Emerald Holding Inc (EEX) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Emerald Holding, Inc. Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions). As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Emerald Holding, Inc. 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）。提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中。

Before we begin, let me remind everyone that this call will include certain statements that constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These include remarks about future expectations, beliefs, estimates, plans and prospects.

在我們開始之前，讓我提醒大家，本次電話會議將包括構成1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性陳述的某些陳述。其中包括有關未來預期、信念、估計、計劃和前景的評論。

In particular, the company's statements about projected results for 2023 are forward-looking statements. Such statements are subject to a variety of risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those indicated or implied by such statements. Such risks and other factors are set forth in the company's most recently filed periodic reports on Form 10-K and Form 10-Q and subsequent filings. The company does not undertake any duty to update such forward-looking statements.

特別是，該公司有關 2023 年預計業績的陳述屬於前瞻性陳述。此類陳述受到各種風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，這些因素可能導致實際結果與此類陳述所顯示或暗示的結果有重大差異。此類風險和其他因素在公司最近提交的 10-K 表格和 10-Q 表格定期報告以及後續文件中列出。本公司不承擔更新此類前瞻性陳述的任何義務。

Additionally, during today's call, management will discuss non-GAAP measures, which it believes can be useful in evaluating the company's performance. The presentation of this additional information should not be considered in isolation or as a substitute for results prepared in accordance with U.S. GAAP. The reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to the most comparable GAAP measure can be found in the company's earnings release.

此外，在今天的電話會議上，管理層將討論非公認會計準則衡量標準，他們認為這些衡量標準有助於評估公司的表現。不應孤立地考慮此附加資訊的呈現，也不應將其視為根據美國公認會計原則準備的結果的替代品。這些非公認會計準則衡量標準與最具可比性的公認會計準則衡量標準的調節可以在公司的收益報告中找到。

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded, and a replay of this call will be available on the Investors section of the company's website through 11:59 p.m. Eastern Time on November 13, 2023.

謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中，本次電話會議的重播將於晚上 11:59 之前在公司網站的投資者部分提供。東部時間 2023 年 11 月 13 日。

I'd now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Herve Sedky, President and Chief Executive Officer. Sir, please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給總裁兼執行長 Herve Sedky 先生。先生，請繼續。

Well, thank you, Kevin, and good morning, everyone. It's great to be with all of you today to discuss our third quarter results. I'll start with a review of our year-to-date performance and then give an overview of our strategy, focus on our growth pillars, customer centricity, 365-day engagement and portfolio optimization. David Doft, our CFO, will then provide more detail on our financials.

好吧，謝謝你，凱文，大家早安。很高興今天與大家一起討論我們的第三季業績。我將首先回顧我們今年迄今的業績，然後概述我們的策略，重點關注我們的成長支柱、以客戶為中心、365 天參與度和投資組合優化。我們的財務長 David Doft 隨後將提供有關我們財務狀況的更多詳細資訊。

Starting with live events. We continue to see significant year-over-year growth in both revenue and profitability driven by increases in exhibitors, attendees and pricing. As a highly diversified and scaled platform, Emerald continues to benefit from post-COVID tailwinds, including the removal of international travel restrictions with some attendees just beginning to return to shows this year as well as improvements in our customers' supply chains.

從現場活動開始。我們繼續看到，在參展商、與會者和定價增加的推動下，收入和獲利能力較去年同期大幅成長。作為一個高度多元化和規模化的平台，Emerald 繼續受益於新冠疫情後的順風車，包括取消國際旅行限制，一些與會者今年剛開始重返展會，以及我們客戶供應鏈的改善。

We've implemented on-site prebooking at most of our trade shows, which means we're already selling exhibitor space for next year's edition. Our sales pacing data gives us high granular view and deliver trends up to a year out. This gives us a great deal of confidence in our growth plan for 2024, where we project continued increases in our exhibitor count and revenue above our industry's historical run rate.

我們在大多數貿易展覽會上都實施了現場預訂，這意味著我們已經在出售明年展會的參展空間。我們的銷售節奏數據為我們提供了高度精細的視野並提供長達一年的趨勢。這讓我們對 2024 年的成長計畫充滿信心，預計參展商數量和收入將持續成長，高於產業歷史運作率。

On-site prebook also frees up our sales force to pursue new business rather than chasing renewals. In this market environment, we believe our forward visibility is a highly valuable feature of our business, along with our free cash flow generation and operating leverage, which we believe should enable us to achieve EBITDA margins of approximately 35% within the next 3 years.

現場預訂也使我們的銷售人員能夠騰出時間來追求新業務，而不是追逐續約。在這種市場環境下，我們相信我們的前瞻性視野以及我們的自由現金流生成和營運槓桿是我們業務的一個非常有價值的特徵，我們相信這將使我們在未來3 年內實現約35% 的EBITDA 利潤率。

Our trade show business is also more resilient to changes in broader market dynamics due to our business mix. We have greater exposure to long-term secular growth areas and we're less resilient -- reliant on standard marketing budgets compared to other industry players. The strength and resilience of our business comes from the unique and measurable value we bring to our customers, who are themselves business owners looking to maximize the value that they get from their mark-to-marketing budgets.

由於我們的業務組合，我們的貿易展覽業務也更能適應更廣泛的市場動態的變化。與其他行業參與者相比，我們對長期長期成長領域的投資更大，但彈性較差——依賴標準行銷預算。我們業務的實力和彈性來自於我們為客戶帶來的獨特且可衡量的價值，客戶本身就是企業主，希望從行銷預算中獲得最大價值。

Trade shows provide a tangible ROI to exhibitors in the form of purchase orders. For nearly half of small businesses in the U.S. that participate in at least 1 trade show per year, trade shows are their #1 selling events of the year. A big part of our ongoing efforts has been to clarify this value proposition and make the ROI more transparent by developing value-add tools and metrics, which we believe will deliver an even better trade show experience to both exhibitors and attendees.

貿易展覽以採購訂單的形式為參展商提供實際的投資回報。對於每年至少參加一次貿易展的美國近一半小型企業來說，貿易展是他們一年中排名第一的銷售活動。我們持續努力的一個重要部分是澄清這一價值主張，並透過開發增值工具和指標使投資回報率更加透明，我們相信這將為參展商和與會者提供更好的貿易展體驗。

The result is that our customers view our shows as an investment rather than a cost. They know we understand them, and they know our objective is to help them achieve and even surpass the goals they have set for themselves.

