Federated Hermes Inc (FHI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to the Federated Hermes, Inc. Q4 2024 analyst call and webcast.

問候。歡迎參加 Federated Hermes, Inc. 2024 年第四季分析師電話會議和網路廣播。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Please note, this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the conference over to your host, Ray Hanley, President of Federated Investors Management Company. You may begin.

請注意，本次會議正在錄音。現在，我將會議交給主持人、聯邦投資者管理公司總裁雷漢利 (Ray Hanley)。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Holly. Good morning, and welcome to our call. Leading today's call will be Chris Donahue, Chief Executive Officer and President of Federated Hermes; and Tom Donahue, Chief Financial Officer. Joining us for the Q&A are Saker Nusseibeh who is the CEO of Federated Hermes Limited; and Debbie Cunningham, the Chief Investment Officer for our money markets.

謝謝你，霍莉。早安，歡迎來電。今天的電話會議主持人是 Federated Hermes 的執行長兼總裁 Chris Donahue；以及財務長湯姆·多納休（Tom Donahue）。參加我們問答環節的有 Federated Hermes Limited 的執行長 Saker Nusseibeh；以及我們的貨幣市場首席投資長黛比·坎寧安（Debbie Cunningham）。

During today's call, we will make forward-looking statements, and we want to note that Federated Hermes' actual results may be materially different than the results implied by such statements. Please review the risk disclosures in our SEC filings. No assurance can be given as to future results, and Federated Hermes assumes no duty to update any of these forward-looking statements.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，我們想指出 Federated Hermes 的實際結果可能與此類陳述所暗示的結果有重大差異。請查看我們向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的文件中的風險揭露。我們不能保證未來的結果，並且 Federated Hermes 不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

Chris?

克里斯？

Thank you, Ray. Good morning. I will review Federated Hermes business performance, and Tom will comment on our financial results.

謝謝你，雷。早安.我將審查 Federated Hermes 的業務表現，湯姆將對我們的財務表現發表評論。

We ended 2024 with record assets under management of $830 billion, driven by record money market assets of $630 billion. Now looking first at equities. Assets decreased by $4.2 billion from Q3 due mainly to net redemptions of $2.5 billion and FX impact of $1.3 billion. As mentioned last quarter, net redemptions included $1.5 billion from a sub-advised fund that was internalized by the fund sponsor.

截至 2024 年，我們的管理資產達到創紀錄的 8,300 億美元，這得益於創紀錄的 6,300 億美元的貨幣市場資產。現在先來看股票。資產較第三季減少了 42 億美元，主要原因是淨贖回額為 25 億美元，外匯影響為 13 億美元。正如上個季度所提到的，淨贖回包括由基金發起人內部化的來自次級顧問基金的 15 億美元。

Q4 saw a further improvement in flows from strategic value dividend strategies, both domestic and international. These strategies had Q4 net redemptions of $222 million in the funds and SMA combined, compared to $779 million in Q3. Through January 24, these strategies have had net sales of $139 million.

第四季度，國內和國際戰略價值股利策略的資金流入進一步改善。這些策略在第四季的基金和 SMA 淨贖回額總計為 2.22 億美元，而第三季為 7.79 億美元。截至 1 月 24 日，這些策略的淨銷售額已達 1.39 億美元。

We also saw continued solid performance of flow results from the MDT fundamental quant strategies in Q4, capping off a strong year. MDT strategies topped $13 billion in assets at year-end, up 70% from year-end '23. MDT fund and SMA strategies had $3.4 billion in net sales in 2024, up from $411 million in 2023. These strategies had about $1.2 billion in net sales in Q4, up from $837 million in Q3. Through January 24, these strategies have had net sales of $862 million.

我們也看到 MDT 基本量化策略的流量結果在第四季度繼續表現穩健，為強勁的一年畫上了圓滿的句號。截至年底，MDT 策略資產超過 130 億美元，較 23 年底成長 70%。MDT 基金和 SMA 策略的淨銷售額在 2024 年達到 34 億美元，高於 2023 年的 4.11 億美元。這些策略在第四季的淨銷售額約為 12 億美元，高於第三季的 8.37 億美元。截至 1 月 24 日，這些策略的淨銷售額已達 8.62 億美元。

During the second half of 2024, we expanded the MDT product set by launching four active ETFs and a new collective fund. These funds have assets of approximately $424 million as of January 24. We have had net sales in 14 equity fund strategies during Q4, including MDT mid-cap growth, MDT large-cap growth, US SMID equity usage fund, MDT All Cap Core, and the US Strategic Dividend ETF.

2024 年下半年，我們透過推出四隻主動式 ETF 和一隻新的集合基金擴大了 MDT 產品組合。截至 1 月 24 日，這些基金的資產約為 4.24 億美元。第四季度，我們的 14 種股票基金策略均達到淨銷售額，包括 MDT 中型股成長基金、MDT 大股成長基金、美國 SMID 股票使用基金、MDT 全股核心基金和美國策略性股利 ETF。

Looking at our equity fund performance at the end of '24 and using Morningstar data for the trailing three years, 56% of our equity funds were beating peers and 36% were in the top quartile of their category. For the first three weeks of Q1, combined equity funds, and [SMAs] on the equity side had net sales of $542 million.

回顧我們 24 年底的股票基金表現，並使用晨星過去三年的數據，56% 的股票基金表現優於同行，36% 的股票基金位居同類基金的前四分之一。第一季的前三週，綜合股票基金和股票方面的 [SMA] 淨銷售額為 5.42 億美元。

Now turning to fixed income. Assets decreased by about $2.1 billion in the fourth quarter due mainly to market valuations of about $1 billion and net redemptions of about $950 million. Fixed income funds had Q4 sales of $308 million. Fixed income separate accounts had Q4 net redemptions of $1.3 billion, due mainly to redemptions from a large public entity that has regular sizable inflows and outflows.

