Franklin BSP Realty Trust Inc (FBRT) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the Franklin BSP Realty Trust Fourth Quarter 2023 earnings conference call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question. You may press star, then one on your touchtone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Please note this event is being recorded. I would like now to turn the conference over to Lindsey Crabbe Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

美好的一天，歡迎參加富蘭克林 BSP 房地產信託 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。所有參與者將處於僅聽模式。如果您需要協助，請按星號鍵和零向會議專家發出訊號。今天的演講結束後，將有機會提問。問一個問題。您可以按星號，然後按按鍵式電話上的一個。若要撤回您的問題，請按星號然後按兩顆。請注意此事件正在被記錄。我現在想將會議交給投資者關係總監林賽·克拉布 (Lindsey Crabbe)。請繼續。

Good morning. Thank you, Alan, for hosting our call today. Welcome to the Franklin BSP Realty Trust Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 earnings conference call. With me on the call today are Richard Byrne, Chairman and CEO of FBRT., Jerry Baglein, our Chief Financial Officer and Chief Operating Officer of FERD., and Michael Camparato, President of FBRT.

早安.謝謝艾倫今天主持我們的電話會議。歡迎參加富蘭克林 BSP 房地產信託 2023 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。今天與我一起參加電話會議的有 FBRT. 董事長兼執行長 Richard Byrne、FERD. 財務長兼營運長 Jerry Baglein 以及 FBRT 總裁 Michael Camparato。

Before we begin, I want to mention that some of today's comments are forward-looking statements and are based on certain assumptions. Those comments and assumptions are subject to inherent risks and uncertainties as described in our most recently filed SEC periodic reports and actual future results may differ materially. The information conveyed on this call is current only as of the date of this call, February 15, 2024 company assumes no obligation to update any statements made during this call, including any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, except as required by law.

在開始之前，我想提一下，今天的一些評論是前瞻性陳述，並且基於某些假設。這些評論和假設受到我們最近提交的 SEC 定期報告中所述的固有風險和不確定性的影響，未來的實際結果可能會存在重大差異。本次電話會議傳達的訊息僅截至本次電話會議之日有效，2024 年2 月15 日，本公司不承擔更新本次電話會議期間所做的任何聲明的義務，包括任何前瞻性聲明，無論是由於新資訊、未來的結果事件或其他情況，法律要求的除外。

Additionally, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures, which are reconciled to GAAP figures in our earnings release and supplementary slide deck, each of which are available on our website at w. w. w. dot FBRT. reit.com. We will refer to the supplementary slide deck on today's call. And with that, I'll turn the call over to Rich burns.

此外，我們將參考某些非 GAAP 財務指標，這些指標與我們的收益發布和補充幻燈片中的 GAAP 數據一致，每一項都可以在我們的網站 w. w。 w。點FBRT。房地產投資信託基金.com。我們將在今天的電話會議上參考補充幻燈片。接下來，我會將電話轉給里奇·伯恩斯。

Perfect. Thanks, Lindsay, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I'm Rich Byrne, Chairman and CEO of SBRT. As Lindsay mentioned, our earnings release and supplemental deck were published to our website yesterday, so we're going to begin today's call by reviewing our fourth quarter results, and then we're going to open up the call for your questions.

完美的。謝謝林賽，大家早安，謝謝你們今天加入我們。我是 SBRT 董事長兼執行長 Rich Byrne。正如Lindsay 所提到的，我們的收益發布和補充資料昨天已發佈到我們的網站上，因此我們將通過回顧我們第四季度的業績來開始今天的電話會議，然後我們將開始電話會議詢問您的問題。

I'm going to begin on slide 4 for the year ended 2023 FBRT. had distributable earnings per fully converted share of $1.92. This is a 79% year-over-year increase and equates to a 12.1% distributable earnings return on common equity. Our distributable earnings dividend coverage for 2023 for the full year was 135% in the fourth quarter FDRT. had distributable earnings of $0.39 per fully converted share, representing an almost 10% return on common equity. Our distributable earnings dividend coverage was 109% for the quarter. Our earnings were modestly lower in the fourth quarter versus the third quarter of this past year. The difference was due to the timing of minimum interest payment. Our portfolio ended the year at $5 billion, reflecting net portfolio growth of $84 million in Q4. We have been steadily originating it every quarter throughout 2023. And in total, we originated $818 million of new loan commitments for the year, and our portfolio remains heavily focused in multi-family with 77% of our exposure in this sector. We ended the quarter with $1.5 billion in available liquidity. Unrestricted cash decreased slightly to $338 million due to our net origination activity with first excuse me, with 5.7% of our total assets in unrestricted cash. We are not just playing defense. We are actively working to deploy capital, and we are originating very attractive investments that we believe will be meaningfully accretive to our earnings with many other lenders on the sideline, we have been able to build a robust pipeline, which you will hear more about shortly from Mike, an area we want to provide more details on today is our watch list and General CECL Reserve. We ended the quarter with six loans on our watch list versus three loans at the end of Q3. Each watch list loan is rated four. Subsequent to quarter end, we took title to one of the watch list loans and have already liquidated it at a modest gain to our basis, meaning that our six watchlist loans are now down to five or 4.3% of our total portfolio. Mike will provide more watchlist detail in his comments, including our definition of how we characterize a four rated loan, which may be more conservative versus many of our peers. The risk profile of our portfolio is relatively low, with almost 95% of our loans rated a three or better average overall risk rating of 2.3 at the end of the quarter. Our focus on originating newer vintage high QUALITY multifamily loans continues to deliver stable performance for the vast majority of our portfolio at quarter end, we held three foreclosure REO positions, representing 2% of our total assets. Most of the balance of our foreclosure of REO was our Walgreens retail portfolio, which we are marketing for sale. Mike will also provide some detail on our REO positions during his commentary. No asset-specific CECL charges were incurred in Q4, but we increased our General CECL Reserve by $5.4 million. Overall, our CECL reserve is 96 basis points of our total portfolio, which we believe is conservative given our portfolio's strong credit quality and the multifamily focus that we have. Gary will provide more details on the calculation of our CECL estimate in his section, which we'll get up to shortly.

我將從投影片 4 開始介紹截至 2023 年的 FBRT。完全轉換後每股可分配收益為 1.92 美元。年增 79%，相當於普通股可分配收益報酬率為 12.1%。在第四季 FDRT 中，我們 2023 年全年可分配的收益股利覆蓋率為 135%。每完全轉換股的可分配收益為 0.39 美元，相當於普通股報酬率近 10%。本季我們的可分配收益股利覆蓋率為 109%。與去年第三季相比，我們第四季的營收略有下降。差異是由於最低利息支付的時間造成的。我們的投資組合年底達到 50 億美元，反映出第四季投資組合淨成長 8,400 萬美元。在整個 2023 年，我們每個季度都會穩定地推出它。今年我們總共發放了 8.18 億美元的新貸款承諾，我們的投資組合仍然主要集中在多戶住宅，77% 的投資集中在該領域。本季結束時，我們的可用流動資金為 15 億美元。由於我們的淨發起活動，非限制性現金略有下降至 3.38 億美元，首先請原諒，我們總資產的 5.7% 是非限制性現金。我們不只是防守。我們正在積來自 Mike，我們今天想提供更多詳細資訊的領域是我們的觀察名單和一般 CECL 儲備。本季結束時，我們的觀察名單上有六筆貸款，而第三季末有三筆貸款。每筆觀察名單貸款的評級為四級。季度末後，我們獲得了其中一筆觀察名單貸款的所有權，並已以我們基礎上的適度收益將其清算，這意味著我們的六筆觀察名單貸款現已降至我們總投資組合的5 或4.3 %。麥克將在他的評論中提供更多觀察列表詳細信息，包括我們對如何描述四級貸款的定義，與我們的許多同行相比，這可能更加保守。我們投資組合的風險狀況相對較低，截至本季末，我們近 95% 的貸款平均整體風險評級為 3 或更高，為 2.3。我們專注於發放更新的優質多戶貸款，在季度末繼續為我們的絕大多數投資組合帶來穩定的業績，我們持有三個止贖 REO 頭寸，占我們總資產的 2%。我們取消贖回權的 REO 的大部分餘額是我們的沃爾格林零售投資組合，我們正在行銷出售。Mike 還將在評論中提供有關我們 REO 立場的一些詳細資訊。第四季沒有產生特定於資產的 CECL 費用，但我們將一般 CECL 儲備金增加了 540 萬美元。總體而言，我們的 CECL 準備金占我們總投資組合的 96 個基點，考慮到我們投資組合強大的信用品質和我們對多戶家庭的關注，我們認為這是保守的。加里將在他的部分中提供有關我們的 CECL 估計計算的更多詳細信息，我們很快就會介紹這一點。

Finally, FBRT.'s buyback authorization had under $36 million remaining at the end of the quarter. We purchased $3.3 million of FBRT. common stock during the fourth quarter and $12.5 million throughout 2023. In total, since our program began, the company and its adviser purchased $64 million of FERT. common stock. We continued to be active in the first quarter of 24 2024 of this year for purchasing approximately $1.6 million of our common stock through February 13th. Our Company buyback all is authorized through the end of 2024.

