Ichor Holdings Ltd (ICHR) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon.

午安.

And thank you for joining today's fourth quarter and fiscal year 2024 conference call.

感謝您參加今天的 2024 財年第四季和年度電話會議。

As you read our earning's press release and as you listen to this conference call, please recognize that both contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws.

當您閱讀我們的收益新聞稿並聆聽本次電話會議時，請注意兩者都包含聯邦證券法含義內的前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond our control, and which could cause actual results to differ materially from such statements.

這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定因素的影響，其中許多是我們無法控制的，並且可能會導致實際結果與這些陳述有重大差異。

These risks and uncertainties include those spelled out in our earnings press release, those described in our annual report on form 10-K for fiscal year 2023 and those described in subsequent filings with the SEC.

這些風險和不確定性包括我們的收益新聞稿中所述的風險和不確定性、我們 2023 財年 10-K 表年度報告中所述的風險和不確定性以及隨後向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所述的風險和不確定性。

You should consider all forward-looking statements in light of those and other risks and uncertainties.

您應該根據這些以及其他風險和不確定性考慮所有前瞻性陳述。

Additionally, we will be providing certain non-GAAP financial measures during this conference call.

此外，我們將在本次電話會議中提供某些非公認會計準則財務指標。

Our earning's press release and the financial supplement posted to our IR website.

我們的收益新聞稿和財務補充資料已發佈在我們的 IR 網站上。

Each provide a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most comparable GAAP financial measures.

每家公司都提供了這些非 GAAP 財務指標與最具可比性的 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表。

On the call with me today are Jeffrey Andreson, our CEO; and Greg Swyt, our CFO.

今天與我一起通話的有我們的執行長 Jeffrey Andreson；以及我們的財務長 Greg Swyt。

Jeff will begin with an update on our business.

傑夫將首先介紹我們的業務進展。

And then, Greg will provide additional details about our results and guidance.

然後，格雷格將提供有關我們的結果和指導的更多詳細資訊。

After the prepared remarks, we will open the line for questions.

準備好的發言結束後，我們將開放提問專線。

I'll now turn over the call to Jeff Andreson.

我現在將電話轉給傑夫安德森。

Jeff?

傑夫？

Thank you, Claire.

謝謝你，克萊爾。

And welcome everyone to our Q4 earning's call.

歡迎大家參加我們的第四季財報電話會議。

Thanks for joining us today.

感謝您今天加入我們。

On today's call, I will briefly recap our year-end results, provide an update on our current outlook, and review our progress, qualifying our proprietary products.

在今天的電話會議上，我將簡要回顧我們的年終業績，提供我們當前前景的最新情況，並回顧我們的進展，並確認我們的專有產品。

We also discussed some of the gross margin headwinds that impacted our Q4 results and our margin expansion strategies ahead for 2025.

我們也討論了影響我們第四季業績的一些毛利率阻力以及我們 2025 年的利潤擴張策略。

On the top line, our growth accelerated in Q4, with $233 million in revenue exceeding our expectations, going into the quarter.

就營收而言，我們的成長在第四季度加速，本季的營收達到 2.33 億美元，超出了我們的預期。

Revenues were up 10% sequentially, after roughly six-straight quarters of revenues, hovering at the $200 million level.

在連續約六個季度的營收後，營收季增 10%，徘徊在 2 億美元的水平。

As a result, the year ended modestly stronger than expected with 10% growth in the second half.

因此，今年下半年的經濟成長略強於預期，達到 10%。

And total revenues of $849 million of 5% from 2023.

從 2023 年起，總收入將達到 8.49 億美元，成長 5%。

Customer demand continued to strengthen throughout the fourth quarter, requiring our weekly build rates to ramp significantly to levels that began to require additional resources.

在整個第四季度，客戶需求持續增強，要求我們的每週建造率大幅提升到開始需要額外資源的水平。

We believe this higher level of demand is indicative of a strong year ahead for our primary applications of edge and CBD with broad-based demand strength, continuing from both the advanced logic and the DRAM markets in the beginning of a recovery in man-technology investments.

我們相信，這種更高水準的需求預示著我們的主要邊緣和 CBD 應用在未來一年將表現強勁，具有廣泛的需求強度，在人力技術投資復甦的初期，先進邏輯和 DRAM 市場都將延續這種趨勢。

With Q4 revenues, finally indicating the inflection point for more meaningful growth ahead, after a prolonged downturn in etch and deposition, we added significant machining resources in Q4 to address the increase in demand for both our build to print and our internally developed machine products.

第四季的收入終於預示著未來更有意義的成長的拐點，在蝕刻和沈積業務長期低迷之後，我們在第四季度增加了大量加工資源，以滿足對我們的按圖製造和內部開發的機器產品日益增長的需求。

Additionally, in preparation for increasing proprietary content, as we cut these components into our gas panel builds, we are building stocking levels to support our gas panel integrate sites.

此外，為了準備增加專有內容，當我們將這些組件放入我們的燃氣面板構造中時，我們正在建立庫存水準以支援我們的燃氣面板整合網站。

These resources are critical to support not only the top line growth for our business.

這些資源不僅對於支持我們業務的營收成長至關重要。

But also, the increasing component content that we can supply internally, an important part of our gross margin expansion story.

而且，我們內部可供應的零件內容不斷增加，這也是我們毛利率擴張的重要組成部分。

The gross margin headwinds in Q4 reflect the higher direct labor costs, which were not fully absorbed within the quarter, largely due to a longer than expected training process.

第四季的毛利率阻力反映了更高的直接勞動力成本，該成本未能在本季度內完全吸收，主要是由於培訓過程比預期的要長。

We expect the residual impact of these higher labor costs to carry somewhat into the first quarter.

我們預計勞動成本上漲的殘餘影響將在一定程度上延續到第一季。

But as Greg will discuss in his remarks, the vast majority of the labor and inventory charges that impacted for gross margin were unique to the fourth quarter.

但正如格雷格在發言中討論的那樣，影響毛利率的絕大部分勞動力和庫存費用都是第四季特有的。

So as we look ahead to 2025, I'll first reflect on the momentum that has been building over the last few quarters in advance of what we expect will be a solid growth year for Ichor, within an increasingly positive mix profile, emerging for fab equipment demand, principally a higher mix of edge and deposition.

