Fortinet Inc (FTNT) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(audio in progress) via webcast on our Investor Relations website. The prepared remarks will also be posted on the quarterly earnings section of our Investor Relations website following today's call. Lastly, all references to growth are on a year-over-year basis, unless noted otherwise.

（音訊播放中）透過我們投資者關係網站的網路直播進行。今天的電話會議結束後，準備好的發言稿也將發佈在我們投資者關係網站的季度收益部分。最後，除非另有說明，所有關於成長的描述均指同比增速。

I'll now turn over the call to Ken.

現在我將把電話交給肯。

Thank you, Anthony. Thank you to everyone joining our call. We are pleased with our excellent third quarter performance driven by strong execution and broad-based demand across the organization of our sites as we grow faster than the market in all 3 pillars of our business as shown on Slide 4. Building revenue both grew by 14% with a record third quarter operation margin of 37%. Unified SASE building grew 19%, driven by FortiSASE growth of over 100%, making us one of the fastest-growing SASE leader and scale.

謝謝你，安東尼。感謝各位參與本次通話。我們對第三季的出色業績感到滿意，這得益於我們各站點的強勁執行力和廣泛的市場需求，正如幻燈片 4 所示，我們在業務的三大支柱領域都實現了比市場更快的增長。建築收入成長了 14%，第三季營業利潤率創下 37% 的歷史新高。統一 SASE 建置成長了 19%，這主要得益於 FortiSASE 成長超過 100%，使我們成為成長最快的 SASE 領導者和規模企業之一。

Our strong growth driven by our key differentiated advantages. Fortinet is the only vendor to natively integrate next-gen firewall, SD-WAN and SASE on a single operational system for the U.S. with the flexibility to run both on-premise and in the cloud. This single OS integration allows customer to expand from our leading net firewall and SD-WAN to SASE in minutes, providing a significant upsell opportunity within our large customer base. Our solution also enables sovereign SASE for service providers and large enterprise to deploy FortiSASE within their own data center for data privacy, plus Fortinet's investment in owned global cloud infrastructure for the cloud delivers long-term security, performance and cost benefit reducing total cost of ownership by roughly 1/3, not compared to our peers.

我們強勁的成長得益於我們的關鍵差異化優勢。Fortinet 是唯一一家在美國將新一代防火牆、SD-WAN 和 SASE 原生整合到單一作業系統上的供應商，並且能夠靈活地在本地和雲端運作。這種單一作業系統整合使客戶能夠在幾分鐘內從我們領先的網路防火牆和 SD-WAN 擴展到 SASE，從而為我們龐大的客戶群提供了重要的追加銷售機會。我們的解決方案還使服務供應商和大型企業能夠在自己的資料中心部署 FortiSASE，從而實現自主 SASE，以保護資料隱私。此外，Fortinet 對自有全球雲端基礎設施的投資，為雲端帶來了長期的安全性、效能和成本效益，與同行相比，總擁有成本降低了約 1/3。

This key advantage have led to our recognition as a leader in the 2025 GarnerMagic Quadrant for SASE platform as shown on Slide 6. Our strong leadership position is to reflect in customer adoption with 15% of large enterprise customers now using FortiSASE represent 55% growth as shown on Slide 10. Based on this momentum, we are confident in our ability to become the number 1 SASE market leader in the next few years.

這項關鍵優勢使我們被公認為 2025 年 GarnerMagic Quadrant 中 SASE 平台的領導者，如幻燈片 6 所示。我們強大的領導地位體現在客戶的採用率上，目前 15% 的大型企業客戶正在使用 FortiSASE，這代表著 55% 的成長，如投影片 10 所示。憑藉著這一發展勢頭，我們有信心在未來幾年內成為SASE市場的第一大領導者。

In secure networking, building growth 10%, outperforming the overall secure networking market as we continue to gain market share. Fortinet is the number 1 leader in firewall with a unit market share of over 50% and highest product revenue among our separate security peers. Fortinet leadership in firewall is unable by FortiOS that's unified networking and security and is accelerated by FortiASIC with a huge secure computing power, which enable more function and deliver 10x better performance than our competitors, while lowering the total cost of ownership and energy consumption. This security and performance advantage was further raided by Gartner as Fortinet recognized as a leader in an inaugurated quadrant for hybrid mass firewall where we ran the highest in ability to execute.

在安全網路領域，我們實現了 10% 的成長，超過了整個安全網路市場，並且我們仍在擴大市場份額。Fortinet 是防火牆領域的領導企業，市佔率超過 50%，並且在我們各自的安全同行中產品收入最高。Fortinet 在防火牆領域的領先地位得益於 FortiOS，它統一了網路和安全，並由 FortiASIC 加速，具有強大的安全運算能力，從而能夠實現更多功能，並提供比競爭對手高 10 倍的性能，同時降低總體擁有成本和能耗。Gartner 進一步挖掘了 Fortinet 在安全性和效能方面的優勢，將 Fortinet 評為混合型大規模防火牆新象限的領導者，我們在執行能力方面表現最佳。

Building on this foundation, we recently launched a Forti -- secure AIT center solution specifically designed for AI workload where we leverage our ASIC advantage, helping Fortinet capture a massive growth opportunity as customers scale AI globally. AI-driven Secure up was the fastest-growing pillar in the third quarter with building growth of 33%. Fortinet's industry-leading patent portfolio of more than 500 issued and pending AI pattern powering over 20 AI-driven solutions are shown on Slide 12, offers the broadest and the most integrated driven secure operation portfolio in the industry.

在此基礎上，我們最近推出了 Forti——一個專為 AI 工作負載設計的安全 AIT 中心解決方案，利用我們的 ASIC 優勢，幫助 Fortinet 抓住客戶在全球擴展 AI 的巨大增長機會。在第三季度，AI 驅動的安全保障是成長最快的支柱，成長率達到 33%。Fortinet 擁有業界領先的專利組合，包括 500 多個已頒發和正在申請的 AI 模式，為 20 多個 AI 驅動的解決方案提供支援（如幻燈片 12 所示），提供業界最廣泛、最整合的 AI 驅動安全操作組合。

Fortinet security leadership also extends to operational technology and cyber physical system security, where our solution provides deep visibility, advanced threat protection and security connectivity. Our operational technology and critical infrastructure solution are other significant growth driver for Fortinet with over 30% building growth.

Fortinet 的安全領先地位也延伸至營運技術和網路實體系統安全，我們的解決方案提供深度可視性、進階威脅防護和安全連接。我們的營運技術和關鍵基礎設施解決方案是 Fortinet 的另一個成長動力，實現了超過 30% 的業務成長。

Lastly, as a result of a strong growth opportunity that lie ahead, we remain confident that we will continue to meet the rule Fortify and continue to gain market share and outperformed the overall market growth in 2025, 2026 and beyond, consistent with our midterm target provided at last year's Analyst Day. I would like to thank our employees, customers, partners and suppliers worldwide for their continued support and hard work.

最後，由於未來擁有強勁的成長機會，我們仍然有信心繼續滿足規則要求，並繼續獲得市場份額，在 2025 年、2026 年及以後超越整體市場成長，這與我們去年分析師日提出的中期目標一致。我要感謝我們全球的員工、客戶、合作夥伴和供應商一直以來的支持和辛勤付出。

I will now turn the call over to Christiane.

現在我將把電話轉給克里斯蒂安娜。

Thank you, Ken, and good afternoon, everyone. As Ken mentioned, Fortinet's growth and momentum remains strong, and we are very pleased with our third quarter performance, solid operational execution and healthy broad-based demand for our solutions. Total billings grew by 14% to $1.81 billion, driven by 19% growth in Unified SASE, 33% growth in SecOps, continued growth in sales to large enterprises and robust performance in OT and critical infrastructure. Unified SASE and SecOps now account for 26% and 11% of total billings, respectively, up a combined 3 points. And FortiSASE delivered exceptional results with billings growth of over 100%, which positions Fortinet as a leader in the SASE space.

謝謝你，肯，大家下午好。正如 Ken 所提到的，Fortinet 的成長勢頭依然強勁，我們對第三季的業績、穩健的營運執行以及市場對我們解決方案的廣泛需求感到非常滿意。總帳單金額成長 14% 至 18.1 億美元，主要得益於統一 SASE 成長 19%，SecOps 成長 33%，面向大型企業的銷售持續成長，以及 OT 和關鍵基礎設施的強勁表現。統一 SASE 和 SecOps 目前分別佔總帳單的 26% 和 11%，合計增加了 3 個百分點。FortiSASE 取得了卓越的成果，帳單成長超過 100%，這使得 Fortinet 成為 SASE 領域的領導者。

Furthermore, SASE adoption momentum has remained strong as 15% of our large enterprise customers have purchased FortiSASE an increase of over 55%, highlighting our continued expansion of FortiSASE in our customer base.

此外，SASE 的普及動能依然強勁，15% 的大型企業客戶購買了 FortiSASE，增幅超過 55%，這凸顯了 FortiSASE 在客戶群中的持續擴張。

As I mentioned earlier, continued momentum in large enterprise contributed to growth in the third quarter, as the number of deals greater than $1 million increased by 26%, while the total dollar value grew by over 30%. As in prior quarters, operational technology use cases contributed to our success with billings growth of over 30% and broad-based demand for both our hardware and software solutions. In addition, we continue to expand our customer base. Approximately 6,600 new organizations shows our unified single FortiOS platform to power their cybersecurity strategy, which exemplifies our continued strong position in all segments of the market.

