Hovnanian Enterprises Inc (HOV) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and thank you for joining us today for Hovnanian Enterprises fiscal 2024 fourth quarter earnings conference call. An archive of the webcast will be available after the completion of the call and run for 12 months. This conference is being recorded for rebroadcast and all participants are currently in a listen-only mode.

早安，感謝您今天參加我們的 Hovnanian Enterprises 2024 財年第四季財報電話會議。網路廣播的存檔將在電話會議結束後提供，並持續 12 個月。該會議正在錄製以供重播，所有參與者目前都處於僅聽模式。

Management will make some opening remarks about the fourth quarter results and open line for questions. The company will also be webcasting a slide presentation along with the opening comments from management. The slides are available on Investors page of the company's website at www.khov.com. Those listeners who would like to follow along should now log on to the website.

管理層將就第四季度業績發表一些開場白，並開放提問。該公司還將透過網路廣播幻燈片演示以及管理層的開場評論。這些幻燈片可在公司網站 www.khov.com 的投資者頁面上查看。那些想要跟隨的聽眾現在應該登入該網站。

I'd like to turn the call over to Jeff O'Keefe, Vice President, Investor Relations. Jeff, please go ahead.

我想將電話轉給投資者關係副總裁 Jeff O'Keefe。傑夫，請繼續。

Thank you, Marvin, and thank you all for participating in this morning's call to review the results for our fourth quarter and year-end. All statements on this conference call that are not historical facts should be considered as forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

謝謝馬文，也謝謝大家參加今天早上的電話會議，審查我們第四季和年底的結果。本次電話會議上所有非歷史事實的陳述均應被視為 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港條款含義內的前瞻性陳述。

Such statements involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties and other factors that may cause actual results, performance, or achievements of the company to be materially different from any future results, performance, or achievements expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements.

此類陳述涉及已知和未知的風險和不確定性以及其他因素，可能導致本公司的實際結果、績效或成就與前瞻性陳述明示或暗示的任何未來結果、績效或成就有重大差異。

Such forward-looking statements include, but are not limited to, statements related to the company's goals and expectations with respect to its financial results for future financial periods.

此類前瞻性陳述包括但不限於與本公司未來財務期間財務表現的目標和預期相關的陳述。

Although we believe that our plans, intentions, and expectations reflected and are suggested by such forward-looking statements are reasonable, we can give no assurance that such plans, intentions or expectations will be achieved.

儘管我們相信此類前瞻性陳述所反映和暗示的我們的計劃、意圖和期望是合理的，但我們不能保證此類計劃、意圖或期望將會實現。

By their nature, forward-looking statements speak only as of the date they are made, are not guarantees of future performance results, and are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions that are difficult to predict or quantify. Therefore, actual results could differ materially and adversely from those forward-looking statements as a result of a variety of factors.

就其性質而言，前瞻性陳述僅代表其作出之日的情況，不能保證未來的業績結果，並且受到難以預測或量化的風險、不確定性和假設的影響。因此，由於多種因素的影響，實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述有重大且不利的差異。

Such risks, uncertainties, and other factors are described in detail in the sections entitled Risk Factors and Management's Discussion Analysis, particularly the portion of MD&A entitled Safe Harbor statement in our Annual Report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended October 31, 2023, and subsequent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

此類風險、不確定性和其他因素在標題為「風險因素和管理層討論分析」的章節中進行了詳細描述，特別是我們截至2023 年10 月31 日的財務年度10-K 表格年度報告中標題為MD&A 的「安全港聲明」的部分，以及隨後向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

Except as otherwise required by applicable security laws, we undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, changed circumstances, or any other reason.

除非適用的安全法另有要求，我們不承擔公開更新或修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件、情況變化或任何其他原因。

Joining me today are Ara Hovnanian, Chairman, President, and CEO; Brad O'Connor, CFO and Treasurer; and David Mitrisin, Vice President, Corporate Controller.

今天與我一起出席的有董事長、總裁兼執行長 Ara Hovnanian； Brad O'Connor，財務長兼財務長；副總裁兼公司財務總監 David Mitrisin。

I'll now turn the call over to Ara.

我現在將電話轉給 Ara。

Thanks, Jeff. I'm going to review our fourth quarter and year-end results and I'll also comment on the current housing environment. Brad will follow me with more details and of course, we'll open it up for Q&A afterwards.

謝謝，傑夫。我將回顧我們的第四季度和年終業績，並對當前的住房環境發表評論。布拉德將跟隨我提供更多詳細信息，當然，之後我們將開放它進行問答。

Let me begin on slide 5. Here we show full-year guidance compared to our actual results. Starting on the top of the slide, revenues were $3 billion which was slightly better than the midpoint of our guidance.

讓我從投影片 5 開始。在這裡，我們展示了與實際結果相比的全年指導。從投影片頂部開始，收入為 30 億美元，略好於我們指導的中位數。

Our adjusted gross margin was 22% for the year, which was exactly at the midpoint of the guidance we gave. Our SG&A ratio was 11.4%, which was very near the midpoint of the guidance that we gave.

我們今年調整後的毛利率為 22%，正好處於我們給予的指導的中點。我們的 SG&A 比率為 11.4%，非常接近我們給出的指導的中點。

Our income from unconsolidated joint ventures was $52 million, which was slightly below the guidance we gave due to delayed deliveries in three communities related to utility connections.

我們來自未合併合資企業的收入為 5200 萬美元，略低於我們給出的指導，因為三個社區與公用事業連接相關的交付延遲。

Adjusted EBITDA was $456 million for the year, which is above the high end of the range that we gave. And finally, our adjusted pretax income was $327 million, which was also above the high end of the guidance range that we gave. We're obviously pleased that our profitability for the full year was above the high end of the guidance range.

今年調整後的 EBITDA 為 4.56 億美元，高於我們給出的範圍的上限。最後，我們調整後的稅前收入為 3.27 億美元，這也高於我們給出的指導範圍的上限。我們顯然很高興我們全年的盈利能力高於指導範圍的高端。

On slide 6, we show how our full-year results compared to last year. Starting in the upper left hand portion of the slide, you can see that our total revenues increased 9% to just over $3 billion. Moving across the top to gross margin, our gross margin was 22% in fiscal year '24, which was slightly below the prior year's gross margin.

在幻燈片 6 中，我們展示了我們的全年業績與去年相比的情況。從幻燈片的左上角開始，您可以看到我們的總收入增加了 9%，達到略高於 30 億美元。再來看毛利率，我們 24 財年的毛利率為 22%，略低於前一年的毛利率。

Moving to the bottom left, you can see that adjusted EBITDA increased 7% for the year to $456 million. And in the bottom right hand portion of the slide, we're excited about the adjusted pretax income improvement over the prior year, up 16% to $327 million.

移至左下角，您可以看到今年調整後的 EBITDA 成長了 7%，達到 4.56 億美元。在投影片的右下部分，我們對調整後的稅前收入比上年有所改善感到興奮，成長了 16％，達到 3.27 億美元。

If you go to slide 7, here we show our results compared to last year's fourth quarter. Keep in mind that last year's fourth quarter was one of the strongest fourth quarters that we've had in a very long time, particularly for gross margin and pretax income. It makes the year-over-year comparisons for the quarter much more difficult.

如果您查看投影片 7，我們將在此處顯示與去年第四季相比的結果。請記住，去年第四季是我們很長一段時間以來最強勁的第四季之一，尤其是毛利率和稅前收入。這使得本季的同比比較變得更加困難。

Starting in the upper left hand quadrant of the slide, you can see our total revenues increased 10% to just under $1 billion. In the upper right hand portion of the slide, you can see that our gross margin was a healthy 21.7%, but down compared to a particularly strong margin in the previous year. On a sequential basis, we decreased slightly from 22.1% in the third quarter of '24.

