos Tori 先生。他們將討論公司於 2 月 13 日星期一分發的結果。在本次電話會議期間，還有一個網絡廣播視頻演示來伴隨討論。

If you didn't receive a copy of the presentation or the earnings report, they are now available on the company's website, ifs.com.pe, to download a copy. Otherwise for any reason if you need any assistance today, please call InspIR Group in New York at (212) 710-9686.

如果您沒有收到演示文稿或收益報告的副本，現在可以在公司網站 ifs.com.pe 上下載副本。如果您今天出於任何原因需要任何幫助，請致電 (212) 710-9686 聯繫紐約的 InspIR Group。

I would like to remind you that today's call is for investors and analysts only. Therefore questions from the media will not be taken. Please be advised that forward-looking statements may be made during this conference call. These are not future economic circumstances, industry conditions, the company's future performance or financial results. As such, the statements made are based on several assumptions and factors that could change causing actual results to materially differ from the current expectations. For a complete note on forward-looking statements, please refer to the earnings presentation and report issued on Monday, February 13.

我想提醒您，今天的電話會議僅針對投資者和分析師。因此，不會接受媒體的提問。請注意，本次電話會議期間可能會做出前瞻性陳述。這些不是未來的經濟狀況、行業狀況、公司未來的業績或財務結果。因此，所做的陳述基於若干假設和因素，這些假設和因素可能會發生變化，導致實際結果與當前預期存在重大差異。有關前瞻性陳述的完整說明，請參閱 2 月 13 日星期一發布的收益介紹和報告。

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Luis Felipe Castellanos, Chief Executive Officer of Intercorp Financial Services for his opening remarks. Mr. Castellanos, please go ahead, sir.

現在我很高興將電話轉給 Intercorp Financial Services 的首席執行官 Luis Felipe Castellanos，他將致開幕詞。 Castellanos 先生，請繼續。

Thank you very much. Good morning and welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2022 earnings call. Thank to you all for attending today's call. I wanted to start by making a brief summary of our strategy, the (inaudible) one we are deploying on IFS in order to reach -- we have shared with you before. Our purpose at IFS is to empower all Peruvians to achieve their financial well being. We're committed to do so through our 4 operating business segments. Our aspiration includes: to improve our customer -- to increase our customer base by leveraging data and analytics with sound rich management skills; to provide the best digital experience based on operational excellence, this while building a leading digital financial platform to provide profitable solutions in our key businesses that have a clear strategic focus on payments, consumer financing, wealth management and life insurance.

非常感謝。早上好，歡迎來到我們的第四季度和 2022 年全年財報電話會議。感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。我想首先簡要總結一下我們的戰略，我們在 IFS 上部署的（聽不清）戰略是為了達到——我們之前已經與您分享過。我們在 IFS 的目標是幫助所有秘魯人實現他們的財務福祉。我們致力於通過我們的 4 個運營業務部門來實現這一目標。我們的願望包括： 改善我們的客戶——通過利用數據和分析以及豐富的管理技能來增加我們的客戶群；提供基於卓越運營的最佳數字體驗，同時構建領先的數字金融平台，為我們的主要業務提供盈利解決方案，這些業務具有明確的戰略重點，包括支付、消費融資、財富管理和人壽保險。

To achieve all these goals, we continue to work on 4 main pillars. We are developing a simple, resilient and scalable technology platform for current and future growth. We are becoming a data-driven organization with deep understanding of Peruvians and consumer preferences. We are focused on attracting and developing the best talent within our remote-first framework that allows us to increase productivity and to reach the best talent regionally. And we want to become a leader in sustainability. We're adopting stronger and more widespread ESG practices to drive value creation for all of our stakeholders. This is our strategy and we continue to execute it with a long-term vision.

為實現所有這些目標，我們繼續致力於 4 個主要支柱。我們正在為當前和未來的增長開發一個簡單、有彈性和可擴展的技術平台。我們正在成為一個數據驅動的組織，對秘魯人和消費者偏好有深刻的了解。我們專注於在我們的遠程優先框架內吸引和培養最優秀的人才，這使我們能夠提高生產力並在區域範圍內接觸到最優秀的人才。我們希望成為可持續發展的領導者。我們正在採用更強大、更廣泛的 ESG 實踐來推動為所有利益相關者創造價值。這是我們的戰略，我們將繼續以長遠的眼光來執行它。

We know that we are operating in an environment of macro and political instability in our country. However, this should not distract us from reaching our objectives. We are being cautious with our operations given the scenario we're facing, but we remain committed to helping Peru and Peruvians to overcome these challenging times.

我們知道，我們在我國的宏觀和政治不穩定環境中開展業務。但是，這不應分散我們實現目標的注意力。鑑於我們所面臨的情況，我們對我們的行動持謹慎態度，但我們仍然致力於幫助秘魯和秘魯人度過這些充滿挑戰的時期。

Regarding GDP growth in Peru, December's monthly figure is expected to be announced today. But looking at the past month's figures and considering that we have had disruption occurred at the end of last year, we would expect weakened full year growth levels. Trends for 2023 show most forecasts pointing to less than 2% growth this year. Nevertheless, we remain confident that Peru's fundamentals as well as a low (inaudible) problems and the accelerated trend of digital payments provide plenty of opportunities for our businesses.

關於秘魯的 GDP 增長，預計 12 月份的月度數字將於今天公佈。但看看過去一個月的數據，並考慮到我們在去年年底發生了中斷，我們預計全年增長水平會減弱。 2023 年的趨勢顯示，大多數預測表明今年的增長率不到 2%。儘管如此，我們仍然相信秘魯的基本面以及低（聽不見）問題和數字支付的加速趨勢為我們的業務提供了大量機會。

As you will see during this call, IFS continues to show resilience in its core operations. Our banking franchise delivered solid results in 2022 with growth in net interest income and fees offsetting the requirement of higher provisions while delivering clear improvements in efficiency. Our insurance segments continues to recover its investment performance, and the Wealth Management segment posted positive numbers this quarter after 2 quarter of losses related to market conditions. Finally, our payments ecosystem continues to expand and it's in good shape to seek further growth.

正如您將在本次電話會議中看到的那樣，IFS 在其核心業務中繼續表現出彈性。我們的銀行業務在 2022 年取得了穩健的業績，淨利息收入和費用的增長抵消了更高準備金的要求，同時顯著提高了效率。我們的保險部門繼續恢復其投資業績，而財富管理部門在與市場狀況相關的第二個季度出現虧損後，本季度取得了正數。最後，我們的支付生態系統繼續擴大，並且處於尋求進一步增長的良好狀態。

With this, let me pass it on to Michela for a detailed update of our results. Once again, thanks very much for attending our call.

有了這個，讓我將它傳遞給 Michela，以獲得我們結果的詳細更新。再次非常感謝您參加我們的電話會議。

Thank you, Luis Felipe. Good morning everybody and welcome again everyone to Intercorp Financial Services fourth quarter and full year 2022 earnings call. At this time, we will review our financial highlights and key messages, but also our guidance for 2023. All the results you will see today are very much aligned with the strategy that we are deploying, as Luis Felipe has just mentioned, with a clear priority on digital growth with focus on profitability.

謝謝你，路易斯費利佩。大家早上好，再次歡迎大家參加 Intercorp Financial Services 第四季度和 2022 年全年財報電話會議。此時，我們將回顧我們的財務亮點和關鍵信息，以及我們對 2023 年的指導。您今天將看到的所有結果都非常符合我們正在部署的戰略，正如 Luis Felipe 剛才提到的那樣，具有明確的優先考慮數字增長，關注盈利能力。

I will start with a brief summary of financial highlights on Slides 3 to 11 of the presentation. On Slides 3 and 5, IFS had another strong quarter in banking and payments, good results in insurance and the first positive quarter for Wealth Management, showing a recovery in our investment portfolio. With this final quarter, the full year shows very strong core results in banking, insurance and payments, but still a negative year for Wealth Management.

我將從演示文稿幻燈片 3 到 11 的財務亮點簡要摘要開始。在幻燈片 3 和幻燈片 5 中，IFS 在銀行和支付領域又迎來了一個強勁的季度，在保險領域取得了良好的業績，在財富管理領域取得了第一個積極的季度，表明我們的投資組合正在復蘇。在最後一個季度，全年在銀行、保險和支付方面的核心業績表現非常強勁，但財富管理業務仍然是負增長的一年。

Reported earnings in the quarter came at PEN 403 million, which represents a 3% increase in recurring earnings quarter-on-quarter and shows an important growth in IFS earnings of more than 50% on a yearly basis. ROE for the quarter came at 16.5%, still impacted by a low ROE in Wealth Management of around 8%, insurance with 13.8%, and as previously mentioned, a strong quarter for banking and payments with 20.2% and 22.3% ROE, respectively.

本季度報告的收益為 4.03 億西班牙先令，經常性收益環比增長 3%，IFS 收益同比增長超過 50%。本季度的 ROE 為 16.5%，仍然受到財富管理 8% 左右、保險 13.8% 的低 ROE 的影響，並且如前所述，銀行和支付的強勁季度 ROE 分別為 20.2% 和 22.3%。

When looking at the full year figures, reported earnings reached PEN 1,671 million or PEN 1,448 million when excluding the one-off registered in the third quarter due to the accounting revaluation from book value to the price paid of the previously owned 50% of Izipay at Interbank. In the annual comparison, earnings showed a decrease of 7% in the reported figures or 20% in the normalized figures, which is mainly due to the very strong and above average results on the investment portfolio in insurance and Wealth Management during 2021, which turned negative in the case of Wealth Management for 2022. This specific trend on the return on investment portfolio is penalizing the overall yearly trends.

從全年數據來看，報告的收益達到 16.71 億西班牙比索或 14.48 億西班牙比索（如果不包括第三季度登記的一次性收入，這是由於會計重估從賬面價值到之前擁有的 Izipay 50% 的支付價格）同業銀行。在年度比較中，收益顯示報告數字下降 7%，標準化數字下降 20%，這主要是由於 2021 年保險和財富管理投資組合的業績非常強勁且高於平均水平，這使就 2022 年的財富管理而言，這是負面的。投資組合回報率的這一特定趨勢正在懲罰整體年度趨勢。

Reported ROE for the full year of IFS was 17.7% and was 15.5% when excluding the one-off. The low normalized annual ROE was mainly due to the negative impact from investments as ROE for banking, insurance and payments for the full year are all high at 19.8%, 26.6%, and 26.7%, respectively. In banking, we had a positive quarter in core activity with some signs of moderation due to the macro scenario. The shift in loan mix and repricing continue to positively impact NIM this quarter up to 5.4%.

報告的 IFS 全年淨資產收益率為 17.7%，排除一次性交易後為 15.5%。歸一化年度淨資產收益率較低主要是由於投資的負面影響，銀行、保險和支付的全年淨資產收益率分別高達 19.8%、26.6% 和 26.7%。在銀行業，由於宏觀形勢，我們的核心活動有一個積極的季度，但有一些放緩的跡象。貸款組合的轉變和重新定價繼續對本季度的 NIM 產生積極影響，高達 5.4%。

As already anticipated in our previous conference calls and in line with the change in portfolio mix, cost of risk has reached 2.5%, ending the year at 1.9%. This was a very good quarter for the operating leverage of the bank, which drove efficiency ratio down to 38%.

正如我們在之前的電話會議中所預期的那樣，根據投資組合的變化，風險成本已達到 2.5%，年底為 1.9%。對於銀行的經營槓桿而言，這是一個非常好的季度，將效率比率降至 38%。

On insurance, earnings were shy due to a stronger discipline on pricing and rates paid for annuities which slightly impacted market share, and ROE of 13.8% was below average levels, despite another strong quarter and investments with return on the investment portfolio at 7.4%. In Wealth Management, results recovered strongly than previous quarter, reaching a positive result with a 7.6% ROE, still in the path to recovery, however well below sustainable profitability.

