Centrais Eletricas Brasileiras SA - Eletrobras (EBR) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

早安，女士們先生們。

Welcome to Eletrobras' Q3 2024 earnings conference.

歡迎參加 Eletrobras 2024 年第三季財報會議。

Joining us today are CEO, Mr. Ivan de Souza Monteiro; Finance and Investor Relations VP, Mr. Eduardo Haiama; Operations and Security VP, Mr. Antônio Varejão de Godoy; Governance, Risks, Compliance and Sustainability VP, Ms. Camila Araújo; Strategy and Business Development VP, Mr. Élio Wolff; Sales VP, Mr. Italo Freitas; Innovation, R&D, Digital and IT VP, Mr. Juliano Dantas; Legal VP, Marcelo de Siqueira Freitas; Supplies and Services VP and Interim People, Management, and Culture VP, Mr. Renato Carreira; Expansion Engineering VP, Mr. Robson Pinheiro de Campos; and Regulation, Institution, and Market VP, Mr. Rodrigo Limp.

今天加入我們的是執行長 Ivan de Souza Monteiro 先生；財務與投資者關係副總裁 Eduardo Haiama 先生；營運與安全副總裁 António Varejão de Godoy 先生；治理、風險、合規和永續發展副總裁 Camila Araçojo 女士；策略與業務發展副總裁，Álio Wolff 先生；銷售副總裁 Italo Freitas 先生；創新、研發、數位與 IT 副總裁 Juliano Dantas 先生；法律副總裁 Marcelo de Siqueira Freitas；供應與服務副總裁兼臨時人員、管理與文化副總裁 Renato Carreira 先生；擴建工程副總裁 Robson Pinheiro de Campos 先生；以及監管、機構和市場副總裁 Rodrigo Limp 先生。

This event is being recorded and will be available for replay at the company's Investor Relations website, where the slide deck for this presentation in both Portuguese and English can also be downloaded.

該活動正在錄製中，並將在該公司的投資者關係網站上重播，還可以下載該簡報的葡萄牙語和英語幻燈片。

If you need simultaneous translation, the feature is available under the globe-shaped icon labelled interpretation located at the bottom side of your Zoom window.

如果您需要同聲翻譯，可以在「縮放」視窗底部標記為「解釋」的地球形圖示下使用該功能。

For the question-and-answer session, if you have a question, please state your name and the name of your company using the Q&A button at the bottom side of your Zoom window.

在問答環節中，如果您有疑問，請使用 Zoom 視窗底部的「問答」按鈕來說明您的姓名和公司名稱。

As standard practice, your name will be announced, so you can ask your question live and a request to activate your microphone will pop up on your screen.

按照標準做法，您的名字將會被公佈，這樣您就可以現場提問，並且螢幕上會彈出激活麥克風的請求。

Alternatively, you may also submit your question in writing, also using the Q&A feature, and your question will be read out loud by the operator.

或者，您也可以使用問答功能以書面形式提交問題，接線員將大聲讀出您的問題。

Before moving on, we'd like to state that any statement made during this conference in connection with business prospects, projections, operational and financial targets are based on Eletrobras' management's beliefs and assumptions as well as information currently available to the Company.

在繼續之前，我們想聲明，本次會議期間發表的有關業務前景、預測、營運和財務目標的任何聲明均基於 Eletrobras 管理層的信念和假設以及公司目前掌握的資訊。

Forward-looking statements are no guarantee of performance, seeing as they involve risks and uncertainties and, therefore, rely on circumstances that may or may not materialize.

前瞻性陳述並不能保證業績，因為它們涉及風險和不確定性，因此依賴可能或可能不會實現的情況。

Investors must understand that general economic conditions and other operating factors may affect the results expressed in said statements.

投資者必須了解總體經濟狀況和其他經營因素可能會影響上述聲明中表達的結果。

Now, let me turn over to Mr. Ivan Monteiro, the CEO of Eletrobras, who will begin the presentation.

現在請 Eletrobras 執行長 Ivan Monteiro 先生開始演講。

Mr. Ivan, please proceed.

伊凡先生，請繼續。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Good morning.

早安.

I'd like to thank everyone for joining us for the Q3 2024 conference.

我要感謝大家參加我們 2024 年第三季的會議。

And I'd like to begin by talking about our budget for 2025.

我想先談談我們 2025 年的預算。

For the Executive Board, this will be the end of the more significant adjustment in Eletrobras' budget, and we will continue to see the incessant search for better operational efficiency.

對於執行董事會來說，這將是 Eletrobras 預算更重大調整的結束，我們將繼續看到持續尋求更好的營運效率。

For the first time in Eletrobras' 60-year history, we'll have the freedom to manage its costs in full after the discussions that occurred in the agreement.

在協議中進行討論後，在 Eletrobras 60 年的歷史上，我們將首次可以自由地完全管理其成本。

This was imposed by regulators and is an effort to improve Eletrobras' participation in the auctions that we are already participating in, as well as improving its competitiveness versus our competition in the search for new clients.

這是由監管機構強制實施的，旨在提高 Eletrobras 對我們已經參與的拍賣的參與度，並提高其在尋找新客戶方面的競爭力。

We also like to reinforce our commitments to reach a PMSO in 2024 below BRL7 million, below the BRL7 million in 2025 and close to BRL5.5 million in 2025, from a company that had no focus on the customer to one that supplies real solutions to them.

