Howard Hughes Holdings Inc (HHH) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Howard Hughes Holdings fourth quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加霍華·休斯控股公司2025年第四季財報電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, John Saxon, VP, Corporate Strategy. Please go ahead.

現在我謹將會議交給今天的主講人，企業策略副總裁約翰‧薩克森先生。請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to the Howard Hughes fourth quarter 2025 earnings call. With me today are Bill Ackman, Executive Chairman; David O’Reilly, Chief Executive Officer; Ryan Israel, Chief Investment Officer; and Carlos Olea, Chief Financial Officer.

早安，歡迎參加霍華休斯公司2025年第四季財報電話會議。今天與我一同出席的有：執行主席比爾·阿克曼；首席執行官大衛·奧萊利；首席投資官瑞安·以色列；以及首席財務官卡洛斯·奧萊亞。

Before we begin, I would like to direct you to our website, www.howardhughes.com, where you can download both our fourth quarter earnings press release and our supplemental package. The earnings release and supplemental package include reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures that will be discussed today in relation to their most directly comparable GAAP financial measures.

在開始之前，我想引導您訪問我們的網站 www.howardhughes.com，您可以在那裡下載我們第四季度收益新聞稿和補充資料包。獲利報告和補充資料中包含非GAAP財務指標的調節表，今天將結合最直接可比較的GAAP財務指標進行討論。

Certain statements made today that are not in the present tense or that discuss the company's expectations are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Although the company believes that the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are based upon reasonable assumptions, we can give no assurance that these expectations will be achieved.

今天發表的某些非現在時態的聲明或討論公司預期的聲明，屬於聯邦證券法意義上的前瞻性聲明。儘管公司認為此類前瞻性聲明中所反映的預期是基於合理的假設，但我們無法保證這些預期能夠實現。

Please see the forward-looking statement disclaimer in our fourth quarter earnings press release and the risk factors in our SEC filings for factors that could cause material differences between forward-looking statements and actual results. We are not under any duty to update forward-looking statements unless required by law.

請參閱我們第四季度收益新聞稿中的前瞻性聲明免責聲明以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中的風險因素，以了解可能導致前瞻性聲明與實際結果之間存在重大差異的因素。除非法律要求，否則我們沒有義務更新前瞻性聲明。

I will now turn the call over to our Executive Chairman, Bill Ackman.

現在我將把電話交給我們的執行主席比爾·阿克曼。

Thank you very much, Sean. And let me just add one addition to the room, Jill Chapman. Jill was formerly Head of IR for Hilton, and we're very pleased to announce that we brought her on in an IR capacity at Pershing Square, and she's also going to help, of course, with our investment in Howard Hughes.

非常感謝你，肖恩。我還想補充一位嘉賓，吉爾·查普曼。Jill 曾是希爾頓酒店的投資者關係主管，我們非常高興地宣布，我們已聘請她擔任 Pershing Square 的投資者關係職務，當然，她也將協助我們對霍華休斯公司的投資。

While we're on the topic of IR, I just thought it would be useful as this business kind of transforms from a pure-play real estate and real estate development company into a diversified holding company led by our recent announcement to acquire Vantage Holdings, good question and some questions I've received from shareholders is how should we think about this business? What are the metrics that we should follow?

既然我們談到了投資者關係，我想鑑於這家公司正從一家純粹的房地產和房地產開發公司轉型為一家多元化控股公司（這主要得益於我們最近宣布收購 Vantage Holdings），因此，我認為有必要談談投資者關係。股東們提出的一個很好的問題，也是我收到的一些問題，就是我們該如何看待這家公司？我們應該遵循哪些指標？

And I think Howard Hughes over time, also suffered a bit from shareholders trying to figure out how do I think about this business. And the conventional public company, there's usually a certain amount of GAAP earnings or an adjusted number or a free cash flow number and people want a simple rubric for thinking about it. What multiple do I put on this number? How do I track this number over time and the multiples determined based on the persistency and the growth of those kind of earnings over time.

而且我認為，隨著時間的推移，霍華休斯也受到了一些股東的困擾，他們試圖弄清楚他對這家企業的看法。對於傳統的上市公司，通常會有一定的GAAP收益、調整後收益或自由現金流數據，人們希望有一個簡單的衡量標準來理解這些數據。這個數字應該乘以多少？我該如何追蹤這個數字隨時間的變化，以及根據這類收益的持續性和成長情況所確定的倍數？

And when you think about the Howard Hughes business, it's very challenging in our view and actually, it's hard to get to proper indication of value using a conventional approach. And I think you have to think about the business according to its sort of different components. So the easiest place to begin, of course, is with stabilized income-producing real estate assets, apartments, office, retail, et cetera. Obviously, these are easy -- relatively easy to manage. There are plenty of comparables you can look at.

而當我們思考霍華德·休斯公司時，我們認為它極具挑戰性，實際上，用傳統方法很難對其價值做出正確的判斷。我認為你應該根據企業的不同組成部分來考慮它。當然，最容易入手的就是能穩定產生收入的房地產資產，例如公寓、辦公大樓、零售物業等等。顯然，這些都很容易——相對容易管理。有很多可比較案例可以參考。

And I think the only complexity at Howard Hughes is thinking about as we lease up assets, right, assets that are 95% rented, fully stabilized, it's easy, but we always have some amount of development, some amount of lease up in the portfolio. But still, I think that's a pretty easy place to begin.

我認為霍華德休斯公司唯一複雜的地方在於，當我們出租資產時，對於出租率達到 95% 且完全穩定的資產來說，這很容易，但我們的投資組合中總會有一些開發案和一些待出租的資產。但我仍然認為這是一個相當容易的起點。

Then there's our condominium business. And we have kind of a pipeline of product under contract. You get pretty good estimates of what the margins are on those sales as those properties get delivered. I think a DCF is a pretty straightforward way to think about what those assets are worth. And because we really don't start building until we have sold a substantial majority of the units in these projects, and we've got a very good track record of delivering them on time and on budget. It's a very low-risk business compared to what people normally think about an economy business where you're highly speculative, you have to build as soon as you can because you've levered up to buy a piece of property.

此外，我們還有公寓業務。我們還有一些正在洽談中的產品項目。隨著這些房產的交付，你可以相當準確地估算出這些銷售的利潤率。我認為用現金流折現法來衡量這些資產的價值是相當直接的方法。而且，我們只有在這些項目中的大部分單元售出後才會開始建造，我們在按時按預算交付方面有著非常好的記錄。與人們通常認為的經濟類業務相比，這是一個風險非常低的業務。在經濟類業務中，投機性很強，你必須盡快進行建設，因為你已經透過槓桿購買了一塊土地。

Here, of course, we own the real estate outright. We can pick our moment and we don't start construction until we know this is going to be a successful product with a lot of demand. And today, we've got how -- many million square feet left of product without -- why don't we start there, Hawaii?

當然，我們擁有這處房產的完全所有權。我們可以挑選合適的時機，只有在確定這款產品會大受歡迎、市場需求旺盛之後，才會開始建造。今天，我們面臨著數百萬平方英尺的產品尚未開發的問題——為什麼不從夏威夷開始呢？

Well, just in Hawaii alone, we unlocked another $3 million to $4 million of entitlements this past year.

光是夏威夷一年，我們就額外獲得了 300 萬至 400 萬美元的福利。

Okay. So the $3 million to $4 million plus --

好的。所以，300萬到400萬美元以上--

Plus the existing pipeline that's in the portfolio today that's largely presale, as you noted though.

此外，正如您所指出的，目前投資組合中還有大量預售項目。

Okay. So you can think about that, it's a bit like drilling oil. There's a finite amount of it. However, we have an incredibly talented team in Hawaii. We've built a real franchise and brand in Hawaii. And if you're a major land owner in Hawaii, and you want a partner to deliver -- turn that land into a valuable condominium product. There's no better place to turn than Howard Hughes.

好的。你可以這樣想，這有點像是鑽探石油。它的數量是有限的。然而，我們在夏威夷擁有一支才華橫溢的團隊。我們在夏威夷建立了一個真正的特許經營品牌。如果你是夏威夷的大地主，並且想要一個合作夥伴來幫助你實現目標——將土地變成有價值的公寓產品。沒有比霍華·休斯更好的求助對象了。

So I expect that what is today a $3 million to $4 million square foot pipeline of new product is going to grow over time as we either buy other land or we joint venture or other property in Hawaii because of the franchise we've built. So there's an existing pipeline, you can sort of value on a DCF basis, and there's an option on the franchise, if you will, and our ability to develop other assets.