因此，當我們展望 2025 年時，我首先會回顧過去幾個季度以來的發展勢頭，我們預計 Ichor 將會迎來穩健的增長年，在日益積極的產品組合狀況下，對晶圓廠設備的需求將不斷增加，主要是邊緣和沈積產品的混合比例更高。

You may recall that our visibility for growth and an inflection point in our revenue run rate, improved significantly between our Q2 and Q3 earnings' calls.

您可能還記得，我們​​的成長可見度和營收運行率的轉折點在第二季和第三季財報電話會議之間得到了顯著改善。

While the debate over WFE growth in 2025 intensified, we were talking about the beginning of an upgrade investment cycle for

雖然關於 2025 年 WFE 成長的爭論愈演愈烈，但我們正在談論升級投資週期的開始

[NAN].

[NAN]。

We were talking about an increase in action deposition intensity, boosted in large part by the additional process steps required by advanced logic devices migrating to gate all around architectures.

我們正在討論動作沉積強度的增加，這在很大程度上是由於先進邏輯設備遷移到閘極全覆蓋架構所需的額外製程步驟所致。

We also talked about how the expected slowdown in WFE spending in China was a favorable mix shift, setting up a strong environment for the US OEMs to outperform overall WFE.

我們也討論了中國 WFE 支出預期放緩如何成為有利的組合轉變，為美國 OEM 超越整體 WFE 創造了強勁的環境。

And while the evolving WFE demand environment did in fact result in lower quarterly build rates for our Litho and Silicon Carbide businesses.

儘管不斷變化的WFE需求環境確實導致我們的光刻和碳化矽業務的季度產量下降。

As we move through 2024, we also talked about how our participation in advanced packaging and high bandwidth memory through our chemical delivery business has largely offset these pockets of weakening demand.

隨著我們進入 2024 年，我們還討論瞭如何透過我們的化學品交付業務參與先進封裝和高頻寬內存，在很大程度上抵消了這些需求疲軟的領域。

As we indicated by webcast in January, we believe this inflection point in our revenues is not a one or two quarter phenomenon.

正如我們在一月份的網路廣播中所指出的那樣，我們認為我們收入的這一拐點不是一個或兩個季度的現象。

We are investing appropriately for the growth ahead.

我們正在為未來的成長進行適當的投資。

In fact, demand has continued to strengthen quarter to date.

事實上，本季迄今，需求持續增強。

And we are very pleased today to be raising the high end of the range of our revenue forecast for Q1.

今天，我們非常高興地上調了第一季的營收預測範圍上限。

As we have gained clarity into the various margin impacts for Q1, we can also increase our gross margin outlook for the quarter.

由於我們清楚地了解了第一季各種利潤率的影響，我們也可以上調本季的毛利率預期。

And even more importantly, for the full year, we expect continued gross margin improvement throughout 2025, given our visibility for continued strong customer demand and increasing content from proprietary components.

更重要的是，鑑於我們對持續強勁的客戶需求和專有組件內容的不斷增加的預見，我們預計 2025 年全年毛利率將繼續改善。

We believe the company can generate flow through of 25% to 30% or more, enabling us to deliver gross margins in the 15% to 16% range by Q2 and exceeding 16% for 2025.

我們相信該公司可以產生 25% 至 30% 或更高的流轉，使我們能夠在第二季度實現 15% 至 16% 的毛利率，並在 2025 年超過 16%。

Even on modest revenue gains beyond Q1, which brings me to an update on our progress, qualifying both our proprietary components for our existing gas panels, as well as our next generation gas panel.

即使第一季以後的收入有所增長，我也了解到了我們的進展情況，使我們現有的燃氣面板和下一代燃氣面板的專有組件都獲得認證。

We have made steady progress in closing additional component qualifications over the past quarter.

過去一個季度，我們在完成額外組件認證方面取得了穩步進展。

And we'll be cutting these components into our manufacturing pipeline in Q1.

我們將在第一季將這些組件納入我們的製造流程。

We expect growth in our new products this year, will be a key driver for margin expansion for Ichor in 2025.

我們預計今年新產品的成長將成為 2025 年 Ichor 利潤擴大的主要驅動力。

I'll start with our new component products.

我將從我們的新組件產品開始。

We are very pleased to announce today that our high purity valves were qualified at a second customer in Q4.

今天我們非常高興地宣布，我們的高純度閥門在第四季度獲得了第二位客戶的認可。

And we are currently progressing through qualification at a third customer.

目前，我們正在為第三個客戶進行資格認證。

We continue to make progress, qualifying our proprietary fittings which are components used in our welding business.

我們不斷取得進步，使我們的專有配件（即我們焊接業務中使用的組件）獲得認證。

With our two largest customers already qualified, we are in the final stages of our third qualification.

我們的兩個最大客戶已經獲得資格，目前我們正處於第三個資格認證的最後階段。

All three of our process tool customers have already qualified.

我們所有三家工藝工具客戶均已獲得資格。

Our substrates used in our gas panels.

我們的氣體面板中使用的基材。

These are all critical components used in the existing gas panels that we assemble, as well as our next-generation gas panel.

這些都是我們組裝的現有燃氣面板以及下一代燃氣面板中使用的關鍵部件。

These components will continue to ramp in volume as we cut them into our manufacturing pipeline.

隨著我們將這些組件納入生產流程，其產量將繼續增加。

Now, moving to our next generation gas panel.

現在，轉到我們的下一代氣體面板。

As discussed last quarter, we delivered more than 50 of our next generation gas panels during 2024.

正如上個季度所討論的那樣，我們將在 2024 年交付 50 多個下一代天然氣面板。

We achieved initial customer or OEM qualifications on four applications last year.

去年，我們在四個應用程式上獲得了初始客戶或 OEM 資格。

And many of the next-generation panels that we have, delivered in 2024 are part of a qualification process with the end-device manufacturer, which are continuing into 2025.

我們在 2024 年交付的許多下一代面板都是與終端設備製造商進行資格認證流程的一部分，該流程將持續到 2025 年。

The timing of these qualifications is being worked between our customer and their customer.