我們也想強化我們的承諾，在2024 年實現PMSO 低於700 萬雷亞爾，到2025 年低於700 萬雷亞爾，到2025 年接近550 萬雷亞爾，從一家不關注客戶的公司轉變為為客戶提供真正解決方案的公司。

We are already operating under this focus.

我們已經在這個重點下運作。

The funds raised over the years of 2023 and 2024 diversifying our funds -- fund sources, some of them unprecedented, consolidates a strong cash position, allowing us to build alternatives for future capital allocation, in particular, to support the substantial growth of our CapEx.

2023 年和2024 年籌集的資金使我們的資金多元化——其中一些資金來源是前所未有的，鞏固了強大的現金狀況，使我們能夠為未來的資本配置建立替代方案，特別是支持我們資本支出的大幅增長。

The management of our compulsory loan in the last few quarters, focusing on the definitive resolution of a set of legacy items seeking to definitively mitigate non-recurring events in future quarters.

過去幾季我們對強制貸款的管理，重點是一系列遺留項目的最終解決，力求最終減少未來幾季的非經常性事件。

We now operate as a fully integrated company under a central management with four subsidiaries, with diversified strategies, with no diversification of strategies earlier, and a structure that was deeply bureaucratic and with a full hierarchy.

我們現在是一個完全一體化的公司，由中央管理，擁有四個子公司，戰略多元化，沒有以前的多元化戰略，而且結構嚴重官僚化，等級森嚴。

We are now using the best technology available, artificial intelligence, machine learning, and everything else that's available to us, for fully efficient management of all our equipment.

我們現在正在使用現有的最佳技術、人工智慧、機器學習以及我們可用的一切其他技術，以全面有效地管理我們的所有設備。

Partnership to acquire knowledge, to acquire new technology, institutes and companies will shape Eletrobras into the future.

透過合作獲取知識、獲取新技術、機構和公司將塑造 Eletrobras 的未來。

I will now turn over to our CFO, Haiama, who will detail our results in the Q3 of 2024.

我現在將交給我們的財務長 Haiama，他將詳細介紹我們 2024 年第三季的業績。

Thank you, Ivan.

謝謝你，伊凡。

Good morning, everyone.

大家早安。

So moving on to slide 4.

繼續看投影片 4。

As Ivan said several times, I just wanted to reinforce that the Collective Bargaining Agreement that we signed has allowed us to enter a new program and will allow to -- us to stream -- continue to streamline our structure.

正如伊凡多次說過的那樣，我只是想強調，我們簽署的集體談判協議使我們能夠進入一個新計劃，並將允許我們繼續精簡我們的結構。

Last quarter, we had already incorporated Furnas, and this is the first one where results are being positively impacted by the merger.

上個季度，我們已經合併了 Furnas，這是第一次合併對業績有正面影響。

Also, during this quarter, we have signed tentatively, however, but we have already signed the exchange of the counterpart in the thermal power plants which are now serve contracts.

另外，在本季度，我們暫時簽署了合同，但我們已經簽署了目前正在服務的火電廠的對應合約。

They're no longer reserve contracts.

它們不再是儲備合約。

We concluded in a secondary operation -- the operations with [CTEEP] and financial operations as we said earlier.

我們完成了二次操作——如我們之前所說，與 [CTEEP] 的操作和財務操作。

We've virtually continued all our funding with nothing left for the next few years, and we'll continue to carry the legacy that we have for the future in our compulsory loans as well.

在接下來的幾年裡，我們幾乎已經耗盡了所有資金，而且我們也將繼續在強制貸款中繼承我們在未來所擁有的遺產。

In slide 6, moving over to the streamlining of our structure, our recurring operation -- operational expense is still in the level of 1.7% or BRL1.7 million, up 7% over the second quarter and 1% versus last year.

在投影片 6 中，轉向我們結構的精簡，我們的經常性營運——營運費用仍處於 1.7% 或 170 萬雷亞爾的水平，比第二季度增長 7%，比去年增長 1%。

We also have BRL7 million that was for the insurance over our contract that was renegotiated of BRL74 million.

我們還有 700 萬雷亞爾用於我們重新談判的 7,400 萬雷亞爾合約的保險。

This was an ACR contract.

這是一份 ACR 合約。

And next quarter, this is a cost that will no longer impact our results.

下個季度，這項成本將不再影響我們的業績。

Another important thing, when we compare Q3 with Q2 in terms of costs, because of the Furnas merger, several costs were deferred, especially from Q2 to Q3.

另一件重要的事情是，當我們在成本方面比較第三季和第二季時，由於 Furnas 合併，一些成本被推遲，特別是從第二季到第三季。

So perhaps the best thing, the best way to look at our costs this quarter is to look at an average of these two quarters, if you think about the normalization.

因此，如果考慮到正常化的話，也許最好的事情是查看本季成本的最佳方法是查看這兩個季度的平均值。

Lower on the chart, we see our expense with our associates at the company with a -- an uptick versus Q2, but with BDC, this -- with our PDC, this downward trend comes back.

在圖表的下方，我們看到我們公司員工的費用與第二季度相比有所上升，但是對於 BDC，對於我們的 PDC，這種下降趨勢又回來了。

On slide 7, the financial solidity, as I said, we made huge funding efforts to make the most of this time at the market, raising over BRL22 billion this year alone.