在保險方面，由於對年金定價和支付利率的嚴格約束對市場份額產生了輕微影響，因此收益低迷，13.8% 的股本回報率低於平均水平，儘管另一個季度表現強勁且投資組合的投資回報率為 7.4%。在財富管理方面，業績比上一季度強勁復甦，取得了 7.6% 的股本回報率的積極成果，仍處於復甦之路，但遠低於可持續盈利能力。

Finally, on our payment business, on one side, Izipay continues with a solid growth in business with acquiring fees up 8% on the quarter and 32% year-over-year, strong growth in number of merchants and transactional volumes and gaining market share within our volumes in e-commerce this year. Additionally, PLIN and Tunki continue with very strong growth of users and transactions as we will see in more detail further on in the presentation, which should help us to benefit from the near future interoperability and to advance with our payment ecosystem.

最後，在我們的支付業務方面，一方面，Izipay 的業務繼續穩步增長，收單費用本季度增長 8%，同比增長 32%，商戶數量和交易量增長強勁，市場份額不斷擴大在我們今年的電子商務交易量中。此外，PLIN 和 Tunki 繼續保持非常強勁的用戶和交易增長，正如我們將在演示文稿中進一步看到的那樣，這應該有助於我們從不久的將來的互操作性中受益，並推進我們的支付生態系統。

Among the key performance indicators for the quarter in the year on Slide 6 and 7, I would like to highlight the continuous improvement in the NIM of IFS. There has been a 20 basis points improvement in the quarter with NIM, driving it up to 5.4% and the full year up to 5%. Another ratio to highlight is the quarterly efficiency ratio which stood at 34.8%, going back to pre-pandemic levels.

在幻燈片 6 和 7 的年度季度關鍵績效指標中，我想強調 IFS NIM 的持續改進。本季度 NIM 提高了 20 個基點，使其上升至 5.4%，全年上升至 5%。另一個值得強調的比率是季度效率比率，為 34.8%，回到了大流行前的水平。

On Slides 8 and 9, total recurring revenues for IFS grew 6% in the quarter, thanks to the growth registered in banking of 7%, payments of 15%, and the recovery in revenues from Wealth Management from PEN 3 million to PEN 56 million this quarter. On a full year basis, IFS revenues increased 7%, thanks mainly to the increase in revenues of 15% in banking and 22% in payment.

在幻燈片 8 和 9 中，IFS 的經常性總收入在本季度增長了 6%，這要歸功於銀行業務增長 7%、支付業務增長 15%，以及財富管理業務的收入從 300 萬比索恢復到 5600 萬比索這個季度。從全年來看，IFS 收入增長 7%，這主要歸功於銀行業務收入增長 15% 和支付業務收入增長 22%。

On Slide 10, the efficiency ratio of IFS was 34.8% in the quarter. The full-year efficiency ratio was 36.1% and would be 37.4% when excluding the positive impact from the one-off in revenues. Also, it is important to note that there is an impact in the reported cost fee use of IFS of 2022 due to the consolidation of Izipay figures starting April, which reflects a higher increase in expenses as they are included this year and they are not considered in their base of 2021.

在幻燈片 10 上，IFS 本季度的效率比為 34.8%。全年效率率為 36.1%，如果排除一次性收入的積極影響，則為 37.4%。此外，重要的是要注意，由於從 4 月開始合併 Izipay 數據，2022 年報告的 IFS 成本費用使用會受到影響，這反映出費用增加較多，因為這些費用已包含在今年且未被考慮在內在他們 2021 年的基礎上。

Normalizing Izipay effect in 2021, expenses at IFS grew 8% on a quarterly basis and only 3% year-over-year. This is a very material point, as it makes a strong difference with the reported figures and represents a key differentiating element of IFS profitability. We believe this will be the case as revenues continue to increase faster than cost, thus improving the operating leverage of the company further. In fact, 2022 has been a good year in terms of recovery of the efficiency ratio and the positive operating leverage at the banking business, which is the main contributor to the overall cost base of IFS.

Izipay 效應在 2021 年正常化，IFS 的支出每季度增長 8%，同比僅增長 3%。這是一個非常重要的觀點，因為它與報告的數字有很大的不同，並且代表了 IFS 盈利能力的關鍵差異化因素。我們相信，隨著收入增長繼續快於成本增長，情況將會如此，從而進一步提高公司的經營槓桿。事實上，就效率比率的恢復和銀行業務的積極經營槓桿而言，2022 年是一個好年頭，銀行業務是 IFS 整體成本基礎的主要貢獻者。

In the fourth quarter, the efficiency ratio of the banks stood at 37.9%, down from 42.2% in the fourth quarter of '21. The operating leverage of the bank for the fourth quarter of '22 was very strong with revenues growing 20% year-over-year and costs growing only 2%.

第四季度，銀行的效率比為 37.9%，低於 21 年第四季度的 42.2%。該銀行 22 年第四季度的經營槓桿非常強勁，收入同比增長 20%，成本僅增長 2%。

When looking at the yearly figures, the bank cost base has increased 8% mainly due to three reasons. The higher increase, 21%, is the increase in technology costs and new ventures, which include the technology expenses for our digital transformation as well as new investments in payments. A 6% increase in personnel costs which is mainly coming from the increase in mandatory employee profit sharing in line with the improvement of the local GAAP earnings. An 8% increase in variable costs related mainly to credit cards, which is below the percentage increase in credit and debit cards purchases we generate fees and financing volumes.

從年度數據來看，銀行成本基礎增加了 8%，主要有以下三個原因。更高的增幅為 21%，是技術成本和新企業的增加，其中包括我們數字化轉型的技術費用以及新的支付投資。人事成本增加 6%，這主要是由於隨著當地 GAAP 收益的改善，強制性員工利潤分享的增加。主要與信用卡相關的可變成本增加了 8%，這低於我們產生的費用和融資量的信用卡和借記卡購買的百分比增長。

Other expenses have grown single digit, reflecting our continuous cost efficiency efforts. Moreover, we have continued with our branch optimization efforts, reaching a total reduction in number of branches of 43% or more than 120 branches from the peak in 2016.

其他費用增長個位數，反映了我們不斷努力提高成本效率。此外，我們持續優化網點，網點總數較2016年高峰期減少43%或超過120家。

On Slide 11, we have a solid capital position as evidenced by the ratios of Interbank, but also in Interseguro and Inteligo. Core equity Tier 1 ratio at Interbank is at 12% as of December 2022 and the total capital ratio stands at 15.1%, well above the industry's average of 14.4% despite the strong growth in loans registered this year. Starting January 2023, we will implement some changes to the calculation of capital ratios in line with new regulations published by the superintendency with limited impact for the banking segment and some changes in Wealth Management established by the Central Bank of Bahamas.

在幻燈片 11 中，Interbank、Interseguro 和 Inteligo 的比率證明了我們擁有穩固的資本狀況。截至 2022 年 12 月，Interbank 的核心一級資本比率為 12%，總資本比率為 15.1%，遠高於行業平均水平 14.4%，儘管今年登記的貸款增長強勁。從 2023 年 1 月開始，我們將根據監管部門發布的對銀行部門影響有限的新規定以及巴哈馬中央銀行製定的財富管理方面的一些變化，對資本比率的計算進行一些更改。

Now I will focus on the 6 key messages we would like you to take home from this call on Slide #13.

現在，我將重點介紹我們希望您從幻燈片 #13 的電話會議中了解到的 6 條關鍵信息。

First, the macro outlook continues to be challenging and impacted by the political uncertainty. Second, we had a strong year in core banking business with some moderation in growth in the second half of the year. Third, we continue to work on our two-tier digital strategy, showing positive developments in our digital indicators to foster growth at IFS with sustainable profitability. Fourth, milder quarterly recovery in Wealth Management and above average investment results in insurance. Fifth, we continue to see a positive evolution in our payments business; and finally, we continue to make progress in our sustainability efforts as evidenced by our new 2022 CSA score at 62 points improving 9 points from last year and a figure that is 16 points above the world's industry average.

首先，宏觀前景繼續充滿挑戰，並受到政治不確定性的影響。其次，我們的核心銀行業務表現強勁，下半年增長有所放緩。第三，我們繼續致力於我們的兩層數字戰略，顯示我們數字指標的積極發展，以促進 IFS 的增長和可持續的盈利能力。第四，財富管理季度復甦溫和，保險投資業績高於平均水平。第五，我們繼續看到支付業務的積極發展；最後，我們在可持續發展方面繼續取得進展，我們新的 2022 年 CSA 得分為 62 分，比去年提高了 9 分，比世界行業平均水平高出 16 分。

On Slide 14, we are showing the evolution of some of the key macro indicators. GDP growth continues to be low with an estimate of 1.8% for the yearly growth of the fourth quarter. Interest rates have continued to increase with the central bank's reference rate at 7.75% And the dollar rate at 4.25%. However, there has been a post of the new increases in the soles rates during the last week central bank meeting.

在幻燈片 14 上，我們展示了一些關鍵宏觀指標的演變。 GDP 增長繼續保持低位，預計第四季度的年增長率為 1.8%。利率持續上升，央行參考利率為 7.75%，美元利率為 4.25%。然而，在上週的央行會議上，出現了新的鞋底利率上調的消息。

The exchange rate has registered the ups and downs in the past weeks and it's now down to 3.81 soles per dollar at the end of December. Inflation continues high at 8.5% as of December, reverting the first signs of change in trend due to the disruption that registered by the protests in different parts of the country, mainly in the south, and the blockage of highways.

匯率在過去幾周經歷了起起伏伏，目前在 12 月底已跌至 1 美元兌 3.81 索爾。截至 12 月，通貨膨脹率繼續保持在 8.5% 的高位，恢復了由於該國不同地區（主要是南部）的抗議活動和高速公路堵塞造成的破壞而出現的趨勢變化的最初跡象。

On Slide 16, moving to the good news of banking, we have continued to see a good performance in activity in the quarter, despite continued slowing down in financing growth as discussed during the previous calls as we have just adjusted our credit underwriting standards in specific sub pockets of low income clients which start to see some impacts of the slowdown of the economy and sustained inflation and now on top of the disruption of December, and also January.

在幻燈片 16 上，轉向銀行業的好消息，我們繼續看到本季度的良好活動表現，儘管正如之前電話會議所討論的那樣，融資增長持續放緩，因為我們剛剛調整了具體的信貸承銷標準低收入客戶的子群體開始看到經濟放緩和持續通貨膨脹的一些影響，現在在 12 月和 1 月的中斷之上。

Moreover, due to the disruption in payments from clients caused by the protests, especially in the south of the country, but some extent also in other regions, we have given additional payment facilities to clients by rescheduling some payments in consumer finance, and to a minor extent, also in SMEs.

此外，由於抗議活動導致客戶付款中斷，特別是在該國南部，但在某種程度上也在其他地區，我們通過重新安排消費金融中的一些付款，為客戶提供額外的支付便利，以及較小的程度，也在中小企業中。

Despite these, credit cards and debit cards purchases continue to increase 7% on a quarterly basis and 28% on a yearly basis. In the same way, balances have increased 8% in the quarter and 29% on a yearly basis in line with the industry. We continue to see important growth in purchases as both credit and debit cards continue in their path of increased penetration in the country, which is still low. This growth has allowed us to increase market share around 100 basis points in the past 12 months for the combined purchases, thanks mainly to our Interbank benefit loyalty program, our increased focus on e-commerce and high growth product categories, and finally, also thanks to our upselling strategy.

