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Operator
Operator
Thank you for standing by, and welcome to FICO's fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)
感謝您的耐心等待,歡迎參加 FICO 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。 (操作員說明)
I would now like to hand the call over to Dave Singleton. Please go ahead.
我現在想將電話轉交給戴夫辛格頓。請繼續。
Dave Singleton - Vice President, Investor Relations
Dave Singleton - Vice President, Investor Relations
Good afternoon, and thank you for attending FICO's fourth-quarter earnings call. I'm Dave Singleton, Vice President of Investor Relations, and I'm joined today by our CEO, Will Lansing; and our CFO, Steve Weber.
下午好,感謝您參加 FICO 第四季財報電話會議。我是投資者關係副總裁戴夫辛格頓 (Dave Singleton),今天我們的執行長威爾蘭辛 (Will Lansing) 也加入了我的行列。和我們的財務長史蒂夫·韋伯。
Today, we issued a press release that describes financial results compared to the prior year. On this call, management will also discuss results in comparison with the prior quarter to facilitate an understanding of the run rate of the business. Certain statements made in this presentation are forward looking under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Those statements involve many risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. Information concerning these risks and uncertainties is contained in the company's filings with the SEC, particularly in the risk factors and forward-looking statements portion of such filings. Copies are available from the SEC, from the FICO website or from our Investor Relations team.
今天,我們發布了一份新聞稿,描述了與前一年相比的財務表現。在這次電話會議上,管理層還將討論與上一季相比的結果,以幫助了解業務的運作率。根據《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案》,本簡報中的某些陳述具有前瞻性。有關這些風險和不確定性的資訊包含在該公司向 SEC 提交的文件中,特別是此類文件的風險因素和前瞻性陳述部分。副本可從 SEC、FICO 網站或我們的投資者關係團隊取得。
This call will also include statements regarding certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to the company's earnings release and Regulation G schedule issued today for a reconciliation of each of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most appropriate comparable GAAP measure.
此次電話會議還將包括有關某些非公認會計準則財務指標的聲明。請參閱今天發布的公司收益報告和 G 條例時間表,以了解每項非 GAAP 財務指標與最合適的可比較 GAAP 指標的調整表。
This includes an FY25 guidance reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP earnings, which are adjusted for items such as stock-based compensation and excess tax benefit. This reconciliation is part of the earnings release included an Exhibit 99.1 to our 8-K, which we filed with the SEC under Item 2.02 titled Results of Operations and Financials. The earnings release and Regulation G schedule are available on the Investor Relations page of the company's website at fico.com or on the SEC's website at sec.gov, and a replay of this webcast will be available through November 6, 2025.
這包括 2025 財年 GAAP 與非 GAAP 收益的指引調整表,並針對股票薪酬和超額稅收優惠等項目進行了調整。此調節表是收益發布的一部分,包括我們的 8-K 的附件 99.1,我們在標題為「營運結果和財務」的第 2.02 項下向 SEC 提交了該報表。收益發布和 G 條例時間表可在公司網站 fico.com 的投資者關係頁面或 SEC 網站 sec.gov 上獲取,並且該網絡廣播的重播將持續到 2025 年 11 月 6 日。
I will now turn the call over to our CEO, Will Lansing.
我現在將把電話轉給我們的執行長威爾·蘭辛 (Will Lansing)。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Thanks, Dave, and thank you, everyone, for joining us for our fourth-quarter earnings call. In the Investor Relations section of our website, we've posted some financial highlights slides. We'll be referencing those during our presentation. Today, I'll talk about this quarter's results and our guidance for fiscal '25. We had another fantastic year.
謝謝戴夫,謝謝大家參加我們第四季財報的電話會議。在我們網站的投資者關係部分,我們發布了一些財務亮點幻燈片。我們將在演示期間引用這些內容。今天,我將討論本季的業績以及我們對 25 財年的指導。我們又度過了美好的一年。
We exceeded fiscal '24 guidance on all metrics and delivered strong growth in free cash flow. As shown on page 2 of the fourth-quarter financial highlights, we reported fourth quarter revenues of $454 million, up 16% over last year. For the full fiscal year, we delivered $1.718 billion in revenue, up 13% versus the prior year. We reported $136 million in GAAP net income in the quarter, up 34% and GAAP earnings of $5.44 per share, up 36% from the prior year.
我們在所有指標上都超越了 24 財年的指導,並實現了自由現金流的強勁成長。正如第四季財務摘要第 2 頁所示,我們報告第四季營收為 4.54 億美元,比去年成長 16%。整個財年,我們實現了 17.18 億美元的收入,比上年增長 13%。我們報告本季 GAAP 淨利潤為 1.36 億美元,年成長 34%;GAAP 每股收益為 5.44 美元,比去年同期成長 36%。
For the full fiscal year, we delivered $513 million in GAAP net income, equating to $20.45 of earnings per share, up 19% and 21%, respectively. We reported $163 million in non-GAAP net income in the quarter, up 29% and non-GAAP earnings of $6.54 per share, up 30% from the prior year. For the full fiscal year, we delivered $595 million in non-GAAP net income, which equates to $23.74 of earnings per share, up 19% and 20%, respectively.
在整個財年,我們實現了 5.13 億美元的 GAAP 淨利潤,相當於每股收益 20.45 美元,分別成長了 19% 和 21%。我們報告本季非 GAAP 淨利潤為 1.63 億美元,年增 29%,非 GAAP 每股收益為 6.54 美元,較上年增長 30%。在整個財年,我們實現了 5.95 億美元的非 GAAP 淨利潤,相當於每股收益 23.74 美元,分別成長了 19% 和 20%。
As shown on page 10, we delivered record free cash flow of $219 million in our fourth quarter and $607 million over the last four quarters, an increase of 31% year over year. We continue to return capital to our shareholders through buybacks. In the fourth quarter, we repurchased 188,000 shares at an average price of $1,721 per share. For the fiscal year, we've repurchased 606,000 shares at an average price of $1,366 per share.
如第 10 頁所示,我們第四季實現了創紀錄的自由現金流 2.19 億美元,過去四個季度實現了 6.07 億美元,年增 31%。我們繼續透過回購向股東返還資本。第四季度,我們以每股 1,721 美元的平均價格回購了 188,000 股股票。在本財年,我們以每股 1,366 美元的平均價格回購了 606,000 股股票。
In our scores segment, on page 6 of the presentation, our fourth-quarter revenues were $249 million, up 27% versus the prior year. For the full year, our revenues were $920 million, up 19% versus last year. On the B2B side, fourth quarter revenues were up 38% versus the prior year and up 27% for the full year, primarily driven by mortgage originations.
在簡報第 6 頁的樂譜部分,我們第四季的營收為 2.49 億美元,比上年成長 27%。全年營收為 9.2 億美元,比去年成長 19%。在 B2B 方面,第四季營收較上年成長 38%,全年成長 27%,這主要是由抵押貸款發放推動的。
On the B2C side, fourth-quarter revenues were down 1% versus the prior year and down 2% for the full fiscal year, driven by decreased sales on the myfico.com website. Fourth-quarter mortgage originations revenues were up 95% versus the prior year. Mortgage origination revenue accounted for 47% of B2B revenue and 37% of total scores revenue. Auto originations revenues were down 2%, while credit card, personal loan and other origination revenues were down 5% versus the prior year. Today, we've announced that for calendar 2025, FICO's wholesale royalty will be $4.95 per score for mortgage originations.
在 B2C 方面,由於 myfico.com 網站銷售額下降,第四季營收較前一年下降 1%,整個財年營收下降 2%。第四季抵押貸款發放收入較上年增加 95%。抵押貸款發放收入佔 B2B 收入的 47%,佔總收入的 37%。汽車發起收入年減 2%,信用卡、個人貸款和其他發起收入較去年同期下降 5%。今天,我們宣布,從 2025 年開始,FICO 抵押貸款發放的批發特許權使用費將為每分 4.95 美元。
At this new per score royalty, the amount collected by FICO will remain a small percentage, on average, about 15% of the Tri-Merge bundle cost, which typically runs $80 to well over $100. With total average closing costs of $6,000, FICO's share is only about [0.2%]. As such, it will continue to be the lowest of all individual mortgage closing costs. The FICO Score plays a central role in facilitating about $2 trillion in mortgage originations every year as a critical tool for borrowers, lenders, insurers, investors and other important stakeholders.
