Hovnanian Enterprises Inc (HOV) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. And thank you for joining us today for Hovnanian Enterprises' 2025 third quarter earnings conference call.

早安.感謝您今天參加 Hovnanian Enterprises 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。

An archive of the webcast will be available after the completion of the call and run for 12 months. This conference is being recorded for rebroadcast, and all participants are currently in a listen-only mode. Management will be making opening remarks about the third quarter results and then open the line for questions. The company will also be webcasting a slide presentation along with the opening comments for management. The slides are available on the investors page of the company's website at www.khov.com. Those listeners who would like to follow along should now log on to the website.

網路廣播的存檔將在通話結束後提供，並保存 12 個月。本次會議正在錄製重播，所有參與者目前處於只聽模式。管理層將就第三季業績發表開場白，然後開放提問環節。該公司還將透過網路直播幻燈片演示以及管理層的開場白。幻燈片可在公司網站 www.khov.com 的投資者頁面上找到。想要跟進的聽眾現在就可以登入該網站。

I would like to turn the call over to Jeff O'Keefe, Vice President, Investor Relations. Jeff, please go ahead.

我想將電話轉給投資者關係副總裁 Jeff O'Keefe。傑夫，請繼續。

Thank you, Michelle. And thank you all for participating in this morning's call to review the results for our third quarter.

謝謝你，米歇爾。感謝大家參加今天早上的電話會議，回顧我們第三季的業績。

All statements in this conference call that are not historical facts should be considered as forward-looking statements within the meaning of the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such statements involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors that may cause actual results, performance, or achievements of the company to be materially different from any future results, performance, or achievements expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements. Such forward-looking statements include, but are not limited to, statements related to the company's goals and expectations with respect to its financial results for future financial periods. Although we believe that our plans, intentions, and expectations reflected and are suggested by such forward-looking statements are reasonable, we can give no assurance that such plans, intentions, or expectations will be achieved. By their nature, forward-looking statements speak only as to the date they are made, are not guarantees of future performance or results, and are subject to risks and certainties and assumptions that are difficult to predict or quantify. Therefore, actual results could differ materially and adversely from those forward-looking statements as a result of a variety of factors. Such risks, uncertainties, and other factors are described in detail in the sections entitled Risk factors and Management Discussion and Analysis, particularly the portion of MD&A entitled Safe Harbor Statement and our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended October 31, 2024, and subsequent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Except as otherwise required by applicable security laws, we undertake no obligation to public update or revise any forward-looking statements or whether -- or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or change of circumstances or any other reason.

本次電話會議中所有非歷史事實的陳述均應被視為《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法》安全港條款所定義的前瞻性陳述。此類陳述涉及已知和未知的風險、不確定性和其他因素，可能導致本公司的實際結果、績效或成就與前瞻性陳述表達或暗示的任何未來結果、績效或成就有重大差異。此類前瞻性陳述包括但不限於與本公司未來財務期間的財務表現目標和預期相關的陳述。儘管我們相信這些前瞻性陳述所反映和暗示的計劃、意圖和期望是合理的，但我們不能保證這些計劃、意圖或期望能夠實現。就其性質而言，前瞻性陳述僅說明其所作的日期，並不保證未來的業績或結果，並且受難以預測或量化的風險、確定性和假設的影響。因此，由於各種因素，實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述有重大不利差異。此類風險、不確定性和其他因素在題為“風險因素”和“管理層討論與分析”的章節中有詳細描述，特別是 MD&A 中題為“安全港聲明”的部分和我們截至 2024 年 10 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K 表年度報告以及隨後向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。除非適用的證券法另有要求，否則我們不承擔公開更新或修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務，也不承擔因新資訊、未來事件、情況變化或任何其他原因而修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

Joining me today on the call are Ara Hovnanian, Chairman and President and CEO; Brad O'Connor, Chief Financial Officer; David Mitrisin, Vice President, Corporate Controller; and Paul Eberly, Vice President, Finance and Treasurer. Ara, you can go ahead.

今天參加電話會議的還有董事長兼總裁兼執行長 Ara Hovnanian、財務長 Brad O'Connor、公司財務長副總裁 David Mitrisin 和財務副總裁兼財務長 Paul Eberly。啊，你可以繼續了。

Thanks, Jeff. I'm going to review our third quarter results and I'll also comment on the current housing environment. Brad will follow me with more details, as usual, and of course, we'll open it up to Q&A afterwards.

謝謝，傑夫。我將回顧我們第三季的業績，並對當前的住房環境發表評論。像往常一樣，布拉德將向我介紹更多細節，當然，之後我們將開放問答環節。

Let me begin on slide 5. Here, we show our third quarter guidance compared to our actual results. Given all of the political and economic uncertainty that was present throughout the quarter, we're pleased that we met or exceeded the guidance we provided for all of the metrics.

我從第 5 張投影片開始。這裡我們展示了第三季的指導與實際結果的比較。考慮到整個季度存在的所有政治和經濟不確定性，我們很高興達到或超越了我們為所有指標提供的指導。

Starting at the top of the slide, revenues were $801 million, which was right at the midpoint of our guidance. Our adjusted gross margin was 17.3% for the quarter, which was just below the midpoint of the guidance range. Our SG&A ratio was 11.3%, which was better than the midpoint of our guidance. Our income from unconsolidated joint ventures was $16 million, which was within the guidance range, although on the lower end. Adjusted EBITDA was $77 million for the quarter, which was above the high end of the guidance range. And finally, our adjusted pre-tax income was $40 million, which was at the very top of our guidance range.

從投影片頂部開始，收入為 8.01 億美元，正好處於我們預期的中間值。本季我們的調整後毛利率為 17.3%，略低於指引範圍的中點。我們的銷售、一般及行政開支比率為 11.3%，高於我們的預期中位數。我們從非合併合資企業獲得的收入為 1600 萬美元，雖然處於較低水平，但仍在指導範圍內。本季調整後的 EBITDA 為 7,700 萬美元，高於預期範圍的高階。最後，我們的調整後稅前收入為 4000 萬美元，處於我們的指導範圍的最高水平。

While this is adjusted pre-tax income which excludes land charges, we did have higher walkaway costs and impairment charges during this year's third quarter. The majority of the impairments were in the West segment and were related to communities where we also walked away from land that we didn't -- that didn't meet our return thresholds. Again, given the challenging operating environment, we're satisfied that we are able to meet or exceed the guidance we provided.

雖然這是不包括土地費用的調整後稅前收入，但今年第三季我們的放棄成本和減損費用確實較高。大部分損害發生在西部地區，與我們放棄的未達到回報門檻的土地有關的社區。再次，考慮到充滿挑戰的營運環境，我們很高興能夠達到或超越我們提供的指導。

On slide 6, we show our third quarter results compared to last year's third quarter. Keep in mind that last year's third quarter was particularly strong, partly because it contained $46 million from a gain on consolidation of a joint venture. As Brad will discuss later, we anticipate yet another gain from consolidation of a joint venture in the fourth quarter.

