Ebix Inc (EBIX) 2009 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Ebix, Inc. 2009 annual results investor call. At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. Later we will conduct a question and answer session and instructions will be given at that time.

I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference, Mr. Robin Raina, President and CEO of Ebix, Inc. Please go ahead.

Good morning, everybody. Thank you for attending Ebix 2009 annual investor call. I have also with me today Mr. Robert Kerris, Ebix Chief Financial Officer on this investor conference call.

We announced our 2009 financial results earlier today and all of you must have seen those numbers by now. I'll take a few minutes to summarize these results for you. Each of the last nine years have been a record year for Ebix in terms of beating all its results in the last 34 years. This year was no different from the last few to the extent that the financial results for the year 2009 are record results again, the best ever in our 34 year young history. To get a better understanding of the results announced today, I will also outline a few metrics from the past three years from you. I will also present an analyzed run rate based on the Q4 2009 results. This annualized run rate is not guidance on future results but is simply meant to convey a conservative annual run rate based on Q4 2009 results.

Annualized revenue run rate, first topic. Based on Q4 2009 results, Ebix annualized revenue run rate for 2010 would be $125.2 million even if Ebix showed revenue growth in 2010. Ebix 2009 fourth quarter revenue rose 55% to $31.3 million as compared to $20.1 million in Q4 of 2008, 157% as compared to Q4 of 2007 and 237% as compared to fourth quarter of 2006. Ebix total revenue for the full year of 2009 rose 31% to $97.7 million compared to $74.8 million in 2008, 128% as compared to 2007 and 234% as compared to 2006.

Second topic, annualized net income run rate. Based on Q4 2009 results, Ebix annualized net income run rate for 2010 would be approximately $48 million. Ebix 2009 fourth quarter net income rose 53% to $12.1 million as compared to $7.9 million in the fourth quarter of 2008, 169% as compared to fourth quarter 2007 and 625% as compared to the fourth quarter of 2006. Ebix net income for the full year of 2009 grew 42% to $38.8 million year-over-year, 207% as compared to 2007 and 551% as compared to 2006.

Third topic, diluted EPS. Ebix 2009 fourth quarter diluted EPS rose 40% to $0.92 as compared to $0.66 in the fourth quarter 2008, 130% as compared to $0.40 in the fourth quarter of 2007 and 411% as compared to $0.18 during the fourth quarter of 2006. The results for the fourth quarter of 2009 and the fourth quarter 2008 were based on 13.2 million and 12.2 million weighted average diluted shares outstanding, respectively. All these results are pre-split since the three-for-one slit was made effective on January 4, 2010. Ebix diluted EPS for the full year of 2009 grew 36% year-over-year to $3.10, 158% as compared to 2007 and 392% as compared to 2006. For purposes of EPS calculation, there was an average of approximately 12.7 million diluted shares outstanding during the year 2009 as compared to an average of 12.3 million pre-split diluted shares outstanding in 2008.

Next topic, next margins. Our net margins continued to improve increasing to 40% for the full year of 2009 from 37% in 2008, 30% in 2007 and 20% in 2006. Net margins in fourth quarter 2009 were 41% before taking into account non-recurring charges associated with acquisitions and 39% after taking into account the non-recurring charges associated with the two acquisitions in the fourth quarter 2009. This compares with 39% in Fourth quarter of 2008, 37% in fourth quarter 2007, and 18% during the fourth quarter 2006.

Next topic, operating cash flows. For the 12 months ended December 31, 2009, the Company generated $33.9 million of net cash flow from operating activities compared to $26.8 million for the year-ended December 31, 2008, a 26% increase in operating cash flow year-over-year. Cash generated from operations for the fiscal fourth quarter was $11.8 million, up 59% year-over-year. This implies annualized cash flow of $47.2 million even if we were forced to operate at the same level of operating cash flows throughout 2010.

Next metric, customers. An estimated 99.5% plus of Ebix clients from 2008 renewed their business with Ebix in the year 2009. Meaning that Ebix did not lose a single customer across the world that accounted for more than 0.5% of Ebix revenues in the year 2008 or 2009.