按照這個新的每分特許權使用費,FICO 收取的金額將保持很小的比例,平均約為 Tri-Merge 捆綁成本的 15%,該成本通常為 80 美元到遠超過 100 美元。平均成交總成本為 6,000 美元,FICO 的份額約為 [0.2%]。因此,它將繼續成為所有個人抵押貸款結清成本中最低的。 FICO 評分作為借款人、貸款人、保險公司、投資者和其他重要利害關係人的重要工具,在每年促成約 2 兆美元抵押貸款發放方面發揮核心作用。
The royalty collected by FICO is entirely fair and reasonable, and the FICO score continues to deliver incredible value as the most trusted and cost-effective tool used to evaluate consumer credit risk and residential mortgage finance. More information on our new royalty pricing can be found on our website at www.fico.com/blogs, and I would encourage you all to get some more detail on the blog.
FICO收取的特許權使用費完全公平合理,並且FICO評分作為用於評估消費者信用風險和住宅抵押貸款融資的最值得信賴和最具成本效益的工具,繼續提供令人難以置信的價值。有關我們新的特許權使用費定價的更多信息,請訪問我們的網站 www.fico.com/blogs,我鼓勵大家在博客上了解更多詳細信息。
We continue to drive strong adoption from FICO Score 10 T for the non-GSE mortgages. This quarter, we signed new lenders, including United Wholesale Mortgages, the largest global mortgage lender. We now have clients with over $244 billion in annualized mortgage originations and about $1.33 trillion in eligible mortgage portfolio servicing that have signed up for FICO Score 10 T. Firms are already using 10 T to make credit decisions, for securitization and for delivery to investors. FICO 10 T for conforming mortgages sold in the GSEs will be rolled out based on the timeline of the FAA's implementation of enterprise credit score requirements.
我們繼續推動非 GSE 抵押貸款大力採用 FICO Score 10 T。本季度,我們簽署了新的貸款機構,包括全球最大的抵押貸款機構 United Wholesale Mortgages。現在,我們的客戶已簽署FICO Score 10 T,年化抵押貸款發放量超過2,440 億美元,合格抵押貸款投資組合服務約1.33 兆美元。以及交付給投資者。針對 GSE 銷售的合格抵押貸款的 FICO 10 T 將根據 FAA 實施企業信用評分要求的時間表推出。
Now we continue to innovate in our scores business. Last week, we announced the upcoming launch of FICO Score mortgage simulator, which enables mortgage professionals to run credit event scenarios by applying simulated changes in an applicant's credit report data to simulate potential changes to the applicant FICO score. This benefits both mortgage lenders and consumers by potentially providing more loan options and more favorable interest rates.
現在我們繼續在樂譜業務上進行創新。上週,我們宣布即將推出 FICO 分數抵押貸款模擬器,該模擬器使抵押貸款專業人士能夠透過應用申請人信用報告數據的模擬變化來運行信用事件場景,以模擬申請人 FICO 分數的潛在變化。這可能會提供更多的貸款選擇和更優惠的利率,從而使抵押貸款機構和消費者受益。
In our software segment, we delivered $205 million in fourth-quarter revenue, up 5% from last year, driven mainly by growth in SaaS software, partially offset by a decline in professional services. We delivered $798 million in fiscal year revenue, up 8% from last year. We continued to drive growth in ARR and NRR through our land and expand strategy with expand driven by increased customer usage.
在我們的軟體部門,我們第四季的營收為 2.05 億美元,比去年成長 5%,這主要是由 SaaS 軟體的成長推動的,但部分被專業服務的下降所抵消。我們的財年營收達到 7.98 億美元,比去年成長 8%。我們繼續透過我們的土地和擴張策略推動 ARR 和 NRR 的成長,並透過客戶使用量增加推動擴張。
As shown on page 7, the total ARR was up 8%, with platform ARR growing 31% and non-platform ARR flat year over year. Total NRR for the quarter, shown on page 8, was 106% with platform NRR at 123% and non-platform at 99%. ACV bookings for the quarter were $22 million. Our total ACV bookings for the year were $85 million, down 10% year over year. While we face some macroeconomic headwinds in the first half of the year, the second half bookings were consistent year over year.
如第 7 頁所示,總 ARR 成長 8%,其中平台 ARR 成長 31%,非平台 ARR 較去年同期持平。第 8 頁所示,本季的總 NRR 為 106%,其中平台 NRR 為 123%,非平台 NRR 為 99%。本季 ACV 預訂額為 2,200 萬美元。我們今年的 ACV 預訂總額為 8,500 萬美元,年減 10%。儘管我們在上半年面臨一些宏觀經濟阻力,但下半年的預訂量比去年同期保持穩定。
I am excited about the future of our software business. This quarter, IDC recognized FICO as a leader in the worldwide Decision Intelligence platform market. This is a testament to our commitment to innovation that enables real-time transparent decision-making at scale. We help organizations design, engineer and orchestrate decisions by automating steps in the decision-making process. FICO was recognized for its capabilities and strategy meeting both today's customers' needs and the needs of our customers in the future.
我對我們軟體業務的未來感到興奮。本季度,IDC 將 FICO 評為全球決策智慧平台市場的領導者。這證明了我們對創新的承諾,能夠實現大規模的即時透明決策。我們透過自動化決策過程中的步驟來幫助組織設計、設計和協調決策。 FICO 因其滿足當今客戶需求和未來客戶需求的能力和策略而獲得認可。
We announced two FICO platform partnerships this quarter. We have partnered with Tata Consulting Services, generally known as TCS, a global services integrator and with Ison Experience is the largest business process outsourcing solutions company in Africa. Both partnerships will leverage FICO platform to create industry-specific solutions for real-time decision making. These partnerships will help us continue to drive strong growth for our platform business.
本季我們宣布了兩個 FICO 平台合作夥伴關係。我們與全球服務整合商 Tata Consulting Services(通常稱為 TCS)合作,並與非洲最大的業務流程外包解決方案公司 Ison Experience 合作。兩個合作夥伴將利用 FICO 平台創建針對即時決策的行業特定解決方案。這些合作夥伴關係將幫助我們繼續推動平台業務的強勁成長。
Before I address fiscal '25 guidance, I'll pass it over to Steve to provide some other financial details.
在討論 25 財年指導之前,我會將其轉交給 Steve,以提供一些其他財務詳細資訊。
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Thanks, Will, and good afternoon, everyone. As Will mentioned, we had another very good quarter with total revenue of $454 million, an increase of 16% over the prior year. Our full-year revenue of $1.718 billion was up 13% over last year. Scores segment revenues for the quarter were $249 million, up 27% from the prior year. B2B revenues in that score space were up 38%, driven primarily by mortgage originations revenues.
謝謝威爾,大家下午好。正如威爾所提到的,我們又度過了一個非常好的季度,總收入達到 4.54 億美元,比上年增長 16%。我們的全年營收為 17.18 億美元,比去年成長 13%。 Scores 部門本季營收為 2.49 億美元,比上年成長 27%。該分數領域的 B2B 收入成長了 38%,這主要是由抵押貸款發放收入推動的。
Our B2C revenues were down 1% versus the prior year due to volume declines in our myFICO.com business. For the full year, B2B revenues were $712 million, up 27% and B2C revenues were $208 million, down 2%. Total scores revenues were $920 million, up 19% despite headwinds in the mortgage originations market. Software segment revenues for the quarter were $205 million, up 5% from the prior year. On-premises and SaaS software revenue grew 8% year over year, while professional services declined 9%.
由於 myFICO.com 業務量下降,我們的 B2C 營收比前一年下降了 1%。全年 B2B 營收為 7.12 億美元,成長 27%,B2C 營收為 2.08 億美元,下降 2%。儘管抵押貸款發放市場面臨阻力,總收入仍成長 19%,達到 9.2 億美元。該季度軟體部門營收為 2.05 億美元,比上年增長 5%。本地和 SaaS 軟體收入較去年同期成長 8%,而專業服務則下降 9%。
Full-year software revenues were $798 million, up 8% from the prior previous year. This quarter, 85% of total company revenues were derived from our Americas region, which is a combination of our North America and Latin America regions. Our EMEA region generated 10% of revenues and the Asia Pacific region delivered 5%. Our total software ARR was $721 million, an 8% increase over the prior year. Platform ARR was $227 million, representing 31% of our total Q4 '24 ARR, up from 26% of total Q4 '23 ARR.
