Hudson Global Inc (HSON) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Hudson Global Conference Call for the Fourth Quarter of 2022. Our call today will be led by Chief Executive Officer, Jeff Eberwein; and Chief Financial Officer, Matt Diamond.

早上好，歡迎參加哈德遜 2022 年第四季度全球電話會議。我們今天的電話會議將由首席執行官 Jeff Eberwein 主持；和首席財務官 Matt Diamond。

Please be advised that the statements made during the presentation include forward-looking statements under applicable securities laws. Such forward-looking statements involve certain risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements. These risks are discussed in our Form 8-K filed today and in other filings made with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our annual report on Form 10-K. The company disclaims any obligation to update any forward-looking statements.

請注意，在演示過程中所做的陳述包括適用證券法下的前瞻性陳述。此類前瞻性陳述涉及某些風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中包含的結果存在重大差異。我們在今天提交的 8-K 表格以及向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中討論了這些風險，包括我們關於 10-K 表格的年度報告。公司不承擔任何更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

During the course of this conference call, references will be made to non-GAAP terms such as consistent currency, adjusted EBITDA and adjusted earnings per diluted share. Reconciliations for these measures are included in our earnings release and quarterly slides, both posted on our website, hudsonrpo.com. I encourage you to access our earnings materials at this time as they will serve as a helpful reference guide during our call.

在本次電話會議期間，將提及非 GAAP 條款，例如統一貨幣、調整後的 EBITDA 和調整後的每股攤薄收益。這些措施的對賬包含在我們的收益發布和季度幻燈片中，它們都發佈在我們的網站 hudsonrpo.com 上。我鼓勵您此時訪問我們的收益資料，因為它們將在我們通話期間作為有用的參考指南。

I will now turn the call over to Jeff Eberwein.

我現在將把電話轉給 Jeff Eberwein。

Thank you, operator, and welcome, everyone. We thank you for your interest in Hudson Global and for joining us today. I'll start by reviewing the fourth quarter 2022 highlights, and Matt Diamond, our CFO, will provide some additional details on our financial results. I'll then give an update on current business condition.

謝謝接線員，歡迎大家。感謝您對翰德全球的關注並今天加入我們。我將首先回顧 2022 年第四季度的亮點，我們的首席財務官 Matt Diamond 將提供有關我們財務業績的一些額外細節。然後，我將提供有關當前業務狀況的最新信息。

In the fourth quarter of 2022, we reported revenue of $44 million and adjusted net revenue of $22.2 million. SG&A costs were $19.7 million in the fourth quarter, and we reported. Adjusted EBITDA of $2.4 million, net income of $0.1 million or $0.02 a share and adjusted net income of $0.33 a share versus $1.02 a year ago.

2022 年第四季度，我們報告的收入為 4400 萬美元，調整後的淨收入為 2220 萬美元。我們報告稱，第四季度的 SG&A 成本為 1,970 萬美元。調整後的 EBITDA 為 240 萬美元，淨收入為 10 萬美元或每股 0.02 美元，調整後的每股淨收入為 0.33 美元，而一年前為 1.02 美元。

I'll now turn the call over to Matt Diamond, our CFO, to review our financial results by region as well as some additional financial details from the fourth quarter.

我現在將電話轉給我們的首席財務官 Matt Diamond，按地區審查我們的財務業績以及第四季度的一些額外財務細節。

Thank you, Jeff, and good morning, everyone. Revenue and adjusted net revenue for our Americas business decreased [12%] in constant currency. Adjusted EBITDA of $0.5 million decreased versus last year's adjusted EBITDA of $2.7 million. Revenue for our Asia Pacific business decreased 7% year-over-year in constant currency, and adjusted net revenue grew 17% in constant currency. Adjusted EBITDA of $2.1 million decreased from adjusted EBITDA of $2.4 million a year ago. Our EMEA business grew revenue 14% and adjusted net revenue 33% in constant currency. Adjusted EBITDA of $0.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2022 increased slightly versus a year ago.

謝謝你，傑夫，大家早上好。我們美洲業務的收入和調整後淨收入按固定匯率計算下降 [12%]。調整後的 EBITDA 為 50 萬美元，而去年調整後的 EBITDA 為 270 萬美元。我們亞太業務的收入按固定匯率計算同比下降 7%，調整後的淨收入按固定匯率計算增長 17%。調整後的 EBITDA 為 210 萬美元，低於一年前調整後的 240 萬美元。我們的 EMEA 業務按固定匯率計算收入增長 14%，調整後淨收入增長 33%。 2022 年第四季度調整後的 EBITDA 為 50 萬美元，同比略有增長。

Turning to some additional financial details in the fourth quarter. We ended Q4 with $27.5 million in cash and restricted cash. Days sales outstanding was 50 days at December 2022, up from DSO of 43 days in December 2021. In connection with the acquisition of Coit Group in the fourth quarter of 2020, Karani in the fourth quarter of 2021 and Hunt & Badge in the third quarter of 2022, our balance sheet as of year-end reflects $4.9 million of goodwill and $4.5 million of net amortizable intangible assets.

