Everforth, Inc. (EFOR) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to the ASGN Incorporated fourth-quarter 2023 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) I would now turn the conference over to your host, Kimberly Esterkin, Vice President of Investor Relations. You may begin.

各位好。歡迎參加 ASGN Incorporated 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。(接線員指示) 現在我將把會議交給今天的主持人——投資人關係副總裁 Kimberly Esterkin。您可以開始了。

Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us today for ASGN's fourth quarter and full year 2023 conference call. With me are Ted Hanson, Chief Executive Officer; Rand Blazer, President; and Marie Perry, Chief Financial Officer.

各位下午好。感謝各位今天參加 ASGN 2023 年第四季及全年電話會議。與我一同出席的有執行長 Ted Hanson、總裁 Rand Blazer，以及財務長 Marie Perry。

Before we get started, I would like to remind everyone that our commentary contains forward-looking statements. Although we believe these statements are reasonable, they are subject to risks and uncertainties, and as such, our actual results could differ materially from those statements.

在開始之前，我想提醒各位，我們的評論包含前瞻性陳述。雖然我們相信這些陳述是合理的，但其仍受風險與不確定性影響，因此我們的實際結果可能與這些陳述有重大差異。

Certain of these risks and uncertainties are described in today's press release and in our SEC filings. We do not assume any obligation to update statements made on this call. For your convenience, our prepared remarks and supplemental materials can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website at investors.asgn.com.

其中部分風險與不確定性已在今日新聞稿及我們向 SEC 提交的文件中說明。我們不承擔更新本次電話會議中所作陳述的任何義務。為方便各位，我們的事先準備講稿與補充資料可於 investors.asgn.com 網站的投資人關係專區查閱。

Please also note that on this call, we will be referencing certain non-GAAP measures, such as adjusted EBITDA, adjusted net income and free cash flow. These non-GAAP measures are intended to supplement the comparable GAAP measure. Reconciliations between GAAP and non-GAAP measures are included in today's press release.

也請注意，本次電話會議將引用若干非 GAAP 指標，例如調整後 EBITDA、調整後淨利與自由現金流。這些非 GAAP 指標旨在補充可比較的 GAAP 指標。GAAP 與非 GAAP 指標之間的調節表已包含於今日新聞稿中。

I will now turn the call over to Ted Hanson, Chief Executive Officer.

現在我把電話會議交給執行長 Ted Hanson。

Thank you, Kim, and thank you for joining ASGN's fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings call. ASGN achieved solid results in the fourth quarter with revenues, gross margin and adjusted EBITDA margin all at the top end of or above our guidance ranges.

謝謝 Kim，也感謝各位參加 ASGN 2023 年第四季及全年財報電話會議。ASGN 在第四季取得穩健成果，營收、毛利率與調整後 EBITDA 利潤率皆位於或高於我們的財測區間上緣。

During 2023, revenues totaled approximately $4.5 billion, of which $2.4 billion was in commercial and government IT consulting work. A highlight of our annual performance, commercial consulting revenues reached a new high-water mark, surpassing $1 billion.

2023 年全年營收合計約 45 億美元，其中 24 億美元來自商業與政府 IT 顧問服務工作。在年度表現亮點方面，商業顧問服務營收創下新高，突破 10 億美元。

From a profitability perspective, ongoing expense management, along with our business stabilizers, contributed to an adjusted EBITDA margin of 11.6% for the year. With that as background on our results, I'd like to highlight a few key themes to keep in mind as we review our segment performance.

從獲利角度來看，持續的費用管理，加上我們的業務穩定器，促成全年調整後 EBITDA 利潤率達 11.6%。在此結果背景下，我想強調幾個在檢視各事業部表現時需要留意的關鍵主題。

To start, 2023 was the first time we tested our current revenue mix and operating model in a difficult economy. Today's business is not the same as during the Great Financial Crisis or the pandemic. Therefore, we had yet to witness our current operations in an economic slowdown.

首先，2023 年是我們首次在艱困經濟環境中，檢驗目前的營收組合與營運模式。今日的業務已不同於全球金融危機或疫情期間。因此，我們過去尚未見證現行營運在經濟放緩時的表現。

However, as evidenced by our full year results, I can confidently say that ASGN made solid progress despite macro challenges. Our unique go-to-market strategy, and variable cost structure supported the business and our margins throughout the year.

然而，從我們全年結果可見，我可以有信心地說，ASGN 在宏觀挑戰下仍取得穩健進展。我們獨特的市場進入策略與可變成本結構，全年支撐了業務與利潤率。

Second, not only did we demonstrate our operating model works, but we also showed that we have the right mix of businesses, our federal government services providing countercyclical support to balance out our five diverse commercial industry verticals.

第二，我們不僅證明營運模式可行，也顯示我們擁有正確的業務組合；聯邦政府服務提供逆週期支撐，以平衡我們五個多元的商業產業垂直領域。

Third, our long-standing trusted client relationships drove the growth of our IT consulting revenues. And in the fourth quarter, we officially surpassed 55% of consolidated revenues in IT consulting, a full year ahead of our target. These achievements resulted from proactive efforts to strategically shape and purposely build a business that can perform well throughout market cycles.

第三，我們長期且值得信賴的客戶關係推動了 IT 顧問服務營收成長。而在第四季，我們的 IT 顧問服務占合併營收比重正式超過 55%，比原定目標提前整整一年達成。這些成果來自我們主動且策略性地塑造並有目的地打造一個能在不同市場循環中表現良好的業務。

Our federal government services offered countercyclical balance to our more cyclical commercial businesses. These cyclical commercial businesses, while leading indicators on the downside, have historically seen more sustained rallies as the economy improves.

我們的聯邦政府服務為較具週期性的商業業務提供逆週期平衡。這些週期性商業業務在下行時雖是領先指標，但歷史上在經濟改善時往往會出現更持續的反彈。

Importantly, we are evolving our revenue mix, [moving] our way up the pyramid to provide higher end, higher value IT consulting work that is typically longer in duration and provides us with greater visibility and margin potential. I am certain that our operating model is well positioned as IT services demand recovers. With these themes in mind, let's turn to our segment performance, beginning with our largest segment by revenue, commercial.

重要的是，我們正在演進營收組合，

Our commercial segment services large enterprises and Fortune 1000 companies across five diverse industry verticals. Commercial segment revenues for the quarter declined by low teens year over year. Revenues for the segment benefited from growth in our consulting business, offset by double-digit declines in the more cyclical areas of our assignment business.

我們的商業事業部為大型企業與《財富》1000 大公司提供服務，涵蓋五個多元的產業垂直領域。本季商業事業部營收年減約十幾個百分點。該事業部營收受惠於顧問業務成長，但被較具週期性的派遣業務（assignment business）出現雙位數下滑所抵銷。

Commercial consulting revenues increased roughly 2% for the quarter compared to the year ago period, solid growth given the macro challenges and a difficult year-over-year comparison. Favorable commercial consulting bookings of approximately $312 million translated to a book-to-bill of 1.2 times on a trailing 12-month basis. Another positive, we continue to add new Fortune 1000 clients to our consulting roster.

本季商業顧問服務營收較去年同期約成長 2%；在宏觀挑戰與艱難的年對年比較基期下，這是穩健的成長。約 3.12 億美元的商業顧問服務接單表現良好，使過去 12 個月的接單出單比（book-to-bill）達 1.2 倍。另一項正面因素是，我們持續將新的《財富》1000 大客戶加入顧問客戶名單。

Beyond new work, client retention rates on existing contracts remain strong, and customers are engaging our teams on longer consulting projects. Similar to the third quarter, we saw bookings weighted slightly more towards renewals than new work opportunities.

除了新案之外，既有合約的客戶留存率仍然強勁，且客戶正讓我們的團隊參與更長期的顧問專案。與第三季類似，我們看到接單結構略偏向續約多於新案機會。

As we enter the first quarter of 2024, many of our clients remain deliberate in their IT investments for the year, but their spending on certain consulting contracts remains extended. Nevertheless, the growth in our bookings during the fourth quarter clearly indicates that our clients continue to recognize the value of ASGN's services. Our teams and operating model are well positioned to support our clients' IT road maps as they ramp up their spend.

進入 2024 年第一季，許多客戶在年度 IT 投資上仍維持審慎，但其在部分顧問合約上的支出仍呈延續。儘管如此，第四季接單成長清楚顯示客戶仍持續認可 ASGN 服務的價值。當客戶逐步提高支出時，我們的團隊與營運模式已具備良好定位，可支援其 IT 藍圖。

Turning to our vertical performance. All five commercial industry verticals declined year-over-year. That said, we saw sequential growth on a billable day-adjusted basis in two verticals, consumer & industrial and TMT, and relatively flat sequential performance on a billable day-adjusted basis in the healthcare vertical.

接著談各垂直領域表現。五個商業產業垂直領域皆呈年減。不過，以可計費天數調整後基礎來看，我們在兩個垂直領域——消費與工業（consumer & industrial）以及 TMT——看到季對季成長；而醫療保健（healthcare）垂直領域在可計費天數調整後基礎上季對季表現相對持平。

Sequential improvements in subverticals included utilities, consumer discretionary, healthcare providers, telecom, media, e-commerce and software and services accounts.

