Guild Holdings Co (GHLD) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Guild Holdings Company second-quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

女士們、先生們，下午好，歡迎參加 Guild Holdings Company 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this call will be recorded.

（操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次通話將會被錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Investor Relations.

我現在想將會議轉交給投資者關係部門。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone.

謝謝大家，大家下午好。

Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that comments on this conference call may contain certain forward-looking statements regarding the company's expected operating and financial performance for future periods and industry trends.

在開始之前，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議的評論可能包含某些有關公司未來時期預期營運和財務業績以及行業趨勢的前瞻性陳述。

These statements are based on the Company's current expectations and preliminary results for any portion of the quarter may not be indicative of full quarter results and are subject to management and other customary review procedures.

這些報表是基於公司目前的預期，本季任何部分的初步結果可能並不代表整個季度的結果，並須接受管理層和其他慣例審查程序。

Actual results for future periods may differ materially from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements.

未來時期的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述明示或暗示的結果有重大差異。

Due to a number of risks or other factors that are described in greater detail under the section titled Risk Factors in Gail's most recently filed annual report on Form 10 K and other reports subsequently filed with the US Securities and Exchange Commission.

由於 Gail 最近提交的 10 K 表格年度報告以及隨後向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他報告中標題為「風險因素」的部分更詳細地描述了許多風險或其他因素。

Additionally, today's remarks will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures.

此外，今天的評論將涉及某些非公認會計準則財務指標。

Reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures to the corresponding GAAP measures can be found in our earnings release furnished today with the SEC and are also available on Guild Investor Relations website.

非 GAAP 財務指標與相應 GAAP 指標的調整可以在我們今天向 SEC 提供的收益報告中找到，也可以在 Guild 投資者關係網站上找到。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Chief Executive Officer, Terry Schmidt.

我現在想將電話轉給執行長特里·施密特。

Terry?

特里？

Good afternoon and thank you for joining us to discuss our second quarter results and strategic update.

下午好，感謝您加入我們討論我們的第二季業績和策略更新。

With me today are David Neylan, our President; and Amber Kramer, our CFO.

今天和我在一起的有我們的總統戴維·內蘭（David Neylan）；以及我們的財務長安柏·克萊默 (Amber Kramer)。

We are very pleased to share our second quarter results, which clearly demonstrate the effectiveness of our strategies.

我們非常高興分享第二季的業績，這清楚地證明了我們策略的有效性。

By remaining disciplined and consistent.

保持紀律和一致。

We are not only delivering remarkable growth while gaining share, but we are positioning Guild for even stronger performance as rates and the housing market further improve.

我們不僅在擴大市場份額的同時實現了顯著的成長，而且隨著利率和房地產市場的進一步改善，我們還將 Guild 定位為實現更強勁的業績。

There are three key elements to Gil's strategy that we continue to deliver on one, increasing our market share during the industry downturn through accretive acquisitions in organic recruiting to investing in our people and technology platforms, and three, delivering excellent service to retain customers for life and earn referral business.

吉爾的策略有三個關鍵要素，我們將繼續實施，一是在行業低迷時期透過在有機招聘方面進行增值收購，投資於我們的人員和技術平台來增加我們的市場份額，三是提供卓越的服務以終身留住客戶並賺取推薦業務。

The successful execution of this strategy is evident in our results.

這項策略的成功執行從我們的結果中可見一斑。

In the second quarter, we delivered adjusted net income of $30.7 million compared to $8 million in the prior quarter.

第二季度，我們調整後淨利為 3,070 萬美元，而上一季為 800 萬美元。

This impressive growth was primarily driven by our origination business and reflects our unwavering commitment to the retail mortgage channel.

這一令人印象深刻的成長主要是由我們的發起業務推動的，反映了我們對零售抵押貸款管道的堅定承諾。

In the second quarter, total originations reached $6.5 billion, a substantial increase of $2.7 billion or 69% from the first quarter.

第二季的發起總額達65億美元，較第一季大幅增加27億美元，增幅為69%。

In Q2, we also significantly outpaced the industry growth rate estimated at 14%.

第二季度，我們也顯著超過了行業估計的 14% 成長率。

This again underscores our market share gains and the strength of our business model.

這再次凸顯了我們的市場佔有率成長和我們業務模式的優勢。

Moreover, we experienced a 43% increase in volume for the quarter compared to the prior year's second quarter.