轉向第四季度的一些額外財務細節。我們以 2750 萬美元的現金和限制性現金結束了第四季度。截至 2022 年 12 月，未償銷售天數為 50 天，高於 2021 年 12 月的 43 天 DSO。與 2020 年第四季度收購 Coit Group、2021 年第四季度 Karani 和第三季度收購 Hunt & Badge 有關到 2022 年，我們截至年底的資產負債表反映了 490 萬美元的商譽和 450 萬美元的可攤銷淨無形資產。

The company's working capital, excluding cash, decreased to $7.3 million in the fourth quarter of 2022 from $7.8 million at the end of 2021. As a reminder, in April 2019, we finalized a credit facility in Australia to support the expected growth in working capital needs as a result of new client wins in that market, but we had nothing drawn on this facility at the end of Q4. The company generated $4.4 million in cash flow from operations during the fourth quarter.

公司的營運資金（不包括現金）從 2021 年底的 780 萬美元減少到 2022 年第四季度的 730 萬美元。提醒一下，2019 年 4 月，我們在澳大利亞完成了一項信貸安排，以支持營運資金的預期增長由於在該市場贏得新客戶而需要，但我們在第四季度末沒有從該設施中提取任何東西。公司在第四季度產生了 440 萬美元的運營現金流。

I'll now turn the call back over to Jeff to give some more perspective on our RPO business and to review current trends in our business.

我現在將電話轉回給 Jeff，讓他對我們的 RPO 業務有更多的看法，並回顧我們業務的當前趨勢。

Thank you, Matt. In the fourth quarter of 2022, we grew adjusted net revenue 5% as strong top line growth in the U.K. and Australia was partially offset by the slowdown in the tech sector and lower hiring volumes in China due to COVID-19-related lockdowns. Although adjusted EBITDA declined versus last year's fourth quarter, we were able to reduce SG&A costs by more than $1 million versus Q3 and can make further adjustments to our cost structure if needed.

謝謝你，馬特。 2022 年第四季度，我們調整後的淨收入增長了 5%，因為英國和澳大利亞的強勁營收增長被科技行業放緩和因 COVID-19 相關封鎖導致的中國招聘量減少所部分抵消。儘管調整後的 EBITDA 與去年第四季度相比有所下降，但與第三季度相比，我們能夠將 SG&A 成本降低超過 100 萬美元，並且可以在需要時進一步調整我們的成本結構。

We continue to win new business, and we have a very experienced team with a history of navigating different market cycles. We believe we're well positioned to respond quickly to the needs of our clients at various activity levels.

我們繼續贏得新業務，我們擁有一支經驗豐富的團隊，他們在駕馭不同市場週期方面有著悠久的歷史。我們相信我們有能力快速響應客戶在不同活動級別的需求。

Further, I'd like to emphasize that our enterprise RPO work, which now comprises approximately 80% of our business, continues to hold up very well. The remaining 20% of our business, which consists of work in the technology sector and project work, is where we have seen a significant slowdown starting in the second half of last year.

此外，我想強調的是，我們的企業 RPO 工作（現在約占我們業務的 80%）繼續保持良好狀態。我們剩下的 20% 的業務，包括技術部門的工作和項目工作，從去年下半年開始我們就看到了顯著放緩。

Our teams have responded accordingly to these market changes to protect our profitability and position the business to respond quickly should these conditions reverse. As always, I want to thank all of our highly dedicated employees for their flexibility, hard work and dedication to our clients and business in the challenging conditions we've been working through.

我們的團隊對這些市場變化做出了相應的反應，以保護我們的盈利能力，並使企業能夠在這些情況逆轉時迅速做出反應。一如既往，我要感謝我們所有高度敬業的員工，感謝他們的靈活性、辛勤工作以及在我們一直努力應對的充滿挑戰的條件下對我們的客戶和企業的奉獻。

Operator, can you please open the line for questions?

接線員，您可以打開問題熱線嗎？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Our first question comes from Marc Riddick with Sidoti & Company.

我們的第一個問題來自 Sidoti & Company 的 Marc Riddick。

So I was wondering if you could bring us up to date as to maybe what you're seeing as far as the pricing environment, bill rates, pay rates as well as I recall you were working on putting through some price increases. Maybe you could sort of give an update as to maybe what you're seeing there.

所以我想知道你是否可以讓我們了解你在定價環境、賬單費率、支付率方面所看到的最新情況，以及我記得你正在努力通過一些價格上漲。也許你可以更新一下你在那裡看到的內容。

Sure. Yes, the issue that we had in the second half of last year was all volume related. Pricing continues to be positive, and we are getting continued price increases. And in general, our pricing follows wage rates and the labor market. So if wage rates, labor rates are going up, that's a pretty good indicator, a leading indicator for our pricing trends.

當然。是的，我們在去年下半年遇到的問題都與數量有關。定價仍然是積極的，我們的價格也在持續上漲。一般來說，我們的定價遵循工資率和勞動力市場。因此，如果工資率、勞動力率上升，這是一個很好的指標，是我們定價趨勢的領先指標。

Okay. And then I was wondering as to the -- one of the things I did notice about the results was the tax rate seemed to be kind of higher than maybe I was expecting. I was wondering if there was anything in particular there that we should be aware of.