正如我之前提到的，大型企業持續成長勢頭推動了第三季的成長，超過 100 萬美元的交易數量增加了 26%，總金額增加了 30% 以上。與前幾季一樣，營運技術用例為我們的成功做出了貢獻，帳單成長超過 30%，並且對我們的硬體和軟體解決方案都有廣泛的需求。此外，我們也不斷擴大客戶群。約有 6,600 個新組織展示了我們統一的單一 FortiOS 平台，以支援他們的網路安全策略，這體現了我們在市場各個領域持續的強大地位。

With regards to ARR, unified SASE increased by 13% to $1.22 billion and SecOps increased by 25% to $472 million. Total revenue grew by 14% to $1.72 billion, led by EMEA, followed by APAC and the Americas. Product revenue increased by 18% to $559 million, benefiting from strong performance in multiproduct deals across a variety of use cases and OT security as we continue to gain market share. FortiGate Firewalls, networking equipment and software all delivered strong double-digit growth, with software license revenue up 20% and representing a mid- to high-teens percentage of total product revenue.

就 ARR 而言，統一 SASE 成長了 13%，達到 12.2 億美元，SecOps 成長了 25%，達到 4.72 億美元。總營收成長 14% 至 17.2 億美元，其中歐洲、中東和非洲地區 (EMEA) 的成長最為顯著，其次是亞太地區 (APAC) 和美洲地區 (Americas)。產品收入成長 18% 至 5.59 億美元，這得益於我們在各種用例和 OT 安全領域的多產品交易的強勁表現，我們繼續擴大市場份額。FortiGate 防火牆、網路設備和軟體均實現了強勁的兩位數成長，其中軟體授權收入成長了 20%，佔產品總收入的 15% 到 20% 的比例。

Hardware revenue growth was broad-based, which included growth from ongoing technology upgrades, expansion across products along our various customer journeys and expansion into new use cases. The 2026 end of support cohort was not a significant driver of product revenue growth in the third quarter.

硬體收入成長基礎廣泛，包括持續的技術升級帶來的成長、產品在各種客戶旅程中的擴展以及向新用例的擴展。2026 年停止支援的使用者群體並沒有成為第三季產品收入成長的主要驅動力。

Service revenue grew by 13% to $1.17 billion. We see our improved product revenue growth and customer expansions in 2025 as leading indicators for improving service revenue growth expected for the second half of 2026.

服務收入成長13%，達到11.7億美元。我們認為，2025 年產品收入成長的改善和客戶群的擴張是 2026 年下半年服務收入成長的領先指標。

Now I'd like to highlight some key deals that demonstrate our market leadership and a variety of use cases that our products are supporting. In a competitive win, a global Fortune 150 e-commerce company operating a worldwide logistics and fulfillment network expanded its investment in Fortinet with a new AI data center project. Already leveraging Fortinet firewalls across their data centers and hundreds of warehouses, the customer selected Fortinet to secure and optimize their new AI workloads requiring extreme throughput and reliability. They chose Fortinet for our ASIC-based FortiGate architecture, which delivers high performance, low latency, and lower power consumption as well as advanced security that protects AI data flows and models without compromising speed.

現在我想重點介紹一些關鍵交易，這些交易體現了我們的市場領導地位以及我們的產品所支援的各種應用場景。在激烈的競爭中，一家經營全球物流和配送網路的財富 150 強電子商務公司透過一個新的 AI 資料中心項目，擴大了對 Fortinet 的投資。該客戶已在其資料中心和數百個倉庫中使用 Fortinet 防火牆，並選擇 Fortinet 來保護和優化其需要極高吞吐量和可靠性的全新 AI 工作負載。他們選擇 Fortinet 是因為我們基於 ASIC 的 FortiGate 架構，該架構可提供高效能、低延遲和更低的功耗，以及先進的安全性，可在不影響速度的情況下保護 AI 資料流和模型。

The customer is achieving improved workload control, lower operating costs and is now looking to further expand their data center footprint with Fortinet. This customer win highlights the energy consumption advantages of our proprietary ASIC, which has become even more important to our customers in a new era of AI data centers.

客戶透過 Fortinet 實現了更好的工作負載控制、更低的營運成本，現在正尋求進一步擴大其資料中心規模。這次贏得客戶凸顯了我們專有 ASIC 的能耗優勢，這在人工智慧資料中心的新時代對我們的客戶來說變得更加重要。

Next, in an 8-figure deal, a large city police force purchased Fortinet SD-WAN, SD branch and Sovereign SASE, displacing multiple vendors, including their previous SASE provider. The customer Sovereign SASE deployment ensures compliance with local data governance requirements gives full control of critical assets and results performance issues experienced with their prior provider. The police force chose Fortinet for its flexible and consistent security enforcement and single operating system. This enables secure access to both on-premises and cloud applications, while supporting a network transformation project that will enhance public safety and trust.

接下來，一家大型城市警察部隊斥資八位數購買了 Fortinet SD-WAN、SD branch 和 Sovereign SASE，取代了包括他們之前的 SASE 提供者在內的多家供應商。客戶自主 SASE 部署可確保符合本地資料治理要求，以實現對關鍵資產的完全控制，並解決先前供應商遇到的效能問題。警方選擇 Fortinet 是因為其靈活、一致的安全執行和單一作業系統。這既能確保對本地和雲端應用程式的安全訪問，又能支援網路轉型項目，從而增強公共安全和信任。

In a competitive new customer win and operational technology organization purchased more than 10 Fortinet solutions across all 3 pillars, consolidating multiple security functions onto our single FortiOS operating system. The customer selected Fortinet for our unified security fabric platform, which simplifies operations due to a significant reduction of required integrations, improved visibility and lowers total cost of ownership. With centralized management and streamlined operations, they now have the agility and scalability to grow securely and enable their digital transformation.

在競爭激烈的新客戶爭奪戰中，營運技術組織購買了 10 多套 Fortinet 解決方案，涵蓋所有 3 個支柱，將多個安全功能整合到我們單一的 FortiOS 作業系統上。客戶選擇 Fortinet 作為我們的統一安全架構平台，該平台透過大幅減少所需的整合、提高可見度並降低整體擁有成本，簡化了操作。透過集中管理和精簡運營，他們現在擁有了安全成長和實現數位轉型所需的敏捷性和可擴展性。

Lastly, a retail organization who has been a long time Fortinet customer upgraded their FortiGates across more than 10,000 retail locations. They continue to choose Fortinet for our stable performance, consolidated FortiOS operating system and highly automated operations, building on a trusted relationship strengthened by their use of several other Fortinet solutions and our price and performance advantages. The customer is now expanding their Fortinet footprint by exploring adoption of our ZTNA solution to further enhance security and operational efficiency.

最後，一家長期以來一直是 Fortinet 客戶的零售機構升級了其 10,000 多個零售點的 FortiGate 設備。他們繼續選擇 Fortinet，是因為我們穩定的效能、統一的 FortiOS 作業系統和高度自動化的操作，這建立在他們使用其他 Fortinet 解決方案以及我們在價格和效能方面的優勢所加強的信任關係之上。客戶目前正在探索採用我們的 ZTNA 解決方案來擴大其 Fortinet 業務範圍，以進一步提高安全性和營運效率。

Turning to margins and cash flow. Total gross margin of 81.6% was better than expected, driven by strong execution and cost control. Operating margin of 36.9% reached a third quarter record and was up 80 basis points. The increase was primarily due to operational efficiencies and strong cost management. Free cash flow was very strong at $568 million and adjusted free cash flow was up -- was $646 million, up $41 million and represented a margin of 37%.

接下來談談利潤率和現金流。81.6% 的總毛利率高於預期，這得益於強有力的執行和成本控制。營業利益率達 36.9%，創第三季新高，較上一季成長 80 個基點。成長主要歸功於營運效率的提高和強有力的成本控制。自由現金流非常強勁，達到 5.68 億美元，調整後的自由現金流為 6.46 億美元，增加了 4,100 萬美元，利潤率為 37%。

On a year-to-date basis, free cash flow reached $1.63 billion, up $135 million, notwithstanding continued investments in data center infrastructure and increased inventory purchases to meet customer demand.

儘管該公司持續投資資料中心基礎設施並增加庫存採購以滿足客戶需求，但截至目前，自由現金流量仍達到 16.3 億美元，增加了 1.35 億美元。

Infrastructure investments were $88 million, up $51 million as we continue to build out our infrastructure footprint. We repurchased 23.3 million shares of our common stock for an aggregate purchase price of $1.83 billion in the third quarter, which reduced our total share count by approximately 3%. In August, our Board of Directors approved a $1 billion increase in the authorized stock repurchase amount and the remaining share buyback authorization as of today is $796 million.

基礎建設投資額為 8,800 萬美元，比上年增加 5,100 萬美元，我們將繼續擴大基礎設施覆蓋範圍。第三季度，我們以18.3億美元的總購買價回購了2,330萬股普通股，這使我們的總股本減少了約3%。8 月，我們的董事會批准將授權股票回購金額增加 10 億美元，截至今日，剩餘的股票回購授權金額為 7.96 億美元。

Now moving on to guidance. As a reminder, our fourth quarter and full year outlooks, which are summarized on Slides 20 and 21, are subject to the disclaimers regarding forward-looking information that Anthony provided at the beginning of the call. For the fourth quarter, we expect billings in the range of $2.185 billion to $2.285 billion, which at the midpoint represents growth of 12%. Revenue in the range of $1.825 billion to $1.885 billion, which at the midpoint represents growth of 12%. Non-GAAP gross margin of 79% to 80%, non-GAAP operating margin of 34.5% to 35.5%.

接下來進入指導環節。再次提醒大家，我們在投影片 20 和 21 中總結的第四季度和全年展望，受安東尼在電話會議開始時提供的關於前瞻性資訊的免責聲明的約束。我們預計第四季度帳單金額將在 21.85 億美元至 22.85 億美元之間，其中數值代表成長 12%。營收預計在 18.25 億美元至 18.85 億美元之間，其中數值代表成長 12%。非GAAP毛利率為79%至80%，非GAAP營業利益率為34.5%至35.5%。

Non-GAAP earnings per share of $0.73 to $0.75, which assumes a share count between 751 million and 755 million.