現在轉向固定收益。第四季資產減少約 21 億美元，主要原因是市場估值約 10 億美元和淨贖回約 9.5 億美元。固定收益基金第四季銷售額為 3.08 億美元。固定收益獨立帳戶第四季淨贖回額為 13 億美元，主要由於一家擁有定期大量流入和流出的大型公共實體的贖回。

We had 16 fixed income funds with net sales in the fourth quarter, led by Total Return Bond Fund and the government Ultrashort Fund. Regarding performance at the end of '24 and using Morningstar data for trailing three years, 45% of the fixed income funds were beating peers, 18% were in the top quartile of their category.

第四季度，我們有 16 檔固定收益基金實現淨銷售額，其中以總回報債券基金和政府超短期基金領先。就 24 年底的表現而言，使用晨星過去三年的數據，45% 的固定收益基金表現優於同行，18% 的固定收益基金處於同類基金的前四分之一。

For the first three weeks of Q1, combined fixed income funds and SMAs had net redemptions of $28 million. In the alternative private markets category, assets decreased by $1.8 billion in the fourth quarter, mainly due to the impact of FX rates, $1.2 billion, and net redemptions which included approximately $547 million related to the previously discussed senior portfolio manager departure in mid-'24.

第一季的前三週，固定收益基金和 SMA 的淨贖回額總計為 2,800 萬美元。在另類私募市場類別中，第四季資產減少了 18 億美元，主要原因是外匯匯率的影響（12 億美元）和淨贖回（其中包括與先前討論過的 24 年中期高級投資組合經理離職有關的約 5.47 億美元）。

Now we are in the market with our European Direct Lending III, the third vintage of our European direct lending fund. To date, we've closed on approximately $350 million. Target raised, $750 million. For information, EDL I raised about $300 million, EDL II, raised about $640 million.

現在，我們已向市場推出了歐洲直接貸款三期，這是我們的歐洲直接貸款基金的第三個版本。到目前為止，我們已達成約 3.5 億美元交易。目標籌集資金7.5億美元。供參考，EDL I 籌集了約 3 億美元，EDL II 籌集了約 6.4 億美元。

We're also in the market with the Federated Hermes GPE Innovation Fund II, the second vintage of our pan-European growth private equity innovation fund. To date, we've closed on approximately $110 million. The target raise is $300 million, and the first vehicle raised $240 million.

我們也透過 Federated Hermes GPE Innovation Fund II 進入市場，這是我們的泛歐成長私募股權創新基金的第二個版本。到目前為止，我們已達成約 1.1 億美元交易。目標融資額為 3 億美元，首輪融資金額為 2.4 億美元。

We're also working on the European real estate debt fund, a new pooled European debt fund targeting Q1 first close and planning to continue to market in '25, overall target $300 million. We're also launching the private equity -- global private equity co-invest fund the sixth vintage of the PEC series. Target raised $500 million. And PECs I to V raised approximately $400 million to $600 million in each fund.

我們也正在致力於歐洲房地產債務基金，這是一檔新的歐洲集合債務基金，目標是第一季首次募集，並計劃在25年繼續推向市場，總目標為3億美元。我們也將推出私募股權——全球私募股權共同投資基金，這是 PEC 系列的第六個基金。塔吉特籌集了 5 億美元。PEC I至V每個基金籌集了大約4億至6億美元。

Now we began 2025 with about $3.7 billion in net institutional mandates yet to fund, into both funds and separate accounts. Equities expected net additions totaled $1.6 billion, with wins in growth, MDT and global equity.

到 2025 年，我們還剩下約 37 億美元的淨機構授權資金尚未存入基金和獨立帳戶。股票預期淨增加總額為 16 億美元，成長、MDT 和全球股票均有所成長。

Approximately $1.5 billion of net total wins is expected to come into private market strategies, including wins in private equity and direct lending. Fixed income expected net additions totaled about $616 million, with wins in Ultrashort duration and sustainable investment-grade credit and government bonds.

預計約有 15 億美元的淨總收益將來自私募市場策略，包括私募股權和直接貸款的收益。固定收益預期淨增加額總計約 6.16 億美元，超短期和永續投資等級信貸和政府債券表現優異。

Now moving to money markets. We reached another record high for money market fund assets at the end of '24, namely $462 billion, and total money market assets of the aforementioned $630 billion. Total money market assets increased by about $37 billion in Q4 as money market funds added $21 billion and money market separate accounts added $16 billion.

現在轉向貨幣市場。24 年底，貨幣市場基金資產再創歷史新高，達到 4,620 億美元，貨幣市場總資產也達到了上述 6,300 億美元。第四季貨幣市場基金增加 210 億美元，貨幣市場獨立帳戶增加 160 億美元，貨幣市場總資產增加約 370 億美元。

Market sentiment around short-term interest rates indicates a higher for longer view, which is conducive for growth in money market strategies. Higher rates support a positive view of cash as an asset class. Money market strategies in this environment have attractive yields compared to alternatives like bank deposits and direct investments in T-bills and commercial paper. Our estimate of money market mutual fund market share, which includes our sub-advised funds, was about 7.22% at the end of '24, down slightly from about 7.32% at the end of Q3.