從投影片的左上象限開始，您可以看到我們的總收入增加了 10%，達到近 10 億美元。在幻燈片的右上角，您可以看到我們的毛利率為 21.7%，但與去年特別強勁的毛利率相比有所下降。與 2024 年第三季的 22.1% 相比，我們環比略有下降。

Gross margins declined year-over-year as per our guidance, despite a 1% decrease in construction costs over the same period. The lower gross margin is primarily due to the continued use of mortgage rate buydowns, which have been stubbornly high due to the elevated levels of mortgage rates as well as some other incentives.

儘管同期建築成本下降了 1%，但根據我們的指導，毛利率比去年同期下降。毛利率較低主要是由於繼續使用抵押貸款利率回購，由於抵​​押貸款利率水準升高以及其他一些激勵措施，抵押貸款利率回購一直居高不下。

It's also related to a greater conscious focus on pace versus price, which we will discuss more fully in a moment. Going forward, we expect to continue to use mortgage rate buydowns to help with buyer affordability.

它也與更有意識地關注速度與價格有關，我們稍後將更全面地討論這一點。展望未來，我們預計將繼續利用抵押貸款利率下調來幫助提高買家的承受能力。

During this year's fourth quarter, incentives were 8.5% of the average sales price. This is up 120 basis points from a year ago and up 500 basis points higher than fiscal '22, which was prior to the mortgage rate spike impacting deliveries. Because of the continued use of incentives and increased land-light position, we expect gross margins to decrease further in the first quarter as we provided in our guidance.

今年第四季度，獎勵金額為平均銷售價格的 8.5%。這比一年前上升了 120 個基點，比 22 財年（抵押貸款利率飆升影響交付之前）高出 500 個基點。由於激勵措施的持續使用和輕土地部位的增加，我們預計第一季的毛利率將進一步下降，正如我們在指引中所提供的。

We continue to emphasize pace over price and we expect to report strong EBIT ROI again going forward. As a side note, we utilize a comparable level of incentives in new land acquisitions and they must meet our IRR minimum hurdle rate of 20% even after the cost of these incentives.

我們繼續強調速度而非價格，並預計未來將再次報告強勁的息稅前利潤投資回報率。順便說一句，我們在新土地收購中採用了同等水平的激勵措施，即使在扣除這些激勵措施的成本後，他們也必須滿足我們 20% 的 IRR 最低門檻率。

Moving to the bottom left-hand portion of the slide, as a result of the lower gross margin percentage, you can see that our adjusted EBITDA decreased a bit to $159 million in this year's fourth quarter. Finally, in the bottom right hand portion of the slide, correspondingly adjusted pretax profits also decreased a bit to $126 million.

轉到投影片的左下部分，由於毛利率較低，您可以看到今年第四季調整後的 EBITDA 略有下降，降至 1.59 億美元。最後，在幻燈片的右下部分，相應調整後的稅前利潤也略有下降，至 1.26 億美元。

While the fourth quarter met our expectations and guidance, it would have been better if not for the hurricanes right toward the end of our fiscal year. We ended up missing deliveries, primarily due to a lack of meters installed in homes and a scarcity of subcontractor crews due to the shift toward rebuilding.

雖然第四季達到了我們的預期和指導，但如果不是我們財年即將結束時發生的颶風，情況會更好。我們最終錯過了交貨，主要是由於房屋中安裝的儀表不足，以及由於轉向重建而缺乏分包商人員。

Our current communities were spared major damage, but there was a tornado that touched down recently in one of our completed communities in Florida's East Coast causing some damage to about a dozen homes. I know that new orders and current levels of demand are very much in focus by investors and analysts, so I'm now going to discuss contracts from several different perspectives.

我們目前的社區沒有受到重大損害，但最近發生了一場龍捲風襲擊了我們位於佛羅裡達州東海岸的一個已竣工的社區，對大約十幾棟房屋造成了一些損壞。我知道新訂單和當前的需求水準是投資者和分析師非常關注的焦點，所以我現在將從幾個不同的角度討論合約。

If you turn to slide 8, while the year was choppy from quarter-to-quarter, we ended the year with fourth quarter contracts increasing 48% year-over-year. I'm going to repeat that statistic because it's pretty significant.

如果你翻到投影片 8，雖然這一年各個季度都波動很大，但我們第四季的合約年增了 48%。我將重複該統計數據，因為它非常重要。

Our fourth quarter contracts increased 48% year-over-year. The contract pace continued in the month of November following the fourth quarter with our contracts up 55% year-over-year as demand for our homes remained robust. Regardless of one's politics, there does seem to have been a little post-election enthusiasm regarding the outlook, the economic outlook at least for our homebuyers.

我們第四季的合約年增 48%。第四季之後的 11 月合約持續成長，由於房屋需求依然強勁，我們的合約年增 55%。無論一個人的政治立場如何，選舉後似乎確實對前景有一點熱情，至少對我們的購屋者來說是經濟前景。

If you turn to slide 9, you can see contracts per community for the fourth quarter increased to 10.4, a 25% year-over-year increase and more than double the sales pace of Q4 '22. This was a solid fourth quarter sales pace, setting this up for a great fiscal '25.

如果你翻到投影片 9，你可以看到第四季度每個社區的合約增加到 10.4，比去年同期成長 25%，是 22 年第四季銷售速度的兩倍多。第四季的銷售步伐穩健，為 25 財年的輝煌奠定了基礎。

We're pleased with these results, especially given all the uncertainty with the presidential election, the impact of hurricanes, the volatility in mortgage rates, and the general economic and geopolitical uncertainty.

我們對這些結果感到滿意，特別是考慮到總統選舉的所有不確定性、颶風的影響、抵押貸款利率的波動以及總體經濟和地緣政治的不確定性。

If you turn to slide 10, we show mortgage rate trends. The gray line on this slide shows what happened to mortgage rates last year between July of '22 and November of '23. The blue line shows what happened with mortgage rates this past year between July of '23 and November of '24.

如果您翻到投影片 10，我們會顯示抵押貸款利率趨勢。這張投影片上的灰線顯示了去年 22 年 7 月到 23 年 11 月期間抵押貸款利率的變化。藍線顯示了去年 23 年 7 月至 24 年 11 月期間抵押貸款利率的變化。

For most of the time shown, they coincidentally followed a very similar pattern of monthly increases and decreases just at slightly higher rates this year. However, beginning in July of this year, mortgage rates fell below the levels of the prior year for the same months and continued to decline until September -- the end of September.

在所示的大部分時間裡，它們巧合地遵循了非常相似的每月成長和下降模式，只是今年的成長率略高。然而，從今年7月開始，房貸利率跌破了去年同月的水平，並持續下降到9月——9月底。

Mortgage rates have increased since the beginning of October, but they still remain lower now than they were last year. In addition, web traffic continues to be very strong. For the last month of the quarter, as well as the month of November, weekly visits to our website were only surpassed by the COVID surge of '22 and '21. This trend makes me particularly optimistic about future demand.

自十月初以來，抵押貸款利率有所上升，但目前仍低於去年水準。此外，網路流量仍然非常強勁。在本季的最後一個月以及 11 月份，我們網站的每週訪問量僅被 22 年和 21 年的新冠疫情激增所超越。這個趨勢讓我對未來的需求特別樂觀。

On slide 11, we give even more granularity and show the trend of monthly contracts per community compared to the same month a year ago. Other than the month of September when our sales pace was flat compared to the previous year, our contracts per community were up significantly compared to the same month the previous year.

在幻燈片 11 中，我們提供了更多的粒度，並顯示了每個社區的每月合約與一年前同月相比的趨勢。除了 9 月份我們的銷售速度與去年同期持平外，我們每個社區的合約與去年同月相比顯著增加。

As you can also see on the slide, EFRs were not very particular -- were not very impactful in any of the months shown. We continue to believe that many of the fundamentals that led to our outperformance remain intact, such as the low supply of existing homes for sale and the good jobs report. Furthermore, the overall health of the economy and positive demographic trends remain solid.

