Hess Midstream LP (HESM) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the second quarter 2026 Hess Midstream conference Call. My name is Kevin, and I'll be your operator for today. (Operator Instructions)

各位女士、先生，大家好，歡迎參加 Hess Midstream 2026 年第二季電話會議。我是 Kevin，今天將擔任會議接線員。（接線員指示）

Please be advised today's conference is being recorded for replay purposes. I would now like to turn the conference over to Jennifer Gordon, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please proceed.

請注意，今天的電話會議將錄音以供回放。我現在想把會議交給投資人關係副總裁 Jennifer Gordon。請開始。

Thank you, Kevin. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for participating in our second quarter earnings conference call. Our earnings release was issued this morning and appears on our website, www.hessmidstream.com.

謝謝你，Kevin。各位早安，感謝大家參加我們的第二季財報電話會議。我們的財報新聞稿已於今天早上發布，並刊登於我們的網站 www.hessmidstream.com。

Today's conference call contains projections and other forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from those expressed or implied in such statements. These risks include those set forth in the Risk Factors section of Hess Midstream's filings with the SEC.

今天的電話會議包含依據聯邦證券法所定義之預測及其他前瞻性陳述。這些陳述受已知及未知風險與不確定性影響，可能導致實際結果與該等陳述所明示或暗示者有所差異。這些風險包括 Hess Midstream 向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交文件中「風險因素」章節所列之風險。

Also on today's conference call, we may discuss certain GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of the differences between these non-GAAP financial measures and the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found in the earnings release.

此外，在今天的電話會議中，我們可能會討論某些 GAAP 財務衡量指標。這些非 GAAP 財務衡量指標與最直接可比之 GAAP 財務衡量指標之差異調節表，可於財報新聞稿中查閱。

With me today are Jonathan Stein, Chief Executive Officer; and Mike Chadwick, Chief Financial Officer. I'll now turn the call over to Jonathan Stein.

今天與我一同出席的有執行長 Jonathan Stein，以及財務長 Mike Chadwick。我現在把電話交給 Jonathan Stein。

Thanks, Jennifer. Welcome, everyone, to our second quarter 2026 earnings call. Today, I will discuss our second quarter performance and outlook for the remainder of the year, and then I'll hand the call over to Mike to review our financials. In the second quarter, we continued to execute our operational priorities and deliver our financial strategies. We completed planned maintenance at TGP on time and under budget.

謝謝你，Jennifer。各位好，歡迎參加我們 2026 年第二季財報電話會議。今天我將說明第二季表現以及今年剩餘期間的展望，接著把電話交給 Mike 回顧財務狀況。第二季我們持續執行營運優先事項並落實財務策略。我們按期且在預算內完成了 TGP 的計畫性維護。

Our plans for the third quarter includes maintenance at LM4 and completing maintenance work that has now shifted to the second half of the year. Complementing our operational execution, we continue to find efficiencies across our assets on both synergies and improved performance.

我們第三季的計畫包括對 LM4 進行維護，並完成目前已移至下半年進行的維護工作。配合營運執行，我們也持續在資產組合中尋求效率提升，包含協同效益與績效改善。

During the quarter, we also delivered on our financial strategy by strengthening our balance sheet and increasing our distribution in line with our continued prioritization of shareholder returns. Hess Midstream remains a leader in shareholder returns, and we reiterate our 2026 adjusted free cash flow guidance of $910 million to $960 million or a 20% increase year-over-year at the midpoint.

本季我們也透過強化資產負債表並提高配息，落實財務策略，並持續優先重視股東報酬。Hess Midstream 仍是股東報酬的領先者；我們重申 2026 年調整後自由現金流指引為 9.10 億至 9.60 億美元，以中位數計算年增 20%。

Turning to our results. During the quarter, throughput volumes averaged 433 million cubic feet per day for gas processing, 117,000 barrels of oil per day for crude terminaling and 121,000 barrels of water per day for water gathering. Compared to the first quarter, throughput volumes were flat to lower on oil, but higher in gas as the maintenance of TGP was offset by the capture of additional third-party volume. Consistent with our annual guidance, we continue to expect volumes to grow in the second half of the year.

