台灣國際航電 (GRMN) 2015 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Garmin Ltd.'s fourth-quarter 2015 earnings conference call.

(Operator Instructions)

I would now like to introduce your first speaker for today, Teri Seck, Manager of Investor Relations.

You have the floor, ma'am.

Good morning.

We would like to welcome you to Garmin Ltd.'s fourth-quarter 2015 earnings call.

Please note that the earnings press release and related slides are available at Garmin's Investor Relations site on the internet at www.garmin.com/stock.

An archive of the webcast and related transcript will also be available on our website.

This earnings call includes projections and other forward-looking statements regarding Garmin Ltd.

and its business.

Any statements regarding our future financial position, revenues, earnings, market shares, product introductions, future demand for our products and objectives, are forward-looking statements.

The forward-looking events and circumstances discussed in this earnings call may not occur and actual results could differ materially as a result of risk factors affecting Garmin.

Information concerning these risk factors is contained in our form 10-K, which will be filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission later today.

Presenting on behalf of Garmin Ltd.

this morning are Cliff Pemble, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Doug Boessen, Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer.

At this time I would like to turn the call over to Cliff Pemble.

Thank you, Teri, and good morning, everyone.

As announced earlier today, Garmin reported fourth-quarter revenue of $781 million, representing a 3% decline year over year.

While our revenue trends are impacted by the ongoing secular decline of the PND market, I'm pleased to report that the aviation, fitness, marine, and outdoor segments, as a group, grew 11% year over year and contributed 66% of total revenues.

This growth and diversification of our revenue base is a direct result of the investments we have made in our business over the past few years.

Gross margin was 52.9%, ahead of our expectations, but down slightly year over year, driven primarily by the competitive dynamics in our fitness segment.

Operating margin declined to 18.7%, as we continued to invest in engineering and advertising.

These factors, offset by a lower-than-anticipated effective tax rate, resulted in pro forma EPS of $0.74 in the quarter.

Looking briefly at our full-year performance, we reported revenue of $2.8 billion, a 2% decline year over year, driven mainly by global currency shifts that created significant revenue and margin headwinds.

Despite these headwinds, the aviation, fitness, marine, and outdoor segments grew 9% on a combined basis, contributing nearly $1.8 billion in revenue for the year, or 63% of the total, and generating 75% of our operating income.

Gross and operating margins of 54.6% and 19.5%, respectively, were down compared to 2014, but exceeded our expectations in a difficult global economy.

Unit deliveries increased to 7% for the year, to 16.2 million.

Doug will discuss financial results in greater detail in a few minutes, but first I'll provide a few comments on each business segment.

Beginning with the fitness segment, revenue for the year grew 16%, driven by growth in activity trackers.

Gross and operating margins were 55% and 20%, respectively.

Gross margin was impacted by the competitive dynamics in the market, while operating margin was further impacted by ongoing investments in advertising and engineering.

We believe these investments are strategically important in order to maximize the long-term opportunity in the fitness market.

In 2015, we introduced Garmin Elevate wrist heart rate technology into our running and activity tracker product lines, and we made significant enhancements to Garmin Connect mobile.

These developments have strengthen our position in the market, and positively impacted our results for the year.

In 2016 we are targeting revenue growth of approximately 10% in the fitness segment.

New product introductions play a key role in our growth assumptions.

Looking at outdoor, revenue declined 1% year over year as economic and geopolitical issues impacted sales of our core product categories.

This weakness was partially offset by the strength in the outdoor wearable category.

The outdoor segment continued to generate strong gross and operating margins of 61% and 33%, respectively.

This represents a slight decline compared to 2014 due to product mix and additional investments in engineering and advertising to support new product launches.

In 2016, we expect revenue growth of approximately 10%, which includes anticipated contributions from PulsedLight and the pending acquisition of DeLorme.

We anticipate that the wearable category will continue to be strong in 2016, driven by the new fenix 3 HR with wrist heart rate.

In addition we expect to benefit from new product introductions across other categories.

Turning next to aviation, we reported year-over-year revenue growth of 3%, which exceeded our expectations in the midst of an industry decline of 5% as reported by the General Aviation Manufacturers Association.

Gross and operating margin remained strong at 74% and 28 %, respectively.

