Grab Holdings Ltd (GRAB) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us today. My name is Faith and I will be your conference operator for this session. Welcome to Grab's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings results call. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. I will turn it over to Douglas Eu to start the call.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們今天的出席。我的名字是 Faith，我將擔任本次會議的會議主持人。歡迎參加 Grab 2024 年第四季和全年收益業績電話會議。演講者發言後，將進行問答環節。我將把電話會議交給 Douglas Eu 來開始。

Good day, everyone, and welcome to Grab's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings call. I'm Douglas Eu, Director, Investor Relations and Strategic Finance at Grab. And joining me today are Anthony Tan, Chief Executive Officer; Alex Hungate, President and Chief Operating Officer; and Peter Oey, Chief Financial Officer.

大家好，歡迎參加 Grab 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。我是 Douglas Eu，Grab 投資者關係和策略財務總監。今天與我一起的還有執行長 Anthony Tan；總裁兼營運長 Alex Hungate；以及財務長 Peter Oey。

During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements about future events, including our future business and financial performance. These statements are based on our current beliefs and expectations. Actual results could differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties as described on this earnings call in the earnings release and in our Form 20-F and other filings with the SEC. We do not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statements.

在本次電話會議中，我們將對未來事件做出前瞻性陳述，包括我們未來的業務和財務表現。這些陳述是基於我們目前的信念和期望。由於本次收益電話會議中的收益發布、20-F 表和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中所述的多種風險和不確定因素，實際結果可能存在重大差異。我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的責任。

We will also be discussing non-IFRS financial measures on this call. These measures supplement, but do not replace IFRS financial measures. Please refer to the earnings materials for a reconciliation of non-IFRS to IFRS financial measures. For more information, please refer to our earnings press release, remarks, and supplemental presentation available on our IR website. And with that, I will turn the call over to Anthony to deliver his opening remarks before we open it up for questions.

我們也將在本次電話會議上討論非國際財務報告準則的財務指標。這些指標是 IFRS 財務指標的補充，但不能取代。請參閱收益資料以了解非國際財務報告準則與國際財務報告準則財務指標的對帳。欲了解更多信息，請參閱我們的 IR 網站上的收益新聞稿、評論和補充介紹。說完這些，在我們開始提問之前，我將把電話轉給安東尼，讓他致開場白。

Thank you, Doug. Fourth quarter was our strongest quarter ever, closing out 2024 on a strong note as we relentlessly executed on our product and tech-led initiatives. This drove an acceleration in our on-demand GMV to 20% year on year.

謝謝你，道格。第四季度是我們有史以來最強勁的一個季度，由於我們堅持不懈地執行我們的產品和技術主導計劃，以強勁的業績結束了 2024 年。這推動我們的隨選 GMV 同比增長 20%。

Product initiatives launched in 2024 targeted at improving the affordability and reliability of our on-demand services, resulted in a new record of transacting users on Grab. Today, we have achieved strong product market fit with features such as Saver rides and Priority Deliveries across all our markets.

2024 年推出的產品計劃旨在提高我們按需服務的可負擔性和可靠性，從而使 Grab 的交易用戶數量創下了新高。如今，我們已在所有市場中推出了優惠乘車和優先配送等功能，實現了強大的產品市場契合度。

The strong top-line growth, coupled with ongoing cost discipline across our business units, has enabled us to continue scaling the platform in a profitable manner. We achieved our first full year of positive group adjusted EBITDA of $313 million, coming in at the upper end of our upgraded guidance, and positive full-year adjusted free cash flow of $136 million, which improved by $370 million year on year.

強勁的營收成長，加上我們各業務部門持續的成本控制，使我們能夠繼續以獲利的方式擴展平台。我們首次全年實現集團調整後 EBITDA 正值，達 3.13 億美元，達到我們上調指引的上限，全年調整後自由現金流正值，達 1.36 億美元，較上年增加 3.7 億美元。

Building upon the strong foundations we've laid in 2024 to scale our platform, we see plenty of headroom to further outserve the millions of users and partners across Southeast Asia this year. We will continue to evolve our product strategy to harness the power of our ecosystem. As a result, we expect to maintain our on-demand GMV growth momentum in 2025.

在我們於 2024 年奠定的堅實基礎的基礎上，我們看到今年我們還有很大的發展空間，可以進一步為東南亞數百萬用戶和合作夥伴提供服務。我們將繼續改進我們的產品策略，以利用我們生態系統的力量。因此，我們預計 2025 年按需 GMV 將保持成長動能。

And concurrently, we will take a balanced approach to drive a continued expansion of our adjusted EBITDA and adjusted free cash flow, while also being highly disciplined on our use of cash. With that, we now open the call for questions. Operator.

同時，我們將採取平衡的方式，推動調整後 EBITDA 和調整後自由現金流的持續擴大，同時嚴格控制現金的使用。現在，我們開始回答問題。操作員。

(Operator Instructions) Pang Vitt, Goldman Sachs.

(操作員指示) 高盛的 Pang Vitt。

Hi, good morning. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Congratulation as well for another great set of results. Two questions from me, firstly, just wanted to have a better understanding about your product mix shift. Saver is already a third of your deliveries and 26% of the mobility transactions. How should we expect the mix shift to transform over the years, and how will this impact your margins, especially in mobility, where we start to see your margins now dipping to 8.4%? That's question number one.

嗨，早安。非常感謝您給我這個機會。也恭喜您再次取得優異的成績。我有兩個問題，首先，只是想更了解你們的產品結構轉變。Saver 已經佔據了您送貨量的三分之一和移動交易量的 26%。我們應該如何預期未來幾年產品組合的轉變？ 這將如何影響您的利潤率？這是第一個問題。

Question number two, on fintech, we see that the loan book grew to $536 million. Revenue also grew nicely to $74 million. However, EBITDA losses were slightly higher on a quarter-on-quarter basis. Help us understand where you are spending more and when will we see the inflection point towards profitability?

第二個問題，關於金融科技，我們看到貸款總額成長至 5.36 億美元。收入也大幅成長至 7,400 萬美元。不過，EBITDA 損失環比略有上升。請幫助我們了解您在哪些方面花費較多，以及何時我們能看到獲利的轉折點？

Okay. Thanks, Pang, for the questions. This is Alex. Let me answer both of those. So first of all, on the dip in margins and deliveries this quarter, as you know, we don't operate the business on a short-term margin optimization basis, but we are trying to drive absolute EBITDA and free cash flow growth.

好的。謝謝 Pang 的提問。這是亞歷克斯。讓我來回答這兩個問題。首先，關於本季利潤率和交付量的下降，如您所知，我們並不以短期利潤率優化為基礎來經營業務，而是試圖推動絕對 EBITDA 和自由現金流成長。

So you will see these kinds of fluctuations in our segment margins from quarter to quarter. And then sometimes incentives go up, go down, in order to make sure that the marketplace health is in the best possible state and that we're really driving improvements for our consumers.

因此，您會看到我們的分部利潤率每季都會出現這種波動。有時激勵措施會增加或減少，以確保市場健康處於最佳狀態，並且我們確實在為消費者帶來改善。

What's key, though, is like on a full-year basis, if you look back, deliveries margins did expand 70 basis points year on year -- and the mobility margins also remained stable. And obviously, you've seen now this acceleration in growth, which is a big objective for us.

不過，關鍵的是，如果回顧全年，交付利潤率確實比去年同期擴大了 70 個基點，而且流動利潤率也保持穩定。顯然，您現在已經看到了這種成長的加速，這對我們來說是一個很大的目標。

As we look forward to 2025, now trying to address your question on mix, we will continue to grow this momentum .And you will see us focus equally on the high end of our price laddering as we are on the affordability and the price laddering to make sure that we keep that balanced approach to margin growth as well as overall GMV growth.

展望 2025 年，現在嘗試回答您關於混合的問題，我們將繼續保持這種勢頭您會發現，我們同樣關注價格階梯的高端，也關注可負擔性和價格階梯，以確保我們在利潤率成長和整體 GMV 成長方面保持平衡。

And I just -- I could take this opportunity to reconfirm our commitment that the long-term steady-state delivery margins will be 4% plus, in line with the prior guidance that we've given. And then the mobility margin is 9% plus. So we're still very confident that that's where this business will end up.