短期利率周圍的市場情緒顯示長期前景更高，這有利於貨幣市場策略的成長。較高的利率支持對現金作為一種資產類別的正面看法。在這種環境下，與銀行存款、直接投資國庫券和商業票據等替代方案相比，貨幣市場策略具有具有吸引力的收益率。我們對貨幣市場共同基金市場佔有率的估計（包括我們的子諮詢基金）在 24 年底約為 7.22%，略低於第三季末的 7.32%。

Now looking at recent asset totals as of a few days ago. Managed assets were approximately $839 billion, including $634 billion in money markets, $83 billion in equities, $100 billion in fixed income, $19 billion in alternative private markets and $3 billion in multi-asset. Money market mutual fund assets were at $455 billion.

現在查看幾天前的近期資產總額。管理資產約 8,390 億美元，其中包括 6,340 億美元貨幣市場資產、830 億美元股票資產、1,000 億美元固定收益資產、190 億美元另類私募市場資產以及 30 億美元多種資產資產。貨幣市場共同基金資產為 4,550 億美元。

Tom?

湯姆？

Thanks, Chris. Total revenue for Q4 increased $16.2 million, or 4% from the prior quarter, due mainly to $5.3 million of higher revenue from equity assets and $5.1 million of higher revenue from money market assets. Q4 revenues were reduced by $1.7 million in waivers related to additional fund proxy costs, compared to $5.9 million in fund proxy costs recorded in Q3.

謝謝，克里斯。第四季總收入較上一季增加 1,620 萬美元，增幅 4%，主要由於股權資產收入增加 530 萬美元以及貨幣市場資產收入增加 510 萬美元。由於額外基金代理成本相關的豁免，第四季度收入減少了 170 萬美元，而第三季的基金代理成本為 590 萬美元。

Total Q4 carried interest and performance fees were $4.8 million, compared to $3.5 million in Q3, approximately $3.2 million of the Q4 fees were offset by nearly the same amount of compensation expense. The Q4 sub-advised account redemption that Chris mentioned occurred mid-quarter and impacted Q4 revenues by about $627,000.

第四季的總附帶權益和績效費用為 480 萬美元，而第三季為 350 萬美元，第四季約 320 萬美元的費用被幾乎相同數額的薪酬費用所抵消。Chris 提到的第四季度子建議帳戶贖回發生在季度中期，對第四季度收入影響了約 627,000 美元。

The impact in Q1 and future quarters will be about $1.5 million per quarter. Q4 operating expenses increased by $17.5 million from Q3 due mainly to $13.8 million of FX-related expense increases in the other expense line item as the pound weakened versus the dollar.

第一季及未來幾季的影響將達到每季約 150 萬美元。第四季營運費用較第三季增加了 1,750 萬美元，主要原因是由於英鎊兌美元走弱，其他費用項目中外匯相關費用增加了 1,380 萬美元。

Compensation and related expense was up slightly from Q3 as higher incentive compensation was largely offset by lower severance expense. Advertising and promotion expense increased due mainly to the timing of our advertising campaign spend. The Q4 tax rate of 25.4% was lower than the expected range.

薪資和相關費用較第三季略有上升，因為更高的激勵薪酬在很大程度上被更低的遣散費所抵消。廣告和促銷費用的增加主要是因為我們廣告活動支出的時間安排。第四季稅率為25.4%，低於預期範圍。

We expect the tax rate to be in the 26% to 28% range for 2025. At the end of the year, cash and investments were $641 million. Cash and investments, excluding the portion attributable to noncontrolling interest was $588 million.

我們預計 2025 年的稅率將在 26% 至 28% 之間。截至年底，現金和投資為 6.41 億美元。現金和投資（不包括歸屬於非控制權益的部分）為 5.88 億美元。

Now looking ahead to Q1, certain seasonal factors will impact results. Based on Q4 average asset levels, the impact of fewer days is expected to result in about $9.2 million in lower revenues and about $2 million of lower distribution expenses.

展望第一季度，某些季節性因素將影響結果。根據第四季的平均資產水平，預計週轉天數減少將導致收入減少約 920 萬美元，分銷費用減少約 200 萬美元。

In addition, based on our early assessment, compensation and related expense is expected to be higher than Q4, due primarily to about $7 million of seasonally higher expense for stock compensation and payroll taxes. Of course, these items and others, including incentive compensation, will vary based on multiple factors.

此外，根據我們的早期評估，薪資和相關費用預計將高於第四季度，主要由於股票薪資和薪資稅的季節性增加約 700 萬美元。當然，這些項目和其他項目，包括激勵性薪酬，將根據多種因素而有所不同。

Holly, we would like to open the call up for questions now.

霍莉，我們現在想開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Patrick Davitt, Autonomous Research.

（操作員指令）派崔克·戴維特，自主研究。

Good morning, everyone. I'm going to start with a higher level question on the money market, fund market share, excluding the SMAs. It feels like the SMAs are kind of making up what looks like a little bit of market share loss on the fund side.

大家早安。我將從一個更高層次的問題開始，關於貨幣市場、基金市場份額（不包括 SMA）。感覺 SMA 似乎正在彌補基金方面的一點市場份額損失。

Could you speak to maybe any trends that are going on that would kind of explain why some of the other large money fund complexes, say, at the banks or even other large asset managers like BlackRock are seeing so much higher fund flows, mutual fund flows than you guys? I appreciate that the SMAs are making up for that, but I'm just curious what dynamics you're seeing there and maybe we can't see from our position.

您能否談談現在正在發生的任何趨勢，以解釋為什麼其他一些大型貨幣基金綜合體，例如銀行或其他大型資產管理公司如貝萊德，其基金流量、共同基金流量比你們高得多？我很欣賞 SMA 正在彌補這一點，但我只是好奇您在那裡看到了什麼動態，也許從我們的立場我們看不到。

I'll talk a little bit, Patrick, then Debbie will offer some comments. The first thing is I went back and looked over our market share data for the last three years that we've been giving you every quarter. And you average all those numbers, and it turns out to be between 7.33% and 7.32%.