在投影片 7 中，正如我所說，財務穩健，我們投入了大量資金來充分利用這段時間的市場機會，光是今年就籌集了超過 220 億雷亞爾。

And with that, considering the fundraising that we had in Q2 with our debentures and what Ivan mentioned as well with [SACE], which is an Italian export agency, we should end with about EUR37 million in cash, which would be about five years to amortize the debt.

考慮到這一點，考慮到我們在第二季度透過債券籌集的資金以及伊凡提到的與義大利出口機構[SACE] 的籌款，我們最終應該獲得約3700 萬歐元的現金，這將需要大約五年的時間攤銷債務。

This is a very comfortable place which allows us to navigate any volatility that may come our way and also accelerate our organic CapEx program.

這是一個非常舒適的地方，使我們能夠應對可能出現的任何波動，並加速我們的有機資本支出計劃。

On slide 8, diving a little bit deeper into our compulsory loans.

在投影片 8 上，更深入地介紹了我們的強制貸款。

As we said, this quarter alone, we've reduced our liability by over BRL1 million.

正如我們所說，僅本季度，我們的負債就減少了超過 100 萬雷亞爾。

But with this close to BRL1 billion reduction in probable wins, we also decreased those, which we call off-balance debts with another BRL750 million, give or take in off-balance disposals.

但隨著可能獲勝的金額減少了近 10 億雷亞爾，我們也減少了那些我們稱之為表外債務的資金，另外還減少了 7.5 億雷亞爾，給予或接受了表外處置。

Now, a little bit of our ESG agenda on slide 9.

現在，幻燈片 9 介紹了我們的 ESG 議程。

When it comes to the e-pillar, it's important to state that we received permission to operate the Coxilha Negra wind farm that's in the state of Rio Grande do Sul.

說到 e-pillar，需要指出的是，我們已獲得營運南里奧格蘭德州 Coxilha Negra 風電場的許可。

When it comes to transparency, we are now publishing more reports in what we do on several different fronts, whether with our Holding, our CGT, and Biodiversity terms, and also when it comes to Innovation and Technology.

在透明度方面，我們現在發布了更多關於我們在幾個不同方面所做的工作的報告，無論是我們的控股、資本利得稅和生物多樣性條款，還是在創新和技術方面。

And on the governance, we report that we've created our Social and Environmental Commission, which is linked to several different vice presidencies within the Company.

在治理方面，我們報告說，我們已經創建了社會和環境委員會，該委員會與公司內的幾個不同的副總裁相關。

On slide 11, we talk a little bit about our Energy Balance.

在投影片 11 上，我們討論了一些關於能量平衡的問題。

It's important to state that this quarter, we continue to move forward in our long-term strategy, which is to bring end customers to our customer base and, therefore, sell more energy over time.

需要指出的是，本季我們將繼續推進我們的長期策略，即將最終客戶引入我們的客戶群，從而隨著時間的推移銷售更多的能源。

We believe we've been managing our power portfolio really well.

我們相信我們一直很好地管理我們的電力組合。

So much so that this quarter, there were a lot of people concerned about whether there would be availability in the short-term market, but we were very comfortable and ended in a very positive position going into Q4 and also to 2025 and beyond.

以至於本季度，許多人擔心短期市場是否有供應，但我們非常放心，並在進入第四季度以及 2025 年及以後以非常積極的立場結束。

On slide 13, we talk a little bit about what happened this year and especially in Q2.

在投影片 13 上，我們討論了今年發生的事情，尤其是第二季發生的事情。

The chart on the top left-hand side, we look at the Affluent Natural Energy in the last few years.

左上方的圖表顯示了過去幾年的富裕自然能源。

So you can clearly see that the levels were very positive in 2022 and '23, which led to a lower price as you can see on the bottom chart, but the situation has changed significantly starting in June in terms of prices.

因此，您可以清楚地看到 2022 年和 23 年的水平非常積極，這導致價格較低，如底部圖表所示，但從 6 月開始，價格情況發生了顯著變化。

And that was much because of the expected rainfall levels in the second half of the year.

這很大程度是因為下半年預計會有降雨量。

And we believe this price volatility is now a constant.

我們相信這種價格波動現在是一個常數。

And the constant monitoring of these changes has significantly benefited us, allowing us to position ourselves whenever we see an opportunity.

對這些變化的持續監控使我們受益匪淺，使我們能夠在看到機會時及時定位自己。

On slide 14, we talk about something that was seldomly discussed until last year.

在投影片 14 上，我們討論了去年之前很少討論的事情。

We talked about it in the second half of the year, but it was a small impact, but now in Q2 and Q3 was very significant, which is what we call modulation.

我們下半年就講過，但是影響很小，但是現在Q2、Q3就非常顯著了，就是我們說的調製。

Now, considering how the transmission of energy behaves over the course of the day, there's also an impact on the spot price over the course of the day.

現在，考慮到一天中能量傳輸的表現，這也會對一天中的現貨價格產生影響。

Now, because our portfolio is 93% made up of hydropower, we are absolutely exposed to this shift in prices.

現在，由於我們的投資組合 93% 由水力發電組成，因此我們絕對會受到這種價格變化的影響。

Now, how does that translate into revenue?

現在，這如何轉化為收入？

In a scenario where this volatility of hydropower generation over the course of the day, if we generated an average throughout the day and also generated this -- the average revenue throughout the day, we would have the average price, ultimately, which on the graph -- on the chart on the right, we would have close to BRL421 million.