這些資格認證的時間安排由我們的客戶和他們的客戶共同商定。

And in 2025, we expect additional qualifications to follow.

我們預計到 2025 年，將會有更多的資格要求。

We are also now engaged on two additional applications beyond the [four] we discussed previously.

除了之前討論過的 [四個] 應用之外，我們現在還在致力於另外兩個應用。

The key takeaway as it relates to our proprietary content strategy is that we expect to supply an increasing proportion of our bill of materials with internally developed products, whether they're passive components that we no longer have to purchase for build-to-print gas panels, all the way up to our fully proprietary next-generation gas panel.

與我們的專有內容策略相關的關鍵點是，我們希望透過內部開發的產品來提供越來越多的物料清單，無論它們是不再需要為按圖生產燃氣面板購買的被動元件，還是我們完全專有的下一代燃氣面板。

While these internally developed and manufactured products have required a meaningful investment by Ichor, most of the incremental R&D investments are behind us.

雖然這些內部開發和製造的產品需要 Ichor 進行大量投資，但大多數增量研發投資都已經過去了。

And our labor force is now in place to address higher levels of customer demand and accelerate our gross-margin expansion strategies as we move through 2025.

現在，我們的勞動力已經到位，可以滿足更高水準的客戶需求，並在 2025 年加速我們的毛利率擴張策略。

To summarize, our expectations of industry spending dynamics.

總結一下，我們對產業支出動態的預期。

The mix shifts of investment priorities in the coming year are on all, very positive for Ichor's business.

未來一年投資重點的組合轉變對 Ichor 的業務非常有利。

And regardless of the magnitude of WFE growth expected for 2025, we are confident in our ability to outperform the growth in WFE this year.

而且無論 2025 年預計的 WFE 成長幅度如何，我們都相信我們有能力超越今年的 WFE 成長。

Likewise, we are confident in our ability to demonstrate strong flow through and deliver continued expansion of our gross margin profile as we enjoy a more robust customer demand environment while steadily incorporating an increasing share of proprietary products into our production flow.

同樣，我們有信心，隨著我們享受更加強勁的客戶需求環境，同時穩步將越來越多的專有產品納入我們的生產流程，我們有能力展示強勁的流通量並持續擴大我們的毛利率。

With that, I'll turn it over to Greg, recap our Q4 results and provide further details around our financial outlook.

接下來，我將把時間交給格雷格，回顧我們的第四季度業績並提供有關我們的財務前景的更多詳細資訊。

Thanks, Jeff.

謝謝，傑夫。

To begin, I would like to emphasize that the PN metrics discussed today are non-GAAP measures.

首先，我想強調的是，今天要討論的 PN 指標都是非 GAAP 指標。

These measures exclude the impact of share-based compensation, amortization of acquired intangible assets, non-recurring charges, and discrete tax items and adjustments.

這些指標排除了股權激勵、收購無形資產攤銷、非經常性費用以及單獨稅項和調整的影響。

There is a useful financial supplement available in the investors section of our website that summarizes our GAAP and non-GAAP financial results as well as a summary of the balance sheet and cash flow information for the last several quarters.

我們網站的投資者部分提供了有用的財務補充信息，其中總結了我們的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務結果以及過去幾個季度的資產負債表和現金流資訊摘要。

Fourth quarter revenues were $233 million, aligning with the upper end of guidance.

第四季營收為 2.33 億美元，與預期上限一致。

This represents a 10% increase from the previous quarter and a 15% increase year over year.

這比上一季成長了 10%，比去年同期成長了 15%。

Gross margin declined to 12%, which was lower than our expectations by about 300 basis points.

毛利率下降至12％，比我們的預期低約300個基點。

This decline was primarily due to the higher level of direct manufacturing labor costs we added during the quarter to support the higher demand level in the back half of the fourth quarter.

這一下降主要歸因於我們在本季度增加了更高水準的直接製造勞動力成本，以支持第四季度後半段更高的需求水準。

And the first quarter of 2025 that we were not able to fully absorb within the quarter.

而 2025 年第一季我們未能在該季度內完全吸收。

Additionally, we experienced higher than anticipated inventory charges associated with our year-end physical inventory procedures as well as unfavorable product mix.

此外，由於我們的年終實體盤點程序以及不利的產品組合，我們的庫存費用高於預期。

With the majority of the current revenue upside taking place in our built-to-print gas panel integration business.

目前大部分的收入成長都來自於我們的按需印刷燃氣面板整合業務。

Operating expenses for Q4 were slightly below forecast at $22.3 million.

第四季的營運費用略低於預期，為 2,230 萬美元。

Net interest expense was $1.7 million while non-GAAP net income tax expense exceeded our forecast at $900,000.

淨利息支出為 170 萬美元，而非 GAAP 淨所得稅支出超過我們的預測，為 90 萬美元。

The resulting net income per share was $0.08.

由此產生的每股淨收入為 0.08 美元。

Now turning to the balance sheet, cash and equivalents at the end of the quarter totaled $109 million, an $8 million decrease from Q3.

現在回顧資產負債表，本季末的現金和等價物總額為 1.09 億美元，比第三季減少 800 萬美元。

While our Q4 PNL generated over $8 million of positive cash flow, our net investment in working capital during Q4 was $11 million, primarily in inventory, given the revenue growth inflection in Q4.

雖然我們的第四季獲利產生了超過 800 萬美元的正現金流，但考慮到第四季的營收成長拐點，我們在第四季的營運資本淨投資為 1,100 萬美元，主要用於庫存。

After $4.4 million of capital expenditures, free cash flow for the quarter was a use of $6.9 million. DSOs

在支出 440 萬美元的資本支出後，本季的自由現金流使用量為 690 萬美元。資料儲存系統

for the quarter were slightly lower than Q3 at 34 days.

本季的預期壽命為 34 天，略低於第三季。

And inventory turns increased from

庫存週轉率從

[3.1 to 3.4].

[3.1 至 3.4]。

We reduced debt by $1.9 million during Q4, bringing our year-end balance of total debt outstanding to $129 million, down from $250 million a year ago.

我們在第四季減少了 190 萬美元的債務，使年末未償還債務總額餘額從一年前的 2.5 億美元降至 1.29 億美元。

Our net-debt coverage ratio has declined to 1.6 times, down from 3.4 times a year ago.