非GAAP每股盈餘為0.73美元至0.75美元，假設股份數量介於7.51億股至7.55億股之間。

Infrastructure investments of $60 million to $110 million; a non-GAAP tax rate of 18% and cash taxes of $66 million to $116 million. For the full year, we continue to remain on track to achieve the Rule of 45 for the sixth consecutive year and expect billings in the range of $7.37 billion to $7.47 billion, which at the midpoint represents growth of 14%. Revenue in the range of $6.72 billion to $6.78 billion, which at the midpoint represents growth of 13%. Sovereign revenue in the range of $4.575 billion to $4.595 billion, which at the midpoint represents growth of 13%. Non-GAAP gross margin of 80.25% to 80.75%, non-GAAP operating margin of 34.5% to 35%.

基礎建設投資 6,000 萬美元至 1.1 億美元；非 GAAP 稅率為 18%，現金稅為 6,600 萬美元至 1.16 億美元。全年來看，我們將繼續保持正軌，連續第六年實現 45 法則，預計帳單金額將在 73.7 億美元至 74.7 億美元之間，其中數值代表成長 14%。營收預計在 67.2 億美元至 67.8 億美元之間，其中數值代表成長 13%。主權收入在 45.75 億美元至 45.95 億美元之間，其中數值代表成長 13%。非GAAP毛利率為80.25%至80.75%，非GAAP營業利益率為34.5%至35%。

Non-GAAP earnings per share of $2.66 to $2.70, which assumes a share count of between 764 million and 768 million. Infrastructure investments of $380 million to $430 million; non-GAAP tax rate of 18% and cash taxes of between $400 million and $450 million.

非GAAP每股盈餘為2.66美元至2.70美元，假設股份數量介於7.64億股至7.68億股之間。基礎建設投資 3.8 億美元至 4.3 億美元；非 GAAP 稅率為 18%，現金稅在 4 億至 4.5 億美元之間。

Looking ahead to the next 2 years, consistent with the framework that we provided at our Analyst Day last year, we remain confident that we will continue to meet the Rule of 45 and expect to grow faster than the market in all 3 of our pillars. Our confidence is supported by both secular and company-specific tailwinds. We expect continued strong growth in the demand for our products driven by increased investments in cybersecurity spend from our customers, the convergence of networking and security and vendor consolidation. We expect to continue to outperform the overall market growth due to continued organic innovation and leadership and price performance, which drives a lower total cost of ownership in network security, including operational technology as well as Unified SASE and SecOps. We plan to continue to invest in our go-to-market, including our cloud delivery infrastructure, strategic partner relationships and increased sales capacity.

展望未來兩年，根據我們去年在分析師日上提出的框架，我們仍然有信心繼續遵守 45 法則，並期望在我們所有 3 個支柱領域實現比市場更快的成長。我們的信心得益於長期趨勢和公司本身發展的雙重利好因素。我們預計，在客戶增加網路安全支出、網路和安全整合以及供應商整合的推動下，對我們產品的需求將持續強勁成長。我們預計，憑藉持續的內生創新和領先地位以及價格優勢，我們將繼續超越整體市場成長，從而降低網路安全（包括營運技術以及統一 SASE 和 SecOps）的總擁有成本。我們計劃繼續投資我們的市場推廣，包括我們的雲端交付基礎設施、策略合作夥伴關係和提高銷售能力。

Finally, the rise of AI is expected to further increase demand for our solutions due to the need to secure LLMs and data movement, and we remain committed to continued investments in innovation and the ongoing development of our product portfolio.

最後，人工智慧的興起預計將進一步增加對我們解決方案的需求，因為需要確保LLM和資料傳輸的安全，我們將繼續致力於創新和產品組合的持續開發。

I will now hand the call back over to Anthony to begin the Q&A session.

現在我將把電話交還給安東尼，開始問答環節。

Thank you, Christiane. (Operator Instructions) Operator, open up the line for questions.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安娜。（操作員指示）操作員，開通提問線路。

(Operator Instructions) Tal Liani, Bank of America.

（操作員說明）塔爾·利亞尼，美國銀行。

I want to start from the same line of questions that we had last quarter. Product revenues went up 18%, materially below the Street. The Street expected about 12%. What are the drivers? And what is the impact of refresh product refresh product upgrade related to end of service?

我想從上個季度我們提出的問題著手。產品收入成長了 18%，遠低於市場預期。華爾街預期約12%。驅動因素是什麼？產品更新換代對服務終止有何影響？

This is -- it's driven by the strong demand. You can see there's a few growth drivers I mentioned. So whether the SASE and SecureOP, also OT like grow 30%. So that's all the growth driver. I don't think the end over service as much a growth driver there.

這是由強勁的需求所驅動的。你可以看到，我提到的幾個成長驅動因素都存在。所以無論是 SASE 和 SecureOP，還是 OT，都成長了 30%。這就是所有成長驅動因素。我不認為售後服務是推動成長的主要因素。

And that's also -- we probably will stop tracking that. It's kind of -- I put it this way, I just think I was some example pretty funny. Like it's more like when you buy a new car, you probably would not try to wait your old car totally out of service So the reason to buy a new car is more because you're kind of like the new feature or better performance or some other reason instead of retail, how many, I mean, how the old car kind of when it will be die -- out of service. So that's why I feel it's not a growth driver. And the growth driver, that's also the reason we're keeping gaining market share because the new function we developed and the better hardware, including probably the new ASIC next year, and also the new market we opened up, that drives the growth.

而且，我們可能也會停止追蹤這項數據。這麼說吧，我覺得我舉的例子還蠻搞笑的。這就好比你買新車一樣，你可能不會等到舊車完全報廢才去買。所以買新車的理由更多是因為你喜歡它的新功能、更好的性能或其他原因，而不是因為價格，我的意思是，舊車什麼時候才能報廢。所以我覺得它不是成長的驅動力。而成長的驅動力，也是我們不斷獲得市場份額的原因，是因為我們開發的新功能和更好的硬件，包括明年可能推出的新型ASIC，以及我們開拓的新市場，這些都推動了增長。

That's what we're keeping saying for a few years. I do believe the product revenue on average normal case were kind of around 10% to 15% will be kind of low double-digit growth and which matched quite well for the last 16 years since we IPO. And if you product revenue growth, I feel is kind of normal.

這就是我們幾年來一直在強調的。我相信，在正常情況下，產品收入平均成長率在 10% 到 15% 左右，屬於兩位數的低成長率，這與我們上市以來的 16 年的成長率相當吻合。如果你的產品收入成長，我覺得這很正常。

Yes. Tal, this is John Whittle, and just to follow up on what Ken said. What we see is not a shortage of potential growth drivers and opportunity. If anything, the opportunity is so great that we have to prioritize where we drive growth. We've got a track record of growing faster than the market across all 3 pillars.

是的。塔爾，我是約翰‧惠特爾，我只是想補充一下肯剛才說的話。我們看到的並不缺乏潛在的成長動力和機會。如果有什麼不同的話，那就是機會如此之大，以至於我們必須優先考慮在哪些方面推動成長。我們在三大支柱領域均實現了比市場更快的成長，並且取得了良好的業績記錄。

And like both Christiane and Ken mentioned, we're seeing significant growth in Unified SASE, SecOps, sales to large enterprises, OT and critical infrastructure. And so if anything, our challenge is where do we focus on in terms of the growth drivers, it's not a lack of growth drivers. We have a lot of growth drivers out there. And just -- I talked to a lot of customers, I see just a ton of opportunity out there to grow. And we do have that track record of growing faster than the market across all 3 pillars for some time.

正如 Christiane 和 Ken 所提到的，我們在統一 SASE、SecOps、面向大型企業的銷售、OT 和關鍵基礎設施方面都看到了顯著增長。因此，我們面臨的挑戰是，在成長驅動因素方面，我們應該關注哪些方面，而不是缺乏成長驅動因素。我們有很多成長動力。而且──我和很多客戶聊過，我看到了很多發展機會。而且，我們在所有三個支柱領域都擁有比市場成長更快的良好記錄，這種情況已經持續了一段時間。

Yes, that's where the 3 pillars we showed in last year's Analyst Day and also shown on Slide 4 here. So in each pillar, we have a huge advantage compared to other competitors. We believe we'll gain market share in each pillar that's the growth driver behind.

是的，這就是我們在去年的分析師日上展示的三大支柱，也是這裡第 4 張投影片中所展示的支柱。因此，在每個領域，我們都比其他競爭對手擁有巨大的優勢。我們相信，我們將在每個推動成長的支柱領域中獲得市場份額。

So if that's the case, that's my follow-up. If that's the case, why is the guidance for next quarter kind of uninspiring revenue growth is slightly below the Street? It's less than 12%. What's unique with this quarter versus next quarter or next quarter versus this quarter?

如果情況確實如此，這就是我的後續問題。如果真是這樣，為什麼下一季的營收成長預期略顯平淡，甚至略低於華爾街的預期？不到12%。本季與下季相比有何獨特之處？下季與本季相比又有何獨特之處？

I think that's probably more -- the revenue may relate to the service. You can see the last year -- put it this way, probably finance better than me. The product revenue is a leading indicator of service revenue. Our average service turn probably about 29 months. So last year, the product revenue grew like minus 2%, I believe.

我認為這可能更多——收入可能與服務有關。你可以看看過去一年的情況——這麼說吧，財務方面可能比我更懂行。產品收入是服務收入的領先指標。我們的平均服務週期大概是 29 個月。所以去年，產品收入下降了大約 2%，我記得是這樣。

So that's impact the service revenue for the next probably like 20, 30 months. That's where we believe maybe towards the end of next year, the service revenue is starting to turn around with this year, product revenue grew pretty strong. I believe Q4 last year, we already see some strong turning with the product revenue grew 18%. And also last quarter, Q3, also the product revenue also grew like 18%. So that will be the leading indicator for future service revenue.