In the fourth quarter, the G3000 equipped Honda jet became the latest aircraft to receive FAA certification, bringing the total to 64 aircraft platforms certified with a Garmin integrated cockpit.

In 2016, we are targeting revenue growth of approximately 5% in the aviation segment.

While industry dynamics remain a factor, market share gains and new platforms provide opportunities for growth.

Looking next at the marine segment, we reported year-over-year revenue growth of 15%, driven by strong sales of new products.

Gross margin improved to 55%, while operating margin was down slightly to 10%, due to litigation related costs.

However, operating income grew 9% for the year, due to stronger revenue and gross margin.

For 2016, we are targeting revenue growth of approximately 10% in the marine segment, driven by new product introductions.

We believe our product lineup is very strong as we enter the marine season and we look forward to another year of growth in 2016.

Looking finally at the auto segment, revenues were down 15% for the full year as expected due to the ongoing decline of PND market.

Gross and operating margins were 44% and 13%, respectively, and our global market share remains very strong.

During the year, our presence at Honda expanded and now includes their Pilot, Accord, Civic and CRV models.

Additionally, our presence at Mercedes recently expanded and now includes their C and E class models.

Looking at 2016, we expect revenue to decline approximately 15%, driven primarily by ongoing declines in the PND market.

We remain focused on disciplined execution in order to bring desired innovation to the market and to maximize profitability in this segment.

I want to highlight one other matter regarding action cameras.

As of 2016, we have reclassified our action camera product line from the outdoor segment into the auto segment.

We believe this change will enhance the alignment of our engineering, marketing, and sales resources.

Going forward, segment results will be adjusted to reflect this change.

So in summary, we see many opportunities ahead in 2016.

However, the macroeconomic challenges we faced in 2015 remain part of the operating environment.

With this in mind, we are projecting revenue of approximately $2.82 billion, which is flat year over year, and study gross margin of approximately 54.5%.

We are projecting operating income of approximately $510 million, with operating margins of approximately 18%.

Factoring in an effective tax rate of approximately 20.5%, pro forma earnings per share is expected to be approximately $2.25, which includes a $0.05 negative impact related to acquisition.

That concludes my remarks.

Next, Doug will walk you through additional details of our financial results.

Doug?

Thanks, Cliff.

Good morning, everyone.

I'd like to begin by reviewing our fourth-quarter and full-year financial results, then move to comments on the balance sheet, cash flow statement and taxes.

Revenue of $781 million for the fourth quarter, representing a 3% decrease year over year.

Gross margin was 52.9%, a 70 basis point decrease from the prior year, driven by the increased competitive pricing in the fitness segment.

Operating income was $146 million.

Operating margin was 18.7%, a decrease of 320 basis points from the prior year.

This is the result of both a decline in the gross margin rate and operating expense growth of 5%, or $12 million, driven by litigation related costs, an increased spending in advertising, and research and development.

The pro forma effective tax rate of 13%.

Pro forma EPS was $0.74.

Looking at full-year results, we posted revenue of $2.82 billion for the year, representing a 2% decrease year over year.

Gross margin was 54.6%, a 130 basis point decrease from the prior year.

Operating income was $550 million, compared to $691 million in 2014.

Operating margin was 19.5%, a decrease of 460 basis points from the prior year, driven by both gross margin declines and increased operating expenses.

Pro forma effective tax rate increased to approximately 20% for full year 2015, compared to approximately 17% in 2014.

Pro forma EPS was $2.49, a 20% decrease year over year.

We'll discuss gross margin, operating expenses, effective tax rate, in more detail later.

Next, we'll look at fourth-quarter and full-year revenue by segment.

During the fourth quarter, we experienced growth in four of our five segments, led by fitness, with 14% growth, and aviation with 12% growth.

Collectively, these four segments were up 11%, compared to their prior-year quarter.

For the full year 2015, we experienced growth in three of our five segments, led by fitness, with 16% growth, and marine, with 15% growth.

Looking at fourth-quarter revenue charts on this page, the auto segment represented 35% of our total fourth-quarter 2015 revenue compared to 42% in fourth quarter of 2014.

Fitness grew to 29% of revenue in the current period compared to 25% in the prior year.