我只是——我可以藉此機會重申我們的承諾，即長期穩定狀態交付利潤率將達到 4% 以上，與我們之前給出的指導一致。移動利潤率為 9% 以上。所以我們仍然非常有信心這項業務最終會走向那裡。

In terms of some of the growth drivers for our high-value services to better serve that segment and to make sure that we keep the margins balanced, I think our partner strategy is very important for that. So we have supply partners like Bluebird in Indonesia, for example. We have grocery partners, examples of SM and Robinsons in the Philippines; brand partners like Coke, where we've done the Coke&Go initiatives to drive benefits for consumers together. And then, of course, we've got a great set of partners for the banks in each of the three markets: Singtel, [Quark, and MTech], totally blue chip with great customer bases for us to expand our ecosystems.

就我們高價值服務的一些成長動力而言，為了更好地服務該細分市場並確保我們保持利潤平衡，我認為我們的合作夥伴策略對此非常重要。例如，我們在印尼有像 Bluebird 這樣的供應合作夥伴。我們有雜貨合作夥伴，例如菲律賓的 SM 和 Robinsons；我們與可口可樂等品牌合作夥伴共同進行「Coke&Go」計劃，共同為消費者謀福利。當然，我們在三個市場的銀行中都擁有一群優秀的合作夥伴：Singtel、Quark 和 MTech，這些都是藍籌股，擁有龐大的客戶群，可以幫助我們擴展生態系統。

Maybe I'll turn to your second question now, which is on the financial services loan book and the increase in costs as we grow. So firstly, just to recap for everyone on the call, we've got two different businesses within the Financial Services segment. We've got the Digibank and we've got the GFin.

現在我來回答你的第二個問題，即關於金融服務貸款帳簿以及隨著我們的發展而產生的成本的增加。首先，我向電話會議中的每個人回顧一下，我們在金融服務領域有兩項不同的業務。我們有 Digibank，我們有 GFin。

So on the Digibank lending first, the loan products were launched very recently in the fourth quarter. And so we're really growing those fast and scaling while within the credit risk appetite that we've set out. So we do expect the Digibank to continue to see increase in direct costs with these new launches.

首先是 Digibank 貸款，貸款產品是在第四季度剛推出的。因此，我們確實在快速成長並擴大規模，同時滿足我們設定的信用風險偏好。因此，我們確實預計，隨著這些新產品的推出，Digibank 的直接成本將繼續增加。

Firstly, the Flexiloans in Malaysia is just launching for the first time for consumers and then the MSME products for small businesses also just launching in Malaysia and Singapore. So we're supporting those launches currently and that obviously brings some increase in direct expenses.

首先，馬來西亞的 Flexiloans 是首次針對消費者推出，而針對小型企業的 MSME 產品也剛在馬來西亞和新加坡推出。因此，我們目前正在支持這些發布，這顯然會帶來一些直接費用的增加。

But probably more significantly, as you understand, with the loan growth at this rate, for example, GXS in Singapore doubled their loans year on year. We do need to build up balance sheet provision. So we're running these ECL through the expense lines of the P&L as we grow.

但可能更重要的是，正如你所了解的，隨著貸款以這樣的速度增長，例如新加坡的GXS，其貸款同比增長了一倍。我們確實需要建立資產負債表準備金。因此，隨著我們的發展，我們會透過損益表的費用線來運行這些 ECL。

And obviously, as the credit models develop, et cetera, it's good to have a strong balance sheet. But as those credit models develop, we'll be able to sharpen our pencils on that overall. And that will be a driver of the return to profitability because we are confirming what we've told you before that financial services overall will be profitable by the second half of next year. And the banks overall will be profitable by the fourth quarter of next year.

顯然，隨著信貸模式的發展等等，擁有強勁的資產負債表是件好事。但隨著這些信用模式的發展，我們將能夠在整體上完善這一方面的規定。這將成為恢復獲利能力的動力，因為我們正在確認我們之前所說的內容，即到明年下半年金融服務將整體獲利。到明年第四季度，銀行將整體實現獲利。

On the GFin side, so that's the bank side. On the GFin side, it's already providing good risk-adjusted returns on capital. In fact, comfortably above the Grab's own cost of capital. So that's a strongly performing business with good returns. So we'll continue to put that across our ecosystem. Hopefully, that's helpful to give you some character of the way financial services is growing and continuing to improve.

在 GFin 方面，這就是銀行方面。從 GFin 方面來看，它已經提供了良好的風險調整後資本回報率。事實上，這遠高於 Grab 自身的資本成本。所以這是一項業績強勁、回報豐厚的業務。因此，我們將繼續將其推廣到我們的生態系統。希望這能幫助您了解金融服務發展和持續改善的一些特徵。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Venugopal Garre, Bernstein.

維努戈帕爾·加雷，伯恩斯坦。

Hi, good morning, management, and thanks for the opportunity. I have two questions. First one is a question on management's guidance philosophy entering into this year. Now we've seen in prior years that we have demonstrated a track record of beating and raising your numbers through the year. And of course, the implication of that is that you typically start with a softer guide at the start of the year.

嗨，管理層早上好，感謝有這樣的機會。我有兩個問題。第一個問題是關於管理階層今年的指導理念。我們已經看到，在過去幾年中，我們已經取得了出色的成績，並全年實現了數字的提升。當然，這意味著你通常會在年初以一個較為寬鬆的指南開始。

Now, my question is that while this time around your guidance for sales and EBITDA is pretty much in line with consensus, and of course, I'm ignoring Bloomberg's incorrect reporting on sales guidance versus estimates, do you really see this juncture a room for upside to your guidance, and what have you broadly baked into the assumptions? So that's the first question.

現在，我的問題是，雖然這次您對銷售額和 EBITDA 的預期與市場普遍預期基本一致，當然，我忽略了彭博對銷售預期與預期之間的錯誤報道，但您是否真的認為此時您的預期還有上行空間，以及您大致考慮了哪些假設？這是第一個問題。

The second question that I would like to ask is a bit more medium to long-term in nature. If I want to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, how do you plan to balance your priorities and the capital allocation between various initiatives, which I guess I put out there for you? Specifically, I would like to sort of discuss autonomous vehicles versus the speculated, widely speculated, innovation M&A as well as your expansion into Digibank. So how would you balance between these probably exciting, but relatively more resource-intensive banks? Thanks.

我想問的第二個問題比較偏向中長期問題。如果我想退一步來看看更大的角度來看，您計劃如何平衡您的優先事項和各項計劃之間的資本分配，我想我已經為您提出這個問題了？具體來說，我想討論自動駕駛汽車與猜測、廣泛猜測的創新併購以及您對 Digibank 的擴張。那麼，您將如何在這些可能令人興奮但相對資源密集的銀行之間取得平衡呢？謝謝。

Venu, this is Peter. Let me take the first one around guidance philosophy. And I'm going to ask Alex and Anthony also just to chime in around your second part of the question, around where we think we'll -- from your question around priorities and capital allocation. So let me just tackle the first one on revenue -- on guidance itself. The 2025 EBITDA guidance is a 40% to 50% growth relative to 2024 levels.

Venu，這是彼得。讓我先談談指導哲學。我還要請亞歷克斯和安東尼就您問題的第二部分發表看法，即我們認為我們將如何做——從您關於優先事項和資本配置的問題開始。因此，讓我先解決關於收入的第一個問題——關於指導本身。2025 年 EBITDA 預期較 2024 年水準成長 40% 至 50%。

And the revenue growth that we're forecasting also is somewhere between 19% and 20%, 22%. It's a strong top line growth. If you look at where we landed in 2024, we landed revenue somewhere around the 21% mark on a constant currency basis.

我們預測的營收成長也在 19% 到 20% 或 22% 之間。這是強勁的營收成長。如果你看看我們在 2024 年的成績，以固定匯率計算，我們的收入約為 21%。

Now around guidance philosophy, and if you look at since we went public two to three years ago now, there is a pattern that you're seeing. And as a management team, we embrace the philosophy of [bin raise] when it comes to our guidance, especially on the EBITDA side as well as on the revenue.