接著談我們的營運成果。本季處理量平均為：天然氣處理 4.33 億立方英尺/日、原油終端處理 11.7 萬桶/日、集輸水量 12.1 萬桶/日。與第一季相比，原油處理量持平至略降，但天然氣量增加，因 TGP 維護的影響被額外取得的第三方量所抵銷。依照我們的年度指引，我們仍預期下半年量能將成長。

Turning to Hess Midstream's capital program. In the second quarter, capital expenditures were $31 million as we continue to execute our program, including completion of greenfield high-pressure gathering pipeline infrastructure. We expect our capital spend to be higher in the third quarter, in line with planned activity. In summary, we remain focused on executing safe and reliable operations while leveraging our historical investment in existing infrastructure to continue generating significant adjusted free cash flow, allowing us to uniquely provide returns to our shareholders through growing distributions and incremental share repurchases while simultaneously continuing to reduce our debt leverage.

接著談 Hess Midstream 的資本計畫。第二季資本支出為 3,100 萬美元，我們持續執行計畫，包括完成綠地（greenfield）高壓集輸管線基礎設施。我們預期第三季資本支出將較高，符合既定活動安排。總結而言，我們仍專注於安全且可靠的營運執行，同時運用過往對既有基礎設施的投資，持續創造可觀的調整後自由現金流，使我們得以透過提高配息與額外股票回購，為股東提供獨特的報酬，同時持續降低負債槓桿。

With that, I'll hand the call over to Mike to review our financial performance and second quarter and guidance.

接下來我把電話交給 Mike，請他回顧我們的財務表現、第二季結果與指引。

Thanks, Jonathan, and good morning, everyone. Today, I will discuss our financial results for the second quarter of 2026 and provide an update on our third quarter financial guidance and outlook for 2026.

謝謝你，Jonathan，各位早安。今天我將說明 2026 年第二季的財務結果，並更新我們 2026 年第三季的財務指引以及 2026 年的展望。

Turning to our results. For the second quarter of 2026, net income was $174 million, compared to approximately $158 million in the first quarter. Adjusted EBITDA for the second quarter of 2026 was $314 million compared with $300 million in the first quarter. The increase was primarily due to lower operating expenses with some activity shifting into the second half of the year as well as G&A savings from lower allocations during the quarter.

接著看我們的結果。2026 年第二季淨利為 1.74 億美元，相較第一季約 1.58 億美元。2026 年第二季調整後 EBITDA 為 3.14 億美元，相較第一季 3.00 億美元。增加主要來自營運費用較低，部分活動移至下半年，以及本季因分攤較低而帶來的一般及行政費用（G&A）節省。

Total revenues, excluding pass-through revenues, increased by approximately $10 million, resulting in segment revenue changes as follows; Gathering revenues increased by approximately $7 million, and processing revenues increased by approximately $3 million.

扣除轉嫁收入（pass-through revenues）後的總營收增加約 1,000 萬美元，各事業部營收變動如下：集輸（Gathering）營收增加約 700 萬美元，處理（Processing）營收增加約 300 萬美元。

Total cost and expenses, excluding depreciation and amortization, pass-through costs and net of our proportional share of LM4 earnings decreased by approximately $4 million, primarily due to lower operating expenses with some activity shifting into the second half of the year as well as G&A savings from lower allocations during the quarter, resulting in adjusted EBITDA for the second quarter of 2026 of $314 million.