因此，我預計目前價值 300 萬至 400 萬美元的新產品儲備將隨著時間的推移而增長，因為我們將在夏威夷購買其他土地、合資企業或其他房產，這都得益於我們已經建立的特許經營權。所以，目前已經有了專案儲備，你可以用現金流折現法來評估其價值，而且我們還擁有特許經營權的選擇權，以及開發其他資產的能力。

And of course, there's the MPC business. And I think, again, people are looking to put -- how do I come up with a metric, what -- profits from PCs and it's kind of grown over time. And so can I -- what's the right multiple and how do I think about it? And that's where I would say, I don't think a multiple is the right way to look at it. We are stewards, if you will, for 21,000 acres of potential residential land. And we set that land up to be sold by generally building out infrastructure. Some of these lots can be sold ultimately to homebuilders who in turn will build homes and sell them to customers.

當然，還有 MPC 業務。而且我認為，人們再次希望衡量──我該如何制定一個衡量標準呢？ ——個人電腦的利潤，而且隨著時間的推移，利潤也不斷增加。我也可以－合適的倍數是多少？我該如何考慮它？所以我覺得，用倍數來衡量這個問題並不合適。我們可以說是這21000英畝潛在住宅用地的管理者。我們透過完善基礎設施，為出售這塊土地做好了準備。這些地塊中的一些最終可以賣給房屋建築商，他們再建造房屋並賣給客戶。

But we're very judicious in the way that we bring that property to market in that we have a finite supply, we want to sort of optimize between kind of price and volume. We want to make sure that our homebuilders never end up with too much inventory. And we -- as a result, and the way we've managed it, we've been able to -- if you look at the compound annual kind of growth rate in our residential land values on a per acre basis in our various MPCs, it's been, I would say, quite extraordinary.

但我們在將該房產推向市場時非常謹慎，因為供應有限，我們希望在價格和數量之間取得某種程度的平衡。我們希望確保我們的房屋建築商永遠不會出現庫存積壓的情況。因此，憑藉我們採取的管理方式，我們能夠——如果你看一下我們各個MPC中住宅用地價值每英畝的複合年增長率，我認為，這相當非凡。

And we care, obviously, about the cash we generate from any one year's lot sales, but we care more about making sure we do this in a manner where our remaining 21,000 acres continues to increase in value over time. And we help that value grow by being a good developer, by being a good manager of these small cities or these large -- very large scale MPCs, making sure that we're delivering the right product and we're doing it in a way the market is never saturated with excess supply.

我們當然關心每年地塊銷售帶來的現金收入，但我們更關心的是確保我們以某種方式進行銷售，使我們剩餘的 21,000 英畝土地的價值隨著時間的推移而不斷增長。我們透過成為優秀的開發商，成為這些小型城市或大型（非常大規模的）MPC的優秀管理者，幫助這種價值增長，確保我們交付正確的產品，並且我們以一種不會使市場因供應過剩而飽和的方式來做到這一點。

And it's a really great business. But it's not one where -- sometimes you're going to be opportunistic, a buyer comes along and wants to buy a large pad in Summerlin, and we make the economic decision that this is a smart thing for us to do today. And a year later, we could say, you know what, we're not going to do any such large sales. In that kind of world, I think, trying to value the MPC business on a multiple of kind of any one year's profit is really not the right way to think about it.

而且這真是一家很棒的公司。但這不是那種——有時候你會抓住機會，有個買家想在薩默林買一棟大房子，然後我們做出經濟決定，認為今天這樣做對我們來說是明智的。一年後，我們可能會說，你知道嗎，我們不會再進行這麼大規模的銷售了。我認為，在那種情況下，試圖以任何一年的利潤倍數來評估 MPC 業務的價值，真的不是正確的思考方式。

So how should one think about the real estate business? And I think the way we think about it is we come up with kind of an intrinsic NAV or other assessment of the value of the existing assets. And we look to grow that over time. Some amount of it we convert into cash every year. NOI from the stabilized assets, profit from our existing MPCs. And as we sell off residential land, if you will, gone forever.

那麼，人們該如何看待房地產產業呢？我認為我們思考這個問題的方式是，我們得出一種內在淨值或其他對現有資產價值的評估。我們希望隨著時間的推移，這個數字能夠不斷成長。每年我們會將其中一部分兌換成現金。來自穩定資產的淨營業收入，以及來自我們現有MPC的利潤。而當我們出售住宅用地時，這些土地就永遠消失了。

But one of the things that we've been able to accomplish as a company is while we have a finite supply of land, we've been able to drive price per acre on a very significant basis, which makes that finite supply on a present value basis actually continue to grow in value. So I think the metrics you should think about when you're trying to assess the value of your real estate company is some capitalized value for our stabilized income-producing assets, maybe a present value calculation for our condominium development.

但我們公司的成就之一是，雖然土地供應有限，但我們能夠大幅提高每英畝的價格，這使得有限的土地供應在現值基礎上繼續增值。所以我認為，在評估房地產公司的價值時，你應該考慮的指標是我們穩定的創收資產的資本化價值，或是我們公寓開發專案的現值計算。

And then I think a similar kind of present value metric for valuing the MPC business, bearing in mind that if we choose not to sell land today, it's going to be worth more in the future. And we're just making a decision, is it better to monetize a piece of land -- residential land today? Or are we going to do better holding it for the next year or two years and allowing it to kind of appreciate in value?

我認為，對於MPC業務的估值，也可以採用類似的現值指標，因為如果我們今天選擇不出售土地，那麼土地在未來會更有價值。我們現在要做的決定是，將一塊土地——如今的住宅用地——貨幣化是否更好？或者我們最好持有它一兩年，讓它升值？

So maybe not the -- again, this is not a company that's going to be a simple -- you get one number every quarter, and you can put a multiple on it, or you can annualize it and get to a value. It's a business where we're going to do our best, and we'll work with Jill. We'll work with the team and coming up with some kind of good sort of KPIs you can track on a quarterly basis to see how much progress we're making.

所以也許不是——再說一遍，這家公司的情況並不簡單——你每個季度都會得到一個數字，然後你可以給它乘以一個倍數，或者你可以把它年化，然後得到一個價值。這是一項我們會盡全力做好的事業，我們會和吉爾一起努力。我們將與團隊合作，制定一些好的關鍵績效指標 (KPI)，您可以按季度追蹤這些指標，以了解我們取得了多少進展。

But the places where I would focus is the growth in NOI, the per acre value of the finished lots that we deliver on each of their communities, how quickly is that growing? That gives you some sense of the value of our remaining land assets and then the progress we're making in terms of delivering economies and the margins that we're generating and then our ability to continue to extend that franchise. So that's real estate.

但我關注的重點是淨營業收入的成長，也就是我們為每個社區交付的已建成地塊的每英畝價值，以及它的成長速度有多快？這讓您對我們剩餘土地資產的價值、我們在實現經濟效益和創造利潤方面取得的進展以及我們繼續擴展特許經營權的能力有所了解。這就是房地產。

We expect to close our Vantage Holdings transaction. We remain confident we can get it done by the upcoming quarter, let's say, by June, that process requires certain regulatory approvals. We've had the various meetings and sort of some more has come in the relative short term, but I see no reason why we won't meet kind of our expectations. Now with the addition of a $2.1 billion insurance asset, again, coming up with some kind of consolidated earnings number is really not the right way to think about this business going forward.

我們預計將完成 Vantage Holdings 的交易。我們仍然有信心在下一季完成這項工作，比如說，在六月完成，但這個過程需要獲得某些監管部門的批准。我們已經舉行了各種會議，在相對較短的時間內還會舉行更多會議，但我認為我們沒有理由達不到預期目標。現在，隨著 21 億美元的保險資產的加入，再次計算出某種合併收益數字並不是思考這家企業未來發展的正確方法。

And we're going to want to point you to growth in the book value of the insurer and the returns that we're earning on that book value as kind of key indicators of our progress in building a valuable insurance company. I would say both insurance companies today are valued based on precisely that if they can earn high returns on capital, they're deserving of a higher multiple of book value, they are in the low returns, they're deserving of lower multiple.

我們想向您展示保險公司帳面價值的成長以及我們從該帳面價值中獲得的收益，作為衡量我們在打造有價值的保險公司方面取得進展的關鍵指標。我認為，如今兩家保險公司的估值正是基於這樣的原則：如果它們能夠獲得高資本回報率，它們就應該獲得更高的賬面價值倍數；如果它們的回報率很低，它們就應該獲得較低的賬面價值倍數。

As we kind of ramp up the investment portfolio from a pure play fixed income portfolio that's externally managed by BlackRock and Goldman Sachs to one managed by Pershing Square with greater emphasis on kind of higher return kind of common stock investments. And as we kind of grow the insurer with a focus on profitability, we expect to be able to build a very profitable, high ROE insurer kind of over time. And we'll do our best to give you metrics to kind of track or come up with your own assessment of intrinsic value of the overall company, keeping you informed on the real estate side, keeping you obviously closely informed on the insurance side.