我們的淨債務覆蓋率已從一年前的3.4倍下降至1.6倍。

Now, let us discuss our guidance for the first quarter of 2025.

現在，讓我們討論一下 2025 年第一季的指導。

As Jeff mentioned today, we are increasing the high end of our preliminary outlook, discussed in early January.

正如傑夫今天提到的那樣，我們正在提高 1 月初討論的初步預測的高端。

Dissipated revenues in the range of $235 million to $255 million.

流失收入在 2.35 億美元至 2.55 億美元之間。

We expect gross margin the range of 14% to 15%.

我們預計毛利率在14%至15%之間。

At the midpoint of the range or $245 million in revenue and 14.5% gross margin, this equates roughly 25% flow through from our Q3 baseline, less about $1.5 million of residual impacts, ramping and training of our in incremental machining head count.

以範圍的中間值或 2.45 億美元的收入和 14.5％ 的毛利率計算，這相當於我們第三季度基線的約 25％ 的流量，減去約 150 萬美元的殘餘影響、增加和培訓我們不斷增加的機械加工員工數量。

Once these incremental cost headwinds are behind, we anticipate returning to gross margins above 15% by the second quarter and flow through in the 25% to 30% range.

一旦這些增量成本阻力消失，我們預計到第二季毛利率將恢復到 15% 以上，並達到 25% 至 30% 的區間。

Q1 operating expenses are projected to be approximately $23.5 million, reflecting the seasonal impact of payroll taxes, resetting audit fees, and other variable compensation costs.

第一季營運費用預計約為 2,350 萬美元，反映了工資稅、重置審計費用和其他可變薪酬成本的季節性影響。

Given that we expect to remain at similar levels beyond Q1, today, we are also lowering our expected OpEx increase for the full year to an anticipated 5% to 7%, compared to fiscal 2024.

鑑於我們預計第一季之後仍將保持類似水平，今天，我們還將全年預期營運支出增幅下調至預計 5% 至 7%，與 2024 財年相比。

Net interest expense for Q1 is expected to be approximately $1.6 million.

預計第一季淨利息支出約為 160 萬美元。

And we expect this level to be relatively consistent through '25, given recent announcements around a slowing of rate decreases this year.

鑑於最近宣布今年將放緩降息步伐，我們預計這一水平到25年將保持相對穩定。

For modeling purposes, net interest expense for 2025 would be approximately $6 million.

為了建模目的，2025 年的淨利息支出約為 600 萬美元。

Our expected non-GAAP, effective tax rate for 2025, is projected to be approximately 12.5%.

我們預計 2025 年非 GAAP 有效稅率約為 12.5%。

For Q1, specifically, our EPS range of $0.20 to $0.32, reflects our expectation for [$34.4 million] diluted shares outstanding.

具體來說，對於第一季度，我們的每股盈餘範圍為 0.20 美元至 0.32 美元，反映了我們對稀釋流通股數 [3,440 萬美元] 的預期。

Operator, we are ready to take questions.

接線員，我們準備好回答問題了。

Please open the line.

請打開線路。

Thank you.

謝謝。

We'll now be conducting a Q&A session.

我們現在將進行問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Craig Ellis, B Riley Securities.

克雷格·埃利斯 (Craig Ellis)，B Riley Securities。

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks for taking the questions.

感謝您回答這些問題。

And congratulations on the momentum that you're seeing in the business, guys.

大家好，恭喜你們在業務上看到的良好勢頭。

I'll start with Greg and move on with one for Jeff.

我先從 Greg 開始，然後再講 Jeff。

So Greg, if gross margins in calendar '25 are going to be above 16%, which would be a 330 basis points, increase year on year.

因此，格雷格，如果 25 年的毛利率超過 16%，那麼將是 330 個基點，比去年同期成長。

Can you just help, just understand how much of that is benefit from the new product progress that's being made that gas panels, et cetera volume versus the absence of some of the headwinds that have been in play in 2024 like the inventory charges and some of the volume-related cost ramp ups?

您能否幫助我了解，其中有多少受益於新產品的進展，例如天然氣面板等的數量，而不是 2024 年出現的一些不利因素，例如庫存費用和一些與數量相關的成本上漲？

Hi Craig.

你好，克雷格。

Okay, so let's see if I can get to all the points there.

好的，那麼讓我們看看我是否能夠理解所有的要點。

Yes, quite a bit.

是的，相當多。

To get to the -- so the 16% by the end of the year for the full year, you know, the headwinds will go away.

為了達到—今年年底全年 16% 的成長率，你知道，阻力將會消失。

I said those will exit Q2, right?

我說這些將在第二季退出，對嗎？

So those won't materialize as we get through Q2, the internal branded products, right?

所以當我們進入第二季時，這些內部品牌產品就不會實現，對嗎？

That's going to continue on the 25% to 30% improvement on the flow through from an incremental standpoint.

從增量的角度來看，這將繼續使流量提高 25% 到 30%。

Then you know, as we get into the second half, as we get stronger, that will benefit as well.

然後你知道，當我們進入下半場時，我們變得更強大，這也會受益。

So the tail winds will go away.

因此順風將會消失。

That'll benefit us exiting the headwinds, sorry, tail headwinds.

這將有利於我們擺脫逆風，對不起，是尾部逆風。

Q2, the internal branded products will continue to benefit through the rest of the year.

Q2，內部品牌產品將在今年剩餘時間內繼續受益。

And then as we -- you know, get through the second half.

然後我們 — — 你知道，度過了下半場。

You know, we expect those to be in the 15% to 16% and stronger in Q4.

你知道，我們預計第四季的增幅將達到 15% 到 16% 甚至更高。

And Craig, I would tell you -- it's similar to -- it's just sorry, similar to what we've talked about in the past.

克雷格，我想告訴你 - 這很類似 - 這很抱歉，與我們過去談論過的情況類似。

I'd say, obviously some of the excursions that we have won't repeat.

我想說，顯然我們的一些旅行不會再重複了。

But really, the new products are probably the largest driver.

但實際上，新產品可能是最大的推動力。

And then, given that we're seeing, volumes up year over year.

