Epam Systems Inc (EPAM) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the second quarter 2024 EPAM Systems Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions) And finally, I would like to advise all participants that this call is being recorded. Thank you.

大家好，歡迎參加 2024 年第二季 EPAM Systems 收益電話會議。所有線路均已靜音以防止任何背景噪音。演講者發言後，將進行問答環節。（操作員指示）最後，我想告知所有參與者，本次通話正在錄音。謝謝。

I'd now like to welcome Mike Rowshandel, Head of Investor Relations to begin the conference. Mike, over to you.

現在，我歡迎投資者關係主管 Mike Rowshandel 開始會議。麥克，交給你了。

Good morning, everyone and thank you for joining us today. As the operator just mentioned, I'm Mike Rowshandel, Head of Investor Relations. By now, you should have received your copy of the earnings release for the company's second quarter 2024 results. If you have not, a copy is available on epam.com in the Investors section. With me on today's call are Arkadiy Dobkin, CEO and President; and Jason Peterson, Chief Financial Officer.

大家早安，感謝大家今天的參與。正如接線員剛才提到的，我是投資者關係主管 Mike Rowshandel。到目前為止，您應該已經收到了該公司 2024 年第二季業績報告的副本。如果您還沒有，可以在 epam.com 的「投資者」部分找到一份副本。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有執行長兼總裁 Arkadiy Dobkin；以及財務長 Jason Peterson。

I would like to remind those listening that some of the comments made on today's call may contain forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties as described in the company's earnings release and SEC filings. Additionally, all references to reported results that are non-GAAP measures have been reconciled to the comparable GAAP measures and are available in our quarterly earnings materials located in the Investors section of our website.

我想提醒聽眾，今天電話會議上的一些評論可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些聲明受到公司收益報告和美國證券交易委員會文件中所述風險和不確定性的影響。此外，所有對非 GAAP 指標的報告結果的引用都已與可比較的 GAAP 指標進行協調，並可在我們網站「投資者」部分的季度收益資料中查閱。

With that said, I will now turn the call over to Ark.

說了這麼多，現在我將把電話轉給 Ark。

Thank you, Mike. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. First, I would like to start off with our second quarter results which came generally in line with our expectations. We believe our performance in the second quarter of 2024 reflects our continued strong execution and adaptability amidst a still complex demand environment.

謝謝你，麥克。大家早安。感謝您今天加入我們。首先，我想先介紹一下我們第二季的業績，該業績基本上符合我們的預期。我們相信，2024 年第二季的業績反映了我們在仍然複雜的需求環境中持續保持強勁的執行力和適應能力。

Let me share some current highlights of our business from Q2 up to today. Our underlying business continues to show signs of stabilization. In the second quarter, we delivered very strong growth in our healthcare and life sciences vertical and strong growth in our emerging verticals, where we also saw some slight sequential improvements in financial services. In some of the verticals, namely business information and media, we continue to work through the impact of the ramp downs from the few large clients we have mentioned before. On the demand environment, we do see broad-based signs of stabilization as well across both EMEA and North America.

讓我分享一下從第二季到今天的一些業務亮點。我們的基礎業務繼續顯示出穩定的跡象。在第二季度，我們的醫療保健和生命科學垂直領域實現了非常強勁的成長，新興垂直領域也實現了強勁成長，金融服務領域也出現了一些環比小幅改善。在一些垂直領域，即商業資訊和媒體，我們繼續努力克服之前提到的幾個大客戶業務下滑所帶來的影響。在需求環境方面，我們確實看到歐洲、中東和非洲地區以及北美地區都出現了廣泛的穩定跡象。

At the same time, clients are still cautious with larger programs and our visibility to a significant increase continues to be constrained by a mix of clients, cost-saving priorities, delays in program starts and clients' own business changes. As a result of this complex environment, we are currently assuming no net improvements in overall demand for the remainder of the year. Jason will provide more details of our updated outlook for 2024. To be clear, notwithstanding the overall demand picture, we are optimistic about certain sectors of our target market and our current portfolio returning to modest growth story in the next 2, 3 quarters as we see it now.

同時，客戶對大型專案仍持謹慎態度，我們對大幅成長的可見性繼續受到客戶組合、節省成本的優先事項、專案啟動延遲以及客戶自身業務變化的限制。由於這種複雜的環境，我們目前假設今年剩餘時間的整體需求不會出現淨改善。傑森將提供有關我們 2024 年更新展望的更多詳細資訊。需要明確的是，儘管整體需求狀況不佳，但我們對目標市場和當前投資組合中的某些領域在未來 2 至 3 個季度恢復溫和成長的情況持樂觀態度。

In overall, while we adjust our offerings and our delivery mix to see the parameters of the current demand environment, we continue to see significant traction in our data and analytics, core engineering and digital engagement offerings, especially through the broad transformation of reach with AI, as well as increasing evidence that our consulting and advanced technology capabilities are driving new top-of-the-funnel opportunities for us. So meanwhile, we remain focused on responsibly managing our business in this part of the cycle, building on our strong fundamentals and ensuring that EPAM continues to be the partners of choice while the demand environment improves.

總體而言，在我們調整我們的產品和交付組合以適應當前需求環境的參數的同時，我們繼續看到我們的數據和分析、核心工程和數位參與產品具有顯著的吸引力，特別是透過人工智慧的廣泛轉型，以及越來越多的證據表明我們的諮詢和先進技術能力正在為我們帶來新的頂級機會。因此，同時，我們將繼續專注於在這一周期階段負責任地管理我們的業務，鞏固我們強勁的基本面，並確保 EPAM 在需求環境改善的同時繼續成為首選合作夥伴。

Turning now to our global delivery strategy. In Europe, our differentiated capabilities continue to create significant opportunities for our clients to leverage the top talent on their most complex business and technical challenges. We believe this traditional EPAM advantage will continue to serve our clients well, especially as they turn from mostly cost-driven considerations back towards driving growth and innovation through the use of advanced technologies for their complex transformation and modernization efforts.

現在來談談我們的全球交付策略。在歐洲，我們差異化的能力繼續為我們的客戶創造重要機會，使其能夠利用頂尖人才解決最複雜的業務和技術挑戰。我們相信，這種傳統的 EPAM 優勢將繼續為我們的客戶提供良好的服務，特別是當他們從主要以成本為導向的考慮轉向透過使用先進技術來實現複雜的轉型和現代化工作並推動成長和創新時。

We are also continuously investing in our more recently established delivery hubs across Western and Central Asia which are emerging talent markets and where we are enabling strong and experienced tech talent to responsibly lead our future growth in the region. India remains a priority and is on track to becoming our largest delivery location by the end of the year.

我們也持續投資於我們最近在西亞和中亞建立的交付中心，這些中心是新興的人才市場，我們正在為強大且經驗豐富的技術人才提供支持，以負責任地領導我們在該地區的未來發展。印度仍然是我們的重點關注地區，並預計在今年年底成為我們最大的交付地點。

We have built scaled centers of excellence in data and analytics, digital marketing, commerce, sales force, SAP and other key horizontal and vertical service lines. Our primary focus is on building a scaled EPAM-grade quality engineering, while blending in with many unique enterprise-level capabilities present in India and not available in most of other EPAM locations around the globe. We believe this approach will differentiate EPAM India from our clients and create strong growth opportunities for our people.

我們在數據和分析、數位行銷、商務、銷售團隊、SAP 和其他關鍵橫向和縱向服務線上建立了規模化的卓越中心。我們的主要重點是建造規模化的 EPAM 級品質工程，同時融合印度現有的許多獨特企業級能力，而全球大多數其他 EPAM 地點都沒有這些能力。我們相信，這種方法將使 EPAM India 從我們的客戶中脫穎而出，並為我們的員工創造強勁的成長機會。

We are also continuing to expand our core engineering capabilities in LatAm. In addition to Mexico and Colombia, we now have a delivery hub in Argentina. We will continue assessing and developing new local talents across the region. In each of these geos, we are investing in our existing and new technical capabilities, including crucial-for-the-future GenAI data, ML and predictive AI and in corresponding IP development. In short, we are building full-service GenAI delivery practices through a network of GenAI X-Labs across major dev centers to enable and scale GenAI-enabled client production activities.

我們也將繼續擴大我們在拉丁美洲的核心工程能力。除了墨西哥和哥倫比亞，我們現在在阿根廷還有一個配送中心。我們將繼續評估和培養該地區新的本地人才。在每個地區，我們都在投資現有和新的技術能力，包括對未來至關重要的 GenAI 數據、ML 和預測 AI 以及相應的 IP 開發。簡而言之，我們正在透過遍布主要開發中心的 GenAI X-Labs 網路建立全方位服務的 GenAI 交付實踐，以支援和擴展支援 GenAI 的客戶生產活動。

In addition, both in India and LatAm, we are evolving into strategies that includes not only differentiated delivery capabilities but also being able to offer compelling in-market presence end solutions, particularly as we seek to serve our global alliance in a more complete and strategic manner which means building locally a much stronger partner ecosystem as well. Finally, in all our locations and specifically in our major client markets, we continue to focus on our client engagement programs and to improve our consulting industry capabilities across our service offerings.

此外，無論是在印度還是拉丁美洲，我們都在製定策略，不僅包括差異化的交付能力，而且還能夠提供引人注目的市場存在終端解決方案，特別是當我們尋求以更完整和戰略性的方式服務我們的全球聯盟時，這意味著在當地建立更強大的合作夥伴生態系統。最後，在我們所有的地點，特別是在我們的主要客戶市場，我們將繼續專注於我們的客戶參與計劃，並透過我們的服務產品提高我們的諮詢行業能力。

Now let's turn in a bit more details on our GenAI approach. For the last decade and despite all challenges during the last several years, we are continuously a recognized leader in advanced technology, digital engineering and complete data transformation programs. This naturally extends to EPAM being regarded to the company who understands the complexities of AI transformation, something we are doing for ourselves, our partners and our clients for some time now.

現在讓我們更詳細地介紹一下 GenAI 方法。在過去的十年中，儘管我們面臨過去幾年的種種挑戰，但我們始終是先進技術、數位工程和完整資料轉換程序領域公認的領導者。這自然延伸到 EPAM 被視為了解 AI 轉型複雜性的公司，這是我們一段時間以來一直在為自己、我們的合作夥伴和客戶所做的事情。

Today, I would like to highlight our up-to-date progress in that area and how EPAM is helping clients pragmatically initiate and then move use cases beyond pilots into production deployments. Our current approach to AI transformation is 3 dimensional.