隨著我們將投資組合從貝萊德和高盛外部管理的純粹固定收益投資組合，逐步轉向由潘興廣場管理的、更注重高回報普通股投資的投資組合。隨著我們不斷發展壯大保險公司，並專注於獲利能力，我們期望能夠隨著時間的推移，打造一家盈利能力強、ROE（淨資產收益率）高的保險公司。我們會盡最大努力為您提供指標，以便您追蹤或自行評估公司的整體內在價值，讓您了解房地產方面的情況，當然也會讓您密切了解保險方面的情況。

But this is a business that you should think of based on kind of compound annual growth in intrinsic value as opposed to any straightforward earnings metric? I'm sorry, it's not as easy as a widget company when you look at how many widgets you made and what the incremental margin that you generate from each widget sale. But we do think the ultimate long-term outcome will be one that you're happy about.

但是，對於這類企業，你應該根據其內在價值的複合年增長率來考慮，而不是任何直接的獲利指標？抱歉，這並不像小部件公司那麼簡單，你需要考慮你生產了多少小部件，以及每個小部件銷售所產生的增量利潤是多少。但我們相信，從長遠來看，最終的結果一定會讓您滿意。

The -- I guess the last point I would make is we will spend some time on this topic at the upcoming next quarter meeting, I don't think maybe before the closing of Vantage, but just -- and provide enough time for us to kind of help the market come up with some KPIs to think about kind of big business products.

最後一點是，我們將在即將到來的下個季度會議上花些時間討論這個話題，我估計不會在 Vantage 完成交易之前，但會留出足夠的時間，幫助市場製定一些關鍵績效指標，以便思考大型企業產品。

With that, I'll turn it over to Ryan Israel. Go ahead, Ryan.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給瑞安以色列。請繼續，瑞恩。

Thanks, Bill. And as Bill touched on, I just wanted to really explain to people again why we're so excited to have the upcoming closing of Vantage is the first transaction to really help transform Howard Hughes into a diversified holding company. And as we talked about in December, we think that the insurance business itself is a very good business, and we really think the platform that Vantage has created is incredibly valuable and will (inaudible) Howard Hughes shareholders benefits.

謝謝你，比爾。正如比爾剛才提到的，我只是想再次向大家解釋一下，為什麼我們對即將完成的 Vantage 交易如此興奮，因為這是真正幫助霍華德休斯轉型為多元化控股公司的第一筆交易。正如我們在 12 月討論的那樣，我們認為保險業務本身就是一個非常好的業務，我們真的認為 Vantage 創建的平台非常有價值，並將（聽不清楚）霍華休斯股東受益。

Vantage itself is actually a very diversified insurance platform across it's more than two dozen lines of business, both in the specialty insurance and the reinsurance segments. It's got a great and highly experienced management team. The CEO, Greg Hendrick, has been in the business for more than 30 years and has a very strong reputation.

Vantage 本身實際上是一個非常多元化的保險平台，涵蓋二十多個業務領域，包括專業保險和再保險領域。它擁有一支優秀且經驗豐富的管理團隊。執行長格雷格·亨德里克從事該行業已有 30 多年，享有很高的聲譽。

We also think one of the things that's unique about Vantage is that it has very limited risk to its existing reserves. The company was founded in 2020. And so one of the nice benefits is that a lot of the problems in the insurance industry today in terms of reserving exists because companies wrote business in 2015 to 2019 timeframe for which they're effectively underreserved. So Vantage is really sidestepped any of these problems because of how recent it is. And that made it increased our confidence in doing diligence, the company's book value is very strong and its reserves were appropriate.

我們認為 Vantage 的獨特之處在於，它現有儲量面臨的風險非常有限。該公司成立於2020年。因此，一個好的好處是，目前保險業在準備金方面存在的許多問題，都是因為保險公司在 2015 年至 2019 年期間承保了實際上準備金不足的業務。由於 Vantage 推出時間較短，因此它實際上避開了所有這些問題。這增強了我們對盡職調查的信心，該公司的帳面價值非常強勁，其儲備金也適當。

Naturally, the company has the appropriate licenses and credit ratings that we think are great. And ultimately, we think what we're doing, the capital that we're putting in and the umbrella from Howard Hughes will be able to enhance those credit ratings over time.

當然，該公司擁有相應的許可證和信用評級，我們認為這非常好。最終，我們認為我們正在做的事情、我們投入的資金以及霍華休斯公司的擔保，將能夠隨著時間的推移提高這些信用評級。

And then importantly, for an insurer, one of the key components for insurers is writing profitably, as Bill mentioned. But the other side, and you could argue perhaps even the more important side for the highest returning insurers over time, is actually the investment returns that they can earn on our portfolio. Every insurance company has flow that they generate for claims that they're receiving cash in today for premiums and then claims will be paid out later to generate float. At the same time, they have a large capital base. And so the combination of those two factors really leads to their overall invested asset portfolio.

而且，對保險公司來說，獲利是關鍵因素之一，正如比爾所提到的。但另一方面，你甚至可以說，對於長期回報最高的保險公司而言，這或許是更重要的一面，那就是他們可以從我們的投資組合中獲得的投資回報。每家保險公司都有其資金流動，即今天收到保費現金，然後稍後支付理賠款項以產生資金周轉資金。同時，他們擁有龐大的資本基礎。因此，這兩個因素的結合最終決定了他們的整體投資資產組合。

As Bill mentioned, Vantage has been invested in fixed income, which has a lower return, although we've outlined in December where we think fixed income products actually can have a fair amount of risk as well in a variety of ways.

正如比爾所提到的，Vantage 一直投資於固定收益產品，其回報率較低，儘管我們在 12 月已經概述了我們認為固定收益產品實際上也會在各種方面存在相當大的風險。

What we plan to do is leverage the investment expertise of Pershing Square in order to really help improve the investment asset returns over time and naturally then also the returns on equity by allocating a meaningful portion of that investment portfolio towards the common stocks. And based upon Pershing Square's more than two-decade track record, we think that could be very additive to Vantage's returns on equity and ultimately, shareholder returns.

我們計劃利用潘興廣場的投資專長，真正幫助提高投資資產的長期回報，並透過將投資組合中相當一部分資金分配給普通股，自然也能提高股權回報。根據潘興廣場二十多年的業績記錄，我們認為這將大大提高 Vantage 的股本回報率，並最終提高股東回報。

So the way that we think about Vantage overall is that this business can be a higher return and faster-growing business that we can ultimately use to meaningfully enhance Howard Hughes' overall growth profile, while at the same time, providing a very valuable diversification of its earnings streams as it provides a different type of profile other than the real estate business.

因此，我們對 Vantage 的整體看法是，這項業務可以帶來更高的回報和更快的成長，我們最終可以利用它來顯著提升霍華德休斯的整體成長前景，同時，它也為公司的收入來源提供了非常有價值的多元化，因為它提供了與房地產業務不同的收入來源。

As sort of Bill mentioned earlier and David and Carlos will also touch on, we believe that Howard Hughes real estate business is going to generate a meaningful amount of excess cash beyond what needs for reinvestment, particularly over the coming next few years, and that provides a valuable source of opportunity to be reinvesting in Vantage first in order to pay down ultimately the financing primarily the Pershing Square Holdings preferred stock, but also over time, we think the ability to put in more capital into Vantage, which is earning a very high return according to the strategy, we think we'll be able to implement could be a good use of capital, along with looking for other control-oriented businesses in different business lines over time.

正如比爾之前提到的，大衛和卡洛斯也會談到，我們認為霍華休斯房地產業務將產生大量超出再投資需求的盈餘現金，尤其是在未來幾年，這為我們提供了一個寶貴的機會，可以首先將資金再投資於Vantage，最終償還融資，主要是潘興廣場控股的優先股。但隨著時間的推移，我們認為，能夠向Vantage投入更多資金，Vantage根據我們制定的策略獲得了非常高的回報，這可能是一種很好的資本利用方式。同時，我們也會隨著時間的推移，在其他業務領域尋找其他以控制為導向的企業。

And with that, I'll turn it over to David.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給大衛。

Thank you, Ryan. Look, against that backdrop of the Pershing investment and our announced acquisition of Vantage, 2025 was both transformative strategically, but it was also one of the strongest operating years in our history. And in 2025, I just want to highlight that 100% of what I'm going to talk about in our earnings and cash flow were generated by the real estate platform. Our evolution into a diversified holding company is being funded by a real estate engine that continues to perform at a very high level. And I want to talk about each one of those segments now, starting with Master Planned Communities.