我會講一點，派崔克，然後黛比會提出一些評論。首先，我回顧了我們每季提供的過去三年的市佔率數據。然後計算所有這些數字的平均值，結果介於 7.33% 和 7.32% 之間。

So looking at it over one quarter where we were at [10th of 1%] less, okay, yes, you can say that's loss of market share. We don't lose any clients in the process. And you see the ebb and flow of big amounts of money from clients. So I don't have any worries about losing market share. I'll let Debbie give you a better pulse of the marketplace response.

因此，從我們的一個季度的銷售額下降了 [1% 的 1/10] 來看，是的，你可以說這是市場份額的損失。在此過程中我們不會失去任何客戶。你會看到客戶的大量資金不斷湧入。所以我並不擔心失去市場佔有率。我會讓黛比給你更了解市場反應。

Thanks, Chris. And I apologize if there's any background noise. But ultimately, I agree 100% with everything that Chris just said. The market share loss is not a loss in the context of clients. It may just be some large flows at year end, which is one of our most volatile times of the year.

謝謝，克里斯。如果有任何背景噪音，我深感抱歉。但最終，我完全同意克里斯剛才所說的一切。市場佔有率的損失並不是客戶的損失。這可能只是年底的一些大額流量，而年底是我們一年中最動蕩的時期之一。

What I would say and kind of defensive that position is that, generally speaking, the first quarter of every year on a cyclical basis tends to be the worst from a mutual fund flow basis. And we're not seeing that this year. Now maybe that will change. We're only one month into the first quarter. But ultimately, we think that's a very positive trend.

我想說的是，並且為這一立場辯護的是，一般來說，從共同基金流量來看，每年的第一季往往是週期性最差的。但我們今年沒有看到這種情況。現在情況或許會改變。第一季才剛過一個月。但最終，我們認為這是一個非常正面的趨勢。

Helpful. Thanks. And then as a quick follow-up, obviously, rebuilding a fairly large cash balance. Stock price has been range bound, but you ratcheted down the repurchase quite a bit. So maybe update us on how you're thinking about repurchases through the lens of the range-bound price and now much higher cash balance again?

很有幫助。謝謝。然後，作為快速的後續行動，顯然是重建相當大的現金餘額。股價一直在區間波動，但你卻大幅減少了回購。那麼，您能否從區間價格和現在更高的現金餘額的角度，向我們介紹一下您對回購的看法？

Well, Patrick, looking backwards, ratchet down, okay, we were buying the stock as it was going up. And then right as soon as we weren't allowed to buy anymore, the stock went down. And these are all fit into our models of which tell us that because of our belief in the growth of the firm, the price is still significantly under value.

好吧，帕特里克，回顧過去，向下調整，好吧，我們在股票上漲時買入。然後，當我們不被允許再買時，股票就下跌了。這些都符合我們的模型，模型告訴我們，由於我們相信公司的成長，價格仍然明顯低於價值。

So we have to do two things. Look at it on a high level and say, should we be buying stock? The answer to that is yes. And then we get every day to get to decide, okay, is today, better to buy, or tomorrow, better to buy. And I think that's really how we would characterize the quarter, which I don't really view ratcheted down, and we expect to buy in 2025.

因此我們必須做兩件事。從高層次來看，我們應該買股票嗎？答案是肯定的。然後我們每天都要決定，今天買，還是明天買。我認為這就是我們對本季的真正描述，我並不認為本季的銷量會下降，我們預計將在 2025 年購買。

Ken Worthington, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的肯‧沃辛頓。

This is Michael Cho, I'm in for Ken today. I just wanted to follow up on the money market discussion. You called out the change in rate backdrop in your opening remarks in a higher for longer rates. And I guess, do you envision flows strengthening from here for your money fund business, and I think that you called out the start of the year seems to be strong on the mutual fund side.

我是麥可‧趙 (Michael Cho)，今天由我代替肯 (Ken) 出席。我只是想跟進貨幣市場的討論。您在開場白中提到了利率背景的變化，即長期利率將更高。我想，您是否預計從現在起您的貨幣基金業務的資金流會增強，我認為您所說的今年年初共同基金方面的表現似乎很強勁。

And so I guess I'm just trying to understand or better appreciate how you envision the money fund business here and the higher for longer backdrop as well as maybe some of your Ultrashort products as well, which seem to make up a considerable portion of the business.

所以我想我只是想了解或更好地欣賞您如何設想這裡的貨幣基金業務和更高的長期背景以及可能還有一些超短期產品，這些似乎構成了業務的相當大一部分。

Well, once again, we'll double team that answer. I'll go first. When you have rates as they are and going down and having a better relationship to the deposit rates, we believe the retail trade continues to be a very, very good trade. The institutional trade is available for institutions that are doing things not exactly for getting the extra basis point. So to us, that means we still have a positive attitude about the money fund business.

好吧，再次，我們將雙人回答這個問題。我先走了。當利率維持現狀並且下降，且與存款利率的關係更加融洽時，我們相信零售貿易將繼續成為非常非常好的交易。機構交易適用於那些做事不完全是為了取得額外基點的機構。所以對我們來說，這意味著我們仍然對貨幣基金業務持正面態度。

To an owner operator, even though the rates didn't drop so fast that you created a big push for institutional business, even though that didn't happen to an owner operator, this is still a great time for money funds because they are a great advantage in the marketplace. And that's why I said it gives a lot of credence to cash as an asset class. And remember, and I've said this before. If you have a five handle, it's total Nirvana. If you have a four handle, it's delightful on a money fund.