Next metric, channel revenues. In the fourth quarter of 2009, the exchange channel grew 78% year-over-year to $21.4 million or 68% of fourth quarter 2009 revenues. The BPO channel grew 33% year-over-year to $4 million or 13% of the fourth quarter 2009 revenues. The broker channel grew 87% year-over-year to $3.4 million or 11% of Fourth Quarter 2009 revenues. The carrier channel dropped 23% year-over-year to $2.5 million or 8% of the fourth quarter 2009 revenues. We believe that the drop in revenues from the sale of back end systems to insurance carriers was directly related to a freeze in spending related to back end system at insurance companies. We expect things to improve and the carrier channel to start growing again.

Next metric, R&D headquarters. As a part of our efforts to grow across the world, the Company has centralized its international intellectual property and development operation in Singapore and India with over 60% of its R&D staff based in these two countries. Ebix is entitled to a subsidized tax rate of 10% in Singapore and 0% tax rate until the year 2015 in India.

Next topic, tax forecast for 2010 and beyond. The Company expects its blended worldwide income tax rate to be in the range of 6% to 8% for the fiscal year 2010 and a gradual increase to a blended worldwide tax rate of 8% to 12% over the following few years.

Next topic, long term debt. As of 31 December 2009 the Company had used $23.1 million from a revolving line of credit with Banc of America. Subsequently, in February 2010, we replaced this line with a new $10 million term loan over two years and a $25 million revolving line of credit, both at LIBOR plus 1.75%, presently implying 1.92% interest. The line also has an accordion feature for another $10 million debt. At present, we're still only using $23.1 million from this $45 million borrowing capacity.

Next topic, convertible debt. As of 31 December 2009 the convertible debt balance stood at $28.6 million, since then, White Box advisors have exercised part of this convertible debt. This means that total convertible debt as on date is approximately $25 million. This convertible debt is at a zero rate of interest and will have the effect of not diluting any shareholders since the Company intends to pay for this convert in cash. This $25 million convertible debt today is incurring a non-cash expense of 1.75% in our financials as if the interest was being paid in line with FAS 14-1 guidelines.

Next topic, accounts receivable. The Company's operating cash flow of $11.8 million in the fourth quarter of 2009 speaks for itself. The Company's almost perfect customer retention rate has been driven by an excellent relation with our customers and it also reflects in the Company not having any material collection issues over the last decade.

Next topic, continued evolution. The Company's size has continued to increase over the years and the Company has continued to evolve and strengthen its internal controls through the use of quality partners, vendors, tax advisors, and arms-length statutory auditors. In 2009, the Company made use of top quality firms like (inaudible) Ernst & Young, (inaudible), HAW, and Cherry, Bekaert & Holland for our statutory audit. On a variety of fronts, some of these firms were involved in valuation accounting, some in transfer pricing, risk restructuring, and statutory auditors, of course, in our consolidated audits.

We continue to have strong relationships with all accounting firms that we have worked with over the last seven years and still continue to utilize them. For example, our present consolidating auditors, CBX, have been our auditors for the last two fiscal years now. For fiscal 2009, our past US audit firm, HAW, helped us with some income tax matters in 2009. In fiscal 2009, one of our past audit firms, (inaudible), continued to function as our auditors in Singapore, Sweden, Australia and now they've done that for more than five years.

Next topic, cash for future acquisitions. After paying approximately $33.7 million in cash for two acquisitions, Peak and E-Z Data, and for the new building in India in the fourth quarter 2009, the Company's cash balance as of 31 December 2009 was approximately $19.2 million. With the additional $22 million of borrowing capacity from our accordion line with Banc of America and the continued strong operating cash flow, Q4 2009 operating cash flow annualized would mean $47.2 million operating cash flows. We believe that we are well positioned to use this cash towards making strategic accretive acquisitions in the exchange arena worldwide.

Next topic, R&D focus. The Company's vision plan is always to be a few years ahead of fixed competition and thus we have continued to maintain a strong focus on research and development. The companies R&D centers in India have the highest quality rating from Carnegie Melon, the CMMI 5 rating. In addition, the Company's strong R&D focus can be evidenced the from the fact that we have one of the highest ratios in the software industry in terms of percentage of employees who are focused on R&D. With an estimated 60% plus of our employee base worldwide continuing to maintain that focus.

