Energy Transfer LP (ET) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the Energy Transfer fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

大家好，歡迎參加 Energy Transfer 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Tom Long, Co-Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead, sir.

現在，我想將會議交給聯合執行長湯姆朗先生。先生，請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Energy Transfer fourth-quarter 2024 earnings call.

謝謝接線員，大家下午好。歡迎參加 Energy Transfer 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

I'm also joined, today, by [Mac] McCrea and other members of the senior management team, who are here to help answer your questions after our prepared remarks.

今天，還有 [Mac] McCrea 和其他高階管理團隊成員與我一起，在我們準備好的發言之後幫助回答大家的問題。

Hopefully, you saw the press release we issued earlier this afternoon. As a reminder, our earnings release contains a thorough MD&A that goes through the segments' results in detail and we encourage everyone to take a look at the release, as well as the slides posted to our website, to gain a full understanding of the quarter and our growth opportunities.

希望您看到了我們今天下午早些時候發布的新聞稿。提醒一下，我們的收益報告包含詳盡的 MD&A，詳細介紹了各部門的業績，我們鼓勵每個人都查看該報告以及發佈到我們網站上的幻燈片，以全面了解本季度和我們的成長機會。

As a reminder, we will be making forward-looking statements within the meaning of section 21E of the Security Exchange Act of 1934. These statements are based upon beliefs, as well as certain assumptions and information currently available to us, and are discussed in more details in our Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, which we expect to file this Friday, February 14.

提醒一下，我們將根據《1934 年證券交易法》第 21E 條的規定做出前瞻性陳述。 這些陳述基於信念以及我們目前掌握的某些假設和信息，並在我們預計於本週五（2 月 14 日）提交的截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 10-K 表中進行了更詳細的討論。

I'll also refer to adjusted EBITDA and distributable cash flow, or DCF, both of which are non-GAAP financial measures. You will find a reconciliation of our non-GAAP measures on our website.

我也會參考調整後的 EBITDA 和可分配現金流（DCF），這兩者都是非 GAAP 財務指標。您可以在我們的網站上找到我們的非公認會計準則指標的對帳表。

Let's start today by going over the financial results for the full-year 2024.

今天我們先來回顧一下 2024 年全年的財務表現。

Adjusted EBITDA was $15.5 billion, which came in at the high end of our 2024 guidance range. This was up 13% over 2023 and was a partnership record. DCF, attributable to the partners of Energy Transfer, as adjusted, was $8.4 billion, which was up 10% over 2023, and was also a partnership record.

調整後的 EBITDA 為 155 億美元，達到我們 2024 年指引範圍的高點。這比 2023 年增長了 13%，創下了合作夥伴關係的記錄。經過調整後，歸屬於 Energy Transfer 合作夥伴的 DCF 為 84 億美元，比 2023 年成長 10%，同時也創下了合作夥伴的記錄。

Operationally, we moved record volumes across our Interstate, Midstream, NGL, and Crude segments for the year ended 2024. In addition, we exported a record amount of total NGLs out of our Nederland and Marcus Hook terminals.

在營運方面，截至 2024 年，我們在州際、中游、NGL 和原油部門的運輸量均創下了歷史新高。

For the fourth quarter of 2024, we generated adjusted EBITDA of $3.9 billion compared to $3.6 billion for the fourth quarter of 2023.

2024 年第四季度，我們的調整後 EBITDA 為 39 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 36 億美元。

We continue to see strong volumes during the fourth quarter, including increased throughput across the majority of our segments. DCF, attributable to the partners of Energy Transfer, as adjusted, was $2 billion, consistent with the fourth quarter of 2023.

第四季我們的業務量持續保持強勁，大部分部門的吞吐量都有所增加。經調整後，歸屬於 Energy Transfer 合作夥伴的 DCF 為 20 億美元，與 2023 年第四季一致。

And for the full year of 2024, we spent approximately $3 billion on organic growth capital, excluding SUN and USA Compression CapEx. These investments were primarily in the midst (technical difficulty) and NGL & Refined Products segments.

截至 2024 年全年，我們在有機成長資本上花費了約 30 億美元（不包括 SUN 和 USA Compression CapEx）。這些投資主要集中在中間（技術難度）及NGL及精煉產品領域。

Now, let's turn to the results by segments for the fourth quarter. And I'll start with NGL & refined products.

現在，我們來看看第四季各部門的業績。我將從 NGL 和精煉產品開始。

Adjusted EBITDA was $1.1 billion compared to $1.04 billion for the fourth quarter of 2023. This was primarily due to higher throughput and higher rates across our Gulf Coast and Mariner East pipeline operations. It also had strong NGL exports and increased profits from the optimization of hedged NGL inventory.

調整後的 EBITDA 為 11 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 10.4 億美元。該公司的 NGL 出口也十分強勁，並且透過對沖 NGL 庫存的優化增加了利潤。

For Midstream, adjusted EBITDA was $705 million compared to $674 million for the fourth quarter of 2023. The increase was primarily due to higher volumes in the Permian Basin, which was related to a 9% increase in legacy Permian throughput, as well as the addition of (technical difficulty) the related to the Permian Basin: processing expansions, treating upgrades, compression additions, and well connects.

對於中游，調整後的 EBITDA 為 7.05 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 6.74 億美元。 成長主要由於二疊紀盆地產量增加，這與傳統二疊紀吞吐量增加 9% 有關，以及與二疊紀盆地相關的（技術難度）增加：加工、處理升級、加工擴建、處理升級、加工和井連接。

Within the Crude Oil segment, we expect to spend approximately $295 million, primarily related to crude oil and water gathering in the Williston Basin, crude gathering buildout in the Permian Basin, as well as optimization projects and well connects.

在原油領域，我們預計將花費約 2.95 億美元，主要用於威利斯頓盆地的原油和水收集、二疊紀盆地的原油收集建設以及優化項目和井連接。

And within our Interstate Natural Gas segment, we expect to spend approximately $170 million, largely related to smaller laterals and tie-ins supporting new demand growth off our pipelines, as well as optimization projects on FGT.

在我們的州際天然氣部門，我們預計將花費約 1.7 億美元，主要用於支援管道新需求成長的小型水平管道和連接項目，以及 FGT 的最佳化項目。

In addition, in the All Other segment, we expect to spend approximately $100 million on new power generation facilities, which will make our critical transportation systems more reliable in the areas that we have significant electricity shortages or intermittent outages.

此外，在其他所有部門，我們預計將投資約 1 億美元用於新的發電設施，這將使我們在電力嚴重短缺或間歇性停電地區的關鍵運輸系統更加可靠。

Our projects are expected to achieve mid-teen returns, with most of them also providing incremental downstream benefits. Some of these projects are expected on line later this year, with the majority of these projects expected on line in 2026. As such, we expect the majority of earnings growth from these projects to significantly ramp up in 2026 and 2027.

我們的專案預計將實現中等水準的回報，其中大多數專案還將提供增量的下游效益。其中一些項目預計將於今年稍後上線，大多數項目預計將於 2026 年上線。

Now, taking a closer look at some of our largest growth projects that are currently underway.

現在，我們來仔細看看目前正在進行的一些最大的成長項目。

In December, we FID Phase 1 of the Hugh Brinson pipeline, which will provide significant incremental transportation capacity out of the Permian Basin to connect shippers to Energy Transfer's vast intrastate natural gas pipeline network and other downstream pipelines, as well as access to the majority of gas utilities in every major trading hub in Texas.

12 月，我們確定了休·布林森 (Hugh Brinson) 輸油管道一期的最終投資決定，該輸油管道將顯著增加二疊紀盆地的運輸能力，將托運人與 Energy Transfer 龐大的州內天然氣管道網絡和其他下游管道連接起來，同時還能連接德克薩斯州各個主要貿易中心的大部分天然氣公用設施。

The first phase of the project, which is expected to be in service by the end of 2026, includes the construction of approximately 400 miles of 42-inch pipeline from Waha to Maypearl, Texas, with a capacity of approximately 1.5 billion cubic feet per day.

該計畫第一階段預計將於 2026 年底投入使用，包括建造從瓦哈到德州梅珀爾約 400 英里、直徑 42 英吋的管道，每日輸送能力約為 15 億立方英尺。

Construction will also include the Midland lateral, which is expected to be a 42-mile, 36-inch lateral, to connect to Energy Transfer's Midland Basin plants, as well as third-party processing plants in Martin and Midland Counties to the Hugh Brinson pipeline.

