Grab Holdings Ltd (GRAB) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us today. My name is Nora, and I will be your conference operator for this session. Welcome to Grab's first quarter 2025 earnings results call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，感謝你們今天的出席。我叫諾拉，我將擔任本次會議的主持人。歡迎參加 Grab 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

I will now turn it over to Douglas Eu to start the call.

現在我將把電話會議交給 Douglas Eu。

Good day, everyone, and welcome to Grab's first quarter 2025 earnings call. I'm Douglas Eu, Director, Investor Relations and Strategic Finance at Grab. And joining me today are Anthony Tan, Chief Executive Officer; Alex Hungate, President and Chief Operating Officer; and Peter Oey, Chief Financial Officer.

大家好，歡迎參加 Grab 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。我是 Douglas Eu，Grab 投資者關係和策略財務總監。今天與我一起的還有執行長 Anthony Tan、總裁兼營運長 Alex Hungate 和財務長 Peter Oey。

During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements about future events, including our future business and financial performance. These statements are based on our current beliefs and expectations. Actual results could differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties as described on this earnings call, in the earnings release and our Form 20-F and other filings with the SEC.

在本次電話會議中，我們將對未來事件做出前瞻性陳述，包括我們未來的業務和財務表現。這些聲明是基於我們當前的信念和期望。由於本次收益電話會議、收益發布以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的 20-F 表格和其他文件中所述的許多風險和不確定性，實際結果可能存在重大差異。

We do not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statements. We will also be discussing non-IFRS financial measures on this call. These measures supplement but do not replace IFRS financial measures. Please refer to the earnings materials for a reconciliation of non-IFRS to IFRS financial measures. For more information, please refer to our earnings press release, remarks and supplemental presentation available on our website.

我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。我們也將在本次電話會議上討論非國際財務報告準則的財務指標。這些措施補充但不能取代國際財務報告準則的財務措施。請參閱收益資料，以了解非國際財務報告準則與國際財務報告準則財務指標的對帳。欲了解更多信息，請參閱我們網站上的收益新聞稿、評論和補充介紹。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Anthony to deliver his opening remarks before we open it up for questions.

接下來，在我們開始提問之前，我將把電話交給安東尼，讓他致開場白。

Our first quarter results were strong as we achieved profitable growth despite the seasonal impacts to demand from the Lunar New Year and Ramadan fasting period. We grew On-Demand GMV by 17% year-on-year and achieved yet another record number of monthly transacting users on our platform, translating to another quarter of record revenues.

儘管農曆新年和齋戒月齋戒期對需求產生了季節性影響，但我們第一季的業績仍然強勁，實現了獲利成長。我們的按需 GMV 年成長了 17%，而我們平台的每月交易用戶數量再創歷史新高，這意味著我們的季度收入再創歷史新高。

As we drove strong top line growth, we continue to harness the scale of our ecosystem to drive greater network efficiencies and maintain a disciplined stance on costs. As such, we achieved our 13th consecutive quarter of group adjusted EBITDA improvement, while our trailing 12-month adjusted free cash flow also expanded to $157 million.

在推動強勁的收入成長的同時，我們繼續利用生態系統的規模來提高網路效率並保持對成本的嚴格控制。因此，我們實現了連續 13 個季度的集團調整後 EBITDA 成長，同時過去 12 個月的調整後自由現金流也擴大至 1.57 億美元。

We're cognizant that there are increased levels of uncertainty in the global macroeconomic landscape. We remain committed to the mission of our company and believe that it is more important than ever before to continuously drive improvements to the reliability and affordability in our offerings. This will increasingly position us as a countercyclical company, enabling us to stay resilient and continue driving new user growth and improvements to usage frequency and retention regardless of the macroeconomic landscape.

我們認識到全球宏觀經濟格局的不確定性正在增加。我們始終致力於公司的使命，並相信不斷提高我們產品的可靠性和可負擔性比以往任何時候都更重要。這將使我們日益成為一家逆週期公司，使我們能夠保持彈性，並繼續推動新用戶成長以及使用頻率和保留率的提高，無論宏觀經濟狀況如何。

Looking ahead, we reiterate our expectation to maintain our On-Demand GMV and revenue growth momentum compared to 2024 growth rates, while maintaining a highly disciplined stance on costs. Given the strong performance of the first quarter, we are raising our adjusted EBITDA outlook for the full year 2025 to $460 million to $480 million from $440 million to $470 million previously.

展望未來，我們重申我們的預期，與 2024 年的成長率相比，我們的按需 GMV 和營收成長動能將得以維持，同時對成本保持高度自律的立場。鑑於第一季的強勁表現，我們將 2025 年全年調整後 EBITDA 預期從先前的 4.4 億美元至 4.7 億美元上調至 4.6 億美元至 4.8 億美元。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Let me just go ahead and call on once again for Ms. Pang of Goldman Sachs.

讓我再次請高盛的彭女士發言。

So congratulations for the great results. And two questions from me. Number one, just on the macro, have you seen any changes in consumer behavior amidst weakening macros, especially in Indonesia? How resilient do you think is Grab in this environment? And how do you plan to position Grab to be more countercyclical? That's question number one.

祝賀你們取得如此優異的成績。我還有兩個問題。第一，就宏觀而言，您是否看到宏觀經濟疲軟背景下消費者行為發生了任何變化，尤其是在印尼？您認為 Grab 在這種環境下的韌性如何？您計劃如何讓 Grab 更具逆週期性？這是第一個問題。

Question number two, you have announced several new products at your GrabX day last month. Could you share how you expect these products to drive your operational performance? As these new products roll out, how should we foresee some -- should we foresee some margin weakness as you launch other products as well?

第二個問題，您在上個月的 GrabX 日上發布了幾款新產品。您能否分享一下您希望這些產品如何推動您的營運績效？隨著這些新產品的推出，我們該如何預見——在推出其他產品時，我們是否應該預見利潤率的疲軟？

Hi Pang, it's Alex here. Thanks very much for both of those questions. So the first one on consumer behavior, we haven't seen yet any signs of consumer weakness. Of course, we're monitoring very closely. So in this last quarter, we had delivery MTUs continuing to grow sequentially, particularly with a strong performance from GrabMart demand in March.

你好，Pang，我是 Alex。非常感謝這兩個問題。第一個關於消費者行為的問題，我們還沒有看到任何消費者疲軟的跡象。當然，我們正在密切關注。因此，在上個季度，我們的配送 MTU 持續連續成長，尤其是 3 月 GrabMart 需求表現強勁。

April trading update for you, we're trending healthily in line, I would say, with our expectations. So, we do expect a rebound in quarter-on-quarter growth rates across Mobility and Deliveries for quarter two. At the same time, of course, because of the news flow, we continue to work closely with government partners to support local economies, particularly making sure our marketplace is healthy so that we continue to generate the earning opportunities for our partners on that platform going forward.

為您提供四月份的交易更新，我想說，我們的趨勢符合我們的預期。因此，我們確實預期第二季行動出行和配送業務的環比成長率將會反彈。同時，當然，由於新聞流，我們繼續與政府合作夥伴密切合作，支持當地經濟，特別是確保我們的市場健康，以便我們繼續在該平台上為我們的合作夥伴創造盈利機會。

I would just make an observation that in the past where there has been a turndown in economic conditions, the platform kind of works on a self-adjusting basis in the following way. A number of new drivers will join the platform as a cushion against potential job losses, et cetera.

我只是想指出，在過去經濟狀況下滑的時候，該平台會以以下方式自我調整地運作。大量新司機將加入該平台，以緩解潛在的失業等問題。

And therefore, we tend to get an improvement in supply conditions, which in turn will reduce surge at key moments. Therefore, encourage more consumption, more use of the platform by consumers. So you can see it's kind of a self-correcting, almost countercyclical approach that we see from the platform during those types of downturns. So far, no signs of downturn. So we'll keep monitoring that.

因此，我們傾向於改善供應狀況，這反過來又會減少關鍵時刻的激增。因此，鼓勵消費者更多地消費、更多地使用該平台。因此，您可以看到，在經濟低迷時期，我們從平台上看到了一種自我修正、幾乎是反週期的方法。到目前為止，還沒有出現下滑的跡象。因此我們會持續監控。

The second question is about the GrabX product day, where we talked about harnessing AI to improve user and partner-centric services going forward. We call it AI with Heart (sic) [AI-First with Heart] for those of you that missed it. So a lot of the products that we launched did have affordability in mind. So it very much relates to your first part of your question.

