EVgo Inc (EVGO) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Kate, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the EVgo Q2 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的支持。我叫凱特，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。現在，我歡迎大家參加 EVgo 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

I would now like to turn the call over to Heather Davis, VP of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想將電話轉給投資人關係副總裁 Heather Davis。請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to EVgo's second quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Heather Davis, and I'm the Vice President of Investor Relations at EVgo. Joining me on today's call are Badar Khan, EVgo's Chief Executive Officer; and Paul Dobson, EVgo's Chief Financial Officer. Today, we will be discussing EVgo's second quarter 2025 financial results, followed by a Q&A session.

早安，歡迎參加 EVgo 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。我叫 Heather Davis，是 EVgo 的投資人關係副總裁。參加今天電話會議的還有 EVgo 執行長 Badar Khan 和 EVgo 財務長 Paul Dobson。今天，我們將討論 EVgo 2025 年第二季的財務業績，然後進行問答環節。

Today's call is being webcast and can be accessed on the Investors section of our website at investors.evgo.com. The call will be archived and available there, along with the company's earnings release and investor presentation after the conclusion of this call.

今天的電話會議將進行網路直播，您可以透過我們網站 investors.evgo.com 的「投資者」板塊觀看。會議結束後，會議內容將存檔並發佈在網站上，同時提供公司財報和投資者簡報。

During the call, management will be making forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including expectations about future performance. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations are detailed in our SEC filings, including in the Risk Factors section of our most recent annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q.

在電話會議期間，管理階層將做出具有風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述，包括對未來績效的預期。可能導致實際結果與我們的預期存在重大差異的因素在我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中進行了詳細說明，包括我們最近的 10-K 表年度報告和 10-Q 表季度報告中的風險因素部分。

The company's SEC filings are available on the Investors section of our website. These forward-looking statements apply as of today, and we undertake no obligation to update these statements after the call. Also, please note that we will be referring to certain non-GAAP financial measures on this call. Information about these non-GAAP measures, including a reconciliation to the corresponding GAAP measures can be found in the earnings materials available on the Investors section of our website.

該公司的美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 文件可在我們網站的「投資者」部分查閱。這些前瞻性陳述自今日適用，我們不承擔在電話會議後更新這些陳述的義務。另外，請注意，我們將在本次電話會議上參考某些非 GAAP 財務指標。有關這些非 GAAP 指標的資訊（包括與相應 GAAP 指標的對帳）可在我們網站「投資者」部分提供的收益資料中找到。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Badar Khan, EVgo's CEO.

說完這些，我將把電話轉給 EVgo 的執行長 Badar Khan。

Thank you, Heather. EVgo had yet another excellent quarter with strong operational performance and achievement of important strategic milestones. We had particularly strong revenue this quarter, up 47% versus the same quarter last year. Adjusted EBITDA was more than $6 million better than last year, bringing us closer to our goal of breakeven adjusted EBITDA for the full year.

謝謝你，希瑟。EVgo 又度過了一個出色的季度，營運業績強勁，並實現了重要的策略里程碑。本季我們的營收尤其強勁，比去年同期成長了 47%。調整後的 EBITDA 比去年高出 600 千萬美元，使我們更接近全年實現盈虧平衡的調整後 EBITDA 目標。

We had 4,350 stalls in operation and ended the quarter with $183 million in cash, cash equivalents and restricted cash, which is $12 million higher than the prior quarter. And most importantly, does not include $65 million in gross proceeds from the first drawdown from our commercial bank facility and expected 30C sale proceeds in August.

我們擁有 4,350 個營業攤位，本季末的現金、現金等價物和受限現金為 1.83 億美元，比上一季高出 1,200 萬美元。最重要的是，這還不包括我們商業銀行貸款首次提取的 6,500 萬美元總收益和 8 月預計的 30C 銷售收益。

On July 23, we closed on the largest and first-of-its-kind commercial bank financing for charging infrastructure in the US for $225 million with the ability to expand to $300 million and have already received a $48 million first drawdown. This is a major strategic milestone for the company, enabling us to accelerate our expansion and diversifying our funding sources with low-cost, non-dilutive capital.

7 月 23 日，我們完成了美國規模最大、首筆商業銀行充電基礎設施融資，融資金額為 2.25 億美元，並有能力擴大至 3 億美元，目前已收到 4,800 萬美元的首筆提款。這是公司的一個重要的策略里程碑，使我們能夠加速擴張，並以低成本、非稀釋性的資本實現資金來源多元化。

As you will see, we expect to be able to increase our ending 2029 public stall guidance by approximately 3,500 more stalls than we had previously estimated to roughly 14,000 stalls. Strategically, EVgo is now very well positioned competitively as one of the best capitalized players in the sector. As always, we are focused on being disciplined in allocating capital, leveraging debt funding sources and the growth of our balance sheet.

如您所見，我們預計到 2029 年年底，公共攤位指導數量將比先前估計的增加約 3,500 個，達到約 14,000 個攤位。從戰略上看，EVgo 目前已佔據非常有利的競爭地位，是該領域資本最雄厚的公司之一。與往常一樣，我們注重嚴格配置資本、利用債務融資來源和資產負債表的成長。

At this time, we do not have a request in front of the DOE LPO for our next advance. One of the many attractive features of the DOE loan is that there is no time limit, where we need to request advances for specific tranches of eligible costs we incur other than the overall five year availability period.

目前，我們尚未向 DOE LPO 提出下一筆預付款的請求。DOE 貸款的眾多吸引人的特點之一是沒有時間限制，除了整體五年可用期之外，我們還需要為我們產生的特定部分合格成本申請預付款。

And finally, we've passed enough milestones this year to be able to forecast a reduction in net CapEx per stall for 2025 vintage stalls by 28% versus our initial expectations. A reduction in net CapEx per stall of this magnitude results in significantly higher returns.

最後，我們今年已經通過了足夠的里程碑，可以預測 2025 年老式攤位的每個攤位的淨資本支出將比我們最初的預期減少 28%。每個攤位的淨資本支出減少如此大幅度，將帶來更高的回報。

The outlook for EVgo as an owner-operator of DC fast charging remains very bright, with demand growth outstripping supply growth. The latest independent forecasts project that the increase in electric vehicles in operation is outpacing the more modest increase in the number of DCFC stalls in the US. These latest forecasts take into account all of the federal administration's policies in electric vehicles, which results in EV VIO over 4 times higher than today by 2030.

作為直流快速充電的所有者和營運商，EVgo 的前景仍然非常光明，需求成長超過供應成長。最新的獨立預測顯示，美國運行的電動車數量的增長速度超過了直流燃料電池汽車攤位數量的溫和增長速度。這些最新預測考慮了聯邦政府在電動車方面的所有政策，這意味著到 2030 年電動車的 VIO 將比現在高出 4 倍以上。

As we're seeing from GM, Ford and many others, major automakers continue to prioritize a growing lineup of affordable electric vehicles that appeal to all customer segments. Forecasts of the growth in DCFC stalls are not as robust, but anecdotally, we see a slowdown taking place among both a large number of smaller companies, who are likely going to struggle to attract capital in this environment and also a small number of larger companies whose parents may be allocating capital to other priorities.

正如我們從通用汽車、福特和許多其他公司看到的那樣，主要汽車製造商繼續優先考慮推出越來越多的能夠吸引所有客戶群體的經濟型電動車。對 DCFC 成長的預測並不那麼強勁，但有傳聞稱，我們看到大量小型公司（這些公司在這種環境下可能難以吸引資本）和少數大型公司（其母公司可能將資本分配給其他優先事項）的成長正在放緩。

The DCFC forecast shown here represents the industry continuing to grow at the same pace it did over the last 12 months. As a result, we expect that the recent trend of more electric vehicles per fast charger is likely to continue, resulting in a promising macro environment for EVgo in this coming five year period, which we expect will continue to drive up both EVgo market share and throughput per stall.

此處顯示的 DCFC 預測表明該行業將繼續以過去 12 個月的相同速度成長。因此，我們預計，每個快速充電器可容納更多電動車的近期趨勢可能會持續下去，為未來五年 EVgo 帶來良好的宏觀環境，我們預計這將繼續推高 EVgo 的市場份額和每個攤位的吞吐量。

This macro environment continues to be supplemented by multiple additional tailwinds that continue to show positive trends, like the electrification of rideshare, autonomous electric vehicles and more affordable vehicles in both the new and used electric vehicle markets, attracting more customers without at-home charging and thus reliant on public fast charging.

這個宏觀環境繼續受到多種額外順風因素的補充，這些因素繼續呈現積極趨勢，例如共享汽車的電氣化、自動駕駛電動車以及新舊電動車市場中更便宜的汽車，吸引了更多沒有家庭充電設施、因此依賴公共快速充電的客戶。

In June, Uber disclosed that the number of their EV drivers globally was up more than 60% versus the year prior. And in the US, only just over 1/3 had a dedicated home charger. We are very pleased to close the commercial bank facility provided by a syndicate of global project finance banks led by SMBC and includes Royal Bank of Canada, ING, Bank of Montreal, and Investec.

6 月份，Uber 披露其全球電動車駕駛數量較上年同期增加了 60% 以上。而在美國，只有三分之一多一點的家庭擁有專用家用充電器。我們非常高興能夠完成由三井住友銀行牽頭的全球專案融資銀行財團提供的商業銀行融資，該財團包括加拿大皇家銀行、荷蘭國際集團、蒙特利爾銀行和 Investec。

With an initial 325 basis points spread, this loan demonstrates the creditworthiness of our business that these commercial banks see and the confidence the banks have in the resilience of the cash flows generated by the ultrafast charging infrastructure EVgo is building across the United States, to give customers more choices to charge their electric vehicles.

這筆貸款的初始利差為 325 個基點，證明了這些商業銀行對我們業務的信譽度的認可，以及銀行對 EVgo 在美國各地建設的超快速充電基礎設施所產生的現金流的彈性的信心，為客戶提供更多為電動車充電的選擇。

This facility is complementary and incremental to our $1.25 billion DOE loan with a similar structure with standard project finance terms. It offers tremendous flexibility and can be used to finance the build-out of more EVgo-owned stall types, including dedicated hubs for autonomous vehicle partners.