Final summary. Over the last decade or so, Ebix has been a story of consistency and we believe that the story is only getting better from here. We like to have a diversified portfolio of customers with little dependence on any one client. Nothing extraordinary happened in the fourth quarter of 2009 and we still had a good quarter. We at Ebix like it that way. I started on this journey of building Ebix in 1999 when this Company had reported $19 million in losses after 23 years of continuous losses. This has been a wonderful journey until now, but I believe Ebix still has a long way to go. With Ebix gaining in size, we're getting a lot more respectability from insurance companies today and our chances of landing large recurring deals have increased now. One of the advantages of having sold a variety of services, namely exchanges, back end systems, application software, BP services, et cetera , to a rather vast customer base across the world is that we now have a ready made customer base that we know well, who respects us, who has stayed with us, and who now can be targeted for cross-selling by us. That's a lot better than trying to randomly reach out to customers who would not know Ebix.

We believe that the next decade of growth in the insurance industry will come out of international markets like the BRIC countries, Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Accordingly, it is in our interest to position ourselves in these countries now to hopefully take advantage of being an early mover. Our recent acquisition of MCN in the first quarter of 2010 is a small step in that direction. MCN is a rather immaterial deal commercially today, but it gives us a base in Latin America and also gives us access to their existing relationships with all the top life and annuity carriers. The Latin America insurance market continued to grow in 2009 at a time when the insurance industry in the United States was heavily under pressure. We've taken some baby steps to position ourselves in these markets to hopefully become an exchange player in these markets.

Lastly, let me add that you can visit the investor home page on the Ebix site with a view the analyze Ebix further. The audio and text transcript of this call will be available on the investor home page at the Ebix website located on www.EBIX.com after 3 PM Eastern standard time.

And with that I'll hand it over back to the moderator to open the call for questions. Thank you.

(Operator Instructions). Our first question comes from Mike Latimore of Northland Securities. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning. Nice quarter. Just a question for you on gross margin. That was down a little bit sequentially. Just wondering if you can provide a little color on that change and whether that is perhaps a new run rate?

I think basically, what you're referring to is you've got to remember that in the fourth quarter of 2009, we took some one-time non-recurring charges related to the acquisition of Peak and E-Z Data. But having said that, Bob do you want to address this one further?

Yes, it's really an anomaly due to some one time non-recurring expenses associated with the acquisitions we made in the fourth quarter.

And that's shown in the cost of services?

Correct.

Okay. Got it. And then also, Robin, we're fairly far into the first quarter here, and I know you don't give guidance but can you give any kind of color as to some of the business activity, business trends, any kind of color on how things are starting off 2010?

We don't like to issue any guidance, as you know, and I would just tell you that we're going pretty strong. Ebix has been a story of consistency so having said that, I think, while we expect the trend to continue, the way we have continued strongly and through the year 2009, we expect 2010 to be even better.

And then just last question, FX influence on revenue, can you talk a little bit about what kind of benefit you might have had on revenue in terms of the FX influence?

This FX is a rather complicated issue, especially with the hedging that we have put in place. It depends on, if you, for example, I've not finished our analysis on it but if you looked at the full year analysis, for example,, our revenues could have been $1.87 million more if you took it on a constant currency basis. I've not finished the quarterly analysis yet because part of it is we will have to take hedging and so on.

But before we open up for more questions, I do want to say that we have a very long queue of people and we would like to give, almost 200 participants on the call today, we would like to make sure that everybody gets an opportunity, as many people get an opportunity. So I'm going to request each one of you to limit your question to one question. Mike, thank you for your questions.

Our next question comes from Greg Wilbur of Bay Area Microcap. Please go ahead.

Thank you. NASDAQ twice a month announces the short volume for each of the companies, and six months ago Ebix was in the 200,000 to 300,000 share with a two to three day to cover. Currently, it's over 10 million and 19 days. Could you comment on that short activity and your perspective on it?

Thank you, Greg. Thank you for your question. Let me try and be as honest as I can on this question and give you my personal feelings on this. Let me give you an example from one of my favorite sports that I like playing virtually every day, ping-pong. I play ping-pong almost every day and I like to win each time I play the sport. I believe that my chances of winning the match are higher if I respect the player I'm playing against and if I can learn from any mistakes that I might have, sometimes highlighted by my opponents play. I've always liked to play the game hard and fair. I don't want to win any other way.