因此，這可能會對未來 20 到 30 個月的服務收入產生影響。我們認為，到明年年底，服務收入可能會開始好轉，而今年的產品收入成長相當強勁。我認為去年第四季我們已經看到一些強勁的轉機，產品收入成長了 18%。而且上個季度（第三季），產品收入也成長了約 18%。因此，這將成為未來服務收入的領先指標。

Service revenue probably day 1 of the quarter, maybe 90% of revenue already whatever comes in there. So that's probably the revenue total probably will be impacted by the service revenue. But with the product revenue starting to accelerate, we do believe the future service revenue will be better.

服務收入可能在季度的第一天就已計入，可能佔總收入的 90%，無論最終收入為何。所以總收入可能會受到服務收入的影響。但隨著產品收入開始加速成長，我們相信未來的服務收入會更好。

Fatima Boolani, Citibank.

法蒂瑪·布拉尼，花旗銀行。

I wanted to stick to this discussion area with respect to the services revenue trajectory. I think for all of us, very, very familiar with your model, we can appreciate very attached nature of the services, both in the form of subscriptions and support to the appliances. But I'm wondering, Christiane, if you can help put a finer point on what the trajectory of services growth could look like in the next 12 months? And this is just optically looking at services growth that has decelerated for the ninth consecutive quarter, understanding that there's a 29-month period in which there is a catch-up as well as maybe some of the commentary you shared last quarter with respect to a slower billings to revenue conversion as it relates to some of the customer behavior. So just wondering if we should think about 13% services growth as trough or near trough or if that's maybe not the right way to think about it, I would appreciate any feedback on that.

我想繼續圍繞著服務收入走勢這個主題展開討論。我認為，對於我們這些非常非常熟悉你們模式的人來說，我們都能體會到服務的緊密聯繫，無論是訂閱服務還是對設備的支援。但我很想知道，克里斯蒂安娜，你是否能更準確地指出未來 12 個月服務業成長的軌跡可能會是什麼樣子？這只是從表面上看，服務成長已經連續第九個季度放緩，要知道，接下來有 29 個月的時間可以進行追趕，而且可能也與你上個季度分享的一些評論有關，即賬單到收入的轉化速度放緩與某些客戶行為有關。所以我想知道，我們是否應該將 13% 的服務業成長率視為谷底或接近谷底，或者這種想法是否不恰當？我非常感謝大家的任何回饋。

Fatima, you're right. I provided color in my prepared remarks that we expect service revenue growth to improve in the second half of 2026. And the main reason for that is that, as Ken just said, we had negative billings growth last year, which impacts the attach rate. And we are now seeing -- or negative product billings and product revenue, and we are now seeing product pick up. So that is going to attach more services but some of our customers are buying product ahead of the services until they roll them out.

法蒂瑪，你說得對。我在事先準備好的發言稿中提到，我們預計 2026 年下半年服務收入成長將會改善。主要原因正如 Ken 剛才所說，我們去年的帳單成長為負，這影響了附加率。我們現在看到——或者說是負產品帳單和產品收入，但我們現在看到產品正在回收。因此，這將附加更多服務，但我們的一些客戶會在服務推出之前先購買產品。

And so we are confident that at the end of -- in the second half of next year, we will see a pickup.

因此我們有信心，到明年下半年末，我們將看到回升。

Shaul Eyal, TD Cowen.

Shaul Eyal，TD Cowen。

I had a quick question on that 8-figure SD-WAN SASE and some other components transaction with that police force. If you guys kind of unpack it for us a little bit. How would you characterize probably the SD-WAN being a little bigger than the SASE contribution? Or is it vice versa? So any color you can share with us will be greatly appreciated.

我有一個關於與該警察部門進行的那筆價值八位數的 SD-WAN SASE 和其他一些組件的交易的問題。你們能不能稍微跟我們解釋一下？SD-WAN 的貢獻可能比 SASE 的貢獻略大一些，您如何描述這種情況？還是反過來呢？所以，如果您能與我們分享任何顏色，我們將不勝感激。

Those 8-figure specifically related to SASE right now are a little uncommon. So every type of color will be greatly appreciated.

目前與 SASE 相關的八位數交易並不常見。所以每種顏色都會受到熱烈歡迎。

So the 8-figure deal is a comment is -- related to billings. And so it is a combination of product and services, but we also pointed out, they are building out of Sovereign SASE. So that means they're buying more product and not the cloud-delivered SASE solution. And that's the strength of Fortinet that we deliver all options to our customers, so they can decide whether they want a cloud delivered by Fortinet or whether they want to host it themselves and create their own SASE Service that they have full control over and in the specific case also meets the local data governance requirements. So yes, it's less SASE and more SD-WAN and SD branch in that deal.

所以這筆八位數的交易是一則評論——與帳單有關。因此，它是產品和服務的結合，但我們也指出，他們正在基於主權 SASE 進行建造。所以這意味著他們購買的是產品，而不是雲端交付的 SASE 解決方案。這就是 Fortinet 的優勢所在，我們為客戶提供所有選項，因此他們可以決定是選擇 Fortinet 提供的雲端服務，還是選擇自行託管並建立完全由他們控制的 SASE 服務，並且在特定情況下還能滿足本地資料治理要求。所以，是的，這筆交易與其說是 SASE 協議，不如說是 SD-WAN 和 SD 分公司協議。

Yes. I think the Sovereign SASE is the key reason to win. And also that's a Fortinet unique advantage because whether some government or sort of big enterprise, they want to keep in the data within your own data center, the privacy or some other regulation requirements, that's where like -- just like how the firewall SD-WAN, we combine all SASE together in the same appliance can be went in the cloud and also especially attractive for this kind of like a bigger customer or government or service provider that's a huge advantage. And also some of the functions like -- so SD-WAN also can use in to accelerate. So that's the advantage we have compared to other SASE provider, which they all have a cloud delivery have to go through their kind of cloud infrastructure process data, a lot of customers really don't like that.

是的。我認為主權SASE是獲勝的關鍵因素。這也是 Fortinet 的一個獨特優勢，因為無論是政府機構還是大型企業，他們都希望將資料保留在自己的資料中心內，以滿足隱私或其他監管要求。就像防火牆 SD-WAN 一樣，我們將所有 SASE 功能整合到同一裝置中，可以部署到雲端，這對大型客戶、政府機構或服務供應商來說尤其具有吸引力，這是一個巨大的優勢。還有一些功能，例如－SD-WAN 也可以用來加速。所以，這就是我們相對於其他 SASE 供應商的優勢，他們都有雲端交付，必須透過他們的雲端基礎設施處理數據，很多客戶真的不喜歡這樣。

And at the same time, we have a huge customer base. So we have almost close to 1 million customers. We have like more than half the global firewall deployment. So for all the current customers, very quick, easy to adopt whether SD-WAN or SASE so that's the huge advantage. Also -- much shorter.

同時，我們擁有龐大的客戶群。所以我們現在有將近100萬客戶。我們擁有全球一半以上的防火牆部署份額。因此，對於所有現有客戶而言，無論是 SD-WAN 還是 SASE，採用起來都非常快速方便​​，這就是巨大的優勢。而且──篇幅也短得多。

If you remember, we only SASE 2 years ago, and you can see how quickly we ramp up with all this over $1 billion business there and still grow probably the fast one among all the SASE players with scale over $1 billion. So that gives the confidence will be the leader, number 1 in few years.

如果你還記得的話，我們兩年前才開始涉足 SASE 領域，你可以看到我們發展得多麼迅速，如今的業務規模已超過 10 億美元，而且增長速度可能仍然是所有規模超過 10 億美元的 SASE 參與者中最快的。因此，我們有信心在幾年內成為領導者，排名第一。

Brian Essex, JPMorgan.

Brian Essex，摩根大通。

I guess maybe for Ken, would love to ask a question on your SASE. You guys are a little bit unique in where so much of your SASE business is converting from your installed base upgrade, whether it's from SD-WAN or firewall. What -- could you talk about the rate of SASE penetration or rate of penetration from SASE into your SD-WAN installed base? And what would you need to do to accelerate the volume of business where you can lead with SASE instead of relying on your installed base?

我想問 Ken，我很想問你一個關於 SASE 的問題。你們的情況有點特殊，你們的 SASE 業務很大一部分都是從現有設備的升級轉換而來，無論是 SD-WAN 還是防火牆。什麼？您能談談 SASE 的普及率，或是 SASE 向 SD-WAN 安裝基礎的滲透率嗎？那麼，為了加速業務量成長，以便能夠以 SASE 為主導業務，而不是依賴現有客戶群，您需要做些什麼？

Yes. I think -- yes, that's leverage all like number 1 market share in whether the firewall SD-WAN, we do see the customer much quicker, easy to adopt our SASE solution. Right now, we're more track in the enterprise. That's where we gave the percentage. (inaudible) representation of some customer base.

是的。我認為——是的，這充分利用了我們在防火牆 SD-WAN 領域排名第一的市場份額，我們看到客戶可以更快、更容易地採用我們的 SASE 解決方案。目前，我們更注重企業層面的追蹤。這就是我們給出百分比的地方。 （聽不清楚）代表部分客戶群。

We also have a lot of SASE goes through our service provider, goes to world kind of a channel partner, which a little bit difficult for us to track in just like our SD-WAN sometimes we offer SD-WAN for free, which we see -- we are the number 1 player in SD-WAN, and that's also very different than all the other competitors pretty much all other top 5, top 10 players, they all come from acquisition. So if they do their SASE, they have to have a separate SC-1box and then which we feel much kind of a weaker or more difficult to manage compare. We have a single box solution there. So that's where SASE quick ramp up, wherever quick growth. That's why we mentioned the FortiSASE grew 100% is -- I feel pretty excited about this opportunity and all the team out of the field all the channel partners also like it a lot.