對於業主經營者來說，即使利率下降的速度沒有那麼快，從而對機構業務產生很大的推動作用，即使這種情況沒有發生在業主經營者身上，但這對貨幣基金來說仍然是一個好時機，因為它們在市場上具有巨大的優勢。這就是為什麼我說它給予現金作為資產類別很大的信任。請記住，我以前就說過這件事。若有五柄，則徹底底涅槃。如果你有四個手柄，那麼貨幣基金就很令人愉快了。

At a three handle the clients are still quite sanguine about being there. But the war is still between the adviser who's worried about messing up and trying to convince the customer to maybe move up. Then you have in the marketplace, a lot of people recognizing that cash deserves more than a 10 or 20 or 100 basis point type return. And that comes from a lot of factors, competitive, legal, regulatory, et cetera. So that sets a good stage for our business.

在三個手把的幫助下，客戶仍然非常樂觀。但戰爭仍然發生在擔心搞砸事情的顧問和試圖說服客戶升級的顧問之間。然後，在市場上，許多人意識到現金值得獲得超過 10、20 或 100 個基點的回報。這源自於很多因素，競爭、法律、監管等等。這為我們的業務奠定了良好的基礎。

Debbie?

黛比？

I wholeheartedly agree. I think maybe a couple of things to add with regard to that. When you look at the expected terminal rate in the current environment versus where it was six months ago in the second -- in the latter half of 2024, it's 50 basis points higher, it's substantially higher.

我完全同意。我認為也許關於這一點還有幾點需要補充。當您將目前環境下的預期終端利率與六個月前（即 2024 年下半年）的預期終端利率進行比較時，會發現它高出了 50 個基點，大幅高出。

And the expectations with what might happen from an inflationary standpoint, the stickiness of it, from a growth standpoint with the new administration's policies, I think, again, allow us to be very comfortable that the Nirvana maybe doesn't start to happen again. I'm not a believer of a tightening later in the year, although there are some in the market that are, but the delightful aspect of it, I think, is still there.

而從通膨的角度預期可能發生的情況，以及從成長的角度預期新政府的政策的黏性，我認為，這些讓我們非常放心，涅槃可能不會再次發生。我並不相信今年稍後會出現緊縮政策，儘管市場上有些人相信，但我認為，它的令人愉悅的一面仍然存在。

And ultimately, when you have additional users that have come into the market over the course of the last two-plus years, they're not leaving. And more than likely, they're going to increase their balances because their own cash is increasing from a standpoint of their balance sheet and what they're receiving with a good economic backdrop to have invested in this asset class.

最終，當過去兩年多的時間裡有更多用戶進入市場時，他們不會離開。而且更有可能的是，他們會增加餘額，因為從他們的資產負債表的角度來看，他們自己的現金正在增加，而且在良好的經濟背景下，他們可以投資於這個資產類別。

So our outlook continues to be maybe not percentage growth that exceeds what we saw in 2023 and '24, but certainly continued substantial growth in the sector.

因此，我們的展望可能不是百分比增長超過 2023 年和 2024 年的水平，但該行業肯定會繼續大幅增長。

Great, thanks for all that color. If I could just switch gears for a second. I just want to touch on ESG and your very sustainable -- sustainability funds, I mean with seemingly less focused on broader ESG products in recent years and maybe even more so now. Can you just kind of remind us and talk through how some of your ESG and sustainability products like Global Equity or Global ESG and various impact funds might be positioned in the market in the years ahead?

太棒了，感謝這些色彩。如果我可以換個話題的話。我只想談談 ESG 和非常永續的永續發展基金，我的意思是，近年來似乎不再那麼關注更廣泛的 ESG 產品，而現在可能更重視了。您能否提醒我們並談談未來幾年您的一些 ESG 和永續性產品（例如全球股票或全球 ESG 以及各種影響力基金）在市場上的定位？

I will talk about that from the point of view of the acquisition and a broader element than the questions you're asking. Saker and Debbie will comment on those funds.

我將從收購的角度以及比你提出的問題更廣泛的角度來談論這個問題。Saker 和 Debbie 將對這些基金發表評論。

When we did the Hermes acquisition back in '18, we had already decanted through a lot of good legal work that you can say yes to fiduciaries while using ESG so long as you are focused on the risk reward, and the returns to the underlying investor.

當我們在 2018 年收購 Hermes 時，我們已完成大量良好的法律工作，只要您關注風險回報和基礎投資者的回報，您就可以在使用 ESG 的同時對受託人說「是」。

And therefore, we continue doing that because these are good tools, additional information and analysis that assist portfolio managers and teams in making investment decisions. And this is what we still believe.

因此，我們會繼續這樣做，因為這些都是很好的工具、額外的資訊和分析，可以幫助投資組合經理和團隊做出投資決策。我們依然堅信這一點。

Now I'll let Saker comment on some of the funds that you mentioned.

現在我請Saker對您提到的一些基金進行評論。

Thank you, Chris. So just to reiterate an essential point about how one uses the terms. At the old Hermes, which is Federated Hermes Limited, we have always used ESG as a factor as part of our sustainability study to help us achieve better financial return in the long term.

謝謝你，克里斯。因此，我只是想重申如何使用這些術語的一個要點。在舊的 Hermes，即 Federated Hermes Limited，我們一直將 ESG 作為我們可持續發展研究的一個因素，以幫助我們在長期內實現更好的財務回報。

Now we also live in a different part of the world with different market expectations and different requirements. And there are some people in Europe who also want specific funds which are not just aiming for outright returns but aiming for specific outcomes. We do not consider these to be mainstream ESG funds. We consider these to be thematic funds.