然後，我們看到，交易量逐年增加。

Then, we get kind of the leverage of the core, call it the core business, excluding some of the new stuff.

然後，我們獲得核心的槓桿，稱之為核心業務，排除一些新的東西。

And so, that is how we'll do it.

所以，我們會這樣做。

And obviously, you'll see these margins accrete as we go through the year because of this and how they layer in.

顯然，隨著時間的推移，你會看到這些利潤率因為這個原因以及它們的層層疊加而不斷增加。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

Yeah.

是的。

So I would just infer from that that we've got maybe 45% of the benefit on products, 35% on volume and, and 20% from the absence of some headwinds we had last year.

因此我可以從中推斷，我們可能在產品上獲得了 45% 的收益，在銷售上獲得了 35% 的收益，而去年我們遇到的一些不利因素沒有帶來 20% 的收益。

That -- that's real helpful, guys.

這 — — 這真的很有幫助，夥計們。

And then the second question was for you, Jeff.

第二個問題是問你的，傑夫。

It's great to see some confidence in [NAN] and then being shown by just the build-intensity quarter to date and what you're doing with the high end of the range.

很高興看到人們對 [NAN] 有信心，而且僅從迄今為止的建設強度季度來看，以及您在高端範圍方面所做的事情就可以看出這一點。

As you look at calendar '25 for Ichor and think about the growth in the business, how would you force rank 3D NAN in its transition spin versus DRAM and high-band memory versus gate all around and Foundry?

當您查看 Ichor 的 25 年日曆並思考業務的成長時，您會如何在過渡旋轉中對 3D NAN 與 DRAM、高頻帶記憶體、閘極和 Foundry 進行排名？

I think that's a good question, Craig.

我認為這是個好問題，克雷格。

I mean, obviously, I think we see Foundry logic, remaining pretty strong.

我的意思是，顯然，我認為我們看到 Foundry 邏輯仍然非常強大。

I think you've heard [TSM CS] outlook, things like that.

我想你聽過[TSM CS] 觀點，諸如此類的事情。

We don't see that going backwards.

我們並不認為這種情況會倒退。

I think with gate all around, I think that might see some increased DRAM.

我認為，隨著閘極的全面出現，DRAM 可能會增加。

Our view today is it's going to stay pretty steady and strong.

我們今天的觀點是它將保持相當穩定和強勁。

So really, maybe the inflection, that we're seeing to some degree, is really wrapped around some of the demand increases, that we're seeing in the beginning of the year for sure.

因此實際上，我們所看到的轉折點可能在某種程度上確實與我們在年初看到的一些需求成長有關。

Yeah.

是的。

And that would track with some of the things we heard last week too.

這也與我們上週聽到的一些事情相吻合。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Okay, guys.

好的，夥計們。

That's really helpful.

這真的很有幫助。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

I'll get back in the queue.

我會回到隊列中。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Brian Chin, Stifel.

布萊恩·欽（Brian Chin），Stifel。

Hi there.

你好呀。

Good afternoon.

午安.

Thanks for letting us ask a few questions.

感謝您讓我們提出幾個問題。

Yeah, maybe firstly, in terms of -- it sounds like you're Jeff -- you're talking about at the moment, revenue levels kind of staying at sort of the Q1 level, maybe through the balance of the year.

是的，首先，聽起來你是傑夫，你現在談論的是，收入水平大概會保持在第一季的水平，也許會持續到今年年底。

And so what I want to clarify that sort of the impression you're giving because -- and then kind of secondly, he did pull forward those direct labor costs, which sort of suggests that you expect business need to pick up.

所以我想澄清一下你給人的這種印象，因為——其次，他確實提前了直接勞動成本，這有點表明你預期業務需求會回升。

And so are you being sort of conservative in terms of that stabilization outlook and is what you're really doing -- kind of putting more and higher levels of responsiveness into the business by prepping some of these costs now?

那麼，從穩定前景來看，您是否比較保守？

Obviously, I think that the way to think about it is demand strengthened in the quarter.

顯然，我認為思考這個問題的方式是本季需求增強。

We needed to add resources because we see this staying pretty sustained in the first half with a modest, I would say, at this stage, our view of the second half is up modestly.

我們需要增加資源，因為我們看到這種情況在上半年將保持相當持續的狀態，我想說，在現階段，我們對下半年的看法是適度上升。

So we're comfortable adding the resources in.

因此我們很樂意添加資源。

I don't think it -- the thing that you guys can see is we talk about internal supply.

我不這麼認為——你們可以看到我們談論的是內部供應。

That's a whole another demand driver that I would tell you is outgrowing the rest of the revenue in the company as we start to cut these things in.

我想告訴你的是，這是另一個需求驅動因素，當我們開始削減這些費用時，它的成長速度超過了公司其他部分的收入。

So that is largely where a lot of these resources needed to get into as we completed some of the qualifications, we needed to get in front of inventory builds and some of the demand for that.

因此，當我們完成一些資格審查後，我們基本上需要將大量資源投入到這一領域，我們需要提前做好庫存建設和一些相關需求。

So I don't know if I answered your question entirely.

所以我不知道我是否完全回答了你的問題。

But I think for us, we see -- we're not guiding Q2.

但我認為對我們來說，我們看到——我們沒有指導第二季。

But we see it pretty similar today to Q1 with a modest increase in the second half.

但我們發現目前的情況與第一季非常相似，下半年略有成長。

Got it, some of that ties into the internal sourcing for some of the qualifications on existing gas panels.

明白了，其中一些與現有天然氣面板的部分資質的內部採購有關。

Yeah, certainly from a resource perspective, a fair bit of it actually.

是的，從資源角度來看，其實有相當多的資源。

And second half, like we talked about, we see Foundry logic pretty strong through the year, the ramp pretty stable through the year.

正如我們所談到的，下半年，我們看到 Foundry 的邏輯在全年都相當強勁，成長在全年也相當穩定。

But remember our Litho business has been down, see that coming back towards the second half, Silicon Carbide, for example, has been pretty muted since the first half of '24.

但請記住，我們的光刻業務一直在下滑，看看下半年的情況，例如，碳化矽自24年上半年以來一直相當低迷。

We see that starting to materialize again towards the second half.