現在圍繞著指導理念，如果你看看我們兩三年前上市以來，你會看到一種模式。作為管理團隊，我們在製定指導方針時秉承「提高」的理念，尤其是在 EBITDA 方面以及收入方面。

So when we put out numbers at the beginning of each year, we do bake in some potential uncertainties that we can predict, and I'll give you a couple of examples of that. We looked at, from a seasonality perspective -- especially in the first quarter, the first quarter is a very important quarter for us, where we look at the Ramadan and the Lunar New Year, where this year, it's a little bit odd where we do have a convergence of those two festivities all in the same quarter versus last year or the previous years, where the Ramadan actually extends to the second quarter of the business.

因此，當我們在每年年初公佈數據時，我們確實會考慮一些我們可以預測的潛在不確定因素，我會給你舉幾個例子。我們從季節性的角度來看，特別是在第一季度，第一季度對我們來說是一個非常重要的季度，我們在這一季度迎來了齋月和農曆新年。

The good news is we're seeing a very strong January so far, but it's too early to tell. So there is some uncertainty that we're baking in on the revenue guidance and the EBITDA guidance.

好消息是，到目前為止，我們看到一月份的表現非常強勁，但現在下結論還為時過早。因此，我們在收入預測和 EBITDA 預測中存在一些不確定性。

Now as the year progresses, and you've seen this in the last couple of years, the outlook improves. And we make those adjustments to reflect the latest outcomes in the business. And also, we always remind our investors to take that lens when it comes to considering our guidance, especially at the beginning of the year when we put out there.

現在隨著時間的推移，正如您在過去幾年中看到的，前景正在改善。我們做出這些調整是為了反映業務的最新成果。此外，我們總是提醒我們的投資者在考慮我們的指導時要從這個角度考慮，特別是在年初我們發布指導時。

Let me just finish off. Most importantly, we always take, as a management team, a balanced approach when we are driving two things. We're driving top line growth, and you're seeing that momentum in the business. Second half was critical for us to exit strongly because that will set us up with 2025 and you saw that on-demand GMV growth at 20% on a quarter -- on a year-over-year basis and also maximizing adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow on an absolute basis. and we're very committed in growing that EBITDA and free cash flow in 2025.

讓我把話說完。最重要的是，作為管理團隊，我們在推動兩件事時始終採取平衡的方法。我們正在推動營收成長，你們也看到了業務的這種勢頭。下半年對我們強勢退出至關重要，因為這將為我們進入 2025 年奠定基礎，您會看到按需 GMV 季度增長率為 20%——與去年同期相比，同時也最大化了調整後的 EBITDA 和自由現金流。我們致力於在 2025 年實現 EBITDA 和自由現金流的成長。

So, Venu, hopefully, that will give you some picture and also how we think about our guidance philosophy. And your second part of the question, there's an area here where I think we would need to address, which I'll ask Alex and Anthony to chime in.

所以，Venu，希望這能給你一些啟發，以及我們如何看待我們的指導理念。關於您問題的第二部分，我認為我們需要在這裡討論一個問題，我會請亞歷克斯和安東尼來參與討論。

Yes. Thanks, Peter. I totally agree, Peter. And hey, Venu. So first of all, with regards to what Peter shared, I think we are very bullish. We believe that there is plenty of headroom to drive organic growth in Southeast Asia specifically in mobility, in food, in groceries.

是的。謝謝，彼得。我完全同意，彼得。嘿，Venu。首先，就彼得所分享的內容而言，我認為我們非常樂觀。我們相信，東南亞地區尤其是在交通、食品和雜貨領域還有足夠的空間來推動有機成長。

The addressable market is still significantly under-tapped. We've shown and proven we've had an all-time high of 44 million MTUs and this represents about 17% growth year on year, but we are still only serving 1 in 20 Southeast Asians. So we are actually just scraping the surface in terms of users that we can outserve across this region. So what does that mean for us? We are going to double down on the core because the core is still expected to grow strongly. And on top of this, we are also looking at the new growth areas.

潛在市場仍未充分開發。我們已經證明並展示了我們的MTU數量已達到歷史最高水平4400萬，同比增長約17％，但我們仍然只為東南亞五分之一的人提供服務。因此，就我們能為該地區的用戶提供服務而言，我們實際上還只是取得了一些成績。那麼這對我們意味著什麼？我們將加倍投入核心業務，因為預計核心業務仍將強勁成長。除此之外，我們也在尋找新的成長領域。

Now specifically, you called out AV or autonomous ride hailing. For me, personally, AI and robotics are top of mind. As you know, when large language models were first released, we leaned in very early last year to drive GenAI adoption across the org.

現在具體來說，您提到了 AV 或自動駕駛叫車。就我個人而言，人工智慧和機器人技術是首要關注的。如您所知，當大型語言模型首次發佈時，我們在去年年初就開始推動整個組織採用 GenAI。

Now on AVs, we've been watching this space closely and are very excited about the long-term opportunity related to this tech. I personally and our leadership has actually taken many rights across the world, across various brands, just to understand and be forward leaning in this space. We believe we are in prime position in supporting the AV transition over the next few years. And we have a very significant role to play in this region by a hybrid AV human fleet.

現在就 AV 而言，我們一直在密切關注這個領域，並對與這項技術相關的長期機會感到非常興奮。我自己和我們的領導階層實際上已經在世界各地、跨多個品牌取得了許多權利，只是為了了解這個領域並保持前瞻性。我們相信，我們在支持未來幾年 AV 轉型方面處於領先地位。透過混合自動駕駛汽車人力車隊，我們將在該地區發揮非常重要的作用。

When we think about our right to win, we have strong relationships with players around the world as well as OEMs. We have the highest utilization across the whole region. We have a long track record of working hand in hand with regulators and governments to ensure passenger and driver safety. So as we think about this AV transition, we're also proactively thinking about how can we play a part on upskilling our driver partners as part of this shift because that is core to our mission and an important aspect of our strategy.

當我們考慮我們的獲勝權利時，我們與世界各地的玩家以及 OEM 都建立了牢固的關係。我們的利用率是整個地區最高的。我們長期與監管機構和政府攜手合作，確保乘客和司機的安全。因此，當我們思考這種 AV 轉型時，我們也在積極思考如何在這一轉變中發揮作用，提高我們的駕駛員合作夥伴的技能，因為這是我們使命的核心，也是我們策略的重要方面。

As we've shown before, we've collaborated with global partners like Mastercard and Microsoft and have a track record of working governments and regulators to up-skill workers, to upscale our driver partners and to equip them for more tech-enabled future. So going forward, I can confirm we are in active discussions with regulators. We intend to work closely every government in Southeast Asia to drive this forward.

正如我們之前所展示的，我們已經與萬事達卡和微軟等全球合作夥伴進行了合作，並且與政府和監管機構合作提升了工人的技能，提升了我們的司機合作夥伴的水平，並為他們配備了更多技術支持的未來。因此，展望未來，我可以確認我們正在與監管機構進行積極的討論。我們打算與東南亞各國政府密切合作，推動這項進程。

We do anticipate a longer road to mainstream AV adoption in other parts of Southeast Asia, and this is because road infra is different, regulations are different, but we are very excited about this space. So in the meantime, we are actively pursuing several partnerships, and we'll look to share more updates in the coming weeks. Alex, go ahead.

我們確實預計東南亞其他地區採用主流 AV 的道路會更長，這是因為道路基礎設施不同，法規也不同，但我們對這個領域感到非常興奮。因此，與此同時，我們正在積極尋求多種合作夥伴關係，並期待在未來幾週分享更多更新資訊。亞歷克斯，繼續說。

Thanks, Anthony. And on the question of allocation towards organic growth, particularly Indonesia, we're very happy with the acceleration of our on-demand GMV overall as a group. In Indonesia, in particular, on demand, GMV grew 10% quarter on quarter, so faster than our overall group average actually. It was an important focus for us in 2024, and Indonesia will remain a key focus for us to serve our drivers and merchants in 2025.

謝謝，安東尼。關於有機成長的分配問題，特別是印度尼西亞，我們對整個集團按需 GMV 的成長感到非常高興。特別是在印度尼西亞，由於需求旺盛，GMV 環比增長了 10%，因此實際上比我們整個集團的平均水平要快。這是我們 2024 年的一個重要關注點，而印尼仍將是 2025 年我們為司機和商家提供服務的重點。

I mentioned the partnership with Blue Bird earlier, and we're also expanding our EV fleet with BYD. So we're adding more drivers and more merchants in the quarter. The online earnings for those drivers per hour and the average deliveries merchants earnings have also increased.