最後，截至本季末，FBRT. 的回購授權還剩不到 3,600 萬美元。我們買了 330 萬美元的 FBRT。第四季普通股和 2023 年全年 1,250 萬美元。自我們的計劃開始以來，該公司及其顧問總共購買了 6,400 萬美元的 FERT。普通股。我們在 2024 年第一季繼續積極行動，截至 2 月 13 日購買了約 160 萬美元的普通股。我們公司的回購全部已獲授權，截止日期為 2024 年底。

Lastly, we are pleased with FERT. strong performance in 2023. Our earnings comfortably covered our dividend and produced a competitive risk-adjusted return, and we expect our earnings power to be enhanced as we grow our portfolio in 2024. We remain confident and resilience of our assets in our portfolio, we have ample liquidity, and we are singularly focused on delivering long-term shareholder value.

最後，我們對 FERT 感到滿意。 2023 年表現強勁。我們的收益輕鬆涵蓋了股息，並產生了具有競爭力的風險調整回報，我們預計隨著 2024 年投資組合的擴大，我們的獲利能力將會增強。我們對投資組合中的資產保持信心和彈性，我們擁有充足的流動性，我們特別專注於提供長期股東價值。

With that, I'll stop there and I'll turn things over to Jerry to discuss our financial results. Over to you, Jerry.

到目前為止，我將把事情交給傑瑞討論我們的財務表現。交給你了，傑瑞。

Great. Thanks, Rich. I'm Jerry Baglein Chief Financial Officer and Chief Operating Officer of SPRT. I appreciate everyone being on the call today.

偉大的。謝謝，里奇。我是 SPRT 財務長兼營運長 Jerry Baglein。我感謝今天大家來參加電話會議。

Moving onto our results, let's start on Slide 5. SBRT. generated GAAP earnings of $30 million, which is $0.28 per share on a diluted common share calculation that represents a 7.2% return on common equity in the first fourth quarter. Our general CECL reserves increased to $48.3 million this quarter, reflecting an increase of $5.4 million and a 0.6 or $0.06 per share reduction to GAAP earnings. For fourth quarter seasonal calculation, we adopted a more conservative economic scenarios to determine the reserve. The calculation is largely driven by economic conditions and the state of the real estate market. It is also influenced by the movement of our assets in our internal risk rating. We earned $39.3 million in distributable earnings in the fourth quarter and a walk-through of our distributable earnings to GAAP net income can be found in the earnings release. Book value was down in the fourth quarter to $15.77 from $15.82. Our increased to the general CECL provision was the largest driver of this decline, resulting in a $0.06 per share reduction to book value. This reduction was partially offset by distributable earnings in excess our common distributions.

轉到我們的結果，讓我們從投影片 5 開始。SBRT。產生了 3000 萬美元的 GAAP 收益，以稀釋普通股計算每股收益為 0.28 美元，相當於第四季度普通股回報率為 7.2%。本季我們的 CECL 總準備金增加至 4,830 萬美元，增加了 540 萬美元，但 GAAP 收益每股減少 0.6 或 0.06 美元。對於第四季季節性計算，我們採用了更保守的經濟情景來決定準備金。此計算很大程度取決於經濟狀況和房地產市場狀況。它也受到我們內部風險評級中資產變動的影響。我們第四季的可分配收益為 3,930 萬美元，我們的可分配收益與 GAAP 淨利潤之間的關係可以在收益發布中找到。第四季帳面價值從 15.82 美元下降至 15.77 美元。我們對一般 CECL 撥備的增加是這一下降的最大推動因素，導致每股帳面價值減少 0.06 美元。這一減少被超出我們共同分配的可分配收益部分抵消。

Slide 7 summarizes our portfolio progression. As Rich mentioned, our portfolio grew this quarter with our originations outpacing our repayments. However, when looking at the entirety of 2023, our repayments exceeded originations. This result in a modestly smaller portfolio size year over year. Despite the smaller portfolio, we are encouraged by the consistency in our prepayment. The repayments speak to the credit quality of our assets and the liquidity in the market for certain asset classes. In aggregate, seven loans were repaid in the quarter. Most of our repayments from were from multifamily and hospitality loans contributing 80% and 15% of the balance, respectively.

投影片 7 總結了我們的投資組合進展。正如里奇所提到的，我們的投資組合本季有所成長，我們的發起速度超過了還款速度。然而，縱觀 2023 年全年，我們的還款額超過了初始還款。這導致投資組合規模逐年略有縮小。儘管投資組合較小，但我們對預付款的一致性感到鼓舞。還款反映了我們資產的信用品質以及某些資產類別的市場流動性。本季總共償還了七筆貸款。我們的還款大多來自多戶家庭貸款和飯店貸款，分別佔餘額的 80% 和 15%。

Slide 8 provides a high-level snapshot of our capitalization. Our average cost of debt during the quarter increased modestly to 7.9%. The increase in our cost of debt as a combination of the issuance of a whole 10 at the end of the third quarter and the increase in silver over the period, 89% of our financing on our core book is non-recourse non-mark-to-market, with reinvest available on four of our CLOs and newly-issued FL. 10. We did not have an immediate need to go to market with another issuance. That said, we are always watching the CLO markets and we'll engage new issuance when the levels are attractive to us our net leverage position remained modest at roughly 2.3 times this quarter. We are deliberate in our use of leverage and view it as a structural highlights. With that, I'll turn it over to Mike to give you an update on our portfolio.

幻燈片 8 提供了我們資本的高級快照。本季我們的平均債務成本小幅上升至 7.9%。我們的債務成本增加，加上第三季末發行了整整 10 只債券以及同期白銀的增加，我們的核心帳簿上 89% 的融資是無追索權、無標記的。上市後，我們的四種CLO 和新發行的FL 均可再投資。10.我們沒有立即需要向市場發行另一次債券。也就是說，我們一直在關注 CLO 市場，當其水平對我們有吸引力時，我們將進行新的發行。本季我們的淨槓桿頭寸保持在約 2.3 倍的適度水平。我們謹慎使用槓桿，並將其視為結構性亮點。接下來，我會將其轉交給麥克，讓他向您介紹我們產品組合的最新情況。

Thanks, Jerry, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. Mike Camparato, President of SBRT and I'm going to start on Slide 12. Our portfolio ended the quarter at $5 billion, spread across 144 loans with an average size of $35 million as Rich mentioned, our exposure is now 77% in the multifamily sector. Our multifamily exposure is in newer vintage assets. Almost one-third of our mostly multifamily exposure was built between 2020 and 2023, 40% of our exposure was built between 1990 and 2020. Importantly, our exposure is in population centers with meaningful employment bases across our entire portfolio. The weighted average five mile population size is approximately 240,000 people. There's been talk in the market about current weakness in multifamily properties. We continue to believe this weakness is more a reflection of over-leveraged borrowers likely taking losses on late 2021 and early 2022 acquisitions and is not reflective of weakness at the asset level. In other words, it's a story of good assets and broken balance sheet. While there will be equity losses in multifamily, I do not believe FBRT. is likely to experience any meaningful losses in our current multifamily book. To be clear, that view is in the context of a four 25 10-year treasury yields. In addition, we have an integrated equity asset management team and believe we may even have the opportunity to turn some potential future REO situations into profitable transactions over time. We are long-term bullish on the fundamentals of multifamily at the asset level, and we'll continue our focus on our portfolio originations on newer vintage assets and larger markets. There continues to be an exceptional amount of liquidity in the multifamily market as evidenced by the robust levels of repayments that we have been receiving. And by the endless inquiries we are receiving from investors looking to acquire loans as a means to obtaining title. This liquidity was especially evident in a transaction that recently went into maturity default after an extensive negotiation to extend alone, a borrower offered an unexpected deed in lieu of foreclosure. Last December, we made five phone calls to local market participants all who were extremely interested in acquiring the property one investor even offered to sign a PSA that week with a nonrefundable deposit conversations like these rarely occur and any other asset class within the commercial real estate universe, we took title to the property and less than a week later, closed on the disposition at a price above our outstanding balance.