正如您在幻燈片上看到的那樣，EFR 並不是很特別——在所示的任何月份中都沒有太大影響。我們仍然相信，導致我們表現優異的許多基本面仍然完好無損，例如待售房屋供應量低和良好的就業報告。此外，經濟的整體健康狀況和積極的人口趨勢仍然穩固。

Turning to slide 12, we show contracts per community as if we had a September 30th quarter-end. That way we can compare our results to our peers that report contracts per community on a calendar quarter-end.

轉向幻燈片 12，我們顯示了每個社區的合同，就好像我們有 9 月 30 日的季度末一樣。這樣，我們就可以將我們的結果與在日曆季度末報告每個社區合約的同行進行比較。

At 10.7 contracts per community, our September quarterly sales pace is the third highest among public homebuilders that reported at this time. This occurred despite September being one of the slower months in the quarter as I showed you on the previous slide.

我們的 9 月份季度銷售速度為每個社區 10.7 份合同，在目前公佈的公共住宅建築商中排名第三。正如我在上一張幻燈片中向您展示的那樣，儘管 9 月是本季度表現較慢的月份之一，但還是發生了這種情況。

On slide 13, you can see that our year-over-year growth in contracts per community for the same period was the second highest among our peers. Again, this was as if our quarter ended in September so we could compare to many other companies.

在投影片 13 上，您可以看到我們同期每個社群的合約年增率在同業中排名第二。同樣，這就像我們的季度在九月結束一樣，因此我們可以與許多其他公司進行比較。

The following two months were dramatically stronger in sales for us. What we're trying to illustrate on these last two slides is that we are still selling an above number of homes compared to our peers. Above average number of homes, excuse me.

接下來的兩個月我們的銷售額急遽成長。我們在最後兩張幻燈片中試圖說明的是，與同行相比，我們銷售的房屋數量仍然高於同行。高於平均的房屋數量，請原諒。

On the top of slide 14, you can see that for a sizable percentage of our deliveries, our homebuyers continue to utilize mortgage rate buydowns. The percentage of customers that use buydowns in this year's fourth quarter was 72%.

在幻燈片 14 的頂部，您可以看到，在我們交付的很大一部分中，我們的購房者繼續利用抵押貸款利率購買。今年第四季使用buydowns的客戶比例為72%。

The buydown usage in our deliveries indicates that buyers have been consistently relying on these mortgage rate buydowns to combat affordability at the current mortgage rate levels. Given the persistently high mortgage rate environment, we assume buydowns will remain at similar levels going forward.

我們交付中的買斷使用情況表明，買家一直依賴這些抵押貸款利率買斷來對抗當前抵押貸款利率水準的負擔能力。鑑於抵押貸款利率持續居高不下的環境，我們假設未來購買量將維持在類似水準。

We are budgeting the cost of these same buydowns to remain constant. As I said earlier, this includes the analysis of any new land acquisitions. We continue to find land opportunities for growth even with these high levels of incentives.

我們正在對這些相同的購買成本進行預算，以保持不變。正如我之前所說，這包括對任何新土地收購的分析。即使有這些高水準的激勵措施，我們仍繼續尋找土地成長機會。

In order to meet homebuyers' desires to use mortgage rate buydowns, we're intentionally operating with an elevated level of quick move-in homes or QMIs as we call them, so that we can offer affordable mortgage rate buydowns in the near-term.

為了滿足購屋者使用抵押貸款利率買斷的願望，我們有意提高快速入住房屋或我們所說的 QMI 的水平，以便我們可以在短期內提供負擔得起的抵押貸款利率買斷。

On slide 15, we show that we had 7.9 QMIs per community at the end of the fourth quarter, which is consistent with where it was at the end of the third quarter. We define QMIs, by the way, as a home once we start the building.

在投影片 15 上，我們顯示第四季末每個社區的 QMI 為 7.9，這與第三季末的情況一致。順便說一句，一旦我們開始建造，我們就將 QMI 定義為一個家。

In the fourth quarter of '24, QMI sales were 72% of our total sales, an increase from 67% in the third quarter of '24. Historically, that percentage was about 40%. Obviously, demand for these QMIs remains high, so we're very comfortable with the current level of QMIs per community.

2024 年第四季度，QMI 銷售額占我們總銷售額的 72%，高於 24 年第三季的 67%。從歷史上看，這一比例約為 40%。顯然，對這些 QMI 的需求仍然很高，因此我們對每個社區目前的 QMI 水準非常滿意。

Due to the increase in community count in the quarter, it's not surprising that our finished QMIs increased to 233 finished homes. On a per community basis, that puts us at 1.8 finished QMIs per community. That's up slightly from 1.5 finished QMIs per community at the end of the third quarter, but it's lower than the 1.9 QMIs at our first quarter. Our goal with QMIs is obviously to sell them before completion.

由於本季社區數量的增加，我們的成品 QMI 增加到 233 套成品住宅也就不足為奇了。以每個社區為基礎，每個社區完成的 QMI 為 1.8。這比第三季末每個社區 1.5 個已完成的 QMI 略有上升，但低於第一季的 1.9 個 QMI。我們對 QMI 的目標顯然是在完成之前將其出售。

During the fourth quarter, we emphasized pace versus price. We're pleased that with the significant increase in sales pace and the effect on ROI, this did result in a lower gross margin for the fourth quarter and an even lower margin in our guidance for the first quarter of '25.

在第四季度，我們強調速度與價格。我們很高興地看到，隨著銷售速度的顯著增加以及對投資回報率的影響，這確實導致第四季度的毛利率下降，並且我們對25 年第一季的指導中的利潤率甚至更低。

But again, the tradeoff of pace versus price resulting in lower margins is producing great returns on inventory for us. The decrease in gross margin is primarily due to increased use of incentives, particularly in the West.

但同樣，速度與價格之間的權衡導致利潤率下降，但卻為我們帶來了巨大的庫存回報。毛利率下降主要是由於激勵措施的使用增加，特別是在西方。

The focus on quick move-in homes results in more contracts that are signed and delivered in the same quarter, which leads to higher backlog conversion. Our fourth quarter is an extreme example of this increase as 31% of our homes delivered in the fourth quarter were contracted in the same quarter.

對快速入住房屋的關注導致同一季度簽署和交付的合約增多，從而導致積壓訂單轉換率更高。第四季是這種成長的一個極端例子，在第四季度交付的房屋中有 31% 是在同一季度簽約的。

This resulted in a backlog conversion ratio of 86%. This is the highest backlog conversion ratio we've had for the past 14 years. We'll continue to manage our QMIs at a community level. We track our start schedule at a community level and we make sure that there is a match with our current sales pace per community so that we don't get too far ahead of ourselves.

這使得積壓訂單轉換率為 86%。這是我們過去 14 年來最高的積壓訂單轉換率。我們將繼續在社區層級管理我們的 QMI。我們在社區層面追蹤我們的開始時間表，並確保每個社區與我們當前的銷售速度相匹配，這樣我們就不會超前太多。

If you move to slide 16, you can see that even with the economic and political uncertainty, as well as the higher mortgage rates, we are still able to raise net prices in 34% of our communities during the fourth quarter. While we are focusing on pace versus price, we are still able to raise prices in about a third of our communities.

如果您翻到投影片 16，您會發現，即使存在經濟和政治不確定性以及抵押貸款利率上升，我們仍然能夠在第四季度提高 34% 社區的淨價。雖然我們關注的是速度與價格，但我們仍然能夠提高大約三分之一的社區的價格。

Turning to slide 17, I'll add that in addition to the use of our incentives and the increased level of QMIs, we also attribute part of our performance metrics to the introduction of our new national portfolio of home designs that we refer to as Looks.

轉向投影片 17，我要補充一點，除了使用我們的激勵措施和提高 QMI 水平之外，我們還將部分績效指標歸因於引入我們稱為「外觀」的新的全國家居設計組合。

The new designs feature curated interiors with simple and honest pricing that reduced the complexity of the selection process for the homebuyers and the building process for us. There are significant other advantages to our Looks program, but we'll discuss that at some point in the future. The current high levels of demand should support the growth that we're focused on achieving over the next several years.