As you can see from the charts to illustrate profitability mix by segment, outdoor, fitness, marine, and aviation collectively, delivered 75% of operating income in the fourth quarter of 2015 compared to 68% in the fourth quarter of 2014.

Drilling down year-over-year gross margin by segment, both aviation and marine posted gross margin rate increases due to product mix.

Fitness gross margin rate was lower due to competitive pricing dynamics and product mix.

Looking at full-year metrics, for the full year, the non-auto segments made up 62% total revenue, compared to 57% 2014.

The similar shift occurred in operating income, with 75% of our 2015 operating income collectively coming from outdoor, fitness, marine, and aviation segments, compared to 69% 2014.

Looking next at operating expenses, as previously mentioned, fourth-quarter operating expenses increased by $12 million, or 5%.

This was a 250 basis point increase as a percent of sales.

Research and development increased $4 million year over year, or 90 basis points, 13.6% of sales.

We continue to invest in innovation with increasing resources focused primarily on aviation, fitness, outdoor and marine, where we see long-term growth opportunities.

Our advertising expense increased $3 million over the prior-year quarter, represented 7.3% of sales, 50 basis point increase.

Additional spending was primarily in the fitness segment, a near-term focus on market share growth in wearables.

SG&A was up $5 million compared to the prior quarter, increasing 100 basis points percent of sales to 13.4%.

Increased spending SG&A was driven primarily by litigation-related costs and IT expenses.

A few highlights on the balance sheet and cash flow statement.

We ended the quarter with cash, marketable securities about $2.4 billion.

Accounts receivable increase sequentially due to the holiday quarter and was down year over year to $531 million.

Our inventory balance increased year over year $501 million as we grew our product offerings and continue to maintain an adequate supply of raw materials or safety stock.

During the fourth quarter of 2015, we generated free cash flow of $131 million.

Also in the quarter, we paid dividends of $97 million, repurchased $23 million of Company stock, with $160 million remaining for purchase through December 2016.

With our dividend, stock repurchase activity during 2015 we turned $509 million of cash to our shareholders.

As I previously mentioned, our effective tax rate decreased to 13% in the current quarter, compared to a pro forma tax rate of 19% in the fourth quarter of 2014.

The lower tax rate was primarily a result of income mix by tax jurisdiction, which is positively impacted by the increase in actual full-year taxable income compared to previous projections and the resulting catch-up benefit for the first three quarters of 2015.

Consistent with prior year, fourth-quarter tax rate include the full-year impact of the R&D tax credit.

Our full-year pro forma effective tax rate increased from 17% 2014 to 20% 2015, primarily due to income mix by tax jurisdiction.

I expect our full-year tax rate for 2016 to be approximately 20.5%.

We announced this morning that we plan to seek shareholder approval for a dividend of $2.04 per share, payable in four installments of $0.51 per share per quarter, beginning with the June 2016 calendar quarter.

As Cliff mentioned, the beginning of 2016 we will recast action camera sales expenses from our outdoor segment to our auto segment.

As such, we'll provide a supplemental schedule to help assist in updating your models.

A link to this schedule can be found within the appendix in today's webcast.

This is concludes our formal remarks.

Andrew, can you please open the line for Q&A?

(Operator Instructions)

Simona Jankowski, Goldman Sachs.

Hi.

Thank you very much.

First of all, just in terms of the 10% growth in outdoor that you are expecting, how much of that is organic versus the contribution from M&A?

And then just a follow-up, I wanted to get a sense for your thought process on OpEx and marketing expense into this year, relative to last year.

Some of the fitness growth initiatives have not played out quite as expected, so just curious if you are considering pulling back on that a bit.

Yes.

Simona, in terms of the contributions from acquisitions, we don't break it out in detail but a big portion of the growth in outdoor is the acquisitions and then some organic growth on top of that.

In terms of the OpEx, we're looking at 2016 relatively conservatively.

We do have expenses that we incurred in partial year of 2015 that rolled to a full year of 2016, so that drives some of the increase and then we have targeted investments in key areas where we see opportunities for growth.

Thank you.

Ben Bollin, Cleveland Research.

Thanks.

Good morning.

When you look at the different product segments, how are you thinking about the gross margin trajectory on a look-forward basis, relative to what you've seen over the last couple of years?