第二個問題是關於 GrabX 產品日的，我們在會議中討論如何利用人工智慧來改善未來以使用者和合作夥伴為中心的服務。對於那些錯過的人來說，我們稱之為「有心的人工智慧（原文如此）」[AI-First with Heart]。因此，我們推出的許多產品確實考慮到了價格實惠。所以這和你問題的第一部分非常相關。

So we are positioning ourselves to continue to grow through any kind of weakness in the macros. So for merchants, for example, we've used the Merchant Assistant to add something like 70,000 menu items without human intervention. So, that's merchant scanning and delivering, generating descriptions now. So 2.8 million different items if you go across all merchants.

因此，我們的定位是克服宏觀層面的任何弱點，並繼續實現成長。例如，對於商家，我們使用商家助理新增了約 70,000 個選單項，無需人工幹預。因此，這就是商家掃描和交付，現在產生描述。因此，如果你調查所有商家，你會發現有 280 萬種不同的商品。

And then we're getting -- we're using Ride Guide to help the driver earnings to improve. So, we've got now already 0.25 million drivers using this feature on a weekly basis. And we have seen from those drivers higher income, higher productivity. So it keeps the marketplace healthy even under difficult conditions.

然後我們正在使用 Ride Guide 來幫助司機提高收入。目前，每週已有 25 萬名駕駛者使用此功能。我們從這些驅動因素中看到了更高的收入、更高的生產力。因此，即使在困難的條件下，它也能保持市場健康。

I noticed that you asked about margin weakness from this push for affordability. We don't actually anticipate a margin loss from these new products, and we're not seeing it so far. And let me explain why. Because something like Shared Saver, for example, which is the lower cost for consumer and therefore drives good volume improvements, is actually amortizing the same delivery cost across multiple customers by inviting multiple people to join the same order.

我注意到您詢問了這種追求可負擔性的做法導致的利潤率下降的問題。我們實際上並不預期這些新產品會導致利潤損失，而且目前我們還沒有看到這種情況。讓我來解釋一下原因。因為像共享節省這樣的服務，對於消費者來說成本較低，因此可以帶來銷售的良好成長，它實際上是透過邀請多個人加入同一個訂單，在多個客戶之間分攤相同的配送成本。

So essentially no extra cost to Grab or to the marketplace. And even GrabFood for One, which has a lower cost per meal, is actually benefiting the merchants from allowing them to batch up a lot of meal production into the same cooking batch. And as some of you know, I used to be in the food industry. So I know that this is much more cost-effective and more productive for merchants to cook in large batches.

因此對於 Grab 或市場來說基本上不需要額外成本。即使是每餐成本較低的 GrabFood for One，實際上也讓商家受益，因為他們可以將大量的餐點批量製作成同一批烹飪。你們中的一些人知道，我曾經從事食品業。所以我知道這對商家進行大批量烹飪來說更划算，也更有效率。

And then we generate the demand for those special offer meals at that particular window, and they're able to package up the large batch into multiple meals and sell them all together. So in that case, we're amortizing the merchant's cost into a very production batch for them, and there's no additional cost to Grab also. So you can see that, that kind of approach is just making the marketplace more efficient, but it should not drive our -- it should not put pressure on our margins.

然後，我們在特定窗口產生對這些特價餐的需求，他們可以將大批量的餐食打包成多份餐食並一起出售。因此在這種情況下，我們將商家的成本攤銷到他們的每個生產批次中，而 Grab 也不會承擔額外成本。所以你可以看到，這種方法只是讓市場變得更有效率，但它不應該驅動我們——它不應該給我們的利潤帶來壓力。

The key point for us is that we want to drive the penetration of our annual transacting units -- users up further. So our MTUs, our monthly transacting users, increases. And then within that, we want to continue to drive up our daily transacting users as well. So, these kind of affordable products and viral products that we announced at the GrabX will help us do both of those.

對我們來說，關鍵在於我們希望進一步提高年度交易單位（用戶）的滲透率。因此我們的 MTU（每月交易用戶數）增加了。在此基礎上，我們也希望繼續提高每日交易用戶數。因此，我們在 GrabX 上發布的這些價格實惠且病毒式傳播的產品將幫助我們實現這兩個目標。

So on margin, we're going to continue to focus on balancing this with the growth. But the key focus for us, obviously, is driving absolute profit growth. And it's just worth just remembering that we're now in our 13th quarter of improving EBITDA in a row. So you can see that that's very much a focus for us.

因此，在利潤率方面，我們將持續致力於平衡利潤率與成長。但顯然，我們的重點是推動絕對利潤成長。值得記住的是，我們現在已經連續第 13 季提高 EBITDA。所以你可以看出這是我們非常關注的重點。

Alicia Yap from Citigroup Inc.

花旗集團的 Alicia Yap

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes. Loud and clear.

是的。聲音響亮、清晰。

Congrats on the solid quarters. Two questions here. First, I think on your guidance, especially on the higher EBITDA guidance. Can management elaborate the reasons for your confidence on the profitability improvement? Are you seeing decent cost optimizations coming from your AI technology enhancement even though if in the case of the second half, if the top line actually face some macro headwinds?

恭喜您取得穩固的成績。這裡有兩個問題。首先，我認為您的指導，尤其是更高的 EBITDA 指導。管理階層能否詳細說明您對獲利能力改善充滿信心的原因？即使在下半年，如果營收實際上面臨一些宏觀阻力，您是否看到 AI 技術增強帶來不錯的成本優化？

And then second question is that I understand you mentioned you have not seen any demand slowdown with the tariff concerns and all that. But in the coming months, just in case, right, if you were to see some softness on the Deliveries demands or even Mobility demands, would you actually let -- what would be your plans? Would you actually let the volume naturally slow down? Or would you actually introduce some subsidies or rebates or promotion to actually encourage the demand and also the spending to keep up the volumes and also the engagement?

第二個問題是，我理解您提到由於關稅問題等原因，您沒有看到任何需求放緩。但在接下來的幾個月裡，以防萬一，對吧，如果您看到交付需求甚至行動需求有所減弱，您實際上會讓——您的計劃是什麼？您真的會讓音量自然地減慢嗎？或者您實際上會推出一些補貼、回扣或促銷活動來真正刺激需求和支出，以保持銷售和參與？

Great. Alicia, let me take this question. And maybe, Alex, also if you can add some color, especially around -- on the demand side. If you look at the macro situation, we are definitely watching and monitoring that from the sideline. We can't ignore it, but we're also keeping a close eye on it. But the guidance that we're giving out is something that we feel very comfortable at. And let me kind of step back as to why we are giving this level of confidence in our EBITDA guidance.

偉大的。艾莉西亞，讓我來回答這個問題。也許，亞歷克斯，你也可以添加一些顏色，特別是在需求方面。如果你看一下宏觀形勢，我們一定會從旁邊觀察和監控。我們不能忽視它，但我們也在密切關注它。但我們給的指導讓我們感到非常滿意。讓我回顧為什麼我們對 EBITDA 指引有如此程度的信心。

We're doing two things, right? We're doing -- reiterating our revenue guidance, and we're actually increasing EBITDA guidance. So what happened in Q1? So, Q1 is usually our slowest season on the back of coming out of our high season from Q4. But what we saw actually in Q1 actually was a couple of really unique things in our business. Demand did not slow down despite the Ramadan and the Lunar New Year.

我們正在做兩件事，對嗎？我們正在重申我們的收入預期，並且我們實際上正在提高 EBITDA 預期。那麼第一季發生了什麼事？因此，由於第四季度是我們的旺季，因此第一季通常是我們最慢的季度。但我們在第一季實際上看到的是我們業務中一些非常獨特的事情。儘管正值齋戒月和農曆新年，但需求並未放緩。

If you look at our On-Demand GMV, grew at 17% on a year-over-year basis. But if you look at what's unique is we had another all-time high when it comes to monthly transacting users. So the MTU is continuing to be at an all-time high.

如果你看一下我們的按需 GMV，你會發現它比去年同期成長了 17%。但如果你看看我們的獨特之處，你會發現我們的月交易用戶數再創新高。因此，MTU 將繼續保持歷史最高水準。

We hit another record revenue quarter for us. And really what's -- really for us actually was a very interesting data point was that the number of transactions that occurred on our platform was up 19% on a year-over-year basis, which means that the number of engagement and the number of transactions grew faster than our On-Demand GMV business overall.

我們又創下了季度營收新高。對我們來說，真正有趣的數據點是，我們平台上發生的交易數量同比增長了 19%，這意味著參與次數和交易數量的增長速度快於我們的按需 GMV 業務整體。

And if you look at April, and Alex mentioned to Pang's earlier question, what are we seeing in April, we're seeing a strong rebound also coming on the back of Ramadan in terms of On-Demand GMV growth. And it's coming in, in line with our expectation.