結果是我們的客戶將我們的演出視為投資而不是成本。他們知道我們理解他們，他們知道我們的目標是幫助他們實現甚至超越他們為自己設定的目標。

Moving now to our third quarter results. While David will speak to our financials in more detail, as a headline, our third quarter revenue was $72.5 million compared to the $62.4 million in the prior quarter, even with approximately $5 million of revenue shifting out of the quarter due to the timing of events during the year.

現在來看我們的第三季業績。雖然大衛將更詳細地談論我們的財務數據，但作為標題，我們第三季度的收入為7250 萬美元，而上一季為6240 萬美元，儘管由於事件發生的時間安排，大約500 萬美元的收入轉移到了本季之外年內。

In July, as we previously announced, we hosted the inaugural edition of NBA Con, a first of its kind fan event that Emerald hosted in collaboration with the National Basketball Association. We're pleased with the execution and attendance at the event, which required some upfront launch investments. We expect to build on our NBA partnership in future years.

正如我們之前宣布的，我們在 7 月舉辦了第一屆 NBA Con 活動，這是 Emerald 與美國國家籃球協會合作的首次此類球迷活動。我們對活動的執行和出席感到滿意，這需要一些前期啟動投資。我們期望在未來幾年繼續鞏固我們與 NBA 的合作夥伴關係。

In September, we had another successful event launch with the inaugural addition of Cocina Sabrosa in Irving, Texas, a trade show focused on the Latin food and beverage industry. We identified the Latin food market as an industry that despite being a large and fast-growing category in the U.S. did not have a national trade show serving wholesalers, retailers and restaurants. The Cocina Sabrosa show is indicative of the types of new event launches that we're focusing on underserved markets with high growth supported by long-term consumer and business trends.

九月份，我們又成功舉辦了另一場活動，在德克薩斯州歐文首次舉辦了 Cocina Sabrosa，這是一個專注於拉丁食品和飲料行業的貿易展。我們認為拉丁食品市場是一個儘管在美國規模龐大且成長迅速的行業，但沒有為批發商、零售商和餐廳提供服務的全國性貿易展。 Cocina Sabrosa 展會顯示了我們重點關注服務不足、在長期消費者和商業趨勢支持下實現高成長的市場推出的新活動類型。

Just a few weeks ago, we also hosted the second iteration of Advertising Week New York, since acquiring the business in June 2022. It was our 20th edition and delivered their largest attendee levels in its history. At the event, I was joined on a panel by the Chief Marketing Officer of Delta and the CEO of Melia USA; where we highlighted the value of and the ROI inherent in live events across variety of industries. It was validating to hear from other executive level marketing leaders about the value that they place on face-to-face meetings and the continued importance of prioritizing these types of events in their marketing budgets each year.

就在幾週前，我們還舉辦了自 2022 年 6 月收購該業務以來的第二屆紐約廣告週。這是我們的第 20 屆活動，其參與人數達到了歷史最高水平。在這次活動中，我與達美航空首席行銷長和美利亞美國公司執行長一起參加了小組討論；我們強調了跨產業現場活動的價值和投資報酬率。從其他高階主管級別的行銷領導者那裡聽到他們對面對面會議的重視以及每年在行銷預算中優先考慮這些類型的活動的持續重要性，這是很有效的。

While the Live Events business remains strong, we're seeing some softness in our content business, primarily within the technology sector. As a reminder, our Content business represents approximately 10% of our revenues in a given year. Our content serving the technology sector is more exposed to the ad spending cycle, which has felt the effects of a pullback in tech ad spend this year, as noted by many companies in the sector. This impacted our third quarter and will impact our fourth quarter as well.

雖然現場活動業務仍然強勁，但我們發現內容業務有些疲軟，主要是在科技領域。提醒一下，我們的內容業務約占我們特定年份收入的 10%。我們為科技業提供服務的內容更容易受到廣告支出週期的影響，正如該行業的許多公司所指出的那樣，今年科技廣告支出的縮減已經受到了影響。這影響了我們的第三季度，也將影響我們的第四季。

That said, we strongly believe in the long-term synergies between our Content business and our core trade shows. Our media assets allow us to advertise and cross-sell Emerald's own events and to maintain year-round engagement with our customers as we serve as the go-to source for business news and trends in each respective industry. We remain optimistic about the longer-range prospects for content, especially given the strong new leadership team that we have put in place over the last 12 months. We also expect to see the advertising environment stabilize in 2024. However, the near-term headwinds in ad spends are presenting some risk as we expect a low single-digit percentage impact to our full year 2023 guidance as a result, which David will discuss in more detail in a moment.

也就是說，我們堅信我們的內容業務和核心貿易展覽之間的長期協同效應。我們的媒體資產使我們能夠宣傳和交叉銷售 Emerald 自己的活動，並與客戶保持全年互動，因為我們是各個行業商業新聞和趨勢的首選來源。我們對內容的長期前景保持樂觀，特別是考慮到我們在過去 12 個月中組建了強大的新領導團隊。我們也預期廣告環境將在2024 年趨於穩定。然而，廣告支出的近期逆風帶來了一些風險，因為我們預計這將對我們2023 年全年指導產生較低的個位數百分比影響，大衛將對此進行討論稍後會更詳細地介紹。

Looking ahead, we remain focused on our 3 pillars of value creation, customer centricity, 365-day engagement and portfolio optimization. In customer centricity, we're focused on delivering greater value to customers in the form of add-on services, actual data and insights, and a clear picture of the return on investment they receive from the marketing dollars they put to work across Emerald's platform. They -- this improves our stickiness with customers, incentivizes them to deploy more marketing dollars with Emerald and ultimately should help derive higher revenue for customer.

展望未來，我們仍專注於價值創造、以客戶為中心、365 天參與和投資組合優化這三大支柱。以客戶為中心，我們專注於以附加服務、實際數據和見解的形式為客戶提供更大的價值，並清楚地了解他們從在 Emerald 平台上投入的營銷資金中獲得的投資回報。他們——這提高了我們對客戶的黏性，激勵他們在 Emerald 上投入更多的行銷資金，最終應該有助於為客戶帶來更高的收入。

Our second pillar, the 365-day engagement is about providing multiple entry points to the customer engagement cycle through trade shows, conferences, webinars, media content and our e-commerce platform, which gives buyers and sellers a digital platform for year-round selling.