謝謝傑瑞，大家早安，謝謝您加入我們。SBRT 主席 Mike Camparato 和我將從幻燈片 12 開始。我們的投資組合本季末達到 50 億美元，分佈在 144 筆貸款中，平均規模為 3,500 萬美元，正如 Rich 所提到的，我們目前 77% 的風險投資於多戶住宅領域。我們的多戶住宅投資於較新的老式資產。在我們的多戶住宅項目中，近三分之一建於 2020 年至 2023 年期間，40% 的項目建於 1990 年至 2020 年之間。重要的是，我們的投資集中在人口中心，在我們的整個投資組合中擁有有意義的就業基礎。五英里加權平均人口規模約為 24 萬人。市面上一直有關於多戶型房產目前疲軟的討論。我們仍然認為，這種疲軟更反映了槓桿率過高的借款人可能會在 2021 年末和 2022 年初的收購中遭受損失，而不是反映資產層面的疲軟。換句話說，這是一個關於良好資產和破碎資產負債表的故事。雖然多戶家庭會出現股權損失，但我不相信 FBRT。在我們目前的多戶家庭帳簿中，很可能會經歷任何有意義的損失。需要明確的是，這種觀點是在 4 個 25 期 10 年期公債殖利率的背景下得出的。此外，我們擁有一體化的股權資產管理團隊，相信隨著時間的推移，我們甚至有機會將一些潛在的未來REO情況轉化為有利可圖的交易。我們長期看好多戶住宅在資產層面的基本面，我們將繼續關注較新的老式資產和更大市場的投資組合起源。多戶住宅市場仍然存在大量流動性，我們收到的強勁還款水準證明了這一點。我們從投資者那裡收到了無數的詢問，他們希望透過貸款來獲得所有權。這種流動性在一項最近陷入到期違約的交易中尤其明顯，該交易經過廣泛談判後單獨延期，借款人提供了意外的契據來代替取消抵押品贖回權。去年12 月，我們給當地市場參與者打了5 通電話，所有這些參與者都對收購該房產非常感興趣，一位投資者甚至提出在那週簽署一份PSA，其中涉及不可退還的押金對話，這樣的情況很少發生，而且商業房地產中的任何其他資產類別都非常罕見。在宇宙中，我們取得了該財產的所有權，不到一周後，以高於我們未清餘額的價格完成了處置。

Slide 13 highlights our origination activity. Specific to the fourth quarter, we originated seven loans at a weighted average spread of 391 basis points. These transactions were primarily in multifamily and hospitality, and we're located located across the Sunbelt.

幻燈片 13 重點介紹了我們的原創活動。具體到第四季度，我們發放了 7 筆貸款，加權平均利差為 391 個基點。這些交易主要集中在多戶住宅和酒店業，而我們位於陽光地帶對面。

Turning to 2024, we've seen transactional volume pickup across multiple product lines. We expect to see substantially more transactions in the middle market. Competition remains send-out and the regional bank bid has not returned quarter to date. Spot has committed to $155 million of new loans and funded $122 million. We anticipate funding another $78 million tomorrow and have a robust pipeline through the remainder of the quarter. We are also seeing green shoots in the conduit market, which has historically been an earnings enhancer in Q1 of 2024. We project to generate approximately $3 million in conduit revenue, which would be our highest quarterly conduit revenue. And over two years, CMBS has again become one of the lower cost financing options in the market. So we are cautiously optimistic that conduit revenue could pick up in 2020 for borrower behavior remains difficult to predict. We are being proactive in getting ahead of issues with our borrowers and are in constant contact with borrowers where Constant Contact is needed. Our real estate team's experience is deep and is equipped to handle a wide range of outcomes we've been successful in resolving loans and extending or modifying when appropriate. In the fourth quarter we modified 13 loans. 10 of those 13 modifications to borrowers contributed additional equity and in eight of those 13 modifications, we were able to reduce our total loan exposure. We will continue to be laser-focused on improving our existing book when the opportunities present themselves even though we already have one of the lowest office loan exposures in the industry, we continue to shrink that exposure. We received one full office repayment in Q4 and another in early January of this year. Excluding our long term net leased corporate headquarters and distribution facility, our office exposure is now comfortably under 5% of the portfolio.

展望 2024 年，我們看到多個產品線的交易量有所回升。我們預計中間市場的交易量將大幅增加。競爭仍在繼續，地區銀行的投標迄今尚未恢復。Spot 已承諾提供 1.55 億美元的新貸款，並提供了 1.22 億美元的資金。我們預計明天將再融資 7,800 萬美元，並在本季剩餘時間內擁有強勁的融資管道。我們也看到管道市場出現萌芽，該市場歷來是 2024 年第一季獲利的增強劑。我們預計將產生約 300 萬美元的通路收入，這將是我們最高的季度通路收入。兩年多來，CMBS 再次成為市場上成本較低的融資選擇之一。因此，我們對 2020 年通路收入可能回升持謹慎樂觀態度，因為借款人行為仍難以預測。我們正在積極主動地解決借款人的問題，並在需要持續聯繫的地方與借款人保持持續聯繫。我們的房地產團隊經驗豐富，有能力處理各種結果，我們已成功解決貸款問題並在適當時延長或修改貸款。第四季我們修改了 13 筆貸款。在這 13 項對借款人的修改中，有 10 項貢獻了額外的股本，在這 13 項修改中的 8 項，我們能夠減少總貸款風險。當機會出現時，我們將繼續專注於改善我們現有的帳簿，儘管我們已經擁有業內最低的辦公大樓貸款風險之一，但我們將繼續縮小該風險。我們在第四季收到了一筆全額辦公室還款，今年一月初又收到了一筆全額還款。不包括我們長期淨租賃的公司總部和分銷設施，我們的辦公室風險目前輕鬆低於投資組合的 5%。

Moving to slide 14, you'll see a summary of our watch list activity. We ended the quarter with six loans on our watch list, all four rated with an aggregate value of $272 million. As already mentioned, one of those six has been fully repaid and resolved. Risk ratings vary company to company, and we review our entire portfolio every quarter and re-rate each loan. Certain characteristics warrant us rating alone for our quarterly and annual filings define each investment rating. But for the purpose of our current watch list, I'll describe before rating for us before rated asset is one that is an underperforming investment with a potential of some interest loss, but still expecting a positive return on investment trends and risk factors are negative. But it is not indicative of expected loss in a future loss to our basis during our quarterly review process in the fourth quarter, loans were downgraded to a four based on the measurements I just described. However, today we already have positive updates on several of those loans to six loans on our watch list, our CBD high-rise office building in Denver, Colorado, this loan was added to watch list in Q3 of '23, and we are in the process of amending this loan with the borrower. We also have an A. Class A. office building in Alpharetta, Georgia. This loan was added to watch list as well in Q3 last year. We have reduced our basis in this asset meaningfully in 2023 and recently entered into another loan amendment, which included additional repayments. On principle, we have a 279 key hotel and Dallas, Texas. This loan was added in Q4 it has since been extended and is being actively marketed for sale. The 350 unit apartment community in San Antonio is one. We previously mentioned this asset was sold yesterday at a gain to our basis and therefore, therefore will be removed from watch list. We have a 471 unit apartment community in Raleigh, North Carolina that was added in Q4. We are in active dialogue with the borrower, and we received extensive interest from the market to acquire the loan at par. And lastly, a two property apartment portfolio in Mooresville and Chapel Hill, North Carolina. This loan was lastly added in Q4, and we are in active dialogue with the borrower and reviewing potential auctions. Our total foreclosure REO positions at quarter end stood at three. As we discussed on our last call, one asset was removed from our watch list in Q4 and taken as REO. This is a small multi-family position. Lubbock, Texas, our asset management team has meaningfully improved the asset quality in a short period of time, and the property has positive leasing momentum. It is currently held for investment as we improve the asset. The other two assets remaining as foreclosure REO for the Portland office building and the Walgreens portfolio. As it pertains to the Portland office property, we received a meaningful payment from one of the property tenants. However, big picture, we do not believe exiting the asset in the current market environment for office buildings is the proper decision Lastly, as our REO Walgreens portfolio, we did not sell any stores in the fourth quarter. Our intention remains to liquidate the portfolio as the market permits, but we are not forced sellers. We are comfortable holding these assets until we reach pricing levels that we feel are appropriate. In aggregate.