謝謝你，瑞恩。你看，在 Pershing 投資和我們宣布收購 Vantage 的背景下，2025 年不僅在策略上具有變革意義，也是我們歷史上營運最強勁的年份之一。2025 年，我只想強調，我接下來要談到的收益和現金流，100% 都是由房地產平台產生的。我們向多元化控股公司的轉型，得益於房地產業務持續保持高水準的強勁表現。現在我想逐一談談這些部分，先從總體規劃社區開始。

Our MPC EBT hit a record this year of $476 million, driven by selling 621 residential acres at an average price per acre of $890,000. Demand was strong in both Summerlin and Bridgeland, where pricing and margin expectations really exceeded the levels that we have predicted at the beginning of the year. Excluding the bulk sale of undeveloped land in Summerlin, finished residential land sold at a record price of $1.7 million per acre, really demonstrating the strength of our entitled and developed product and the embedded value within our communities.

今年，我們的 MPC EBT 創下 4.76 億美元的紀錄，這主要歸功於以平均每英畝 89 萬美元的價格售出了 621 英畝住宅用地。Summerlin 和 Bridgeland 的需求都很強勁，價格和利潤率預期都遠遠超過了我們年初預測的水平。除薩默林未開發土地的大宗銷售外，已建成的住宅用地以每英畝 170 萬美元的創紀錄價格售出，這真正體現了我們已開發和已開發產品的實力以及我們社區的內在價值。

Strategically, within our MPC segment, I'd like to think that we're not just selling land, but we're really harvesting scarcity. Our communities mature and remaining acreage declines, pricing power, not acreage volume becomes a primary driver of long-term profitability. We make deliberate decisions each year regarding how much land to monetize versus hold based on supply-demand dynamics and long-term value creation.

從策略角度來看，在我們的MPC業務板塊，我認為我們不僅僅是在出售土地，而是在真正利用稀缺性。隨著社區發展成熟，剩餘土地面積減少，定價權而非土地面積成為長期獲利能力的主要驅動力。我們每年都會根據供需動態和長期價值創造，慎重決定將多少土地變現，保留多少土地。

We also reached a major milestone this year with the grand opening of Teravalis in Phoenix West Valley. Spanning 37,000 acres and entitled for up to 100,000 homes over time, Teravalis represents one of the most significant long-duration growth engines in our portfolio and remains in the early stages of monetization.

今年，隨著位於鳳凰城西谷的 Teravalis 盛大開業，我們也迎來了一個重要的里程碑。Teravalis 佔地 37,000 英畝，未來可建造多達 100,000 套住宅，是我們投資組合中最重要的長期成長引擎之一，目前仍處於貨幣化的早期階段。

Shifting now to our operating assets. within the operating asset portfolio, we also had a record year, delivering full year NOI of $276 million, up 8% year over year. I think this increase was highlighted by same-store office NOI increasing 11% and multifamily increasing 6%. This really reflects the strong leasing momentum and the disciplined asset management executed throughout the year. Occupancy across our stabilized portfolio remains healthy.

現在轉向我們的營運資產。在營運資產組合中，我們也取得了創紀錄的一年，全年淨營業收入達到 2.76 億美元，年增 8%。我認為，同店辦公大樓淨營業收入成長 11%，多戶住宅淨營業收入成長 6%，凸顯了這一成長。這充分體現了強勁的租賃勢頭和全年執行的嚴格資產管理。我們旗下穩定投資組合的入住率仍維持良好水準。

Importantly, and as Bill highlighted earlier, this segment is our cash flow engine. Unlike MPCs, which generate episodic quarterly earnings tied to land sales, operating assets produce durable recurring cash flow that provides stability to the enterprise supporting both development and capital allocation flexibility.

重要的是，正如比爾之前所強調的那樣，這一部分是我們的現金流引擎。與土地銷售相關的、產生偶發性季度收益的MPC不同，營運資產產生持久的經常性現金流，為企業提供穩定性，支持發展和資本配置的靈活性。

In the fourth quarter, we completed one (inaudible) along the Woodlands waterway. Leasing has begun ahead of expectations, and we anticipate this asset will contribute meaningfully to NOI growth as it stabilized. Over time, we expect the operating asset portfolio and the NOI associated with it to represent an increasing share of the recurring cash flow of the company.

第四季度，我們沿著伍德蘭茲水道完成了一個（聽不清楚）計畫。租賃情況已提前於預期，我們預計隨著資產的穩定，它將對淨營業收入的成長做出重大貢獻。隨著時間的推移，我們預期營運資產組合及其相關的營業淨收入將占公司經常性現金流的越來越大比例。

Now on to strategic development and specifically our condominium platform. Our condominium platform continues to serve as a powerful internally generated capital engine. During 2025, we contracted $1.6 billion of future condo revenue, the strongest year in the company's history. Multiple projects remain substantially presold, including the Park Ward Village at 97%, and Kalae at 93%. While condominium earnings are tied to completion timing and can be lumpy, particularly within Hawaii, where Ward Village is home to our highest value developments. Our approach has evolved to significantly derisk execution.

接下來談談策略發展，特別是我們的公寓平台。我們的公寓平台繼續發揮強大的內部資本引擎作用。2025 年，我們簽訂了價值 16 億美元的未來公寓收入合同，這是公司歷史上業績最好的一年。多個項目仍已基本預售完畢，其中 Park Ward Village 的預售率為 97%，Kalae 的預售率為 93%。雖然公寓收益與竣工時間有關，並且可能波動較大，尤其是在夏威夷，而沃德村正是我們最高價值開發項目的所在地。我們的方法已經發展到可以顯著降低執行風險。

We require substantial presales prior to vertical construction, utilize approximately 60% nonrecourse loan-to-cost financing. Buyer deposits in this financing make these projects largely self-financed, and our presales materially reduced refinancing risk. These developments are expected to generate significant cash flow upon closing, providing capital that can be redeployed across our communities and increasingly across platforms. We view this condo platform as not speculative development but disciplined capital recycling.

我們需要在垂直施工前獲得大量的預售款，並採用約 60% 的無追索權貸款融資成本。買方在此次融資中支付的定金使得這些項目在很大程度上實現了自籌資金，而我們的預售也大大降低了再融資風險。這些項目預計在完成後將產生可觀的現金流，提供可重新部署到我們各個社區以及越來越多的各個平台上的資金。我們認為這個公寓平台不是投機性開發，而是有紀律的資本循環利用。

Finally, last week, we announced Toro District, an 83-acre sports and entertainment development in Bridgeland, anchored by the Houston Texans new global headquarters and training facility. Toro District exemplifies the value embedded in our land positions and our ability to activate them through thoughtful public private partnerships. This project enhances long-term recurring revenue potential, increases the value of the surrounding land, and reinforces the power of our Master Planned Communities model. Importantly, projects of this scale are strengthened, not constrained by our broader capital base as a holding company.

最後，上週我們宣布了 Toro District 項目，這是一個位於 Bridgeland 的 83 英畝的體育娛樂開發項目，其核心是休士頓德州人隊的新全球總部和訓練設施。Toro 區充分體現了我們土地資源的價值，以及我們透過深思熟慮的公私合作關係激活這些資源的能力。此計畫增強了長期經常性收入潛力，提高了周邊土地的價值，並鞏固了我們總體規劃社區模式的優勢。重要的是，作為一家控股公司，我們更廣泛的資本基礎能夠增強此類規模的項目，而不是限制它們的發展。

Overall, 2025 demonstrated both the durability of our real estate engine and the strategically planned evolution of our company.

整體而言，2025 年既展現了我們房地產引擎的持久性，也體現了我們公司策略規劃的發展方向。

With that, I'm going to hand it off to Carlos to talk about 2026 guidance and our financial results.

接下來，我將把發言權交給卡洛斯，讓他談談 2026 年的業績指引和財務結果。

Thank you, David, and good morning, everyone. 2025 results exceed our guidance, and as we look ahead to 2026, we think it's important to provide a framework that reflects normalization and transition. As we transition into a diversified holding company, our reporting framework will evolve accordingly, as you heard Bill say. However, because the Vantage acquisition has not yet closed and because 2025, including an outsized bulk landfill in Summerlin, we believe it is appropriate to provide 2026 guidance to help normalize expectations.