我之前提到與 Blue Bird 的合作，我們也在與比亞迪合作擴大我們的電動車隊。因此，我們在本季增加了更多的司機和商家。這些司機每小時的線上收入和送貨商家的平均收入也有所增加。

So I think we have a very healthy and fast-growing marketplace. And we continue to invest, not just in Indonesia but across the region on some of our tech advantages like mapping, hyper batching, just in time allocation as well. These are very difficult for competitors to replicate. So we're doubling down on organic opportunities in Indonesia and across the region.

所以我認為我們擁有一個非常健康且快速成長的市場。我們將繼續投資，不僅在印度尼西亞，而且在整個地區，投資於我們的一些技術優勢，如地圖繪製、超級批量處理、準時分配等。這些對於競爭對手來說很難複製。因此，我們正在加倍努力尋找在印尼及整個地區的有機機會。

Venu, just to add to Alex, from an inorganic perspective, because your question is around capital allocation and also we do balance priorities but then just chime in here a little bit just to give context. As you know, as a management team, we have a very high bar when it comes to inorganic opportunities. And these opportunities we evaluate on a case-by-case basis, but the bar is very high. We have to make sure that key synergies and value add is instrumental in these inorganic opportunities. And this is very consistent with our capital allocation policy that we've shared many times with all of the investors.

Venu，我只是想從無機角度補充一下 Alex 的問題，因為你的問題是關於資本配置的，而且我們確實平衡了優先事項，但在這裡我稍微插話一下，提供一下背景信息。如您所知，作為管理團隊，我們對無機機會的標準非常高。我們會根據具體情況來評估這些機會，但門檻非常高。我們必須確保關鍵的協同作用和增值在這些無機機會中發揮重要作用。這與我們多次與所有投資者分享的資本配置政策非常一致。

In terms of the capital allocation framework, it's always been very consistent. Organic growth comes first in the business, and that's to drive EBITDA growth and free cash flow. And second is having that high bar on M&As that I just talked about. And then third, when there is excess capital, as a priority, we will return it to our shareholders. So we're continuing to deploy those capital allocation framework and 2025 is no different for us, so hopefully that's helpful in addressing your questions.

就資本配置框架而言，它始終非常一致。有機成長是業務的首要任務，這將推動 EBITDA 成長和自由現金流。第二就是我剛才談到的對併購有很高的要求。第三，當資本過剩時，我們會優先返還給股東。因此，我們將繼續部署這些資本配置框架，2025 年對我們來說也沒有什麼不同，所以希望這有助於回答您的問題。

Alicia Yap, Citigroup.

花旗集團的 Alicia Yap。

Hi, thank you. Good morning, management. Congrats on the solid set of results and thanks for taking my questions. I have two questions. First is that can you share the updates on the cross-selling of the delivery business with Food and Mart? Can you compare and contrast the AOV for users that use both versus the user who only use food delivery? And how do you anticipate the increase in the AOV and the wallet spend growth of user on your platform over the next couple of years?

你好，謝謝。早安，管理層。恭喜您取得如此豐碩的成果，感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個問題。首先，能否分享一下配送業務與 Food and Mart 交叉銷售的最新進展？您能否比較一下同時使用兩種服務的使用者和僅使用外送服務的使用者的 AOV 嗎？您預計未來幾年您平台上的用戶平均訂單價值 (AOV) 和錢包支出將如何成長？

Second question is, can management elaborate on how you foresee AI further enhancing your cost optimization efforts and the demand generation capabilities. Specifically, what is management view on China's DeepSeek model versus your experience working with OpenAI as your lighthouse partner?

第二個問題是，管理階層能否詳細說明您如何預見人工智慧將進一步增強您的成本優化工作和需求產生能力。具體來說，與您與 OpenAI 作為燈塔合作夥伴合作的經驗相比，管理層對中國的 DeepSeek 模式有何看法？

Thanks for your questions, Alicia. Let me take the first one on the ecosystem and cross-sell because that's at the core of our strategy. You're right, cross-sold users continue to show improving uplifts QoQ. So let me see, users who transacted in both Food and Mart have average spend, which is 4 times higher and then frequency uplifts are 2.5 times higher. So this is a really key linkage in our strategy, and it gives us an advantage versus vertical -- single vertical competitors in on-demand.

謝謝你的提問，艾莉西亞。讓我先談談生態系統和交叉銷售，因為這是我們策略的核心。您說得對，交叉銷售用戶的數量繼續呈現環比增長的趨勢。所以讓我看看，在食品和超市進行交易的用戶的平均消費額高出 4 倍，頻率提升高出 2.5 倍。所以這是我們策略中一個非常關鍵的環節，它使我們在按需領域比單一垂直競爭對手更具優勢。

The retention rate is also twice as high than the Food-only owner users. So that's super important as we continue to grow and look for efficiencies with the scale.

留存率也比只吃食物的業主用戶高出兩倍。因此，當我們繼續發展並尋求規模效率時，這一點非常重要。

The ecosystem doesn't end with on-demand, though. As you know, the growth of financial services is giving us lots of opportunities, too. And I don't know if I should -- maybe I'll flag also that the grocer is growth. Grocery deliveries is actually faster than the food delivery growth for the second quarter in a row. We're very excited about the potential here.

然而，生態系統並不會隨著按需而終結。眾所周知，金融服務的成長也為我們帶來了許多機會。我不知道是否應該——也許我還會指出雜貨店正在成長。事實上，雜貨配送連續第二季的成長速度超過了食品配送的成長速度。我們對這裡的潛力感到非常興奮。

The penetration of Groceries is still very low in our ecosystem, and we intend to continue to grow this with strong partnerships market by market. I think what we've done with Jaya in Malaysia demonstrates what can be done to grow online deliveries as a share of overall revenue.

在我們的生態系統中，雜貨的滲透率仍然很低，我們打算透過強大的合作夥伴關係逐一市場地繼續擴大這一比例。我認為我們在馬來西亞與 Jaya 合作的做法證明了我們可以採取哪些措施來提高線上配送在總收入中的份額。

And the tech that we've developed there very closely in Malaysia, we're now sharing with some partners like SM and Robinsons in Philippines and Transmart in Indonesia. And that is powering this exceptional growth that we're seeing on demand side. So for the first time now, we're actually instead of selling from Food into Mart, we're now looking at selling the other direction from Mart back into Food from -- these new users who are coming into our ecosystem from partnerships.

我們在馬來西亞緊密開發的技術，現在我們正與一些合作夥伴分享，例如菲律賓的 SM 和 Robinsons，以及印尼的 Transmart。這推動了我們在需求方面看到的異常成長。因此，現在我們第一次實際上不再將食品賣到超市，而是考慮以另一個方向將商品從超市賣回食品，這些新用戶是透過合作夥伴進入我們生態系統的。

And then the financial services side, I think you can see from some of the slides that we sent out this morning. There's great acquisition opportunities. 90% of the GXBank customers in Malaysia came from Grab and the acquisition cost is minimal. The speed at which we've been able to gather deposits and open new accounts we're now up to 4 million new accounts across the three banks is very, very pleasing indeed. And it shows the power of the ecosystem and the brand in low customer acquisition and cross-sell.

然後是金融服務方面，我想您可以從我們今天上午發出的一些幻燈片中看到。有很大的收購機會。馬來西亞GXBank 90%的客戶都來自Grab，取得成本極低。我們吸收存款和開設新帳戶的速度非常快，現在三家銀行的新帳戶數量已達 400 萬個，這確實非常令人滿意。這也體現了生態系統和品牌在低客戶獲取和交叉銷售方面的力量。

Maybe if I can just jump in and talk about the GenAI and specifically, you referred to OpenAI, DeepSeek and other cost optimization efforts. So I think Alicia, as a company, we've been actively leaning in -- really leaning in, I would say, in embracing GenAI right from the beginning. OpenAI is one where we've been very blessed with being the first lighthouse partner that they chose in Southeast Asia, and we built a strong partnership with them to solve complex problems that drive benefits for our ecosystem users and partners. But we also work with other multimodal, foundational models across the world.