扣除折舊與攤銷、轉嫁成本（pass-through costs），並在扣除我們按比例認列之 LM4 獲利後的總成本與費用，約減少 400 萬美元，主要因營運費用較低（部分活動移至下半年）以及本季因分攤較低而帶來的 G&A 節省，因此 2026 年第二季調整後 EBITDA 為 3.14 億美元。

Our gross adjusted EBITDA margin for the second quarter of 2026 was maintained at approximately 85%, above our 75% target, highlighting our continued strong operating leverage. Second quarter of 2026 capital expenditures were approximately $31 million, in line with quarterly activity. Net interest, excluding amortization of deferred finance costs, was approximately $51 million, resulting in adjusted free cash flow of approximately $232 million, a decrease of approximately 2% from the first quarter of 2026.

2026 年第二季的毛調整後 EBITDA 利潤率維持在約 85%，高於我們 75% 的目標，凸顯我們持續強勁的營運槓桿。2026 年第二季資本支出約 3,100 萬美元，符合季度活動水準。淨利息（不含遞延融資成本攤銷）約 5,100 萬美元，因此調整後自由現金流約 2.32 億美元，較 2026 年第一季約下降 2%。

We had a drawn balance of $256 million on our revolving credit facility at the end of the second quarter of 2026, a decrease of approximately $87 million from the first quarter of 2026. For the third quarter of 2026, we expect net income to be approximately $165 million to $175 million and adjusted EBITDA to be approximately flat at the midpoint with the second quarter at $310 million to $320 million as expected, higher revenues and volumes are offset by higher OpEx.

截至 2026 年第二季末，我們循環信用額度（revolving credit facility）動用餘額為 2.56 億美元，較 2026 年第一季約減少 8,700 萬美元。對於 2026 年第三季，我們預期淨利約 1.65 億至 1.75 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 於中位數預計與第二季大致持平，約 3.10 億至 3.20 億美元；如預期，較高的營收與量能將被較高的營運費用（OpEx）所抵銷。

We expect adjusted free cash flow in the third quarter of 2026 to decrease relative to the second quarter of 2026 as capital expenditures in the third quarter are projected to be higher than the second quarter, reflecting increased activity. We continue to expect second half volumes to be higher than the first half of the year.

我們預期 2026 年第三季的調整後自由現金流將較第二季下降，因第三季資本支出預估高於第二季，反映活動增加。我們仍預期下半年量能將高於上半年。

For the full year of 2026, we continue to expect net income of between $650 million and $700 million and adjusted EBITDA of between $1.225 billion and $1.275 billion in 2026, approximately flat at the midpoint compared with 2025. As Jonathan mentioned, our cash position is strong and notable among our peer set.

就 2026 年全年而言，我們仍預期淨利介於 6.50 億至 7.00 億美元之間，2026 年調整後 EBITDA 介於 12.25 億至 12.75 億美元之間，以中位數計算相較 2025 年約持平。如 Jonathan 所提，我們的現金部位強勁，且在同業中相當突出。

We expect to generate adjusted free cash flow of between $910 million and $960 million and excess adjusted free cash flow of approximately $280 million after fully funding our targeted 5% annual distribution growth, which we expect to continue to use for incremental shareholder returns and debt repayment. This concludes my remarks. We will be happy to answer any questions.

我們預期可產生 9.10 億至 9.60 億美元的調整後自由現金流；在完全支應我們目標的年度配息成長 5% 後，仍有約 2.80 億美元的超額調整後自由現金流，我們預期將持續用於額外股東報酬與償還債務。以上為我的說明。我們很樂意回答各位的問題。

I will now turn the call over to the operator.

我現在把電話交回接線員。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Jeremy Tonet, JPMorgan.

JPMorgan 的 Jeremy Tonet。

Hey, good morning, guys. It's Vrathan Reddy on for Jeremy. Appreciate the comments in the prepared remarks and the full year guide, but maybe curious if you could talk to some of the puts and takes that could drive the high end versus low end? And then on the cost side, how you see OpEx and maintenance timing throughout the balance of the year? Thank you.