在第 6 張投影片上，我們展示了我們第三季的業績與去年第三季的業績相比的情況。請記住，去年第三季表現尤其強勁，部分原因是它包含了 4,600 萬美元的合資企業合併收益。正如布拉德稍後將要討論的那樣，我們預計第四季度合資企業的合併還將帶來另一項收益。

Given the current high level of incentives, it's no surprise that adjusted gross margin and adjusted pre-tax profit experienced year-over-year declines. Starting in the upper left-hand portion of the slide, you can see that our total revenues increased 11% year over year due to an increase in deliveries. Moving across the top to adjusted gross margin, our gross margin was down year over year, mainly due to increased incentives for affordability, and also related to our focus on pace versus price and our short-term strategy of burning through low margin lots.

鑑於目前的高水準激勵，調整後的毛利率和調整後的稅前利潤同比下降也就不足為奇了。從投影片的左上角開始，您可以看到由於交付量的增加，我們的總收入年增了 11%。調整後的毛利率最高，與去年同期相比有所下降，主要是因為消費者對可負擔能力的激勵措施增加，也與我們注重速度而非價格以及短期內消耗低利潤地段的策略有關。

During this year's third quarter, incentives were 11.6% of the average sales price. The majority of this cost is related to buying down mortgage rates. This is up 390 basis points from a year ago. It's up 110 basis points from the second quarter of '25, and it's up 860 basis points from fiscal year '22, which was prior to the mortgage rate spike impacting our deliveries. Other than the extraordinary cost to buydown mortgage rates to make our homes affordable today, our gross margin would be very healthy.

今年第三季度，激勵措施佔平均銷售價格的 11.6%。這筆費用的大部分與降低抵押貸款利率有關。比一年前上漲了 390 個基點。與 2025 年第二季度相比上漲了 110 個基點，與 2022 財年相比上漲了 860 個基點，這是在抵押貸款利率飆升影響我們交付之前。除了降低抵押貸款利率以使我們的房屋價格變得可負擔之外，我們的毛利率非常可觀。

Moving to the bottom left, you can see that our total SG&A improved 110 basis points year over year to 11.3%. In the bottom right-hand portion of the slide, you can see the negative impact the gross margin decline had on our year-over-year profitability. Again, while much lower than last year, it was at the top of our guidance range, which was consistent with our focus on burning through our older vintage lots and QMIs and emphasizing sales pace over price and clearing our balance sheet for our newer land contracts which have much higher margins.

移至左下角，您可以看到我們的總銷售、一般及行政費用年增了 110 個基點，達到 11.3%。在幻燈片的右下角，您可以看到毛利率下降對我們的年比獲利能力的負面影響。再次，雖然遠低於去年，但它處於我們的指導範圍的頂部，這與我們專注於消耗舊的古董地段和 QMI、強調銷售速度而不是價格以及為利潤率更高的新土地合約清理資產負債表的重點一致。

If you turn to slide 7, you can see that contracts for the third quarter increased 1% year over year. Once again, there was considerable variability in monthly sales shown on slide 8. Contracts were down 4% in May, then bounced back with a 1% increase in June, and followed by a 7% increase in July. On slide 9, you can see that the most recent three months continued a trend of choppiness over the last year.

如果您翻到第 7 張投影片，您會看到第三季的合約年增了 1%。再次，第 8 張投影片顯示的月銷售額存在相當大的差異。5 月合約數量下降了 4%，6 月反彈並上漲了 1%，7 月又上漲了 7%。在第 9 張投影片上，您可以看到最近三個月延續了去年的波動趨勢。

If you turn to slide 10, you can see that contracts per community increased this year compared to last year's third quarter. Additionally, the 9.8 contracts per community in this year's third quarter was higher than our quarterly average of 9.1 for the third quarter since 2008, but we didn't get back to the '97 through '02 levels that we consider to be a normal sales environment.

如果您翻到第 10 張投影片，您會看到今年每個社區的合約數量與去年第三季相比有所增加。此外，今年第三季每個社區的合約數量為 9.8 份，高於 2008 年以來第三季的季度平均值 9.1 份，但我們尚未恢復到 1997 年至 1902 年的正常銷售環境水準。

On slide 11, we give more granularity and show the trend of monthly contracts per community compared to the same month a year ago and to long-term monthly averages. Here, you can see that for the first two months of the quarter this year's sales pace was lower than last year. This trend flipped in the month of July when we sold 3.4 homes per community compared to 3.2 homes in July of '24. When you look at the most recent month compared to the monthly average since 2008, the last two months of the quarter were better than the long-term average.

在幻燈片 11 中，我們提供了更詳細的信息，並展示了與去年同期和長期月平均值相比每個社區的月度合約趨勢。在這裡，您可以看到今年本季前兩個月的銷售速度低於去年。這一趨勢在 7 月發生了逆轉，我們每個社區售出了 3.4 套房屋，而 24 年 7 月為 3.2 套。如果將最近一個月與 2008 年以來的月平均值進行比較，就會發現本季最後兩個月的表現優於長期平均值。

Turning to slide 12, we show contracts per community as if we had a June 30 quarter end. This way, we can compare our results to our peers that report contracts per community on the calendar quarter end. At 9.6 contracts per community, our sales pace is the third highest among the public homebuilders.

翻到第 12 張投影片，我們展示了每個社區的合約狀況，就好像我們有一個截至 6 月 30 日的季度末一樣。這樣，我們可以將我們的結果與在日曆季度結束時報告每個社區的合約的同行進行比較。我們的銷售速度為每社區 9.6 份合同，在公共房屋建築商中排名第三。

On slide 13, you can see that year-to-year contracts per community decline for all homebuilders shown on the slide that report this metric. While any decline is not desirable, we outperformed all but two of our peers. Again, this was as if our quarter ended in June so that we can compare our results to these other companies. Our July quarter was stronger with a 3% year-over-year increase in contracts per community. And the month of July was up 6% over the prior year in contracts per community. What we're trying to illustrate in these last two slides is that even though the recent sales pace is not what everyone had hoped for, our focus on pace over price has resulted in an above-average number of contracts per community for us compared to our peers.

在第 13 張投影片上，您可以看到，對於報告此指標的所有房屋建築商而言，每個社區的年度合約數量都在下降。儘管任何下滑都是不可取的，但我們的表現優於除兩家之外的所有同行。再次強調，這就好像我們的季度在六月結束一樣，以便我們可以將我們的結果與其他公司進行比較。我們的 7 月季度表現更為強勁，每個社區的合約數量年增 3%。7月每個社區的合約數量比去年同期增加了6%。在最後兩張投影片中我們試圖說明的是，儘管最近的銷售速度並不像每個人所希望的那樣，但我們對速度而非價格的關注使得我們每個社區的合約數量高於同行的平均水平。

On slide 14, you can see that for a considerable percentage of our deliveries, our home buyers continued to utilize mortgage rate buydowns. The percentage of home buyers using buydowns in this year's third quarter was 75%. The buydown usage in our deliveries indicates that buyers continue to rely on these home -- on these rate buydowns to combat affordability at the current mortgage rates. Given the persistently high mortgage rate environment, we assume buydowns will remain at similar levels going forward. In order to meet home buyers' needs for lower mortgage rates and certainty, we're intentionally operating at an elevated level of quick movement homes, or QMIs as we call them, since QMIs with the delivery date in 60 to 90 days can have mortgage rates bought down and lost in a cost-efficient manner.

