HDFC Bank Ltd (HDB) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, good day. Welcome to HDFC Bank Limited Q1 FY26 earnings conference call.

女士們、先生們，大家好。歡迎參加 HDFC Bank Limited Q1 FY26 收益電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Srinivasan Vaidyanathan, Chief Financial Officer, HDFC Bank. Thank you and over to you Mr. Vaidyanathan.

現在，我將會議交給 HDFC 銀行財務長 Srinivasan Vaidyanathan 先生。謝謝您，Vaidyanathan 先生。

Thank you, [Nirav]. Good evening and welcome to all the participants today.

謝謝你，[尼拉夫]。晚上好，歡迎今天的所有與會者。

We have Sashi Jagdishan, our CEO and MD, with us this evening. We'll hand it off to him for opening remarks, then we'll get back to you. Sashi, over to you for opening remarks, please.

今晚，我們的執行長兼董事總經理 Sashi Jagdishan 與我們一同出席。我們會將其交給他作開場白，然後再回覆您。Sashi，請您致開幕詞。

Thank you, Srini. Thank you all on the call to join us on a Saturday evening.

謝謝你，Srini。感謝大家在星期六晚上加入我們的行列。

Let me just start off with a little bit of what we see on the macro. You all know this much better. But let me summarize: the global situation remains pretty volatile, with a weakening growth outlook amid tariff-related and geopolitical uncertainties. Within this context, India remains relatively better placed, supported by a stable macro environment.

讓我先從宏觀角度介紹一下我們所看到的情況。大家對此都非常了解。但讓我總結一下：全球局勢仍然相當不穩定，在關稅和地緣政治不確定性的影響下，成長前景正在減弱。在此背景下，印度在穩定的宏觀環境支持下，仍處於相對有利的地位。

For this fiscal, we expect GDP growth to sustain, supported by pick-up in improved performance of domestic factors. Normal monsoons, income tax cuts, which you saw in the last budget; benign food inflation, as you have been recently seeing the prints on inflation augur very well for domestic demand, especially during the festive season. Concerted policy impetus, which we have been seeing right from January, February of this year until recently, support sustainable growth.

對於本財年，我們預期國內生產毛額成長將持續，並受國內因素表現改善的支持。正常的季風、所得稅的削減（這些在上一輪預算中都有體現）；食品通膨溫和（正如大家最近看到的通膨數據），這些都預示著國內需求將良好，尤其是在節日期間。我們從今年一月、二月到最近一直看到的協同政策動力支持著永續成長。

Coming to our performance, let me just recap as to how we traversed this over the last 12, 18 months: last year, we have grown our average deposits at a healthy pace of 16% year on year and continue to gain market share as we have done in the past.

談到我們的業績，讓我簡單回顧一下我們在過去 12 到 18 個月中的表現：去年，我們的平均存款同比增長了 16%，並且像過去一樣繼續獲得市場份額。

However, we slowed down our average advances or AUM assets under management growth to about 7% last year, in alignment with our strategic objectives to bring down the CD -- credit deposit -- ratio from 110% at the time of the merger to about 95% as we speak today. This rate of growth on the assets under management has improved to 8% in the quarter just ended, which is the June quarter FY26.

然而，去年我們將平均預付款或管理的 AUM 資產成長率放緩至約 7%，這符合我們的策略目標，即將 CD（信用存款）比率從合併時的 110% 降至今天的約 95%。在剛結束的這個季度，即 2026 財年 6 月季度，管理資產的成長率已提高至 8%。

Our growth engines are well geared to grow. And as we move forward, we expect our loan growth to continue to improve from here and remain confident of growing our advances at the system growth rate in FY26 and higher than the system in FY27.

我們的成長引擎已做好充分準備。隨著我們繼續前進，我們預計我們的貸款成長將從現在開始繼續改善，並且仍然有信心我們的貸款將在 26 財年達到系統成長率，並在 27 財年高於系統成長率。

The growth enablers, apart from balance sheet growth, remain customer centricity, technology, and our people. Some of these aspects, I think during the course of this quarter and probably the next half of the year, I think we shall be talking more about it as we unveil some of the initiatives that is underway in the bank.

除了資產負債表成長之外，成長推動因素仍然是客戶中心、技術和我們的員工。我認為，在本季度乃至下半年，我們將在公佈銀行正在進行的一些舉措時，多討論這些方面。

As mentioned in the previous earnings call, both the CFO and Bhavin did mention -- and you can recall some of the transcripts of the last earnings call -- policy rate changes impact the loans tied to external benchmarks, while deposit side takes longer to factor it in. As they probably would have mentioned, a large part of our asset side of the balance sheet is floating in nature. It's somewhere around the 70%; whilst the liability side is, more or less, fixed in nature.

正如上次收益電話會議中所提到的，財務長和 Bhavin 都提到過——你可以回想一下上次收益電話會議的一些記錄——政策利率的變化會影響與外部基準掛鉤的貸款，而存款方面則需要更長的時間才能將其考慮在內。正如他們可能提到的那樣，我們資產負債表的資產方很大一部分本質上是浮動的。大約在 70% 左右；而負債方則或多或少是固定的。

So this would be a headwind in terms of when the rate cycle is on a downward trend. This impact is dependent on the pace and depth of the rate cut. You are seeing that in the results just announced. Whilst we may see quarterly fluctuations in margins due to this lead lag impact, we expect to stabilize it over a period of time.

因此，當利率週期處於下降趨勢時，這將是一個阻力。這種影響取決於降息的速度和深度。您可以在剛剛公佈的結果中看到這一點。雖然我們可能會因為這種領先滯後的影響而看到利潤率的季度波動，但我們預計它會在一段時間內穩定下來。

Our asset quality, one of our main USPs, remains healthy, positioning us well for growth in both assets and deposits as liquidity and demand improves.

我們的資產品質（我們的主要賣點之一）仍然保持健康，隨著流動性和需求的改善，這為我們資產和存款的成長奠定了良好的基礎。

During the quarter, we carried out the HDB Financial Services listing process, wherein the bank also diluted some stake and which eventually culminated in the stocks being listed on July 2. We thank all the investors who participated in the said IPO.

在本季度，我們進行了建屋局金融服務公司的上市流程，其中銀行也稀釋了部分股權，最終導致股票於 7 月 2 日上市。我們感謝所有參與此次IPO的投資者。

Earlier today, the Board also announced an interim dividend of INR5 per share. They also recommended to shareholders the first ever bonus share issue in a ratio of 1:1. Srini and team will probably give you more details as questions come about from all of you.

今天早些時候，董事會還宣布每股派發 5 印度盧比的中期股息。他們還建議向股東首次以 1:1 的比例發行紅股。當你們提出問題時，Srini 和他的團隊可能會向你們提供更多細節。

So until then, I would like to express my gratitude to all our employees for their hard work and performance in a very challenging environment as we move from a -- we managed the slowing down of the engine last year; now, to get back into its momentum as we have laid out and as a strategic objective, it requires a lot of courage. I think they have done extremely well. We are proud of them.

所以在那之前，我想對我們所有的員工表示感謝，感謝他們在我們從一個非常具有挑戰性的環境中辛勤工作和表現，我們去年設法控制了引擎的減速；現在，要按照我們制定的戰略目標重新恢復動力，這需要很大的勇氣。我認為他們做得非常好。我們為他們感到驕傲。

Gratitude to our shareholders who have supported us in all our times and to the Board for their leadership support and their strategic guidance.

感謝一直以來支持我們的股東，感謝董事會的領導支持和策略指導。

So thank you, all, on the call for your support as well. Srini, over to you.

所以，也感謝大家在電話中給予的支持。Srini，交給你了。

Thank you, Sashi. We go straight to Q&A.

謝謝你，Sashi。我們直接進入問答環節。

We can open it up and proceed. Nirav, please open and get into the queue, please.

我們可以打開它並繼續。Nirav，請打開並排隊。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Mahrukh Adajania, Nuvama.

馬魯克·阿達賈尼亞，努瓦瑪。

I had a couple of questions. Firstly, on your margins. Just wanted to recap on your method of repricing on EBLR. Following a rate cut, in how many months does the full EBLR book reprice or at least, the repo book? And just wanted to make sure that the EBLR linkage is around 65%, 67%. So that's my first question.

我有幾個問題。首先，關於你的利潤。只是想重述一下您在 EBLR 上重新定價的方法。降息後，EBLR 全部帳簿或至少回購帳簿在多少個月後會重新定價？只是想確保 EBLR 關聯度約為 65%、67%。這是我的第一個問題。

My second question is on growth. Obviously, there's hope that it will recover, but it's only slowing in the interim. So what will trigger growth from current levels, right? Because in the first quarter, even HDFC Bank's growth was subdued and so was everyone else's. So what will trigger growth because it's been falling over the last two quarters for the sector?

我的第二個問題是關於成長的。顯然，人們有希望復甦，但目前復甦速度只是放緩。那麼什麼會引發當前水準的成長呢？因為在第一季度，即使是 HDFC 銀行的成長也受到抑制，其他銀行的成長也同樣如此。那麼，什麼將引發該行業成長，因為過去兩個季度該行業一直在下滑？

Okay. Thank you, Mahrukh. Let's talk about the margin. You asked about the EBLR and the pricing and so on.