I feel the same way about the short. They chose a direction that is opposite the direction that I support. I'm not so sure whether doing that makes them into an enemy of mine. I feel the shorts provide an important role in the stock market by providing a balance and an opposite view. Sometimes the short has good points which at least I've learned from, sometimes the shorts make you realize that you need to improve your communication and presentation skills, and sometimes the shorts are completely wrong. In our case, I believe that the shorts made us more aware of the need to improve our communication disclosure. Fortunately, a majority of the times, they were wrong but I believe that we are better off today as a company than we were before the shorts noticed us. I clearly feel they have a role to play in making us a better company today.

I think most of the issues raised by the shorts were more about disclosure and the polish in our presentations. We've tried to learn, adapt, while focusing on individual imperfections we might have had. I think more than anything, Greg, today we are more determined to succeed but I would like to keep playing fair and square. I have thought about this and as I think through this, I can tell you, I always believe that truth and cash can never be faked. They finally prevail. Consistent focus on fundamentals, I believe, is finally going to prevail over everything else. I used to study this Latin American intellectual, Jose Marti, and I remember a quote he made, and I'm going to repeat his quote. "Like stones rolling down hills, fair ideas reach their objectives despite all obstacles and barriers." It may be possible to speed or handle them but finally it's impossible to stop them. So I think that's the way I feel about the shorts. Hopefully I gave you an answer, Greg.

Yes, but in a related question, I notice that in the last three years the audit firms have changed three times. Perhaps that's a cause of concern by some who are shorting and took that action for that reason.

I think, first of all, our audit firms haven't really changed. Our past audit firm was acquired by another firm and the partners remain the same. It was simply the name change middle of the quarter to HAW Having said that, I think we continue like any other firm, we are very sensitive to cost, quality of audits and so on. I think we are one of the few firms who continues to use all the past firms we have used across -- forget three years -- across the last seven years, I would say. As I said in my talk, for example, meaning let's step back and look at 2003. We were using (inaudible) and (inaudible) today still is our auditor and in multiple countries as I said earlier, across the world. HAW in the year 2009 itself we hired them back for some tax related work. And of course with CBX we continue to maintain excellent arms length relationship. So I think it's like any other firm and the fact that all our past firms work for us today in one capacity or another, it speaks for itself about the nature of our relationship with them or the nature of the relationship we always had with them. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Marty Heiman of Cougar Trading. Please go ahead.

Thanks very much. Could you speak a little bit to the organic growth rate Q4 specifically year to year, the impact of the acquisitions during the quarter?

Marti, this is one question, I hate to say it, but I will answer this, and the reason I hate to say this is because sometimes when companies talk about organic growth rate, people want to anyway do their own analysis. So my suggestion always to them is there are lots of analysts out there and you can also (inaudible) so people can do their own analysis. Our analysis, actually, incidentally tells us that the organic growth rate was somewhere beyond 14% but I think I'll let the analysts worry about this. We'll continue working on our fundamentals and keep doing, keep growing the business.

Any comments about the expected growth from Peak and E-Z into 2010?

I think they were both fantastic acquisitions. We're very pleased with both of them. I think E-Z Data was easily one of our most strategic acquisitions we have made in the last decade or so. I think the beauty of what we did with E-Z Data is that we are now gatekeepers to data for a live broker or for an investment advisor, or in the field of wealth management, we basically control data flow in and out of that. It clearly increases our chances of selling exchange services. On a (inaudible) basis, since we already were dominating in the exchange market, our chances of selling more CRM systems in an on demand manner completely interfaced into exchange have increased dramatically. We're extremely pleased with the progress, how it has gone on, the response that we'll see from the larger carrier audience. So we expect 2010 to be a very good year for both Peak and E-Z Data.

Thank you.

Our next question comes from Vincent Coppazi of Kovack Securities.

Yes, hi, Robin. How you doing today? I wanted to say it seemed like a very good quarter you had and I appreciate that. We really like that. Your revenues from the fourth quarter of '08 to the fourth quarter of '09 increased 55%, but your accounts receivable less deferred revenues increased 85%. Can you answer to why there's a discrepancy there and tell us where the DSOs are?

Yes, I'll let Bob answer this.

I'll speak to it. Our DSO at the end of the year was 67 days and this is up slightly about five days from the same level of last year. And we look at this increase as being a temporary matter as we continue to integrate our acquired customer bases into the Company and into our processes.

