Epam Systems Inc (EPAM) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 EPAM Systems earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Finally, I would like to advise all participants that this call is being recorded. Thank you.

大家好，歡迎參加 EPAM Systems 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。（操作員指示）最後，我想告知所有參與者，本次通話正在錄音。謝謝。

I would now like to welcome Mike Rowshandel, Head of Investor Relations to begin the conference. Mike, over to you.

現在，我歡迎投資者關係主管 Mike Rowshandel 開始會議。麥克，交給你了。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. As the operator just mentioned, I'm Mike Rowshandel, Head of Investor Relations. By now you should have received your copy of the earnings release for the company's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results. If you have not, a copy is available on epam.com in the investor relations section.

大家早安，感謝大家今天的參與。正如接線員剛才提到的，我是投資者關係主管 Mike Rowshandel。現在您應該已經收到了該公司 2024 年第四季和全年業績的收益報告副本。如果您還沒有，您可以在 epam.com 的投資者關係部分找到一份副本。

With me on today's call are Arkadiy Dobkin, CEO and President; and Jason Peterson, Chief Financial Officer. I would like to remind those listening that some of the comments made on today's call may contain forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to risk and uncertainties as described in the company's earnings release and SEC filings.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有執行長兼總裁 Arkadiy Dobkin；以及財務長 Jason Peterson。我想提醒聽眾，今天電話會議上的一些評論可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些聲明受到公司收益報告和美國證券交易委員會文件中所述風險和不確定性的影響。

Additionally, all references to reported results that are non-GAAP measures have been reconciled to the comparable GAAP measures and are available in our quarterly earnings materials located in the Investor Relations section of our website.

此外，所有引用非 GAAP 指標的報告結果均已與可比較 GAAP 指標進行協調，並可在我們網站「投資者關係」部分的季度收益資料中查閱。

With that said, I will now turn the call over to Ark.

說了這麼多，現在我將把電話轉給 Ark。

Thank you, Mike. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. It's good to say that our fourth quarter results came in better than expected. It was another quarter of strong execution. Thanks to our engineering differentiation and relevance of our advanced capabilities and service offerings across our new and existing client portfolios. Many of the encouraging teams we shared last quarter have carried through into this quarter.

謝謝你，麥克。大家早安。感謝您今天加入我們。很高興地說，我們第四季的業績好於預期。這又是一個執行力強勁的季度。這得歸功於我們的工程差異化以及我們先進能力和服務產品與新舊客戶組合的相關性。我們在上個季度分享的許多令人鼓舞的團隊都延續到了本季。

Before discussing our Q4 results in some sorts of 2025, I would like to step back and reflect on the full year 2024, which was a year of uneven demand, improved stabilization, and building some sequential momentum.

在討論我們 2025 年第四季的業績之前，我想先回顧一下 2024 年全年，這一年需求不均衡、穩定性提高並形成了一定連續勢頭。

There are three key points I would like to highlight on our performance over the past year. Number one, we were successfully executing our global business strategy while simultaneously addressing many challenges we have accumulated during the last few years. We've done this both organically in the acquisitions with a continuous focus on becoming the most globally geo-balanced company in the world for AI native digital business services.

我想強調我們過去一年的表現的三個重點。首先，我們成功執行了我們的全球業務策略，同時解決了過去幾年累積的許多挑戰。我們透過收購有機地實現了這一目標，同時持續致力於成為全球地理分佈最均衡的人工智慧原生數位業務服務公司。

The two most recent acquisitions, NEORIS and First Derivative, or FD are good examples of how we are investing to accelerate our strategy. They allowed us to meaningfully expand our existing global client relationship and further penetrate new markets and talent geo hubs.

最近兩次的收購 NEORIS 和 First Derivative（簡稱 FD）就是我們透過投資加速策略的很好的例子。它們使我們能夠有效地擴展現有的全球客戶關係，並進一步滲透到新的市場和人才地理中心。

While still early, we see encouraging progress across several net new opportunities with more than a dozen joint pursuits that combine EPAM, NEORIS and FD capabilities together. Number two, We are pleased to end a year is an underlying improvement on our stand-alone business, delivering better results than our expectations earlier in the year when we had to adjust our outlook for a weaker than expected H1.

雖然還處於早期階段，但我們看到多個新機會取得了令人鼓舞的進展，其中有十多個聯合專案將 EPAM、NEORIS 和 FD 功能結合在一起。第二，我們很高興在新的一年結束時，獨立業務有了根本性的改善，取得了比我們年初預期更好的業績，當時我們不得不調整對弱於預期的上半年業績前景的預期。

And finally, number three, exiting 2024, we feel good about the sequential momentum we've built over the past two quarters and see encouraging signs as we look ahead into 2025. But there is still plenty of caution and broad market sensitivity. We believe we see some fundamental improvement in the business, it gives us optimism for 2025 will be much more transformative and better year for us than 2024.

最後，第三，在 2024 年即將結束時，我們對過去兩個季度建立的連續發展勢頭感到滿意，並且在展望 2025 年時看到了令人鼓舞的跡象。但市場仍存在大量謹慎情緒和普遍敏感性。我們相信，我們看到了業務方面的一些根本性改善，這讓我們對 2025 年充滿信心，對我們來說，這將是比 2024 年更具變革性、更好的一年。

Now, turn into Q4 results. During Q4, we grew mid-single digits both year-over-year and sequentially. Notably returning to organic revenue growth for the first time since Q1 of 2023. We continue to see improvements in client sentiments and engagements across all our verticals and geographies and particularly around our AI related capabilities.

現在，轉向第四季的業績。在第四季度，我們的年成長和環比成長均達到了中等個位數。值得注意的是，自 2023 年第一季以來首次恢復有機收入成長。我們繼續看到所有垂直行業和地區的客戶情緒和參與度有所改善，特別是在我們的人工智慧相關能力方面。

Our performance in Q4 was driven by our ability to increase our clients trust and reassure continuous superior quality execution in our key horizontal and vertical domains, while simultaneously with even more globally diversified talent.

我們第四季的業績得益於我們能夠增強客戶信任並確保在關鍵的橫向和縱向領域持續提供卓越的品質執行，同時擁有更多元化的全球人才。

On a stand-alone basis, excluding recent acquisitions, we saw four out of six verticals grew year-over-year with five out of six growing sequentially, reflecting strong momentum from last quarter. Key verticals to call out include life sciences and health care, software and hi-tech, financial Services and emerging. Across geographies, we see a similar story to last quarter with Americas and APAC leading growth year-over-year, with Europe continued to show organic situation revenue growth.

從獨立數據來看，不包括最近的收購，我們發現六分之四的垂直行業同比增長，六分之五的垂直行業環比增長，反映出上個季度的強勁勢頭。需要關注的關鍵垂直產業包括生命科學和醫療保健、軟體和高科技、金融服務和新興產業。從地區來看，我們看到與上一季類似的情況，美洲和亞太地區較去年同期成長領先，歐洲繼續呈現有機收入成長。

Now turning to demand. We are encouraged to see a modestly more positive demand environment compared to 90 days ago. Sentiment continues to improve across our existing and newly acquired client portfolios. These clients rely on us for our core engineering DNA as well as our advanced GenAI capabilities.

現在來談談需求。與 90 天前相比，我們很高興地看到需求環境略微更加積極。我們現有和新獲得的客戶組合的情緒持續改善。這些客戶依賴我們的核心工程 DNA 以及先進的 GenAI 功能。

In some cases, we are consolidating work from other suppliers as clients shift toward a more engineering led and scale programs. In our most recent conversations across the C-suite, the underlying tone and buying signals are higher than they were last year. With further accumulation of technical and data debt over the past 12 months, we are seeing accelerated take-up in more scale and transformational AI programs.

在某些情況下，隨著客戶轉向更以工程為主導和規模化的項目，我們正在整合其他供應商的工作。在我們最近與高階主管的對話中，基本基調和購買訊號比去年更高。隨著過去 12 個月技術和數據債務的進一步積累，我們看到更大規模和變革性的 AI 專案正在加速應用。

Based on the significant backlog of technical and data modernization, along with new AI-related demand, we believe that 2025 will be the year where we begin to see real GenAI first-mover advantages. While we are relatively optimistic about the mid-term outlook, there is more encouraging client buying signals than 12 months back. We do still see multiple packets of caution driven by broad macro risks, policy specific uncertainty due to a very dynamic geopolitical environment and certain challenges in some of our clients and talent market.

基於大量技術和數據現代化積壓，以及新的人工智慧相關需求，我們相信 2025 年將是我們開始看到真正的 GenAI 先發優勢的一年。雖然我們對中期前景相對樂觀，但與 12 個月前相比，客戶購買訊號更加令人鼓舞。我們仍然看到，廣泛的宏觀風險、高度動態的地緣政治環境所導致的具體政策不確定性以及我們的部分客戶和人才市場面臨的某些挑戰引發了多重謹慎情緒。

Further, cost very much remains in focus and continues to be an important decision factor for many of our clients. So based on these uncertainties, in our current vantage point, we are balancing our optimism as clients continue to transition and modestly expand their discretionary spend.

此外，成本仍然是我們關注的重點，並且仍然是我們許多客戶做出決策的重要因素。因此，基於這些不確定性，從我們目前的角度來看，我們正在平衡我們的樂觀情緒，因為客戶將繼續轉型並適度擴大他們的可自由支配支出。

Moving into our global delivery approach, we demonstrated strong execution throughout the year. As we continue to diversify our global talent pools and bring in more optionality to our clients across all four of our major delivery hubs in Europe, India, Latin America, and Western and Central Asia.

在我們的全球交付方式中，我們全年都展現了強勁的執行力。我們持續實現全球人才庫的多元化，為歐洲、印度、拉丁美洲、西亞和中亞四大主要交付中心的客戶提供更多的選擇。

In Q4, we saw sequential improvements of net organic additions which was broader than just India and included some of our traditional European locations. Europe remains core to us as a top talent pool, and we believe we will continue to grow in the region as discretionary spend returns to higher levels. Ukraine is an interesting example to share given the geopolitical environment. Our production headcount remained mostly in line year-over-year.