現在我們也生活在世界的不同地區，有著不同的市場預期和不同的要求。歐洲也有一些人希望成立專款，這些基金不只是追求直接的回報，而是追求特定的成果。我們不認為這些是主流的 ESG 基金。我們認為這些是主題基金。

Then going back to answering your question. As far as the main funds, global ESG, for example, that continues to do well and it continues to see interest from clients because ultimately, clients either buying it because performance is good or because they want to double materiality, which for them is important.

然後回頭回答你的問題。就主要基金而言，例如全球 ESG，其表現繼續良好，並繼續受到客戶的興趣，因為最終，客戶要么因為表現良好而購買它，要么因為他們希望加倍重要性，這對他們來說很重要。

If you look at the same thing in our fixed income funds, the SDG Fixed Income Fund continues to see interest. If you look at the thematic funds, these have ebbs and flows depending on what the advisers in Europe are advising the clients to go into the funds. And of course, are affected with the risk on risk of element.

如果您在我們的固定收益基金中看到相同的情況，那麼 SDG 固定收益基金將繼續受到關注。如果你看主題基金，你會發現這些基金的漲跌取決於歐洲顧問建議客戶投資基金的內容。當然，也會受到各種因素的風險影響。

The lack of -- the strength of flows, we've seen this come back. But in the last year or so had more to do with the risk off sentiment in Europe than it did with the fund specifically. So as far as we're concerned, the funds are doing seat the clients want.

我們看到，由於缺乏流動性，這種情況又出現了。但在過去一年左右的時間裡，這與歐洲的避險情緒有關，而不是與基金本身有關。所以就我們而言，這些資金正滿足客戶的需求。

They're giving back the returns exactly as the clients want and they abide by what the regulators want, both here and in the US, because they are fulfilling the fiduciary duty of trying to achieve the best financial outcome with the exception of very specific thematic funds sold in Europe for specific outcomes.

他們返還的收益完全符合客戶的要求，而且他們遵守監管機構的要求，無論是在英國還是在美國，因為他們正在履行受託責任，努力實現最佳財務結果，但在歐洲為特定結果而出售的非常特定的主題基金除外。

Dan Fannon, Jefferies.

丹‧範農 (Dan Fannon)，傑富瑞 (Jefferies)。

This is [Trevor Doug] on for Dan. For my first question, can you speak to the priorities of spending into 2025 and where it's differing from last year? And how we should think about the rate of growth for those investments?

我是 [Trevor Doug]，為 Dan 播音。我的第一個問題，您能談談 2025 年的支出重點以及與去年有何不同嗎？我們該如何看待這些投資的成長率？

Sure. The -- I think I've already addressed comp, at least for the first quarter compensation because of the payroll and bonus and recalibrating incentive comp, at least first quarter wise and into the future there. If things are going great, we'll be paying more there.

當然。我認為我已經解決了薪酬問題，至少是第一季的薪酬問題，因為工資和獎金以及重新調整激勵薪酬，至少是第一季以及未來的薪酬問題。如果一切進展順利，我們就會付出更多。

Same thing on the distribution side. We reflected that less days in Q1 will knock that down a little bit, but that's on an asset basis from the fourth quarter. If -- and we expect to raise more assets, the distribution line will go up.

分銷方面也發生同樣的事情。我們認為，第一季的天數減少會使這一數字略有下降，但這是基於第四季的資產基礎。如果－我們預期籌集更多資產，分配線將會上升。

On the systems and communication lines, I would say we expect to have a step up there. Somewhere around -- on a quarterly basis, about $3 million, and that would be into each quarter into the future, and that's market data and technology spending related. And the rest of the areas, I really don't have much change expectation. Of course, the other line, the infamous other line with FX.

在系統和通訊線路方面，我想說我們希望能更上一層樓。大約——按季度計算，大約 300 萬美元，這將計入未來每個季度，這與市場數據和技術支出有關。對於其餘領域，我確實不抱持太多變化的期望。當然，還有另一條線路，臭名昭著的帶有 FX 的另一條線路。

And remember, we are hedging our expenses in London. And so when we get -- the pound goes down, it doesn't really affect us because then we pay less pounds over for our expenses in London. So over a year basis, it doesn't -- we're hedged basically.

請記住，我們正在倫敦規避我們的開支。所以，當英鎊貶值時，這並不會真正影響到我們，因為我們在倫敦的開支支付的英鎊就會減少。因此，從一年來看，情況並非如此 - 我們基本上進行了對沖。

I can't control the nonoperating line with our seed money and whether that goes up or down and the tax. We -- I think we already addressed the tax line. The reason why it was up -- I'm sorry, the reason why the tax rate was down a little bit was because the stock price was up. And so as we had vestings that caused the tax rate to go down, so that was a benefit.

我無法控制我們的種子資金的非營業線，也無法控制其上漲或下跌以及稅收。我們 — — 我認為我們已經解決了稅務問題。稅率上漲的原因——抱歉，稅率略有下降的原因是因為股價上漲了。因此，由於我們的歸屬導致稅率下降，所以這是一個好處。

Great. I appreciate the color there. And then for my follow-up, on alternative products, the overall market interest has been pretty strong. Are there certain areas of the firm you guys view as subscale? And what specific areas would you guys like to invest in, or areas or regions?