好的。謝謝你，馬魯克。讓我們來談談利潤。您詢問了 EBLR 和定價等問題。

The February price change on EBLR and the April change, yes, both of that, for most part, would be fully in. The June change of 50 basis points will not be fully in; in fact, substantially will not be in because it takes one month to three months, right? At least one to three months for pricing in. Some are monthly resets, some are quarterly resets, and so on. So we'll have to wait and get there.

是的，EBLR 2 月的價格變動和 4 月的價格變動大部分都會完全體現出來。6 月的 50 個基點的變化不會完全實現；事實上，基本上不會實現，因為這需要一個月到三個月的時間，對嗎？定價至少需要一到三個月的時間。有些是每月重置，有些是每季重置，等等。所以我們必須等待才能到達那裡。

Two of those are done. The third one, which happened in June, we'll have to wait for that balance of the part to play out. So that's one on the margin from an EBLR yield impact point of view.

其中兩個已經完成。第三次是在六月發生的，我們必須等待各部分平衡的發揮。因此，從 EBLR 收益影響的角度來看，這是一個邊際因素。

That's why you're seeing the change in the yield on assets is about 20 basis points or so -- no, 30 basis points -- but we had [7], [8]; last quarter had a one-timer. So based on it, it's about 22 basis points or so -- is the change in the quarter. And so it has to come through for the rest. That's one on the margin.

這就是為什麼你會看到資產收益率的變化大約是 20 個基點左右——不，是 30 個基點——但我們有 [7]，[8]；上個季度有一個一次性事件。因此，基於此，本季的變化約為 22 個基點左右。所以剩下的事情也必須完成。這是邊緣上的一個。

Second, on the growth you touched upon -- and I'm sure Sashi will jump in to talk about -- I think we already talked about in the preamble in terms of all of the -- both the monetary policy support in terms of the rate reduction that puts more money in the hands of certain consumers with certain products; and also, the yield going down; and also the fiscal policy, which also provided relief in terms of some tax benefits.

第二，關於您提到的成長問題——我相信 Sashi 也會談到——我想我們在序言中已經討論過所有方面——包括降低利率方面的貨幣政策支持，通過降低利率讓更多資金流向擁有特定產品的某些消費者；同時收益率下降；還有財政政策，也通過一些稅收優惠提供了緩解。

The overall market inflation, both food inflation and the total inflation below that 4% target, it's 3.7% and some are even below. The food inflation is extremely low or nothing. All of that augurs well for consumption demand to pick up faster, both in the Urban segment as well as in the Rural segment.

整體市場通膨率，包括食品通膨率和總通膨率都低於4%的目標，為3.7%，有些甚至低於這個目標。食品通膨率極低或為零。所有這些都預示著城市和農村的消費需求將更快回升。

With the onset of the festival season, we do expect that there will be a greater fill in that area. Our approach is not only one segment. While we typically tend to mirror the GDP spectrum, which is consumption being 60% -- so retail predominant in that -- we are present across all of these segments and we would endeavor for a balanced growth across all with a tilt towards the consumer.

隨著節日季節的到來，我們預計該地區的客流量會更大。我們的方法不只針對一個部分。雖然我們通常傾向於反映 GDP 範圍，即消費佔 60%（因此零售占主導地位），但我們涵蓋了所有這些領域，我們將努力實現所有領域的平衡成長，並向消費者傾斜。

Sashi, from an overall --

Sashi，從整體上--

We are seeing some amount of healthy demand from the Rural side. I think the segment which we are catering to is already factoring in better monsoon. And so we are seeing some amount of positive inquiries coming in at our ground level there. So there is an opportunity on that front in terms of potential growth.

我們看到農村地區有一定程度的健康需求。我認為我們所服務的部分已經將更好的季風因素考慮在內。因此，我們看到基層收到了一些正面的詢問。因此，從潛在成長的角度來看，這方面存在著機會。

In the recent past, in the Urban consumption, obviously, the premium side, whilst is growing, there has been a little bit of a fatigue. But we expect the festival season, which will start shortly -- whether it is the Onam or the Ganesh Chaturthi, et cetera, a fair amount of festivals will start to kick in in the country from August onwards or even earlier.

近期，城市消費，尤其是高端消費，雖然在成長，但也出現了一些疲態。但我們預計節日季節即將開始——無論是奧南節還是像頭神節等等，從 8 月甚至更早開始，該國將開始舉辦大量節日活動。

I think that mood will have a reasonable amount of impetus. That could be a good trigger as well. As I mentioned, the fact that interest rates have come down, the fact that people would have now started to see savings arising out of the fiscal larges that was given in the last budget, I think all that will play in with the convergence of the sentiments and the moods, which normally the Indian festivities normally bring about.

我認為這種情緒會有相當的推動力。這也可能是個很好的觸發因素。正如我所提到的，利率下降的事實，人們現在開始看到上一年度預算中提供的財政支持帶來的儲蓄的事實，我認為所有這些都將與情緒和心情的融合有關，而這通常是印度節日帶來的。

On the MSME side, I think the sectors that we normally cater to, as I said, despite the uncertainties on the tariff front, I think we have seen a fair amount of upfronting of exports to take advantage of this potential tariff rates. And so we do see a reasonable amount of buoyancy in some of the good customers in the MSME segment as well, which should continue even as we get into the second quarter or the second half of the year.

在中小微型企業方面，我認為我們通常服務的行業，正如我所說，儘管關稅方面存在不確定性，但我認為我們已經看到相當多的出口預付，以利用這一潛在的關稅稅率。因此，我們確實看到中小微型企業領域的一些優質客戶也表現出了相當程度的活躍度，這種勢頭甚至會在進入第二季度或下半年時持續下去。

As regards to Corporate, I think they've been enjoying, in the last couple of months, a reasonably benign interest rates. And obviously, the system, since being flushed with liquidity, have the rates being offered to these AA and above corporates -- are pretty attractive. So obviously, we may be to the -- some of the good corporates, which we are comfortable with, we shall be participating in some of them for their working capital demand as well.

至於企業，我認為在過去的幾個月裡，他們一直享受著相當溫和的利率。顯然，由於該系統流動性充裕，向這些 AA 等級及以上企業提供的利率相當有吸引力。因此，顯然，對於一些我們感到滿意的優秀企業，我們可能會參與其中，以滿足他們的營運資金需求。

We're not seeing anything great on the capital -- private CapEx side as yet, but we shall surely participate in, as Srini did mention, across all our segments, whether it is Rural, whether it's Retail, whether it is MSME, and whether it's Corporate as well.

目前，我們在資本——私人資本支出方面還沒有看到什麼偉大的成就，但正如 Srini 所提到的，我們一定會參與到我們所有的領域，無論是農村、零售、中小微型企業還是企業。

As regards to mortgages, that too has seen intense competition from the public sector enterprises. But having said that, I think some amount of participation, considering the brand and considering the fact that we are also trying to see how to optimize our cost of processing on that, I think we should be able to pick up some of the volumes during the stress period as well.

至於抵押貸款，也面臨公共部門企業的激烈競爭。但話雖如此，我認為一定程度的參與，考慮到品牌，考慮到我們也在試圖如何優化我們的處理成本，我認為我們也應該能夠在壓力時期獲得一些銷售。

So we have a clear-cut grounds-up strategy in terms of how we will achieve our momentum from now on. As Srini did mention, we are coming from a very low growth for the reasons that I just mentioned that we had a compulsion to bring down our credit deposit ratio rather quickly, which we did reasonably well last year.

因此，對於我們如何從現在開始實現我們的發展勢頭，我們有一個明確的、自上而下的策略。正如 Srini 所提到的，我們的成長速度非常低，原因正如我剛才提到的，我們必須迅速降低信貸存款比率，而去年我們在這方面做得相當不錯。

But now, from that low, we have already seen the momentum. Although small in the first quarter, I think it's playing out well. We should see this sequentially moving up over the next three quarters from now.

但現在，從那個低點，我們已經看到了勢頭。儘管第一季的規模不大，但我認為效果很好。從現在起，我們應該會看到這一數字在未來三個季度內持續上升。

Rikin Shah, IIFL Capital.

Rikin Shah，IIFL Capital。

Just had a couple of questions. The first one, I noticed that the CRB loan classification has been regrouped. So how are the portfolios now allocated to different business heads? Has there been any rejig there as well? That's the first question.

我有幾個問題。第一個，我注意到 CRB 貸款分類已經重新分組。那麼現在投資組合是如何分配給不同的業務主管呢？那裡也進行過任何調整嗎？這是第一個問題。

The second one is on the asset quality. Just wanted to clarify what is the NPA recognition policy for any one-time settlements offered to the standard customers?

第二是資產品質。只是想澄清一下，對於向標準客戶提供的任何一次性結算，NPA 識別政策是什麼？

And thirdly, on the credit cost, while it's still very, very benign, it has moved up from 29 basis points to 41 basis points on net credit cost basis. Where do you expect this to settle in the interim?

第三，就信貸成本而言，雖然仍然非常溫和，但以淨信貸成本計算，已從 29 個基點上升至 41 個基點。您預計這一問題將如何暫時解決？

Okay. Yeah. A few things. One, on the rejig of the portfolio. You'll see it on page 11, you see that there is a small and mid-market, which is there as a separate category; and the emerging corporates is part of Corporate. That's one, right?