此外，與去年第二季度相比，本季的銷量成長了 43%。

Turning to our servicing center segment, our unpaid principal balance increased to $89.1 billion at the quarter end cash flow from our servicing continues to grow, providing a natural hedge and complements our originations business.

談到我們的服務中心部門，我們的未付本金餘額在季度末增加到 891 億美元，來自我們服務的現金流持續增長，提供了自然對沖並補充了我們的起源業務。

Combined with our local sales teams and our Guild 360 client retention systems, we are well positioned to originate and recapture business across all market cycles.

結合我們的本地銷售團隊和 Guild 360 客戶保留系統，我們處於有利地位，可以在所有市場週期中發起和重新奪回業務。

Specifically, our ongoing investments in our platform and technology reinforce our confidence in our ability to continue to drive outsized growth to that end, we are proud to have recently debuted our internal artificial intelligence platform, GuildGPT.

具體來說，我們對平台和技術的持續投資增強了我們對繼續推動超額成長的能力的信心，為此我們很自豪最近推出了我們的內部人工智慧平台 GuildGPT。

This platform set new standards for speed and efficiency, allowing team members to easily access an AI assistant for instant delivery of customized information on company products, guidelines and related questions.

該平台設定了速度和效率的新標準，使團隊成員能夠輕鬆存取人工智慧助手，即時交付有關公司產品、指南和相關問題的客製化資訊。

This innovation frees up our team to serve their partners and customers, speed and accuracy.

這項創新使我們的團隊能夠騰出時間來快速、準確地為他們的合作夥伴和客戶提供服務。

Overall, we believe this quarter is a strong indicator of the power of Guild.

總體而言，我們認為本季是 Guild 實力的強大指標。

Beyond these impressive results, we can clearly see the long-term value being created by our successful execution of Guild's growth strategy.

除了這些令人印象深刻的成果之外，我們還可以清楚地看到我們成功執行 Guild 成長策略所創造的長期價值。

Our investments to expand our sales force organically and through acquisitions are creating a large network of loan officers who live and serve their communities across the United States.

我們透過收購有機地擴大銷售團隊的投資正在創建一個龐大的信貸員網絡，他們生活在美國各地並為其社區提供服務。

This represents an opportunity to further accelerate our growth in the coming quarters.

這是我們在未來幾季進一步加速成長的機會。

We have a strong conviction that we are only starting to realize the full power of the Guild platform as we continue to achieve market share gains, grow our servicing portfolio and operate them as integrated businesses to create customers for life.

我們堅信，隨著我們不斷獲得市場份額、擴大我們的服務組合並將其作為綜合業務運營以創造終身客戶，我們才剛開始認識到 Guild 平台的全部力量。

We're confident in our strategy, our execution capabilities, our platform and our ability to deliver long-term value for our shareholders.

我們對我們的策略、執行能力、平台以及為股東創造長期價值的能力充滿信心。

Thank you for your continued support and interest in Guild.

感謝您對Guild的持續支持與關注。

With that, I will turn the call over to David.

這樣，我就把電話轉給大衛。

David?

大衛？

Thank you, Terry.

謝謝你，特里。

I'd like to share some additional perspectives on our recent performance and strategic direction.

我想就我們最近的業績和策略方向分享一些額外的觀點。

In the second quarter, our origination channel demonstrated marked progress after adjusting for contingent liabilities this segment reached profitability even as we integrated and began ramping up our most recent large acquisition, Academy Mortgage.

在第二季度，我們的發起管道在調整或有負債後取得了顯著進展，即使我們整合並開始加大最近的大型收購 Academy Mortgage 的力度，該部門也實現了盈利。

During the quarter, Academy's team in excess of 1,000 personnel were successfully onboarded into Guild systems and the resulting origination volume increase demonstrates the capabilities of our expanded team and our ability to gain market share profitably even in challenging market conditions.

本季度，Academy 超過1,000 名人員的團隊成功加入Guild 系統，由此產生的原始數量的增加證明了我們擴大的團隊的能力以及我們即使在充滿挑戰的市場條件下也能盈利地獲得市場份額的能力。

Regarding our servicing segment, we are well positioned to recapture more business as homeowners opt to refinance or purchase new properties when the housing market dynamics and interest rates stabilize.

關於我們的服務部門，我們處於有利位置，可以重新奪回更多業務，因為當房地產市場動態和利率穩定時，房主會選擇再融資或購買新房產。

With approximately 20% of our unpaid principal balance at rates above 6% and more than 5.25%, we've identified a considerable portion of our loan portfolio able to benefit for new financing opportunities as rates decrease.