偉大的。我很欣賞那裡的色彩。然後就我的後續關注而言，對於替代產品，整體市場興趣一直非常強烈。你們認為公司的某些領域是否不具規模？你們想在哪些具體領域、地區或區域進行投資？

Would you please repeat that? It got garbled.

請問你可以再說一次嗎？它變得混亂了。

Yeah, yeah. So on alternative products, the overall market interest has been pretty strong. What areas within the firm are view to subscale? And are there specific areas or regions that you guys are looking to expand?

是啊是啊。因此，對於替代產品，整體市場興趣相當濃厚。公司內哪些領域屬於子規模範圍？你們是否希望擴展特定的領域或區域？

Okay. Yes, there are a couple of areas that are interesting to us that are subscale. One would be infrastructure where we're interested in improving that situation. And then another one is in real estate, where we don't do any of it in the US.

好的。是的，有幾個我們感興趣的領域都是不屬於規模的。一是基礎設施，我們有興趣改善這種情況。另一個是房地產，我們在美國沒有做任何房地產業務。

And we've talked about that on these calls for a number of times where we would be willing to expand to be able to do the kinds of things that Chris Taylor and his team have done on the UK side, especially with King's Cross, Paradise Circus, and Birmingham and other places, to do those kinds of regeneration projects in the US.

我們在電話會議中多次談到這一點，我們願意擴大規模，以便能夠做克里斯泰勒和他的團隊在英國所做的事情，特別是與國王十字站、天堂馬戲團、伯明翰和其他地方合作，在美國做這類重建項目。

So those would be to where I would say we'd love to get past or get greater size and activity. The ones where, even though, we may be small like in direct lending, it's a couple of billion, but we still have great opportunities, as I've mentioned. And on the PE side, we're looking at very good opportunities with the numbers that I mentioned. I don't have to go over them again.

所以我想說，我們希望能夠超越這些，或獲得更大的規模和活動。儘管我們的直接貸款規模可能很小，只有幾十億美元，但正如我所提到的那樣，我們仍然有很大的機會。在 PE 方面，我們根據我提到的數字尋找到了非常好的機會。我沒必要再重複這些事。

So we're pretty strong there. Another one, depending on how you count it, is trade finance, which is the short end of private credit. And there's a lot of interest in that across the globe. I was out with clients in Hong Kong and Singapore two weeks ago, and this is a very, very interesting opportunity on the trade finance side. And so that's another one where, again, it's about $2 billion, but we've got good records, good projects and good opportunities with clients.

所以我們在這方面相當強大。另一個，取決於你如何計算，是貿易融資，這是私人信貸的短端。全球各地對此都有濃厚興趣。兩週前我和香港和新加坡的客戶一起出去了，這對貿易融資方面來說是一個非常非常有趣的機會。這是另一個，再次，大約 20 億美元，但我們擁有良好的記錄、好的項目和與客戶的良好機會。

Robin Holby, TD Cowen.

羅賓霍爾比（Robin Holby），TD Cowen。

This is Robin Holby on for Bill Cass. Follow-up on the last private markets question. Just given capital markets activity is accelerating, what is your near-term outlook for realizations in the portfolio? And when do you expect the fundraising, with respect to the funds that you mentioned, that start to offset these distributions?

這是羅賓霍爾比 (Robin Holby)，取代比爾卡斯 (Bill Cass)。跟進上一個私人市場問題。鑑於資本市場活動正在加速，您對投資組合的短期實現前景如何？就您提到的基金而言，您預計何時籌集的資金可以開始抵銷這些分配？

I'm going to let Saker take a swing at that pitch.

我要讓 Saker 揮棒擊打那球。

Thank you, Chris. So the answer is we are distributing as we speak and raising assets as we speak. The whole point about having PEC VI following PEC I to V, is as PEC V pays out PEC VI comes in and raises new capital. It's the nature of capital markets. If you look at direct lending, we paid off a debt, actually, that's money getting back to the investors.

謝謝你，克里斯。所以答案是，我們一邊說話一邊分配，一邊籌措資產。PEC VI 跟隨 PEC I 到 V 的全部意義在於，當 PEC V 支付時，PEC VI 會加入並籌集新資本。這就是資本市場的本質。如果你看直接貸款，我們已經還清了債務，實際上，這是返還給投資者的錢。

We raised more money to take its place. So the same can be said within that. In direct lending, we're now in EDL 3. Now of course, again, as these mature, we will be paying back. So I would say we're in a balance where we're replenishing the assets that we pay back. And actually, I think I'm making more than that, and we're in exactly where we are in the cycle.

我們籌集了更多資金來取代它。在這方面也可以這樣說。在直接貸款方面，我們目前處於 EDL 3。當然，隨著這些債務的到期，我們將會償還。因此我想說，我們處於一種平衡狀態，我們正在補充我們償還的資產。事實上，我認為我賺的更多，而且我們正處於週期的這個階段。

And of course, returning assets to the clients is a sign of success because it shows that we have made the success of whether it's in private equity, whether it's infrastructure, whether it's in direct lending. So returning assets to the client is a sign of success and then triggers more flows coming our way.

當然，將資產返還給客戶是一種成功的標誌，因為這表明我們取得了成功，無論是在私募股權、基礎設施還是直接貸款領域。因此，將資產回饋給客戶是成功的標誌，並會引發更多的流量流入我們。

So we're in the midst of the cycle, and we're pleased with what we're seeing. And more importantly, our clients are pleased with what we're seeing and coming up to re-up a lot of the money that we raised are re-ups from old clients across our strategies, which tells you we're in a good place.

因此，我們正處於週期之中，我們對所看到的情況感到滿意。更重要的是，我們的客戶對我們所看到的情況感到滿意，我們籌集的大量資金都來自我們各個策略中的老客戶，這說明我們處於良好的狀態。

I hope that answers the question.