建設還將包括米德蘭支管，預計長達 42 英里，管徑 36 英寸，連接 Energy Transfer 的米德蘭盆地工廠以及馬丁縣和米德蘭縣的第三方加工廠和休·布林森管道。

We continue to have discussions with producers regarding Phase 2 of the project. If approved, Phase 2 would add compression to increase the capacity of the new pipeline to approximately 2.2 Bcf per day.

我們繼續與製作人討論專案的第二階段。如果獲得批准，第二階段將增加壓縮，以將新管道的容量提高到每天約 22 億立方英尺。

Combined costs to Phase 1 and Phase 2 are expected to be approximately $2.7 billion. Completed project will be backed by long-term, fee-based commitments, with strong investment grade counterparties.

預計第一階段和第二階段的總成本約為 27 億美元。已完成的項目將得到長期的、收費的承諾以及強大的投資等級交易對手的支持。

This project is expected to further establish Energy Transfer as the premier option to support power plant and data center growth in the state of Texas.

該計畫預計將進一步確立 Energy Transfer 作為支持德州發電廠和資料中心發展的首選選擇的地位。

At our Nederland terminal, we continue to make progress on the construction of our Flexport expansion project. The project will expand our NGL export capacity and remains on schedule for an anticipated in service for ethane and propane in mid-2025. In addition, as the next phase of the project, we expect to begin ethylene export service in the fourth quarter of this year.

在我們的荷蘭碼頭，我們的 Flexport 擴建項目建設繼續取得進展。該專案將擴大我們的NGL出口能力，並按計劃於2025年中期投入使用乙烷和丙烷。此外，作為專案的下一階段，我們預計將於今年第四季開始提供乙烯出口服務。

At Mont Belvieu, construction of our ninth fractionator is underway, which has a design capacity of 165,000 barrels per day; is expected to be in service in the fourth quarter of 2026. This will bring our total fractionation capacity of Mont Belvieu to more than 1.3 million barrels per day.

在蒙特貝爾維尤，我們正在建造第九座分餾塔，其設計產能為每天 165,000 桶；預計將於 2026 年第四季投入使用。

In December of 2024, we completed the initial phase of the Sabina 2 Pipeline conversion from Mont Belvieu to Nederland. This project increased the pipeline's capacity for multiple products, from approximately 25,000 barrels per day to approximately 40,000 barrels per day. Ultimately, by mid-2026, we expect to expand the pipeline to approximately 70,000 barrels to meet the growing demand for our natural gasoline products.

2024 年 12 月，我們完成了從 Mont Belvieu 至 Nederland 的 Sabina 2 管道轉換的初始階段。該項目提高了管道多種產品的運輸能力，從每天約 25,000 桶增加到每天約 40,000 桶。最終，到 2026 年中期，我們預計將管道擴大到約 70,000 桶，以滿足對我們的天然汽油產品日益增長的需求。

At our Marcus Hook terminal, we continue to see strong demand for our NGL exports out of this terminal. Construction continues on a 900,000-barrel refrigerated ethane storage tank and the addition of approximately 20,000 barrels per day of incremental ethane chilling capacity. This project will provide us with the ability to load [DLECs] much faster than we can today, which is very advantageous for many of our customers.

在我們的馬庫斯胡克碼頭，我們繼續看到對該碼頭的 NGL 出口的強勁需求。繼續建造一座容量為 90 萬桶的乙烷冷藏儲罐，並增加約 2 萬桶/日的增量乙烷冷卻能力。該專案將使我們能夠以比現在更快的速度加載 [DLEC]，這對我們的許多客戶來說非常有利。

Looking at our Permian processing expansions, in 2024, we completed the 50 million cubic feet per day upgrades to our Orla East and Grey Wolf processing plants. Construction continues on upgrades to two other processing plants, which we expect will add incremental processing capacity in West Texas, of approximately 100 million cubic feet per day, by the end of the first quarter of 2025. In addition, construction of the 200 million cubic foot per day Badger processing plant, in the Permian Basin, is underway.

回顧我們的 Permian 加工擴建項目，2024 年，我們完成了 Orla East 和 Grey Wolf 加工廠每天 5000 萬立方英尺的升級。另外兩家加工廠的升級工程仍在繼續，我們預計到 2025 年第一季末，這將使西德克薩斯州的加工能力增加約 1 億立方英尺/天。

As a reminder, this plant, which is expected to be in service in mid-2025, will utilize the idle plant that we are relocating to the Delaware Basin. Also, due to significant demand, we are moving forward with the construction of another processing plant in the Midland Basin, the Mustang Draw plant -- will have the capacity of approximately 275 million cubic feet per day and is expected to be in service in the first half of 2026.

提醒一下，該工廠預計將於 2025 年中期投入使用，它將利用我們遷移至特拉華盆地的閒置工廠。此外，由於需求龐大，我們正在推進米德蘭盆地另一家加工廠的建設，即 Mustang Draw 工廠，該工廠的日產能約為 2.75 億立方英尺，預計將於 2026 年上半年投入使用。

Also, in December we announced a 20-year LNG sale and purchase agreement to supply 2 tons of LNG per annum to Chevron U.S.A. Inc., related to our Lake Charles LNG project. We continue to make progress toward full commercialization of this project, which we believe and many of our customers believe, is the most compelling LNG project on the Gulf Coast.

此外，12 月，我們宣布了一項為期 20 年的液化天然氣銷售和購買協議，每年向雪佛龍美國公司供應 2 噸液化天然氣，該協議與我們的查爾斯湖液化天然氣項目有關。我們繼續朝著該項目的全面商業化邁進，我們和許多客戶都相信，這是墨西哥灣沿岸最引人注目的液化天然氣項目。

Now, for a brief update around our power generation opportunities, since our last call, the level of activity from demand-pull customers has remained strong. And we're in advanced discussions with several other facilities, in close proximity to our footprint, to supply, store, and transport natural gas for natural gas power plants, data centers, and industrial and onshore manufacturing.

現在，簡單介紹一下我們的發電機會，自上次通話以來，需求拉動客戶的活動水平一直保持強勁。我們正在與我們附近的其他幾家工廠進行深入討論，為天然氣發電廠、資料中心以及工業和陸上製造業供應、儲存和運輸天然氣。

In the fourth quarter, we executed a deal on our EOIT pipeline, for 90 million cubic foot per day, that is expected to come on line in 2026. And we have recently completed several agreements with electric utilities in the Midwest to provide connections for new natural gas-fired generation that is replacing coal-fired generation.

第四季度，我們簽署了 EOIT 管道協議，每日輸送量為 9,000 萬立方英尺，預計將於 2026 年投入使用。

Yesterday, we were excited to announce that we have entered into a long-term agreement with CloudBurst data centers to provide natural gas to their flagship AI-focused data center development in Central Texas. Subject to CloudBurst reaching FID with its customers, Energy Transfer would use its Oasis pipeline to provide up to 450,000 MMBtus per day of firm natural gas supply to CloudBurst's Next-Generation Data Center, campus outside of San Marcos, Texas.

昨天，我們很高興地宣布，我們已與 CloudBurst 資料中心達成長期協議，為他們位於德州中部的旗艦 AI 資料中心開發項目提供天然氣。在 CloudBurst 與其客戶達成最終投資決定的前提下，Energy Transfer 將使用其 Oasis 管道向位於德克薩斯州聖馬科斯郊外的 CloudBurst 下一代數據中心提供每天高達 450,000 MMBtus 的穩定天然氣供應。

The natural gas supply would be sufficient to generate up to approximately 1.2 gigawatts of direct or behind-the-meter power. This project represents our first commercial arrangement to supply natural gas directly to a data center site. And it will not be the last.

天然氣供應足以產生約 1.2 千兆瓦的直接電力或電錶後電力。該項目是我們首次直接向資料中心供應天然氣的商業安排。這也不會是最後一次。

In aggregate, we have now received requests for potential connections to approximately 62 power plants -- that we do not currently serve in 13 states -- and up to 15 plants that we already serve today. In addition, we have now received requests from over 70 prospective data centers in 12 states.

總體而言，我們現在已經收到了與大約 62 個發電廠的潛在連接請求（我們目前尚未在 13 個州提供服務），以及多達 15 個我們今天已經提供服務的發電廠。此外，我們現在已經收到來自 12 個州的 70 多個潛在資料中心的請求。

Given Energy Transfer's extensive natural gas infrastructure, we continue to believe that we are the best positioned to capitalize on the anticipated rise in natural gas demand.