謝謝大衛，大家早安。 2025年的表現超出了我們的預期，展望2026年，我們認為提供一個反映正常化和過渡的框架至關重要。正如比爾所說，隨著我們轉型為多元化控股公司，我們的報告框架也將隨之發展。然而，由於 Vantage 的收購尚未完成，而且 2025 年，包括 Summerlin 的一個超大型垃圾掩埋場，我們認為有必要提供 2026 年的業績指引，以幫助人們正常化預期。

We expect adjusted operating cash flow in the range of $415 million to $465 million. We believe this metric remains the most appropriate consolidated metric as it captures the performance of our operating engines and alliance with how we evaluate capital generation. For MPC, we expect EBIT to be in the range of $343 million to $391 million. Importantly, the expected year-over-year decline is almost entirely attributable to the absence of the Summerlin bulk sale. Excluding that transaction, our 2026 guidance is essentially flat relative to 2025 on a comparable basis.

我們預計調整後的營運現金流在 4.15 億美元至 4.65 億美元之間。我們認為該指標仍然是最合適的綜合指標，因為它反映了我們營運引擎的績效以及我們評估資本產生的方式。對於MPC，我們預計其息稅前利潤將在3.43億美元至3.91億美元之間。值得注意的是，預計同比下降幾乎完全是由於 Summerlin 大宗商品銷售的取消造成的。剔除該交易後，我們 2026 年的業績預期與 2025 年相比基本持平。

MPC earnings will remain inherently lumpy due to acreage timing and monetization decisions. Longer term, we view profitability as driven by pricing power and capital discipline rather than linear acreage volume. While remaining acreage declines over time, we expect price per acre to increase as communities mature, supply tightens, and underlying land value appreciates.

由於土地開發時間和貨幣化決策的影響，MPC 的收益將始終存在波動。從長遠來看，我們認為獲利能力是由定價權和資本紀律驅動的，而不是由線性的土地面積所驅動的。隨著剩餘土地面積逐漸減少，我們預計隨著社區成熟、供應緊張和土地價值上漲，每英畝價格將會上漲。

We believe 2026 guidance reflects a sustainable run rate level of MPC earnings absent large onetime transactions. Our objective in the MPC business is not to maximize any single year's MPC EBT, but to optimize long-term fair acre value and reinvest internally generated capital at attractive risk-adjusted returns.

我們認為，2026 年的業績指引反映了 MPC 盈利的可持續運行水平，前提是沒有大型一次性交易。我們在 MPC 業務中的目標不是最大化任何一年的 MPC EBT，而是優化長期公平的土地價值，並將內部產生的資本以有吸引力的風險調整後回報進行再投資。

Moving on to operating assets. NOI is expected to range between $279 million and $290 million, including our share of NOI from our JV assets. This is an implied increase of 1% to 5% compared to our '25 results. Longer term, we target annual NOI growth in the 3% to 5% range driven by same-store rent growth and development stabilization. While individual years may fluctuate depending on timing of lease-up and development deliveries, we believe the underlying trajectory remains durable and predictable.

接下來是營運資產。預計淨營業收入 (NOI) 將在 2.79 億美元至 2.9 億美元之間，其中包括我們從合資資產中獲得的淨營業收入份額。與 2025 年的業績相比，這意味著成長 1% 至 5%。從長遠來看，我們的目標是透過同店租金成長和開發穩定，實現年度淨營業收入成長 3% 至 5%。雖然個別年份可能會因租賃和開發交付的時間而有所波動，但我們相信其基本趨勢仍然穩定且可預測。

Moving on to condominium. Condominiums under construction and in predevelopment, which are substantially presold, represent approximately $5 billion of remaining expected gross revenue over their life, resulting in an estimated $1.3 billion in profits on a 25% margin. We expect to recognize approximately 40% of these revenues between 2026 and 2027 with the remaining 60% recognized between 2028 and 2030.

接下來是公寓。正在建設和處於預開發階段的公寓，大部分已經預售，預計在其使用壽命內剩餘的總收入約為 50 億美元，以 25% 的利潤率計算，預計可帶來 13 億美元的利潤。我們預計在 2026 年至 2027 年間確認約 40% 的收入，其餘 60% 的收入將在 2028 年至 2030 年間確認。

Our newest towers, Melia and ‘Ilima, are expected to close in 2030 and represent 41% of this future revenues with margins exceeding 25%. For 2026 specifically, we expect condominium gross revenue of approximately 700 to -- $720 million to $750 million, with estimated profit of $108 million to $128 million at margins of 15% to 17%. This is driven primarily by closing of the Ward Village.

我們最新的兩棟建築 Melia 和 Ilima 預計將於 2030 年竣工，屆時將佔未來收入的 41%，利潤率超過 25%。具體到 2026 年，我們預計公寓總收入約為 7 億至 7.2 億至 7.5 億美元，預計利潤為 1.08 億至 1.28 億美元，利潤率為 15% 至 17%。這主要是由於沃德村的關閉造成的。

These margins were impacted by infrastructure work primarily related to electrical work needed to support future development. However, this cost will benefit our future towers, and we expect to see cash margins in the mid-20s except, as I mentioned from Melia and ‘Ilima, which we expect to be in the high 20s when they close in 2030. This backlog provides meaningful visibility into near-term cash generation, which we expect to redeploy across our portfolio and increasingly across platforms.

這些利潤率受到基礎建設的影響，主要與支持未來發展所需的電力工程有關。然而，這項成本將有利於我們未來的塔樓建設，我們預計現金利潤率將在 20% 左右，但正如我之前提到的 Melia 和 Ilima 除外，我們預計它們在 2030 年竣工時，現金利潤率將達到 20% 以上。這份積壓訂單讓我們能夠清楚地了解近期現金流的產生情況，我們預計將把這些現金重新部署到我們的投資組合中，並越來越多地部署到各個平台上。

Turning to G&A. For 2026, we expect cash G&A to range between $82 million and $92 million with a midpoint of approximately $87 million. This includes assumed inflation growth compared to last year as well as a shift in the mix of compensation from noncash to cash. Please note that this range includes the $15 million in annual base fees paid to Pershing Square, but excludes the variable fees, which are based on quarter end stock prices that could be volatile and difficult to predict. Looking forward, we view approximately $87 million as an appropriate operating baseline for the current scale of the organization. We would expect that baseline to grow modestly over time, generally in line with inflation and incremental scale, excluding stock-based compensation.

轉至一般及行政費用。2026 年，我們預期現金一般及行政費用將在 8,200 萬美元至 9,200 萬美元之間，中點約 8,700 萬美元。這包括與去年相比的預期通貨膨脹成長，以及薪酬組成從非現金轉向現金的轉變。請注意，此範圍包括每年向潘興廣場支付的 1500 萬美元基本費用，但不包括可變費用，可變費用是根據季度末的股票價格計算的，而股票價格可能波動較大且難以預測。展望未來，我們認為以目前組織的規模而言，約 8,700 萬美元是一個合適的營運基準。我們預計，隨著時間的推移，這條基準線將略有成長，整體上與通貨膨脹和規模成長保持一致，但不包括股票選擇權補償。

Now let me spend a moment on refinancing and capital structure. We recently refinanced and upsized our 2028 $750 million senior notes with $1 billion of new notes due in 2032 and 2034. This refinancing occurred following the announcement of the Vantage acquisition and provides an important external validation of our capital structure and strategy.

現在讓我花點時間談談再融資和資本結構。我們最近對 2028 年到期的 7.5 億美元高級票據進行了再融資和擴充，新增了 10 億美元的票據，分別於 2032 年和 2034 年到期。此次再融資發生在宣布收購 Vantage 之後，為我們的資本結構和策略提供了重要的外部驗證。

Both branches achieved the tightest credit spreads in the company's history. 191 basis points for the 6.25-year tranche and 198 basis points for the eight-year tranche, significantly tighter than the prior best spread of 295 basis points achieved in 2017. Both tranches traded at or slightly above par following issuance and continue to trade at or on par with active secondary participation, reflecting balanced execution and constructive market reception.

這兩個分支機構都實現了公司歷史上最低的信貸利差。 6.25 年期公債的利差為 191 個基點，8 年期公債的利差為 198 個基點，遠低於 2017 年創下的 295 個基點的先前最佳利差。兩批債券發行後均以面額或略高於面額的價格交易，並在活躍的二級市場參與下繼續以面值或平價交易，反映出均衡的執行和積極的市場反響。

We also received a modest upgrade from S&P, reinforcing third-party recognition of our balance sheet strength even as we expand the company's platform. With respect to the Vantage acquisition specifically, we approached the financing conservatively. We modeled cash flows under a range of downside scenarios to ensure that the transaction would not impair our ability to finance or the flexibility of our real estate operations.