好的。然後我想知道 - 我注意到的結果之一是稅率似乎比我預期的要高。我想知道是否有任何我們應該特別注意的地方。

Yes, it's a really good question, Marc. It really is just a mix issue, and it's frustrating because we have such a large NOL, but that NOL is only for U.S. income. And as you know, we're very global and generate income around the world. So in Q4 -- Q3 and Q4, we had a decline in the U.S., which effectively has a 0% tax rate. And international grew as a percentage of total. And if you look at our 10-K when it comes out, you'll see that we pay taxes in places like Australia, U.K., Hong Kong, China. And so that's why the effective rate looks a little crazy. It's really because of mix.

是的，這是一個非常好的問題，馬克。這真的只是一個混合問題，令人沮喪，因為我們有如此大的 NOL，但 NOL 僅適用於美國收入。如您所知，我們非常全球化，在世界各地創造收入。所以在第四季度——第三季度和第四季度，我們在美國出現了下滑，實際上稅率為 0%。國際業務佔總數的百分比有所增長。如果你看看我們的 10-K，你會發現我們在澳大利亞、英國、香港、中國等地納稅。這就是為什麼實際利率看起來有點瘋狂的原因。真的是因為混。

Okay. That makes sense. And then I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about -- given the -- and you mentioned in your prepared remarks some of the prior acquisition activity. I was wondering if you could sort give us an update as to maybe what you're seeing out there and what your thoughts maybe as to, if anything much has changed, whether it be at the pipeline or potential valuations or maybe geographic mix attractiveness, anything like that?

好的。這就說得通了。然後我想知道你是否可以談談 - 鑑於 - 你在準備好的評論中提到了一些先前的收購活動。我想知道你是否可以給我們更新一下你在那裡看到的東西以及你的想法，如果有什麼變化，無論是在管道中還是潛在估值或者地理組合吸引力，類似的東西嗎？

Yes. I would say -- I would summarize it by saying we're always looking, but we're patient and waiting for some good opportunities to come along. There were actually quite a few acquisition possibilities that were on the market last year. A few of those did get acquired by other people who were just willing to pay a higher valuation than we were. But quite a few of them didn't happen, didn't get done.

是的。我會說 - 我會總結說我們一直在尋找，但我們有耐心並等待一些好的機會出現。去年市場上實際上有很多收購的可能性。其中一些確實被其他人收購，他們只是願意支付比我們更高的估值。但其中有相當一部分沒有發生，沒有完成。

And we're always in the market. We're always looking. We don't have to do anything. We're really looking for those situations where, A, it's a good valuation, immediately accretive, but B, really adds something to our business that maybe we don't have or it's just easier to acquire than to build from scratch, whether it's in a new sector or a new geographic region. That's really what we're looking for.

我們總是在市場上。我們一直在尋找。我們什麼都不用做。我們真的在尋找這樣的情況，A，這是一個很好的估值，可以立即增值，但是 B，確實為我們的業務增加了一些我們可能沒有的東西，或者它比從頭開始構建更容易獲得，無論是在一個新的部門或一個新的地理區域。這正是我們要尋找的。

Great. And then I guess the last 1 for me. I know we've seen a lot of headlines around everything that's taking place in the tech world. I think in some prior commentary that you've made, talking about how some of that kind of filtered from smaller companies to bigger companies, I guess, throughout the year, last year leading into this year. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about maybe what we've seen in some of the other verticals. Or are there any callouts that maybe we're not seeing as much talked about that would be worthy to know about?

偉大的。然後我猜最後一個對我來說。我知道我們已經看到很多關於科技界正在發生的一切的頭條新聞。我想在你之前發表的一些評論中，我想在整個一年中，從去年到今年，這種情況是如何從小公司過濾到大公司的。我想知道你是否可以談談我們在其他一些垂直領域看到的情況。或者是否有任何我們沒有看到太多討論但值得了解的標註？

Yes, I would say we're seeing a lot of strength in healthcare, and healthcare for us is life sciences, pharmaceuticals, medical devices. Other companies might -- other providers might focus on hospital chains and health care providers. That's not really what we mean when we talk about healthcare. So that's an area of particular strength, but we're also seeing some strength in select consumer, particularly high end and manufacturing, industrials, there's some pockets of strength there and there's some pockets of strength in financial services.

是的，我會說我們在醫療保健領域看到了很多優勢，對我們來說，醫療保健是生命科學、製藥和醫療設備。其他公司可能——其他供應商可能專注於連鎖醫院和醫療保健供應商。當我們談論醫療保健時，這並不是我們真正的意思。所以這是一個特別有實力的領域，但我們也看到了一些特定消費者的實力，特別是高端和製造業、工業，那裡有一些實力，金融服務也有一些實力。

So it's really -- there's a lot going on under the surface. But in general, those have been areas where we've won new business, clients are continuing to hire at healthy rates. And by far, the weakest sector, as we talked about, is the technology sector. And even there, where our team has repositioned and there are a few areas where there is still some decent activity like IT services, and we're starting to see some activity with AI-related companies, and those are typically backed by venture capital firms, but we're seeing more and more of those startups get funded and need to partner with someone like us to help them ramp.