全年軟體收入為 7.98 億美元,比上年增長 8%。本季度,該公司總收入的 85% 來自美洲地區,該地區是北美和拉丁美洲地區的組合。我們的 EMEA 地區貢獻了 10% 的收入,亞太地區貢獻了 5%。我們的軟體 ARR 總額為 7.21 億美元,比上一年增長 8%。平台 ARR 為 2.27 億美元,佔 24 年第 4 季總 ARR 的 31%,高於 23 年第 4 季總 ARR 的 26%。
Platform ARR grew 31% versus the prior year, while non-platform was flat at $494 million this quarter. This aligns with our strategy to focus on FICO platform growth while continuing to retain our non-platform customers. Over time, we do expect migration of these customers to platform products. Our platform land and expand strategy continues to be successful. Our dollar-based net retention rate in the quarter was 106%.
本季平台 ARR 較上年成長 31%,而非平台持平,為 4.94 億美元。這符合我們的策略,即專注於 FICO 平台成長,同時繼續留住我們的非平台客戶。隨著時間的推移,我們確實預期這些客戶將遷移到平台產品。我們的平台落地和擴張策略持續取得成功。本季以美元計算的淨保留率為 106%。
Platform NRR was 123%, while our non-platform NRR was 99%. Platform NRR was driven by a combination of new use cases and increased usage of existing use cases. Our software ACV bookings for the quarter were $22 million. ACV bookings for the full year were $85 million.
平台 NRR 為 123%,而非平台 NRR 為 99%。平台 NRR 是由新用例和現有用例使用量增加共同驅動的。本季我們的軟體 ACV 預訂金額為 2,200 萬美元。 ACV 全年預訂額為 8,500 萬美元。
Turning now to expenses for the quarter, as shown on page 5 of the financial highlights presentation. Our total operating expenses were $257 million this quarter versus $224 million in the prior year, an increase of 15% year over year and flat versus the prior quarter. For the full year, our expenses were $984 million versus $871 million in the prior year, an increase of 13%. Our FY25 guidance assumes lower year-over-year expense growth than in the prior year. We maintain our focus on efficiencies and are committed to prioritizing resources to our most strategic initiatives.
現在轉向本季的支出,如財務摘要演示第 5 頁所示。本季我們的總營運費用為 2.57 億美元,而去年同期為 2.24 億美元,年成長 15%,與上一季持平。全年支出為 9.84 億美元,較上年的 8.71 億美元成長 13%。我們的 2025 財年指引假設費用年增率低於前一年。我們始終關注效率,並致力於將資源優先用於最具戰略意義的措施。
We continue to focus investment to accelerate development and distribution of FICO platform, while also investing in scores resources and marketing. Our non-GAAP operating margin, as shown in our Reg G schedule, was 52% for the quarter compared with 51% in the same quarter last year.
我們繼續專注於投資以加速FICO平台的開發和分銷,同時也投資於分數資源和行銷。正如我們的 Reg G 時間表所示,本季我們的非 GAAP 營業利潤率為 52%,而去年同期為 51%。
We delivered non-GAAP margin expansion of 90 basis points for the full fiscal year. GAAP net income this quarter was $136 million, up 34% from the prior year's quarter. Our non-GAAP net income was $163 million for the quarter, up 29% from the prior year's quarter. For the full year, GAAP net income was $513 million, up 19% versus last year, and non-GAAP net income was $595 million, up 19% versus last year. GAAP earnings per share this quarter were $5.44, up 36% from the prior year. Our non-GAAP earnings per share were $6.54, up 30% from the prior year.
我們整個財年的非 GAAP 利潤率成長了 90 個基點。本季 GAAP 淨利為 1.36 億美元,較上年同期成長 34%。我們本季的非 GAAP 淨利潤為 1.63 億美元,比去年同期成長 29%。全年 GAAP 淨利潤為 5.13 億美元,比去年增長 19%,非 GAAP 淨利潤為 5.95 億美元,比去年增長 19%。本季 GAAP 每股收益為 5.44 美元,比上年增長 36%。我們的非 GAAP 每股收益為 6.54 美元,比上年增長 30%。
For the full year, GAAP earnings per share were $20.45, up 21% from last year, and our non-GAAP earnings per share were $23.74, up 20% from last year. The effective tax rate for the quarter was 20.8%. The effective tax rate for the full year was 20.1%, which included $30 million of reduced tax expense from excess tax benefits recognized upon the settlement or exercise of employee stock awards. We believe that our fiscal year 2025 net effective tax rate is expected to be around 22%, while our recurring tax rate is expected to be around 26%.
全年,GAAP 每股收益為 20.45 美元,比去年增長 21%,非 GAAP 每股收益為 23.74 美元,比去年增長 20%。該季度的有效稅率為20.8%。全年有效稅率為20.1%,其中包括因結算或行使員工股票獎勵而確認的超額稅收優惠而減少的3,000萬美元稅收費用。我們認為,2025 財年的淨有效稅率預計為 22% 左右,經常性稅率預計為 26% 左右。
The recurring tax rate is before any excess tax benefit and other discrete items. Free cash flow for the quarter was $219 million, a 35% increase from the previous year. The full year free cash flow was $607 million and was up 31% versus last year. At the end of the quarter, we had $196 million in cash and marketable investments. Our total debt at quarter end was $2.21 billion, with a weighted average interest rate of 5.2%. Currently, 59% of our total debt is fixed rate. Our floating rate debt is pre-payable at any time and gives us the flexibility to use free cash flow to reduce outstanding floating rate debt balances in future periods.
經常性稅率是在任何超額稅收優惠和其他離散項目之前的稅率。該季度自由現金流為 2.19 億美元,較上年增長 35%。全年自由現金流為 6.07 億美元,比去年成長 31%。截至本季末,我們擁有 1.96 億美元的現金和適銷投資。截至季末,我們的總負債為 22.1 億美元,加權平均利率為 5.2%。目前,我們總債務的 59% 是固定利率。我們的浮動利率債務可隨時提前償還,使我們能夠靈活地利用自由現金流來減少未來期間未償還的浮動利率債務餘額。
Turning to return of capital. We bought back 188,000 shares in the fourth quarter at an average price of $1,721 per share. We continue to view share repurchases as an attractive use of cash. In fiscal 2024, we repurchased 606,000 shares at an average price of $1,366 per share for a total of $828 million.
轉向資本回報。我們在第四季以每股 1,721 美元的平均價格回購了 188,000 股股票。我們仍然認為股票回購是一種有吸引力的現金用途。 2024 財年,我們以每股 1,366 美元的平均價格回購了 606,000 股股票,總金額為 8.28 億美元。
And with that, I'll turn it back to Will to review our fiscal 2025 guidance.
接下來,我將把問題轉交給 Will,讓他審查我們的 2025 財政年度指引。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Thanks, Steve. We continue to execute on our strategy, the proof is in our financial results and customer adoption of both our software and scores products. Fiscal '24 was a great year. We had our most successful FICO World as we brought together customers and prospective customers from around the globe. We continue to win the trust of our customers with over 100 customers speaking on stage as to how our software helps achieve their goals.
謝謝,史蒂夫。我們繼續執行我們的策略,我們的財務表現以及客戶對我們的軟體和分數產品的採用就是證明。 24 財年是偉大的一年。我們擁有最成功的 FICO World,因為我們將來自世界各地的客戶和潛在客戶聚集在一起。我們持續贏得客戶的信任,超過 100 名客戶在台上講述我們的軟體如何幫助他們實現目標。
We continue to be an industry leader as evidenced by analyst community reports, including IDC, Forrester, Gartner, and Chartis. We continue to innovate. At FICO World, we introduced APIs to drive partner channel adoption of FICO Platform. We previewed the upcoming launch of our new FICO Marketplace.
IDC、Forrester、Gartner 和 Chartis 等分析師社群報告證明,我們仍然是產業領導者。我們不斷創新。在 FICO World,我們引入了 API 來推動合作夥伴管道採用 FICO 平台。我們預覽了即將推出的新 FICO Marketplace。
In year, we delivered new FICO Platform capabilities, created new IP using responsible AI methods and announced the upcoming launch of FICO Score mortgage simulator. We continued our commitment to financial literacy for both students and adults. We completed the field of dreams, the field of financial empowerment summer tour with Chelsea Football Club and U.S. Soccer Foundation. We hosted Score better future workshops across the U.S., which is just one of FICO's programs that help millions of people gain access to credit.