今天，我想重點介紹我們在該領域的最新進展，以及 EPAM 如何幫助客戶務實地啟動用例並將其從試點轉移到生產部署。我們目前對人工智慧轉型的方法是三維的。

Dimension 1, EPAM internal transformation and GenAI enablement investments. We set an ambition goal for ourselves to upskill and effectively train an absolute majority of the company on the usage of GenAI fundamentals and to do so both responsibly and with the EPAM-level technical depth.

維度一，EPAM 內部轉型和 GenAI 支持投資。我們為自己設定了一個雄心勃勃的目標，即提高公司絕大多數員工的使用 GenAI 基礎知識的技能並進行有效培訓，並且以負責任的態度和 EPAM 級的技術深度來實現這一目標。

A dedicated program was established to execute this. And today, with the help of our educational platforms, internal specialized tools and our global maintenance community, close to 100% of the EPAMers have gone through training and applying AI in their daily work activities.

已經建立了一個專門的程式來執行此操作。今天，在我們的教育平台、內部專業工具和全球維護社群的幫助下，接近 100% 的 EPAM 員工都接受了培訓，並在日常工作活動中應用了人工智慧。

While most of the companies have announced similar programs, we believe that during the last 24 months, our early and highly focused efforts across a broad range of EPAMers allow us to better understand future opportunities and to invest in differentiated IP and accelerators around GenAI-enabled engineering solution.

雖然大多數公司都宣布了類似的計劃，但我們相信，在過去的 24 個月中，我們在廣泛 EPAM 中所做的早期和高度集中的努力使我們能夠更好地了解未來的機會，並圍繞 GenAI 支持的工程解決方案投資於差異化的 IP 和加速器。

Our combination of training, IP and open-source style internal initiatives have now become drivers of scale in our advanced GenAI practitioner communities across all EPAM organizational unit and practices. We assume that well over 10% of EPAMers are now advanced GenAI technical practitioners, while over 1,000 are becoming strong internal AI champions with ability to lead GenAI-enabled business solutions.

我們將培訓、IP 和開源風格的內部舉措相結合，現已成為所有 EPAM 組織部門和實踐中先進的 GenAI 從業者社群的規模驅動力。我們假設超過 10％ 的 EPAMers 現在是高級 GenAI 技術從業者，而超過 1,000 名 EPAMers 正在成為強大的內部 AI 冠軍，有能力領導支持 GenAI 的業務解決方案。

We believe all that has enabled our dimension 2, client transformation opportunities. Our AI client project today has evolved from exploratory pilots and proof-of-concept late last year to now EPAM being selected by clients as a primary AI partner with involvement into hundreds of GenAI-led engagements. We are helping to change the full value chain of SLDC from one side and enabling implementation of real GenAI-driven business use cases from another.

我們相信，所有這些都使我們的第二維度，即客戶轉型機會成為可能。我們今天的 AI 客戶專案已經從去年年底的探索性試點和概念驗證發展到現在的 EPAM，被客戶選為主要 AI 合作夥伴，並參與了數百個由 GenAI 主導的專案。一方面，我們正在幫助改變 SLDC 的整個價值鏈，另一方面，我們正在實現真正的 GenAI 驅動的業務用例。

Let me briefly highlight just a few IP investments. EPAM DIAL is a unified GenAI orchestration platform helping enterprises spin the experimentation and innovation efforts to implement real business use cases and GenAI-enabled solutions by connecting into meaningful workflow and load balancing a set of public and proprietary LLMs and SLMs together with different type of internal, external data sources, AI-native applications and customer dots.

讓我簡單介紹一下一些智慧財產權投資。EPAM DIAL 是一個統一的 GenAI 編排平台，透過連接有意義的工作流程並對一組公共和專有 LLM 和 SLM 以及不同類型的內部、外部資料來源、AI 原生應用程式和客戶點進行負載平衡，幫助企業開展實驗和創新工作，以實現真實的業務用例和支援 GenAI 的解決方案。

EPAM AI, Run is a GenAI-powered delivery framework that accelerates the entire software development life cycle and helps clients recognize ROI of their AI investments by improving time-to-market speed up to 30%. EPAM EliteA, it's a comprehensive collaboration platform for teams that streamline the development, accessibility and management of large language model assets, including prompts, templates and agents.

EPAM AI，Run 是一個由 GenAI 驅動的交付框架，可加速整個軟體開發生命週期，並透過將上市時間提高 30% 來幫助客戶實現其 AI 投資的投資回報率。EPAM EliteA，是一個全面的團隊協作平台，可簡化大型語言模型資產（包括提示、範本和代理）的開發、可存取性和管理。

Now a few specific examples for the clients which operate across completely different user environments. For Unity, the world-leading platform of gaming tools for creators to build and grow real-time games, apps and experiences across multiple platforms, we helped build Unity Muse. From a multi-cloud migration to Microsoft Azure to aid in GenAI capabilities to make game creation faster and easier for 1 million developers by using natural language prompts to generate sprites, textures and animations and also providing chat-based assistance and troubleshooting, as well as the ability to even create behavior trees.

現在針對在完全不同的使用者環境中執行的客戶端給出一些具體範例。對於 Unity，這個全球領先的遊戲工具平台，可供創作者在多個平台上建立和發展即時遊戲、應用程式和體驗，我們幫助建立了 Unity Muse。透過多雲遷移到 Microsoft Azure 來輔助 GenAI 功能，透過使用自然語言提示來產生精靈、紋理和動畫，並提供基於聊天的幫助和故障排除，以及創建行為樹的能力，使 100 萬開發人員能夠更快、更輕鬆地創建遊戲。

For XSOLIS, a leader in health care system purpose-built solutions and industry-leading AI, we helped to develop a new generation AI platform on AWS enhancing, Dragonfly, XSOLIS's flagship product. The platform provides real-time data and predictive analytics to nurses, case managers, physician advisers, utilization management and revenue cycle leaders across 500 hospitals and health systems with more than 500 payers connections.

對於醫療保健系統專用解決方案和業界領先 AI 的領導者 XSOLIS，我們協助其在 AWS 上開發了新一代 AI 平台，以增強 XSOLIS 的旗艦產品 Dragonfly。該平台為 500 家醫院和醫療系統以及 500 多個付款人連接的護士、病例管理員、醫師顧問、利用管理和收入周期負責人提供即時數據和預測分析。

Finally, for the IMF, as a part of modernization of their data platform, we built StatGPT which is an SDMX-driven GenAI application for statistical organizations, allowing their users, economists and statisticians to truly transform, analyze, visualize and interpret statistical data using a natural language interface via proprietary talk-to-you-data framework powered by EPAM DIAL and EPAM Quanthub accelerators. Initial results showed a 50% increase in research productivity and 35% increase in research accuracy.

最後，對於國際貨幣基金組織，作為其數據平台現代化的一部分，我們構建了 StatGPT，這是一款面向統計組織的 SDMX 驅動的 GenAI 應用程序，允許其用戶、經濟學家和統計學家通過由 EPAM DIAL 和 EPAM Quanthub 加速器提供支援的專有對話數據框架，使用自然語言界面真正轉換、分析數據、可視化和解釋統計數據框架，使用自然語言界面真正地轉換、分析統計數據框架。初步結果顯示，研究效率提高了 50%，研究準確率提高了 35%。

And overall, we are seeing a significant rise of GenAI-led engagements across every vertical and a very broad set of use cases. And this is now driving transformation in both front-end customer experiences as well as significant back-office and process-related use cases.

總體而言，我們看到 GenAI 主導的參與度在各個垂直領域和非常廣泛的用例中顯著增加。這正在推動前端客戶體驗以及重要後台和流程相關用例的轉型。

Finally, all that in turn allows us to enable dimension 3 for AI transformation, extended client network, first of all, because we saw that we are very practical in our approach. Our technology and AI transformation program are much larger and more complex today than where we started just a few quarters ago and encompasses both consulting and engineering services as well as a broader range of partnerships.

最後，所有這些反過來又使我們能夠實現人工智慧轉型的第三個維度，即擴展客戶網絡，首先，因為我們發現我們的方法非常實用。與幾個季度前啟動時相比，我們的技術和人工智慧轉型計劃如今規模更大、更複雜，涵蓋諮詢和工程服務以及更廣泛的合作夥伴關係。

With more than 150 strategic partners, we're accelerating modernization, adopting cloud-native architecture and leveraging AI and advanced analytics, particularly when our clients' projects have a high degree of technical and business complexity.

我們擁有超過 150 個策略合作夥伴，正在加速現代化、採用雲端原生架構並利用人工智慧和高階分析技術，特別是當客戶的專案具有高度的技術和業務複雜性時。

We are our partners' partner of choice for making corporate engagement real. In fact, just very recently, we've been named Partner of the Year by several of our cloud data and digital partners, including Databricks' Disruption Partner of the Year, recognized for the industry-leading design and implementation of GenAI-powered conversational interfaces, state-of-the-art machine learning and large language model framework.

我們是合作夥伴的首選合作夥伴，致力於實現真正的企業合作。事實上，就在最近，我們被幾家雲端資料和數位合作夥伴評為年度合作夥伴，其中包括 Databricks 的年度顛覆合作夥伴，該獎項因其業界領先的 GenAI 對話介面設計和實施、最先進的機器學習和大型語言模型框架而獲得認可。

By the way, as elite level partner, we are 1 of only 5 companies with listed in Databricks' center of excellence. Google Cloud Talent Development Partner of the Year, an award recognized for our commitment to training, upskilling and reskilling our team cloud and AI skills. Microsoft Gaming Partner of the Year, recognized for the pushing the boundaries of creativity and technology. Mark in commerce tools, recognized for delivery best-in-class modern commerce experience for our clients.

順便說一句，作為精英級合作夥伴，我們是僅有的 5 家在 Databricks 卓越中心上市的公司之一。年度 Google Cloud 人才發展合作夥伴獎，旨在認可我們致力於培訓、提升和重新培育團隊雲端和 AI 技能。微軟年度遊戲合作夥伴，因突破創造力和技術的界限而獲得認可。在商業工具方面獲得認可，為我們的客戶提供一流的現代商業體驗。

It's easy to assume the next question, what is the revenue impact of these programs? I guess the answer is probably predictable as well. We are still in early days of the AI wave. But at the same time, we are very optimistic about the accelerating pipeline opportunities coming from AI-led transformation and what that can bring downstream for us as a highly trusted and valued partner.