新設計採用精心設計的內部和簡單誠實的定價，降低了購房者選擇過程和我們建造過程的複雜性。我們的 Looks 計劃還有其他顯著的優勢，但我們將在將來的某個時候對此進行討論。目前的高需求水準應該會支持我們未來幾年重點實現的成長。

I'll now turn it over to Brad O'Connor, our Chief Financial Officer.

現在我將把它交給我們的財務長布拉德·奧康納。

Thank you, Ara. On slide 18, you can see that we ended the quarter with a total of 147 open for sale communities, a 14% increase from last year. 130 of those communities were wholly owned.

謝謝你，阿拉。在投影片 18 中，您可以看到本季末共有 147 個開放出售社區，比去年增加了 14%。其中 130 個社區是全資擁有的。

During the fourth quarter, we opened 21 new wholly owned communities and sold out of 17 wholly owned communities. We had 17 unconsolidated joint venture communities at the end of the fourth quarter, we opened one new unconsolidated joint venture community and closed four unconsolidated joint venture communities during the quarter.

第四季度，我們新開設了 21 個全資社區，並出售了 17 個全資社區。截至第四季末，我們擁有 17 個未合併的合資社區，本季我們開設了一個新的未合併的合資社區，並關閉了 4 個未合併的合資社區。

Even with the growth in community count this quarter, we still experienced delays in opening new communities, primarily due to utility hookups throughout the country. We expect community count to continue to grow further in fiscal '25.

儘管本季度社區數量有所增長，但我們在開設新社區方面仍然遇到了延誤，這主要是由於全國各地的公用事業連接造成的。我們預計社區數量將在 25 財年繼續進一步成長。

The leading indicator for further community count growth is shown on slide 19. We ended the quarter with 41,891 controlled lots, which equates to a 7.8 year supply of controlled lots. Our lot count increased 6% sequentially and 32% year-over-year.

投影片 19 顯示了社群數量進一步增長的領先指標。截至本季末，我們擁有 41,891 塊受控地塊，相當於 7.8 年的受控地塊供應量。我們的批次數量較上季增加 6%，較去年同期增加 32%。

If you include lots from our unconsolidated joint ventures, we now control 44,720 lots. We added 5,500 lots and 56 future communities during the fourth quarter. Our land teams are actively engaging with land sellers negotiating for new land parcels that meet our underwriting standards.

如果算上我們未合併的合資企業的地塊，我們現在控制著 44,720 塊地塊。第四季我們新增了 5,500 個地塊和 56 個未來社區。我們的土地團隊正在積極與土地賣家就符合我們承保標準的新地塊進行談判。

In fiscal '24, we began talking about our pivot to growth. This followed a stretch of several years where we used a significant amount of the cash regenerated to pay down debt. On slide 20, we show our land and land development spend for each quarter going back five years. You can see how that pivot to growth has impacted our land and land development spend.

在 24 財年，我們開始談論我們的成長支點。在此之前的幾年裡，我們使用大量再生現金來償還債務。在投影片 20 上，我們展示了五年前每季的土地和土地開發支出。您可以看到這種轉向成長如何影響我們的土地和土地開發支出。

During the fourth quarter of '24, our land and land development spend increased 45% year-over-year to $318 million. You can clearly see that the land and land development spend in every quarter of fiscal '24 was the highest over the five years shown on this slide.

2024 年第四季度，我們的土地和土地開發支出年增 45%，達到 3.18 億美元。您可以清楚地看到，24 財年每季的土地和土地開發支出都是本投影片所示五年中最高的。

Our fourth quarter represented the highest quarterly spend since 2010 when we started reporting that metric. Our corporate land committee continues to be busy, which is an indication that our lot count should continue to increase over time, but not always in a straight line.

我們的第四季是自 2010 年我們開始報告該指標以來最高的季度支出。我們的公司土地委員會仍然很忙，這表明我們的地塊數量應該隨著時間的推移而繼續增加，但並不總是直線增加。

We are using current home prices, including the current level of mortgage rate buydowns and other incentives, current construction costs, and current sales base to underwrite to a 20% plus percent internal rate of return.

我們使用當前的房價，包括當前的抵押貸款利率購買水平和其他激勵措施、當前的建築成本和當前的銷售基礎來承保 20% 以上的內部回報率。

Our underwriting standards automatically self-adjust to any changes in market conditions. We are finding many opportunities in our markets and are very focused on growing our top and bottom lines for the long-term. And this growth in lots control precedes growth in community count, which precedes growth in deliveries. We are very pleased with the trends.

我們的承保標準會自動根據市場條件的任何變化進行自我調整。我們在市場中發現了許多機會，並且非常注重長期成長我們的收入和利潤。批次控制的成長先於社群數量的成長，而社群數量的成長又先於交付量的成長。我們對這些趨勢非常滿意。

On slide 21, we show the percentage of our lots controlled via option increased from 46% in the fourth quarter of fiscal '15 to 84% in the fourth quarter of fiscal '24. This is the highest percentage of option loss we've ever had continuing our strategic focus on land-light.

在投影片 21 中，我們顯示透過選擇權控制的批次百分比從 15 財年第四季的 46% 增加到 24 財年第四季的 84%。這是我們繼續將戰略重點放在陸地照明上的最高比例的期權損失。

Turning now to slide 22, you see that we continue to have one of the higher percentages of land controlled via option compared to our peers. Needless to say, with the second highest percentage of option lots, we are significantly above the median.

現在轉向投影片 22，您會發現，與同行相比，我們仍然是透過選擇權控制土地比例較高的國家之一。不用說，我們的選擇權手數比例位居第二，明顯高於中位數。

On slide 23, compared to our peers, we have the second highest inventory turnover rate. High inventory turns are a key component of our overall strategy. We believe we have opportunities to continue to increase our use of land options and further improve our turns on inventory in future periods. Our focus on pace versus price is evident here.

在投影片 23 上，與同業相比，我們的庫存週轉率排名第二。高庫存週轉率是我們整體策略的關鍵組成部分。我們相信，未來我們有機會繼續增加土地選擇的使用，並進一步提高庫存週轉率。我們對速度與價格的關注在這裡顯而易見。

Turning to slide 24, even after spending a record $318 million on land and land development, we ended the fourth quarter with $338 million of liquidity, which is above the high end of our targeted liquidity range.

轉向投影片 24，即使在土地和土地開發上花費了創紀錄的 3.18 億美元之後，我們第四季末的流動性仍達到 3.38 億美元，這超出了我們目標流動性範圍的上限。

Turning now to slide 25, this slide shows our maturity ladder as of October 31, 2024. Over the past several years, we have taken a number of steps to improve our maturity ladder and we remain committed to further strengthening our balance sheet going forward. In February of 2025, one year prior to maturity, we plan to pay off all of the remaining $27 million of the 13.5% notes, which is our highest coupon debt.

現在轉向投影片 25，這張投影片顯示了截至 2024 年 10 月 31 日我們的成熟度階梯。在過去的幾年裡，我們採取了一系列措施來改善我們的成熟度階梯，並且我們仍然致力於進一步加強我們的資產負債表。2025 年 2 月，即到期前一年，我們計劃償還 13.5% 票據中剩餘的 2,700 萬美元，這是我們最高的票面債務。

Turning to slide 26, we show the progress we've made to date to grow our equity and reduce our debt. Starting on the upper left hand part of the slide, we show the $1.3 billion growth in equity over the past few years. During the same period, on the upper right hand portion, you can see the $700 million reduction in debt.

轉向幻燈片 26，我們展示了迄今為止我們在增加股本和減少債務方面所取得的進展。從幻燈片的左上角開始，我們展示了過去幾年股本成長了 13 億美元。同一時期，在右上角，您可以看到債務減少了 7 億美元。

On the bottom of the slide, you can see that our net debt to net cap at the end of fiscal '24 was 49.3%, which is a significant improvement from our 146.2% at the beginning of fiscal '20. We still have more work to do to achieve our goal of a mid-30% level, but we are comfortable that we are on a path to achieve our target soon.