今年,我們提供了新的 FICO 平台功能,使用負責任的人工智慧方法創建了新的 IP,並宣布即將推出 FICO Score 抵押模擬器。我們繼續致力於提高學生和成人的金融知識。我們與切爾西足球俱樂部和美國足球基金會一起完成了夢想的領域、金融賦能領域的夏季之旅。我們在美國各地舉辦了 Score better future 研討會,這只是 FICO 幫助數百萬人獲得信貸的計劃之一。
We're well positioned for strong fiscal '25. As we announce our guidance, I'll remind everyone that consistent with prior years, we expect some of the pricing initiatives in 2015 have an additional impact beyond our guidance numbers. And because of uncertainty in volumes, it's difficult to estimate the timing and magnitude of that impact.
我們已為強勁的 25 財年做好了充分準備。當我們宣布我們的指導意見時,我將提醒大家,與往年一樣,我們預計 2015 年的一些定價舉措會產生超出我們指導數字的額外影響。由於數量的不確定性,很難估計這種影響的時間和程度。
While macro trends are difficult to predict, our recurring revenues and diversified product portfolio give us considerable visibility into fiscal 2025. With that in mind, we are guiding double-digit growth for both revenue and earnings metrics as shown on page 13 of the presentation. We are guiding revenues of about $1.98 billion, a 15% year-over-year increase. GAAP net income of about $624 million, an increase of 22%, GAAP EPS of about $25.05, an increase of 23%, non-GAAP net income of approximately $712 million, an increase of 20% and non-GAAP EPS of approximately $28.58, an increase of 20%.
雖然宏觀趨勢難以預測,但我們的經常性收入和多元化的產品組合使我們能夠對2025 財年有相當大的了解。文稿第13 頁所示。我們預計營收約 19.8 億美元,年增 15%。 GAAP 淨利約 6.24 億美元,成長 22%,GAAP 每股盈餘約 25.05 美元,成長 23%,非 GAAP 淨利約 7.12 億美元,成長 20%,非 GAAP 每股盈餘約 28.58 美元,增加了20% 。
With that, I'll turn the call back to Dave to open the Q&A session.
之後,我會將電話轉回戴夫以開始問答環節。
Dave Singleton - Vice President, Investor Relations
Dave Singleton - Vice President, Investor Relations
Thanks, Will. This concludes our prepared remarks, and we're now ready to take questions. Operator, please open the lines.
謝謝,威爾。我們準備好的發言到此結束,現在我們準備好回答問題。接線員,請開通線路。
Operator
Operator
(Operator Instructions) Manav Patnaik, Barclays.
(操作員指令)Manav Patnaik,巴克萊銀行。
Manav Patnaik - Analyst
Manav Patnaik - Analyst
Well, thank you for the disclosure and pointing us to the blog as well. I think the whole [0.2%] that you've talked about, that's been pretty consistent. I guess just thinking ahead, do you still see more room for that gap to close? I mean, I guess it's 1% the mark?
好吧,感謝您的披露並為我們指出了該博客。我認為您所談論的整個 [0.2%] 是非常一致的。我想,只要思考一下,您是否仍然認為縮小這一差距還有更大的空間?我的意思是,我猜是 1% 吧?
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Well, we continue to believe that our score delivers tremendous value relative to what we charge. And so yes, I would say that there is still opportunity.
好吧,我們仍然相信,相對於我們的收費,我們的分數提供了巨大的價值。所以,是的,我想說仍然有機會。
Manav Patnaik - Analyst
Manav Patnaik - Analyst
Okay. Good enough. And then, well, where there's obviously a lot of work and focus on your end is on the software side. And I was just wondering if you could just level set us with, I don't know how you want to think about it, whether what inning you're in and what some of the key initiatives you have planned for this year is on that software side, whether it's maybe more spending to keep investing in the platform? Or just anything there would be helpful.
好的。夠好了。然後,顯然有很多工作要做,並且重點關注的是軟體方面。我只是想知道你是否可以告訴我們,我不知道你想如何考慮這個問題,無論你處於哪一局,以及你今年計劃的一些關鍵舉措是什麼軟體方面,是否可能需要更多支出來繼續投資該平台?或只是任何有幫助的東西。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
I would say that we're still very much in early innings. You can see that with our penetration of what we call enterprise platform customers, EPCs, where we've penetrated a little under half of the top 30 financial institutions globally. So there's still a lot of opportunity for landing the platform with major players with major lending institutions. And that, of course, is before we go down market, that's before we expand through to other verticals. So I'd say it's very, very early innings.
我想說我們仍處於早期階段。您可以看到,隨著我們對企業平台客戶(EPC)的滲透,我們已經滲透到全球前 30 名金融機構中的一半以下。因此,與主要貸款機構的主要參與者登陸該平台仍有許多機會。當然,這是在我們進入下游市場之前,也就是在我們擴展到其他垂直領域之前。所以我想說這是非常非常早的幾局。
That said, we're so far beyond minimum viable products that we're not in inning one. We are far enough along that we have the preeminent platform in the world for decisioning and it is increasingly recognized by players who need it. So that continues to be something really strong for us.
也就是說,我們遠遠超出了最低可行產品的範圍,因此我們還沒有進入第一局。我們已經走得很遠了,我們擁有世界上卓越的決策平台,並且越來越受到需要它的玩家的認可。所以這對我們來說仍然是非常重要的事情。
I think in terms of investment and when do margins expand, we will continue to invest in the platform. There's certainly a lot more features and functionality that our customers are clamoring for. And as we've discussed in the past, we are investing in indirect sales and distribution. We are investing in an ecosystem that with our open APIs should enable all kinds of players that we don't ordinarily do business with to take advantage of our decisioning IP.
我認為就投資而言,當利潤擴大時,我們將繼續投資該平台。當然,我們的客戶也迫切需要更多的特性和功能。正如我們過去所討論的,我們正在投資間接銷售和分銷。我們正在投資一個生態系統,透過我們的開放 API,我們通常不與之開展業務的各種參與者都可以利用我們的決策智慧財產權。
So there is this pretty big opportunity still ahead of us, and it does demand some level of investment. All that said, we are in the process of reengineering our platforms for scalability and for margins. And there's no doubt that even if we maintain high R&D spend, which we do today and which will likely continue for some time, our margins ought to improve over time just because we're getting more scale and because we've designed with a view to improving margins through more scale. So I hope that's helpful. Early days, continued investments, but we're going to get more profitable anyway.
因此,我們仍然面臨著巨大的機遇,而且確實需要一定程度的投資。儘管如此,我們正在重新設計我們的平台,以實現可擴展性和利潤。毫無疑問,即使我們保持高研發支出(我們今天這樣做,並且可能會持續一段時間),我們的利潤率應該隨著時間的推移而提高,因為我們的規模正在擴大,並且因為我們的設計是基於這樣的觀點透過擴大規模來提高利潤。所以我希望這有幫助。在早期,持續投資,但無論如何我們都會獲得更多利潤。
Operator
Operator
Surinder Thind, Jefferries.
蘇林德·辛德,傑弗里斯。
Surinder Thind - Analyst
Surinder Thind - Analyst
Well, just on the software piece, can you maybe just disaggregate the overall guidance, what your expectations are for the software component and how we should think about maybe platform versus non-pump at this point?
好吧,就軟體而言,您能否分解總體指導、您對軟體組件的期望是什麼以及我們此時應該如何考慮平台與非泵?
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Yes, thanks for the question, Sure. We don't guide at that level. We don't guide at the segment level. We just got the total corporate level. So we don't talk about specific what we expect in scores versus software and even below that on the software side, we don't split out platform versus non-platform.
是的,謝謝你的提問,當然。我們不提供那個級別的指導。我們不會在細分層面提供指導。我們剛剛得到了公司的整體水平。因此,我們不會談論我們對分數與軟體的具體期望,甚至在軟體方面低於分數,我們也不會區分平台與非平台。
Frankly, it's a little difficult sometimes to even know the difference between platform and non-platform, (inaudible) early stage with some of these deals that could end up on the platform or could end up in the legacy product as well. So we don't really split that out.