好的。是的。有幾件事。一、關於投資組合的調整。您會在第 11 頁看到，其中有一個小型和中型市場，它是一個單獨的類別；而新興企業是企業的一部分。那是一個，對吧？

Second, there is one other reporting that is there, which is product-wise advances, which is part of the separate release, which is also a financial metrics release (inaudible) give us that is done. That also has got a similar break-up for the three time periods, which is last year, last quarter, and this quarter; but that's where it has moved, right?

其次，還有另一份報告，即產品方面的進展，它是單獨發布的一部分，也是一份財務指標發布（聽不清楚）給我們完成的。對於三個時間段（即去年、上個季度和本季度）也有類似的細分；但它已經移動到那裡了，對嗎？

And there are some agriculture book and some SLI book, which are part of Retail, which are core Retail, which has moved to the Retail assets. That grouping, you will see in that product-wise advances list that we have provided, you'll see that -- what has moved from the previous period.

還有一些農業書籍和一些 SLI 書籍，它們是零售的一部分，是核心零售，已轉移到零售資產。您將在我們提供的產品進步清單中看到該分組，您將看到 - 與上一時期相比發生了哪些變化。

Sure, Srini. But has the business allocation to different heads also been rejigged along with this, if you could highlight that?

當然，Srini。但是，不同主管之間的業務分配是否也隨之進行了重新調整，您能否強調一下這一點？

So Abhishek, the respective products --

因此，Abhishek，相應的產品--

Rikin.

里金。

Rikin, respective product heads, right, like, for example, the SLI head is continuing to be the same SLI head, is reporting into the Retail franchise, which is being headed by Arvind.

Rikin，各自的產品負責人，對的，例如，SLI 負責人繼續擔任同一個 SLI 負責人，向零售特許經營部門匯報，該部門由 Arvind 領導。

So the respective business heads have remained the same. They've been reporting into a different hierarchy who report into Sashi differently.

因此各自的業務主管保持不變。他們一直向不同的層級報告，而這些層級以不同的方式向 Sashi 報告。

That's the only change that has happened. No ground level staff has changed in this.

這是唯一發生的變化。基層工作人員在這方面沒有任何變化。

And NPA.

還有 NPA。

What is the second one he was having?

他所患的第二個是什麼？

NPA recognition.

NPA 識別。

(multiple speakers) to do a settlement. Settlement, if you do a settlement, one-time settlement, similar part of the NPA. (inaudible)

（多位發言者）做出和解。結算，如果你進行結算，一次性結算，類似於 NPA 的一部分。（聽不清楚）

We follow the norms.

我們遵守規範。

Definitely. There is RBI regulations around those, which will be following that. In most cases, there will be some exceptions to it. But in most cases, it will be following -- any change of such will necessarily classify -- have a classification downgrade.

確實。印度儲備銀行 (RBI) 對此有相關規定，並將嚴格遵守。大多數情況下都會有一些例外。但在大多數情況下，任何此類變化都必然會導致分類下降。

Whether that turns into an NPA, it will depend on each, case by case. But largely, any change in that one-time settlement would lead to an NPA recognition.

這是否會變成不良資產，將視具體情況而定。但總體而言，對一次性解決方案的任何變更都會導致對 NPA 的承認。

Got it. And lastly, on the credit cost, moved up slightly. So how does that behave in the next 12 to 24 months?

知道了。最後，信貸成本略有上升。那麼未來 12 到 24 個月內情況會是如何呢？

See, credit cost, normally, the June and December quarters are slightly elevated, which is what you see because of the agri, largely driven through the agricultural portfolio. Based on the crop season, it moves up between June and December.

你看，信貸成本，通常情況下，六月和十二月季度會略有上升，這是由於農業造成的，主要是透過農業投資組合推動的。根據作物季節，六月至十二月期間價格上漲。

While I would not venture to give you one particular number, we have been trying to tell that over the last few quarters that the credit costs continue to be benign. And there will be some point in time it will revert to mean. What does that mean is a moot point and how long it takes is also a moot point. But as of now, it continues to be benign and healthy.

雖然我不敢透露一個具體的數字，但我們一直試圖告訴大家，過去幾季信貸成本仍然保持溫和。到某個時間點，它就會恢復到原來的樣子。這是什麼意思是一個沒有實際意義的問題，需要多長時間也是一個沒有實際意義的問題。但截至目前，它仍然是良性和健康的。

Pranav, Bernstein.

普拉納夫，伯恩斯坦。

Two questions. One, on the CASA deposits. The bank hasn't really gained CASA market share or maybe even lost some share in the last four to six quarters, after a stellar three-year period from '22-'23. So what's really changed? And of course, more importantly, what would reverse the trend?

兩個問題。一、關於CASA存款。在經歷了 2022 年至 2023 年的輝煌三年之後，該銀行在過去四到六個季度中並沒有真正獲得 CASA 市場份額，甚至可能損失了一些份額。那麼真正改變了什麼呢？當然，更重要的是，什麼可以扭轉這個趨勢？

The second question is on your lending franchise. Can you share what percent of your 100 million customers would be loan customers? And I ask this in the context of HDB, right, which claims almost a 20 million customer franchise and has growth ambitions. I was wondering if there's a chance of a future conflict where both entities are with the same customer.

第二個問題是關於你們的貸款特許經營權。您能否分享一下，您的 1 億客戶中有多少百分比是貸款客戶？我是在 HDB 的背景下提出這個問題的，HDB 聲稱擁有近 2000 萬客戶特許經營權，並且有成長雄心。我想知道未來當兩個實體都與同一個客戶發生衝突時是否有可能。

Pranav, let me answer this; and then, Srini can complement what I'm trying to tell.

Pranav，讓我來回答這個問題；然後，Srini 可以補充我想要表達的意思。

Number one is on -- let's face it, when we merged with HDFC Limited in July '23, there was a day-zero adjustment of about 3.5%, 4% from where we were. So 41% to 38% is -- or 37.5%, 38% is where we settled down on that.

第一點是－讓我們面對現實吧，當我們在 2023 年 7 月與 HDFC Limited 合併時，當天的零點調整幅度約為 3.5% 到 4%。因此，41% 到 38% 是 - 或 37.5%，38% 是我們確定的。

If you look at what we needed to do right from the day zero of the merger, we had a massive effort to reduce the credit deposit ratio. It was a combination of trying to slow down the engine on the loan side and also, try and step up the deposits to not only cater to some of the incremental reserve requirements that was necessitated because we took in more liabilities from the erstwhile HDFC Limited balance sheet, but also provide that business-as-usual incremental reserve requirements as well, where we needed to keep that amount of extra deposit momentum.

如果你看看我們從合併第一天起就需要做的事情，你會發現我們付出了巨大的努力來降低信貸存款比率。我們一方面試圖減緩貸款方面的增長速度，另一方面試圖增加存款，不僅是為了滿足由於我們從以前的 HDFC 有限公司資產負債表中承擔了更多負債而必須滿足的一些增量準備金要求，而且還要提供一切照舊的增量準備金要求，我們需要保持額外存款的勢頭。

Mind you, we had a an environment which is rather challenging, where the liquidity was very tight, from the time we merged with HDFC Limited.

請注意，從我們與 HDFC Limited 合併以來，我們所處的環境就相當具有挑戰性，流動性非常緊張。

When you have this scenario, you need to give clear directions in terms of what their priorities are. When you have branches and when you need to give clear directions, the direction that was given was, you need to get deposits so that we can ultimately ensure that the primary objective of bringing down the CD ratio was -- comes down.

當你遇到這種情況時，你需要就他們的優先事項給予明確的指示。當你有分行並且需要給出明確的指示時，給出的方向是，你需要獲得存款，以便我們最終能夠確保降低 CD 比率的主要目標 - 下降。

So we did not provide any nuances to say that we also want good CASA, et cetera, because that -- it's not something that you can ask anyone to say, get CASA. It is -- CASA is a resultant of multiple ground-level strategies in terms of how you engage with customers; how you fulfill the financial needs of a customer; how do you upsell multiple products, and when you upsell, there is a lot of historical evidence and empirical evidence to say that with more and more products that you upsell, you will get your CASA balances.

因此，我們沒有提供任何細微差別來表明我們也想要好的 CASA 等等，因為那——這不是你可以要求任何人說「獲得 CASA」的事情。是的——CASA 是多種基層策略的結果，涉及您如何與客戶互動；如何滿足客戶的財務需求；如何追加銷售多種產品，以及當您追加銷售時，有大量歷史證據和經驗證據表明，隨著您追加銷售的產品越來越多，您將獲得 CASA 餘額。

So we are very clear that you will have -- the priority is to get deposits. And that is what the signal was given -- so whilst -- which is reflected in the fact that we got in deposits, we got in a good amount of market share, we got in at the prices that the market is paying amongst the large peer group entities. And I think they have done extremely well.

所以我們非常清楚，你的首要任務是獲得存款。這就是發出的信號——因此——這反映在我們獲得存款、獲得大量市場份額的事實中，我們以市場在大型同行實體中支付的價格進入。我認為他們做得非常好。

Where we are at this juncture, I think, going forward, with the liquidity environment being rather benign, the fact is that now we have some amount of breather on the credit deposit ratio and the liquidity in the system and in the bank.