所以它真的 - 表面下發生了很多事情。但總的來說，這些是我們贏得新業務的領域，客戶繼續以健康的速度招聘。到目前為止，正如我們所說，最薄弱的部門是技術部門。即使在那裡，我們的團隊已經重新定位，在一些領域仍然有一些不錯的活動，比如 IT 服務，我們開始看到一些與 AI 相關的公司的活動，這些活動通常得到風險投資公司的支持，但我們看到越來越多的初創公司獲得資金，需要與像我們這樣的人合作來幫助他們成長。

Great. And then 1 -- I'll sneak in 1 last 1, sorry. I wanted to see if you had any update as to maybe what you're seeing with RPO trends and receptivity, given the macroeconomic environment.

偉大的。然後 1 -- 我將偷偷加入最後 1 個，抱歉。鑑於宏觀經濟環境，我想看看您是否有任何關於您所看到的 RPO 趨勢和接受度的更新。

Yes, it continues to be healthy. So enterprise RPO, which is the vast bulk of what we do, had a really good year last year and we think we'll have another good year this year. And like I mentioned just a minute ago, by far, the biggest opportunities are in healthcare. And I would chalk that up to it being somewhat independent of the economic cycle or what's going on in the banking sector.

是的，它繼續保持健康。因此，企業 RPO，這是我們所做工作的大部分，去年表現非常好，我們認為今年會是另一個好年頭。就像我剛才提到的，到目前為止，最大的機會在醫療保健領域。我會把這歸因於它在某種程度上獨立於經濟周期或銀行業正在發生的事情。

But I would also chalk it up to just kind of coming out of COVID. A lot of those companies either want to use RPO, have an RPO solution for the first time, and they've been studying it for a while, and they just were kind of on hold because of COVID because that was such a distraction and they were dealing with that. And then another thing we're seeing is that they're unhappy with their incumbent provider because the incumbent provider didn't -- wasn't, in some cases, as flexible as they needed them to be. And so we're seeing more opportunities than usual to pitch for business where the client is already convinced RPO is the way to go, and they're just not satisfied with their current partner.

但我也會把它歸結為剛剛從 COVID 中走出來。很多這些公司要么想使用 RPO，要么是第一次擁有 RPO 解決方案，他們已經研究了一段時間，但由於 COVID，他們有點被擱置了，因為這太讓人分心了，他們正在處理那個。然後我們看到的另一件事是，他們對現任供應商不滿意，因為現任供應商沒有——在某些情況下，沒有他們需要的那樣靈活。因此，我們看到比以往更多的機會來推介客戶已經確信 RPO 是可行的方式，而他們只是對當前的合作夥伴不滿意。

Our next question comes from Ignacio Bernaldez with EF Hutton.

我們的下一個問題來自 Ignacio Bernaldez 和 EF Hutton。

I'm calling on behalf of Eddie Reilly. Two questions here. The first, regarding the new business wins mentioned in the press release, just curious what's driving these wins, given the current macro environment.

我代表 Eddie Reilly 打電話來。這裡有兩個問題。首先，關於新聞稿中提到的新業務勝利，只是好奇在當前的宏觀環境下是什麼推動了這些勝利。

Yes. Well, there's always -- as someone on TV says, there's always a bull market somewhere. And when I look at this as probably one of the more encouraging things, we've won a healthy amount of new business in the first quarter. I would estimate it at around $3 million and that number is an annualized net revenue number. It doesn't mean $3 million additional in 2023. That one is fully up and running what the annualized run rate is.

是的。好吧，總有——正如電視上有人說的那樣，總有某個地方存在牛市。當我認為這可能是更令人鼓舞的事情之一時，我們在第一季度贏得了大量新業務。我估計它在 300 萬美元左右，這個數字是年化淨收入數字。這並不意味著 2023 年會額外增加 300 萬美元。那個已經完全啟動並運行，年化運行率是多少。

And it's a collection of gaming, healthcare. We won a pretty decent sized account with a specialty chemical company that focuses on clean water products, hygiene products. And so it's really just looking for where the need is and responding to that client need. I think we've all seen situations like during COVID, where a lot of sectors, a lot of countries were on pause. And then coming out of COVID, it was, to varying degrees, all sectors, all countries at full steam ahead.

它是遊戲、醫療保健的集合。我們在一家專注於清潔水產品和衛生產品的特種化學品公司贏得了相當大的客戶。因此，它實際上只是在尋找需求所在並響應客戶的需求。我想我們都見過像 COVID 期間這樣的情況，很多行業、很多國家都處於停頓狀態。然後從 COVID 中走出來，在不同程度上，所有部門、所有國家都在全速前進。

And I would just say the current environment is more mixed. There's a lot going on in some countries, some sectors, some companies. And the real epicenter of the weakness from what we see is the tech sector, particularly in the West Coast of the U.S. That's the real epicenter and it's as bad as other severe downturns like after the dotcom bust and during the great financial crisis.