我希望這能回答這個問題。

John Dunn, Evercore ISI.

約翰‧鄧恩 (John Dunn)，Evercore ISI。

Great to see strategic value dividend improving and flipping positive so far this year. But can you kind of contextualize how people think about that fund and the demand for it given the backdrop of markets and rates?

很高興看到今年迄今為止戰略價值股息不斷改善並轉為正值。但您能否在市場和利率背景下闡述人們對該基金及其需求的看法？

Yeah. The way people -- the way this product is presented is that the dividend fund with an idea towards growing dividends. A lot of times, historically, because this fund will be either at the top of the chart or the bottom of the chart because it doesn't belong in the class where the charts put it, people will tend to buy it because it's at the top of the chart. Not for the right reason that it's a dividend fund looking for growth in dividends.

是的。人們呈現該產品的方式是，股息基金旨在增加股息。從歷史上看，很多時候，由於這檔基金要么位於圖表的頂部，要么位於圖表的底部，因為它不屬於圖表所處的類別，因此人們會傾向於購買它，因為它位於圖表的頂部。原因不正確，因為它是一檔尋求股息成長的股息基金。

One of the interesting things about the dynamic here is that even when the fund last year was in negative flows, the strategic dividend ETF was gaining traction. And so someone buying that particular aspect of strategic dividend shows you that they understand that it is a dividend fund.

這裡動態的一個有趣之處是，即使去年該基金出現負流量，戰略股息 ETF 仍在獲得關注。因此，有人購買戰略股息的這一特定部分，表明他們明白這是一個股息基金。

So today, many of the people coming in are looking at this as a stepping stone into the market. You get a good yield and yet you do participate in the market. And if there's a broadening out, you get paid a dividend along the way. And so this fund is turning up pretty good numbers right now.

因此今天，許多進入該市場的人將此視為進入該市場的墊腳石。您獲得了豐厚的收益，而且您確實參與了市場。如果業務範圍擴大，那麼您就會獲得股息。所以這個基金現在的業績相當不錯。

Got it. And then -- is there any kind of chunky institutional mandates you could point to that might be at risk? And then just more broadly, what areas of institutional are you worried could be at risk?

知道了。然後—您是否可以指出有哪些類型的繁瑣的機構任務可能有風險？那麼更廣泛地說，您擔心機構的哪些領域可能面臨風險？

Well, the first thing is on the institutional side, we're on a short leash everywhere. And so it's everybody. Basically, even though the institutions say they're there for however long, they have the right to pull the money any time for any reason or for no reason. So I can't say that we're not at risk anywhere. And but it's not like the kind of risk you're talking about, where we're worried about losing something, but I'm going to let Ray talk about that for a second.

嗯，首先從制度方面來說，我們在各方面都受到嚴格控制。每個人都是如此。基本上，即使這些機構表示他們會在那裡待多久，但他們都有權隨時以任何理由或無理由撤回資金。所以我不能說我們沒有面臨任何危險。但這不像您談論的那種風險，我們擔心會失去一些東西，但我會讓雷談論這個。

Sure, John. When we give our pipeline numbers, so the [$3.8 million], that's net of any known redemptions coming through the institutional side, which could be in a separate account or in a fund, sometimes they're using funds. And the known redemptions were very, very low this quarter. We have very -- we don't have really visibility to any material redemptions on the institutional side. Now as Chris says, I mean, that can always change.

當然，約翰。當我們給出我們的管道數字時，即 [380 萬美元]，這是扣除任何已知的來自機構方面的贖回後的淨額，這些贖回可能在一個單獨的帳戶中，也可能在一個基金中，有時他們會使用基金。本季已知的贖回量非常非常低。我們確實沒有看到機構方面有任何實質的贖回。正如克里斯所說，我的意思是，這總是可以改變的。

And then you have clients like we talked about, the large public entity that on a regular basis, they may not tell us there's a redemption coming, but they have cash come in and they use cash. And so you have those kind of swings. But at this point, in terms of visibility, there's not anything material out there on -- from an outflow standpoint.

然後你就會有像我們談到的客戶，大型公共實體，他們可能不會定期告訴我們有贖回即將發生，但他們有現金進來並且使用現金。所以你就會有那種波動。但就目前情況而言，從可見性來看，從流出角度來看，還沒有任何實質的內容。

On the other hand, the inflow pipeline continues to build, in particular for the NDT strategies, which have, as noted in the remarks, really accelerated in terms of gross sales, net sales, asset growth, getting strong institutional interest they make up the big increase we had in our equity pipeline wins for the institutional side that was driven by MDT, and we have a bunch of other ones that are bubbling around that aren't in that number yet that we're very optimistic about some of those being of good size.

另一方面，流入渠道繼續建立，特別是對於 NDT 策略而言，正如評論中指出的那樣，這些策略在總銷售額、淨銷售額、資產增長、獲得強烈機構興趣方面確實加速，它們彌補了我們在由 MDT 推動的機構方面股權渠道勝利的大幅增長，我們還有許多其他正在醞釀的策略，雖然數量還不到這個水平，但我們對其中一些策略的規模非常樂觀。

We have reached the end of the question-and-answer session, and I will now turn the call over to Ray for closing remarks.

問答環節已經結束，現在我將把發言權交給雷，請他作結束語。

Thank you, Holly. That concludes our call. Thank you for joining us today.

謝謝你，霍莉。我們的通話到此結束。感謝您今天加入我們。

Thank you. This does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。現在您可以斷開您的線路。感謝您的參與。