子垂直領域的季對季改善包括公用事業、非必需消費、醫療服務提供者、電信、媒體、電子商務，以及軟體與服務類客戶。

Our commercial bookings remained solid with work won across multiple service areas. Our pipeline of AI work continues to grow as our clients focus on data preparation, developing use cases and implementing their AI platforms. As such, we continue to hire subject matter experts, train our current teams, and develop AI accelerator programs, each with our customer needs in mind.

我們的商業接單維持穩健，並在多個服務領域贏得新案。隨著客戶聚焦於資料準備、開發使用案例並導入其 AI 平台，我們的 AI 專案管線持續成長。因此，我們持續招募領域專家、訓練現有團隊，並開發 AI 加速器方案，皆以客戶需求為核心。

For example, Apex Systems' application development team is leveraging our partnership with Microsoft to upscale our developers to become even more productive for our clients. Microsoft technology, in another example, enabled us to significantly shorten new code generation timelines for an automotive and aerospace parts manufacturer.

例如，Apex Systems 的應用程式開發團隊正運用我們與 Microsoft 的合作夥伴關係，提升開發人員技能，使其能為客戶帶來更高生產力。再舉一例，Microsoft 技術協助我們大幅縮短一家汽車與航太零組件製造商的新程式碼生成時程。

In another instance, with the help of Microsoft Copilot, our team substantially reduced data review time at a digital health services provider.

另一次案例中，在 Microsoft Copilot 的協助下，我們的團隊在一家數位健康服務供應商大幅縮短了資料審閱時間。

In addition to Microsoft, Apex Systems is collaborating with several other companies' generative AI technologies. Leveraging both salesforce and ServiceNow's generative AI technologies, we've been able to gain a holistic view of our customers' IT journeys to refine their AI roadmaps, automate solutions, and build personalized data-driven marketing campaigns and IT schedules with improved productivity.

除 Microsoft 外，Apex Systems 也正與其他多家公司的生成式 AI 技術合作。透過同時運用 Salesforce 與 ServiceNow 的生成式 AI 技術，我們得以全面掌握客戶的 IT 歷程，以精進其 AI 藍圖、自動化解決方案，並建立個人化、資料驅動的行銷活動與 IT 排程，進而提升生產力。

Our team of data scientists, engineers, developers and technical project managers have also used the combination of Microsoft Azure, Databricks and Snowflake to help a Fortune 50 telecom company with personalization, predictive modeling and increased revenue generation for its mass marketing campaigns. With AI gaining traction, cybersecurity needs are also increasing.

我們的資料科學家、工程師、開發人員與技術專案經理團隊，也運用 Microsoft Azure、Databricks 與 Snowflake 的組合，協助一家《財富》50 大電信公司在其大眾行銷活動中實現個人化、預測建模並提升營收創造。隨著 AI 逐漸普及，資安需求也在增加。

In the fourth quarter, we worked with a Fortune 25 healthcare insurer to mitigate cybersecurity risk associated with its newly acquired entities. We partnered closely with our client's IT integration team to rapidly assess and remediate over 1,000 vulnerabilities in cloud platforms ahead of their planned integration timelines.

在第四季，我們與一家《財富》25 強的醫療保險公司合作，以降低其新近收購實體所帶來的資安風險。我們與客戶的 IT 整合團隊緊密合作，在其規劃的整合時程之前，迅速評估並修補雲端平台上超過 1,000 項弱點。

By leveraging our deep expertise in Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure and hybrid cloud environments, we meaningfully reduced our client's regulatory compliance and data breach risk during this critical transaction period.

憑藉我們在 Amazon Web Services、Microsoft Azure 以及混合雲環境方面的深厚專業，我們在這段關鍵交易期間，實質降低了客戶的法規遵循與資料外洩風險。

We've also integrated our public sector cybersecurity DNA to help grow our commercial work. Our professionals at ECS have developed proprietary methods for intelligence gathering, security instrumentation and incident response, each of which has been battle-tested by the Department of Defense and is now being leveraged by our commercial clients.

我們也將公部門資安的 DNA 融入其中，以協助擴大我們的商業業務。ECS 的專業人員已開發出用於情報蒐集、安全儀表化與事件回應的專有方法；這些方法均已由國防部實戰驗證，並正被我們的商業客戶所採用。

We believe that our combined credentials expertise and past qualifications will continue to drive our cybersecurity efforts across our Fortune 1000 client list. Speaking of our public sector services, let's now turn to our Federal government segment, our sixth industry vertical, which provides mission-critical solutions to the Department of Defense, the intelligence community and federal civilian agencies. Federal Segment revenues for the fourth quarter were up 9.2% year over year.

我們相信，我們結合後的資安證照專業與過往資歷，將持續推動我們在《財富》1000 客戶名單中的資安工作。談到我們的公部門服務，接下來讓我們轉到聯邦政府事業部——我們的第六個產業垂直領域——該事業部為國防部、情報社群以及聯邦文職機構提供關鍵任務解決方案。聯邦事業部第四季營收年增 9.2%。

Contract backlog was $3 billion at the end of the quarter, or a healthy coverage ratio of 2.4 times the segment's trailing 12-month revenues. New awards were approximately $56 million, translating to a book-to-bill of 0.8 times on a trailing 12-month basis.

本季末合約在手訂單（backlog）為 30 億美元，對應該事業部過去 12 個月營收的健康覆蓋倍數為 2.4 倍。新增得標金額約 5,600 萬美元，換算過去 12 個月基礎的接單出貨比（book-to-bill）為 0.8 倍。

Bookings this past quarter were soft due to a combination of traditional seasonality and greater-than-anticipated award deferrals into the first half of 2024. Our pipeline as well as the bids submitted and awaiting award are each near the highest levels they have ever been. The lower bookings in Q4 resulted from a timing issue rather than lost work opportunities, and we already see a pickup in contract activity in the new year. We expect stronger bookings in the first half of 2024.

本季接單偏弱，原因是傳統季節性因素與高於預期的得標遞延至 2024 年上半年。我們的商機管線，以及已投標並等待授標的案件，均接近歷史最高水準。第四季較低的接單是時點問題，而非失去工作機會所致；我們已在新年度看到合約活動回升。我們預期 2024 年上半年接單將更為強勁。

In the fourth quarter, bookings were led by work with the US intelligence community and several civilian agencies. For example, we continue to manage the FBI's cybersecurity Red and Blue program, and in Q4 we won additional work under this contract.

第四季接單主要由與美國情報社群及數個文職機構的工作所帶動。例如，我們持續管理 FBI 的資安紅隊與藍隊計畫，而在第四季我們也在該合約下贏得了額外工作。

This mission-based work is designed to secure and monitor the FBI networks from external threats and internal vulnerabilities. In addition to work booked in the fourth quarter, ECS also announced two large multiple-award IDIQ contracts this past November that allow our government team to bid on new work in the future.

這項以任務為導向的工作旨在保護並監控 FBI 網路，防範外部威脅與內部弱點。除第四季已接單的工作外，ECS 也在去年 11 月宣布兩項大型多家授標的 IDIQ 合約，使我們的政府團隊未來得以競標新的工作。

With the Veterans Affairs Office of Information and Technology, we won a $60.7 billion prime IDIQ contract. ECS has partnered with the VA since 2009, but this is the first time we won a prime contract with this office. Under this contract, ECS will provide a full range of IT services, including technical support, project management, strategy planning, systems software engineering, enterprise networking and cybersecurity, amongst other services. Task orders under this IDIQ are expected to come out in the third quarter of this year and be awarded in the fourth quarter.

我們與退伍軍人事務部（VA）資訊與科技辦公室合作，贏得一項 607 億美元的主承包（prime）IDIQ 合約。ECS 自 2009 年起即與 VA 合作，但這是我們首次在該辦公室贏得主承包合約。依據此合約，ECS 將提供全方位 IT 服務，包括技術支援、專案管理、策略規劃、系統與軟體工程、企業網路與資安等服務。預期該 IDIQ 之下的任務單（task orders）將於今年第三季釋出，並於第四季授標。

We also won a $1.25 billion prime IDIQ contract with the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, DARPA, to provide technical, analytical and program support. An agency of the US, Department of Defense, DARPA's mission is to develop breakthrough technologies for national security by working with partners inside and outside the federal government.

我們也與國防高等研究計畫署（DARPA）贏得一項 12.5 億美元的主承包 IDIQ 合約，以提供技術、分析與計畫支援。DARPA 隸屬於美國國防部，其任務是透過與聯邦政府內外部夥伴合作，研發用於國家安全的突破性技術。

ECS has been a well-respected partner of DARPA for more than 30 years and in 2018 was one of seven awardees on a $850 million IDIQ. Success under this previous contract helped lead us to our award under this new large prime contract.

ECS 作為 DARPA 備受尊敬的合作夥伴已逾 30 年，並於 2018 年成為一項 8.5 億美元 IDIQ 的七家得標者之一。在先前合約下的成功表現，促成我們在這項新的大型主承包合約中得標。

With that, I'll now turn the call over to Marie to discuss the fourth quarter results and our first quarter 2024 guidance.