也許我可以直接談論 GenAI，具體來說，您提到了 OpenAI、DeepSeek 和其他成本優化工作。因此我認為，作為一家 Alicia 公司，我們從一開始就積極地傾向於擁抱 GenAI。我們非常榮幸成為 OpenAI 在東南亞選擇的首個燈塔合作夥伴，並與他們建立了牢固的合作夥伴關係，共同解決複雜問題，為我們的生態系統用戶和合作夥伴帶來利益。但我們也與世界各地的其他多模式基礎模型合作。

And let me share one example where we use our multimodel, our merchant AI assistant. Our merchant AI assistant today really addresses a major pain point. Today many merchants, especially long-tail merchants, they don't have account managers and they need help. These merchants always create more insights, especially insights on how to boost sales, how to target users and they are really starving for these solutions. So what do we do? How did we leverage AI? We saw this as a perfect opportunity for GenAI to enhance the earnings potential or our partners on our platform.

讓我分享一個我們使用多模型、商家 AI 助理的例子。我們今天的商家AI助理確實解決了一個主要的痛點。如今很多商家，特別是長尾商家，沒有客戶經理，需要幫忙。這些商家總是創造更多的見解，尤其是關於如何提高銷售、如何定位用戶的見解，他們非常渴望這些解決方案。那我們該怎麼辦？我們如何利用人工智慧？我們認為這是 GenAI 提升其平台合作夥伴獲利潛力的絕佳機會。

By leveraging GenAI, we developed a self-serve chat bot, providing our merchant partners with precise recommendations, answering what is business related, example, top-selling menu items to how to be an even better chef to how to be even a packaging master for their customers and really gives them ways to optimize, for example, their recommendations, their ad spend and their user targeting. As a result, we saw a 24% uplift in ad spend among merchants who engage with our merchant AI assistant versus merchants who did not. And we saw sales uplift among those margins as well.

透過利用 GenAI，我們開發了一個自助聊天機器人，為我們的商家合作夥伴提供精準的建議，回答與業務相關的問題，例如，最暢銷的菜單項目、如何成為更好的廚師、如何成為客戶的包裝大師，並真正為他們提供優化方法，例如，他們的建議、他們的廣告支出和用戶定位。結果發現，與我們的商家 AI 助理合作的商家相比，廣告支出增加了 24%。我們也看到這些利潤率的銷售額有所提升。

Now, for all our merchant partners who hear this, we highly encourage you to try this solution and I hope that you will find it a useful tool to generate stronger sales and let's continue to innovate together. But in short, I will say this. We are going to continue leaning heavily, Alicia, in GenAI and we're exploring ways where we can further integrate these solutions that drive higher sales, more productivity improvements for our workforce. 2025 is the year of agentic AI, and I foresee we all as a leadership, foresee that we will be rolling out even greater personalized solutions for our ecosystem partners.

現在，對於所有聽到此消息的商家合作夥伴，我們強烈鼓勵您嘗試此解決方案，我希望您會發現它是一個有用的工具，可以產生更強勁的銷售，讓我們繼續共同創新。但簡而言之，我會這麼說。艾莉西亞，我們將繼續大力依賴 GenAI，我們正在探索進一步整合這些解決方案的方法，以提高銷售額和員工的工作效率。 2025 年是代理人工智慧之年，我預見到我們作為領導階層，將為我們的生態系統合作夥伴推出更個人化的解決方案。

Mark Mahaney, Evercore.

馬克‧馬哈尼 (Mark Mahaney)，Evercore。

Okay. Two questions, please. First, MTU net adds were relatively high. Just talk about the source of where you're bringing in new users? And anything you can tell about their engagement levels versus prior cohorts? And then I'll ask about consumer incentives. So they have jumped up both on mobility and the delivery side as a percentage of GMV to pretty high levels, especially versus the last year or two.

好的。請問兩個問題。首先，MTU淨增量相對較高。請談談您從哪裡獲得新用戶？與之前的群體相比，您能談談他們的參與度嗎？然後我會問有關消費者激勵的問題。因此，他們在移動性和配送方面的 GMV 比例都上升到了相當高的水平，尤其是與過去的一兩年相比。

What I'm trying to understand is, is that something structural or is that consumer incentive spend in advance or in alignment or in support of this some of the newer products that you're rolling out on the value side, high end, low end? So just talk about what the -- how we should think about those consumer incentives if they're to support these sort of relatively new product launches and therefore, over time, they should step down in intensity or whether we are structurally at a higher level?

我想了解的是，這是結構性的嗎？所以，只需討論一下——如果要支持這些相對較新的產品發布，我們應該如何看待這些消費者激勵措施，因此，隨著時間的推移，它們的強度應該逐漸降低，或者我們是否在結構上處於更高的水平？

Mark, let me take the incentive questions, and I'll ask Alex to chime in on the MTU front, it's a key focus area for Alex, and we're seeing some really good fruits coming out of that. So on the incentives, you'll see that our incentives, mobility and deliveries move up and down quarter on quarter.

馬克，讓我來回答激勵問題，我會請亞歷克斯談談 MTU 方面的問題，這是亞歷克斯關注的重點領域，我們看到了其中的一些非常好的成果。因此在激勵措施方面，您會看到我們的激勵措施、流動性和交付量每季都在上下波動。

And that's deliberate, and that's intentional, and it's in line with our expectations. A lot of that is driving product adoption in our business. And you referred to the MTU growth, for an example, as a question of that. But also, we're driving frequency in terms of our products.

這是故意的，是有意的，而且符合我們的預期。其中很大一部分正在推動我們業務中的產品採用。例如，您提到了 MTU 成長，這就是一個問題。而且，我們也在提高產品的頻率。

Now as you know, we, as a business don't operate to short-term margin percentages, but really focused on that dollar EBITDA free cash flow and we reinvest in those areas to get product adoption. So there is a function of really going to market and using that lever to drive growth in the business.

如您所知，作為一家企業，我們並不追求短期利潤率，而是真正專注於 EBITDA 自由現金流，並在這些領域進行再投資以獲得產品採用。因此，它確實具有進入市場並利用槓桿來推動業務成長的功能。

But you'll see that incentives move up and down. If you step back, actually, if you look at our mobility incentives and margin, it's actually stable on a year-over-year basis at 8.6%. And if you look at our deliveries margin, on a full 12 months, it was up 90 basis points also. So we use that, the lever as a critical factor on -- especially on product adoption. Alex, do you want to just chime in on the MTU side?

但你會發現激勵措施時高時低。實際上，如果你退一步來看我們的流動性激勵和利潤率，它實際上與去年同期相比保持穩定，為 8.6%。如果你看看我們的交貨利潤率，全年 12 個月來看，它也上漲了 90 個基點。因此，我們將其作為一個關鍵因素——尤其是在產品採用方面。亞歷克斯，你想從 MTU 的角度發表一下意見嗎？

Yes, Mark, you're right. The MTU growth, in fact, acceleration is something we've been really focused on. One of the big drivers is the affordability products, both for deliveries and mobility. A third of the new MTU this quarter were either new or reactivated users and a lot of that is coming from the affordable products. We are balancing that with high LTV users, as I mentioned earlier, particularly travelers, which has been a big driver of new MTUs as well, typically spending something like more than 2 times what a domestic user would spend.

是的，馬克，你說得對。事實上，MTU 的成長和加速是我們真正關注的事情。其中一個重要驅動因素是產品價格實惠，無論是對於配送還是移動而言。本季新增 MTU 中有三分之一是新用戶或重新啟用的用戶，其中許多來自經濟實惠的產品。正如我之前提到的，我們正在與高 LTV 用戶（尤其是旅行者）取得平衡，這也是新 MTU 的一個重要推動力，他們的支出通常為國內用戶的 2 倍以上。

So we have high-value premium users growth as well. I can confirm that the product holdings of two or more is still more than two-thirds of our users. And so you -- speaking to Alicia's question earlier, we've still got really good cross-sell ecosystem performance. And then the older cohorts are also still spending more.