鑑於 Energy Transfer 廣泛的天然氣基礎設施，我們仍然相信我們最有能力利用預期的天然氣需求成長。

As a reminder, to support our own operations and increase system reliability for Energy Transfer and our customers in Texas, we are constructing a 10 megawatt natural gas-fired electric generation facilities. The first of these facilities was placed into service last week and the remainder, expected to be in service throughout 2025 and 2026.

提醒一下，為了支援我們自己的營運並提高 Energy Transfer 和德州客戶的系統可靠性，我們正在建造一個 10 兆瓦的天然氣發電設施。第一座設施已於上週投入使用，其餘設施預計將在 2025 年至 2026 年投入使用。

Now, turning to our adjusted EBITDA guidance, we expect our 2025 adjusted EBITDA to be between $16.1 billion and $16.5 billion, which is up approximately 5% from 2024, at the midpoint, and supported by our industry leading business.

現在，談到我們的調整後 EBITDA 指引，我們預計 2025 年調整後的 EBITDA 將在 161 億美元至 165 億美元之間，比 2024 年中位數增長約 5%，並受到我們行業領先業務的支持。

We're currently executing on a large opportunity set of growth projects. And we're excited to deploy capital on these impactful opportunities. They're expected to provide strong returns and a significant growth trajectory through the end of the decade.

我們目前正在執行大量具有巨大機會的成長項目。我們很高興能在這些有影響力的機會上投入資本。預計它們將在未來十年內帶來豐厚的回報和顯著的成長軌跡。

Before we conclude, I would like to reiterate the three main themes in the midstream sector that we see driving this critical growth.

在結束之前，我想重申我們認為推動這一關鍵成長的中游產業的三個主要主題。

First, we will continue to see strong volume growth out of the Permian Basin, where we will continue to invest capital in our midstream assets. This growth will continue to feed our Intrastate segment, where we have an expansion underway that will help meet power and data center demand in Texas, as well as feed our downstream NGL business.

首先，我們將繼續看到二疊紀盆地產量的強勁成長，我們將繼續向中游資產投入資金。這一成長將繼續為我們的州內分部提供動力，我們正在進行的擴張將有助於滿足德州的電力和資料中心需求，並為我們的下游 NGL 業務提供動力。

Second, the broader consensus, combined with the number of inbounds we're receiving, suggests that natural gas-fueled power demand will increase, significantly, in the future. We believe the growth needed to accommodate this demand will be significant. And we are in a unique position to capitalize on this opportunity set, as demonstrated by yesterday's press release regarding our new partnership with CloudBurst for their planned data center.

其次，更廣泛的共識，結合我們收到的來信數量，顯示未來天然氣發電需求將大幅增加。我們相信，滿足這項需求所需的成長將是巨大的。我們處於一個獨特的位置來利用這個機會，正如昨天我們與 CloudBurst 就其計劃中的資料中心建立新合作夥伴關係的新聞稿所證明的那樣。

Lastly, the global demand for US NGL production remains strong and continues to support further development of our NGL infrastructure.

最後，全球對美國NGL生產的需求依然強勁，並持續支持我們NGL基礎設施的進一步發展。

Our extensive asset base and the diversity of our product offering is allowing us to deploy capital across all three of these themes. And this gives us great visibility into our ability to grow this one-of-a-kind franchise for years to come.

我們廣泛的資產基礎和多樣化的產品使我們能夠在這三個主題上部署資本。這讓我們清楚地了解了未來幾年發展這一獨特的特許經營權的能力。

This concludes our prepared remarks. Operator, please open the lines up for our first question.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束。接線員，請接通電話回答我們的第一個問題。

Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session.

謝謝。我們現在開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Theresa Chen, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的 Theresa Chen。

Good afternoon and thank you for taking my question.

下午好，感謝您回答我的問題。

Pretty significant uptick in the growth outlook, as far as project backlog goes. Can you talk about the returns that you're seeing? Have they evolved or changed at all with these incremental projects?

就專案積壓而言，成長前景相當顯著上升。您能談談您所看到的回報嗎？隨著這些增量項目的發展，他們是否有所發展或改變？

Theresa, hello. This is [Mackie].

特蕾莎，你好。這是[Mackie]。

Nothing's really changed over the last couple of years. We are always targeting, depending on the project, that mid-teen to upper-teen rate of return.

過去幾年裡，什麼都沒有改變。根據專案狀況，我們始終將目標設定為中等到高等的報酬率。

A lot of that depends on how much synergistic benefits, up and down. But that's the range that we look at on these projects, the mid to upper teens.

這很大程度取決於協同效益的程度。但這就是我們在這些項目中關注的範圍，即中到高級的水平。

Okay.

好的。

And related to your Intrastate project, Hugh Brinson, interesting that you put Abilene as a marker, as one of the towns that the pipeline runs directly through. Any reason for that that you want to articulate on?

休·布林森，關於您的州內項目，有趣的是，您將阿比林作為標誌，作為管道直接穿過的城鎮之一。您想闡明一下其中的原因嗎？

And just a look on the backlog of these demand-pull projects for that pipeline that could push forward the second phase?

能否看一下這些需求拉動型專案的積壓情況，以推動第二階段的進展？

Let me start out, first, saying how excited we are about that project. It's been a while since we built a 42-inch. For years, we were building one, back -- every month, we were building a new pipeline, it seemed like. But we're very excited about that.

首先，我要說一下我們對這個專案感到非常興奮。我們已經很久沒有建造過 42 英寸了。多年來，我們一直在建造一條管道——似乎每個月我們都在建造一條新的管道。但我們對此感到非常興奮。

The producers in the Permian Basin need it desperately. We've seen 10 Bcf of growth, over the last four or five years, out of that basin. We think we'll go up another 6 Bcf or 7 Bcf over the next four or five years. So what a shot in the arm for them.

二疊紀盆地的生產者迫切需要它。過去四、五年來，我們看到該盆地天然氣產量增加了100億立方英尺。我們預計，未來四、五年內產量將再增加 60 億立方英尺或 70 億立方英尺。這對他們來說真是一個很大的鼓舞。

And then, the market-pull, it's significant -- not only in Texas but other parts of the Southeast that our systems will ultimately feed into. So we're extremely excited about that.

然後，市場拉動非常重要——不僅在德克薩斯州，而且我們的系統最終將覆蓋東南部的其他地區。因此我們對此感到非常興奮。

But it is interesting, your question, even preparing for this call, I got to think about -- you look at where many of the data centers are going, especially in Texas, but also throughout the Southwest, Southeast, and up the Midwest, and it's almost as if Energy Transfer was working, years ago, to figure out where the best spots are for these data centers.

但有趣的是，您的問題，即使在準備這次電話會議時，我也不得不思考——你看看許多數據中心都去往何處，特別是在德克薩斯州，但也遍布西南部、東南部和中西部，這幾乎就像能源轉移公司幾年前就開始努力尋找這些數據中心的最佳位置一樣。

Because if you look at them, the vast majority of them are within several miles of our pipeline. So we feel extremely fortunate all these assets that we built, these pipelines that we built for the purpose of moving products from point A to point B, we really never envisioned there would be this kind of power plant demand growth, both for data centers and others, that are just right on top of a significant part of our pipelines.

因為如果你看一下，你會發現絕大多數都位於距離我們的管道幾英里之內。因此，我們感到非常幸運，我們建造的所有這些資產，這些為了將產品從 A 點運送到 B 點而建造的管道，我們真的從未想像過會有如此多的發電廠需求增長，無論是數據中心還是其他，這些發電廠的需求都恰好位於我們管道很大一部分之上。

So, yeah, Abilene's -- had a little press with Stargate. We do see that as a highly potential project for us. We -- very well positioned to provide whatever is necessary there. And we have our team working on that, as well as, as Tom talked about, numerous data center and power plant projects throughout the US.

是的，阿比林與《星際之門》有過一些合作。我們確實認為這對我們來說是一個非常有潛力的項目。我們有能力提供那裡所需的一切。我們的團隊正在致力於這項工作，同時，正如湯姆所提到的，我們也在美國各地開展了許多資料中心和發電廠專案。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Keith Stanley, Wolfe Research.

基斯‧史丹利（Keith Stanley），沃爾夫研究公司。

Hi. Good afternoon.