接下來，我把電話交給 Marie，請她說明第四季業績以及我們對 2024 年第一季的指引。

Thanks, Ted. It's great to speak with everyone this afternoon. As Ted noted, revenue exceeded our expectations for the quarter. Fourth quarter revenues of $1.1 billion were above the top end of our guidance range due to continued commercial contract engagement during the holiday season, growth in our commercial consulting business, and continued strength in our Federal government segment.

謝謝，Ted。很高興今天下午能與各位交流。如 Ted 所提，當季營收超出我們的預期。第四季營收為 11 億美元，高於我們指引區間的上緣，原因包括假期期間商業合約持續投入、商業顧問業務成長，以及聯邦政府事業部持續強勁。

Revenues from the commercial segment was $748.6 million, down 12.2% compared to the prior year quarter. Revenue for commercial consulting, the largest of our high margin revenue streams, totaled $268.5 million, up 1.7% year over year despite difficult market conditions and a tough comparison of 37.8% growth in the fourth quarter of 2022.

商業事業部營收為 7.486 億美元，較去年同期下降 12.2%。商業顧問營收（我們高毛利營收來源中規模最大者）合計 2.685 億美元，儘管市場環境艱難，且 2022 年第四季曾有 37.8% 的高成長形成嚴峻比較基期，仍年增 1.7%。

For the full year, commercial consulting revenues improved 14.2% on an as-reported basis and improved 8.6% organically. With the solid growth in our commercial consulting revenues for the year, we reached over $1 billion in commercial consulting revenues in 2023, as Ted previously noted.

就全年而言，商業顧問營收按申報口徑（as-reported）成長 14.2%，按有機口徑成長 8.6%。隨著全年商業顧問營收穩健成長，我們在 2023 年的商業顧問營收突破 10 億美元，如 Ted 先前所提。

Growth in commercial consulting revenues was offset by an 18.4% year-over-year decline in assignment revenue, reflecting continued softness in the more cyclical parts of our businesses. For the full year, assignment revenues declined 16% compared to 2022. Revenues from our Federal Government segment were $325.5 million, up 9.2% year-over-year. For the full year, Federal Government segment revenue improved by 11.4% on an as-reported basis and 4.9% organically. Turning to margins.

商業顧問營收的成長，被派遣（assignment）營收年減 18.4% 所抵銷，反映我們業務中較具循環性的部分仍持續疲弱。就全年而言，派遣營收較 2022 年下降 16%。聯邦政府事業部營收為 3.255 億美元，年增 9.2%。就全年而言，聯邦政府事業部營收按申報口徑成長 11.4%，按有機口徑成長 4.9%。接下來談毛利率。

On a consolidated basis, gross margin was 28.4%, down 120 basis points over the fourth quarter of last year. The year-over-year compression in gross margin was largely related to business mix, including a lower mix of certain high-margin revenues within our Commercial segment and a higher mix of lower margin revenues from our Federal Government segment. Gross margin for the Commercial segment was 32.1%, down 10 basis points year-over-year, primarily due to the lower mix of certain high-margin assignment revenue stream, mainly creative digital marketing and permanent placement revenue, mostly offset by a higher mix of high-margin IT consulting revenue. Gross margin for the Federal Government segment was 19.9%, down 220 basis points year-over-year due to a higher mix of lower-margin licensing revenues. SG&A expenses for the fourth quarter were $203.6 million or 19% of revenue compared to $229.9 million or 20% of revenues in the prior year.

合併口徑下，毛利率為 28.4%，較去年第四季下降 120 個基點。毛利率年對年下滑主要與業務組合有關，包括商業事業部中部分高毛利營收占比降低，以及聯邦政府事業部低毛利營收占比提高。商業事業部毛利率為 32.1%，年減 10 個基點，主要因部分高毛利的派遣營收（以創意數位行銷與永久派遣／長期任用安置收入為主）占比下降，但多數被高毛利 IT 顧問營收占比提高所抵銷。聯邦政府事業部毛利率為 19.9%，年減 220 個基點，原因是低毛利授權收入占比提高。第四季銷售、一般及行政（SG&A）費用為 2.036 億美元，占營收 19%，相較去年同期為 2.299 億美元，占營收 20%。

This improvement was mainly due to lower incentive compensation expenses. SG&A expenses also included $1.6 million in acquisition, integration and strategic planning expenses that were not included in our guidance estimates. As expected, interest expense increased year-over-year related to rising interest rates and our refinancing this past August. Net income was $50.3 million, adjusted EBITDA was $121 million, and adjusted EBITDA margin was 11.3%. At quarter end, cash and cash equivalents were $175.9 million, and we had full availability under our new $500 million senior secured revolver.

這項改善主要來自較低的獎酬激勵薪酬費用。SG&A 費用亦包含 160 萬美元的併購、整合與策略規劃費用，該費用未納入我們的指引估計。如預期，利息費用因利率上升以及我們於去年 8 月完成再融資而年增。淨利為 5,030 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 1.21 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 11.3%。季末現金及約當現金為 1.759 億美元，且我們在新的 5 億美元優先擔保循環信貸額度下仍有全額可用額度。

Free cash flow for the quarter was $109.2 million, an increase of 68.5% year-over-year. We deployed $75.4 million in cash on the repurchase of approximately 872,000 shares during the fourth quarter at an attractive price of $86.37. For the full year, free cash flow totaled $417 million, an increase of 54.3% year-over-year. We deployed $273.1 million in cash in 2023 on the repurchase of 3.4 million shares at an average price of $79.89. We have roughly $273.7 million remaining under our share repurchase authorization.

本季自由現金流為1.092億美元，年增68.5%。我們在第四季以具吸引力的每股86.37美元價格，動用7,540萬美元現金回購約872,000股。全年自由現金流合計4.17億美元，年增54.3%。我們於2023年動用2.731億美元現金，以平均每股79.89美元回購340萬股。依據我們的股票回購授權，目前尚餘約2.737億美元可用額度。

With strong free cash flow generation and full availability under our revolver, we have ample dry powder to make strategic acquisitions once the M&A market improves. Turning to guidance. Our financial estimates for first quarter of 2024 are set forth in our earnings release and supplemental materials. These estimates are based on current market conditions. Our estimates assume 62.75 billable days in the first quarter, 0.25 billable days fewer than a year ago period and 2.75 billable days more than Q4 of 2023.

憑藉強勁的自由現金流產生能力以及循環信貸額度（revolver）的完全可用性，一旦併購（M&A）市場改善，我們有充足的「火力」進行策略性收購。接著談指引。我們對2024年第一季的財務估計已載於新聞稿與補充資料中。這些估計係基於目前的市場狀況。我們的估計假設第一季有62.75個可計費日，較去年同期少0.25個可計費日，較2023年第四季多2.75個可計費日。

Guidance also considers seasonality, with the first quarter traditionally the lowest of the year. It is also important to remember that the payroll tax reset occurs at the beginning of every calendar year, having approximately 100 basis points of downward impact on adjusted EBITDA margins as we move from the fourth to the first quarter. We expect market conditions to remain challenging in the first quarter. In our Commercial segment, we anticipate revenues will remain soft across our assignments and consulting. Declines in commercial revenues are expected to be partially offset by continued growth in our Federal Government segment.

指引亦考量季節性因素，第一季傳統上是一年中最低的季度。同時也要記得，每個曆年年初會進行薪資稅重置，當我們從第四季進入第一季時，對調整後EBITDA利潤率約有100個基點的下行影響。我們預期第一季市場狀況仍將充滿挑戰。在商業（Commercial）部門，我們預期派遣與顧問服務的營收將持續疲弱。商業營收的下滑預期將部分由聯邦政府（Federal Government）部門的持續成長所抵銷。

We expect gross margins to decline year-over-year due to a business mix similar to current trends, including a greater mix of federal government revenues and continued softness in our more cyclical commercial businesses. Our cash SG&A margin will remain relatively consistent year-over-year.

我們預期毛利率將年減，原因在於業務組合與目前趨勢相近，包括聯邦政府營收占比提高，以及我們較具景氣循環性的商業業務持續疲弱。我們的現金SG&A利潤率將與去年同期大致一致。

In lieu of M&A, we expect to continue to allocate our free cash flow towards share repurchase. With this background, we are estimating revenue of $1.032 billion to $1.052 billion for the first quarter. We are estimating net income of $37.7 million to $41.3 million, adjusted EBITDA of $104.5 million to $109.5 million, and adjusted EBITDA margin of 10.1% to 10.4%. Thank you. I'll now turn the call back to Ted for some closing remarks.

在未進行併購（M&A）的情況下，我們預期將持續把自由現金流配置於股票回購。在此背景下，我們估計第一季營收為10.32億至10.52億美元。我們估計淨利為3,770萬至4,130萬美元，調整後EBITDA為1.045億至1.095億美元，調整後EBITDA利潤率為10.1%至10.4%。謝謝。接下來我把電話交回Ted做一些結語。

Thanks, Marie. While we are positive about the future, all signs indicate continued softness in the near term. However, a difficult market does not mean we've taken a back seat to our client relationships. Rather, as is evident in our resilient financial performance this past year, we've worked ever harder, proactively staying close to each of our clients and continuing to hold regular strategic discussions about their IT road maps. I cannot thank our teams enough for your hard work these past 12 months.