如果你看一下四月份的情況，Alex 也提到了 Pang 之前的問題，我們在四月份看到了什麼，我們看到在齋月之後按需 GMV 增長也出現了強勁反彈。而它正在到來，符合我們的預期。

So if you look at all those different components, we're looking at for the rest of the year, we see demand continuing to be strong. And we keep continuing to see, well, from our perspective, from our lens, continuing growth in our On-Demand business for the rest of the year, on a year-over-year basis, also across all our revenue lines, especially on the fintech side of the business.

因此，如果你看一下所有這些不同的組成部分，我們就會發現，今年剩餘時間的需求將繼續保持強勁。從我們的角度來看，我們繼續看到，在今年剩餘時間內，我們的按需業務將繼續同比增長，並涵蓋我們所有的收入線，特別是金融科技業務。

Cost is another component that we're also watching very closely. The cost structure of our business continues to be optimized. You saw what the regional corporate cost number was. It was slightly down on a Q-on-Q. It was down 5% on a year-over-year basis. And we're continuing to make sure that we're optimizing that cost.

成本是我們密切關注的另一個因素。我們的業務成本結構持續優化。您看到了區域公司成本數字是多少。與上一季相比，略有下降。與去年同期相比下降了5%。我們將繼續確保優化成本。

Yes, there is some components of costs that we're deferring to later given seasonality, and there will be some components of that as the variable cost component goes up with volume, but we are managing our cost base also at the same time. With all those different components, Alicia, what we are seeing is that we're confident that the EBITDA guidance that we're giving out, we feel very comfortable. And we're seeing confidence in making sure we can execute that for the rest of this year.

是的，考慮到季節性因素，我們會將某些成本組成部分推遲到以後再處理，而且隨著產量的增加，變動成本組成部分也會增加，但同時，我們也在管理我們的成本基礎。艾莉西亞，考慮到所有這些不同的因素，我們看到的是，我們對我們給予的 EBITDA 指導充滿信心，我們感到非常滿意。我們有信心確保我們能夠在今年剩餘時間內實現這一目標。

So Alex, you want to add a little bit around the On-Demand side of the business?

那麼 Alex，你想在業務的按需方面添加一些內容嗎？

Yeah, I think as Peter said, this quarter should have been a seasonally weak quarter, but we were able to continue to grow Deliveries MTUs sequentially. A lot of that was because of the way we operationalized Mart during the Ramadan fasting period to replace dining out with providing groceries and food for people at home.

是的，我認為正如彼得所說，本季度本應是一個季節性疲軟的季度，但我們能夠繼續連續增加交付 MTU。這在很大程度上是因為我們在齋戒月期間經營了 Mart，用為在家的人們提供雜貨和食物來取代外出用餐。

The productivity gains from AI came through already in the quarter in the way that we manage the direct marketing costs during those campaigns. And that's a capability which I think will serve us well if there is the kind of downturn that you're asking about. I think the way in which we can fine-tune our promotions and our incentives using AI is demonstrably better than it was even six months ago. So we can get a benefit from that as well.

人工智慧帶來的生產力提升已經在本季透過我們在這些活動期間管理直接行銷成本的方式體現出來。我認為，如果出現您所問到的那種經濟衰退，這種能力將會對我們大有裨益。我認為，我們利用人工智慧來微調促銷和激勵措施的方式明顯比六個月前更好。因此我們也可以從中受益。

Cross-sell continues to be a big focus for us. And you can see that, in particular, the Financial Services business has benefited from excellent cross-sell with the majority of the new to financial services customers coming from Grab's platform, but also the cross-sell that we're getting between the verticals like food to Mobility and food through to Mart continue to perform well. And all of these are increasingly powered by auto-adaptive AI campaigns.

交叉銷售仍然是我們關注的重點。您可以看到，特別是金融服務業務受益於出色的交叉銷售，大多數新的金融服務客戶來自 Grab 的平台，而且我們在食品到移動和食品到 Mart 等垂直領域之間的交叉銷售也繼續表現良好。所有這些都越來越多地受到自適應人工智慧活動的推動。

The focus that you heard about at GrabX is on tech and product innovation and not -- therefore, we're less and less reliant upon promotions and incentives. In particular, what I really like about the new products coming out now is they have a viral component, so things like family orders. We've got family units who are bringing in other family members into the platform and booking rides on behalf of other family members. This is all part of the kind of viral component that helps the platform to grow itself. So you'll see our strategy increasingly focused on that as well.

您所聽到的 GrabX 的重點是技術和產品創新，而不是——因此，我們越來越少地依賴促銷和激勵措施。特別是，我真正喜歡現在推出的新產品的一點是它們具有病毒式傳播的成分，因此可以實現家庭訂單等功能。我們有一些家庭單位，他們將其他家庭成員帶入平台並代表其他家庭成員預訂車輛。這些都是幫助平台自我成長的病毒式組件的一部分。因此，你會看到我們的策略也越來越注重這一點。

I think Peter covered some of the ways in which we are thinking about demand. It's worth just highlighting one more time that our MTU number is only still only 6% of the total population of Southeast Asia. So as a management team, we're very focused on the other 94%. We think there's a lot of opportunity. And particularly with these new affordable products, we intend to keep expanding the perimeter of our ecosystem as our main focus.

我認為彼得涵蓋了我們思考需求的一些方式。值得再次強調的是，我們的 MTU 數量仍然僅佔東南亞總人口的 6%。因此，作為管理團隊，我們非常關注其餘 94%。我們認為有很多機會。特別是針對這些價格實惠的新產品，我們打算繼續將擴大我們的生態系統的範圍作為我們的主要關注點。

And I think you can be -- having seen us deliver 13 quarters of improving EBITDA in a row, hopefully, you feel confident that we'll get the balance right between that focus on growth and yet also continuing to improve the bottom line as well.

我認為您可以——看到我們連續 13 個季度實現 EBITDA 改善，希望您有信心，我們將在專注於成長和繼續提高底線之間取得平衡。

Venugopal Garre at Bernstein, Societe Generale Group.

Venugopal Garre 任職於法國興業銀行伯恩斯坦公司。

Congratulations on a good quarter. Two questions from me. Firstly, as far as the delivery industry is concerned, we are seeing further consolidation such as Foodpanda, for example, shutting down their Thailand business even though it was relatively smaller and Deliveroo looking to sell their business to DoorDash.

恭喜本季業績良好。我有兩個問題。首先，就配送業而言，我們看到了進一步的整合，例如 Foodpanda 關閉了其泰國業務，儘管該業務規模相對較小，而 Deliveroo 則希望將其業務出售給 DoorDash。

So how do we see industry consolidation shaping up in this segment in ASEAN? Is there room for more? Or is it done? And I'm asking this because you already have a fairly strong category position. That's the first question.

那我們如何看待東協這一領域的產業整合？還有更多空間嗎？或已經完成了？我之所以問這個問題，是因為你們已經擁有相當強大的類別地位。這是第一個問題。

The second question is more centered around if you could share a bit on how your Indonesia business has performed compared to your closest competitor who also ended up reporting yesterday. And even though there's a lot of questions centered around macro, I want to just get a perspective on your thoughts around capital allocation in light of not today's macro risk, but potential macro risk that might emerge when tariffs reappear. So essentially, do you still have an appetite for further inorganic M&A, namely GoTo, as you've seen in the recent quarters in terms of news flow?

第二個問題更集中在您是否可以分享一下與昨天公佈業績的最接近的競爭對手相比，貴公司在印尼的業務表現如何。儘管有許多問題都圍繞著宏觀經濟，但我只是想了解您對資本配置的看法，不是從當今的宏觀風險來看，而是從關稅再次出現時可能出現的潛在宏觀風險來看。那麼從本質上講，正如您在最近幾季的新聞流中看到的那樣，您是否仍然有興趣進行進一步的無機併購，即 GoTo？

Thanks, Venu. Let me take the first one around consolidation. Maybe, Alex, if I can ask you to take the Indonesian specific question there and what you're seeing. Maybe you can share a little bit more color there.

謝謝，Venu。我先談談合併問題。也許，亞歷克斯，我可以請你談談有關印尼的具體問題以及你所看到的情況。也許您可以在那裡分享更多色彩。

Look, Venu, I think when it comes to consolidation, it's hard to predict. I can't comment really in terms of how the delivery market will shape up in the future. We've been focusing a lot in going -- continue to growth our Deliveries segment of our business. It grew at 17% on a year-over-year basis. We feel it's underpenetrated. So there's still ways to go in growing that business.

聽著，Venu，我認為當談到整合時，很難預測。我無法真正評論未來配送市場將會如何發展。我們一直非常注重繼續發展我們的配送業務。較去年同期成長17%。我們覺得它的滲透力還不夠。因此，發展該業務還有很長的路要走。

So we're heads down executing that. And Alex spoke about some of the products that we've been sharing and also through our GrabX also that you're seeing to continue to bolster that growth in the business. We also want to drive more engagement also at the same time with our set of Deliveries products. So we're going to continue to make sure that we increase the number of users on our platform on Deliveries.