我們也獲得了標普的適度評級上調，這進一步鞏固了第三方對我們資產負債表實力的認可，即便我們正在擴大公司的平台。就 Vantage 的收購而言，我們在融資方面採取了保守的做法。我們對一系列不利情境下的現金流進行了建模，以確保交易不會損害我們的融資能力或房地產營運的靈活性。

The additional Pershing preferred investment of up to $1 billion carries a 0% coupon and represents permanent capital with no fixed cash cost and provides HHH the optionality to redeem when liquidity and capital allocation priorities make it appropriate. It adds meaningful equity support to the balance sheet without increasing fixed cash obligations. We believe this structure enhances flexibility and positions the company to grow while maintaining prudent leverage parameters.

額外授予的至多 10 億美元的 Pershing 優先投資享有 0% 的票息，代表永久資本，沒有固定現金成本，並賦予 HHH 在流動性和資本配置優先事項允許時贖回的選擇權。它為資產負債表提供了有意義的權益支持，而不會增加固定現金負債。我們相信這種結構能夠增強靈活性，使公司在保持審慎槓桿參數的同時實現成長。

And speaking of leverage, let's spend a moment on our leverage philosophy. We do not manage the business to a fixed net debt-to-EBITDA target, given the lumpiness of real estate earnings, that metric cab be misleading. Instead, we financed each segment based on asset characteristics while maintaining meaningful liquidity to complete projects and withstand severe downturn scenarios.

說到槓桿，我們不妨花點時間談談我們的槓桿理念。鑑於房地產收益的波動性，我們不以固定的淨債務與 EBITDA 比率為目標來管理業務，因為該指標可能會產生誤導。相反，我們根據資產特性為每個業務板塊提供融資，同時保持足夠的流動性以完成專案並抵禦嚴重的經濟衰退。

Operating assets typically carry 60% to 65% loan-to-value property-level debt balance with a meaningful pool of unencumbered assets. MPC land remains unencumbered, except for short-term reimbursable infrastructure facilities. Condominium projects utilized approximately 60% nonrecourse loan to cost financing and have substantially result significantly reducing maturity of risk. We believe that our pro forma leverage following Vantage will be supported by incremental earnings capacity, enhanced diversification, and asset backing.

營運資產通常有 60% 至 65% 的貸款價值比（即房產層面的債務餘額），同時擁有相當數量的未抵押資產。除了短期可償還的基礎設施建設外，MPC 的土地仍然沒有其他負擔。公寓專案利用了約 60% 的無追索權貸款融資，從而大幅降低了到期風險。我們相信，Vantage 收購後，我們的備考槓桿率將獲得新增獲利能力、增強多元化和資產支持的支持。

As operating assets grow and recurring NOI increases, leverage may rise modestly in parallel with asset value and cash flow, not through incremental development risk. Across all segments, our objective remains a conservative flexible balance sheet, supporting long-term value creation.

隨著營運資產的成長和經常性淨營業收入的增加，槓桿率可能會隨著資產價值和現金流的增加而略有上升，而不是透過增加開發風險來實現的。在所有業務領域，我們的目標仍然是保持穩健且靈活的資產負債表，以支持長期價值創造。

We are now ready to take questions. Operator, please open the line.

現在我們可以開始回答問題了。接線員，請接通線路。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

And to be clear, we will take questions both from analysts and individual investors. So it's an open Q&A.

需要明確的是，我們將接受分析師和個人投資者的提問。所以這是一個開放式的問答環節。

John Kim, BMO Capital Markets.

John Kim，BMO資本市場。

I wanted to ask on the kind of margin for Park Ward Village related to infrastructure work, was that unexpected those costs? And maybe if you could talk about cost pressures overall development. I think you mentioned mid-20s margins on the remaining towers versus I think it's a little bit lower than what you achieved at Victoria Place.

我想問一下，帕克沃德村的基礎建設費用是否在預期之內？或許您還能談談整體發展過程中所面臨的成本壓力。我認為你提到剩餘塔樓的利潤率在 20% 左右，而維多利亞廣場的利潤率則略低一些。

Thanks, John. I appreciate the question. And it's one that we're focused on closely, obviously. The infrastructure costs that are going into Ward Village, including the upgrade of water sewer and electric that Carlos mentioned in his prepared remarks, we're all anticipated. Given the location of Park Ward Village and the size of Park Ward Village, it has a slightly disproportionate share allocated to it, but that will benefit future towers as they'll have a smaller amount allocated to it. And this is one of those rare towers where the GAAP margin that Carlos provide guidance on and the cash margin are slightly disconnected as a result.

謝謝你，約翰。感謝您的提問。很顯然，這是我們重點關注的問題之一。卡洛斯在事先準備好的發言稿中提到的沃德村基礎設施建設成本，包括水、污水和電力升級，我們都在預料之中。鑑於 Park Ward Village 的地理位置和規模，分配給它的份額略微不成比例，但這將有利於未來的塔樓，因為它們分配到的份額將更少。而這正是少數幾座塔樓之一，卡洛斯提供的 GAAP 利潤率指引與現金利潤率因此略有脫節。

A couple of other things are impacting the margin at Park Ward Village. One, it's the second-row tower. So it clearly shouldn't have the same margins as Victoria Place, which was a front row tower. And two, it has a slightly greater amount of retail than most of the towers that we've built in the past. That retail square footage, obviously, we don't sell. So the cost to build it is still there and the revenue associated with it is future NOI, not sale price per square foot.

還有一些其他因素影響帕克沃德村的利潤率。第一，它是第二排塔樓。所以它顯然不應該和維多利亞廣場一樣有相同的邊距，維多利亞廣場是前排的摩天大樓。其次，它的零售面積比我們過去建造的大多數建築物都要大一些。很顯然，我們不賣那些零售面積。因此，建造成本仍然存在，而與之相關的收入是未來的淨營業收入，而不是每平方英尺的售價。

If you compare another comparable tower, a second row tower like Anaha, which we sold about $1,100 a foot at a 25% margin versus the Park Ward Village at $1,500 a foot and a 17% to 19% margin, that price per foot profitability is almost on top of each other and does not take into account the incremental NOI will generate from 10,000 additional feet of retail space.

如果將另一座類似的塔樓，例如 Anaha，作為第二排塔樓，我們以每平方英尺約 1100 美元的價格售出，利潤率為 25%，而 Park Ward Village 的售價為每平方英尺 1500 美元，利潤率為 17% 至 19%，那麼每平方英尺的利潤率幾乎相差無幾，而且還沒有考慮到新增 1000 平方英尺營業空間所帶來淨收入的增量淨收入。

Okay. And my second question, maybe for Bill, you talked about how to value Howard Hughes going forward. It sounds like from your commentary, you plan to maintain ownership of the commercial real estate portfolio. But given this is a high margin, but probably a lower return on invested capital business would you consider changing your strategy and monetizing the commercial portfolio? And maybe if you can comment on the 30 acres sold in your commercial portfolio -- on commercial land in the Woodlands?

好的。我的第二個問題，也許是問比爾的，你談到如何評估霍華休斯未來的價值。從你的評論來看，你似乎打算繼續擁有這處商業房地產組合。但鑑於該業務利潤率很高，但投資報酬率可能較低，您是否會考慮改變策略，將商業投資組合貨幣化？或許您能就您商業地產組合中出售的位於伍德蘭茲的 30 英畝商業用地發表一下看法？

So we take a very long-term view with respect to commercial real estate holdings in our kind of core MPCs. We think that one of the things that's made the kept occupancy high and rental growth growing during very challenging periods like COVID and other sort of economic downturns is the fact that we don't have the same kind of competitive dynamics that you would if you had multiple kind of owners of your assets.

因此，對於我們這類核心MPC的商業房地產持有，我們採取的是非常長遠的眼光。我們認為，在像新冠疫情和其他經濟衰退等極具挑戰性的時期，入住率依然居高不下，租金持續增長的原因之一是，我們不像擁有多種資產所有者那樣面臨激烈的競爭。

Over time, we've considered, do we bring in a partner, sell a 49% interest in certain assets. That is, of course, something we could always consider in the future, but we do think there's a lot of value taking the long-term view in controlling our destiny and really limiting the competition that would be afforded by having someone be a major owner of commercial assets within our communities.

隨著時間的推移，我們一直在考慮，是否要引入合作夥伴，出售某些資產的 49% 股份。當然，這或許是我們未來可以考慮的事情，但我們確實認為，從長遠角度來掌控我們的命運，並真正限制那些因有人成為我們社區內商業資產的主要所有者而帶來的競爭，是非常有價值的。

And then with respect to the 30 acres, I mean David could speak to it, but we generally don't like selling commercial land ever. But there are times when there's, for example, a user or an anchor that we think is going to bring a lot of value to the surrounding property and their sort of mandate is they have to be an owner because they're planning to be there forever, and we -- we struggle with that, but we ultimately have made some sales. Those were not driven by return on capital decisions, they were driven by the fact that the user insisted, if they're going to move the Chevron headquarters, for example, to our part of town, they want to own the asset outright as opposed to have a lease.