坦白說,有時甚至很難知道平台和非平台之間的區別,(聽不清楚)早期階段,其中一些交易可能最終出現在平台上,也可能最終出現在遺留產品中。所以我們並沒有真正將其分開。
Surinder Thind - Analyst
Surinder Thind - Analyst
Understood. And then in terms of just when I think about the, what I would call the partnerships that you're putting into place, in the process of them trying to build out industry solutions. Any color there you can provide on what specific solutions they may be looking at or what industries they might be looking at, at this point? And then how does that work in terms of the IP sharing that such a relationship might have?
明白了。然後,當我想到時,我會稱之為你們正在建立的合作夥伴關係,在他們試圖建立產業解決方案的過程中。目前,您可以提供有關他們可能正在考慮哪些具體解決方案或他們可能正在考慮哪些行業的任何顏色嗎?那麼,就這種關係可能存在的 IP 共享而言,它是如何運作的呢?
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Sure. It's a good question. I mean, as all of you know, partnerships work best when there's enough economics in it for both sides and where the relationship is complementary and that partners are not competing for the same thing. And so in our partnership with TCS, for example, which is a very strong partnership. We have a number of things going on here. We have tremendous decisioning IP.
當然。這是一個好問題。我的意思是,正如你們所知,當雙方都有足夠的經濟利益並且關係是互補的並且合作夥伴不會為同一件事而競爭時,夥伴關係才能發揮最佳作用。例如,我們與 TCS 的合作夥伴關係非常牢固。我們這裡發生了很多事情。我們擁有龐大的決策智慧財產權。
They have tremendous reach and distribution and professional services and participation in a whole lot of verticals that FICO does not participate in. So we're doing two kinds of things with them. One is they're developing a level of expertise and confidence for implementing our solutions so that it can help our direct customers with implementation because they favor professional services in a way that we do not. And so there's a benefit there. But they're also very interested in providing solutions to their customers, vertical by vertical and leveraging IP.
他們擁有巨大的影響力、分銷和專業服務,並參與了許多 FICO 未參與的垂直行業。一是他們正在為實施我們的解決方案培養一定程度的專業知識和信心,以便能夠幫助我們的直接客戶實施,因為他們以我們不喜歡的方式青睞專業服務。所以這是有好處的。但他們也非常有興趣為客戶提供解決方案,逐一垂直領域並利用智慧財產權。
And I think they recognize that our decisioning IP is pretty special. And so they're building solutions around our IP for particular verticals where they have a presence and some expertise. So for example, in the logistics area, TCS is building a proprietary solution based on our decisioning IP. But our intent is to do that and replicate that in other verticals as well.
我認為他們認識到我們的決策智慧財產權非常特別。因此,他們正在圍繞我們的知識產權為他們擁有業務和一些專業知識的特定垂直行業建立解決方案。例如,在物流領域,TCS 正在基於我們的決策 IP 建立專有解決方案。但我們的目的是做到這一點,並在其他垂直領域複製這一點。
Operator
Operator
George Tong, Goldman Sachs.
喬治唐,高盛。
George Tong - Analyst
George Tong - Analyst
You're planning to raise mortgage prices by approximately 50% in 2025. Can you discuss how you're thinking about prices for non-mortgage scores in 2025?
您計劃在 2025 年將抵押貸款價格提高約 50%。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Yes. So first of all, I guess I would point out that at [495], that's not a 50% increase. It's less than a 50% increase. But in terms of the other scores prices, as you know, we review the entire portfolio every year and we think about where it's appropriate and fair to raise prices, and we don't do the same thing in every pocket of scores demand. it varies. It varies by year, it varies by segment. And we did apply some increases to non-mortgage. Of course, mortgage isn't the entire business by any means.
是的。首先,我想我會指出,在 [495] 中,這並不是 50% 的成長。增幅還不到 50%。但就其他樂譜價格而言,如您所知,我們每年都會審查整個投資組合,並考慮在哪裡適當且公平地提高價格,並且我們不會對每個樂譜需求都做同樣的事情。它有所不同。它因年份而異,因細分市場而異。我們確實對非抵押貸款進行了一些增加。當然,無論如何,抵押貸款並不是整個業務。
George Tong - Analyst
George Tong - Analyst
Okay. Got it. And then broadly, can you talk about how you expect the Trump presidency to impact FICO's operations?
好的。知道了。然後,您能大致談談您預計川普擔任總統將如何影響 FICO 的運作嗎?
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Yes. That's an obvious kind of a question. And as you can imagine, we think a lot about it. That said, I would just say that we work with both Republican and Democratic administrations, and we've had good success with both and the reason is that we're such a core component of the markets in which we operate, we're so integral to the system that it's really unlikely that Republican or Democratic administrations will do things that the push FICO out of its position in the system. We anticipate that in Trump administration, we'll continue to operate as we have is the cornerstone of the credit lending market in the US. And so we look forward to that.
是的。這是一個顯而易見的問題。正如你所想像的,我們對此思考了很多。也就是說,我只想說,我們與共和黨和民主黨政府都合作,並且我們都取得了良好的成功,原因是我們是我們經營所在市場的核心組成部分,我們是如此共和黨或民主黨政府實際上不太可能做出將FICO 擠出其在系統中的地位的事情。我們預計,在川普政府內,我們將繼續作為美國信貸市場的基石開展業務。所以我們對此充滿期待。
Operator
Operator
Faiza Alwy, Deutsche Bank.
Faiza Alwy,德意志銀行。
Faiza Alwy - Analyst
Faiza Alwy - Analyst
Yes. So will you alluded to some macro uncertainty? And I'm curious if you could elaborate on that? Like are you expecting mortgage volumes to recover in 2025. We are seeing rates a little bit higher. And I'm curious if you can comment on like number of pools that you were seeing per application because there are some indications that those have been declining more recently.
是的。那麼您會提到一些宏觀不確定性嗎?我很好奇你能否詳細說明一下?就像您預計抵押貸款數量會在 2025 年恢復一樣。我很好奇您是否可以評論您在每個應用程式中看到的類似數量的池,因為有一些跡象表明這些池最近一直在下降。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Well, so with respect to macroeconomic uncertainty, I think that nobody knows what the future holds, not us and not you -- and so we leave it to you to come up with your own estimates on where you think mortgage volumes will be over the coming year. We do anticipate mortgage volumes will increase in the future. But the schedule for that is a little hard to say. And so we've incorporated in our guidance as is typical for us an appropriate level of conservatism. And we'll just have to see how things pan out. In terms of number of pools, we don't have a public pronouncement on that.
嗯,所以就宏觀經濟的不確定性而言,我認為沒有人知道未來會怎樣,我們和你們都不知道——所以我們讓你們自己對抵押貸款數量將超過的情況做出估計。我們確實預計未來抵押貸款數量將會增加。但具體的時間表有點難說。因此,我們在指導中納入了我們典型的適當程度的保守主義。我們只需要看看事情會如何發展。在礦池數量方面,我們沒有公開聲明。
Faiza Alwy - Analyst
Faiza Alwy - Analyst
Okay. Understood. And then I noticed you've been talking about the value that the FICO score provides to secondary market participants, and I'm curious if you have been thinking about that as a potential revenue opportunity going forward? Do you think there's something there?
好的。明白了。然後我注意到您一直在談論 FICO 評分為二級市場參與者提供的價值,我很好奇您是否一直將其視為未來的潛在收入機會?你認為那裡有東西嗎?
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
That is a very interesting question. There's no doubt that many people who use the FICO Score don't pay for it. Many people use and rely on the FICO Score. Our business model today has historically been built around -- we charge for the first use and then the downstream and subsequent uses when they are permitted by us by contract, tend to be free. Of course, we're in business.
這是一個非常有趣的問題。毫無疑問,許多使用 FICO 評分的人並沒有為此付費。許多人使用並依賴 FICO 評分。我們今天的商業模式歷來都是圍繞——我們對首次使用收費,然後在我們合約允許的情況下下游和後續使用往往是免費的。當然,我們是在做生意。
And so we think about every kind of variation on a theme, and we thought about trying to put the pricing where the usage is to make sure that you could lower prices in one place and raise them somewhere else, maybe that's more fair. But we also recognize that the system is what it is, and every change has to be scrutinized from the standpoint of what kind of unforeseen consequences and what kind of difficulties might we encounter if we change the system.