我認為，就目前情況而言，展望未來，流動性環境相當溫和，事實上，現在我們的信貸存款比率以及系統和銀行的流動性都有了一定程度的喘息空間。

We probably will have -- and this year, in FY '26, we will -- our directions to the frontline team is to now start to upsell more and more products,; fulfill the needs of what a customer wants; step up engagement; and use a great customer experience, which we will talk about now or even in the coming quarters in terms of how we're going to be creating a great delight, which will eventually lead to getting back some of the mojo on the low-cost deposit franchise as well.

我們可能會有——今年，也就是 26 財年，我們會有——我們對一線團隊的指示是現在開始銷售越來越多的產品；滿足客戶的需求；加強參與；並提供良好的客戶體驗，我們現在或甚至在接下來的幾個季度中都會談論如何創造極大的樂趣，這最終也將導致在低成本存款特許經營權上恢復一些魔力。

So this is part one. You will start to see this. Of course, for a large balance sheet, this will take a little bit of time, but I think we will cover it up, and you will see the needle moving slowly but surely on this particular front.

這是第一部分。您將開始看到這一點。當然，對於大型資產負債表來說，這需要一點時間，但我認為我們會解決這個問題，你會看到指針在這個特定方面緩慢但穩定地移動。

The second part of this question was on the --?

這個問題的第二部分是關於--？

Lending customers and HBD --

貸款客戶和 HBD——

HDB, we have maintained this. I think the segment that they catered to is about a notch or two below that of HDFC Bank. For the kind of rates that they offer in the market for products, there is definitely, why would a customer from HDFC Bank who has a much lesser rack rates would even go to an HDB for their incremental requirements. Obviously, it has to be a notch below. That is not a segment that we are catering to at this juncture.

組屋，我們一直保持著這一點。我認為他們所迎合的客戶群比 HDFC 銀行低一到兩個等級。對於他們在市場上提供的產品利率類型，肯定存在這樣的問題，那麼為什麼 HDFC 銀行的客戶，即使他們的標準利率低得多，也會去 HDB 滿足他們的增量需求呢？顯然，它必須低一點。這不是我們目前要迎合的群體。

I think we have enough to penetrate our own existing customer base and also the kind of segment that we are comfortable with from a product program basis. So even if one were to do a deduplication between the customer sets, the overlaps would be extremely minimal, et cetera.

我認為我們已經有足夠的能力滲透到我們現有的客戶群中，並且從產品計劃的角度來說，我們也已經適應了這種細分市場。因此，即使對客戶集進行重複資料刪除，重疊也會非常小，等等。

So as we speak -- and Srini, if you want to add something -- the segmentation will continue to be distinct between the bank and HDB for a long period of time. There is zero or very minimal overlap at this juncture. That will continue to stay for a long period of time.

所以正如我們所說——Srini，如果你想補充一點——銀行和建屋局之間的細分將在很長一段時間內繼續保持明顯。此時重疊為零或極小。這種狀況將會持續很長一段時間。

One other aspect of what you had asked also, Pranav, if I venture to say, in our customer base, cards is the maximum penetration from a customer base, almost; call it, 15% to 20% card. We have 24 million cards. It's one of the highest penetration of that.

普拉納夫，關於您所問的另一個方面，如果我敢說，在我們的客戶群中，信用卡的滲透率最高，幾乎可以稱之為 15% 到 20%。我們有 2400 萬張卡。這是滲透率最高的一種。

So every other product, call it, anywhere between 5% to 10% to 12%. So it's a long runway in terms of penetrating into our own customer base for various cross-sell opportunities.

其他所有產品的價格都在 5% 到 10% 到 12% 之間。因此，就深入我們自己的客戶群並尋找各種交叉銷售機會而言，這是一個漫長的過程。

Very clear on the HDB one. Just a quick follow-up on the CASA one. I was more wondering if any of your recent actions -- it seems to have coincided with you slowing down corporate credit, for example, right? So I was just wondering if there's something even more immediate or a side effect of what you have done, apart from all the other stuff that you talked about in terms of customer experience, et cetera, driving the longer-term CASA.

HDB 的情況非常清楚。這只是對 CASA 的一個快速跟進。我更想知道的是，您最近的任何行動——例如，似乎與您放慢企業信貸速度相吻合，對嗎？所以我只是想知道，除了您談到的客戶體驗等方面的所有其他內容之外，您所做的事情是否還有更直接或副作用，可以推動長期的 CASA。

No, I don't think, Pranav, if I've understood you right. Are you saying that the slowdown in CASA is an impact of the slowdown in the Corporate segment?

不，我不這麼認為，普拉納夫，如果我理解得沒錯的話。您是說 CASA 業務的放緩是企業業務放緩的影響嗎？

Yeah. I was referring to that.

是的。我指的是那件事。

Not really. See, the thing is Corporate contributes to just a very smaller segment of or a proportion of our CASA. Yes, it is volatile. It has significant gyrations in the fourth quarter of every fiscal and hence, the outflows happen in the subsequent quarter.

並不真地。瞧，事實是企業只占我們 CASA 的一小部分或一部分。是的，它是不穩定的。每個財政年度的第四季都會出現明顯的波動，因此資金流出發生在隨後的一個季度。

But is it something that has a significant impact because of that? I don't think so.

但它是否因此而產生重大影響？我不這麼認為。

Frankly, our CASA emanates out of the engagement that we do to the Retail segment. And that -- maybe, let me add a slightly other nuance as well: the segment that we cater to on the Retail side is the middle and the upper middle income segment. This is something that we have always maintained over a long period of time.

坦白說，我們的 CASA 源自於我們對零售領域的參與。而且 — — 也許，讓我再補充一點其他的細微差別：我們在零售方面迎合的群體是中等收入和中上等收入群體。這是我們長期以來始終堅持的。

And this is -- if -- I can see about 687 people on this call, and I have about a few people in this room. If I were to take this as a microcosm of how a retail of a middle and upper middle income segment will behave, all of us would like to maximize our returns or optimize our returns.

這是 — — 如果 — — 我看到這通電話中有大約 687 人，而且這個房間裡大約有幾個人。如果我將此作為中等和中上等收入階層零售行為的縮影，那麼我們所有人都希望最大化我們的回報或優化我們的回報。

So this segment is -- the propensity of all of us to move and manage our funds is going to be far higher than what you would do to probably in the mid- to lower segments. That will also have a nuance or have a slight amount of impact in the near term for some of the institutions like us.

因此，這個部分是——我們所有人轉移和管理資金的傾向將遠高於中低端部分。對於我們這樣的一些機構來說，這也將在短期內產生細微的或輕微的影響。

But that's not something that -- but I still am very optimistic that the medium to long term, if we get our customer experience and our upsell strategies well at the ground level, I think we should be in a position to get back some of the gains that we lost on the low-cost deposits.

但那不是——但我仍然非常樂觀地認為，從中長期來看，如果我們在基層很好地獲得客戶體驗和追加銷售策略，我認為我們應該能夠收回在低成本存款上損失的一些收益。

Kunal Shah, Citigroup.

花旗集團的庫納爾沙阿 (Kunal Shah)。

In annual report also, you have indicated that you have been taking singles in FY25 and now positioned to go for boundaries. So any particular segments, the priorities which have been set out, apart from what you have indicated, in general, the strategy which has been there? Any key segments which you are looking at?

在年度報告中，您還表示，您在 25 財年一直致力於單打，現在準備好突破界限。那麼，除了您指出的整體策略之外，還有哪些特定的領域和優先事項？您正在關注哪些關鍵部分？

And this quarter, when we look at the number of employees, they have gone up by almost 4,000. So is it like we have ramped up employee addition or it is to do with the lower attrition rate in the first quarter? Otherwise, in the last full year, we have added hardly like 1,000-odd employees. And this quarter itself, we have added 4,000. So is it like front-loading, lower attrition? What is leading to that, yes?

本季度，員工人數增加了近 4,000 人。那麼，這是否意味著我們增加了員工數量，還是與第一季較低的員工流動率有關？除此之外，在過去的一年裡，我們新增的員工人數幾乎不到 1,000 人。僅本季度，我們就增加了 4,000 名。那麼這是否類似前期投入，進而降低人員流失率？是什麼導致了這種情況？

No. See, on the employee front, while I think Srini and the team will give you greater color, but I think these are the impact of the branches that we opened in the fourth quarter of last year. So that is coming about now. At least, a larger portion of that incremental hiring is from there.

不。你看，在員工方面，雖然我認為 Srini 和團隊會為你帶來更大的色彩，但我認為這些都是我們去年第四季開設的分店的影響。所以現在這種情況正在發生。至少，新增招募的很大一部分都是從那裡來的。

The balance -- some portion will be in technology teams as well. And (multiple speakers) --

平衡－一部分也將屬於技術團隊。和（多位發言者）——

A lot of people we have added in the sales force. That's part of the approach, both asset sales force as well as the brand sales force have added and getting those branches fully manned (multiple speakers) --

我們的銷售隊伍增加了許多人。這是方法的一部分，資產銷售人員和品牌銷售人員都增加了，並使這些分支機構完全配備人員（多位發言者）——

Yeah, that is -- as I said, that's the thing. See, the thing is I'm not here to say that I want to lay off anybody. We are very clear about it because we are blessed to be in a sector and in a country where the demand outstrips supply, and we have a long runway.