我只想說當前的環境更加複雜。一些國家、一些部門、一些公司正在發生很多事情。從我們所看到的情況來看，真正的疲軟震中是科技行業，尤其是在美國西海岸。這是真正的震中，它與互聯網泡沫破滅後和金融危機期間的其他嚴重衰退一樣糟糕。

That's really helpful. And then just secondly here, just kind of looking ahead to 2023, wondering what your top strategic priority for the year is.

這真的很有幫助。其次，展望 2023 年，想知道您今年的首要戰略重點是什麼。

Yes, that's a really good question. It's really just to continue to execute well and make sure that our investments are prudent and delivering the results we expect them to deliver, what we've talked in the past about how much we've increased investment spending. And we believe we're in a growth business. We believe we're a growth company and the areas where we have significantly increased our spending versus, say, 4 or 5 years ago, are the areas of sales, marketing, technology.

是的，這是一個非常好的問題。這真的只是繼續良好執行並確保我們的投資是審慎的，並提供我們期望他們提供的結果，我們過去談到我們增加了多少投資支出。我們相信我們的業務正在增長。我們相信我們是一家成長型公司，與 4 或 5 年前相比，我們顯著增加支出的領域是銷售、營銷和技術領域。

And we continue to invest in those areas. We think it's very high ROI. And that's why we think -- that's why we're seeing a pretty healthy pipeline of new business opportunities. It's because of those investments we've made. And so it's really just making sure that those are playing out the way we expect them to, given the investment that we've laid out.

我們繼續在這些領域進行投資。我們認為這是非常高的投資回報率。這就是為什麼我們認為 - 這就是為什麼我們看到了一個非常健康的新商業機會管道。這是因為我們所做的那些投資。因此，考慮到我們已經進行的投資，這真的只是確保它們按照我們期望的方式發揮作用。

That's really helpful.

這真的很有幫助。

Our next question comes from Mark Bishop with -- private investor.

我們的下一個問題來自 Mark Bishop 和私人投資者。

I have a couple of things here. First, in your -- you said you've cut about $1 million-plus in SG&A. How much of that flowed through to Q4 and how much has not benefited earnings yet?

我這裡有幾件事。首先，在你的——你說你已經削減了大約 100 萬美元以上的 SG&A。其中有多少流向了第四季度，有多少尚未使收益受益？

Yes. I would say we have a very flexible -- just at a high level, we have a very flexible cost structure. And so we can adjust fairly quickly to changes in activity levels. And the second half of last year was one of those odd times where certain clients, certain countries, certain sectors were ramping while others were decreasing. And there can be some inefficiencies in the short term as we move people around. And we had situations where we're hiring in 1 area and reducing in another area. That usually takes a quarter or 2 to kind of work itself out.

是的。我想說我們有一個非常靈活的——只是在高層次上，我們有一個非常靈活的成本結構。因此，我們可以相當快速地適應活動水平的變化。去年下半年是某些客戶、某些國家、某些行業增長而其他行業卻在下降的奇怪時期之一。當我們四處移動人員時，短期內可能會出現一些效率低下的情況。我們遇到過在一個領域招聘而在另一個領域裁員的情況。這通常需要四分之一或兩分鐘才能自行解決。

And a very good rule of thumb is that our SG&A costs should run around 70% of adjusted net revenue. So just like if you're building a model or kind of looking at a long-term forecast, that's a pretty good way to look at the business, we think. So if we get another $1 of revenue in general, we have to add $0.70 of SG&A and that other $0.30 should drop down to the EBITDA line because we already have all the costs of being global and the overhead and different things like that.

一個非常好的經驗法則是我們的 SG&A 成本應該佔調整後淨收入的 70% 左右。因此，就像您正在構建模型或查看長期預測一樣，我們認為這是看待業務的一種很好的方式。因此，如果我們總體上再獲得 1 美元的收入，我們必須增加 0.70 美元的 SG&A，而其他 0.30 美元應該下降到 EBITDA 線，因為我們已經有了全球化的所有成本、間接費用和類似的其他東西。

So we were just pointing out that our SG&A costs in absolute dollars declined by, I think it was a little over $1 million in Q4 versus Q3. And we can make further adjustments up or down as required by our clients. And we just wanted to highlight that just to show we do have a flexible business model. We can make adjustments pretty quickly. Sometimes it takes a quarter or 2. But over time, we do think that 70% number is a good one to use in terms of SG&A as a percent of net revenue.

所以我們只是指出我們的 SG&A 成本以絕對美元計算下降了，我認為第四季度與第三季度相比略高於 100 萬美元。我們可以根據客戶的要求進一步向上或向下調整。我們只是想強調這一點，只是為了表明我們確實擁有靈活的商業模式。我們可以很快做出調整。有時需要四分之一或兩個季度。但隨著時間的推移，我們確實認為 70% 的數字對於 SG&A 占淨收入的百分比來說是一個很好的數字。

Okay. Just looking at your numbers here from your presentation, you have adjusted net revenue for this year. So for the quarter, you had it at about almost $20 million on adjusted net revenue of $22 million. 70% would be more like $15 million or $16 million, I think, or something like that. Does that mean that going forward, like in the next couple of quarters, we could expect that SG&A number to get back to -- in the neighborhood of 70% of adjusted net revenue? Or am I looking at the numbers wrong?