前往投影片 14，您將看到我們的觀察清單活動的摘要。本季結束時，我們的觀察名單上有六筆貸款，所有四筆貸款的總價值為 2.72 億美元。如前所述，這六項中的一項已全部償還並解決。每個公司的風險評級各不相同，我們每季都會審查整個投資組合並重新評估每筆貸款。某些特徵需要我們單獨對我們的季度和年度文件進行評級，以確定每個投資評級。但就我們目前的觀察名單而言，我將在評級之前描述我們的評級資產是一項表現不佳的投資，可能會造成一些利息損失，但仍期望投資趨勢為正回報且風險因素為負面。但這並不表明我們在第四季度的季度審查過程中未來損失的預期損失，根據我剛才描述的衡量標準，貸款評級被下調至四級。然而，今天我們已經對其中幾筆貸款進行了積極的更新，其中六筆貸款在我們的觀察名單上，我們位於科羅拉多州丹佛市的CBD 高層辦公大樓，這筆貸款在23 年第三季度被添加到觀察名單中，我們處於與借款人修改該貸款的過程。我們還在喬治亞州阿爾法利塔擁有一棟 A 級辦公大樓。這筆貸款在去年第三季也被加入觀察名單。我們在 2023 年大幅降低了該資產的基礎，並於最近進行了另一項貸款修訂，其中包括額外還款。原則上，我們在德州達拉斯市擁有一家擁有 279 間客房的飯店。這筆貸款是在第四季度添加的，此後已延長並正在積極行銷銷售。聖安東尼奧擁有 350 間公寓的社區就是其中之一。我們之前提到過，該資產昨天以我們的基差收益出售，因此將從觀察名單中刪除。我們在北卡羅來納州羅利市有一個擁有 471 個單元的公寓社區，該社區於第四季度新增。我們正在與借款人積極對話，市場對我們以面額購買貸款的興趣也很大。最後，是位於北卡羅來納州穆爾斯維爾和教堂山的兩處房產公寓組合。這筆貸款最後在第四季度添加，我們正在與借款人積極對話並審查潛在的拍賣。截至季末，我們法拍 REO 部位總數為 3。正如我們在上次電話會議中討論的那樣，一項資產在第四季度從我們的觀察名單中刪除並被視為 REO。這是一個小型多戶家庭位置。德克薩斯州拉伯克市，我們的資產管理團隊在短時間內顯著提高了資產質量，且物業具有積極的租賃勢頭。目前，隨著我們改善資產，它被持有用於投資。另外兩項資產仍作為波特蘭辦公大樓和沃爾格林投資組合的法拍 REO。由於它涉及波特蘭辦公物業，我們從其中一位物業租戶那裡收到了一筆有意義的付款。然而，從大局來看，我們認為在當前的辦公大樓市場環境下退出該資產並不是正確的決定。最後，作為我們的 REO Walgreens 投資組合，我們在第四季度沒有出售任何商店。我們的目的仍然是在市場允許的情況下清算投資組合，但我們不是被迫賣家。我們願意持有這些資產，直到達到我們認為合適的定價水準。合計。

Our foreclosure REO balance ended the quarter at $122 million, which is approximately 2% of total assets.

本季末，我們法拍 REO 餘額為 1.22 億美元，約佔總資產的 2%。

In closing, it's clear that our industry is dealing with significant headwinds. However, we are actually quite bullish about the market opportunity for FBRT. right now given our substantial liquidity position and our limited office exposure. Also, we remain confident in the continued outperformance of our existing portfolio, given our relatively outsized exposure not only to just multi-family but newer vintage, higher quality, multifamily and larger liquid markets. We believe this will provide us with a competitive advantage in 2024 and continue to play offense when most of when most other lenders are on the sidelines.

最後，很明顯，我們的產業正在面臨巨大的阻力。然而，我們實際上非常看好 FBRT 的市場機會。鑑於我們目前的流動性狀況良好且辦公室敞口有限。此外，我們對現有投資組合的持續優異表現仍然充滿信心，因為我們不僅在多戶住宅市場上擁有相對較大的敞口，而且在較新的年份、更高品質的多戶住宅和更大的流動性市場上也有較大的曝險。我們相信，這將為我們在 2024 年提供競爭優勢，並在大多數其他貸款機構處於觀望狀態時繼續進攻。

With that, I would like I would like to turn it back to the operator to begin.

有了這個，我想我想把它轉回操作員開始。

The Q&A session.

問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Sarah Barcomb, BTIG.

莎拉·巴科姆，BTIG。

Hey, good morning, everyone. On so I just wanted to narrow in on the San Antonio foreclosure. I think the key takeaway here is that you guys got a full recovery. And but can you talk a bit more about what led the sponsor away here and how you might view these properties differently compared to the broader portfolio?

嘿，大家早安。所以我只是想縮小聖安東尼奧喪失抵押品贖回權的範圍。我認為這裡的關鍵要點是你們已經完全康復。但您能否多談談是什麼導致贊助商離開這裡，以及與更廣泛的投資組合相比，您如何以不同的方式看待這些財產？

This is a higher LTV peak of SunBelt multifamily cap rates, vintage asset and that new valuation you disclosed implied nearly a full equity wiped out on. Is this a standard outcome for an asset like this where maybe you get the keys back, but at the senior mortgage lender on basis, you see a full recovery. And I'm also curious if you think this could represent a peak to trough valuation for this cycle.

這是 SunBelt 多戶資本化率、老式資產的較高 LTV 峰值，而且您披露的新估值意味著幾乎全部股權都被消滅了。對於這樣的資產來說，這是標準結果嗎？也許您可以拿回鑰匙，但在高級抵押貸款機構中，您會看到完全恢復。我也很好奇你是否認為這可能代表了這個週期的估值從高峰到低谷。

I'd appreciate any color there. Thanks.

我很欣賞那裡的任何顏色。謝謝。

It's a good morning and thank you for the question. This is this was a fairly frustrating process, but as you alluded as well that as well and I do think it's representative a lot of transactions that closed in late '21, early '22. We the borrower had a an extension option and the only condition to exercising that extension was buying a new interest rate cap. They told us they were going to buy a new interest rate cap, then they told us they weren't going to buy a new interest rate cap. They offered us a proposal. We negotiated a proposal. They agreed to the proposal. And then when all was said and done, they couldn't raise the additional money from their LPs to move forward at all.

早安，謝謝你的提問。這是一個相當令人沮喪的過程，但正如您也提到的那樣，我確實認為這代表了 21 年末、22 年初結束的許多交易。我們借款人有一個延期選擇權，行使延期的唯一條件是購買新的利率上限。他們告訴我們他們將購買新的利率上限，然後他們告訴我們他們不會購買新的利率上限。他們向我們提出了一個建議。我們商定了一項建議。他們同意了這個提議。然後當一切都說了又做了之後，他們根本無法從有限合夥人那裡籌集到額外的資金來繼續前進。

So it was very surprising to us. But as I've talked about for several quarters and even again today, borrower behavior, it's very, very difficult to predict. So as frustrating as it is for you guys, it's frustrating for us as well. But again, we took the asset in these these these assets are very liquid right now in the market and we're able to sell it for again. But generally speaking, yes, I do think this is probably yes, representative of what we will see for those late '21, early '22 acquisitions where, as again, as I alluded to in my comments today, I don't foresee us having any meaningful losses in the multifamily book given where the market is today. I think if borrowers elect not to move forward and extend or continue their business plans, I believe we have the ability to move most of our positions Yes, above our current debt basis.

所以這對我們來說非常驚訝。但正如我在幾個季度甚至今天再次談到的那樣，借款人的行為是非常非常難以預測的。因此，這對你們來說令人沮喪，對我們來說也令人沮喪。但同樣，我們持有這些資產，這些資產現在在市場上流動性非常好，我們可以再次出售它。但總的來說，是的，我確實認為這可能是的，代表了我們將在21 年末、22 年初的收購中看到的情況，正如我今天在評論中提到的那樣，我預計我們不會考慮到目前的市場狀況，多戶家庭帳簿中存在任何重大損失。我認為，如果借款人選擇不繼續推進並延長或繼續他們的業務計劃，我相信我們有能力將我們的大部分頭寸轉移到我們當前的債務基礎之上。

Okay, great. And then you know, you've already touched on this, but my follow-up is related to that risk-rating migration on you've repeatedly highlighted before this call as well that borrower behavior is very difficult to predict on Universal's recover that full basis vis-a-vis migrate from a two in Q3 to a foreclosure in this print. Can you just talk about how you're thinking about risk rankings going forward?

好的，太好了。然後你知道，你已經談到了這一點，但我的後續行動與你在這次電話會議之前反复強調的風險評級遷移有關，以及借款人的行為很難預測環球影業完全恢復的情況基礎相對從第三季的2 遷移到本印刷品中的取消抵押品贖回權。您能談談您對未來風險排名的看法嗎？

I mean, it's an imperfect world, right? And it's an imperfect illiquid asset class. So the only information we can gather is the actual quantitative data at the property level and then our conversations with the borrower and they had been implementing the Board, the business plan, they were renovating units. They were improving the asset they were doing the things that they told us they were going to do. And as always, our asset management team engaged with them probably four to six months in advance of their loan maturing. And every conversation was we're moving forward. We're moving forward.