嗨，各位早安。我是代替 Jeremy 的 Vrathan Reddy。感謝在事先準備的講稿以及全年指引中的說明；不過我想請教，能否談談哪些因素可能推動指引落在區間高端或低端？另外在成本面，您如何看待今年剩餘期間的營運費用（OpEx）與維護時點安排？謝謝。

Yes. Thanks for the question. I can take that one. So what it's going to take to get to some of the puts and takes on our EBITDA guidance range. It's going to be pretty much about weather and execution in the second half of the year. So the high end of the range would probably require continued strong execution of our maintenance plan and favorable weather conditions to ensure we have fewer interruptions in our operations.

好的，謝謝你的問題。我可以回答。關於我們 EBITDA 指引區間的上修或下修因素，基本上取決於下半年的天氣與執行狀況。因此，若要達到區間高端，可能需要我們持續強而有力地執行維護計畫，並且天候條件有利，以確保營運中斷較少。

And on the downside, that would be the opposite. If we get interrupted with weather or any of our maintenance costs become higher, that's going to be on the downside. With regards to phasing, as you heard in our prepared remarks, Jonathan and I both mentioned that we've got a bit of a phasing shift in OpEx, some of the maintenance programs that we were expecting to carry out in Q2 shifted to later in the year. and we expect to pick that up in Q3.

而在下行方面則相反。如果天候造成中斷，或任何維護成本變得更高，就會偏向下行。至於費用的分期（phasing），如同你在我們事先準備的講稿中所聽到的，Jonathan 和我都提到 OpEx 的分期有些移轉；我們原本預期在第二季執行的部分維護計畫已移到今年稍晚，我們預期第三季會把這部分補回來。

Typically, when we get to Q4, it's a bit of a lower phasing on OpEx as weather takes an impact, but we also expect to see possibly some volatility on the actualization of G&A allocations from the sponsor typically around Q4 as well. And that's the reason why we've kept our EBITDA guidance in the same range as the previous quarter. We've kept it flat for the full year.

通常到了第四季，因天候影響，OpEx 的分期會相對較低；但我們也預期，贊助方（sponsor）在第四季左右的一般及行政費用（G&A）分攤實際化（actualization）可能出現一些波動。這也是我們將 EBITDA 指引維持在與前一季相同區間的原因；我們把全年維持在持平。

Got it. Thank you. And then could you maybe just dive a little bit deeper on the second half volume growth drivers? I understand is an absence of kind of weather and maintenance-related headwinds, but curious if there's anything else specifically given a little bit of a stronger third-party volumes that we've seen on gas in particular?

了解。謝謝。接著能否請你再更深入說明一下下半年量增的驅動因素？我理解主要是少了天候與維修相關的逆風，但也想知道是否還有其他更具體的因素，尤其是考量到我們看到天然氣這邊第三方量似乎更強一些？

It's Jonathan. Yes, I think in terms of the phasing of volume, as we've -- we had always said that we expected the second half of the year to be higher. Some of that is just, as Chevron sets up its own drilling program and optimize, you can have normal phasing in terms of you have wells online. Addition, of course, Chevron has talked about on the laterals, increased productivity. So all of that will continue to come through in the second half of the year. But really, the volume growth that we had was really planned and just part of normal to phasing.

我是 Jonathan。是的，我想就量的時序分布而言，正如我們一直說的，我們預期下半年會更高。其中一部分只是因為 Chevron 在安排自身的鑽井計畫並進行最佳化時，會出現正常的時序變化，也就是會有井陸續上線。此外，當然 Chevron 也談到延伸段（laterals）帶來的生產力提升。因此，這些都會在下半年持續反映出來。但實際上，我們看到的量增是原本就規劃好的，屬於正常的時序分布。

As Mike said, the way you can kind of think about the year is really continued volume growth quarter-on-quarter from this point forward, at least 5% growth into the second half of the year. That will drive revenues quarter-on-quarter up into the third quarter. As Mike said, OpEx is going to be, they expect to kind of basically increase as we defer from maintenance, things like the end of the third quarter.