好的。看看你的演示文稿中的數字，你已經調整了今年的淨收入。因此，本季度調整後的淨收入為 2200 萬美元，約為 2000 萬美元。我認為 70% 更像是 1500 萬美元或 1600 萬美元，或類似的東西。這是否意味著在接下來的幾個季度中，我們可以預期 SG&A 數字將回到調整後淨收入的 70% 附近？還是我看錯了數字？

No, I think you're looking at the numbers right. It's hard to give precise guidance by quarter on something like that. But that definitely is the trend and that is where it will normalize to over time. And for example, coming out of COVID, hiring volumes and a lot of sectors in a lot of geographies increased so quickly, that I think our SG&A divided by net revenue was below 70% for a while, which is kind of an unsustainable level.

不，我認為你正在看正確的數字。很難按季度就這樣的事情給出精確的指導。但這絕對是趨勢，並且隨著時間的推移它將正常化。例如，在 COVID 之後，許多地區的招聘量和許多部門增長如此之快，以至於我認為我們的 SG&A 除以淨收入有一段時間低於 70%，這是一個不可持續的水平。

Said another way, our team was stretched incredibly thin and was working way more than kind of normal work hours. I think 1 other thing, if you look at the SG&A numbers is that you have to strip out the nonrecurring items. Sometimes, there are some nonrecurring items in the SG&A number.

換句話說，我們的團隊精疲力盡，工作時間遠遠超過正常工作時間。我認為另外一件事，如果您查看 SG&A 數字，您必須剔除非經常性項目。有時，SG&A 編號中有一些非經常性項目。

And then when I look out, I mean, we stopped giving guidance during COVID and not giving guidance for the year. But when I look out for this year, Q1 is always the slowest quarter of the year. That is largely due to our significant presence in Asia Pac. Most of Australia is at the beach in January, and you have Chinese New Year and China, Hong Kong was -- ended the year on a very weak note and started the year on a weak note.

然後當我往外看時，我的意思是，我們在 COVID 期間停止提供指導，並且沒有提供全年的指導。但當我展望今年時，第一季度始終是一年中最慢的一個季度。這主要是由於我們在亞太地區的重要影響力。澳大利亞的大部分地區在 1 月都在海灘上，還有中國新年和中國，香港——以非常疲軟的基調結束了這一年，並以疲軟的基調開始了這一年。

So Q1 is almost always the weakest quarter of the year for us and I think 2023 is going to be no exception. And then I think each quarter will show improvement versus the prior quarter. So if things go the way we think and there's no massive disruption in the economy or hiring trends or anything like that, probably the highest quarter of the year will be Q3 or Q4.

所以第一季度幾乎總是我們一年中最疲軟的季度，我認為 2023 年也不例外。然後我認為每個季度都會比上一季度有所改善。因此，如果事情按照我們的想法發展，並且經濟或招聘趨勢或類似情況沒有發生大規模中斷，那麼今年最高的季度可能是第三季度或第四季度。

And then just the way the annualization works, we entered 2022 on a really, really strong note. So we had a very strong Q1, very strong Q2 and then started seeing weakness in Q3 and further weakness into Q4. And so the comps get much easier when you get out to like Q3. And so I think we'll be having positive year-over-year comps when you get out to Q3 and Q4.

然後就像年化的運作方式一樣，我們進入 2022 年時非常非常強勁。所以我們有一個非常強勁的第一季度，非常強勁的第二季度，然後開始看到第三季度的疲軟，並在第四季度進一步疲軟。因此，當您喜歡 Q3 時，補償會變得容易得多。因此，我認為當您進入第三季度和第四季度時，我們將有積極的同比增長。

So to answer your direct question, very confident we'll be at that number sometime around the middle of the year, Q2 or Q3 in terms of 70% of net revenue, SG&A being 70% of net revenue, probably be worse than that in Q1.

所以回答你的直接問題，非常有信心我們會在今年年中的某個時候達到這個數字，Q2 或 Q3 占淨收入的 70%，SG&A 占淨收入的 70%，可能比Q1。

Okay. That's great. On your -- you said that tech and project revenue are the weak areas. I was wondering if you could break out, is that still 20% of revenue? And can you break that out by tech versus projects and give a little bit of thought on whether you think tech is anywhere near the bottom or you think it has maybe some more weakness to come? Or if you think project is just sporadic by its nature or is it being reined in more because of economic things?