至於那 30 英畝地，我的意思是，大衛可以談談這件事，但我們通常都不喜歡出售商業用地。但有時，例如，我們會遇到一些用戶或核心用戶，我們認為他們會為周圍的房產帶來很大的價值，而他們的要求是他們必須成為業主，因為他們計劃永遠留在這裡，我們——我們在這方面很掙扎，但最終我們還是達成了一些交易。這些決策並非出於資本回報的考慮，而是因為用戶堅持認為，如果他們要將雪佛龍總部遷至我們所在的地區，他們希望完全擁有該資產，而不是租賃。

David, anything further there?

大衛，還有其他情況嗎？

Yes. The only thing I would add is that 30 acres that were sold this year, this quarter were really on the edges of the Woodlands. It wasn't the commercial land that we own in the city center. We consider that land incredibly valuable. Some of this out on the periphery that was sold to educational and healthcare users are adding to the community, but it was not what we would consider some of our highest-value commercial land for future development that will create outsized risk-adjusted returns and recurring NOI.

是的。我唯一要補充的是，今年本季售出的 30 英畝土地實際上位於伍德蘭茲的邊緣地帶。那不是我們在市中心擁有的商業用地。我們認為這塊土地極為寶貴。其中一些位於郊區的土地出售給了教育和醫療保健用戶，為社區做出了貢獻，但這些土地並不是我們認為最有價值的商業用地，無法用於未來的開發，也無法創造超大的風險調整後收益和經常性淨營業收入。

Alexander Goldfarb, Piper Sandler.

Alexander Goldfarb，Piper Sandler。

Bill, just following up on Vantage, had a chance to touch base with our insurance analyst and just going over the combined ratios, real estate (inaudible) learns about property and casualty. And the combined ratio at Vantage seems a bit higher than where the peer average would be.

Bill 跟進了 Vantage 的情況，有機會和我們的保險分析師聯繫，並一起查看了綜合比率，房地產（聽不清楚）了解了財產和意外傷害保險。Vantage 的綜合比率似乎略高於同業平均值。

And I believe last time on the call, you spoke about the profitability improvement. So as we look to that platform in Vantage's overall profitability, what's the sort of time line that you would think we would see that? Is that a year? Is that five years? Is that two years? Like how should we think about profitability improvement at Vantage once you guys consummate the deal?

我相信上次電話會議上，您談到了盈利能力的提高。因此，當我們從 Vantage 的整體獲利能力角度來看待這個平台時，您認為我們大概會在哪個時間段看到這種情況？那算一年嗎？那是五年嗎？那是兩年嗎？例如，一旦你們完成交易，我們該如何看待Vantage的獲利能力提升問題？

Sure. So I would start with by saying that Vantage is a brand-new insurer, and they're really in the process of getting to scale. They built the infrastructure for a much larger company. And as they grow their insurance business, they can sort of amortize those costs over a bigger base of revenues. 2026 is really the first starting to be more meaningfully profitable year for the company. And I think you should continue to see the benefits of just the scale economies, if you will, or the operating leverage inherent to growth.

當然。首先我想說的是，Vantage 是一家全新的保險公司，他們目前正處於擴大規模的過程中。他們為一家規模更大的公司搭建了基礎設施。隨著保險業務的成長，他們可以將這些成本分攤到更大的收入基數上。 2026年才是該公司真正開始實現顯著獲利的一年。我認為你應該繼續看到規模經濟帶來的好處，或者說，看到成長固有的營運槓桿作用帶來的好處。

I think on top of that, beginning later this year, we're going to be making changes to the way the portfolio is being managed. And if we do a good job, as I expect we will, I expect we will be able to earn higher returns on assets, which will lead to an overall kind of more profitable insurer. But it's not Vantage is sort of going according to their original business plan, I would say. And the owners took a long-term view. They made the necessary investments in infrastructure people and otherwise for this to be a very successful multi-line specialty insurer. And as they get to scale, they'll naturally become more profitable.

我認為除此之外，從今年稍後開始，我們將對投資組合的管理方式進行一些改變。如果我們能做好，正如我預期的那樣，我相信我們將能夠獲得更高的資產回報率，這將使保險公司整體上更加盈利。但我覺得，Vantage 的發展基本上還是按照他們最初的商業計劃進行的。業主們著眼於長遠發展。為了成為一家非常成功的多險種專業保險公司，他們在基礎建設、人員等方面進行了必要的投資。隨著規模擴大，它們自然會變得更有利可圖。

Yes. And I would just two quick things to that. First of all, when you -- we put out some materials on this over sort of the fall and winter last year. But I would say well-run insurance companies have taken some of the lines Vantage participates and often have combined ratios that are in the low 90s. And the way we like to look at it is you can disaggregate the combined ratio into two key components. One would be your loss ratio, which is just literally what is the profitability or the losses that you have on the insurance itself and then one is your SG&A ratio.

是的。我還有兩點要補充。首先，我們在去年秋冬季發布了一些關於這方面的資料。但我認為，一些運作良好的保險公司承保了 Vantage 參與的部分險種，其綜合賠付率通常在 90% 左右。我們喜歡這樣看待這個問題：你可以將綜合比率分解為兩個關鍵組成部分。一個是賠付率，它其實就是保險本身的獲利能力或損失情況；另一個是銷售、一般及行政費用率。

And typically, and ensure that would be operating at sort of this lower 90s combined ratio would have a loss ratio on the insurance, it's something in the low 60s. And then they would typically have an SG&A ratio around 30%, maybe plus or minus a few points. And the way we think about it is Vantage is very well on the path historically already to having a loss ratio that's consistent with what you would want to see for a well-run insurer. It's really that the SG&A has been high because they had made a lot of investments to get the platform up to scale before the business had actually achieved the scale. So they were billing ahead for the future.

通常情況下，為了確保營運成本在 90% 左右（綜合比率較低），保險賠付率會在 60% 左右。然後他們的銷售、一般及行政費用比率通常在 30% 左右，可能會有幾個百分點的上下浮動。我們認為，Vantage 從歷史數據來看，其賠付率已經非常接近一家運作良好的保險公司應有的水準。真正的原因是，銷售、一般及行政費用之所以居高不下，是因為在業務實際達到規模之前，他們已經投入大量資金來擴大平台規模。所以他們是在為未來預先收費。

They have really grown the business now to a level at which we believe that they are going to be benefiting from all of the investments that they have made previously. And therefore, going forward, we think they're really going to be able to get that SG&A ratio down to something that we think would be more fitting for a company of its size and scale going forward. And that's one of the things we're excited about.

他們現在已經將業務發展到了一定規模，我們相信他們將從之前的所有投資中受益。因此，展望未來，我們認為他們真的能夠將銷售、一般及行政費用率降低到我們認為更適合其規模的公司水準的程度​​。這也是我們感到興奮的原因之一。

So we like the fact that they have a good history of having what we think is a very strong loss ratio given their lines of business and that where we think the SG&A ratio will have some embedded operating leverage, if you will, because they've really built this business going forward. So I would say we feel very good about the path from here to getting Vantage in line with where we think a lot of well-run insurers will be just naturally based upon the business plan that the company has implemented and already achieved.

因此，我們喜歡他們過往良好的業績記錄，我們認為考慮到他們的業務範圍，他們的賠付率非常穩健。而且我們認為他們的銷售、一般及行政費用率會有一定的經營槓桿效應，因為他們確實為未來的業務發展做出了巨大貢獻。因此，我認為我們對 Vantage 從現在開始的發展道路充滿信心，相信憑藉公司已經實施並取得的商業計劃，Vantage 將自然而然地達到許多運營良好的保險公司應有的水平。

The second thing I would point out, though, is Vantage actually is currently profitable, both in terms of the combined ratio that they're achieving today and what we think they will going forward. And then as Bill mentioned, we think we'll further benefit sort of the growth in net income or book value based upon shifting the portfolio to what we think will be a higher return strategy going forward as well.

不過，我要指出的第二點是，Vantage 目前實際上是盈利的，無論從他們現在的綜合比率來看，還是從我們認為他們未來將達到的水平來看，都是如此。正如比爾所提到的那樣，我們認為，透過將投資組合轉向我們認為未來回報更高的策略，我們將進一步受益於淨收入或帳面價值的成長。

Okay. And then second question is housing affordability is clearly a big topic today. There's the whole SFR -- well, I don't want to say debate, but executive order out there. But there's also a build to rent seems to be something that is looked favorably on -- you guys have created a lot of value in terms of what people see in terms of living at your MPCs.