我們很容易想到下一個問題：這些計劃對收入有何影響？我想答案也是可以預料的。我們仍處於人工智慧浪潮的早期階段。但同時，我們對人工智慧主導的轉型帶來的加速通路機會以及作為高度信任和重視的合作夥伴能為我們帶來的下游利益非常樂觀。

We remain focused on expanding our efforts to drive demand, remaining relevant to our clients and what they need and proactively expanding our global market share. We also remain committed to managing our delivery footprint, expanding to cost-efficient locations and generally optimizing our ways of working, so we can continue to provide premium service at attractive value to our global client base.

我們將繼續致力於加強推動需求，保持與客戶的相關性以及他們的需求，並積極擴大我們的全球市場份額。我們也將繼續致力於管理我們的交貨範圍，擴展到具有成本效益的地點，並全面優化我們的工作方式，以便我們能夠繼續為全球客戶群提供具有吸引力價值的優質服務。

I firmly believe EPAM continues to be well positioned to capture rebound in market demand, driven by long-term pressures for legacy modernization with needs for advanced customer-centric solution and by significant interest on how to apply GenAI and GenAI capabilities to build new platform and solutions.

我堅信，EPAM 將繼續處於有利地位，以抓住市場需求的反彈，這得益於對遺留系統現代化的長期壓力、對先進的以客戶為中心的解決方案的需求，以及人們對如何應用 GenAI 和 GenAI 功能構建新平台和解決方案的濃厚興趣。

With this, I would like to pass to Jason to provide additional details on our results in Q2 and our future performance.

在此，我想讓 Jason 提供有關我們第二季業績和未來表現的更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Ark and good morning, everyone. In the second quarter, EPAM generated revenue of $1.147 billion, a year-over-year decrease of 2% on a reported basis or 1.7% in constant currency terms, reflecting a negative foreign exchange impact of 30 basis points. Due to our exit from the Russian market, we no longer generate revenue from Russian clients. The impact of this exit had an approximate 50 basis point negative impact on year-over-year revenue growth. Excluding Russia revenues, year-over-year revenue for reported and constant currency would have decreased by 1.5% and 1.2%, respectively.

謝謝你，Ark，大家早安。第二季度，EPAM 實現營收 11.47 億美元，按報告基礎計算較上年同期下降 2%，按固定匯率計算較上年同期下降 1.7%，反映出 30 個基點的負面外匯影響。由於我們退出俄羅斯市場，我們不再從俄羅斯客戶獲得收入。此次退出對年收入成長產生了約 50 個基點的負面影響。若不計俄羅斯收入，以報告和固定匯率計算的年收入分別下降 1.5% 和 1.2%。

Moving to our vertical performance. Life sciences & healthcare delivered very strong year-over-year growth of 22.4%. Growth in the quarter was driven by clients in both life sciences & healthcare. Consumer goods, retail and travel decreased 7.7% on a year-over-year basis, largely due to the declines in retail, partially offset by solid growth in travel. Financial services decreased 5.6% year-over-year, driven by softness in asset management, banking and payments.

轉向我們的垂直表現。生命科學與醫療保健領域年增強勁，達 22.4%。本季的成長主要得益於生命科學和醫療保健領域的客戶。消費品、零售和旅遊業年減 7.7%，主要由於零售業的下滑，但旅遊業的強勁成長部分抵消了這一影響。受資產管理、銀行和支付業務疲軟的影響，金融服務年減 5.6%。

In the quarter, the vertical delivered slight sequential growth, indicating stabilizing demand. Software and hi-tech contracted 3.7% year-over-year. Business information and media declined 12.6% compared to Q2 2023. Revenue in the quarter was substantially impacted by the previously discussed ramp down of a top 20 client. And finally, our emerging verticals delivered solid year-over-year growth of 10.6%, driven by clients in energy and telecom.

本季度，垂直產業較上季略有成長，顯示需求趨於穩定。軟體和高科技產業較去年同期萎縮3.7%。商業資訊和媒體與 2023 年第二季相比下降了 12.6%。本季的收入受到了先前討論的前 20 名客戶減少的嚴重影響。最後，在能源和電信產業客戶的推動下，我們的新興垂直產業實現了 10.6% 的年成長。

From a geographic perspective, Americas, our largest region, representing 60% of our Q2 revenues, grew 1.8% year-over-year on a reported basis and 2% in constant currency terms. EMEA representing 38% of our Q2 revenues, contracted 6% year-over-year and 5.6% in constant currency. And finally, APAC declined 0.6% year-over-year or 0.2% in constant currency terms and now represents 2% of our revenues. In Q2 revenues from our Top 20 clients declined 3.7% year-over-year, while revenues from clients outside our top 20 declined 1.1%. The relatively stronger performance of this latter group was driven by both new client and inorganic revenue contributions.

從地理角度來看，美洲是我們最大的地區，占我們第二季營收的 60%，以報告基礎計算年增 1.8%，以固定匯率計算成長 2%。歐洲、中東和非洲地區占我們第二季營收的 38%，年減 6%，以固定匯率計算下降 5.6%。最後，亞太地區年減 0.6%，以固定匯率計算下降 0.2%，目前占我們營收的 2%。第二季度，來自我們前 20 名客戶的營收年減 3.7%，來自前 20 名以外客戶的營收下降 1.1%。後者表現相對較強，得益於新客戶和無機收入貢獻。

Moving down the income statement. Our GAAP gross margin for the quarter was 29.3% compared to 30.9% in Q2 of last year. Non-GAAP gross margin for the quarter was 30.8% compared to 32.6% for the same quarter last year. Relative to Q2 2023, gross margin in Q2 2024 was negatively impacted by the strengthening of currencies associated with certain delivery locations as well as the impact of compensation increases, including those resulting from our recent promotion campaign which we were not able to offset through pricing. The negative impact of foreign exchange and compensation increases exceeded the benefit of improved utilization.

降低損益表。本季我們的 GAAP 毛利率為 29.3%，去年第二季為 30.9%。本季非公認會計準則毛利率為 30.8%，去年同期為 32.6%。與 2023 年第二季相比，2024 年第二季的毛利率受到與某些交貨地點相關的貨幣升值以及薪酬增加的影響（包括我們最近的促銷活動導致的薪酬增加的影響，我們無法透過定價來抵銷）。外匯和補償增加的負面影響超過了利用率提高的好處。

GAAP SG&A was 16.9% of revenue compared to 16.7% in Q2 of last year. Non-GAAP SG&A in Q2 2024 came in at 14.3% of revenue compared to 14.8% in the same period last year. SG&A improvement in the quarter is the result of our ongoing focus on managing our cost base and increased efficiency in our spend. GAAP income from operations was $121 million or 10.5% of revenue in the quarter compared to $144 million or 12.3% of revenue in Q2 of last year. Non-GAAP income from operations was $175 million or 15.2% of revenue in the quarter compared to $191 million or 16.3% of revenue in Q2 of last year.

GAAP 銷售、一般及行政費用佔收入的 16.9%，去年第二季為 16.7%。2024 年第二季非 GAAP 銷售、一般及行政費用佔營收的 14.3%，去年同期為 14.8%。本季銷售、一般及行政開支的改善是我們持續注重管理成本基礎和提高支出效率的結果。本季 GAAP 營業收入為 1.21 億美元，佔營收的 10.5%，去年同期為 1.44 億美元，佔營收的 12.3%。本季非公認會計準則營業利潤為 1.75 億美元，佔營收的 15.2%，去年同期為 1.91 億美元，佔營收的 16.3%。

Our GAAP effective tax rate for the quarter came in at 26.3% and our non-GAAP effective tax rate was 24.3%. Diluted earnings per share on a GAAP basis was $1.70. Our non-GAAP diluted EPS was $2.45 compared to $2.64 in Q2 of last year, reflecting a $0.19 decrease year-over-year. EPS was positively impacted by a Serbian government investment incentive received and recognized in the quarter which improved Q2 diluted EPS by $0.06. Although the benefit from this incentive was contemplated in the full year guidance communicated during our Q1 earnings call, at that time, we had expected to receive the incentive and recognize the benefit in Q3. In Q2, there were approximately 58.1 million diluted shares outstanding.

本季我們的 GAAP 有效稅率為 26.3%，非 GAAP 有效稅率為 24.3%。根據 GAAP 計算的每股攤薄收益為 1.70 美元。我們的非 GAAP 稀釋每股收益為 2.45 美元，去年第二季為 2.64 美元，年減 0.19 美元。本季收到並確認的塞爾維亞政府投資激勵措施對每股收益產生了積極影響，導致第二季攤薄每股收益提高了 0.06 美元。儘管我們在第一季財報電話會議上傳達的全年指引中已經考慮到了這項激勵措施帶來的利益，但我們當時預計將在第三季收到該項激勵措施並確認該利益。第二季度，稀釋流通股數約 5,810 萬股。

Turning to our cash flow and balance sheet. Cash flow from operations for Q2 was $57 million compared to $89 million in the same quarter of 2023. Free cash flow was $52 million compared to free cash flow of $82 million in the same quarter last year. At the end of Q2, DSO was 76 days and compares to 73 days for Q1 2024 and 71 days for the same quarter last year. The uptick in DSO reflects an increase in the time some clients are taking in the review and approval of payments, combined with the last few days of the quarter falling on a weekend.

轉向我們的現金流和資產負債表。第二季的經營現金流為 5,700 萬美元，而 2023 年同期為 8,900 萬美元。自由現金流為 5,200 萬美元，而去年同期的自由現金流為 8,200 萬美元。截至第二季末，DSO 為 76 天，而 2024 年第一季為 73 天，去年同期為 71 天。DSO 的上升反映了一些客戶審查和批准付款所花費的時間增加，並且該季度的最後幾天恰逢週末。

Share repurchases in the second quarter were approximately 1.16 million shares for $214 million at an average price of $184.97 per share. In June 2024, EPAM completed the share repurchase program authorized on February 13, 2023. Over a period of 16 months, 2.24 million shares were repurchased at an average share price of $222.90.