該貸款是對我們 12.5 億美元 DOE 貸款的補充和增量，具有類似的結構和標準專案融資條款。它提供了極大的靈活性，可用於資助更多 EVgo 擁有的攤位類型的建設，包括為自動駕駛汽車合作夥伴提供的專用樞紐。

We received a $48 million advance on July 24, and we have the ability to draw down on the facility monthly. We have the ability to go faster and build a higher number of stalls or go slower with lower deployment targets. All new EVgo-owned stalls can now be levered going forward.

我們在 7 月 24 日收到了 4800 萬美元的預付款，並且我們有能力每月提取這筆貸款。我們有能力加快速度並建造更多攤位，或放慢速度並降低部署目標。現在，所有新的 EVgo 擁有的攤位都可以利用。

Additionally, this bank facility represents an important milestone in establishing long-term relationships with commercial lenders. We believe the opening of the commercial bank project financing market as a source of capital for public fast charging infrastructure reflects the maturity of the company, the profitability of the EVgo network, and confidence in management.

此外，此銀行貸款是與商業貸款機構建立長期關係的重要里程碑。我們認為，商業銀行專案融資市場作為公共快速充電基礎設施資金來源的開放反映了公司的成熟度、EVgo 網路的獲利能力以及對管理層的信心。

With the financing we now have in place, together with our targeted CapEx per stall and reinvesting excess operational cash flow over the next five years, we now expect to be able to more than quintuple our annual stall build schedule from 825 stalls in 2025 to up to 5,000 by 2029. That rate of growth in 2029 is more than double our earlier estimates. This accelerated pace meaningfully differentiates EVgo amongst US fast charging companies and results in a level of scale that will become harder for others to replicate over time and deepens the competitive moat around our business.

憑藉我們現有的融資，加上我們針對每個攤位設定的資本支出目標以及未來五年對過剩營運現金流的再投資，我們預計年度攤位建設計劃將增加五倍以上，從 2025 年的 825 個攤位增加到 2029 年的 5,000 個攤位。2029 年的成長率是我們之前估計的兩倍多。這種加速的步伐使 EVgo 在美國快速充電公司中脫穎而出，並形成了一定的規模，隨著時間的推移，其他公司將更難複製，並加深了我們業務的競爭障礙。

The second strategic development this quarter is that we're now forecasting a 28% reduction in 2025 vintage net CapEx per stall from our original estimate. This is an exciting milestone. Even including the impact of global tariffs, we are still expecting an 8% improvement in vintage gross CapEx per stall versus what we initially expected for 2025. This improvement is driven by savings from lower contractor pricing, material sourcing, and increased use of prefabricated skids, some of which we shared in the last earnings call.

本季的第二個策略發展是，我們目前預測 2025 年每個攤位的淨資本支出將比我們最初的估計減少 28%。這是一個令人興奮的里程碑。即使考慮到全球關稅的影響，我們仍然預期每個攤位的古董總資本支出將比我們最初對 2025 年的預期提高 8%。這項改善得益於承包商定價降低、材料採購減少以及預製滑軌使用增加帶來的成本節省，我們在上次收益電話會議上分享了其中的一些內容。

Today, however, I'm able to share that we now expect vintage CapEx offsets to be around 50% higher than we originally expected because more stalls we're operationalizing this year are expected to have state grants associated with them. Unlike many other charging companies, we have a large enough project pipeline, where we can now move the timing of operationalizing assets from one quarter to another and from one year to another. That flexibility allows us to capture more state grants wherever those opportunities may arise.

然而，今天我可以告訴大家，我們現在預計老式資本支出抵銷將比我們最初預期的高出約 50%，因為預計今年我們將經營的更多攤位將獲得與之相關的國家補助。與許多其他充電公司不同，我們擁有足夠大的專案管道，現在我們可以將資產投入營運的時間從一個季度轉移到另一個季度，從一年轉移到另一年。這種靈活性使我們能夠獲得更多的國家補助，無論這些機會出現在哪裡。

As a reminder, capital offsets come from three sources: state and utility incentives, OEM infrastructure payments, and federal incentives like 30C. Our forecasted performance this year is a reminder that regardless of recent changes to federal incentives, state grants incentives are alive and well.

提醒一下，資本抵消來自三個來源：州和公用事業激勵措施、OEM 基礎設施支付以及 30C 等聯邦激勵措施。我們對今年表現的預測提醒我們，無論聯邦激勵措施最近如何變化，州政府的補助激勵措施仍然有效。

30C will remain in effect for assets placed in service until the end of June 2026, nine months longer than many other incentives created by the IRA. As a result, we expect net vintage CapEx per stall to be significantly lower this year, materially enhancing our return on capital, especially considering the top 15% of our stalls are already generating $50,000 in cash flow per stall per year against a net onetime average CapEx of $74,000.

30C 將對已投入使用的資產持續有效，直至 2026 年 6 月底，比 IRA 制定的許多其他激勵措施長 9 個月。因此，我們預計今年每個攤位的淨古董資本支出將大幅降低，從而大幅提高我們的資本回報率，特別是考慮到我們排名前 15% 的攤位每年每個攤位已經產生 50,000 美元的現金流，而一次性平均淨資本支出為 74,000 美元。

Two consequences of shifting our project portfolio to capture state grants is that a certain number of stalls that were due to be operationalized in Q3 will now shift to Q4. And secondly, stalls with state grants tend to be a little less productive in terms of throughput per stalls in the first year or two than other stalls without state grants. However, the lower CapEx more than makes up for it when we look at project returns.

轉移我們的項目組合以獲取國家補助會產生兩個後果，那就是原定於第三季度投入運營的一定數量的攤位現在將轉移到第四季度。其次，獲得國家補助的攤位在第一年或第二年的每個攤位的產量往往比沒有獲得國家補助的攤位低一些。然而，當我們看項目回報時，較低的資本支出足以彌補這一點。

Our long-term expectation is to continue lowering gross CapEx per stall as a result of our next-generation charging architecture that remains on track for the end of next year.

我們的長期目標是，隨著我們下一代充電架構在明年年底順利完成，每個攤位的總資本支出將持續降低。

That said, we conservatively do not assume capital offsets are as high as the last two years, which still results in very favorable project returns, especially given the higher annual cash flow per stall levels we expect to reach by 2029.

話雖如此，我們保守地認為資本抵銷不會像過去兩年那麼高，但這仍然會帶來非常有利的專案回報，特別是考慮到我們預計到 2029 年每個攤位的年度現金流將更高。

Let's now briefly turn to progress on our four key priorities: Improving the customer experience, operating in CapEx efficiencies, capturing and retaining high-value customers, and securing additional complementary nondilutive financing to accelerate growth.

現在讓我們簡要介紹我們四個關鍵優先事項的進展：改善客戶體驗、提高資本支出效率、吸引和留住高價值客戶以及獲得額外的補充非稀釋性融資以加速成長。

Improving customer experience remains our number one priority, and our strong momentum from last year continues. This quarter, we experienced lower uptime on certain equipment types due to faulty firmware updates that were largely rectified in July, and we decided to take that opportunity to tackle some legacy hardware issues across multiple charger types that resulted in higher associated maintenance costs.

改善客戶體驗仍然是我們的首要任務，我們去年的強勁勢頭仍在繼續。本季度，由於韌體更新錯誤（已於 7 月基本修復），導致某些類型的設備正常運行時間較短，我們決定藉此機會解決多種充電器類型的一些遺留硬體問題，這些問題導致相關維護成本增加。

These efforts are fully aligned with our goal to continually improve the customer experience, and we are already seeing these efforts pay off with much higher throughput per stall in July. Building larger public sites with six to stall stalls is now our standard configuration. At the end of the second quarter, 24% of our sites had six stalls or more.

這些努力與我們不斷改善客戶體驗的目標完全一致，而且我們已經看到這些努力取得了回報，七月份每個攤位的吞吐量大大提高。建造更大的公共場所，設有六至十個攤位現在是我們的標準配置。截至第二季末，我們 24% 的站點擁有 6 個或更多攤位。

We continue to deploy high-power chargers. The number of stalls served by a 350-kilowatt charger is now 57%, up from 41% a year ago and 25% two years ago. Autocharge+, our seamless plug-and-charge capability, continued to gain traction, accounting for 28% of sessions initiated. Finally, our customer success metric of One & Done increased 1 percentage-point this quarter versus last year, with 95% of sessions resulting in a successful charge on the first try.

我們繼續部署高功率充電器。目前，配備 350 千瓦充電器的攤位數量為 57%，高於一年前的 41% 和兩年前的 25%。Autocharge+ 是我們無縫即插即充的功能，其使用量持續成長，佔發起會話的 28%。最後，本季我們的客戶成功率指標「一次完成」比去年同期提高了 1 個百分點，其中 95% 的會話在第一次嘗試時就成功完成收費。

As we detailed in our first quarter earnings call in May, we expect that the impact of increased tariffs on our CapEx will be more than offset with capital efficiencies we've identified and implemented, and there is near zero impact on our operating costs from tariffs.

正如我們在五月第一季財報電話會議上所詳述的那樣，我們預計，關稅上調對我們的資本支出的影響將被我們確定和實施的資本效率所抵消，而且關稅對我們的營運成本的影響幾乎為零。

EVgo continues to meet all our milestones in the development of our next-generation charging architecture we are jointly developing with Delta Electronics. We are on track to have our prototype and initial deployment in the back half of 2026. We remain focused on improving the profitability of the overall business while investing in the future growth of the company. We expect continued improvement in G&A as a percent of revenue throughout 2025.

EVgo 在與台達電子共同開發的下一代充電架構的發展過程中不斷實現所有里程碑。我們預計在 2026 年下半年推出原型並進行初步部署。我們將繼續致力於提高整體業務的獲利能力，同時投資於公司的未來成長。我們預計，2025 年 G&A 佔收入的百分比將持續提高。

Over half of our throughput in Q2 came from frequent use sources, rideshare, OEM charging credit programs, and EVgo subscription plans. This quarter, we've added to our dynamic pricing, digital marketing, and customer acquisition and reactivation capabilities with the deployment and use of AI agents to optimize and increase the effectiveness of our campaigns.