在水力發電在一天中波動的情況下，如果我們產生全天平均值並產生這一點 - 全天平均收入，我們最終將得到平均價格，如圖所示-- 在右側圖表中，我們的資金接近4.21 億雷亞爾。

But because of these fluctuations in both generation and prices, and you have to calculate prices every hour, our revenue would ultimately approach BRL4.3 million -- BRL9.4 million.

但由於發電和價格的波動，而且你必須每小時計算價格，我們的收入最終將接近 430 萬至 940 萬雷亞爾。

So we understand this should also go from zero to positive, but there are also other sources that involve different risks that might lead to a negative result.

因此，我們知道這也應該從零變為正值，但還有其他來源涉及不同的風險，可能會導致負面結果。

Now, what would be the premium to hydro plants?

現在，水力發電廠的溢價是多少？

In the first half, where the fluctuation was still small, we would see the difference of close to BRL3 per hour for the electric power.

上半年，波動還很小，我們會看到每小時接近3雷亞爾的電力差異。

Now, the gain was close to 6 times that of the entire quarter in this second half of the year, just to show you the impact that this volatility will have on our results moving forward.

現在，今年下半年的收益接近整個季度的 6 倍，只是為了向您展示這種波動將對我們未來的業績產生的影響。

On slide 16, we have just a few of the financial highlights.

在幻燈片 16 上，我們僅展示了一些財務亮點。

This year, we had the renegotiation of the Tucurui GSF, which brought close to BRL1.3 billion.

今年，我們對圖庫魯伊 GSF 進行了重新談判，金額接近 13 億雷亞爾。

Also, because of our purchase agreement with the thermal plants, with part of the energy being sold to Amazonas.

此外，由於我們與熱電廠簽訂了購買協議，部分能源將出售給亞馬遜。

And because the contract is underway, we have been able to reverse close to BRL400 million in provisions that we had allowed for in the second quarter because of those sales.

由於合約正在進行中，我們已經能夠沖銷近 4 億雷亞爾的準備金，這些準備金是我們在第二季度因這些銷售而允許的。

We also recognize the revenue of close to BRL6 billion from transmission and profit terms that would be close to BRL5.4 billion, the impact in our profits --on our profits.

我們也意識到輸電收入接近 60 億雷亞爾，利潤方面將接近 54 億雷亞爾，這對我們的利潤產生了影響。

We've talked about the reduction in compulsory -- because of compulsory loans and the liability management.

我們已經討論了強制貸款的減少——因為強制貸款和責任管理。

On slide 17, the highlights, as mentioned before, was the revenue from the renegotiation of the Tucurui GSF with a decrease in the transmission RAP because of the periodic tariff review.

在幻燈片 17 上，如前所述，亮點是 Tucurui GSF 重新談判帶來的收入，由於定期關稅審查，輸電 RAP 有所下降。

Part of that disappears starting in July of next year.

從明年七月開始，其中一部分就會消失。

On the EBITDA, in addition to the impact of that revenue and the cost that came in keeping with what we had last year, we saw some gains because of those provisions for our receivables with Amazonas was reversed.

在 EBITDA 上，除了收入的影響和與去年一致的成本之外，我們還看到了一些收益，因為我們與亞馬遜的應收帳款撥備被逆轉。

And lastly, the report -- with the reported income, I'd like to say that of the BRL7.5 million in net income, BRL5.4 million comes from that remeasurement and the revision that we conducted.

最後，關於報告的收入，我想說的是，在 750 萬雷亞爾的淨利潤中，540 萬雷亞爾來自我們進行的重新衡量和修訂。

On slide 18, where we talk about our PMSO, for the sake -- for comparison's sake, because in the previous quarter, we had not calculated the estimated PLR expense over the following quarters.

在投影片 18 中，我們談論我們的 PMSO，是為了比較，因為在上一季度，我們沒有計算接下來幾季的估計 PLR 費用。

In the same quarter of last year, we calculated what that expense would have been, so that we could calculate the average for this year.

在去年同一季度，我們計算了該費用是多少，以便我們可以計算今年的平均值。

So what we call IFRS adjustment, we include that effect.

因此，我們所說的《國際財務報告準則》調整，包括了這種影響。

Our personnel costs have been coming down also because of adjustments we've made in recruitment since the privatization.

我們的人員成本一直在下降，這也是因為我們自私有化以來在招募方面所做的調整。

And the service line, as I said, comparing not with Q3 of last year, but with Q2 of this year, some initiatives have been delayed because of the merger, the Furnas merger.

服務線，正如我所說，不是與去年第三季度相比，而是與今年第二季度相比，一些舉措由於合併（Furnas 合併）而被推遲。

And in the other services line, we've concluded the revision of all our deposits, our core deposits with a net impact of BRL600 million.

在其他服務領域，我們完成了所有存款、核心存款的修訂，淨影響達 6 億雷亞爾。

But part of that came -- entered in others.

但其中的一部分已經進入了其他人的體內。

And part of that was recognized in provisions and contingencies, which were still in the line, but has -- had already been paid in the previous period, and also monetary corrections for those financial write-offs.

其中一部分已在準備金和意外開支中得到確認，這些準備金和意外開支仍在行列中，但已經在上一時期支付，並且還對這些財務沖銷進行了貨幣修正。

Lastly, within these, these [75], there are elements that will not appear in the following periods.