儘管如此，信用卡和借記卡的購買量繼續按季度增長 7%，按年增長 28%。同樣，本季度餘額增長 8%，年增長 29%，與行業一致。我們繼續看到購買量的重要增長，因為信用卡和借記卡繼續在該國的滲透率增加的道路上，該國的滲透率仍然很低。這種增長使我們在過去 12 個月中將合併購買的市場份額增加了約 100 個基點，這主要歸功於我們的銀行間利益忠誠度計劃，我們更加關注電子商務和高增長產品類別，最後，還要感謝到我們的向上銷售策略。

New disbursement of personal loans have seen a recovery when compared to the previous quarter, but registered lower year-over-year growth of 8%. On the SME front, disbursement continue to be strong in the fourth quarter and are 17% above third quarter and twice the level of last year and are helping this portfolio to grow nicely during 2022 starting from a very low base of less than 3% market share in the segment.

與上一季度相比，新發放的個人貸款有所回升，但同比增幅較低，為 8%。在中小企業方面，第四季度支出繼續強勁，比第三季度高出 17%，是去年水平的兩倍，並幫助該投資組合在 2022 年從低於 3% 的非常低的市場基數開始良好增長在細分市場中佔有一席之地。

On Slide 17, we continue to see solid double digit growth in banking revenues, thanks to double digit growth in net interest income and fee income. Net interest income grew 23%, with a strong contribution of net interest income coming from credit cards and personal loans, but also from the repricing of commercial banking loans. Fee income grew 12%, thanks to the strong growth of credit cards fee income, due to the evolution of credit and debit cards purchases, but also to the sustained strong growth in fee income coming from cash management services in commercial banking.

在幻燈片 17 中，由於淨利息收入和手續費收入的兩位數增長，我們繼續看到銀行收入實現兩位數的穩健增長。淨利息收入增長 23%，主要來自信用卡和個人貸款的淨利息收入，以及商業銀行貸款的重新定價。手續費收入增長 12%，這要歸功於信用卡和借記卡購買的發展導致信用卡手續費收入的強勁增長，以及來自商業銀行現金管理服務的手續費收入的持續強勁增長。

Other income at the bank recovered and was up 9% year-over-year. All in all, total core revenues grew 20% in the fourth quarter when compared to the fourth quarter of '21, a very strong recovery in banking revenues which continues with a positive operating leverage, as previously mentioned.

該銀行的其他收入有所恢復，同比增長 9%。總而言之，與 2021 年第四季度相比，第四季度核心總收入增長了 20%，如前所述，銀行收入的複蘇非常強勁，並繼續保持積極的經營槓桿。

On Slide 18, we continue to see a strong portfolio shift to higher yielding loans. Retail loans reached 54% of the total portfolio versus 49% one year ago. And moreover, credit cards and personal loans reached 22% of the total loan book versus 18% one year ago. Reactiva loans as of December represent only 5% of the total loan book, down from 9%, 1 year ago. These effects, together with the increase in the SME loan book, still small, and the increase in rates is pushing yield of loans upwards 70 basis points in this quarter and 220 basis points in the year reaching 10.5%, and NIM, 40 basis points in the quarter and 100 basis points in the year reaching 5.4%. Risk-adjusted NIM has remained stable in the quarter due to the increase in the cost of risk.

在幻燈片 18 上，我們繼續看到投資組合向高收益貸款的強勁轉變。零售貸款佔總投資組合的 54%，而一年前為 49%。此外，信用卡和個人貸款佔貸款總額的 22%，而一年前這一比例為 18%。截至 12 月，Reactiva 貸款僅佔貸款總額的 5%，低於一年前的 9%。這些影響，加上中小企業貸款的增長仍然很小，利率的上升推動貸款收益率在本季度上升 70 個基點，全年上升 220 個基點，達到 10.5%，淨息差為 40 個基點本季度和全年 100 個基點達到 5.4%。由於風險成本增加，本季度經風險調整後的淨息差保持穩定。

We have also seen rising cost of funds as we start to see both the effect of the rise in the rates of dollars, funds, and the continuous raises in soles rates as shown on Slide 19. Cost of funds reached 3.2% in the quarter, up 40 basis points in the quarter and 160 basis points in the year. We have the best loan-to-deposit ratio among peers at 101% as of December versus a system average of 107%.

我們還看到資金成本上升，因為我們開始看到美元、基金利率上升和鞋底利率持續上升的影響，如幻燈片 19 所示。本季度資金成本達到 3.2%，本季度上漲 40 個基點，全年上漲 160 個基點。截至 12 月，我們擁有同行中最好的貸存比，為 101%，而係統平均水平為 107%。

On Slide 20, as anticipated, we see increasing levels of cost of risk in line with the shift in the loan mix but also from the impact of the sustained high inflation and the latest disruption in the economy due to the process. Cost of risk in the quarter was up to 2.5%, already above pre-COVID levels of around 2%, mainly due to the impact from the retail portfolio, which has reached a cost of risk of 4.7%, again above recovered level.

正如預期的那樣，在幻燈片 20 上，我們看到風險成本水平不斷上升，這與貸款組合的變化一致，但也受到持續高通脹的影響以及該過程導致的經濟最近中斷的影響。本季度的風險成本高達 2.5%，已經高於 COVID 前約 2% 的水平，這主要是由於零售組合的影響，其風險成本已達到 4.7%，再次高於恢復水平。

During this quarter, we have made some adjustments to the calculation of the expected loss, which includes an update of the forward-looking variables but also apply a more conservative view on the consumer portfolio, shifting expert criteria from commercial banking to retail banking, which resulted in an extraordinary negative impact in retail and a positive one in commercial. This is the main reason why the reported cost of risk figures show a 6.1% for retail and a reversion of 1.6% in commercial banking. For this reason, the NPL coverage ratio continues to be very high in retail banking at 244%, which is much higher than the 179% that we had recalled.

在本季度，我們對預期損失的計算進行了一些調整，其中包括更新前瞻性變量，但也對消費者組合採用更保守的觀點，將專家標準從商業銀行轉移到零售銀行，這對零售業產生了非同尋常的負面影響，對商業產生了積極影響。這是報告的風險成本數據顯示零售業為 6.1% 而商業銀行業為 1.6% 的主要原因。因此，零售銀行的不良貸款覆蓋率仍然很高，為 244%，遠高於我們回顧的 179%。

Now let's move to the third key message on Slide 23. Our digital indicators show nice trends when compared to the previous year. Still, there is a way to go in moving these indicators further. As of December, digital customers reached 71% of customers who interact with the bank during the last 30 days, up 6 points in the past year. Digital acquisition reached 57%, up 19 points from last year, and digital sales reached 64%, increasing 6 points in the last year, all indicators focused on retail.

現在讓我們轉到幻燈片 23 上的第三個關鍵信息。與去年相比，我們的數字指標顯示出不錯的趨勢。不過，要進一步推動這些指標，還有一段路要走。截至 12 月，數字客戶覆蓋了過去 30 天內與銀行互動的客戶的 71%，比去年上升了 6 個百分點。數字收購達到57%，比去年提高19個百分點，數字銷售達到64%，比去年提高6個百分點，各項指標都集中在零售上。

We see an important number of new digital accounts being opened, both for individuals and businesses. As of the end of December, 58% of new retail saving accounts were opened digitally while 94% of new business accounts were opened digitally. NPS for digital customers continues its path to become a top NPS in the next years, reaching 49 points this quarter, improving 3 points versus the previous year. Insurance digital indicators show positive developments as well with SOAT insurance already at 80% and Vida cash life premiums, a digital product, reaching 39% of total life premiums.

我們看到為個人和企業開設了大量新的數字賬戶。截至 12 月底，58% 的新零售儲蓄賬戶以數字方式開設，而 94% 的新商業賬戶以數字方式開設。數字客戶的 NPS 在未來幾年繼續成為頂級 NPS，本季度達到 49 分，比上一年提高 3 分。保險數字指標顯示出積極的發展，SOAT 保險已經達到 80%，數字產品 Vida 現金壽險保費達到總壽險保費的 39%。

On Slide 25, in line with our digital strategy, we continue to see an important growth in our customer base of 18% in retail, 29% in digital retail customers and 20% in commercial banking customers reaching more than 5 million customers as of the end of December.

在幻燈片 25 上，根據我們的數字戰略，我們繼續看到零售客戶群增長 18%，數字零售客戶增長 29%，商業銀行客戶增長 20%，截至 2018 年，客戶數量超過 500 萬十二月底。

On Slide 27 and 28, we are showing improvement in the Wealth Management portfolio and another strong quarter in the insurance portfolio. Wealth Management, on Slide 27, had a positive yet small return on the investment portfolio, almost entirely reverting losses from other income and strongly improving revenues, up to PEN 56 million in the quarter. This has helped improve bottom line results for the quarter but remain in negative territory in the year in figures. Good news for the insurance segment with another quarter of strong returns on the investment portfolio with ROIC at 7.4% in the quarter, still above average historical levels.

在幻燈片 27 和 28 上，我們展示了財富管理組合的改善和保險組合的另一個強勁季度。位於幻燈片 27 上的財富管理部門的投資組合獲得了積極但較小的回報，幾乎完全彌補了其他收入的損失，並大幅提高了收入，本季度高達 5600 萬先令。這有助於改善本季度的底線結果，但在今年的數字中仍處於負值區域。對保險部門來說是個好消息，本季度投資組合的投資組合回報率為 7.4%，仍高於歷史平均水平。

Now moving on to payments on Slide 30. We are showing strong growth in number of merchants and transactional volumes. Merchants increased 14% in the quarter and 73% year-over-year, reaching more than 1 million. Transactional volumes grew 10% in the quarter and 33% year-over-year. Moreover, e-commerce transactions are gaining share within our total transactional volumes, reaching 17% as of the end of December and in line with our strategy. Revenues continued to grow nicely, 15% in the quarter and 8% year-over-year, supported by the increase in transactional volumes and merchants.

現在轉到幻燈片 30 上的支付。我們顯示商家數量和交易量的強勁增長。商戶本季度增長 14%，同比增長 73%，達到超過 100 萬。本季度交易量增長 10%，同比增長 33%。此外，電子商務交易在我們的總交易量中所佔份額正在增加，截至 12 月底達到 17%，這符合我們的戰略。在交易量和商家增加的支持下，收入繼續良好增長，本季度增長 15%，同比增長 8%。

We are also including info related to EBITDA this quarter to show the improvement registered this quarter, which reached 26% and 24% year-over-year. We have been working to accelerate the growth of our payment ecosystem by having all our assets work towards a common strategy. We are focusing on increasing transactional volumes, offering merchants additional services, continue to pilot low-risk loans to merchants, and use Izipay as a distribution network for Interbank products as well as a source of float.

我們還包括本季度與 EBITDA 相關的信息，以顯示本季度的改善情況，同比分別達到 26% 和 24%。我們一直致力於通過讓我們的所有資產朝著一個共同的戰略努力來加速我們支付生態系統的發展。我們專注於增加交易量，為商家提供額外服務，繼續試點向商家提供低風險貸款，並使用 Izipay 作為同業產品的分銷網絡和流動性來源。

On Slide 31 and 32, PLIN and Tunki continue with their accelerated growth. PLIN reached almost 10 million users as of the end of December with Interbank participation as main bank account still above 40%, and Tunki users reached 2.5 million. Number of merchants continue to increase as well or 91% year-over-year for PLIN and 65% for Tunki.