由於我們約 20% 的未付本金餘額的利率高於 6% 和超過 5.25%，我們發現，隨著利率下降，我們的貸款組合中有相當一部分能夠受益於新的融資機會。

Beyond refinancing options, we believe our integrated technology infrastructure uniquely positions us for sustained future growth.

除了再融資選擇之外，我們相信我們的綜合技術基礎設施為我們未來的持續成長奠定了獨特的地位。

The synergy between our $89 billion servicing portfolio and our Guild 360 sales and marketing platform equips our sales team to provide superior service for future home purchases.

我們 890 億美元的服務組合與 Guild 360 銷售和行銷平台之間的協同作用使我們的銷售團隊能夠為未來的購屋提供優質的服務。

We continuously analyze our portfolio for signs of intentions to buy sell or relocate, enabling proactive customer engagement and ongoing opportunities to create customers for life.

我們不斷分析我們的投資組合，尋找購買、出售或搬遷意圖的跡象，從而實現主動的客戶參與和持續創造終身客戶的機會。

Moving forward, we believe we will see additional growth beyond our historical volumes as we continue to execute our strategy of leveraging Guild's integrated technology, diverse product range, exceptional service and strong brand across all channels.

展望未來，我們相信，隨著我們繼續執行利用 Guild 的整合技術、多樣化產品系列、卓越服務和跨所有管道的強大品牌的策略，我們將看到超越歷史銷售的額外成長。

Furthermore, we believe we will capture additional market share as we realize the benefits of our expanded platform and team of loan officers able to leverage their networks to accelerate growth in the coming years.

此外，我們相信，隨著我們認識到我們擴大的平台和信貸員團隊能夠利用其網路在未來幾年加速成長的好處，我們將獲得更多的市場份額。

In summary, we are confident that our differentiated strategy proven model and scalable platform, positioned yield for continued success and expansion in the dynamic mortgage market landscape now and well into the future.

總而言之，我們相信我們的差異化策略經過驗證的模型和可擴展的平台能夠為當前和未來動態的抵押貸款市場格局中的持續成功和擴張奠定基礎。

I'll now hand the call over to Amber, who will provide a more detailed financial review.

我現在將把電話轉給 Amber，她將提供更詳細的財務審查。

Thank you, David.

謝謝你，大衛。

As is our standard practice, my comments will focus on sequential quarter comparison.

按照我們的標準做法，我的評論將集中在連續季度比較。

For the second quarter of 2024, we generated $6.5 billion of total loan originations compared to $3.9 billion in the first quarter.

2024 年第二季度，我們的貸款總額為 65 億美元，而第一季為 39 億美元。

Net revenue totaled $286 million compared to $232 million in the prior quarter, which generated net income attributable to Guild of $38 million compared to a net income of $28 million in the first quarter.

淨收入總計 2.86 億美元，而上一季為 2.32 億美元，歸屬於 Guild 的淨利潤為 3,800 萬美元，而第一季的淨收入為 2,800 萬美元。

Adjusted net income of $31 million or $0.49 per diluted share, and adjusted EBITDA was $42 million.

調整後淨利為 3,100 萬美元，或稀釋後每股收益 0.49 美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 4,200 萬美元。

Focusing on our origination segment, we realized a net loss of $3 million, a meaningful improvement from the prior quarter.

重點關注我們的原創細分市場，我們實現了 300 萬美元的淨虧損，比上一季有了顯著改善。

Notably, after adjusting for contingent liabilities, we would have generated positive net income for the segment in the quarter.

值得注意的是，在調整或有負債後，我們本季該部門將產生正的淨利潤。

We are pleased about our solid performance in the origination segment while continuing to ramp up the Academy acquisition.

我們對原創領域的穩健表現感到高興，同時繼續加強對學院的收購力度。

Our gain on sale margin came in at 326 basis points compared to 364 basis points in the prior quarter.

我們的銷售利潤率成長了 326 個基點，而上一季為 364 個基點。

Unfunded originations.

無資金來源。

Year to date, the gain on sale margin is 340 basis points, which moved for timing related adjustments and is in line with our expectations gain on sale margins on pull-through adjusted lock volume was 315 basis points compared to 290 basis points in the prior quarter.

