Gerdau SA (GGB) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to the video conference for the release of Gerdau's Q4 '22-'23 results. With us here, we have Gustavo Werneck, CEO; and Rafael Japur, CFO. This video conference is being recorded and will be available on the company's IR website where the complete material for the earnings release is available. You can also download the presentation using the chat icon. (Operator Instructions)

大家下午好，感謝大家的等待。歡迎參加 Gerdau 22-23 年第 4 季度業績發布視頻會議。我們這裡有首席執行官 Gustavo Werneck；和首席財務官 Rafael Japur。該視頻會議正在錄製中，並將在公司的 IR 網站上提供，該網站提供了收益發布的完整材料。您還可以使用聊天圖標下載演示文稿。 （操作員說明）

We wish to emphasize that the information contained in this presentation and any other statements that may be made during the video conference concerning Gerdau's business prospects, projections, operating and financial goals are based on the beliefs and assumptions of the company's management as well as on information currently available. Forward-looking statements are no guarantee of performance. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions because they relate to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur.

我們希望強調，本演示文稿中包含的信息以及視頻會議期間可能做出的有關 Gerdau 的業務前景、預測、運營和財務目標的任何其他聲明均基於公司管理層的信念和假設以及信息目前可用。前瞻性陳述不能保證業績。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們與未來事件相關，因此取決於可能發生或不發生的情況。

Investors should understand that general economic conditions, market conditions and other operating factors may affect Gerdau's future performance and lead to results that differ substantially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

投資者應了解，一般經濟狀況、市場狀況和其他經營因素可能會影響 Gerdau 的未來業績，並導致結果與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果大相徑庭。

So now I turn the floor to Gustavo Werneck to start the presentation. Please, Gustavo.

現在我請 Gustavo Werneck 開始演講。請，古斯塔沃。

Thank you, Renata, and good afternoon, everyone. I would like to start by welcoming each one of you to the video conference call to announce Gerdau's results for the fourth quarter of 2022 and the year-end closing. I hope all of you are doing well. And as Renata mentioned, also participating in this presentation, our CFO, Rafael Japur. And for both of us, it is always a pleasure to talk to you about our performance and answer questions that may come up during our presentation.

謝謝你，Renata，大家下午好。首先，我想歡迎大家參加視頻電話會議，宣布 Gerdau 2022 年第四季度和年終收盤的業績。我希望你們都過得很好。正如 Renata 提到的，我們的首席財務官 Rafael Japur 也參加了這次演講。對於我們雙方來說，很高興與您談論我們的表現並回答我們在演示過程中可能出現的問題。

I will start by talking about the international scenario and the highlights of the overall results, and then I will detail the performance of our business operation in the quarter. Next, Japur will come in to share some information about our financial performance. And finally, I will highlight some points on our ESG agenda. At the end, the 2 of us will be available to talk to you about any points you might want to exploit in more details.

我將從談論國際情況和整體結果的亮點開始，然後我將詳細介紹本季度我們的業務運營表現。接下來，Japur 將分享一些有關我們財務業績的信息。最後，我將強調我們 ESG 議程上的一些要點。最後，我們 2 個人將可以與您討論您可能想要更詳細地利用的任何要點。

Before I continue, I would like to once again give a very special thanks to our employees in the countries where we operate for having contributed to another extraordinary year in the history of Gerdau, a 122-year history.

在我繼續之前，我想再次特別感謝我們在我們經營所在國家/地區的員工，感謝他們為蓋爾道 122 年曆史上又一個不平凡的一年做出了貢獻。

So I will start talking about the macro environment in which Gerdau is a part of. Throughout 2022, we were able to test Gerdau's resilience against a challenging macroeconomic scenario. Gerdau is today an agile, modern and flexible company, the result of a profound cultural and digital transformation carried out in recent years which enabled us even in a complex scenario to have a historic year with exceptional results.

因此，我將開始談論 Gerdau 所在的宏觀環境。在整個 2022 年，我們能夠測試 Gerdau 在具有挑戰性的宏觀經濟情景下的彈性。 Gerdau 今天是一家敏捷、現代和靈活的公司，這是近年來進行的深刻的文化和數字轉型的結果，這使我們即使在復雜的情況下也能在歷史性的一年中取得非凡的成果。

We closely followed the unfolding of logistical and geopolitical challenges resulting from the continuing COVID-19 pandemic and the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, which brought uncertainties to the global economic and inflationary scenarios. One example of this impact was the pressure on production costs, especially energy costs. I emphasize, however, that even in the midst of this challenging scenario, Gerdau continued to perform very well as a result of its business model, geographic diversification in the Americas and an innovative mindset focused on the challenges and needs of our customers.

我們密切關注持續的 COVID-19 大流行以及俄羅斯和烏克蘭之間的衝突所帶來的後勤和地緣政治挑戰的發展，這些挑戰給全球經濟和通脹情景帶來了不確定性。這種影響的一個例子是生產成本的壓力，尤其是能源成本。然而，我強調，即使在這種充滿挑戰的情況下，Gerdau 憑藉其商業模式、在美洲的地域多元化以及專注於客戶挑戰和需求的創新思維，繼續表現出色。

Now turning to the next slides, the 2 next slides. I would like to briefly bring to you some highlights that reflect the solid performance posted by Gerdau in the fourth quarter. Later on, as I mentioned, Japur will give details of our financial performance. We ended the year with the highest net sales in Gerdau's history totaling BRL 82.4 billion. Also last year, we recorded the company's second best adjusted EBITDA, BRL 21.5 billion with an EBITDA margin of 26.1%.

現在轉到下一張幻燈片，接下來的 2 張幻燈片。我想簡要地向您介紹一些亮點，這些亮點反映了 Gerdau 在第四季度的穩健表現。稍後，正如我提到的，Japur 將詳細介紹我們的財務表現。我們以 824 億雷亞爾的 Gerdau 歷史最高淨銷售額結束了這一年。同樣在去年，我們記錄了公司第二好的調整後 EBITDA，215 億雷亞爾，EBITDA 利潤率為 26.1%。

When we analyze our history, as you will see in this presentation, today, Gerdau is at a new level of financial and operating results. This performance demonstrates Gerdau's capacity to transform itself and continue sharing value with its customers and other stakeholders, offering in the market even more innovative and sustainable products and services.

當我們分析我們的歷史時，正如您將在本演示文稿中看到的那樣，今天，Gerdau 的財務和經營業績處於一個新的水平。這一業績表明 Gerdau 有能力進行自我轉型並繼續與客戶和其他利益相關者分享價值，從而在市場上提供更具創新性和可持續性的產品和服務。

Today, the company stands out for its delivery, not only of solid financial results to our stakeholders, but of a transparent business strategy based on strong discipline and cost management and continuous improvement in assets competitiveness. A good example of that is the level of our sales, general and administrative expenses, the SG&A, which has remained at levels well below those our peers have.

今天，該公司因其交付而脫穎而出，不僅為我們的利益相關者提供了穩健的財務業績，而且還基於強有力的紀律和成本管理以及資產競爭力的持續提高，制定了透明的業務戰略。一個很好的例子是我們的銷售、一般和管理費用 SG&A 的水平，它一直保持在遠低於我們同行的水平。

I also emphasize the performance of the North America business operation throughout 2022, which posted an adjusted EBITDA of BRL 10 billion with an EBITDA margin of 32%, both historical annual records. This result reflects the consolidation of our strategy and the positioning in the North American market and the management efforts deployed in recent years to advance the competitive levels of our operations in the region and generate even more value for our customers.

我還強調了整個 2022 年北美業務運營的表現，其調整後的 EBITDA 為 100 億雷亞爾，EBITDA 利潤率為 32%，均為歷史年度記錄。這一結果反映了我們在北美市場的戰略和定位的整合，以及近年來為提高我們在該地區業務的競爭水平並為我們的客戶創造更多價值而部署的管理工作。

In addition to the financial highlights, I would like to mention the establishment through Gerdau Next, our new business units complementary to steel, Ubiratã joint venture with SpaceTime Labs. The new company specializes in high technology and the development of platforms that integrate with everyday industrial life by means of artificial intelligence, autonomous systems and robotic operations. Ubiratã is yet another chapter in the journey of business transformation via digital that Gerdau has embraced in recent years, reinforcing the company's ability to adapt, innovate and transform itself over its 122-year history.

除了財務亮點外，我還想提一下通過 Gerdau Next 建立的公司，這是我們與 SpaceTime Labs 的 Ubiratã 合資企業，是我們與鋼鐵互補的新業務部門。新公司專注於高科技和開發平台，通過人工智能、自主系統和機器人操作與日常工業生活相結合。 Ubiratã 是 Gerdau 近年來通過數字化業務轉型之旅的又一篇章，加強了公司在其 122 年曆史中適應、創新和轉型的能力。

So let's turn to the next slide. I will give more details on the highlights of each of our business operations and the outlook for the markets where Gerdau operates. On Slide #6, as I mentioned earlier, and now talking about our North America business operation, we have delivered record results in 2022. And the outlook for 2023 remains positive.

讓我們轉到下一張幻燈片。我將詳細介紹我們每項業務運營的亮點以及 Gerdau 運營所在市場的前景。在幻燈片 #6 上，正如我之前提到的，現在談論我們的北美業務運營，我們在 2022 年取得了創紀錄的業績。2023 年的前景仍然樂觀。

Steel shipments to the local market in January were at the highest since 2015. And our order backlog in the United States remains at high levels, around 60 days. The steel demand has been positively influenced by the level of activity in the construction sector, which is expected to grow by more than 6% this year. In particular, the infrastructure segment should advance 16% by 2023, driven by projects linked to the infrastructure investment package, the results of which are beginning to be received.

1 月份對當地市場的鋼材出貨量是 2015 年以來的最高水平。我們在美國的訂單積壓仍處於高位，大約 60 天。鋼鐵需求受到建築業活動水平的積極影響，預計今年建築業將增長 6% 以上。特別是，在與基礎設施投資計劃相關的項目的推動下，到 2023 年基礎設施領域應增長 16%，其結果已開始收到。

This package should generate additional steel demand by the next year as states advance in these projects. So this can already be seen though, in January, the North American government has announced, as an example, funds of $2.1 billion to revitalize bridges in the country.

隨著各州在這些項目中的推進，該一攬子計劃到明年應該會產生額外的鋼鐵需求。因此，這一點已經可以看出，例如，在 1 月份，北美政府已宣布撥款 21 億美元用於振興該國的橋樑。

In addition to that, I should stress the re-shoring that has contributed to the consumption of domestic steel in the region. And also, we'll have also additional demands coming in the future from the IRA. Given the scenario, we continue to operate our mills in the region with a capacity utilization levels above 90%. We will continue to invest in improving the profitability and productivity of our North American units, aiming to share even more value with our customers.

除此之外，我還應該強調促成該地區國內鋼材消費的回流。而且，我們將來還會有來自 IRA 的額外要求。鑑於這種情況，我們繼續在該地區運營我們的工廠，產能利用率水平超過 90%。我們將繼續投資以提高我們北美部門的盈利能力和生產力，旨在與我們的客戶分享更多價值。

I will highlight now the investments in the Whitby mill in Canada, whose new melt shop will start operating this half of the year. And also an investment in the electric furnace in Midlothian, Texas plant seeking greater productivity and efficiency of the equipment. This last investment is part of a continuous investment plan directed at the Midlothian plant focused on the modernization and expansion of the product portfolio manufactured at the plant to meet the needs of local customers and consumers.

我現在將重點介紹對加拿大 Whitby 工廠的投資，該工廠的新熔煉車間將於今年半年開始運營。此外，還投資於德克薩斯州米德洛錫安工廠的電爐，以提高設備的生產率和效率。最後一項投資是針對 Midlothian 工廠的持續投資計劃的一部分，該計劃的重點是對該工廠生產的產品組合進行現代化和擴展，以滿足當地客戶和消費者的需求。

I would like to say that our operation that has -- with the production of rebar and the state-of-the-art plant has right now, its best historical moment in terms of production, sales and financial results. It is benefited by the local market, but also by the commercial agreements with the United States and Canada and also the (inaudible).