你好。午安.

Wanted to start on the $5 billion growth CapEx for this year. Does that include any meaningful unsanctioned projects we may not know about?

希望今年能開始實現 50 億美元的成長資本支出。這是否包括我們可能不知道的任何有意義的未經批准的項目？

And then for the midstream piece, $1.6 billions, more than you've spent the past several years. Can you just give a little more detail on projects? Or where you're investing more than prior years in midstream?

中游部分投入了 16 億美元，比過去幾年的投資還要多。能否詳細介紹一下專案情況？或者您在中游領域的投資比前幾年多？

This is [Mackie] again. Hey, Keith.

我是 [Mackie]。嘿，基斯。

The $5 billion -- those were projects we've sanctioned. They're moving forward, great rate of returns, very excited about that.

50億美元——這些都是我們批准的項目。他們正在不斷前進，回報率很高，我對此感到非常興奮。

And when you look at what's driving a (inaudible), that is midstream. Midstream is kind of the, call it, heart. It's what starts everything. It's where we gather, and process, and treat, compress, and then, put it into our system. It goes through our cryos and then, the residue goes into our Intra-, Interstate pipeline networks. And, of course, NGLs go into Lone Star and feed all that and then, all of our crude business as well.

當您觀察推動（聽不清楚）的因素時，您會發現它處於中游。中游有點像我們所說的心臟。這是一切的開始。我們在這裡收集、加工、處理、壓縮，然後將其放入我們的系統。它經過我們的低溫處理，然後殘留物進入我們的州內和州際管道網路。當然，NGL 會進入 Lone Star 並滿足所有這些需求，進而滿足我們所有的原油業務需求。

So it's a very viable, important part and segment of our partnership. And when you look at Mustang Draw, you look at these improvements -- we're making it very inexpensively to some of the trials we already have, by increasing capacity.

因此，這是我們合作關係中非常可行且重要的組成部分。當您查看 Mustang Draw 時，您會看到這些改進 - 透過增加容量，我們以非常低的成本完成我們已經進行的一些試驗。

And we've got Badger coming on, as well, this year. That's what's driving this.

今年我們還會推出 Badger。這就是推動此事的因素。

There's just an insatiable need for more cryogenic processing plants in the Permian Basin. And we are so well positioned to benefit from that across our entire enterprise, including all of our downstream assets.

二疊紀盆地對更多低溫處理工廠的需求無比巨大。我們整個企業，包括所有下游資產，都能夠從中受益。

Thanks for that.

謝謝。

If I could pivot to the CloudBurst announcement, wanted to confirm this is going to go to supporting a new gas-fired power plant, not an existing plant?

如果我可以前往 CloudBurst 公告，想確認這將用於支援新的燃氣發電廠，而不是現有的發電廠？

And then, can you talk about the ramp that you foresee for the project? Should we assume this starts somewhat small and then, you eventually ramp to the 450 million cubic feet a day? How should we think about it?

那麼，您能談談您預見的該專案的坡道嗎？我們是否應該假設一開始的數量很小，然後最終增加到每天 4.5 億立方英尺？我們該如何思考這個問題？

That question is very germane, in the sense that every single data center we're talking to is a little bit different, has a little nuance to it.

這個問題非常中肯，因為我們討論的每個資料中心都有些不同，有些細微差別。

So this one, in particular, that you're asking about, they're very experienced. Their Executive team has, I believe, they're advertising over 150 years in data centers in US and Europe. We're very pleased to be partnered up with them on this one.

特別是你問到的這個，他們經驗非常豐富。我相信，他們的執行團隊已經在美國和歐洲的資料中心投放了 150 多年的廣告。我們非常高興能與他們合作。

They have significant contacts with the tenants or some of the owners, as you all know who many of these are. We are very optimistic they will get this to the finish line. But it is something that they'll have to scale up.

他們與租戶或部分業主有著重要的聯繫，大家都知道其中的許多人是誰。我們非常樂觀地認為他們能夠完成這一目標。但他們必須擴大規模。

They do believe that they, very likely, could get as high as 450,000 a day. That's why they secured that amount of supply. And we'll know a lot more.

他們確實相信，每天的確診人數很有可能達到 45 萬人。這就是他們確保如此大量供應的原因。我們將會了解更多。

We possibly could know a lot more by the end of the next quarter. But we'll see and we'll continue to work closely with them and other developers.

到下個季度末我們可能會知道更多。但我們會看到，我們將繼續與他們和其他開發商密切合作。

But we're very excited about this first project. We're learning a lot about data centers. Data centers are learning a lot about the natural gas business and how critical it is to what they're doing.

但我們對這個第一個項目感到非常興奮。我們正在學習很多關於資料中心的知識。資料中心正在學習大量有關天然氣業務的知識，以及天然氣業務對他們的工作有多重要。

And, man, we couldn't be more pleased and excited about this new business because, as I mentioned earlier and we said in our open remarks, there's no company in the United States that is close to as well positioned to provide natural gas supply to many of these data centers, especially in Texas, and Oklahoma, and Louisiana.

而且，我們對這項新業務感到非常高興和興奮，因為正如我之前提到的，我們在公開演講中也說過，在美國，沒有哪家公司能夠像我們一樣，為這些數據中心提供天然氣供應，尤其是在德克薩斯州、俄克拉荷馬州和路易斯安那州。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jeremy Tonet, J.P. Morgan.

摩根大通的傑里米·托內特 (Jeremy Tonet)。

Hi. Good afternoon.

你好。午安.

Just wanted to follow up on the last one, CloudBurst, here. It seems like you have a lot of confidence in this project, overall, having PR-ed it.

只是想跟進一下最後一個，CloudBurst。總體來說，通過 PR 之後，看起來您對這個項目很有信心。

Just wondering if you could talk a bit more on how to quantify -- how you see the [TAM]? What you expect for win rate? Or just any way to frame with numbers? What this could mean for Energy Transfer?

只是想知道您是否可以再多談談如何量化——您如何看待[TAM]？您所期望的勝率是多少？或只是用數字來構成框架的任何方式？這對能源轉移意味著什麼？

We'll go as deep as we can, considering we do have an NDA, but one thing we've learned is there's five critical things for these data centers and the most important ones are energy.

考慮到我們確實有保密協議，我們會盡可能深入了解，但我們了解到的一件事是，這些資料中心有五個關鍵因素，其中最重要的是能源。

And so, for example, this one will not only be tied to ERCOT, of course, it will be tied to us with significant gas supply, backed up by storage for natural gas-fired generation. They're also going to have diesel-powered backup generation. They're going to have backup battery so power is critical to these projects.

因此，例如，這個不僅將與 ERCOT 掛鉤，當然，它還將與我們掛鉤，提供大量的天然氣供應，並為天然氣發電提供儲存支援。他們還將擁有柴油備用發電設施。他們將配備備用電池，因此電力對於這些項目至關重要。

And this particular company has a significant amount of expertise, as I just mentioned, and they also have a very proprietary software system because one of the most important variables is access to high bandwidth optical fibers with low latency. I guess it is what it is.

正如我剛才提到的，這家公司擁有大量專業知識，他們還擁有專有的軟體系統，因為最重要的變數之一是存取低延遲的高頻寬光纖。我想它就是那樣的。

And there's not 1,000 places in the US or, certainly, in Texas that fit all those variables. Where you have a reliable energy supply; where you have plenty of water for cooling; where you have plenty of land; and where you have a bunch of redundancy. And so this fits so well with our assets.

而在美國，或者說在德州，沒有 1,000 個地方能夠滿足所有這些變數。哪裡有可靠的能源供應；有充足的水用於冷卻；那裡有大量土地；並且存在大量冗餘。這與我們的資產非常契合。

And talking to them and their expectations, as they go to the primary [teen] that they're chasing -- just a little bit more transparency -- that they do believe that some of these turbines for this this site are already ordered in an inventory that could move this a lot quicker than what we have said.

在與他們交談並了解他們的期望時，他們正朝著他們所追逐的主要目標前進——只是更加透明一點——他們確實相信這個站點的一些渦輪機已經訂購了庫存，這可能會比我們所說的更快地完成。

And so we're optimistic that, on this particular one, we've aligned ourselves with a very strong company that knows what the heck they're doing, with a lot of contacts out in the industry around data centers. And we are optimistic that they will ramp this up.

