DISH Network Corp (DISH) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the DISH Network Corporation Q3 2023 Earnings Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Tim Messner, EVP and General Counsel. Please go ahead, sir.

您好，歡迎參加 DISH Network Corporation 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製。現在，我想將會議交給執行副總裁兼總法律顧問 Tim Messner。先生，請繼續。

Thanks, Cynthia. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. We're joined on the call today by Charlie Ergen, our Chairman; John Swieringa, our President of Technology and COO; Paul Orban, our CFO; Tom Cullen, EVP of Corporate Development; Mike Kelly, EVP and Group President of Retail Wireless; and Gary Schanman, Group President of Video Services.

謝謝，辛西亞。大家早安。感謝您的加入。今天我們的董事長 Charlie Ergen 也參加了電話會議；我們的技術總裁兼營運長 John Swieringa；我們的財務長 Paul Orban；湯姆‧卡倫 (Tom Cullen)，企業發展執行副總裁； Mike Kelly，Retail Wireless 執行副總裁兼集團總裁；以及視訊服務集團總裁 Gary Schanman。

Before we start, I need to remind you of our safe harbors. During this call, we may make forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from historical results or from our forecast. We assume no responsibility for updating forward-looking statements. For more information on factors that may affect future results, please refer to our SEC filings.

在我們開始之前，我需要提醒你我們的安全港。在本次電話會議中，我們可能會做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，可能導致我們的實際結果與歷史結果或我們的預測有重大差異。我們不承擔更新前瞻性陳述的責任。有關可能影響未來結果的因素的更多信息，請參閱我們的 SEC 文件。

We don't have any prepared remarks this morning, so with that, we'll open it up to questions, starting with the analyst community. Thank you.

今天早上我們沒有任何準備好的發言，因此，我們將開始接受提問，首先是分析師群體。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, I do apologize. There was a technical situation. (Operator Instructions) Okay, we will now begin taking questions from the analyst community. (Operator Instructions) Our first analyst question comes from Walter Piecyk with LightShed. Walter, if you could please check your mute button. We are not getting a response from your line. I am not hearing a response. We will move to our next question, and our next question comes from Michael Rollins with Citi.

女士們、先生們，我深感抱歉。出現了技術問題。 （操作員指示）好的，我們現在開始回答分析師社群的問題。 （操作員指示）我們的第一個分析師問題來自 LightShed 的 Walter Piecyk。沃特，請你檢查一下你的靜音按鈕。我們沒有收到您的回覆。我沒有聽到回應。我們將進入下一個問題，下一個問題來自花旗的邁克爾羅林斯。

I was curious if you could talk more about the retail results for Wireless in the quarter. And can you frame what's happening on the subscriber side? What's happening in terms of the EBITDA burn and then break out the Boost Infinite component of those results?

我很好奇您是否可以進一步談談本季無線零售業績。您能描述一下訂閱端發生的情況嗎？ EBITDA 消耗方面發生了什麼情況？

This is Mike Kelly. On the Boost Wireless side, I would say this is my first full quarter on the job. There's a lot of discipline that we brought back into the sales channel over the quarter, which resulted in less net adds than we expected. We put discipline back into the sales process that I felt was necessary. We focused on putting devices in the hands of our customers that we'll load on the 5G network going forward. We realigned our dealer compensation for the period, with the goal of acquiring profitable customers going forward. And we put back in control that we felt was necessary for profitable customers going forward. Paul, if you want to talk a little bit about the EBITDA?

這是麥克凱利。就 Boost Wireless 方面而言，我想說這是我工作的第一個完整季度。本季度，我們對銷售管道重新實施了嚴格的紀律，導致淨增額低於我們的預期。我們將紀律重新引入銷售流程中，我認為這是必要的。我們專注於將設備交到客戶手中，並將其載入到5G網路上。我們重新調整了這段期間的經銷商薪酬，目標是在未來獲得有利可圖的客戶。我們重新實施了控制措施，我們認為這對於未來獲利的客戶來說是必要的。保羅，你想談談 EBITDA 嗎？

Yes. So marketing was higher for the quarter. As Mike alluded to, with the change in the commission structure, it was elevated in Q3. You will see that abate in Q4 as we get fully under the new commission structure. And also, as Mike alluded to, as it relates to equipment COGS, that was high for the quarter because we had a higher percent of handsets that had our 5G or that are capable to work on our 5G network deployed that will help us in future quarters as we'll get owner economics on those phones.