因此，我們正在全力執行這項目標。亞歷克斯談到了我們一直在分享的一些產品，以及透過我們的 GrabX 所看到的一些產品，這些產品將繼續促進業務的成長。我們也希望透過我們的一系列交付產品來推動更多的參與。因此，我們將繼續確保增加我們送貨平台上的用戶數量。

Organic has been working nicely for us, and we're going to continue to execute that business. Competitors come in, competitors go, as you've said also. But we're continuing to make sure that in this environment that we're in, we have to continue to make sure our products are affordable, which is really important for our users, and the selection also continues to widen, which is where we've been focusing around -- for example, around areas of bolstering our Mart products as well as continuing to bring traffic to our merchants in store at the same time.

有機產品對我們來說一直很有效，我們將繼續開展這項業務。正如您所說，競爭對手進來，競爭對手離開。但我們將繼續確保在我們所處的環境中，我們必須繼續確保我們的產品價格合理，這對我們的用戶來說非常重要，並且選擇範圍也在不斷擴大，這也是我們一直關注的領域 - 例如，圍繞加強我們的 Mart 產品以及同時繼續為店內商家帶來流量的領域。

So, that's how we see the market landscape. Whether you'll see some more consolidation, who knows? But we're going to continue to grow our market share.

這就是我們對市場格局的看法。誰知道是否會看到更多的整合？但我們將繼續擴大我們的市場份額。

Thanks, Venu. Yes. Let me pick up on Indonesia. A key market for us, obviously. We can confirm that similar to the last quarter, the fourth quarter, in the first quarter, we did outgrow our closest competitor once again. So I think our product-led approach is helping, particularly to offset in what should have been a weaker seasonal quarter.

謝謝，Venu。是的。讓我來談談印尼。顯然，這對我們來說是一個關鍵市場。我們可以確認，與上一季、第四季類似，在第一季度，我們確實再次超越了最接近的競爭對手。因此，我認為我們的以產品為主導的方法是有幫助的，特別是可以抵消原本應該較弱的季節性因素。

We continued in spite of Ramadan to grow Deliveries MTUs in Indonesia. We grew sequentially, particularly as I mentioned earlier, on the back of a strong performance from GrabMart, where people can do instant shopping on Grab.

儘管正值齋戒月，我們仍繼續增加印尼的 MTU 交付量。我們實現了連續成長，特別是正如我之前提到的，由於 GrabMart 的強勁表​​現，人們可以在 Grab 上進行即時購物。

I have a great example of what I was talking about earlier in terms of fine-tuning costs at the same time because our direct marketing costs within Indonesia in the same period declined actually 12% quarter-on-quarter. So that helps contribute to adjusted EBITDA as a percentage of GMV improving quarter-on-quarter despite the fact that we outperformed on category position. So, I think our Indonesian business is performing very, very well, and we'll continue to stay very focused on making sure that continues.

我有一個很好的例子來說明我之前談到的關於同時調整成本的問題，因為我們在印尼的同期直接行銷成本實際上比去年同期下降了 12%。因此，儘管我們在類別排名上表現出色，但這仍有助於調整後的 EBITDA 佔 GMV 的百分比環比提高。因此，我認為我們的印尼業務表現非常非常好，我們將繼續專注於確保這種狀況持續下去。

We'll continue to look opportunistically to see if there are opportunities for value-add and synergies into our existing businesses. Peter talked about the high bar that we have. But it's worth pointing out that we have made a number of bolt-on acquisitions where we thought there was really good opportunities to have immediate impact on our -- either capabilities or to extend our ecosystem further.

我們將繼續尋找機會，看看是否有機會為我們的現有業務增值並產生協同效應。彼得談到了我們的高標準。但值得指出的是，我們已經進行了一些附加收購，我們認為這些收購確實有機會對我們的能力產生直接影響，或進一步擴展我們的生態系統。

But just to summarize, we purchased Chope, the reservation application, which we have now reproduced as [Native] inside the Grab app. So that is helping the customers in their workflow as they identify where they want to dine out, which is a new capability that we are growing on the platform. They can now also take the next logical step, which is to make a reservation.

總而言之，我們購買了預訂應用程式 Chope，現在我們在 Grab 應用程式內將其複製為 [Native]。這樣可以幫助顧客在工作流程中確定他們想去哪裡用餐，這是我們正在平台上開發的新功能。他們現在也可以採取下一個合乎邏輯的步驟，那就是預訂。

We also purchased Everrise, which is a retailer in East Malaysia, which extends the Jaya footprint into now a nationwide leading grocer, which is helping to strengthen the frequency and the reach of our offerings of the ecosystem in East Malaysia.

我們還收購了東馬來西亞的零售商 Everrise，將 Jaya 的業務範圍擴展為全國領先的雜貨店，有助於加強我們在東馬來西亞生態系統中產品供應的頻率和覆蓋範圍。

And then finally, GXS Bank, our banking subsidiary here in Singapore, purchased Validus, which is a supply invoice financing capability, which would have probably taken us a while to build on our own but is a logical extension to support the small businesses that operate on our platform and to extend credit to them in a risk-managed way because it's based on the payment credit of much larger companies in the -- that can operate in the ecosystem.

最後，我們在新加坡的銀行子公司 GXS Bank 收購了 Validus，這是一種供應發票融資能力，這可能需要我們花費一些時間來自行構建，但它是一種合理的延伸，可以支持在我們的平台上運營的小型企業，並以風險管理的方式向他們提供信貸，因為它基於可以在生態系統中運營的大型公司的信貸支付。

So, those are all great examples of how we are seeing in this environment that there are indeed undervalued acquisition opportunities that we can bolt onto the platform that can help us to generate value right away and accelerate our time to market.

所以，這些都是很好的例子，說明我們在這種環境下確實存在被低估的收購機會，我們可以將這些機會固定在平台上，幫助我們立即創造價值並加快我們的產品上市時間。

Piyush Choudhary at HSBC.

匯豐銀行的 Piyush Choudhary。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes, we can, Piyush. Go ahead.

是的，我們可以，Piyush。前進。

Yes. Congrats for strong first quarter results and raising the guidance. On the user base, thanks for sharing that chart on DTU, MTU trends. Your DTU is around 16% of MTU as of first quarter. With new product initiatives, you expect DTU to rise, which is logical. But I wanted to check if there is any two-, three-year kind of target where you would like DTU penetration or MTU to reach, and which segment between Mobility and Delivery do you expect penetration to rise at a faster clip?

是的。恭喜第一季業績強勁並提高了預期。在用戶群中，感謝您分享有關 DTU、MTU 趨勢的圖表。截至第一季度，您的 DTU 約為 MTU 的 16%。隨著新產品的推出，您預計 DTU 將會上升，這是合乎邏輯的。但我想檢查一下，您是否希望 DTU 或 MTU 的普及率達到兩年或三年的目標，以及您預計在移動性和交付之間的哪個部分的普及率會以更快的速度上升？

Second question was on order frequency. Can you share what's the monthly order frequency in both Delivery and Mobility segments? And how has it changed over the last one year and your outlook for the same?

第二個問題是關於訂單頻率。您能否分享一下配送和移動部分的每月訂單頻率是多少？過去一年來它發生了哪些變化？您對此有何展望？

Thanks, Piyush. Let me take your question about DTUs. You're right. We also believe that DTUs can grow and catch up the MTU space. So, we are very focused on frequency and retention. We haven't disclosed targets externally for those things, but the fact that we're highlighting them on the presentation is an indication to you that is something that we are focused on and that we're confident that we can make a real difference.

謝謝，Piyush。讓我來回答您關於 DTU 的問題。你說得對。我們也相信 DTU 可以發展並趕上 MTU 的空間。因此，我們非常注重頻率和保留。我們尚未對外披露這些事項的目標，但我們在演示中強調這些事項，這表明我們正集中精力於此，並且我們有信心能夠真正有所作為。

A lot of the GrabX initiatives, whether they were viral or affordability based, are designed to drive up the frequency use case, particularly on a daily basis. So basically, highlighting that here to you today is a way of us saying as a management team that we're confident that we can show you some progress.

GrabX 的許多舉措，無論是病毒式傳播還是基於可負擔性，都是為了提高使用頻率，尤其是日常使用頻率。所以基本上，今天在這裡向你們強調這一點是我們作為管理團隊的一種說法，我們有信心向你們展示一些進展。

Today, the DTU to MTU penetration is about 16% of MTU. So, lots of room to grow up in that space. But we also think that the MTU penetration of ATUs can continue. And indeed, our ATU as a percentage of total Southeast Asia population also has headroom. So I think the investment thesis is still very intact that there's lots of upside growth for us in terms of frequency and overall penetration as well.