Year to date, the gain on sale margin is 340 basis points, which moved for timing related adjustments and is in line with our expectations gain on sale margins on pull-through adjusted lock volume was 315 basis points compared to 290 basis points in the prior四分之一.

And total pull-through adjusted lock volume was $6.5 billion compared to $4.6 billion in the prior quarter.

總拉動調整鎖定量為 65 億美元，上一季為 46 億美元。

For our servicing segment, our portfolio grew to $89 billion.

對於我們的服務部門，我們的投資組合成長至 890 億美元。

We reported net income of $70 million compared to net income of $84 million in the first quarter.

我們公佈的淨利潤為 7000 萬美元，而第一季的淨利潤為 8400 萬美元。

Our servicing portfolio continues to be a valuable source for ongoing cash flow, future opportunities for loan recapture, and it reinforces our customer for life strategy.

我們的服務組合仍然是持續現金流、未來貸款回收機會的寶貴來源，並強化了我們的終身客戶策略。

Our balance sheet remains strong and provides us with the flexibility to continue to invest in our growth.

我們的資產負債表依然強勁，為我們提供了繼續投資於成長的靈活性。

Turning to liquidity.

轉向流動性。

As of June 30th, cash and cash equivalents totaled $102 million, while unutilized loan funding capacity was $376 million, and the unutilized mortgage servicing rights lines of credit was $214 million based on total committed amounts and borrowing base limitations.

截至 6 月 30 日，現金和現金等價物總計 1.02 億美元，而根據承諾總額和借款基礎限制，未使用的貸款融資能力為 3.76 億美元，未使用的抵押貸款服務權信貸額度為 2.14 億美元。

Maintaining a well-positioned balance sheet continues to be a key priority for Guild.

維持良好的資產負債表仍然是 Guild 的首要任務。

Our leverage ratio, which has been updated to be defined as recourse debt, excluding HMBS liability, divided by tangible equity, was 1.9 times at quarter end, a strong indicator of our prudent financial management.

我們的槓桿率已更新為追索債務（不包括 HMBS 負債）除以有形權益，季度末為 1.9 倍，這是我們審慎財務管理的有力指標。

Book value per share at the end of the quarter was $19.90, while tangible net book value per share was $16.15. We believe we are well positioned to both manage the current more challenging operating environment while allowing us to invest to create additional value.

本季末每股帳面價值為 19.90 美元，每股有形淨帳面價值為 16.15 美元。我們相信，我們有能力管理當前更具挑戰性的營運環境，同時允許我們投資創造額外價值。

In addition, we continued our efforts to return capital to shareholders.

此外，我們繼續努力向股東返還資本。

Specifically, during the second quarter, we repurchased approximately 14,000 shares at an average stock price of $14.09 per share.

具體來說，在第二季度，我們以每股 14.09 美元的平均股價回購了約 14,000 股股票。

As of June 30th, 2024, there was $10.7 million remaining under the original $20 million share repurchase authorization.

截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日，最初的 2,000 萬美元股票回購授權尚剩餘 1,070 萬美元。

Additionally, in June, we also paid out a $0.50 per share special dividend that we announced last quarter.

此外，6 月份，我們還支付了上季宣布的每股 0.50 美元的特別股息。

In July, we generated $2.3 billion of loan originations and $2.2 billion of pull-through adjusted lock volume.

7 月份，我們發放了 23 億美元的貸款，以及 22 億美元的拉動調整鎖定量。

We are pleased with the positive momentum and meaningful market share gains we achieved as we move through the first half of the year.

我們對今年上半年取得的正面動能和有意義的市佔率成長感到高興。

As we look ahead, we expect that the Guild platform will benefit longer term from a combination of our ongoing organic growth, acquisitions and platform investments as we realize our mission of creating clients for life.

展望未來，隨著我們實現創造終身客戶的使命，我們預計 Guild 平台將從我們持續的有機成長、收購和平台投資的結合中長期受益。

That said, while we expect to continue to show growth, market headwinds remain and it will take time until the market cycle fully turns and we realize the accelerated growth we anticipate.

也就是說，雖然我們預計將繼續呈現成長，但市場阻力仍然存在，市場週期完全轉變並實現我們預期的加速成長還需要時間。

And with that, we'll open up the call for questions.

至此，我們將開始提問。

Operator?

操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Don Fandetti, Wells Fargo.

（操作員說明）Don Fandetti，富國銀行。

.