在第 14 張投影片上，您可以看到，在我們交付的相當一部分房屋中，我們的購屋者繼續利用抵押貸款利率買斷。今年第三季度，採用買斷方式的購屋者比例為 75%。我們交付的房屋的買斷使用情況表明，買家繼續依賴這些房屋——這些利率買斷來應對當前抵押貸款利率下的負擔能力。鑑於抵押貸款利率持續居高不下，我們預計未來買斷率將維持在類似水準。為了滿足購屋者對較低抵押貸款利率和確定性的需求，我們有意提高快速流動房屋（QMI）的供應水平，因為交付日期在 60 至 90 天內的 QMI 可以以經濟高效的方式降低抵押貸款利率。

On slide 15, we show that we had 8.2 QMIs per community at the end of the third quarter. This is the second consecutive quarter of sequential reductions in QMI per community. We're down from 9.3 in the first quarter of '25 to 8.6 in the second quarter of '25, to 8.2 in the third quarter. This gets us closer to our current target of about 8 QMIs per community with varied delivery dates and model types. As a reminder, we define QMIs as any unsold home where we've begun framing.

在投影片 15 上，我們顯示第三季末每個社區有 8.2 個 QMI。這是每個社區的 QMI 連續第二季下降。我們從 2025 年第一季的 9.3 下降到第二季的 8.6，再下降到第三季的 8.2。這使我們更接近目前的目標，即每個社區約 8 個 QMI，交付日期和模型類型各異。提醒一下，我們將 QMI 定義為任何已開始建造框架的未售出房屋。

On slide 16, we showed the decline in total QMIs from January '25 until July of '25. Here you can see that QMIs decreased from 1,163 in January to 1,073 in April, and then to 1,016 in July. This is a 13% decrease from January to July.

在投影片 16 上，我們展示了從 25 年 1 月到 25 年 7 月 QMI 總量的下降。在這裡您可以看到 QMI 從 1 月的 1,163 下降到 4 月的 1,073，然後又下降到 7 月的 1,016。從一月到七月，這一數字下降了 13%。

In the third quarter of '25, QMI sales were 79% of our total sales. This was equal to last quarter, which was the highest quarter since we started reporting this number 12 quarters ago. Historically, that percentage was 40%, about half. So obviously, the demand for QMIs remains high, so we're comfortable with the current level of QMIs in this environment. We ended the third quarter with 323 finished QMIs. On a per-community basis, that puts us at 2.6 finished QMIs per community. The focus on quick-moving homes results in more contracts that are signed and delivered in the same quarter. That leads to lower levels of backlog at quarter ends, but a higher backlog conversion rate.

2025 年第三季度，QMI 的銷售額占我們總銷售額的 79%。這與上一季持平，上一季是我們 12 個季度前開始報告這一數字以來的最高季度。從歷史上看，這個比例是40%，大約是一半。因此顯然，對 QMI 的需求仍然很高，因此我們對當前環境下 QMI 的水平感到滿意。第三季結束時，我們已完成 323 個 QMI。以每個社區計算，每個社區已完成 2.6 個 QMI。對快速銷售房屋的關注導致同一季度簽署和交付的合約更多。這會導致季度末積壓訂單水準降低，但積壓訂單轉換率提高。

During the third quarter of '25, 34% of our homes delivered in the quarter were contracted in the same quarter. This obviously makes it a little more challenging when providing guidance for the next quarter. It also resulted in a high backlog conversion ratio of 84%, which is significantly higher than the third quarter average backlog conversion ratio of 55% going all the way back to 1998. We continue to manage our QMIs on a community level and we're highly focused on matching our QMI starts pace with our QMI sales pace.

2025 年第三季度，我們交付的房屋中有 34% 是在同一季度簽訂的合約。這顯然使得為下一季提供指導變得更具挑戰性。這也使得積壓訂單轉換率高達 84%，明顯高於 1998 年以來第三季 55% 的平均積壓訂單轉換率。我們繼續在社區層級管理我們的 QMI，並且高度專注於使我們的 QMI 啟動速度與我們的 QMI 銷售速度相符。

If you move to slide 17, you can see that even with higher mortgage rates and a slower-than-anticipated sales pace nationally, we are still able to raise net prices in 21% of our communities during the third quarter. 71% of the communities with price increases were in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, South Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia, which are among our better-performing markets. While the sales environment has been difficult, we've been focusing on pace versus price, as we have been for many quarters now, but we're still raising prices and lowering incentives when our sales pace at certain communities warrants it.

如果您翻到第 17 張投影片，您會看到，即使全國抵押貸款利率上升且銷售速度低於預期，我們仍然能夠在第三季提高 21% 社區的淨價格。 71% 價格上漲的社區位於德拉瓦州、馬裡蘭州、新澤西州、南卡羅來納州、維吉尼亞州和西維吉尼亞州，這些是我們表現較好的市場。儘管銷售環境很艱難，但我們一直將重點放在速度而不是價格上，就像我們已經做了許多季度一樣，但當我們在某些​​社區的銷售速度需要時，我們仍然會提高價格並降低激勵措施。

Economic uncertainty, high mortgage rates, affordability, and low consumer confidence have caused many consumers to delay purchasing a new home. To increase our sales pace and make our homes affordable, we continue to offer mortgage rate buydowns. Our gross margins, ignoring the mortgage rate incentives, continue to be strong. However, offering mortgage rate buydowns is very expensive and continues to negatively impact our gross margin at many locations. Our new land purchases show excellent margins at the current sales pace and price, and excellent IRRs even after the expense of buydowns.

經濟不確定性、高抵押貸款利率、負擔能力以及低消費者信心導致許多消費者推遲購買新房屋。為了加快銷售速度並使我們的房屋價格更實惠，我們繼續提供抵押貸款利率降低服務。即使不考慮抵押貸款利率激勵，我們的毛利率仍然保持強勁。然而，提供抵押貸款利率降低的成本非常高，並且會繼續對我們在許多地方的毛利率產生負面影響。我們新購買的土地在目前的銷售速度和價格下顯示出極好的利潤率，即使在支付了買斷費用之後，內部收益率仍然很高。

I'll now turn it over to Brad O'Connor, our Chief Financial Officer.

現在我將把發言權交給我們的財務長布拉德‧奧康納 (Brad O'Connor)。

Thank you, Ara. Turning to slide 18, you can see that we ended the quarter with a total of 146 open-for-sale communities, which is the same total as last year's third quarter. 124 of those communities were wholly owned. During the third quarter, we opened 25 new wholly owned communities and sold out of 26 wholly owned communities. Additionally, we had 22 domestic unconsolidated joint venture communities at the end of the third quarter. We closed one during the quarter.