我們第二季的吞吐量有一半以上來自頻繁使用來源、共乘、OEM 充電信用計劃和 EVgo 訂閱計劃。本季度，我們透過部署和使用人工智慧代理來優化和提高我們行銷活動的有效性，增強了動態定價、數位行銷以及客戶獲取和重新激活能力。

In certain geographies, we launched seasonal-based pricing to help cover the increased costs from summer utility tariffs. Our second pilot site with native NACS cables went live in June. The focus of the initial pilot in February was to validate technology. And for the second pilot, our focus is to get an early read on our ability to attract Tesla drivers with the NACS cables installed. While it remains very early, we are encouraged by the fact that since going live with the NACS cables, this site has had significantly more usage from Tesla drivers as it had prior to installing the NACS cables.

在某些地區，我們推出了基於季節的定價，以幫助彌補夏季公用事業費用增加的成本。我們的第二個採用原生 NACS 電纜的試點站點於 6 月上線。二月初步試點的重點是驗證技術。對於第二個試點，我們的重點是儘早了解安裝 NACS 電纜後吸引特斯拉駕駛員的能力。雖然現在還為時過早，但令我們感到鼓舞的是，自從使用 NACS 電纜以來，該站點的特斯拉駕駛員使用量比安裝 NACS 電纜之前有了顯著增加。

Once we scale these cables across the rest of our network and because our charging stations are faster than Tesla and closer to where Tesla drivers live, work and go about their lives, we expect to see potentially significant growth in usage per stall.

一旦我們將這些電纜擴展到我們網路的其餘部分，並且由於我們的充電站比特斯拉更快並且更接近特斯拉駕駛員居住、工作和生活的地方，我們預計每個停車位的使用量可能會顯著增長。

This is because we expect to attract a greater share of Tesla drivers than before, and these drivers still make up the majority of EVs on the road. In August, we expect to add 30 more NACS cables to more sites, and we expect to add around 100 NACS cables to sites on a retrofit basis through the rest of the year.

這是因為我們預計將吸引比以前更多的特斯拉司機，而這些駕駛者仍然佔道路上電動車的大多數。8 月份，我們預計將在更多站點增加 30 條 NACS 電纜，並且我們預計在今年剩餘時間內將透過改造的方式在站點增加約 100 條 NACS 電纜。

Finally, we are in construction of our first flagship sites with General Motors. We look forward to opening these stations, which will feature up to 20 stalls and offer features like overhead canopies, lighting for an elevated customer experience.

最後，我們正在與通用汽車合作建造我們的第一個旗艦工廠。我們期待這些站點的開放，它們將設有多達 20 個攤位，並提供高架遮篷、照明等功能，以提升客戶體驗。

We've made huge strategic progress on financing this quarter with the closing of a low-cost commercial bank facility. We expect to close our second sale of 30C income tax credits this week for our 2024 vintage portfolio for an anticipated $17 million of gross proceeds. As I said earlier, we now expect 45% CapEx offsets for our 2025 vintage stalls.

本季度，隨著低成本商業銀行融資的結束，我們在融資方面取得了巨大的策略進展。我們預計本週將完成針對 2024 年投資組合的第二次 30C 所得稅抵免銷售，預計總收益為 1,700 萬美元。正如我之前所說，我們現在預計 2025 年復古攤位的資本支出補償為 45%。

Paul will now cover more detail on the commercial bank facility and how that relates to higher long-term estimates, our financial performance for Q2 and our updated outlook for 2025.

保羅現在將更詳細地介紹商業銀行融資，以及它與更高的長期估計、我們第二季的財務業績以及我們對 2025 年的最新展望的關係。

Thank you, Badar. I'll walk us through the summary loan terms for this facility. Flexible loan structure allows EVgo to build over 1,500 new public and dedicated stalls over the next three years and finances the 400 existing public stalls we added as collateral.

謝謝你，巴達爾。我將向我們介紹該設施的貸款條款概要。靈活的貸款結構使 EVgo 能夠在未來三年內建造 1,500 多個新的公共和專用攤位，並為我們作為抵押品增加的 400 個現有公共攤位提供資金。

As Badar mentioned earlier, facility allows us to finance stalls that wouldn't have been eligible for debt financing under the DOE loan. The interest rate is SOFR plus 3.25% with a 25 basis points increase at the beginning of year five. Facility has a five year term and a three year deployment period.

正如巴達爾之前提到的，該設施使我們能夠為那些根據 DOE 貸款無法獲得債務融資的攤位提供融資。利率為 SOFR 加 3.25%，第五年初增加 25 個基點。該設施的期限為五年，部署期為三年。

EVgo will be able to draw against the loan facility monthly after stall is operationalized for 60% of costs, including CapEx, capitalized G&A, and $31,000 of deployment expenses. As collateral for the loan, EVgo contributed 400 operational stalls into a project level SPV, and we received $48 million of gross proceeds in July after closing. We expect to see incremental network growth from this facility starting in 2026 as it typically takes EVgo 12 to 18 months to get a site operational.

攤位投入營運後，EVgo 將能夠每月從貸款中提取 60% 的成本，包括資本支出、資本化的一般及行政費用以及 31,000 美元的部署費用。作為貸款的抵押品，EVgo 向專案級 SPV 貢獻了 400 個營運攤位，我們在 7 月結束後獲得了 4,800 萬美元的總收益。我們預計從 2026 年開始該設施將實現網路增量成長，因為 EVgo 通常需要 12 到 18 個月才能使站點投入運作。

In terms of expected stalls in operation, we are now including estimates of growth net of removals, averaging roughly 130 per year through our EVgo ReNew program over this entire period, where we are removing legacy equipment from the network.

就預期營運中的攤位數量而言，我們現在包括了扣除拆除數量後的增長估計，在整個期間，透過我們的 EVgo ReNew 計劃，平均每年約有 130 個攤位，在此期間，我們正在從網路中移除舊設備。

EVgo now is fully capitalized to have roughly 14,000 projected public stalls by the end of 2029, which will increase operational efficiencies by leveraging economies of scale. This is approximately 3,500 stalls more than our previous estimate.

EVgo 目前已完全投入運營，預計到 2029 年底將擁有約 14,000 個公共攤位，這將透過利用規模經濟來提高營運效率。這比我們之前估計的數量大約多了 3,500 個攤位。

As described in our fourth quarter 2024 earnings call in March, our unit economics continue to grow, and we expect to realize the operating leverage in our model through increased throughput per stall per day, leveraging fixed costs per stall, dependent costs such as rent and a reduction in maintenance costs through our next-generation charging architecture.

正如我們 3 月在 2024 年第四季度收益電話會議上所述，我們的單位經濟效益持續增長，我們預計透過提高每個攤位每天的吞吐量、利用每個攤位的固定成本、租金等相關成本以及透過我們的下一代充電架構降低維護成本來實現我們模型中的營運槓桿。

EVgo anticipates that in 2029, our stalls will generate $90,000 to $104,000 per year in revenue, charging network gross margin per stall in the range of 50% to 52% and annual cash flow per stall in the $38,000 to $47,000 range.

EVgo 預計，到 2029 年，我們的攤位每年將產生 90,000 至 104,000 美元的收入，每個攤位的網路毛利率在 50% 至 52% 之間，每個攤位的年現金流在 38,000 至 47,000 美元之間。

Adjusted EBITDA generation is also particularly strong. Because these per stall cash flows include all costs other than fixed costs, which will be covered by this year, the stall base cash flows fall straight to the bottom line. So by 2029, the additional roughly 5,000 stalls that we plan to build that year will generate approximately $200 million incremental adjusted EBITDA annually.

調整後的 EBITDA 生成也特別強勁。由於每個攤位的現金流包括除固定成本之外的所有成本（這些成本將在今年覆蓋），因此攤位基礎現金流直接計入利潤。因此，到 2029 年，我們計劃當年額外建造的約 5,000 個攤位每年將產生約 2 億美元的增量調整後 EBITDA。

As we have discussed before, this represents a very compelling annual return on a onetime net CapEx per stall of $95,000. Applying this high and low-end annual cash flow per stall from our unit economics to the anticipated stalls in operation at the end of 2029, you have a very compelling business with $1.2 billion to $1.5 billion in annual revenue from the owned and operated charging business, generating $380 million to $570 million in annual adjusted EBITDA at 32% to 38% margins.

正如我們之前所討論的，這意味著每個攤位一次性淨資本支出 95,000 美元的年度回報非常誘人。將我們單位經濟學中每個攤位的高端和低端年度現金流應用於 2029 年底預計運營的攤位數量，您將獲得一項非常引人注目的業務，自有和運營的充電業務每年可帶來 12 億至 15 億美元的收入，年度調整後 EBITDA 為 3.8 億至 5.7 億美元，利潤率為 32% 至 38%。

We are assuming our total adjusted G&A increases up to 2 times in real dollar terms as we add to our growth G&A to build out the network, which again demonstrates the operating leverage in this business as the network is growing 4 times.

我們假設，隨著我們增加成長型 G&A 來建立網絡，我們的總調整後 G&A 將以實際美元計算增加 2 倍，這再次證明了該業務的營運槓桿，因為網路成長了 4 倍。

With full utilization of the current loans, we expect to exit 2029 with a low net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio of under 2.5 times which provides us with additional debt capacity to finance growth well into the future. Since infrastructure companies with predictable adjusted EBITDA generation and margins typically have higher leverage ratios of 5 times to 6 times, our expected ratio of less than 2.5 times would provide us with significant incremental leverage capacity.

透過充分利用現有貸款，我們預計到 2029 年，淨債務與調整後 EBITDA 的比率將低於 2.5 倍，這將為我們提供額外的負債能力，為未來的成長提供資金。由於具有可預測的調整後 EBITDA 生成和利潤率的基礎設施公司的槓桿率通常較高，為 5 倍至 6 倍，因此我們預期的低於 2.5 倍的槓桿率將為我們提供顯著的增量槓桿能力。

Now turning to more detail on our second quarter results. Over the past three years, we have grown our operational stall base by 2.6 times, while our revenues have grown 14 times. Increasing our scale and maintaining our focus on costs allows us to deliver improving bottom line performance.

現在來詳細了解我們的第二季業績。過去三年裡，我們的營業攤位數量增加了2.6倍，而收入增加了14倍。擴大規模並持續關注成本使我們能夠提高獲利績效。

Our public network throughput per stall has grown 2.5 times in the last two years, significantly outpacing our public charging network stall growth of 1.4 times. Throughput per public stall was 281 kilowatt hours per stall per day in Q2 compared to 230 a year ago, a 22% increase and up 6% sequentially. After a recent firmware update and incremental investment in Q2 maintenance, July average daily throughput approached 300 kilowatt hours per stall per day.