。

Amber, the gain on sale margin was lower in Q2 versus Q1.

琥珀色，第二季的銷售利潤率低於第一季。

Can you talk a little bit about the dynamic, where that's trending in July and August, and expectations near term?

您能否談談動態、七月和八月的趨勢以及近期的預期？

Sure.

當然。

So as I noted on the call, the if you look at the year to date, we're at 340 basis points overall.

正如我在電話會議上指出的那樣，如果你看看今年迄今為止，我們的總體利率為 340 個基點。

So there is some timing differences where we had the pull through adjusted lock volume increased significantly in Q1, and that led to that 364 down to the 326, but that 340 basis points, that's our operational gain on sale that we're at last quarter.

因此，存在一些時間差異，我們在第一季調整後的鎖定量顯著增加，導致 364 個基點降至 326 個基點，但 340 個基點，這是我們上季度的銷售營運收益。

That's what we've seen year-to-date this quarter.

這就是我們本季迄今所看到的情況。

We don't provide guidance going forward, but I would say we haven't seen there's nothing to indicate any differences and that margin overall.

我們不提供未來的指導，但我想說，我們沒有看到任何跡象表明存在任何差異和整體利潤率。

So it's not stepping down as we go into Q3?

那麼，當我們進入第三季時，它不會退出嗎？

Yes, I mean, if you look historically, year to date, we're at around 40 basis points.

是的，我的意思是，如果你從歷史角度來看，今年迄今為止，我們的利率水準約為 40 個基點。

And so I think if you take out that smoothed out that timing difference were aligned with where we were last year.

所以我認為，如果你消除這一點，時間差異就會與我們去年的情況一致。

Got it.

知道了。

And where are you on acquisitions?

您的收購進度如何？

Obviously, Academy was a pretty meaningful acquisition for you.

顯然，Academy 對您來說是一次非常有意義的收購。

Are there still opportunities?

還有機會嗎？

Or are we kind of past the halfway point on that?

或者我們已經過了一半了嗎？

We still have a pipeline still active in the M&A space and the organic, but it seems like the M&A side is slowing starting to slow down a bit.

我們在併購領域和有機領域仍有活躍的管道，但併購方面似乎正在放緩，開始有點放緩。

And but the organic side is extremely strong.

但有機的一面非常強大。

So I feel like our brand in the in the community, the industry, it continues to gain steam.

所以我覺得我們的品牌在社群、產業中不斷獲得發展。

And so there's a lot of individual loan officers and teams of originators that are interested in hearing the Guild story and want to talk to us so that seems to be continuing to ramp up more and more.

因此，有許多個人貸款官員和發起人團隊有興趣聽到 Guild 的故事，並希望與我們交談，因此這種情況似乎正在繼續增加。

Derek Sommers, Jefferies.

德里克·薩默斯，傑弗里斯。

Hey, good morning, everyone, and nice quarter.

嘿，大家早上好，美好的季度。

Just on the $2.3 billion of originations and $2.2 billion of locks in July, is that -- do you view Academy is fully ramped in those numbers?

僅就 7 月 23 億美元的發起資金和 22 億美元的鎖定資金而言，您是否認為 Academy 在這些數字上已全面提升？

Or is there still a little bit of kind of onboarding process to go with that acquisition?

或者是否還有一些與該收購相關的入職流程？

Go ahead, Amber.

來吧，安布爾。

Go ahead.

前進。

Okay.

好的。

They're integrated into our numbers overall, but everyone is recruiting, as Terry mentioned, in terms of onboarding of new loan officers, but they are in our platform fully integrated early last quarter.

它們已整合到我們的整體數據中，但正如特里所提到的，每個人都在招募新信貸員，但它們在上個季度初完全整合到我們的平台中。

Got it.

知道了。

Yes.

是的。

I mean, they're kind of at the same pace they were as far as the volume in the past, I think they were between 18% and 20% of our volume size and that's staying pretty steady.

我的意思是，就過去的交易量而言，它們的增長速度與之前相同，我認為它們在我們交易量的 18% 到 20% 之間，並且保持相當穩定。

So to Andrew's point, yes, they're pretty integrated at this point, but we're still growing with bringing on larger teams organically.

因此，就安德魯的觀點而言，是的，他們目前已經相當整合，但我們仍在透過有機地引入更大的團隊來成長。

So we still should see some growth during the rest of the year.

因此，我們在今年剩餘時間內仍應該看到一些成長。

Got it.