謝謝你，阿拉。翻到第 18 張投影片，您可以看到，本季結束時我們共有 146 個待售社區，與去年第三季的總數相同。其中 124 個社區為全資擁有。第三季度，我們新開設了25個全資社區，26個全資社區全部售罄。此外，截至第三季末，我們擁有 22 個國內非合併合資社區。我們在本季度關閉了一個。

We continue to experience delays in opening new communities, primarily related to utility hookups and permitting delays throughout the country. We do expect community count will grow sequentially in the fourth quarter of fiscal '25.

我們在開設新社區方面繼續遇到延誤，主要與全國各地的公用設施連接和許可延誤有關。我們確實預計 25 財年第四季社區數量將季增。

The leading indicator for further community count growth is shown on slide 19. We ended the quarter with 40,246 controlled lots, which equates to a seven-year supply of controlled lots. Our lot count increased 2% year over year, but 36% from two years ago. If you include lots from our domestic unconsolidated joint ventures, we now control 43,343 lots.

投影片 19 顯示了社群數量進一步增長的領先指標。本季結束時，我們的受控批次數量為 40,246 個，相當於七年的受控批次供應量。我們的批次數量年增了 2%，但比兩年前增加了 36%。如果算上我們國內未合併合資企業的地塊，我們現在控制著 43,343 個地塊。

We added 3,500 lots in 30 future communities during the third quarter. Our land teams are actively engaging with land sellers, negotiating for new land parcels that meet our underwriting standards, even with high incentives and the current sales pace.

我們在第三季在 30 個未來社區增加了 3,500 個地塊。我們的土地團隊正在積極與土地賣家接洽，協商符合我們承保標準的新地塊，即使有很高的激勵措施和目前的銷售速度。

In fiscal '24, we began talking about our pivot to growth. This followed a stretch of several years when we had used a significant amount of cash generated to pay down debt. One interesting trend to point out about the growth on this slide, our lot options grew by more than 13,000, and our lots owned shrunk by more than 2,400 lots as we continue to focus on our land-light strategy.

在 24 財年，我們開始談論轉向成長。在此之前的幾年裡，我們用了大量的現金來償還債務。關於這張投影片的成長，有一個有趣的趨勢值得指出：隨著我們繼續專注於輕土地策略，我們的地塊選擇增加了 13,000 多個，而我們擁有的地塊減少了 2,400 多個。

On the far-right side of slide 20, you can see that our lot count decreased sequentially for the second quarter in a row. These recent declines are reflective of the operating environment. We are definitely being more selective with the new lots that we control during these last two quarters, and we also walked away from about 6,500 lots during the same two quarters, including 4,059 lots in the third quarter. Having said that, we were able to put 6,500 lots under contract in the last two quarters that met or exceeded our margin and IRR hurdle rates, even after factoring in our current high level of incentives.

在第 20 張投影片的最右側，您可以看到我們的批次數量連續第二季較上季下降。最近的下降反映了經營環境。在過去兩個季度中，我們對控制的新地塊更加挑剔，我們在這兩個季度中也放棄了約 6,500 個地塊，其中包括第三季的 4,059 個地塊。話雖如此，即使考慮到我們目前的高水平激勵措施，我們在過去兩個季度仍然能夠簽訂 6,500 份合同，達到或超過了我們的保證金和 IRR 最低利率。

On slide 21, we show our land and land development spend for each quarter going back five years. You can see for much of the time shown on this slide how that pivot to growth impacted our land and land development spend. However, for the past two quarters, you can see decreases due to the current market environment. This is another indication of our discipline in underwriting new land acquisitions.

在投影片 21 上，我們展示了過去五年內每季的土地和土地開發支出。您可以在這張投影片的大部分時間看到，成長重點如何影響了我們的土地和土地開發支出。然而，在過去兩個季度，由於當前的市場環境，您可以看到銷售額下降。這再次顯示了我們在承保新土地收購方面的紀律性。

Again, we always use current home prices, including the current high level of mortgage rate buydowns and other incentives, current construction costs, and current sales space to underwrite to a 20%-plus internal rate of return. And then right before we are about to acquire the lots, we re-underwrite them based on the then-current conditions just to be sure that it still makes sense to go forward with the land purchase. We feel good that our new acquisitions will yield solid IRR since we are building in huge incentives and a slower sales pace. Our underwriting standards automatically adjust to any changes in market conditions.

再次強調，我們始終使用當前房價，包括當前高水準的抵押貸款利率減免和其他激勵措施、當前建築成本和當前銷售空間來承保 20% 以上的內部收益率。然後，就在我們即將收購地塊之前，我們會根據當時的情況重新承保，以確保繼續購買土地仍然是合理的。我們很高興看到，由於我們正在建立巨大的激勵機制並放慢銷售速度，我們的新收購將產生穩定的內部報酬率。我們的承保標準會根據市場條件的任何變化自動調整。

We are still finding opportunities in our markets and are very focused on growing our top and bottom lines for the long term, but we are not stretching to make deals work. We are being very disciplined. Thus, we would expect our land and land development spend in the fourth quarter will be significantly less than last year.

我們仍在市場中尋找機會，並非常注重長期增加我們的營業收入和利潤，但我們不會竭盡全力使交易成功。我們非常自律。因此，我們預計第四季的土地和土地開發支出將大大低於去年。

On slide 22, we show the percentage of our lots controlled via option increased from 46% in the third quarter of fiscal '15 to 86% in the third quarter of fiscal '25. This is the highest percentage of option lots we've ever had, continuing our strategic focus on land-light.

在投影片 22 中，我們展示了透過選擇權控制的地塊百分比從 2015 財年第三季的 46% 增加到了 2025 財年第三季的 86%。這是我們有史以來擁有的最高比例的選擇地塊，延續了我們對輕型土地的戰略重點。

Turning now to slide 23, you see that we continue to have one of the highest percentages of land control via option compared to our peers. Needless to say, with the fourth-highest percentage of option lots, we are significantly above the median.

現在翻到第 23 張投影片，您會看到，與同行相比，我們透過選擇權繼續擁有最高比例的土地控制權之一。毋庸置疑，我們的選擇權份額佔第四，遠高於中位數。

On slide 24, compared to our peers, we have the third-highest inventory turnover rate. High inventory turns are a key component of our overall strategy. We believe we have opportunities to continue to increase our use of land options and further improve our inventory turns in future periods. Our focus on pace versus price is evident here.

在投影片 24 上，與同業相比，我們的庫存週轉率排名第三。高庫存週轉率是我們整體策略的關鍵組成部分。我們相信，我們有機會在未來繼續增加土地選擇的利用，並進一步提高庫存週轉率。我們對速度而非價格的關注由此可見一斑。

Turning to slide 25, even after spending $193 million on land and land development, we ended the third quarter with $278 million of liquidity, which is well above our targeted liquidity range.