是的，正如我所說，事情就是這樣。瞧，事實是，我在這裡並不是說我想解僱任何人。我們對此非常清楚，因為我們很幸運能夠身處一個需求超過供應的行業和國家，我們擁有很長的跑道。

Frankly, even with -- since you mentioned about the fact that what I've spoken about in the annual report, apart from the singles and hitting into the boundaries, I've also mentioned that there are some exciting tech initiatives, which is underway, which I may spell it out not now. We -- I just gave a teaser in the annual report. But at the opportune time, which is just a few months away, we will unveil as to what we're talking about.

坦白說，即使——既然你提到我在年度報告中談到的事實，除了單打和突破界限之外，我還提到了一些正在進行中的令人興奮的技術舉措，我現在可能不會說出來。我們——我剛剛在年度報告中給了一個預告。但在適當的時候，也就是幾個月後，我們將會揭曉我們正在談論的內容。

It will have ramifications in the capacity, but that's not our primary objective. Our primary objective is customer experience. We are quite excited about how that is going to do about it. But even then, even at that point in time, what we foresee or what I foresee is that we will have employees, we will grow our resources, but it will be more and more in the front end, more probably in technology and less and less in the back-end operations or back-end enabling functions, whether it is operations, credit, other enabling functions of the bank.

這會對容量產生影響，但這不是我們的主要目標。我們的首要目標是客戶體驗。我們對其將如何發揮作用感到非常興奮。但即便如此，即使在那個時間點，我們預見到或我預見到的是，我們將擁有員工，我們將增加資源，但這些將越來越多地集中在前端，更可能集中在技術上，而越來越少地集中在後端運營或後端支援功能上，無論是運營、信貸還是銀行的其他支援功能。

So the way I see it is that we will have, going into the future, more and more people at the customer-facing and maybe revenue-generating. That is a vision that we have.

所以我認為，未來我們將有越來越多的人面向客戶並可能創造收入。這就是我們的願景。

So adding 4,000 in a quarter is just tactical in terms of, as Srini just mentioned, because we've had opening -- I don't know how many branches we opened in the fourth quarter, and we are just manning it now completely. These are all low-end employees which is necessary from a branch operations and sales perspective.

因此，正如 Srini 剛才提到的，在一個季度內增加 4,000 家分店只是戰術上的，因為我們已經開業了——我不知道我們在第四季度開設了多少家分店，我們現在正在全力投入運營。這些都是從分行營運和銷售角度來看必要的低階員工。

What was the second question --?

第二個問題是什麼--？

I think you answered the segment of growth, if any specific segment --

我認為你回答的是成長部分，如果有任何特定的部分--

No. That, I've just mentioned a few questions ago, Kunal. I mentioned about the fact that where we see pockets of opportunities in terms of some of the Rural segments; the MSME, some of the MSME segments; even Corporate, even though the rates are going to be very fine, but we still have -- now that we have liquidity, I think we will unlock some of it. And even Retail, even Urban REIT consumption, I believe that with the festive season coming up, we should see the premium segments also and unsecured segments moving up as well.

不。那個，我剛才提到了幾個問題，庫納爾。我提到過，我們在一些農村地區、一些中小微型企業領域、甚至企業領域看到了一些機會，儘管利率會非常低，但我們仍然有——現在我們有了流動性，我認為我們會釋放其中的一些機會。甚至零售業，甚至是城市房地產投資信託消費，我相信隨著節日的到來，我們應該會看到高端市場和無擔保市場的上漲。

Mortgages, pricing has been as -- like the Corporate side, the pricing has been rather fine, but we have our -- we still believe that we can compete there. And there are some pockets of opportunities that we are sizing up as we speak.

抵押貸款的定價與公司貸款一樣，定價相當不錯，但我們仍然相信我們可以在那裡競爭。我們正在評估一些機會。

Even in this quarter, we did see approximately 1,000 people migration from back office to front office to augment more part of the process of the migration.

即使在本季度，我們也確實看到大約 1,000 人從後台遷移到前台，以增強遷移過程的更多部分。

Okay. Got it. And lastly, with respect to margins, so maybe what would be the average duration of the deposits, maybe in ALM, maybe because of the CASA classification doesn't make it very clear. But if we look at maybe the average duration of deposits, the way wholesale deposits proportion is also inching up -- now, it's closer to almost 18%-odd -- when do we see NIMs of, say, Q4 level getting reached? Would it be by end of this fiscal? Or would it take time after the repricing is over and we see the benefit on deposits also flowing through, plus maybe the borrowings also getting repaid over a period?

好的。知道了。最後，關於保證金，存款的平均期限可能是多少，也許是在 ALM 中，也許是因為 CASA 分類沒有明確說明。但是，如果我們看一下存款的平均期限，批發存款的比例也在緩慢上升——現在，已經接近 18% 左右——我們什麼時候才能看到淨利差達到 Q4 水平呢？會是在本財年末嗎？或者重新定價結束後需要一段時間，我們才能看到存款的收益也流過來，也許借款也會在一段時間內償還？

I'll start on the deposits as such, right? See, we have a significant portion of our deposits, which are, call it, 12 to 18 months; call it, mid 15, 18 months, thereabouts. So that's the where you have it in the front and you have it in the back, but then the most of it is centered around that time period. That's very important.

我會開始進行這樣的存款，對嗎？你看，我們有相當一部分存款，期限是 12 至 18 個月；或者，期限是 15 至 18 個月左右。所以這就是你在前面看到的，在後面看到的，但大部分內容都集中在那個時間段。這非常重要。

So for the entire cost of funds to play out, it takes a few quarters. That means on renewal, on roles, that's where it plays out there. That's one.

因此，要使全部資金成本發揮作用，需要幾個季度的時間。這意味著在更新、在角色方面，它就發揮作用。那是一個。

From an overall margin, you asked whether by end of the year, yes, we'll have to -- it will take a few quarters. It depends on how fast and how much the rate changes. So that we'll have to wait and see and there is always that -- June was something that one didn't expect, that there will be a 50 basis points change in June.

從整體利潤率來看，您問到是否到今年年底，是的，我們必須—這將需要幾個季度。這取決於利率變化的速度和幅度。因此，我們必須拭目以待，而且總是會有這樣的事情發生——六月是一個人們沒有預料到的現象，六月會出現 50 個基點的變化。

And so these kind of things play out. So I will urge you not to look at quarter to quarter at all because that is not how we can manage because one, there are certain things on the asset side that will automatically reprice; and on the managed side, which is the deposits that we manage, there will be a lag effect, both from managing the pricing in of the policy change?

此類事情就這樣發生了。因此，我強烈建議您不要只專注於季度數據，因為這不是我們的管理方式，因為首先，資產方面的某些東西會自動重新定價；其次，在管理方面，也就是我們管理的存款，會存在滯後效應，這既來自於管理政策變化的定價，也來自於政策變化的定價？

The roles that happen, there is a timeframe to it. Yes, as we exit the year, there should be more stability if there is no more rate change, but then we will have to go through that process as time goes by as to what is going to happen in the forthcoming policy meeting, one or two meetings what happens.

角色的發生都有一個時間框架。是的，當我們即將結束這一年時，如果不再進行利率調整，那麼應該會更加穩定，但隨著時間的推移，我們將不得不經歷這個過程，看看即將召開的政策會議、一兩次會議將會發生什麼。

Rahul Jain, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的拉胡爾‧賈恩 (Rahul Jain)。

The first question is on the loan growth. Can you give some qualitative color on how would have been the growth in disbursals and new loans that you would have underwritten in this quarter? How is the pace picking up there?

第一個問題是關於貸款成長的。您能否定性地說明本季您所承保的支出和新貸款的成長情況？那裡的步伐如何加快？

And of course, there's always a time lag between the disbursement growth and the loan growth. So if you were to start looking out the next few quarters, how would that start looking out?

當然，支出成長和貸款成長之間總是存在一個時間差。那麼，如果您開始展望未來幾個季度，情況會是怎麼樣的呢？

Can you just share some color on that?

您能分享一些關於此的內容嗎？

Yeah. See, the disbursal growth in mortgages, if you see, is consciously down. The reason being that when there are certain institutions, particularly on the public sector side, which have a rate of anywhere 7.1%, 7.3% or thereabouts, we are not competing, right, at those kind of rates.

是的。你看，抵押貸款的支出成長正在大幅下降。原因在於，當某些機構，特別是公部門的機構，其利率達到 7.1%、7.3% 左右時，我們是無法在這樣的利率下競爭的。

We are more looking at rates which are 50 basis points, 80 basis points, more than that to provide where we provide better service and get a holistic relationship of the ability to have multiple products. We are okay to go slower there because that's what we want: the full relationship, not a product as such getting pushed at this size.

我們更關注的是 50 個基點、80 個基點甚至更高的利率，以便我們能夠提供更好的服務，並獲得擁有多種產品的整體關係。我們可以放慢速度，因為這就是我們想要的：完整的關係，而不是以這種規模推銷產品。

As it relates to non-mortgages, the disbursals have been quite strong. We are seeing that 9%-odd growth in the Retail assets year on year. And there are some seasonalities, agri season and so on and so forth plays out. But overall, those have been reasonably good there, within our, right -- we are not -- at 9.6% rate of growth, there is a far higher room to go up to our own standards of where we are used to growing on those books. That's on the loan growth.