因此,我們考慮了主題的各種變化,並考慮了嘗試將定價放在使用的地方,以確保您可以在一個地方降低價格並在其他地方提高價格,也許這更公平。但我們也意識到,制度就是這樣,每一次改變都要從改變制度會帶來什麼樣的不可預見的後果、會遇到什麼樣的困難的角度來審視。
So it's easy for our strategic thinkers inside FICO to come up with dozens and dozens of variations on how we might price our IP. And trust me, we do. We think about those things, but we're also really mindful of the kind of responsibility that we have to the economy to the community, to our customers, to the participants in the ecosystem and we are loath to make changes that could rattle markets. We don't want to do that. So we're very, very cautious and careful about everything we do. And you've seen that, but that's not to say we don't study it. And if appropriate, we might consider something like that in the future.
因此,FICO 內部的策略思想家很容易就如何為我們的智慧財產權定價提出數十種變體。相信我,我們會的。我們考慮這些事情,但我們也真正意識到我們對經濟、社區、客戶、生態系統參與者的責任,我們不願意做出可能擾亂市場的改變。我們不想這樣做。因此,我們對所做的一切都非常非常謹慎。你已經看到了這一點,但這並不是說我們不研究它。如果合適的話,我們將來可能會考慮類似的事情。
Operator
Operator
Owen Lau, Oppenheimer.
歐文劉,奧本海默。
Owen Lau - Analyst
Owen Lau - Analyst
Going back to your guidance, could you please maybe add more color on how do you assume how many weight cuts you expect in 2025? And how will that impact the loan volume.
回到你的指導,你能否補充一下你如何假設你預計 2025 年會減重多少?這將如何影響貸款量。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
That's one of those areas where everybody has a different opinion and we don't publish our opinion. I think you know what our pricing is. And so I think you should apply that to your own best estimates as a guide to making your decisions about what the future holds for us. I don't know that my speculating on how many rate cut (inaudible) is going to be helpful to anyone. I'm not sure that my opinion is worth more than anyone else's.
這是每個人都有不同意見的領域之一,我們不會發表我們的意見。我想你知道我們的定價是多少。因此,我認為您應該將其應用到您自己的最佳估計中,作為您對我們的未來做出決定的指南。我不知道我對降息多少(聽不清楚)的猜測會對任何人有幫助。我不確定我的意見比其他人的意見更有價值。
Owen Lau - Analyst
Owen Lau - Analyst
Got it. And then on the platform side, some of the analytic firms were under pressure because of the end market challenges and budget cuts and vendor consolidation and things like that. Could you please give us an update on what you're hearing from your clients given that we are going to the year-end budgeting period.
知道了。然後在平台方面,由於終端市場挑戰、預算削減和供應商整合等原因,一些分析公司面臨壓力。鑑於我們即將進入年底預算期,您能否向我們介紹您從客戶那裡聽到的最新情況。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Yes, absolutely. What you point out is something that we used to experience a lot in our applications business 5 and 10 years ago, where we were very much under budget pressure. And so when our customers were under a lot of budget pressure, the sales cycle stretched out and decisions were postponed and deals were postponed. We see much less of that now. What we see is that the platform is truly a strategic investment by our customers.
是的,絕對是。您指出的是我們 5 年前、10 年前在應用程式業務中經常經歷的事情,當時我們面臨著非常大的預算壓力。因此,當我們的客戶面臨很大的預算壓力時,銷售週期就會延長,決策就會被推遲,交易也會被推遲。現在我們看到的這種情況要少得多。我們看到的是,該平台確實是我們客戶的策略投資。
It tends to be decided at the C-suite level and so I won't say that we're immune to budgetary pressures. But I think that there is this imperative for our customers to make a transition to digital relationships with their consumer customers and they want the kind of power that our platform brings. And their choice is really to try to build it themselves some kind of homegrown solution or to buy it from FICO because there's really not any meaningful competition in terms of features and functionality with our platform.
這往往是由最高管理層決定的,所以我不會說我們不受預算壓力的影響。但我認為,我們的客戶迫切需要與消費者客戶建立數位關係,他們希望獲得我們平台帶來的力量。他們的選擇實際上是嘗試自己建立某種本土解決方案,或從 FICO 購買,因為在功能和功能方面與我們的平台確實沒有任何有意義的競爭。
And as between building it in-house and buying the FICO solution, we've invested close to $1 billion in our software business to get to this point. And there are a few customers with the wherewithal to make those kinds of investments. And so any kind of a homegrown solution is just not going to be competitive with what they -- FICO at a fraction of the cost.
在內部建置和購買 FICO 解決方案之間,我們已經在軟體業務上投資了近 10 億美元才能達到這一目標。有一些客戶有足夠的資金進行此類投資。因此,任何一種本土解決方案都無法與 FICO 的成本相比具有競爭力。
And so what we see is tremendous adoption of our platform because they do the analysis, and it's a very cost-effective solution, and they get more functionality than they were planning on. They get it much faster than they could if they did it themselves. And so that's really kind of how that decision is going down. So budgetary pressure, who knows, with less budgetary pressure, maybe we'd be doing even better than we are, we can't really say. But we are not experiencing a lot of slowdown because of budget pressures.
因此,我們看到我們的平台得到了廣泛的採用,因為他們進行了分析,這是一個非常經濟高效的解決方案,而且他們獲得了比計劃更多的功能。他們比自己做要快得多。這就是這個決定的實際情況。所以預算壓力,誰知道呢,如果預算壓力較小,也許我們會做得比現在更好,我們真的不能說。但由於預算壓力,我們並沒有經歷太大的放緩。
Operator
Operator
Kyle Peterson, Needham and Company.
凱爾彼得森,李約瑟公司。
Kyle Peterson - Analyst
Kyle Peterson - Analyst
I wanted to start off on the scores revenue this quarter came in really strong. Just wanted to see where there any one-timers. I know in the past, sometimes, you guys have had some licensing deals or royalty true-up. So I just want to see like, is that a clean number? Or was there anything onetime in the 4Q number?
我想從本季的營收非常強勁開始。只是想看看哪裡有一次性的。我知道過去有時你們有過一些授權協議或版稅調整。所以我只想看看,這是一個乾淨的數字嗎?還是4Q數字中曾經有過什麼?
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Yes, there was a little bit of onetime and there's off, [I mean], as you know, most quarters, there's some. There was probably a little bit more than -- certainly than last quarter than this quarter. So there's a few million dollars of additional revenue there. I mean it's nothing all that material in the overall number, but there definitely was a little bit of onetime revenue that we don't necessarily have in our run rate.
是的,有一點曾經的,然後就結束了,[我的意思是],如你所知,大多數季度,都有一些。可能比上個季度比本季多一點。所以那裡有幾百萬美元的額外收入。我的意思是,總體數字並不重要,但肯定有一點一次性收入,我們的運行率不一定有。
Kyle Peterson - Analyst
Kyle Peterson - Analyst
Okay. That's helpful. And then I guess just a follow-up on the mortgage score price rollout. I appreciate the transparency there. Should we think of this as being fully phased in on January 1? Or is there kind of a scheduled phasing or any lag time that we should be mindful of?
好的。這很有幫助。然後我想這只是抵押貸款評分價格推出的後續行動。我很欣賞那裡的透明度。我們是否應該認為這將在 1 月 1 日全面實施?或者是否有我們應該注意的預定階段或任何延遲時間?
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Yes, there's always a lag. It's not scheduled, but there's -- we used to always talk about discord being feathered in, right, the price because some customers are on deals that don't lap on January 1, still might lap later. So it's consistent with every other year we've had essentially.
是的,總是有滯後。雖然沒有安排,但我們過去總是談論價格方面的不和諧,對吧,因為有些客戶的交易不會在 1 月 1 日生效,但仍可能在以後生效。所以這與我們過去的每一年基本上是一致的。
Operator
Operator
Jason Haas, Wells Fargo.
傑森‧哈斯,富國銀行。
Jason Haas - Analyst
Jason Haas - Analyst
I'm curious if you could talk about what sort of analysis you did to arrive at the $4.95 mortgage score price? Like why did you decide that was the right number to go with? And then I'm also curious, recognize you're not going to go through the details of the pricing for auto and card, but if you could also talk about what sort of analysis you've run to determine what would be the appropriate price for those verticals as well.