I think the biggest dynamic, Ben, is the changes in the fitness market due to the competitive dynamics and the expansion of the overall market, so that's one that's driving lower from where it's traditionally been.

I would say that the other segments are pretty much on trajectory from where they've been.

But keep in mind, we did see some change in the past year due to the currency issue and that will take some time to stabilize in terms of our ability to go back up as we introduce new products and new margin structures into the market.

When you look at your OpEx performance, or your guidance when you're thinking about OpEx in 2016, the implied OpEx figure looks basically flat to up in 2016 versus 2015.

Last year I think you grew about $100 million year on year.

In 2014, you grew it about $80 million year on year.

Is that how we should think about the model going forward?

You kind of made your heavy lifting, it's done, and now you're getting back to steady-state or is this kind of a pause year for you?

Well, it's hard to look too far down the road because we don't know what additional things we'll encounter in the markets, but in terms of your observations around the previous years, yes, we did ramp up substantially in those years, both in terms of our advertising spend as well as engineering spend, as we launched new categories.

We're looking at 2016 as being somewhat of a stabilizing year because we feel like the levels that we're at, in particularly the advertising area, is something that we can work well with in the coming year.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Paul Coster, JPMorgan.

Yes.

Thanks for taking my question.

The PND segment obviously continues to be a weight on growth, but it's now declining to the point where I imagine it's easier to start thinking about restructuring that segment and sort of liberating the overall Company from that wall, perhaps culling some of the product lineup.

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are terms of the positioning of the PND segment, whether your prepared to yield part of that market in order to focus on profitability and growth moving forward?

Well, the PND market is still a significant generator of revenue and profits and we feel like the market is in a manageable state in terms of its overall development.

Our market share is very strong on a global basis.

We believe we're the market leader on a global basis so we really don't see any significant changes that we plan to make in terms of our approach to the market in the coming year.

Okay.

I think I've (technical difficulty) when you think that market might stabilize so I don't see why this call should be any different.

Any thoughts there?

It's a mixed story around the world.

Some countries and some markets, as you know, have shown signs of stabilization while others have continued to decline, so it's still a dynamic situation.

Okay.

Last question.

The ad spending that we've seen recently, is it a sort of one-sign deal or do believe that you've now sort of established a new run rate in terms of your ad allocation?

I think for the time being, we feel like we've established a run rate that we are comfortable with and will continue to evaluate as market conditions evolve.

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

James Faucette, Morgan Stanley.

Hi.

Thanks.

James Faucette hear from Morgan Stanley.

Quick questions on both what you saw in 2015 and in the fourth quarter geographically.

It looked like the US and Europe was down whereas Asia Pac was quite strong.

I'm wondering if you can give a little bit of at least segment color where it's notable for those different regions.

Just trying to determine kind of what was driving the difference in the performance there.

And then how you're thinking about the respective segments in 2016 in those geographies and things that we should be looking for.

And then, so that's geographic question and then, just quick follow-up question is, you seem to have finally be getting a little more, at least, footprint with the auto makers with the in-dash segment.

How should we be thinking about your view on potential returns and return improvement on the investments that you been putting into in-dash and what you think the way forward is for that part of the business.

Thanks.

Okay.

Thanks, James.

In terms of the geographic mix, you're correct that the Americas segment was weaker and Europe, of course, was down and then A-PAC was strong.

I think the dynamics there in Europe, first of all, the currency trends probably impacted us the most and I think by segment, we were actually pleased with many of the results that we had in 2015 and the gains that we had in terms of market share and unit deliveries.

In terms of the Americas, it was down and I think the biggest impact there was the activity tracker and fitness markets, which were primarily driven out of the Americas in terms of its overall development during the year.

In A-PAC, we've had strong success in terms of some of our segments there, particularly outdoor and also auto sales, auto OEM sales, into various markets in A-PAC and the Middle East.

In terms of our outlook to 2016, I think we would anticipate some improvement in the America side of things, especially as we see growth in some of our traditional markets.

I think in Europe we're continuing to plan for growth in terms of unit deliveries and overall improvements in margins and stabilization in currencies.

In, A-PAC, we continue to see and outlook for growth in terms of what's happening there as well.

On the automotive OEM question, I would say that, yes, we continue to make incremental progress.

I would say that it's not pleasing but at the same time, we are not satisfied with that.

We continue to drive for more wins.