因此，我們很樂觀，在這一點上，我們與一家非常強大的公司結盟，這家公司非常清楚自己在做什麼，並且在資料中心領域擁有大量聯絡人。我們樂觀地認為他們會加大力度。

Will they go all the way up to 450 or 350? Remains to be seen. But we believe this will be a very successful project.

他們會一路升至 450 或 350 嗎？還有待觀察。但我們相信這將是一個非常成功的項目。

Got it. Makes sense.

知道了。有道理。

And just want to follow up with some of the comments on the prior call ending. Just wondering, with the new administration in place for a bit here and new policies being rolled out, just wondering if you could share how that impacts what you see as your opportunities set, items such as Lake Charles or others? Just any thoughts there would be great.

只是想跟進一下之前通話結束時的一些評論。只是想知道，隨著新政府的上台和新政策的推出，您是否可以分享一下這對您所看到的機會（例如查爾斯湖或其他機會）有何影響？只要有任何想法就很好。

Thanks.

謝謝。

My goodness. How wonderful is life after this election? When we have a President and an administration that loves this country, that fully recognizes how blessed we are with not only fossil fuel resources but a lot of resources that are needed in this renewable push.

我的天啊。這次選舉後的生活有多美好？當我們有一位熱愛這個國家的總統和政府時，他們充分認識到我們是多麼幸運，不僅擁有化石燃料資源，而且還擁有再生能源發展所需的大量資源。

And we have a businessman that built his career on trading, doing deals, negotiating, employing, creating numerous jobs throughout all the business that he's been associated with. And what an incredible excitement we have around this administration and what it's going to do to mitigate just overwhelming regulation on all these assets, to streamline regulations to where, yeah, we're going to have regulations but be sensible about it.

我們有一位商人，他的職業生涯建立在貿易、做交易、談判、僱用的基礎上，在他所從事的所有業務中創造了大量的就業機會。我們對這屆政府感到無比興奮，他們計劃減輕對所有這些資產的過度監管，簡化監管規定，是的，我們將製定監管規定，但要保持理智。

Put it where it's not -- doesn't take a great deal of time and can get products and can get resources and get energy to not only our domestic and our US customers and population but also to the international market.

把它放到不需要的地方——不需要花費大量時間，就能把產品、資源和能源供應到我們國內、美國的客戶和民眾手中，還能供應到國際市場。

Needless to say, Energy Transfer and our Executive Team and the vast majority of our employees are very excited about what's happening. And we think it's going to be huge for our industry, huge for our partnership, and huge for this country and the world.

毋庸置疑，Energy Transfer、我們的執行團隊和絕大多數員工都對正在發生的事情感到非常興奮。我們認為，這對我們的產業、我們的合作關係、以及這個國家和世界都將具有重大意義。

Got it.

知道了。

Any other updates on Lake Charles?

關於查爾斯湖還有其他最新消息嗎？

Sure. In fact, we have a team over in London, right now -- have some really good reports back.

當然。事實上，我們現在在倫敦有一個團隊，已經收到了一些非常好的報告。

So, as everybody knows, there were two things we were waiting for: is to get a good solid contract with the price that works and get that snowball going.

因此，眾所周知，我們在等待兩件事：一是簽訂一份價格合適的良好合同，二是讓雪球滾起來。

We did that with Chevron back, I believe, in late November, early December. That they're actually an advocate of ours now. I had lunch with them last week. They do believe we have the best project. And they're pushing others to really take a close look, if they aren't already looking at a project.

我記得我們在 11 月底或 12 月初就與雪佛龍合作做過這樣的事。他們現在實際上是我們的擁護者。我上周和他們一起共進午餐。他們確實相信我們擁有最好的項目。如果他們還沒有關注某個項目，他們就會敦促其他人仔細觀察。

We have, gosh, over 20 million tons we're negotiating with. We have a really strong equity partner that we're, now, in negotiations with for a considerable amount of equity.

天哪，我們正在談判的數量超過 2000 萬噸。我們擁有一個非常強大的股權合作夥伴，現在我們正在與其就大量股權進行談判。

So the stars are aligning. And we've got a lot of work to do. We're not going to undersell that. But we do have a project that's in an excellent location, with a pipeline infrastructure -- much of which is already there -- with a great terminal, with tanks that are already there, with this Brownfield Project.

所以星星正在排列。我們還有許多工作要做。我們不會以低價出售該商品。但是，我們確實有一個地理位置優越的項目，擁有管道基礎設施（其中大部分已經存在），有大型終端，還有已經存在的儲罐，還有這個棕地項目。

So we're very excited about it. We're going to push hard and we certainly hope to get the FID, sometime, probably, in the fourth quarter of this year.

因此我們對此感到非常興奮。我們會努力推動，並確實希望能獲得最終決定權，可能是在今年第四季的某個時候。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Manav Gupta, Credit Suisse.

瑞士信貸的馬納夫·古普塔 (Manav Gupta)。

Hi. It's Manav, with UBS.

你好。我是瑞銀的 Manav。

Quick question, when you look at all the power demand, whether it's data center, or it's coal to natural gas, or even the incremental natural gas demand associated with LNG, using your crystal ball, how much do you think the natural gas demand could grow in the next five or seven years?

快問快答，當您查看所有的電力需求時，無論是資料中心，還是煤炭轉化為天然氣，甚至是與液化天然氣相關的增量天然氣需求，使用您的水晶球，您認為未來五年或七年天然氣需求會增長多少？

Oh. Well, this is [Mackie] again.

哦。好吧，我又是 [Mackie]。

It's all across the board. You look at some of our peers, you look at some of the companies that do studies on this, it's hard to predict.

一切都是那樣。看看我們的一些同行，看看一些對此進行研究的公司，你會發現很難預測。

We've done this ourselves, internally, because at the end of the day, what matters most to us is how much of that market we capture. And we believe, over the next 18 to 24 months, that we'll capture between 3 and 4 Bcf.

我們自己在內部完成了這項工作，因為歸根結底，對我們來說最重要的是我們佔據了多少市場份額。我們相信，在未來 18 到 24 個月內，我們將捕獲 3000 到 40 億立方英尺的天然氣。

That may sound aggressive but we're chasing, right now, about 150 power plants. About half of which are either new power plants and/or, as we mentioned, coal-fired retirements that are going into it. And then about half of those or, maybe, a little more are data centers.

這聽起來可能有些激進，但我們現在正在爭取建立大約 150 座發電廠。其中大約一半是新建發電廠，以及/或如我們所提到的，正在退出的燃煤發電廠。其中大約一半或更多一點是資料中心。

So this isn't just data center-driven, this is electricity needs for growing populations, growing industry, other -- even ammonia facilities, et cetera. So we're extremely well positioned to capture whatever the growth is.

因此，這不僅僅是由資料中心驅動的，這是不斷增長的人口、不斷增長的工業、其他甚至氨設施等的電力需求。因此，我們處於非常有利的位置來抓住任何成長機會。

But we've certainly seen numbers north of 10 or 12 Bcf. But we don't know where it's going to go. We just know it's going to be big. And we're going to play a big role in that growth.

但我們確實看到過100億或120億立方英尺以上的數字。但我們不知道它要去哪裡。我們只知道它將會是一件大事。我們將在這成長過程中發揮重要作用。

Perfect.

完美的。

My quick follow up here and this is more of investors asking us, you're obviously talking to a number of data centers, you already got a lot of success with CloudBurst, did the DeepSeek announcement, in any shape or form, break that momentum? Or it just was something which did not even impact the level of discussions you were having and those discussions continue?

我在這裡快速跟進一下，更多的是投資者問我們，你顯然正在與許多數據中心進行交談，你已經在 CloudBurst 上取得了很多成功，DeepSeek 的公告是否會以任何形式打破這種勢頭？或者它只是對你們的討論水平沒有影響並且討論仍繼續進行？

It's [Mackie] again.

又是 [Mackie]。

So the way we'd answer that is, of course, initially, it did. First day or so, we saw in the video, get pretty hard. But, no. I think the answer to that, in a collective conversation with all the developers we're talking to and some of the tenants, we don't see that as a threat.

因此，我們的回答當然是，最初確實如此。第一天左右，我們在影片中看到，變得相當艱難。但事實並非如此。我認為，在與所有開發商和一些租戶的集體對話中，我們得到的答案是，我們不認為這是一種威脅。

It's certainly competition and it wakes up a lot of what's going on here in the US. But, gosh, you're comparing a communist-kind-of-type-run country. That whatever kind of data center or AI they may come with, we know is not going to be factual. We know they're going to have reality and facts that either they don't answer or that are biased or whatever.