我想說的是，我們的業務——生產螺紋鋼和最先進的工廠，現在正處於生產、銷售和財務業績方面的最佳歷史時刻。它受益於當地市場，也受益於與美國和加拿大的商業協議以及（聽不清）。

Now turning to the next slide to talk about our Special Steel operation as a financial highlight. Our adjusted EBITDA in 2022 was 40% higher than the previous year, driven by the current levels of profitability. In the United States, I emphasized that the CHIPS Act approved by the American government will contribute to increasing the number of the semiconductor plants in the country over the next few years, solving the chip shortage problem in the vehicle market, which has impacted the demand for specialty steels in recent years.

現在轉到下一張幻燈片，將我們的特殊鋼業務作為財務亮點進行討論。在當前盈利水平的推動下，我們 2022 年調整後的 EBITDA 比上一年高出 40%。在美國，我強調美國政府通過的CHIPS法案將有助於在未來幾年增加該國的半導體工廠數量，解決汽車市場芯片短缺問題，影響需求近年來用於特種鋼。

There are around 30 projects, including expansions and greenfield units estimated in $200 billion. In terms of market the production of light vehicles in the United States should recover and stay above 15 million units. On the other hand, the estimate for the heavy vehicle sector remains positive with a forecasted increase of 5% in 2023, reaching more than 300,000 units.

大約有 30 個項目，包括估計價值 2000 億美元的擴建和新建項目。市場方面，美國輕型車產量有望恢復並保持在1500萬輛以上。另一方面，對重型汽車行業的估計仍然是積極的，預計到 2023 年將增長 5%，達到 30 萬輛以上。

There is an additional investment of BRL 200 million in Monroe, Michigan is moving on as expected with this new investment, Monroe will be an SBQ producer, the most technological in the global market to cater to the future needs of our clients and continue searching for solutions for hybrid and electric cars segments.

在密歇根州門羅有 2 億雷亞爾的額外投資，隨著這項新投資的進行，門羅將成為全球市場上技術含量最高的 SBQ 生產商，以滿足我們客戶未來的需求，並繼續尋找混合動力和電動汽車領域的解決方案。

Now the perspective for here in Brazil are influenced by the lack of semiconductors and also uncertainties related to access to credit lines and high interest rates. In any case, the production of light vehicles should grow 4% in 2023 compared to 2022, according to the National Association of Vehicle Manufacturers, ANFAVEA.

現在，巴西的前景受到缺乏半導體以及與獲得信貸額度和高利率相關的不確定性的影響。根據全國汽車製造商協會 ANFAVEA 的數據，無論如何，與 2022 年相比，2023 年輕型汽車的產量應該增長 4%。

The production of heavy vehicles in turn, accelerated at the end of 2022 to the change in truck technology to Euro 6 standards. At the beginning of January, a new emission rule for heavy vehicles came into force. The agricultural machinery sector should maintain a favorable scenario with the modernization of the fleet amid good harvest levels.

重型車輛的生產在 2022 年底加速，卡車技術向歐 6 標準轉變。 1 月初，針對重型車輛的新排放規則生效。在豐收的情況下，隨著機隊的現代化，農機行業應該會保持有利的局面。

I also would like to reinforce that industries that consumes specialty steels, especially auto parts have proven to be very competitive in the global market, generating exports opportunities. I would like to highlight that we continue to advance with the new continuous casting of blooms and billets at Pindamonhangaba plant in São Paulo. Those products are in the certification phase with our customers. The equipment with a state-of-the-art technology allows a specialty steel unit to have a more automated process with better yield, resulting in the delivery of differentiated products and much higher quality catered to the demanding markets.

我還想強調的是，消耗特種鋼的行業，尤其是汽車零部件行業，已被證明在全球市場上極具競爭力，創造了出口機會。我想強調的是，我們在聖保羅的 Pindamonhangaba 工廠繼續推進新的大方坯和方坯連鑄。這些產品正處於我們客戶的認證階段。採用最先進技術的設備使特種鋼單元的流程自動化程度更高，產量更高，從而交付差異化產品和更高質量的產品，以滿足要求苛刻的市場。

Moving on to the next slide, I will talk about the long and flat steel scenario in Brazil, whose performance in the fourth quarter reflects an accommodation of the demand for steel in the different sectors in which we operate. After a period of 2 years, 2020 and 2021, when we did not have the seasonality of December, which is typical, 2022 once again behaved at similar standards of this month, bringing as additional elements to a drop -- a higher drop in the demand, the World Cup and expectations about the new elected government.

轉到下一張幻燈片，我將談談巴西的長材和扁平材情況，其第四季度的表現反映了我們經營的不同部門對鋼鐵需求的適應。在 2020 年和 2021 年 2 年之後，當我們沒有 12 月的典型季節性時，2022 年再次表現出與本月相似的標準，帶來了額外的下降因素——更高的下降需求、世界杯以及對新當選政府的期望。

We seized this period to have longer stoppage, planned downtime to recover the life of our assets. After a period of 2 years that we needed to have shorter stops, about 2023, we see a recovery in demand after the second part of January in the different areas in which we work.

我們抓住這段時間進行更長時間的停工，計劃停工以恢復我們資產的使用壽命。在我們需要縮短停留時間的 2 年之後（大約 2023 年），我們看到 1 月下旬之後我們工作的不同地區的需求開始復蘇。

Our order book since then, since January 15, added to the expectation of future consumption of steel by our clients, make us confirm our initial projections that we will have a steel demand in 2023 in Brazil, in line to the one that we had in 2022. The steel consumption in residential and commercial construction sectors is still high and despite of the current concerns of the market regarding the number of new launches and also the level of inventories in some cities.

自 1 月 15 日以來，我們的訂單增加了客戶對未來鋼鐵消費的預期，使我們確認了我們最初的預測，即巴西 2023 年的鋼鐵需求與我們在2022年，住宅和商業建築行業的鋼材消費量仍然很高，儘管目前市場對新推出的數量和一些城市的庫存水平存在擔憂。

The number of construction sites active in Brazil, for instance, has reached a historical record in February, over 10,000 construction sites, up 3% in the annual comparison. According to the last survey in the construction industry, the GDP of construction should increase 2.5% vis-a-vis the prior year. The sector can also benefit from the reforms in the housing programs aimed at the low-income segment over the next few quarters.

例如，巴西活躍的建築工地數量在 2 月份達到了歷史記錄，超過 10,000 個建築工地，同比增長 3%。上次建築業調查顯示，建築業GDP同比增長2.5%。該行業還可以從未來幾個季度針對低收入人群的住房計劃改革中受益。

Retail sales remain at a good level, but slower, but they can be positively impacted by new aid measures implemented by the government. I would like to point out that Gerdau's current business model has made the company less dependent on retail, allowing it to capture various market opportunities. In addition, I anticipate the resumption of large public investment in infrastructure works, thus acting as a driver of the country's growth. BD's disbursements in this segment are estimated at more than BRL 31 billion for this year.

零售額保持在良好水平，但速度有所放緩，但可能會受到政府實施的新援助措施的積極影響。我想指出的是，蓋爾道目前的商業模式使公司對零售的依賴程度降低，使其能夠抓住各種市場機會。此外，我預計將恢復對基礎設施工程的大量公共投資，從而成為國家經濟增長的驅動力。 BD 今年在該領域的支出估計超過 310 億雷亞爾。

In addition, I would like to highlight the demand for steel from the industrial sector. It has settled at a high level, reflecting the good performance of the agribusiness, capital goods, machinery and equipment, a yellow line and energy segments. The growth of centralized generation, for instance, should reach 10.3 gigawatts in 2023, the highest ever recorded in the country. Solar and wind plant -- power plants should account for more than 92% of this expansion.

此外，我想強調工業部門對鋼鐵的需求。它已穩定在高位，反映出農業綜合企業、資本貨物、機械設備、黃線和能源板塊的良好表現。例如，到 2023 年，集中式發電的增長將達到 10.3 吉瓦，這是該國有史以來的最高記錄。太陽能和風能發電廠——發電廠應佔此次擴張的 92% 以上。

Now moving on to the next slide, talking about the South America, start by Argentina, where the demand for steel from construction, agribusiness, energy and mining sectors remain strong which has stimulated sales in the local market. The Argentinian construction sector should repeat in 2023, the good performance posted in 2022 when the level of activity was up by 3.5%. The same scenario was repeated in the Uruguayan steel market.

現在轉到下一張幻燈片，談談南美，首先是阿根廷，那裡的建築、農業綜合企業、能源和採礦部門對鋼鐵的需求依然強勁，這刺激了當地市場的銷售。阿根廷建築業應該會在 2023 年重現，2022 年的良好表現，當時活動水平上升了 3.5%。同樣的情景在烏拉圭鋼鐵市場上演。

In Peru, in turn, despite the local political uncertainties, the demand for steel continues at good levels, boosted by the construction industry, which resulted in an increase of 9% in shipments to the local market in the fourth quarter vis-a-vis the previous quarters. So our outlook for this business operation remains positive in South America.

反過來，在秘魯，儘管當地政治存在不確定性，但在建築業的推動下，鋼鐵需求繼續保持在良好水平，這導致第四季度當地市場的出貨量同比增長 9%前幾個季度。因此，我們對該業務在南美的經營前景保持樂觀。

I end this initial part. I now turn the floor to Japur to go into the details about our financial performance, and then I'll come back to talk about our ESG agenda. And later, we will have our Q&A session.

我結束了這個初始部分。我現在請 Japur 詳細介紹我們的財務業績，然後我會回來談談我們的 ESG 議程。稍後，我們將舉行問答環節。

Japur, the floor is yours.

Japur，地板是你的。

Thank you, Gustavo. Good morning, all. Good afternoon. It's a huge pleasure to be here with you once again in our earnings conference call.

謝謝你，古斯塔沃。大家早上好。下午好。很高興再次參加我們的收益電話會議。

Well, I'll start with Slide 11, focusing on our cash flow and working capital. In 2022, like Gustavo said, we had a strong EBITDA of BRL 21.5 billion. Like we saw before, it is the second best annual EBITDA in our history, confirming the resilience of our business model. Our investment in CapEx over 2022 amounted to BRL 4.3 billion, very much in line with the guidance that we shared in early February this year.

好吧，我將從幻燈片 11 開始，重點關注我們的現金流和營運資金。 2022 年，正如古斯塔沃所說，我們的 EBITDA 達到了 215 億巴西雷亞爾。正如我們之前看到的，這是我們歷史上第二好的年度 EBITDA，證實了我們商業模式的彈性。我們在 2022 年的資本支出投資總額為 43 億雷亞爾，非常符合我們在今年 2 月初分享的指導意見。

The big difference that we can see in terms of operating cash flow in 2022 was the working capital. In 2022, we invested BRL 2.7 billion in working capital, almost BRL 4 billion less than the business we acquired or invested in 2021. As you know, in this year, we had a big expansion of our revenues and sales, therefore, requiring more working capital investment compared to 2022.

我們在 2022 年的經營現金流方面可以看到的最大差異是營運資金。 2022 年，我們投入了 27 億雷亞爾的營運資金，比我們在 2021 年收購或投資的業務少了近 40 億雷亞爾。如您所知，今年我們的收入和銷售額大幅增長，因此，需要更多與 2022 年相比的營運資本投資。

Thanks to the reduction of our general debt throughout the year, we had interest expenses that were lower compared to previous years despite this global scenario of high interest rates. Therefore, we ended year 2022 with a record cash flow of BRL 10.5 billion, equivalent to almost 50% of EBITDA for the period and almost BRL 900 million above what we generated as cash flow in 2021, which was also extremely important cash generation year for us.

由於我們全年的一般債務減少，儘管全球利率很高，但我們的利息支出低於往年。因此，我們在 2022 年結束時的現金流量達到創紀錄的 105 億巴西雷亞爾，相當於該期間 EBITDA 的近 50%，比我們在 2021 年產生的現金流量高出近 9 億巴西雷亞爾，而 2021 年也是極其重要的現金產生年我們。

Moving on to the lower chart on the slide, we can see the evolution of working capital on a quarterly basis. We ended the year with working capital level of BRL 16.2 billion and a cash conversion cycle of 81 days, slightly above what we had seen in recent quarters. And this is pretty much due to seasonal adjustments in demand and also the lower level of net sales like Gustavo said when he dive deeper into the performance of each one of our business operations.