是的。因此本季的營銷費用更高。正如麥克所提到的，隨著佣金結構的變化，佣金在第三季有所上升。當我們完全採用新的佣金結構時，您會看到第四季度這種情況有所緩解。而且，正如麥克所提到的，就設備銷貨成本而言，本季的設備銷貨成本很高，因為我們有更高比例的手機配備了我們的 5G 功能或能夠在我們部署的 5G 網路上運行，這將有助於我們在未來幾個季度獲得這些手機的所有者經濟效益。

And just 1 follow-up. If you look at the current base of Boost subs, 7.5 million, and the revenue that they're generating, is there a path just for that portion of the business to get that to be significantly profitable again and that can fund the subscriber acquisition for new Boost Infinite opportunities? Or is it that the current business is dealing with just a higher recurring cost than maybe we've seen over the last couple of years?

並且僅 1 次後續行動。如果您看一下 Boost 目前 750 萬的訂閱用戶群以及他們所創造的收入，是否有辦法讓這部分業務再次獲得可觀的利潤，並為新的 Boost Infinite 機會的訂閱用戶獲取提供資金？還是說目前業務面臨的經常性成本比過去幾年更高？

Yes, this is Charlie. I'll maybe turn it over to Mike. I'd say a couple of things. One is that the CDMA shutoff that happened, that was kind of devastating for what we expected because we had to replace all those customers with new phones. So we missed the cycle of -- had that been happening today, we could put them on phones that were compatible with our network. But obviously, when that was done well over a year ago, there were no phones that were compatible with our network. So for the most part, those 7.5 million customers, the vast majority of them did not have phones compatible with our network.

是的，這是查理。我可能會把它交給麥克。我想說幾件事。一是 CDMA 停運，這對我們來說是一個毀滅性的打擊，因為我們必須為所有這些客戶更換新手機。所以我們錯過了這個週期——如果這件事今天發生，我們就可以把它們放在與我們的網路相容的手機上。但顯然，當一年前實現這一目標時，還沒有手機與我們的網路相容。因此，對於這 750 萬客戶來說，絕大多數人的手機都不相容於我們的網路。

So that's an upgrade cycle and that set of economics that we'll be able to do a portion of those but not the vast majority of that would be my guess because we missed that cycle. So that's why we fought so hard to hold T-Mobile to what they had said under penalty of perjury to the California regulators.

所以這是一個升級週期和一套經濟學，我們將能夠完成其中的一部分，但不是絕大多數，我猜測因為我們錯過了那個週期。這就是為什麼我們如此努力地要求 T-Mobile 遵守他們對加州監管機構做出的偽證處罰規定。

When Mike came in and he didn't -- I'll give him a little bit more credit than maybe the Street's giving them right now, but the customers that we have, that -- we were getting customers. We just weren't sure which ones were the good -- some customers we made money on and some we didn't. And so I think now everybody we're putting on now, for the most part, we have high expectation that we'll make money either because they're on our network or because they're on an MVNO but they're just a different class of customer. And so some of that's discipline in how you do it.

當麥克加入的時候，他沒有——我會給他比華爾街現在給予的更多的信任，但我們擁有的客戶，我們正在獲得客戶。我們只是不確定哪些是好的──有些客戶讓我們賺錢，有些卻沒有。因此我認為現在我們對每個客戶都抱有很高的期望，希望他們能夠賺錢，因為他們使用我們的網絡，或使用 MVNO，但他們只是不同類別的客戶。所以這其中有些是關於你如何做事的紀律。

Some of the commission structure that he alluded to, for retailers, they were incentivized to get a customer but they weren't necessarily incentivized to keep the customer. That's changed. They're incentivized to keep the customer today, and they have a lot of control over what customers they put on. So those are things that certainly my fault for not being more on top of that in the earlier years, but Mike has come in and made those changes. And so that's going to -- we'll have better performance as a result of that on both prepaid and postpaid.

他提到的一些佣金結構，對零售商來說，他們有動力去獲得一個客戶，但不一定有動力去留住這個客戶。這已經改變了。他們有動力留住今天的客戶，對於要服務哪些客戶，他們有很大的控制權。所以這些事情肯定是我的錯，因為我早年沒有更多地關注這些事情，但是麥克的到來做出了這些改變。因此，無論是預付費還是後付費，我們的業績都會更好。

Our next question comes from Walter Piecyk with LightShed.