因此，我們的高價值高端用戶也實現了成長。我可以確認，持有兩種或兩種以上產品的用戶仍然占我們用戶的三分之二以上。所以你 - 之前回答艾莉西亞的問題時，我們的交叉銷售生態系統仍然表現良好。年齡較大的群體支出也較多。

So we're seeing deliveries the same growth across all cohorts, even for the pre-COVID cohorts of 2018, 2019. So I think what you're seeing is that our product-led strategy more than our incentives is what's enabling us to grow MTUs faster than the market.

因此，我們看到所有群體的交付量都呈現相同的成長，即使是 2018 年和 2019 年新冠疫情之前的群體也是如此。因此，我認為您所看到的是，我們的產品主導策略比我們的激勵措施更能讓我們以比市場更快的速度成長 MTU。

And although as Peter said, we need incentives from time to time to launch new products, and we have been launching some really significant new products, for example, group orders and family accounts are viral products where the ecosystem starts to grow itself. That's a quarter-to-quarter feature rather than a structural change.

儘管正如彼得所說，我們需要不時地提供激勵措施來推出新產品，而且我們一直在推出一些真正重要的新產品，例如，團購和家庭帳戶就是病毒式產品，生態系統開始自行發展。這是季度性特徵，而非結構性變化。

Jiong Shao, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的邵炯（Jiong Shao）。

I have two questions. But firstly, I have a follow-up what Peter mentioned earlier on the guide. It's great, Peter, you said, you started off the year with something conservative and the base case is beat and race, that's all we'd like to hear.

我有兩個問題。但首先，我要跟進彼得先前在指南中提到的內容。太好了，彼得，你說過，你以保守的立場開啟了新的一年，基本情況是擊敗對手和贏得種族，這就是我們所想聽到的。

Your guidance indicated the -- although you didn't guide on the GMV, but only guide on revenue, but it appears to indicate the acceleration in growth in '25 vis-a-vis '24 and your GMV revenue have indeed accelerated over the last two quarters in a row. I just want to confirm that's still kind of the expectation reasonable to expect the accelerating growth in both Food and Ride is going to continue in 2025 vis-a-vis '24? That's my first follow-up. And I have two separate questions later.

您的指引表明——儘管您沒有對 GMV 進行指引，而只是對收入進行了指引，但它似乎表明 25 年相對於 24 年的增長加速，並且您的 GMV 收入在過去兩個季度確實連續加速。我只是想確認這仍然是合理的預期，預計 2025 年食品和乘車業務相對於 24 年將繼續加速成長？這是我的第一次跟進。稍後我還有另外兩個問題。

Sure, Jiong. So we are seeing good momentum on on-demand GMV growth. We put it, it's been a momentum that been intentional on our part and driving growth. We just talked about MTUs, for an example. But at the same time, we're also watching the dollar EBITDA and the free cash flow that we can generate from the on-demand business.

當然，炯。因此，我們看到按需 GMV 成長勢頭良好。我們認為，這是我們有意為之並推動成長的勢頭。例如，我們剛才討論了 MTU。但同時，我們也關注美元 EBITDA 和按需業務所能產生的自由現金流。

What we expect going into 2025 is for that on-demand GMV growth momentum to continue. Alex talked a lot about product features and investments that we're making. Anthony talked about AI, also as part of that. So it's a combination of all these things that we feel that we want to continue to fuel growth in our business. And we saw a very strong exit in Q4 that really sets us up nicely as we go into 2025. Hopefully, that gives you a bit of picture.

我們預計，到 2025 年，按需 GMV 成長動能將持續維持。亞歷克斯談了很多關於我們的產品特性和我們正在進行的投資。安東尼也談到了人工智慧，這是其中的一部分。所以，綜合考慮所有這些因素，我們覺得我們希望繼續推動業務成長。我們在第四季度看到了非常強勁的退出，這為我們進入 2025 年做好了良好的準備。希望這能給你一點印象。

My first question is that I know you talked about autonomous driving robotaxi and EVs in your press release, access to 50,000 BYD EVs. I want to -- I know also Anthony mentioned those topics earlier as well. I want to understand a couple of things here. One, by using EVs, naturally, they don't burn gas, would that matter? How does that affect your margins?

我的第一個問題是，我知道您在新聞稿中談到了自動駕駛計程車和電動車，以及 50,000 輛比亞迪電動車。我想——我也知道安東尼之前也提到過這些話題。我想在此了解幾件事。第一，使用電動車自然不會燃燒汽油，這有關係嗎？這對你的利潤有何影響？

Like does that make any difference for your long-term EBITDA margins for your Rides business, for the Mobility business? And then back to the robotaxi, I know you are focusing on sort of the autonomous driving/robotaxi. But on a high level, just for me to understand, well, drivers costs are kind of low in Asia. How the calculus work? Does that make sense at all to have robotaxi in places like Southeast Asia or even in China? Just want to pick your brand on this. So that's my first question. Let me stop here.

例如，這對您的乘車業務和行動業務的長期 EBITDA 利潤率有什麼影響嗎？然後回到機器人計程車的話題，我知道你專注於自動駕駛/機器人計程車。但從高層次來看，據我了解，亞洲的駕駛成本相當低。微積分如何運作？在東南亞甚至中國等地推出自動駕駛計程車是否有意義？只是想選擇您的品牌。這是我的第一個問題。我就講到這裡。

Jiong, this is Alex. Let me take that. Firstly, EVs, we're a triple bottom line company. So we want to encourage cleaner transportation. But we are also seeing that it reduces the drivers running costs.

炯，這是亞歷克斯。讓我來接手。首先，就電動車而言，我們是一家三重底線公司。所以我們希望鼓勵更乾淨的交通。但我們也看到它降低了司機的運作成本。

And that's important to us because our objective over time is to push out the price reliability boundary every day, improving bit by bit. And that means that we can take a larger share of the overall transportation TAM in Southeast Asia. We've been doing that successfully with a lot of tech improvements as we've talked about on this call. But one of the drivers is the cost of ownership of the vehicles for our drivers. So we know that EVs, particularly with the price point being coming down rapidly over the last couple of years are one of the ways to unlock even better affordability.

這對我們很重要，因為我們的目標是每天逐步突破價格可靠性的界限。這意味著我們可以佔據東南亞整體運輸TAM的更大份額。正如我們在這次電話會議上討論的那樣，我們透過大量技術改進成功地做到了這一點。但其中一個因素是我們的司機擁有車輛的成本。因此，我們知道，電動車，特別是過去幾年價格迅速下降的電動車，是實現更高可負擔性的途徑之一。

The infrastructure in Southeast Asia is improving. A lot of governments are leaning into this. So that's why we want to encourage EVs and work with some of these big partners like BYD.

東南亞基礎設施不斷改善。許多政府傾向於此。這就是我們希望鼓勵電動車並與比亞迪等一些大合作夥伴合作的原因。

On AV, unit economics will also continue to improve. We know that the supply chain for AVs is built on top of the supply chain for EVs. So a lot of what I just said about the improving unit costs will translate through into AVs over time. This is not going to happen overnight, particularly in Southeast Asia where labor costs are lower than places like the US but it will happen. So as Anthony said earlier, we're really intensely leaning in making sure that we are proactive and we're one of the key players in leading how it is introduced safely into this region.

在 AV 方面，單位經濟效益也將持續改善。我們知道，自動駕駛汽車的供應鏈是建立在電動車供應鏈之上的。因此，我剛才所說的關於單位成本改善的大部分內容將隨著時間的推移轉化為 AV。這不會在一夜之間發生，特別是在勞動成本低於美國等地的東南亞，但它會發生。正如安東尼之前所說，我們確實非常傾向於確保我們採取積極主動的態度，並且我們是引領它安全引入該地區的關鍵參與者之一。

I'll just add to Alex. Alex is totally right, Jiong. The key as we think about AV is not just AVs. AV is a hybrid fleet complemented by human fleet. And we see a very nice symphony, where there are areas that are poorly served, say there are parts in Singapore, if you do live in Singapore, you will see that the areas that are, I would say, harder to serve by humans drivers, and this is where robotaxi would really keep improving fulfillment rate and customer satisfaction. So those are places that are ripe for, I would say, introduction and pilots in the future.