我的意思是，這是一個不完美的世界，對嗎？這是一個不完美的非流動性資產類別。因此，我們可以收集的唯一資訊是財產層面的實際定量數據，然後是我們與借款人的對話，他們一直在執行董事會、業務計劃，他們正在翻新單位。他們正在改善資產，他們正在做他們告訴我們他們要做的事情。像往常一樣，我們的資產管理團隊可能在貸款到期前四到六個月與他們接觸。每一次談話都顯示我們正在前進。我們正在前進。

We're going to amend, we're going to do what we need to do and it was literally days before maturity. We had a fully negotiated documented extension papered with the attorneys, and they just called us a few days before and said can't do it. And so I'm not sure what we could do differently within the context of that set of facts. I think we've got a very good process. I believe our rankings are as accurate as they can possibly be given the information we have. And we'll just continue to do our best to give you guys as much transparency as we can get.

我們將進行修改，我們將做我們需要做的事情，而這實際上距離成熟還有幾天。我們與律師進行了充分協商並書面延期，他們幾天前才打電話給我們並說不能這樣做。因此，我不確定在這組事實的背景下我們可以採取哪些不同的做法。我認為我們有一個非常好的流程。我相信我們的排名是根據我們所掌握的資訊盡可能準確的。我們將繼續盡最大努力為大家提供盡可能多的透明度。

You know, I appreciate the color there and again, expect to see that come and as effectively a full repay. So I'm Thanks for taking my question.

你知道，我一次又一次地欣賞這種顏色，希望看到它的到來並得到充分的回報。所以我很感謝您提出我的問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Stephen Laws, Raymond James.

史蒂芬勞斯，雷蒙德詹姆斯。

Hi, good morning. I first want to thank you for the detailed color on the on the watch list and Argo. It's nice to have that level of discussion.

早安.我首先要感謝您對《觀察名單》和《阿爾戈》的詳細顏色。很高興能進行這種程度的討論。

And one follow-up on Sarah's question around San Antonio. I know you're able to exit at your basis, can you talk about what the original loan balance was? And then did you provide financing to the new player? And if so, what type of LTV did you look at on the new valuation as far as setting the the nuvifone as Susan?

還有莎拉關於聖安東尼奧的問題的後續報導。我知道你可以按你的基礎退出，你能談談原始貸款餘額是多少嗎？然後你們給新玩家融資了嗎？如果是這樣，就將 nuvifone 設定為 Susan 而言，您在新估值中考慮了哪種類型的 LTV？

Hey, Stephen, good morning. Thanks for the question. And I'll start backwards. So yes, we did provide financing to the new buyer and their anticipation is to flip this to agency financing very quickly, the asset was largely stabilized. I think it was like 92% leased or 93% leased for the past few months. And so we provided just a one-year acquisition facility of $38 million roughly or maybe 30 36 to $38 million in that range. And it was just a one-year loan fixed at 9% with a one point origination fee. So we thought based on how much interest there was in the asset at the$ 43 million level, we felt very good back another 10 points to 15 points on only one year of exposure. And it's a very, very top-shelf middle market operator, who we historically have not provided financing to. So we are very happy to also get a new client out of the opportunity.

嘿，史蒂芬，早安。謝謝你的提問。我將從倒退開始。所以，是的，我們確實向新買家提供了融資，他們的預期是很快將其轉變為機構融資，資產基本上穩定了。我認為過去幾個月的出租率約為 92% 或 93%。因此，我們僅提供了為期一年的收購融資，金額為 3800 萬美元，大約為該範圍內的 30 36 至 3800 萬美元。這只是一筆固定利率為 9% 的一年期貸款，並收取 1 個點的發起費。因此，我們認為，根據對 4,300 萬美元水準的資產的興趣程度，我們感覺非常好，僅在一年的投資中就能再回升 10 到 15 個點。這是一家非常非常頂級的中間市場營運商，我們歷史上從未向其提供過融資。因此，我們很高興能夠從這個機會中獲得一位新客戶。

Great.

偉大的。

And then I apologize, Stephen, what was the first part of your question?

然後我道歉，史蒂芬，你問題的第一部分是什麼？

Again, I see original loan balance. So you know, as far as opposed, I think you provided the carrying value, but the original loan balance.

我再次看到原始貸款餘額。所以你知道，就反對而言，我認為你提供了帳面價值，但提供了原始貸款餘額。

I believe it was about $1.5 million back of where our ending balance was I think we had about $1.5 million in future fundings to effectuate the business plan.

我相信這比我們的期末餘額少了大約 150 萬美元，我認為我們未來還有大約 150 萬美元的資金來實現業務計劃。

Thanks for the color there. Really appreciate the details. And as a follow-up, kind of bigger picture on multi, you mentioned the pipeline is exactly my notes, but I think of the modifications, I think you said 10 maybe put new equity, maybe it was eight, but the majority put new equity into the transaction.

感謝那裡的顏色。真的很欣賞細節。作為後續，關於多方面的更大的圖景，你提到的管道正是我的筆記，但我想到了修改，我想你說10 可能會投入新的股權，也許是8，但大多數人都會投入新的股權進入交易。

Is that is that equity coming from the sponsor?

這是來自贊助商的股權嗎？

Are they going to third parties and getting measured press loans to do those kind of recaps and pay-down kind of can you talk about where they're getting that capital? And you have general thoughts around multi and the ability of other borrowers to do the same?

他們是否會向第三方尋求適當的新聞貸款來進行此類回顧和償還，您能談談他們從哪裡獲得這些資金嗎？您對多重借款人以及其他借款人是否有能力這樣做有整體的想法嗎？

Yes. So I think largely the capital that was infused into those extensions was from the existing investors, the existing LPs. I think there has been a lot of conversation in the market about pref equity that is available to sponsors in these over-levered positions. And I'm just not sure at the end of the day, if it makes a whole lot of sense, right, it's very expensive, it's dilutive. And yes, if they're taking a piece of the common, we have not seen a lot of it so that there's a lot of banter around it in the market, but we actually haven't seen it solve any problems really because I'm not sure it really does solve any problems. And so I think the generally these outcomes have been fairly binary thus far, right? It's either we're going to keep our existing investors or existing investors want to bridge to brighter days or it's wear out. We'll sell it ourselves and get 10 or $0.2 back or we'll just hand it off to you guys and deal with it that way. But we've seen off the top of my head. I think only one transaction that I can that I can think of where a new LP has stepped in or new equity providers stepped in to provide meaningful dollars.

是的。因此，我認為注入這些延期的資金很大程度來自現有投資者、現有有限合夥人。我認為市場上已經有很多關於贊助商在這些槓桿過高的職位上可以獲得的優先股權的討論。我只是不確定最終它是否有意義，對吧，它非常昂貴，它會被稀釋。是的，如果他們採取了一些共同點，我們還沒有看到很多，所以市場上有很多圍繞它的玩笑，但我們實際上還沒有看到它真正解決任何問題，因為我'我不確定它真的能解決任何問題。所以我認為到目前為止這些結果總體上是相當二元的，對嗎？要嘛我們要留住現有的投資者，要嘛現有的投資者想要度過更光明的日子，否則就會耗盡。我們會自己賣掉它並獲得 10 或 0.2 美元的回報，或者我們會將其交給你們並以這種方式處理。但我們已經看到我的頭頂了。我認為我能想到的只有一項交易是新的有限合夥人介入或新的股權提供者介入以提供有意義的美元。

Great.

偉大的。

And then one last question, if you don't mind on the competitive front, you mentioned in the prepared remarks that you really haven't seen the banks come back. Can you talk about the competitive landscape kind of where spreads on new multi deals, you know, who are you competing against there? And then what do you think needs to happen in the market for banks to So returns.

最後一個問題，如果你不介意競爭方面的話，你在準備好的評論中提到，你真的沒有看到銀行回來。您能否談談新的多重交易的競爭格局，您知道，您在那裡與誰競爭？那麼您認為市場上需要發生什麼才能讓銀行獲得如此回報。

And so I would say that what we're seeing on the origination front is probably some of the highest quality credits that we've seen maybe in the 10 years that have been at Benefit Street. There is a very, very limited bid out there. The as you know, the bank that has gone the publicly traded mortgage rate space. I mean, I think of the 15 players that are out there, only three road alone, all of 2023. So they're largely on the sidelines. And the competition that we're seeing is really only in the multifamily sector, I would say there's a handful of debt funds and obviously the agency that never goes away that we're competing with. But on all other asset classes it's fairly send-out. And as you get higher in loan size, believe it or not as loans get bigger, they're getting meaningfully tougher to do so.