在投影片底部，您可以看到 24 財年末我們的淨債務與淨上限的比率為 49.3%，這比 20 財年年初的 146.2% 有了顯著改善。要實現 30% 中等程度的目標，我們還有更多工作要做，但我們很高興我們很快就能實現目標。

We've made considerable progress, which is evidenced by the credit rating upgrades we received from both S&P Global and Moody's during fiscal '24. Our balance sheet has improved significantly over the last five years and we expect to continue to make noteworthy progress moving forward.

我們已經取得了相當大的進展，24 財年我們從標準普爾全球公司和穆迪公司獲得的信用評級升級就證明了這一點。我們的資產負債表在過去五年中顯著改善，我們預計未來將繼續取得顯著進展。

Given our remaining $241 million of deferred tax assets, we will not have to pay federal income taxes on approximately $800 million of future pretax earnings. This benefit will continue to significantly enhance our cash flows in years to come and will accelerate our growth plans.

鑑於我們剩餘的 2.41 億美元遞延稅資產，我們將無需為未來約 8 億美元的稅前收益繳納聯邦所得稅。這項好處將在未來幾年繼續顯著增強我們的現金流，並將加速我們的成長計畫。

Regarding guidance, our internal plan, given our significant new community openings and current sales base is for substantial growth in deliveries and revenues in fiscal '25, which is off to a spectacular start.

關於指導，考慮到我們重要的新社區開放和當前的銷售基礎，我們的內部計劃是在 25 財年實現交付量和收入的大幅增長，這是一個輝煌的開端。

However, given the volatility and the difficulty in projecting margins with moving interest rates and volatility in general, we will focus our guidance on the current quarter, the first quarter of fiscal '25.

然而，考慮到波動性以及預測利率變化和波動性帶來的利潤的困難，我們將把指導重點放在當前季度，即 25 財年第一季。

Our financial guidance for the first quarter of '25 assumes no adverse changes in current market conditions, including no further deterioration in our supply chain or material increases in mortgage rates, inflation, or cancellation rates.

我們 25 年第一季的財務指引假設當前市場狀況不會發生不利變化，包括我們的供應鏈不會進一步惡化，抵押貸款利率、通貨膨脹或取消利率不會大幅上升。

Our guidance assumes continued extended construction cycle times averaging five months, compared to our pre-COVID cycle time for construction of approximately four months. It also assumes that we continue to be more reliant on QMI sales, which makes forecasting gross margins more difficult. Our guidance assumes continued use of mortgage rate buydowns and other incentives similar to recent months.

我們的指引假設施工週期時間持續延長，平均為五個月，而新冠疫情前的施工週期時間約為四個月。它還假設我們繼續更加依賴 QMI 銷售，這使得預測毛利率變得更加困難。我們的指導假設繼續使用抵押貸款利率購買和其他類似於近幾個月的激勵措施。

Further, it excludes any impact to SG&A expense from our phantom stock expense related solely to the stock price movement from the $176.04 stock price at the end of the fourth quarter of fiscal '24. I also want to emphasize that our first quarter has historically been our lowest-performing quarter in terms of gross margin, SG&A, and pretax in 2025 will not be different.

此外，它排除了我們的虛擬股票費用對 SG&A 費用的任何影響，該費用僅與 2024 財年第四季末 176.04 美元的股價變動相關。我還想強調的是，我們的第一季在毛利率、SG&A 和稅前方面歷來是表現最低的季度，2025 年也不會有所不同。

slide 27 shows our guidance for the first quarter of fiscal '25. Our expectations for total revenues for the first quarter to be between $650 million and $750 million. Adjusted gross margin is expected to be in the range of 17.5% to 18.5%. This is lower than a typical gross margin, particularly because of the cost of mortgage rate buydowns and our focus on pace versus price.

投影片 27 顯示了我們對 25 財年第一季的指導。我們預計第一季的總營收將在 6.5 億美元至 7.5 億美元之間。調整後毛利率預計在17.5%至18.5%之間。這低於典型的毛利率，特別是因為抵押貸款利率下調的成本以及我們對速度與價格的關注。

Keep in mind that all else being equal, first quarter gross margins are lower than the rest of the year to be as a result of lower volume, given there are some period costs and cost of sales. We expect the range of -- for SG&A as a percentage of total revenue to be between 13.5% and 14.5%, which is still higher than usual.

請記住，在其他條件相同的情況下，考慮到一些期間成本和銷售成本，第一季的毛利率低於今年剩餘時間，這是由於銷售量較低。我們預計 SG&A 佔總收入的百分比範圍在 13.5% 至 14.5% 之間，仍然高於平常。

One of the reasons our SG&A is running a little high is that we are gearing up for significant community count growth and we have to make new hires in advance of those communities. The upcoming growth is evident from our land position and land spend. In addition, as we have said before, our first quarter is typically our lowest volume quarter, and therefore SG&A as percent of revenues is often the highest in the first quarter.

我們的 SG&A 運作得有點高的原因之一是，我們正在為社群數量的大幅成長做準備，我們必須在這些社群之前招募新員工。從我們的土地地位和土地支出來看，即將到來的成長是顯而易見的。此外，正如我們之前所說，我們的第一季通常是銷售最低的季度，因此 SG&A 佔收入的百分比通常是第一季最高的。

We expect income from joint ventures to be between $15 million and $30 million. Our guidance for adjusted EBITDA is between $55 million and $65 million and our expectations for adjusted pretax income for the first quarter is between $25 million and $35 million.

我們預計合資企業的收入將在 1500 萬至 3000 萬美元之間。我們對調整後 EBITDA 的指引在 5,500 萬美元至 6,500 萬美元之間，對第一季調整後稅前收入的預期在 2,500 萬美元至 3,500 萬美元之間。

Turning to slide 28, we show that our return on equity was 34.6%, the second highest over the trailing 12 months compared to our peers. And on slide 29, we show that compared to our peers, we have one of the highest consolidated EBIT returns on investment at 30.7%.

轉向投影片 28，我們顯示我們的股本回報率為 34.6%，與同業相比，是過去 12 個月的第二高水準。在投影片 29 中，我們顯示，與同業相比，我們的綜合息稅前利潤投資報酬率最高，為 30.7%。

While our ROE was helped by our leverage, our EBIT return on investment is a true measure of pure homebuilding operating performance without regard to leverage and was the highest among our midsized peers. We believe we are striking a good balance between pace and price, which is delivering industry-leading ROIs and ROEs.

雖然我們的淨資產收益率得益於我們的槓桿率，但我們的息稅前利潤投資回報率是在不考慮槓桿率的情況下衡量純住宅建築經營業績的真正指標，並且是我們中型同行中最高的。我們相信，我們在速度和價格之間取得了良好的平衡，從而實現了行業領先的投資回報率和淨資產收益率。

Over the last several years we have consistently had one of the highest ROIs among our peers. Eventually, investors will recognize our consistent superior returns on capital and significantly improved balance sheet.

在過去的幾年裡，我們一直是同業中投資報酬率最高的公司之一。最終，投資者將認識到我們一貫的卓越資本回報率和顯著改善的資產負債表。

Given our rapidly growing book value, we think it would be appropriate to consider a variety of metrics including EBIT return on investment, enterprise value to EBITDA, and our price to earnings multiple when establishing a fair value for our stock. We believe when all of the fundamental financial metrics are considered, our stock is one of the most compelling values in the industry.

鑑於我們快速成長的帳面價值，我們認為在確定股票的公允價值時，應該考慮各種指標，包括息稅前利潤投資回報率、企業價值與息稅折舊攤銷前利潤之比以及市盈率。我們相信，當考慮所有基本財務指標時，我們的股票是業內最引人注目的價值之一。

On slide 30, we show our price to book multiple compared to our peers and we are just above the median. On slide 31, we show the trailing 12-month price to earnings ratio for us and our peer group based on our price-earnings multiple of 5.98 times at yesterday's stock price of $189.96.