我只想補充一下 Alex 的意見。Alex 完全正確，Jiong。我們思考 AV 時的關鍵不僅僅是 AV。AV車隊是一支以人力為補強的混合車隊。我們看到了一首非常美妙的交響樂，有些地區的服務很差，例如新加坡的某些地區，如果你住在新加坡，你會發現有些地區，我想說，人類司機更難服務，而這正是 Robotaxi 真正能夠不斷提高履行率和客戶滿意度的地方。所以我想說，這些地方已經為未來的引進和試點做好了準備。

Okay. Great. And actually, my second question is about Singapore. We have seen the news today, maybe yesterday, it was about a corporate tax rebate, which is fine, but it's more interestingly relevant to you guys. We have seen some like talking about vouchers, pretty sizable vouchers for individuals and family to spend for those of us living Singapore, in this case.

好的。偉大的。實際上，我的第二個問題是關於新加坡的。我們今天或昨天看到了新聞，是關於企業退稅的，這很好，但更有趣的是它與你們有關。我們看到一些人談論代金券，對於我們這些居住在新加坡的人來說，個人和家庭可以使用的代金券數量相當可觀。

Could you sort of elaborate on exactly what are some of those incentives? How long is that for the whole year? Or does that affect Grab's business? I remember a couple of years ago or maybe longer ago, when you went IPO, Singapore was a sizable part of the business, 40% or maybe even higher. But what is Singapore now as a revenue contribution to Grab, the overall revenue now?

您能否詳細說明一下這些激勵措施到底是什麼？全年有多長？或者這會影響 Grab 的業務嗎？我記得幾年前或更早以前，當你上市時，新加坡佔了相當大一部分業務，40%甚至更高。但是新加坡現在對 Grab 的營收貢獻是多少？現在的整體收入是多少？

Jiong, let me take that. Look, the budget just came out a couple of days ago, we're still going through it. We're assessing it. I have to commend to the Singapore government in how they're supporting the economy and also for the everyday Singaporeans out there. We were excited in terms of what they're doing in terms of vouchers, as you mentioned, tax rebates also for the businesses.

炯，讓我來接手這個。你看，預算幾天前才剛出來，我們還在審議中。我們正在評估。我必須讚揚新加坡政府對經濟以及一般新加坡民眾的支持。我們對他們在優惠券方面採取的措施感到非常興奮，正如您所說，他們還為企業提供退稅。

Those are the right things. And again, Singapore is a very thriving economy where there's a lot of very strong businesses here which is growing. And we believe that these things on tax rebate actually will benefit a lot of our small merchants that we operate with in Singapore today. We want to see more merchants in Singapore that we can actually support for the vouchers. I think it's great for the economy overall for the everyday Singaporean.

這些都是正確的事。新加坡的經濟體非常繁榮，有許多實力雄厚的企業不斷發展。我們相信，這些有關退稅的事情實際上將使我們今天在新加坡合作的許多小商家受益。我們希望看到新加坡有更多商家能夠真正為優惠券提供支援。我認為這對新加坡的整體經濟和一般民眾都有好處。

Again, they'll benefit from that. And also, we see that as -- hopefully as a beneficiary of that as they use transport services and also use our food services. So I think overall, Singapore is thriving. Singapore is advancing, we're in lock and set with the Singapore government on many areas. And we feel that with all the services that we have, including the banks, we're set up to continue to grow Singapore.

再次，他們會從中受益。而且，我們希望他們能從中受益，因為他們使用運輸服務，也使用我們的食品服務。所以我認為總體來說，新加坡正在蓬勃發展。新加坡正在進步，我們在許多領域與新加坡政府步調一致。我們認為，憑藉我們擁有的所有服務，包括銀行服務，我們有能力繼續促進新加坡的發展。

Divya Kothiyal, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Divya Kothiyal。

Two questions from me. Just maybe it's a follow-up on the mobility margin. Product mix is definitely one of the reasons as we noticed that the Saver rides is 300 basis points higher. But just curious to know if there are other factors that have also affected the mobility margin in the fourth quarter. Maybe if you can comment on the competitive landscape and how our market shares have evolved in various countries in 2024 versus 2023?

我有兩個問題。這或許是對移動邊緣的後續關注。產品組合肯定是原因之一，因為我們注意到 Saver 利率高出了 300 個基點。但我只是好奇想知道是否還有其他因素也影響了第四季的流動性利潤。您能否評論一下競爭格局以及 2024 年與 2023 年相比我們在各國的市佔率如何變化？

And my second question is on corporate costs. They fell another 13% year-on-year in the fourth quarter. So we've been executing pretty well on corporate costs despite the tremendous growth we've seen in orders. Could you comment on the outlook for 2025 and if you can continue seeing this kind of savings?

我的第二個問題是關於企業成本。第四季又較去年同期下降了13%。因此，儘管訂單量大幅成長，但我們在企業成本方面的執行仍然相當良好。您能否評論一下 2025 年的前景，以及是否還能繼續看到這種節省？

Thanks, Divya. Let me take the first one on the mobility business. We are very focused on growing affordability. You can see that has helped us expand MTUs. It's also helped us to improve frequency across all cohorts.

謝謝，Divya。讓我先談談行動業務。我們非常注重提高負擔能力。您可以看到，這有助於我們擴展 MTU。它也幫助我們提高所有群體的頻率。

So we know this is a good strategy. We've launched some new capabilities in this sense. We got family accounts for mobility, which is, I think, going to help us with frequency and retention. We've also got high-value rides and some new partnerships like Blue Bird, advanced booking for those critical like airport type rides is also a new launch across all regions.

所以我們知道這是一個很好的策略。我們在這方面推出了一些新功能。我們設立了家庭行動帳戶，我認為這將有助於我們提高頻率和保留率。我們還提供高價值的乘車服務，並與 Blue Bird 等一些新公司建立了合作夥伴關係，針對機場類型乘車等關鍵服務的提前預訂也是在所有地區推出的新功能。

There are always competitive factors from time to time in various markets. I can confirm in every market we remain the competitive choice leader for mobility across all of our markets. Overall, across the region, we maintained or grew our CP position. So I think we're highly competitive, particularly with these new markets.

各個市場總是時常存在著競爭因素。我可以確認，在每個市場中，我們仍然是所有市場中行動出行領域的競爭性選擇領導者。總體而言，在整個地區，我們保持或提升了我們的 CP 地位。因此我認為我們的競爭力很強，特別是在這些新市場。

We are the only multi-vertical competitor across all markets in the region. So that gives us cross-sell benefits, that gives us scale benefits and that allows us to continue to invest in some of the new technology like AI where we can amortize those costs across a much larger user base. So I think on that basis, we're well set up, I think, for continued mobility growth. And I would, as I mentioned earlier, but I say it again, reiterate that we believe that our mobility business will reach 9% plus margins in the steady state.

我們是該地區唯一涵蓋所有市場的多垂直競爭者。這為我們帶來了交叉銷售優勢和規模優勢，使我們能夠繼續投資於人工智慧等一些新技術，我們可以在更大的用戶群中攤提這些成本。因此我認為，在此基礎上，我們已經為持續的流動性成長做好了準備。正如我之前提到的，但我再說一遍，我們相信我們的行動業務在穩定狀態下將達到 9% 以上的利潤率。

Divya, on your copper cost question, you're right. We've made a lot of progress in optimizing our cost base as we exit 2024. And what you saw in the fourth quarter was a combination actually of reductions in variable costs and staff cost also as we continue to tune our cost structure in the business.

Divya，關於銅成本的問題，你是對的。在 2024 年即將結束時，我們在優化成本基礎方面已經取得了很大進展。您在第四季度看到的實際上是變動成本和員工成本的下降，因為我們繼續調整業務成本結構。

Now as we think about 2025, with the strong on-demand GMV that we expect, there are variable cost components, things like cloud, direct marketing costs, which are housed in the central cost bucket actually will increase, that's natural, but we'll offset those by operating leverage also, which we'll expect to realize from the continued volume growth that we're going to see in 2025.

現在，當我們思考2025年時，隨著我們預期的強勁按需GMV，存在可變成本組成部分，例如雲端、直接行銷成本，這些都包含在中央成本中，實際上會增加，這是自然的，但我們也會透過經營槓桿來抵消這些成本，我們預計這將從2025年持續的銷售成長中實現。

Stepping back, we expect to see more efficiency gains in our cost base as a percentage of revenue. But we do anticipate copper cost to increase just naturally because on a year-over-year basis, on an absolute dollar basis as we make those investments in on-demand GMV growth as well as also as we make into investments like what we talked about earlier in the call regarding AI for an example, continued IoT investments, mapping infrastructure which are all important pillars in making sure the foundation of our business continues to be solid.