知道了。

That's helpful color.

這是有用的顏色。

And then kind of a similar question, just related to commissions, salaries and commissions, all the expense efficiency there kind of any incremental color on and how that will trend going forward would be helpful.

然後是一個類似的問題，與佣金、工資和佣金有關，所有費用效率，任何增量色彩以及未來的趨勢都會有所幫助。

Amber, you want to answer that one?

安布爾，你想回答這個問題嗎？

If you look at our originations segment overall and you look, whether it's cost per loan or in basis points, we were at numbers we haven't seen since 2020 to the end of 2022 I'm sorry, 2021 so we know the our strategy of volume and scale is working and driving our per loan cost down.

如果你從整體上看我們的發起部分，你會發現，無論是每筆貸款的成本還是基點，我們都處於自2020 年到2022 年底以來從未見過的數字。我們的策略數量和規模正在發揮作用，並推動我們的每筆貸款成本下降。

That being said, as volume increases, right, you're going to have the variable expense with the incentive comp.

話雖這麼說，隨著銷售量的增加，你將因激勵補償而產生可變費用。

And so I think we have capacity to some capacity to build more volume.

所以我認為我們有能力增加產量。

At some point, we would need to hire rate and salaries or be it increased for that.

在某些時候，我們需要提高僱用率和工資，或為此增加。

But I think the big win here is showing that our origination segments profitable, excluding the contingent liability change, our cost per loan has gone down.

但我認為這裡的重大勝利表明，我們的發起部門是有利可圖的，排除或有負債的變化，我們每筆貸款的成本已經下降。

And in basis points has gone down as well.

基點也有所下降。

So the strategy is working.

所以這個策略正在發揮作用。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

艾瑞克‧哈根，BTIG。

Hey, thanks.

嘿，謝謝。

How are you guys done your first question?

你們的第一題做的怎麼樣了？

I just want to ask about pull through rates and how you see that maybe developing if rates are more volatile and what your pull-through rate has historically been relative to what you might expect over the call it near term?

我只是想問一下拉動率，如果利率波動更大，您如何看待拉動率的發展，以及您的拉動率歷史上相對於您近期可能預期的水平是多少？

Amber, do you want to take that one?

安布爾，你想拿走那個嗎？

We haven't seen significant changes this year.

今年我們沒有看到重大變化。

And overall, I mean, we're always monitoring 8 a.m. and I can't say what's going to happen in the future, but we've stayed with Brent within a pretty tight range over the last done genome, I would say six to nine months.

總的來說，我的意思是，我們總是在早上8 點進行監測，我不能說未來會發生什麼，但我們在上次完成的基因組中與布倫特保持在相當小的範圍內，我想說六到九個月。

We haven't wavered from where we're at overall.

我們的整體狀況並沒有動搖。

Okay.

好的。

Is there a pull-through rate that you guys target or that you've historically seen, just kind of a number that we can think about?

你們是否有一個目標或歷史上所見過的拉動率，只是我們可以考慮的數字？

And I don't know what we've publicly disclosed.

我不知道我們公開透露了什麼。

I would have to get back to you on that.

我必須就此回覆你。

I don't want to give a number that's not out there.

我不想給出一個不存在的數字。

Sure.

當然。

Okay.

好的。

And then on the hedging of the MSR portfolio, can you say what kind of products you're using to hedge that portfolio right now?

然後關於 MSR 投資組合的對沖，您能透露一下您現在使用什麼類型的產品來對沖該投資組合嗎？

Is there a, call it, hedge ratio for the portfolio that you've historically targeted relative to what you're looking to target right now?

您歷史上的目標投資組合相對於您現在的目標投資組合是否存在所謂的對沖比率？

Since we're a retail platform, we've been really successful at just using the natural hedge.

由於我們是一個零售平台，因此我們在利用自然對沖方面非常成功。

And our production has always in environments like that.

我們的生產一直都是在這樣的環境下進行的。

We've always actually been net-net more profitable.

實際上，我們的淨利潤一直更高。

I think this next, I think this cycle will be a little more muted because I don't think the margins will be, as you know, grow it exponentially as they have in the past.

我認為接下來，我認為這個週期將會更加平靜，因為我認為利潤率不會像過去那樣呈指數級增長。

But we always do even better in a situation like that.

但在這種情況下我們總是做得更好。

And I would say that our -- right now, our coupon stack, 20% of its over 6%, 25% of it is over a 5% and above.