所以我想說，我們在原創方面看到的可能是我們在 Benefit Street 十年來看到的一些最高品質的信用。那裡的出價非常非常有限。如您所知，這家銀行已經進入了公開交易的抵押貸款利率領域。我的意思是，我想到了 2023 年的 15 名球員，其中只有 3 名是客場球員。所以他們基本上處於觀望狀態。我們看到的競爭實際上只發生在多戶住宅領域，我想說的是，有一些債務基金，顯然還有我們與之競爭的永遠不會消失的機構。但在所有其他資產類別上，它的表現相當出色。不管你信不信，隨著貸款規模的增加，貸款規模變得越來越大。

Anything in the 75 hundred 125 million range. And there is really not a deep bid there at all for anything. So we're seeing really interesting opportunities in the larger loan side of things pricing has tightened over the past, I would say, 30 to 60 days. You've seen a incredible spread rally kind of across the world for the past for months. That's been on the screen. Real World usually delays 60 to 90 days. So we're starting to see that come through in our spreads on loans. But I would say generic multifamily today is probably pricing around. So for 300, three, 25, really high-quality stuff has a two handle little spicy or stuff could be in the high threes.

75 億 1.25 億範圍內的任何價值。事實上，那裡根本沒有對任何東西的深度出價。因此，我們在更大的貸款方面看到了非常有趣的機會，過去定價已經收緊，我想說，30 到 60 天。過去幾個月裡，你已經看到了全球範圍內令人難以置信的價差反彈。螢幕上就已經這樣了。現實世界通常會延遲 60 到 90 天。因此，我們開始在貸款利差中看到這一點。但我想說，如今通用多戶住宅的定價可能已經差不多了。因此，對於 300、3、25，真正高品質的東西有兩個手柄，有點辣，或者東西可能在高三。

Fantastic. Appreciate the color. This morning.

極好的。欣賞顏色。今天早上。

Thanks a lot.

多謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

The next question comes from Matthew O'Connor of Jones Trading. Please go ahead.

下一個問題來自瓊斯貿易公司的馬修·奧康納。請繼續。

Your Morning, guys. Thanks for taking the questions. And can you expand on the hospitality loans that you originated this quarter in terms of LTV, geography and then what your overall thought is on that sector going forward, given the migration of the Dallas loan to a four?

你們早安，夥計們。感謝您提出問題。您能否從生命週期價值、地理位置方面詳細闡述本季度發放的酒店貸款，以及考慮到達拉斯貸款已升至 4 級，您對該行業未來的總體看法是什麼？

Yes, the Dallas loan that was a pre-COVID origination. We repeat client of ours that has we've done probably close to a dozen loans with they had done the right thing through the totality of COVID, I mean, paid us down substantially along the way contributed equity kept going into their pockets. They just kind of said no Moss. I think that the the issue that we're dealing with on that specific asset is more a micro market, a locational issue than it is a broader commentary on the hospitality market. Generally speaking, I think we've seen hospitality perform exceptionally well. We've seen leisure oriented hotels kind of blow through peak RevPAR numbers from 2019. Performance has been great. The business oriented travel segment is still slow to recover. It's still moving in the right direction, but it is a very, very slow move in the right direction. And so I would say overall, we're fairly bullish on the sector. And I think more importantly, we're bullish on the credits that we're writing in the sector because a lot of them are generally lower leverage, lower leverage loans that are either acquisition loans or cash and refis, for example, I think one of the loans that we originated in Q4, it was like a 35 LTV in Tampa, Florida, a great institutional sponsor. We had a great mez loan subordinate to us, and we just wrote a very, very low leverage hotel loan. So again, pretty pretty positive on the sector and even more positive on the lower leverage credits that we've been writing.

是的，達拉斯的貸款是在新冠疫情爆發之前就開始的。我們重複我們的客戶，我們可能已經完成了近十幾筆貸款，他們在整個新冠疫情期間做了正確的事情，我的意思是，在貢獻的股本不斷進入他們的口袋的過程中，他們大幅償還了我們的費用。他們只是拒絕了莫斯。我認為我們正在處理的關於該特定資產的問題更多的是一個微觀市場，一個地點問題，而不是對酒店市場的更廣泛的評論。總的來說，我認為我們看到酒店業的表現非常出色。我們已經看到，自 2019 年以來，休閒型酒店的 RevPAR 數字有所突破。表現非常出色。商務旅遊領域的復甦仍然緩慢。它仍然在朝著正確的方向前進，但是朝著正確的方向前進非常非常緩慢。所以我想說，總的來說，我們相當看好這個行業。我認為更重要的是，我們看好我們在該行業撰寫的信貸，因為其中許多槓桿通常較低，槓桿率較低的貸款要么是收購貸款，要么是現金和再融資，例如，我認為在我們第在四季發放的貸款中，它就像佛羅裡達州坦帕市的35 LTV，是一家很棒的機構贊助商。我們有一筆很大的中間貸款從屬於我們，我們剛剛寫了一筆非常非常低槓桿的酒店貸款。再說一遍，對該行業相當積極，對我們一直在撰寫的較低槓桿信貸更加積極。

And that's helpful. Thanks for that. And then can you talk about conduit again? I kind of missed the numbers that you threw out there? And then if any conduit deals were done in 4Q, can you tell me what that was?

這很有幫助。感謝那。然後你能再談談管道嗎？我有點想念你扔在那裡的數字？如果第四季完成了任何管道交易，您能告訴我那是什麼嗎？

And Jerry, do you have the Q or revenue number I'll give Jerry a second to look that up if it doesn't know it. But I had mentioned in the remarks that we anticipate 3 million of revenue, approximately 3 million of revenue in Q1 of 24, and we've seen a real pickup in demand for that product right now. So again, cautiously optimistic that 2024 could be the best year we've had in a few years as it pertains to conduit revenue.

傑瑞，你有 Q 或收入數字嗎？如果傑瑞不知道的話，我會給傑瑞一點時間去查一下。但我在評論中提到，我們預計收入將達到 300 萬，24 年第一季的收入約為 300 萬，而且我們現在已經看到對該產品的需求確實有所回升。因此，我們再次謹慎樂觀地認為，2024 年可能是我們幾年來最好的一年，因為這與管道收入有關。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jerry, I don't know if you had that the Q4 revenue number up.

傑瑞，我不知道你是否知道第四季的營收數字。

Yes, I'll let mentioned in the second, let me just pull it up.

是的，我會在第二部分提到，讓我把它拉出來。

Operator, Alan anymore questions?

接線員，艾倫還有問題嗎？

Certainly.

當然。

Our next question comes from Steve Delaney of Citizen's GMP. Please go ahead.

我們的下一個問題來自 Citizen's GMP 的 Steve Delaney。請繼續。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Good morning, everyone, and congratulations on a strong year. We look at the balance sheet at year end with 350 million of cash. Leverage is 2.3 times and 3.0 is kind of kind of a standard, I guess we call it. I mean, we think about 2024, it looks like you're poised for portfolio growth if you want it and you can find it. So I guess compared to about $800 million in new originations and a $5 billion portfolio, what might those numbers look like in 2024.

大家早安，恭喜您度過了美好的一年。我們看年底的資產負債表有3.5億現金。槓桿是 2.3 倍，3.0 是一種標準，我想我們稱之為。我的意思是，我們考慮到 2024 年，如果您想要並且可以找到的話，您似乎已經做好了投資組合成長的準備。因此，我猜測，與大約 8 億美元的新產品和 50 億美元的投資組合相比，到 2024 年這些數字會是什麼樣子。

Thanks, Steve.

謝謝，史蒂夫。

Maybe I'll maybe I'll start off and then Mike can give some more detail. Rich are going to keep pace and the like. You're right to point out you almost rephrased that as like the untapped earnings power that we have. I mean we have over 300 million of cash, you know, our Walgreens holdings alone, which are kind of earning barely even cash. And that's another 90 million of equity that's tied up in those properties that we can redeploy. As you pointed out, our leverage is low. So yes, we've got it. And we're in this this nice position. I know most of the space is because of the rise in interest rates that were over covering our dividend, even though we're not even close to fully deployed. I think the difference for us is that we're not building a war chest. You've seen, like you said throughout the year, we've originated pretty consistently every quarter. We're not building a I don't know what the word is war chest or, you know, reserve fund for bailing out of maybe some outside tail risk. I think just as you've heard from the nature of our portfolio, we feel relatively good and I understand the market's choppy and it's going to we're going to see maturities of everybody's book over the next four to six quarters. So we want to have some capital in reserve to protect against D&O any issues, but we certainly don't need the amount of liquidity that we have. So you know, and I think people will look back on this vintage, as Mike sort of alluded to, of deal flow that we're seeing now as being one of the best vintages. You know, that's come around in a long time, mostly because there isn't a lot of people competing with us to to underwrite these loans. So I think that's good. But the big picture backdrop is that it would make a lot of sense to be active if we find the right deal flow. I think the only missing piece that's starting to come together, as Mike alluded to from the from the backlog that we have in Q1 is just volume of transactions. It's obviously been light. But to the extent we can see good deals. You're going to see us originating and growing.