在第四季度，我們看到淨有機增量的連續改善，這不僅限於印度，還包括我們的一些傳統的歐洲工廠。歐洲仍然是我們頂尖人才庫的核心，我們相信，隨著可自由支配支出回歸到更高水平，我們將繼續在該地區成長。考慮到地緣政治環境，烏克蘭是一個值得分享的有趣例子。我們的生產員工數量與去年同期相比基本保持不變。

In Q4, we saw sequential net additions for the first time since the start of the Russian invasion. We believe this is a positive signal of our clients comfort level and desire to return to some of our traditional locations. In India, we hit an important milestone for the company as it now represents our largest single country delivery location and second as a region.

在第四季度，我們首次看到了自俄羅斯入侵以來的連續淨成長。我們相信這是一個積極的信號，表明我們的客戶感到舒適並希望重返我們的一些傳統地點。在印度，我們達到了公司的一個重要里程碑，因為它現在是我們最大的單一國家交付地點和第二大地區。

In just 10 years, EPAM has achieved 10x growth in India with now over 10,000 employees. This speaks to our ability to adapt to changing market conditions and our commitment to invest in a globally diverse and talent workforce in line with EPAM work DNA. In Latin America, we significantly strengthened our footprint with NEORIS, making Latin America, our third largest delivery region and a very important pillar in our global model.

短短 10 年內，EPAM 在印度實現了 10 倍的成長，目前擁有超過 10,000 名員工。這證明了我們適應不斷變化的市場條件的能力，以及我們致力於投資符合 EPAM 工作 DNA 的全球多元化人才隊伍。在拉丁美洲，我們透過 NEORIS 顯著加強了我們的業務範圍，使拉丁美洲成為了我們第三大交付區域和我們全球模式中非常重要的支柱。

We believe we have now the right mix of talent focusing on delivery for North American clients, coupled with deep local expertise and strong capabilities to engage and deliver in LatAm. In Western Central Asia, as we mentioned last quarter, we continue to progress quite nicely with our still relatively new delivery hub of over 7,300 people now.

我們相信，我們現在擁有合適的人才組合，專注於為北美客戶提供服務，同時擁有深厚的本地專業知識和強大的參與和在拉美地區交付的能力。正如我們上個季度提到的那樣，在中亞西部，我們繼續取得良好的進展，我們的配送中心仍然相對較新，目前擁有超過 7,300 名員工。

Back to the two acquisitions we closed in Q4. In overall, with NEORIS and FD, we significantly increased our global footprint with the addition of nearly 6,000 people combined, primarily across Latin America, Canada, Spain, UK and Ireland. We remain committed to executing our global delivery strategy further. Now shifting to GenAI.

回顧我們在第四季完成的兩次收購。總體而言，透過 NEORIS 和 FD，我們的全球業務範圍顯著擴大，共增加了近 6,000 名員工，主要分佈在拉丁美洲、加拿大、西班牙、英國和愛爾蘭。我們將繼續致力於進一步執行我們的全球交付策略。現在轉向 GenAI。

Even with all the recent noise, sometimes the significant level of confusion and debates, we are seeing indicators of positive change and growing impact. Overall, we continue to make significant traction across our client portfolio with now 75% of our top 100 clients engaged on GenAI initiatives.

儘管最近存在著許多噪音，有時甚至出現相當程度的混亂和爭論，但我們仍看到了積極變化和日益增強的影響的跡象。總體而言，我們繼續在客戶組合中取得顯著進展，目前我們前 100 名客戶中有 75％ 參與了 GenAI 計劃。

Our early-stage projects continued to show strong growth year-over-year with hundreds of new verticals, use cases emerging and turning into agentic AI pilots. Within our midsized AI projects with more defined outcomes, we are beginning to see more volume, and we believe this speaks to the investment and traction clients are making in this space. These programs have a high probability of turning into agentic transformation plays in key horizontal and vertical domains.

我們的早期專案持續呈現逐年強勁成長，數百個新的垂直領域、用例不斷湧現並轉變為代理 AI 試點。在我們的中型人工智慧專案中，由於成果更加明確，我們開始看到更多的數量，我們相信這說明客戶在這個領域的投資和吸引力。這些項目很有可能轉化為關鍵橫向和縱向領域的主動轉型措施。

Finally, in our larger scale AI factories, we manage the entire portfolio of agents and applications throughout the program life cycle and generate tens of millions of dollars in value by each such engagement. Our GenAI and AI driven client engagement could also be presented in three major dimensions. Dimension 1 is DOC and other related areas of individual and team productivity improvements.

最後，在我們更大規模的人工智慧工廠中，我們在整個程式生命週期內管理整個代理商和應用程式組合，並透過每次這樣的參與創造數千萬美元的價值。我們的 GenAI 和 AI 驅動的客戶參與也可以從三個主要維度來呈現。維度 1 是 DOC 以及個人和團隊生產力改進的其他相關領域。

Dimension 2, data and cloud engagements triggered by the need to enable a AI-native programs at scale. Dimension 3 scale AI-native programs and platforms as a goal to drive value against proven business cases and when clients already solve their data and cloud infrastructure challenges.

第二維度，資料和雲端參與是由大規模啟用 AI 原生程式的需求引發的。Dimension 3 擴展 AI 原生程式和平台，目標是根據經過驗證的業務案例以及在客戶已經解決其資料和雲端基礎設施挑戰時推動價值。

Let me expand a bit on this. Within Dimension 1, we are addressing the need of complex enterprise-level engagements to orchestrate individual efforts toward total productivity improvements at large teams and programs levels via all latest GenAI advances.

讓我稍微詳細闡述一下這一點。在維度 1 中，我們正在解決複雜的企業級參與的需求，透過所有最新的 GenAI 進展來協調個人努力，以提高大型團隊和程序級別的整體生產力。

Often to have real engagement impact, our hybrid client teams must have the same level of modern engineering maturity has purposely GenAI trained our own teams. That is why we are offering to client GenAI-enabled software development life cycle or SDLC transformational programs, utilizing market-leading tools and methodologies along with the EPAM AI/Run framework built on top of our own DIAL, EliteA, AI/RUN and some other IP assets.

通常，為了產生真正的參與影響，我們的混合客戶團隊必須具有與 GenAI 特意訓練我們自己的團隊相同的現代工程成熟度。這就是為什麼我們為客戶提供支援 GenAI 的軟體開發生命週期或 SDLC 轉型計劃，利用市場領先的工具和方法以及在我們自己的 DIAL、EliteA、AI/RUN 和其他一些 IP 資產之上構建的 EPAM AI/Run 框架。

It may significantly impact on large concrete engagement and helps to advance the adoption of AI in large-scale enterprises while bringing measurable value through both cost optimization and the creation of new revenue streams. While I believe dimension 2 is very much self-explanatory. Dimension 3 is our go-to-market business transformation programs, natively enabled by GenAI and AI technology. As we move into a more comprehensive agentic proposition, our AI native engagement are starting to be picked up in the volume and size.

它可能對大型具體參與產生重大影響，並有助於推動大型企業採用人工智慧，同時透過成本優化和創造新的收入來源帶來可衡量的價值。而我相信第二維度是非常不言自明的。維度 3 是我們面向市場的業務轉型計劃，由 GenAI 和 AI 技術原生支援。隨著我們進入更全面的代理主張，我們的人工智慧原生參與在數量和規模上開始得到提升。

Compared to the first half of 2024, where we were generating single-digit millions of revenue from this AI-native programs, Q4 stands out by generating about $50 million in that category. Let me share two client examples to further illustrate how our efforts are driving client engagement and generating real pragmatic value.

與 2024 年上半年我們從這些 AI 原生程式中獲得了數百萬美元的收入相比，第四季的這一類別收入約為 5000 萬美元。讓我分享兩個客戶案例，進一步說明我們的努力如何推動客戶參與並創造真正的務實價值。

Let's start with Canadian Tire Corporation, the largest retail chain in Canada, where we have embarked on a journey to standardize and modernize source to deliver life cycle. With the combined power of CTC Product Engineering Center of Excellence and EPAM know-how, we are already driving initial results with very real optimization and efficiency savings.

讓我們從加拿大最大的零售連鎖店加拿大輪胎公司開始，我們已經踏上了標準化和現代化源頭到交付生命週期的旅程。憑藉 CTC 產品工程卓越中心和 EPAM 專業知識的綜合力量，我們已透過實際優化和效率節約取得了初步成果。

So far EPAM has effectively deployed the EliteA platform across CTC delivery organization, trained more than 700 individuals and ensures comprehensive adoption of new modernized tools. This is a real example of how our approach amplifies organizational productivity, reduces costs and improves in team and cross-team collaboration and serves as foundation for the next-generation agentic platform for SDLC.

到目前為止，EPAM 已在 CTC 交付組織中有效部署了 EliteA 平台，培訓了 700 多名員工，並確保全面採用新的現代化工具。這是我們的方法如何提高組織生產力、降低成本、改善團隊和跨團隊協作並為 SDLC 的下一代代理平台奠定基礎的一個真實例子。

Another notable example of real progress at scale is our expanded engagements with Baker Hughes, one of the world's largest oil field services, industrial and energy technology companies. We are enabling Baker Hughes in building and offering to their clients, larger AI native digital platforms by combining EPAM best-in-class product engineering capabilities with Baker Hughes expertise in energy technology.

另一個顯著的大規模真正進步的例子是我們與貝克休斯（世界上最大的油田服務、工業和能源技術公司之一）的擴大合作。我們將 EPAM 一流的產品工程能力與貝克休斯在能源技術方面的專業知識相結合，幫助貝克休斯為其客戶建立和提供更大規模的 AI 原生數位平台。

Just a few weeks ago, Baker Hughes named EPAM as a key partner for digital NAI to transform the energy sector while leveraging advanced AI-native digital platform implementations at scale. We believe EPAM is one of the few AI-native service providers who can demonstrate scale programs with proven AI ROI today, which is also well enabled by our growing global partnerships with cloud and data major providers with whom we are expanding our collaborations and focusing on general agentic AI road to marketplace.