如同 Mike 所說，你可以把今年理解為：從現在開始每一季都會持續季對季的量增，至少到下半年會有 5% 的成長。這會推動營收季對季成長直到第三季。也如 Mike 所說，營運費用（OpEx）將會——他們預期——因為我們把維修延後，像是第三季末那類事項，OpEx 基本上會增加。

So that gets into kind of EBITDA flat with higher revenues and higher OpEx. And then in the fourth quarter, that we'll have higher revenue and expect OpEx to be at least flat or lower, so driving higher EBITDA into the fourth quarter and then keeping our full year guidance. So just really phasing on the volume side, nothing -- of course, we had good third-party volumes this quarter on gas side, opportunities like that continue to exist. So that would all be upside.

因此在營收更高、OpEx 也更高的情況下，EBITDA 大致持平。然後到第四季，我們會有更高的營收，且預期 OpEx 至少持平或更低，因而推動第四季 EBITDA 更高，同時維持我們全年指引。所以主要就是量的時序分布，沒有——當然，本季在天然氣端我們有不錯的第三方量，這類機會仍然存在，因此那會是額外上行空間。

Got it. Thank you.

了解。謝謝。

John Mackay, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 John Mackay。

Hey, Tim. Thank you for the time. Jonathan, you touched on this a little bit, but Chevron also made a point of bringing it up on their call just in terms of the efficiency gains they are seeing in the basin. Anything you can kind of walk us through what you're seeing on the ground and to the extent that you're starting to see kind of initial results maybe any commentary you can share about how to frame up the production growth outlook from here?

嗨，Tim。謝謝你撥冗。Jonathan，你剛剛稍微提到一點，但 Chevron 也在他們的電話會議中特別提到他們在盆地看到的效率提升。你能否帶我們更具體了解一下你們在現場看到的情況？以及如果你們開始看到一些初步成果，是否能分享任何評論，幫助我們從現在起如何看待產量成長的展望？

Sure. Yes. Look, I think anything on production growth is really more a question for Chevron. What I can say from the midstream side, and certainly, those efficiencies are helping in terms of certainly maintaining production. Chevron did mention this even at a lower rig count table to maintain production. That volume kind of expectation of approximately 200,000 barrel of oil equivalent per day that underpins our guidance going forward. We've talked about in the past as they drill a lot our laterals that obviously you have less wells to be able to achieve similar volumes. And so that helps us in terms of our CapEx.

當然。是的。你看，我認為任何關於產量成長的問題，其實更應該問 Chevron。就中游端而言，我能說的是，這些效率提升確實有助於維持產量。Chevron 也提到，即使在較低的鑽機數下也能維持產量。大約每日 20 萬桶油當量的量的預期，是支撐我們未來指引的基礎。我們過去也談過，當他們鑽更多延伸段（laterals）時，顯然你可以用更少的井達到相近的量，因此這在我們的資本支出（CapEx）方面是有幫助的。

And as we've talked about -- we're highly capital efficient, leveraging our historical investment and now even more capital efficiency to be able to get the same volume throughput, if you will. And then as we said, looking forward, again, we're not expecting necessarily production growth per se, consistent with what Chevron has talked about on their side, really expecting, as we talked about our guidance, a lot of that is inflation escalation as you go forward.

而且如我們所說——我們的資本效率很高，運用我們過去的投資，現在又更具資本效率，得以在相同的量通過（throughput）下運作。再者，如我們所說，往前看，我們不一定預期會有產量成長本身，這也與 Chevron 那邊所談的一致；就我們的指引而言，往後推進的主要因素其實是通膨帶來的成本上升。

And so that's really kind of driver and some OpEx savings. We are continuing to see synergies that ever seen that acquisition, we're seeing that hemp-to as well, and that's certainly coming through in our OpEx. That's part of what we're seeing in terms of OpEx savings as well. So I'd say, look, it's -- I think would say early days because we're still now a year into the merger acquisition of Hess into Chevron, but certainly from the midstream side, we're seeing the ability to maintain that production even at lower rig counts and seeing big comp becoming from our point of view, less important as Chevron can really maintain that production level going forward.