在幻燈片 31 和 32 中，PLIN 和 Tunki 繼續加速增長。截至 12 月底，PLIN 的用戶已接近 1000 萬，作為主要銀行賬戶的 Interbank 參與度仍超過 40%，Tunki 用戶達到 250 萬。商家數量也繼續增加，PLIN 同比增長 91%，Tunki 同比增長 65%。

The number of transactions has seen a strong acceleration in the past 3 quarters. This quarter, the strong growth of the previous quarter has continued, reaching a 33% quarter-over-quarter for PLIN and 45% quarter-over-quarter for Tunki. We are currently working on getting ready for PLIN and Yape interoperability. This is an important development for financial inclusion in the country, which the Central Bank has encouraged and which should help to bring more people into the financial system, reducing use of cash, which continues to be high in the country. Technical tests start next week, and we expect full deployment to be ready in April.

交易數量在過去 3 個季度中出現了強勁的加速增長。本季度延續了上一季度的強勁增長，PLIN 環比增長 33%，Tunki 環比增長 45%。我們目前正致力於為 PLIN 和 Yape 互操作性做好準備。這是該國金融包容性的重要發展，中央銀行對此表示鼓勵，這應該有助於讓更多人進入金融體系，減少現金的使用，而現金的使用在該國仍然很高。技術測試將於下週開始，我們預計全面部署將在 4 月準備就緒。

On Slide 34, moving on to our sustainability strategy, we have continued to build upon our focus areas. Our efforts in the last 12 months have allowed us to improve our Corporate Sustainability Assessment score this year, reaching 62 points, an improvement of 9 points as we announced during our last conference call. But now we are also able to compare this result with the world's industry average for 2022, which was 46 points. Thus, we are 16 points above that average, which reflects improvements in the environmental, social and governance and economic areas.

在幻燈片 34 上，繼續我們的可持續發展戰略，我們繼續建立我們的重點領域。我們在過去 12 個月的努力使我們今年的企業可持續發展評估得分提高，達到 62 分，比我們在上次電話會議上宣布的提高了 9 分。但現在我們還可以將這一結果與 2022 年的世界行業平均水平（46 分）進行比較。因此，我們比平均水平高出 16 個百分點，這反映了環境、社會和治理以及經濟領域的改善。

Our latest developments in ESG include, on the social front, being all 4 companies in the top 10 positions of Great Place to Work Peru 2023, further contents and learnings through Aprendemas, our financial services education platform with almost 700,000 users, and in the governance front, we have received the #1 position by Merco on top companies, both in the reputation category and in the ESG category as Interbank Corporate.

我們在 ESG 方面的最新進展包括，在社會方面，所有 4 家公司都位列 Great Place to Work Peru 2023 前 10 名，通過我們擁有近 700,000 名用戶的金融服務教育平台 Aprendemas 提供更多內容和學習，以及在治理方面前面，我們在聲譽類別和 ESG 類別的頂級公司中獲得了 Merco 作為銀行間公司的第一名。

Now let me move to the new guidance for 2023 on Page 37. And let me mention that insurance figures included in the guidance includes preliminary IFRS 17 figures, which are currently under review and which may lead to some adjustments. The guidance reflects a full alignment with our strategy, which has 3 clear priorities. One, grow client base and top line in a sustainable and profitable way; two, provide a top experience to clients digitally; three, focus on key businesses, including consumer finance, payments, efficient funding, insurance and Wealth Management.

現在讓我轉到第 37 頁的 2023 年新指南。讓我提一下，指南中包含的保險數據包括 IFRS 17 的初步數據，這些數據目前正在審查中，可能會導致一些調整。該指南反映了與我們戰略的完全一致，該戰略具有 3 個明確的優先事項。第一，以可持續和盈利的方式擴大客戶群和收入；第二，以數字方式為客戶提供頂級體驗；三、聚焦重點業務，包括消費金融、支付、高效理財、保險和財富管理。

2023 guidance goes as follows. First, we are maintaining the same guidance for the capital ratio, which implies capital ratios to remain at sound levels, with total capital ratio at around 15% and core equity Tier-1 ratio at around 11%. Second, a continued path to recovery in core profitability with 2023 IFS ROE at around 18%. In terms of loan growth for 2023, we expect again high single-digit growth in total loans when excluding last repayments of Reactiva led by low double-digit growth in consumer loans.

2023 年指導如下。首先，我們維持相同的資本比率指引，這意味著資本比率將保持在良好水平，總資本比率在 15% 左右，核心一級股權比率在 11% 左右。其次，核心盈利能力繼續復甦，2023 年 IFS ROE 約為 18%。就 2023 年的貸款增長而言，如果不包括消費貸款兩位數低增長導致的 Reactiva 最後還款，我們預計總貸款將再次實現高個位數增長。

For 2023, we are focusing the NIM guidance on Interbank. We expect Interbank NIM to be between 5.5% and 6% after closing 2022 at an average 4.9%. Cost of risk for banking is expected to increase in 2023 and to be above pre-COVID levels and reach a number between 2.6% and 3%. Finally, we will focus on efficiency, especially on positive operating leverage.

2023 年，我們將 NIM 指南的重點放在銀行間。我們預計銀行間淨息差在 2022 年平均 4.9% 後將介於 5.5% 和 6% 之間。銀行業的風險成本預計將在 2023 年增加，並高於 COVID 之前的水平，達到 2.6% 至 3% 之間的數字。最後，我們將關注效率，尤其是積極的經營槓桿。

At this time, we are not ready to include the guidance for the efficiency ratio at IFS level, which we will do during the next quarter once IFRS 17 is fully reflected in the figures. But we are also adding, as guidance, the efficiency ratio of the bank as it is one of the main drivers of efficiency for IFS. We expect Interbank efficiency ratio to be below 39% for 2023 as we expect revenues to continue growing double digit while expenses don't.

目前，我們還沒有準備好在 IFS 層面納入效率比率的指導，一旦 IFRS 17 完全反映在數據中，我們將在下一季度進行。但我們還添加了銀行的效率比率作為指導，因為它是 IFS 效率的主要驅動因素之一。我們預計 2023 年銀行同業拆借效率將低於 39%，因為我們預計收入將繼續以兩位數增長，而支出則不會。

On Slide 38, let me recap the 6 key messages of this presentation. First, the macro outlook continues to be challenging and is impacted by the political uncertainty. Second, we had a strong year in core banking business with some moderation in growth in the second half of the year. Third, we continue to work on our 2-tier digital strategy, showing positive developments in our digital indicators to foster growth at IFS with sustainable profitability. Fourth, there has been a mild recovery in Wealth Management in the quarter and above average investment results in insurance. Fifth, we continue to see a positive evolution in our payment business. And finally, we continue to make progress in our sustainability efforts as evidenced by our new 2022 CSA score at 62, 16 points above the world's industry average.

在幻燈片 38 上，讓我回顧一下本次演示文稿的 6 條關鍵信息。首先，宏觀前景繼續充滿挑戰，並受到政治不確定性的影響。其次，我們的核心銀行業務表現強勁，下半年增長有所放緩。第三，我們繼續致力於我們的二級數字戰略，顯示我們數字指標的積極發展，以促進 IFS 的增長和可持續的盈利能力。第四，本季度財富管理溫和復蘇，保險投資業績高於平均水平。第五，我們繼續看到支付業務的積極發展。最後，我們在可持續發展方面繼續取得進展，我們新的 2022 年 CSA 得分為 62 分，比世界行業平均水平高出 16 分。

Thank you very much. Now we welcome any questions you might have.

非常感謝。現在我們歡迎您提出任何問題。

Thank you. At this time, we will open the floor for your questions. (Operator Instructions) The first question comes from Ernesto Gabilondo with Bank of America.

謝謝。屆時，我們將為您提問。 （操作員說明）第一個問題來自美國銀行的 Ernesto Gabilondo。

Good morning, Luis Felipe. Michela, thank you for your presentation and for the opportunity to take questions. My first question is related to the monetization of the digital initiatives. We have seen in the region that the digital transformation has shifted to profitability versus client growth. And also, we have detected that the monetization is really coming from having digital deposits and digital loans, while the other products like payments, digital insurance, digital wealth management, the electronic marketplace are key to build the ecosystem and the relationship with the client but are not necessarily the key elements that will monetize the client. On the other hand, we have seen that Peru is not really a country that is facing the competition from fintechs that we're seeing in Brazil, Mexico or Colombia.

早上好，路易斯·費利佩。 Michela，感謝您的介紹和提問的機會。我的第一個問題與數字計劃的貨幣化有關。我們在該地區看到，數字化轉型已轉向盈利而非客戶增長。而且，我們發現貨幣化實際上來自數字存款和數字貸款，而支付、數字保險、數字財富管理、電子市場等其他產品是構建生態系統和與客戶關係的關鍵，但不一定是將客戶貨幣化的關鍵要素。另一方面，我們已經看到，秘魯並不是一個真正面臨來自巴西、墨西哥或哥倫比亞的金融科技競爭的國家。

So can you elaborate on how your digital initiatives would translate into better efficiencies and a higher ROE at a consolidated level? And what would be the time line to achieve that?

那麼，您能否詳細說明您的數字計劃將如何在綜合層面轉化為更高的效率和更高的 ROE？實現這一目標的時間表是什麼時候？

And then my second question is a follow-up on your '23 guidance. Just how should we think about the OpEx growth at a consolidated level? Would it be at the same pace of growth that we saw last year that's most at double digit? Or do you think will be above inflation plus certain digital investments? Any color on that will be very helpful. Thank you.

然後我的第二個問題是對你的 23 年指南的跟進。我們應該如何綜合考慮 OpEx 的增長？它會以我們去年看到的最高兩位數的相同速度增長嗎？或者你認為會高於通貨膨脹加上某些數字投資嗎？上面的任何顏色都會非常有幫助。謝謝。

Okay. Hi, Ernesto, thanks for your question. It's really a very profound question that probably will require many minutes of hours of conversation. But let me take a crack at it to see if at least I can go to start with some of your points. I completely agree with you in terms of a change in the way some companies or firms are looking at their digital efforts, obviously, we've seen what happened in the market and now the search for growth is switching to profitability or to more specific income-generating activities.

好的。嗨，埃內斯托，謝謝你的提問。這確實是一個非常深刻的問題，可能需要進行數小時的對話。但是讓我嘗試一下，看看我是否至少可以從您的一些觀點開始。我完全同意你改變一些公司或公司看待他們的數字化努力的方式，顯然，我們已經看到了市場上發生的事情，現在對增長的追求正在轉向盈利能力或更具體的收入-生成活動。

Luckily, I think that's the view that we've had since the beginning. As we've mentioned before, we had a 2-tier digital strategy. And the first part of the digital strategy, what we call the first tier, essentially to digitize what we do. Okay? So basically, there's no magic there. What we are doing is to be able to provide consumers the ability to do in a digital way, everything they do with the Interbank or Interseguro physically today, but digitally. That has been the premise around what we've been doing. So now like 90% plus of the things that a customer can do with the bank, for instance, can be done digitally. And the focus there has been laser sharp on making sure that that new proposition has lower customer acquisition costs or lower customer serving costs, while providing what you can call traditional banking products, let's say, but in a digital way.

幸運的是，我認為這是我們從一開始就持有的觀點。正如我們之前提到的，我們有一個兩層數字戰略。數字戰略的第一部分，我們稱之為第一層，主要是將我們所做的事情數字化。好的？所以基本上，那裡沒有魔法。我們正在做的是能夠為消費者提供以數字方式進行操作的能力，他們今天通過 Interbank 或 Interseguro 進行的所有操作都是以數字方式進行的。這是我們一直在做的事情的前提。因此，例如，現在客戶可以通過銀行完成的 90% 以上的事情都可以通過數字方式完成。重點是確保新提議具有更低的客戶獲取成本或更低的客戶服務成本，同時以數字方式提供所謂的傳統銀行產品。

And we've made lots of progress there. As you know, 71% -- 70% plus of our customers do not touch a branch in the interaction with Interbank for the last 30 days, for instance. So that's moving ahead. And then we have the other part, while we've got the second part, tier 2 part of our strategy, which is deploying different things to create the ecosystem, like payments, like what we did with Tunki, like what we've been doing with open banking, connecting with other players that are not financial related so we can complement and provide our services.