As you know, that this particular market and business is a long-lead business and so business develops very slowly and I probably can't say when we would see a stabilization, although we are trying to adjust our investments as well as going after nearer-term deals that would help us improve the overall picture there.

In general, I feel good about where we're at and I feel like we have more work to do.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Roberts Spingarn, Credit Suisse.

Hi.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Cliff, I have one for you on aviation and the strength in the quarter and just what you're seeing there, given that some of these new products, I don't think, come online, as you said, until 2016.

Doug, for you, wanted to ask about your expectations for free cash flow in 2016, just given, I guess, the easy compare with 2015.

You had the tax payment.

And then what buyback assumption might be in your 2016 free cash flow?

Okay.

Starting first, Robert, with the aviation side of things, we were pleased with what happened in Q4.

I think we would attribute that to several factors.

One is there was a kind of a rush of deliveries that took place at the end of the year which typically does happen and we had newer platforms that of course were part of that mix, allowing us to grow some of our revenues on the OEM side.

And then we also ran successful promotions in Q4 which helped grow our overall sales in the retrofit side.

I think generally we feel good about where aviation ended the year, but we do continue to see the headwind in terms of the overall market that we've been talking about for a while.

Before we go to Doug, do you see, just on the back of that, do you have any line of sight as to when this market really fundamentally improves?

Or is this global environment with FX and oil, et cetera, does it just cloud everything well into the future?

I think my view is that, that still presents a significant cloud to the longer term.

Not that I would say that we feel that we have opportunities for growth in terms of market share and new platforms, which we continue to do.

So we are not necessarily completely pessimistic but we recognize that the overall trends are a challenge, particularly as you see more stock market volatility and, of course, the lingering effect of low oil prices and geo-political (technical difficulty).

Just to be clear, without the new product introductions on sort of same products, would you say volumes are trending negatively in 2016?

I would say it's probably flat based on where things stand today.

There's some steady-state deliveries that are going on with our existing OEMs and many of our OEMs are doing reasonably well in this environment.

But again, it's a headwind for everybody.

Okay.

Okay.

Thanks.

Sorry Doug.

No problem.

(Multiple speakers) Yes.

Regarding free cash flow, we expect about $400 million of free cash flow for 2016.

That assumes about $75 million of CapEx.

Regarding share purchase for 2016, we'll actually monitor that depending upon the market and business conditions during 2016.

Is there anything particular in that $400 million that makes it a bit lower than, let's say, the last couple of years before 2015?

Well, it is -- we were factoring in the income forecast that we have in our guidance, as well as taking into consideration our working capital needs and inventory and such.

So those are still rising a bit?

Just a bit.

They probably -- the working capital should not increase as much as it has in the previous years but it will probably a little bit as we grow our business.

Okay.

In any particular segments?

Probably be where we have the new product offerings, primarily in the fitness area.

Also in inventory, historically we've added some raw material requirements for safety stock.

Now we built that up and we'll kind of monitor that we go along, reseed additional safety stock we need to build up.

I see.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thanks, Robert.

Charlie Anderson, Dougherty & Company.

Good morning.

Thanks for taking my questions.

I just wanted a quick clarification on the growth rate assumptions in outdoor and auto, if those were apples to apples with the reclassification with action camera.

Secondly on fitness, I wonder if we could kind of deconstruct just a little bit.

On a constant currency basis, how much did it grow in 2015?

What are sort of the market assumptions for 2016 in terms of the core runner, cycler, cycling, activity tracker and then maybe market share.

You're assuming to sort stay pretty steady with market share.

This Doug.

I'll take the first part of that regarding the guidance numbers we've had for outdoor and auto.

Yes, we actually -- those guidance numbers that we gave factored in recasting, reclassifying the prior-year numbers and so beginning in 2016, the segment information that you'll see in our Qs go forward will have those numbers recast.

In terms of our outlook, Charlie, in 2016 on fitness, we're projecting 10% overall in the segment and that's pretty much an equal mix of growth in the trackers as well as the other product lines of cycling, the running, and all of those.

In terms of market share where we are today, we believe we are the market-share leader in the GPS enabled wearable device part of the market.

We believe that our share is currently in the low- to mid-40% range.