第二季股票回購量約 116 萬股，回購金額為 2.14 億美元，平均價格為每股 184.97 美元。2024年6月，EPAM完成了2023年2月13日授權的股票回購計畫。在 16 個月的時間裡，共回購了 224 萬股，平均股價為 222.90 美元。

On August 1, 2024, the Board of Directors approved a new share repurchase program with authorization to purchase up to another $500 million of EPAM common stock over a term of 24 months. We ended the quarter with approximately $1.8 billion in cash and cash equivalents.

2024 年 8 月 1 日，董事會批准了一項新的股票回購計劃，授權在 24 個月內再購買最多 5 億美元的 EPAM 普通股。截至本季末，我們的現金和現金等價物約為 18 億美元。

Moving on to a few operational metrics. We ended Q2 with more than 47,000 consultants, designers, engineers and architects, a decline of 4.8% compared to Q2 2023. Sequentially, production head count remained unchanged as the company reduced head count in certain on-site locations, while continuing to hire in India. Our total head count for the quarter was more than 52,650 employees. Utilization was 77.5% compared to 75.1% in Q2 of last year and 76.8% in Q1 2024. However, on-site utilization remains below targeted levels and the company will continue to take actions to optimize on-site resource levels to improve utilization.

接下來討論一些營運指標。截至第二季度，我們擁有超過 47,000 名顧問、設計師、工程師和建築師，與 2023 年第二季度相比下降了 4.8%。由於公司減少了某些現場地點的員工人數，同時繼續在印度招募員工，因此生產員工人數保持不變。本季我們的員工總數超過 52,650 名。利用率為 77.5%，而去年第二季為 75.1%，2024 年第一季為 76.8%。然而，現場利用率仍低於目標水平，公司將繼續採取行動優化現場資源水平以提高利用率。

Now let's turn to our business outlook. Although client demand has stabilized, we continue to see very little improvement in the near-term demand environment. We are experiencing growth in certain verticals, seeing relatively high levels of new logo activity and working with clients to bring GenAI programs into production. We are also beginning to see some constructive improvement in client discussions with regards to future programs. But decision-making continues to be relatively cautious as some clients continue to have challenges with their own end markets and revenue generated by individual new logo accounts is on average, less than that generated in prior years.

現在讓我們來談談我們的業務展望。儘管客戶需求已經穩定，但我們仍然看到近期需求環境幾乎沒有改善。我們在某些​​垂直領域正經歷成長，看到新標誌活動相對較高的水平，並與客戶合作將 GenAI 程式投入生產。我們也開始看到有關未來計劃的客戶討論中出現了一些建設性的進展。但由於一些客戶在自己的終端市場繼續面臨挑戰，而且單一新標誌帳戶產生的收入平均低於前幾年，因此決策仍然相對謹慎。

Although we believe clients are beginning to more actively engage around new initiatives, our guidance assumes macroeconomic stability with no improvement in the aggregate demand environment for the remainder of the year. We are hopeful that change in the tone of client conversations will result in an improved demand environment in 2025.

儘管我們相信客戶開始更積極參與新舉措，但我們的指導假設宏觀經濟保持穩定，今年剩餘時間總需求環境不會改善。我們希望客戶對話語氣的改變將帶來 2025 年需求環境的改善。

For the remainder of 2024, we are expecting a slight increase in Q3 revenue relative to Q2 driven by greater build-outs in the quarter, substantially offset by higher vacation levels. We are expecting a modest sequential decline in Q4 revenues, driven largely by some of the seasonal factors mentioned previously. We are maintaining our focus on demand generation and we'll continue to prioritize revenue growth for the remainder of 2024. At the same time, we are taking steps to improve cost efficiency and on-site utilization and now expect to operate at a higher level of profitability in the fiscal year.

對於 2024 年的剩餘時間，我們預計第三季的營收將相對第二季略有成長，這得益於本季的擴建量增加，但假期水準的提高在很大程度上抵消了這一成長。我們預計第四季營收將出現小幅環比下降，主要受前面提到的一些季節性因素影響。我們將繼續專注於需求創造，並將繼續優先考慮 2024 年剩餘時間的收入成長。同時，我們正在採取措施提高成本效率和現場利用率，並期望在本財年實現更高的獲利水準。

Finally, our operations in Ukraine continue to run at high levels of utilization, a testament to our team's dedication and focus on maintaining uninterrupted quality of delivery. Our guidance assumes that we will continue to be able to deliver from our Ukraine delivery centers at the productivity levels similar to levels achieved in 2023.

最後，我們在烏克蘭的業務繼續保持高利用率，這證明了我們團隊的奉獻精神和對維持不間斷交付品質的關注。我們的指導假設是，我們將繼續能夠從烏克蘭交付中心以與 2023 年類似的生產力水平進行交付。

Moving to our full year outlook. Revenue is now expected to be in the range of $4.590 to $4.625 billion, a negative growth rate of 1.8% at the midpoint of the range. The impact of foreign exchange rate growth is expected to have a positive impact of approximately 10 basis points. At this time, we expect approximately 1% of revenue contribution from already completed acquisitions.

轉向我們的全年展望。目前預計營收在 45.90 億美元至 46.25 億美元之間，中間值為負成長率 1.8%。預計匯率成長將產生約10個基點的正面影響。目前，我們預計已完成的收購將貢獻約 1% 的收入。

We expect GAAP income operations to now be in the range of 10.5% to 11% and non-GAAP income from operations to now be in the range of 15.5% to 16%. We expect our GAAP effective tax rate to now be 21%. Our non-GAAP effective tax rate which excludes excess tax benefits related to stock-based compensation will continue to be 24%. For earnings per share, we expect the GAAP diluted EPS will now be in the range of $7.18 to $7.38 for the full year; and non-GAAP diluted EPS will now be in the range of $10.20 to $10.40 for the full year. We now expect weighted average share count of 57.9 million fully diluted shares outstanding.

我們預計目前 GAAP 營業利潤率在 10.5% 到 11% 之間，非 GAAP 營業利潤率在 15.5% 到 16% 之間。我們預計我們的 GAAP 有效稅率現在為 21%。我們的非公認會計準則有效稅率（不包括與股票薪資相關的超額稅收優惠）將繼續為 24%。對於每股收益，我們預計全年 GAAP 稀釋每股收益將在 7.18 美元至 7.38 美元之間；全年非 GAAP 稀釋每股收益將在 10.20 美元至 10.40 美元之間。我們現在預計，加權平均流通股數為 5,790 萬股。

Moving to our Q3 2024 outlook. We expect revenue to be in the range of $1.145 billion to $1.155 billion, producing a year-over-year decline of 0.2% at the midpoint of the range. And on a constant currency basis, we expect Q3 revenue to be flat year-over-year.

轉向我們的 2024 年第三季展望。我們預期營收在 11.45 億美元至 11.55 億美元之間，中間值較去年同期下降 0.2%。根據固定匯率計算，我們預計第三季營收將與去年同期持平。

For the third quarter, we expect GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 10% to 11% and non-GAAP income from operations to be in the range of 16% to 17%. We expect our GAAP effective tax rate to be approximately 24% and our non-GAAP effective tax rate to be approximately 24%. For earnings per share, we expect GAAP diluted EPS to be in the range of $1.75 to $1.83 for the quarter and non-GAAP diluted EPS to be in the range of $2.65 to $2.73 for the quarter. We expect a weighted average share count of 57.4 million diluted shares outstanding.

對於第三季度，我們預計 GAAP 營業利潤將在 10% 至 11% 之間，非 GAAP 營業利潤將在 16% 至 17% 之間。我們預計我們的 GAAP 有效稅率約為 24%，非 GAAP 有效稅率約為 24%。對於每股收益，我們預計本季 GAAP 稀釋每股收益在 1.75 美元至 1.83 美元之間，非 GAAP 稀釋每股收益在 2.65 美元至 2.73 美元之間。我們預計加權平均流通股數為 5,740 萬股。

Finally, a few key assumptions that support our GAAP to non-GAAP measurements for the remainder of the year. Stock-based compensation expense is expected to be approximately $45 million for each of the next 2 quarters.

最後，有幾個關鍵假設支持我們在今年剩餘時間內從 GAAP 到非 GAAP 的衡量標準。預計未來兩季的股票薪酬費用分別為 4,500 萬美元和 500 萬美元。

Amortization of intangibles is expected to be approximately $6 million for each of the remaining quarters. The impact of foreign exchange is expected to be a $1 million loss for each of the remaining quarters. Tax effective non-GAAP adjustments is expected to be around $13 million for each of the remaining quarters. We expect excess tax benefits to be around $1 million for each of the remaining quarters. Severance driven by our cost optimization program is expected to be around $10 million for each of the remaining quarters.

預計剩餘每季的無形資產攤銷約 600 萬美元。預計外匯的影響將導致剩餘每季損失 100 萬美元。預計剩餘每季的非 GAAP 稅收有效調整將達到約 1,300 萬美元。我們預計剩餘每季的超額稅收優惠將達到 100 萬美元左右。我們的成本優化計畫所帶來的遣散費預計在剩餘的每季約為 1,000 萬美元。

Finally, one more assumption outside of our GAAP to non-GAAP items. With our significant cash position, we are generating a healthy level of interest income and are now expecting interest and other income to be approximately $13 million for each of the remaining quarters. While we work our way through this cycle of lower demand, we will continue to run EPAM efficiently, positioning the company to capitalize on a more normalized demand environment.

最後，我們對 GAAP 以外的非 GAAP 項目還有一個假設。憑藉我們充足的現金狀況，我們正在產生健康的利息收入水平，目前預計剩餘每季的利息和其他收入約為 1,300 萬美元。在我們努力度過這項需求較低週期的同時，我們將繼續有效率地經營 EPAM，使公司能夠利用更正常化的需求環境。

Lastly, my continued thanks to all our employees for their dedication and focus on serving our clients and driving results for EPAM.

最後，我要繼續感謝我們所有的員工，感謝他們為客戶服務的奉獻和專注，以及為 EPAM 帶來成果。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Maggie Nolan of William Blair.

威廉布萊爾的瑪吉諾蘭。

I wanted to dig into the utilization and the dynamics between on-site and offshore. So first of all, what percentage of the workforce is considered to be on site this quarter? And then is offshore utilization running higher than what you view as sustainable to offset some of that weakness on on-site because you're not too far off from your historical range here?