我們在那裡取得了很多進展。如您所知，例如，在過去 30 天內，71% - 70% 以上的客戶在與 Interbank 的互動中沒有接觸過分行。這就是前進的方向。然後我們有另一部分，而我們有第二部分，我們戰略的第 2 層部分，它正在部署不同的東西來創建生態系統，比如支付，就像我們對 Tunki 所做的那樣，就像我們一直以來所做的那樣與開放銀行業務合作，與其他與金融無關的參與者建立聯繫，以便我們可以補充和提供我們的服務。

And that part has also kind of 2 ways to look at it. Some are completely new ventures that we are very ready to kill if we don't see that traction. Kill or pivot, if we don't see that traction is coming where we were expecting. We are not in the game of just thinking someday, we will see how this gets monetized. We are very disciplined in targeting short-term and medium goals and analyzing exactly how we do.

那部分也有兩種看待它的方法。有些是全新的企業，如果我們看不到這種吸引力，我們就準備好將其扼殺。如果我們沒有看到牽引力出現在我們預期的地方，那就殺戮或轉向。有一天，我們不只是在思考遊戲，我們將看到如何將其貨幣化。我們在確定短期和中期目標並準確分析我們的工作方式方面非常有紀律。

An example of that is what we did with Rappi, for instance. We launched Rappi Bank, and there are certain assumptions. And we've been pivoting that effort. We have not scaled it because one alternative is to continue pouring money into the effort, but another is to maintain the scale, small, trying to find its market, its destiny, its segment. So far, we have not been very successful there. That's why we keep it as a very small initiative. We don't even talk about that anymore because we still have not been able to shake that initiative. But we have that discipline. That's what we do.

例如，我們對 Rappi 所做的就是一個例子。我們推出了 Rappi Bank，並且有一些假設。我們一直在努力。我們沒有擴大它的規模，因為一種選擇是繼續投入資金，但另一種選擇是保持規模，小規模，試圖找到它的市場、它的命運、它的細分市場。到目前為止，我們在那裡還不是很成功。這就是為什麼我們把它作為一個非常小的倡議。我們甚至不再談論它，因為我們仍然無法動搖這一主動權。但我們有紀律。這就是我們所做的。

And then we have other types like payments where we are investing heavily in the ecosystem because, as you mentioned, it will be both an enabler of developing better, more strong relationship with customers and merchants, creating new avenues and new sources for growth for us, but also it will allow us to tap in new segments that we have not been tapping before, like merchants, for instance. So that's the way we are looking at this. We are not based on the fintech thought of scale will bring everything and sometime in the future, money will come in. So we do have short and medium-term goals in order to see how these ventures are rendering the results.

然後我們還有其他類型，比如支付，我們在生態系統中投入了大量資金，因為正如你提到的，這將有助於與客戶和商家發展更好、更牢固的關係，為我們創造新的增長途徑和新來源，但它也將使我們能夠挖掘我們以前沒有挖掘過的新細分市場，例如商家。這就是我們看待這個問題的方式。我們不是基於規模會帶來一切的金融科技思想，在未來的某個時候，錢會進來。所以我們確實有短期和中期目標，以了解這些企業如何呈現結果。

And you're right that the Peruvian market has not seen lots of disruption from new fintechs or digital players. I think it's the incumbents that are cannibalizing themselves in terms of the business, some with more positive results than others. But we are getting ready, as we've discussed before, to receive potential competition from local fintechs, international fintechs or digital banks. They will come to this market. We're very conscious of that. It's just a matter of time. And what we're doing is (inaudible) as quickly possible to receive them, therefore, when they come to our Peruvian market. Okay? So I hope that this kind of addressed your question. By monetization of what we do is very present, what we are deploying our Tier 1 transformation or the new initiative of Tier 2 transformation.

你是對的，秘魯市場沒有看到新的金融科技或數字玩家的大量破壞。我認為是現任者在業務方面自我蠶食，其中一些比其他人取得了更積極的結果。但正如我們之前所討論的那樣，我們正準備迎接來自本地金融科技公司、國際金融科技公司或數字銀行的潛在競爭。他們會來到這個市場。我們非常清楚這一點。這只是時間問題。我們正在做的是（聽不清）盡快接收它們，因此，當它們進入我們的秘魯市場時。好的？所以我希望這能解決你的問題。通過我們所做的貨幣化，我們正在部署我們的第 1 層轉型或第 2 層轉型的新計劃。

On #2, in terms of the OpEx, I'm going to pass it on to Michela, who will have obviously our numbers to 2023. She will be able to give you a little more detail. However, I anticipate, as she mentioned, that there might be some changes because of some reclassifications coming from IFRS 17. But she can provide you a snapshot of how we're approaching discipline in OpEx for next year.

關於 #2，就 OpEx 而言，我將把它傳遞給 Michela，她顯然會知道我們到 2023 年的數字。她將能夠為您提供更多細節。然而，正如她所提到的，我預計可能會因為 IFRS 17 的一些重新分類而發生一些變化。但她可以為您提供我們如何處理明年 OpEx 紀律的快照。

Ernesto, I tried to be clear on this effect during the script, maybe I was not able to, but we have not had a double-digit cost-based growth at IFS during 2022, okay? In the reported figures, there is an important effect that is that we are including the cost of the payment of Izipay during 2022, but not in the base of 2021 because of the entrance in April. So the comparison that you see there of the reported figures, we show double-digit, it's not comparable. Okay. So what we have tried to do in the slide that we show in the presentation, the Slide #10 is normalize the bases. So what you see there at IFS level is that expenses are growing. The fourth quarter is growing only 3% year-over-year. And with this new base, the efficiency ratio of the fourth quarter is 34.8%.

埃內斯托，我試圖在腳本中弄清楚這種影響，也許我做不到，但我們在 2022 年期間沒有在 IFS 實現兩位數的基於成本的增長，好嗎？在報告的數字中，有一個重要的影響是我們將 2022 年期間的 Izipay 支付成本包括在內，但由於 4 月份進入，因此不包括在 2021 年的基數中。所以你看到的報告數字的比較，我們顯示兩位數，這是不可比的。好的。因此，我們在演示文稿中展示的幻燈片中嘗試做的，幻燈片 #10 是標準化鹼基。所以你在 IFS 級別看到的是費用在增長。第四季度同比僅增長 3%。而有了這個新基地，第四季度的效率比為34.8%。

And we're also showing that the bank, which at the end, is the main contributor, the full year cost of the bank have only grown 8%. And I'm providing the breakdown there. That 8% is coming from a 20% growth in everything related to digital transformation, payments, et cetera, and all the other numbers are single-digit growth. And this is the reason why we expect the operating leverage for Interbank to continue to be positive next year with revenues that will continue to grow double digit because of rates and everything that we are seeing and expenses growing only single digit at Interbank.

而且我們還表明，銀行最終是主要貢獻者，銀行的全年成本僅增長了 8%。我在那裡提供故障。這 8% 來自與數字化轉型、支付等相關的所有領域 20% 的增長，而所有其他數字都是個位數增長。這就是為什麼我們預計 Interbank 的經營槓桿明年將繼續保持正數，收入將繼續增長兩位數，因為利率和我們所看到的一切以及 Interbank 的支出僅增長一位數。

Now, having said so, the reason why we are not, at this point, ready to show you or to give you a guidance with the efficiency ratio of IFS as we have always done, last year, the guidance was between 35% and 37%, is that as we are finalizing the implementation of IFRS 17, there are some -- I mean, the definitions in where exactly revenues, negative revenues and cost go within the P&L. So once we will solve that out, we will be able to provide that figure. But I think the important message here is operating leverage will continue to be positive for the bank and for IFS.

現在，話雖如此，我們現在還沒有準備好向您展示或向您提供 IFS 效率比的指導，就像我們一直所做的那樣，去年，指導在 35% 到 37 之間%，是因為我們正在完成 IFRS 17 的實施，有一些——我的意思是，收入、負收入和成本在損益表中的確切位置的定義。因此，一旦我們解決了這個問題，我們就能夠提供該數字。但我認為這裡的重要信息是運營槓桿將繼續對銀行和 IFS 有利。

And maybe if I can just add on the philosophical discussion about monetization on everything that we are doing. Sometimes, Ernesto I mean, what we're trying to do here is also try to link it to the P&L lines because at the end of the day, this is going to have an impact on ROE, either it has an impact of revenues or risk-adjusted revenues or costs. So basically, I would say that a strong part of the impact of everything we're doing in digital and analytics is coming from an impact on the top line, which comes from not only more clients but more cross-sell and more revenues per client, both on loans and deposits.

也許我可以在我們正在做的每件事上添加關於貨幣化的哲學討論。有時，埃內斯托，我的意思是，我們在這裡試圖做的也是嘗試將其與損益線聯繫起來，因為在一天結束時，這將對 ROE 產生影響，要么對收入產生影響，要么風險調整後的收入或成本。所以基本上，我想說我們在數字和分析方面所做的一切影響的很大一部分來自對頂線的影響，這不僅來自更多的客戶，還來自更多的交叉銷售和每個客戶的更多收入, 包括貸款和存款。

And I can just give you one small example. We have been very active with the digital opening of SMEs accounts. Those accounts have increased substantially in the last 2, 3 years. And the balances that we used to have there, as I think we showed you on the Investor Day, I mean, we went from almost nothing to PLN 1,500 million deposits. So that is flow. So that is, if you want, a concrete impact of the opening of digital accounts for SMEs.

我可以舉一個小例子。我們一直非常積極地為中小企業開設數字賬戶。這些賬戶在過去 2、3 年中大幅增加。正如我認為我們在投資者日向您展示的那樣，我們過去在那裡擁有的餘額，我的意思是，我們從幾乎沒有存款到 15 億波蘭茲羅提的存款。這就是流量。所以，如果你願意的話，這就是為中小企業開設數字賬戶的具體影響。

But also, we are expecting improvement in the risk-adjusted figures because everything we're doing with digital and analytics should also have an impact in better understanding the risk profile of clients. And the last thing I would say is that on the efficiency front, the marginal cost of everything we are doing are for sure, higher. And this is why we have been able to double the client base of the bank from 2-point something million 3-4 years ago to more than 5 million this year with costs that have been growing single digit. So I think those 3 components are the ones that on everything we do with digital and analytics are pointing out to that, which, at the end, should lead to a positive operating leverage and an improvement in the numbers and sustainable ROE. Hope that helps.

而且，我們預計風險調整後的數字會有所改善，因為我們在數字和分析方面所做的一切也應該對更好地了解客戶的風險狀況產生影響。最後我要說的是，在效率方面，我們所做的一切的邊際成本肯定更高。這就是為什麼我們能夠將銀行的客戶群從 3-4 年前的 2 點左右增加到今年的超過 500 萬，而成本一直在以個位數增長。因此，我認為這 3 個組成部分是我們在數字和分析方面所做的一切所指出的，最終應該導致積極的運營槓桿以及數量和可持續 ROE 的改善。希望有所幫助。

So this is super helpful, Felipe and Michela.

所以這非常有幫助，Felipe 和 Michela。

Your next question comes from the line of Yuri Fernandes with JPMorgan.

你的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Yuri Fernandes。

I have a question regarding your cost of risk. It should increase, right, as per your guidance? So if you can share like your expectations, maybe you should use a lower GDP and this is basically expected loss model being a little bit more punitive, ir if you are seeing like more concerning, as you mentioned, like consumer segment having a slightly higher cost of risk. I just wanted to understand a little bit where this cost of risk will come from?