好的。那太棒了。關於你——你說技術和項目收入是薄弱環節。我想知道你是否可以突破，這仍然是收入的 20%？你能否通過技術與項目來打破這一點，並考慮一下你是否認為技術已接近底部，或者你認為它可能還會有更多的弱點？或者，如果您認為項目本質上只是零星的，還是因為經濟因素而受到更多控制？

Yes, yes. All good questions. And let me just zoom out a little bit and say our original business, our bread and butter business is enterprise RPO. And that is the growth. That's the highest-value thing we do. It's typically 3-year contracts with medium to larger-sized companies. It's usually Fortune 500 companies. Most of our clients are big publicly traded companies that you've heard of.

是的是的。所有的好問題。讓我稍微縮小一點，說我們原來的業務，我們的麵包和黃油業務是企業 RPO。這就是增長。這是我們所做的最有價值的事情。它通常是與大中型公司簽訂的 3 年期合同。通常是世界 500 強公司。我們的大多數客戶都是您聽說過的大型上市公司。

We have 3 other businesses we're in that we think all help funnel business to enterprise RPO. So 1 is the contracting work we do. That is historically largely just kind of a side service we offer for our enterprise RPO clients. But there have been a few examples where we've led with contracting to build a relationship with the hope that it leads to enterprise RPO. And our biggest new business win in Q1 was exactly that. It was a contracting client that became an enterprise RPO client, so we're very, very happy about that.

我們還有其他 3 項業務，我們認為它們都有助於將業務引入企業 RPO。所以 1 是我們所做的承包工作。從歷史上看，這在很大程度上只是我們為企業 RPO 客戶提供的一種附帶服務。但是有幾個例子，我們通過簽訂合同來建立關係，希望它能帶來企業 RPO。我們在第一季度最大的新業務勝利就是這樣。這是一個成為企業 RPO 客戶的合同客戶，所以我們對此非常非常高興。

In the tech sector, most of the work we do in the tech sector came from the Coit acquisition we did in late 2020. And that's a different business model. That's more recruiter on-demand, it's more for pre-IPO companies. It can be turned on, turned off fairly quickly. And we might have a contract in place like an MSA type of contract, but it can be ramped up or ramped down.

在科技領域，我們在科技領域所做的大部分工作都來自我們在 2020 年底對 Coit 的收購。這是一種不同的商業模式。這更多的是按需招聘，更適合上市前的公司。它可以打開，很快關閉。我們可能有一份合同，如 MSA 類型的合同，但它可以增加或減少。

And a little bit similar for project work. So we're hoping -- the whole reason to do recruit on-demand in the tech sector and to do project work is to convert that to enterprise RPO. So I just wanted to kind of throw that out there. And in terms of the numbers, I think coming into 2022 a year ago, tech sector was really, really strong. Project work was very strong coming out of COVID. Companies needed as much help as they could possibly get. Enterprise RPO takes a long time to put in place. It takes a long time to study and kind of show people what it can do, and there was a big need for project work.

和項目工作有點相似。所以我們希望——在技術領域按需招聘和進行項目工作的全部原因是將其轉化為企業 RPO。所以我只是想把它扔在那裡。就數字而言，我認為進入一年前的 2022 年，科技行業真的非常強勁。來自 COVID 的項目工作非常強大。公司需要盡可能多的幫助。企業 RPO 需要很長時間才能到位。研究和向人們展示它的能力需要很長時間，而且對項目工作的需求很大。

And so coming out of COVID, we saw a tremendous amount strength in tech, a tremendous amount of strength in project work. And probably at the peak a year ago, it was probably 30% of our total and by the end of the year, it was probably down to 15% of our total. And I would split that half tech, half project. So right now today, enterprise RPO is probably 80% to 85% of what we do. And that's very, very steady and it's growing. And the big, big areas of weakness have been in that -- the tech sector and the project work.

因此，從 COVID 中脫穎而出，我們看到了技術方面的巨大優勢，以及項目工作方面的巨大優勢。可能在一年前的高峰期，它可能占我們總數的 30%，到年底，它可能下降到我們總數的 15%。我會把一半技術，一半項目分開。所以現在，企業 RPO 可能占我們所做工作的 80% 到 85%。這是非常非常穩定的，而且還在增長。很大很大的弱點在於——技術部門和項目工作。

That's very helpful. I have a question -- I've been hearing that there may be some issues with private equity in general. I just didn't know if -- can you speak to whether you're seeing any weakness or any talk of possible future concerns from your customers that are backed by private equity?

這很有幫助。我有一個問題——我一直聽說私募股權總體上可能存在一些問題。我只是不知道是否 - 你能談談你是否看到任何弱點或任何關於由私募股權支持的客戶未來可能關注的問題嗎？

Yes. Short version is we don't see that. We don't have that many clients that are backed by a private equity firm. Most of our enterprise RPO clients, like I mentioned, are big publicly traded companies. We do have 1 client, interestingly enough, and this is just an anecdote, that's owned by a PE firm. It's one of the big global PE firms and it's a European-based company, and they just acquired a publicly traded company and so we're going to get a lot more business because of that.