謝謝你，Marie。雖然我們對未來保持正向，但各項跡象顯示短期內仍將持續疲弱。然而，市場艱難並不代表我們在客戶關係上退居二線。相反地，正如我們過去一年展現的韌性財務表現所示，我們更加努力，主動貼近每一位客戶，並持續就其IT路線圖進行定期的策略性討論。我非常感謝各團隊在過去12個月的辛勤付出。

Each and every one of you has helped position ASGN as an IT industry leader, continuing to develop yourselves and our service offerings so that we are primed to support our clients' ongoing digital transformation needs. And while certain IT projects have naturally been pushed to the right, they are not completely off the table. The need for IT services will be strong, and ASGN is one of the fastest ways for our clients to ramp up their investments and reengage more fully in their IT road map. Our domestic footprint is as solid as it has ever been. And now, with our nearshore capabilities in Mexico also at scale, we are able to provide a deep talent pool that is highly skilled and competitively priced across multiple geographies.

你們每一位都協助將ASGN定位為IT產業領導者，持續精進自身與我們的服務內容，使我們已準備好支援客戶持續的數位轉型需求。儘管部分IT專案自然被往後延，但並未完全取消。對IT服務的需求將會強勁，而ASGN是客戶加速投入、並更全面重新啟動其IT路線圖的最快方式之一。我們在美國本土的布局一如既往地穩固。此外，隨著我們在墨西哥的近岸（nearshore）能力也已達到規模，我們能在多個地理區域提供深厚的人才庫，具備高技能且具競爭力的成本。

As I highlighted at the start of today's call, ASGN's business today is the result of several years of thoughtful and proactive planning. We've shaped our service offerings in business segments to reflect increasing IT demand, and our competitive industry position and differentiated go-to-market strategy are aligned with our clients' needs. We will focus our efforts in 2024 on further strengthening our IT consulting capabilities, taking advantage of opportunities as we pursue higher end, higher value projects that drive our clients' IT efforts and position ASGN for success. Thank you again for joining our fourth quarter and full year 2023 call. Operator, please open the call to questions.

如我在今天電話會議一開始所強調，ASGN今日的業務是多年來審慎且主動規劃的成果。我們已在各業務部門中塑造服務內容以反映日益增加的IT需求，而我們具競爭力的產業地位與差異化的市場進入策略（go-to-market strategy）也與客戶需求一致。2024年我們將聚焦進一步強化IT顧問能力，把握機會，爭取更高階、更高價值的專案，以推動客戶的IT工作並使ASGN邁向成功。再次感謝各位參加我們2023年第四季與全年電話會議。接線員，請開放提問。

Thank you. And at this time we will be conducting a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。接下來我們將進行問答環節。(接線員指示)

Maggie Nolan, William Blair.

Maggie Nolan，William Blair。

Hi, thank you. I'm wondering if you can give us any additional information on how demand and revenue the cadence of that from October through January here and what you've seen and bang?

嗨，謝謝。我想請問你們是否能提供更多資訊，關於從10月到1月這段期間需求與營收的節奏（cadence）如何，以及你們觀察到的情況與變化？

It's Ted. Thanks for the question. I would say demand throughout the fourth quarter. You said October through January was pretty steady. Um, we had program maybe for a little softer last couple of weeks in the firm of furloughs or slowing in spending.

我是Ted。謝謝你的提問。我會說第四季整體需求……你提到10月到1月，基本上相當穩定。嗯，我們可能在最後幾週稍微偏軟一些，主要是因為無薪假（furloughs）或支出放緩。

And I would say that for the most part, it hung together better than we thought. And therefore, we were a little bit ahead of our number, you know, not a whole lot other than that. I think the quarter was a similar demand quarter to the third quarter as you can see in our guidance, although seasonally it's a little slower start always in the first quarter, we are predicting about the same based on what we can see right now Got it.

但我會說大致上表現比我們原先想的更能撐住。因此，我們的表現略高於我們的目標數字，你知道的，沒有差很多，除此之外就那樣。我認為本季的需求狀況與第三季相近，從我們的指引也看得出來；雖然就季節性而言，第一季一向是較慢的開局，但依我們目前所見，我們預測大致相同。了解。

Got it. Thank you. And then, Maria, I think in your prepared remarks, you mentioned some of the gross margin impacts from and the mix within the commercial segment in particular and what surprised you about that mix and what is your outlook for how mix may impact margins over the coming quarters here?

了解，謝謝。另外，Maria，我想在你事先準備的談話中，你提到一些毛利率的影響，特別是商業部門內部組合的影響；想請問這個組合中有哪些地方讓你感到意外？以及你對未來幾季組合如何影響利潤率的展望為何？

Maggie, a couple of things as it relates to mix. And so there are some things that will definitely kind of carry forward from what we saw in the fourth quarter to the first quarter of the first is really the higher government segment, which has a lower mix than the commercial and so on with the countercyclical aspect of the government, and we are just seeing that. And then on the commercial side, we've just highlighted, especially those discretionary areas and just softer from a margin perspective,

Maggie，關於組合有幾點。因此，有些因素會從我們在第四季看到的情況延續到第一季；第一個主要是政府部門占比提高，而其利潤率（mix）低於商業部門；再加上政府業務具逆景氣循環特性，我們確實正在看到這點。而在商業端，我們也特別指出，尤其是那些可自由裁量的領域，從利潤率角度來看確實更疲弱。

(multiple speakers) But yes, I would highlight what Maurice said, it's mostly being driven by higher than expected growth in the federal segment itself. You'll see that the first quarter.

(多位發言者) 不過是的，我會強調Maurice所說的，主要是由聯邦部門本身高於預期的成長所驅動。你會在第一季看到這點。

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jeff Silber, BMO Capital Markets.

Jeff Silber，BMO Capital Markets。

Much of you cited a couple of verticals.I think it was commercial, industrial and key segments. I might have gotten those wrong, but forgive me on that saw sequential growth on a billable day basis. It is still the day adjusted basis, what's going on in those markets that are different than some of the other verticals that you're seeing?

你們多次提到幾個垂直領域，我想是商業、工業以及關鍵部門。我可能記錯了，先請見諒；但這些領域在以可計費日為基礎的口徑下呈現環比成長。在仍以可計費日調整後的基礎來看，這些市場與你們在其他垂直領域所看到的情況相比，有哪些不同之處？

Yeah Rand, you want to take that one?

好的，Rand，你要回答這題嗎？

Yes. Well, I think first of all, if you look within those sectors on gas and you see what comprises them, for example, utilities and energy remained strong and grew sequentially in that quarter. We actually had 12 of our sectors growing mostly in the consumer, industrial and C and the TMT. area of care also kind of held its own, particularly in the provider space.

是的。嗯，我想首先，如果你看那些與天然氣相關的產業別，並看看其組成，例如公用事業與能源在該季度仍然強勁，且較前一季成長。我們其實有 12 個產業別成長，主要集中在消費、工業以及 C 和 TMT。醫療也算是維持住，特別是在醫療服務提供者（provider）領域。

So I think when you look further below just the general industry and you look at specific areas which we've enumerated some in the text, you can see that those sectors are fairly healthy and continuing to move along. And it was nice to see more of them grow in the fourth quarter sequentially over the third quarter than we saw in previous quarters.

所以我想，當你不只看整體產業，而是再往下看特定領域（我們在文字稿中也列舉了一些），你會看到那些產業別相當健康，並持續推進。而且很高興看到第四季相較第三季，按季成長的產業別比前幾季更多。

Okay. That's helpful. And I can move on to the federal government sector. You talked about some projects for some timing of starts being deferred and hopefully you're not going to catch up on those. But I'm just curious, as we go through the rest of the year, considering it is an election year with all the uncertainty going down in Washington do you think that kind of mindset will continue? Should we expect those kind of deferrals and delays the rest of the year?

好的。這很有幫助。那我可以接著問聯邦政府部門。你提到有些專案因為啟動時點而被延後，希望你們不會需要去追趕那些。但我想請教的是，隨著今年剩餘時間推進，考量到今年是選舉年、華府充滿不確定性，你覺得這種心態會持續嗎？我們是否應該預期今年剩下時間仍會有這類遞延與延宕？

Well, I think on the one hand, the administration would like to get as much out on the street is a parcel does a good job on the other hand there -- they're dealing with the continuing resolution. And to the extent they continue to deal with that will continue to perform on the work that we have, but some of the bigger decisions on new work may be delayed traffic. We saw the start of that year in the fourth quarter.

嗯，我想一方面，政府希望盡可能把更多案子推出去，Parsons 也做得不錯；但另一方面，他們——他們正面臨持續決議案（continuing resolution）。在他們持續受此影響的情況下，我們會繼續執行手上已有的工作，但一些較大的新案決策可能會被延後。我們在第四季就看到這種情況開始出現。

So as we said in our remarks, it wasn't an issue of lost work are submitted awaiting awards as a part of our pipeline is not as high as it's ever been, but we're going to see most of the things that you indicated. We hope in the first two quarters here. Some of those that did not get decided in the fourth.