轉到幻燈片下方的圖表，我們可以看到營運資本按季度變化。我們以 162 億雷亞爾的營運資本水平和 81 天的現金周轉週期結束了這一年，略高於我們最近幾個季度的水平。這在很大程度上是由於需求的季節性調整以及古斯塔沃在深入研究我們每一項業務的績效時所說的淨銷售額較低。

Moving on, on the CapEx slide. And now I'll dive deeper into this topic. I'll give you a thorough description of our investment. We ended the year 2022 with an investment of BRL 4.3 billion. Like we said before on the free cash flow slide, these amounts include both investment in maintenance, which we can see in the gray upper part of the pie chart and also investment in expansion projects and technical upgrade.

繼續，在資本支出幻燈片上。現在我將深入探討這個話題。我將向您詳細介紹我們的投資。我們在 2022 年結束時投資了 43 億雷亞爾。就像我們之前在自由現金流幻燈片上所說的那樣，這些金額既包括維護投資，我們可以在餅圖的灰色上部看到，也包括擴建項目和技術升級的投資。

For year 2023, and by the way, we had material information with the guidance showing investment of BRL 5 billion in CapEx with our steel operations, 50% of this amount -- approximately 50% for maintenance and the other 50% in expansion and technological upgrade of our business. Like Gustavo said, always pretty much focused on pursuing, increasing efficiency in cost and competitiveness and also growing in the business lines that we consider able to generate value and provide excellent results on the capital investment. In addition, in this amount of BRL 5 billion, approximately BRL 830 million will also be invested for the benefit of the environment, very much in line with our goals to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

順便說一下，對於 2023 年，我們有指導性的重要信息顯示我們的鋼鐵業務資本支出投資 50 億雷亞爾，其中 50%——大約 50% 用於維護，另外 50% 用於擴張和技術我們的業務升級。正如 Gustavo 所說，我們總是非常專注於追求，提高成本和競爭力的效率，並在我們認為能夠產生價值並在資本投資上提供出色成果的業務線中發展。此外，在這筆 50 億巴西雷亞爾的資金中，約 8.3 億巴西雷亞爾也將用於保護環境，這非常符合我們減少溫室氣體排放的目標。

On the right-hand side of the slide, we highlight this quarter, 2 projects. The first project is the expansion of our Whitby melt shop in Canada like Gustavo said during his speech, which is expected to be concluded by the second quarter of 2023. That's what we referred to when we had the earnings presentation for Q1. And the second expansion project is for coil hot rolled strips in Ouro Branco.

在幻燈片的右側，我們突出顯示了本季度的 2 個項目。正如 Gustavo 在演講中所說，第一個項目是我們在加拿大的 Whitby 熔煉車間的擴建，預計將在 2023 年第二季度完成。這就是我們在第一季度的收益報告中提到的。第二個擴建項目是 Ouro Branco 的熱軋捲帶。

We had significant growth in the share of flat steel in our Gerdau product portfolio in the Brazilian operation. And we are still committed to grow this product line. The expectation is that together, these 2 projects, once they are concluded, they should generate between BRL 300 million and BRL 450 million additionally as EBITDA per year, naturally, once they are fully operational.

我們在巴西業務的 Gerdau 產品組合中扁鋼的份額顯著增長。我們仍然致力於發展這條產品線。預計這兩個項目一旦完成，一旦全面投入運營，它們每年應該額外產生 3 億至 4.5 億巴西雷亞爾的 EBITDA。

I would also like to highlight on this slide that in addition to the BRL 5 billion, exclusively related to our steel operations, CapEx and steel investments, in addition, we also have some disbursements related to Gerdau Next initiatives. These initiatives were already disclosed, and Gustavo announced them in his speech. We also told as material information to the market last year. So now I would like to give you a projection that for 2023, we expect that disbursements related to these projects at Gerdau Next are in a range between BRL 500 million and BRL 800 million as effective disbursement.

我還想在這張幻燈片上強調，除了 50 億雷亞爾（專門與我們的鋼鐵業務、資本支出和鋼鐵投資相關）之外，我們還有一些與 Gerdau Next 計劃相關的支出。這些舉措已經公開，古斯塔沃在演講中宣布了這些舉措。去年我們也將重要信息告知市場。所以現在我想給你一個預測，到 2023 年，我們預計與 Gerdau Next 的這些項目相關的支出將在 5 億至 8 億巴西雷亞爾之間作為有效支出。

Moving on to the next slide. Let us talk about our indebtedness and liquidity. We continue with a healthy net debt over EBITDA ratio of 0.33x. In the fourth quarter of 2022, more specifically, we had a slight increase in our net debt, largely due to record dividend pertaining the third quarter, which we effectively paid in December. So in Q4, total amount of BRL 3.6 billion. So this contributed to increase the numbers this quarter.

轉到下一張幻燈片。讓我們談談我們的債務和流動性。我們繼續保持健康的淨債務與 EBITDA 之比為 0.33 倍。更具體地說，在 2022 年第四季度，我們的淨債務略有增加，這主要是由於第三季度創紀錄的股息，我們在 12 月有效支付了股息。所以在第四季度，總額為 36 億雷亞爾。因此，這有助於增加本季度的數字。

In addition, it's also important to say that we closed the year with a healthy cash position of BRL 5.4 billion. We also ended this quarter with our revolver line fully available aligned with several first-class banks and they are worth $875 million, which can be withdrawn if necessary.

此外，同樣重要的是，我們以 54 億雷亞爾的健康現金頭寸結束了這一年。本季度結束時，我們的左輪手槍產品線與幾家一流銀行完全可用，價值 8.75 億美元，必要時可以提取。

So considering all the aspects shown on this slide, we are very much in line with the parameters that we've been setting in our financial policy. We'd also like to remind you all that in April, we will also have the maturity and settlement of our 2023 bond amounting to approximately $190 million, which should support our goal of reducing our debt denominated in dollars.

因此，考慮到這張幻燈片上顯示的所有方面，我們非常符合我們在財務政策中設定的參數。我們還想提醒大家，在 4 月份，我們的 2023 年債券也將到期和結算，金額約為 1.9 億美元，這應該支持我們減少以美元計價的債務的目標。

Now on Slide 14, I'll talk about the return to our shareholders. When we think about Q4, a dividend payout of BRL 133 million, we expect to close 2022 with BRL 6.1 billion as dividend payout, a record amount. In addition, it's also important to recall you that we had over the year, more than BRL 1 billion of share buyback. In other words, if we take into account dividends and buyback, within this year, we paid more than BRL 7.1 billion, equivalent to nearly 2/3 of the free cash flow of BRL 10 billion approximately that we mentioned in the beginning or almost 70% of payout or the net income for the year, which is more than twice the amount stated in our bylaws.

現在在幻燈片 14 上，我將談談對股東的回報。當我們考慮第四季度時，派息為 1.33 億雷亞爾，我們預計到 2022 年結束時派息將達到 61 億雷亞爾，創歷史新高。此外，同樣重要的是要記住我們在過去一年中進行了超過 10 億雷亞爾的股票回購。換句話說，如果考慮到股息和回購，我們在今年內支付了超過 71 億巴西雷亞爾，相當於我們開頭提到的大約 100 億巴西雷亞爾自由現金流的近 2/3，即近 70當年支出或淨收入的百分比，是我們章程中規定金額的兩倍多。

I highlight that we closed the second consecutive year as we can see at the lower part of the slide, the second consecutive year of dividend yield above 10%. This shows Gerdau's capacity to give return to its shareholders. We keep on having 2 buyback programs, both at Gerdau S.A. and Metalurgica Gerdau, they remain open and we strengthened that, we have our dividend payout policy unchanged according to our bylaws as 30% of adjusted net income.

我強調，正如我們在幻燈片的下部看到的那樣，我們連續第二年結束，股息收益率連續第二年超過 10%。這表明 Gerdau 有能力回饋股東。我們在 Gerdau S.A. 和 Metalurgica Gerdau 繼續有 2 個回購計劃，它們仍然開放，我們加強了這一點，根據我們的章程，我們的股息支付政策保持不變，為調整後淨收入的 30%。

Now on the last slide of my presentation today, I would like to share a long-term outlook. When Gustavo talks about the difference between our current performance parameter compared to the past. I would like to compare and highlight the period between 2014 and 2018, when we went through an intense process of cultural and digital transformation and we also performed some divestments, as you all know.

現在，在我今天演講的最後一張幻燈片上，我想分享一個長期展望。當 Gustavo 談到我們當前的性能參數與過去相比的差異時。我想比較和強調 2014 年至 2018 年期間，我們經歷了激烈的文化和數字轉型過程，並且眾所周知，我們還進行了一些撤資。

This year 2022, we reached many significant milestones. We reached our lowest net debt over the last 10 years, we also had our lowest average level of leverage in recent years. We also reached the second highest net income and the second best EBITDA in our history and broke our record in free cash flow generation. And this all put together enabled us to return more value to our shareholders than ever before via dividends and buyback. We are confident that the strategic decisions made in recent years as well as our intense process of cultural transformation allied to our discipline in execution and capital allocation will enable us to continue delivering higher results in the longer term.

今年 2022 年，我們達到了許多重要的里程碑。我們的淨債務達到了過去 10 年的最低水平，我們的平均槓桿水平也是近年來最低的。我們還達到了歷史上第二高的淨收入和第二好的 EBITDA，並打破了自由現金流產生的記錄。所有這些加在一起使我們能夠通過股息和回購向股東回報比以往任何時候都多的價值。我們相信，近年來做出的戰略決策以及與我們在執行和資本配置方面的紀律相結合的激烈文化轉型過程將使我們能夠在長期內繼續取得更好的成果。

So once again, thank you very much for your attention, and I give the floor back to Gustavo so he -- we can come back together at the Q&A.

所以再次非常感謝大家的關注，我把發言權還給古斯塔沃，這樣他——我們就可以一起回到問答環節了。

Thank you, Japur. So very briefly, let me share some information about our ESG agenda and we open then our Q&A session soon.

謝謝你，賈普爾。所以非常簡短，讓我分享一些關於我們的 ESG 議程的信息，然後我們很快就會開始我們的問答環節。

So on Slide 16, I would just like to highlight that we concluded in year 2022, an accident frequency rate of 0.76, which is the lowest rate ever recorded in our historic years of 122 years. This performance underscores our commitment to the health and safety of our people.

因此，在幻燈片 16 上，我只想強調我們在 2022 年得出的結論是事故頻率為 0.76，這是我們 122 年的歷史記錄中的最低頻率。這一表現凸顯了我們對員工健康和安全的承諾。

Here at Gerdau, safety always comes first since no result is more important than people's lives. In this sense, in our digital transformation journey, we have broadly invested in artificial intelligence and Industry 4.0 initiatives to improve the monitoring of critical tasks and prevent accidents.

在 Gerdau，安全永遠是第一位的，因為沒有什麼結果比人的生命更重要。從這個意義上說，在我們的數字化轉型之旅中，我們廣泛投資於人工智能和工業 4.0 計劃，以改善對關鍵任務的監控並防止事故發生。

I also highlight that we obtained the certification of our second operation as a B Corp. SIDERPERU, the company's steel production operation in Peru, joins Gerdau Summit, our joint venture with a Japanese company Sumitomo Corporation and Japan Steel Works focus on the supply of rolling mill rolls and parts for wind power generation, which now become the first 2 steel producers in the world to be certified as B Corp. As part of our sustainability agenda, this certification recognizes that Gerdau complies with good sustainability practices and that it effectively connects the business with our purpose of empowering people who build the future, leaving a legacy for society.

我還要強調的是，我們獲得了作為共益企業的第二家企業的認證。該公司在秘魯的鋼鐵生產企業 SIDERPERU 加入了 Gerdau Summit，這是我們與日本公司 Sumitomo Corporation 和 Japan Steel Works 的合資企業，專注於軋鋼供應用於風力發電的軋輥和零件，現在成為世界上首批獲得 B Corp 認證的 2 家鋼鐵生產商。作為我們可持續發展議程的一部分，該認證認可 Gerdau 遵守良好的可持續發展實踐，並有效地將我們的宗旨是賦權於建設未來的人們，為社會留下寶貴的財富。

In addition, I also highlight that we recently invested by Gerdau Next on a new platform for energy -- renewable energy platform. In this sense, we are partnering with Newave Capital, a Brazilian investment managing company focused on the energy sector for the acquisition of a stake in Newave Energia's capital stock. The deal also includes the acquisition of long-term energy by Gerdau and its subsidiaries, corresponding to up to 30% of the energy generated by power generation projects directly or indirectly owned by Newave Energia self-production basis. The operation aims to generate greater competitiveness in steel production costs in addition to supply Gerdau's plants in the country with renewable energy as part of the commitment to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions.