就在幾週前，貝克休斯將 EPAM 評為數位 NAI 的重要合作夥伴，以改造能源產業，同時大規模利用先進的 AI 原生數位平台實施。我們相信 EPAM 是目前為數不多的能夠展示具有成熟 AI 投資回報率的規模計劃的 AI 原生服務提供商之一，這也得益於我們與雲端和數據主要提供商日益增長的全球合作夥伴關係，我們正在擴大與這些提供商的合作，並專注於通用代理 AI 進入市場的道路。

Now if we step back and look at a bigger picture, more broadly for 2025 and beyond. Our thesis remains unchanged. We believe the demand for advanced AI native and agentic software and data engineering services will only increase as engineering productivity gains will be significantly outsized by incremental demand to build new and replace the legacies as clients quickly expand in their focus to solve more complex tasks more efficiently.

現在，如果我們退一步，放眼更大範圍，展望 2025 年及以後。我們的論點保持不變。我們相信，隨著客戶迅速擴大關注範圍以更有效地解決更複雜的任務，對工程生產力的提高將遠遠超過構建新產品和替換舊產品的增量需求，因此對先進的人工智能原生和代理軟體和數據工程服務的需求只會增加。

Further, the need for security modernization and managing enterprise data platforms will continue to demand skilled expertise that combines critical skills with modern engineering and data science capabilities, all areas in which EPAM excels.

此外，安全現代化和管理企業資料平台的需求將繼續需要將關鍵技能與現代工程和資料科學能力結合的熟練專業知識，而這些都是 EPAM 擅長的領域。

To conclude, we are pleased with our stronger-than-expected Q4 results and stabilization achieved during the last year. Our new AI-native capabilities, data and core engineering differentiation remained evident. While we are more globally diversified today than ever before, we continue to see clients return to quality and reliable execution, and we believe that is putting us into a stronger competitive position today compared to last year.

總而言之，我們對第四季度超出預期的業績和去年實現的穩定感到滿意。我們新的 AI 原生功能、數據和核心工程差異化依然明顯。雖然我們今天比以往任何時候都更加全球化，但我們繼續看到客戶回歸到高品質和可靠的執行，我們相信，與去年相比，這使我們今天處於更強大的競爭地位。

At the same time, we do believe 2025 will be still a challenging and transformative year for the industry, with a lot of pressure to navigate two opposite trends across our client base. One is still being driven by cost sensitivity, while in other, by the need to return to more discretionary spending and addressing accumulated during the last few years backlog, which means also that EPAM will be performing during 2025.

同時，我們確實相信 2025 年對產業來說仍然將是充滿挑戰和變革的一年，我們將面臨巨大的壓力來應對客戶群中兩種相反的趨勢。一方面仍受成本敏感性的驅動，另一方面，則需要恢復更多的可自由支配的支出，並解決過去幾年累積的積壓問題，這也意味著 EPAM 將在 2025 年發揮作用。

This continuous margin pressures triggered by necessity to invest across several important for us in 2025 areas such as critical skills and talent retention and development, agentic AI and GenAI IP including advancements, integration efforts of our recent acquisitions and go-to-market strategies. That should allow us to be in the right standing when discretionary demand environment will fully rebound.

這種持續的利潤壓力源於我們需要在 2025 年對幾個重要領域進行投資，例如關鍵技能和人才保留與發展、代理 AI 和 GenAI IP 的進步、我們最近收購的整合工作以及市場進入策略。當可自由支配需求環境全面反彈時，這將使我們處於正確的地位。

So while we remain vigilant to potential headwinds, we believe our strategic positioning and ongoing initiative place us on the trajectory for sustainable performance and growth in 2025 and beyond.

因此，在我們對潛在阻力保持警惕的同時，我們相信，我們的策略定位和持續舉措將使我們走上 2025 年及以後可持續業績和成長的軌道。

Let me now turn the call over to Jason who will provide additional details on our Q4 results and 2025 outlook.

現在，我將把電話轉給 Jason，他將提供有關我們第四季度業績和 2025 年展望的更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Ark, and good morning, everyone. In the fourth quarter, EPAM generated revenues of $1.25 billion, a year-over-year increase of 7.9% on a reported basis, including revenues from recent acquisitions, NEORIS and First Derivative.

謝謝你，阿克，大家早安。第四季度，EPAM 實現營收 12.5 億美元，年增 7.9%，其中包括近期收購 NEORIS 和 First Derivative 的收入。

On an organic constant currency basis, revenues grew 1% compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. In Q4, we are pleased to return to year-over-year organic revenue growth. Organic revenues exceeded our Q4 guidance due to higher-than-expected new project starts, indicating modestly improving client sentiment.

以有機固定匯率計算，營收與 2023 年第四季相比成長了 1%。第四季度，我們很高興看到有機收入再次實現同比增長。由於新項目開工量高於預期，有機收入超過了我們對第四季度的預期，顯示客戶情緒略有改善。

Due to the quarter's significant inorganic revenue contribution, I will speak to both organic and inorganic revenues as I discuss industry vertical and geographic performance. Beginning with industry verticals, I want to echo Ark's comments that in Q4, five out of six of our industry verticals delivered sequential organic revenue growth. Only the travel and consumer vertical declined Q3 to Q4.

由於本季無機收入貢獻巨大，在討論行業垂直和地理表現時，我將同時談論有機收入和無機收入。從垂直行業開始，我想重複 Ark 的評論，即在第四季度，我們六個垂直行業中有五個實現了連續的有機收入成長。只有旅遊和消費者垂直產業在第三季至第四季下滑。

Financial Services delivered very strong growth of 15.9% year-over-year, reflecting 4.3% organic and 11.6% inorganic growth, driven by continued strength in the banking, insurance and payment sector. Life Sciences and Health Care increased 8.6% on a year-over-year basis, reflecting 5.7% organic and 2.9% inorganic growth. Growth in the quarter was driven primarily by clients in life sciences, including some revenues derived from new logo accounts.

金融服務業務年增 15.9%，其中有機成長 4.3%，無機成長 11.6%，這得益於銀行、保險和支付產業持續強勁的成長。生命科學與醫療保健業務年增 8.6%，其中有機成長 5.7%，無機成長 2.9%。本季的成長主要得益於生命科學領域的客戶，其中包括一些來自新標誌帳戶的收入。

Software and Hi-Tech increased 7.7% year-over-year, reflecting 6.4% organic and 1.3% inorganic growth. Consumer goods, retail and travel decreased 3% year-over-year, reflecting a negative 5.7% organic and a positive 2.7% inorganic growth largely due to declines in consumer products and retail, partially offset by growth in travel. Business information and media declined 3.9% year-over-year, reflecting negative 4.7% organic and positive 0.8% inorganic growth.

軟體和高科技年增 7.7%，其中有機成長 6.4%，無機成長 1.3%。消費品、零售和旅遊業年減 3%，其中有機成長 5.7%，無機成長 2.7%，這主要是由於消費品和零售業的下滑，但卻被旅遊業的成長部分抵銷。商業資訊和媒體年減 3.9%，其中有機成長 4.7%，無機成長 0.8%。

Revenue in the quarter was impacted by the previously discussed ramp down of the top 20 clients. However, sequentially, we were encouraged to see the vertical return to strong growth as we continue to build momentum. And finally, our emerging verticals delivered very strong growth of 24.8%, reflecting 3% organic and 21.8% inorganic growth.

本季的收入受到了先前討論的前 20 大客戶數量減少的影響。然而，隨著我們繼續保持強勁成長勢頭，我們很高興看到垂直業務恢復強勁成長。最後，我們的新興垂直產業實現了 24.8% 的強勁成長，其中有機成長 3%，無機成長 21.8%。

Growth was primarily driven by clients in energy, manufacturing and industrial materials with significant contribution coming from NEORIS. From a geographic perspective, the Americas, our largest region, representing 60% of our Q4 revenues, increased 11.4% year-over-year, reflecting 2.7% organic and 8.7% inorganic growth.

成長主要由能源、製造業和工業材料領域的客戶推動，其中 NEORIS 做出了重大貢獻。從地理角度來看，美洲是我們最大的地區，占我們第四季營收的 60%，年增 11.4%，其中有機成長 2.7%，無機成長 8.7%。

EMEA, representing 38% of our Q4 revenues increased 3.1% year-over-year, reflecting a negative 1.4% organic and positive 4.5% inorganic growth. In the quarter, the region continued to show sequential organic revenue improvement. And finally, APAC increased 4.3% year-over-year and represents 2% of our revenues. In Q4, revenues from our top 20 clients grew 4% year-over-year, while revenues from clients outside our top 20 increased 10%.

歐洲、中東和非洲地區占我們第四季營收的 38%，年增 3.1%，其中有機成長 1.4%，無機成長 4.5%。本季度，該地區繼續呈現連續的有機收入成長。最後，亞太地區年增 4.3%，占我們營收的 2%。第四季度，來自我們前 20 名客戶的營收年增 4%，而來自前 20 名以外客戶的營收成長了 10%。

Moving on to the income statement. Our GAAP gross margin for the quarter was 30.4% compared to 31.1% in Q4 of last year. Non-GAAP gross margin for the quarter was 32.2% compared to 33% for the same quarter last year. Relative to Q4 2023, gross margin in Q4 2024 was negatively impacted by compensation increases, including those resulting from our 2024 promotion campaign, which we were not able to offset through pricing as well as lower profitability of recent acquisitions.

繼續看損益表。本季我們的 GAAP 毛利率為 30.4%，去年第四季為 31.1%。本季非公認會計準則毛利率為 32.2%，去年同期為 33%。與 2023 年第四季相比，2024 年第四季的毛利率受到薪酬增加的負面影響，包括我們 2024 年促銷活動導致的薪酬增加，我們無法透過定價以及最近收購的盈利能力下降來抵消這些影響。

The compensation increases, along with lower profitability from acquisitions and negative foreign exchange impact, exceeded the benefits of improved utilization and a positive impact from the Poland R&D incentive. GAAP SG&A was 17.4% of revenue compared to 18.5% in Q4 of last year. Non-GAAP SG&A came in at 14.4% of revenue compared to 14.2% in the same period last year.

薪資增加，加上收購帶來的獲利能力下降和負面的外匯影響，超過了利用率提高和波蘭研發激勵帶來的正面影響。GAAP 銷售、一般及行政費用佔收入的 17.4%，去年第四季為 18.5%。非公認會計準則銷售、一般及行政支出佔收入的 14.4%，去年同期為 14.2%。

SG&A measured as a percent of revenue is now higher in part due to our recent acquisitions running with higher SG&A levels compared to our stand-alone business. SG&A expense for Q4 2024 reflects SG&A associated with recent acquisitions as well as higher variable compensation compared to Q4 2023. GAAP income from operations was $137 million or 10.9% of revenue in the quarter compared to $122 million or 10.6% of revenue in Q4 of last year.