過去兩年，我們的每個攤位的公共網路吞吐量成長了 2.5 倍，遠遠超過公共充電網路攤位 1.4 倍的成長速度。第二季度每個公共攤位每天的用電量為 281 千瓦時，而去年同期為 230 千瓦時，增長了 22%，比上一季增長了 6%。經過最近的韌體更新和第二季度維護的增量投資後，7 月平均日吞吐量接近每個攤位每天 300 千瓦時。

In the second quarter, total public network utilization increased to 22%, up from 20% a year ago. Total throughput on the public network during the second quarter was 88 gigawatt hours, a 35% increase compared to last year. Revenue for Q2 was $98 million, which represents 47% year-over-year increase with growth in nearly all revenue categories. Total charging network revenues were $51.8 million, exhibiting a 46% year-over-year increase.

第二季度，公共網路總利用率從一年前的20%上升至22%。第二季公共網路總吞吐量為88千兆瓦時，比去年同期成長35％。第二季的營收為 9,800 萬美元，年增 47%，幾乎所有營收類別均成長。充電網路總收入為 5,180 萬美元，年增 46%。

Extend revenues were $37.4 million, delivering growth of 35%. We delivered more charging equipment to PFJ in the second quarter than anticipated as they accelerated their purchasing. Ancillary revenues of $8.8 million were up 157% versus last year, driven primarily by growth of the hubs business for autonomous vehicle companies.

Extend 營收為 3,740 萬美元，成長 35%。由於 PFJ 加快了採購速度，我們在第二季度向其交付的充電設備數量超出預期。輔助收入為 880 萬美元，較去年同期成長 157%，主要得益於自動駕駛汽車公司樞紐業務的成長。

Charging network gross margin in the second quarter was 37.2%, up 210 basis points from the prior year. Adjusted gross profit of $28.4 million in the second quarter of 2025 is up from $17.7 million in the second quarter of 2024. Adjusted gross margin was 28.9% in Q2, an increase of 240 basis points compared to last year.

第二季充電網路毛利率為37.2%，較上年同期上升210個基點。2025 年第二季調整後毛利為 2,840 萬美元，高於 2024 年第二季的 1,770 萬美元。第二季調整後毛利率為28.9%，較去年同期增加240個基點。

Adjusted G&A as a percentage of revenue also improved from 38.5% in the second quarter of 2024 to 30.9% in Q2 of this year, demonstrating the operating leverage effect. Adjusted EBITDA was negative $1.9 million in the second quarter of 2025, a $6 million improvement versus the second quarter of 2024.

調整後的 G&A 佔營收的百分比也從 2024 年第二季的 38.5% 提高到今年第二季的 30.9%，體現了營運槓桿效應。2025 年第二季調整後 EBITDA 為負 190 萬美元，比 2024 年第二季改善 600 萬美元。

Now turning to our 2025 guidance. EVgo anticipates we will add 800 to 850 new public and dedicated stalls in 2025, with over half the stalls going operational in the fourth quarter. Total fiscal net CapEx has been reduced to $140 million to $160 million, reflecting the capital efficiencies we are realizing this year and faster expected development timelines, resulting in less capital spend in 2025 for 2026 vintage stalls. In addition, we forecast to add new extend stalls of 475 to 525 this year.

現在轉向我們的 2025 年指導。EVgo 預計，到 2025 年，我們將增加 800 至 850 個新的公共和專用攤位，其中超過一半的攤位將在第四季度投入營運。總財政淨資本支出已減少至 1.4 億至 1.6 億美元，反映了我們今年實現的資本效率和更快的預期開發時間表，從而減少了 2025 年用於 2026 年老式攤位的資本支出。此外，我們預計今年將新增475至525個擴展攤位。

Revenue for the full year is expected to be $350 million to $380 million, an increase of $5 million at the midpoint compared to our prior guidance. Charging network revenue are estimated to be roughly 60% of total revenues in 2025. We're expecting sequential improvement in the third and fourth quarters for charging network revenues. We expect the 2025 charging network margin profile to be like 2024. Our third quarter charging network margin will decrease seasonally due to higher summer electricity rates and resume its upward trajectory in Q4.

預計全年營收為 3.5 億美元至 3.8 億美元，與我們先前的預期相比，中位數增加 500 萬美元。預計到 2025 年充電網路收入將佔總收入的 60% 左右。我們預計第三季和第四季充電網路收入將季比改善。我們預計 2025 年充電網路利潤率將與 2024 年類似。由於夏季電價上漲，我們第三季的充電網路利潤率將季節性下降，並在第四季度恢復上升趨勢。

Full year extend revenues are anticipated to increase around 25% versus last year, and ancillary revenues will be more than double this year. We expect both eXtend and ancillary revenues will be lower than Q2 in the third quarter. eXtend revenues are expected to be relatively evenly distributed in the third and fourth quarter. Ancillary revenues are anticipated to have a much higher fourth quarter following revenue recognition milestones.

預計全年延伸收入將比去年成長 25% 左右，輔助收入今年將成長一倍以上。我們預計第三季 eXtend 和輔助收入都將低於第二季。預計第三季和第四季 eXtend 營收將相對平均分佈。預計在收入確認里程碑之後，第四季輔助收入將會大幅增加。

We're investing in accelerating the growth of EVgo, including investments in our operations and deployment team to increase stall growth as well as our next-generation architecture. Adjusted G&A for 2025 is expected to be flat to the Q4 2024 run rate plus inflation, reflecting investments in growth with some offsets due to efficiencies. These investments for accelerated growth will continue in 2026, and we, therefore, anticipate similar growth in adjusted G&A next year.

我們正在投資加速 EVgo 的成長，包括投資我們的營運和部署團隊以增加攤位成長以及我們的下一代架構。預計 2025 年調整後的 G&A 將與 2024 年第四季的運行率加上通貨膨脹率持平，這反映了對成長的投資，但由於效率的提高而有所抵消。這些用於加速成長的投資將在 2026 年繼續進行，因此我們預計明年調整後的 G&A 將實現類似的成長。

EVgo continues to make progress towards adjusted EBITDA breakeven. In 2025, we continue to expect adjusted EBITDA in the range of negative $5 million to positive $10 million. Following our anticipated revenue trajectory for the back half of the year, we expect Q3 adjusted EBITDA to be negative and lower than Q2 and positive for the fourth quarter. Topline growth financed with low-cost nondilutive capital, coupled with leverage in our operating model is expected to deliver compelling shareholder returns. We look forward to keeping you apprised of our progress.

EVgo 繼續朝著調整後的 EBITDA 損益平衡邁進。2025 年，我們繼續預期調整後的 EBITDA 將在負 500 萬美元至正 1,000 萬美元之間。根據我們預期的下半年營收走勢，我們預期第三季調整後的 EBITDA 將為負值且低於第二季度，而第四季則為正值。透過低成本非稀釋性資本資助的收入成長，加上我們營運模式中的槓桿作用，預計將為股東帶來可觀的回報。我們期待隨時向您通報我們的進展。

Operator, we can now open the call for Q&A.

接線員，我們現在可以開始問答環節。

David Arcaro, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的戴維‧阿卡羅。

Maybe first on the CapEx trends and offsets here. Great to see. I was just wondering if there was a geographic trend that's driving the capital offsets going to 45%. Were you targeting states in a different way based on demand that you're seeing? Or were there changes in state incentives? Just wondering what shifted that geographic trend around.

也許首先要討論的是資本支出趨勢和抵銷情況。很高興看到。我只是想知道是否存在一種地理趨勢，推動資本抵銷達到 45%。您是否根據所看到的需求以不同的方式瞄準各州？或者國家激勵措施發生了變化？我只是想知道是什麼改變了這種地理趨勢。

Yes. Well, look, I think -- thank you, David, for the question. I think that one of the key things we wanted to communicate here is that, not only are we focused on EBITDA generation with strong margins, we are also very much focused on delivering strong returns on capital for shareholders. And so, being able to lower our vintage CapEx per stall by almost 30% is very much aligned with that.

是的。嗯，看，我想──謝謝你，大衛，提出這個問題。我認為我們在這裡想要傳達的關鍵點之一是，我們不僅專注於創造具有強勁利潤率的 EBITDA，我們還非常注重為股東帶來豐厚的資本回報。因此，我們能夠將每個攤位的資本支出降低近 30%，這與此非常一致。

Our first priority, of course, is to lower gross CapEx per stall, which is a trajectory we've been on for some time, and we've been successful at, and we are looking to continue with our next-generation architecture.

當然，我們的首要任務是降低每個攤位的總資本支出，這是我們一段時間以來一直堅持的方向，並且已經取得了成功，我們希望繼續推進我們的下一代架構。

On the offsets, we're absolutely pleased with where we are this year. We had a very high level of offsets for vintage 2024 in the 50% range. This year, the offsets are also looking like they're going to be very strong. We've seen that already for our first half year deployments where offsets are at that sort of 45% range.

在補償方面，我們對今年的進展非常滿意。我們對 2024 年份的抵銷率非常高，在 50% 左右。今年，抵銷力度看起來也將非常強勁。我們在上半年的部署中已經看到這一點，其中抵消額處於 45% 的範圍內。

And these grants are really coming from all over the United States, to be perfectly honest. For the first half of the year, we have a lot of grants in -- grants and incentives from California, but the rest are coming from states like Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Washington. And so, it's really all over the United States. I think a key point here, of course, is that regardless of what happens with federal incentives, state grants and utility incentives remain alive and well.

說實話，這些資助實際上來自美國各地。今年上半年，我們獲得了大量來自加州的撥款和獎勵，但其餘的撥款來自佛羅裡達州、俄亥俄州、賓州、華盛頓州等州。所以，它確實遍布美國各地。當然，我認為這裡的一個關鍵點是，無論聯邦激勵措施如何變化，州政府補助和公用事業激勵措施仍然有效。

And I was just wondering, any updates on the DOE loan in terms of availability, any recent conversations you've had around drawdowns that you would highlight? I know you're not currently looking for one, but curious just any background color there.