我們還有很多 SASE 透過我們的服務供應商，銷往全球通路合作夥伴，這讓我們很難追踪，就像我們的 SD-WAN 一樣，我們有時會免費提供 SD-WAN，我們看到——我們是 SD-WAN 領域的領頭羊，這與其他所有競爭對手都截然不同，幾乎所有排名前 5、前 10 的競爭對手都是透過收購獲得的。所以如果他們使用 SASE，他們就必須使用單獨的 SC-1 盒子，我們覺得這相比之下要弱一些或更難管理。我們那裡有一個一體化的解決方案。所以，SASE 快速擴張的地方，就是任何快速成長的地方。這就是為什麼我們提到 FortiSASE 成長了 100%——我對這個機會感到非常興奮，所有第一線團隊和通路合作夥伴也都非常喜歡它。

And also, I do believe probably that's the early strategy we have eventually the service provider will also pick up the SASE just like when we IPO, like 16 years ago, like -- over 30% of business comes from like a carrier service provider. I still believe eventually the telecom service providers, some other like a cloud provider, may also pick up the FortiSASE because it's so easy to deploy and so easy to adopt what customer needs, whether it's a private SASE or kind of Sovereign SASE. And so easy to quickly integrate with other security with other networking function. But the way we track and we do give every quarter is more based on enterprise, which we have kind of a direct registration and we can more easily track. But I do believe there's a much bigger base.

而且，我相信這可能是我們早期的策略，最終服務提供者也會像我們 16 年前上市時那樣採用 SASE，當時超過 30% 的業務來自營運商服務提供者。我仍然相信，最終電信服務供應商，以及其他一些像雲端供應商一樣的公司，也可能會採用 FortiSASE，因為它部署起來非常容易，而且很容易根據客戶的需求進行調整，無論是私人 SASE 還是主權 SASE。而且很容易與其他安全功能和其他網路功能快速整合。但是，我們追蹤和每季捐贈的方式更多是基於企業，我們有直接的註冊方式，可以更容易地進行追蹤。但我相信它擁有更大的用戶群。

go through service provider, goes through channel partner, especially through other SMB.

透過服務提供者，透過通路合作夥伴，特別是透過其他中小企業。

Any way to see what percentage of your SD-WAN installed base is remaining where you might convert it to SASE? Like how much of an opportunity that is?

有沒有辦法查看您的 SD-WAN 已安裝用戶中還有多少百分比可以轉換為 SASE？這究竟是一個多大的機會？

A few the slides I showed in the presentation, I believe is -- that's a good way to represent. But on the other side, we're also keeping gaining market share in firewall keeping gaining market share in SD-WAN. So I think with our installation base, you can see Slide 10 -- so now we believe within 2 years, now 15% of the enterprise starting SASE. Yes, but also we're starting to see more and more kind of a new SASE, which is not a firewall or 1 customer before and also replacing some other SASE players because whether their solution to complicate it too costly. You can see we have a huge cost advantage.

我認為，我在簡報中展示的一些幻燈片——這是一種很好的表達方式。但另一方面，我們在防火牆和 SD-WAN 領域的市佔率也在不斷成長。所以我認為，根據我們的安裝基礎，您可以看到第 10 張投影片——因此我們現在相信，在 2 年內，15% 的企業將開始使用 SASE。是的，但我們也開始看到越來越多的新型 SASE，它不是防火牆，也不是以前的 1 個客戶，而且它還在取代其他一些 SASE 參與者，因為他們的解決方案過於複雜且成本過高。可以看出，我們擁有龐大的成本優勢。

We also much simple one-box solution compared -- they have to have 2, 3, 4 box. So that's where we see more and more new case replacing some other SASE player.

相比之下，我們的單盒解決方案要簡單得多——他們需要 2、3、4 個盒子。所以我們看到越來越多的新案例取代了其他一些 SASE 參與者。

Gabriela Borges, Goldman Sachs.

加布里埃拉·博爾赫斯，高盛。

Christiane, you're giving us an early look at directionally services growth improving into the back half of '26 because of the strength in product revenue this year. My question is on your visibility into product revenue for next year. Certainly, the year-over-year growth has been good year-to-date. But on comps that are much lower. So my question for you is how do you think about product tractor into next year?

克里斯蒂安娜，你讓我們提前了解到，由於今年產品收入的強勁增長，2026 年下半年服務業的成長方向將會改善。我的問題是關於您對明年產品收入的預測。當然，今年迄今的同比增長情況良好。但同類產品價格低很多。所以我的問題是，您如何看待明年拖拉機產品市場的發展？

Are there any ideas product drivers either tied to the COVID cycle or to what you're seeing across your pipeline, so you can give us some color on that we should be aware of as we think about constructor product growth next year?

是否有任何與 COVID 週期相關的產品驅動因素，或者與您在整個產品線中看到的情況有關，以便我們在考慮明年的構造器產品增長時能夠了解一些我們應該注意的因素？

Yes. So we are confident about continued product growth, not only next year, right? So I think cancer, 10% to 15% is what he believes is a good growth rate because there are multiple growth drivers. There is continued upgrade and refresh activity that is in our installed base, there are additional use cases that we see. And then we also are growing with new customers in OT and other areas.

是的。所以我們對產品持續成長充滿信心，不只是明年，對嗎？所以我認為癌症的成長率在 10% 到 15% 之間是他認為比較合理的，因為有多種成長驅動因素。我們已安裝的設備群中不斷出現升級和更新活動，我們也看到了其他一些使用場景。此外，我們在OT和其他領域也擁有越來越多的新客戶。

So from our perspective, we are super confident about continued growth of product as well as attached services and then our SecOps portfolio, which is predominantly nonattached services.

因此，從我們的角度來看，我們對產品及其附屬服務的持續成長以及我們的安全營運產品組合（主要為非附屬服務）都充滿信心。

Like I mentioned a few of the growth drivers more whether there's a new function or the new hardware -- so in March next year, we are going to launch the FortiOS 8.0, which is in the beta process. That's where we have early March, we'll host in last Vegas to accelerate welcome to attend like before. That's the new function will drive the growth. Also, like I mentioned in your conference, so we have a new ASIC NPA will also come out next year, probably like a few times faster, more function, almost the same cost -- that's also drive additional -- especially the data center firewall growth. All this is our growth driver, plus we see the SASE customer quite excited our solution compared to other competitors.

正如我之前提到的，一些成長驅動因素更體現在新功能或新硬體上——因此，明年三月，我們將推出 FortiOS 8.0，目前它處於測試階段。這是我們三月初的安排，我們將在拉斯維加斯舉辦活動，以加快歡迎大家像以前一樣參加。這項新功能將推動成長。另外，就像我在你們的會議上提到的那樣，我們明年還將推出一款新的 ASIC NPA，速度可能會快幾倍，功能更多，成本幾乎相同——這也將推動——特別是資料中心防火牆的成長。所有這些都是我們的成長動力，此外，我們看到 SASE 客戶對我們的解決方案與其他競爭對手相比的解決方案感到非常興奮。

And OT is other growth, we see pretty strong. We are probably the only leader in the market, which we invest over 10 years. I think it's all this, I believe we're keeping driving the product revenue growth to double digit.

OT 也是另一個成長點，我們看到它發展勢頭非常強勁。我們可能是市場上唯一持續投資超過 10 年的領導者。我認為正是這些因素促成了我們產品收入持續成長，並維持兩位數的成長率。

Junaid Siddiqui, Truist Securities.

Junaid Siddiqui，Truist Securities。

I just wanted to drill a bit on OT security that seems to be a continued driver of growth for you. And if I'm not mistaken, I think growth accelerated from last quarter. Could you just talk about some of the factors that are driving that? And how are you differentiated versus some of the competitors out there?

我只是想稍微深入探討一下 OT 安全，這似乎是你們持續成長的驅動力。如果我沒記錯的話，成長速度比上一季加快了。您能否談談造成這種情況的一些因素？你們與一些競爭對手相比有何不同之處？

The OT security really is trying to secure a lot of device especially whether like health care, the utility manufacturer and all this is -- I keep saying probably in the next few years, 10x more device will connect online, including a lot of home appliance compared to people secure people and also most time to secure this -- this device, the only way to probably go through network security because this device has all different kind of operation system, limited computing power difficult to install security software on it, network security probably the way to do that. So that's we see huge potential, but also the difficult really sometimes they run a different protocol may not be standard as like your laptop or phone kind of OS protocol. On the other side, it needs a different kind of physical platform, sometimes recognize, sometime kind of fit in like a different environment. So that's where we invest long term, more than 10 years in this area. And if you look at the Wesley report in the last 3 years, we are the only leader.

OT 安全確實致力於保護大量設備，尤其是在醫療保健、公用事業製造商等領域——我一直說，未來幾年，連網設備的數量可能會增加 10 倍，其中包括許多家用電器，而人們需要保護這些設備。而且，大多數情況下，保護這些設備的唯一方法可能是透過網路安全，因為這些設備具有各種不同的作業系統、有限的運算能力，難以在其上安裝安全軟體，因此網路安全可能是實現這一目標的唯一途徑。所以我們看到了巨大的潛力，但同時也看到了困難，因為有時它們運行的協議可能與筆記型電腦或手機作業系統協議等標準協議不同。另一方面，它需要一種不同的實體平台，有時需要識別，有時需要像適應不同的環境一樣適應。所以，這就是我們進行長期投資的地方，在這個領域投資超過10年。如果你看衛斯理教會過去三年的報告，你會發現我們是唯一領先的教會。

That I don't believe it's a huge potential. We have a lot of different cases, different trials from like how to secure infrastructure to some kind of robot or connect card, there's all kind of solutions there. Each kind of unique, but I do believe each can be a huge potential market. And we don't see much other players get in this space. I do believe it's a huge growth driver for us.

我不認為它有很大的潛力。我們有很多不同的案例，不同的試驗，從如何保護基礎設施到某種機器人或連接卡，各種各樣的解決方案都有。每一種都獨一無二，但我相信每一種都蘊藏著巨大的市場潛力。我們並沒有看到其他玩家在這個領域取得太多進展。我相信這會是我們實現巨大成長的驅動力。

Patrick Colville, Scotiabank.