我們的下一個問題來自 LightShed 的 Walter Piecyk。

Just a question, I guess, in general, about the postpaid business. I mean, the value proposition is obviously very compelling but it just feels like no one really knows about it. It's on the Amazon homepage is not really there. Just curious, is there a plan for the ad spend to increase? And if so, how much flexibility do you have in terms of that spend? And then I guess related, CapEx-wise, how much can you cut? i mean, obviously the CapEx is already starting to come down. But when we head into 2024, how much -- how many of the available dollars do you have that you can cut out of CapEx so you can actually use it to tell people about the $25 a month service?

我猜這只是一個關於後付費業務的一般問題。我的意思是，這個價值主張顯然非常引人注目，但感覺好像沒有人真正了解它。它在亞馬遜主頁上，但實際上並不存在。只是好奇，有沒有增加廣告支出的計畫？如果是的話，那麼在支出方面您有多少彈性？然後我猜，從資本支出來看，你能削減多少？我的意思是，顯然資本支出已經開始下降了。但是，當我們進入 2024 年時，您可以從資本支出中削減多少可用資金，以便真正用它來告訴人們每月 25 美元的服務？

Well, I would say, first on the Amazon relationship, I would say we do have flexibility in terms of how we continue to evolve and build out the store front. A lot of things came together on a very short period of time towards the end of the quarter. We continue to work with Amazon to improve the overall storefront presentation. So you'll continue to see that evolve this quarter. And with respect to advertising, we do have a relationship with Amazon to focus on acquiring customers through that channel, so we'll be working with their advertising sales team as well.

嗯，首先我想說，關於與亞馬遜的關係，我想說我們在如何繼續發展和拓展店面方面確實具有靈活性。在本季末的很短時間內，很多事情都聚集在一起了。我們將繼續與亞馬遜合作，改善整體店面展示。因此您將在本季度繼續看到這種發展。至於廣告，我們確實與亞馬遜有合作關係，並專注於透過該管道獲取客戶，因此我們也將與他們的廣告銷售團隊合作。

This is Paul, I'll take the CapEx question. CapEx, we do expect it to decrease in Q4 and then going into 2024, it'll decrease also. What you're seeing is it's cash CapEx so you had a timing issue. So most of what's paid in Q3 really related to Q2 deployments.

我是保羅，我將回答資本支出問題。資本支出，我們確實預計它會在第四季度下降，然後到 2024 年也會下降。您看到的是現金資本支出，因此您有時間問題。因此，第三季支付的大部分款項實際上與第二季的部署有關。

It's more of a 10,000-foot question, I think, and -- go ahead, sorry Charlie.

我認為，這更像是一個高深莫測的問題，而且——繼續說吧，對不起，查理。

Go ahead, Walt.

繼續吧，沃爾特。

I think it's more of a 10,000-foot question, not like timing of this quarter versus next, but like if you were spending whatever it is, [2 7] to [2 5], like can you take that down to $1 billion for next year, $500 million? Like how low can you go so you have those dollars to kind of use to tell people about the service? Because it seems like the service, again, offering is compelling. It's just like how do people find out about it?

我認為這更像是一個萬英尺的問題，不是本季度還是下個季度的時間問題，而是如果你的支出是 [2 7] 到 [2 5] 之間的任何數字，那麼你能將明年的支出降至 10 億美元，即 5 億美元嗎？例如，您可以把價格降到多低，以便有足夠的錢來向人們介紹這項服務？因為看起來，所提供的服務再次引人注目。就像人們是如何發現它的？

Yes. Look, constructive criticism. Are we doing a great job of marketing? The answer is no, okay? Can we do -- the messaging probably wasn't -- didn't have quite the desired effect as you said because people don't know about it. And let me give you examples. If you walk into an Apple Store today, you can't buy Boost, right? You buy our competitor's. And when you go to their home page digitally, you can't buy Boost today. We're not even integrated into their system because that takes time, takes an investment on their part. So we're hopeful that, obviously, they will support us there.

是的。看，建設性的批評。我們的行銷工作做得很好嗎？答案是否定的，好嗎？我們能做什麼——訊息傳遞可能沒有——正如你所說，沒有達到預期的效果，因為人們不知道它。讓我給你舉幾個例子。如果你今天走進 Apple Store，你是買不到 Boost 的，對嗎？您購買我們競爭對手的產品。當你以數位方式存取他們的主頁時，你今天無法購買 Boost。我們甚至沒有融入他們的系統，因為這需要時間，需要他們的投資。因此，我們充滿希望，他們顯然會支持我們。

So we're not hitting on all cylinders there. That's kind of the bad news. The good news is, is we've made -- we do it right online. We make that a better experience than going to a store. And that's the strategy that we have to have. We have to make online, whether it be Amazon or other partners, right? That experience be better for most people than go into a store and waiting in line and so forth. If we do that, we'll be very successful. And there has to be messaging and marketing and things to make that happen.