我只是想知道，關於 DOE 貸款可用性方面有什麼更新嗎？您最近就貸款提取問題進行過什麼討論，可以強調一下嗎？我知道您目前沒有在尋找它，但只是好奇那裡的任何背景顏色。

Yes. I mean, the project is performing very strongly, and that's the nature of the dialogue that we have with the DOE. It represents excellent credit quality, which hopefully you can see from our earnings today. We are not dependent on the IRA or 30C remaining in place, and so our dialogue with the DOE LPO staff remains a very productive conversation.

是的。我的意思是，該項目表現非常強勁，這就是我們與能源部對話的本質。它代表著優秀的信用質量，希望您能從我們今天的收益中看到這一點。我們並不依賴 IRA 或 30C 的繼續實施，因此我們與 DOE LPO 工作人員的對話仍然非常有成效。

I think the big strategic news this quarter is that we are no longer reliant on just one source of financing. The proceeds, as we just laid out today from the commercial bank loan and the gross proceeds from 30C are 3 times what a quarterly advance would have been if we -- from the DOE this quarter. And so, we're very focused on not just being disciplined in our allocation of capital, but also disciplined in the growth of our balance sheet.

我認為本季的重大策略新聞是我們不再僅依賴單一的融資來源。正如我們今天所述，從商業銀行貸款中獲得的收益以及 30C 的總收益是本季度從 DOE 獲得的季度預付款的 3 倍。因此，我們不僅注重嚴格配置資本，也注重嚴格成長資產負債表。

And I think the good news or one of the many sources of good news is that there's really no time limit on when we request advances for eligible CapEx with the DOE loan other than the five year availability period. And so we can incur the CapEx now. And if we want to drop it into the DOE loans at some point within the next five years, we can or with the commercial bank facility. Of course, the commercial bank facility also allows us to fund stalls that are not eligible for the DOE loan, which I think is also very attractive. It allows all of our stalls at this point to be levered going forward.

我認為好消息或眾多好消息之一是，除了五年可用期外，我們申請 DOE 貸款合格資本支出預付款的時間實際上沒有限制。因此我們現在可以承擔資本支出。如果我們想在未來五年內的某個時候將其投入到能源部貸款中，我們可以透過商業銀行貸款。當然，商業銀行貸款也允許我們為沒有資格獲得 DOE 貸款的攤位提供資金，我認為這也非常有吸引力。它使得我們目前的所有攤位都可以在未來得到利用。

Chris Dendrinos, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Chris Dendrinos。

I wanted to ask a little bit on the utilization rate this quarter. And I think you mentioned that there was a firmware update that went through. And then in July, you all had, like, I guess, maybe a significant increase in the utilization rate as that got rectified. Can you maybe just provide a bit more detail about that? Maybe how long the issue was lasting and sort of what you're seeing now coming out of that?

我想問一下本季的利用率。我認為您提到已經進行了韌體更新。然後在 7 月份，隨著這個問題得到糾正，我想，利用率可能會大幅提高。您能否提供更多有關該問題的細節？這個問題持續了多久？現在您看到了什麼結果？

Thanks, Chris. Yes, we did have a faulty firmware update at the beginning of the quarter in Q2, which is largely addressed at this point. We -- given that we had these issues, we did proactively take that opportunity to address some legacy charger issues at the same time and invested in maintenance to get -- really just to get a stronger network.

謝謝，克里斯。是的，我們在第二季初確實遇到了韌體更新錯誤，目前這個問題已基本解決。鑑於我們有這些問題，我們確實主動抓住機會，同時解決一些遺留的充電器問題，並投資維護，以獲得更強大的網路。

We thought that made sense to tackle both issues at the same time. And then, as we said on the call, we can see average throughput per stall for July approach 300, which is quite a bit higher than what we saw in the Q2 average.

我們認為同時解決這兩個問題是有意義的。然後，正如我們在電話中所說的那樣，我們可以看到 7 月每個攤位的平均吞吐量接近 300，這比我們在第二季度看到的平均吞吐量高出不少。

I think what's really kind of most interesting here is that as an indication of true demand on the network, the average throughput on the chargers that -- where we weren't experiencing these issues was meaningfully higher than the chargers, where we were taking these steps on maintenance and the firmware.

我認為這裡真正最有趣的是，作為網路真實需求的指標，沒有遇到這些問題的充電器的平均吞吐量明顯高於我們採取維護和韌體措施的充電器的平均吞吐量。

And I think that actually also really validates the decision and the path that we're on with our next-generation architecture where -- as I said before, I don't believe that really anybody else in our sector or very many others in our sector is able to do where we own the firmware and the development of critical components like the dispenser. And it's very much part of our journey of taking that customer experience to the next level.

我認為這實際上也真正驗證了我們在下一代架構方面的決定和路徑——正如我之前所說，我認為我們行業中的任何其他人或我們行業中的許多其他人都無法做到這一點，我們擁有固件和關鍵組件（如分配器）的開發。這也是我們將客戶體驗提升到新水平的旅程的重要組成部分。

And then maybe on the NACS cable, and you highlighted some promising, I guess, call it, initial results from some of the deployments that you've done so far. I guess how are you thinking about deploying those longer term? And sort of what are you looking for that would maybe drive you to accelerate deployment? Or are you already seeing things given the kind of results you've seen so far that would drive you to maybe try to accelerate the deployment of those NACS cables?

然後也許在 NACS 電纜上，您強調了一些有希望的，我想，可以稱之為迄今為止所做的一些部署的初步結果。我猜您打算如何長期部署這些措施？您正在尋找什麼來推動您加速部署？或者，根據您目前所看到的結果，您是否已經看到了一些事情，這些事情會促使您嘗試加速部署這些 NACS 電纜？

Chris, I mean, I think that the NACS cable and the autonomous vehicle space are both, I think, really interesting sources of upside for the company here. And we can talk about the AV space maybe later on. But on the NACS, we had a couple of pilot sites in the first half of the year. One was around technology validation. It's super important that we are, again, focusing on the customer experience, making sure the technology works. But the second site was really geared around are we able to attract more Tesla drivers.

克里斯，我的意思是，我認為 NACS 電纜和自動駕駛汽車領域都是該公司真正有趣的盈利來源。也許稍後我們可以討論 AV 領域。但在 NACS 上，我們在今年上半年有幾個試點站點。一個是關於技術驗證。再次強調，我們專注於客戶體驗、確保技術有效，這一點非常重要。但第二個網站真正關注的是，我們是否能夠吸引更多的特斯拉駕駛者。

And I would say that I think the team is really pretty excited about the results. They're early, but what I said on the call is that Tesla driver usage was significantly higher on that site than pre-installation of the NACS cable. I do think it's early days. We're going to have about 30 cables, NACS cables, installed in August. And we're -- at this point, we're looking at 100 for the full year. These all retrofit before we start doing native, so -- not retrofit, but original equipment connectors in next year. But -- I mean, I think that if we continue to see what we saw so far, for sure, we'll be looking at our ability to deploy more NACS cables.

我想說的是，我認為團隊對於結果確實非常興奮。他們來得還早，但我在電話中說的是，特斯拉駕駛員在該站點的使用率明顯高於 NACS 電纜安裝前的情況。我確實認為現在還為時過早。我們將在八月安裝約 30 條電纜、NACS 電纜。目前，我們預計全年將達到 100 個。這些都是在我們開始做本地產品之前進行的改造，所以 - 不是改造，而是明年的原始設備連接器。但是——我的意思是，我認為如果我們繼續看到迄今為止所看到的情況，我們肯定會考慮部署更多 NACS 電纜的能力。

But we want to just be certain about this. Everything that we've done at EVgo has been very thoughtful and very analytically based, whether it's the algorithms and site selection through to the AI in our marketing or AI agents in our marketing and customer outreach. Here, we don't want to pull out a productive CCS cable unless we're sure we can make it an even more productive NACS cable, which, again, the first site is definitely showing, but that's what we're looking at.

但我們只是想確定這一點。我們在 EVgo 所做的一切都是經過深思熟慮並基於分析的，無論是演算法和選址，還是行銷中的人工智慧，還是行銷和客戶拓展中的人工智慧代理。在這裡，我們不想拉出一條高效的 CCS 電纜，除非我們確信我們可以將它製成一條更有效率的 NACS 電纜，這一點，第一個站點肯定已經顯示了出來，但這正是我們正在考慮的。

Bill Peterson, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的比爾彼得森。

This is [Sikuo Yang] on for Bill. Your updated build schedule looks quite robust, especially in the '28 to '29 timeframe. Can you help us understand why the builds are so back half weighted if you have the liquidity available to you now? And how do you think about balancing the EV VIO to DCFC ratio across the market versus capturing market share early on from competitors potentially?

我是 [Sikuo Yang]，代表 Bill 報道。您更新的建置計劃看起來非常穩健，特別是在 '28 至 '29 時間範圍內。如果您現在擁有可用的流動性，您能否幫助我們理解為什麼建構的權重如此偏低？您如何看待平衡整個市場的 EV VIO 與 DCFC 比率，以及儘早從競爭對手手中奪取市場份額？

Yes. I mean, look, I think the -- on the build schedule, there are really three things that have increased the schedule versus what we last indicated, which would have been about six months ago after the DOE loan. Those are the commercial bank facility and the fact that we are lowering our CapEx per stall. We've been talking about it for a year, but we've never reflected that lower CapEx per stall in our long-term forecast. And then lastly, we are generating quite significant excess operational cash flow. And so, we thought for simplicity's sake, we would assume that we'd be reinvesting that cash flow into new stalls.

是的。我的意思是，你看，我認為——在建設計劃上，實際上有三件事導致計劃與我們上次指出的相比有所增加，上次指出的是在能源部貸款之後的六個月左右。這些是商業銀行便利性以及我們正在降低每個攤位的資本支出的事實。我們已經討論了一年，但我們從未在長期預測中反映出每個攤位較低的資本支出。最後，我們正在產生相當可觀的超額營運現金流。因此，為了簡單起見，我們假設現金流量再投資於新的攤位。

To be honest, the reality is, as Paul said, we've actually got fairly a reasonable amount of capacity for additional leverage in the back half of this five year period. But regardless, we think that's a good enough proxy. And that results in a very significant increase of stalls that we deployed that we're now fully capitalized for, which I think is the important point.