我們看到這種情況在下半年再次開始實現。

So there's other things and share gains we've earned this year that'll help us in the back half of the year.

因此，我們今年獲得的其他收益和份額成長將有助於我們在今年下半年取得進展。

Okay.

好的。

And this is a little tricky.

這有點棘手。

But if you did see, upside materialized from etch and deposition, and let's say it's on more legacy guidelines.

但如果你確實看到了，蝕刻和沈積帶來了好處，我們可以說它符合更多的遺留指導方針。

How are you thinking about that impact on sort of the sequential gross margin progression?

您如何看待這對連續毛利率成長的影響？

Or do you think some of these -- some of your other margin initiatives can sort of help to balance that out as well as maybe seeing improvement in machine component of business, as well?

或者您認為其中的一些——您的一些其他利潤舉措是否可以有助於平衡這種局面，同時或許還會看到業務的機器部分有所改善？

Yeah, I -- what I would tell you is that if our [deform] goes heavier to gas panels, which I think is your question.

是的，我想告訴你的是，如果我們的[變形]對氣體面板的影響更大，我認為這是你的問題。

If there's more upside to that than some of the other stuff, it would have a bit of a muting on the percentage of gross margin.

如果這因素比其他因素有更多的好處，那麼毛利率的百分比就會降低。

Having said that, we're starting to get to the stage where we've got kind of -- we're utilizing our overheads and all that, much more efficiently because we do have capacity in place that consumers well above this, right from the '22 timeframe that we were marching towards.

話雖如此，我們開始進入這樣一個階段——我們正在更有效地利用我們的管理費用和所有這些，因為我們確實有能力滿足消費者的需求，這遠高於這個水平，從我們邁向的22年時間框架開始。

So I don't think it'll be as big of an issue as we've seen this year because we were still trying to qualify.

因此我認為這不會像今年那樣成為一個大問題，因為我們仍在努力獲得資格。

We hadn't got our internal supply, really going too strongly.

我們的內部供應還沒有滿足，因此供應實在太強勁了。

And now as we turn corner, I'm pretty happy with where we've gotten to on that.

現在我們迎來了轉捩點，我對我們所取得的進展感到非常高興。

So that should help us, call it, add a tailwind to the margin that would offset any of those product-mix issues.

因此，這應該可以幫助我們增加利潤，從而抵消任何產品組合問題。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Our next question comes from the line of Charlie with Needham & Company.

我們的下一個問題來自 Needham & Company 的 Charlie。

Please proceed.

請繼續。

Charlie?

查理？

Charlie, your line may be on muted on your end.

查理，你那邊的電話可能處於靜音狀態。

Right.

正確的。

I think we may have lost Charlie here.

我想我們可能已經失​​去查理了。

I'll go on to the next question.

我繼續回答下一個問題。

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

克里什·桑卡爾（Krish Sankar），TD Cowen。

Yeah.

是的。

Hi.

你好。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

I told them first one, Jeff, last quarter, you were very bullish on [NAND] recovering.

我先告訴他們，傑夫，上個季度，你對[NAND]的復甦非常樂觀。

Very curious, how to think about your NAND shipments in December versus September?

非常好奇，您如何看待 12 月與 9 月的 NAND 出貨量？

How do you think about it in March versus December and the cadence for the rest of the year?

您認為三月和十二月的情況如何，以及今年剩餘時間的節奏如何？

I would tell you that.

我會告訴你這一點。

But one is, it wasn't a huge part of our revenue.

但首先，它並不是我們收入的主要組成部分。

You know, I was starting off a pretty low base and growing.

你知道，我從一個很低的基礎開始，然後逐漸成長。

But it was a pretty healthy uptick in the fourth quarter, a reasonably similar level into the first quarter, which I would expect would probably continue into the second quarter today.

但第四季的成長相當健康，與第一季的水平相當相似，我預計這種成長勢頭可能會持續到第二季​​。

I tell you that visibility for us now is probably, gone from three months really strong to four, four, maybe five.

我告訴你，現在我們的可見度可能已經從三個月的強勁勢頭下降到四個月、四個月甚至五個月。

So, that's kind of how I would call it at this stage, given our visibility.

所以，考慮到我們的可見性，這就是我現階段所說的內容。

Got it, got it.

知道了，知道了。

Okay.

好的。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And then, you know, when I look at your European semi-cap customers, obviously have two large ones.

然後，您知道，當我查看您的歐洲半導體客戶時，顯然有兩個大客戶。

One is the little, one is the EP, kind of curious on the end customer in Europe.

一個是小客戶，一個是 EP，對歐洲的最終客戶有點好奇。

How are you seeing the revenues trend?

您如何看待收入趨勢？

Because I remember that was one of the fastest growing.

因為我記得這是成長最快的之一。

Do you think they could be a third largest or a 10 person plus customer this year or do you think it's still small?

您認為他們今年能成為第三大客戶或擁有 10 人以上的客戶嗎？

I think they're not going to [decrease] 10%.

我認為他們不會減少 10%。

I would tell you that they've done a terrific job.

我想告訴你，他們做得非常好。

We've expanded our share beyond EP, which is kind of grow market share in that particular customer.

我們的份額已經超出了 EP 的範圍，也就是說，在特定客戶中，我們的市場份額有所增長。

And so, but I don't think it'll decrease.

但我不認為它會減少。

But we do see it growing nicely in 2025 from 2024.

但我們確實看到它從 2024 年開始到 2025 年將會有良好的成長。

Got you.

明白了。

And then, just one final question for Greg.

然後，我還有最後一個問題要問格雷格。

I think the question came up earlier.

我認為這個問題早些時候就出現過。

I was just trying to -- can you just say last year to this year, what is exactly?

我只是想——你能說一下去年和今年的具體情況嗎？

How many basis points improvement and gross margins coming from the proprietary gas panels?

專有天然氣面板帶來了多少基點的改善和毛利率？

That's giving up a lot of information.

這就會洩漏大量資訊。

I let's just say it's a pretty large component of of the gross margin accretion.

我只能說，這是毛利率成長的一個相當大的組成部分。

The volume helps us year over year.

這些數量對我們每年都有幫助。

And the -- and just not having some of these excursions that we incurred in 2024.