我想深入研究現場和海上之間的利用率和動態。那麼首先，本季有多少比例的勞動力在現場？那麼，海上利用率是否高於您認為可持續的水平，以抵消現場的一些弱點，因為您距離歷史範圍不太遠？

Yes. The -- I think we feel that the offshore utilization is actually quite healthy. And I'm struggling right now to remember exactly what our on-site percentage is but from a total head count -- but from a utilization standpoint, it's definitely lower than we would traditionally run at. And it continues to be the area that I think we find ourselves somewhat challenged in. And so it probably is also contributing somewhat to revenue growth for the remainder of the year, where we continue to see more demand for offshore and incrementally more demand for India and again, continue to run at somewhat lower levels of utilization on site. And that's something that we are working to address, pull-through demand generation and also through taking some actions, as I referred to in my prepared remarks.

是的。我認為，我們認為海上利用率實際上相當健康。我現在很難記清楚我們的現場百分比到底是多少，但從總人數來看——從利用率的角度來看，它肯定低於我們傳統的運行水平。我認為，我們仍然在這個領域面臨一些挑戰。因此，它可能也會對今年剩餘時間的收入成長做出一定貢獻，我們將繼續看到對海上需求的增加以及對印度需求的逐步增加，而且現場利用率將繼續保持在較低水平。正如我在準備好的演講中提到的那樣，我們正在努力解決這個問題，透過創造需求並採取一些行動。

Got it. And then somewhat related, just building on that, the improvement in the margin outlook, is that primarily related to those actions that you want to take on utilization? Are there other levers you're pulling? And have you already seen some progress here in the third quarter to fuel that optimism in the increased number that you gave?

知道了。然後有點相關的是，僅在此基礎上，利潤率前景的改善，這主要與您想要採取的利用率行動有關嗎？您還在採取其他措施嗎？您是否已經看到第三季度取得了一些進展，從而增強了您所給出的數字增加的樂觀情緒？

No, absolutely. And so the focus has been on sort of cost optimization after we reset our expectations for revenue growth. So we've been more efficient in corporate functions and SG&A. We've been working on utilization. And so yes, the actions that we intended to take are underway and it is beginning to show up probably even in a little bit of the benefit that we saw in profitability in Q2.

不，絕對不是。因此，在我們重新設定營收成長預期後，重點就放在了成本優化上。因此，我們的公司職能及銷售、一般及行政開支（SG&A）效率較高。我們一直致力於利用率。是的，我們打算採取的行動正在進行中，而且可能已經開始顯現，甚至可能在第二季的獲利能力中看到一點好處。

Bryan Bergin from TD Cowen.

TD Cowen 的 Bryan Bergin。

I hear you on the overall complex demand environment. I wanted to dig in on the demand progression in the top accounts. that you saw over the last 3 months as well as just how you see the top clients, particularly the top 5 to 10 performing in the second half and as you exit this year.

我聽說了整體複雜的需求環境。我想深入了解頂級帳戶的需求進度。您在過去 3 個月中看到的以及您如何看待頂級客戶，特別是在今年下半年和年底表現最好的 5 到 10 個客戶。

So I think despite of the opticality of the clients for the top 5, there is only one client which is declining and this is basically a continuation of the trend which we saw before. And even this client decline, kind of getting less and getting to a more stable environment right now. So but in general, it's exactly like we commented before. It is pretty stable.

因此，我認為，儘管排名前五的客戶各有不同，但只有一個客戶在下降，這基本上是我們之前看到的趨勢的延續。即使客戶數量減少，目前的環境也變得更加穩定。但總的來說，它就像我們之前評論的那樣。它非常穩定。

Yes. And that top 5 client, this is the one that we talked about in the past which is a European business information and media client.

是的。那前五名客戶就是我們過去談到的歐洲商業資訊和媒體客戶。

Okay. All right. That's helpful. And then just on the GenAI front, can you dig in a little bit more on the progression of GenAI-related work as far as just maybe any rough quantification on the size of some of these programs and the mix of really the POCs that are moving into production?

好的。好的。這很有幫助。然後就在 GenAI 方面，您能否更深入地了解 GenAI 相關工作的進展，例如對其中一些項目的規模以及真正投入生產的 POC 組合進行粗略量化？

So it is pretty challenging, especially when we're thinking that -- we're trying to understand how some of our talents quantifying this. And it's very much all around the well. So that's why for our internal understanding and integration, we have kind of fewer GenAI-related projects and some influence revenue and so on and so on. So from this pure type of stuff, a lot of small POC now approaching high hundreds of thousand or low millions of dollars. This is already starting to happen. So -- and this is dozens in our case. And again, it's very difficult to compare apple to apple when we're hitting some numbers for competition.

所以這非常具有挑戰性，特別是當我們思考這一點時——我們試圖了解我們的一些人才如何量化這一點。它幾乎遍布整個井。所以這就是為什麼對於我們的內部理解和整合而言，我們有較少的與 GenAI 相關的項目，並且會影響收入等等。因此，從這種純粹類型的東西來看，許多小型 POC 的資金現在已經接近數十萬或數百萬美元。這已經開始發生了。所以 — — 在我們的例子中，這是幾十個。再說一次，當我們達到一些競爭數字時，很難進行同類比較。

At the same time, from influence point of view, we started to go already to tens and upwards of hundreds of millions as well. So very different even from 6, 9 months ago.

同時，從影響力來看，我們也已經開始走向數千萬甚至數億的規模了。與 6 至 9 個月前相比有很大不同。

Okay. Understood.

好的。明白了。

Still, if you think about it, it's a very small portion of our revenue. And I think general trend that -- when during the POC, there is a confirmation, the potential ROI and excitement, then it's coming back to the technical debt which we were talking about during the last quarter. And companies realize that to actually get the benefit of this, it requires really investments and go to some data modernization program which is much needed and require much more depth. And that's actually one of the showstoppers to real progression, because they are not ready yet.

不過，如果你仔細想想，這只是我們收入的一小部分。我認為總體趨勢是 - 在 POC 期間，得到確認，潛在的投資回報率和興奮感，然後它又回到了上個季度我們談論的技術債務。公司意識到要真正獲得好處，需要真正的投資，並參與一些非常必要且需要更深入的數據現代化計劃。這實際上是真正進步的障礙之一，因為他們還沒有準備好。

Darrin Peller from Wolfe Research.

來自 Wolfe Research 的 Darrin Peller。

Could we just touch for a minute on the sequential math? Looking at the guide, it looks like the dollars of revenue expected is pretty much exactly flat or almost exactly flat going from second through the end of the year. And I know you're trying not to embed any type of upside or inflection. Just -- I know there's also some seasonality typically in Q4, although things like budget flows have been tougher lately. But maybe just touch on that for a minute in terms of your expectations on a per quarter basis.

我們能花一點時間討論一下序列數學嗎？從指南來看，預期收入金額似乎從第二季到年底基本上持平或幾乎持平。並且我知道您試圖不嵌入任何類型的優勢或變化。只是——我知道第四季通常也存在一些季節性因素，儘管最近預算流動等方面的情況變得更加困難。但也許您只是稍微談談您對每個季度的期望。

And then really just go back to the overall demand environment, where you're seeing clients spend what you think you can do that maybe must -- a little bit less related to the macro and more idiosyncratic as we've been seeing more and more IT services companies trying to really address current needs as much as possible. So anything more you can just comment on where the demand is today, especially if the macro holds at a slower level for a while, what you think you're doing that's resonating the most.

然後回到整體需求環境，你會看到客戶花費你認為必須花費的金額，這與宏觀關係不太大，而且更具特殊性，因為我們看到越來越多的 IT 服務公司試圖盡可能地滿足當前的需求。因此，您也可以進一步評論一下目前的需求情況，特別是如果宏觀經濟在一段時間內保持在較慢的水平，您認為您正在做的事情最能引起共鳴。

Yes. So I'll just start with the more technical, I guess and I'll leave Ark to answer maybe the harder questions. And so from a Q2 to Q3, you'd have higher vacation and more build days. And so you get a -- you should see a somewhat modest improvement but you should see some improvement in revenues just based on what you can call kind of technical or seasonal factors. And then in Q4, it will depend on what type of vacation levels we see. But usually, you would see even a little bit higher levels of vacation in Q4, lower build days. And then, of course, the question is going to be what type of furlough activity we see.

是的。因此我想我會從技術性較強的問題開始，然後讓 Ark 來回答可能比較難的問題。因此，從第二季度到第三季度，您將擁有更多的假期和更多的施工天數。因此，你應該會看到略有改善，但你應該會看到收入有所改善，這只是基於所謂的技術或季節性因素。然後在第四季度，這將取決於我們看到的假期水平類型。但通常情況下，你會看到第四季的休假水平會更高一些，而建築天數會更少。然後，當然，問題是我們會看到什麼類型的休假活動。

So generally, there is a somewhat significant impact just due to seasonality. And so that's kind of what we're modeling at this time, again, is that generally, a very modest improvement up from Q2 to Q3 based on seasonal factors. And then some degree, a decline unless, as you said, we see some type of budget flush or again, we're able to influence the level of vacations that employees take.

因此一般來說，季節性會產生相當顯著的影響。所以這就是我們此時所建模的，一般來說，基於季節性因素，從第二季到第三季會有非常溫和的改善。然後在某種程度上，除非如你所說，我們看到某種類型的預算充裕，或者我們能夠影響員工的休假水平，否則就會出現下降。

Ark, do you want to talk a little bit about overall demand or where we're seeing.

阿克，你想談談整體需求或我們看到的情況嗎？

I think our equipment, very much in line with the last quarter. So we -- as we mentioned last time that we don't -- we don't think we can project the market in current situation. So I think it's very much similar. And if quarter ago, our projection range was much broader than today, in just saying that our expectation of good news, we are not confirmed.

我認為我們的設備與上一季非常一致。因此，正如我們上次提到的那樣，我們認為我們無法預測當前情況下的市場。所以我認為它們非常相似。如果說一個季度前我們的預測範圍比今天要廣泛得多，那麼我們對好消息的預期尚未得到證實。

And our expectation for the great news actually didn't happen as well. So we're narrowing and it's a reflection of the type of projects in play right now. There is no big modernization talk. There are conversations about it but it's not turning into reality. There are a lot of noise around GenAI which is not converting to big revenue as well. But around the business, keeping the status quo on production systems, that's what we're focusing, improving.