此外，我還強調，我們最近由 Gerdau Next 投資了一個新的能源平台——可再生能源平台。從這個意義上講，我們正在與巴西一家專注於能源領域的投資管理公司 Newave Capital 合作，以收購 Newave Energia 股本的股份。該交易還包括Gerdau及其子公司對長期能源的收購，相當於Newave Energia在自產基礎上直接或間接擁有的發電項目所產生的能源的最多30%。該業務旨在提高鋼鐵生產成本的競爭力，此外還為 Gerdau 在該國的工廠提供可再生能源，作為減少溫室氣體排放承諾的一部分。

Finally, I would like to highlight that we are very proud to join The Town, Gerando Falcões and the São Paulo local administration to provide a cross-sectional positive impact on the lives of countless families in vulnerability, reinforcing Gerdau's commitment to be part of the solution for social challenges.

最後，我想強調的是，我們非常自豪能夠加入 The Town、Gerando Falcões 和聖保羅地方政府，為無數弱勢家庭的生活提供跨部門的積極影響，加強 Gerdau 致力於成為社會挑戰的解決方案。

Together, we will take the Favela 3D initiative by Gerando Falcões to the Haiti Favela in São Paulo. The project comprises a systemic action that propose solutions for development, income generation and social urban planning, co-created in collaboration with the local population. This partnership will make it possible to build a new future through a project that transforms and fosters socioeconomic development for locals.

我們將一起將 Gerando Falcões 的 Favela 3D 倡議帶到聖保羅的海地貧民窟。該項目包括一項系統性行動，為發展、創收和社會城市規劃提出解決方案，與當地居民共同創建。這種夥伴關係將有可能通過一個改變和促進當地社會經濟發展的項目來建設一個新的未來。

So this is what I had. Thank you all for your attention and for listening to our explanations. And from now on, we'll be here to answer questions and even dive deeper into any topics that are a major interest to you.

所以這就是我所擁有的。感謝大家的關注和聆聽我們的講解。從現在開始，我們將在這裡回答問題，甚至深入探討您最感興趣的任何主題。

Renata, back to you, so you can support in the Q&A session.

Renata，回到你身邊，這樣你就可以在問答環節中提供支持。

(Operator Instructions) So let us begin with our first question. Caio Ribeiro, sell-side analyst with Bank of America. He asks, my first question is about prices of long steel in Brazil. We can see a pressure on these prices in recent months, whereas in the latest weeks, the Turkish rebar is increasing, increasing the discount of rebar in the domestic vis-a-vis the Turkish rebar, double digit according to our accounts.

（操作員說明）讓我們從第一個問題開始。 Caio Ribeiro，美國銀行賣方分析師。他問，我的第一個問題是關於巴西長材的價格。我們可以看到最近幾個月這些價格的壓力，而在最近幾週，土耳其螺紋鋼價格上漲，根據我們的賬目，國內螺紋鋼相對於土耳其螺紋鋼的折扣增加了兩位數。

Do you see an improvement in order to justify increases right now and close discounts vis-a-vis the Turkish material? Which trigger should happen in your point of view in order to improve the chances of implementing an increase.

您是否看到了改進以證明現在增加價格並關閉相對於土耳其材料的折扣？從您的角度來看，應該觸發哪個觸發器，以提高實施增加的機會。

Secondly, I wonder if you could tell us about your expectations vis-a-vis the effect of the infrastructure investments, JOBS Act and job inflation act and the CHIPS Act in the demand for long steel in the U.S. market. And when do you expect this effect to become material? This would be very helpful.

其次，我想知道您是否可以告訴我們您對基礎設施投資、就業法案和就業通脹法案以及 CHIPS 法案對美國市場長材需求的影響的預期。您預計這種影響何時會成為現實？這將非常有幫助。

So now I give you the floor, Japur and Werneck.

現在我請 Japur 和 Werneck 發言。

Caio, thank you for your question. I'll give you an overview for both topics that you mentioned. Japur, be ready to provide any more details for Caio and other listeners.

Caio，謝謝你的問題。我將為您提供您提到的兩個主題的概述。 Japur，準備好為 Caio 和其他聽眾提供更多細節。

Caio, your question about profitability for long steel in Brazil is already happening. This resumption is already taking place. Actually, particularly low demand that we saw in Brazil in December for the reasons already mentioned like World Cup and expectation with the new administration, profitability went down to a level which is not normal.

Caio，你關於巴西長材盈利能力的問題已經出現了。這種恢復已經在發生。實際上，我們在 12 月份看到巴西的需求特別低，原因已經提到，例如世界杯和對新政府的期望，盈利能力下降到不正常的水平。

Since January 15, mid-January, the demand is already recovering in all sectors, some a little bit stronger, others not so strong. And by the way, I said that, right now, we envisage demand for 2023 in Brazil at the same level as we had in 2022. So February, we're already back to normal in terms of demand. This process or resumption to profitability levels for long steel is already happening as we speak.

自 1 月 15 日以來，1 月中旬，所有行業的需求都在恢復，有的稍微強勁一些，有的則不那麼強勁。順便說一句，我說過，現在，我們預計巴西 2023 年的需求與 2022 年的水平相同。所以 2 月份，我們的需求已經恢復正常。正如我們所說，長材的這一過程或恢復盈利水平已經在發生。

What about Turkey? It certainly helps. The Turkey thing, while if we look at the impact on our BO in Brazil, but there's also an impact on U.S. BO. Just to give an explanation about what happened in Turkey, right after this tragedy, humanitarian problem, this huge earthquake in Turkey, there was also an early concern of how it would affect the local steel production in Turkey. Remember, Turkey is the eighth steel producer in the world, about 30 million tonnes and the largest scrap importer, about 30% of world imports.

土耳其呢？這當然有幫助。土耳其的事情，雖然如果我們看看對巴西 BO 的影響，但也會對美國 BO 產生影響。只是解釋一下在土耳其發生的事情，就在這場悲劇、人道主義問題和土耳其發生的這場大地震之後，人們也很早就擔心它將如何影響土耳其當地的鋼鐵生產。請記住，土耳其是世界第八大鋼鐵生產國，約 3000 萬噸，也是最大的廢鋼進口國，約佔世界進口量的 30%。

So the following day, there was a concern about the assets for local production of steel. At first, there were imports of semi finish, particularly billets in order to come back to long steel rolling productions in Turkey with a drop, particularly in the U.S. for scrap.

因此，第二天，人們對當地生產鋼鐵的資產感到擔憂。起初，進口了半成品，特別是方坯，以便在土耳其的長材軋製產量有所下降，尤其是在美國用於廢鋼。

But after cleaning all the tragedy sites and with the possibility of reconstruction, the Turkish administration, so to speak, reserved 4 million tonnes of rebar to rebuild the country. And that led to an increase in the price of rebar in the international market and also an increase in scrap in the U.S. because Turkish is now importing scrap in the U.S. market more strongly. So this process to evolve international prices, I would say it also helped by the resumption of profitability levels for long steel in Brazil after the drop in December.

但在清理了所有悲劇現場並具備重建的可能性後，土耳其政府可以說儲備了 400 萬噸螺紋鋼用於重建國家。這導致國際市場螺紋鋼價格上漲，美國廢鋼價格也上漲，因為土耳其現在在美國市場進口廢鋼的力度更大。所以這個國際價格演變的過程，我想說這也得益於巴西長材在 12 月下跌後恢復盈利水平。

As for the U.S., the outlook is very positive. Actually, we're even taken by surprise how January was a very strong month for our deliveries. February continues the same way. We are at the top of our capacity in production. I would say that some of the mechanisms to encourage steel production are the infrastructure package or also the Inflation Reduction Act, the phenomenon of the re-shoring, which is already very present in our order book with new production capacities being built in the U.S.

至於美國，前景非常樂觀。實際上，我們甚至對 1 月份的交付表現非常強勁感到驚訝。二月以同樣的方式繼續。我們處於生產能力的頂端。我想說的是，一些鼓勵鋼鐵生產的機制是基礎設施一攬子計劃或通貨膨脹減少法案，即回流現象，隨著美國正在建設新的生產能力，我們的訂單中已經非常存在這種現象。

And macroeconomic indicators that we saw in the coming weeks in job generation and other indexes, they all bring the outlook of another historic year in North America. We are ready to take it. Investments in recent years, brought additional capacity of products related to nonresidential production put in place.

我們在未來幾週看到的就業創造和其他指數的宏觀經濟指標，都帶來了北美又一個具有歷史意義的一年的前景。我們準備接受它。近年來的投資帶來了與非住宅生產相關的產品的額外產能。

So we expect to see levels not only this quarter but by year-end, very robust for results in North America. So overall speaking, this is it. Japur anything to add? Feel free to bring more color.

因此，我們預計不僅在本季度而且在年底前都能看到水平，這對北美的業績非常強勁。所以總的來說，就是這樣。 Japur 有什麼要補充的嗎？隨意帶來更多顏色。

Sure. Thank you, Caio. Thank you, Gustavo. An important thing to mention, in addition to short-term outlook, I would also like to think about the IRA package in the mid- and long-term vision for our operations in North America. That's quite an ambitious project, a package that has an important share of its resources related to energy transition, more than $350 billion for transition and conversion of clean energy. And the production of clean energy typically takes up to 3x more steel compared to other sources -- conventional sources of power.

當然。謝謝你，卡約。謝謝你，古斯塔沃。值得一提的是，除了短期前景外，我還想從我們在北美業務的中長期願景中考慮 IRA 一攬子計劃。這是一個相當雄心勃勃的項目，該一攬子計劃在其與能源轉型相關的資源中佔有重要份額，超過 3500 億美元用於清潔能源的轉型和轉換。與其他來源（傳統能源）相比，清潔能源的生產通常需要多 3 倍的鋼材。

So some studies that we follow estimate that this investment announced by IRA should be translated from 25 million to 35 million tonnes. Additionally, of steel used to build electric or photovoltaic and wind power plants. A significant share of this deal comes from projects or products which we can provide in the U.S. for these construction sites and these projects. We have facilities in the U.S. for that, particularly in our beams and merchant bars business.

因此，我們遵循的一些研究估計，IRA 宣布的這項投資應從 2500 萬噸轉化為 3500 萬噸。此外，還有用於建造電力或光伏發電廠和風力發電廠的鋼材。這筆交易的很大一部分來自我們可以在美國為這些建築工地和這些項目提供的項目或產品。為此，我們在美國設有設施，尤其是在我們的橫樑和商業棒材業務方面。

This gives not only a short-term outlook but also mid- to long term in terms of keeping levels of capacity in the mills with very value-added products longer in North America.

這不僅給出了短期前景，而且還給出了中長期前景，即在北美更長時間地保持高附加值產品的工廠產能水平。

Thank you, Japur. Renata, back to you.

謝謝你，賈普爾。雷娜塔，回到你身邊。

Thank you all very much. Marcio Farid, a sell-side analyst from Goldman, wants to ask a question. I think he wants to do it by video.

非常感謝大家。高盛的賣方分析師 Marcio Farid 想問一個問題。我認為他想通過視頻來做到這一點。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes, we can hear you very well.

是的，我們可以很清楚地聽到您的聲音。

I have 2 questions. The first one is about your CapEx. I don't know if Japur or Werneck can go into the details for us. This is one of the things that we have seen and observed, is an increase in your maintenance CapEx, not only in the sector but rather in different industries, actually. I would like to understand how we should think about the maintenance CapEx, if the level of 2023, what you already have as guidance, is there a recurring one or if you have anything looking ahead.

我有兩個問題。第一個是關於您的資本支出。我不知道 Japur 或 Werneck 是否可以為我們詳細介紹。這是我們已經看到和觀察到的事情之一，是您的維護資本支出增加，實際上不僅在該部門，而且在不同行業。我想了解我們應該如何考慮維護資本支出，如果 2023 年的水平，你已經有什麼作為指導，是否有經常性的，或者你是否有任何展望。

And also one of the blast furnaces of Ouro Branco, the renovation is already being questioned by investors. We would like to understand what is the magnitude of this CapEx? One of your competitors has a CapEx of around BRL 3 billion for renovation of a similar blast furnace. So when that should be done, what is the magnitude of cost? When do we expect that the figures will be reflected on the CapEx?