我們的第二個支柱，365 天參與是透過貿易展、會議、網路研討會、媒體內容和我們的電子商務平台為客戶參與週期提供多個切入點，為買家和賣家提供全年銷售的數字平台。

Our third pillar is portfolio optimization, which includes both acquisitions and new event launches. Over time, we expect new event launches through our Emerald Xcelerator units, such as NBA Con and Cocina Sabrosa, which I discussed, to contribute 1 to 2 percentage points of annual revenue growth.

我們的第三個支柱是投資組合優化，包括收購和新活動的推出。隨著時間的推移，我們預計透過 Emerald Xcelerator 單元推出的新活動（例如我討論過的 NBA Con 和 Cocina Sabrosa）將貢獻 1 到 2 個百分點的年收入成長。

On the acquisition side, we continue to evaluate a large pool of potential acquisitions with the ability to bring Emerald scale and operational efficiencies to shows within a highly fragmented industry. This includes some smaller near-term opportunities in the active pipeline that we're working hard to get to the finish line.

在收購方面，我們繼續評估大量潛在收購，這些收購能夠在高度分散的行業中為展會帶來 Emerald 的規模和營運效率。這包括我們正在努力完成的活躍管道中的一些較小的近期機會。

To conclude, our 2023 results continue to track generally in line with our expectations despite some softness in parts of our content business. We're especially excited to look ahead to 2024 and beyond, where we'll continue to demonstrate our free cash flow generation and compounding abilities as we grow attendance and revenues, expand margins and continue to realize the benefits of our recent investments into our technology and data systems that deliver greater and greater value to our customers every year that they return to our shows.

總而言之，儘管我們的部分內容業務有些疲軟，但我們 2023 年的業績繼續總體符合我們的預期。我們特別興奮地展望 2024 年及以後，隨著我們增加參觀人數和收入、擴大利潤並繼續實現我們最近對技術投資的好處，我們將繼續展示我們的自由現金流生成和複利能力每年，我們的客戶重返我們的展會，為他們提供越來越大的價值。

With that, let me turn the call over to David Doft, our CFO.

接下來，讓我將電話轉給我們的財務長 David Doft。

Thank you, Herve, and good morning. Starting with the top line. Our third quarter revenue was $72.5 million compared to $62.4 million in the prior year quarter. The increase was driven primarily by organic revenue growth and revenue from acquisitions. Organic revenue, which takes into account the impact of acquisitions and scheduling adjustments, was $68.5 million, an increase of $12.4 million or 22.1% versus the third quarter of 2022. This reflects the continued strength of our events business and is despite the decline in our content business, reflected in the other marketing services line in our disaggregated revenue.

謝謝你，埃爾維，早安。從頂線開始。我們第三季的營收為 7,250 萬美元，而去年同期的營收為 6,240 萬美元。這一成長主要是由有機收入成長和收購收入所推動的。考慮到收購和日程調整的影響，有機收入為6,850 萬美元，與2022 年第三季相比增加了1,240 萬美元，即22.1%。這反映了我們的活動業務的持續強勁，儘管我們的活動業務有所下降內容業務反映在我們分類收入中的其他行銷服務線。

Year-to-date, our organic growth is 16.6%. As a reminder, the second and third quarters are seasonally slower following the busy Q1 trade show calendar. Our acquisitions have slightly shifted the seasonality dynamics compared to our historical performance and have made Q4 our second largest quarter with Q1 remaining our largest.

今年迄今為止，我們的有機成長率為 16.6%。提醒一下，在繁忙的第一季貿易展覽日曆之後，第二季和第三季的季節性放緩。與我們的歷史業績相比，我們的收購稍微改變了季節性動態，並使第四季度成為我們第二大季度，而第一季仍然是我們最大的季度。

During the third quarter, we received an additional $2.8 million of event cancellation insurance proceeds due to the settlement of our last remaining COVID-related insurance claim. Recall that last year, we also received a substantial payment from event cancellation proceeds in the third quarter. And at this point, we have no remaining claims outstanding.

第三季度，由於最後一筆與新冠肺炎相關的保險索賠得到解決，我們額外收到了 280 萬美元的活動取消保險收益。回想一下，去年第三季我們也從活動取消收益中收到了大筆款項。目前，我們沒有剩餘的未決索賠。

Third quarter adjusted EBITDA, including these proceeds, was $10.8 million or excluding the proceeds, $8.0 million. For the same quarter last year, adjusted EBITDA was $149.7 million or negative $1.3 million when excluding the $151 million of insurance proceeds received in the third quarter of 2022. Year-to-date, adjusted EBITDA, excluding insurance proceeds, is $59.1 million, an increase of 86% over the same period last year.

第三季調整後的 EBITDA（包括這些收益）為 1,080 萬美元，不包括收益為 800 萬美元。去年同一季度，調整後EBITDA 為1.497 億美元，若不包括2022 年第三季收到的1.51 億美元保險收益，調整後EBITDA 為1.497 億美元，即負130 萬美元。年初至今，調整後EBITDA（不包括保險收益）為5,910 萬美元，較去年同期成長86%。

Third quarter free cash flow, excluding insurance proceeds, was $2.7 million compared to an outflow of $0.1 million in the prior year quarter.

第三季自由現金流（不含保險收益）為 270 萬美元，去年同期流出為 10 萬美元。

Turning to expenses. Third quarter SG&A was $41.6 million versus $48.7 million in the prior year quarter, reflecting the efficacy of our cost efficiency efforts even as we have added businesses through acquisitions. Note that SG&A in the third quarter of 2022 included $7 million of insurance settlement related expenses. Even so, we're pleased with the operating leverage we achieved in the quarter.