如今，DTU 到 MTU 的滲透率約為 MTU 的 16%。因此，該領域仍有很大的發展空間。但我們也認為 MTU 對 ATU 的滲透可以持續下去。事實上，我們的 ATU 佔東南亞總人口的比例也還有上升空間。因此，我認為投資論點仍然非常完整，就頻率和整體滲透率而言，我們還有很大的上升空間。

In terms of order frequency, I can tell you that both Deliveries and Mobility have been improving year-on-year. So Deliveries, we hit a new quarterly record despite the seasonal softness. So usually, Q1 is weaker than the other quarters. In this particular quarter, we had both Chinese New Year and Ramadan entirely in the first quarter. So it should have been a particularly challenging seasonally weak quarter. But as Peter indicated earlier, because of the various new product launches, we have managed to manage that -- get through that seasonally weak situation pretty well.

就訂單頻率而言，我可以告訴你，交付量和移動性都在逐年提高。因此，儘管受到季節性疲軟的影響，我們仍創下了季度交付量的新紀錄。因此通常情況下，第一季比其他季度表現較弱。在這個特別的季度，我們在第一季同時迎來了中國新年和齋戒月。因此，這應該是一個特別具有挑戰性的季節性疲軟季度。但正如彼得之前指出的那樣，由於推出了各種新產品，我們已經成功地度過了季節性疲軟的局面。

And for Mobility, we did share that frequency grew 5% year-on-year even though the MTU growth continued during that same period. So we're confident that we can keep this push on frequency and retention going, and we'll share future updates and future data with you as we go forward.

對於移動性，我們確實表示，儘管同一時期 MTU 繼續增長，但頻率同比增長了 5%。因此，我們有信心繼續推動頻率和保留率的提高，並且我們將在未來與您分享未來的更新和數據。

Wei Fang at Mizuho Securities.

瑞穗證券的魏方。

Great. First one on competition. It's kind of a follow-up to the previous questions, right? Do you see market is getting a little bit more competitive given both the development of the US tariff and also some of the global M&A initiatives? And how do you plan to navigate on that? It would be great if you can comment on both the Delivery and Mobility separately.

偉大的。第一個是關於競爭的。這算是前面問題的後續回答，對嗎？鑑於美國關稅的發展以及一些全球併購舉措，您是否認為市場競爭會變得更激烈一些？您打算如何實現這個目標？如果您能分別對交付和移動性進行評論，那就太好了。

And secondly, can you help also talk about your thoughts about why not integrating your Mobility rewards to you GrabUnlimited package yet?

其次，您能否談談為什麼不將您的 Mobility 獎勵整合到您的 GrabUnlimited 套餐中？

Okay. Thanks. Yes. I guess the recent departure of one global competitor from the Thai market is, let's say, the fourth departure of a competitor from a country over the last 18 months. And so, I think it does signal the continued consolidation of the market. In this kind of a platform business, there are natural returns to scale. The density that you have allows you to continue to drive reliability and price performance at the same time, which over time means that consumers and partners will prefer the platform. So, we are starting to see this.

好的。謝謝。是的。我想，最近有一家全球競爭對手退出泰國市場，可以說是過去 18 個月內第四家競爭對手退出這個國家。因此，我認為這確實標誌著市場持續整合。在這種平台業務中，自然會有規模回報。您擁有的密度使您能夠同時繼續提高可靠性和價格性能，這意味著隨著時間的推移，消費者和合作夥伴會更喜歡該平台。所以，我們開始看到這一點。

Smaller players do still exist. Those with weaker balance sheets may struggle to raise money in this kind of a macro environment. So that may be -- to answer your question about the environment and how that might impact competitors' behaviors, I imagine that shareholders will be less inclined to subsidize kind of promotion-driven campaigns and will be looking for more sustainable returns.

規模較小的參與者仍然存在。在這種宏觀環境下，資產負債表較弱的企業可能難以籌措資金。因此，為了回答您關於環境以及環境如何影響競爭對手行為的問題，我想股東將不太願意補貼促銷活動，而是尋求更永續的回報。

We continue to hold the category leadership position across Mobility and Deliveries. You asked us to talk about that situation separately. But to be honest, we don't think about it separately. We do like to think of our relationship with both our customers and our driver partners as being multi-vertical, where we can really help them to optimize the relationship with them. And that's why GrabUnlimited is being expanded to include Mobility benefits.

我們繼續在行動和配送領域保持領先地位。您要求我們單獨討論該情況。但說實話，我們並沒有單獨考慮這個問題。我們確實喜歡將我們與客戶和司機合作夥伴的關係視為多垂直的關係，我們可以真正幫助他們優化與他們的關係。這就是 GrabUnlimited 擴展至包含行動旅行福利的原因。

And also, we have launched a VIP service, which reflects the very special relationship we have with our most loyal, higher-spending customers across both Mobility and Deliveries. And increasingly, we will expand that type of multi-vertical thinking about the relationship to Financial Services as well, and now that we have the banks in three markets and, of course, a very vibrant and fast-growing Grab financial -- fintech business across all markets.

此外，我們還推出了 VIP 服務，這反映了我們與行動和配送領域最忠誠、消費能力最高的客戶之間的特殊關係。而且，我們將不斷擴展這種關於與金融服務關係的多垂直思維，現在我們在三個市場都有銀行，當然還有一個非常活躍且快速成長的 Grab 金融——涵蓋所有市場的金融科技業務。

So, we fully agree with you that Mobility is a key part of the GrabUnlimited relationship going forward. I would think that in terms of competitors that we see, there are quite often smaller local competitors in each market, plus there's a number of smaller but multi-market competitors.

因此，我們完全同意您的觀點，即行動出行是 GrabUnlimited 未來合作關係的關鍵部分。我認為，就我們看到的競爭對手而言，每個市場通常都有規模較小的本地競爭對手，此外還有許多規模較小但涉及多市場的競爭對手。

Most of those are single vertical. Therefore, they don't have the many levers that we have to grow the relationship with our customers and partners. And in the market where we do have a multi-vertical competitor, as I mentioned earlier, we are growing our [CP] share for the second quarter in a row. At the same time, it's expanding our margin.

其中大多數是單一垂直的。因此，他們不像我們一樣擁有那麼多手段來發展與客戶和合作夥伴的關係。正如我之前提到的，在我們確實擁有多垂直競爭對手的市場中，我們的[CP]份額連續第二季成長。同時，它也擴大了我們的利潤。

So I feel like -- we respect our competitors, but we feel like the formula that we have, where we continue to invest in multi-vertical relationships, we are continuing to improve the technology and the reliability and pricing of our network. We feel that we can concentrate on improving those services and growing through the relationship with our consumers and partners rather than getting too distracted by competitors.

所以我覺得——我們尊重我們的競爭對手，但我們覺得我們擁有的模式是，我們繼續投資於多垂直關係，我們正在繼續改進我們網路的技術、可靠性和定價。我們認為，我們可以集中精力改進這些服務，並透過與消費者和合作夥伴的關係實現成長，而不會被競爭對手分散注意力。

Divya Gangahar from Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Divya Gangahar。

My first question is on the margin drivers for this quarter. Could you elaborate the drivers for the Deliveries margin improvement besides advertising? And specifically on GrabMart, how big is this now? And how are the unit economics versus the Deliveries business? Also on the margin question, just on Mobility, we did see a year-on-year drop in margins. Could you just help us understand the reasons for that?

我的第一個問題是關於本季的利潤驅動因素。除了廣告之外，您能詳細說明一下送貨利潤率提高的驅動因素嗎？具體來說，GrabMart 現在的規模有多大？單位經濟效益與配送業務相比如何？同樣關於利潤率問題，僅就移動性而言，我們確實看到利潤率同比下降。您能幫助我們了解其中的原因嗎？

My second question is on the fintech business. The loan book growth was growing only about 5% to 6% quarter-on-quarter. And you've also noted higher credit provisions as the loan book is scaling. Could you comment on what the NPL currently is?

我的第二個問題是關於金融科技業務的。貸款帳簿季增僅約 5% 至 6%。而且您也注意到，隨著貸款規模的擴大，信貸準備金也會增加。您能評論一下目前的不良貸款狀況嗎？

And what are the indicators that have been tracked to monitor credit quality? Are you also being a bit more conservative on loan disbursals going forward? And given that you've had some traction now in Singapore, what kind of target markets are you attracting for these loans?

那麼，用於監測信貸品質的追蹤指標有哪些？您對未來的貸款發放是否也持更保守的態度？鑑於你們現在在新加坡已經取得了一些進展，你們將吸引哪些目標市場來提供這些貸款？

All right. Divya, you got a lot of questions there. So let me take the margin ones. And Alex, maybe you can take the fintech, on the loan book, since you're still close to it also. You've been seeing that portfolio growing.