這確實是一場競爭，而且它喚醒了美國發生的許多事情。但是，天哪，你正在比較一個共產主義類型管理的國家。無論他們採用什麼樣的資料中心或人工智慧，我們都知道這不是事實。我們知道他們將會面對現實和事實，但是他們要不是不回答，就是有偏見，等等。

It is America. I think we'll do a better job of this.

它是美國。我認為我們會做得更好。

And talking with CloudBurst and some of the others that we're talking about, they don't see this. In fact, some of them have described this as a positive for different reasons. Some of it being waking us up -- waking the US up to stay on top of this and being the leader in AI development.

在與 CloudBurst 以及我們討論過的其他一些公司交談時，他們沒有看到這一點。事實上，有些人出於不同的原因將此描述為積極的。其中一些是喚醒我們——喚醒美國保持領先地位並成為人工智慧發展的領導者。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Spiro Dounis, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Spiro Dounis。

Thanks, operator. Afternoon, guys.

謝謝，接線生。下午好，各位。

Wanted to start with capital return. Seemed like, for a while, you were getting a little bit closer to potentially doing more on the buyback side. But, obviously, the equity's been strong. And, of course, with CapEx now, it seems like it's crowding some of that out.

想要從資本回報開始。有一段時間，似乎你離在回購方面做更多事情越來越近了。但顯然，股權一直很強勁。當然，現在有了資本支出，它似乎正在擠佔其中的一些。

At the same time, Tom, though, you pointed to 5% EBITDA growth year every year at the midpoint. Curious, does all that collectively point you towards, maybe, accelerating distribution growth, more towards that 5% versus 3%? And if not, we think you're waiting to see that to accelerate there.

但同時，湯姆，你指出中間值每年的 EBITDA 成長率為 5%。好奇的是，所有這些是否都表明分銷成長可能會加速，更接近 5% 而不是 3%？如果沒有，我們認為您正在等待看到它加速。

Well, like I always like to say, that's a good question.

嗯，就像我一直喜歡說的那樣，這是一個好問題。

And a good dialogue to have around here is when you start talking about how large your growth is going to be. But we're still staying with that 3% to 5%. And I think, with all these projects we're talking about -- I don't mind saying we'd love to see that moving up to the to the higher end of that range. I think that's fair to say.

當您開始談論您的成長規模將會有多大時，這時良好的對話就會出現。但我們仍維持 3% 至 5% 的水準。我認為，透過我們正在討論的所有這些項目——我不介意說我們很高興看到它上升到這個範圍的高端。我認為這樣說是公平的。

But let's go back to the capital allocation, a little bit. We always had the balance sheet, in other words, the debt pay down. And then, second, we looked at the distribution growth and then we looked at the growth capital, with those buybacks in there, we still have all four of those on the radar screen.

我們稍微回顧一下資本配置問題。我們總是有資產負債表，換句話說，就是償還債務。其次，我們研究了分銷成長，然後研究了成長資本，包括那些回購，我們仍然將這四個面向納入關注範圍。

But with all these great projects that we've been talking about today, you can see that, right now, it makes a lot of sense, for the long term, to continue to strengthen the footprint that we have and the asset base we have.

但透過我們今天談論的所有這些偉大的項目，您會發現，從長遠來看，繼續加強我們現有的足跡和資產基礎非常有意義。

So we are very excited with what we have in front of us. And, absolutely, the distribution growth is definitely very key here.

因此，我們對眼前的成果感到非常興奮。而且，分銷成長絕對是關鍵。

Right. Great.

正確的。偉大的。

And then, second question, still on this theme -- just maybe focusing more on the CapEx, here. M&A, something you've been active in the last few years, just curious where that stands, in light of the $5 billion in CapEx?

然後，第二個問題，仍然圍繞這個主題 - 也許更多地關注資本支出。併購是您近年來一直活躍的一項業務，只是好奇考慮到 50 億美元的資本支出，您的業務處於什麼位置？

If you look back and put CapEx and M&A together, that 5% doesn't look so high anymore. And so just curious if there's room to layer in more M&A here? Or$ 5 billion is as comfortable as you're at, right now?

如果回顧並將資本支出和併購放在一起，那 5% 看起來就不再那麼高了。所以只是好奇這裡是否還有空間進行更多的併購？或者說 50 億美元對你來說已經夠舒服的了，對嗎？

Let's start with the first part of it, the M&A. M&A is, clearly, a very key part of our growth strategy, here. It absolutely has helped us get to where we are, right now, on a lot of these growth projects that we're doing and a lot of the stuff that we're looking at.

讓我們從第一部分開始，即併購。顯然，併購是我們成長策略的關鍵部分。它確實幫助我們達到了現在的水平，包括我們正在進行的許多成長項目和我們正在關注的許多事情。

So the strategy has worked well for us. And we're going to continue to focus on it. As far as the number of targets, you can see that it's getting fewer and fewer of us but we still think that consolidation makes sense in the midstream space. And we're going to be a going to be a player in it.

所以這個策略對我們來說很有效。我們將繼續關注此問題。就目標數量而言，你可以看到目標越來越少，但我們仍然認為在中游領域進行整合是有意義的。我們將成為其中的一員。

And let's go back to the second part, on the $5 billion. I guess I would -- best answer to that, look at that as a 2025 $5 billion. Can't sit here and say, right now, that we've got -- in the queue, to continue to look out, if that number's $5 billion. But if it is, with these kind of returns, we will surely keep looking at that.

讓我們回到第二部分，關於 50 億美元的討論。我想我會——對此最好的回答是，將其視為 2025 年的 50 億美元。現在，我們不能坐在這裡說，我們必須在隊列中繼續關注，看看這個數字是否是 50 億美元。但如果確實如此，並且有這樣的回報，我們肯定會繼續關注。

But, in fairness, it's not one that we're, right now, putting any guidance out on. So we're going to continue the strategy here, of both the M&A and the organic growth projects. And we think we're -- go ahead and get a good compliment in for the team we have -- across the board of integration abilities, are second to none.

但公平地說，我們現在還沒有對此提出任何指導。因此，我們將繼續執行該策略，包括併購和有機成長項目。我們認為，我們團隊的全面整合能力是首屈一指的，值得稱讚。

We do a great job of getting these integrated quickly and start looking at all the opportunities that we find, once we integrate them. So the M&A, once ,again still plays a big role in our growth, as we look out.

我們非常出色地完成了這些快速整合工作，並在整合之後開始尋找我們發現的所有機會。因此，從我們的角度來看，併購在我們的成長中仍然發揮著重要作用。

Great. I'll leave it there. Thanks, Tom.

偉大的。我就把它留在那裡。謝謝，湯姆。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jean Ann Salisbury, Bank of America

Jean Ann Salisbury，美國銀行

Hi.

你好。

There are more competitors really making investments to grow in the Permian NGL pipeline frac and export space. There's a ton of NGL pipeline capacity coming on this year. There was more LPG export capacity recently announced by a new entrant.

有更多的競爭對手正在真正投資於二疊紀 NGL 管道壓裂和出口領域的發展。今年將有大量NGL管道產能投入使用。近期有一家新進業者宣布增加液化石油氣出口能力。

Is this space getting too crowded? Are you worried about returns falling in the segment, over the next few years?

這個空間是不是太擁擠了？您是否擔心未來幾年該領域的報酬率會下降？

And as a follow up, does there need to be more consolidation among the NGL [integrateds], in your view, to stop that from happening?

接下來，您認為 NGL [綜合企業] 之間是否需要進一步整合，才能阻止這種情況的發生？

I'll start the second part and I'll start (inaudible). This is [Mackie] again.

我將開始第二部分，然後我將開始（聽不清楚）。我是 [Mackie]。

We're always going to see competition, of course. And we certainly don't dwell on or worry about what our competitors are doing or what their rates of return or what risks they might be taking.

當然，我們總是會看到競爭。我們當然不會糾結於或擔心我們的競爭對手在做什麼、他們的回報率是多少或他們可能承擔什麼風險。

We focus on our customers, our producers, our markets. And then, build assets to fit the services they're asking for. So we feel very good about everything we've announced.

我們關注我們的客戶、我們的生產者、我們的市場。然後，建立資產來滿足他們所要求的服務。因此，我們對所宣布的一切感到非常滿意。

We feel very good about slowly ramping up and filling up every asset that we have, whether it's cryos or our NGL pipelines. We certainly look at that very closely so that we stay ahead of it.