最後，在這些裡面，這些[75]裡面，有些元素是以後的時期不會出現的。

Now in provisions, I think I've mentioned nearly all of those that you see on the screen.

現在，在規定中，我想我已經提到了幾乎所有您在螢幕上看到的內容。

I should also remind you of the BRL300 million write-off that we have because of the compulsory loans and also the contingencies in connection with the deposits.

我還應該提醒您，我們因強制貸款以及與存款有關的意外事件而註銷了 3 億雷亞爾。

These are the main highlights.

這些是主要亮點。

All the rest is much more in connection to last year than this year.

其餘的一切都與去年有關，而不是今年。

That being said, I think we can move on to the question-and-answer session.

話雖這麼說，我想我們可以進入問答環節了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

We will now begin the question-and-answer session for investors and analysts.

我們現在將開始投資人和分析師的問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Carolina Carneiro, Safra.

（操作員說明）Carolina Carneiro，Safra。

I have two questions.

我有兩個問題。

The first one is about your costs.

第一個是關於你的成本。

We can see the development in year-over-year terms, but there's still some volatility, if we compare, for example, the PSO this quarter with that of last quarter, and because you've talked about the layoff program.

我們可以看到同比的發展，但如果我們將本季度的 PSO 與上季度的 PSO 進行比較，並且因為您談到了裁員計劃，那麼仍然存在一些波動。

Can you give us some color?

你能給我們一些顏色嗎？

We saw the changes between Q2 and Q3, and maybe what we could expect in terms of the trend for that in the next few quarters?

我們看到了第二季和第三季之間的變化，也許我們對未來幾季的趨勢有何預期？

And my second question is about the energy market.

我的第二個問題是關於能源市場的。

Looking at your Energy Balance, we know there's a strategy for maybe not be 100% exposed in terms of what you've sold in energy, but a few companies in the industry have reported several Energy Balance reports with significant sales between 2026 and 2028.

查看您的能源平衡，我們知道有一個策略可能不會 100% 暴露您所銷售的能源，但業內的一些公司已經報告了幾份能源平衡報告，其中在 2026 年至 2028 年期間銷售額很大。

So could we see prices as high as BRL170 to BRL178 the kilowatt hour?

那麼我們是否會看到每千瓦時高達 170 至 178 雷亞爾的價格呢？

And you also mentioned that in this quarter in your balance sheet.

您在本季的資產負債表中也提到了這一點。

So could you please talk a little bit about whether there were moves in terms of sales for longer periods beyond 2025 and whether this level of prices that we saw for other companies is consistent with what you're seeing in your future contracts?

那麼，您能談談 2025 年後較長時期內銷售方面是否有變化，以及我們看到的其他公司的價格水平是否與您在未來合約中看到的一致？

Well, I think we made it clear with regard to PMSO, the downward trend that we believe to be consistent.

嗯，我認為我們已經明確了 PMSO，我們認為下降趨勢是一致的。

We have numerous examples of the strategy that we're adopting here at the Company, and you should continue to believe in that strategy.

我們有很多公司正在採用的策略的例子，您應該繼續相信該策略。

But the figure that we just reported below BRL7 million for this year and below BRL6 million next year and about BRL5.5 million in 2026, that should be the level that will be in the budget pieces that we will be submitting via our board.

但我們剛剛報告的數字今年低於 700 萬雷亞爾，明年低於 600 萬雷亞爾，2026 年約為 550 萬雷亞爾，這應該是我們將透過董事會提交的預算文件中的水平。

These are unrelenting commitments for the Company.

這些都是公司堅定不移的承諾。

We believe these to be absolutely achievable.

我們相信這些是絕對可以實現的。

Now, as to our operation in energy sales, I'd like to turn over to our Vice President.

現在，關於我們在能源銷售方面的運作，我想請我們的副總裁來討論。

Well, in the near term, we were really able to leverage that fluctuation in prices that we saw in the last Q4 -- in the last -- last quarter.

嗯，在短期內，我們確實能夠利用我們在上個季度（最後一個季度）看到的價格波動。

We have expanding our client portfolio to over 700 clients, and in the long term, obviously, volatility should be smaller, but it's important to state that Brazil is undergoing deep changes in the energy industry, and there are substantial challenges relative to the intermittent variables as people know them.

我們已經將我們的客戶組合擴大到700多個客戶，從長遠來看，顯然波動性應該更小，但需要指出的是，巴西能源產業正在經歷深刻的變化，間歇性變數面臨著巨大的挑戰人們都知道他們。

These variables are more challenging to incorporate in the medium to long term, and this pushes prices up.

從中長期來看，這些變數的納入更具挑戰性，這會推高價格。

So you do not have the same number of projects that we've had in the last 10 years being planned for the next five years or six years.

因此，未來五年或六年規劃的項目數量與過去 10 年的項目數量不同。

Now, why is that?

現在，這是為什麼呢？

That's because this type of generation, which is intermittent, as the name itself says, has been considered because of that modulation, but it involves other challenges.

這是因為這種類型的發電，正如其名稱本身所說，是間歇性的，由於這種調製而被考慮，但它涉及其他挑戰。

And even because of the very poor impact on those variables, as well as the costs with implementation, CapEx, and OpEx, which have hurt this type of energy contract.