以佔收入的百分比來衡量的銷售、一般和行政費用現在更高了，部分原因是我們最近的收購的銷售、一般和行政費用水平比我們的獨立業務更高。2024 年第四季的銷售、一般及行政費用反映了與最近的收購相關的銷售、一般及行政費用以及與 2023 年第四季度相比更高的可變薪酬。本季 GAAP 營業收入為 1.37 億美元，佔營收的 10.9%，去年同期為 1.22 億美元，佔營收的 10.6%。

Non-GAAP income from operations was $208 million or 16.7% of revenue in the quarter compared to $200 million or 17.3% of revenue in Q4 of last year. Our GAAP effective tax rate for the quarter came in at 24.8%, and our non-GAAP effective tax rate was 24%. Diluted earnings per share on a GAAP basis was $1.80. Our non-GAAP diluted EPS was $2.84, reflecting an increase of $0.09 or 3.3% compared to the same quarter in 2023.

本季非公認會計準則營業利潤為 2.08 億美元，佔營收的 16.7%，去年同期為 2 億美元，佔營收的 17.3%。我們本季的 GAAP 有效稅率為 24.8%，非 GAAP 有效稅率為 24%。根據 GAAP 計算的每股攤薄收益為 1.80 美元。我們的非 GAAP 稀釋每股收益為 2.84 美元，較 2023 年同期增加 0.09 美元或 3.3%。

In Q4, there were approximately 57.4 million diluted shares outstanding. Turning to our cash flow and balance sheet. Cash flow from operations for Q4 was $130 million compared to $171 million in the same quarter of 2023. Free cash flow was $115 million compared to free cash flow of $161 million in the same quarter last year. We ended the quarter with approximately $1.3 billion in cash and cash equivalents, which is lower compared to the same quarter last year due to our recently completed acquisitions.

第四季度，稀釋流通股數約 5,740 萬股。轉向我們的現金流和資產負債表。第四季的經營現金流為 1.3 億美元，而 2023 年同期為 1.71 億美元。自由現金流為 1.15 億美元，而去年同期的自由現金流為 1.61 億美元。本季結束時，我們的現金和現金等價物約為 13 億美元，由於我們最近完成的收購，該數字低於去年同期。

At the end of Q4 DSO was 70 days compared to 74 days in Q3 2024 and 71 days in the same quarter last year. Share repurchases in the fourth quarter were approximately 53,000 shares for $13 million at an average price of $241.99 per share. Moving on to a few operational metrics for the quarter.

第四季末的 DSO 為 70 天，而 2024 年第三季為 74 天，去年同期為 71 天。第四季股票回購量約為 53,000 股，回購金額為 1,300 萬美元，平均價格為每股 241.99 美元。接下來討論本季的一些營運指標。

We ended Q4 with more than 55,100 consultants, designers, engineers, trainers, and architects, a growth of 16.3% compared to Q4 of 2023. This was a result of recent acquisitions, which contributed nearly 6,000 delivery professionals. In addition to solid organic growth, which contributed sequential net additions of around 1,500 employees in the quarter. Our total head count for the quarter was 61,200 employees.

截至第四季度，我們擁有超過 55,100 名顧問、設計師、工程師、培訓師和建築師，與 2023 年第四季相比成長了 16.3%。這是最近的收購的結果，貢獻了近 6,000 名送貨專業人員。除了穩健的有機成長外，本季還連續淨增加約 1,500 名員工。本季我們的員工總數為 61,200 名。

Utilization was 76.2% compared to 74.4% in Q4 of last year and 76.4% in Q3 2024. Turning to our 2024 full year results. Revenues for the year were $473 billion (sic - see press release, "4.728 billion"), up 0.8% on a reported basis year-over-year.

利用率為 76.2%，而去年第四季為 74.4%，2024 年第三季為 76.4%。談到我們的 2024 年全年業績。全年營收為 4,730 億美元（原文如此 - 請參閱新聞稿「47.28 億美元」），以報告基礎計算年增 0.8%。

On an organic constant currency basis, revenues were down 1.7% year-over-year. GAAP income from operations was $545 million, an increase of 8.6% year-over-year and represented 11.5% of revenue. GAAP income from operations benefited from the recognition of $69 million of incentives related to research and development activities performed in Poland and was negatively impacted by $31 million of severance-related costs.

以有機固定匯率計算，營收年減 1.7%。根據美國通用會計準則 (GAAP)，營業利潤為 5.45 億美元，比去年同期成長 8.6%，佔營收的 11.5%。根據美國通用會計準則計算的營業利潤受益於對在波蘭開展的研究和開發活動相關的 6,900 萬美元獎勵的確認，但受到 3,100 萬美元遣散費相關成本的負面影響。

Our non-GAAP income from operations was $779 million, a growth of 1.8% compared to the prior year and represented 16.5% of revenue. Our non-GAAP income from operations benefited from the recognition of $45 million of incentives related to research and development activities performed in Poland in 2024. Our GAAP effective tax rate for the year was 22.2%. Our non-GAAP effective tax rate was 24%. Diluted earnings per share on a GAAP basis was $7.84.

我們的非公認會計準則營業收入為 7.79 億美元，比上年增長 1.8%，佔收入的 16.5%。我們的非公認會計準則營業收入受益於 2024 年在波蘭開展的研究和開發活動相關的 4500 萬美元獎勵。我們今年的 GAAP 有效稅率為 22.2%。我們的非公認會計準則有效稅率為 24%。根據 GAAP 計算的每股攤薄收益為 7.84 美元。

Non-GAAP EPS which excludes adjustments for stock-based compensation, acquisition-related costs and certain other one-time items, including costs associated with our cost optimization programs was $10.86, reflecting a 2.5% increase over fiscal 2023.

非公認會計準則每股收益（不包括股票薪酬、收購相關成本和某些其他一次性項目的調整，包括與我們的成本優化計劃相關的成本）為 10.86 美元，比 2023 財年增長 2.5%。

In 2024, there were approximately 58 million weighted average diluted shares outstanding. Cash flow from operations was $559 million compared to $563 million for 2023 and free cash flow was $527 million, reflecting 83.7% adjusted net income conversion. And finally, shares repurchased in 2024 were approximately 1,854,000 shares for $398 million at an average price of $214.65 per share.

2024 年，已發行加權平均稀釋股份約為 5,800 萬股。營運現金流為 5.59 億美元，而 2023 年為 5.63 億美元，自由現金流為 5.27 億美元，調整後淨收入轉換率為 83.7%。最後，2024 年回購的股票約為 1,854,000 股，價值 3.98 億美元，平均價格為每股 214.65 美元。

Now let's turn to guidance. Before moving to the specifics of our 2025 and Q1 outlook, I would like to provide some thoughts to help frame our guidance. We've been pleased with the progress we are making on demand generation, and we'll continue to prioritize revenue growth into 2025.

現在讓我們來談談指引。在討論 2025 年和第一季的具體展望之前，我想提供一些想法來幫助制定指導。我們對在需求產生方面取得的進展感到滿意，我們將繼續把收入成長作為 2025 年的優先事項。

We ceased building client budgets and some degree of shift in spending towards growth and strategic programs. In 2025, we expect flat year-over-year organic revenue growth in Q1, followed by continued improvement throughout the year. In terms of profitability for 2025, we do expect to run the business at somewhat lower levels of profitability than we have in past years.

我們停止制定客戶預算，並在一定程度上將支出轉向成長和策略計畫。到 2025 年，我們預計第一季有機收入將同比持平，隨後全年將繼續改善。就 2025 年的獲利能力而言，我們確實預期業務的獲利水準會比過去幾年有所下降。

As Ark mentioned, we are investing in retaining our top talent as well as further accelerating investments in our advanced GenAI platforms and tools. Compensation increases to retain talent for future growth combined with the limited ability to improve client pricing in the near term and additional pressure from dilutive impact of recent acquisitions will continue to put pressure on profitability this year.

正如 Ark 所提到的，我們正在投資留住頂尖人才，並進一步加快對先進的 GenAI 平台和工具的投資。為了留住人才以實現未來成長而增加薪酬，加上短期內改善客戶定價的能力有限，以及最近收購的稀釋影響帶來的額外壓力，將繼續對今年的盈利能力造成壓力。

However, we do expect to see improvement in our profitability levels from the first half to the second half of the year. Our guidance assumes that we will continue to be able to deliver from our Ukraine delivery centers at productivity levels similar to those achieved in 2024.

然而，我們確實預計我們的獲利水準將在今年上半年到下半年有所提高。我們的指導假設是，我們將繼續能夠從烏克蘭交付中心以與 2024 年類似的生產力水平進行交付。

Now starting with our full year outlook. Revenue growth will be in the range of 10% to 14%, with an inorganic contribution of approximately 10% for 2025. Foreign exchange is expected to have a negative impact of 0.9%. We expect GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 9% to 10% and non-GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 14.5% to 15.5%.

現在開始我們的全年展望。營收成長將在 10% 至 14% 之間，其中 2025 年無機貢獻約為 10%。預計外匯將產生0.9%的負面影響。我們預計 GAAP 營業利潤將在 9% 至 10% 之間，非 GAAP 營業利潤將在 14.5% 至 15.5% 之間。

We expect our GAAP effective tax rate to be approximately 24%. Our non-GAAP effective tax rate, which excludes excess tax benefits related to stock-based compensation will also be 24%. Earnings per share, we expect the GAAP diluted EPS will be in the range of $6.78 to $7.08 for the full year, and non-GAAP diluted EPS will be in the range of $10.45 to $10.75 for the full year.

我們預計我們的 GAAP 有效稅率約為 24%。我們的非公認會計準則有效稅率（不包括與股票薪資相關的超額稅收優惠）也將為 24%。每股收益，我們預計全年GAAP稀釋每股收益在6.78美元至7.08美元之間，非GAAP稀釋每股收益在10.45美元至10.75美元之間。

We expect weighted average share count of 58.1 million fully diluted shares outstanding. For Q1 of 2025, we expect revenues to be in the range of $1.275 billion to $1.290 billion, producing year-over-year growth of approximately 10%. Our guidance reflects an inorganic contribution of 11.4% with a 1.4% negative FX impact during the quarter.