轉向開支。第三季的銷售及管理費用為 4,160 萬美元，而去年同期為 4,870 萬美元，這反映了我們在透過收購增加業務的情況下，在成本效率方面所做努力的有效性。請注意，2022 年第三季的 SG&A 包括 700 萬美元的保險結算相關費用。即便如此，我們對本季實現的營運槓桿感到滿意。

As for the balance sheet, we had $200.3 million in cash as of September 30, 2023, versus $204.7 million as of June 30 after funding the $8.6 million dividend on our convertible preferred stock. Our total liquidity is $310.3 million, including full availability on our $110 million credit facility. We believe our balance sheet strength and cash flow generation support our ability to opportunistically invest in and grow our business. We'll continue to balance capital allocation between acquisitions, investments in our own business, managing debt leverage and opportunistic share buybacks.

至於資產負債表，截至2023 年9 月30 日，我們的現金為2.003 億美元，而在為可轉換優先股的860 萬美元股息提供資金後，截至6 月30 日，我們的現金為2.047 億美元。我們的總流動資金為 3.103 億美元，其中包括完全可用的 1.1 億美元信貸額度。我們相信，我們的資產負債表實力和現金流產生支持我們機會性投資和發展業務的能力。我們將繼續平衡收購、自身業務投資、債務槓桿管理和機會性股票回購之間的資本配置。

On that note, on Friday, our Board authorized the expansion of our share buyback program to $25 million versus the $3 million remaining on the previous authorization and the extension of the program to December 31, 2024. As of September 30, we had net debt of $214 million leading to a net leverage ratio, as defined in our credit agreement of 2.42x our trailing 12-month consolidated EBITDA based on the definition of our credit agreement of $88.5 million.

有鑑於此，週五，我們的董事會授權將我們的股票回購計劃擴大到2500 萬美元，而之前的授權還剩300 萬美元，並將該計劃延長至2024 年12 月31 日。截至9 月30 日，我們的淨債務2.14 億美元導致淨槓桿率（根據我們的信貸協議的定義）為我們過去 12 個月合併 EBITDA 的 2.42 倍（基於我們的信貸協議的定義為 8850 萬美元）。

As of July 1, the company now has the right quarter-by-quarter to choose to pay the quarterly dividend of our convertible preferred stock in cash or PIK. Prior to July 1, we were required to pay in kind. As we noted before, announced on the second quarter earnings call, given the conversion price of the convertible preferred stock of $3.52 as compared to the current share price, the independent members of our Board approved management's decision to pay the September 30 payment in cash. The total payment for the third quarter was $8.6 million, which means we avoided the issuance of 2.4 million shares on an as-converted basis. This is an option we will carefully consider in our capital allocation analysis going forward.

截至7月1日，公司現在有權按季度選擇以現金或PIK支付我們可轉換優先股的季度股息。 7 月 1 日之前，我們被要求以實物付款。正如我們之前指出的，在第二季財報電話會議上宣布，鑑於可轉換優先股的轉換價格與當前股價相比為3.52 美元，我們董事會的獨立成員批准了管理層決定在9 月30 日以現金支付。第三季的支付總額為 860 萬美元，這意味著我們避免了以轉換後的基礎發行 240 萬股股票。我們將在未來的資本配置分析中仔細考慮這個選擇。

Notably, for the fourth quarter, the independent directors on our Board have again authorized a convertible preferred dividend in December to be paid in cash, thereby minimizing dilution of our common shares.

值得注意的是，第四季度，我們董事會的獨立董事再次授權在 12 月以現金支付可轉換優先股股息，從而最大限度地減少我們普通股的稀釋。

With respect to our capital structure, an overview can be found on Slide 11 of our earnings presentation deck, factoring in 62.9 million of common shares outstanding at September 30, and an additional 139.9 million common shares represented by the convertible preferred shares as of September 30, our total share count on an as-converted basis would be $202.8 million -- excuse me, 202.8 million.

關於我們的資本結構，您可以在收益簡報的幻燈片11 中找到概覽，其中考慮了截至9 月30 日已發行的6,290 萬股普通股，以及截至9 月30 日由可轉換優先股代表的另外1.399 億股普通股。 ，以轉換後計算，我們的總股數將為 2.028 億美元 — 對不起，是 2.028 億美元。

Based on Friday's closing price, this equates to a market cap of $1.1 billion on an as-converted basis. Adding in our net debt, estimated contingent consideration of $6.8 million on our balance sheet for prior acquisitions, and a deferred tax asset worth approximately $70 million, this leads to an enterprise value of approximately $1.2 billion.

根據週五收盤價，換算後的市值相當於 11 億美元。加上我們的淨債務、資產負債表上先前收購的估計或有對價 680 萬美元，以及價值約 7,000 萬美元的遞延稅資產，企業價值約為 12 億美元。

In our full year guidance for 2023, as Herve discussed, we see modest risk to our original estimate, largely based on some weakness in our content business, resulting from a pullback in customers' ad spend in the technology sector as well as deferral of a planned new event launch into 2024. As a result, we now expect revenue for the full year to come in between $385 million and $395 million. Given the strength of our core trade show business, this guidance still reflects an increase of between 18% and 21% over last year.

正如Herve 所討論的，在我們對2023 年的全年指引中，我們認為我們最初的估計存在適度的風險，這主要是由於我們的內容業務存在一些弱點，這是由於客戶在技術領域的廣告支出減少以及計劃在 2024 年推出新活動。因此，我們現在預計全年收入將在 3.85 億美元至 3.95 億美元之間。鑑於我們核心貿易展業務的實力，該指引仍較去年增長 18% 至 21%。

We also now expect adjusted EBITDA in the range of $95 million to $100 million, reflecting continued strength and margin improvements in our overall business. Our adjusted EBITDA guidance represents an increase of between 67% and 76% over 2022 adjusted EBITDA, excluding insurance proceeds. This guidance implies an adjusted EBITDA margin of approximately 25%, and we believe we have runway to improve this number as we work our way back to the 35% plus margins we saw prior to COVID.

我們現在預計調整後的 EBITDA 將在 9,500 萬美元至 1 億美元之間，這反映了我們整體業務的持續實力和利潤率的提高。我們的調整後 EBITDA 指引值比 2022 年調整後 EBITDA 成長 67% 至 76%（不包括保險收益）。該指導意味著調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率約為 25%，我們相信，隨著我們努力恢復到新冠疫情之前的 35% 以上利潤率，我們還有機會改善這一數字。

Thank you very much for your time. And with that, we'll now open the line for questions.

非常感謝您的寶貴時間。現在，我們將開放提問熱線。

(Operator Instructions). Our first question today is coming from Barton Crockett from Rosenblatt.