我有一個關於你的風險成本的問題。它應該增加，對吧，按照你的指導？因此，如果您可以像您的預期一樣分享，也許您應該使用較低的 GDP，這基本上是預期損失模型更具懲罰性，如果您看到更令人擔憂的，如您提到的，消費者細分市場略高風險成本。我只是想稍微了解一下這種風險成本從何而來？

And I totally understand your margin expansion, right? So even with this cost of risk moving up, I guess your risk adjusted mean should still be fine this year. So like not super concerned, but just would like to understand why cost of risk is running above the historical level?

我完全理解你的利潤擴張，對吧？因此，即使風險成本上升，我猜你今年的風險調整均值應該還不錯。所以不太關心，只是想了解為什麼風險成本高於歷史水平？

And if I may, a second question somewhat related to the cost and revenue side. We are seeing a very strong margin expansion, right? Your guidance implying 50 to 100 bps margin expansion. So your NII this year, assuming your guidance for loan growth should easily increase 20-plus percent. And as you said, you are very cautious on your G&A. So why not, like -- again, you are discussing the cost to income guidance, I totally understand this. But shouldn't we not expect a much lower efficiency for you this year on the holding level, given your NII should be so strong?

如果可以的話，第二個問題與成本和收入方面有些相關。我們看到了非常強勁的利潤率擴張，對吧？您的指引暗示保證金擴張 50 到 100 個基點。所以你今年的 NII，假設你對貸款增長的指導應該很容易增加 20% 以上。正如您所說，您對 G&A 非常謹慎。那麼，為什麼不，就像——再次，你在討論收入指導的成本，我完全理解這一點。但是，考慮到您的 NII 應該如此強大，我們不應該期望您今年在控股水平上的效率會低得多嗎？

Yuri, thank you very much for your question. I'm actually going to pass it on to Michela. Yes, overall, I think she's going to go into details, but it's basically a mix change that we're seeing. Also, we are seeing low growth impacting all last year and will continue during the next year. It is expected to be around 2% or less for Peru this year. And inflation continues to be high. We are not seeing lots of investments coming from corporates or companies. So we do think it's going to be a slow year and that will have a toll in the Peruvian consumer and in Peruvian companies overall. So it's going to be a matter of both mix, consumer continue growing, but also deteriorating macro variables that will have an impact in the payment capacity of Peruvians.

尤里，非常感謝你的問題。我實際上要把它傳遞給 Michela。是的，總的來說，我認為她會詳細介紹，但這基本上是我們看到的混合變化。此外，我們看到去年全年都受到低增長的影響，並將在明年繼續。預計今年秘魯的增長率約為 2% 或更低。通貨膨脹繼續居高不下。我們沒有看到來自企業或公司的大量投資。因此，我們確實認為這將是緩慢的一年，這將對秘魯消費者和整個秘魯公司造成影響。因此，這將是一個混合問題，消費者繼續增長，但宏觀變量也會惡化，這將對秘魯人的支付能力產生影響。

You're taking off a very, very low -- lots of liquidity into the system in the last year because of what happened with the pension funds, the help from the government post-Covid and all that. That is also being taken out of the equation. So that will have a toll in Peruvian consumers and obviously, in the cost of risk. If you add to that, the political turmoil that we've witnessed recently, the closures of certain regions, the impact in the south of Peru where we have close to 12% to 14% of our portfolio. Then we have what is happening in the tourism industry, in the restaurant industry, in the transportation industry. It's a little bit tough to actually make right predictions, but everything obviously points to higher cost of risk, given everything that I've mentioned.

去年，由於養老基金發生的事情，政府在 Covid 之後的幫助等等，你的系統流動性非常非常低。這也被排除在外。因此，這將對秘魯消費者造成影響，而且顯然會帶來風險成本。如果再加上我們最近目睹的政治動盪，某些地區的關閉，以及對秘魯南部的影響，我們在那裡擁有接近 12% 至 14% 的投資組合。然後是旅遊業、餐飲業和交通業正在發生的事情。實際上做出正確的預測有點困難，但鑑於我所提到的一切，一切顯然都指向更高的風險成本。

And so maybe now I'm going to stop and pass it on to Michela to make a couple of precision of this if required and then to talk about the margin expansion and the impact of operator leverage that you asked. Michela?

因此，也許現在我要停下來並將其傳遞給 Michela，以便在需要時對此進行一些精確處理，然後討論您所要求的利潤率擴張和運營商槓桿的影響。米凱拉？

Maybe just a couple of additions to what Luis Felipe mentioned. In the comparison to 2019, okay, specifically why we are expecting a higher cost of risk in 2023 versus 2019, I mean first, already the mix when you compare it to 2019, putting together credit cards and personal loans, now it's already a little bit -- it's getting close a little bit higher than what it was 2019. But the other important component is that the riskiness within those 2 portfolios is higher than it was in 2019. Why? Not because at the very beginning, we wanted not to build it that way, but because of the sustained inflation, that is a big variable that we didn't have present in 2019. Actually, it was not even present in our expected loss models. We incorporated it. I think it was in the first quarter of 2022.

也許只是對 Luis Felipe 提到的內容的一些補充。與 2019 年相比，好吧，特別是為什麼我們預計 2023 年的風險成本比 2019 年更高，我的意思是首先，當你將它與 2019 年進行比較時，已經是組合，將信用卡和個人貸款放在一起，現在已經有點位——它比 2019 年的水平要高一點。但另一個重要的組成部分是這兩個投資組合中的風險比 2019 年要高。為什麼？不是因為一開始我們不想那樣做，而是因為持續的通貨膨脹，這是一個很大的變量，我們在 2019 年沒有出現。實際上，它甚至沒有出現在我們的預期損失模型中.我們合併了它。我認為是在 2022 年第一季度。

So I would say this is a big impact because the sustaining inflation has been there almost the full 2022, and this has started to have an impact. We anticipated it already. We saw something in the second quarter, in the third quarter, now it's even bigger. And on top of that, we have the disruption of the protest. So we have been doing in December and in January, some rescheduling trying to help clients to overcome this moment. And of course, everything we are doing now, we have some estimates of how that should improve over time in the next month, but I think that the impact is going to be felt and strong, especially in the first quarter. And how it evolves in the next quarters of the year, of course, will depend on what happens with the process and with the outcome.

所以我想說這是一個很大的影響，因為持續的通貨膨脹幾乎在整個 2022 年都存在，並且已經開始產生影響。我們已經預料到了。我們在第二季度、第三季度看到了一些東西，現在它更大了。最重要的是，我們有抗議活動的中斷。所以我們在 12 月和 1 月一直在做一些重新安排，試圖幫助客戶克服這個時刻。當然，我們現在所做的一切，我們對下個月隨著時間的推移應該如何改善有一些估計，但我認為影響將會被感受到並且很強烈，尤其是在第一季度。當然，它在今年下幾個季度的發展情況將取決於過程和結果會發生什麼。

Now everything that we are envisioning is on, I mean, on the light that the situation kind of normalize. Normalized meaning, let's say, controlled uncertainty. But this is what we have more or less in mind.

現在，我們所設想的一切都在，我的意思是，在情況有點正常化的情況下。比方說，規範化的意思是受控的不確定性。但這就是我們或多或少想到的。

Now moving on to efficiency. I mean, just to make it clear, what I am showing in the guidance now is only at the bank level. So the bank is the one that will have an efficiency ratio below 39%. That efficiency ratio for the full year for the bank was a little bit above 40%. And that is the result of this positive operating leverage. But what we are not able to show you yet, Yuri, is what will happen with IFS.

現在轉向效率。我的意思是，為了清楚起見，我現在在指南中展示的只是銀行層面的內容。因此，銀行是效率比低於 39% 的銀行。該銀行全年的效率比略高於 40%。這就是這種積極的經營槓桿的結果。但是，Yuri，我們還不能向您展示的是 IFS 將會發生什麼。

So basically, I mean, conceptually, I agree if there is a recovery of the revenues of Wealth Management, the bank grows nicely, Interseguro grows nicely, and payments continue to grow nicely. Revenues and the cost do not grow that much, there should be a positive impact. We just need to make sure that with IFRS 17, things do not move, not so the level and that the comparison, of course, is one that makes sense. So I mean, conceptually, I agree with you. We will have to check the numbers with the full impact of IFRS 17.

所以基本上，我的意思是，從概念上講，如果財富管理的收入恢復，銀行增長良好，Interseguro 增長良好，支付繼續良好增長，我同意。收入和成本不會增長那麼多，應該會有積極的影響。我們只需要確保在 IFRS 17 中，事情不會發生變化，水平不會發生變化，當然，比較是有意義的。所以我的意思是，從概念上講，我同意你的看法。我們將不得不在 IFRS 17 的全部影響下檢查這些數字。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Andres Soto with Santander.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自桑坦德銀行的安德烈斯索托。

My question is regarding the guidance that you are providing in terms of ROE. If you could help us break that down in terms of your different banking units. What are you expecting for -- sorry, I mean the general segment. What are you expecting for banking, insurance from management and payments?

我的問題是關於您在 ROE 方面提供的指導。如果您能幫助我們根據您的不同銀行部門將其分解。您期待什麼 - 對不起，我的意思是一般部分。您對銀行業、保險業的管理和支付有何期待？

Okay. That I'm going to pass on to Michela straight.

好的。我將直接傳遞給 Michela。

Okay, Andres. Here, I'm going to tell you in the medium term that we are expecting that some of them has slightly changed versus the past. But what we are expecting is, I mean, the bank to be between 18%-19%, we are expecting Interseguro to be around or a little bit above 20%. This, though, has a very big question mark because of IFRS 17, okay, because IFRS 17 has a strong impact also on the network of the insurance business. So that ROE might be higher, especially for 2023. So that one we will need to review during this conference call.

好的，安德烈斯。在這裡，我將在中期告訴你，我們預計其中一些與過去相比會略有變化。但我們的預期是，我的意思是，銀行將在 18%-19% 之間，我們預計 Interseguro 將在 20% 左右或略高於 20%。不過，由於 IFRS 17，這有一個非常大的問號，好吧，因為 IFRS 17 對保險業務網絡也有很大的影響。因此 ROE 可能會更高，尤其是 2023 年。因此我們需要在本次電話會議期間審查這一點。

Inteligo should be above 20%, the same as payments. So 18-19%, the bank, Wealth Management and payments above 20%, and we need to fine tune insurance. Having in mind that then when you put all those numbers together, there is a minus, let's say, on the total number of IFS, which is the holding, that has there some expenses, which include mainly the expenses, the (inaudible) for the dividends and some minor, let's say, operating expenses coupon of the $300 million bond that we issued for the acquisition of Sura. So a combination of the 4 subsidiaries plus the holding, it's what leads you to the around 18%.

Inteligo 應高於 20%，與付款相同。所以18-19%，銀行、財富管理和支付在20%以上，我們需要微調保險。請記住，當您將所有這些數字放在一起時，比方說，IFS 的總數有一個負數，即控股，有一些費用，主要包括費用，（聽不清）我們為收購 Sura 而發行的 3 億美元債券的股息和一些次要的運營費用息票。因此，這 4 家子公司加上控股公司的組合，就是導致您達到 18% 左右的原因。

Perfect. That's very clear, Michela. And I assume that the recovery in Wealth Management is driven by improved market performance. Can you please tell us a little bit about that portfolio, both for the insurance and Wealth Management? What is the duration? And what makes you -- what are the risk factors for this assumption for improvement of Wealth Management not to happen?