因此那才是主要驅動因素，另外還有一些 OpEx 節省。我們持續看到協同效益，自從那次收購以來，我們也在那邊看到同樣的情況，而這確實反映在我們的 OpEx 上。這也是我們看到 OpEx 節省的一部分。所以我會說，你看——我認為現在還算早期，因為我們距離 Hess 併入 Chevron 的併購案也才一年，但就中游端而言，我們看到即使在較低鑽機數下仍能維持產量，並且從我們的角度來看，隨著 Chevron 能夠在未來維持該產量水準，鑽機數的重要性正在降低。

I appreciate that the real answer. I want to ask one follow-up, and I understand there's probably not a ton you can say here, but they also made a point of mentioning on the call, just a review of kind of their broader midstream strategy in the basin. Is there any kind of context or perspective that you guys are able to share at this point? Thank you.

我很感謝你坦率的回答。我想再追問一個問題，我理解你們可能不方便多說，但他們也在電話會議中特別提到，正在檢視他們在該盆地更廣泛的中游策略。你們此刻是否能分享任何背景或觀點？謝謝。

Sure. No, I think, look, that one's really mentioned in the context of just Bakken and getting to know the Bakken and the production efficiencies and optimizing that we just talked about. Look, from our side, we're focused on execution of our plan, leveraging the sort of investment to drive free cash flow generation and really producing results like we saw in this quarter.

當然。不，我想，你看，那主要是在 Bakken 的脈絡下提到的，也就是更了解 Bakken、我們剛剛談到的生產效率與最佳化。就我們而言，我們專注於執行我們的計畫，運用既有投資來推動自由現金流的產生，並真正交出像本季這樣的成果。

I appreciate the time. Thank you.

感謝你撥冗。謝謝。

Doug Irwin, Citi.

花旗的 Doug Irwin。

Hey, thanks for the question. I wanted to start with the EBITDA margin this quarter. You hit 85%, which is well above your 75% target and realize there are probably some one-time cost benefits this quarter. But if I look back, it's been quite some time since you've even been below 80%, I think. So just wondering if that target is starting to look a bit conservative today or if there's maybe an expectation of converging back towards that over time.

嗨，謝謝讓我提問。我想先從本季 EBITDA 利潤率談起。你們達到 85%，遠高於你們 75% 的目標，也理解本季可能有一些一次性的成本利多。但如果我回頭看，其實你們已經很久沒有低於 80% 了，我想。想請教這個目標在今天看起來是否開始偏保守？或者是否預期隨時間推移會逐步收斂回那個水準？

I'm glad you noticed the strong performance on our margin. It is extraordinary that we are managing to keep a very healthy margin at 85% this quarter. You're right, there are some smaller adjustments that were recorded as credits this quarter. They are relatively minor, but they did help the margin. But the main driver, as I mentioned in my earlier remarks, is phasing of OpEx that shifted across to Q3 and Q4. But while we continue a pretty strong trend of excess of 80%, we're comfortable in maintaining our 75% margin target. It is what we expect on the long term. But we'll enjoy the greater than 80% margins in the meantime. But we're not intending to change our guidance just yet.