（操作員說明）。我們今天的第一個問題來自羅森布拉特的巴頓克羅克特。

Okay. Great. I was curious about one other thing you guys were talking about on guidance, which was free cash flow. I think you had been formally saying that you saw a $65 million or so of free cash flow excluding working capital benefits in 2023. And I was just wondering if there's any update about that with the guidance revision here?

好的。偉大的。我對你們在指導中談論的另一件事感到好奇，那就是自由現金流。我想您曾正式說過，您在 2023 年看到了大約 6500 萬美元的自由現金流（不包括營運資本收益）。我只是想知道這裡的指導修訂是否有任何更新？

Sure. Thanks, Barton. Our prior guidance was over $60 million prior working capital. Now I think with the moderate risk on EBITDA, we're looking at something between $50 million and $60 million now for 2023.

當然。謝謝，巴頓。我們之前的預期營運資金超過 6000 萬美元。現在我認為，考慮到 EBITDA 風險適中，我們現在預計 2023 年的利潤將在 5,000 萬至 6,000 萬美元之間。

Okay. And then you've spoken to your expectation for double-digit growth in 2024. And obviously, we've had a little bit of a guidance hiccup here. But -- can you talk about what visibility you have into 2024? I know you talked about that as an advantage of this model. But I was wondering if you could detail a little bit more what underlies your expectation for double-digit growth next year?

好的。然後您談到了對 2024 年兩位數增長的預期。顯然，我們在指導方面遇到了一些問題。但是—您能談談您對 2024 年的展望嗎？我知道您談到這一點是該模型的優點。但我想知道您能否詳細說明一下您對明年兩位數成長的預期背後的原因是什麼？

Yes. Given that -- Barton, this is Herve, thanks for the question. Given that the events are 85-plus percent of the company and we have the strong visibility into pacing, particularly strong visibility into Q1 and H1 events, we're seeing that a very large number. And we're not going to get into the details of the brands, but a very large number of the brands have sold a majority of what they need to sell to meet our internal forecast for 2024. And that's where we're seeing continued double-digit increase year-on-year.

是的。有鑑於此－巴頓，我是埃爾維，謝謝你的提問。鑑於這些事件占公司的 85% 以上，而且我們對節奏有很強的可見性，特別是對第一季和上半年的事件有很強的可見性，我們看到這個數字非常大。我們不會深入了解這些品牌的詳細信息，但許多品牌已經售出了他們需要銷售的大部分產品，以滿足我們對 2024 年的內部預測。這就是我們看到的持續雙倍增長的地方。同比增幅。

Okay. All right. That's encouraging. And then just on the advertising exposure here, which is something that we hadn't really thought much about with you guys. I know you said it's continued within the other revenue line, which I think was other marketing services, which was $30 million or so last year. And -- could you detail a little bit more specifically what it is that, that revenue is derived from?

好的。好的。這令人鼓舞。然後就是這裡的廣告曝光，這是我們沒有和你們一起考慮太多的事情。我知道你說過它在其他收入線中繼續存在，我認為是其他行銷服務，去年約為 3000 萬美元。能否更具體地說明一下收入的來源是什麼？

And I know you said there were 2 things results of that and an event that was deferred into 2024. Given that, that line was only $30 million last year and the variance here is $15 million, it seems like that other event might be a notable portion. So I was wondering if you could give us a little bit more detail around that as well?

我知道你說過這件事有兩件事，還有一個事件被推遲到2024 年。考慮到這一點，去年的這條線只有3000 萬美元，而這裡的差異是1500 萬美元，看來其他事件可能是值得注意的事件部分。所以我想知道您能否提供我們更多細節？

So the event that got pushed out, it was a new launch that we were expecting in the low single-digit millions of revenue. So it's a smaller amount of the impact, which is why we're emphasizing more on the content side. The content business in nearly we had high hopes for improvement in that business in the year. And so our budget and our forecast was for meaningfully more than the $30 million that you're talking about or $30 million range in the other marketing services line.

因此，這次活動被推遲了，這是一個新的發布，我們預計收入只有數百萬美元。所以影響較小，這就是為什麼我們更強調內容方面。內容業務幾乎我們對這一年業務的改善寄予厚望。因此，我們的預算和預測遠遠超過了您所說的 3000 萬美元或其他行銷服務領域的 3000 萬美元。

Ultimately, as the year progressed, particularly in the technology sector, which took a pretty hard hit this year, we were unable to get close to what our budget was and led to the change in our revenue forecast for the year.

最終，隨著這一年的進展，特別是在科技領域，今年受到了相當大的打擊，我們無法接近我們的預算，並導致我們今年的收入預測發生變化。

Next question today is coming from Allen Klee from Maxim Group.

今天的下一個問題來自 Maxim Group 的 Allen Klee。

Just a definitional question. Your segments changed from commerce design, creative and tech and all of other now, I think it's trade shows, other events, subscription software and services and other marketing services. Could you tell us like what went into where?

只是一個定義性問題。你們的細分市場從商業設計、創意和技術以及其他所有領域都發生了變化，我認為是貿易展覽、其他活動、訂閱軟體和服務以及其他行銷服務。您能告訴我們什麼進入了哪裡嗎？

Just to be clear, our segments have not changed. Though we're evolving them likely at year-end, and there's some language in the 10-Q around that. You're looking at the disaggregated revenue section we've disclosed that for a long time to give greater color on the source of our revenues by product we sell. So trade show and other events, trade shows are pure trade shows, other events or conferences, and other smaller marketing type events that we hold for many of our brands.

需要明確的是，我們的細分市場並沒有改變。儘管我們可能會在年底對它們進行改進，並且 10-Q 中有一些圍繞這一點的語言。您正在查看我們長期以來揭露的分類收入部分，以便更好地說明我們銷售的產品的收入來源。因此，貿易展覽和其他活動，貿易展覽是純粹的貿易展覽、其他活動或會議，以及我們為許多品牌舉辦的其他小型行銷類型活動。

The subscription software and services are subscription products largely in that is elastic, but also our subscription education products, which is a much smaller piece that we have. And then other marketing services is generally the media and content business. But it's only the revenue disclosed. The full segment disclosure, including P&Ls have not changed from before.