而我們期待的好消息其實也沒有發生。因此我們正在縮小範圍，這反映了目前正在進行的專案類型。不存在什麼關於現代化的宏大言論。雖然有人討論過這個問題，但是它並沒有變成現實。關於 GenAI 存在著許多爭議，而且它也無法轉化為大筆收入。但圍繞著業務，維持生產系統的現狀，這就是我們所關注和改進的。

And again, looking for kind of one-off modernization play where we can really bring the value but it's very competitive and again, not necessarily decided for the client right now. I don't know if I'm giving you answer that you want but --

再次，尋找一次性的現代化改造，我們真的可以帶來價值，但競爭非常激烈，而且現在不一定由客戶決定。我不知道我是否給了你想要的答案，但是--

And I would just add that we're working to change the trajectory in Europe and we are beginning to see some better conversations and opportunities kind of appear there. Again, so that's an area where we're looking to sort of, let's say, change the picture.

我想補充一點，我們正在努力改變歐洲的發展軌跡，我們開始看到那裡出現了一些更好的對話和機會。再次強調，這是我們想要改變局面的領域。

The other thing I think you see in our fixed fee which continues to go up, we're continuing to sort of explore and work with clients to have more of a committed kind of model around what we'll deliver for a fixed fee or a fixed monthly fee and that's a reflection of what we're trying to do to respond to customer needs and win more business.

另一件事我想您會看到我們的固定費用不斷上漲，我們正在繼續探索並與客戶合作，以建立一種更加承諾的模式，即我們將以固定費用或固定月費提供哪些服務，這反映了我們為響應客戶需求和贏得更多業務所做的努力。

Okay. Actually one quick one just on hiring, is just on -- I mean do you anticipate -- if utilization stays in these ranges, do you anticipate needing to hire more? Or I mean, maybe AI or other types of efficiencies can help maintain?

好的。實際上，關於招聘，我只想問一個問題——我的意思是，您是否預計——如果利用率保持在這些範圍內，您是否預計需要雇用更多人？或者我的意思是，也許人工智慧或其他類型的效率可以幫助維持？

There's certainly some programs where we're clearly working to include AI productivity improvements. But no, we would continue to hire and I think you'll continue to see hiring in the types of geographies we've been talking about which is more kind of offshore certainly with someone in Latin America.

我們確實正在努力在一些專案中提高人工智慧的生產效率。但不，我們會繼續招聘，我認為你會繼續看到我們一直在談論的那些類型的地區進行招聘，這些地區更多的是離岸招聘，肯定會有拉丁美洲的人。

Jim Schneider from Goldman Sachs.

高盛的吉姆·施奈德。

First of all, on the discretionary demand environment, it's not surprising to hear of the constraints given what the environment is out there. But what are your clients telling you about the conditions under which they would start to release more spending or more aggressive with new projects in 2025? Is that tied to macro? Is that tied to more certainty around their AI strategy or other priorities they have internally in terms of IT spending?

首先，就可自由支配的需求環境而言，考慮到現有的環境，聽到這些限制並不奇怪。但是，您的客戶告訴您，在什麼條件下他們會在 2025 年開始增加支出或更積極地進行新專案？這與巨集有關嗎？這是否與他們的 AI 策略或 IT 支出的其他內部優先事項更加確定有關？

So we do believe that majority of the kind of decision making, it's environment related right now. Because as soon as kind of situation would be a little bit better, I think investment in general data infrastructure and cloud infrastructure which was delayed will be triggered, because everybody understands the impact of GenAI. And without fixing first this, it would be very difficult know for -- so I think market is holding right now.

因此我們確實相信，目前大多數決策都與環境有關。因為一旦情況稍微好轉，我認為被推遲的通用資料基礎設施和雲端基礎設施的投資就會被觸發，因為每個人都了解 GenAI 的影響。如果不先解決這個問題，就很難知道——所以我認為市場現在處於維持狀態。

And then maybe just in terms of the margins, obviously you delivered good growth and operating margin leverage in the quarter. That was good to see. Was that mostly driven by the mix of head count shifting to India? Or are there other factors there besides the SG&A line? And then, I guess, going into '25, as we exit this year, what kind of further gross margin leverage do you expect to deliver or is this sustainable from here?

然後也許僅從利潤率來看，顯然你們在本季實現了良好的成長和營業利潤率槓桿。很高興看到這一點。這是否主要是由於員工人數轉移到印度所致？或除了銷售、一般及行政開支之外，還有其他因素嗎？然後，我想，進入25年，當我們今年退出時，您預計會實現什麼樣的進一步毛利率槓桿，或者這種槓桿是否可以持續？

Yes. So we're continuing to work on utilization. And the improvement in Q2 was probably a combination of efficiency with SG&A and continued to focus on improving utilization. I think what we've talked about over the last couple of quarters is that we continue to have an opportunity because we've got a fairly heavy pyramid still including in India.

是的。因此我們將繼續致力於利用率。第二季的改善可能是效率與銷售、一般及行政開支的結合，並持續致力於提高利用率。我認為我們在過去幾季中談論的是，我們仍然有機會，因為我們仍然擁有相當厚重的金字塔，包括在印度。

And so what we need to do is make sure that we're introducing more juniors into the mix which generally has a broader sort of pyramid, it improves profitability overall, also can allow you to be a little bit sharper with pricing. But the Q2 improvement in profitability was not driven by a shift in India. Again, it was more kind of these operational kind of efficiency factors that we're continuing to work on throughout the remainder of the year.

因此，我們需要做的是確保引入更多的初級投資者，這樣通常可以形成更廣泛的金字塔結構，從而提高整體盈利能力，也可以讓你在定價方面更加敏銳。但第二季獲利能力的改善並非由印度的轉變所推動。再說一遍，我們將在今年剩餘時間內繼續致力於提高這些營運效率因素。

And in terms of the forward improvement there?

那麼，未來會有哪些改進呢？

Forward improvement, again, is the work that we're doing on utilization improvement, reducing the bench and ongoing efficiency in SG&A. So again, it's just a focus on certain areas of our operations that we think we can see some further sort of reduction in spend certainly as a percentage of revenue.

再次強調，前向改善是我們在利用率改善、減少工作量和持續提高銷售、一般和行政開支 (SG&A) 效率方面所做的工作。所以，再說一遍，這只是我們營運的某些領域的重點，我們認為我們可以看到支出佔收入的百分比進一步減少。

Jonathan Lee from Guggenheim Securities.

古根漢證券的喬納森李 (Jonathan Lee)。

I want to get a better sense of how India is progressing. Can you help unpack the type of volumes you're seeing there and whether expanded presence has had any sort of influence on new types of demand or types of contract structures being utilized, especially if you think about the revenue and margin dynamics that are contemplating the outlook?

我想更了解印度正在取得怎樣的進展。您能否幫助解釋一下您所看到的數量類型，以及擴大業務是否對新類型的需求或正在使用的合約結構類型產生了任何影響，特別是如果您考慮正在考慮前景的收入和利潤動態？

Yes. So I'll let Ark talk a little bit more about the type of work in progress. What I would say is that from the last time we spoke with you, Jonathan, is that India is likely to make a somewhat -- a very slightly greater percentage of head count by the end of the year. So last time, Ark and I were talking about something approaching 20%. We now think that India will be slightly above 20% by the end of the year. And what you are seeing is a modest pressure on average bill rates as a result. And that probably is also sort of shaping how we look at the second half.

是的。因此，我將讓 Ark 再多談談正在進行的工作類型。喬納森，我想說的是，從我們上次與您交談時的情況來看，到今年年底，印度的移民人數比例可能會略有增加。上次，Ark 和我談論的是接近 20% 的數字。我們現在認為，到今年年底印度的比例將略高於 20%。因此，您會看到平均帳單利率面臨適度的壓力。這或許也某程度上影響了我們對下半年的看法。

So it's not super significant. But I think last time -- sometimes we would utter the word, 19.5% and right now, we think that India is going to account for just over 20% of our head count by the end of the year. So we continue to see a modest gradual shift there, while at the same time, we are seeing improved utilization in our other areas of operation, in Europe and Western and Central Asia. So it's not as if all the demand is shifting to India but we are seeing ongoing kind of increment in India.

所以這並不是特別重要。但我認為上次——有時我們會說出 19.5% 這個詞，而現在，我們認為到今年年底印度將占我們員工總數的 20% 多一點。因此，我們繼續看到那裡出現溫和的逐步轉變，同時，我們看到我們在歐洲、西亞和中亞等其他營運地區的利用率有所提高。因此，並不是所有的需求都轉移到了印度，但我們看到印度的需求正在持續成長。

Ark do you want to talk about type of work or --

你想談談工作類型嗎？--

Type of work, like I think that's what we shared already today. We consider like this into India, there is a pricing pressure. So this is definitely a very objective kind of component. At the same time, the type of work which we do, not changing much from location to location. And as we said before, EPAM has a kind of reputation for more complex quality engineering solutions. And as we said, we're building actually in the very strong data renewing occupancy. We're bringing like everything that we do around GenAI, productivity improvement for SLDC. We built a digital engagement practice. So it's very much in line with the broad EPAM and the type of work is, again, very, very similar.

工作類型，我想這就是我們今天已經分享的內容。我們認為在印度存在這樣的定價壓力。所以這絕對是一種非常客觀的組件。同時，我們所做的工作類型在不同地點不會有太大的變化。正如我們之前所說，EPAM 因提供更複雜的品質工程解決方案而聞名。正如我們所說，我們實際上正在建立非常強大的資料更新佔用率。我們圍繞 GenAI 所做的一切，都是為了提高 SLDC 的生產力。我們建立了數位化參與實踐。因此，它與廣義的 EPAM 非常一致，而且工作類型也非常非常相似。

So from overall perspective, it's also creating different profile of our breadth in India. Because when we started to move work there, we have to bring much more proportionally experienced teams there. And only after this, we will be able to scale to the different pyramid. That's what's happening for us in multi-nesting, some movement of the work, rebuilding the pyramid and still investing in -- wanting to be exactly in line with client expectations because they expect from EPAM independently from location, similar type of service.