我很好奇您能否談談您是透過何種分析得出 4.95 美元的抵押貸款評分價格的?例如你為什麼認為這個數字是正確的?然後我也很好奇,認識到您不會詳細了解汽車和卡的定價細節,但您是否也可以談談您進行了哪些分析來確定合適的價格對於那些垂直領域也是如此。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
There are a lot of factors that go into it. There's not a formula. It's not formulaic, but we look at everything. We do look at volumes. We look at the market. We think a lot about whether the price is fair, whether we're asking our customers to pay a price that exceeds the value that we provide. And we think a lot about those things. And you can probably imagine my view on this, which is that we think it's tremendous value. And so we're fine with where we are. Every year is different.
其中有很多因素。沒有公式。這不是公式化的,但我們會考慮一切。我們確實關注數量。我們看看市場。我們經常考慮價格是否公平,是否要求客戶支付超出我們提供的價值的價格。我們對這些事情思考了很多。你可能可以想像我對此的看法,那就是我們認為它具有巨大的價值。所以我們對目前的情況很滿意。每年都是不同的。
The percentage increases each year are different. The dollar amount increases are different each year. There's not a formula for it. And we sit down in the couple of months before the September 1 rate card gets published to our partners and we think about it. We also have discussions with them. So there's just a lot of factors that go into it.
每年的增幅都不同。每年的美元增幅都不同。沒有一個公式。在 9 月 1 日的價目表發布給我們的合作夥伴之前的幾個月裡,我們會坐下來思考這個問題。我們也與他們進行了討論。所以這裡面有很多因素。
Jason Haas - Analyst
Jason Haas - Analyst
That's helpful. And then if I could ask a follow-up. On the non-platform business declined slightly, which is a little off trend. I know it's not the focus to grow that, but I was curious if there was anything in particular we should be aware for the quarter there?
這很有幫助。然後我是否可以詢問後續情況。非平台業務略有下降,有點偏離趨勢。我知道這不是成長的重點,但我很好奇本季是否有什麼特別我們應該注意的事情?
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
No. There's nothing there. It's based on volumes. I mean some volumes get a little bit more, a little bit less. It's just volumes and amounted usage we had this quarter.
不,那裡什麼都沒有。它基於數量。我的意思是有些卷會多一點,少一點。這只是我們本季的數量和使用量。
Jason Haas - Analyst
Jason Haas - Analyst
That makes sense.
這是有道理的。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
It's worth pointing out. I mean, how do we think about that business -- we have this very strong legacy business where we have large market share in a half dozen very important applications for our customers. They typically renew on like a three-year renewal cycle, that's not -- it varies, but it happens often. And we're not in a big hurry to push them to the platform. We have our hands full with new business on the platform. And so as long as we have customers who are happy to renew the legacy products, we're happy with that.
值得指出的是。我的意思是,我們如何看待這項業務——我們擁有非常強大的傳統業務,我們在六種對客戶來說非常重要的應用程式中擁有巨大的市場份額。他們通常會以三年的續訂週期進行續訂,這不是——它會有所不同,但這種情況經常發生。我們並不急於將它們推向平台。我們正忙於平台上的新業務。因此,只要我們有願意更新舊產品的客戶,我們就很高興。
And we continue to invest in those legacy products to make sure that the features and functionality are appropriate for today and for tomorrow and for the future. So I think our legacy business is going to be healthy for a very long time to come. We're not really pushing to grow it quickly. And we're not in a harvest mode either. We make modest investment to keep it current. And the fluctuation, whether it's a little over 100% or a little below 100% in terms of where we stand. That tends to be volume driven. It tends to be usage by our customers that pushes us there.
我們繼續投資這些傳統產品,以確保其特性和功能適合今天、明天和未來。因此,我認為我們的傳統業務將在未來很長一段時間內保持健康。我們並沒有真正推動它快速成長。我們也不處於收穫模式。我們進行適度的投資以保持其最新狀態。還有波動,就我們的立場而言,無論是略高於 100% 還是略低於 100%。這往往是數量驅動的。往往是我們的客戶的使用推動我們到達那裡。
Operator
Operator
Ashish Sabadra, RBC Capital Markets.
Ashish Sabadra,加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。
David Paige - Analyst
David Paige - Analyst
This is David Paige on for Ashish. Congrats on the good results. Two questions. I was wondering if you could talk about the, if any, competitive dynamics in auto and in card. And then as a follow-up, just a higher level of thinking of what your capital allocation priorities are going to be in 2025.
我是阿什什的大衛·佩奇。恭喜取得好成績。兩個問題。我想知道您是否可以談談汽車和卡片領域的競爭動態(如果有的話)。然後作為後續行動,從更高層次思考 2025 年的資本配置優先事項。
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Okay. So with respect to auto and card, those two businesses look today like they did a year ago and like they did two years ago, very little change competitively. Our customers continue to use our products and just not a lot of change there, not a lot of competitive threat, not a lot of new innovation coming from competitors. So really kind of no change there. With respect to capital allocation, our strategy there remains unchanged.
好的。因此,就汽車和銀行卡而言,這兩項業務今天看起來就像一年前和兩年前一樣,競爭力幾乎沒有變化。我們的客戶繼續使用我們的產品,只是沒有太多變化,沒有太多競爭威脅,沒有太多來自競爭對手的新創新。所以確實沒有什麼改變。在資本配置方面,我們的策略並沒有改變。
As you know, we strive to return capital to our shareholders. We have a very efficient business model. We try to run a pretty efficient balance sheet. We try to manage our leverage to between 2x and 3x and have some level of efficiency there. And it is remarkable to say with a PE north of 100 that we still think our stock is a screaming value, but we really do believe that.
如您所知,我們努力向股東返還資本。我們擁有非常有效率的商業模式。我們嘗試運行一個非常有效的資產負債表。我們嘗試將槓桿率控制在 2 倍到 3 倍之間,並實現一定程度的效率。值得注意的是,在市盈率超過 100 的情況下,我們仍然認為我們的股票具有驚人的價值,但我們確實相信這一點。
And I've been doing these calls now for 13 years. And every single call, it seems like our stock is at an all-time high, and people wonder why are you still buying back your stock? And to date, it's been a pretty good call. We expect that to continue. We have every intention of returning free cash flow and then some to our shareholders through stock buyback.
我打這些電話已經 13 年了。每一次通話,我們的股票似乎都處於歷史最高點,人們想知道為什麼你還在回購股票?到目前為止,這是一個非常好的決定。我們預計這種情況會持續下去。我們完全打算返還自由現金流,然後透過股票回購向股東返還一些現金流。
Operator
Operator
Simon Clinch, Redburn Atlantic.
西蒙‧克林奇,《雷德本大西洋月刊》。
Simon Clinch - Analyst
Simon Clinch - Analyst
I was wondering, well, perhaps you could -- it's quite an important day to be issuing your earnings in the US. And I was wondering if you could give some thoughts around really around the FHFA's proposal and implementation of this proposal in the fourth quarter. Do you think anything really changes in terms of the probabilities of that being either delayed or canceled or any thoughts around that would be very useful.
我想知道,好吧,也許你可以——今天是在美國發布你的收入的非常重要的一天。我想知道您是否可以圍繞 FHFA 的提案以及第四季度該提案的實施提出一些想法。您認為在延遲或取消的可能性方面確實有什麼變化嗎?
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
We wonder the same thing, and I think no one knows I don't think it's a secret that the industry has been slow to move on the expected implementation because there are some things that still have to be sorted out. The FHFA has a plan. We're working with them, cooperating with them every way we can to see it happen. But there's no telling what a new administration might do. It's just really hard to say. Maybe things take a little bit longer than they otherwise might have. That's probably the most likely scenario. But there could be a change in direction, one just doesn't know.
我們想知道同樣的事情,我認為沒有人知道,我認為該行業在預期實施方面進展緩慢並不是一個秘密,因為還有一些事情需要解決。 FHFA 有一個計劃。我們正在與他們合作,盡我們所能與他們合作,以實現這一目標。但尚不清楚新政府會做什麼。這真的很難說。也許事情比原本可能需要的時間還要長。這可能是最有可能的情況。但方向可能會發生變化,只是人們不知道。
Simon Clinch - Analyst
Simon Clinch - Analyst
Okay. That's useful. And just as a follow-up then, just on the software business, could you provide a little bit more color just around sort of where you are in terms of exploring the investments behind expanding your distribution beyond just your large financial customers and just where you are with that, please?