訂閱軟體和服務主要是訂閱產品，因為它是有彈性的，但也是我們的訂閱教育產品，這是我們擁有的一個小得多的部分。然後其他行銷服務一般是媒體和內容業務。但這只是披露的收入。包括損益表在內的完整分部揭露與先前相比沒有變化。

Okay. For media content, are there any -- is there anything you could -- that you're trying to do proactively to improve the results there?

好的。對於媒體內容，您是否正在嘗試主動採取任何措施來改善結果？

Absolutely. And about a year ago, we've hired -- we've made some changes where we separated our content in our media business from our trade show business. So that was the first step of really creating a stand-alone media and content business. We've hired leadership across a number of areas, someone to head up the entire unit, but also an Editor-in-Chief and Head of Marketing and the Head of Sales, all those hires were done Q1, I believe, of this year. And so our goal here is to be less reliant on advertising spend actually and to transform and to convert that business from an advertising-driven model to more lead-generating model.

絕對地。大約一年前，我們做了一些改變，將媒體業務的內容與貿易展業務分開。所以這是真正創建獨立媒體和內容業務的第一步。我們聘請了多個領域的領導層，有人來領導整個部門，還有一位主編、行銷主管和銷售主管，我相信所有這些招募都是在今年第一季完成的。因此，我們的目標是減少對廣告支出的實際依賴，並將業務從廣告驅動模式轉變為更能產生潛在客戶的模式。

And we're just at the beginning of that transition, but we're optimistic that we'll continue to make progress. I would like to also mention that if you look at the entire content and media business, while we have talked about the softness in the tech sector, there are many other sectors because our media properties are -- support the sectors that we operate trade shows in. And the other sectors are meeting and are hitting the goals and that we have for that business. So it's really the -- largely the tech sector that is impacted. But things like the food sector and design and construction, which is a big one and so forth are on track.

我們正處於這一轉變的開始，但我們樂觀地認為我們將繼續取得進展。我還想提一下，如果你看看整個內容和媒體業務，雖然我們談到了科技業的疲軟，但還有許多其他行業，因為我們的媒體屬性是——支持我們經營貿易展覽的行業其他部門正在滿足並正在實現我們為該業務設定的目標。所以，受影響的其實主要是科技業。但食品業、設計和施工等重要領域都已步入正​​軌。

In terms of lead generation offerings, do you think that could happen in 2024?

就潛在客戶開發產品而言，您認為這會在 2024 年發生嗎？

I absolutely do. We just launched, for instance, a newsletter for small businesses across all of the different sectors. And in a very short amount of time, we've built a significant database with hundreds of thousands of people signing up for it, which allows us to really start building this business. So we -- it will take some time. We don't see it -- we see the continued evolution of that business over the course of the next few years, but we will see some progress in '24 for sure.

我絕對願意。例如，我們剛剛為所有不同行業的小型企業推出了一份時事通訊。在很短的時間內，我們建立了一個擁有數十萬人註冊的重要資料庫，這使我們能夠真正開始建立這項業務。所以我們——這需要一些時間。我們沒有看到這一點——我們看到該業務在未來幾年內持續發展，但我們肯定會在 24 年看到一些進展。

Yes, Allen, one of the things that I think is important to keep in mind is, as Herve indicated, not only was there weakness in advertising budget this year, and I think you're probably well-aware of that given what's going on with a lot of other players in the space, ad agencies or other media companies that are exposed to the tech sector, but we're in the middle of substantial change in that unit. And maybe it wasn't the ideal time side by side, but you got to do what you got to do for the business to set it up for the future.

是的，艾倫，我認為需要牢記的重要事情之一是，正如埃爾夫指出的那樣，今年不僅廣告預算疲軟，而且考慮到正在發生的事情，我認為您可能很清楚這一點與該領域的許多其他參與者、廣告公司或其他涉足科技領域的媒體公司一樣，但我們正處於該部門的重大變革之中。也許這不是並肩作戰的理想時機，但你必須為企業做你該做的事情，為未來做好準備。

But we went through a change in the sales force by separating the sales teams from the events into a more dedicated media and content unit. We created a central newsroom so that all of our editors and reporters weren't operating independently, and we can get leverage. We began to leverage the consolidated database, as Herve indicated, by launching new products against it. It's pretty stunning to us because it's not something Emerald had ever done before, but to stand up a new content product and within a few weeks, have almost 300,000 subscribers to that product that horizontally cuts across all of our sectors, as an example.

但我們對銷售團隊進行了調整，將銷售團隊從活動中分離出來，成立了一個更專門的媒體和內容部門。我們創建了一個中央新聞編輯室，讓我們所有的編輯和記者不會獨立運作，我們可以獲得影響力。正如 Herve 所指出的，我們開始利用統一資料庫，並針對它推出新產品。這對我們來說非常令人震驚，因為這不是Emerald 以前做過的事情，但作為一個例子，推出了一個新的內容產品，幾週之內，該產品就擁有了近30 萬名訂閱者，橫向跨越了我們所有的產業。

And there's massive opportunity then as we continue to refine the new approach to then monetize at a much higher level and in a much more consistent level with a bigger focus on leads. And so while it's a disappointing year in the financial results of that business, it was actually a very successful year in the transformation of that business, and we're really excited about the prospects of what that could mean in 2024 and '25 and beyond.

當我們繼續完善新方法，然後以更高的水平和更一致的水平實現貨幣化，並更加關注潛在客戶時，就會有巨大的機會。因此，雖然今年該業務的財務表現令人失望，但實際上是該業務轉型非常成功的一年，我們對 2024 年、25 年及以後的前景感到非常興奮。

Could you provide an update on your software business in terms of plans of expanding that to new verticals and how you're thinking about the -- that shifting to profitability over time?

您能否提供有關您的軟體業務的最新信息，包括將其擴展到新垂直領域的計劃以及您如何考慮隨著時間的推移轉向盈利？

Absolutely. So the trends are similar to what we have shared in the past. We still see an average of $1 billion per month in gross merchandise value going through our platforms. We grew our customer base by 30% year-on-year. Our customer net revenue retention rate is at 110%. So we're seeing some very strong metrics around retention, around acquisition of new customers. And while we were -- we're not going to give the details of our expansion into other sectors, I will say that we have made some very good progress with the signing -- with recent signings, and others that are in the works to really penetrate new sectors from the ones that we're in today. But today is not the day to announce that.