還有歐魯布蘭科的高爐之一，改造已經受到投資者的質疑。我們想了解此資本支出的規模是多少？您的一個競爭對手擁有大約 30 億雷亞爾的資本支出，用於翻新類似的高爐。那麼什麼時候應該這樣做，成本的大小是多少？我們預計這些數字何時會反映在資本支出中？

And also in Brazil, Werneck went into the details on the price side. I would like to understand how we can think about cost. Obviously, a lot of the raw materials volatile pull has been gone up and down, different prices. But scrap, we have seen a strong correction in the second half of the year. It looks like it has not been translated into the metallic results yet. So how can we think about costs just in terms of -- for the profitability in Brazil business unit when we look ahead. Gustavo, please? Because you already talked about prices.

同樣在巴西，Werneck 深入探討了價格方面的細節。我想了解我們如何考慮成本。很明顯，很多原材料的波動拉動已經漲跌互現，價格不一。但是廢料，我們在今年下半年看到了強烈的修正。看起來它還沒有轉化為金屬結果。那麼，當我們展望未來時，我們如何僅根據巴西業務部門的盈利能力來考慮成本。古斯塔沃，好嗎？因為你已經談到了價格。

Thank you, Marcio. These are good topics. So Japur, let's do the same thing. I will go over the question briefly, and then you can add to them, anything that you might want to comment on, and I'm sure that's going to enrich the answer.

謝謝你，馬西奧。這些都是很好的話題。那麼賈普爾，讓我們做同樣的事情。我將簡要回顧一下這個問題，然後您可以向其中添加您可能想要評論的任何內容，我相信這會豐富答案。

So first, when we talk about CapEx we always think about capital allocation. I didn't want to miss this opportunity to say 2 words that are in my agenda which are discipline and predictability. So when we look ahead, we are not going to allocate capital in large greenfield projects. There are no projects for the future that could in any way surprise those that are in relation with Gerdau.

所以首先，當我們談論資本支出時，我們總是會考慮資本配置。我不想錯過這個機會說出我議程中的兩個詞，即紀律和可預測性。因此，當我們展望未來時，我們不會在大型綠地項目中分配資金。未來沒有任何項目可以讓那些與 Gerdau 相關的項目感到驚訝。

So the capital allocation for CapEx, that share is going to be related to the maintenance of our plants, and the marginal increase of some productive capacity for markets where we have demand or a technological improvement so that our assets can be prepared to meet future challenges. So there are no surprises ahead, and I stress this word, predictability, for us is very much present in our daily life.

因此，資本支出的資本分配，該份額將與我們工廠的維護以及我們有需求或技術改進的市場的一些生產能力的邊際增長有關，以便我們的資產可以為迎接未來的挑戰做好準備.所以前方沒有驚喜，我強調這個詞，可預測性，因為我們在日常生活中非常普遍。

So specifically talking about Ouro Branco, we are using everything that we can and in terms of what we invested in the last few years of technology and everything else. We have a good equipment. And in addition to that, we have learnings from the renovation of high -- the Blast Furnace #2.

因此，特別是在談論 Ouro Branco 時，我們正在盡我們所能，以及我們在過去幾年的技術和其他一切方面的投資。我們有很好的設備。除此之外，我們還從 2 號高爐的改造中吸取了教訓。

In addition to that, we use a specialized consulting services for that type of job so that we could postpone the stoppage, the furnace in Ouro Branco to 2025. That will allow us to reduce CapEx for Ouro Branco. So this level of BRL 5 billion, that will be there for the next few years. So we do not have any piece of equipment faulty or with any problems or anything in terms of CapEx that's going to be a surprise to the market.

除此之外，我們還針對此類工作使用專門的諮詢服務，以便我們可以將 Ouro Branco 的熔爐停工時間推遲到 2025 年。這將使我們能夠減少 Ouro Branco 的資本支出。因此，這個 50 億雷亞爾的水平將在未來幾年內保持不變。因此，我們沒有任何設備故障或任何問題或資本支出方面的任何事情會讓市場感到驚訝。

So we imagine that this current level of CapEx will be enough to do all the renovations that Ouro Branco needs. And not only the blast furnace but also the coke machine and investment in mining, so -- and or area as well. So the level that we mentioned here for 2023 is going to be that level of investments for the next few years. So we want to make sure that we are comparing apples-to-apples. So when we talk about BRL 5 billion as compared to BRL 4.3 million last year, and this is still because Gerdau Next is something else. So this is a general overview for Ouro Branco. So right now, we are at ease because we postponed this stoppage from 2024 to 2025.

因此，我們認為目前的資本支出水平足以完成 Ouro Branco 所需的所有翻新工程。不僅是高爐，還有焦炭機和採礦投資，所以 - 和/或區域也是如此。因此，我們在這裡提到的 2023 年的水平將是未來幾年的投資水平。因此，我們要確保我們正在比較同類產品。因此，當我們談論 50 億巴西雷亞爾與去年的 430 萬巴西雷亞爾相比時，這仍然是因為 Gerdau Next 是另一回事。所以這是 Ouro Branco 的總體概述。所以現在，我們很放心，因為我們將停工時間從 2024 年推遲到 2025 年。

Now about costs in Brazil. In a way, they will be similar to costs that we have seen last year in terms of energy. I think this is an advantage. And our competitiveness in buying scrap allows us to mitigate other costs that are not as under our control. So now really what we have to see is coal. Yes, it has been very much volatile. It goes down, then it goes up after news coming from Australia. So we have to understand to -- in order to understand where costs will drive us here in Brazil, we have to pay attention to coal.

現在關於巴西的費用。在某種程度上，它們將類似於我們去年在能源方面看到的成本。我認為這是一個優勢。我們在購買廢料方面的競爭力使我們能夠降低我們無法控制的其他成本。所以現在我們真正要看到的是煤炭。是的，它一直非常不穩定。它下降，然後在來自澳大利亞的消息後上升。所以我們必須明白——為了了解成本將把我們帶到巴西的什麼地方，我們必須關注煤炭。

And as I mentioned to Caio, this process of rebuilding between the prices and everything, that is already being taken care of and that has to do also with imports.

正如我對 Caio 提到的，這種在價格和一切之間重建的過程已經得到處理，並且也與進口有關。

I will stop here, and Japur, you can take over.

我會在這裡停下來，賈普爾，你可以接管。

Werneck, please, a quick follow-up before you turn to Japur and that might be relevant. If we think about this stoppage in 2025, this money would be spent already in 2024 or closer to 2025?

Werneck，拜託，在你轉向 Japur 之前快速跟進，這可能是相關的。如果我們考慮在 2025 年停工，這筆錢會在 2024 年或接近 2025 年時花掉嗎？

Excellent question. We are already spending this money, okay? Yes, because when we talk about normalizing in ['25], we are considering that -- different pieces of equipment and components, we are already acquiring. So a practical example, if you know the blast furnace, some of the parts like crucible, they take 2 years to be delivered. So we are already working on that so that we can have this downtime in 2025. So nothing is going to happen at the last minute. So that's why we are telling you that we are going to have this normalization in the CapEx level and no one will be surprised with a very high CapEx 5 years from or 2 or 3 years from now.

很好的問題。我們已經在花這筆錢了，好嗎？是的，因為當我們在 ['25] 中談論規範化時，我們正在考慮 - 我們已經在獲取不同的設備和組件。舉個實際的例子，如果你知道高爐，一些零件比如坩堝，它們需要 2 年才能交付。所以我們已經在著手解決這個問題，以便我們可以在 2025 年停工。所以在最後一刻什麼都不會發生。所以這就是為什麼我們告訴你我們將在資本支出水平上實現這種正常化，沒有人會對 5 年後或 2 或 3 年後的非常高的資本支出感到驚訝。

So Marcio, just a simple math on the CapEx figures. In this past year, we invested BRL 4.3 billion in CapEx. Out of those, 2/3 rounding up, BRL 2.6 billion was for maintenance and the remaining BRL 1.7 billion in competitiveness and growth projects.

所以馬西奧，只是對資本支出數字的簡單數學計算。在過去的一年裡，我們在資本支出上投資了 43 億雷亞爾。其中 2/3 舍入，26 億雷亞爾用於維護，其餘 17 億雷亞爾用於競爭力和增長項目。

Now this year 2023, our CapEx is up to BRL 5 billion, but its proportion is different. If we think about maintenance itself, we are reducing it a little bit. It's more or less in line, you could say it's flat in terms of general maintenance. But what is, in fact, increasing is on the competitive projects.

現在到 2023 年，我們的資本支出高達 50 億雷亞爾，但比例有所不同。如果我們考慮維護本身，我們會減少一點。它或多或少是一致的，你可以說它在一般維護方面是持平的。但實際上，增加的是競爭項目。

We are investing BRL 800 million more in 2023 in projects to grow -- to provide profitability, other products, other capacities more than we invested in '22, aligned to what Gustavo mentioned, when we talk about maintaining our plants efficient, and we are talking also about gaining costs, expanding product lines that we believe that will be generating more value over time. So just agreeing with Gustavo here, our idea is to maintain these levels of disbursement for the next years with no major changes. This is going to be all very well planned.

我們將在 2023 年再投資 8 億雷亞爾用於增長項目——提供比我們在 22 年投資更多的盈利能力、其他產品和其他能力，這與 Gustavo 提到的一致，當我們談論保持我們的工廠效率時，我們是還談論獲得成本，擴大我們認為隨著時間的推移會產生更多價值的產品線。因此，在此同意 Gustavo 的觀點，我們的想法是在未來幾年保持這些支出水平，而不會發生重大變化。這一切都將被精心計劃。

Just to show you, the highest individual disbursement that we have this year is our investment in the expansion of the coiled hot-rolled strip. That individually is the project that is taking up more disbursements for this year and the investment in growth and competitiveness. This is not investment in maintenance.

給大家看一下，今年我們單項支出最高的是熱軋卷材擴建投資。這單獨是今年佔用更多支出的項目以及對增長和競爭力的投資。這不是維護投資。

Let me tell you a little bit about Gerdau Next, yes, about Gerdau Next then. The disbursement that we forecast for this year, not -- the BRL 5 billion that we mentioned is for steel only as we said, but it's -- for Gerdau Next, the BRL 500 million and BRL 800 million. But why the difference, Gustavo? This is a high range. Because these projects and initiatives are not 100% from Gerdau. Sometimes, we are doing partnerships with investments such as Ubiratã, as Gustavo mentioned; or Addiante with Randon; or with Newave. These are investments that depend on license, if these are companies that work with energy generation or the execution speed vary or these are joint ventures or they have an independent Board.

讓我告訴您一些有關 Gerdau Next 的信息，是的，關於 Gerdau Next。我們預測今年的支出，不是 - 我們提到的 50 億巴西雷亞爾僅用於鋼鐵，正如我們所說的那樣 - 對於 Gerdau Next，5 億巴西雷亞爾和 8 億巴西雷亞爾。但為什麼不同，古斯塔沃？這是一個高範圍。因為這些項目和舉措並非 100% 來自 Gerdau。有時，正如古斯塔沃提到的，我們正在與 Ubiratã 等投資公司建立合作夥伴關係；或 Randon 的 Addiante；或使用 Newave。這些投資取決於許可證，如果這些公司從事能源生產或執行速度不同，或者這些是合資企業或他們有獨立的董事會。

So it's not in our total control when we plan a downtime that we know that's going to happen in December. So it's not that clear. So that's why we have this open range for Gerdau Next. We expect to invest in Gerdau Next between BRL 500 million and BRL 800 million. And I have already seen other questions in the chat about this.

因此，當我們計劃在 12 月發生的停機時間時，我們無法完全控制。所以不是很清楚。這就是為什麼我們為 Gerdau Next 提供這個開放範圍。我們預計將在 Gerdau Next 投資 5 億至 8 億巴西雷亞爾。我已經在聊天中看到了關於此的其他問題。

So where are these investments if they are not in CapEx line? In the CapEx line, it's exclusive CapEx that is going to generate depreciation in the future. But in Gerdau Next, we invest in joint ventures or subsidiaries. So these are corporate shares that they are going to come up in the line of investments and not in the line -- the same line as our other CapEx.