我們很高興能夠慢慢增加並填補我們擁有的每項資產，無論是低溫流體還是我們的 NGL 管道。我們當然會密切關注這一點，以便保持領先地位。

If we see, a year or two down the road, where we're going to run into capacity problems, we certainly address that. And you'll see that from time to time.

如果我們發現一兩年後會遇到容量問題，我們一定會解決這個問題。您會時不時地看到這種情況。

But new projects, yeah, there's a new LPG project. I guess it's a Texas City that's going to be built in four or five years. Not really concerning because one of the advantages that we have -- and we've had it since we started this company years ago -- is that, once we build assets and we're able to provide some interim service for somebody that wants that particular product, for example, we can build on that.

但是新項目，是的，有一個新的 LPG 項目。我猜想這將是一座四、五年後建成的德州城。其實並不擔心，因為我們的優勢之一——自從我們多年前創立這家公司以來就一直擁有——就是，一旦我們積累了資產，並且能夠為需要特定產品的人提供一些臨時服務，我們就可以在此基礎上進行開發。

So, for example, as some of these new LPG facilities are being built over the next four or five years, we'll be negotiating and having pretty long extensions added to the existing business we had and new business that we develop over the next three or four years.

舉例來說，隨著未來四、五年內一些新的液化石油氣設施的建設，我們將進行談判，並將現有業務和未來三、四年內開發的新業務延長相當長的一段時間。

So there may not be a lot of market available for some of these projects that are coming on line in '28, '29, because a lot of that's under contract. But, once again, we don't worry about what they're doing. We worry about our business, our returns, taking care of our customers, and growing this partnership as we have, consistently, for the last many years.

因此，對於 28、29 年上線的一些專案來說，可能沒有太多的市場空間，因為許多專案都已經簽訂了合約。但是，再說一次，我們並不擔心他們在做什麼。我們關心我們的業務、我們的回報、照顧我們的客戶以及像過去多年以來一貫做的那樣發展這種合作關係。

And I'll chime in, quickly, on the second part of your question, as far as the consolidation, I think you're asking around the natural gas liquids.

我會快速回答你問題的第二部分，就合併而言，我想你問的是天然氣液體的問題。

When we're looking at various opportunities and what fits, the beauty of Energy Transfer, once again, is we participate across all the commodities: natural gas, natural gas liquids, and crude oil.

當我們尋找各種機會和適合的方案時，能源轉移的美妙之處在於我們參與了所有商品：天然氣、天然氣液體和原油。

And don't mind telling you that when we look at this stuff, we do, as far as M&A goes, look across all the commodities when we do it because of the fact that we can consolidate these things and find a lot of opportunities.

我不介意告訴你，當我們審視這些東西時，就併購而言，我們確實會審視所有的商品，因為我們可以整合這些東西並找到很多機會。

So, yes, is the short answer to your question on the consolidation in the NGL space.

所以，是的，這是對 NGL 領域整合問題的簡短答案。

Great. Thanks a lot for that color. I'll leave it there.

偉大的。非常感謝那個顏色。我就把它留在那裡。

Michael Blum, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的麥可布魯姆。

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone.

謝謝。大家下午好。

I wanted to go back to the data center strategy conversation. First question is really how much, when you look at the op opportunity set, do you expect to be front-of-the-meter versus behind-the-meter?

我想回到資料中心戰略對話。第一個問題是，當您查看操作機會集時，您預計在儀表前端和儀表後端的比例是多少？

Great question.

好問題。

We're, depending on the customer, walking through that now. For example, we've got, actually, one customer that intends to tie to ERCOT, a pretty large customer in the DFW area but they will have 100% backup generation in the event they lose ERCOT power.

我們現在正在根據客戶的情況進行處理。例如，實際上，我們有一位客戶打算與 ERCOT 合作，他是 DFW 地區的一個相當大的客戶，但一旦失去 ERCOT 電力，他們將擁有 100% 的備用發電。

In that situation, as all the data centers, we have such an advantage because of our big-inch pipe, multiple big-inch pipes in North Texas and our access to a significant amount of storage. So that's one example.

在這種情況下，與所有資料中心一樣，我們擁有這樣的優勢，因為我們擁有大英寸管道，北德克薩斯州的多條大英寸管道，而且我們擁有大量的存儲空間。這是一個例子。

This one we're talking about, now, is behind-the-meter. But I would say, probably, weighing it, it's going to be more of behind-the-meter where the natural gas-fired generation will be the primary source of electricity, with a lot of redundant other sources of backup power. But that will be -- I would say the majority of them will be that type of a project.

我們現在談論的是電錶後面的電力。但我想說，可能，權衡之後，它將更多地位於電錶後，其中天然氣發電將成為主要電力來源，並帶有大量其他冗餘備用電源。但那將是——我想說其中大多數都是這種類型的項目。

Great. That's helpful.

偉大的。這很有幫助。

And then, for behind-the-meter, is this CloudBurst deal representative of the size of deals that you're seeing, on average? And would you consider, also, building the power, the electric generation component of a project, if that opportunity presents itself?

那麼，對於電錶後而言，這筆 CloudBurst 交易是否代表了您所看到的交易的平均規模？如果有機會，您是否也會考慮建造電力項目和發電部分？

I'll start with the second half. How we answer those questions is there's nothing that someone would ask us that we won't look at.

我先從下半部開始。我們回答這些問題的原因是，只要有人問我們什麼，我們都會去考慮。

So is that our line of business? Do we want to go build power plants? Not really what we do other than the ones that we've announced, publicly, because they make sense, from a reliability, for our assets in critical areas and shortage of electricity.

這就是我們的業務範圍嗎？我們要去蓋發電廠嗎？除了我們公開宣布的措施之外，我們並沒有真正採取其他措施，因為從可靠性的角度來看，它們對於我們在關鍵地區和電力短缺地區的資產來說是有意義的。

So, yes, if someone came to ask us and it was a project that we've got our arms around, it made sense; had a great rate of return; met the hurdles; we provide the natural gas, maybe even help out with our electricity team or marketing any excess power; sure, we'll look at that.

所以，是的，如果有人來問我們，而且這是一個我們已經掌握的項目，那麼這是有道理的；回報率很高；遇到了障礙；我們提供天然氣，甚至可能幫助我們的電力團隊或行銷多餘的電力；當然，我們會考慮的。

As far as typical, hard to say, I would say this is pretty representative. It might be kind of on the high end, if they really do approach 2 gigawatts. We certainly, are chasing a number of them significantly less than that. But I think, probably, a pretty good range is kind of the 600 megawatts to 1.2 gigawatts -- is probably a pretty good range.

至於典型性，很難說，我會說這是相當有代表性的。如果它們真的達到 2 千兆瓦的話，這可能有點偏高。我們當然正在追逐比這少得多的一些東西。但我認為，一個相當好的範圍可能是 600 兆瓦到 1.2 千兆瓦——可能是相當好的範圍。

There are some outliers, smaller than that, and even larger than 2 gigawatts. But that's probably a fair representation, in a fair way, with a lot of them.

有一些異常值，比這更小，甚至大於 2 千兆瓦。但對其中許多人來說，這可能是一種公平的表述，以一種公平的方式。

Great. Appreciate it.

偉大的。非常感謝。

Gabe Moreen, Mizuho.

瑞穗的加布‧莫林 (Gabe Moreen)。

Hey. Good afternoon, everyone.

嘿。大家下午好。

Can I ask about some of the buckets for 2025 guidance? You've got the commodity bucket. And then, the spread sliver as well.

我可以詢問一些有關 2025 年指導的內容嗎？您已獲得商品桶。然後，碎片也散開了。

Can you just maybe talk within those, I think, NGL prices and that gas prices? Clearly, it's much better this year than last.

可以談談 NGL 價格和天然氣價格嗎？顯然，今年的情況比去年好多了。

Maybe what the delta is in your guidance versus last year? And then, to what extent that may or may not be offset by Waha basis compressing and going into '25?

與去年相比，您的指導意見中的差異可能是多少？那麼，在多大程度上，這可能會或可能不會被 Waha 基礎壓縮並進入 '25 所抵消？

So when we look at the guidance for this year, like always, we're looking out over the forward curves. And we're using those to really set the basis there.