絕對地。所以趨勢與我們過去分享的相似。我們仍然看到每月平均有 10 億美元的商品總價值通過我們的平台。我們的客戶群年增了 30%。我們的客戶淨收入保留率為 110%。因此，我們看到了一些關於保留和獲取新客戶的非常強大的指標。雖然我們不會透露我們向其他領域擴張的細節，但我想說的是，我們在簽約方面取得了一些非常好的進展，最近的簽約以及其他正在努力的項目真正滲透到我們今天所處的新領域。但今天不是宣布這項消息的日子。

Great. In your trade show business, I think last quarter, you talked about around -- being at around 80% of where you had been. I'm just wondering and -- could you just give a comment on where you feel the attendance and the amount of exhibitors are and how you're thinking about pricing and the opportunity to -- what pricing has gone up and what the opportunity to potentially increase it in the future?

偉大的。在你們的貿易展業務中，我想上個季度你們談到了——目前的水平大約是原來水準的 80%。我只是想知道 - 您能否評論一下您對出席人數和參展商數量的看法，以及您對定價和機會的看法 - 價格上漲了多少，有哪些機會未來可能會增加嗎？

So the numbers we gave last quarter were our expectations for the year, and so that hasn't changed generally on attendance and revenues versus the pre-pandemic period. So those numbers are consistent with our expectations. And the volatility on the guidance is related to the content side, not the event side. So it doesn't change that progression that we spoke about before.

因此，我們上季給出的數字是我們對今年的預期，因此與疫情前時期相比，上座率和收入總體上沒有變化。所以這些數字符合我們的預期。而指引上的波動與內容面有關，而不是事件面。所以它不會改變我們之前談到的進程。

We continue to see strong improvements in our overall yield. We're pushing kind of 9%, 10% increases year-over-year right now in yield in 2023. We surely expect that to moderate a little bit as we go forward. But we have a very significant focus on pricing here. We've talked before about creating a centralized and dedicated pricing function that brings science to pricing, that allows us to think about pricing to value and optimize overall yield.

我們繼續看到整體產量的強勁改善。我們目前正在推動 2023 年收益率年增 9%、10%。我們當然預計隨著我們的前進，這種情況會有所放緩。但我們非常關注這裡的定價。我們之前討論過創建一個集中且專用的定價功能，將科學引入定價，使我們能夠考慮定價價值並優化整體收益。

And so when you think about optimizing overall yield, it becomes more of a function of where have we delivered more value to our customers, how do we price against that value so we get credit for it. Some areas may not have price increases, some areas may have prices go down. But in aggregate, overall yield is going up because customers are doing business with us on the terms that they want to do business with us. They're buying the products and services and assigning value to those products and services and we could price against that value.

因此，當你考慮優化整體產量時，它更取決於我們在哪裡為客戶提供了更多價值，我們如何根據該價值定價，以便我們獲得信譽。有的地區可能不漲價，有的地區可能會降價。但總的來說，整體收益率正在上升，因為客戶按照他們希望與我們開展業務的條款與我們開展業務。他們購買產品和服務，並為這些產品和服務賦予價值，我們可以根據該價值進行定價。

And so we've made some really strong strides, a little bit of catch-up, admittedly in '23, relative to what was being done before, but surely think that it's a mid-single-digit opportunity for us annually going forward in optimizing the yield that we get out of our products and services.

因此，我們確實取得了一些非常強勁的進步，確實有一點追趕，相對於之前所做的事情，無可否認，在23 年，但肯定認為這對我們每年向前邁進來說是一個中個位數的機會優化我們從產品和服務中獲得的收益。

I know that one of the comments that I was really impressed by during Advertising Week and the panel that Herve was on, which was shared by the participant in a trade show for kitchen and bath-type appliances was that the number of -- the size of the kitchen and bath events was greater than CES. And I guess I didn't appreciate like what -- how valuable for industries, what you guys can do and so the whole -- and then I know I get e-mails almost every day from Advertising Week from attending it.

我知道，在廣告週期間以及 Herve 所在的小組中，令我印象深刻的評論之一是廚房和浴室類電器貿易展的參與者分享的，其數量 - 尺寸廚衛活動的數量比CES還要多。我想我並不欣賞這樣的東西——對行業有多大價值，你們能做什麼等等——然後我知道我幾乎每天都會收到來自參加廣告週的電子郵件。

So if you could just -- my last question is kind of related to as you're pushing to try to be touching the customers every single -- all year round and get them more engaged, could you talk a little about what you're actually doing to do that and the potential benefits from it?

因此，如果你可以——我的最後一個問題與你全年努力接觸每一位客戶並讓他們更加參與有關，你能談談你的工作嗎？實際上正在這樣做以及從中獲得的潛在好處？

Sure. On the CES comment, I didn't make that comment. I think the person on stage did that. I have not compared our performance to CES, but it was an interesting comment. In terms of what we're doing on a 365-day year engagement, this goes back to one of our key growth pillars of 365-day engagement where what we have is this unique and incredible platform of events that we can leverage with people that are attending events, that are looking to discover new and sellers are looking to get more leads, and we take that.

當然。關於 CES 的評論，我沒有發表這樣的評論。我認為台上的人就是這麼做的。我沒有將我們的表現與 CES 進行比較，但這是一個有趣的評論。就我們在全年365 天參與度所做的工作而言，這可以追溯到我們365 天參與度的關鍵成長支柱之一，我們所擁有的是這個獨特且令人難以置信的活動平台，我們可以與那些正在參加活動，希望發現新產品，賣家希望獲得更多線索，我們接受這一點。

And then the content business, as I mentioned, is evolving into more of a lead-generating engine for our customers where not only will they get leads at the events as we're now doing most of our large trade shows. But now they will also get them through the content business on a year-round basis. And then we can close the loop through the marketplace. That gives us an incredible amount of data that compares what people are interested in, who they're seeing through the matchmaking, what their -- what leads they're getting both at the events, but also through the content business. And then ultimately, what they're looking to buy, what they're looking to sell, as well as what's actually being bought and sold.