那麼，如果這些投資不在資本支出範圍內，它們在哪裡呢？在資本支出線中，未來會產生折舊的是獨占資本支出。但在 Gerdau Next，我們投資於合資企業或子公司。因此，這些是公司股票，它們將出現在投資線中，而不是在投資線中——與我們的其他資本支出相同。

So Renata, back to you.

那麼雷娜塔，回到你身邊。

Next question, Thiago Lofiego, sell-side analyst, Bradesco BBI. He opened the camera, we have a slight delay, but Thiago is almost there.

下一個問題，Thiago Lofiego，Bradesco BBI 的賣方分析師。他打開相機，我們稍有延遲，但蒂亞戈已經快到了。

So let's go for it. My first question is about cost in the U.S. plan, the U.S. BO, better said. In addition to scrap, what else can you tell us about energy cost, evolution of labor services considering scrap and steel prices? Well, we can see it very clearly on the screen and maybe even consider a projection. But what about the other items? They are more challenging to follow. So what should we expect? And as a result, what is the outlook for metal scrap for the coming months?

所以讓我們開始吧。我的第一個問題是關於美國計劃的成本，更好地說是美國 BO。除了廢鋼，關於能源成本、考慮到廢鋼和鋼材價格的勞動力服務的演變，您還能告訴我們什麼？好吧，我們可以在屏幕上非常清楚地看到它，甚至可以考慮投影。但是其他項目呢？遵循它們更具挑戰性。那麼我們應該期待什麼呢？因此，未來幾個月金屬廢料的前景如何？

And the second question is about profitability in Brazil. Werneck, you said it's already improving. Just to give us more color, is it improving because the volume is going up, and therefore, you dilute costs? Or is it improving because costs are actually going down? Or maybe you're working better with prices? So still considering prices, if we think about imported rebar vis-a-vis the domestic product, we can see the domestic rebar with a big discount. For the moment, demand recovers seasonally. Do you think manufacturers in Brazil can make up this margin on prices?

第二個問題是關於巴西的盈利能力。 Werneck，你說它已經在改善了。只是為了給我們更多的顏色，它是否因為銷量上升而有所改善，因此，你攤薄了成本？還是因為成本實際上在下降而有所改善？或者也許您在價格方面做得更好？所以仍然考慮價格，如果我們考慮進口螺紋鋼與國內產品的對比，我們可以看到國產螺紋鋼有很大的折扣。目前，需求呈季節性複蘇。您認為巴西的製造商能否在價格上彌補這一差距？

Your question about profitability, well, you gave us so many options and multiple questions, so multiple-choice question, all of the above. We are checking all the boxes, all of the above. So the set of actions that you mentioned are all included. All these actions are taking place at the same time.

你關於盈利能力的問題，好吧，你給了我們這麼多選項和多個問題，所以多項選擇題，以上所有。我們正在檢查所有框，以上所有內容。所以你提到的這一系列動作都包括在內。所有這些動作都是同時發生的。

Well, what about metal spread in the U.S., historic levels, and it will remain like this?

好吧，美國的金屬價差如何，歷史水平，它會保持這樣嗎？

If you ask me what is the range, it is around $800 per tonne. All of our expectations, all the guidance, they show us that this is the metal spread to continue over the year. So you put it very well. If you think about scrap metal spread. They are more visible and maybe another smaller but relevant is operational and manufacturing costs. This is under control. Levels are similar to last year.

如果你問我範圍是多少，大約是每噸 800 美元。我們所有的預期，所有的指引，都向我們表明，這是今年繼續存在的金屬價差。所以你說得很好。如果您考慮廢金屬價差。它們更明顯，也許另一個更小但相關的是運營和製造成本。這是在控制之中。水平與去年相似。

But what is still slightly affecting us is labor. We expected in the last quarters to have a balance in labor. But believe it or not, we still have open seats, vacant positions since the beginning of the pandemic. But the labor market in the U.S. is still very intense. We're still facing challenges to bring labor to our units, our plants.

但仍然對我們有輕微影響的是勞動力。我們預計最後幾個季度的勞動力將保持平衡。但不管你信不信，自大流行開始以來，我們仍然有空缺席位和空缺職位。但美國的勞動力市場仍然非常緊張。我們仍然面臨著為我們的單位和工廠帶來勞動力的挑戰。

So overall speaking, costs will be in line with what we know, metal spread in this level that I mentioned. And the plants are working with a very high production capacity, very high level of use. And we were taken aback in January and February with the deliveries we perform, not only the deliveries that we managed to perform but also the backlog over 60 days.

所以總體而言，成本將與我們所知道的一致，金屬價差處於我提到的這個水平。這些工廠的生產能力非常高，使用水平非常高。我們在 1 月和 2 月對我們執行的交付感到吃驚，不僅是我們設法執行的交付，還有超過 60 天的積壓。

We believe this year will be very intense. We could speak about recession, hyperinflation, but even those who are more pessimistic economists in the U.S., they consider that would be an intense impact, but they already considering this for the end of the year. So we tend to believe this year will be pretty strong to our operations, Thiago.

我們相信今年會非常激烈。我們可以談論經濟衰退、惡性通貨膨脹，但即使是那些在美國更為悲觀的經濟學家，他們也認為這將是一個巨大的影響，但他們已經在年底考慮了這一點。因此，蒂亞戈，我們傾向於相信今年對我們的業務來說會非常強勁。

If I may, I would just like to mention again what I said in my speech about Mexico. Mexico's share is very relevant today. Very relevant in our North American BOs, and our production capacity is fully taken at the limit. You sell everything you manufacture, not only to the domestic Mexican market, but also because Mexico is becoming a platform to support the U.S. in economic and manufacturing industries.

如果可以的話，我想再提一下我在演講中談到的有關墨西哥的話。墨西哥的份額在今天非常重要。在我們的北美BO中非常相關，我們的產能已完全達到極限。你把你製造的一切都賣掉，不僅賣給墨西哥國內市場，還因為墨西哥正在成為支持美國經濟和製造業的平台。

So this is it. Japur, anything else you would like to mention?

就是這樣。 Japur，你還有什麼想說的嗎？

I think these are the most important topics. Naturally, as we check the volumes in the U.S. at healthy levels, then we can also have more dilution of our fixed costs, which are always important there for a leaner operation and absolutely focused on mini-mills.

我認為這些是最重要的話題。自然地，當我們檢查美國的產量處於健康水平時，我們也可以更多地稀釋我們的固定成本，這對於精益運營和絕對專注於小型鋼廠來說總是很重要的。

In addition, another point is that last year, early in the year, there was some pressure about energy prices in general. And now we begin to see as a result of the winter in Europe, we can see that natural gas prices and other energy prices are slightly lower compared to other times of the year. So it could also be a driver to help lower our downstream costs in North America.

此外，還有一點就是，去年年初，能源價格普遍存在一些壓力。現在我們開始看到，由於歐洲的冬季，我們可以看到天然氣價格和其他能源價格與一年中的其他時間相比略有下降。因此，它也可能成為幫助我們降低北美下游成本的驅動力。

Werneck, if I may, could we go back to the multiple choice question? Alternative C, which is working on margins or premium makeup in the domestic market. So just to better understand the rationale, today, at least according to my math, we have a discount about imported rebar of over 15%. Based on your comment, do you think it's fair to assume that you manage -- you and the industry in Brazil can make up this premium in the coming months?

Werneck，如果可以的話，我們可以回到多項選擇題嗎？備選方案 C，致力於國內市場的利潤或溢價。因此，為了更好地理解其中的原理，今天，至少根據我的計算，我們對進口螺紋鋼的折扣超過 15%。根據您的評論，您認為假設您管理 - 您和巴西的行業可以在未來幾個月內彌補這一溢價是否公平？

Yes, yes. That's the goal. Go back to premium? Yes. And this premium is an amount that is way below what is practiced. Thiago, like I said before, it was influenced by December and the first 2 weeks of January, but with the resumption of demand, which is one of your multiple choice alternatives, which is already consistent in all segments.

是的是的。這就是目標。回到高級？是的。而且這個溢價遠低於實際情況。蒂亞戈，就像我之前說的，它受到 12 月和 1 月前 2 週的影響，但隨著需求的恢復，這是你的多項選擇之一，這在所有細分市場中已經是一致的。

So international prices and other factors that we mentioned, I believe that during this May and early April, we will see a resumption in profitability. So that's the expectation. Working with a negative import premium at the level it is, it's surreal.

所以我們提到的國際價格和其他因素，我相信在今年五月和四月初，我們將看到盈利能力的恢復。這就是期望。在目前的水平上使用負進口溢價，這是超現實的。

Now turning to our next question, Daniel Sasson, sell-side analyst from Itaú BBA. He also has a question. Also, please, you can open camera.

現在轉向我們的下一個問題，來自 Itaú BBA 的賣方分析師 Daniel Sasson。他還有一個問題。另外，拜託，你可以打開相機。

Part of my questions have already been answered, but I would like to go back to North America, please. Can you comment on Mexico, Werneck? Give us more color about what is the percentage now of your EBITDA in North America comes from Mexico. We always focus in the U.S. And it seems to me that there is a limiting factor for the -- for Mexico to be more representative considering that you are at the limit of your capacity there. Am I right?

我的部分問題已經得到解答，但我想回到北美，拜託。你能評論一下墨西哥嗎，Werneck？給我們更多關於北美 EBITDA 來自墨西哥的百分比的顏色。我們始終關注美國，在我看來，考慮到墨西哥的能力極限，墨西哥更具代表性是一個限制因素。我對嗎？

And if you can also talk about the metal spread. Compare it and compare the level that you have now to what you consider to be sustainable if you see 2023 as a year of transition between very good years, this peak of cycle maybe in the U.S., to a more sustainable level of margin and metal spread.

如果您還可以談談金屬價差。如果您將 2023 年視為非常好的年份之間的過渡年，那麼將其進行比較並將您現在擁有的水平與您認為可持續的水平進行比較，這個週期的高峰可能在美國，到更可持續的利潤率和金屬利差水平.

And if you see any risk of Section 232 to be rediscussed in the U.S., because at the end of the day, with all these projects, infrastructure related to energy, the United States assume that they don't have domestic capacity of production to meet all this demand. So effectively, with Section 232, the U.S. seem to be importing inflation. Is there a concern that you have? Do you think it is more reasonable to imagine that to eliminate protectionist barriers might be something that will gain traction?

如果你看到美國重新討論 232 條款的任何風險，因為歸根結底，對於所有這些項目，與能源相關的基礎設施，美國認為他們沒有國內生產能力來滿足所有這些需求。如此有效，通過第 232 條，美國似乎正在輸入通貨膨脹。你有什麼顧慮嗎？您認為消除保護主義壁壘可能會獲得牽引力的想法更合理嗎？

Japur, do your math. And I'll start answering to Daniel's question. Daniel, Mexico, well, as I mentioned, we produced rebar, commercial and light merchant bars, and we have a plant that is the state-of-the-art. Also manufacturing structural merchant bars, we have an additional capacity as we move forward in our operating performance, we can add more capacity there.

賈普爾，做你的數學。我將開始回答丹尼爾的問題。丹尼爾，墨西哥，好吧，正如我提到的，我們生產螺紋鋼、商用和輕型商用鋼筋，我們擁有最先進的工廠。我們還製造結構性商業酒吧，隨著我們的經營業績向前發展，我們有額外的產能，我們可以在那裡增加更多的產能。

But in these 3 types of products in our 3 plants, we have full capacity. The segment of rebar in Mexico, it has a mismatch between supply and demand. But even then, we see a need of rebar in Mexico. This is occupying our productive capacity and also the market in general. So marginally, we can grow a little bit our capacity in Mexico, especially structural merchant powers, and I can add with more information later.

但是在我們3個工廠的這3種產品中，我們的產能是滿負荷的。墨西哥的螺紋鋼部分，供需不匹配。但即便如此，我們仍看到墨西哥對螺紋鋼的需求。這正在佔用我們的生產能力以及整個市場。因此，我們可以稍微增加一點我們在墨西哥的能力，尤其是結構性商業力量，我可以稍後添加更多信息。

But the metal spread, Daniel, in North America, will continue at that level. When you compare the last 5, 6, 10 years, that is a level, historical high. But it's important to understand that Gerdau is a totally different company and the market has changed a lot. So our -- sometimes, we think that this is an outlier and that we are going to go back to historical levels. I think this is a mine model that we need to change.