翻到第 25 張投影片，即使在土地和土地開發上花費了 1.93 億美元，我們在第三季結束時仍擁有 2.78 億美元的流動資金，遠高於我們的目標流動資金範圍。

Turning to slide 26, this slide shows our maturity ladder as of July 31, 2025. Keep in mind that during the second quarter, we paid off early the remaining $27 million of the 13.5% notes, our highest-cost debt, that was scheduled to mature in February of 2026. This is the latest example of the steps we've taken over the past several years to improve our maturity ladder and reduce our interest costs. We remain committed to further strengthening our balance sheet going forward.

翻到第 26 張投影片，這張投影片展示了我們截至 2025 年 7 月 31 日的成熟度階梯。請記住，在第二季度，我們提前償還了剩餘的 2,700 萬美元 13.5% 票據，這是我們成本最高的債務，原定於 2026 年 2 月到期。這是我們過去幾年來為改善我們的到期階梯和降低我們的利息成本而採取的措施的最新例證。我們將繼續致力於進一步加強我們的資產負債表。

Turning to slide 27, we show the progress we've made to date to grow our equity and reduce our debt. Starting on the upper left-hand part of the slide, we show the $1.3-billion growth in equity over the past few years. During that same time period, on the upper right-hand portion, you can see the $769 million reduction in debt. On the bottom of the slide, you can see that our net debt, the net cap at the end of the third quarter of fiscal '25, was 47.9%, which is a significant improvement from our 146.2% at the beginning of fiscal '20. We still have more work to do to achieve our goal of 30%, but we are comfortable that we are on a path to achieve our targets soon.

翻到第 27 張投影片，我們展示了迄今為止我們在增加股權和減少債務方面所取得的進展。從幻燈片的左上角開始，我們展示了過去幾年 13 億美元的股權成長。在同一時間段內，在右上角，您可以看到債務減少了 7.69 億美元。在投影片的底部，您可以看到我們的淨債務，即 25 財年第三季末的淨上限，為 47.9%，與 20 財年年初的 146.2% 相比有了顯著改善。要實現 30% 的目標，我們還有很多工作要做，但我們確信我們很快就會走上實現目標的道路。

Before we move on, I want to comment briefly on our interest expense for the quarter. Our interest expense as the percentage of total revenues increased year over year in the third quarter to 4.2% compared with 4% in the prior year's third quarter, despite reductions in our debt balance. This increase was predominantly due to a year-over-year increase in land banking arrangements under inventory not owned. Note that when we land bank inventory after we already purchased the lots, we must reflect the transaction as a financing, showing the inventory and inventory not owned and the cash received as a liability from inventory not owned. The cost paid to the land banker in this situation is shown as interest expense.

在我們繼續之前，我想簡要評論一下本季度的利息支出。儘管我們的債務餘額有所減少，但第三季我們的利息支出佔總收入的百分比年增至 4.2%，而去年同期為 4%。這一增長主要是由於非自有庫存土地儲備安排同比增長。請注意，當我們在購買地塊後儲備庫存時，我們必須將交易反映為融資，顯示庫存和非自有庫存，並將收到的現金顯示為非自有庫存的負債。在這種情況下支付給土地銀行的費用顯示為利息費用。

When the land banker purchases the land directly from the seller, the cost paid to the land banker is shown as part of land costs and costs of sales. The latter cases are more common approach, but sometimes we are unable to align the timing of the purchase with the land banker, and therefore we own the lots for a short period of time before the land banker buys them. While land banking is more expensive than debt, the downside risk is lower and more significant market downturns.

當土地銀行家直接從賣方購買土地時，支付給土地銀行家的費用顯示為土地成本和銷售成本的一部分。後一種情況是更常見的方法，但有時我們無法與土地銀行協調購買時間，因此在土地銀行購買之前，我們會短暫地擁有這些地塊。雖然土地儲備比債務成本更高，但下行風險較低且市場低迷更為嚴重。

Given our remaining $221 million of deferred tax assets, we will not have to pay federal income taxes on approximately $700 million of future pre-tax earnings. This benefit will continue to significantly enhance our cash flow in years to come, and will accelerate our growth plans.

鑑於我們剩餘的 2.21 億美元遞延稅項資產，我們將不必為未來約 7 億美元的稅前收益繳納聯邦所得稅。這項好處將在未來幾年繼續顯著增強我們的現金流，並將加速我們的成長計劃。

Regarding guidance, given the volatility and the difficulty in projecting margins with moving interest rates and volatility in general, we will focus our guidance only on the next quarter. Our financial guidance assumes no adverse changes in current market conditions, including no further deterioration in our supply chain or material increases in mortgage rates, tariffs, inflation, or cancellation rates. Our guidance assumes continued extended construction cycle times averaging five months compared to our pre-COVID cycle times for construction of approximately four months.

至於指引，考慮到波動性以及在利率變動和整體波動的情況下預測利潤率的難度，我們將只關注下一季的指引。我們的財務指導假設當前市場條件不會發生不利變化，包括我們的供應鏈不會進一步惡化，或抵押貸款利率、關稅、通貨膨脹或取消率不會大幅增加。我們的指導假設施工週期將繼續延長，平均為五個月，而新冠疫情之前的施工週期約為四個月。

As we continue to be more reliant on QMI sales, forecasting profits becomes more difficult. We recognize that we beat pre-tax guidance in the first quarter and perform at the very high end of the guidance range in the second and third quarters. Notwithstanding the challenge of projecting even one quarter in this environment, we endeavor to provide guidance that we can meet, and if situations are ideal, beat. Our guidance assumes continued use of mortgage rate buydowns and other incentives similar in recent months. Further, it excludes any impact to SG&A expenses from our phantom stock expense related solely to the stock price movement from the $119.47 stock price at the end of the third quarter of fiscal '25.

隨著我們越來越依賴 QMI 的銷售，預測利潤變得更加困難。我們認識到，我們在第一季的業績超過了稅前預期，並且在第二季和第三季的業績達到了預期範圍的最高水平。儘管在這種環境下預測即使一個季度的業績都充滿挑戰，我們仍會盡力提供能夠滿足的指導，如果情況理想，我們甚至可以超越。我們的指導假設繼續使用抵押貸款利率降低和近幾個月來類似的其他激勵措施。此外，它還不包括虛擬股票費用對銷售、一般及行政費用 (SG&A) 的影響，該費用僅與 2025 財年第三季末的 119.47 美元股價變動有關。

Slide 28 shows our guidance for the fourth quarter of fiscal '25 compared to actual results for the third quarter of '25. Our expectation for total revenues for the fourth quarter is between $750 million and $850 million. The midpoint of our total revenue guidance would be the same as the third quarter.

投影片 28 顯示了我們對 25 財年第四季的指引與 25 財年第三季的實際結果的比較。我們預計第四季的總營收將在 7.5 億美元至 8.5 億美元之間。我們總營收預期的中點與第三季相同。

Adjusted gross margin is expected to be in the range of 15% to 16.5%. This is lower than our typical gross margin, particularly because of the increased cost of mortgage rate buydowns and our focus on pace versus price.