也許我會開始，然後麥克可以提供更多細節。Rich 將跟上步伐等等。您正確地指出，您幾乎將其重新表述為我們擁有的未開發的盈利能力。我的意思是，我們擁有超過 3 億現金，你知道，光是我們持有的沃爾格林 (Walgreens) 股份就幾乎賺不到現金。還有另外 9,000 萬股本與我們可以重新部署的資產相關。正如您所指出的，我們的槓桿率很低。所以是的，我們已經做到了。我們處於這個很好的位置。我知道大部分空間是因為利率上升超過了我們的股息，儘管我們還沒有接近完全部署。我認為我們的差別在於我們沒有建立戰爭基金。您已經看到，就像您全年所說的那樣，我們每個季度的創意都非常一致。我們並不是建立一個我不知道該用什麼字眼來形容的戰爭基金，或是你知道的儲備基金，以擺脫可能存在的一些外部尾部風險。我認為，正如您從我們投資組合的性質中聽到的那樣，我們感覺相對良好，並且我了解市場的波動，我們將在接下來的四到六個季度內看到每個人的書籍到期。因此，我們希望擁有一些儲備資本，以防止 D&O 出現任何問題，但我們當然不需要現有的流動性。所以你知道，我認為人們會回顧這個年份，正如麥克提到的那樣，我們現在認為這是最好的年份之一的交易流程。你知道，這種情況已經發生了很長時間，主要是因為沒有很多人與我們競爭來承銷這些貸款。所以我認為這很好。但大背景是，如果我們找到合適的交易流，那麼積極主動將很有意義。我認為，正如麥克在第一季積壓的訂單中提到的那樣，唯一缺少的部分就是交易量。顯然已經很輕了。但在某種程度上，我們可以看到很好的交易。您將看到我們的起源和成長。

Appreciate you've got your year-end, you've got your conduit business, which is sort of a follow on. I don't know how much conversion you get from bridge to conduit assume that's one of the synergies and benefits of having that product?

感謝你已經完成了年終工作，你已經完成了管道業務，這有點像是後續業務。我不知道從橋樑到管道的轉換有多少，假設這是擁有該產品的協同效應和好處之一？

Our crazy question, I guess, but the 77% multifamily I mean, would you guys ever consider buying a small dust lender? Just that kind of have that same conversion opportunity between bridge and permanent financing?

我猜我們的瘋狂問題是，但我指的是 77% 的多戶家庭，你們會考慮購買小型灰塵貸款機構嗎？就那種在過橋融資和永久融資之間有同樣的轉換機會嗎？

Thanks, David. I mean it's something we talk about more often than not. It is easier said than done. If the right opportunity presented itself, we would certainly be interested in looking at that. But yes, the more products that we can have that complement each other, and we can cross-sell the better experience that we're giving to our client base. So we're always looking to do that and appreciate the comments.

謝謝，大衛。我的意思是這是我們經常談論的事情。說起來容易做起來難。如果合適的機會出現，我們肯定會感興趣。但是，是的，我們可以擁有更多相互補充的產品，我們就可以交叉銷售我們為客戶群提供的更好體驗。因此，我們一直希望做到這一點並感謝您的評論。

Thanks.

謝謝。

As a reminder, if you have a question, please press star then one.

提醒一下，如果您有疑問，請先按星號，然後再按一個。

Our next question comes from Matthew Howlett of B. Riley. Please go ahead.

我們的下一個問題來自 B. Riley 的 Matthew Howlett。請繼續。

Okay. Thanks, everybody.

好的。謝謝大家。

Thanks for taking my question. Strong within a year. But my question first is to you, Jerry, on CECL and the General CECL Reserve, you realize you're not taking anything asset-specific last quarter, but how do we think about that going forward? I know it's a lot of noise and I know you look at it for economic inputs me. Could that begin to subside towards the back half of the year? Or if you're growing really growing the portfolio will still be kind of a headwind for GAAP earnings. I realize you're back at up core. Just curious on how to think about the noise that's created that through the course of 2014?

感謝您提出我的問題。一年內強勢。但我首先問你的問題是，Jerry，關於 CECL 和 CECL 儲備金，你意識到上個季度你沒有採取任何特定資產的措施，但我們如何看待未來的情況？我知道這有很多噪音，我也知道你們會看它來獲取我的經濟投入。這種情況會在今年下半年開始消退嗎？或者，如果你確實在成長，那麼投資組合仍然會對 GAAP 收益構成阻力。我意識到你又回到了核心。只是好奇如何思考 2014 年期間產生的噪音？

Yes.

是的。

Good question. I mean, in terms of portfolio growth, I would assume you're taking that number of basis points against what you're originating going forward, give or take a little bit or I just think as a rate as a proxy?

好問題。我的意思是，就投資組合成長而言，我假設您將根據您未來的原始數據採取一定數量的基點，給予或減少一點，或者我只是認為作為一個代理利率？

So yes, it's going to create some some gap offset as we grow the book. And I don't I don't expect a big change in the economic scenario throughout the year if it's possible, but I mean, you've heard our opinion on how we think the market is going to go. We've taken a pretty conservative approach to that economic forecast that we use. And I don't see us switching that to a rosier picture in 24. So I think you're going to have no it'll move around a little bit just depending on what those future scenarios are, but I think we would expect to keep a pretty conservative approach to how we think about that portfolio reserve. And the only other factor is just how our risk ratings kind of move because that will drive a little bit of the totality of that number as well. But I'm not expecting big relief from some sort of decline in general throughout the year at this point, I think the base case as we run relatively similar to where we are now.

所以，是的，隨著我們本書的發展，它會產生一些差距。如果可能的話，我預計全年經濟狀況不會發生重大變化，但我的意思是，您已經聽到了我們對市場走勢的看法。我們對我們使用的經濟預測採取了相當保守的方法。我不認為我們會在 24 小時內將其轉變為更樂觀的局面。因此，我認為它不會稍微移動，這取決於未來的情況，但我認為我們希望對投資組合儲備的看法保持相當保守的態度。唯一的另一個因素是我們的風險評級如何變化，因為這也會推動這個數字的整體變化。但我預計今年全年的整體下滑不會帶來很大的緩解，我認為我們的基本情況與現在的情況相對相似。

Great.

偉大的。

And I know investors do look at the adjusted book and I think you said 96 dips in it, but just something to I think the conservatism, I think investors appreciate, but certainly it's a headwind and noise to that adjusted book value number any given quarter, but appreciate the color. It sounds like it's good to hear that there wasn't really any asset specific CECL reserve this quarter. So that certainly speaks to your underwriting?

我知道投資者確實會關注調整後的帳面價值，我認為你說過其中有96 次下跌，但我認為投資者欣賞這種保守主義，但對於任何特定季度的調整後帳面價值數字來說，這肯定是一種逆風和噪音，但欣賞顏色。很高興聽到本季實際上沒有任何特定資產的 CECL 儲備。那麼這肯定與您的承保有關嗎？

And the second question, I guess on the just the funding side, I think I heard you mention your you did the CLO in the quarter. You're sort of monitoring that market. Do you got you what six outstanding CLOs with the 10 or five outstanding today are a cost of debt, so obviously low. How do you look at that market going forward when you want to begin growing the portfolio, would you like to keep, you know, the predominant for instance, on the CLOs, given they're non-recourse, you get great advance rates or do you want to expand into what you want to use more bank lines going forward? And just talk to me about the liability. You can see as you begin to really start growing that portfolio, will the liability mix change warranty?