甚至因為這些變數的影響非常小，以及實施成本、資本支出和營運支出，這些都損害了此類能源合約。

So this pushes prices by and large, which means they have an upper bias.

因此，這總體上推動了價格，這意味著它們存在較高的偏差。

Bruno Amorim, Goldman Sachs.

布魯諾·阿莫林，高盛。

I'd just like you to talk a little bit about your prospects for investments in reinforcements and improvements.

我只想請您談談您在加固和改進方面的投資前景。

If you could please confirm the figure expected for 2024 year-round and if that's consistent with what you expect for the following years, and also if you could talk a little bit about the regulatory process to approve these investments, how's that been developing and what do you expect for the future?

請您確認 2024 年全年的預期數字，以及這是否與您對未來幾年的預期一致，以及您是否可以談談批准這些投資的監管流程，進展情況如何，以及你對未來有何期待？

And in connection with that, what's your take on the trend with equipment prices?

與此相關，您對設備價格趨勢有何看法？

I understand that you have a very important advantage because you are the largest player in the country.

我知道你們有一個非常重要的優勢，因為你們是這個國家最大的參與者。

So you're, obviously, competitive and I understand that you also benefit from that when purchasing equipment.

所以，顯然，你很有競爭力，我知道你在購買設備時也能從中受益。

I just wanted to understand what you're seeing in terms of equipment costs because of the depreciation of the exchange rate.

我只是想了解由於匯率貶值您所看到的設備成本。

We are seeing other players reporting strong margins.

我們看到其他參與者報告了強勁的利潤率。

So I just wanted to understand what your prospects are when it comes to your profitability in that sense.

因此，我只是想了解您的獲利前景如何。

Bruno, I'll have to activate three different VPs starting with Elio and then Limp, who will talk about regulations and we'll end with Renato, who will talk about the prices.

布魯諾，我將不得不激活三個不同的副總裁，從埃利奧開始，然後是林普，他將討論法規，我們將由雷納托結束，他將討論價格。

First of all, with regard to volume, in the last few years, we've seen a trend moving closer to BRL2 billion to BRL2.5 billion.

首先，就交易量而言，過去幾年，我們看到了接近 20 億雷亞爾至 25 億雷亞爾的趨勢。

This year, we should go over BRL3 billion, which is obviously a sign of our evolution.

今年，我們的目標應該超過 30 億雷亞爾，這顯然是我們發展的標誌。

And for the next few years, we see the potential to execute even more.

在接下來的幾年裡，我們看到了執行更多的潛力。

And it's not just about getting the volume, but having it be well done.

這不僅僅是獲得數量，而是要做得好。

And we want it to be commensurate with our ability to execute it.

我們希望它與我們的執行能力相稱。

Now to your second point in the issue of the approval of our improvements, we have a very interesting backlog with possibilities that we're working with alongside engineering, working primarily on the issue of safety.

現在，關於批准我們改進的問題的第二點，我們有一個非常有趣的積壓工作，其中有可能我們正在與工程部門一起工作，主要致力於安全問題。

We have to preserve our assets and that, obviously, involves appropriate compensation.

我們必須保護我們的資產，這顯然需要適當的補償。

So what we believe is that the regulator has been seeking to encourage us to invest more and to catalog more investment, so that we can do more, grow the system, and improve our operations.

因此，我們認為，監管機構一直在尋求鼓勵我們進行更多投資並分類更多投資，以便我們能夠做得更多，發展系統並改善我們的營運。

So we see a lot of room to grow still in the next few years.

因此，我們認為未來幾年仍有很大的成長空間。

I just wanted to add to what Elio just said.

我只是想補充 Elio 剛才所說的內容。

In transmission, there's very consolidated legislation in terms of reinforcement improvements, both large-scale and small-scale.

在輸電方面，無論是大規模或小規模的加固改進，都有非常統一的立法。

A lot of them coming from the agents once the needs are identified, obviously, following all the feasibility analyses, which include tariff revisions.

顯然，在確定需求後，在進行了所有可行性分析（包括關稅修訂）後，其中許多來自代理商。

This quarter, we've just concluded the tariff revision for the 2018, 2023 cycle.

本季度，我們剛完成了2018年、2023年周期的關稅修訂。

We've recognized the investments and we're already working for the 2028 revision cycle, kick-starting the regulatory base management, so that we can improve our process to recognize our investments, considering the regulatory rates determined by the regulatory agency.

我們已經認可了這些投資，並且已經在為 2028 年修訂週期而努力，啟動監管基礎管理，以便我們可以改進我們的流程來認可我們的投資，同時考慮監管機構確定的監管利率。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Renato, please?

雷納托，請嗎？

So demand remains high in the market.

因此市場需求仍然很高。

Yes, there is an upward trend in costs, both because of raw material, which is still going up, but also the increased demand for material and the lack of productive capacity from our producers or manufacturers.

是的，成本呈上升趨勢，這不僅是因為原材料仍在上漲，也是因為對材料的需求增加以及我們的生產商或製造商缺乏生產能力。

Even though there's a lot of investment, investment is not taking place at such a fast pace.

儘管有很多投資，但投資的速度並不那麼快。

So they cannot build more plants and implement or increase the supply.

因此他們無法建造更多工廠並實施或增加供應。

We also have the economy of scale because of the demands for the entire group.