好的。這很有用。作為後續行動,就軟體業務而言,您能否在探索擴大分銷範圍背後的投資方面提供更多的信息,以了解您所處的位置,而不僅僅是您的大型金融客戶以及您所在的地方請問是這樣嗎?
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Yes. There's a few ways we're going at that. I mean, at the upper end of the ecosystem, we're working with partners. So I mentioned TCS was one, but we're in conversations with a number and have deals with a number of other partners. So the big systems integrators, they are very natural partners for us to get into other verticals.
是的。我們有幾種方法可以做到這一點。我的意思是,在生態系統的高端,我們正在與合作夥伴合作。我提到 TCS 是其中之一,但我們正在與一些合作夥伴進行對話,並與許多其他合作夥伴達成了交易。因此,大型系統整合商是我們進入其他垂直領域的天然合作夥伴。
And they have customers, they have distribution, they have skills, they have domain expertise and they can take that, apply it to our IP and provide solutions in these other verticals. And so that's clearly a very efficient way for us to get into kind of more diversified markets.
他們有客戶、有分銷、有技能、有領域專業知識,他們可以利用這些知識,將其應用到我們的智慧財產權中,並在其他垂直領域提供解決方案。因此,這顯然是我們進入更加多元化市場的一種非常有效的方式。
The other thing that we're focused on, which I think is going to take longer is, I wouldn't call it quite a self-service model, but more a self-service model where we have open APIs and ISVs and resellers and VARs have the opportunity to come and leverage our platform and our IP with very little intervention from us. And in the long run, we'd really like to see that flourish. We have a marketplace that we've built to facilitate this. But I think that's going to take time to build.
我們關注的另一件事(我認為這將需要更長的時間)是,我不會將其稱為自助服務模型,而是更多的自助服務模型,其中我們擁有開放的API、ISV 和經銷商, VAR 有機會來利用我們的平台和智慧財產權,而無需我們的介入。從長遠來看,我們真的希望看到這種蓬勃發展。我們建立了一個市場來促進這一點。但我認為這需要時間來建立。
Operator
Operator
Scott Wurtzel, Wolfe Research.
史考特‧沃策爾,沃爾夫研究中心。
Scott Wurtzel - Analyst
Scott Wurtzel - Analyst
Just first one on the ACV bookings trends. I know historically, we usually see a sequential step-up from 3Q to 4Q. And I thought the number was still pretty good. But just wondering, was there any maybe pull forward of bookings into the third quarter that is maybe distorting that seasonal trend a little bit?
這只是 ACV 預訂趨勢的第一個。我知道,從歷史上看,我們通常會看到從第三季到第四季的連續上升。而且我覺得這個數字還是不錯的。但只是想知道,是否有可能將預訂量提前到第三季度,這可能會稍微扭曲季節性趨勢?
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Yes. I mean there's really no reason for a seasonal trend. Typically, a lot of times it does happen that our fourth quarter is higher. But if you look at this year, our third and fourth quarter was exactly the same number, give or take, as the third and fourth quarter combined last year. So probably was some pull forward on some deals from our fourth quarter this year into the third quarter. And there have been some deals last year that pushed from the third and fourth quarter. So it's hard to really look at any one specific quarter that way.
是的。我的意思是,確實沒有理由出現季節性趨勢。通常情況下,很多時候我們的第四季確實會出現更高的情況。但如果你看看今年,我們的第三和第四季的數字與去年第三和第四季的總和完全相同。因此,我們今年第四季的一些交易可能會提前到第三季。去年有一些交易是從第三季和第四季開始的。因此,很難真正以這種方式看待任何特定的季度。
Scott Wurtzel - Analyst
Scott Wurtzel - Analyst
Got it. That's helpful. And then just as a follow-up, just on your guidance, wondering if you can maybe help us understand how you're thinking about investments and expense growth in fiscal year '25.
知道了。這很有幫助。然後作為後續行動,就您的指導而言,想知道您是否可以幫助我們了解您如何看待 25 財年的投資和費用成長。
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Yes. When you see it built into -- if you -- we gave you all the numbers basically, you kind of see what our expense elevate looks like. But as we said, the expense growth that's built into the guidance is a lower growth rate than what we saw in '24. We have some kind of onetime things happening in '24, both non-repeating some benefits we got last year and then some onetime as we paid for this year as well. So there's some growth built into the expenses, but it's less than what we had this year.
是的。當你看到它內建在——如果你——我們基本上給了你所有的數字時,你會看到我們的費用增加是什麼樣的。但正如我們所說,指導中包含的費用成長速度低於我們 24 年所看到的成長率。我們在 24 年發生了一些一次性的事情,既不重複我們去年獲得的一些好處,也有一些一次性的事情,因為我們今年也付出了代價。因此,支出有所增長,但比今年少。
And then it's less than what our top-line revenue growth. So we'll get margin expansion out of that. And then if we're able to beat guidance throughout the year, usually that comes in line in a pretty decent margin. So there's a little bit of expense growth that comes with additional revenue, but that would come at a much higher margin profile as well.
然後它低於我們的頂線收入成長。因此,我們將從中獲得利潤擴張。然後,如果我們能夠全年超越指導,通常會獲得相當可觀的利潤。因此,額外收入會帶來一點費用成長,但這也會帶來更高的利潤率。
Operator
Operator
Andrew Stein, FT Partners.
安德魯‧斯坦,《金融時報》合夥人。
Andrew Stein - Analyst
Andrew Stein - Analyst
I just have one question tonight. Could you at least provide some color on the volume trends within scores when the 30-year mortgage was closer to 6% in the back half of September relative to the rest of the quarter?
今晚我只有一個問題。您能否至少提供一些關於 9 月下半月 30 年期抵押貸款相對於本季其餘時間接近 6% 時的成交量趨勢的資訊?
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Steven Weber - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President
Yes. I mean the best source for data for that is actually just look at what the NBA publishes. That's what we look at. That's actually more real time than the numbers that we see. So we can't really track it on a week-by-week basis like they do.
是的。我的意思是,最好的數據來源實際上就是看看 NBA 發布的內容。這就是我們所看到的。這實際上比我們看到的數字更即時。所以我們不能像他們那樣真正每週跟踪它。
So I would push you to that, first of all. But we did see -- we saw some upticks when the rate came down and then we saw it slow down a little bit. And it's hard to really draw much of a trend from any of that. So obviously, we're very conservative with the way we guide going forward.
所以我首先會推動你做到這一點。但我們確實看到——當利率下降時,我們看到一些上升,然後我們看到它稍微放緩。很難真正從中得出任何趨勢。顯然,我們對未來的指導方式非常保守。
Operator
Operator
Kevin McVay, UBS.
凱文麥克維,瑞銀集團。
David Paige - Analyst
David Paige - Analyst
Could you give us a sense of with the 2025 pricing, how much of that is factored into the guidance already just directionally? And is there anything from '24 that's factored into the '25 guidance? I guess, any sense of just how that phases, maybe anything that didn't occur in '24 in the '25 and '25 more broadly?
您能否讓我們了解 2025 年的定價,其中有多少已經定向地納入指導中? '24 中的任何內容是否已納入 '25 指南中?我想,對於這個階段是如何發生的,也許是24年、25年和25年更廣泛的情況下沒有發生的事情有什麼感覺嗎?
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
William Lansing - Chief Executive Officer, Director
Yes. I think that the two things going on there. One is the new pricing each year goes into effect on Jan 1, but our fiscal runs from October 1 to September 30. So obviously, there's a one-quarter discrepancy in the pricing -- and when the pricing gets, so that's one factor that influences it. And then the other, as Steve mentioned earlier, is a lot of our channel partner customers have multiyear deals. And when they do, we honor the prices from prior years. And so that's another thing that can affect that relationship.
是的。我認為那裡發生了兩件事。一是每年的新定價於 1 月 1 日生效,但我們的財政週期從 10 月 1 日到 9 月 30 日。影響它。其次,正如史蒂夫之前提到的,我們的許多通路合作夥伴客戶都有多年協議。當他們這樣做時,我們尊重前幾年的價格。這是另一件可能影響這種關係的事情。
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude the Q&A portion of our call and our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
謝謝。女士們先生們,我們今天的電話會議和會議的問答部分到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。