是的。簡短版本是我們看不到。我們沒有那麼多由私募股權公司支持的客戶。正如我提到的，我們的大多數企業 RPO 客戶都是大型上市公司。有趣的是，我們確實有一個客戶，這只是一個軼事，它屬於一家私募股權公司。它是全球最大的私募股權公司之一，也是一家總部位於歐洲的公司，他們剛剛收購了一家上市公司，因此我們將因此獲得更多業務。

So I would say the 1 client that comes to mind that is PE-Backed is doing incredibly well and just made a huge acquisition. And if there is a lot of weakness with PE-owned companies, we wouldn't really see that because we're not really exposed to that, except for maybe in the tech sector, where we do have exposure to PE- and VC-owned companies. And like I've been talking about, that's kind of balancing along at a really low level, and we've already seen the big decline and that was in Q3 and Q4.

所以我想說的是，我想到的第一個客戶是 PE 支持的，做得非常好，剛剛進行了一筆巨大的收購。如果 PE 擁有的公司有很多弱點，我們不會真正看到，因為我們並沒有真正接觸到這一點，除了可能在科技行業，我們確實接觸過 PE- 和 VC-擁有的公司。就像我一直在談論的那樣，這在一個非常低的水平上是一種平衡，我們已經看到了第三季度和第四季度的大幅下降。

Okay, that's great. I'm almost done here. Just the last 1 then, thank you, is -- do you see -- do you think this is a good time to still be considering acquisitions? Or do you -- are you more leery because of economic uncertainty? Or -- and secondly, can you talk about how your India acquisition that you did is doing?

好的，那太好了。我快完成了。那麼最後一個，謝謝，是——你看到了嗎——你認為現在仍然是考慮收購的好時機嗎？或者你 - 你是否因為經濟不確定性而更加謹慎？或者——其次，你能談談你在印度的收購進展如何嗎？

Sure. So acquisitions are a tricky thing because it takes a willing buyer and a willing seller. And so our approach is to always be in the market, always looking. We learn a lot from that approach from just being in the market and meeting with different companies and listening to their business model and how they approach the market. And the acquisitions we've done have really come from it just being the right place at the right time, a really good fit, and we had a vision where 1 plus 1 equals 3, where we could do that acquisition and we were the natural owner and we could really help accelerate their growth.

當然。所以收購是一件棘手的事情，因為它需要一個願意的買家和一個願意的賣家。因此，我們的方法是始終在市場上，一直在尋找。通過進入市場並與不同的公司會面並傾聽他們的商業模式以及他們如何進入市場，我們從這種方法中學到了很多東西。我們所做的收購確實來自於它在正確的時間出現在正確的地方，非常適合，我們有一個願景，即 1 加 1 等於 3，我們可以在那裡進行收購，我們很自然所有者和我們真的可以幫助加速他們的成長。

So that's really the key to it. So it's much more bottom-up than some macroeconomic view or trying to predict what the market is going to do or what the economy is going to do or what hiring volumes are going to do.

所以這真的是它的關鍵。因此，它比某些宏觀經濟觀點或試圖預測市場將要做什麼或經濟將要做什麼或招聘量將做什麼要自下而上得多。

And in terms of the India acquisition we made last year, that was a very, very small acquisition. We do think we got it at an attractive valuation based on their historic results. They have been impacted by the slowdown in hiring in the tech sector, but they have a very strong list of clients that they do business with, both in the past and currently. And we are winning new business in India. So it's really -- it's a very, very small acquisition but it positions us very well for what we think will be a great place to be for decades to come.

就我們去年進行的印度收購而言，那是一次非常非常小的收購。我們確實認為，根據他們的歷史業績，我們以有吸引力的估值獲得了它。他們受到了科技行業招聘放緩的影響，但他們在過去和現在都有大量與之開展業務的客戶。我們正在印度贏得新業務。所以這真的 - 這是一個非常非常小的收購，但它使我們非常適合我們認為未來幾十年將成為一個好地方。

So historically, we haven't had any offering in India. We've had employees in India but they're serving U.S. clients. And with that acquisition, we now have an offering in India, and our strategy is to work similar to what to our strategy in China, where we're working for European, U.S., U.K. multinationals who have big operations in India.

所以從歷史上看，我們在印度沒有任何產品。我們在印度有員工，但他們為美國客戶服務。通過這次收購，我們現在在印度提供產品，我們的戰略與我們在中國的戰略類似，我們在中國為在印度有大型業務的歐洲、美國、英國跨國公司工作。

That concludes today's question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the call over to Jeff Eberwein for closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。我現在想將電話轉給 Jeff Eberwein 以作結束語。

All good questions. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks for your interest in Hudson Global. Feel free to contact us any time using the contact information in our press release or on our Investor Relations website. And we look forward to updating you on next quarter's call. Have a great day.

所有的好問題。非常感謝。感謝您今天加入我們。感謝您對翰德環球的關注。請隨時使用我們的新聞稿或我們的投資者關係網站上的聯繫信息與我們聯繫。我們期待在下一季度的電話會議上為您更新。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you for joining Hudson Global's fourth quarter conference call. Today's call has been recorded and will be available on the Investors section of our website, hudsonrpo.com.

感謝您加入 Hudson Global 的第四季度電話會議。今天的電話會議已經過錄音，可以在我們網站 hudsonrpo.com 的“投資者”部分查看。