所以如同我們在發言中所說，這不是工作流失的問題；我們已提交、等待授標的案量作為管線的一部分，並非史上最高，但我們會看到你所提到的大多數事項。我們希望會在這裡的前兩個季度發生。包括一些在第四季尚未定案的。

Okay. Really appreciate the color. Thanks so much.

好的。非常感謝你提供的補充說明。非常謝謝。

Thank you. Tobey Sommer, Truist Securities.

謝謝。Truist Securities 的 Tobey Sommer。

Thanks. Within the commercial consulting area, you didn't say that renewals running better more than 50% of new business. But -- is that the same as the recent quarter or two? Or is the mix closer to parity there with new business doing a little bit better than it had three or six months ago?

謝謝。在商業顧問（commercial consulting）領域，你提到續約表現更好，且占新業務的 50% 以上。但——這跟最近一兩季是一樣的情況嗎？還是說組合更接近各半，而新業務相較三或六個月前表現稍微好一些？

Rand, it's pretty much the same as the previous quarter, right?

Rand，這基本上跟上一季差不多，對吧？

That's correct. It was a little bit more. It's always been in balance between 50 40 and 40, 60 and maybe earlier in the year 23, there was a little bit new work, which probably is typical of a beginning of a business cycle, but for the year. But yes, it was consistent with Q3.

沒錯。續約占比稍微多一點。一直以來大致維持平衡，大概在 50/40 與 40/60 之間；而且可能在今年稍早的 23 年，新增工作稍微多一些，這大概也符合景氣循環初期的典型狀況，但就全年來看——不過是的，與第三季一致。

Project sizes having any variance in there a year or 18 months ago, you saw a project size coming down. Maybe customers were piecemeal in our project Dragon. You don't let it out all at once to any changes that you're actually brand.

專案規模相較一年前或 18 個月前有任何變化嗎？當時你們看到專案規模在縮小。也許客戶把專案拆成零碎的部分。你們不會一次全部釋出——目前是否有任何變化，你們實際上——品牌。

Rand?

Rand？

And I would say project size is still on a slight upward trend on how much elongating the spend that is stretching out the project. It started at the end of last year and last couple of quarters and continued as to the fourth quarter. So yes, the project sizes are certainly fine.

我會說專案規模仍呈現小幅上升趨勢；至於支出拉長，也就是把專案時程拉長，這種情況仍在持續。這從去年年底、過去幾季開始，並延續到第四季。所以是的，專案規模當然是沒問題的。

In fact, I'm I think Ted mentioned in the AI side, we've won some work in this in the third quarter. We won some work in the fourth quarter and we're looking at some larger projects in AI is what I call the you move up the totem pole from looking at we have now processing power and with chip technology, we have the apps embedding AI into their apps.

事實上，我想 Ted 在 AI 方面提到，我們在第三季贏得了一些案子。我們在第四季也贏得了一些案子，而且我們正在看一些更大型的 AI 專案；我把這稱為——你從較低層往上走：我們現在有運算能力與晶片技術，也有把 AI 嵌入應用程式的 app。

You have a lot of data migration and cloud building infrastructure going on. So we now we see more data prep use cases and building algorithms we're getting closer to closer to real insertion of AI into our clients' business areas and the more work in the data prep area and use cases in the execution of use cases, the more we're going to see work.

你也看到大量資料遷移與雲端建置基礎設施正在進行。所以現在我們看到更多資料準備（data prep）的使用案例，以及建立演算法；我們正越來越接近把 AI 真正導入客戶的業務領域。資料準備與使用案例執行的工作越多，我們就會看到越多的案子。

Okay. It is going to kind of double click on the government ECS business. Your treasury outlays have actually been good and several of the larger focus companies on that trade publicly have substantially better book to bills and underlying contracting trends that you're seeing. How do I square the discrepancy between the performance here and what you've seen in it from a broader lens?

好的。我想再深入追問一下政府 ECS 業務。財政部支出其實表現不錯，而且在那個領域公開交易的幾家較大型重點公司，book-to-bill 與底層承攬趨勢都明顯更好。我該如何理解你們這裡的表現，與從更廣角度看到的趨勢之間的落差？

Tobey, I think you know, we haven't seen other government peers release, but for some of the ones that we track, they are seasonably below one like we are for Q4. I think it's the vagary of what are we bidding on versus what are they bidding on and where our relationships versus theirs.

Tobey，我想你也知道，我們還沒看到其他政府同業公布，但就我們追蹤的一些公司而言，他們在第四季也像我們一樣，季節性地低於 1。我想這取決於我們投標的是什麼、他們投標的是什麼，以及我們的關係網與他們的關係網分布在哪裡。

But you've got to take a lot of confidence in this in the size of our submitted waiting award number and in places where we have real relationships. And so while we might have been a little closer to one to in a typical quarter. We still would have been below it in a fourth quarter. So we're positive about the things that we have out there and that we're waiting have to be adjudicated and we'll have to see how they go here in the first quarter and into the second.

但你應該對我們「已提交、等待授標」的數字規模，以及我們在具備深厚關係的領域，抱持很大的信心。因此，雖然在一般季度我們可能會更接近 1（甚至略高於 1），但在第四季我們仍會低於 1。所以我們對目前在外面、以及我們正在等待裁定的案子保持正向看法；接下來就要看第一季到第二季的進展如何。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Joseph Vafi, Canaccord Genuity.

Canaccord Genuity 的 Joseph Vafi。

Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking my call or and taking my questions here this afternoon. I just -- maybe we just start on the assignment side and looking at maybe green shoots or if it's a little early for that, you know, on a sequential basis, I know it's a leading indicator, maybe some more commentary there of what you're seeing on assignment across verticals and the like. And then I'll have some follow-ups.

嗨，各位。謝謝接我的電話——以及今天下午回答我的問題。我只是——也許我們先從派案（assignment）這一塊開始，看看是否出現一些回溫跡象，或現在談還太早；你知道的，從按季來看，我知道這是領先指標，也希望你們多評論一下你們在各垂直領域等方面看到的派案情況。然後我還有一些追問。

So Joe, I think that I'll start, and Rand can chip in here. I wouldn't say there are green shoots there. I'll say there is steadiness, if you will. So we can see that in a couple of ways. One, we see our order flow, and then we can index that against industry performance.

Joe，我想我先回答，Rand 也可以補充。我不會說那裡有回溫跡象。我會說是穩定，如果你願意這麼稱呼的話。我們可以從幾個面向看到。第一，我們看到訂單流量（order flow），然後可以把它與產業表現做對照。

As Rand mentioned it earlier, we now have two industries that are growing sequentially on an adjusted basis and one that's flat. So that's an improvement from none out of five, but we need more than just two. So I would say steady, not green shoots, and we'll have to see how this quarter develops. I mean it's -- typically in the assignment part of the business, you come across seasonably at a slightly lower level coming out of Q4 and into Q1, and that's what we saw. And it's about what we saw in the prior year.

如 Rand 先前提到，我們現在有兩個產業在調整後基礎上按季成長，另有一個持平。這比五個裡面一個都沒有成長要好，但我們需要的不只是兩個。所以我會說是穩定，而不是回溫跡象；我們還得看本季如何發展。我的意思是——通常在派案型業務中，從第四季進入第一季時，季節性會略為走低，而我們看到的就是這樣。而且大致與前一年相同。

So I'd say really no difference there. And then you spend the first quarter kind of reclaiming ground, if you will, as clients release budgets they begin to spend. And so that's kind of what we're monitoring here as we go.

所以我會說，這方面真的沒有差異。接著第一季你會看到某種程度的回補動能，因為客戶在釋出預算後就開始支出。因此，這就是我們在推進過程中持續監控的重點。

Rand, would you add anything else to that?

Rand，你還要補充什麼嗎？

Well, Ted, and Joe, let me just comment. In consulting, we see green shoots because there's discussion with clients about their road maps, about what the next projects are. There's some process leading up to release of an RFP, if you will, or a piece of work that we can bid on and go ahead and potentially win.

Ted、Joe，我簡單評論一下。在顧問服務方面，我們看到一些復甦跡象，因為我們正與客戶討論他們的路線圖、下一批專案會是什麼。在他們釋出RFP（徵求建議書），或釋出我們可以投標並有機會得標的工作之前，通常會有一些前置流程。

In the staffing, the assignment side of the business, it's a very quick transaction type environment. So clients are sitting there with requirements that they will, once budgets are approved and once they get the green light from corporate, if you will, they'll release requirements, and boom, we'll see [rev] flow, much different than we've seen for the past year.

在派遣、人力配置這一端的業務，則是一個非常快速、偏交易型的環境。因此客戶手上有需求，一旦預算核准、也就是一旦他們從總部拿到綠燈，就會釋出需求，然後砰的一下，我們就會看到[rev]的流入，和過去一年看到的情況大不相同。

So it's more transactional and more quick based. Green shoots really come from where we can see a buildup of thought and proactive working toward an end, if that helps at all, Joe, in your question. Certainly, perm placement part of assignment revenue is going to be -- nobody is going to do anything until corporate gives the go ahead, right, and says we can hire internal people.