說實話，正如保羅所說，現實情況是，在這五年的後半段，我們實際上已經擁有了相當合理的額外槓桿能力。但無論如何，我們認為這是一個足夠好的代理。這導致我們部署的攤位數量大幅增加，現在我們已充分準備好資本，我認為這是重點。

In terms of whether we could go faster in the very near term, the next year or two, we really are -- we've been talking about a 12- to 18-month timeline that takes from start to finish to deploy stalls. And that's still, I think, in place. I think in the medium term, though, we are looking at ways where we can reduce that overall elapse time.

關於我們是否可以在短期內（未來一兩年內）加快速度，我們確實在談論從開始到結束部署攤位需要 12 到 18 個月的時間表。我認為，這項政策依然有效。但我認為從中期來看，我們正在尋找可以減少整體耗時的方法。

We know and the market knows that it is possible to deploy at a much higher rate. We've seen certainly one competitor deploy at a significantly higher rate. And of course, we've got a lot of folks in our team from Tesla today. And so I expect that over the course of the next year or so, you may hear me provide updates on what we're doing to be able to reduce that elapse time and effectively go bigger and faster.

我們知道，市場也知道，以更高的速度部署是可能的。我們確實看到有一家競爭對手的部署速度明顯更快。當然，今天我們團隊中有很多來自特斯拉的人。因此，我預計在接下來的一年左右的時間裡，您可能會聽到我提供有關我們正在採取哪些措施的最新信息，以便能夠減少這段時間並有效地擴大規模、加快速度。

Maybe to follow up on an earlier question about utilization. Should we expect to see any kind of seasonality from here on out? And do you maybe expect to see increased usage by Tesla users with the NACS integration driving higher utilization over time? Also, do you recognize that also we've seen third-party reports that utilization kind of fell in the second quarter across the US public network. So if there's anything else to call out there, that would be great.

也許是為了跟進之前關於使用率的問題。從現在開始我們是否應該期待看到任何季節性的變化？您是否希望看到特斯拉用戶的使用量隨著 NACS 整合而增加，從而隨著時間的推移提高使用率？另外，您是否意識到我們也看到第三方報告第二季度美國公共網路的利用率有所下降。因此，如果還有其他事情需要說明的話，那就太好了。

Well, for sure, on the NACS cable, I mean, that's been the hypothesis that we've talked about, and so to the earlier question, we are quite excited about that. It's early days, and we don't want to get carried away. But I think it's really important just to bring out something that we've also been talking about, which is that we saw pretty healthy growth in throughput per stall sequentially, and that was because of rising charge rates.

嗯，當然，關於 NACS 電纜，我的意思是，這是我們討論過的假設，所以對於之前的問題，我們對此感到非常興奮。現在還為時過早，我們不想太過衝動。但我認為，提出我們一直在談論的事情非常重要，那就是我們看到每個攤位的吞吐量連續健康成長，這是由於收費標準上升所致。

The higher the charge rate, the less the utilization we need for the same kilowatt hours dispensed. Our long-term forecast is actually only 23% to 26% utilization, but with an 80-kilowatt charge rate. And that actually translates to about a usage per stall -- kilowatt hours per stall that's about 60% greater than today.

充電率越高，消耗的相同千瓦時電能所需的利用率就越低。我們的長期預測實際上利用率僅為 23% 至 26%，但充電率為 80 千瓦。這實際上相當於每個攤位的用電量——每個攤位的千瓦時數比現在高出約 60%。

If we look back over the last three years, our charge rates have actually grown about 20 kilowatts in the last three years. And that's when we had slower chargers. three years ago, only 12% of our chargers were 350 kilowatt. Today, it's about 57%. 3 years ago, the charge rates in the cars were slower. So 20 kilowatts in three years going backwards, our long-term unit economics, as you can see in the chart, suggests a growth of just around 30 kilowatts in 4.5 years, but with faster machines and faster charging cars.

如果我們回顧過去三年，我們的充電率實際上在過去三年中增加了約 20 千瓦。那時我們的充電器速度較慢。三年前，只有 12% 的充電器功率為 350 千瓦。如今，這一比例約為 57%。 3 年前，汽車的充電速度較慢。因此，如果倒推三年，我們的長期單位經濟效益為 20 千瓦，正如您在圖表中看到的那樣，則表明 4.5 年內僅增長約 30 千瓦，但機器速度更快，汽車充電速度也更快。

And so we're -- this is a tailwind that we've been talking about, and I think we're really seeing that come through. And so it's really not just about utilization. It's really also about utilization and charge rate that's driving the throughput per stall up, and we're really pleased to see that.

所以，這就是我們一直在談論的順風，我認為我們確實看到它的出現。所以這其實不只涉及利用率。事實上，利用率和收費率也推動了每個攤位吞吐量的上升，我們很高興看到這一點。

And to your question about seasonality, yes, we do have seasonality in charge rates typically. We have seasonality in different parts of our business. But on charge rates, they tend to be a little lower in the winter months, tend to be a little higher in the summer months. But the growth that we've seen in the last three years -- (technical difficulty) --

關於季節性的問題，是的，我們的收費率通常具有季節性。我們的業務的不同部分都有季節性。但就收費標準而言，冬季的收費標準往往較低，夏季的收費標準往往較高。但我們在過去三年看到的成長--（技術難度）--

Operator, can we go to the next question?

接線員，我們可以進入下一個問題嗎？

Andres Sheppard, Cantor Fitzgerald.

安德烈斯‧謝潑德 (Andres Sheppard)、康托‧費茲傑拉 (Cantor Fitzgerald)。

Congratulations on the quarter. I think a lot of our key questions have been asked, but I wanted to maybe hone in on self-driving technology. As we're ramping up robotaxis and self-driving across the country, curious if you can maybe give us a sense of kind of your strategy to capture as much of this market share as possible. How are you thinking about capturing the autonomous vehicles that are ramping up? And what are some plans to maybe differentiate EVgo?

恭喜本季。我想我們已經問了很多關鍵問題，但我可能想集中討論一下自動駕駛技術。隨著我們在全國範圍內大力推廣自動駕駛計程車和無人駕駛技術，您是否可以向我們介紹一下您的策略，以盡可能多地佔領這一市場份額。您如何看待正在興起的自動駕駛汽車？有哪些計劃可以讓 EVgo 與眾不同？

Yes. I mean, look, I mean, along with the NACS cable, I think that this is one of the two sources of upside in the business that's probably not in anyone's forecast. We do think it's a really interesting and potentially significant source of upside if indeed the AV space grows, which certainly it does seem as though it's going to.

是的。我的意思是，你看，我的意思是，連同 NACS 電纜，我認為這是業務的兩個上行來源之一，可能沒有人能預測。我們確實認為，如果 AV 領域確實成長的話，這將是一個非常有趣且具有潛在重要優勢的來源，而現在看起來它確實會成長。

I know as I think you pointed out and others have, these are going to be electric vehicles and they're not looking to be charged in slow charging locations. That makes zero sense. So we have been building and operating dedicated sites for autonomous vehicle partners for a number of years. Last year, we more than doubled the number of stalls at these dedicated sites to serve the space to 110 stalls. And we actually separated it out in our stall disclosure. And our public disclosure, it's sort of wrapped up in what we call ancillary at the beginning of this year.

我知道，正如您和其他人指出的那樣，這些都是電動車，而且它們不會在充電速度慢的地方充電。這毫無意義。因此，多年來我們一直在為自動駕駛汽車合作夥伴建造和營運專用站點。去年，我們將這些專用場地的攤位數量增加了一倍多，達到 110 個攤位。我們實際上在攤位披露中將其分開。我們的公開披露在某種程度上與我們今年年初所說的輔助內容有關。

As Paul said in our guidance, we do expect to see a more than doubling of ancillary revenues this year over last year. And so we're pretty excited by it. We think that the kind of parties that we work with are pleased with the way that we're able to deploy fast charging speeds that are appropriate for the -- for those vehicles. Obviously, we're pretty good at it, building charging sites, whether they're public or for dedicated. And so we think that we've got a great relationship with these folks, and we're excited about the dialogue that we're having with them. And of course, now that we're fully capitalized and the commercial bank facility allows us to lever those stalls where we don't think they're eligible for DOE loan funding, we think we're in actually a really pretty good space and pretty good place.

正如保羅在我們的指導中所說，我們確實預計今年的輔助收入將比去年增長一倍以上。因此我們對此感到非常興奮。我們認為，與我們合作的各方對我們能夠部署適合這些車輛的快速充電速度的方式感到滿意。顯然，我們非常擅長建造充電站，無論是公共的還是專用的。因此，我們認為我們與這些人的關係很好，我們對與他們的對話感到非常興奮。當然，現在我們已經擁有充足的資本，商業銀行的便利性使我們能夠利用那些我們認為沒有資格獲得 DOE 貸款融資的攤位，我們認為我們實際上處於一個非常好的空間和非常好的位置。

And maybe just as a quick follow-up. Can you just remind us what are maybe the key catalysts to look for maybe in Q3 and Q4?

或許只是作為一個快速的後續行動。您能否提醒我們在第三季和第四季可能需要尋找的關鍵催化劑是什麼？

Well, look, I mean, we are just focused on executing the business, Andres. We're fully capitalized at this point. The charger issues that we talked about, the firmware and our choice to invest in the maintenance of some of these legacy issues is largely behind us, but we expect to be pretty much wrapped up with that activity by the early part of this Q3 period. I think that sort of just watch us execute. That's -- we're just heads down executing, and that's really what we're focused on.

嗯，你看，我的意思是，我們只是專注於執行業務，安德烈斯。目前，我們的資本已經充足。我們討論過的充電器問題、韌體以及我們選擇投資維護這些遺留問題基本上已經過去了，但我們預計在第三季初期就能基本完成這些活動。我認為這只是觀看我們執行的方式。那就是──我們只是埋頭苦幹，這才是我們真正關注的重點。

Stephen Gengaro, Stifel.

史蒂芬·根加羅（Stephen Gengaro），Stifel。

Two things for me. The first is pretty straightforward. I'm not sure you'll want to answer. But when we think about your guidance for this year, do you think as you get into next year you'll be positive EBITDA in every quarter?

對我來說有兩件事。第一個非常簡單。我不確定你是否願意回答。但當我們考慮您對今年的指導時，您是否認為到明年您每季的 EBITDA 都會為正？

Yes, Stephen, we're not going to get into the guidance for 2026, it's just so early. But I think that if you think about what's really driving EBITDA for us, it is the measure that we've spoken about for the last year -- the last several years now, which is that throughput per stall per day, and that's rising. That continues to rise. It's rising sequentially.