派崔克‧科爾維爾，加拿大豐業銀行。

Terrific. Ken and Christiane, I guess the question I'm getting in my Inbox is about these refresh cycle. So can you just one more time just clarify for us why the 2026 end-of-service cohort was not a contributor for this quarter? And then I just want to talk about the next super cycle, it's 2021 and 2022, Fortinet had just incredible years. And in Christiane's kind of comments a couple of questions ago, Christiane, I didn't mention the super cycle refresh as being a driver for 2026 and 2027.

了不起。Ken 和 Christiane，我收到的郵件裡的問題似乎都與刷新週期有關。那麼，您能否再次向我們解釋一下，為什麼 2026 年退役人員沒有對本季做出貢獻？然後我想談談下一個超級週期，也就是 2021 年和 2022 年，Fortinet 在那兩年取得了令人難以置信的成績。克里斯蒂安娜，在她之前幾個問題的評論中，我並沒有提到超級週期更新是 2026 年和 2027 年的驅動因素。

So I guess kind of why that absence?

所以我想知道，他缺席的原因是什麼？

I wouldn't say absent. So we are -- we said we are confident with our growth of products into the next years. The upgrade activity, as Ken said, is a portion of our growth drivers, but it has different reasons. So of course, as we come out with new features and functionality and another version of the U.S., there are benefits for customers who've purchased a couple of years ago to upgrade their devices. And so as they need more security, more speed that will naturally happen.

我不會說缺席。所以，我們——我們說過，我們對未來幾年產品的成長充滿信心。正如肯所說，升級活動是我們成長動力的一部分，但原因有所不同。所以，隨著我們推出新的功能和功能以及美國的另一個版本，幾年前購買設備的客戶升級設備當然是有好處的。因此，隨著他們對安全性和速度的需求增加，這種情況自然會發生。

It's a growth driver, but there are multiple growth drivers that contribute to the overall product growth.

它是成長驅動因素之一，但有多種成長驅動因素共同促成了產品的整體成長。

Yes. That's where every early kind of will talk about the technology, talk about all this new product, I feel that is the growth driver, that's making FortiSASE in the last 25 years, gaining market share. A few like customer buying or even refresh the product is more because you have a more better function than before and faster and lower cost, that's probably will be the driver. I just certainly come up using whether you want to buy a car now is more exciting by the new car, what's the function feature they offer the performance instead of card total out of service and we like, I don't know, 10, 20 years.

是的。在那裡，每個早期的從業者都會談論這項技術，談論所有這些新產品，我覺得這就是成長的驅動力，也是 FortiSASE 在過去 25 年裡獲得市場份額的原因。少數顧客購買甚至更新產品，更多是因為產品功能比以前更好、更快、成本更低，這可能是主要驅動因素。我當然會想到，現在買車是否比買新車更令人興奮，新車的功能特性是什麼，性能如何，而不是車輛總壽命，我們喜歡，我不知道，10年，20年。

Yes, if you -- and also sometimes confused about the end of service with the normal refresh, the end of service also is a small part of a refresh. I don't know of the percentage because I don't feel it's important to count that. But I do believe customers kind of upgrade the box is more driven by the new function -- the new basket supporting and also the additional performance and also the new kind of use case, like in the OT, in the data center security and also kind of all this AI driven, whether within the data center within the AI use case or some kind of OT plant environment.

是的，如果您—有時也會將服務結束與正常刷新混淆，服務結束也是刷新的一小部分。我不知道具體百分比，因為我覺得計算這個不重要。但我相信，客戶升級設備更多是受新功能驅動的——新的籃框支援、額外的效能以及新的用例，例如在 OT、資料中心安全性以及所有這些 AI 驅動的用例中，無論是在資料中心的 AI 用例中，還是在某種 OT 工廠環境中。

And your point is a good one that the normal refresh that Ken is talking about, which can be 4 or so years lines up well with the new technology that we're coming out with early next year with the new network processor and the new operating system. So the fact we didn't stress that does not mean that we don't think that's an opportunity. It was kind of bundled in with Ken's earlier comments about the new technology that's coming out, which really has driven the growth for Fortinet for 25 years is that steady technology development that is impactful and people want to refresh their devices because the technology is so much better.

你的觀點很好，肯所說的正常更新周期（大約每 4 年一次）與我們明年年初即將推出的新技術（包括新的網路處理器和新的作業系統）非常吻合。所以，我們沒有強調這一點，並不代表我們認為那不是一個機會。這與 Ken 之前關於即將推出的新技術的評論有點關聯，而真正推動 Fortinet 在過去 25 年裡發展的，正是這種穩步發展且影響深遠的技術，人們想要更新他們的設備，因為新技術已經好得多。

Yes. That's one a few the key differentiation built for in the last 25 years really the engineer resource, the innovation capability we have, I feel better than other competitors. So that's where we can keep come up the new function and also keep follow the market change also internally develop of this kind of function. You can look at whether the Negen firewall, whether the SD-WAN, whether the SASE and also most secure up AI-driven all this kind of SecureOPe solution there. Most of it will come from internal R&D innovation compared to most competitors have to come to our position.

是的。這是我們在過去 25 年打造的關鍵差異化優勢之一，我們擁有的工程師資源和創新能力，我覺得自己比其他競爭對手更好。所以，我們可以不斷推出新功能，同時也能跟上市場變化，並在內部開發這類功能。您可以查看 Negen 防火牆、SD-WAN、SASE 以及最安全的 AI 驅動的所有這些 SecureOPe 解決方案。大部分成長將來自內部研發創新，而大多數競爭對手則需要透過努力才能達到我們目前的地位。

So I feel it's important to recognize all this internal R&D innovation capability, that drive the company with all the new growth and new functions to keep customer need, which instead of depend on acquisition, which has a more difficult time to integrate after a few years of this kind of sense. . So that's a few -- we have a huge advantage and also leverage a lot of long-term investment, whether from ASIC chip, from the OS, from the infrastructure, we do believe the company will keep in growing gaining market share long term. That's why I'm pretty confident like what we're keeping gaining share in all these 3 pillars show on the Slide 4.

所以我覺得，重視公司內部的研發創新能力非常重要，正是這種能力推動公司不斷成長，推出新的功能，以滿足客戶需求，而不是依賴收購。收購在幾年後整合起來會更加困難。。所以，以上幾點——我們擁有巨大的優勢，並且利用了大量的長期投資，無論是來自ASIC晶片、作業系統還是基礎設施，我們相信公司將繼續成長，並在長期內獲得市場份額。這就是為什麼我對我們在投影片 4 所示的這三大支柱領域不斷擴大市場份額感到非常有信心的原因。

Meta Marshall, Morgan Stanley.

Meta Marshall，摩根士丹利。

I just wanted to ask a question just about the Q4 gross margins. Just wanted to see if there were any headwinds from any tariffs or componentry cost increases that were embedded in that guide?

我只想問一下關於第四季毛利率的問題。我只是想了解一下，該指南中是否包含了任何關稅或零件成本上漲方面的不利因素？

No. It's really the mix between hardware and service revenue. And then we had some benefits in Q3 from some reserve releases, so that we don't expect in Q4. But it's pretty normalized from a product gross margin versus service gross margin. It's more of a mix.

不。實際上，這是硬體收入和服務收入的綜合體現。然後，我們在第三季從一些儲備金的釋放中獲得了一些好處，因此我們預計第四季不會再有這種情況。但從產品毛利率與服務毛利率的角度來看，這種情況已經相當正常化了。更像是混合體。

Rob Owens, Piper Sandler.

羅布歐文斯，派珀桑德勒。

I was hoping you could parse for us the different geos and especially North America, which seemed to lag from a growth perspective. Was there something unique there to call out during the third quarter in terms of share losses or anything else that might have been weak within this theater?

我希望您能幫我們分析不同地區的數據，特別是北美地區，因為從成長的角度來看，北美地區似乎比較落後。第三季在股價下跌或其他方面，該劇院是否有任何值得特別指出的疲軟之處？

No. North America or U.S. was very strong in Q2. And so -- it's -- some quarters where big deals come in and then other quarters not so much. So they performed is no share loss.

不。北美或美國在第二季表現非常強勁。所以——有些季度會有大筆交易，而有些季度則不會。所以他們的表現沒有造成任何損失。

Saket Kalia, Barclays.

薩克特·卡利亞，巴克萊銀行。

Christiane, maybe this is for you. There's been a lot of focus on the call on services revenue, understandably so. But I'm curious a little bit on services billings in the quarter just given the strong product result. So can you just talk about whether there was any sort of change in attach rate on appliances? Whether we should think about changing attach rates as software becomes a bigger part of product?

克里斯蒂安娜，或許這是給你的。可以理解，大家對服務收入的關注度很高。但考慮到產品業績強勁，我對本季的服務帳單狀況有點好奇。那麼，您能否談談家用電器附加率是否有任何變化？隨著軟體在產品中所佔比例越來越大，我們是否應該考慮調整附加率？

Or maybe talk about another item, which is the unattached portion of services billings. I'm just curious, given the sequential decline in services billings, combined with a really strong product result, what were some of the moving parts that we should consider?

或可以談談另一項內容，即服務帳單中未附加服務的部分。我很好奇，鑑於服務帳單的連續下降，以及產品業績的強勁表現，我們應該考慮哪些因素？

So if you look at Q2, Q2 actually had significant enterprise agreements that we signed. And so we had high services billings. And in Q3, we -- some of the products were sold into these enterprise agreements, and we also had, as I mentioned earlier, some customers buying hardware ahead of the deployment next year. And so we expect more service billings for this specific hardware purchases in 2026. So it's really more -- I think you need to look at it more on a longer-term basis and not just quarter-to-quarter.