我們預計，完全稀釋後流通股數的加權平均為 5,810 萬股。對於 2025 年第一季度，我們預計營收在 12.75 億美元至 12.9 億美元之間，年增約 10%。我們的指引反映出本季無機貢獻為 11.4%，外匯負面影響為 1.4%。

For the first quarter, we expect GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 6.5% to 7.5% and non-GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 12.5% to 13.5%. Our Q1 income from operations guide reflects the impact of resetting social security caps, the negative impact of 2024 compensation increases, which we were unable to offset with better pricing, dilution from recent acquisitions and a slightly softer revenue in the month of January as clients in certain verticals finalize budgets.

對於第一季度，我們預計 GAAP 營業利潤將在 6.5% 至 7.5% 之間，非 GAAP 營業利潤將在 12.5% 至 13.5% 之間。我們的第一季營業收入指南反映了重置社會安全上限的影響、2024 年薪酬增加的負面影響（我們無法透過更好的定價、最近收購帶來的稀釋以及 1 月份由於某些垂直行業的客戶最終確定預算而導致的收入略有下降）來抵消這些影響。

For the first quarter, we expect GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 6.5% to 7.5% and non-GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 12.5% to 13.5%. Our Q1 income from operations guide reflects the impact of resetting social security caps, the negative impact of 2024 compensation increases, which we were unable to offset with better pricing dilution from recent acquisitions and slightly softer revenues in the month of January as clients in certain verticals finalized budgets.

對於第一季度，我們預計 GAAP 營業利潤將在 6.5% 至 7.5% 之間，非 GAAP 營業利潤將在 12.5% 至 13.5% 之間。我們的第一季營業收入指南反映了重置社會安全上限的影響、2024 年薪酬增加的負面影響，我們無法透過最近的收購帶來的更好的價格稀釋以及 1 月份由於某些垂直行業的客戶最終確定預算而導致的收入略有下降來抵消這些影響。

We expect a weighted average share count of 57.7 million diluted shares outstanding. Finally, a few key assumptions that support our GAAP to non-GAAP measurements for 2025. Stock-based compensation expense is expected to be approximately $194 million with $50 million in Q1, $44 million in Q2 and $50 million in each remaining quarter.

我們預計加權平均流通股數為 5,770 萬股。最後，有幾個支持我們對 2025 年 GAAP 至非 GAAP 衡量標準的關鍵假設。股票薪資費用預計約為 1.94 億美元，其中第一季為 5,000 萬美元，第二季為 4,400 萬美元，剩餘每季為 5,000 萬美元。

Amortization of intangibles is expected to be approximately $68 million for the year, with approximately $18 million in Q1 and $17 million in each remaining quarter. The impact of foreign exchange is expected to be approximately $1 million loss each quarter. Tax effective non-GAAP adjustments is expected to be approximately $61 million for the year was $17 million in Q1, $14 million in Q2 and $15 million in each remaining quarter.

預計全年無形資產攤銷約 6,800 萬美元，其中第一季約為 1,800 萬美元，剩餘每季約 1,700 萬美元。預計外匯的影響每季將造成約 100 萬美元的損失。預計全年稅收有效非 GAAP 調整約為 6,100 萬美元，其中第一季為 1,700 萬美元，第二季為 1,400 萬美元，剩餘每季為 1,500 萬美元。

We expect excess tax benefits to be around $14 million for the full year, with approximately $7 million in Q1, $2 million in Q2, $1 million in Q3 and $3 million in Q4. Severance driven by our 2024 cost optimization program is expected to be $6 million in Q1 and $1 million in Q2.

我們預計全年超額稅收優惠約為 1,400 萬美元，其中第一季約為 700 萬美元，第二季約為 200 萬美元，第三季約為 100 萬美元，第四季約 300 萬美元。我們的 2024 年成本優化計畫所帶來的遣散費預計在第一季為 600 萬美元，在第二季為 100 萬美元。

Finally, one more assumption outside of our GAAP to non-GAAP items, we maintain a significant level of cash and are generating a healthy level of interest income. However, based on the reduction in cash resulting from the recent acquisitions, we are expecting interest and other income to be smaller in 2025 compared to 2024.

最後，除了我們的 GAAP 到非 GAAP 項目之外，還有一個假設，我們保持了大量的現金，並產生了健康的利息收入水準。然而，基於最近的收購導致的現金減少，我們預計 2025 年的利息和其他收入將比 2024 年減少。

With around $18 million for the 2025 full year with $4 million in Q1 and Q2 and $5 million in each remaining quarter. My thanks to all the EPAMers who made 2024 a successful year, and will help us drive growth throughout 2025.

2025 年全年約為 1,800 萬美元，其中第一季和第二季為 400 萬美元，剩餘每季為 500 萬美元。我感謝所有 EPAM 員工，他們讓 2024 年成為成功的一年，並將幫助我們在 2025 年推動成長。

Operator, let's open the call for questions.

接線員，讓我們開始提問吧。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Maggie Nolan, William Blair.

瑪吉諾蘭，威廉布萊爾。

Thank you. Jason, I was hoping you could elaborate a little bit on the expectations that are embedded in the top end and the low end of revenue guidance, both company-specific and from a macro perspective?

謝謝。傑森，我希望您能詳細說明收入預期的最高端和最低端所包含的預期，既包括公司特定的預期，也包括從宏觀角度。

Yeah, so I think we've been fairly careful about our expectations for NEORIS and FD, who both generally delivered at the level of revenues that we expected in Q4. We have them both with some modest degree of growth as we go from 2024 to 2025. And then as I think we said in the prepared remarks, is that we've got effectively kind of a 0% to 4% revenue growth for organic.

是的，所以我認為我們對 NEORIS 和 FD 的預期是相當謹慎的，這兩家公司在第四季度的收入水平總體上都達到了我們預期。從 2024 年到 2025 年，這兩項指標都將適度成長。正如我們在準備好的評論中所說的那樣，我們的有機收入實際上增長了 0% 到 4%。

And if you introduce the foreign exchange headwinds, you've got a 1% to 5% growth again, using an organic constant currency. Right now, what we're seeing is a somewhat slow start in January, but we're seeing substantial program starts and clients beginning to really get started here in 2025 as we enter February and as we work through the month. If I were to talk about that and Maggie, is this for revenue or is this for the revenue? Revenue?

如果引入外匯逆風，使用有機不變貨幣，您將再次獲得 1% 到 5% 的成長。目前，我們看到 1 月份的起步有些緩慢，但隨著 2 月份的到來以及整個月的工作開展，我們看到大量項目開始啟動，客戶也開始真正開始在 2025 年著手開展工作。如果我和瑪姬談論這個，這是為了收入還是為了收入？收入？

Okay. So what we would have is, clearly, some degree a sequential growth Q1 to Q2. We are seeing substantial sort of project starts in certain areas of our business, and we've got a couple of clients, one particularly in sort of high tech that we expect to show substantial growth in the year, again, at [4%] is clearly some degree of sequential revenue growth in the back half if you were to end up in the middle part of the range, it's kind of a softer sequential, growth.

好的。因此，顯然，我們會看到第一季與第二季之間出現一定程度的連續成長。我們看到在我們業務的某些領域有大量的專案啟動，我們有幾個客戶，其中一個是高科技領域的，我們預計今年將出現大幅增長，再次達到[4%]，這顯然是下半年一定程度的連續收入增長，如果你最終處於這個範圍的中間部分，這是一種較為溫和的連續增長。

So I'm not sure that helps too much. But what we are seeing is very strong sort of program starts in customer demand here in February despite the fact that we had sort of a slower start to January.

所以我不確定這是否有太大幫助。但是，儘管 1 月的開局較為緩慢，但我們看到 2 月客戶需求啟動非常強勁。

Thank you, that's helpful. And then on the margin side, Arkadiy you mentioned some investments that you are clearly going to be making, I'd be particularly interested in some of the commentary around agentic AI and IT since IT services companies don't typically retain a significant amount of the IP that they generate. And then how are you thinking about balancing those investments with perhaps the need to drive some cost synergies in these acquisitions that you just onboarded?

謝謝，這很有幫助。然後在利潤方面，Arkadiy，你提到了你顯然會進行的一些投資，我對一些有關代理 AI 和 IT 的評論特別感興趣，因為 IT 服務公司通常不會保留他們產生的大量智慧財產權。那麼，您如何考慮平衡這些投資與在您剛剛進行的這些收購中推動一些成本協同效應的需要？

Yeah, so let me just do a quick bridge on adjusted IFO and then I'll probably let Ark talk a little bit more about the importance of the investments in GenAI. We've got 2024 at 16.5% adjusted IFO at the midpoint of our guided range for 2025, that would be 15%. We've talked about dilution due to the acquisition of FD and NEORIS, both is then more accretive from an EPS standpoint, but they are dilutive from an adjusted IFO.

是的，讓我先簡單介紹一下調整後的 IFO，然後我可能會讓 Ark 再多談談投資 GenAI 的重要性。我們預計 2024 年的調整後 IFO 將為 16.5%，這是我們對 2025 年指導範圍的中點，也就是 15%。我們討論過由於收購 FD 和 NEORIS 而導致的稀釋，從 EPS 的角度來看，這兩者更具增值性，但從調整後的 IFO 的角度來看，它們具有稀釋性。

And so I think that we've updated our assumption and that's about a 60 basis point dilution. So 16.5% with a 60 basis point, dilutive impact of the acquisitions we're down 15.9% and then 15.9% compares to the 15%, which is the mid-point of the 14.5% to 15.5%. And what we're seeing is some incremental investment in GenAI, which is causing both an increase in SG&A, a little bit of decrease in gross margin.

因此我認為我們已經更新了我們的假設，即稀釋約為 60 個基點。因此，16.5% 加上 60 個基點，收購的稀釋效應下降了 15.9%，而 15.9% 與 15% 相比，15% 是 14.5% 到 15.5% 的中間點。我們看到 GenAI 的一些增量投資，這導致銷售、一般及行政費用增加，同時毛利率略有下降。

And then, Maggie, as we've kind of talked throughout 2024. And I think also, as we've talked about what we expected in 2025, we have been focused on retaining our top technical talent. And so we have had some degree of cost increases or increases in compensation in 2024 in a year when it was very difficult to get rate increases.