因此從整體角度來看，這也為我們在印度的廣度創造了不同的形象。因為當我們開始將工作轉移到那裡時，我們必須將更具經驗的團隊帶到那裡。只有這樣，我們才能夠擴展到不同的金字塔。這就是我們在多重嵌套中發生的事情，一些工作的移動，重建金字塔，並且仍在投資——希望完全符合客戶的期望，因為他們希望 EPAM 能夠提供獨立於地點的類似類型的服務。

Thanks for the detail there. Can you unpack your comments on the lack of improvement contemplated in the outlook? I want to understand what that means for deals that have been signed but perhaps not yet launched or ramped. How much go-get or pipeline conversion is still required to achieve your outlook at both the high end and the low end?

感謝您提供的詳細資訊。您能否解釋一下對於前景缺乏改善的評論？我想了解這對於已經簽署但尚未啟動或推進的交易意味著什麼。還需要多少努力或管道轉換才能實現您在高端和低端的前景？

Yes. And the last time we guided, Jonathan, we did talk about still expecting a very modest improvement in demand and what we're now saying is we don't see that improvement in demand. And so we try to be quite prudent with our guide. Clearly within this quarter and clearly, having set the full year guide which obviously is how we're thinking about Q4, it does very much -- particularly if you take the full guide of $4.590 billion to $4.625 billion, it does encompass even things like some potential reductions in demand due to cost reduction efforts at clients or that type of thing. And so I think we feel pretty confident that, again, we have a little bit of sort of downside as clients continue to be sort of cost sensitive.

是的。喬納森，我們上次指引時確實談到，我們仍然預期需求將出現溫和改善，而我們現在說的是，我們沒有看到需求出現改善。因此，我們盡力謹慎對待我們的導遊。顯然，在本季度內，而且很明顯，我們已經制定了全年指南，這顯然是我們對第四季度的看法，它確實發揮了很大作用 - 特別是如果你將 45.9 億美元到 46.25 億美元的完整指南作為參考，它甚至包括由於客戶的成本削減努力或諸如此類的事情而導致的一些潛在需求減少。因此，我認為我們非常有信心，由於客戶仍然對成本很敏感，所以我們會面臨一些不利因素。

And then the upside probably would be a little bit more in the lighter furloughs, maybe just a little bit of kind of budget openness in the remainder of the year. And again, our ability to probably influence the level of vacation taken by employees to again, give us a little bit more capacity in Q4.

那麼好處可能就在於，休假時間減少一點，或許今年剩餘時間預算會稍微開放一點。而且，我們可能能夠影響員工的休假水平，從而讓我們在第四季度有更多一點的產能。

Ramsey El-Assal from Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的拉姆齊·埃爾阿薩爾（Ramsey El-Assal）。

It looks like your percentage of fixed-price contracts has been trending up and it's a little higher now than it's been at least going back quite a ways in our model. What is driving that mix shift sort of away from time and materials work towards fixed price work? Is it geographic? Is it GenAI related? And I guess, are there any implications for margins when it comes to fixed price versus time and materials work?

看起來您的固定價格合約百分比一直呈上升趨勢，並且現在比我們模型中的至少過去相當長一段時間的水平要高一些。是什麼原因促使這種混合工作從時間和材料工作轉向固定價格工作？它是地理位置的嗎？它與 GenAI 有關嗎？我想，當涉及到固定價格與時間和材料工作時，對利潤率有什麼影響嗎？

Yes. So you're correct that it has been trending up and probably will continue to trend up somewhat. And so it's a mix of what would we call percentage of completion and what is sort of a fixed monthly fee. And so it probably does reflect the fact that we're beginning to try to address clients' needs in a way that's a little bit on traditional prepay where we have traditionally been kind of more bleeding-edge complex projects where it was difficult to estimate. We clearly have that type of work but we are trying to be able to sit with our clients and say we can do this for a fixed amount of money or fixed amount of money on a monthly basis.

是的。因此您說得對，它一直呈上升趨勢，而且可能會繼續呈上升趨勢。所以它是我們所謂的完成百分比和固定月費的混合。因此，這可能確實反映了這樣一個事實，即我們開始嘗試以有點傳統預付費的方式來滿足客戶的需求，而我們傳統上一直致力於更前沿的複雜項目，這些項目很難估計。我們顯然有這類工作，但我們試圖與客戶坐下來，告訴他們我們可以以固定的金額或每月固定的金額來完成這項工作。

The other thing I think you are probably seeing is some opportunity with GenAI to introduce not only traditional sort of productivity improvement or productivity improvement from GenAI and commit to a series of savings over a period of time.

我認為您可能看到的另一件事是，GenAI 不僅可以引入傳統類型的生產力改進或來自 GenAI 的生產力改進，還可以致力於在一段時間內實現一系列的節省。

And so you are seeing us also enter into engagements with clients. It may be more a multi-quarter or in some cases, even multiyear that do reflect what we believe is a productivity improvement that we can achieve over time.

因此您會看到我們也與客戶達成了合作。它可能更像是一個多個季度或在某些情況下甚至是多年的過程，確實反映了我們認為可以隨著時間的推移實現的生產力提高。

And that could go either way, right? It can be net positive to margins. If obviously, we've misestimated or sort of delivered poorly, it could be negative. But generally, with fixed fee, you do have the opportunity to improve profitability relative to time and materials because it just gives you more flexibility in how you deliver.

這可能發生，對嗎？這可能會對利潤率產生淨正面影響。如果我們明顯估計錯誤或表現不佳，那麼結果可能會是負面的。但一般來說，如果費用固定，您確實有機會提高相對於時間和材料的盈利能力，因為它為您的交付方式提供了更大的靈活性。

Okay. And a follow-up for me on M&A. I guess, given the buybacks in the quarter and the additional share repurchase authorization, is larger scale M&A off the table? Assuming you're still in the market for tuck-ins to plug capability gaps, what types of assets might you be looking to bring into EPAM?

好的。以及我對併購方面的後續報導。我想，考慮到本季的回購和額外的股票回購授權，大規模的併購是否是不可能的？假設您仍然在尋找能夠彌補能力差距的補充資料，您可能希望將哪些類型的資產引入 EPAM？

I think nothing is off the table. So as always in the past, we constantly have conversations and opportunities for different sizes of acquisitions. And -- by insurance back is actually very much functions of if it's going to happen or not. So it's not must condition, it's a direction which we will be executing only if we think that we will ramp up with any other aspects of the business. So if the M&As will be happening, we will be adjusting the numbers, if necessary.

我認為沒有什麼是不可能的。因此，與過去一樣，我們不斷地討論和尋找不同規模的收購機會。而且 —— 保險回報實際上很大程度上取決於它是否會發生。因此，這不是必須的條件，而是一個方向，只有當我們認為能夠推動業務的其他方面時，我們才會執行這個方向。因此，如果發生併購，我們將在必要時調整數字。

Yes. So we'll do both. But clearly, our bias would be towards acquisitions. And as Ark said, doing something somewhat larger, certainly not off the table.

是的。因此我們會同時做這兩件事。但顯然，我們傾向收購。正如阿克所說，做一些更大規模的事情肯定是不可能的。

Surinder Thind of Jefferies.

傑富瑞 (Jefferies) 的 Surinder Thind。

Just a question around the global delivery footprint. As you look ahead, if revenues was to remain stable, at what point do you think you'll get to your target delivery footprint?

我只想問一下關於全球交付足跡的問題。展望未來，如果營收保持穩定，您認為什麼時候才能達到目標交付規模？

When you say it will be stable, what do you mean? So --

當您說它會穩定時，您是什麼意思？所以--

Assuming -- I think there was commentary on the call about on-site utilization being a little bit below expectations. And so there's continued shift for the requirement of resources in lower-cost regions. I think there's previous commentary around maybe not as much demand in nearshore or Western Europe shifting some of those resources through natural attrition to other parts of the world. So that was the -- what I was trying to get at.

假設——我認為電話會議上有評論稱現場利用率略低於預期。因此，低成本地區對資源的需求不斷轉變。我認為之前有評論認為近岸或西歐的需求可能沒有那麼大，部分資源會透過自然消耗轉移到世界其他地區。這就是我想要表達的意思。

I think -- let me try to answer slightly differently. First of all, we definitely move into global diversification from indications of stability and 24/7 on the growing global climate. And from this point of view, we will be much more diversified than in the past. And right now, it's also -- as we mentioned, probably will be the most balanced global direct company.

我想——讓我試著以稍微不同的方式回答。首先，我們肯定會從穩定指標和全天候不斷發展的全球氣候轉向全球多樣化。從這個角度來看，我們將比過去更加多元化。正如我們所提到的，它現在也可能成為最均衡的全球直銷公司。

That's a direction. What exactly proportion of this, it's much more difficult question to answer because it would be a function of general demand. When you say like, for example, the assurance in Europe is not so much in demand, it's in many ways, subject to the type of work, number one and the cost pressure, number two.

這是一個方向。這個比例到底是多少，這是一個很難回答的問題，因為它取決於一般需求。例如，當您說歐洲的擔保需求不是很大時，它在許多方面都受到工作類型和成本壓力的影響。

As soon as the market will start to come back to kind of fix the technical debt which we're talking about, that modernization cloud and data program will accelerate to again, make the progress of GenAI transformation much more real.

一旦市場開始回暖，解決我們所謂的技術債務，現代化雲端和數據程式將再次加速，使 GenAI 轉型的進展更加切實。

The demand will come back for practically any region. And because of complexity and creativity of these type of engagements proximity will become much more important and pricing component will become less important. So it would influence the structure as well. So again, number one, we will be much more diversified in India and LatAm, it will be a bit the proportion of the total but exactly proportion, we identify it right now.

幾乎所有地區的需求都會回升。而且由於這類活動的複雜性和創造性，接近性將變得更加重要，而定價因素將變得不那麼重要。所以它也會影響結構。所以，首先，我們將在印度和拉丁美洲實現更加多元化，這將佔整體的比例，但確切的比例，我們現在就確定了。

That's helpful. And then related to that, when you think about all of the new talent that you're hiring, how do you differentiate or attract that talent in the sense that others obviously have large delivery operations out of India. They have well-established connections to the local universities, whereas I would argue you're newer to that region. I realize you've been there since 2015 but just on a relative basis.