所以它更偏交易型、節奏也更快。所謂的復甦跡象，主要來自於我們能看到思考的累積，以及朝著某個結果主動推進的過程；如果這能對你的問題有幫助的話，Joe。當然，派遣營收中的永久職缺安置（perm placement）部分，在總部點頭之前沒有人會做任何事，對吧？也就是說，得先說我們可以招募內部人員。

Sure. That's great color. Thank you. And then maybe just drill down a little bit on the Mexico delivery center and obviously digital transformation can't stand still because the world is not standing still and enterprises need to move forward and maybe you're going to have some more any evolution in the business model and we're seeing others and services lead with lower-cost geos and how that is maybe helping keeping consulting moving forward on an upward trajectory?

了解。這些說明很有幫助。謝謝。接著也許再深入問一下墨西哥交付中心；顯然數位轉型不能停下來，因為世界沒有停下來，企業也需要持續前進。也許你們的商業模式會有更多演進；我們也看到其他公司與服務商以低成本地區作為切入點，這是否有助於讓顧問業務持續向上發展？

I think -- well, look, I think that's right, Joe. I mean, our clients are looking for things to either continue that are critical or things that haven't started that are critical, a way to get them done even in the face of tight budgets. I mean they're very wary here, they haven't kind of fully released things. And so they've turned to delivery opportunities like our Mexico delivery center. We've seen full utilization-plus in that center.

我想——嗯，我看你說得沒錯，Joe。我的意思是，我們的客戶在尋找一些要嘛必須持續、要嘛尚未啟動但同樣關鍵的事項，並希望即使在預算吃緊的情況下，也能找到完成的方法。他們在這裡非常謹慎，還沒有完全把事情放開。因此他們轉向像我們墨西哥交付中心這樣的交付選項。我們看到該中心的產能利用率不僅滿載，甚至超載。

And even here over a short time in the last few years, I mean, our headcounts there have grown by 10x. So I think it's a really good example. Here in the US, you can see clients much more willing to look broadly across the US to other lower-cost markets. They're willing to get project teams that are in lower cost areas.

而且即便只是過去幾年這麼短的時間，我們那邊的人力規模已經成長了10倍。所以我認為這是一個非常好的例子。在美國這邊，你可以看到客戶更願意在全美範圍內更廣泛地尋找其他低成本市場。他們願意採用位於較低成本地區的專案團隊。

They don't have to have certain developers sitting right in Jersey City at a certain exorbitant price per hour. They're just thinking differently about all that stuff. So there's movement going on around that for sure. But I would just reinforce here that clients are taking longer here to fully adjudicate their budgets and their plans for this year and then to begin to release that. But I think it's only a matter of time.

他們不必一定要讓某些開發人員坐在澤西市，然後以每小時非常昂貴的價格計費。他們對這些事情的思維正在改變。所以這方面確實正在發生變化。但我也想再次強調，客戶要更久的時間，才能把今年的預算與計畫完整定案，然後開始釋出。不過我認為這只是時間早晚的問題。

There is AI insertion in our clients' enterprise architecture, and then there's AI insertion in our own services that we have to do to stay competitive, cost competitive, for our clients. And everything Ted said is correct. We made a big investment in Mexico. He talked about all that we've seen since we've done that and the growth of our Mexican Development Center. But we're now implementing better techniques, AI techniques with which to code in the new languages, the modern language and the large languages.

AI正在被導入我們客戶的企業架構中，同時AI也必須被導入我們自身的服務中，才能在競爭上、成本上對客戶保持競爭力。Ted說的都正確。我們在墨西哥做了很大的投資。他談到了我們投資後所看到的一切，以及墨西哥開發中心的成長。但我們現在也在導入更好的技術、AI技術，用來以新語言、現代語言以及大型語言進行程式開發。

So the fact that our Mexican center is moving out in these AI adoption and these AI techniques makes us even more competitive in Mexico. And it's interesting, our clients are asking about that. They want to talk about that and understand that, which I think is a good sign for us that we're on the right path, not just because we have the center, but we're keeping the center up to date with the latest technologies, which makes them more efficient for our clients.

因此，我們的墨西哥中心在AI採用與AI技術方面持續向前，讓我們在墨西哥更具競爭力。而且很有意思的是，我們的客戶也在詢問這些。他們想要討論並理解這些，我認為這對我們是個好跡象，代表我們走在正確的路上；不只是因為我們有這個中心，而是我們也讓中心跟上最新技術，讓它對客戶而言更有效率。

That's helpful. Thank you. And then maybe I'll just sneak one more in on capital allocation here that the free cash flow is really great here and it's great to see the share buybacks. Just wondering, it feels like I know I heard Marie say that the market wasn't that good for M&A right now. Is it just -- are you seeing targets not really wanting to kind of sell down here or what is the dynamic there because, it feels like it might be a nice time to do some bolt-ons. Thanks a lot, guys.

這很有幫助。謝謝。接著我想再偷問一題關於資本配置：你們的自由現金流非常亮眼，也很高興看到你們回購股票。我只是想問，感覺我聽到Marie說目前併購市場不太好。這是——你們看到標的在這個時點不太願意出售嗎？還是背後的動態是什麼？因為感覺這可能是做一些補強型併購（bolt-ons）的好時機。非常感謝，各位。

You want me to take it? So Joe, so I think that -- you're right. I mean, we would love to be allocating capital right now to strategic acquisition opportunities. I think it's the dearth of opportunities and the real quality opportunities in the market right now. But we're -- we have a very defined shopping list, if you will.

要我來回答嗎？Joe，我想——你說得對。我的意思是，我們當然很希望現在能把資本配置到策略性收購機會上。我認為問題在於目前市場上機會稀少，尤其是真正高品質的機會。不過我們——如果你願意這麼說的話——我們有一份非常明確的採購清單。

We know what we can fulfill and invest in organically. We know what we would like to invest in inorganically to support all the things that Rand was mentioning here earlier around what our clients are thinking about. And that's going to take just a better flow, which means a little bit more time.

我們知道哪些需求可以透過有機方式來滿足並投資。我們也知道哪些領域希望透過非有機方式投資，以支援Rand先前提到、客戶正在思考的各項事情。而這需要更好的案源流入，也就意味著需要多一點時間。

And there's all kinds of underlying reasons, whether it's private equity still holding on tight and not quite ready to trade assets because of valuations, where the debt markets are, and a whole bunch of other things. But we kind of remain committed here.

背後有各種原因，像是私募股權仍然抓得很緊，因為估值因素還沒準備好交易資產；以及債務市場的狀況，還有一大堆其他因素。但我們在這裡仍然會持續投入並保持承諾。

We're just going to be ready. And in the meantime, we're going to stay focused on share repurchases, which you've seen us do and our Board is supporting wholeheartedly, and we'll kind of watch and measure this out.

我們只是會做好準備。同時，我們會持續專注於股票回購，你也看到我們一直在做，而我們的董事會也全力支持；我們會持續觀察並衡量後續發展。

Great. Thanks a lot, guys, much appreciate it.

很好。非常感謝，各位，十分感激。

Thank you. Andre Childress, Baird.

謝謝。Andre Childress，Baird。

Hey, this is Andre on for Mark Marcon. Thank you for taking our questions. So my first question is just a follow-up to something Rand said earlier about some of the green shoots on the consulting side. It sounds like your clients in general have road maps that they want to execute on. But based on your conversations with those clients, what needs to change in the environment for them to actually unleash some of those RFPs and execute on those road maps?

嗨，我是Andre，代替Mark Marcon提問。謝謝你們回答我們的問題。我的第一個問題是追問Rand先前提到顧問業務出現一些復甦跡象。聽起來你們的客戶整體而言都有想要執行的路線圖。但根據你們與這些客戶的對話，環境需要出現什麼改變，他們才會真正釋出一些RFP並執行那些路線圖？

Rand, you want to follow up on that?

Rand，你要補充回答一下嗎？

Yeah. I mean, our thesis has been, ever since we've been a public company, that IT spend's a function of corporate earnings. So I think when companies feel like their corporate earnings are secure and then they have good runway ahead, they're going to spend more on IT. Ted, I think we would say our hope is that what we saw from the consumer industrial side of our sectors and the healthcare providers as well as the TMT segment, that they're feeling more secure and they're going to start spending more. We saw that sequentially.

好。我的意思是，我們的論點一直是——自從我們成為上市公司以來——IT支出是企業獲利的函數。所以我認為，當公司覺得其企業獲利是穩固的，而且前方有良好的成長跑道時，他們就會在IT上花更多錢。Ted，我想我們會說，我們的希望是：從我們產業組合中的消費與工業端、醫療服務提供者，以及TMT（科技、媒體與電信）板塊所看到的情況來看，他們正感到更有把握，並將開始增加支出。我們已經看到這種情況在環比上出現。

That's a small data point, it's not conclusive. But I think it all goes back to corporate earnings and the security they feel about that.

那只是個小數據點，並不具決定性。但我認為一切都回到企業獲利，以及他們對此所感受到的安全感。

Ted, do you want to add to that?