然後，正如我所提到的，內容業務正在演變成更多為我們的客戶提供潛在客戶的引擎，他們不僅會像我們現在舉辦的大多數大型貿易展覽會一樣在活動中獲得潛在客戶。但現在他們也將讓他們全年透過內容業務。然後我們可以透過市場形成閉環。這為我們提供了大量的數據，可以比較人們感興趣的內容、他們透過配對看到的人、他們在活動中以及透過內容業務獲得的線索。最終，他們想要購買什麼，想要出售什麼，以及實際購買和出售什麼。

And so as you continue to build this Emerald platform, this richness of data will allow us to build more products and services on top. And we've hired, as I think we announced in the last quarter or 2, a Head of Product, to really help us think and design new products that sit on top of this customer data hub that will continue to add value to our clients. So another one of the exciting developments that we've been building and investing in over the course of the last couple of years that will produce value to clients. And therefore, as David mentioned, our entire pricing strategy and philosophy is all around pricing for value.

因此，當您繼續建立這個 Emerald 平台時，這種豐富的數據將使我們能夠在此基礎上建立更多的產品和服務。正如我認為我們在上一季或第二季宣布的那樣，我們聘請了一名產品主管，以真正幫助我們思考和設計位於該客戶資料中心之上的新產品，這些產品將繼續為我們的客戶增加價值。因此，我們在過去幾年中一直在建立和投資的另一項令人興奮的開發項目將為客戶創造價值。因此，正如大衛所提到的，我們的整個定價策略和理念都是圍繞著價值定價。

So as we deliver value to our customers, we want to recapture that value. And that is, in essence, the basis of how we monetize the work that we've been doing.

因此，當我們為客戶提供價值時，我們希望重新獲得這種價值。從本質上講，這就是我們如何將我們一直在做的工作貨幣化的基礎。

Next question today is coming from Sami Kassab from BNP Paribas.

今天的下一個問題來自法國巴黎銀行的薩米·卡薩布。

Two questions, if I may, please. The first one, you talked about pricing to value. You talked about mid-single-digit annual contribution from pricing. If you take a midterm outlook, can we discuss how much volume growth you may add on top of the mid-single-digit pricing? And how much contribution from new show launches you see in the growth characteristic of the company, please?

如果可以的話，請提兩個問題。第一個，您談到了按價值定價。您談到了定價帶來的中個位數的年度貢獻。如果您進行中期展望，我們能否討論一下，除了中等個位數的定價之外，您還可以增加多少銷售成長？請問您認為新劇上線對公司的成長特性有多少貢獻？

And secondly, can you comment on labor cost inflation and how difficult it may be to recruit people and whether you see the pressure easing into next year? And perhaps whether profit margins may benefit from lower labor cost inflation in the U.S. labor industry?

其次，您能否評論一下勞動成本上漲以及招募人員的難度，以及您是否認為明年壓力會有所緩解？也許利潤率是否會受益於美國勞動產業較低的勞動成本通膨？

Very good questions. So let me try and take each one of the questions. So in terms of our growth and speaking in very general terms, we see our growth in the midterm to be roughly half and half coming from our volume growth and our yields and pricing growth. So that's how we're looking at the construct of our growth plan.

非常好的問題。讓我嘗試回答每一個問題。因此，就我們的成長而言，一般而言，我們認為中期成長大約一半來自我們的銷售成長以及收益率和定價成長。這就是我們如何看待我們的成長計劃的建構。

In terms of launches, we expect somewhere between 1% to 2% revenue growth -- organic revenue growth from our launch activities. And that those are from some of the launches that we've discussed today and others that you've heard about that we launched a number of events over the course of the last 2 years that will continue to provide us with 1% to 2% organic growth.

在發布方面，我們預計收入成長在 1% 到 2% 之間——我們的發布活動帶來的自然收入成長。這些來自我們今天討論的一些發布以及您聽說過的其他發布，我們在過去 2 年中發布了許多活動，這些活動將繼續為我們提供 1% 到 2%有機增長。

And in terms of your very good question on cost of labor and recruiting. The environment has definitely been much better of late than it has been in the past. And so we find it easier to recruit for a couple of reasons. I think the market in general has improved, but also the value proposition and where we've positioned Emerald in the industry makes it exciting for people to join and to help us achieve the goals and objectives that we have. So a combination of our value proposition and the market easing has certainly benefited us. And as a result, we're going to see some easing of the cost of labor, particularly versus last year.

至於你關於勞動力和招募成本的很好的問題。最近的環境確實比以前好很多。因此，我們發現招募更容易，原因有幾個。我認為市場總體上已經有所改善，而且價值主張以及我們對 Emerald 在行業中的定位也讓人們興奮地加入並幫助我們實現我們的目標和目的。因此，我們的價值主張和市場寬鬆的結合無疑地使我們受益。因此，我們將看到勞動成本下降，特別是與去年相比。

We have reached end of our questions and answers session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to management for your further or closing comments.

我們的問答環節已經結束。我想將發言權交還給管理層，以徵求您的進一步意見或結束語。

Very good. Well, thank you all for joining. And in conclusion, we remain maniacally focused on the 3 pillars of our growth strategy through value creation. So those are customer centricity, 365-day engagement and portfolio optimization. We continue to see strong performance resulting in year-to-date revenue growth of 21% year-over-year and adjusted EBITDA increase of over 85% versus prior year.

非常好。好的，謝謝大家的加入。總之，我們仍然透過價值創造瘋狂地關注我們成長策略的三大支柱。這些就是以客戶為中心、365 天的參與度和產品組合優化。我們繼續看到強勁的業績導致年初至今的營收年增 21%，調整後的 EBITDA 比上年增長超過 85%。

And looking forward, our -- as I mentioned, our 2024 sales pacing data gives us a great deal of confidence in our ability to deliver double-digit top line growth into next year, with strong operating leverage. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of the incredible people at Emerald who are doing such amazing work to help us continue to evolve our platform and our business and grow our business.

展望未來，正如我所提到的，我們的 2024 年銷售節奏數據讓我們對明年實現兩位數營收成長以及強大的營運槓桿的能力充滿信心。我想藉此機會感謝 Emerald 所有出色的員工，他們所做的工作非常出色，幫助我們繼續發展我們的平台和業務並發展我們的業務。

And with that, I thank you all very much for joining our call this morning. Goodbye.

在此，我非常感謝大家今天早上加入我們的電話會議。再見。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，度過美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。