這很有幫助。與此相關的是，當您考慮所僱用的所有新人才時，您如何區分或吸引這些人才，因為其他公司顯然在印度擁有大型交付業務。他們與當地大學有著良好的聯繫，而我認為你是該地區的新人。我知道你從 2015 年就一直在那裡，但只是相對而言。

So if we're talking about India specifically, I think a couple of factors need to be acknowledged. We have an image of different type of services company, we have an image of much more quality engineering companies and much more closer to what people would think about software tech companies. And from some talent point of view, we compete with these type of companies, the same like with some captives which are trying to build a high-end tech purchases in India. So the image is there already.

因此，如果我們具體談論印度，我認為需要承認幾個因素。我們對不同類型的服務公司的形象、對更高品質的工程公司的形像都有所了解，這更接近人們對軟體技術公司的印象。從人才角度來看，我們與這些類型的公司競爭，就像與一些試圖在印度建立高端技術採購的附屬公司競爭一樣。因此圖像已經存在了。

So at the same time, we are also kind of an underdog in India which means that we have opportunity to play differently and in specific parts of the market, including like bringing our training capabilities and different type of work. I think while there are very large companies, it's -- for us, it's relatively clear how to differentiate us for the labor market, for the type of market. And if you say that we're growing much, much -- like how -- you see it like how India is growing pretty strongly in this situation.

因此，同時，我們在印度也處於劣勢，這意味著我們有機會在市場的特定領域以不同的方式發揮作用，包括帶來我們的培訓能力和不同類型的工作。我認為，雖然有很多大公司，但對我們來說，如何在勞動市場和市場類型上脫穎而出是相對清晰的。如果你說我們的成長非常快——就像——你會看到，印度在這種情況下成長非常強勁。

David Grossman

大衛‧格羅斯曼

Just quick -- a couple of quick follow-ups. If I recall, you said the headwind from India, the mix shift in India was going to be about 200 basis points this year on revenue. Is that still a fair assumption? And do you have any initial thoughts on whether -- or the magnitude of the headwinds would be in 2025?

只是快速地--進行幾個快速的後續行動。如果我沒記錯的話，您說過來自印度的逆風，今年印度的收入組合變化將達到約 200 個基點。這仍然是一個合理的假設嗎？您對 2025 年的逆風程度有何初步看法？

Yes. I would say that 2% is generally correct. It probably has gone up slightly from when we guided at the end of the Q1 call. And then I would say for next year, my guess is the headwind from India might be greater than 2%. So I guess that's how I'd respond to that, David.

是的。我想說 2% 總體上是正確的。與我們在第一季電話會議結束時預測的相比，它可能略有上升。然後我想說，對於明年來說，我猜測來自印度的逆風可能會超過 2%。所以我想這就是我對此的回應，大衛。

And that's just because of the ramp of headcount? Is that why it's higher in '25?

這只是因為員工人數增加嗎？這就是 25 年價格更高的原因嗎？

Yes, it's probably a little bit higher in billable India and a little bit lower in billable on site. And those 2 things are kind of producing what is probably a modest -- modestly lower average bill rate for the company.

是的，在印度計費時可能稍微高一點，在現場計費時可能稍微低一點。這兩件事可能會使公司的平均帳單利率略有下降。

Got it. And similarly, I know you've talked quite a bit about the lost clients, I think one was M&A and one was something else. And I'm just trying to remember whether you quantified that headwind this year and next and when we come out against that headwind?

知道了。同樣，我知道您已經談了很多關於失去客戶的問題，我認為一個是併購，一個是其他原因。我只是想知道您是否量化了今年和明年的逆風，以及我們何時會應對這種逆風？

Yes. So the one that is kind of the M&A like exit which is the one I usually refer to, I think we called out at the end of the year. And then it was double-digit revenue, like it was over $10 million a quarter. So it was a significant number. And then the other one is the one that has been sort of slowly reducing their demand for our services and that continues to be an ongoing trend.

是的。所以，我通常提到的那種類似併購的退出，我想我們是在年底宣布的。然後我們的收入就達到了兩位數，每季超過 1000 萬美元。所以這是一個很重要的數字。另一個是對我們服務的需求慢慢減少，而且這種趨勢還在持續。

And that was a little bit related to their hesitation around our Ukrainian footprint. And then I think they're also just doing a little bit of work around bringing some positions in-house. But we still, again, have demand from them but just there's been a gradual decline over time. And I think you'll continue to see that for the next couple of quarters.

這和他們對我們在烏克蘭的業務猶豫不決有一點關係。然後我認為他們也只是做了一些工作，將一些職位轉移到公司內部。但是，我們仍然對他們有需求，只是隨著時間的推移，需求逐漸下降。我認為在接下來的幾個季度你還會繼續看到這種情況。

Got it. And just one last thing. Just on the DSO, Jason, I know it was up last quarter and it was up again sequentially. Should we see that or do that as maybe a macro dynamic that's affecting all your accounts? Or is this another way of providing better terms to remain more competitive? Or is there something else going on?

知道了。還有最後一件事。傑森，就 DSO 而言，我知道它在上個季度有所上升，並且隨後又連續上升。我們是否應該將其視為或視為影響所有帳戶的宏觀動態？或者這是提供更好條款以保持競爭力的另一種方式？還是有其他事情發生？

Yes. I would say that on the 76 was definitely a result of just the last couple of days being on a weekend and so we saw a significant amount of cash coming on the Monday and Tuesday but that was here in Q3. But David, I would say that as we've moved towards more fixed fee, that is having an impact on DSO, because it does kind of impact the invoicing. And I do think that you're likely to see something closer to 74 for the second half of the year. And again, that's due to the shifting in the type of contracting we've been doing. So then I guess with that, maybe we're --

是的。我想說，76 肯定是由於過去幾天正值週末，所以我們看到週一和週二有大量現金流入，但那是在第三季。但大衛，我想說，隨著我們轉向更固定的費用，這會對 DSO 產生影響，因為它確實會對發票產生影響。我確實認為今年下半年可能會看到接近 74 的數字。再次，這是由於我們承包類型的轉變造成的。所以我想，也許我們--

Operator, we have time for one more question.

接線員，我們還有時間再回答一個問題。

Jamie Friedman from Susquehanna.

來自薩斯奎哈納的傑米弗里德曼。

So with regard to your last answer, Jason, that was really interesting about the fixed price to DSO. I'm just wondering also just related to that, is fixed -- is the growth in fixed price related to generative AI or outcomes-based pricing? That's my first one. And then my second one, I'll just ask it upfront, is Ark, could you call out what's going on in life science? I know Jason mentioned it's a combination of both healthcare and life sciences in his prepared remarks. It was a featured topic at the Analyst Day a couple of years ago. It seems like it's working now. So any high-level stuff, first, on fixed price; and second, on life science?

因此，關於你最後的回答，傑森，關於 DSO 的固定價格確實很有趣。我只是想知道與此相關的是固定價格的成長是否與生成性人工智慧或基於結果的定價有關？這是我的第一個。然後我的第二個問題，我會直接問，Ark，你能講講生命科學領域正在發生的事情嗎？我知道傑森在他的準備好的演講中提到這是醫療保健和生命科學的結合。這是幾年前分析師日的一個專題。現在看起來它正在起作用了。所以任何高級的東西，首先，價格是固定的；第二，關於生命科學？

Fix fees, certainly, there's, I would say, some experimentation with sort of fixed fee with productivity that's GenAI driven. I don't think that's showing up in the numbers right now but it may continue to sort of show up in increased fixed fee. I would say more so, again, clients are looking for us to step in and say, we can deliver a certain program for a fixed amount of money or we can deliver a certain amount of story points for a fixed amount on a monthly basis. And again, it is -- it allows us to be a little bit more competitive. And then we are doing a little bit more business in the Middle East and that market tends to be more fixed fee oriented as well. And so those would be the two things on that.

固定費用，當然，我想說，有一些由 GenAI 驅動的固定費用與生產力的實驗。我認為目前數字上還沒有體現出來，但它可能會繼續以增加固定費用的形式體現出來。我想說的是，客戶希望我們介入並說，我們可以以固定的金額提供某個項目，或者我們可以每月以固定的金額提供一定數量的故事點。再次強調，這確實讓我們更具競爭力。我們在中東的業務也做得稍微多一些，那裡的市場也更傾向於固定費用導向。這就是那兩件事。

And then growth in life sciences & healthcare, Ark?

然後是生命科學和醫療保健領域的成長，阿肯色？

Yes. I think we were talking about it. We were talking about building more industry expertise in this area. And in general, from our conversation several years back, it was positive growth, while it was a couple of things when client situation was actually changed.

是的。我想我們正在談論它。我們正在討論在該領域建立更多的行業專業知識。總的來說，從我們幾年前的談話來看，這是正面的成長，當客戶狀況實際上改變時，也發生了一些事情。

Right now, it's pretty positive. I think concentration of data programs in our life sciences & healthcare business is actually very high which is still in demand today. And again, combination of industry expertise which we invested in some level of consultancy and again data program proportion makes this a benefit for us. And that's with how we look into some other industries, how we can change the trend similar to what is happening here.

目前來看，情況相當正面。我認為我們生命科學和醫療保健業務中數據程序的集中度實際上非常高，這在今天仍然有需求。而且，我們在某種程度上投資的行業專業知識和數據程序比例的結合為我們帶來了好處。這就是我們如何研究其​​他行業，如何改變類似於這裡正在發生的趨勢。

I think time is over. And as usual, thank you for joining us today. So I think we're trying to communicate that while situation as it is right now, we do believe that EPAM is all focused on cloud data engineering and with GenAI, pretty well positioned for the future growth when markets come back. So I know we repeated this each time but it's actually -- we very much believe it. And we will be ready for a comeback and anticipation. We'll see how many quarters we will have to still wait for this. But again, thank you and let's talk in 3 months.

我認為時間已經到了。和往常一樣，感謝您今天的參與。因此，我認為我們試圖傳達的是，儘管目前的情況如此，但我們確實相信 EPAM 完全專注於雲端資料工程，並且借助 GenAI，當市場復甦時，它將為未來的成長做好充分準備。我知道我們每次都重複這一點，但實際上——我們非常相信這一點。我們也做好了回歸的準備，期待未來。我們將看看我們還要等待多少個季度才能實現這一目標。不過我還是要謝謝你，我們三個月後再聊。

That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now all disconnect.

今天的會議就到此結束了。感謝您的參與。現在你們都可以斷開連結了。