Ted，你想補充一下嗎？

That's great.

太好了。

Makes a lot of sense. Thanks for that. And then I guess switching over to margins, you guys did a fantastic job at preserving your margins, even considering the mix shifts and you guys talked about your here, natural or automatic stabilizers, but how should we think about margins for 2024? Should we expect them to be relatively steady as the stabilizers continue to kick in? Or is there anything to call out for the full year?

很有道理。謝謝你的說明。接著我想切換到毛利率，你們在維持毛利率方面做得非常出色，即使考量到組合變動，而且你們也談到所謂的自然或自動穩定器；那我們該如何看待 2024 年的毛利率？隨著這些穩定器持續發揮作用，我們是否應預期毛利率大致維持穩定？或者全年有沒有什麼需要特別指出的？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Marie?

Marie？

Yeah. So I'm kind of be implied in our guidance for Q1, our cash SG&A margins about 18%. And so as we think about the full year of 2024, that's probably a pretty good run rate, if you will from a margin perspective.

是的。所以在我們對第一季的指引中，其實已隱含了我們的現金 SG&A（銷售、一般及行政）費用率約 18%。因此，當我們看 2024 全年時，從費用率的角度來看，這大概是一個相當不錯的常態水準（run rate）。

During the first quarter of the payroll tax reset, right, that's going to influence that a little higher. But look, I mean, our SG&A margins here have been fairly consistent outside of the first quarter. So the growth for this year, I think they were kind of right at the adjusted for below-the-line stuff, just over 17% and you should expect about the same thing, Andre.

第一季會有薪資稅重置，對吧，這會讓費用率稍微偏高一些。但你看，我們這裡的 SG&A 費用率，除了第一季之外，一直都相當一致。所以今年的水準，我認為在調整掉損益表下方項目後，大概略高於 17%，你應該也可以預期差不多的水準，Andre。

Perfect. Thank you so much, and thank you for answering the questions.

完美。非常感謝，也謝謝你們回答問題。

Thank you. Seth Weber, Wells Fargo.

謝謝。下一位是 Wells Fargo 的 Seth Weber。

Hi, this is John on for Seth. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe if we could just talk a little bit more about TMT. It sounds like the cyber efforts have been bearing fruit, and maybe if you could just give us more information about kind of the cross-pollination between kind of the federal side and the commercial side with cyber and maybe what clients are looking for as we enter the new year? Thanks.

嗨，我是 John，代 Seth 提問。謝謝讓我提問。也許我們可以再多談一點 TMT。聽起來你們在資安方面的努力已經開始有成果；能否再多分享一些，關於資安在聯邦端與商業端之間的交叉帶動（cross-pollination），以及在進入新的一年時客戶在尋找什麼？謝謝。

(inaudible) Well, I'll start. I think the man on the street would say the federal government is probably stronger cybersecurity and protection of our systems and our data than more in the commercial segment. If you look at the past years, there have been breaches of commercial -- big commercial companies. So I guess I'm laying the groundwork here for the federal government has great quals and great track record on cybersecurity. Our ECS team has had great quals and great in cybersecurity for some very important agencies in the federal government.

(聽不清) 好，我先說。我想一般人會認為，聯邦政府在網路安全以及對我們系統與資料的保護方面，可能比商業領域更強。如果你看過去幾年，商業端——大型商業公司——曾發生過資安外洩事件。所以我先鋪陳一下：聯邦政府在網路安全方面具備很好的資質與很好的紀錄。我們的 ECS 團隊也具備很好的資質，並且在聯邦政府一些非常重要的機構中，網路安全方面有很好的表現。

That's transferable to the commercial sector. And I think when we take our technologies over and our center over to them, it's resonating with them because of that backdrop that I just mentioned. So I would say it's simple as that, okay?

這些能力是可以移轉到商業領域的。而且我認為，當我們把技術與我們的中心帶給他們時，基於我剛提到的背景，他們的反應很正面、很有共鳴。所以我會說，就這麼簡單，好嗎？

Great. Thanks. And then maybe a quick follow-up on Creative Circle. Could you just comment on any trends you're seeing in the digital marketing space? Essentially, any kind of views on the outlook in terms of '24 given the election year. And I think we should be cognizant of, thanks.

很好。謝謝。接著想快速追問一下 Creative Circle。你能否評論一下你們在數位行銷領域看到的任何趨勢？基本上，鑑於 2024 是選舉年，對於 2024 年的展望你們有什麼看法？以及我們應該注意哪些事項？謝謝。

Rand?

Rand？

It's funny. I just got off of a call with the CMO of one -- of a company, a Fortune 1000 company, a couple of hours ago. And it was interesting to talk to him. I think, first of all, CMOs are also being held tight in their spend as a function of corporate earnings and also depending on what their market position is. But I think that talks to the marketplace that our Creative Circle plays in.

很有意思。我就在幾個小時前，才剛跟一家——一家《財富》1000 大公司的 CMO 通完電話。跟他聊很有意思。我想首先，CMO 的支出也被嚴格控管，這取決於企業獲利，也取決於他們的市場地位。但我認為，這也反映了我們 Creative Circle 所處的市場。

It is clear that some of the bread-and-butter kinds of things, like creating or being creative, is still a part of our great service. Translating that through AI, AI allows you to mass produce it or to personalize it. And I think there are technologies there that we're well aware of that we're talking to our clients about imposing. There's also the whole question of which channels do I use to get my message out there and to make it personal, and do I have to give it to multiple mediums for that one client. So there's a lot of opportunity out there.

很明顯，一些基本盤的事情，例如內容創作或創意產出，仍然是我們優質服務的一部分。透過 AI 來轉化這件事，AI 讓你可以大量產出，或進行個人化。而我認為在這方面有一些技術我們非常了解，也正在跟客戶討論如何導入。另外還有一個大問題：我該用哪些渠道把訊息傳出去並做到個人化？而且針對同一位客戶，我是否必須投放到多種媒體形式？所以外面有很多機會。

I think they're all trying to work their way through it and understand it and figure out the best path. I think you can see that in some of the reportings from technology companies. In some cases the ad dollars are up, in some cases they're not.

我認為大家都在努力摸索、理解，並找出最佳路徑。你也可以從一些科技公司的報告中看到這點。有些情況下廣告預算在增加，有些情況下則沒有。

The whole streaming world is changing and how they're charging for whether you want streaming with advertisement or without advertisement. So there is a lot going on in the marketing world that has to be digested and recalculated, if you will.

整個串流世界正在改變，以及他們對於你要看「有廣告」或「無廣告」的串流內容，收費方式如何調整。所以行銷世界有很多事情正在發生，需要被消化並重新計算（如果你願意這麼說）。

And I think we're going to see a plethora of opportunity once we get past when companies feel that they're on a good solid footing and they can move forward. As I said before, in consumer and utilities, and in certain media companies, they're starting to get there.

而我認為，一旦我們度過企業覺得自己站穩腳步、可以向前推進的那個階段，我們將會看到大量的機會。如我先前所說，在消費與公用事業，以及某些媒體公司，他們正開始走到那一步。

Great color. Thank you again.

資訊很有幫助。再次感謝。

Thank you. Surinder Thind, Jefferies.

謝謝。下一位是 Jefferies 的 Surinder Thind。

Thank you. Just a big picture question here in terms of the delivery model as you continue to build out the commercial consulting part of the business. Can you maybe talk about that, how you're thinking about headcount growth versus the use of temporary resources in terms of delivering those projects.

謝謝。我想問一個比較宏觀的問題：在你們持續擴建商業顧問業務的同時，關於交付模式（delivery model）。你能否談談你們如何看待人頭（headcount）成長，與在交付這些專案時使用臨時資源之間的取捨？

And the reason I ask that is just from a competitive positioning perspective in the sense that you talked earlier about investing in kind of building out your talent pool. But if a large percentage of your delivery is not owned by you guys, how do you guys manage that?

我之所以這麼問，是從競爭定位的角度來看：你們先前提到會投資、擴充你們的人才庫。但如果你們交付端有很大比例不是由你們自有的人力來完成，你們要如何管理？

Well, look, Surinder, first of all, we've got -- today, 600-plus feet on the street with relationships directly into these Fortune 1000 enterprises. And it's that group that have had these client relationships from the traditional IT staffing business all the way through all of the customer's IT business, including consulting. So that doesn't change. And -- we don't need to build that up, if you will. We just need to address client opportunities.

嗯，Surinder，你看，首先，我們目前有 600 多位一線人員，直接與這些《財富》1000 大企業建立關係。而正是這群人，從傳統 IT 人力派遣業務一路到客戶整體 IT 業務（包含顧問服務），都建立了客戶關係。所以這點不會改變。而且——如果你願意這麼說——我們不需要再去把這塊建得更大。我們只需要去承接並回應客戶機會。

And so if it takes a little more, we can obviously scale into that and always have. On the consulting side, as we put project teams together -- and again, you note our delivery model is a little different. I mean, we have about 80% to 85% of our team members on these projects come from our contingent workforce, our IT staffing capabilities. And then we've got a very smart solution-oriented with industry expertise team on the top, which are helping architect the solutions to meet the industry need of the customer. And that's working just great.