在幻燈片 30 上，我們顯示了與同行相比的預訂價格，我們的價格略高於中位數。在幻燈片 31 上，我們顯示了我們和我們同行的過去 12 個月市盈率，基於昨天股價 189.96 美元的市盈率為 5.98 倍。

We are trading at a 45% discount to the homebuilding industry average PE ratio if you consider all public builders and a 36% discount when considering our midsize peers. We recognize that our stock may trade at a discount to the group because of our higher leverage, but our leverage has been shrinking and our equity has been growing rapidly.

如果考慮所有公共建築商，我們的交易價格比住宅建築行業平均本益比低 45%；如果考慮我們的中型同行，我們的交易價格比住宅建築業平均本益比低 36%。我們認識到，由於我們的槓桿率較高，我們的股票交易價格可能會低於集團，但我們的槓桿率一直在下降，而我們的股本卻在快速成長。

On slide 32, we show that despite our extremely high ROE, there are a number of peers that have a higher price-to-book ratio than us. This slide more visually demonstrates how much we are undervalued relative to the other builders when looking at the relationship between ROE and price to book. A very similar result exists when looking at ROE to price to earnings.

在投影片 32 中，我們顯示，儘管我們的股本回報率極高，但仍有許多同業的市淨率高於我們。這張投影片更直觀地展示了在考慮股本回報率和預訂價格之間的關係時，我們相對於其他建築商被低估了多少。當考慮股本回報率與本益比時，有非常相似的結果。

On slide 33, you can see an even more glaring disconnect with our high EBIT ROI and our PE. We have the third highest EBIT ROI and yet our stock trades at the lowest multiple to earnings of the group.

在投影片 33 上，您可以看到我們的高息稅前利潤投資報酬率和本益比之間有更明顯的脫節。我們的息稅前利潤投資報酬率排名第三，但我們的股票交易價格是集團獲利的最低倍數。

These last four slides further emphasize our point that given our high return on equity and return on investment, combined with our rapidly improving balance sheet, we believe our stock continues to be the most undervalued in the entire universe of public homebuilders.

最後四張投影片進一步強調了我們的觀點，即鑑於我們的高股本回報率和投資回報率，再加上我們迅速改善的資產負債表，我們相信我們的股票仍然是整個公共住宅建築商領域中被低估的股票。

I will now turn it back over to Ara for some brief closing remarks.

現在我將把它轉回 Ara 進行一些簡短的結束語。

Thanks, Brad. I just wanted to wrap up the call by saying that we're very excited about the growth we hope to achieve in fiscal '25. Our recent sales have been fantastic. In the fourth quarter again, contracts increased 48% and then we follow that up with a 55% growth in contracts in November.

謝謝，布拉德。在結束這次電話會議時，我只想說，我們對希望在 25 財年實現的成長感到非常興奮。我們最近的銷售情況非常好。第四季的合約量再次成長了 48%，隨後 11 月的合約增加了 55%。

These are very strong year-over-year improvements and these are improvements over last year, which was a great year for us. Some of you might be concerned about our gross margin guidance for the first quarter. Although these contracts are at a lower gross margin, I want to repeat that we made a conscious effort on trading pace for margin, given our focus on inventory turns, EBIT ROIs, and QMIs.

這些都是非常強勁的逐年改進，並且比去年有所改進，去年對我們來說是偉大的一年。你們中的一些人可能會擔心我們第一季的毛利率指引。儘管這些合約的毛利率較低，但我想重申，鑑於我們對庫存週轉率、息稅前利潤投資回報率和品質管理指數的關注，我們在利潤率交易速度上做出了有意識的努力。

The improved sales pace and the expected corresponding growth in revenues should result in continued industry-leading inventory turns, EBIT ROI, and ROE over the coming year. In closing, the housing market continues to show positive fundamentals notwithstanding the affordability challenges.

銷售速度的提高和預期的相應收入成長將導致來年庫存週轉率、息稅前利潤投資回報率和淨資產收益率繼續保持行業領先。最後，儘管面臨負擔能力的挑戰，房地產市場仍繼續表現出積極的基本面。

Given the growth in our lot count, our community count, and our land and land development spend, we think we are really well positioned to drive delivery growth in excess of 10% on an annual basis over the next few years and we expect to continue to deliver top tier industry returns for our shareholders.

鑑於我們的地塊數量、社區數量以及土地和土地開發支出的增長，我們認為我們確實處於有利位置，可以在未來幾年內推動交付量每年增長超過 10%，並且我們預計將繼續為我們的股東帶來頂級的產業回報。

That concludes our formal comments and we're happy to turn it over for Q&A now.

我們的正式評論到此結束，我們很高興現在將其移交進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Alan Ratner, Zelman & Associates.

（操作員說明）Alan Ratner，Zelman & Associates。

Hey, guys, good morning. Thanks for all the commentary so far. Very helpful. Ara, I'd love to drill in a little more on the strategy shift might be too strong of a word, but just the kind of the pace versus price kind of decision right now and clearly a bit of a change this quarter. I think we had always expected margins to gradually pull back from the recent levels we've seen, but admittedly it's happening a lot quicker than even we would have expected. And I know this is intentional on your part, but 18% gross margin plus or minus is kind of back to where you were pre-pandemic and it kind of brings your EBIT margin levels down to something in that kind of mid, maybe high-single-digit range. And I'm just curious if you think about the outlook for '25, it doesn't sound like you're anticipating much change in incentives. You do have some unknowns out there with tariffs and labor costs and things like that. Is there a level of gross margin if you were to see some cost creep where you would perhaps shift back to maybe more of a price over pace dynamic? Maybe pull back a little bit on the QMIs or the start base in order to try to preserve that margin or do you feel like there's enough in the bag here that you can kind of maintain this level 18% plus or minus and drive that 10% growth regardless of what happens on cost?

嘿，夥計們，早安。感謝迄今為止的所有評論。非常有幫助。阿拉，我很想深入探討戰略轉變這個詞，這個詞可能有點太重了，但只是現在的節奏與價格決策，而且顯然本季度發生了一些變化。我認為我們一直預期利潤率會從我們最近看到的水平逐漸回落，但不可否認的是，這種情況發生的速度比我們預期的要快得多。我知道這是你們故意的，但是 18% 的毛利率正負有點回到了大流行前的水平，這會讓你們的息稅前利潤水平下降到中等水平，也許是高水平——個位數範圍。我只是很好奇，如果你考慮一下 25 年的前景，聽起來你並沒有預期激勵措施會發生太大變化。關稅、勞動成本等方面確實存在一些未知因素。如果你看到一些成本攀升，你可能會轉向更多的價格超過節奏的動態，那麼毛利率是否有一定水平？也許可以稍微拉低 QMI 或起始基礎，以嘗試保持該利潤，或者您是否覺得這裡有足夠的東西可以維持 18% 加或減的水平並推動 10%無論成本發生什麼，都會增長嗎？

Well, Alan, first I'll note that you certainly were accurate about projecting margin for the industry would drift down from the particularly high levels that they were just post-pandemic. But I do want to remind you of two things. Number one, as Brad said, our first quarter gross margins have historically been the lowest. That is the case again this year. And while that may seem counterintuitive, as Brad mentioned, there are some fixed costs, particularly construction overhead, that are time-related. So it's not just cost subtracted from price. We do expect improvement over the quarters from that level. But given the volatility, we're just going to project a quarter at a time. The second point, I just lost my train of thought. Brad, do you want to jump in on a -- second point on margin?