Vincent, part of it is that when you make these acquisitions and you have to remember that as your revenue you're suddenly having increases in revenue and there will be a cycle that it will take to set it up. It's like anything else. That's why you see a bit of a Q coming up but I think we have fantastic, if you look at our history and you forget one or two years, to look at a decade and look at our collection record, we've never had any material issue on anything virtually so we're pretty pleased with that and we believe we'll continue moving. I think our relationship, we're so well entrenched in that space that really, believe me, we do not spend any time internally worrying about collection issues in this Company.

Good, thank you.

Our next question comes from Kevin Cook who is a private investor. Please go ahead.

I might have missed this in the call but I didn't hear you say anything about the sales growth rate. Members have stayed with you but have you been increasing sales as well as increasing the amount of money you're making off them?

Kevin, I'm going to encourage you to read through the transcript. I spoke at length about revenue increases and so on and I would highly encourage you to read that.

But what about revenue, is it greater margins or are you selling more?

Both. We're selling more. Our margins are going up meaning our revenues, we're selling more, our marketing group, the size of our sales team has increased meaning if you compare almost the last two quarters, we've doubled our sales teams across the world, virtually doubled it. And our marketing size, the size of our marketing teams have increased. We've made some very strong investments in senior managers across the world, especially in the last, I would say, 180 days, and that is starting to show results. We're continuously seeing new contracts.

Just look at some of the deals for example. I think in December, we were talking about the deals we just signed since October, meaning we are continuing to sign a who's who of the insurance industry or in the investment industry. And keep in mind some of those deals have not generated revenue yet. Meaning when you sign some of the larger deals and some of the larger names that we have signed on our exchanges, on our CRM, those deals only start delivering revenue once we have gotten them up and live and running in production. It takes us a period of four to five months at times to get them up and running. So we believe in 2010, you're going to see all of the benefits from all of the deals we have announced. We don't announce that many deals but I think last year we announced, we almost talked about 40 new contracts, virtually in all kinds of areas and they're all bound to give us revenue in 2010.

Great. Thanks.

Our next question comes from Scott Kirk of T Cap. Please go ahead.

Yes, my questions have been answered, thank you.

I'm showing no further questions at this time, sir.

Excellent. I want to thank you, everybody for being on the call, since we don't see anymore questions at this time--

I am showing one more. Did you want to take it, sir?

Sure we will.

Okay I'm showing a question from Kent Holden of HAM Funds. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning. Congratulations on the quarter. Going back to the Cougar Trading question, can you give us the revenue for those two acquisitions during fourth quarter?

I think we don't break our revenue by acquisition and we basically, as the K comes out you'll get a better understanding of it. We break our revenue by channel so you will see that in the K.

Okay, and then do you have a geographic breakdown of the revenue?

Yes, we will. In our K, we will give you the geographic background, so in a few days you'll see the K come out.

All right, thank you.

I am showing another question, sir, from David Schiller of Quad Capital. Please go ahead.

Hi. Could you just comment on the relationships with your customer AIG. Some have been concerned they were a pretty sizeable customer for you today. The acquisition they announced with MetLife, is there any impact to you guys?

First of all, I think it's a very good development for us. The good news is, MetLife is a very large customer of ours. MetLife and AIG both are very important customers. MetLife is actually a slightly larger customer than AIG. AIG does not account for more than 1% of our revenue. It's actually less than 1% of our revenue. As AIG broke into various organizations this year, it actually was not a bad development for us. Each of those companies signed an individual deal with us. Our revenue from AIG in the year, we are expecting our revenue to be at least 40% higher than in 2009 from AIG alone. And the simple reason ism, as AIG ran into the issues that they ran into, they focused a lot on productivity and we gave them a few ideas on how we can make their business a little bit more productive in some of the areas that we work with them on, and they took us on it. And each of those companies signed contracts with them.

Now, having said that, MetLife is one of our very key customers on many fronts. To give you an example, I just came out of a CRM conference where MetLife gave a presentation and talked about how committed they are to the Ebix CRM solution. Met Life has tens of thousands of life agents in the US and investment advisors that they work with, and they are heavily committed to Ebix. So I think it's actually not a bad development for us. Either way it would have been good for us.

Got it. Thank you.

And I am actually showing another question from Simon Baruch, a private investor. Please go ahead.