很高興你注意到我們利潤率的強勁表現。本季我們能維持 85% 的健康利潤率確實非常出色。你說得對，本季有一些較小的調整以貸項入帳。它們相對不大，但確實對利潤率有幫助。不過主要驅動因素，如我先前的發言所提到，是 OpEx 的時點安排，部分移轉到第三季與第四季。但即便我們持續維持超過 80% 的強勁趨勢，我們仍有信心維持 75% 的利潤率目標，因為那是我們對長期的預期。不過在此期間，我們也會享受高於 80% 的利潤率。但我們目前還不打算調整指引。

Got it. And then maybe just a follow-up on capital allocation. You didn't do a buyback this quarter, and activity has been a little less ratable here despite the free cash flow outlook remaining pretty strong. So just curious kind of how you're thinking about buybacks versus debt paydown and if you kind of have an ultimate target of where you expect to trend relative to that 3x long-term leverage range you've talked about?

了解。接著想追問資本配置。本季你們沒有進行庫藏股回購，而在自由現金流展望仍相當強勁的情況下，回購活動看起來也比較不那麼平均穩定。想請教你們如何看待回購與償債之間的取捨？以及相對於你們提過的長期 3 倍槓桿區間，你們是否有一個最終希望趨近的目標？

Yes. No, thanks, Doug. There is no change to our guidance that we issued in December on our financial plan there. We will use some of the excess adjusted free cash flow to pay down debt as well as perform returns of capital to shareholders. And you saw that in March with the $60 million share repurchase from the public and our sponsor. And in this quarter, we paid down $87 million against the revolver. And we've guided $280 million of excess adjusted free cash flow for this year as a target. So we've got some capacity left to do further shareholder returns of capital or debt pay down.

是的。謝謝，Doug。我們在 12 月發布的財務計畫指引沒有任何改變。我們會使用部分超額的調整後自由現金流，一方面償還債務，另一方面也向股東進行資本回饋。你在 3 月已看到我們從公開市場與我們的贊助方回購 6,000 萬美元的股份。而本季我們償還了循環信貸（revolver）8,700 萬美元。我們也指引今年超額調整後自由現金流的目標為 2.8 億美元。因此我們仍有一些餘裕可進一步進行股東資本回饋或償債。

But I'd say that the Board evaluates this mix of paydown and return of capital during the year and throughout the year, and that's part of their consideration when they evaluate this. And so while we do multiple share buybacks or returns of equity per year, it is ultimately a Board decision. With regards to our longer-term view on leverage, right now, we're at 3% -- I mean 3 times leverage, and we expect that to go lower. We're not using any new debt to fund any share returns or share buybacks rather or debt is going to stay in absolute terms, the same.

但我想說，董事會會在年度內、並且持續地評估償債與資本回饋的組合，這也是他們在評估時的考量之一。因此，雖然我們一年會進行多次股份回購或股權回饋，但最終仍由董事會決定。至於我們對長期槓桿的看法，目前我們在 3%——我是說 3 倍槓桿，我們預期會再降低。我們不會用新增債務來資助任何股東回饋或股份回購；我們的債務在絕對金額上會維持不變。

But then as we've indicated, we'll use some of that adjusted free -- excess free cash flow to pay down some of that debt. So that will drift lower. And then we're guiding an increase in our EBITDA. So the trend will be that the debt ratio will go lower. By 2028, we're expecting to get down in the region of about 2.5 times. That's what the guidance would indicate. We don't expect to go much lower than that. But there's no absolute level of debt that we're aiming to try and achieve, but it will -- we do expect it to go lower than 3 times.

不過如我們所指出的，我們會用部分調整後的超額自由現金流來償還部分債務，因此槓桿會逐步下降。同時我們也指引 EBITDA 將增加，所以趨勢會是負債比率下降。到 2028 年，我們預期會降到約 2.5 倍左右，這是指引所顯示的。我們不預期會比那更低太多。我們並沒有一個要達成的絕對債務水準目標，但我們確實預期會低於 3 倍。

Understood. Thanks for your time.

了解。謝謝你撥冗。

I'm not showing any further questions at this time. And as such, this does conclude today's presentation. We thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect, and have a wonderful day.

我目前沒有看到其他問題。因此，今天的簡報到此結束。感謝各位的參與。您現在可以中斷連線，祝您有美好的一天。