我想說的是，現在我們的優惠券堆疊中，20% 的優惠券超過 6%，25% 的優惠券超過 5% 及以上。

And keep in mind that also because we've brought in all this organic growth and M&A growth.

請記住，這也是因為我們帶來了所有這些有機成長和併購成長。

We've got all these, you know, additional loan officers that have they're a customer and client base.

我們有所有這些，你知道，額外的信貸員，他們是客戶和客戶群。

So any anything related to rates going down?

那麼有什麼與利率下降有關的事情嗎？

I think we're going to have an even bigger benefit and we've had in the past.

我認為我們將會獲得更大的利益，而且我們過去也曾獲得過這種利益。

Yes, I would just add to that, that historically, if you look back, we do have we were at a 69% recapture rate in prior years on even during the refi boom, also that our entire MSR portfolio is originated by our loan officers.

是的，我想補充一點，從歷史上看，即使在再融資熱潮期間，我們前幾年的回收率也確實達到了 69%，而且我們的整個 MSR 投資組合都是由我們的信貸員發起的。

So we have relationships with our borrowers.

所以我們與借款人有關係。

So that helped and in terms of that recapture rate and the future potential refi opportunity going forward.

因此，就回收率和未來潛在的再融資機會而言，這有幫助。

Rick Shane, JPMorgan.

里克·肖恩，摩根大通。

Good afternoon, everybody, and thanks for taking my questions.

大家下午好，感謝您提出我的問題。

Tom Kelly, talk a little bit about on the NSR.

湯姆·凱利（Tom Kelly），談談 NSR 的一些情況。

Good afternoon, everybody, and thanks for taking my questions.

大家下午好，感謝您提出我的問題。

Can we talk a little bit about the MSR that was retained during the quarter?

我們可以談談本季保留的 MSR 嗎？

I'm calculating the UPB was about $4.4 billion.

我計算出 UPB 約 44 億美元。

And the capitalization of that was about $74 million.

其資本總額約 7,400 萬美元。

Does that sound right?

聽起來對嗎？

And yes, overall, our retained was about $4 billion overall, 68% retained.

是的，總體而言，我們的保留總額約為 40 億美元，保留率為 68%。

Got it.

知道了。

And so Amber, when I look at the numbers, it looks like the cap rate on the MSR went up.

因此，Amber，當我查看這些數字時，MSR 的上限利率似乎有所上升。

And again, maybe, call it, 40 basis points quarter over quarter.

再次，也許可以稱之為季度環比 40 個基點。

Does that sound correct?

這聽起來正確嗎？

And what's driving the change in that assumption?

是什麼推動了這假設的改變？

And I mean, I'd have to look at the exact numbers and look at the cap rate.

我的意思是，我必須查看確切的數字並查看上限利率。

But the overall I mean, we're using that there's no significant change in the assumptions that we're making on our cap rate overall, I mean, the product mix, the same, our discount rates and CPRs are pretty much aligned.

但總的來說，我的意思是，我們對整體資本化率所做的假設沒有重大變化，我的意思是，產品組合是一樣的，我們的折扣率和 CPR 幾乎是一致的。

So there's not there's not big differences.

所以不存在很大的差異。

I mean the numbers are slightly off from what you're calculating.

我的意思是這些數字與您計算的略有不同。

So maybe that's what's driving some of the differences.

所以也許這就是造成一些差異的原因。

Okay.

好的。

I will follow up with that one offline.

我會離線跟進那個。

But the question is this, so going forward, you're going -- your book is going to be -- your business is going to be a little bit different, and that it's going to be increasingly driven by the recapture from the servicing book.

但問題是這樣的，所以展望未來，你的業務將會有所不同，並且它將越來越多地受到從服務簿中奪回的驅動。

And again, we've got an overall cap rate on that of 145 basis points, which suggests that when you recapture a loan, there is a 145 basis point cost associated with the amortization of that, which will offset the gain on sale.

同樣，我們的總體上限率為 145 個基點，這表明當您收回貸款時，會產生 145 個基點的攤銷成本，這將抵消出售收益。

I'm curious how we think about the economics.

我很好奇我們如何看待經濟學。

Did the loan officers get paid as much on a recapture or because it's easier for them and easier business for you, is there a compensation offset for them that diminishes -- that basically sort of mitigates the impact of that increased MSR amortization?