就非抵押貸款而言，支出相當強勁。我們看到零售資產年增 9% 左右。還有一些季節性因素，如農業季節等等。但總體而言，這些都相當不錯，在我們的範圍內，對吧——我們沒有——在 9.6% 的增長率下，還有很大的空間可以達到我們自己習慣的成長標準。這是關於貸款增長的。

And so it's fair to assume that by the time we get into second and third quarter, the stock of loans should also start closing the gap in disbursement growth? And the disbursal growth has been stronger in non-mortgages, shouldn't it also reflect in stronger fee income? But this quarter, we didn't see fee income being that strong for some reason.

因此，我們可以合理地假設，到第二季和第三季時，貸款存量也應該開始縮小支出成長的差距？非抵押貸款的支出成長更為強勁，這不應該反映在費用收入的增加上嗎？但本季度，由於某種原因，我們的費用收入並不那麼強勁。

Yeah. See, fee income this quarter has been subdued to the third-party distribution fees, right? That's where it is lower. Typically, June quarter is lower than March quarter. But then, even March -- June versus June, the third-party distribution fees has been subdued.

是的。瞧，本季的費用收入已被第三方分銷費用所抑制，對嗎？那裡的水平較低。通常情況下，六月季度的銷售額低於三月季度的銷售額。但是，即使是 3 月至 6 月與 6 月相比，第三方分銷費用也一直處於低位。

And again, we believe it is timing through the year that this quarter, industry-wide, we did not see much of that third-party distribution fees coming through or distribution sales coming through; thereby, the fees. But the overall outlook for the full year in terms of the distribution remains quite optimistic and quite strong.

而且，我們認為，從全年來看，本季度，從整個行業來看，我們沒有看到太多的第三方分銷費用或分銷銷售額；因此，費用也是如此。但從分銷角度來看，全年整體前景仍然相當樂觀且強勁。

Okay. So disbursal growth and loan growth in second and third quarter should start getting similar? Is that a fair assumption in non-mortgage retail?

好的。那麼第二季和第三季的支出成長和貸款成長應該開始變得相似嗎？對於非抵押貸款零售業來說，這是一個合理的假設嗎？

No, that's -- I don't want to give one particular outlook, but then certainly, it depends. I think Sashi alluded to say that at the onset of the festival demand, we do expect a good amount of uptick there. We are positioning ourselves to take advantage of that coming through in the next few quarters.

不，那是——我不想給出一個特定的觀點，但當然，這取決於情況。我認為 Sashi 暗示說，在節日需求開始時，我們確實預計會大幅成長。我們正在做好準備，以利用未來幾季出現的優勢。

Got it. Just one last question and more a directional question on cost to income: ex treasury still, I think the math is 42% or thereabouts. Of course, it has improved versus last year despite the balance sheet reorg. But what's the sense we should get? Where would this number start to get towards in the next couple of quarters? Do we have visibility that goes down to below 40% because we are adding employees, we are adding branches, et cetera, and growth, of course, is a challenge? Or should there be a scope for it to improve and bring it down to below 40%? I'm putting a number there. I know you don't comment on the number, but still just to get some direction. Or that management would want to prioritize growth, so therefore, cost to income is not an immediate priority?

知道了。只剩下最後一個問題，也是關於成本收入的方向性問題：除去國庫，我認為計算結果是 42% 左右。當然，儘管資產負債表進行了重組，但與去年相比還是有所改善。但我們該得到什麼意義呢？在接下來的幾個季度裡，這個數字將會達到什麼程度？由於我們正在增加員工、增加分支機構等，我們的可見度是否會下降到 40% 以下，當然，成長是一個挑戰？或者是否應該有一個改進的空間，將其降至 40% 以下？我在這裡填了一個數字。我知道您不會對這個數字發表評論，但我仍然想得到一些指導。或者管理層希望優先考慮成長，因此成本收入並不是當務之急？

See, cost to income is always a priority even at the rate of growth that we aspire to do, even we are at a normalized rate of 39.6% or something. But having said that, I would say that quarter to quarter, certainly, is not something that we look at to manage because there will be times where there will be spend required to be supported that is -- let it be the card spend or let it be some of the festival spend and programs and marketing that needs to be supported -- so we'll not be shy of that where we need to do.

你看，即使我們預期的成長率是 39.6% 左右的正常成長率，成本收入比也始終是優先考慮的問題。但話雖如此，我想說的是，我們當然不會考慮按季度來管理，因為有時需要支持某些支出，例如信用卡支出，或者一些節日支出、項目和行銷需要支持，所以我們不會迴避需要做的事情。

You should look at an annual where we do. But certainly, yes, we envisage to take it down and keep improving on that.

你應該看看我們每年都會做的事情。但當然，是的，我們設想將其刪除並繼續改進。

Abhishek Murarka, HSBC.

匯豐銀行的 Abhishek Murarka。

Sashi, you said that there's a bit of a breather in CD ratio in the system and liquidity in response to one of the questions earlier. I just wanted to check from a CD ratio perspective, now where would the comfort zone lie?

Sashi，您在回答之前的問題時說，系統中的 CD 比率和流動性有所下降。我只是想從 CD 比率的角度檢查一下，舒適圈現在在哪裡？

Earlier, I believe it was somewhere between 85% and 90%. But now in the new scheme of things, better liquidity, system looking at growth revival, would you be comfortable with a relatively higher CD ratio?

之前，我認為這個比例在 85% 到 90% 之間。但現在，在新的情況下，流動性更好，系統著眼於成長復甦，您是否願意接受相對較高的 CD 比率？

See, I'm going to take that, Abhishek, from a CD ratio. We are at 95%, 96%, last quarter was 96%. We are at 95% thereabouts on CD ratio.

瞧，阿布舍克，我要從 CD 比率中得出這個數字。我們的比率是 95%、96%，上一季是 96%。我們的 CD 比率約為 95%。

While quarter to quarter, again, even for this year, it can be different. But in the medium term, we would envisage to get the CD ratio to be at the level we were prior to the merger, which was about 87%, 88%.

儘管每個季度的情況都不同，但今年的情況也可能有所不同。但從中期來看，我們預期 CD 比率將達到合併前的水平，即 87%、88% 左右。

So that is why between 85% and 90% is a range that in the medium term, we'll aspire to be there. And that naturally comes in when you have the deposit growth superior to the loan growth and you keep moving on, that will come.

因此，從中期來看，我們力求達到 85% 至 90% 之間的範圍。當存款成長超過貸款成長並且繼續前進時，這種情況自然就會出現。

That is all that FY26 grow in line with the system and FY27 grow faster on the loans versus the system gets you in the medium term to around those levels in course of time.

這就是 FY26 與系統同步成長，而 FY27 貸款成長速度比系統更快，讓你在中期內逐漸達到這些水準。

Yeah. Srini, the thought was that actually with now a little bit of leeway, if you target something a little higher than 87%, 90%, then you can actually grow a little faster as well and use all the deposits that are coming in because at a headline level, you all are getting great deposit market share incrementally.

是的。Srini，我們的想法是，實際上現在有了一點迴旋餘地，如果你的目標是略高於 87%、90%，那麼你實際上也可以增長得更快一些，並使用所有流入的存款，因為從總體上看，你們都在逐步獲得巨大的存款市場份額。

So that's what I was thinking: that is that an opportunity now.

所以我當時就是這麼想的：這就是現在的一個機會。

Yeah. Theoretically, I agree with you, Abhishek. But as I said, it will have a certain amount of gradient. That's the thought process. I think we are in that kind of -- we are aligned to that kind of a thought process.

是的。從理論上講，我同意你的觀點，阿布舍克。但正如我所說，它會有一定的梯度。這就是思考過程。我認為我們正處於那種——我們與那種思考過程一致。

But obviously, we need to also see appropriate demand at appropriate pricing and appropriate risk premium as well. So it's something that we have to manage all these aspects as we move along.

但顯然，我們還需要看到適當的定價和適當的風險溢價的適當需求。因此，我們必須在前進的過程中管理好所有這些面向。

But I think we are all geared up to ensure that we don't miss our opportunities. And yes, if we need to have a direction downwards but not necessarily be tied down to a particular CD ratio number, we are going to be happy to do so.

但我認為我們都已做好準備，確保不會錯失良機。是的，如果我們需要有一個向下的方向，但不一定受限於特定的 CD 比率數字，我們會很樂意這樣做。

But that clarity will come about as we move to the second half of the year because, as you know, whether in any year and more so in this particular fiscal, I think a large part of your growth will come in from the second half and probably more, gearing towards the fourth quarter of this year.

但隨著我們進入下半年，這種明朗性就會顯現出來，因為如你所知，無論是在任何一年，尤其是在這個特定的財政年度，我認為你的很大一部分增長將來自下半年，甚至可能更多，面向今年第四季度。

So at that point in time, I think there will be enough clarity for all of us. But in the meantime, we are ensuring that the engine is gearing up towards a trajectory which is what we have stated up. And whether it is disbursals, whether it is across multiple segments, whether it is re-examining the market opportunities or the competitive intensity and trying to see how we can -- now that we have liquidity, how to bat on the front foot, I think we will be doing that, and that will be very visible to the world at large.