Hi, Robin. You mentioned some financial organizations outside the insurance business. I assume maybe you mean banks, for example. Do you see that becoming a significant part of Ebix's revenue in the future?

Simon, that's a great question. First of all, it is starting to become a decent part of our revenue even today. Some of the exchange services we provide, we provide it to broker dealers, we provide it to investment advisors. We are more and more getting committed to the wealth management space. So take some of the larger banks, when you consider players like Banc of America, US Bank, Merrill Lynch, Wachovia Securities and I could give you lots of names like that, Ameriprise, they are all our clients today, and we're seeing a lot of activity in this space. We also believe that in coming years, you see what is happening is there is a very thin line dividing insurance, investments and long term savings. In each of these areas there's a lot of cross selling opportunities and a lot of these financial institutions and banks are trying to cross-sell and that's where Ebix comes in. Because Ebix understands all these three segments, Ebix can continue to allow them to cross sell.

Now, one of the things that we'll keep, as we keep defining ourselves more and more in coming days, you could see us taking a larger space with these banks, investment advisors and so on, in the area of, one is CRM, one is exchanges, you could see us launch newer products, newer services in the on demand service market related to, for example, I'll give you simple answer like servicing of an annuity policy or compliance issues related to them. Don't be surprised even if you see us slightly going into the area of banking a little bit, simply because the area of bank assurance is key. When you look at it that way, that banks like HSBC, we have worked with banks like HSBC for such a long time, and we have done pieces of bank assurance for them across the world and we're now trying to evaluate whether we want to take a larger position in that bank assurance play, and play more in that market. Thank you, Simon.

Thank you.

And I'm showing another question from [Eric Mathewson] of Crescent Capital. Please go ahead.

Good morning, Robin. Congrats again on the quarter. Could you spend a second on your exchange model and how you're paid and how that typically works? I'm just curious as to how much leverage you have beyond what you've already experienced.

It's a very detailed answer but I'll try and cover it at a very high level and after that if you still feel like you have more questions I think we'll take it off line. But at a high level we make money three different ways in exchanges from all our clients. One is we get paid for transactions and those transactions are in a tiered basis. We define minimum volumes, minimum tiers every year, based on that whether there's one transaction or X number of transactions, if they fell into that tier they give us that kind of money, and once they cross that tier they pay us extra amount of money. That's one way we make money. We also make money -- transaction can also be, what is a transaction? Transaction can be anything. Transaction could be a (inaudible) exam, transaction could be a (inaudible) policy being signed. Transaction could be a servicing of an annuity, transaction could be simply a pre-sales transaction. It could be anything and we make money at multiple points. Who pays for it? The transaction could be paid for by the insurance company, could be paid for by the branch, by the broker dealer, it could be by the broker itself. Now sometimes a carrier might say that I want to pay for both sides because the broker is a very important broker for me and I'll pay for their side of the transaction too. That's a carrier choice so that's one way we make money.

The second way we make money is carriers. More and more as our platform becomes a standard in the industry, carriers and banks and all of the broker dealers are very interested to make sure that this product, this service continuously is in compliance with regulations, it's continuously getting enhanced with each and every passing day. So what they do, we have formed a user group. All these users get together, pay a membership fee to become a user, they actually fund that development. All of the development we do on an ongoing basis in the area of enhancement, customization gets funded by all these large insurance companies or banks and they then divide the cost amongst them. And that is also another source of assured revenue to us.

Beyond that there is non-recurring charges which could be some amount of customization, where they actually come to us at times and say can you interface this platform, can you build workflows for us, or something like that. And that's all non-recurring so that's another way we make money. So in terms of leverage, you see, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, meaning Ebix philosophy has never been to misuse our dominance. If your question is could we increase our prices, sure we could increase our prices and maybe get away with it. The question is we have always tried to be reasonable. We will never just increase prices just for the sake of it and make use of our dominance. We will increase prices as we go along in a sensible manner as long as it is sensible and we clearly will do that, but I don't think we want to do it at a cost of sounding that we are a dominant player so we're mis-using our strength. Thank you.

Thank you.

Now I'm showing no further questions, sir.

Thank you. Having said that, we would bring the call to a close today. Thank you for attending our annual investor call. We will be talking soon. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude today's conference. You may now disconnect and have a wonderful day.