所以，如果你看第二季度，你會發現第二季度我們實際上簽署了很多重要的企業協議。因此，我們的服務帳單金額很高。在第三季度，我們的一些產品透過企業協議銷售出去，正如我之前提到的，還有一些客戶在明年部署之前購買了硬體。因此，我們預計 2026 年將有更多針對此特定硬體採購的服務帳單。所以，我認為你需要從更長遠的角度來看待這個問題，而不僅僅是按季度來看。

Okay. Got it. So it sounds like there's a timing element there with services builds and product.

好的。知道了。所以聽起來服務和產品在時間安排上有一定因素。

Correct.

正確的。

Shrenik Kothari, Baird.

Shrenik Kothari，Baird。

Ken, Christiane, you highlighted the launch of your secure AI data center offering. It seems like a pretty foundational growth pillar. So just stepping back a bit. How large do you think is the addressable opportunity here? And who are you targeting?

Ken、Christiane，你們重點介紹了你們推出的安全人工智慧資料中心產品。這似乎是一個非常基礎的成長支柱。所以，我們先退後一步。你認為這裡的潛在市場有多大？你們的目標客戶是誰？

Are these the AI native players, cloud providers, hyperscalers or just enterprise data center using the refresh cycles? And I had a quick follow-up.

這些是人工智慧原生廠商、雲端服務供應商、超大規模資料中心，還是僅使用刷新週期的企業資料中心？我隨後又快速地跟進了一件事。

I think because we are the only like a network security vendor with the own ASIC, which performs a lot of AID centers in the high-speed environment. So we're starting to see some opportunity there secured within the big data center, especially IT center. And also, there's a lot of talk about how AI and whether the agentic or some other part may be maybe need some additional screening of security. So that's the product we are launching and I think is still in early stage. The security -- network security unit after the infrastructure being built, but we also engage pretty early.

我認為是因為我們是唯一擁有自主ASIC的網路安全廠商，可以在高速環境下執行大量的AID中心任務。因此，我們開始看到大數據中心，特別是IT中心，出現了一些機會。此外，還有很多人在討論人工智慧以及其智慧體或其他部分是否可能需要額外的安全審查。這就是我們即將推出的產品，我認為它目前還處於早期階段。安全－網路安全部門在基礎設施建成後才會介入，但我們也會很早就介入。

And whether with AI player or with some data center service provider player because since we have the highest performed network security solution there, so we kind of started testing with their infrastructure, how to secure AI, especially data in the agent level. So that's still in the early stage. It's difficult to estimate, but I do believe eventually can be a huge market with a kind of explosive growth.

無論是與 AI 玩家還是與資料中心服務供應商玩家合作，因為我們擁有效能最高的網路安全解決方案，所以我們開始利用他們的基礎設施測試如何保護 AI，特別是代理層級的資料。所以目前還處於早期階段。雖然很難估計，但我相信最終它會成為一個巨大的市場，並呈現爆發式成長。

Got it. So were helpful. And just a follow-up for Christiane. I know it's still early days, but as a revenue driver, given the inflection we are seeing in AI, I mean, how should we think about the monetization here next year? Is it mostly be still skewed towards the ad product and hardware is kind of saying the ASICs?

知道了。所以他們幫了我很大的忙。還有一點要跟進，克里斯蒂安娜。我知道現在還處於早期階段，但作為收入驅動因素，考慮到我們在人工智慧領域看到的轉折點，我的意思是，我們明年應該如何考慮這裡的獲利模式？是否仍主要偏向廣告產品，而硬體方面則傾向於ASIC晶片？

Or should we also think about the services layering on top for AIops and unified SecOps stuff?

或者我們也應該考慮在頂層建立 AIOps 和統一安全營運等服務層嗎？

So no, definitely, the services piece as well. I would say with regards to AI, the use cases are really broad-based. If we secure an AI data center, it's going to be more hardware-centric. If we secure AI applications, it's going to be more software-centric. And then, of course, we have our own AI-enabled solutions that benefit from AI and help the customers automate network security or SecOps.

所以，不，絕對也包含服務部分。我認為，就人工智慧而言，其應用場景非常廣泛。如果我們要建立一個人工智慧資料中心，那麼它將更加以硬體為中心。如果我們要保障人工智慧應用的安全，將會更加以軟體為中心。當然，我們也有自己的人工智慧解決方案，這些方案受益於人工智慧，可以幫助客戶實現網路安全或安全營運的自動化。

So AI has a broad implication for us because it opens up different use cases and different benefits for the customers.

因此，人工智慧對我們有著廣泛的影響，因為它開啟了不同的應用場景，並為客戶帶來了不同的好處。

Yes, that's where the AI-driven operation is the fast-growing in the last few quarters. And so over 20 solution, probably close to half of all this kind of a secure operating solution and with all this AI kind system operation, we can see is a pretty fast growing. And AI believe is the biggest driver to follow this growth.

是的，人工智慧驅動的營運在過去幾季發展迅速。因此，超過 20 個解決方案，可能接近所有這類安全操作解決方案的一半，以及所有這些人工智慧系統操作，我們可以看到它正在快速成長。人工智慧被認為是推動這一成長的最大動力。

Ittai Kidron, Oppenheimer & Co.

伊泰‧凱德倫 (Ittai Kidron)，奧本海默公司

Christiane, just I want to make sure I understand the linearity of your product billings going forward. You talked about services accelerating in the second half of next year. What should be in...

克里斯蒂安娜，我只是想確認一下我是否理解你們未來的產品計費方式。您提到服務業將在明年下半年加速發展。應該包含哪些內容…

That's the revenue, right? So I turned it up, but yes, that was -- comment.

這就是收入，對吧？所以我把音量調大了，但是，是的，那是——評論。

Then if I think about the product revenue, should have perhaps an infras pattern just given at the end of life, you're meaningfully into it right now and somewhere early mid next year, you're largely complete on that front, and then it becomes a difficult comps. Is it fair to say that the product growth potentially decel the rates in the second half of next year?

那麼，如果我考慮產品收入，或許應該在產品生命週期結束時採用基礎設施模式，你現在已經投入了大量精力，到明年年初或年中，你在這方面基本上就完成了，然後就很難進行比較了。可以這樣說嗎？產品成長可能在明年下半年減緩成長率？

We are confident that our product revenue growth is -- it's solid for next year as well, based on all the growth drivers that we've just provided, we haven't guided for next year yet. So from that perspective, I don't want to get ahead, but we are confident with our growth trajectory for product as well as for services.

我們有信心，基於我們剛才提供的所有成長驅動因素，明年我們的產品收入成長也將保持穩健，但我們尚未對明年的成長做出預測。所以從這個角度來看，我不想操之過急，但我們對產品和服務的發展軌跡充滿信心。

Okay. And maybe Ken -- Yes, go ahead, Ken.

好的。或許肯——好的，肯，繼續。

So I kind of go back to the Slide 4. You can see each of these pillars is a big market, and it's a still were fragmented market and any player kind of more than 10%, 20% market share, still a huge growth potential to keeping gaining market share. That's what we do in each pillar a unique advantage, and we're keeping gaining market share. That will continue to drive the product revenue growth. It's probably not like when we dominant market, then more limit how grows, but this is more like a greenfield for all these 3 pillars because they're so fragmented and believe the strong player we're keeping gaining share and then that's probably drive the next 5- to 10-year product growth.

所以我又回到了投影片 4。你可以看到，這些支柱中的每一個都是一個巨大的市場，而且市場仍然非常分散，任何市場份額超過 10%、20% 的參與者仍然有巨大的成長潛力來繼續獲得市場份額。這就是我們在每個支柱領域所擁有的獨特優勢，我們也不斷擴大市場佔有率。這將繼續推動產品收入成長。這可能不像我們佔據市場主導地位後會限製成長，而更像是這三大支柱領域的一片綠地，因為它們非常分散，而且我們相信強大的參與者會不斷擴大市場份額，這可能會推動未來 5 到 10 年的產品成長。

Very good. And then maybe if you could just clarify on the SASE billings. What percent of those are still just stand-alone SD-WAN versus not?

非常好。然後，您能否再澄清一下 SASE 帳單的相關事宜？其中有多少比例還是獨立的 SD-WAN，又有多少比例不是？

We have some but some -- if you look at SD-WAN as a part of function. I think we have a good tracking but sometimes still difficult to be too accurate because sometimes customers can enable SD-WAN and then keeping using it without let us know. So that's where -- but we do believe we are the number 1 SD-WAN player in the market. And that's also one of the major reasons they select -- customer select SASE because they like the SD-WAN and very quickly can migrate to SASE. But SD-WAN market, is still kind of a growth slow down a little bit, but we do keep gaining market share.

我們有一些，但有些——如果你把 SD-WAN 看作是功能的一部分。我認為我們的追蹤效果不錯，但有時仍然很難做到非常精確，因為有時客戶可以啟用 SD-WAN，然後繼續使用它而不通知我們。所以，這就是原因——但我們確實相信我們是市場上排名第一的 SD-WAN 廠商。這也是他們選擇 SASE 的主要原因之一——客戶選擇 SASE 是因為他們喜歡 SD-WAN，並且可以非常快速地遷移到 SASE。但是，SD-WAN市場的成長速度仍然略有放緩，但我們仍在不斷擴大市場份額。

You can look at other HTN players all come from acquisition, all the top 5, top 10 for acquisition, which is -- we see this slow down a lot of whether to develop new function or some have a separate box. So that's where we're keeping gaining SD-WAN market share, but our SD-WAN is a part of the FortiOS. If you by far was your -- in there.

你可以看看其他 HTN 玩家，他們都是收購來的，排名前 5、前 10 的都是收購來的，這——我們看到這大大減緩了開發新功能的速度，或者有些人有單獨的盒子。所以這就是我們不斷擴大 SD-WAN 市場份額的地方，但我們的 SD-WAN 是 FortiOS 的一部分。如果你當時是你的——就在那裡。

And referring to the acquisitions, that's creating some disruption in the SD-WAN market that's sort of opening up opportunity for us where the disruption from the acquisition plus the customer may have a separate firewall and separate SD-WAN solution, and they come and talk to us about a combined solution that is just a no-brainer from a cost-effectiveness standpoint. So we've had multiple conversations around that, which we're already in the far upper right quadrant of the Gartner Magic water for SD-WAN. But it feels like with that leadership position and the disruption from these acquisitions and just the compelling value proposition, it's a good opportunity for us.