信貸員在收回時是否獲得了同樣多的報酬，或者因為這對他們來說更容易，對你來說更容易做生意，他們的補償補償是否會減少——這基本上減輕了增加的MSR攤銷的影響？

If the loan is in our portfolio, we do have a different compensation structure for our loan officers so the compensation is lower than then a typical transaction that's not in currently in our portfolio.

如果貸款在我們的投資組合中，我們確實為信貸員提供了不同的薪酬結構，因此薪酬低於目前不在我們投資組合中的典型交易。

Is it enough to offset the cost of the amortization?

是否足以抵銷攤銷成本？

Or is that one of the reasons why you talk about ultimately sort of -- and again, higher volume, lower margins.

或者這就是你最終談到的原因之一——更高的銷量，更低的利潤。

So I'm not -- I just want to understand the dynamics here.

所以我不是——我只是想了解這裡的動態。

Is that one of the reasons why you're talking about lower margins on a volume basis going forward because of the cost of that amortization?

這是否是您談論未來銷售利潤率因攤銷成本而降低的原因之一？

No, that was that was just due to the E&O in the past when we've had these refi, if it were, if we're in a refi boom, all the aggregators seem to be adjusting their margins to reach to get more revenue out of the transaction just because there's so much if there's not enough capacity to get the loans through the system, so they want to slow the funnel down.

不，那隻是由於過去我們進行再融資時的 E&O，如果是的話，如果我們處於再融資熱潮中，所有聚合商似乎都會調整其利潤率以獲得更多收入退出交易只是因為如果沒有足夠的能力通過系統獲得貸款，就會有太多的貸款，所以他們想放慢通路。

And in this situation, I think everybody's scaled down and become a lot more efficient over the last three years that we probably won't see that type of a margin adjustment go around.

在這種情況下，我認為在過去三年裡每個人都縮小了規模並變得更加高效，我們可能不會看到這種類型的利潤調整。

Got it.

知道了。

That makes sense.

這是有道理的。

And I apologize for asking so many questions, but it's probably the benefit of being at the end of the queue.

我很抱歉問了這麼多問題，但這可能是排在最後​​的好處。

The -- I guess, what I'm really trying to understand is, are the unit economics on a recapture refi likely to be lower on an all-in cost allocated basis than an external refi that your -- one of your officers goes out and sources away from the book.

我想，我真正想了解的是，在總成本分配的基礎上，重新奪回再融資的單位經濟效益可能會低於您的一位官員外出的外部再融資以及遠離本書的來源。

On a per loan basis, I would say if you're if you're adding the amortization cost, it would it would be the net-net it would be less.

在每筆貸款的基礎上，我想說，如果你添加攤銷成本，那麼它會是淨額，它會更少。

But in the past, we've always had captured more business on the origination side to make up for that in a dollars basis.

但在過去，我們總是在發起人獲得更多業務，並以美元為基礎來彌補。

You know what I mean.

你知道我的意思。

Understood.

明白了。

Yes.

是的。

I mean, look, there are going to be two parts of the business.

我的意思是，看，業務將分為兩個部分。

There's going to be the recapture and the new customer business.

將會重新奪回新的客戶業務。

You're not going to just sit here presumably and do recapture.

你大概不會只是坐在這裡重新捕獲。

The officers have every incentive to go out and find additional customers away from the book.

官員們有充分的動力出去尋找更多遠離書本的顧客。

Correct.

正確的。

That's right.

這是正確的。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

And I just wanted to jump in in on the pull-through adjusted locked volume question, our rate that we publish is on 88% of our is on the rate that we use on to get from lock volume to pull through adjusted lock volume, which is in our Q.

我只是想談談拉動調整鎖定交易量的問題，我們發布的比率是我們用於從鎖定交易量拉動調整鎖定交易量的比率的 88％，這就在我們的Q裡

Thank you.

謝謝。

As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Terry Schmidt for closing remarks.

由於沒有其他問題了，我現在想將會議交給特里·施密特 (Terry Schmidt) 致閉幕詞。

I just wanted to say thank you for trusting us, and we'll keep working on continuing to grow our platform and provide additional shareholder value as we move along, and we'll see you next quarter.

我只是想說，感謝您對我們的信任，我們將繼續努力發展我們的平台，並在前進的過程中提供額外的股東價值，我們下個季度再見。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This concludes today's teleconference.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

You may disconnect your lines at this time.

此時您可以斷開線路。

Thank you for your participation.

感謝您的參與。