The market has expanded significantly in the past year so in terms of overall unit deliveries, we are still in a growth mode and we would expect to take some additional share and reclaim some share in the coming year as we feel our product lineup is much stronger than it was with many more products coming out with wrist based heart rate.

Great.

Thanks so much.

Thank you, Charlie.

Tavis McCourt, Raymond James.

Thanks for taking my question.

A couple for you, Cliff.

On -- in the aviation business, where do we stand now in terms of the mix that's OEM versus after market?

As you guided for the year, what are your assumptions on that after market trend?

And then, in terms of the logic of moving the camera business to auto, is there some operational logic there besides just moving it to a declining business category?

Should we expect more integration of cameras into -- in new applications in the PND segment?

Yes.

Okay.

On aviation, in terms of the mix, we don't detail that out but generally we see slightly stronger results in OEM as we add new platforms and study to increasing growth in terms of retrofit as we introduce new products into the market.

In terms of our logic around the move of the action cameras, as I mentioned in my remarks, there's a lot of similarities in the technologies and the market channels for action cameras as well as dash cameras that we have in already in our automotive segment and so consequently, we felt like it would better align all those resources and create more efficiencies as we deal with those similar technologies and routes to market.

Thanks.

Doug, if we look at the full-year guidance of roughly flat on the top line, as we think about Q1, should it be a significant departure from that, better or worse, based on -- I forget if Q1 was disappointed or strong quarter last year but based on the comps and everything, how should we view Q1?

Yes.

We don't give quarterly guidance about the Q1 is a lower seasonal quarter for us.

Brad Erickson, Pacific Crest Securities.

Hi.

Thanks for taking my questions.

First, just want to understand the margin dynamics, I guess, a little bit better for fitness.

If we assume sort of flat FX, does 10% growth in fitness effectively equate to, say, stable margins or does that still imply some margin erosion year over year?

Yes, Brad, we're projecting margin erosion in fitness in 2016.

Of course, we had quite a bit of margin erosion in 2015 due to both currency and the competitive dynamics but in 2016, we're projecting better margin will continue to come down.

We're comping against much higher margins that we had last year in the first half in fitness and we feel like it will stabilize down to a lower level, about a 300 basis point impact.

Got it.

That's helpful.

And then just on the fitness products overall, you talked a lot about, on this call, thus far around the heart rate monitoring technology.

Can you kind of give us a sense of maybe some of the other sensor technologies that are maybe of interest for those products in the future?

Thanks.

Well, we don't to talk about our future road map, but that we have expirations going on around many different kinds of sensor technologies and looking at which ones of those will provide useful guidance information for average consumers.

Thank you.

Will Power, Robert Baird.

Great.

Thanks.

Yes.

Maybe just first a follow-up on aviation.

I think on the previous call, or a couple of calls, you had referenced some of the negative energy impacts.

I wonder if you could give us a sense for what you're seeing on that front.

How much is that limiting the growth opportunity in 2016?

I think the energy situation directly impacts particularly the helicopter market, because helicopters are used significantly in oil exploration and all of the logistics that go around that, so that's one big impact.

But then, in terms of oil-producing countries, the lower oil prices are having an economic impact broadly in those so the citizens are not necessarily anxious to buy when oil prices are low.

That's really the major factors that's creating headwinds in terms of the oil impact.

Okay.

And then just bigger picture, just as you think about the cash balance, and this is probably one of the regular quarterly questions, too; any updated thoughts with respect to plans for that cash balance, thoughts around more aggressive stock buyback or the ability to do that or just any other updated thoughts with respect to how to best utilize that?

Yes.

I think the priorities for our cash are to be a reliable payer of a dividend over the long term so we focused heavily on that and then secondarily, to look for opportunities for tuck-in acquisitions that can help complement our business, add resources or expand our market.

Those are the two primary areas and then we intend to supplement that with additional share buybacks.

Based on our current free cash flow, our targets have been to return about 100% of that, again based on where we are today, but it's something we evaluate as we go along, depending on our cash flow and the overall situation.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, that's all the questioners in queue at this time, so I would like to turn the call back over to Management for closing remarks.

Okay.

Thank you, everyone.

Doug and I will be available for call back.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you again for your participation in today's conference.

This now concludes the program and you may all disconnect your telephone lines at this time.

Everyone, have a great day.