第二個問題，我想只是在資金方面，我想我聽到你提到你在本季度做了 CLO。你正在監控這個市場。你知道嗎，六筆未償還的 CLO 加上今天的 10 筆或五筆未償還的債務成本，顯然很低。當您想要開始增加投資組合時，您如何看待未來的市場，您是否願意保留，例如，CLO 上的主導資產，因為它們是無追索權的，您可以獲得很高的預付款率或您想擴展到未來想要使用更多銀行額度的領域嗎？跟我談談責任吧。您可以看到，當您開始真正開始擴大該投資組合時，責任組合會改變保固嗎？

I can start and I'll let others jump in. But I think our perspective on this is all things being equal it's hard to beat CLO financing. I mean, we can get matched term non-mark-to-market financing. It's a pretty good solution. So once we have a nice pool of assets built up to do another deal and the market makes sense if it's equal to or better than what we can get on a bank line, I think we generally prefer that and particularly if we can get the reinvestment components that we like to have on those deals, which makes them useful for really a couple of years. And then you've got a couple of years of runoff depending on how the portfolio sits after that. So if the markets open and accretive, I don't expect us to stop going out. That said, I think we've built the book with a lot of optionality. I mean right now, but virtually all of our book is in CLOs. So it means we're in absolutely no rush to do a deal. I think we're well positioned to be, you know, a very choosy issue or we don't have to rush to market and we've got tons of capacity with our bank partners right now.

我可以開始，然後我會讓其他人加入。但我認為我們對此的看法是，在所有條件相同的情況下，CLO 融資很難被擊敗。我的意思是，我們可以獲得匹配期限的非按市值計價的融資。這是一個非常好的解決方案。因此，一旦我們建立了一個很好的資產池來進行另一筆交易，並且如果它等於或優於我們可以透過銀行額度獲得的資產，那麼市場就有意義，我認為我們通常更喜歡這樣做，特別是如果我們可以獲得再投資我們希望在這些交易中包含一些組件，這使得它們在幾年內都很有用。然後你會經歷幾年的決選，這取決於之後投資組合的情況。因此，如果市場開放並增值，我預計我們不會停止走出去。也就是說，我認為我們在編寫這本書時提供了很多選擇。我的意思是現在，但實際上我們所有的書都是 CLO。因此，這意味著我們絕對不急於達成協議。我認為我們處於有利地位，你知道，這是一個非常挑剔的問題，或者我們不必急於進入市場，而且我們現在與銀行合作夥伴擁有大量的能力。

And so I kind of like where we're at. It's total flexibility with our balance sheet at the moment. So we do have a, I think, sell, but we're certainly not in any rush, nor do we have any impetus to have to go out and issue. So I'm very comfortable with how we're positioned on that going forward.

所以我有點喜歡我們現在的處境。目前我們的資產負債表具有完全的彈性。所以我認為我們確實有賣出，但我們當然不急，也沒有任何動力去發行。因此，我對我們未來的定位感到非常滿意。

Great.

偉大的。

And then just last final one, if I may. On capital management, clearly you're buying back stock. I'm sure you're frustrated with the 20 plus percent discount. The stock is trading at to adjusted book, but you're also trading at a little over 11% dividend yield with run rate earnings above the dividend, clearly probably going much higher. I mean, Rich, bigger picture question, bigger picture question would you like to raise the dividend if you continue that growth in the portfolio this year? Or is the focus just buying back stock if you're going to trade at this discount.

如果可以的話，最後一個。在資本管理方面，顯然你正在回購股票。我相信您對 20% 以上的折扣感到沮喪。該股的交易價格符合調整後的帳面價值，但股息殖利率也略高於 11%，運行率收益高於股息，顯然可能更高。我的意思是，Rich，大局問題，大局問題，如果今年你的投資組合繼續成長，你願意提高股息嗎？或者，如果您打算以此折扣進行交易，那麼重點只是回購股票。

Thank you for.

謝謝你。

I hate not being all that it's a book look at the average it, Mike?

我討厭不把這本書看成平均水平，麥克？

Yes, the first of all, they're not mutually exclusive concepts. We have zero sort of since our public market debut, we've been pretty consistent in buying back our shares when when our shares get cheap. So I think as long as we have liquidity, there's that's a that's always an attractive use of capital if the market trades our stock poorly. But and the conversation about dividend is one that we have frequently. We have it with ourselves and we have it with our Board. I think our dividend policy or I don't think clearly our dividend policy is to pay what we earn or what we think we're going to earn that crystal ball is sometimes a little difficult to interpret.

是的，首先，它們不是相互排斥的概念。自從我們公開市場首次亮相以來，我們的股票數量為零，當我們的股票價格便宜時，我們一直相當一致地回購我們的股票。因此，我認為，只要我們有流動性，如果市場交易我們的股票表現不佳，那麼資本的使用總是有吸引力的。但是，關於股息的討論是我們經常進行的。我們自己也有這樣的想法，我們的董事會也有這樣的想法。我認為我們的股息政策，或者我不認為清楚，我們的股息政策是支付我們賺取的收入或我們認為我們將賺取的收入，這個水晶球有時有點難以解釋。

You're right.

你說得對。

As you commented, we have lots of untapped earnings potential as we deploy our excess cash and as we put additional capital to work and possibly even increase leverage modestly. So that would for 10 get out some some real earnings power. You know that the timing of the our new deal flow is a little bit trickier to predict and then, of course, is things on the other side of the ledger, probably the biggest benefit everybody has had over the last year and change has been the rising rates. As far as your earnings power, it hasn't going to help asset quality in many cases, but it certainly has helped our earnings power who the heck knows where rates are going up, probably the trajectory is more likely down and than up. And then, you know, many others are cutting dividends or certain certainly not having an increasing dividend conversation because of potential asset problems. So I think, yes, I think all these factors weigh together, and we're going to continue to analyze things. But the end conclusion, we'll always reach is paying what we earn for certainly doing our best to predict what we're going to earn and paying a dividend level there. So you that's my best way of saying we're going to continue to monitor it. And but we Your point's not wrong. We certainly have a lot our earnings power that's been untapped. Just want to wait in the context of all the other things I said.

正如您所評論的，當我們部署多餘的現金、投入額外的資本，甚至可能適度提高槓桿率時，我們還有很多未開發的獲利潛力。這樣 10 就能獲得一些真正的獲利能力。你知道，我們新交易流的時間有點難以預測，當然，這是帳本另一邊的事情，可能是去年每個人都獲得的最大好處，變化是利率上升。就你的獲利能力而言，在很多情況下它不會對資產品質有所幫助，但它肯定會幫助我們的獲利能力，誰知道利率會在哪裡上升，可能軌跡更有可能是下降而不是上升。然後，你知道，許多其他人正在削減股息，或者由於潛在的資產問題，肯定不會進行增加股息的討論。所以我認為，是的，我認為所有這些因素都在一起衡量，我們將繼續分析事情。但最終的結論是，我們總是會得出支付我們賺到的錢，當然會盡力預測我們將賺到的錢並在那裡支付股息水平。所以這是我表達我們將繼續監控它的最好方式。但我們你的觀點並沒有錯。我們當然還有很多獲利能力尚未開發。只是想在我所說的所有其他事情的背景下等待。

I really appreciate that. But let me just add quickly to that, just Chris. I mean, I think we clearly have upside in earnings power. I think that does lead to upside and potential dividend. I think the key there is when we raise, if we raise it, is going to be it in the context of giving the all clear on not only a backward-looking legacy portfolio basis, but also a forward looking earnings power basis, right. We don't want to be in a position where we're moving dividends, yes, every quarter or two, if we raise it will be in the context of things, feel really, really strong. It will be with a strong message to the market, but I do think the potential is there in the future.

我真的很感激。但讓我快速補充一下，克里斯。我的意思是，我認為我們的獲利能力顯然有上升空間。我認為這確實會帶來上行空間和潛在的股息。我認為，當我們籌集資金時，如果我們籌集資金的話，關鍵是不僅要在向後看的遺留投資組合的基礎上，而且還要在前瞻性的盈利能力的基礎上，讓一切都變得清晰起來，對吧。我們不想處於這樣的境地：我們每季或每兩季都會調整股息，如果我們提高股息，我們會感覺非常非常強大。這將向市場發出強烈的訊息，但我確實認為未來有潛力。

I appreciate I just think you guys are certainly in the camp from potentially raising the dividend this year. And I know that's counter to some of the other peers that we've seen out there. But certainly it's a nice conversation to be had.

我很感激，我只是認為你們今年肯定會提高股息。我知道這與我們見過的其他一些同行相反。但毫無疑問，這是一次愉快的談話。

And then I figured I'd bring it up.

然後我想我應該提出來。

I appreciate it.

我很感激。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Great. Thanks.

偉大的。謝謝。

This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Lindsey Crabbe for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回給林賽·克拉布（Lindsey Crabbe）發表閉幕詞。

Thanks, Alan. We appreciate everyone joining us today. If you have any further questions, please reach out to me or the team. Thank you.

謝謝，艾倫。我們感謝今天加入我們的所有人。如果您還有任何疑問，請聯絡我或團隊。謝謝。

The conference has now concluded.

會議現已結束。

Thank you.

謝謝。

For attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

出席今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。