好吧，艾倫，首先我要指出的是，您對行業利潤率的預測肯定是準確的，該利潤率將從疫情後的特別高水準下降。但我確實想提醒你兩件事。第一，正如布拉德所說，我們第一季的毛利率是歷史最低的。今年的情況再次如此。正如布拉德所提到的，雖然這似乎違反直覺，但有一些固定成本，特別是與時間相關的建設費用。所以這不僅僅是從價格中減去成本。我們確實預計幾季會比該水準有所改善。但考慮到波動性，我們只會一次預測一個季度。第二點，我就失去了思路。布拉德，你想談談保證金上的第二點嗎？

Sure. I think one of the things I'll add, Alan, is as we drive forward growth that we've been talking about, our EBIT margin should improve because our SG&A will improve with more volume. So you start to squeeze some of the other components of EBIT margin through the volume. So if gross margin comes down a little, you can make room for it with better SG&A percentage with growth. The other thing is as we think about whether we would pull back on dates and I think that's what you're thinking about here. We'd have to consider as we move to more land-light and by rolling lot takes, et cetera, we can consider whether we would continue in those communities or not at the point where it doesn't make economic sense to move forward. So the last thing we want to do is sit on an existing asset we own. So we have to consider all those components when deciding whether we would drive for pace versus continue to or try to improve margin and slow pace down.

當然。艾倫，我想我要補充的一件事是，當我們推動我們一直在談論的增長時，我們的息稅前利潤率應該會提高，因為我們的銷售及管理費用將隨著銷量的增加而改善。因此，你開始透過銷售量來擠壓息稅前利潤的其他一些組成部分。因此，如果毛利率略有下降，您可以透過更好的 SG&A 百分比和成長來騰出空間。另一件事是當我們考慮是否會推遲日期時，我想這就是你在這裡考慮的問題。我們必須考慮，當我們轉向更多的土地照明並透過滾動抽籤等方式時，我們可以考慮是否繼續在這些社區中發展，因為前進沒有經濟意義。因此，我們最不想做的就是坐擁我們擁有的既有資產。因此，在決定是加快速度還是繼續前進，還是嘗試提高利潤率並放慢速度時，我們必須考慮所有這些因素。

But I'll focus on the point I was going to enunciate that Brad just touched on. We are shifting to a greater land-light. It's always been part of our strategy. It's becoming even more of our strategy. As you saw from some of the graphs, land-light gross margins are inherently lower than wholly-owned gross margins, which is what we were pre-pandemic that you're comparing to. If everything was perfect, our gross margin should go down because you pay more for a land-light lot than you do for a wholly owned lot that you carry for two years or three years.

但我將重點放在布拉德剛剛提到的我要闡明的觀點。我們正在轉向更大的陸地光。這一直是我們策略的一部分。這越來越成為我們的戰略。正如您從一些圖表中看到的那樣，輕土地毛利率本質上低於全資毛利率，這就是我們在大流行前所比較的毛利率。如果一切都很完美，我們的毛利率應該會下降，因為你為一塊土地支付的費用比為你持有兩年或三年的全資土地支付的費用更高。

But what we've done a lot of analysis and we think our ROI and earnings are much better off with lower margins and higher turnover and a higher sales pace. I want to focus Alan on a 55% increase in sales last month following a 48% increase in sales for the quarter. That, along with what Brad mentioned, the benefits of SG&A, we feel very comfortable are going to offset the margin decrease and it's a tradeoff that's very well worth it. We don't currently expect our gross margins to fall. We actually expect them to be up from the first quarter for all the reasons that we mentioned.

但我們做了很多分析，我們認為，如果利潤率較低，營業額較高，銷售速度較高，我們的投資報酬率和收益會更好。我想重點關注 Alan，繼本季度銷售額增長 48% 後，上個月銷售額增長了 55%。加上布拉德提到的，SG&A 的好處，我們感到非常放心，這將抵消利潤率的下降，這是一個非常值得的權衡。我們目前預計毛利率不會下降。由於我們提到的所有原因，我們實際上預計它們會比第一季上升。

Great. And I appreciate all that added color and understood on all those points and I think it makes a lot of sense. Brad, I was going to -- my second part was going to be kind of on the topic you ended with, which is kind of the asset-light land-light strategy and how it gives you that flexibility to either attempt to renegotiate or maybe walk away from deals that no longer makes sense. I'm just curious if you've started that process in any markets or any communities at this point. Are there any deals where they're no longer making economic sense at the prior underwriting or is that still kind of a ways off into the future?

偉大的。我很欣賞所有這些增加的色彩並理解所有這些要點，我認為這很有意義。布拉德，我打算——我的第二部分將是關於你最後的主題，這是一種輕資產、輕土地的策略，以及它如何為你提供嘗試重新談判或可能的靈活性。再有意義的交易。我只是好奇您目前是否已在任何市場或任何社區開始該流程。是否有任何交易在先前的承銷中不再具有經濟意義，或在未來仍有一段路要走？

Yeah, we haven't had to do that yet, Alan. Certainly, something we look at with every community as it's performing. But fortunately, we haven't had to walk away or frankly renegotiate anything at the moment. As you can see in our numbers, we did have a couple of impairments for stuff that we did own where we were underperforming and we had to make an impairment. But our walkaways have been very normal, which is typically walkaways that happen during the due diligence period as opposed to something that happens once we've gotten going. So fortunately, so far, no, we have not had to do that.

是的，我們還不必這樣做，艾倫。當然，我們會關注每個社區的表現。但幸運的是，我們目前不必離開或坦率地重新談判任何事情。正如您在我們的數據中看到的那樣，我們確實對我們擁有的表現不佳的東西進行了一些減值，並且我們必須進行減值。但我們的離職非常正常，這通常是在盡職調查期間發生的，而不是我們開始後發生的事情。幸運的是，到目前為止，我們還不必這樣做。

Hey, Alan, I'll mention one other fact that's interesting and has not been focused on very often and that is that as we go more toward a land-light strategy, and as you saw, we're one of the leaders in that area, our balance sheet has a lower percentage of land and land development of a -- as a percentage of our overall balance sheet compared to work in process.

嘿，艾倫，我要提到另一個有趣但不經常被關注的事實，那就是，隨著我們更多地走向陸地輕型戰略，正如你所看到的，我們是這方面的領導者之一地區，與在製品相比，我們的資產負債表中土地和土地開發占我們整體資產負債表的百分比較低。

And I mention that because it really is a risk reducer because if the market slows down, it's much easier to turn a finished home into liquidity than it does a raw or developed lot into liquidity. So we feel like one of the side benefits of the QMI strategy is more safety as well, because you could get liquidity extremely fast, even faster than we were able to in prior cycles.

我之所以提到這一點，是因為它確實可以降低風險，因為如果市場放緩，將成品房屋轉化為流動性比將未加工或已開發的房屋轉化為流動性要容易得多。因此，我們認為 QMI 策略的附帶好處之一也更安全，因為您可以非常快速地獲得流動性，甚至比我們在先前的週期中更快。

Makes a lot of sense. And one last quick housekeeping question. The joint venture guide for $15 million to $30 million is that kind of just straight profitability from JVs or are there any consolidations contemplated within that guide like you had last quarter.

很有道理。最後一個快速的內務問題。1500 萬至 3000 萬美元的合資企業指南是合資企業的直接盈利能力，或者該指南中是否有像上個季度那樣考慮的合併。

That's just straight normal JV income. There's no consolidations considered in that number.

這只是正常的合資收入。這個數字沒有考慮合併。

Great. All right. Thanks a lot, guys. Appreciate it. Good luck and Happy Holidays.

偉大的。好的。非常感謝，夥計們。欣賞它。祝你好運，節日快樂。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, thank you. Same to you, Alan.

好的，謝謝。你也一樣，艾倫。

Alex Barron, Housing Research Center.

亞歷克斯·巴倫，住房研究中心。

Yes. Thanks, guys, and great job in the quarter. Glad to see the growth is coming. I wanted to ask about, is there any thought or possibility that you guys could be taking out the debt earlier than its maturity and able to swap it for a lower interest rate debt.

是的。謝謝大家，本季工作非常出色。很高興看到增長即將到來。我想問一下，你們是否有任何想法或可能性可以在債務到期之前取出債務並能夠將其換成較低利率的債務。

Yeah, I mean, Alex, it's something that we're looking at. As you probably know, a lot of that debt currently has pretty high prepayment penalties. So it's a balance of considering what the lower rate might be versus the cost of doing that. As I mentioned, we're going to pay off the $27 million that's coming due in 2026. We'll do that in a year early.