至於收購，這給 SD-WAN 市場帶來了一些混亂，也為我們創造了機會。收購帶來的混亂加上客戶可能擁有獨立的防火牆和獨立的 SD-WAN 解決方案，他們來和我們洽談一個從成本效益角度來看顯而易見的組合解決方案。所以我們圍繞這一點進行了多次討論，目前我們已經處於 Gartner SD-WAN 魔力水象限的右上象限。但感覺憑藉目前的領導地位、這些收購帶來的顛覆性影響以及極具吸引力的價值主張，這對我們來說是一個很好的機會。

Brad Zelnick, Deutsche Bank.

布拉德‧澤爾尼克，德意志銀行。

I'm hoping you can help reconcile your comments about growing above market in each of your pillars with 13% ARR growth in SASE this quarter. Is there something specific one-off we should consider in Q3? And as well, it would be great if you can comment on pricing trends and competition that you're seeing in SASE more broadly.

我希望您能解釋一下，您之前提到的每個業務支柱都實現了高於市場平均水平的成長，而本季度 SASE 的 ARR 成長率卻達到了 13%。第三季是否有我們應該考慮的特定一次性事項？另外，如果您能就 SASE 領域更廣泛的價格趨勢和競爭發表一些評論，那就太好了。

Brad, the unified SASE ARR, as we just said, includes also the SD-WAN. And so I think we are pleased that actually quarter-over-quarter, we had pretty good ARR growth. You know that it was flat because there is also an element of the component in that ARR. And from that perspective, we now see positive momentum, yes.

Brad，正如我們剛才所說，統一的 SASE ARR 也包括 SD-WAN。因此，我認為我們很高興看到，與上一季相比，我們的年度經常性收入成長相當不錯。你知道它是平的，因為 ARR 中也包含組件的元素。從這個角度來看，我們現在確實看到了正面的動力。

Okay. Great. And any comments on -- especially at the branch, when the customer wants a SASE solution? How often is that going out to competitive bid and any changes in win rates and pricing trends there? Any color would be great.

好的。偉大的。特別是分行客戶需要SASE解決方案的情況，您有什麼看法？他們多久會進行一次公開招標？中標率和價格趨勢有沒有什麼變化？任何顏色都可以。

So I would say competitive bids really depend a little bit on the customer size and customer type. And in government, you have more competitive bids than maybe in smaller enterprise customers, but large enterprise customers will always go out for a competitive solution. I think the key is that we now have a seat at the table when we talk to our customers and say how easy it is to implement SASE and just extend your policies from the firewall to the SASE platform. And that makes the incremental cost for our customers significantly lower than if they deploy a third-party solution. And that's what we also hear from customers that not having to maintain multiple policies is a huge operational benefit.

所以我覺得，有競爭力的投標結果很大程度取決於客戶的規模和類型。在政府部門，投標競爭可能比小型企業客戶更激烈，但大型企業客戶總是會尋求具有競爭力的解決方案。我認為關鍵在於，現在我們在與客戶交談時有了發言權，我們可以告訴他們實施 SASE 是多麼容易，只需將策略從防火牆擴展到 SASE 平台即可。這樣一來，與客戶部署第三方解決方案相比，我們客戶的增量成本就會顯著降低。我們也從客戶那裡了解到，無需維護多個保單是一項巨大的營運優勢。

I think there are some SASE players talk about maybe branch SASE may replace a firewall or some other which is -- I don't see that's the case. Maybe they're different players, they have to use multiple box for brands like one for networking device, one for SD-WAN and then the other one try to load SASE there. But for us, it's a single box solution with networking with SD-WAN, without a SASE there, you can see the example, Christiane gave this 10,000 retail location. They just use the FortiGate to deploy a SASE SD-WAN and network security solution and also even to the networking -- access as a controller. So that's a huge cost saving and more easy to manage which compared to competitor have to use in 3, 4 different box network in force SD-WAN for some other SASE, which we see is a single OS.

我認為有些 SASE 玩家在討論分支 SASE 可能會取代防火牆或其他一些東西，但我認為情況並非如此。也許他們是不同的玩家，他們需要使用多個不同品牌的盒子，例如一個用於網路設備，一個用於 SD-WAN，然後另一個嘗試在那裡加載 SASE。但對我們來說，這是一個帶有 SD-WAN 網路功能的單盒解決方案，沒有 SASE，你可以看看 Christiane 舉的這個 10,000 個零售點的例子。他們使用 FortiGate 來部署 SASE SD-WAN 和網路安全解決方案，甚至將其用作網路存取控制器。因此，與競爭對手相比，這可以節省大量成本，並且更容易管理，因為競爭對手必須在 3、4 個不同的盒子網路中使用 SD-WAN 來實現某些其他 SASE，而我們看到它只有一個作業系統。

And also we also kind of dominant in the SMB space. So we feel a lot of customers, they can very quickly, easily adopt SASE, not just SMB, but also work from home. We are also starting to see some new cases to support in work from home using kind of home security SASE there.

而且我們在中小企業領域也佔有主導地位。因此我們覺得很多客戶都能非常快速、輕鬆地採用 SASE，不僅是中小企業，也包括在家工作的客戶。我們也開始看到一些新的案例，需要使用某種家庭安全 SASE 來支持在家工作。

Gray Powell, BTIG.

Gray Powell，BTIG。

Okay. Great. I just want to make sure, can you hear me okay?

好的。偉大的。我只是想確認一下，你能聽清楚我說話嗎？

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay. Great. I hopefully, I can ask this question correctly. I Just want to make sure I understood some of the commentary during the Q&A. All right.

好的。偉大的。我希望我能正確地提出這個問題。我只是想確認我是否理解了問答環節中的一些評論。好的。

So -- you called out double-digit or an expectation for 10% to 15% growth in product revenue for 2026 during the Q&A, and that was in response to a question. I'm going to guess there's a reason that, that statement was not in the prepared remarks. So I guess, here's my question. Is the 10% to 15%, is that what you really think you're going to do in 2026 as the year plays out. And I'm asking that because historically, you've given investors a discount when you guide for a new year.

所以——你在問答環節中提到，預計 2026 年產品收入將實現兩位數成長，或達到 10% 到 15%，而這是為了回答一個問題。我猜想，那句話沒有出現在準備好的發言稿中是有原因的。所以，我的問題是這樣的。10% 到 15% 是指你認為到 2026 年這一年你真正會做到的程度嗎？我問這個是因為，以往您在發布新一年業績指引時都會給投資人一些折扣。

So I'm not asking for guidance, but I'm just asking like those 2 things correctly.

所以我不是尋求指導，我只是想問這兩件事。

Let me question a little bit. What I mentioned is really in the last few conference, there's always a question about what's the hardware, what's the product revenue growth. My comments always the normal growth rate should be 10% to 15%, not specifically for 2026. So that, I believe, not just 2026 also maybe go further in the next 5 to 10 years, the normal product hardware growth will be 10% to 15% in a normal case. That's also tracking quite well.

我想問幾個問題。我剛才提到的是，在最近幾屆會議上，總是會有人問到硬體方面的問題，以及產品收入成長。我的評論始終是，正常的成長率應該在 10% 到 15% 之間，而不是特別指涉 2026 年。因此，我認為，不僅是 2026 年，而且在未來 5 到 10 年內，正常情況下產品硬體的成長率將達到 10% 到 15%。這方面進展也相當順利。

with the last 16 years. So if you look at how it grows, right? So that's what we do believe we have advantage in the hardware with ASIC. We have a better OS, more integrated and another competitor. And that's where we have some big customer base.

過去16年。所以，如果你觀察它的生長方式，對吧？所以，我們認為我們在ASIC硬體方面具有優勢。我們擁有更好的作業系統，整合度更高，而且還有另一個競爭對手。我們在那裡擁有相當大的客戶群。

And that can do believe the product and also the hardware keeping growth, the 10% to 15%, that will be the normal growth rate for us. We also we're keeping gaining market share. Maybe the market can grow a little bit slower than that. That's why you look at the combined market growth in the Slide 4. And secure networking may be a little bit slower, but there's also Unified SASE and SecOps, but that's where the combined market growth rate does relate to some of the product, maybe some of the software, but I do believe the normal case, probably in the next 10 -- 5 to 10 years will be between 10% to 15% growth.

我們相信產品和硬體將保持成長，10% 到 15% 的成長率將是我們正常的成長率。我們也在不斷擴大市場份額。或許市場成長速度可以比這稍慢一些。所以，你需要查看投影片 4 的市場綜合成長情況。安全網路的發展速度可能會稍慢一些，但還有統一的 SASE 和 SecOps，但這就是綜合市場成長率與某些產品（可能是某些軟體）相關的地方，但我相信，正常情況下，未來 5 到 10 年的成長率可能會在 10% 到 15% 之間。

Thank you. That was our final question. I will now hand it back over to Anthony Luscri for closing remarks.

謝謝。這是我們最後一個問題。現在我將把發言權交還給安東尼·盧斯克里，請他作總結發言。

Thank you. I'd like to thank everyone for joining today's call. We will be attending investor conferences hosted by Wells Fargo, UBS, NASDAQ and Barclays during the fourth quarter. The fireside chat web links webcast links will be posted on the Events and Presentations section of our Investor Relations website. If you have any follow-up questions, please feel free to contact me, and have a great day.

謝謝。感謝各位參加今天的電話會議。我們將於第四季參加由富國銀行、瑞銀集團、納斯達克和巴克萊銀行主辦的投資者會議。爐邊談話網絡直播連結將發佈在我們投資者關係網站的「活動與演示」部分。如果您有任何後續問題，請隨時與我聯繫，並祝您今天過得愉快。