調整後的毛利率預計在15%至16.5%之間。這低於我們典型的毛利率，特別是因為抵押貸款利率降低的成本增加以及我們對速度而非價格的關注。

We expect the range of SG&A as a percentage of total revenues to be between 11% and 12%, which is still higher than usual. One of the reasons the SG&A is running a little high is that we are gearing up for significant community count growth, and we have to make new hires in advance of those communities.

我們預計銷售、一般及行政費用佔總收入的百分比將在 11% 至 12% 之間，這仍然高於平時。銷售、一般及行政費用 (SG&A) 偏高的原因之一是，我們正在為社區數量的大幅增長做準備，我們必須在這些社區之前招募新員工。

Our expectations for adjusted pre-tax income for the fourth quarter is between $45 million and $55 million. This would be down from last year, but up from our third quarter. This includes the expectation of other income from the consolidation of a joint venture in the fourth quarter, when the partner is expected to reach their full return of all capital as prescribed in the JV agreement. As a reminder, this has become a normal part of the life cycle of our joint ventures, as we have had other income from JV-related transactions 3 times in the past nine quarters.

我們預計第四季度調整後的稅前收入將在 4,500 萬美元至 5,500 萬美元之間。這比去年同期有所下降，但比第三季有所上升。這包括第四季度合資企業合併產生的其他收入預期，屆時合作夥伴預計將按照合資協議的規定全額返還所有資本。提醒一下，這已經成為我們合資企業生命週期的正常組成部分，因為在過去的九個季度中，我們有三次從合資企業相關交易中獲得了其他收入。

Moving to slide 29, we show all of the guidance we gave for the fourth quarter. The only two lines on here that we have not mentioned are income from unconsolidated joint ventures and adjusted EBITDA. We expect income from joint ventures to be between $8 million and $12 million. And our guidance for adjusted EBITDA is between $77 million and $87 million.

轉到幻燈片 29，我們展示了針對第四季度給出的所有指導。這裡我們唯一沒有提到的兩行是來自非合併合資企業的收入和調整後的 EBITDA。我們預計合資企業的收入將在 800 萬美元至 1200 萬美元之間。我們對調整後的 EBITDA 的預期是在 7,700 萬美元至 8,700 萬美元之間。

Starting to slide 30, we show that our return on equity was 19%. Over the last 12 months, we are the second highest amongst our mid-sized peers, shown in the dark green on this slide, and the fourth highest including the larger peer group. Obviously, this is helped by our higher leverage.

從第 30 頁開始，我們顯示我們的股本回報率為 19%。在過去的 12 個月中，我們在中型同行中排名第二，如幻燈片中的深綠色所示，在較大的同行群體中排名第四。顯然，這得益於我們更高的槓桿率。

On slide 31, we show that compared to our peers, we have one of the highest adjusted EBITDA returns on investment at 22.1%. On this basis, we are the highest amongst the mid-sized peers and fifth highest overall. While our ROE was helped by our leverage, our adjusted EBIT return on investment is a true measure of pure homebuilding operating performance. Over the last several years, we've consistently had one of the highest ROIs and ROEs among our peers.

在投影片 31 中，我們表明，與同業相比，我們的調整後 EBITDA 投資回報率最高，達到 22.1%。以此計算，我們在中型同業中排名最高，整體排名第五。雖然我們的 ROE 得益於我們的槓桿作用，但我們調整後的 EBIT 投資回報率才是純住宅建築營運績效的真實衡量標準。在過去幾年中，我們的投資報酬率 (ROI) 和淨資產收益率 (ROE) 一直位居同業前列。

On slide 32, we show our price-to-book value compared to our peers, and we are slightly higher than the median for all of the peers shown on the slide.

在第 32 張投影片上，我們展示了我們與同行相比的市淨率，並且我們比幻燈片上顯示的所有同行的中位數略高。

On slide 33, we show the trailing 12-month price to earnings ratio for us and our peer group. Based on our price to earnings multiple of 7.24 times using Wednesday's stock price of $148.95, we are trading at a 31% discount to the homebuilding industry average P/E ratio if you consider all public builders, and an 18% discount when considering our mid-sized peers, even though we have the highest ROI among the mid-sized peers. We recognize that our stock may trade at a discount to the group because of our higher leverage, but our leverage has been shrinking and our equity has been growing rapidly.

在幻燈片 33 上，我們展示了我們和同行過去 12 個月的本益比。根據我們 7.24 倍的本益比（使用週三 148.95 美元的股價），如果考慮所有公共建築商，我們的市盈率比住宅建築行業平均市盈率低 31%，如果考慮我們的中型同行，我們的市盈率比住宅建築行業平均市盈率低 18%，儘管我們的投資回報率在中型同行中是最高的。我們意識到，由於我們的槓桿率較高，我們的股票交易價格可能低於集團價格，但我們的槓桿率一直在縮小，而我們的股本卻在快速成長。

On slide 34, we show that despite our extremely high ROE, there are a number of peers that have a higher price-to-book ratio than us. This slide more visually demonstrates how much we are undervalued relative to other builders when looking at the relationship between ROE and price-to-book. A very similar result exists when looking at ROE to price-to-earnings.

在投影片 34 中，我們表明，儘管我們的 ROE 極高，但仍有許多同行的市淨率高於我們。這張投影片更直觀地展示了當查看 ROE 和市淨率之間的關係時，我們相對於其他建築商被低估了多少。當我們將 ROE 與本益比進行比較時，也會得到非常相似的結果。

On slide 35, you can see an even more glaring disconnect with our high EBIT ROI and our P/E. We have the fifth highest EBIT ROI, and yet our stock trades at the lowest multiple earnings of the entire group.

在第 35 張投影片上，您可以看到我們的高稅前利潤投資報酬率 (EBIT ROI) 與本益比之間的明顯脫節。我們的息稅前利潤投資報酬率 (EBIT ROI) 排名第五，但我們的股票本益比卻是整個集團中最低的。

These last six slides further emphasize our point that given our high return on equity and return on investment, combined with our rapidly improving balance sheet, we believe our stock continues to be the most undervalued in the entire universe of public homebuilders.

最後六張投影片進一步強調了我們的觀點：鑑於我們較高的股本回報率和投資回報率，再加上我們快速改善的資產負債表，我們相信我們的股票仍然是整個上市房屋建築商中最被低估的。

I'll now turn it back to Ara for some brief closing comments.

現在我將把話題轉回給 Ara，請他發表一些簡短的結論。

Thanks, Brad. I want to emphasize that in this more challenging environment, we continue to work with some of our land sellers currently under option in order to find a compromise where we both share a bit of the pain in a slow market. We've made a strategic decision to burn through certain less-profitable land parcels at lower gross margins that clear the way for newer land acquisitions which meet our historical return metrics, even after the big incentives. Fortunately, we're still finding new land opportunities that meet our return hurdles, again, even after the high level of incentives and at the slower sales pace.