而且 — — 並且不會出現我們在 2024 年經歷的一些偏差。

So, but I would say it's probably one of the largest of our accretion activities that we have year over year.

所以，我想說這可能是我們逐年進行的最大的累積活動之一。

Got you.

明白了。

Alright.

好吧。

Thanks for [the thanks], Jeff.

謝謝你，傑夫。

Tom Selbey, D.A. Davidson.

湯姆·塞爾比（Tom Selbey），地方檢察官戴維森。

Yeah.

是的。

Good afternoon.

午安.

Thank you for a few questions.

謝謝您提出的幾個問題。

So you know most people now expect the WC market to grow in the mid-single digits this year.

所以你知道現在大多數人預計今年馬桶市場將實現中等個位數成長。

Your large OEM customers because they're more in depth related or growing above that.

您的大型 OEM 客戶，因為他們與其有更深入的聯繫或正在不斷成長。

At this point, can you say whether or not you believe you'll grow faster than your OEM customers?

目前，您能否說一下您是否相信您的成長速度會比您的 OEM 客戶更快？

I would say they're obviously, we think that [an edge] and actually, as you indicated is going to outgrow total WFE.

我想說的是，我們認為它們顯然是一種優勢，而且實際上，正如您所指出的那樣，其增長速度將超過 WFE 總量。

And I think as we look at our customers, not based on what you guys see, talk specifically other than some of the analyst estimates, is that they will outgrow it.

我認為，當我們審視我們的客戶時，不是基於你們所看到的，而是具體談論一些分析師的估計，而是他們會超越它。

And we think we can have that just a bit more.

我們認為我們可以擁有更多一點。

Yeah.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And then when you know, people are talking about the NAND [Mark], how is the industry recovering this year?

然後你知道，人們正在談論 NAND [Mark]，今年該行業復甦情況如何？

It's great news.

這是個好消息。

But you may be put into perspective where NAND is versus the other markets.

但您可能會了解到 NAND 與其他市場的比較。

And how you maybe over the next couple of years, there's quite a bit more growth than just this year left in NAND?

您認為未來幾年 NAND 的成長速度是否會比今年大幅增加？

Yeah, I mean, like what -- I guess when we look at what we're doing as a company, we're kind of seeing it go from 5% of our revenue to about 7% of our revenue, which is actually sizable as our revenue grows too.

是的，我的意思是，就像——我想當我們看看我們作為一家公司所做的事情時，我們看到它從我們收入的 5% 增長到我們收入的 7% 左右，隨著我們收入的增長，這個數字實際上是相當大的。

But it's still not getting to the size of what we think the DRAM will be and certainly not founded logic.

但它還沒有達到我們所認為的 DRAM 的大小，當然也沒有建立邏輯。

But we think for the last couple of years, we've been -- memory has been about 25%, the DRAM.

但我們認為，在過去幾年裡，記憶體的 DRAM 份額一直保持在 25% 左右。

And we see that getting larger this year as a percentage of our revenue certainly.

我們看到今年這一比例在我們的收入中肯定會增加。

And then maybe a quick one for Greg as well.

然後也許對 Greg 來說也是一個快速的。

When you look at the cost that you've layered in the extra employees, you've layered in cost over the last couple of months.

當您查看為額外員工支付的成本時，您會發現過去幾個月的成本已經增加。

And right now, have revenue maybe going up to [255] in the first quarter.

目前，第一季的營收可能上升至 [255]。

What is the revenue capabilities of your current infrastructure?

您目前基礎設施的收入能力如何？

How much revenue?

收入多少？

Yeah, just with your current installed base of both employees and you know, physical footprint, how much revenue could you process at this point without the full additions?

是的，僅憑您目前安裝的員工基礎和實體足跡，在沒有完全增加的情況下，目前可以處理多少收入？

From a facility point of view, clean rooms, all that capacity is well north of 400, right?

從設施的角度來看，無塵室的總容量遠遠超過 400，對嗎？

And today, we try and mirror our head count being added as close to the demand profile.

今天，我們盡力使新增員工數量盡可能接近需求情況。

What you guys see is external revenue.

大家看到的是外部收入。

We have a view of what we're cutting in until I would say, well below that 400-plus capacity.

我們對削減規模有一個預期，我認為，會遠低於 400 多個的容量。

So it's really people dependent.

所以這確實取決於人。

Right now, I would say once we add the bulk of the resources that we're seeing in Q1.

現在，我想說，一旦我們添加了我們在第一季看到的大部分資源。

And if we have a modest back half, it will be very little incremental. [People] -- we can probably do it with overtime and things like that.

如果我們的後半部規模不大，那麼增量就非常小。 [人們]—我們可能需要加班或類似方式才能做到這一點。

Alright, maybe one last quick question.

好吧，也許還有最後一個快速問題。

Do you have any components that you processed flying around in space right now?

您加工過的任何部件現在是否在太空中飛行？

Yes, of course.

是的當然。

We do, obviously, we have some business with SpaceX.

顯然，我們與 SpaceX 有一些業務往來。

And so most of what we built for them, goes up.

因此，我們為他們建造的大部分東西都上去了。

It doesn't come back.

它再也沒有回來。

Alright.

好吧。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You bet.

當然。

Thanks for asking.

謝謝你的提問。

Christian Schwab, Craig-Hallum Group.

Christian Schwab, Craig-Hallum Group.

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks.

謝謝。

I just -- most of my questions have been answered.

我只是——我的大部分問題都得到了回答。

I just have a question gross margins, clarity.

我只是對毛利率和清晰度有疑問。

Did you guys talk about the gross margins being greater than 16% as you exited the year?

你們有沒有說過，今年年底的毛利率將超過 16%？

Or you say that gross margin would be greater than 16% for calendar '25.

或者您說 25 年的毛利率將高於 16%。

I don't know if I heard that right.

我不知道我是否聽錯了。

I think we're trying to -- well, so exiting the year on a run rate north of 16%, Christian.

我認為我們正在努力——好吧，所以今年的運行率將超過 16%，克里斯蒂安。

And then full year at that 16%.

全年成長率為 16%。

Well, you're at 16%.

嗯，目前是 16%。

And then, what do you think, you know, optimal gross margins with increased proprietary product?