是的，史蒂芬，我們不會給 2026 年的指導，現在還太早。但我認為，如果你想想真正推動我們 EBITDA 成長的因素，那就是我們去年——過去幾年——一直在談論的指標，即每個攤位每天的吞吐量，而且這個數字還在上升。這一數字還在持續上升。它正在連續上升。

Yes, there's sometimes seasonality in that, again, in the winter months. It can be a little bit flattish in the kind of Q4 to Q1. But yes, that's going to be a big driver of growth in the business, and that's what we're seeing. So I think that's probably all I'm going to share at this point in terms of 2026.

是的，有時候這有季節性，例如在冬季。從第四季度到第一季度，情況可能會稍微平穩一些。但確實，這將成為業務成長的一大推動力，而這正是我們所看到的。所以我想，關於 2026 年，我現在要分享的可能就這些了。

And I guess the other thing, you mentioned earlier in the call in your prepared remarks about the economics of some of the chargers that are being driven by grants and maybe being a bit lighter in the beginning of the life cycle. Is that something that we will observe in the numbers -- throughput per stall? Like just so we kind of know what to look out for. Or is it just not big enough to kind of really move those numbers around too much?

我想另一件事，您在電話會議中準備好的發言中提到了關於一些充電器的經濟性，這些充電器是由補助金推動的，並且在生命週期的初期可能會輕一些。這是我們能在數字中觀察到的嗎——每個攤位的吞吐量？這樣我們就知道要注意什麼了。或者它還不夠大，不足以真正改變這些數字？

It can a little bit, Stephen. And I think that -- I think the really important point here is -- a couple of points here is that these are not federal incentives, right? So that's, I think, number one. I think that the state and utility space is very productive and supportive for EV charging infrastructure build-out.

有一點可以，史蒂芬。我認為——我認為這裡真正重要的一點是——這裡的幾點是，這些不是聯邦激勵措施，對嗎？所以我認為這是第一點。我認為國家和公用事業領域對電動車充電基礎設施建設非常有成效且支持。

I think that the second point is that even if they're a little less productive in the first sort of periods, first few periods, these are phenomenally strong returns on capital invested. And so from our perspective, yes, we're obviously looking at EBITDA generation and very strong EBITDA margins, which is the business that we've laid out here. But it's also important to us that we're deploying capital that's delivering strong returns for shareholders on the capital invested. And I think that's what we're seeing with some of our choices.

我認為第二點是，即使在最初幾個時期他們的生產力略低，但這些投資的資本回報率卻非常高。因此，從我們的角度來看，是的，我們顯然正在關注 EBITDA 的產生和非常強勁的 EBITDA 利潤率，這就是我們在這裡佈局的業務。但對我們而言，同樣重要的是，我們正在部署的資本能夠為股東帶來豐厚的投資回報。我認為這就是我們在一些選擇中看到的情況。

I think the fact that we've got such a large pipeline, which a lot of other smaller charging companies just don't have, allows us to move some stalls where we think we can get some great grants from one quarter to another or from one year to another. And that's what we saw this year where -- we did actually move some of our sites around. It forced us to push some sites from Q3 into Q4, but we thought that was worth it because the -- just the level of offsets is just so great and the returns, of course, on that capital is so strong.

我認為，我們擁有如此龐大的管道，而許多其他小型充電公司卻沒有，這使得我們能夠將一些攤位從一個季度轉移到另一個季度，或者從一年轉移到另一年，在這些攤位上，我們認為可以獲得一些大額補助。這就是我們今年看到的情況——我們確實遷移了一些站點。這迫使我們將一些站點從第三季度推遲到第四季度，但我們認為這是值得的，因為抵消水平是如此之高，當然，資本的回報也是如此豐厚。

And if I could ask you one other quick one. Understanding the NACS cable rollout, we -- big fans of Tesla, but not everybody is these days. Is there any targeted marketing that you're thinking about or you've done for Tesla drivers, because you see these stickers on Teslas that -- owners that are mad at Elon, et cetera. Is there -- has anybody thought about something like that you've done? Or are you thinking about any kind of campaign like that?

我可以再問您一個簡單的問題。了解 NACS 電纜的推出，我們是特斯拉的忠實粉絲，但現在並不是每個人都是特斯拉的忠實粉絲。您是否正在考慮或已經針對特斯拉車主進行有針對性的行銷活動，因為您看到特斯拉車上貼著這些貼紙，車主們對伊隆等感到憤怒。有沒有人想過你也做過類似的事情？或者您正在考慮開展類似的活動？

Yes. I mean, look, I know that this space is -- feels like it's very heavily politicized. We're running this business as an infrastructure business where we're deploying capital that's returning strong returns for shareholders and strong EBITDA generation, strong margins. We try not to get too political about stuff. We just think that's not necessarily always the best thing. However, we're very analytical.

是的。我的意思是，看，我知道這個領域——感覺它非常政治化。我們將這項業務作為基礎設施業務來運營，我們正在部署資本，為股東帶來豐厚的回報、強勁的 EBITDA 生成和豐厚的利潤率。我們盡量不讓事情太政治化。我們只是認為這不一定總是最好的事情。然而，我們的分析能力很強。

So where we're putting these NACS cables over the course of this year are in locations where we know there are Tesla drivers, where we -- those Tesla drivers, we expect will come over to our stations because there isn't a Tesla supercharger nearby.

因此，我們今年將在有特斯拉駕駛者的地方鋪設這些 NACS 電纜，我們預計這些特斯拉駕駛者將會來到我們的充電站，因為附近沒有特斯拉超級充電站。

And as I said on the call today, we're just taking our capabilities to the next level. We've got these AI agents now that are creating messages, and they are figuring out which customers to send which message to at what time. And I think that we're -- that's sort of broadly what we're doing to get sort of the right level of interest at our stations at the right time.

正如我今天在電話中所說的那樣，我們正在將我們的能力提升到一個新的水平。我們現在有了這些可以建立訊息的人工智慧代理，它們可以確定何時要向哪些客戶發送哪一則訊息。我認為，這就是我們所做的大致工作，以便在正確的時間吸引人們對我們電台的適當興趣。

And I think that for the NACS cables, where we're attracting Tesla drivers with, frankly, charging stations that are faster. These are largely 350-kilowatt stalls that we're deploying today versus the supercharger network of 250 and closer to where they live with their amenities. We think that's a very interesting and successful -- should be a very successful approach.

我認為，對於 NACS 電纜，我們透過更快的充電站來吸引特斯拉駕駛者。我們今天部署的主要是 350 千瓦的充電樁，而超級充電樁網路則有 250 個，並且更靠近他們居住的地方，並提供便利設施。我們認為這是一個非常有趣和成功的方法——應該是一個非常成功的方法。

Craig Irwin, ROTH Capital Partners.

克雷格歐文（Craig Irwin），羅仕證券資本合夥公司（ROTH Capital Partners）。

Paul, in your prepared remarks, you mentioned the ancillary revenue progression over the next couple of quarters, the fact that we should have a pretty strong fourth quarter. Can you maybe give us a little bit of color as far as the strength that we had in the second quarter, and how that's likely to materialize relative to your execution over the last couple of months? And anything else you could share to help us understand the way this is rolling out?

保羅，在你準備好的發言中，你提到了未來幾季的輔助收入成長，事實上我們應該會有一個相當強勁的第四季。您能否向我們稍微介紹一下我們在第二季度所取得的成績，以及相對於過去幾個月的執行情況，這一成績可能會如何實現？您還可以分享什麼資訊來幫助我們了解此事的進展嗎？

Sure. Yes. So yes, we did have strong non-charging revenue overall in the quarter, both ancillary and the eXtend business. So the -- with the Xtend business, I'll just talk about that one for a quick second. So what we saw was higher level of equipment sales with eXtend as our partners sought to bring forward equipment purchases.

當然。是的。所以是的，本季我們確實擁有強勁的非收費收入，包括輔助業務和 eXtend 業務。因此——關於 Xtend 業務，我只想快速談論一下。因此，我們看到，由於我們的合作夥伴尋求提前購買設備，eXtend 的設備銷售水準有所提高。

And then with the ancillary revenue, a large part of that growth is due to our hubs business. So when we set our guidance for the year -- the hubs business is a relatively new business. We're still learning what the economics could be and negotiated contracts. And so now we've got better line of sight overall into what our hubs business is going to generate this year in terms of revenue.

然後，就輔助收入而言，很大一部分成長歸功於我們的樞紐業務。因此，當我們設定年度指引時—樞紐業務是相對較新的業務。我們仍在了解經濟狀況並協商合約。因此，現在我們對今年樞紐業務的收入有了更清晰的了解。

So with the ancillary revenues, which is largely the hubs business, we expect it's going to more than double from last year, from 2024. We're expecting also to have a much higher fourth quarter as well, given some of the revenue recognition nuances in the hubs business. Again, it's largely because we now have better line of sight in the near term as to where we expect it's going to end up.

因此，我們預計輔助收入（主要是樞紐業務）將從 2024 年開始比去年增長一倍以上。考慮到樞紐業務中一些收入確認的細微差別，我們預計第四季度的銷售額也會大幅成長。再一次，這主要是因為我們現在對短期內最終結果有了更好的了解。

There is some lumpiness to it, I will admit with the hubs business due to some of the accounting. And as we go forward and it becomes a much bigger part of our revenue mix, we'll provide more specific guidance on it that I think will be helpful.

我承認，由於一些會計原因，樞紐業務存在一些不平衡之處。隨著我們不斷前進，它將成為我們收入結構中更大的一部分，我們將提供更具體的指導，我認為這會很有幫助。

So then Bader, you're clearly executing well versus your financial targets, right? You're delivering, and you have been for several quarters. But it does look like you're adding a little bit of expenses to the model. So maybe there's a bigger opportunity or a different opportunity set.

那麼巴德，你的財務目標顯然執行得很好，對嗎？你們正在履行承諾，而且已經持續了好幾個季度了。但看起來你確實在模型中增加了一點費用。因此也許存在更大的機會或不同的機會集合。

Can you talk a little bit about your priorities as you look for opportunities for investment over the next couple of years? Real-time pricing, I guess, is one thing that's got a lot of attention over the last several months. There are several things we could touch on. What do you see as the most important areas for investment at EVgo over the next several quarters?