但北美的金屬價差，丹尼爾，將繼續保持在該水平。當你比較過去 5 年、6 年、10 年時，這是一個歷史高位。但重要的是要了解 Gerdau 是一家完全不同的公司，市場已經發生了很大變化。所以我們 - 有時，我們認為這是一個異常值，我們將回到歷史水平。我認為這是我們需要改變的礦山模式。

Also our operations in the U.S., Daniel, and I remember, we have been debating that for a few years. 5 years, 6 years ago, there was a difference in operation performance of $25 per tonne. When compared to our competitors, we have captured fully these $25. We are looking for additional opportunities to improve our manufacturing costs, so I see a huge competitiveness of our plants.

還有我們在美國的業務，丹尼爾，我記得，我們已經爭論了幾年。 5 年、6 年前，每噸的運營績效相差 25 美元。與我們的競爭對手相比，我們已經完全獲得了這 25 美元。我們正在尋找更多機會來降低我們的製造成本，因此我看到了我們工廠的巨大競爭力。

Nowadays, they are operating very well, and the level of metal spread, that because of everything that we have already mentioned here, I don't think this is going to go down. And let us not forget differently from what happens now in the U.S., there are no major additional capacity directed to long steel. So it seems that over the next few years, with all this demand that we see coming from these incentives, our productive capacity will be fully used.

如今，他們運作得很好，金屬傳播的水平，由於我們已經在這裡提到的一切，我認為這不會下降。讓我們不要忘記與美國現在發生的情況不同的是，沒有針對長材的主要額外產能。因此，在接下來的幾年裡，隨著我們看到來自這些激勵措施的所有這些需求，我們的生產能力似乎將得到充分利用。

About 232, it affects rebars a lot, but not directly our products. It was not by chance that we divested in rebar in the U.S., and we are very happy about this decision. When we compare the last quarters, the EBITDA margins that we reached and the EBITDA margins that the traditional rebar producers reached, we can clearly see that we made the right decision. I see a positive scenario from all sides.

大約 232，它對螺紋鋼影響很大，但不直接影響我們的產品。我們在美國剝離螺紋鋼業務並非偶然，我們對這一決定感到非常高興。當我們比較上個季度，我們達到的 EBITDA 利潤率和傳統螺紋鋼生產商達到的 EBITDA 利潤率時，我們可以清楚地看到我們做出了正確的決定。我從各方面都看到了積極的情況。

Japur can you add to that? And then let's see if Daniel wants to add anything else.

Japur 你能補充一下嗎？然後讓我們看看 Daniel 是否想添加任何其他內容。

Well, just to add, look, Mexico in 2022, for example, went through a transformational journey, the ramp-up of the investment of the plant that Gustavo mentioned and then now in 2022 represented between 6% and 7% of our Gerdau business, with margins that were similar to the gross margins that we have in our operation in the U.S. There are no major discrepancies between these operations.

嗯，補充一下，例如，墨西哥在 2022 年經歷了轉型之旅，Gustavo 提到的工廠投資增加，現在到 2022 年占我們 Gerdau 業務的 6% 到 7% ，利潤率與我們在美國運營的毛利率相似。這些業務之間沒有重大差異。

So it did have an important growth between '21 and '22. So this is an operation that, as Gustavo mentioned, is working within its capacity, a great performance, diluting fixed costs and increasing the level of competitiveness and efficiency. We are very happy about this investment.

所以它在 21 年和 22 年之間確實有重要的增長。因此，正如古斯塔沃所提到的，這是一項在其能力範圍內運作的業務，表現出色，稀釋了固定成本並提高了競爭力和效率水平。我們對這項投資感到非常高興。

Perfect. Werneck, just to confirm, you talk about $800 per tonne metal spread in the U.S. Is that correct?

完美的。 Werneck，我想確認一下，你說的美國金屬價差是每噸 800 美元，對嗎？

Yes. This is the current level of metal spread. Thank you, Daniel.

是的。這是目前的金屬價差水平。謝謝你，丹尼爾。

The next question is from Carlos De Alba, sell-side from Morgan Stanley. He sent us a couple of questions. I'll ask them all at once so you can answer them.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的賣方 Carlos De Alba。他給我們發了幾個問題。我一次問完他們，這樣你就可以回答他們了。

The first question is the following. Can you give us more detail on the CapEx budget of BRL 5 billion for 2023 and discuss what are the investments or cash out by Gerdau Next which are not included in this BRL 5 billion? Second question. Working capital days have significantly increased in Q4 of 2022. What do you expect to see in the first quarter of 2023?

第一個問題如下。您能否向我們詳細介紹 2023 年 50 億雷亞爾的資本支出預算，並討論 Gerdau Next 的哪些投資或套現不包括在這 50 億雷亞爾中？第二個問題。 2022 年第四季度營運資金天數顯著增加。您預計 2023 年第一季度會出現什麼情況？

Third question. Why is it prices of rebar are going down in Brazil? And the fourth question, how can we tell the very strong benefit of higher prices in 2021 and 2022 from specific initiatives by the company in good results in these 2 years? I give the floor back to the company's management.

第三個問題。為什麼巴西螺紋鋼價格下跌？第四個問題，我們如何從公司在這兩年取得良好成果的具體舉措中看出 2021 年和 2022 年價格上漲的巨大好處？我把發言權還給公司管理層。

Okay, Carlos. Let us begin again. So Carlos, when you think about performance, how can we tell things from another? We can check the performance, the evolution of margins and results that we achieved for 24 months compared to other operations and other business. We understand we had a significant improvement, considering not only absolute numbers, but also percentage-wise in our margins. Today, we understand there was substantial progress, which was not only exclusively coming from the market but also stemming from what we do in our effort. I think this relative comparison can help to show this.

好的，卡洛斯。讓我們重新開始。所以卡洛斯，當你考慮性能時，我們如何區分彼此？我們可以檢查與其他運營和其他業務相比，我們在 24 個月內取得的績效、利潤率變化和結果。我們知道我們有了顯著的改善，不僅考慮絕對數字，而且考慮我們利潤率的百分比。今天，我們了解到取得了實質性進展，這不僅完全來自市場，還源於我們所做的努力。我認為這種相對比較可以幫助說明這一點。

About CapEx, I think I also mentioned in a previous question by a colleague, the BRL 5 billion are absolutely and exclusively investment in steel, our core business, out of which 50% maintenance and 50% growth and competitiveness, projects with specific returns. These BRL 5 billion do not include whatsoever, the investments foreseen for Gerdau Next. We gave a range, and why is it a range? Because we don't have the total control because these are partnerships or joint ventures, investments with other companies, and in most cases, we are minority holders.

關於資本支出，我想我在之前一位同事的問題中也提到過，50 億雷亞爾絕對是專門投資於我們的核心業務鋼鐵，其中 50% 的維護和 50% 的增長和競爭力，具有特定回報的項目。這 50 億巴西雷亞爾不包括 Gerdau Next 的預期投資。我們給了一個範圍，為什麼是范圍？因為我們沒有完全控制權，因為這些是合夥企業或合資企業，與其他公司的投資，在大多數情況下，我們是少數股東。

These investments range between BRL 500 million and BRL 800 million for year 2023. All investments that we mentioned before, they already announced, and they're following their natural course over time, and they are reflected in our cash flow in our investment line. When we invest in a company that is not 100% Gerdau owned, we follow and CapEx is in our PP&E and later will be depreciation. And when we have share in new companies, they get into the cash flow and investment line and consequently, in the balance sheet.

到 2023 年，這些投資將在 5 億至 8 億巴西雷亞爾之間。我們之前提到的所有投資，他們已經宣布，並且隨著時間的推移，它們正在遵循自然進程，它們反映在我們投資項目的現金流中。當我們投資一家非 Gerdau 100% 擁有的公司時，我們會遵循，資本支出在我們的 PP&E 中，稍後會折舊。當我們持有新公司的股份時，它們就會進入現金流和投資線，從而進入資產負債表。

Can I just say about -- something about rebar and then we go back to working capital? Right. In Brazil, rebar, had this very negative import premium because it was 45 days very active, it was very seasonal since early December with the World Cup. And then expectations, particularly by distribution clients, they had expectations about the policies with the new administration.

我能不能說一下——關於螺紋鋼的一些事情，然後我們回到營運資金？正確的。在巴西，螺紋鋼的進口溢價非常負，因為它有 45 天非常活躍，自 12 月初世界杯以來非常季節性。然後是期望，尤其是分銷客戶的期望，他們對新政府的政策有期望。

On our side, we stopped all production plans because we needed longer maintenance in our scrap-based plants. And post pandemic in 2021 and 2022, there was a growing demand. We felt the need to cater to the market needs, and we increased exports. So we had shorter maintenance downtimes in December 2021. And if we put it all together, I would say it led to this abnormal episode, which is import premiums for rebar below what we usually have.

在我們這邊，我們停止了所有生產計劃，因為我們的廢料工廠需要更長時間的維護。在 2021 年和 2022 年大流行之後，需求不斷增長。我們覺得有必要迎合市場需求，因此增加了出口。因此，我們在 2021 年 12 月的維護停機時間更短。如果我們把所有這些放在一起，我會說這導致了這一異常事件，即螺紋鋼的進口溢價低於我們通常的水平。

So overall speaking, that's for rebar. And I'll highlight what I said before, saying that right now, this has been recovered. We are confident that over the coming weeks, we'll see a change.

所以總的來說，這是用於鋼筋的。我會強調我之前說過的話，說現在，這已經恢復了。我們相信在接下來的幾週內，我們會看到變化。

I think there is still a topic about working capital, right Japur?

我認為還有一個關於營運資金的話題，對吧賈普爾？

Carlos, working capital, well, we needed to go up because it means we are selling more steel for better prices. Jokes aside, we ended the cash conversion cycle higher than we usually see, 81 days, owing to the shrunk we had, particularly in the Brazilian market, which has a big operation with high volumes.

卡洛斯，營運資金，嗯，我們需要增加，因為這意味著我們以更好的價格出售更多的鋼鐵。撇開玩笑不談，我們結束了比通常看到的更高的現金轉換週期，即 81 天，這是由於我們的收縮，特別是在巴西市場，該市場的業務量很大。

Like Gustavo mentioned, in his introduction, we have seen since day 15, January 15, a resumption in the sales volume in Brazil. And with that, we expect that the volumes of sales shipments over 2023 be in line with what we set over 2022. So possibly over this first quarter, we expect to see a slight reduction in the cash conversion cycle and working capital days. However, because we still expect to see a new volume or different shipment mix in our BOs like U.S. and Brazil, we expect to see this change in working capital.

正如古斯塔沃在他的介紹中提到的那樣，自 1 月 15 日第 15 天以來，我們看到巴西的銷量有所恢復。因此，我們預計 2023 年的銷售出貨量將與我們設定的 2022 年一致。因此，可能在第一季度，我們預計現金轉換週期和營運資金天數將略有減少。然而，由於我們仍然希望在美國和巴西等我們的 BOs 看到新的數量或不同的出貨組合，我們預計會看到營運資金的這種變化。

Back to you, Renata.

回到你身邊，雷娜塔。

Carlos De Alba sent a final question. He's asking us what is the historical backlog in North American operations vis-a-vis the current one?

Carlos De Alba 發出了最後一個問題。他在問我們，與當前相比，北美業務的歷史積壓情況如何？

Well, in general, Carlos, we could say that historical backlog, it would go from around 500,000 tonnes in our case. It has reached -- in the best demand moments post pandemic, it went over 1 million tonnes. And right now, it is over 700,000 tonnes, and it is still posting growth.

嗯，總的來說，卡洛斯，我們可以說歷史積壓，在我們的案例中，它將從大約 500,000 噸開始。它已經達到 - 在大流行後的最佳需求時刻，它超過了 100 萬噸。而現在，它超過了 700,000 噸，並且還在增長。

Thank you, Werneck. We have a question from Mary, sell-side analyst from Banco do Brasil. She has 2 questions.

謝謝你，韋內克。我們有來自 Banco do Brasil 的賣方分析師 Mary 提出的問題。她有兩個問題。

And I have 2 questions. First, could you share how is the market in the U.S. based on these 2 first months of 2023. And if you expect to continue operating close to the installed capacity limit in North America business operation?