好的。Divya，你有很多問題。因此，讓我選取邊距。亞歷克斯，也許你可以把金融科技運用到貸款領域，因為你離它還很近。您已經看到該投資組合不斷成長。

Look, on the margin side on -- I think your first question was around Deliveries. Look, there's a lot of product mix that goes on in the first quarter. And you had a question also how big is Mart. As a business of ours, Mart is still roughly still less than 10% of our Deliveries GMV. But having said that, it's growing much faster also than our other product portfolio within Deliveries.

你看，在利潤方面——我想你的第一個問題是關於交付的。你看，第一季有很多產品組合。你也問過 Mart 的規模有多大。作為我們的業務，Mart 在我們外送 GMV 中的比例仍然不到 10%。但話雖如此，它的成長速度也比我們配送領域的其他產品組合快得多。

The margin in food continues to be very healthy for us as a business overall. Mart also was a star performer in the first quarter for us that we spoke about earlier. So, there's a lot of product mix that you saw coming in into the quarter in terms of margin. You saw also incentives were relatively flat on a year-over-year basis for us. And that also helped some of the margin growth in our business. And our advertising also was 1.7% penetration rate but also contributed through some of the margin improvement that you saw in the business.

對於我們整個企業來說，食品業務的利潤率仍然非常高。正如我們之前提到的，Mart 也是我們第一季表現出色的公司。因此，從利潤率來看，本季你會看到很多產品組合。您還會看到，我們的激勵措施與去年同期相比相對持平。這也有助於我們業務的利潤成長。我們的廣告滲透率也達到了 1.7%，這也為業務利潤率的提高做出了貢獻。

So again, very much (inaudible) moving pieces, Divya. Product mix is part of that, which is really important. And you'll see the fluctuations on this product mix from quarter-on-quarter, depending also on the seasonality of the business itself. Mobility margin was lower on a year-over-year basis, and that was, for us, intentional to some degree because there was a critical part that we wanted to really make sure we build up, which is on the driver side.

所以，再說一次，非常（聽不清楚）感動的事情，Divya。產品組合是其中的一部分，這非常重要。您會看到該產品組合的季度環比波動，這也取決於業務本身的季節性。與去年同期相比，移動利潤率有所下降，對我們來說，這在某種程度上是故意的，因為我們希望真正確保建立一個關鍵部分，即駕駛員側。

If you look at where the level of incentives was higher for us, Deliveries was flat. In terms of Mobility -- in terms of incentive, it was around the Mobility. And what we saw in Q1 was that the number of rides was just outpacing the number of growth that we saw in the GMV. So we were seeing a 25% rides increase on a year-over-year basis versus a GMV of a 17% growth on a year-over-year basis. And we saw MTU also growing at over 20% on a year-over-year basis.

如果你看一下哪裡的激勵程度更高，我們的交付量就持平。就流動性而言——就激勵而言，它圍繞著流動性。我們在第一季看到，乘車次數的成長速度超過了 GMV 的成長速度。因此，我們看到乘車量同比增長了 25%，而 GMV 同比增長了 17%。我們也發現 MTU 的年增長率超過 20%。

So, we wanted to make sure that we have enough supply of drivers out there to make sure that reliability continues to be high and also affordability for our customers also continues to be maintained at the same time. And that's why you saw some of the degradation in terms of margin expansion for us in the mobility space.

因此，我們希望確保有足夠的司機供應，以確保可靠性持續保持高水平，同時也能繼續保持客戶的可負擔性。這就是為什麼你會看到我們在行動領域的利潤率擴張有所下降。

So Alex, on the fintech?

那麼 Alex，您談談金融科技嗎？

Yes. Thanks, Peter. And I would just comment that on -- advertising was a big driver, as you said, Divya. It's particularly gratifying that in a weak -- what is normally a weak quarter for advertising, we managed to increase our penetration of GMV for ads from 1.3% to 1.7%. And a lot of that, which I'm delighted to talk to you about, is that small merchants that usually don't have access to these kinds of sophisticated tools are really flocking to the self-serve capabilities.

是的。謝謝，彼得。我只是想評論一下——正如你所說，廣告是一個巨大的推動力，Divya。尤其令人欣慰的是，在一個通常廣告業務疲軟的季度，我們成功將廣告 GMV 滲透率從 1.3% 提高到 1.7%。我很高興與你們談論其中的大部分內容，那就是通常無法使用這類複雜工具的小商家實際上正在湧向自助服務功能。

So in the quarter, we had a growth of 49% year-on-year of the self-serve adoption of the advertising platform. And the average spend by those active advertisers on the self-serve platform increased by 30%. So that shows that those tools are really working. They're getting the return on advertising sales, which is helping them grow their businesses, which in turn makes the marketplace even more healthy.

因此，本季我們的廣告平台自助服務採用率年增了 49%。這些活躍廣告商在自助服務平台上的平均支出增加了 30%。這表明這些工具確實有效。他們從廣告銷售中獲得了回報，這有助於他們發展業務，進而使市場更健康。

And then the other driver for improved margins was the direct marketing performance. As I mentioned, I gave you the example for Indonesia, but it's true across all the countries that our direct marketing accuracy and performance is improving because of the use of AI in how we do the targeting.

利潤率提高的另一個驅動因素是直接行銷績效。正如我所提到的，我給了印尼的例子，但事實上，在所有國家，由於我們在定位過程中使用了人工智慧，我們的直接行銷準確性和績效都在提高。

Okay. So quickly on to the fintech. Yes, this last quarter, Q1 was the first quarter in which we had loan products from all three banks in the marketplace. So they've just started to grow those loan books. We are not seeing any deterioration yet in the loan quality. So, our NPL is stable quarter-on-quarter. However, as we grow the volume of loans, we do want to make sure the balance sheet is reinforced.

好的。那麼快來談談金融科技吧。是的，上個季度，也就是第一季度，是我們在市場上推出三家銀行貸款產品的第一個季度。因此他們剛開始增加這些貸款。目前我們尚未發現貸款品質有任何惡化。因此，我們的不良貸款環比保持穩定。然而，隨著貸款額度的增加，我們確實希望確保資產負債表得到加強。

So, we are running expected credit losses through the P&L in order to strengthen the balance sheet. And so that's why you see a small increase in the overall loss for the Financial Services segment, because it's driven by that big buildup in [ECL] on the balance sheet growing in tandem with the loan book, which is about 56% year-on-year. So you can see why that would be a large number.

因此，我們透過損益表來計算預期信用損失，以加強資產負債表。這就是為什麼你會看到金融服務部門的整體損失略有增加，因為這是由於資產負債表上的 [ECL] 大幅增加與貸款帳簿同步增長所致，後者同比增長了約 56%。所以你可以明白為什麼這個數字很大。

So we'll maintain that prudent stance. Obviously, it's a great time for us to drive growth now that we have the product in the market. But we are aware that the credit models need to develop and mature. So, we're running those now and we'll keep monitoring that. But for the time being, we're very happy with the performance. We're on track with the plans, and we do not see a deterioration in the non-performing loans.

因此我們將保持謹慎的立場。顯然，既然我們的產品已經上市，現在正是我們推動成長的好時機。但我們意識到信貸模式需要發展和成熟。所以，我們現在正在運行這些，我們會繼續監控。但就目前而言，我們對錶現非常滿意。我們正在按照計劃進行，並且沒有看到不良貸款惡化。

Mark Mahaney, Evercore ISI.

馬克‧馬哈尼 (Mark Mahaney)，Evercore ISI。

I just wanted to ask kind of a separate line of questioning. It has to do with these AV partnerships. I think there's something like MOUs with four autonomous vehicle companies that you've signed. So just -- I know it's early -- I know it will be very early days, but just talk about the anticipated benefits from these. When might we see pilot deployments? And anything at all you could share about the economics?

我只是想問一個不同的問題。這與這些 AV 合作有關。我認為您已經與四家自動駕駛汽車公司簽署了類似諒解備忘錄的內容。所以只是——我知道現在還為時過早——我知道現在還為時過早，但只是談論這些預期帶來的好處。我們什麼時候可以看到試點部署？能分享一些有關經濟學的知識嗎？

Thanks, Mark. Yes, I think we are very excited also about the potential for AVs. That's why we wanted to lean into this space and take a very early stance working with partners. You can see a lot of partners wanting to work with us. I think our leading position in the region obviously makes us an attractive partner, but also the fact that we're leaning into AI at the same time. So, I think we're hopefully a knowledgeable partner for them to work with also.