是的，我的意思是，亞歷克斯，這是我們正在考慮的事情。您可能知道，目前許多債務的提前還款罰金相當高。因此，這是考慮較低利率與這樣做的成本之間的平衡。正如我所提到的，我們將在 2026 年償還到期的 2700 萬美元。我們將提前一年做到這一點。

So just in a few months here we're going to pay that off. But otherwise, we are monitoring as the call premiums reduce versus what we expect we might be able to issue new debt at and consider when we should do that. So it's something we're definitely paying attention to. But those make calls or call premiums are at the moment pretty significant.

所以幾個月後我們就會還清這筆錢。但除此之外，我們正在監控看漲期權保費相對於我們預期能夠發行新債券的下降情況，並考慮何時應該這樣做。所以這是我們絕對關注的事情。但目前這些撥打電話或電話費相當可觀。

Yeah. However, I think it's fair to emphasize that as the call premiums become more reasonable, there will be significant savings in interest. If all things hold semi-steady with the current levels when we do refinance, there will be significant savings in our interest costs and it's not way out in the future. It's -- the opportunities are going to be coming pretty soon as our call premiums reduce rapidly.

是的。然而，我認為可以公平地強調，隨著看漲期權費變得更加合理，利息將會大幅節省。如果我們進行再融資時，一切都保持在目前的水平上，那麼我們的利息成本將會大大節省，這在未來並不是出路。隨著我們的看漲期權保費迅速下降，機會很快就會到來。

Yeah, I mean, that's the hope. As far as share buybacks, I couldn't figure out if you guys bought any this quarter. I know you did in the last couple of quarters.

是的，我的意思是，這就是希望。至於股票回購，我不知道你們這個季度是否買了股票。我知道你在過去幾個季度做到了。

We did not have any in the fourth quarter.

我們在第四季沒有任何進展。

Okay. And as far as your shift towards increasing sales pace, is there like a average target you guys are trying to aim at?

好的。至於你們轉向提高銷售速度的轉變，你們是否有一個平均目標？

No, we don't. We just look at pricing and pace on a community-by-community basis. So we don't have a specific target.

不，我們不。我們只是逐一社區地檢視定價和節奏。所以我們沒有具體的目標。

It's something we certainly consider is in many cases because we've moved to more land-light, we've got scheduled land take requirements, lot take requirements per month or per quarter. So we want to at least make sure we're hitting a sales space that hits those requirements. If we go faster, we can buy the lot faster, but -- and so we would consider doing that, but we certainly want to make sure we're at least hitting the pace we need to hit the minimum lot takedowns.

在很多情況下，我們當然會考慮這一點，因為我們已經轉向更多的土地利用，我們有預定的土地佔用要求，每月或每季的批次佔用要求。因此，我們至少要確保我們的銷售空間能夠滿足這些要求。如果我們走得更快，我們可以更快地購買批次，但是——所以我們會考慮這樣做，但我們當然希望確保我們至少達到了達到最低批次拆除所需的速度。

Got it. And if I could ask one more, I saw some homes advertised with a 3.5% mortgage rate and I was wondering if that was just a temporary thing that led to the lower guidance. In other words, if you're no longer offering that, is there a chance that margins could bounce back in the back half of the year?

知道了。如果我可以再問一個問題的話，我看到一些房屋的抵押貸款利率為 3.5%，我想知道這是否只是暫時的事情導致指導值較低。換句話說，如果你不再提供這種服務，利潤率有可能在今年下半年反彈嗎？

There's certainly a chance that margins could get better in the back half of the year. It all depends on what happens with mortgage rates, what happens with the market, and what it takes to sell the homes and maintain the pace we want to maintain. The example you gave on our website, we do have -- we do those advertisements and those incentives by communities.

下半年的利潤率肯定有可能改善。這一切都取決於抵押貸款利率的變化、市場的變化，以及如何出售房屋並保持我們想要保持的速度。你在我們網站上給的例子，我們確實有——我們透過社群做這些廣告和激勵措施。

So we can have one or two communities that might have very low rate, while other communities wouldn't have been as low. So it's certainly something we look at every community, how that community is performing, what the peers, competitors to that community or offering to make sure we're competitive. But your point about whether margins could get better later in the year? We absolutely think that could happen if the market were to get stronger or mortgage rates come down and the cost of the buydowns we're giving decreases. So that's certainly a possibility.

因此，我們可以有一兩個社區的利率非常低，而其他社區則不會那麼低。因此，我們當然會關注每個社區，該社區的表現如何，該社區的同行、競爭對手或產品是什麼，以確保我們具有競爭力。但您認為今年稍後利潤率是否會有所改善？我們絕對認為，如果市場走強或抵押貸款利率下降並且我們提供的購買成本下降，這種情況就可能發生。所以這當然是有可能的。

I'll add that similar to retail stores, even if a community offers a 3.5% 30-year fixed, it doesn't mean every home in the community is. It's usually for a select number of homes that have been finished and are ready to deliver. It's not an across the board offering.

我要補充的是，與零售商店類似，即使社區提供 3.5% 的 30 年固定利率，也不代表社區中的每個家庭都是如此。它通常適用於選定數量的已完工並準備交付的房屋。這不是一個全面的產品。

Got it. Yeah, I assume that. Okay, guys, well, best of luck for 2025. Thanks.

知道了。是的，我認為是這樣。好吧，夥計們，祝 2025 年好運。謝謝。

Okay. Thanks, Alex.

好的。謝謝，亞歷克斯。

Austin Hopper, AWH Capital.

奧斯汀·霍珀，AWH 資本。

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my question. And you answered several of them already. You talked about SG&A as a percentage of revenues. I guess, it was 11.4% in the year. Can you give us a sense like what that can trend towards in future periods kind of as you scale your business and how that would potentially offset some amount of gross margins?

嘿，夥計們，謝謝你提出我的問題。您已經回答了其中幾個問題。您談到了 SG&A 佔收入的百分比。我猜，今年是 11.4%。您能否讓我們了解一下，隨著業務規模的擴大，未來一段時間內可能會出現什麼趨勢，以及這將如何抵消一定的毛利率？

I think as we grow, we've talked about the fact that we've had to invest ahead in some of the growth, but as we intimated in the remarks, we said we think we're positioned for 10% plus growth over the next few years. And if we can achieve that, I think SG&A goes from 11.4% to something south of 10% ultimately, which still would put us at the high end of the range of our homebuilding peers. So we're continuing to look at ways to drive that further. But just pure growth should get us into single-digits over the next couple of years if we can grow the way we anticipate.

我認為，隨著我們的成長，我們已經討論過這樣一個事實，即我們必須提前投資於一些增長，但正如我們在評論中暗示的那樣，我們認為我們的目標是在2019 年實現10% 以上的成長。如果我們能夠實現這一目標，我認為 SG&A 最終會從 11.4% 上升到 10% 以上，這仍然會讓我們處於住宅建築同行的高端水平。因此，我們正在繼續尋找進一步推動這一目標的方法。但如果我們能夠按照預期的方式成長，那麼在未來幾年內，純粹的成長應該會讓我們達到個位數。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Thank you. I am showing no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn it back to Ara Hovnanian for closing remarks.

謝謝。我目前沒有提出任何進一步的問題。現在我想請阿拉‧霍夫納尼安 (Ara Hovnanian) 致閉幕詞。

Thank you very much. We are pleased with the results for our last quarter and we look forward to giving you continued great results during fiscal '25. Thank you.

非常感謝。我們對上一季的業績感到滿意，並期待在 25 財年繼續為您帶來出色的業績。謝謝。

This concludes our conference call for today. Thank you all for participating and have a nice day. All parties may disconnect.

我們今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的參與並祝您有美好的一天。所有各方都可以斷開連接。