您能否談談在未來幾年尋找投資機會時的優先事項？我想，即時定價是過去幾個月來備受關注的一件事。我們可以談幾件事。您認為未來幾季 EVgo 最重要的投資領域是什麼？

Thanks, Craig. I mean, look, the single biggest use of cash in this business is the capital that goes into the charging infrastructure. And so we are very focused on both capital efficiencies per stall, that's gross CapEx per stall. We've talked about vintage offsets for quite a bit here.

謝謝，克雷格。我的意思是，你看，這個產業中最大的現金用途就是投入充電基礎設施的資本。因此，我們非常關注每個攤位的資本效率，即每個攤位的總資本支出。我們已經在這裡討論了相當多的復古抵消。

But the first priority is on gross CapEx per stall, which we've been lowering. But I think in part of that journey in terms of your question is the investment we're making into our next-generation charging architecture. We are -- our strategy is to be able to get the benefits of being vertically integrated without being -- without the risks and the cost of manufacturing. That's why that partnership with Delta Electronics is so important. It's why the -- our taking ownership of the firmware, which is the issue that we saw in Q2 is so important.

但首要任務是降低每個攤位的總資本支出，我們一直在降低這個數字。但我認為，就您的問題而言，這趟旅程的一部分是我們對下一代充電架構的投資。我們的策略是能夠獲得垂直整合的好處，而不需要承擔製造風險和成本。這就是為什麼與台達電子的合作如此重要。這就是為什麼——我們擁有韌體的所有權，也就是我們在第二季度看到的問題，是如此重要。

And it takes that customer experience to the next level. That is what we're investing in, and we see that investment show up in OpEx. But ultimately, it's -- the goal there is to lower our gross CapEx per stall in line with the slide that we showed earlier for the second half of 2026.

它將客戶體驗提升到一個新的水平。這就是我們所投資的，我們看到投資體現在營運支出中。但最終，我們的目標是降低每個攤位的總資本支出，與我們先前顯示的 2026 年下半年下滑的幅度一致。

But you're right, we're also investing in marketing, in customer marketing, customer approach, the databases, these AI agents. We've invested over a long period in the algorithms behind our site selection, which we think is one of the many sources of competitive advantage for us. So you picked up on -- dynamic pricing is in an area of investment since last year, again, which we can see paying off in the unit economics schedule. So we're thrilled. But I think the -- I think one -- maybe the last point to leave is that the company has tremendous operating leverage.

但你說得對，我們也在投資行銷、客戶行銷、客戶方法、資料庫和這些人工智慧代理商。我們對選址背後的演算法進行了長期投資，我們認為這是我們眾多競爭優勢之一。所以您了解到—自去年以來，動態定價再次成為投資領域，我們可以在單位經濟計畫中看到回報。所以我們很興奮。但我認為——我認為——也許最後一點是該公司擁有巨大的營運槓桿。

If you look at the fixed costs in this business versus the total G&A, it's pretty high. And so once you cover your fixed costs, all of that cash flow above fixed cost falls to the bottom line. And that's why this business model is just so -- to me, so compelling. The EBITDA generation after this year is really pretty exciting. And that's what we're trying to convey when we put -- every few months when we put out these long-term financials.

如果你將這項業務的固定成本與總 G&A 進行比較，你會發現它相當高。因此，一旦你涵蓋了固定成本，所有超過固定成本的現金流都會落入底線。這就是為什麼這種商業模式對我來說如此引人注目。今年之後的 EBITDA 成長確實非常令人興奮。這就是我們每隔幾個月發布這些長期財務數據時試圖傳達的訊息。

Fantastic. And just another one, if I may. Firmware, you mentioned the firmware issue in the quarter. Can you maybe share with us what sort of a headwind this was on throughputs across the network? Or any other color for us to understand the financial impact?

極好的。如果可以的話，我再說一個。固件，您提到了本季的韌體問題。您能否與我們分享一下這對整個網路吞吐量造成了什麼樣的不利影響？或是有其他顏色可以讓我們了解財務影響嗎？

Yes. I mean, look, we said that in July, the firmware issues, they're kind of -- at this point, they're largely behind us. We are -- we did, at the same time, decide to take some -- put some stalls into maintenance because we are seeing these issues anyway in terms of customer experience. So that will be largely addressed through the first part of Q3

是的。我的意思是，你看，我們在七月就說過，韌體問題已經基本解決了。同時，我們確實決定對一些攤位進行維護，因為從客戶體驗的角度來看，我們看到了這些問題。因此，這個問題將在第三季的第一部分得到解決

But if you look at our July throughput, it was approaching 300 kilowatt hours per stall per day. And that's quite a bit higher than what we saw in the average in Q2, and that's probably a good enough proxy for where throughput -- for your question in terms of where throughput could have been.

但如果你看看我們七月的產量，你會發現每個攤位每天的用電量接近 300 千瓦時。這比我們在第二季度看到的平均水平要高出不少，而且這可能足以代表吞吐量——對於您關於吞吐量可能達到什麼水平的問題而言。

Christopher Pierce, Needham & Company.

克里斯多福·皮爾斯，Needham & Company。

I was just wondering, is it -- are you seeing increased competition for rideshare drivers? I mean, I know it's just one article, one headline, but we talked about 40-plus stalls going in at LAX and things like that. I just was wondering if sort of more people are realizing how interesting this business is or the frequency with which these drivers have to charge.

我只是想知道，您是否看到共乘司機之間的競爭加劇了？我的意思是，我知道這只是一篇文章、一個標題，但我們談論了洛杉磯國際機場 40 多個攤位之類的事情。我只是想知道是否有更多人意識到這個行業有多有趣，或者這些司機的收費頻率。

I mean, look, it's hard because there's so many companies in the space that are private and small. It's hard to know, to be perfectly honest. When we look at our own throughput, rideshare has been pretty steady in the 20% to 25% of our total kilowatt hours for I don't know how many quarters at this point. It's usually maybe a couple of years at this point.

我的意思是，這很難，因為這個領域有很多私人公司和小公司。說實話，這很難知道。當我們查看我們自己的吞吐量時，我不知道到目前為止有多少個季度，共乘一直相當穩定地佔據著我們總千瓦時的 20% 到 25%。通常此時可能需要幾年時間。

So rideshare is going great for us. It's been a steady contributor to our kilowatt hours in aggregate. That remains the case. We're thrilled. We've been saying forever that rideshare is a significant source of upside. That's beyond that battery electric vehicle to DCFC charging ratio, which is also a macro supply-demand factor that benefits the business.

所以，拼車對我們來說非常棒。它一直為我們的千瓦時總量做出穩定貢獻。情況依然如此。我們很興奮。我們一直在說，共乘是重要的獲利來源。這超出了電池電動車與 DCFC 充電比率的範圍，這也是一個有利於業務的宏觀供需因素。

So yes, we're thrilled. I mean, I think that a lot of companies, smaller private companies in this space, anecdotally, we wonder whether they'll be able to attract capital, quite honestly, just because they're smaller scale.

是的，我們非常激動。我的意思是，我認為這個領域的許多公司，規模較小的私人公司，據傳聞，我們懷疑他們是否能夠吸引資本，說實話，只是因為他們的規模較小。

And can you just touch on, lastly, ASP per watt. It looked like it was up pretty smartly quarter-over-quarter, and that's after a 1Q increase from 4Q last year. I just wanted to kind of -- if you could touch on pricing power? Or is this dynamic pricing that you're kind of able to flex? Or is this people that are on a monthly plan, but because of the firmware issue, the charger that they go to was down, so you had a onetime benefit there?

最後，能否簡單談談每瓦的平均售價 (ASP)？看起來，季度環比增長相當強勁，這是繼去年第一季較第四季度有所增長之後的另一個增長。我只是想——您能談談定價權嗎？或者這是您可以靈活調整的動態定價嗎？或者這些人雖然採用了月度套餐，但由於韌體問題，他們使用的充電器壞了，所以你們獲得了一次性福利？

So yes, we have seen our revenue per kilowatt hour pricing increase. As we've talked about on other calls as well, we're continuously testing our pricing programs, dynamic pricing. We're just talking about rideshare and trying to incentivize rideshare drivers to go off-peak and trying to influence the shape of our utilization curve as well. And it's all resulted in us having the ability watching customers' reaction to seeing how much we can move prices up.

是的，我們看到每度電價收入增加了。正如我們在其他電話會議上談到的那樣，我們正在不斷測試我們的定價計劃和動態定價。我們只是在談論共乘，並試圖激勵共乘司機錯峰出行，並試圖影響我們的利用率曲線的形狀。這一切都讓我們有能力透過觀察顧客的反應來判斷我們可以提高價格多少。

We also, though -- when we look to price, we also look at what is the revenue minus our throughput costs, which are mostly our energy costs. And so as energy costs increase or decrease, we want to make sure that we maintain a spread or widen that spread to some degree. And I think that's really the most important point in the quarter where we saw that spread increase last year from, I think, $0.29 a kilowatt hour to $0.32 a kilowatt hour, which is right in the middle of our long-term guidance.

不過，當我們考慮價格時，我們也會考慮收入減去我們的吞吐量成本（主要是我們的能源成本）。因此，隨著能源成本的增加或減少，我們希望確保維持利差或在一定程度上擴大利差。我認為這確實是本季最重要的一點，我們看到去年的價差從每千瓦時 0.29 美元增加到每千瓦時 0.32 美元，這正好處於我們長期指導的中間。

So we're kind of approaching the spread where we think long-term it could end up. But we'll continue to test these programs with customers, making sure that we're delivering value to our customers, retain them, looking at the long-term value of customers as well, not just the short-term pricing opportunities and to make sure that we're maximizing the value and increasing retention as well.

因此，我們認為，從長遠來看，我們正在接近利差的最終結果。但我們將繼續與客戶一起測試這些計劃，確保我們為客戶提供價值，留住他們，同時也關注客戶的長期價值，而不僅僅是短期定價機會，並確保我們最大化價值並提高保留率。

Badar Khan, CEO, for closing remarks.

執行長 Badar Khan 致閉幕詞。

Well, thank you, everyone.

好的，謝謝大家。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. You may now disconnect. Thank you, and have a great day.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。謝謝您，祝您有愉快的一天。