謝謝，馬克。是的，我認為我們對 AV 的潛力也感到非常興奮。這就是為什麼我們想要進入這個領域並儘早與合作夥伴合作。您可以看到許多合作夥伴希望與我們合作。我認為我們在該地區的領先地位顯然使我們成為一個有吸引力的合作夥伴，但同時我們也傾向於人工智慧。因此，我認為我們也有望成為他們知識淵博的合作夥伴。

Our intention is to really be at the forefront of the exploratory use of this new technology. I won't give you a timeline for pilots because we're obviously in discussion with various governments to get that going. But our intention is to be at the absolute forefront because we want to understand what it's going to take to make this successful.

我們的目的是真正走在這項新技術探索性應用的前端。我不會給你試點的時間表，因為我們顯然正在與各國政府進行討論以啟動該計畫。但我們的目的是走在絕對的最前線，因為我們想了解如何才能成功。

Obviously, fleet operations is something we're very familiar with because of the way we manage our own fleets today. But what will fleet operations look like for AVs, for example. We're also at the forefront of insurance. We have our own general insurance license. We've been distributing insurance in every market for some years now, and that's a very successful, profitable and growing business.

顯然，由於我們今天管理自己的車隊的方式，我們對車隊運作非常熟悉。但是，對於自動駕駛汽車來說，車隊營運會是什麼樣子呢？我們也處於保險業的前沿。我們有自己的普通保險執照。多年來，我們一直在各個市場分銷保險，這是一項非常成功、有利可圖且不斷成長的業務。

But that helps us to become a good partner for these companies also in understanding what the insurance capabilities would be necessary to make them successful also. So I would say, as you said, early days, but you can think of Grab as one of the companies globally that's really leaning into this space.

但這也有助於我們成為這些公司的良好合作夥伴，並了解他們成功所需的保險能力。所以我想說，正如你所說，雖然還處於早期階段，但你可以認為 Grab 是全球真正傾向於這一領域的公司之一。

Jiong Shao from Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的 Jiong Shao。

A lot of questions have been asked. I do have two follow-ups, please. The first is back to fintech. So, I understand your model is slightly different from two of your peers in the region in fintech. But one of your peers is making a lot of money, and the other is making a little bit of money. So, could you perhaps elaborate a bit, sort of tell us the difference in the models you are using, adopting in fintech that created sort of the near-term losses in your fintech.

已經有很多問題被問到。我確實有兩個後續問題，請告訴我。首先是回到金融科技。因此，我知道您的模式與該地區金融科技領域的兩位同行略有不同。但是你的一個同事賺了很多錢，另一個同事只賺了一點錢。那麼，您能否詳細說明一下，告訴我們您在金融科技中使用的模型有何不同，這些模型導致了您的金融科技短期損失。

So that will be helpful. And related to fintech also is that I believe you have talked about the revenue growth reacceleration in the second half. And could you please sort of reiterate and remind us what are some of the key drivers behind that outlook?

這將會很有幫助。與金融科技相關的是，我相信您已經談到了下半年收入成長的重新加速。您能否重申並提醒我們這種前景背後的一些關鍵驅動因素是什麼？

My second question is back to the food delivery business. I think you talked about -- in your prepared remarks about like food/restaurant discovery, if you could share with us some of your early thoughts around the monetization of this kind of in-store food restaurant discovery business as some of your global peers seem to be making quite a bit of money in that particular segment.

我的第二個問題又回到了外送業務。我認為您在準備好的關於食品/餐廳發現的評論中談到了這一點，如果您可以與我們分享一些您對這種店內食品餐廳發現業務貨幣化的早期想法，因為您的一些全球同行似乎在這一特定領域賺了不少錢。

And then on the margins for food, I know you have 4%-plus target given you have had a lot of success in bringing that to 2% now. Could you remind us, is that 4% is sort of two-, three-year target or trajectory, or that's really, really a longer-term target?

關於食品利潤率，我知道你們的目標是 4% 以上，因為你們現在已經成功地將利潤率提高到了 2%。您能否提醒我們，4% 是兩年、三年的目標或軌跡，還是一個真正的長期目標？

Thanks, Jiong. Let me take the first two, and I'll let Peter take the last one on margin expectations. So, you're right, our fintech model is different than the two peers that I think you're referring to is that we have focused initially on supporting partners on the platform, partners that we know very well, where we have both a credit underwriting advantage, but also a collections advantage because of the fact that we're providing to them.

謝謝，囧。讓我來回答前兩個問題，然後讓彼得來回答最後一個關於保證金預期的問題。所以，您說得對，我們的金融科技模式與我認為您提到的兩家同行不同，我們最初專注於支持平台上的合作夥伴，我們非常了解的合作夥伴，我們既有信用承保優勢，也有收款優勢，因為我們為他們提供服務。

And therefore, we can pre-deduct the debt repayment from them. And that's one of the reasons why you see our NPLs are very stable, and we've been able to manage them very accurately.

因此，我們可以預先扣除他們的債務償還金額。這就是為什麼我們的不良貸款非常穩定，而且我們能夠非常準確地管理它們的原因之一。

We want to extend that philosophy as we think about how to lend to consumers as well. So our credit models are most accurate where we know the most about the consumer also. So the same philosophy applies. But that means that we have spent some time developing and deepening the credit modeling for consumers to extend the lending to the consumer market.

當我們思考如何向消費者提供貸款時，我們也想延續這個理念。因此，當我們對消費者了解最多時，我們的信用模型也是最準確的。所以同樣的哲學也適用。但這意味著我們花了一些時間來開發和深化消費者信用模型，將貸款擴展到消費市場。

You can see us starting to do that as we grow our lending, particularly through the banks because the banks have access to even deeper data and obviously have a lower cost of funds advantage as well. So in 2025, an increasing proportion of the lending will be to consumers, but we'll continue to deepen and enhance the relationship we have with lending to partners.

隨著我們貸款業務的成長，你可以看到我們開始這樣做，特別是透過銀行，因為銀行可以獲得更深層的數據，而且顯然還具有較低的資金成本優勢。因此，到 2025 年，貸款面向消費者的比例將會增加，但我們將繼續深化並加強與合作夥伴的貸款關係。

I would say our penetration of drivers is the highest. We're still improving the models there and working on ways to facilitate smaller quanta and different tenures to more drivers. But I think that is starting to plateau. And therefore, that will grow only at the rate at which the number of drivers and the GMV they support, and it comes on to the marketplace.

我想說我們的司機滲透率是最高的。我們仍在改進那裡的模型，並研究如何為更多司機提供更小的量子和不同的任期。但我認為，這一水平已開始趨於穩定。因此，這一成長速度將取決於司機數量和他們支持的 GMV 以及進入市場的速度。

In terms of merchants, we are much less penetrated. And as we develop more and more capabilities for merchants like enhancing our payments, enhancing our Dine Out Discovery, which is the second part of your question, that allows us to see more of their GMV and allows us, therefore, to extend our credit models and extend more lending to them.

就商家而言，我們的滲透率要低得多。隨著我們為商家開發越來越多的功能，例如增強我們的支付功能、增強我們的外出就餐發現功能（這是您問題的第二部分），這使我們能夠更多地了解他們的 GMV，從而使我們能夠擴展我們的信貸模式並向他們提供更多貸款。

And then as I mentioned, the consumer models are the ones which we are very focused on developing now. We are very conscious of the macro environment for that one. So, we'll do it in a prudent way, but there will be an increase in the proportion of lending to consumers during the year.

正如我所提到的，消費者模型是我們現在非常注重開發的模型。我們非常清楚這個宏觀環境。因此，我們會採取謹慎的態度，但今年對消費者的貸款比例將會增加。

In terms of profitability, our fintech business is already profitable like the peers that you mentioned. The increase in the losses is due to the fact that the banks are basically all launching at the same time, particularly in Malaysia and Indonesia, which have only just kind of launched their lending products last quarter.

從獲利能力來看，我們的金融科技業務已經和您提到的同業一樣獲利。損失增加的原因是，各家銀行基本上都同時推出貸款產品，尤其是馬來西亞和印尼的銀行，它們在上個季度才剛推出貸款產品。

So, I think that's to be expected. It's in line with our plan. So, the investment in starting a new bank is there, and it's something we've been flagging over the last several years. But we are retaining our guidance that the banks overall, so all three of the banks collectively, will be profitable by the fourth quarter of 2026. So, it's very much in line with our investment plans for getting those banks up and running.

所以我認為這是可以預料到的。這符合我們的計劃。所以，創辦新銀行的投資是存在的，這也是我們在過去幾年一直在努力的。但我們仍維持我們的預期，即到 2026 年第四季度，這三家銀行整體都將實現盈利。因此，這與我們讓這些銀行開始營運的投資計畫非常一致。

Moving on to your second question. Dine Out Discovery allows us to tap into a much larger TAM than food delivery. So although we're the CP leader on food delivery, we all know that most restaurants will make the majority of their GMV from having people dine in at their stores. We want to be a part of making them successful in attracting people into the stores, and they recognize that our relationship with consumers on an increasingly frequent and loyal basis is a very great asset for them to do that.