好的。第二個問題是，住房負擔能力顯然是當今一個熱門話題。整個 SFR——好吧，我不想說是辯論，而是行政命令——都擺在那裡。但似乎也有人對「建造出租」這種模式表示讚賞——你們在人們眼中，在你們的MPC（多用途公寓）中生活方面，創造了很大的價值。

But is there more opportunity that you guys can do on the affordability front with build to rent or other initiatives to sort of broaden out the number of people who can buy homes or your view is, hey, when you look at the mix that your MPCs provide, you sort of are hitting all the different price points and all the different income levels that would be appropriate for residential within your submarkets?

但是，在住房可負擔性方面，你們是否還有更多機會，例如建造出租房或其他舉措，以擴大購房人群的範圍？或者你們的觀點是，嘿，看看你們的MPC提供的組合，你們已經涵蓋了所有不同的價格點和所有適合你們子市場住宅的不同收入水平？

Great question, Alex. Thanks. I would tell you that we focus intently across all of our MPCs. Because as you know, when we sell land to homebuilders, we're dictating the size of the homes, the setback of the homes, the design of the homes and the implication is really the price of the homes. So as we're selling dirt to homebuilders, we're trying to hit the broadest range of home prices out there so that we can attract the widest swath of buyers with the most diverse backgrounds and incomes. Single-family for rent has been a modest part of our portfolio. We've done one small community in Bridgeland, and it was really to fit a need that we saw within that community.

問得好，Alex。謝謝。我想告訴大家，我們非常重視所有MPC（多處理器控制）。因為如您所知，當我們把土地賣給房屋建築商時，我們決定了房屋的面積、房屋的退讓距離、房屋的設計，而這實際上決定了房屋的價格。因此，當我們向房屋建築商出售土地時，我們努力涵蓋最廣泛的房價範圍，以便吸引背景和收入各異的廣大購屋者。單戶住宅出租在我們投資組合中所佔比例不大。我們在布里奇蘭做了一個小社區項目，這真的是為了滿足我們看到的社區的一個需求。

And I think that our traditional kind of more dense multifamily product, it's part of that need as well. And as you know, we're always developing to meet the deepest pockets of demand within our communities. So I would tell you that we work hard to try to address the affordability to try to hit price points at all places within the spectrum to attract buyers. And I think SFR is a strategy. I think it's a very small one for us as there's a lot of existing inventory in communities like Summerlin, like Bridgeland, like the Woodlands, where there is kind of that non-institutionally owned but shadow market of homes for rent.

我認為我們傳統的、密度較高的多戶住宅產品，也是這種需求的一部分。如您所知，我們一直在不斷發展，以滿足我們社區中最迫切的需求。因此，我想告訴大家，我們努力解決價格負擔問題，力求涵蓋價格區間內的各個價位，以吸引買家。我認為SFR是一種策略。我認為這對我們來說影響很小，因為像薩默林、布里奇蘭、伍德蘭茲這樣的社區有很多現有的房源，那裡存在著一種非機構所有但非正式的房屋租賃市場。

[Eli Deshev], Individual Investor.

[Eli Deshev]，個人投資者。

As the company moves towards a diversified holding company model, how are you thinking about priorities for extra cash acquisitions, paying down debt or buying back shares?

隨著公司向多元化控股公司模式轉型，您認為額外現金用於收購、償還債務還是回購股票的優先事項是什麼？

Sure. So we think our first priority for excess cash that's generated. I define excess cash as cash not needed to be reinvested in our communities at Howard Hughes. We expect over the next several years to generate a fair amount of excess cash in that number to grow materially over time. But the first priority is when we close the Vantage transaction, Howard Hughes will own a majority economically of the company will own 100% of it legally. But as Pershing Square is providing a substantial portion of basically bridge equity to enable the transaction, I think the first priority should be for Howard Hughes to own 100% of the insurer. So depending upon that, how much of the preferred is outstanding as much as $1 billion, that will be the first use of excess cash.

當然。所以我們認為，首要任務是利用產生的盈餘現金。在霍華休斯，我將多餘的現金定義為不需要再投資我們社區的現金。我們預計在未來幾年內將產生相當可觀的盈餘現金，而且隨著時間的推移，這一數字還將大幅增長。但首要任務是，當我們完成 Vantage 交易時，霍華休斯將在經濟上擁有該公司的大部分股份，並在法律上擁有該公司 100% 的股份。但由於潘興廣場提供了相當大比例的過渡性股權以促成交易，我認為首要任務應該是讓霍華德休斯擁有這家保險公司 100% 的股份。因此，根據目前流通在外的優先股金額（最高可達 10 億美元），這將是剩餘現金的首要用途。

Once the insurer is 100% owned by Howard Hughes, then incremental excess cash would be used principally to make other operating investments in other operating companies. potentially, we could put more capital into the insurer, but we could also invest in other businesses.

一旦保險公司完全由霍華德休斯擁有，那麼新增的盈餘現金將主要用於對其他營運公司進行其他營運投資。理論上，我們可以向這家保險公司投入更多資金，但也可以投資其他業務。

And I am not showing any further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the call back over to Bill Ackman for any further remarks.

目前我不再提出其他問題。我想把電話轉回給比爾·阿克曼，讓他再補充一些內容。

Sure. So look, our original thesis on helping transform Howard Hughes into a diversified holding company, it was based on the fact that while management has done an excellent job with the company, we've really built a focused, very successful MPC condominium business in the company. It's not gotten the recognition. We argue it's deserved as a public company. And a big part of that in our view was that the market assigns sort of too high a cost of capital to kind of the core real estate development and land ownership business.

當然。所以你看，我們最初關於幫助霍華休斯轉型為多元化控股公司的論點，是基於這樣一個事實：雖然管理層對公司的工作非常出色，但我們確實在公司內部建立了一個專注且非常成功的MPC公寓業務。它沒有得到應有的認可。我們認為作為一家上市公司，它理應如此。我們認為，其中一個重要原因是市場對核心房地產開發和土地所有權業務的資本成本設定過高。

So I'm pleased in some sense that in a relatively short period of time, about seven or eight months, I think there's pretty good evidence that our cost of capital is coming down. A 120 basis point tighter execution on a bond issue is a very good. That's a massive -- it's about 40% reduction in our cost of debt capital on a spread basis. And our stock price is up about 20% or so from the time that the transaction was announced. I still think the stock is super cheap. We'll have to -- we've got more progress to make. I think we need to do a better job helping investors understand the business.

從某種意義上說，我很高興，在相對較短的時間內，大約七到八個月的時間裡，我認為有相當充分的證據表明我們的資金成本正在下降。債券發行執行力道收緊 120 個基點是非常好的。這是一個巨大的變化——以利差計算，我們的債務資本成本降低了約 40%。自交易宣布以來，我們的股價上漲了約 20%。我仍然認為這支股票超級便宜。我們必須這樣做——我們還有更多工作要做。我認為我們需要更好地幫助投資者了解公司業務。

There continues to be some turnover in the shareholder base from, I would say, more traditional pure-play real estate investors to investors that are open to investing in a diversified holding company. And yes, while we've entered into a transaction to core Vantage, we haven't closed, that's kind of upcoming. But I'm very pleased with the progress we've made over the past seven, eight months and the company itself, the real estate operation is really running on all cylinders.

股東基礎持續發生一些變化，從較傳統的純粹房地產投資者轉變為願意投資多元化控股公司的投資者。是的，雖然我們已經與Vantage核心部門達成了交易，但還沒有完成，這還需要一段時間。但我對我們在過去七、八個月的進展非常滿意，公司本身，尤其是房地產業務，現在運作得非常順暢。

And we're in a world where I would say, unfortunately, some of the more blue states and particularly one that city I'm living in today is operating in a way to actually encourage people to move to places like Texas and Arizona and Las Vegas and Hawaii. And I guess I'm hedged because I live in New York, but we benefit as people leave the city and move to -- move to communities like the ones that are managed by Howard Hughes.

而我們所處的世界，不幸的是，一些較保守的州，尤其是我今天居住的這座城市，其運作方式實際上是在鼓勵人們搬到德克薩斯州、亞利桑那州、拉斯維加斯和夏威夷等地。我想我之所以能置身事外，是因為我住在紐約，但隨著人們離開這座城市，搬到像霍華休斯管理的那種社區，我們都會受益。

But I appreciate your participation on the call and look forward to being back to you in a few months. Thanks so much.

但我很感謝您參與這次電話會議，期待幾個月後再次與您聯繫。非常感謝。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's presentation. We thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect, and have a wonderful day.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，今天的演講到此結束。感謝您的參與。現在您可以斷開連接了，祝您度過美好的一天。