完美的。這很清楚，米歇拉。我認為財富管理的複蘇是由市場表現改善推動的。你能告訴我們一些關於保險和財富管理的投資組合嗎？持續時間是多少？是什麼讓你 - 這種改善財富管理的假設不會發生的風險因素是什麼？

And maybe I will pass it first to Bruno for Wealth Management and then to Goncalo for insurance.

也許我會先將其傳遞給 Bruno 進行財富管理，然後再傳遞給 Goncalo 進行保險。

Yes. So Inteligo, fixed income is about 65% of the portfolio. Duration of the portfolio today is between 4.5 and 5. What to expect? We think we're getting towards the latter end of the cycle with regards to rates. So that should be beneficial for the portfolio. We've already seen in late last year, December and beginning of this year, fixed income portfolios recovering nicely. And then so that should be positive. And again, well hopefully, volatility will come down on the equity side as well. So it should be a much better year we hope for the investment in the portfolio on the Wealth Management side.

是的。所以 Inteligo，固定收益約佔投資組合的 65%。今天投資組合的持續時間在 4.5 到 5 之間。會發生什麼？我們認為我們正在接近利率週期的後期。所以這應該對投資組合有利。我們已經在去年年底、12 月和今年年初看到固定收益投資組合恢復良好。然後這應該是積極的。同樣，希望股票方面的波動性也會下降。因此，我們希望對財富管理方面的投資組合進行投資，今年應該會好得多。

Okay. So with regards to Intersegula, around 80% of our portfolio is fixed income. The rest is divided evenly between equity and real estate. And with regards to the fixed income portfolio, we are actually hedged both in terms of duration and currency with our liabilities. Remember, we sell long-term liabilities in the form of annuities. And they have a duration of around 13-14, which more or less matches the duration of our portfolio, our fixed income portfolio.

好的。因此，就 Intersegula 而言，我們大約 80% 的投資組合是固定收益。其餘的在股權和房地產之間平分。關於固定收益投資組合，我們實際上在期限和貨幣方面都與我們的負債進行了對沖。請記住，我們以年金的形式出售長期負債。它們的持續時間約為 13-14，這或多或少與我們的投資組合（我們的固定收益投資組合）的持續時間相匹配。

Your next question is a follow-up from Yuri Fernandes with JPMorgan.

你的下一個問題是來自摩根大通的 Yuri Fernandes 的跟進。

Just regarding refinancing loans, I guess, Michela mentioned, being more active and we heard this from other banks. How the provision works for refinanced loans? Like you use to migrate to Stage 2, Stage 3? Like if you had to move some loans to that, like how should we think about provisions for refinanced loans?

關於再融資貸款，我想，Michela 提到，更加積極，我們從其他銀行那裡聽到了這一點。該準備金如何用於再融資貸款？就像您過去遷移到第 2 階段、第 3 階段一樣？比如如果你不得不將一些貸款轉移到那裡，比如我們應該如何考慮再融資貸款的準備金？

Michela?

米凱拉？

Yes, let me take that. Yuri, I mean actually, under IFRS, these clients, some of them already had a significant increase in their risk profile. So they were already on Stage 2. So the fact that we have rescheduled them on some sense is not impacting now provisions, of course, if they, at the end, pay. So what we need to see is the behavior of the refinance clients because the portion of them that then may not pay, of course, they will go to Stage 3 and require more provisions.

是的，讓我接受。 Yuri，我的意思是，實際上，根據 IFRS，這些客戶中的一些人的風險狀況已經顯著增加。所以他們已經在第 2 階段。所以我們在某種意義上重新安排他們的事實不會影響現在的規定，當然，如果他們最終付款的話。所以我們需要看到的是再融資客戶的行為，因為他們中的那部分人可能不會支付，當然，他們將進入第 3 階段並需要更多準備金。

But I would say that a big portion of them were already on Stage 2. And then we also have the impact of forward-looking and the expert criteria that we have in the consumer portfolio. Specifically, that is kind of a buffer not to cover some of those clients who might not pay those reschedules. Now, I mean, the volumes that we have rescheduled during December and January, of course, are bigger compared to what we were doing in the monthly figures of 2022. That are very far away from what we did in COVID. We're talking different dimensions now because this is kind of more, I mean, localized north, south of the country and some other clients. So there is an impact, but it shouldn't be as big if things go back to normal, let's say.

但我要說的是，他們中的很大一部分已經進入第二階段。然後我們在消費者組合中也有前瞻性和專家標準的影響。具體來說，這是一種緩衝，不包括一些可能不會支付重新安排費用的客戶。現在，我的意思是，與我們在 2022 年的月度數據中所做的相比，我們在 12 月和 1 月重新安排的數量當然更大。這與我們在 COVID 中所做的相去甚遠。我們現在談論的是不同的維度，因為這更多，我的意思是，本地化的北部、南部和其他一些客戶。所以有影響，但如果事情恢復正常，影響應該不會那麼大，比方說。

Our next question comes from Juan Recalde with Scotiabank.

我們的下一個問題來自加拿大豐業銀行的 Juan Recalde。

My question is related to the loans to SMEs. So we saw a very strong growth in terms of SME loans divestments growing more than 100% year-on-year. So the question there is related to, so what part of this growth is related to Izipay? And the second question related to this would be looking forward, should we expect acceleration? And what kind of growth should we expect for SME loans in 2023?

我的問題與中小企業貸款有關。因此，我們看到中小企業貸款撤資的增長非常強勁，同比增長超過 100%。所以這裡的問題是相關的，那麼這種增長的哪一部分與 Izipay 相關？與此相關的第二個問題是展望未來，我們應該期待加速嗎？我們應該期待 2023 年中小企業貸款有什麼樣的增長？

Thanks, Juan, for your question. Yes, we've grown very nicely in SMEs during the last year. Remember that we are coming from a very, very small market share of around 2.5%-3%. So plenty of room there. As you recall, we participated very actively in Reactiva for this type of customers. So we were able to get connections and get to know them better, enhance our models and the whole freedom around participating in Rectiva for SMEs way beyond our natural market share.

胡安，謝謝你的問題。是的，去年我們在中小企業中的發展非常好。請記住，我們的市場份額非常非常小，約為 2.5%-3%。那裡有足夠的空間。您還記得，我們非常積極地為這類客戶參與了 Reactiva。因此，我們能夠建立聯繫並更好地了解他們，增強我們的模型以及參與 Rectiva 的中小企業的整體自由度，遠遠超出我們的自然市場份額。

Those loans have been going through their course, guaranteed by the government, but we've been able to capture some customers, clients there. And that's the result of what you've seen last year, and we expect that to continue in the coming months as well. Although we have been a little bit shy in the last couple of months, given the current situation in Peru. None of them come from Izipay. That's still a small project that we have there. We have a couple of pilots, but basically not significant yet.

這些貸款一直在進行中，由政府擔保，但我們已經能夠吸引到一些客戶，那裡的客戶。這就是你去年看到的結果，我們預計未來幾個月也會繼續如此。考慮到秘魯目前的情況，過去幾個月我們有點害羞。它們都不是來自 Izipay。那仍然是我們在那裡的一個小項目。我們有幾個試點，但基本上還不是很重要。

In terms of what we would expect for next year is something similar to what we did last year in terms of overall disbursements.

就我們對明年的預期而言，與我們去年在總體支出方面所做的類似。

At this time, we will take the webcast questions. I will now turn the call over to InspIR Group.

屆時，我們將進行網絡直播問題。我現在將把電話轉給 InspIR Group。

Thank you, operator. We have some questions from the webcast. The first question is coming from Greg Mitchell from ABP Ventures. There are 2 questions here.

謝謝你，運營商。我們有一些來自網絡廣播的問題。第一個問題來自 ABP Ventures 的 Greg Mitchell。這裡有2個問題。

Can you please discuss how the efficiencies of less retail branches has led to efficiencies in headcount? And the second question is, can you share how the structure of your organizational chart will evolve as you move towards the 2-tier digital strategy and incorporate new types of employees?

您能否討論一下減少零售分支機構的效率如何導致員工效率提高？第二個問題是，您能否分享一下您的組織結構圖結構將如何隨著您轉向 2 層數字化戰略並吸收新型員工而演變？

It's a great question, actually. Let's see -- roughly, let's go through numbers. In Interbank, we got to a point where we had close to 7,300 or 7,400 employees. Today, we're operating with around 6,000 employees. So that's the direct impact in there of efficiency. However, it's not that every branch that would close gets away people. We are hiring new people like for our call centers. Again, the digital model brings in places where you need to reinforce your relationship with customers, but that's all in all the numbers, around 1,200 less employees than what we had when we had the whole branch network.

實際上，這是一個很好的問題。讓我們看看——粗略地說，讓我們看一下數字。在 Interbank，我們達到了擁有近 7,300 或 7,400 名員工的地步。今天，我們擁有大約 6,000 名員工。這就是效率的直接影響。但是，並不是每個關閉的分支機構都會帶走人們。我們正在為我們的呼叫中心招聘新人。同樣，數字模型帶來了您需要加強與客戶關係的地方，但這就是所有數字，與我們擁有整個分支網絡時相比，我們的員工人數減少了大約 1,200 人。

And then the organizational chart, that's a fascinating question. We are currently operating under like, let's say, 2 types of organizational checks. The normal, the one that everybody knows, the ones that we still need to see because it (inaudible) We've been deploying an agile methodology of working throughout the organization. So we have that type of organization inside our organization. We are deploying more this into other areas. We started by technology. We expanded from technology to digital then to retail, and we continue to expand that. Now we're connecting with risk management and others.

然後是組織結構圖，這是一個有趣的問題。我們目前正在運行，比方說，2 種類型的組織檢查。正常的，每個人都知道的，我們仍然需要看到的，因為它（聽不清）我們一直在部署一種在整個組織中工作的敏捷方法。所以我們的組織內部有這種類型的組織。我們正在將更多的部署到其他領域。我們從技術開始。我們從技術擴展到數字，然後擴展到零售，並且我們繼續擴展它。現在我們正在與風險管理和其他方面聯繫。

Actually, we have a project called Agility at Scale that we are starting to deploy for this year. And then there we are operating based on agile sales, agile teams, tribes and all that. You take a look, hopefully, we will resemble more Spotify in terms of the way they operate than (inaudible). That comes with giving the new talent more empowerment, more responsibilities, the ability to take away high vertical structures and all that to become a much more lean organization.

實際上，我們有一個名為 Agility at Scale 的項目，我們將在今年開始部署。然後我們的運營基於敏捷銷售、敏捷團隊、部落等等。你看一下，希望我們在運營方式方面比（聽不清）更像 Spotify。隨之而來的是賦予新人才更多的權力、更多的責任、取消高垂直結構的能力以及所有這些，以成為一個更加精簡的組織。

Luckily, the culture that Interbank was very flexible, not very bureaucratic. So this is helping us go through the transformation. It is a challenge because, again, (inaudible) but we're moving towards agility and scale if you want throughout our operations. So I hope this answered your question, but if you want like send me an e-mail, we can get a coffee and discuss this and I know it's probably one of your passions as well.

幸運的是，Interbank 的文化非常靈活，不是很官僚。所以這有助於我們完成轉型。這是一個挑戰，因為，（聽不清）但如果您希望在我們的整個運營過程中，我們正在朝著敏捷性和規模化邁進。所以我希望這能回答你的問題，但如果你想給我發一封電子郵件，我們可以喝杯咖啡討論這個，我知道這可能也是你的愛好之一。

We have another question from (inaudible) from Prima AFP. When is -- when will the interoperability PLIN-Yape take place? What kind of services are allowed to offer through the interoperability?

我們有來自 Prima AFP 的（聽不清）另一個問題。互操作性 PLIN-Yape 何時會發生？通過互操作性允許提供什麼樣的服務？

Well, thanks very much. That's widely known in the news. But I'm going to pass it to Carlos so he can answer that.