繼續回答你的第二個問題。Dine Out Discovery 讓我們能夠利用比食品配送更大的潛在市場。因此，儘管我們是食品配送領域的 CP 領導者，但我們都知道，大多數餐廳的大部分 GMV 都來自於顧客在其店內用餐。我們希望幫助他們成功吸引顧客進店，他們也意識到，我們與消費者之間日益頻繁和忠誠的關係對他們來說是一筆巨大的財富。

And so, we've been extending the capabilities that we have to enhance Dine Out Discovery in line with that kind of trusted marketing relationship that we have with the consumer. We have a lot of data on consumer reviews, for example, for delivery, but we can easily expand that to the adjacent space of consumer reviews for dining out.

因此，我們一直在擴展我們的能力，以增強 Dine Out Discovery，從而與我們與消費者之間建立的這種值得信賴的營銷關係保持一致。我們擁有大量有關消費者評論的數據，例如外帶評論，但我們可以輕鬆地將其擴展到相鄰的消費者外出就餐評論領域。

The merchants are keen on working with us in terms of creating deals to encourage consumers to eat with them. And as they do that, we uniquely can close the loop on those campaigns that they put out there with the first-party data that we have, linking back to loyalty plans or payment that allows them to establish that those consumers come in as they redeem those discounts.

商家熱衷於與我們合作，制定優惠政策，以鼓勵消費者到他們那裡用餐。當他們這樣做時，我們可以透過我們擁有的第一方數據，以獨特的方式完成他們所開展的那些活動的閉環，連結回忠誠度計劃或付款，使他們能夠確定那些消費者在兌換折扣時會光顧。

So, it's a fully transparent closed-loop advertising performance for dine out in exactly the same way as we delivered that for delivery in the past. So the merchants understand very well what the proposition is, and they seem to like it. So, it fits beautifully with what we do already on payments, and so we'll be enhancing the payments capabilities we have for merchants and enhancing the loyalty capabilities as well, all of which help us close that loop.

因此，這是一種完全透明的閉環外食廣告效果，其方式與我們過去提供的外帶廣告效果完全相同。因此，商家非常理解這個主張，而且他們似乎很喜歡它。因此，它與我們在支付方面已經開展的工作完美契合，因此我們將增強商家的支付能力並增強忠誠度能力，所有這些都有助於我們完成這個循環。

The monetization opportunity, therefore, is primarily driven by an increase in the TAM against which we can generate advertising dollars, and that's a very clear partnership model that merchants are used to and that we will push. We're at the very early stages of this. So in many ways, this ramp-up stage is an investment stage. And so -- but we'll begin to monetize in future years rather than in 2025.

因此，貨幣化機會主要取決於我們可以從中產生廣告收入的 TAM 的成長，這是一種商家習慣且我們將大力推廣的非常明確的合作模式。我們正處於這項工作的早期階段。因此，從很多方面來看，這個加速階段就是一個投資階段。所以——但我們將在未來幾年而不是 2025 年開始實現貨幣化。

And Jiong, on your question on the margin for food, you alluded to 4%-plus time frame, et cetera. Look, we're not really tied to any specific timeline to get to the 4%. The good news is that in certain countries, we're already seeing 4%-plus. So we know how to get there. What we are managing the business for our food is to -- for absolute dollar expansion -- EBITDA expansion versus a certain margin percentage because we see the opportunities in growing the food business even more.

Jiong，關於您提到的食品利潤率問題，您提到了 4% 以上的時間範圍等等。你看，我們並沒有真正受限於任何特定的時間表來實現 4% 的目標。好消息是，在某些國家，我們已經看到了4%以上的成長。所以我們知道如何到達那裡。我們管理食品業務的目的是——為了絕對美元擴張——EBITDA 擴張與一定的利潤率百分比，因為我們看到了進一步發展食品業務的機會。

We talked a lot about daily transacting users to monthly transacting users today, and that's just another catalyst for us that we got to do more in the food section for us to actually grow into the TAM that we still have a lot of ways in terms of penetrating in all the countries that we're in here today, especially around also the -- Alex talked about when it comes to dine out capabilities also as well as complementing that with Mart. So that's how we view our margin for our food business.

我們今天談了很多關於每日交易用戶數和每月交易用戶數的問題，這對我們來說是另一個催化劑，我們必須在食品領域做更多的事情，才能真正發展到TAM，我們仍然有很多方法可以滲透到我們今天所在的所有國家，尤其是——Alex 談到外出就餐能力，以及與 Mart 的互補。這就是我們對食品業務利潤率的看法。

I appreciate it. Thank you. We are up against the hour here. So I want to thank all the calls here. Look, we know we had some technical difficulties earlier on. So, I don't know how much of Anthony's opening remarks was captured. Maybe if I can just sum it up here in the next 60 seconds, and I'll close the call here.

我很感激。謝謝。我們現在正處於關鍵時刻。所以我要感謝這裡所有的來電。聽著，我們知道我們之前遇到了一些技術困難。所以，我不知道安東尼的開場白有多少被記錄下來。也許我可以在接下來的 60 秒內在這裡總結一下，然後我就在這裡結束通話。

It was a great set of results for Q1. And this is despite of the seasonal headwinds. And now as we're entering in the second quarter, what we are seeing is the continuing sequential growth across all our businesses today, and we expect to maintain this momentum of growth from 2024 to 2025. EBITDA guidance upgrade also is a reflection of our confidence in achieving this strong performance even after 13 consecutive quarters of EBITDA improvement.

對於第一季來說，這是一個非常好的成績。儘管存在季節性不利因素，但情況仍然如此。現在，我們進入第二季度，看到所有業務均持續環比成長，我們預計這種成長勢頭將在 2024 年至 2025 年保持下去。EBITDA 指引的提升也反映了我們對實現這一強勁業績的信心，即使在 EBITDA 連續 13 個季度改善之後。

There's a lot of questions today around macro and slowing down on demand, et cetera. I hope we've addressed those questions.

今天有很多關於宏觀經濟、需求放緩等問題。我希望我們已經解答了這些問題。

Our business, we've built this business to be countercyclical, and we are well positioned to weather any downturn or any slowdown of the economies. And the investments that we're making around the product set, which some of you got to see also in GrabX a few weeks ago, is an example of where we're going to continue to double down.

我們的業務，我們已經將這項業務打造為反週期業務，並且我們有能力抵禦任何經濟衰退或放緩。我們圍繞產品組合進行的投資（你們中的一些人幾週前也在 GrabX 中看到過）就是我們將繼續加倍投入的一個例子。

We've got more products that we need to build across the food as well as Mart and Mobility and the fintech side, especially on our loan book, and also making our products more affordable, which is really important, especially if we are going to see some economic implications down the line here. But we're very confident in what we're seeing so far, and we're executing also right on strategy.

我們需要在食品、商城、行動和金融科技領域打造更多產品，特別是在我們的貸款帳簿上，同時還要讓我們的產品更實惠，這非常重要，特別是如果我們要看到未來的一些經濟影響的話。但我們對於目前所看到的情況非常有信心，而且我們的策略執行也正確。

So, in closing, I want to thank all the partners and the merchant drivers that we continue to support, and they're supporting us. So, thank you very much. And also to all our customers who continue to use our product day in and day out. We are continuing to see engagement, which is great to see. And also, we continue to see the lifetime value of customers going up. And also thank you for all our shareholders for your support on our business.

最後，我要感謝所有我們繼續支持的合作夥伴和商家司機，他們也支持我們。所以，非常感謝。也感謝所有日復一日繼續使用我們產品的客戶。我們繼續看到參與，這是令人高興的。此外，我們也看到客戶的終身價值不斷上升。同時也感謝所有股東對我們業務的支持。

So, the IR team and myself will be on the road again over the next few weeks. I'll be on the East Coast, in Boston and New York. Alex will be in Hong Kong in a couple of weeks' time. So we'd love to get together with you all. I'm sure you have more questions that we can dialogue on. But thank you for coming at the hour.

因此，IR 團隊和我將在接下來的幾週內再次上路。我會去東岸的波士頓和紐約。幾週後亞歷克斯將抵達香港。因此，我們很高興與大家相聚。我相信您還有更多問題，我們可以進行討論。但感謝您此時前來。

And with this, I'll close the call. Until next quarter. Thanks, everyone.

好了，我的通話就到此結束了。直到下個季度。謝謝大家。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes Grab's first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們。Grab 2025 年第一季財報電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。