然後，瑪吉，正如我們在 2024 年所談論的那樣。而且我認為，正如我們談論 2025 年的期望一樣，我們一直專注於留住頂尖技術人才。因此，在 2024 年利率很難上漲的情況下，我們的成本或薪酬卻出現了一定程度的上漲。

We still expect that this is a more challenging, certainly, in the first half of 2025, so what we are expecting to have is our traditional promo campaign in the first half of 2025 with limited ability to offset those compensation increases with salary increases. We do expect the pricing environment to improve somewhat throughout the year.

我們仍然預計，這在 2025 年上半年肯定會更具挑戰性，因此，我們預計 2025 年上半年將開展傳統的促銷活動，但透過加薪來抵消薪資成長的能力有限。我們確實預計全年定價環境將有所改善。

Clearly, we're focused on utilization, impairments and that type of thing. But really what is happening in the 15.9% -- 15% is some amount of compression due to price sensitivity of the clients. India still runs at better-than-average profitability. Ukraine still runs at high levels of profitability. So we feel good about the business overall, but just the pricing environment still is kind of pressurizing our gross margin and ultimately our adjusted IFO.

顯然，我們關注的是利用率、損害以及諸如此類的事情。但實際上，15.9% - 15% 之間發生的壓縮是由於客戶的價格敏感度而產生的。印度的獲利能力仍然高於平均水準。烏克蘭仍然保持較高的獲利水準。因此，我們對整體業務感到滿意，但定價環境仍然對我們的毛利率以及最終的調整後 IFO 造成壓力。

This type of investment is not something new for us, typically, when there is a visible transition in technology, and we all understand that investment in GenAI, a lot of investment in training, changing the mind our development team, how our new software will be built. And on top of this number of accelerators and some IP as well, it's specifically in this transitional period where market itself, not bringing too many stable solutions to build new type of software.

這種投資對我們來說並不是什麼新鮮事，通常，當技術出現明顯的轉變時，我們都明白對 GenAI 的投資，對培訓的大量投資，改變我們開發團隊的思維，以及如何建立我們的新軟體。除了這些加速器和一些 IP 之外，正是在這個過渡時期，市場本身並沒有帶來太多穩定的解決方案來建立新類型的軟體。

And we did it like when cloud transitioning was happening with mobile transitioning was happening, and it was a significant investment. It was better macro environment back then. But we do believe that we cannot miss these investments right now because as soon as the GenAI, AI, agentic AI starting to drive real transformation we need to be ready to take advantage there.

我們這樣做就像雲端運算轉型和行動轉型一樣，這是一項重大投資。當時的宏觀環境較好。但我們確實相信，我們現在不能錯過這些投資，因為一旦 GenAI、AI、代理 AI 開始推動真正的轉型，我們就需要做好準備來利用它們。

Jamie Friedman, Susquehanna.

薩斯奎哈納的傑米·弗里德曼。

Hi, good morning. I just want to ask one question. In terms of your prepared remarks, Arkadiy, you say and I'm quoting in 2025, clients will balance their cost focus with the need to accelerate their transformational GenAI journeys.

嗨，早安。我只想問一個問題。就您準備好的評論而言，Arkadiy，您說並且我引用的是，在 2025 年，客戶將在成本重點與加速轉型 GenAI 之旅的需求之間取得平衡。

That, to me, sounds like kind of change the business versus run the business narrative. I'm just wondering in the context of your pricing commentary, is the pricing -- do you have any exposure to the run the business opportunities? Is it all really change the business transformational side, whether it's GenAI or otherwise, and is the pricing pressure that you're feeling on the new stuff or on the old stuff or both? Thank you.

對我來說，這聽起來像是改變業務而不是經營業務的敘述。我只是想知道，在您的定價評論中，定價——您是否接觸過任何商業機會？無論是 GenAI 還是其他，這一切是否真的會改變業務轉型方面？謝謝。

So we definitely have during the last several years, exposure to run the business, and we have a number of engagements. And given this, we're starting to do differently than traditionally, it was executed, especially with everything what we see in very different levels of automation driven by GenAI progress.

所以，我們在過去幾年中確實有過經營這項業務的經歷，而且我們也有很多合作。有鑑於此，我們開始採取與傳統不同的做法，特別是我們看到由 GenAI 進展推動的不同自動化程度。

But the pressure -- pricing pressure I mean, still during the last several years, and there is a big kind of inertia to change it. And that's what we quote it will be start happening in 2025 more visibly. But there is a pricing pressure across run and built as well and change as well.

但在過去幾年中，價格壓力仍然存在，而且改變這種狀況的慣性也很大。這就是我們所引用的，它將在 2025 年開始更加明顯地發生。但是在運行、建造和變更過程中也存在定價壓力。

Until again, the change will become much more coming to more traditional levels of demand.

直到再次，變化才會變得更符合更傳統的需求水準。

Okay, thank you for that. I'll drop back in the queue.

好的，謝謝你。我將重新回到隊列中。

Bryan Bergin, TD Cowen.

布萊恩·伯金（Bryan Bergin），TD Cowen 公司。

Hi guys, good morning. Thank you. On demand, I was hoping you could dig in more on how the client spending behavior progressed through each month in 4Q. I'm really trying to dig into commentary on new clients versus existing clients? Can you talk about that? Any interesting bookings data or anything like that as you hit new versus existing?

大家好，早安。謝謝。根據需要，我希望您能夠深入了解第四季度客戶消費行為每個月的進展。我確實想深入了解新客戶與現有客戶的評論？你能談談這個嗎？當您查看新訂單和現有訂單時，有任何有趣的預訂數據或類似數據嗎？

So I don't think I can give you like specific numbers, but definitely, we enter good number of new clients. It's not becoming very large right away. But there are some clients which quickly go into the range of kind of annualized $10 million. So at the same time, there are a lot of new clients, which coming through GenAI kind of proof of concept and then starting to scale.

因此我認為我無法給你具體的數字，但可以肯定的是，我們迎來了相當數量的新客戶。它不會立刻變得很大。但有些客戶的年收入很快就達到 1,000 萬美元左右。因此同時，有許多新客戶通過 GenAI 的概念驗證並開始擴大規模。

But I also would probably mention that for us, right now new clients, sometimes it's our old clients as well because for the time when starting from the beginning of the war, it was lot of the clients. We see in each one of these clients, not fully, but reasonably and for example, Jason mentioned one of the big tech company, so which almost went to 0 now starting to really scale, so which we consider in some way new clients that we approve again and proof not -- only would we be proof, but as they come back to us because they need the quality level and understanding of the technology, which we possess.

但我可能還想說一下，對我們來說，現在有新客戶，有時也有老客戶，因為從戰爭開始的時候，就有很多客戶。我們從每個客戶身上都看到了這一點，雖然不是完全的，但是是合理的，例如 Jason 提到的一家大型科技公司，它的規模幾乎為 0，現在開始真正擴大規模，因此我們在某種程度上認為我們再次批准了新客戶，並且證明——我們不僅會提供證明，而且當他們回到我們身邊時，因為他們需要我們擁有的品質水平和對技術的理解。

Hey Brian, I'm just going to introduce a couple of numbers here. So the guide was [$1.205 billion to $1.215 billion]. NEORIS has performed as expected. We said that we would do about $54 million with NEORIS. FD would have been incremental to that. And I can tell you that, that was about $12 million, again, as we expected.

嘿，布萊恩，我只想在這裡介紹幾個數字。因此，導遊[12.05 億美元至 12.15 億美元]。NEORIS 的表現符合預期。我們說過我們將與 NEORIS 合作投資約 5,400 萬美元。FD 將會對此起到增量作用。我可以告訴你，這個數字約為 1200 萬美元，正如我們預期的那樣。

So at the end of the FD to the guide, it would have been [$1.217 billion to $1.227 billion], and we landed $1.248 billion. And so it clearly was in what we call our stand-alone business where we saw strength. We did see sequential growth in Europe. We did see improvement in financial services, including growth in European financial institutions.

因此，在指南的 FD 結束時，該金額應為 [12.17 億美元到 12.27 億美元]，而我們的實際金額為 12.48 億美元。因此，很明顯，我們在所謂的獨立業務中看到了優勢。我們確實看到歐洲的連續成長。我們確實看到金融服務的改善，包括歐洲金融機構的成長。

And so overall, it was quite a bit stronger quarter from a revenue growth standpoint than we had expected, particularly with good revenues in the month of November and December.

因此總體而言，從營收成長的角度來看，本季的業績比我們預期的要強勁得多，尤其是 11 月和 12 月的營收表現良好。

Okay, very good. I appreciate all that detail. And Jason, actually on the margin too for my follow-up here. So thank you for the bridge. Obviously, a lot of moving parts here with the R&D tax credit, but the acquisition margin profiles, the incremental investment and different geo footprint. But as we kind of just think ahead, as demand ultimately normalizes, do you anticipate a return to profit levels where you've been before or is it too early to make that call?

好的，非常好。我很欣賞這些細節。傑森 (Jason) 實際上也處於我後續跟進的邊緣。所以謝謝你搭建了這座橋樑。顯然，這裡有許多與研發稅收抵免相關的變動因素，但還有收購利潤率概況、增量投資和不同的地理足跡。但是，當我們展望未來時，隨著需求最終正常化，您是否預計利潤將恢復到以前的水平，還是現在做出這個判斷還為時過早？

Yeah, we are definitely expecting to see improved profitability in the second half of the year relative to the first half. And then clearly, we're looking to drive profitability back to what I would call more typical. I know some externally think about 17-plus. I've always sort of thought of us as a 16 to 17 company. And so the focus on getting back to a 16% or better would certainly be a goal for the company. And again, with a slightly different environment, we think that's achievable.

是的，我們確實預計下半年的獲利能力將比上半年有所提升。顯然，我們希望將盈利能力恢復到我所說的更典型的水平。我知道有些人從外部考慮 17 歲以上的人。我一直認為我們是一家擁有 16 到 17 名員工的公司。因此，將盈利率恢復至 16% 或更高無疑是公司的目標。而且，在略微不同的環境下，我們認為這是可以實現的。

David Grossman, Stifel.