因此，當我們查看今年的指引時，像往常一樣，我們會專注於未來曲線。我們正在利用它們來真正奠定基礎。

So that's the base commodity price assumption. And so I think, as you alluded to one of the headwinds, is that Waha basis. As we look out over the curves here, we don't see nearly the basis that we saw last year.

這是基本商品價格假設。因此我認為，正如您所提到的，其中一個不利因素就是 Waha 的基礎。當我們觀察這裡的曲線時，我們幾乎沒有看到去年看到的基礎。

Now, obviously, that's going into our guide, gives us some upside if things do get tight through the year and those spreads blow out. That obviously pushes up there to the higher end of the range, then.

現在，顯然，這將進入我們的指南，如果全年情況確實變得緊張並且利差擴大，這將為我們帶來一些好處。那麼，這顯然會將該範圍推高至更高水平。

Thanks, Dylan.

謝謝，迪倫。

And then, maybe if I can ask about an update on the South Mississippi project and where that might stand?

然後，也許我可以詢問有關南密西西比項目的最新進展以及其進展？

Yeah. You bet.

是的。當然。

We had a really good open season. There's been a couple other projects announced. Fortunately, the primary markets that we're targeting have nothing to do with those projects. So we're very bullish on that project happening, at some point. It's not something that's going to be overnight.

我們的開放賽季非常好。另有幾個其他項目已宣布。幸運的是，我們所瞄準的主要市場與這些項目無關。因此，我們非常看好該專案最終能夠順利完成。這不是一朝一夕就能完成的事。

We do have significant customers that are willing to step in, today, for material volumes. However, we don't have the kind of commitments to get us to FID.

我們確實有一些重要的客戶願意今天介入以獲取材料數量。然而，我們並沒有做出能夠幫助我們達成最終投資決定的承諾。

There's other projects, other things that we're working on that will feed that project. But we are very optimistic that that project is much needed; a significant market-pull in the Southeast. It will do nothing but grow like a lot of the markets in the South.

我們正在進行其他專案和其他工作，這些工作將為該專案提供支援。但我們非常樂觀地認為該專案非常必要；對東南部市場有顯著的拉動動作用。它將像南方的許多市場一樣不斷成長。

And we're very optimistic that that'll start to pick up momentum, certainly, by the mid to the last half of this year.

我們非常樂觀地認為，到今年中下半年，這個趨勢肯定會開始加速。

Great. Thanks, [Mackie].

偉大的。謝謝，[Mackie]。

[Jackie Quillettes], Goldman Sachs.

[Jackie Quillettes]，高盛。

Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for the time.

你好。午安.感謝您抽出時間。

Just starting on the -- could you walk through more of the drivers or puts-and-takes that are better in guidance for '25? How much of that guide includes implied synergies or optimizations of recently acquired assets, potential -- WTG acquisition, potentially, starting to flow more meaningfully into NGLs, et cetera?

剛開始—您能否詳細介紹一下對 25 年有更好指導意義的驅動因素或優缺點？該指南中有多少包括最近收購的資產的隱含協同效應或優化、潛在的——WTG 收購，可能開始更有意義地流入 NGL 等等？

So as we look out over the guide for this year, I think a couple of things to hit on -- this will include the full year of WTG -- so we got about an extra six months of that.

因此，當我們回顧今年的指南時，我認為有幾件事需要關注 - 這將包括全年的 WTG - 因此我們獲得了大約額外六個月的時間。

We do have some downstream synergies from that, although, I don't think -- they don't materially ramp up, here, on the downstream synergies throughout '25. I think that's more as we get down in '26 and beyond that we really see the material ramp up in those downstream synergies.

我們確實有一些下游協同效應，儘管我不認為——在整個 25 年，下游協同效應不會實質地提升。我認為，隨著我們進入 26 年及以後，我們確實會看到下游協同效應的材料成長。

But we'll get, obviously, the full-year impact, there, in midstream. We'll also pick up the full year, the extra four months of NuStar that will come through our investment in Sunoco.

但顯然，我們會在中期看到全年的影響。我們還將獲得全年收益，即透過對 Sunoco 的投資獲得 NuStar 的額外四個月收益。

A couple of other of the big drivers here. We'll have Flexport coming on, here, in the back half of the year so that'll start to start to contribute and really meaningfully ramp up as we get into the fourtth quarter here.

這裡還有其他幾個重要的驅動因素。 Flexport 將在今年下半年投入使用，因此，當我們進入第四季度時，它將開始貢獻並真正有意義地加速。

So, with growth projects like that coming on, along with some additional premium processing, I think, within the full-year number, you will see that that really start to accelerate through the end of the year, in the fourth quarter, as these projects come on.

因此，隨著此類成長項目的推出以及一些額外的優質處理，我認為，在全年數據中，隨著這些項目的推出，您會看到這一趨勢在年底即第四季度真正開始加速。

Got it. Thanks.

知道了。謝謝。

And just one last one on -- going back to Lake Charles, you still have these SPAs from 2019, 2020, how do you think about the rates of those contracts, given that we're in a new cost regime? And potentially going about restructuring those with your customers? Any color there?

最後一個問題——回到查爾斯湖的問題，您仍然擁有 2019 年、2020 年的 SPA，考慮到我們處於新的成本製度，您如何看待這些合約的費率？並且有可能和你的客戶一起重組這些嗎？有顏色嗎？

Yes. We don't like those prices.

是的。我們不喜歡那些價格。

So, yeah, we are renegotiating those, were there $8 million or $9 million tons we had negotiated. We are in negotiations with every one of those.

是的，我們正在重新談判這些，我們之前談判的價格是 800 萬美元還是 900 萬美元。我們正在與每一個公司進行談判。

To my knowledge, not one of those has backed out yet. Everybody understands how costs have risen. And we are in continued negotiations with those to renegotiate their fees as well as, as I mentioned earlier, numerous other customers that are more in today's pricing realm of what works for our project.

據我所知，至今還沒有一家公司放棄。每個人都了解成本是如何上升的。我們正在繼續與這些客戶重新協商他們的費用，同時，正如我之前提到的，還有許多其他客戶，他們的費用更符合當今的定價範圍，更適合我們的專案。

Great. Thanks so much. That's it for me.

偉大的。非常感謝。對我來說就是這樣了。

This concludes our question-and-answer session.

我們的問答環節到此結束。

I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Tom Long for any closing remarks. Please go ahead, sir.

我想將會議交還給湯姆·朗先生，請他作最後發言。先生，請繼續。

It's [Mackie]. I'll just make one quick comment.

我是 [Mackie]。我只想簡短地發表一點評論。

I just want to say, as we've got a lot of our ENC guys in here, operating team. And even preparing for this and looking what Kelcy's leadership, over all these years, what we built -- you sit and look at our pipeline, you look at our assets throughout the US, how incredible it is.

我只想說，我們這裡有很多 ENC 人員，我們是營運團隊。即使為此做準備，看看凱爾西的領導力，這些年來，我們所建立的——你坐下來看看我們的管道，看看我們在美國的資產，這是多麼令人難以置信。

I know you all follow us and a lot of our peers but I thought about -- I woke up this morning thinking, golly, what if I was looking at a map that just had a bunch of crude pipelines on it? Or I was looking at a map that had a bunch of interstate gas pipelines that ran across the Eastern Seaboard? Or et etcetera, etcetera.

我知道你們都在關注我們和我們的許多同行，但我想到——我今天早上醒來時想，天哪，如果我看到的地圖上只有一堆粗糙的管道怎麼辦？還是我正在看一張地圖，上面有許多橫跨東海岸的州際天然氣管道？或者等等，等等。

And I know you all appreciate it. But, man, what a diverse group of assets that complement each other in so many ways throughout all the major basins in the US! And how fun it is to be the lead commercial guy for this partnership!

我知道你們都很感激這一點。但是，美國所有主要盆地的資產種類多麼多樣化，而且它們在許多方面相互補充！擔任這次合作的首席商業總監是多麼有趣啊！

Man, it's a lot of fun! And we appreciate everything everybody does on this call to support us.

哥們，太有趣了！我們感謝大家在這次通話中給予我們的支持。

Definitely thank all of you for joining us today. And we look forward to any follow-up questions.

非常感謝大家今天的參加。我們期待任何後續問題。

Thank you, everyone.

謝謝大家。

The conference is now concluded.

會議現已結束。

Thank you for attending today's presentation.

感謝您參加今天的演講。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。