嗯，非常感謝。這在新聞中廣為人知。但我會把它傳遞給卡洛斯，這樣他就可以回答這個問題。

The interoperability will be starting in April. And initially, it will be just P2P transfers. There will be a second phase later in the year, we're -- and the April interoperability will be between PLIN and Yape. And then in June, July, every bank should be able to interoperate through a cell phone. But most -- well, most clients are already here in Yape or PLIN, so it shouldn't be a big change. And then the next phase is QR codes. You will be able to read QR codes from each other, that should be starting July. So that's kind of the -- that's the interoperability. There's no other services -- talk about interoperability.

互操作性將於 4 月開始。最初，它只是 P2P 傳輸。今年晚些時候將有第二階段，我們 - 4 月的互操作性將在 PLIN 和 Yape 之間進行。然後在 6 月、7 月，每家銀行都應該能夠通過手機進行互操作。但大多數 - 好吧，大多數客戶已經在 Yape 或 PLIN 中，所以這應該不會有太大變化。然後下一階段是二維碼。你們將能夠相互讀取二維碼，這應該從 7 月開始。這就是 - 這就是互操作性。沒有其他服務——談論互操作性。

The next question comes from Daniel Merida from Diviso Bolsa. Could you consider some extraordinary dividends or maybe a buyback program during 2023?

下一個問題來自 Diviso Bolsa 的 Daniel Merida。您能否考慮在 2023 年期間派發一些特別的股息或回購計劃？

Daniel, I'll answer your question and talk also about guidance and ROE for next year and where our stock is trading now. We're always looking at ways to enhance shareholder value. The first (inaudible) is executing our strategy and making sure IFS growth based on core strategic pillars, that's what we're doing. Then in terms of extraordinary dividend or buyback, we're always analyzing that. We have -- we're not -- we have not taken any decision. It's obviously under (inaudible) when we see where the stock trades and the opportunities that that brings. Obviously, you have to go by the book thing, but not so far, that's not under discussion or review, although we usually take a look at different alternatives.

丹尼爾，我將回答你的問題，並討論明年的指導和 ROE 以及我們股票現在的交易地點。我們一直在尋找提高股東價值的方法。第一個（聽不清）是執行我們的戰略並確保 IFS 增長基於核心戰略支柱，這就是我們正在做的事情。然後就特別股息或回購而言，我們一直在分析。我們已經——我們沒有——我們還沒有做出任何決定。當我們看到股票交易的位置以及由此帶來的機會時，它顯然處於（聽不清）之下。顯然，您必須按照書本的事情去做，但到目前為止還沒有，這還沒有在討論或審查中，儘管我們通常會考慮不同的替代方案。

The next question is coming from Fabrizio Enrique Lavalle from Profuturo AFP.

下一個問題來自 Profuturo AFP 的 Fabrizio Enrique Lavalle。

Given the most -- given the Central Bank recently stopped hiking rates, how much time do you expect NIM to still be increasing? And how much lag is there between rate hikes and NIM expansion?

鑑於最多 - 鑑於中央銀行最近停止加息，您預計 NIM 在多長時間內仍會增加？加息和淨息差擴張之間有多少滯後？

Okay. Let me take a crack and then maybe Michela can complement. Remember that one of the reasons NIM is expanding is because of the switch in the mix. Again, COVID hit us very hard in terms of the evolution of our consumer book, and that's growing nicely, and we expect that to continue. That will have a toll in our NIM composition. And then the other part will be the increase in rates. We really don't know if this post that Michela mentioned where it will take the Central Bank. It might really pause or it could regain in terms of traction for further rates. All depends on how inflation happens or not. But let me pass it on to Michela to see if she has a little bit more color in terms of the timing.

好的。讓我試一試，然後也許 Michela 可以補充。請記住，NIM 擴展的原因之一是混合中的轉換。再次，COVID 在我們的消費者書籍的演變方面給我們帶來了沉重打擊，而且增長良好，我們希望這種情況會繼續下去。這將對我們的 NIM 組合產生影響。然後另一部分將是利率的增加。我們真的不知道 Michela 提到的這篇文章是否會將中央銀行帶到何處。它可能真的會暫停，或者它可能會重新獲得進一步利率的牽引力。一切都取決於通貨膨脹如何發生。但是讓我把它傳遞給 Michela，看看她在時機方面是否有更多的色彩。

Fabricio, I mean, first of all, have in mind that what we're expecting for 2023 is that rates will continue to be high at least in the first half of the year. And at some point, they will start to decrease, depending on which estimates you see. It can be the third quarter or it can be in the fourth quarter. What we have seen in the past -- and you can see it in the evolution of NIM -- NIM has improved, I mean, substantially during last year, but it is just a fraction of the increase in rates that you've seen. We've had during 2022, more than 500 basis points increase in soles and also a very big number in dollars. And the increase in NIM is just a fraction of that.

Fabricio，我的意思是，首先要記住，我們對 2023 年的預期是利率將至少在今年上半年繼續保持高位。在某個時候，它們將開始減少，具體取決於您看到的估計值。可以是第三節，也可以是第四節。我們過去所看到的——你可以在 NIM 的演變中看到——NIM 在去年有了很大的改善，但這只是你所看到的利率增長的一小部分。到 2022 年，鞋底增加了 500 多個基點，美元也增加了很多。 NIM 的增加只是其中的一小部分。

Why is that? It's because, of course, you can reprice a portion of the portfolio with the new disbursement, but not the stock. And the same happens with the liability side, where the repricing actually it's a little bit faster. So for 2023, we are expecting still NIM to improve because the full year effect of what has taken place in the increasing rates in 2022 will become or will materialize in the numbers during 2023. And that is a very big number.

這是為什麼？這是因為，當然，你可以用新的支出重新定價投資組合的一部分，而不是股票。責任方面也是如此，重新定價實際上要快一點。因此，對於 2023 年，我們預計 NIM 仍會有所改善，因為 2022 年利率上升所產生的全年影響將在 2023 年的數字中實現或實現。這是一個非常大的數字。

And then if we have the decreases in rates in the second half of the year, we will start to see some impacts, first, in the cost of funds because of the portion of institutional deposits, and then just after that in the asset side. Maybe a little bit faster on the commercial banking side, but it will take some more time for the rates on the retail banking to go down with the reference rate. I hope that helps.

然後，如果下半年利率下降，我們將開始看到一些影響，首先是由於機構存款部分對資金成本的影響，然後是資產方面的影響。商業銀行方面可能會快一點，但零售銀行的利率需要更多時間才能與參考利率一起下降。我希望這有幫助。

The last question comes from Daniel Mora from CrediCorp Capital. What would be the strategy of loan growth in 2023 considering the uncertainty and economic deceleration? Do you expect to continue growing strongly in credit cards despite the risk of higher NPLs? What is the guidance of credit card loan growth in 2023 and expectations of NPLs in this year?

最後一個問題來自 CrediCorp Capital 的 Daniel Mora。考慮到不確定性和經濟減速，2023 年的貸款增長策略是什麼？儘管存在更高不良貸款的風險，您是否預計信用卡業務會繼續強勁增長？ 2023年信用卡貸款增速指引和今年不良貸款預期如何？

And the next question is, can you provide further details regarding the contraction in annuities during the quarter? and what could be the outlook for the different insurance products in 2023?

下一個問題是，您能否提供有關本季度年金收縮的更多詳細信息？ 2023 年不同保險產品的前景如何？

Let's see. Do we expect to continue growing credit cards? Yes, we do expect to continue growing both in our consumer book. Obviously, at a more moderate pace than we've witnessed during the last year because part of the growth of last year was a recomposition of our whole book customers that because of the situation during COVID, just decrease their outstanding balances, and we've been recouping that.

讓我們來看看。我們是否期望繼續增長信用卡？是的，我們確實希望在我們的消費者賬簿中繼續增長。顯然，增長速度比我們去年看到的要緩和，因為去年的部分增長是我們整個賬簿客戶的重組，由於 COVID 期間的情況，只是減少了他們的未結餘額，我們已經一直在收回那個。

Actually, as you are aware, we've been more disciplined in terms of cutting, underwriting or improving underwriting standards. And that has a toll in growth, especially for the second half of the year, and we expect that to continue. So probably, we'll continue growing as a guidance provided by Michela, low double digits in terms of that. And the guidance on cost of risk is there. We do expect, given the situation, cost of risk improvement bit and also NPLs following that path as well.

實際上，如您所知，我們在削減、承保或提高承保標準方面更加嚴格。這會對增長造成影響，尤其是在今年下半年，我們預計這種情況將持續下去。因此，我們可能會繼續增長，作為 Michela 提供的指導，就此而言，低兩位數。那裡有關於風險成本的指導。鑑於這種情況，我們確實預計風險改善成本以及不良貸款也會遵循該路徑。

For the second part of your question, let me pass it on to Gonzalo so he can talk about annuities.

對於問題的第二部分，讓我將其傳遞給 Gonzalo，以便他可以談論年金。

Sure, thanks. Okay. Regarding annuities, first of all, let's remember that right now, since -- in the last 5 years, most of annuities are related to the disability and survival benefits kind of annuities. Retirement annuities are practically nonexistent after the 95.5 low, which allow people to withdraw their funds from the AFP when they reach retirement. So right now, it's mostly disability or survival benefits.

當然，謝謝。好的。關於年金，首先，讓我們記住現在，因為在過去 5 年中，大部分年金都與殘障和生存福利年金有關。退休年金在 95.5 低點之後幾乎不存在，這允許人們在退休時從 AFP 中提取資金。所以現在，它主要是殘疾或生存福利。

What happened in 2020 and 2021 was that that market increased significantly because of the increase in death rates in the country due to COVID. So what we're seeing this year is that the annuities market is going down back to normal to what we had in 2019. So we expect a level similar to what we had in that year.

2020 年和 2021 年發生的事情是，由於 COVID 導致該國死亡率上升，該市場顯著增長。因此，我們今年看到的是，年金市場正在回落到 2019 年的正常水平。因此，我們預計年金市場的水平將與當年相似。

Now right now, it's been discussed the further retirements from the AFPs. We are not sure yet how this might impact or if it's going to impact the disability or survivor benefits insurance. But again, because we already have no annuities sold for retirement, that part of the business is not impacted.

現在，已經討論了 AFP 的進一步退休問題。我們還不確定這會產生怎樣的影響，或者它是否會影響殘疾或倖存者福利保險。但同樣，因為我們已經沒有為退休而出售的年金，所以這部分業務沒有受到影響。

Now with our other products, life insurance, bank assurance and digital products, they are -- we expect to continue very high growth that we have seen last year. We're talking about our digit growth, and we expect that to continue. We haven't found any de-acceleration in any of those products.

現在，我們的其他產品、人壽保險、銀行保險和數字產品——我們預計將繼續保持去年的高速增長。我們正在談論我們的數字增長，我們希望這種增長能夠繼續下去。我們還沒有發現任何這些產品有任何減速效果。

Great. Thank you, Gonzalo.

偉大的。謝謝你，貢薩洛。

At this time, I'm showing no further questions. I would like to turn the call over to the operator.

目前，我沒有進一步提問。我想把電話轉給接線員。

There appears to be no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the floor back over to Mrs. Casassa for any closing remarks.

目前似乎沒有進一步的問題。我想把發言權轉回給 Casassa 女士，讓她發表任何結束語。

Okay. Just to thank you again, everybody, for participating to this call, and we will see each other again on our first quarter 2023 conference call. Bye.

好的。再次感謝大家參加這次電話會議，我們將在 2023 年第一季度的電話會議上再次見面。再見。

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連接。