我有兩個問題。首先，您能否分享一下 2023 年頭 2 個月美國市場的情況。您是否希望在北美業務運營中繼續接近裝機容量限制？

And second question is about the investments. Can we expect a higher level of CapEx in the next years when compared to the prior years? I turn the floor back to you.

第二個問題是關於投資。與前幾年相比，我們能否期望未來幾年的資本支出水平更高？我把地板還給你。

Okay. Mary, thank you very much. I have already touched on these 2 topics, but I will stress what we already said. January and February have been months that were very good, above our expectation. This backlog started strong in the beginning of the year. So it is higher than our expectations, but we are very prudent and cautious.

好的。瑪麗，非常感謝你。我已經談到了這兩個主題，但我會強調我們已經說過的話。一月和二月的表現非常好，超出了我們的預期。這種積壓在年初開始很強勁。所以它高於我們的預期，但我們非常謹慎和謹慎。

And also considering our 122-year experience, we imagine that this could happen. We turned the year with a little bit more of inventory, better prepared to cater to an increased demand if it were to happen, which it did happen. And so we were prepared to have higher delivery in January and February. And we expect that the demand will continue to be high.

並且考慮到我們 122 年的經驗，我們認為這可能會發生。我們以更多的庫存度過了這一年，更好地準備好滿足需求的增長，如果它發生的話，它確實發生了。因此，我們準備在 1 月和 2 月有更高的交付量。我們預計需求將繼續保持高位。

We hear people saying that the economy might change, that there might be a recession, but this is being moved ahead. So as far as investments are concerned, the BRL 5 billion, I also mentioned, we are trying to normalize that level. We already consider or are considering the downtime in Ouro Branco in 2025, so that we don't have surprises over the years, and we do not expect a higher CapEx.

我們聽到人們說經濟可能會發生變化，可能會出現衰退，但這正在向前推進。因此，就投資而言，我也提到了 50 億雷亞爾，我們正在努力使這一水平正常化。我們已經考慮或正在考慮 2025 年 Ouro Branco 的停機時間，這樣多年來我們就不會出現意外，我們預計資本支出不會更高。

So I would say this is the level that we will be seeing in the next few years. And remember, we are already including in that amount, the needs of the stoppage for the Blast Furnace 1 and other needs of Ouro Branco.

所以我想說這是我們將在未來幾年看到的水平。請記住，我們已經將 Blast Furnace 1 停工的需求和 Ouro Branco 的其他需求包括在該金額中。

Thank you, Werneck. We received a question from [Eduardo Belmonte], sell-side analyst. Congratulations on the results. Gerdau is generating a lot of good results. And the Brazilian macroeconomic scenario in Brazil is difficult and the strategy for the results is important to generate value to shareholders.

謝謝你，韋內克。我們收到了賣方分析師 [Eduardo Belmonte] 的問題。祝賀結果。 Gerdau 取得了很多不錯的成績。巴西的宏觀經濟形勢很艱難，結果戰略對於為股東創造價值很重要。

Do you consider to maximize the distribution interest on equity and dividends and not the buyback considering that the company has greater fiscal benefits and shareholders can buy back shares if shareholders want?

考慮到公司有更大的財政利益，如果股東願意，股東可以回購股票，你是否考慮最大化股權和股息的分配利益而不是回購？

In 2022, we had a lot of dividends paid out. If you think about the amount paid to our shareholders between buyback and dividends, predominantly, we invested to return to shareholders via dividends. Could we have done it with more buyback? Yes, but we didn't. We decided to favor effective liquidity to our shareholders.

2022年，我們派了很多股息。如果你考慮在回購和股息之間支付給股東的金額，主要是我們投資通過股息回報股東。我們可以通過更多回購來做到這一點嗎？是的，但我們沒有。我們決定為我們的股東提供有效的流動性。

And even if we purge from the payout, all buyback and consider only the BRL 6 billion, BRL 6.1 billion as dividends, this was way above the 30% set by our policy buyer bylaws Articles of Association. So we think it is important to continue returning to our shareholders. However, buybacks are also good when our active prices are discounted vis-a-vis what we believe makes sense in the longer term.

即使我們從支出中清除所有回購併僅考慮 60 億巴西雷亞爾，61 億巴西雷亞爾作為股息，這也遠遠高於我們的政策買方章程規定的 30%。所以我們認為繼續回報我們的股東很重要。然而，當我們的活躍價格相對於我們認為在長期內有意義的價格有所折扣時，回購也是好的。

So it's an efficient way to allocate value to shareholders without having to declare dividends, extraordinary dividends out of quarters. So we can return value to shareholders away from the periodic earnings release windows. As an exception, Gerdau already adopts this practice of paying dividends on a quarterly basis. This is a liberal action by the company vis-a-vis was set by the corporate law.

因此，這是一種向股東分配價值的有效方式，而無需宣布股息、季度外的特別股息。因此，我們可以在定期收益發布窗口之外向股東返還價值。作為例外，Gerdau 已經採用這種按季度支付股息的做法。這是公司相對於公司法規定的自由行為。

He talked about IOC strategy right, Japur?

他談到了國際奧委會的戰略，對吧，賈普爾？

Yes. As for IOC, we always go to the limit of what brings financial expense efficiency. We have some limits in terms of availability for the account of IOC in our holding company structure and subsidiaries -- operational subsidiaries that sometimes pay IOC through Gerdau S.A. So we always keep an eye in terms of tax savings and try to take into account the levels of profitability of our subsidiaries and obligation levels and effects and deductible expenses at Gerdau S.A.

是的。至於國際奧委會，我們總是追求財務費用效率的極限。我們在控股公司結構和子公司中的 IOC 帳戶的可用性方面有一些限制 - 有時通過 Gerdau S.A. 支付 IOC 的運營子公司。因此我們始終關注節稅並嘗試考慮水平我們子公司的盈利能力以及 Gerdau S.A. 的義務水平和影響以及可扣除費用

Renata, back to you.

雷娜塔，回到你身邊。

Thank you. We have a question from [Victor], sell-side analyst, (inaudible). What can we expect for exports for the business unit of Brazil in 2023? And how are the margins?

謝謝。賣方分析師 [Victor]（聽不清）提出了一個問題。我們對 2023 年巴西業務部門的出口有何期待？利潤率如何？

Good question, Victor. It's good for us to comment on that. Well, in general, we should be in Brazil with the operation at a level of 13% of exports. So this is a level that historically is lower. We did have moments at '18, '17, '19 where we would support 28% of our productive capacity. But since the pandemic, we are bringing down these numbers to lower than 20%. So I believe that it's going to be around 13%.

問得好，維克多。我們對此發表評論是件好事。好吧，總的來說，我們在巴西的業務應該占出口的 13%。所以這是一個歷史上較低的水平。在 18 年、17 年、19 年，我們確實有過支持 28% 的生產能力的時刻。但自大流行以來，我們將這些數字降低到 20% 以下。所以我相信它會在 13% 左右。

We held exports now in December and January because international prices were not very good for exports. But with the recovery of international prices, we closed good deals with interest margins to deliver from April on. So in the second quarter of this year, we will see a growth in exports and higher margins. But in the consolidated in the area, we believe that we should be around 13% in our export.

我們現在在 12 月和 1 月舉行出口，因為國際價格對出口來說不是很好。但隨著國際價格的回升，我們完成了從 4 月開始交付的利差良好的交易。因此，在今年第二季度，我們將看到出口增長和更高的利潤率。但在該地區的合併中，我們認為我們的出口應該在 13% 左右。

[Luis Spinola] has a question. He wants to know about CapEx allocation in the future. North American BO, considering the excellent moment and excellent outlook, should it deserve more investments compared to the total expected by the company for 2023?

[路易斯斯皮諾拉]有一個問題。他想了解未來的資本支出分配情況。北美 BO，考慮到時機和前景都很好，與公司 2023 年的預期總額相比，它是否應該得到更多的投資？

North America has been fully receiving funds and resources to meet the needs and CapEx possibilities, that's for the last 5 years. And for the coming years, it will remain as such. So these are investments earmarked to improve production capacity, particularly in those mills when we have the chance to expand our asset portfolio and meet the needs of local markets.

在過去的 5 年裡，北美一直在充分接收資金和資源來滿足需求和資本支出的可能性。在接下來的幾年裡，它將保持原樣。因此，這些投資專門用於提高產能，特別是在我們有機會擴大資產組合併滿足當地市場需求的工廠中。

We invested massively in our [Cartersville] mill in Georgia, investments in Jackson, in West Tennessee. And right now, we are investing in Whitby mill in Canada, investing in Midlothian, Texas, important investments. So this is the adequate level, in my opinion.

我們在佐治亞州的 [Cartersville] 工廠進行了大量投資，在西田納西州的傑克遜進行了投資。現在，我們正在投資加拿大的惠特比工廠，投資德克薩斯州的中洛錫安，這是一項重要的投資。所以我認為這是足夠的水平。

We don't lack funds and resources to invest in North America and also to benefit from these investments and return that these investments can bring us considering the current market and what we expect to see in the market very strongly in the coming years.

我們不缺乏資金和資源來投資北美，也從這些投資和回報中受益，這些投資可以給我們帶來考慮當前市場以及我們期望在未來幾年非常強勁地看到的市場。

We are coming to an end to our call, but we still have many questions. But we have time for one last question. David Fink from Contrarian asks us, out of the BRL 830 million of CapEx for the environment, is that included in the BRL 2.5 billion maintenance CapEx? Or is that considered as expansion CapEx?

我們的電話會議即將結束，但我們仍有許多問題。但我們還有時間問最後一個問題。 Contrarian 的 David Fink 問我們，在 8.3 億雷亞爾的環境資本支出中，是否包含在 25 億巴西雷亞爾的維護資本支出中？或者這被認為是擴張資本支出？

Japur, do you want to answer that?

Japur，你想回答這個問題嗎？

David, it's nice to see you again here. While these investments have a mix between competitiveness and maintenance, sometimes investments in maintenance, they revert to the environment because we switch -- a machine, sometimes it's a simple maintenance, but we switch that machine by a more efficient one with better energy efficiency or with a better level of emissions. So that also allows us to provide benefits to the environment. And sometimes, we have investments in competitiveness and expansion that also generate benefits to the environment.

大衛，很高興再次在這裡見到你。雖然這些投資混合了競爭力和維護，有時是維護投資，但它們會回歸到環境中，因為我們更換了一台機器，有時只是簡單的維護，但我們將那台機器更換為一台效率更高、能效更高的機器，或者具有更好的排放水平。因此，這也使我們能夠為環境帶來好處。有時，我們在競爭力和擴張方面進行投資，這也會為環境帶來好處。

This year, we are investing in a better vegetable formation of our forests that we use in miniaturized state for the bio reduction of the steel with a very low CO2 emission, one of the most efficient routes possible in terms of eco-friendliness. And this is an investment that we configure as maintenance, but it does generate an environmental benefit. So under this line of investments that are good for the environment, we can have expansion and maintenance projects there.

今年，我們正在投資改善我們森林的植物形成，我們在小型化狀態下使用這些植物來生物還原鋼鐵，二氧化碳排放量非常低，這是生態友好性方面最有效的途徑之一。這是一項我們配置為維護的投資，但它確實產生了環境效益。因此，在這種對環境有益的投資項目下，我們可以在那裡進行擴建和維護項目。

Thank you, Japur. We're getting to the end of our earnings conference call. And now we give the floor back to Gustavo Werneck with the final remarks.

謝謝你，賈普爾。我們的收益電話會議即將結束。現在我們把最後的發言權交還給 Gustavo Werneck。

So just very briefly, on behalf of myself, Japur, Renata, and Investor Relations team, would like to thank you all for joining us today. It's always a huge pleasure to talk to you. And if you have any further questions or a point that was not clarified, your team is fully available for you.

因此，非常簡短地代表我自己、Japur、Renata 和投資者關係團隊，感謝大家今天加入我們。與您交談總是非常高興。如果您有任何進一步的問題或未闡明的要點，您的團隊隨時為您服務。

And I would also like to invite you to join our next earnings release conference call regarding the first quarter of 2023, and which will take place on May 3. Thank you very much. All the best, and take care. See you soon.

我還想邀請您參加我們將於 5 月 3 日舉行的關於 2023 年第一季度的下一次收益發布電話會議。非常感謝。一切順利，保重。再見。