謝謝，布拉德。我想強調的是，在這個更具挑戰性的環境中，我們將繼續與一些目前處於選擇中的土地賣家合作，以找到一種妥協方案，讓我們雙方在低迷的市場中分擔一些痛苦。我們做出了一項策略決策，以較低的毛利率消耗掉某些利潤較低的土地，為新的土地收購鋪平道路，即使在採取巨額激勵措施後，這些新的土地收購也能滿足我們的歷史回報指標。幸運的是，即使在高額激勵措施和較慢的銷售速度之後，我們仍然在尋找新的土地機會，以滿足我們的回報障礙。

To wrap up, we met or exceeded our expectations for the third quarter. Regardless of market conditions, we closely monitor our communities and adjust our local strategies on a weekly basis. Given the tough operating environment, we are focusing on this even more today. Our goal is to be able to deliver strong ROE and ROI results even in difficult markets.

總而言之，我們達到或超越了對第三季的預期。無論市場狀況如何，我們都會密切關注我們的社區並每週調整我們的本地策略。鑑於嚴峻的經營環境，我們今天更加關注這一點。我們的目標是即使在困難的市場中也能實現強勁的 ROE 和 ROI 結果。

That concludes our formal comments, and we'll be happy to turn it over for a Q&A now.

我們的正式評論到此結束，現在我們很高興將其交給問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Alan Ratner, Zelman & Associates.

（操作員指示）Alan Ratner，Zelman & Associates。

Hey guys, good morning. Thanks, as always, for the great information so far. First, I'd love to just drill in a little bit on the improvement you guys saw in order activity in July. I'm curious if you feel like that was more macro- and market-driven based on maybe some of the tariff noise subsiding and rates coming down. Or were there any company-specific actions you guys took to drive that improvement, i.e. higher incentives or community openings or anything like that?

大家好，早安。一如既往，感謝您迄今為止提供的精彩資訊。首先，我想稍微深入探討一下大家在七月看到的訂單活動的改善情況。我很好奇，您是否覺得這更多的是宏觀和市場驅動的，或許是因為關稅噪音正在消退，利率正在下降。或者你們是否採取了任何公司特定的行動來推動這種改進，例如更高的激勵措施或社區開放或諸如此類的事情？

I'd say in general, Alan, as you saw with our incentives, we did increase incentives a bit this quarter versus last quarter. But overall, I'd say the market is more macroeconomic and political uncertainty, and news-driven. I mean, it's just amazing. If there's a good headline, sales are good that week. If there's a bad world headline, the sale, it can go back and forth and back and forth. But other than a slightly more buydown rate, we really didn't do anything very different. It was more macro.

艾倫，我想說，總的來說，正如你在我們的激勵措施中看到的，與上一季相比，我們本季的激勵措施確實有所增加。但總體而言，我認為市場更多地受到宏觀經濟和政治不確定性以及新聞驅動。我的意思是，這真是太神奇了。如果標題好，那當週的銷售就會很好。如果出現全球性的負面新聞，銷售情況就會反覆波動。但除了稍微提高買斷率之外，我們實際上並沒有做任何不同的事情。它更加宏觀。

Got it. And then just in terms of August activity, month-to-date, would you say that that July improvement has continued thus far or is it just remaining choppy here so far?

知道了。那麼就 8 月的活動而言，從月度至今，您是否認為 7 月的改善趨勢到目前為止還在持續，還是仍然不穩定？

I would say it's just remaining choppy. I think we see week changes, just like we kind of showed in the monthly data we were showing there, just bounces back and forth.

我想說的是，它只是保持不穩定的狀態。我認為我們看到了周變化，就像我們在月度數據中顯示的那樣，只是來回反彈。

Got it. Okay. Appreciate that. Second question, on the gross margin guide down sequentially, obviously it makes sense, given the strategy you guys are working through some of the maybe underperforming assets. But I'm just curious if you can kind of give some framework on how -- you have a very helpful slide in there with the vintage of your lots and you can kind of see, I guess, the land that was underwritten during a better time. When you think about the headwind that might continue from working through these assets, is this like a couple of quarter-type phenomena? Is this something that's likely going to persist through '26? Just can you help frame the size of the bucket of assets that you're kind of focusing on burning through at this point?

知道了。好的。非常感謝。第二個問題，關於毛利率指南的連續下降，顯然這是有道理的，因為你們正在製定策略來處理一些可能表現不佳的資產。但我只是好奇，您是否可以提供一些框架，說明如何——您有一個非常有用的幻燈片，其中顯示了您的地塊的年份，您可以看到，我想，在更好的時期承保的土地。當您考慮這些資產可能繼續帶來的不利因素時，這是否像幾季的現象？這種現像有可能持續到 26 年嗎？您能否協助估算一下您目前重點消耗的資產規模？

It's hard to comment on that, and I can't say we specifically project it. The prices and the margins are not just lot vintage-driven, but are also geography-driven. I mentioned earlier the markets that are mostly East Coast that are doing far better than some of our West Coast markets, plus Texas has been a little slower and Florida has been a little slower. So some of it depends on really burning through the tougher communities in the tougher geographies.

對此很難評論，我也不能說我們具體地預測了這一點。價格和利潤不僅受年份影響，也受地理位置影響。我之前提到過，主要位於東海岸的市場表現比我們的一些西海岸市場好得多，而且德克薩斯州和佛羅裡達州的發展速度稍慢一些。因此，這在某種程度上取決於能否真正戰勝更為艱難的地理位置上更為艱難的社區。

Having said that too, we are having some success working with the sellers of lots to us to share some of the pain, which helps margins and allows us to feel more comfortable burning through some of the lower margins rather than walking from lots. We prefer not to walk from lots where we really can avoid it.

話雖如此，我們還是成功地與賣家合作，分擔了一些痛苦，這有助於提高利潤率，讓我們更放心地消耗一些較低的利潤，而不是放棄一些批次。我們不願意從真正可以避免的地方步行。

So the long-winded answer, Alan, is I'm not sure we really haven't focused on how long it's going to be. I will say that we've reduced the number of lots that we bought in '23 and '24 by almost 2000 homes. And we've increased our recent purchases, our recent lots that we bought this year in '25 by about 1,000 homes. So the recent purchases have excellent margins, even with the rate buydowns, as we've said several times. So when that gets into better balance, I can't quite say, but I'm feeling pretty good about our new land acquisitions and eager to clear the road and our balance sheet to pursue more and more of the new land acquisitions.

所以艾倫，冗長的回答是，我不確定我們是否真的關注過它會持續多久。我想說的是，我們在 1923 年和 1924 年購買的土地數量減少了近 2000 套房屋。我們最近的購買量，即我們 25 年購買的土地，增加了約 1,000 套房屋。因此，正如我們多次提到的那樣，即使利率下降，最近的購買仍然具有極好的利潤率。因此，當情況變得更加平衡時，我還不能完全確定，但我對我們的新土地收購感到非常滿意，並渴望清理道路和資產負債表，以追求越來越多的新土地收購。

That great. I appreciate that. And Brad, can I just squeak in one last housekeeping question? The consolidation on the JV, next quarter, did you give a dollar amount? What's going to flow through the other income line?