由於整個集團的需求，我們也擁有規模經濟。

And we are adopting long-term contracts to buy these pieces of equipment in combination with engineering and supplies and identifying what types of equipment for generation and transmission we can already purchase for the long term.

我們正在採用長期合約來購買這些設備，並結合工程和供應，並確定我們已經可以長期購買哪些類型的發電和輸電設備。

Sometimes conducting spot purchases so that we can better manage these assets that put pressure on our CapEx and be able to ensure our profitability from other projects as well.

有時進行現貨採購，以便我們能夠更好地管理這些對我們的資本支出造成壓力的資產，並能夠確保我們從其他項目中獲得獲利。

(Operator Instructions) Marcelo, Itau.

（操作員指示）Marcelo，Itau。

I have a question about your Collective Bargaining Agreement. 65% of your associates in --adopted.

我對你們的集體談判協議有疑問。您 65% 的同事已採用。

And I remember there was something at Furnas and [Chester], I don't know if approvals have already come or if -- whether it came only from Furnas.

我記得弗納斯和（切斯特）有一些事情，我不知道是否已經獲得批准，或者是否僅來自弗納斯。

And I also wanted to understand what the non-acceptance of that agreement implies, because associates outside of that agreement will also miss out on a few of the benefits that Petrobras offers.

我還想了解不接受該協議意味著什麼，因為該協議之外的員工也將錯過巴西國家石油公司提供的一些好處。

So it might be detrimental to them to not be part of the agreement, and also whether the company could maybe fire those at any point.

因此，不參與協議可能對他們不利，而且公司是否可能隨時解僱這些人。

I just wanted to have that very clear.

我只是想把這一點說清楚。

Marcelo, let me turn over to Renato who will take your question.

馬塞洛，讓我請雷納托回答你的問題。

Well, about your first question, about two thirds of our associates who agreed, including Chester which was a group that signed later, we have the CT rules for 74% of those jobs.

好吧，關於你的第一個問題，我們大約三分之二的員工表示同意，包括後來簽約的切斯特集團，我們對其中 74% 的工作都有 CT 規則。

You're right.

你說得對。

There's part of Furnas and the Holding that's still outside of that agreement.

弗納斯和控股公司的一部分仍然不在該協議範圍內。

But they understood that the previous Collective Agreement has already expired.

但他們明白，先前的集體協議已經過期。

So that basis outside the agreement, they are under the CLT agreement.

因此，在協議之外，它們是在 CLT 協議之下的。

So they are entitled to the benefits under the CLT agreement.

因此他們有權享受CLT協議下的利益。

We are offered a very advantageous agreement to those, those employees.

我們為那些員工提供了非常有利的協議。

But that group decided not to participate in the agreement.

但該組織決定不參與協議。

But right now, it's still business as usual.

但現在，一切還是照常進行。

We are replacing employees and using the assets along those lines.

我們正在更換員工並按照這些方式使用資產。

Part of that being under the CT agreement and part of that under the CLT.

其中一部分是根據 CT 協議，一部分是根據 CLT 協議。

I just wanted to understand that the collective agreement represented an increase of about 4% in real terms.

我只是想了解一下，集體協議實質上代表了約4%的成長。

Is that what you offered and why did the group from Furnas didn't agree?

這就是你提出的要求嗎？

Could you talk a little bit about what the pushback was and why they didn't enter the agreement?

您能談談阻力是什麼以及為什麼他們沒有簽署協議嗎？

Well, the adjustment and the benefits we offered with the CT agreement includes the adjustment for inflation only for the operational based.

好吧，我們透過 CT 協議提供的調整和好處包括僅針對基於營運的通貨膨脹的調整。

What was agreed for anything that's above BRL6,000 of compensation, you do not need to adjust for inflation, either your salary or the other benefits.

對於超過 6,000 雷亞爾的補償，您無需根據通貨膨脹進行調整，無論是您的工資還是其他福利。

And that goes to what I almost said.

這就是我幾乎要說的。

Now, according to the situation, a lot of people felt close to the agreement in their -- in its current state.

現在，根據情況，很多人都覺得在目前的狀態下已經接近協議了。

But the door is still open to talk to those people and make the necessary adjustments.

但與這些人交談並做出必要調整的大門仍然敞開。

But for the time being, they do not seem to be willing to adopt or to enter our agreement.

但目前他們似乎不願意採納或加入我們的協議。

And we also do not -- have no plans of changing the agreement that we have on the table.

我們也沒有計劃改變我們已經達成的協議。

Gilmar Lima, Santander.

吉爾瑪·利馬，桑坦德銀行。

I have two questions.

我有兩個問題。

First of all, I just wanted to go back to Carol's point about -- Carol's point about PMSO.

首先，我只想回到卡羅爾關於 PMSO 的觀點。

You mentioned BRL5.5 billion (sic - BRL5.5 million) by 2026.

您提到到 2026 年將達到 55 億雷亞爾（原文如此 - 550 萬雷亞爾）。

Now, looking at the figure you were reporting back in 2023, correcting for inflation, inflation, it seems similar with the previous period.

現在，看看您在 2023 年報告的數字，修正了通貨膨脹因素，看起來與上一期相似。

So I just wanted to understand whether you've looked at that prior figure and then consider that that would be the achievable, or could you maybe look at an even prior one and give us maybe a figure that's different from those BRL5.5 million in 2026.