所以到那時，我認為我們所有人都會有足夠的清晰認知。但同時，我們正在確保引擎朝著我們已經陳述的軌跡加速運轉。無論是支出，還是跨多個細分市場，無論是重新審視市場機會還是競爭強度，並試圖了解我們如何能夠——現在我們擁有了流動性，如何搶佔先機，我認為我們會這樣做，而且這對全世界來說都是非常明顯的。

Sure. That sounds good, Sashi. The second question is on this contingent provision of INR1,700 crore. This was a little over and above the -- whatever you use the windfall gain for. So is this specific to some account? Or is there some policy that drives you to make -- or that drove you to make this additional provision? What was the reason to make the additional INR1,700 crore provision?

當然。聽起來不錯，Sashi。第二個問題是關於這筆 170 億印度盧比的緊急準備金。這有點超出了——無論你用這筆意外之財做什麼。那麼這是否特定於某個帳戶？或是有什麼政策促使您做出這個額外規定？額外撥付 170 億印度盧比的原因是什麼？

Okay. Abhishek, you should look at what is contingent provision, right? As the name suggests, it's contingent on occurrence or non-occurrence of certain events, right? And this does not represent any uniquely observed changes in the portfolio.

好的。Abhishek，你應該看看什麼是附帶準備金，對嗎？顧名思義，它取決於某些事件的發生或不發生，對嗎？這並不代表投資組合中觀察到的任何獨特變化。

These provisions run through models on various pools of assets under certain probability scenarios, stressing various factors, right? It is intended to provide resiliency and essentially, strong reserving position now and for the future.

這些規定是在一定的機率情境下對各種資產池進行模型化的，強調各種因素，對嗎？其目的是為現在和將來提供彈性和本質上強大的儲備地位。

We were at 51 basis points prior to this. Now, the contingent provision is about 57 basis points of the loans portfolio. So it is done at kind of various levels. Pools of assets runs through various probability models and then, that's the reserving that we did.

在此之前，我們的利率為 51 個基點。目前，或有準備金約佔貸款組合的57個基點。所以它是在各種不同的層面上完成的。資產池經過各種機率模型，然後，這就是我們所做的儲備。

Perfect. And finally, can you give some color on asset quality and outlook on asset quality in PL, CC, unsecured retail? Just an update compared to last quarter, now what you're seeing and how that has moved (multiple speakers) --

完美的。最後，您能否對 PL、CC 和無擔保零售的資產品質和資產品質前景進行一些介紹？與上一季相比，這只是一個更新，現在你看到了什麼，以及發生了什麼變化（多位發言者）——

Whilst Srini may probably give some numbers, if at all he does, but I can tell you that that continues to be our greatest, what should I say, our USP. I reiterate that ex agri because agri is more cyclical in nature, which you see a little bit of a blip in the first quarter and the third quarter. It continues to be extremely benign, whether it's gross NPA levels or even in terms of the credit cost.

儘管 Srini 可能會給出一些數字（如果他真的這麼做的話），但我可以告訴你，這仍然是我們最大的，或者說，我們的 USP。我重申農業除外，因為農業本質上更具週期性，你會在第一季和第三季看到一點波動。無論是不良資產總額水平，或是信貸成本，情況都依然十分溫和。

If you look at the credit cost ex agri also, sequentially, it's been pretty much stable. So we are extremely happy.

如果您看一下農業以外的信貸成本，那麼按順序來看，它一直相當穩定。所以我們非常高興。

And even the outlook, as Srini just mentioned, is pretty much benign. And so even the so-called countercyclical buffer or the contingent provisions has no correlation to any pain points that we are likely to have. Virtually, there's none.

正如 Srini 剛才提到的，前景也相當樂觀。因此，即使是所謂的逆週期緩衝或緊急準備金也與我們可能遇到的任何痛點沒有任何關聯。事實上，沒有。

It is just building resilience into the future. And that's been a philosophy that we have been patronizing for a long period of time. I think this is something that we are proud of.

這只是為未來建立復原力。這是我們長期以來秉持的理念。我想這是我們值得驕傲的事。

On the particular number, if you look at the NPA on the Retail segment, excluding agri, it's at about 82 basis points. Last year same time, it was 82 basis points. So it's been pretty steady at that level. So over a year, 82 basis points, that's the GNPA on the retail segment, which contains cards, PL, and all of those products other than agri.

就具體數字而言，如果你查看零售部門（不包括農業）的不良資產 (NPA)，它約為 82 個基點。去年同期為82個基點。所以在這個水平上它一直相當穩定。因此，一年下來，82 個基點就是零售領域的 GNPA，其中包括卡片、PL 以及除農產品之外的所有其他產品。

Right. So essentially, you're saying there's no real stress and it's stable, the asset quality there is stable?

正確的。所以從本質上來說，您是說那裡沒有真正的壓力，而且穩定，資產品質穩定？

Exactly.

確切地。

Chintan, Autonomous.

Chintan，自治。

Can I ask you a couple of detailed questions from your 20-F. The first one is, last quarter, you had said that you have about INR500 billion of expensive erstwhile limited debt that will mature in 2026. In your 20-F, your long-term debt maturity for 2026 is about INR1.5 trillion. I wanted to understand what that other [INR 1 trillion] in terms of cost or duration and what the opportunity is there in that INR 1 trillion, so excluding the e-limited debt? So that's the first one. And within that also, how do hedges play a role in helping you offset the NIM pressures?

我可以根據你的 20-F 問你幾個詳細的問題嗎？第一個問題是，上個季度，您曾說過，您有大約 5000 億印度盧比昂貴的有限債務將於 2026 年到期。在您的 20-F 中，您 2026 年到期的長期債務約為 1.5 兆印度盧比。我想了解另外的 [1 兆印度盧比] 在成本或期限方面是什麼，以及這 1 兆印度盧比中存在什麼機會（不包括電子有限債務）？這是第一個。那麼，對沖如何幫助您抵消 NIM 壓力呢？

The second question I have is on PSL. If I look at the achievement rates, it has come down year on year, probably because of the one-third base being added from HDFC Limited. If I think about another one-third coming next year, there is some rolling shortfall building up in certain areas. How should investors think about this? Would RBI make a call on this at some point and then it is what it is?

我的第二個問題是關於 PSL 的。如果我看一下完成率，它逐年下降，可能是因為 HDFC 有限公司增加了三分之一的基礎。如果我考慮到明年還會有三分之一，那麼某些領域就會出現一些滾動缺口。投資人該如何看待此事？印度儲備銀行會在某個時候對此做出決定，然後事情就會變成這樣嗎？

Or can we prudently put something in our expectations on NIMs on that call? How should we think about it?

或者我們可以謹慎地在該電話會議上對 NIM 做出一些預期嗎？我們該如何思考這個問題？

So Chintan, that 20-F is a consolidation of all the subsidiaries. So it's not really -- if you look at any numbers there and try and look at that from a standalone, it's not going to really make sense. I would encourage that you don't try to find data points from a bank perspective in there, it's not going to be able to match it, and it's a completely different accounting standard as well.

所以 Chintan，20-F 是所有子公司的合併。所以事實並非如此——如果你查看那裡的任何數字並嘗試從獨立的角度來看待它，它實際上沒有任何意義。我建議您不要嘗試從銀行的角度尋找數據點，因為它無法匹配，而且它也是一個完全不同的會計準則。

We'll pick it up offline to see where we can -- how do we get there on that.

我們將離線進行研究，看看我們能做到什麼程度——我們如何實現這一目標。

All the subsidiaries are added in that.

所有子公司均已加入此。

Color on kind of non-e-limited borrowings, any opportunities there to do any liability management exercises or something that can help you reduce your cost of funds there?

對於非電子限制借款，有沒有什麼機會進行負債管理練習或可以幫助您降低資金成本的事情？

If you see the borrowings that we do give a break-up, we constantly have something which comes up for maturity, which we have done. Last year, we did have some opportunity to prepay or try and advance some maturities, which we have taken through. We'll keep looking for this.

如果您看到我們確實對借款進行了拆分，我們就會不斷有一些需要到期的債務，我們已經這樣做了。去年，我們確實有一些機會可以預付或嘗試提前償還一些到期債務，我們也已經利用了這些機會。我們會繼續尋找這個。

As and when they are available, we'll do that. But given the rates where they are in the market, these opportunities may not necessarily be as much in this current year is the way we think about it.

只要有空，我們就會這麼做。但考慮到它們在市場上的利率，我們認為今年這些機會可能不多。

And a little two bits on this one, Chintan. Even if there are opportunities, you have to take a fair value hit, if at all, there are any early redemptions of some of these long-term debt as well. So that is something that you need to factor in.

關於這一點，還有兩點，Chintan。即使有機會，你也必須承擔公允價值的打擊，如果有的話，這些長期債務也會提前贖回。所以這是你需要考慮的因素。

But if I were an investor, why would I even want to do that if I'm holding a very attractive coupon on the other side. That's reality, and that's what some of the investors have been saying.

但如果我是投資者，如果我手上拿著一張非常有吸引力的優惠券，我為什麼還要這麼做？這就是現實，也是一些投資人所說的。

I'm happy not to keep holding it to maturity. This is -- so sometimes whilst on paper, I would love to do that, but in practice and in reality, there are very few takers on such early redemptions as well.

我很高興不用一直持有它直到成熟。這是——所以有時候雖然從理論上講我很想這麼做，但在實踐中，現實中，接受這種提前贖回的人也非常少。

On the PSL, you touched upon the PSL. Yes, PSL is an active management book in terms of how we have. We have -- at the aggregate level, the target is [40]. And if we are more than 40, we try to see how to get it to 40.