退一步來說，我們預期成本基礎佔收入的百分比將進一步提高效率。但我們確實預期銅成本將自然增加，因為按年同比計算，按絕對美元計算，隨著我們對按需 GMV 增長進行投資，以及我們對諸如我們之前在電話會議上談到的關於人工智能的投資，例如持續的物聯網投資、地圖基礎設施投資，這些都是確保我們業務基礎繼續穩固的重要支柱。

So we're making also those long-term growth investments as part of our regional corporate costs. But stepping back, what I can say is, if you look at our group EBITDA to revenue margins, what we expect in 2025 as a revenue margin, we look to improve that by about 200 to 300 basis points in 2025. And that's because we're driving more operating leverage also in the business. So hopefully, that gives you a bit of a picture in terms of how we think about operating leverage and cost structure of our business.

因此，我們也將這些長期成長投資作為我們區域公司成本的一部分。但退一步來說，我可以說的是，如果你看看我們集團的 EBITDA 與收入利潤率，即我們預計 2025 年的收入利潤率，我們希望在 2025 年將其提高約 200 至 300 個基點。這是因為我們也在業務中提高經營槓桿。所以希望這能讓您稍微了解我們如何看待我們業務的營運槓桿和成本結構。

Thomas Chong, Jefferies.

傑富瑞 (Jefferies) 的托馬斯張 (Thomas Chong)。

My question is about our advertising monetization. Given our focus in technology and AI, can management share about the percentage of our merchants using our advertising solution? And how are we actually seeing their business performance versus both without advertising?

我的問題是關於我們的廣告貨幣化。鑑於我們對科技和人工智慧的關注，管理層能否分享使用我們的廣告解決方案的商家百分比？那麼，與不投放廣告相比，我們如何實際看到它們的業務表現呢？

And my second question is about our 2025 guidance, in particular, about the Forex trend. Given that the US dollar, I think, appreciate/depreciate from time to time should we expect there will be two sets of year-on-year growth numbers taking into account what is for local currency versus those in US dollars on a quarterly basis?

我的第二個問題是關於我們 2025 年的指導，特別是關於外匯趨勢。鑑於美元不時升值/貶值，我認為，我們是否應該預期將出現兩組同比增長數字，同時考慮到本幣與美元按季度計算的情況？

Thomas, it's Alex. Let me take a question on advertising, which obviously is one of the big drivers of our long-term deliveries margin target and is increasingly also contributing to mobility as well. The penetration of GMV for advertising did increase again, improved again to 1.7% in the fourth quarter from 1.4% in the same period last year. So that is a proof point of our continued traction we're getting on advertising.

湯瑪斯，我是亞歷克斯。讓我回答一個關於廣告的問題，這顯然是我們長期交付利潤目標的主要驅動力之一，也對行動性的貢獻越來越大。廣告在GMV的滲透率確實再次上升，從去年同期的1.4%提升至第四季的1.7%。這顯示我們在廣告領域持續保持強勁勢頭。

One of the big drivers for that is the penetration of our merchant base, which I think was part of your question. I can confirm that the penetration of the merchant base increased significantly over the course of that year. So more of our merchants are using our demand generation tools. The retention of those merchants on the advertising platform is very high, something around 75 percentage points. So this is working for them.

其中一個重要驅動因素是我們商家群體的滲透率，我認為這也是您問題的一部分。我可以確認，在那一年裡，商家群體的滲透率顯著提高。因此，越來越多的商家正在使用我們的需求產生工具。這些商家在廣告平台上的留存率非常高，大概在75個百分點左右。所以這對他們來說是有用的。

Return on advertising sales is between 5 and 8 times on the platform, so depending upon the size of the merchant and the strength of their brand. So our -- and yet the penetration of our merchants is still less than half. So I think over the medium term, and in fact, throughout 2025, we will continue to drive the penetration. We will continue to improve the capabilities of the self-serve tools in particular. So that the very large merchant base that's on the Grab ecosystem, these tools available so that they can continue to grow their business and become successful growth businesses on the Grab platform.

該平台的廣告銷售回報率在 5 到 8 倍之間，因此取決於商家的規模和品牌實力。然而，我們的商家滲透率仍然不到一半。因此我認為從中期來看，事實上到 2025 年，我們將繼續推動滲透。我們將繼續提高自助服務工具的功能。因此，對於 Grab 生態系統中非常龐大的商家群體來說，這些工具可以讓他們繼續發展業務，成為 Grab 平台上成功的成長型企業。

Thomas, on your FX question, I think it was around how FX was impacting to our current guidance. Let me give you a few data points. On a year-to-date basis, we're facing about a year-over-year headwinds of roughly about 30 basis points. And on a QoQ basis, FX headwind is roughly about 140 basis points on a year-to-date. And for the rest of 2025, from a guidance perspective, internally, we're using our prevailing spot rate in determining our current outlook for full year GMV and revenue.

托馬斯，關於你提到的外匯問題，我認為這是關於外匯如何影響我們當前的指導。讓我給你一些數據點。從年初至今，我們面臨的同比阻力大約是 30 個基點。與上一季相比，今年迄今外匯逆風約為 140 個基點。對於 2025 年剩餘時間的指導，從內部來看，我們將使用現行的現貨匯率來確定全年 GMV 和收入的當前前景。

And we'll continue to monitor that spot rate, obviously, it moves around quite a fair bit. Again, part of that, going back to a couple of questions around our guidance philosophy. And at the beginning of the year, we tend to be a little bit more conservative on the FX side also, but that's how we're thinking about the FX movements.

我們將繼續監測現貨匯率，顯然，它波動相當大。再次，回顧一下有關我們的指導理念的幾個問題。在年初，我們在外匯方面也傾向於更加保守，但這就是我們對外匯走勢的看法。

Thank you. I will hand it over to Peter for any closing remarks.

謝謝。我將把發言權交給彼得，讓他做最後發言。

Great. Thanks very much. Thanks, everyone, for listening and investing the time for us today. In closing, Anthony, Alex and I would just like to express our sincere appreciation to all our drivers and merchant partners. We had a great 2024. All of that was not able to be accomplished without the support from all our drivers around Southeast Asia and through our merchant partners that we serve.

偉大的。非常感謝。感謝大家今天的聆聽和為我們付出的時間。最後，安東尼、亞歷克斯和我要向我們所有的司機和商家夥伴表達最誠摯的感謝。我們度過了美好的 2024 年。如果沒有我們東南亞所有司機以及我們所服務的商家合作夥伴的支持，我們就不可能實現這一切。

Also to all our customers out there, who is vividly continuing passionately to use our products. Thank you very much and also for our shareholders for all their continued trust in Grab, and also for the Grabbers out there who's really been speed heading the growth of our business in the last 12 months and really just supporting the business. So thank you to all these folks.

也感謝所有熱衷於繼續使用我們產品的客戶。非常感謝，也感謝我們的股東對 Grab 的持續信任，也感謝 Grabbers 在過去 12 個月裡真正加速了我們業務的成長並給予了我們大力支持。我向所有這些人表示感謝。

Together with the IR team, Ken, Doug and I will be on the road over the next few weeks. We'll be attending various IR conferences across the US West Coast and also in Asia in the coming weeks. We'd love to see you, meet up with you and approach us -- any of us, the IR team if you wish to meet up as we spend some time meeting investors over the next few weeks. So thanks again, everyone, and have an awesome day. All right, until next quarter.

接下來的幾週，Ken、Doug 和我將與 IR 團隊一起上路。我們將在接下來的幾週內參加美國西海岸和亞洲的各種 IR 會議。我們很高興見到您，與您見面並與我們聯繫 - 如果您希望見面，請與我們中的任何人、IR 團隊聯繫，因為我們將在接下來的幾週內花一些時間與投資者會面。再次感謝大家，祝福大家有美好的一天。好的，直到下個季度。

This concludes Grab's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings results call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

這就是 Grab 2024 年第四季和全年收益業績電話會議的結果。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。