大衛·格羅斯曼（David Grossman），Stifel。

Thank you, good morning. I'm wondering maybe if you could speak a little bit of your capacity and your ability to accelerate revenue growth, once demand improves and maybe in part of your response, you could help to mention what the headwind we should expect from the bill rate dynamic from geographic makeshift in '25 and how much that may be impacting the growth outlook?

謝謝，早安。我想知道，一旦需求改善，您是否可以談談您的能力和加速收入增長的能力，也許作為您的部分回應，您是否可以幫助提到我們應該從'25年的地理臨時性票據利率動態中預期到什麼樣的阻力，以及這可能對增長前景有多大影響？

Okay, so in terms of our ability to grow revenue, we have continued to sort of operate with a strong sort of talent capability. So we feel good about our ability to grow in India. We feel good about, obviously, our ability to grow in our traditional Eastern Europe and our ability to grow in the Americas.

好的，就我們增加收入的能力而言，我們一直以強大的人才能力運作。因此，我們對自己在印度的發展能力充滿信心。顯然，我們對自己在傳統東歐和美洲的成長能力感到非常滿意。

We are beginning to see some return, and we are seeing a little bit of growth even in places like Ukraine, obviously, depending on how things resolve themselves there that could open up further demand for that geography. And so I think, David, we feel good about the opportunity to kind of grow revenues across a broad range of geographies.

我們開始看到一些回升，甚至在烏克蘭這樣的地方也看到了一點增長，顯然，這取決於那裡的情況如何解決，這可能會為該地區帶來更多需求。因此，大衛，我認為，我們對在廣泛地區增加收入的機會感到很高興。

I do think you are going to continue to see a little bit of this headwind that we talked about in 2024, whereas you shift into, let's say, Latin America with kind of local-to-level kind of revenues with NEORIS, some further growth in India and growth in places like (inaudible) which is an attractive price point, where you'll continue to see a little bit of compression.

我確實認為，你會繼續看到我們在 2024 年談到的一點逆風，而如果你轉向拉丁美洲，NEORIS 的收入會有所增加，印度會進一步增長，在 (聽不清楚) 這樣具有吸引力的價格點的地方也會增長，在這些地方，你會繼續看到一點點壓縮。

I don't want to say compression, but you'll continue to see some headwinds on the revenue per headcount number as we move through 2025 would be my expectation.

我不想說壓縮，但我預計，到 2025 年，您將繼續看到每位員工的收入數字面臨一些阻力。

Okay. And did you provide just some color onto what you think the mix shift headwind is to revenue growth in '25?

好的。您是否能詳細說明一下您認為混合轉變阻力對 25 年收入成長的影響？

We did not. We talked about last year. This year, I think clearly, it depends. And I think that the answer is that what I would say is we are beginning to see somewhat broader demand. Clearly, you continue to see more growth in India.

我們沒有。我們談論了去年的事。今年，我清楚地認為，這取決於情況。我認為答案是，我們開始看到更廣泛的需求。顯然，你會看到印度繼續實現更快的成長。

But we are beginning to see demand for our more traditional kind of Eastern European geographies as well. So maybe I would say it's somewhat less of an impact than what I talked about in the middle of 2024. But I would say you'll continue to see some impact from that, but I haven't sized it.

但我們也開始看到對較傳統的東歐地區的需求。因此，也許我會說它的影響比我在 2024 年中期談到的要小一些。但我想說，你會繼續看到它帶來一些影響，但我還沒有估算其規模。

Okay. Great. And then, just in terms of the margins, I think you've already given a lot of color there. One thing you didn't mention was, again, any headwinds from diversifying your geographic capacity. I'm just wondering what impact, if any, that's having on the margins currently?

好的。偉大的。然後，僅就利潤而言，我認為您已經給出了很多顏色。您沒有提到的一件事是，再次強調，分散地理容量會帶來任何不利因素。我只是想知道這對目前的邊緣有何影響（如果有的話）？

And just curious whether there's anything unique about your specific ability to price versus wage increases versus your peers because I don't think your peers are seeing quite as much compression as you may be experiencing currently in 2024 and your expectation for '25?

我只是好奇，與您的同行相比，您在定價和工資增長方面的具體能力是否有什麼獨特之處，因為我認為您的同行不會像您目前在 2024 年和您對 25 年的預期那樣經歷如此大的壓力？

Yeah, I think one of the things is that we continue to focus on retaining talent, and our attrition continues to decline throughout 2024. So our voluntary attrition right now is it's definitely in the single digits. As I think Ark could probably talk better than I could, but we do think what has made us successful over time is really the ability to deliver, with very high-quality talent. We do want to make sure that we're able to retain that talent, particularly as we head towards a time where we think there is going to be more transformative programs.

是的，我認為其中一件事是我們繼續專注於留住人才，我們的員工流失率將在 2024 年持續下降。所以我們現在的自願減員人數一定是個位數。我認為 Ark 可能比我能說得更好，但我們確實認為，長期以來讓我們成功的真正原因是我們擁有交付成果的能力以及高素質的人才。我們確實希望確保能夠留住這些人才，特別是當我們面臨一個將會有更多變革性計劃的時代時。

We are beginning to see certain clients come back to us where they've had either failures or fatigue with other providers. We still think that the quality of execution is important. And we do think that there's an opportunity to improve price over some period of time. But I'll let Ark talk about the talent.

我們開始看到某些客戶在與其他供應商合作後遇到問題或感到厭倦而再次回到我們這裡。我們仍然認為執行的品質很重要。我們確實認為在一段時間內有機會提高價格。但我會讓 Ark 來談論這個天賦。

This is what we mentioned in our remarks. So there is kind of double movements. And again, our exposure changes proportionally much higher than many of our peers. And I think we try to make sure that we have the right talent to come back when demand will be normalized. So and yes, there is pressure there.

這就是我們在發言中提到的。因此有一種雙重運動。而且，我們的曝光率變化比例比許多同行高得多。我認為，我們會盡力確保當需求恢復正常時，我們擁有合適的人才回來。是的，那裡有壓力。

When we were relocating people, so we were relocating this to some of them to other countries in Central Europe, some of them to Western and Central Asia, and there is a very different pricing points. We're trying to keep the right balance and create opportunity to grow in each of these locations.

當我們重新安置人員時，我們將其中一些人安置到中歐的其他國家，將一些人安置到西亞和中亞，定價點非常不同。我們正努力保持適當的平衡並在每個地方創造發展機會。

Great, thanks for that. Okay. Just any thoughts on the cadence that you said margins better in the second half than the first half. And any other color you want to provide around that?

太好了，謝謝。好的。您說下半年的利潤率比上半年好，對此您有什麼看法嗎？您還想提供其他顏色嗎？

Yeah, I would just say probably Q1 to Q2, you wouldn't see a substantial improvement in gross margin, but we are taking the classic sort of steps to improve profitability throughout the year. That's all the things we've been talking about, improving the utilization, improvement in impairment and then some amount of scaling. And so we do want to be prepared for us we want to exit 2025 with an ability to drive closer or above that classic profitability target of 16% or above.

是的，我只想說，從第一季到第二季度，你可能不會看到毛利率有大幅提高，但我們正在採取傳統的措施來提高全年的獲利能力。這就是我們一直在談論的事情，提高利用率，改善損害，然後進行一定程度的擴展。因此，我們確實希望做好準備，希望到 2025 年，我們能夠更接近或超過 16% 或以上的經典獲利目標。

Conclusion is previous year where our profitability was increasing.

結論是去年我們的獲利能力正在成長。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Jason Kupferberg, Bank of America.

美國銀行的傑森‧庫普弗伯格（Jason Kupferberg）。

Good morning, guys. Thanks for taking the questions. The first one is just on revenue. I wanted to dive in a little bit just in terms of what's embedded in terms of assumptions on further improvement in discretionary spending. Obviously, you've started to see some pickup. And I'm wondering if the slope of that line, if you will, does that need to improve to get to, say, the midpoint or the high end of the revenue guide what's the underlying assumption there that you've built in?

大家早安。感謝您回答這些問題。第一個只是關於收入。我想深入探討一下關於進一步改善可自由支配支出的假設。顯然，你已經開始看到一些回升。我想知道，如果您願意的話，這條線的斜率是否需要改善才能達到收入指南的中點或高端，您建立的基本假設是什麼？

Ark, why don't you take the high end of the range, and what's our assumption on improving discretionary environment?

阿克，你為什麼不採取範圍的高端，我們對改善自由裁量環境的假設是什麼？

So we -- the gross portfolio, we say that this is what we are sharing like during the previous call, we're seeing some discretionary change, which very different than 12 months ago. And we saw it in Q4, and we see that this is right now in Q1. The challenge here due to pricing environment is still challenging. Again, we mentioned this. And how it's going to change, we need to see.

因此，我們說，總投資組合就像我們在上次電話會議中所分享的那樣，我們看到了一些可自由支配的變化，這與 12 個月前有很大不同。我們在第四季度看到了這一點，我們現在看到這是在第一季。由於定價環境而帶來的挑戰仍然很嚴峻。我們再次提到了這一點。我們需要觀察它將如何變化。

But on the positive side, this is exactly what we expect the high range if this is starting to happen because there are already interesting proofs of businesses advantages when we started to do all the transformations, more scale programs, GenAI related. So that it will drive the others and pricing together with us. So this is more like a high-end assumption.

但從積極的一面來看，如果這一切開始發生，這正是我們預期的高水平，因為當我們開始進行所有的轉型、更多的規模計劃、GenAI 相關計劃時，已經有有趣的商業優勢證據。這樣它就會推動其他人和我們一起定價。所以這更像是高端的假設。

(multiple speakers) We don't count in on huge change, but we count in some more pragmatic views of the companies, which would like to run change programs. And we saw already when the pricing was actually to the point in many programs where others couldn't deliver. So this has already built up at a very good argument to do it different

（多位發言者）我們並不指望會發生巨大的變化，但我們指望一些願意運行變革計劃的公司有更務實的觀點。我們已經看到，許多項目的定價實際上已經到了其他項目無法實現的地步。因此，這已經建立了一個很好的論點來做不同的事情

And just a follow-up on the margin. So I guess, wage inflation is eclipsing pricing this year. I think you said margins down about 90 bps on an organic basis. I was curious just which countries are driving some of that wage inflation you mentioned as you're investing to retain the talent?