關於 PSL，您提到了 PSL。是的，就我們的經營方式而言，PSL 是一本積極的管理書。我們的目標是[40]。如果超過 40，我們會嘗試如何將其降至 40。

There's always a buy and sell on the PSLC that happens for actively managing. And again, with the market availability, not that every year, it provides an opportunity, but yes, I think you're referring to the annual report or the PSL status of FY25 status.

對於積極管理而言，PSLC 上總是存在著買賣。再說一次，由於市場供應情況，並不是每年都提供機會，但是是的，我認為您指的是年度報告或 FY25 狀態的 PSL 狀態。

Yes, there were sales also which exceeded the buy in the year because we were at the aggregate level. We always --

是的，由於我們處於總體水平，因此當年的銷售額也超過了購買量。我們始終--

Even as we speak, I think we are reasonably comfortable at the overall price portfolio despite adding one-third of the -- a portion of erstwhile HDFC Limited's balance sheet.

就在我們說話的時候，我認為儘管增加了三分之一——原 HDFC 有限公司資產負債表的一部分，我們對整體價格組合還是相當滿意的。

The only thing we always look for to get is the small and marginal farmer and the micro segment, which is much more dearer, even availability is limited in the market. But we are not aware of any regulation change that provides really for an opportunity space, we don't know.

我們始終尋求獲得的唯一東西是小農戶和邊際農戶以及微型細分市場，這些市場更加昂貴，即使市場上的供應有限。但我們不知道有任何法規變化能夠真正提供機會空間，我們不知道。

But yes, those two segments are here at all the time. And even the last year that you referred to, we were about 1 percentage point or so looking for (multiple speakers ) --

但是的，這兩個部分一直都在這裡。甚至在你提到的去年，我們也只尋求了大約 1 個百分點（多位發言者）——

Okay. And can I slip in one more? Will 2Q be the trough of NIMs for the bank, given that a lot of the asset repricing will come through by 2Q?

好的。我可以再加一個嗎？鑑於大量資產重新定價將在第二季完成，第二季是否會成為該銀行淨利差的低谷？

Chintan, it will depend on if there's another rate cut coming or not in the year. We have no idea (multiple speakers) --

Chintan，這將取決於今年是否會再次降息。我們不知道（多位發言者）——

Yes, assuming no more rate cuts.

是的，假設不再降息。

And you should expect that to happen subject to repricing on the liability side, which should come through. So logically, yes, but there are a lot of other people on the call, we don't want to give a guidance of any form or manner because there have been a lot of moving parts in there.

並且您應該預料到這種情況會隨著負債方面的重新定價而發生，而這應該會發生。所以從邏輯上來說，是的，但是電話中還有很多其他人，我們不想給出任何形式或方式的指導，因為其中有很多活動部件。

See, the deposit cost is a managed deposit cost. The deposit costs do not reflect yet fully pricing in of the policy rate change. Know that the deposit pricing, particularly I'm talking about the time deposit, savings also it is the same; but for a good amount, the time deposit pricing is, more or less, maintains parity across various peer players in the system.

瞧，存款成本就是管理存款成本。存款成本尚未完全反映政策利率變動的定價。要知道，存款定價，特別是我所說的定期存款，儲蓄也是一樣的；但對於相當數量的存款，定期存款定價或多或少在系統中的各個同行參與者之間保持平價。

So it is not just about one moving. You'll have to see whether the cohorts are moving.

所以這不僅僅是一個人搬家的問題。你必須觀察隊伍是否在移動。

Having said that, I sort of mentioned in the past, liabilities are more fixed in nature. So even incrementally, we start -- if our incremental liabilities come in at a lesser price than the stock, it takes a long time for the stock to run off. The modified duration will be about 1 year or 1.3 years. So you have to wait for that.

話雖如此，我過去曾提到過，負債的性質更加固定。因此，即使我們開始逐步增加負債——如果我們的增量負債價格低於股票價格，那麼股票也需要很長時間才能耗盡。修改後的期限約為1年或1.3年。所以你必須等待。

And that is the reason why you will -- and rightfully, that's what even you have alluded to, you will have a little bit of a trough, all things remaining same, assuming no incremental changes, a little bit of a trough in the coming months before it starts to pick up and stabilize to the -- where the liability benefits also -- catch up with the transmission that has already happened on the asset side.

這就是為什麼你會 — — 沒錯，這就是你所暗示的，你會經歷一段低谷期，所有的事情都保持不變，假設沒有漸進式的變化，在接下來的幾個月裡，它會開始回升並穩定下來 — — 負債也會受益 — — 趕上資產方面已經發生的傳導。

Also, look at these things in the annually, not quarterly --

另外，要以年度而不是季度來看待這些事情--

Which is what you've been mentioning --

這就是你提到的--

Even in your last earnings call, yes.

即使在你上次的收益電話會議上，答案也是肯定的。

Piran Engineer, CLSA India.

里昂證券印度分公司 Piran 工程師。

Team, congrats on the strong results. Most of my questions are answered. Just a couple of follow-ups.

團隊，恭喜你們取得的優異成績。我的大部分問題都得到了答案。僅需幾個後續行動。

Firstly, Srini, when you mentioned that credit costs will normalize, it's a matter of when and not if, I'm just thinking which segments will result in this normalization because Corporate isn't likely to worsen, Secured Retail is fine and Unsecured will only get better. So why should we assume that credit costs rise in future?

首先，Srini，當您提到信貸成本將會正常化時，這只是一個時間問題，而不是是否會發生的問題，我只是在想哪些部分會導致這種正常化，因為企業不太可能惡化，有擔保零售很好，無擔保只會變得更好。那我們為什麼要假設未來信貸成本會上升呢？

No. Again, it's a question of -- the overall credit cost in the industry out of the bank remains pretty low. When I say reversion to mean, it is simply a statistical model. That is why I do not know how much, right?

不。再一次，問題是──銀行業的整體信貸成本仍然很低。當我說均值回歸時，它只是一個統計模型。這就是為什麼我不知道有多少，對嗎？

But if you ask our credit experts, like our Chief Credit Officer, which I think he's alluded to a couple of quarters ago in one of those investor calls that, yes, across all the segments, it has been pretty good and benign.

但如果你問我們的信貸專家，例如我們的首席信貸官，我想他在幾個季度前的一次投資者電話會議上提到過，是的，在所有領域，情況都相當良好和溫和。

It started maybe a year ago in the lower segment like the Microfinance, I'm talking about the industry, it started around that. And then, it did not find its way into the other segments like Retail segment, SME segment, Wholesale segment and so on so again, that is a question of when, right? It's not something that just moved from one on a quarterly basis or a two-quarter basis, it starts to move across.

它可能在一年前開始出現在小額信貸等較低領域，我說的是產業，它就是圍繞著這個領域開始的。然後，它沒有進入其他領域，如零售領域、中小企業領域、批發領域等等，所以這又是一個時間問題，對吧？它並不是每季或每兩季就會發生一次變化，而是開始跨越變化。

So it depends on when it does. And -- but across all segments, there will be some kind of a reversion to mean.

所以這取決於何時發生。並且——但在所有領域，都會出現某種形式的均值回歸。

But there's nothing on the horizon, at least in the foreseeable future that we see, right?

但至少在可預見的未來，地平線上什麼都沒有，對嗎？

No, no, no.

不，不，不。

Okay. Okay. That's good.

好的。好的。那挺好的。

And just secondly, in terms of fixed rate lending products like car loans, personal loans, et cetera, how much have we and our competitors cut incremental disbursement interest rates by?

其次，就汽車貸款、個人貸款等固定利率貸款產品而言，我們和我們的競爭對手將增量支付利率降低了多少？

Piran, it will be difficult to gauge that, right, because different -- there's a large segment there and different players play in a different rate. So it's very difficult to gauge what if everybody has cut and not.

皮蘭，這很難衡量，對吧，因為不同——那裡有很大一部分，不同的參與者以不同的速度參與。因此，很難判斷如果每個人都削減了或沒有削減，結果會怎麼樣。

First quarter is, any which way, a bit slower. If anything, you'll find some of the competition playing out as the festive season picks up in the next quarter.

無論如何，第一季都有些慢。無論如何，隨著下一季節日季節的到來，你會發現一些競爭正在加劇。

Thank you, all. Thank you very much.

謝謝大家。非常感謝。

Participants, we have come to an end of the time allotted for the call.

各位與會者，本次通話的時間已到結束。

I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vaidyanathan for closing comments.

現在我想將會議交給 Vaidyanathan 先生作最後發言。

Okay. Thank you, all, for participating today.

好的。謝謝大家今天的參與。

If you have any more questions, queries, comments, or whatever you need to talk, please reach out to our Investor Relations team, which you are anyway used to reaching out if required, we'll be happy to engage and talk.

如果您還有其他問題、疑問、意見或任何需要討論的內容，請聯絡我們的投資人關係團隊，如果需要，您可以隨時聯絡我們，我們很樂意與您溝通。

Thank you. Bye-bye.

謝謝。再見。

Thank you all. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

謝謝大家。非常感謝。再見。

Thank you very much. On behalf of HDFC Bank Limited, that concludes this conference.

非常感謝。我代表 HDFC 銀行股份有限公司結束本次會議。

Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

感謝您加入我們。現在您可以斷開線路了。謝謝。