因此，我只是想了解您是否查看過之前的數字，然後認為這是可以實現的，或者您是否可以查看之前的數字，並給我們一個與 550 萬雷亞爾不同的數字。

My other question is about your sales strategy, in fact, about the marketing market at all.

我的另一個問題是關於你們的銷售策略，事實上，關於行銷市場。

We have been hearing about growing risk of delinquency, and I just wanted to hear whether you see that risk spreading across the market.

我們一直聽說拖欠風險不斷增加，我只是想聽聽您是否認為這種風險正在整個市場蔓延。

And could that affect your negotiations, especially with regard to the energy prices that we've seen in the last few days?

這是否會影響你們的談判，特別是關於我們在過去幾天看到的能源價格？

Could you please talk a little bit about that?

您能談談這個嗎？

About our PMSO trend, we always encourage you to look at changes quarter-by-quarter.

關於我們的 PMSO 趨勢，我們始終鼓勵您逐季度查看變化。

Nonrecurring events might take place in many cases, which is why it's important to look at the trend.

在許多情況下，可能會發生非重複事件，因此了解趨勢很重要。

So provide that -- the information about that trend is what's important.

因此，提供有關該趨勢的資訊才是重要的。

I just wanted to remind you that the figure that we provided in 2023 is a nominal figure and it has to be adjusted for inflation and other effects, which is nowadays not only a privilege to part of the world.

我只是想提醒大家，我們在 2023 年提供的數字是名目數字，必須根據通貨膨脹和其他影響進行調整，這在當今不僅僅是世界部分地區的特權。

Many parts of the world have experienced peaks in inflation.

世界許多地區都經歷過通貨膨脹高峰。

So I also like to tell you that our commitment to going back is not based on merits or history, but based on new initiatives that we're introducing every day to have simpler and more efficient processes.

因此，我也想告訴您，我們對回歸的承諾不是基於優點或歷史，而是基於我們每天推出的新舉措，以實現更簡單、更有效率的流程。

So this is a trend that will be discussed along the next few years.

因此，這是未來幾年將討論的趨勢。

And my impression is the figure that we can deliver seems better, but we did not want to commit to that right now.

我的印像是，我們可以提供的數字似乎更好，但我們現在不想承諾這一點。

But our feeling is that it could be better.

但我們的感覺是，情況還可以更好。

Now, about sales and marketing, I'll turn over to our Vice President, in charge of that.

現在，關於銷售和行銷，我將移交給我們的副總裁負責。

Over the last few weeks or a couple of months, we have seen some volatility in the market and a few companies go through more critical situations when it comes to their, their prices, when that's the case.

在過去的幾週或幾個月裡，我們看到市場出現了一些波動，一些公司在價格方面遇到了更嚴峻的情況。

We have seen and are seeing that.

我們已經看到並且正在看到這一點。

And that's characteristic of a market with this type of volatility.

這就是具有這種波動性的市場的特徵。

It also offers the opportunity for this market to grow even more.

它還為該市場提供了進一步增長的機會。

Now, we do not expect any impact going into the future from this issue in particular, looking at our prices, but rather a combination of several different factors.

現在，我們預計這個問題不會對未來產生任何影響，特別是從我們的價格來看，而是幾個不同因素的結合。

We are not exposed to these companies which are struggling at this point.

我們沒有接觸過這些目前陷入困境的公司。

And the very few that we are working with, we have renegotiated our rates with an actual interesting haircut.

與我們合作的極少數人，我們已經通過一個真正有趣的髮型重新協商了我們的價格。

Petrobras works with a very healthy counterpart range, which is very consolidated in the market.

巴西國家石油公司與非常健康的對應產品系列合作，這些產品在市場上非常鞏固。

And what we're seeing is that this might be the beginning of the market growing more mature, the energy market growing more mature here in Brazil.

我們看到的是，這可能是市場變得更加成熟的開始，巴西的能源市場變得更加成熟。

I just wanted to quickly add and talk about the importance of safety here in the market, which is an issue that's spearheaded by NL and

我只是想快速補充並談談市場安全的重要性，這是由 NL 和

[CCP].

[中共]。

Of course, there's a lot of work to do, but we have had significant -- we've made significant headway, especially with the work that CC has done monitoring the market.

當然，還有很多工作要做，但我們已經取得了重大進展，特別是在 CC 監控市場的工作方面。

In times of greater volatility, obviously, make players more trepidatious.

顯然，在波動性更大的時期，會讓玩家更加惶恐不安。

But this also has to do with the regulation that has evolved in the market, which is very important, especially when you look at the new horizon for the free market with new measures, such as the 50 -- Regulation Number 50 that was issued this year.

但這也與市場演變的監管有關，這一點非常重要，特別是當你用新措施看待自由市場的新視野時，例如今年發布的第50號條例年。

This concludes our question-and-answer session.

我們的問答環節到此結束。

We'd like to turn over to Mr. Ivan Monteiro for the Company's final remarks.

我們請伊凡·蒙泰羅先生聽取公司的最後發言。

Well, once again, we'd like to thank everyone for joining us, and also say that our finance and IR teams are available for any further questions.

好吧，我們再次感謝大家加入我們，並表示我們的財務和 IR 團隊可以解答任何進一步的問題。

This concludes Eletrobras' Q3 2024 earnings conference.

Eletrobras 2024 年第三季財報會議到此結束。

Thank you, everyone, for joining, and have a great day.

謝謝大家的加入，祝您有美好的一天。