因此如果需要更多資源，我們當然可以擴張到位，而且一直以來都是如此。在顧問端，當我們組建專案團隊時——你也提到我們的交付模式有點不同。我的意思是，這些專案上大約有 80% 到 85% 的團隊成員，來自我們的派遣人力（contingent workforce），也就是我們的 IT 人力派遣能力。然後在上層我們有一支非常聰明、以解決方案為導向且具備產業專長的團隊，協助架構解決方案，以符合客戶的產業需求。而這樣的模式運作得非常好。

And so it will continue to build, but I think our model is going to be here that we're definitely, on project teams, going to bring our contingent labor to bear on it, because they are a more perfect fit. They're in the right place at the right price point with a more perfect skill set, the right industry experience, and so we can craft that in every team as we go here.

因此它會持續擴展，但我認為我們的模式會是：我們在專案團隊上一定會把我們的派遣人力投入其中，因為他們更為契合。他們在正確的地點、以合適的價格點，具備更匹配的技能組合與正確的產業經驗，因此我們可以在每個團隊推進時把這些要素都打造進去。

So that's been a winning proposition for our customer and the all-in cost of that is really competitive. And you can see that we win work not only because of our price point, but also the expertise we bring to bear. So we're going to stay the course there.

所以這對我們的客戶而言一直是個成功的主張，而且其整體成本非常有競爭力。你也可以看到，我們贏得案子不僅因為價格點，還因為我們所帶來並能落地的專業能力。因此我們會持續沿著這條路走下去。

Excellent. And then in terms of just, I guess, following up on the price point question here. How much of a difference is there between what you're able to bill for your consulting services versus the staffing services? I assume -- is it material at this point? How should we think about the difference?

很好。接著就價格點這個問題再追問一下。你們在顧問服務的可開立費率，與人力派遣服務相比，差異有多大？我假設——目前這差異是否顯著？我們應該如何看待這個差異？

And then maybe just some commentary on kind of the bill rate trends, I guess, at this point, in terms of how that maybe trended over '23 and what your outlook for '24 is?

另外也想請你們評論一下目前的開立費率趨勢：例如在 2023 年的走勢，以及你們對 2024 年的展望？

Well, for sure, the bill rate is better and it's evidenced by the fact we can get a better margin, right? So we tell you that our margin in consulting is 300 or 400 basis points better than what we get in IT staffing. And it is because we're taking on some responsibility here for a certain amount of life or deliverables or milestones. And so from that, we're able to get a better bill rate. I mean, there's no question about that.

當然，開立費率確實更好，這也反映在我們能取得更好的毛利率，對吧？所以我們告訴各位，我們顧問業務的毛利率比 IT 派遣高 300 到 400 個基點。原因在於我們在這裡承擔了某種程度的責任，例如某段生命週期、交付成果或里程碑。因此我們能取得更好的開立費率。這點毫無疑問。

And what was the second part of your question, Surinder, I'm sorry --

Surinder，不好意思，你問題的第二部分是什麼來著？——

In terms of the outlook for '24 pricing in the conversations that you're having with clients and I mean, are clients asking for better rates? Are you able to kind of hold steady or is or as you talked about clients wanting to do more AI projects that you can maybe use that to your advantage to maybe get a little bit better rate because those are harder skill sets to hire?

就 2024 年定價展望而言，在你們與客戶的對話中——我的意思是，客戶是否在要求更好的費率？你們能否大致維持穩定？或者如你所說，客戶想做更多 AI 專案，你們是否能利用這點取得一些優勢，因為那些技能更難招募，所以能拿到更好的費率？

Well, look, I think anytime it's a harder skill set to find we can get a better rate and it doesn't matter whether it's in and get out of it is drilling the solution orientation right. If it's a higher end solution orientation, we can get a better rate.

我想只要是更難找到的技能組合，我們就能拿到更好的費率；不管是進出場的安排，關鍵在於解決方案導向是否到位。如果是更高階的解決方案導向，我們就能拿到更好的費率。

So all that stands, Pat, our margins, our markups, if you will, have been pretty steady here in our bill rates are slightly rising, and I think that is part and parcel with the mix of more consultative work that we're doing it. And yes, the more work we do in AI hear the units that will only support and improve those.

因此，Pat，整體而言，我們的毛利率、加價幅度（如果你要這麼稱呼）一直相當穩定，而我們的開立費率也在小幅上升；我認為這與我們正在做更多顧問型工作的組合變化是一體兩面。而且是的，我們在 AI 上做得越多，這些單位經濟只會支撐並改善上述表現。

Got it. So I apologize if I didn't ask the question. I wasn't referring to the mix. I was actually referring to the actual apples to apples comparison of what you could charge for a certain level of engineer in '23 versus what you think you maybe are able to charge them in '24?

了解。如果我剛剛沒有把問題問清楚，我先道歉。我不是在指組合。我其實是指同條件（apples to apples）的比較：例如 2023 年某個等級的工程師你們能收多少，對比你們認為 2024 年可能能收多少？

Yeah. We're not seeing a trend that is down. I mean I expect the typically will get a slight increase in our bill rates year over year I would expect it in '24 versus '23, we don't see anything underlying that the telesales different, right now.

是的。我們沒有看到下滑的趨勢。我的意思是，我預期我們的開立費率通常會逐年小幅上升；我預期 2024 年相較 2023 年會略增。我們目前沒有看到任何底層因素顯示情況會不同。

(multiple speakers) Keep in mind, as our consulting business grows and grows, it's cost per job, not cost per hour; in staffing it's cost per hour. And there are built in escalators to bill rates and there are exceptions to the bill rates depending on skill types, the status of availability of skills, importance of projects.

（多位發言者）請記住，隨著我們的顧問業務愈做愈大，它是按「每個案子成本」而不是「每小時成本」；而派遣是按每小時成本。開立費率內建有調升條款（escalators），也會因技能類型、技能供給可得性、專案重要性等因素而對費率做例外處理。

But a lot of what you're asking applies more to staffing, where bill rates for an individual hour are highly discussed. And it's consulting, as that grows with us, it's just discussing what the cost of the job is and what are the benefits associated with that.

但你問的很多內容更適用於派遣，因為派遣的每小時費率會被高度討論。而顧問業務隨著我們成長，討論的重點是整個案子的成本是多少，以及與之相關的效益是什麼。

But just, I guess maybe to help me clarify. I just want to make sure I don't misinterpret that comment. Is that implying that you're doing a lot more fixed-price projects because generally, most consulting firms do not want to do fixed-price projects. They want to bill by the hour or so you have engineering --

不過，為了幫我釐清一下。我只是想確保我沒有誤解那段話。那是否意味著你們正在做更多固定價格（fixed-price）專案？因為一般而言，多數顧問公司不太想做固定價格專案。他們想按小時計費，或者你們有工程——

(multiple speakers) does not imply that, but the cost, the conversations with the clients start around what's the total cost of doing taking on this job when we you can build it by looking at a time and material type work, we can build it by time and material. But the ultimate conversation decisions for anti-competitive choices around the cost and the risks associated with delivering that were and we have the benefit of that work.

（多位發言者）那並不代表那樣；但與客戶的對話會從「承接這個案子的總成本是多少」開始。我們可以用工時與材料（time and material）類型的工作來估算，也可以按工時與材料來建模。但最終的對話與決策，會圍繞成本以及交付所伴隨的風險；而我們能從這項工作中受益。

Got it. Thank you.

了解。謝謝。

Thank you. Heather Balsky, Bank of America.

謝謝。下一位是美國銀行（Bank of America）的 Heather Balsky。

Hi, this is Emily Marzo on for Heather Balsky. I was wondering if you could talk to us about what you're seeing in permanent staffing and what was the percentage of sales you saw for (inaudible) staffing this quarter? Thank you.

你好，我是 Emily Marzo，代替 Heather Balsky 發言。我想請問你們能否談談你們在永久派遣（permanent staffing）方面看到的情況，以及本季（聽不清）派遣的銷售占比是多少？謝謝。

Hello, hello. So yes, for the fourth quarter, we actually permitted a percent of total revenue was 2.4%.

你好，你好。是的，就第四季而言，我們永久派遣占總營收的比例是 2.4%。

And I think what you're seeing there, Heather, again, it's very steady. I mean I would say it's at a historic low percent of the mix, and there's really no change, if you will, from the third to the fourth, or our expectation here for the first quarter is in similar ranges.

我想你在那裡看到的情況，Heather，再次強調，是非常穩定的。我的意思是，我會說它在組合中處於歷史低位，而且從第三季到第四季基本沒有變化；我們對第一季的預期也在相近的區間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. And we have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I'll now turn the call back over to Ted Hanson for closing remarks.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。接下來我把電話交回給 Ted Hanson 做結語。

Great, Well, I appreciate everyone's attention here today for the rate release of our fourth quarter and the Q&A that follow that we look forward to being with you very soon to discuss our first-quarter 2024 results.

很好。感謝各位今天的關注，聆聽我們第四季的財報發布以及隨後的問答。我們也期待很快再與各位見面，討論我們 2024 年第一季的業績結果。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束，您現在可以掛線。感謝您的參與。