那太好了。我很感激。布萊德，我可以再問最後一個問題嗎？下個季度的合資企業合併，您給了金額嗎？什麼將會流經另一條收入線？

We didn't give a dollar amount, but on those three previous transactions I mentioned, we averaged about $30 million, and this will probably be in that same neighborhood.

我們沒有給出具體的金額，但在我提到的之前的三筆交易中，平均金額約為 3000 萬美元，而這筆交易的金額可能也差不多在這個範圍內。

And that's embedded within the pre-tax, correct?

這包含在稅前收入中，對嗎？

Correct.

正確的。

Okay, perfect. Thanks a lot, guys. Appreciate it.

好的，完美。非常感謝大家。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) Jay McCanless, Wedbush.

（操作員指示）Jay McCanless，韋德布希。

Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I guess, first, can we talk about the balance sheet and what type of debt restructuring opportunities might be out there at this point?

嘿，大家早安。感謝您回答我的問題。我想，首先，我們可以談談資產負債表以及目前可能存在哪些類型的債務重整機會嗎？

Sure, I mean, we -- as we said in the past, I'm always looking at ways to continue to improve our balance sheet, and one of those that we talked about previously with the market is the idea of refinancing our secured debt into unsecured, and it's something we're certainly continuing to take a look at and will take advantage of if the opportunity arises, something I paid a lot of attention to on a regular basis.

當然，我的意思是，正如我們過去所說的那樣，我一直在尋找繼續改善資產負債表的方法，我們之前與市場討論過的方法之一就是將我們的擔保債務再融資為無擔保債務，我們肯定會繼續關注這一點，如果機會出現，我們會利用它，這是我經常關注的事情。

Yeah, overall, I'd say the market for high yield, even in the homebuilding industry, is getting a little better and a little stronger, so we think there will be opportunities in the very near future.

是的，總的來說，我認為高收益市場，即使是在住宅建築行業，也會變得更好、更強勁，所以我們認為在不久的將來就會有機會。

Okay, great, thank you. And then the second question, kind of following on what Alan was asking, are there opportunities maybe to do bulk sales in terms of moving through some of these lots, going ahead and taking an even larger gross margin hit to get that off your books so that these newer communities and the better gross margins can shine through a little easier?

好的，太好了，謝謝。然後第二個問題，有點像艾倫問的問題，是否有機會進行批量銷售，比如轉移一些地段，繼續進行，並承受更大的毛利率損失，以便將這些損失從賬面上剔除，以便這些較新的社區和更好的毛利率能夠更容易地顯現出來？

We look at that regularly, and we're constantly looking at the potential loss in a sale or a walkaway versus building out. And we haven't done a lot of land sales in bulk. We have done a couple of walkaways. But generally speaking, as I mentioned earlier, we're finding some better opportunities with sharing the pain with our land-light partners. So I think that's probably more of the strategy.

我們會定期檢查這一點，並不斷關注出售或放棄與擴建相比的潛在損失。我們還沒有進行過大量的土地銷售。我們已經進行了幾次離開。但總的來說，正如我之前提到的，我們發現與陸地輕型夥伴分擔痛苦會帶來更好的機會。所以我認為這可能更多的是一種策略。

I will also say, I can't -- we mentioned -- Brad mentioned, 3 times in the last nine quarters, we've had a gain from consolidation. We've also had probably three or four quarters with gains from land sales, so we tend to do more of the latter, the gain from land sales than the loss from land sales. And it makes sense if you consider that 85% of our loss are optioned. We don't have a lot of bulk land on our balance sheets today to sell in bulk at a loss. But we do have, from time to time, entitled land that's more than that -- where the entitlements come through a little earlier than we planned and more than we need for a given market, and we've been having good success selling those at a profit.

我還要說，我不能——我們提到過——布拉德提到，在過去的九個季度中，我們三次從合併中獲得了收益。我們大概也有三到四個季度從土地銷售中獲得了收益，因此我們傾向於更多地做後者，即從土地銷售中獲得的收益而不是從土地銷售中獲得的損失。如果你考慮到我們的 85% 的損失都是有選擇的，那麼這是有道理的。目前，我們的資產負債表上沒有大量的土地可供我們虧本批量出售。但有時，我們確實擁有比這更多的土地——這些土地的產權比我們計劃的要早一點，而且比特定市場的需求還要多，而且我們在出售這些土地時一直很成功，並且盈利頗豐。

Just to add to your comment, one of the land sales we had earlier this year was basically what you described. It was an underperforming community that we did flip to somebody else, so it's something we do look at, as they were described.

補充一下您的評論，我們今年早些時候進行的其中一筆土地出售基本上就是您所描述的。這是一個表現不佳的社區，我們確實將其轉交給了其他人，因此正如他們所描述的那樣，我們確實在關注它。

Got it. Okay, great. And then the 21% of communities where you raised price this quarter, I know that we're mostly focused in the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and I think that's the second quarter in a row where we all see good performance there, but diving down a little further, is that entry level, active adult? Any color you can give us on what buyer groups are resilient enough where you can raise price at this point?

知道了。好的，太好了。然後，本季 21% 的社區提高了價格，我知道我們主要集中在東北部、大西洋中部地區，我認為這是我們連續第二個季度看到這些地區表現良好，但進一步深入研究，那是入門級、活躍的成年人嗎？您能否告訴我們哪些買家群體具有足夠的韌性，以至於您可以在此時提高價格？

I'd say generically, the entry level is the tougher market. We've had some good success in active adult, as a couple of our peers have had, and we've had some good success on first-time and second-time move up. It's been a more challenging environment in the tertiary super low entry price points.

我想說，一般來說，入門市場是比較艱難的。正如我們的一些同行一樣，我們在活躍成年人方面取得了一些成功，我們在第一次和第二次晉升方面也取得了一些成功。在第三產業的超低入門價格點，環境變得更具挑戰性。

Okay, that's great. Thanks for taking my questions.

好的，太好了。感謝您回答我的問題。

Thank you. There are no further questions. I like to turn the call back over to Ara for any further comments.

謝謝。沒有其他問題了。我想將電話轉回給 Ara，以便他發表進一步的評論。

Thank you very much. Again, we're pleased to have met our expectations and guidance, even though we're not as good as we performed last year. But we are excited about the opportunities in the land market and replenishing our land supply, and we'll look forward to delivering some good results. I think we've shown that we have a great franchise that can really deliver some industry-leading ROEs and ROIs, and I think as we continue to replace our land position with newer and newer land parcels, I think our performance is going to get just that much better. Thank you very much.

非常感謝。再次，我們很高興能夠達到我們的期望和指導，儘管我們的表現不如去年那麼好。但我們對土地市場的機會和補充土地供應感到興奮，我們期待取得一些良好的成果。我認為我們已經證明我們擁有出色的特許經營權，可以真正實現一些行業領先的 ROE 和 ROI，而且我認為隨著我們繼續用越來越新的地塊取代我們的土地位置，我認為我們的表現會變得更好。非常感謝。

Thank you. This concludes our conference call for today. Thank you for all for participating and have a nice day. All parties may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的參與並祝福大家有個愉快的一天。各方現在都可以斷開連線。