這只是邊緣的後續行動。所以我猜測，今年薪資通膨將會超過物價通膨。我認為您說的是利潤率在有機基礎上下降了約 90 個基點。我很好奇，在你們投資留住人才的同時，哪些國家正在推動你們所提到的薪資上漲？

Yeah, I would generally say it's probably more than what I would refer as the off-site countries, again, you -- it would be hard for me to be specific on one country or another. What you're just seeing is, again, a focus on retaining top technical talent in an environment where it continues to be hard, as Ark said, to pass on price increases.

是的，我通常會說它可能比我所說的場外國家還要多，再說一次，我很難具體說明某個國家。正如阿克所說，你所看到的，在物價上漲仍然難以轉嫁的環境下，公司再次將重點放在留住頂尖技術人才上。

So again, I would generally view it as -- we've been fairly careful on the expense of on-site talent, but it really is more in the delivery locations outside of the US and Europe.

所以，我通常認為——我們在現場人才的開支方面相當謹慎，但在美國和歐洲以外的交付地點，這確實更為重要。

And technology Italian specifically, its ability to understand what's the new SDLC as you go to the ability to work in this enabled by GenAI and solutions enabled by GenAI. This is becoming doing very hard (inaudible) we're trying to build a company which is prepared for this demand. That's a retention which we need to like to focus exactly right now.

具體來說，義大利語的技術能夠讓您了解新的 SDLC，並能夠利用 GenAI 和 GenAI 提供的解決方案開展工作。這變得越來越困難（聽不清楚），我們正在努力建立一家為滿足這種需求做好準備的公司。這就是我們現在需要重點關注的保留。

Thank you, Ark.

謝謝你，阿克。

Darrin Peller, Wolfe Research.

達林·佩勒（Darrin Peller），沃爾夫研究公司。

Hey, good morning, guys. When we exclude the couple of acquisition, it does look like your organic headcount growth inflected for the first time in some time. So maybe a bit more color on your hiring plans for the year, the geographies you plan to hire, any maybe specific skill sets?

嘿，大家早安。當我們排除幾項收購時，看起來你們的員工人數有機成長在一段時間內首次出現了變化。那麼，您能否更詳細地介紹您今年的招聘計劃、您計劃招聘的地區以及任何特定的技能組合？

And then just as an attached question to that geopolitically, Obviously, no one knows where things are going from Ukraine, Russia standpoint. But if we were to see any change around the war and any change in terms of abilities for multinational to operate in those areas more, your headcount is still -- I mean, you still have a decent headcount in Belarus and Ukraine.

然後，就地緣政治而言，附加一個問題，顯然，沒有人知道從烏克蘭和俄羅斯的角度來看，事態將如何發展。但是，如果我們看到戰爭方面發生任何變化，以及跨國公司在這些地區開展行動的能力方面發生任何變化，那麼你的員工人數仍然——我的意思是，你在白俄羅斯和烏克蘭仍然有相當數量的員工。

Just remind us the mix of where your headcount is going forward for this year? And if that could impact you guys in any way from a margin or labor optimization standpoint of where you guys already have from head count.

請提醒我們今年你們的員工人數結構如何？如果這可能會從利潤或勞動力優化的角度對你們現有的員工數量產生任何影響。

Okay. So just as a reminder, we had net headcount additions that was organic in Q3 of this -- of 2024 that was somewhat less than 1,000, but still again a decent number of additions. We're about 1,500, as I indicated in Q4, again, on an organic kind of basis, of course, we had the incremental FD and NEORIS. And then for Q1 of 2025, we're also expected to be something approaching 1,000 or probably a little bit below based on kind of the slower start to the January month.

好的。因此，需要提醒的是，我們在 2024 年第三季的淨員工人數有機增加，略少於 1,000 人，但仍然是相當數量的增加。正如我在第四季度指出的那樣，我們的數量約為 1,500，同樣，在有機基礎上，當然，我們有增量 FD 和 NEORIS。對於 2025 年第一季度，我們預計該數字將接近 1,000 或可能略低一些，因為 1 月的開局較為緩慢。

So we are definitely adding headcount. As I think we've talked about, although I'm not going to be specific about which countries is that we are beginning to see kind of demand return to certain geographies in Europe, will clearly still be growing in India, will clearly still be (technical difficulty)

因此我們肯定會增加員工人數。我認為我們已經討論過了，雖然我不會具體說明是哪些國家，但我們開始看到需求回流到歐洲的某些地區，印度的需求顯然仍將增長，（技術難度）

We still -- we have seen a declining headcount in Belarus on a year-over-year basis and a modest decline in headcount in Ukraine on a year-over-year basis. But actually, we did see a little bit of growth late in Q4 in the Ukraine. And in a resolution to the conflict, we think that could make clients far open to putting more product programs, particularly in the Ukraine.

我們仍然看到白俄羅斯的員工數量較去年同期下降，烏克蘭的員工數量較去年同期略有下降。但實際上，我們確實看到烏克蘭在第四季末出現了一點成長。我們認為，解決衝突將使客戶更願意投入更多的產品計劃，特別是在烏克蘭。

Okay. Okay. So I guess we'll have to see how it goes. But I imagine from a margin standpoint, some of those labor forces that you guys have could be helpful from -- just relative to the mix you have in other markets you've got to build out?

好的。好的。所以我想我們必須看看事情進展如何。但我想從利潤的角度來看，你們擁有的一些勞動力可能會有所幫助 - 只是相對於你們在其他市場中建立的組合？

Yeah, that's it's very -- let me just quickly -- that's a very good point. Yes, okay, Ukraine has historically and continues to be one of our most profitable geographies.

是的，這是非常 — — 讓我快速說一下 — — 這是一個非常好的觀點。是的，烏克蘭歷史上一直是我們最賺錢的地區之一。

Okay. Thanks. Just a quick follow-up. I think you've seen somewhere around 400 or 500 basis points improvement or increase in fixed contract percent, if I'm not mistaken. Over the last couple of periods. Maybe just the overall trend. If you could just give us a little bit more color on what you're seeing there in the driving?

好的。謝謝。只是一個快速的跟進。如果我沒記錯的話，我想你已經看到固定合約百分比提高了或增加了大約 400 或 500 個基點。在過去的幾個時期。也許只是整體趨勢。您能否向我們詳細介紹一下您在駕駛過程中看到的情況？

We've got probably three things, okay? One is that we are growing in the Middle East, which tends to be more of a fixed fee environment. And so a little bit of the mix shift there.

我們大概有三件事，好嗎？一是我們正在中東發展，那裡更傾向於固定費用環境。因此混合物在那裡發生了一點轉變。

Okay, we are seeing some more consulting-led programs where there's more of a consultant engagement and then the tail associated with the build. Those oftentimes have kind of a fixed fee component. And we probably have a little bit more time to manage service or fixed monthly fee. And again, that would obviously contribute to the mix of fixed fee business as well.

好的，我們看到更多由諮詢主導的項目，其中更多的是顧問的參與，然後是與建造相關的尾部。這些通常都有某種固定費用部分。我們可能還有更多時間來管理服務或固定月費。而且，這顯然也會促進固定費用業務的組合。

Okay. Very helpful. Thanks, guys.

好的。非常有幫助。謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jonathan Lee, Guggenheim Partners.

古根漢合夥人公司喬納森李 (Jonathan Lee)。

Great, thanks for taking our questions. Can you help us understand what's contemplated across your outlook range from a vertical perspective? Any verticals expected to accelerate versus decelerate throughout the year?

太好了，感謝您回答我們的問題。您能否幫助我們從垂直角度理解您對展望範圍的想像？預計全年哪些垂直產業會加速或減速？

I think it's pretty much in line with what we see during the last year and quarter. So bioscience and at this point, financial services, so good dynamics. And we still also not sure about retail for example, and business automation recovering because it will be big hit by the client, which we lost last year.

我認為這與我們去年和去年一個季度看到的情況基本一致。因此，生物科學和金融服務目前都呈現出良好的動態。而且我們仍然不確定零售業和商業自動化是否會恢復，因為它將受到去年失去客戶的巨大打擊。

And then subcomponents that are emerging, including energy, would probably be areas of growth as well.

而包括能源在內的新興次領域也可能成為成長領域。

In general, it seems like because most of the verticals, we expect to grow

總體而言，我們預計大多數垂直行業都會成長

And then I think the only other point is that we do expect to see an acceleration in tech, and we are certainly seeing an improvement there in Q4 and do expect to see an improvement in.

然後我認為唯一的另一點是，我們確實預計會看到技術加速發展，而且我們肯定會看到第四季度的技術改善，也確實預計會看到技術的改善。

Understood. And recognize that the pricing environment is somewhat challenging, but what in your view would catalyze a potential return to a better pricing environment?

明白了。並認識到定價環境有些挑戰，但您認為什麼會催化潛在的回歸更好的定價環境？

So we're seeing some spots where clients are actually starting to focus more on change. And in these programs, they also understand that pricing should be changing. And we've seen these examples. We just need broader of this. And again, that's a previous answer what we're thinking about our high range to achieve this should be happening better. So let's see what market will be showing right now.

因此，我們看到一些客戶實際上開始更加關注變化。並且在這些項目中，他們也了解到定價應該改變。我們已經看到了這些例子。我們只是需要更廣泛地進行這項工作。再說一次，這是之前的答案，我們正在考慮透過高範圍來實現這一目標，這樣會更好。那麼讓我們看看現在市場會出現什麼情況。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you for joining us today, I think we really satisfied how we finished the year and each year starting from some new unknowns because by that, you feel much with what's going to happen. I think we have a pretty good We, I would say, feeling about how this year started from the client communications point of view. We're also trying to be very pragmatic with our annual guidance. And let's talk in three months. Thank you very much.

感謝大家今天的收看，我想我們對這一年的結束感到非常滿意，並且每一年都是從一些新的未知開始，因為這樣，你就會對即將發生的事情有更深的感受。我認為，從客戶溝通的角度來看，我們對今年的開局有非常好的感覺。我們也試圖讓我們的年度指導變得非常務實。三個月後我們再談。非常感謝。

That concludes our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now all disconnect.

今天的會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。現在你們都可以斷開連結了。