那麼，您認為隨著專有產品的增加，最佳毛利率是多少？

You know, maybe if we look to '26 if let's say, WFE goes up again, how good could gross margins?

你知道，如果我們展望26年，假設WFE再次上漲，毛利率會有多好？

Well, what I would tell you is that our model today is

好吧，我想告訴你的是，我們今天的模型是

[19].

[19]。

And I think, in general, the direction we're getting in communications is that '26 will be a better year than 2025 from a growth perspective.

我認為，總體而言，我們在通訊方面取得的方向是，從成長角度來看，2026 年將比 2025 年更好。

I would certainly think, given where we're at cutting in, certainly our passive products are really making good progress.

我當然會認為，考慮到我們所處的切入點，我們的被動產品肯定正在取得良好的進展。

Even though I think we can get pretty close to that in 2026 if the quarterly run rates kind of get up over maybe 300, at least.

儘管我認為，如果季度運行率至少能超過 300，到 2026 年，我們就能夠非常接近這個目標。

And because we need to have that to absorb some of our infrastructure.

因為我們需要它來吸收我們的一些基礎設施。

No other questions.

沒有其他問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Edward Yang, Oppenheimer.

楊德昌，奧本海默。

Please proceed.

請繼續。

Hi, Jeff.

你好，傑夫。

Hi Greg.

你好，格雷格。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Based on your new products progress, the gas panel deliveries that you had in '24, I think you had specified at 50.

根據你們新產品的進展，你們在 24 年交付的瓦斯面板數量，我想你們指定為 50。

Was that consistent with your expectation?

這和你的預期一致嗎？

I think last quarter, you targeting something around 55?

我認為上個季度您的目標在 55 左右？

Yeah.

是的。

I said more than 50.

我說的是50多個。

So yeah, it was pretty much aligned.

是的，它基本上是一致的。

You always get a few movements here and there.

你總是會在這裡或那裡看到一些動作。

But we came in just about where we thought we would be.

但我們最終還是到達了我們預想的那個位置。

And so we -- and most of these evaluations are active [at] device, customers now.

因此，我們 — — 現在大多數評估都在設備、客戶身上發揮作用。

And so at that stage, our customers are managing that process.

因此在那個階段，我們的客戶正在管理流程。

And then unfortunately, we haven't had any close yet.

但不幸的是，我們還沒有達成任何協議。

But we're optimistic that that those will happen in the early part of 2025, certainly in the first half.

但我們樂觀地認為，這些將在 2025 年初實現，肯定是在上半年。

Okay.

好的。

So, were these all still for qualifying or did you have any commercial shipments?

那麼，這些都是符合資格的嗎，或者你們有任何商業貨運嗎？

I would say that as we're shipping to their customer evaluations, we would call them commercial shipments.

我想說的是，當我們將其發送給他們的客戶評估時，我們將其稱為商業貨運。

I mean they're designed, they're putting them on a tool.

我的意思是他們設計好了它們，並把它們放在工具上。

There maybe the first half of those or less or something.

可能有其中的前半部分或更少或類似的東西。

We're probably what you would call kind of evaluations at our customers that are putting them on to their tools for the first time.

我們可能就是對首次將工具應用於客戶進行評估的那種人。

But once they make it to a customer, we kind of treat them like a commercial shipment.

但一旦它們到達客戶手中，我們就會像對待商業貨物一樣對待它們。

And I would tell you that the -- that is a much smaller component of our internally supplied components.

我想告訴你，這只是我們內部供應的組件中很小的一部分。

That's a bigger number.

這是一個更大的數字。

So we're still in the early innings of the fully integrated new gas box.

因此，我們仍處於完全整合的新型氣箱的早期階段。

Got it.

知道了。

And you commented on this in the January presentation, but you do you still see no incremental impact from the export controls?

您在一月份的報告中對此發表了評論，但您是否仍然認為出口管制沒有帶來增量影響？

And do you have any preliminary thoughts on tariffs?

您對關稅有什麼初步想法嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

I was glad to see him delayed for 30 days on tariffs.

我很高興看到他的關稅決議被推遲了30天。

I -- the rules were just to be clear.

我 — — 制定規則只是為了明確一點。

The rules were very to me, ambiguous.

對我來說這些規則非常模糊。

Most of Mexico is where we would have felt that we had very little that we procure out of China anymore.

在墨西哥的大部分地區，我們感覺到從中國採購的貨物已經所剩無幾了。

So any inbound tariffs from China, the minimis for us.

因此，任何來自中國的進口關稅對我們來說都是最低的。

It's mostly around Mexico.

它主要位於墨西哥周圍。

Most of what we build there comes from the US.

我們在那裡建造的大部分建築都來自美國。

So we were not very clear yet on what that is going to be, having said that I don't know where that will end up.

因此我們還不是很清楚這將會是什麼，儘管我說過我不知道這將會走向何方。

I'm sure the rules will start to get more clarified.

我確信規則將會變得更加明確。

But it certainly, it moves into our cost-plus gas box business.

但它肯定會進入我們的成本加成煤氣箱業務。

It gets passed forward.

它被傳遞下去。

Okay.

好的。

And then the other question was the China export.

另一個問題是中國的出口。

I think all that's been baked into our visibility that we have.

我認為所有這些都已融入我們的知名度中。

There's no been -- no other downtake.

還未發生其他下滑情況。

Obviously, some customers have talked about the impact of their business, which has already been incorporated in any outlook we provided.

顯然，一些客戶已經談到了他們的業務的影響，這已經納入我們提供的任何展望中。

Thank you.

謝謝。

There are no further questions at this time.

目前沒有其他問題。

I'd like to pass the call back over to Jeff Andreson for closing remarks.

我想將電話轉回給傑夫安德森 (Jeff Andreson)，請他作最後發言。

I want to thank you for joining us on our call this afternoon.

感謝您參加我們今天下午的電話會議。

We'll go to our next quarterly update in early May for our Q1 earnings call.

我們將在五月初的第一季財報電話會議上發布下一次季度更新。

In the meantime, feel free to reach out to Claire directly if you'd like a follow up.

同時，如果您需要跟進，請隨時直接聯繫克萊爾。