因此，我們並沒有全力以赴。這真是個壞消息。好消息是，我們已經在網路上做到了這一點。我們致力於創造比去商店更好的體驗。這就是我們必須採取的策略。我們必須做線上，不管是亞馬遜還是其他合作夥伴，對嗎？對大多數人來說，這種體驗比走進商店排隊等要好。如果我們這樣做，我們就會非常成功。並且必須有訊息傳遞和行銷以及其他東西來實現這一點。

But having said that, that's the strategy. If you -- what's nice about that is in a funny sort of way is we could hit the ground running a lot faster if we had 5,000 stores in postpaid, but we don't. On the other hand, if you make the online process better, you're going to wish you didn't have 5,000 stores. Talk to the book stores of the world about that, right? So we think we are where the puck is going. We think we're in the right place. When we make it -- when it works, it really works and it's a great experience.

但話雖如此，這就是策略。如果你——有趣的是，如果我們有 5,000 家商店採用後付費服務，我們可以更快地開始運營，但我們沒有。另一方面，如果您改善線上流程，您會希望您沒有 5,000 家商店。和世界各地的書店討論此事，對嗎？所以我們認為我們已經到達冰球要去的地方。我們認為我們是在正確的地方。當我們成功實現它時，它確實有效，而且是一次很棒的體驗。

There are a ton of issues, but some on our side, some on our partner's side that we still have to correct operationally because we would have liked to add a few more months to -- before we went out to the public, but iPhone came out on a certain date. We had to meet that date, right, or else we would miss that wave. So we felt like we needed to be there. So we're a little ahead of our skis.

存在大量問題，有些是我們這邊的，有些是我們合作夥伴那邊的，我們仍需在運營上予以糾正，因為我們本來希望能在向公眾推出產品之前再拖延幾個月，但 iPhone 必須在某個日期上市。我們必須趕在那個日期之前完成，對吧，否則我們就會錯過那波浪潮。所以我們覺得我們需要去那裡。因此，我們比滑雪板領先了一點。

It's a little bit like -- but having -- and so we're making a few more mistakes than we probably normally would like to make, but we're fairly fast and we're learning and I think that will pay off for us. So I think strategically, Walt, we're on the right side. I think any criticism on the marketing side is well received here in terms of we know we need to do better there, and we know that the messaging has to be fine-tuned. And it's not just the messaging, it's the operations. It's how you promote it. It's 2 or 3 different things in our company with our partners working together to do that. We haven't quite cracked that yet but we will.

這有點像——但是——所以我們犯的錯誤比我們通常願意犯的錯誤要多一些，但我們速度相當快，我們正在學習，我認為這會給我們帶來回報。因此我認為，沃爾特，從戰略上來說，我們站在正確的一邊。我認為，任何關於行銷方面的批評都會得到很好的接受，因為我們知道我們需要在這方面做得更好，我們也知道訊息傳遞需要微調。這不僅涉及訊息傳遞，還涉及操作。關鍵在於你如何推廣它。我們公司與合作夥伴共同進行了兩到三種不同的工作。我們尚未完全解決這個問題但我們會的。

And how low can you get CapEx, Charlie, for '24?

查理，24 年你能將資本支出降到多低？

Well, I mean, I think nothing's changed -- actually, something did change a little bit. We've said $10 billion on the CapEx side. We're obviously short of that. The Puerto Rico sale, I mean, you're more familiar with that than I am so maybe I'll let you talk about that. That helps a little on the CapEx side.

嗯，我的意思是，我認為什麼都沒有改變——事實上，確實發生了一點改變。我們說過資本支出方面是 100 億美元。我們顯然還缺少這一點。波多黎各的銷售，我的意思是，你比我更熟悉這個，所以也許我會讓你談論這個。這對資本支出方面有一點幫助。

Yes. I don't know that Paul's willing to give guidance on total CapEx for next year. But we announced the Puerto Rico sale this morning. We have a lot of experience in Puerto Rico over the years with Pay-TV and the last couple of years with Wireless. It's a challenging market. It's a very competitive market. It has weather challenges as well. The build-out would be expensive. So we thought it best to enter into a transaction, which gives Liberty a much more competitive spectrum position, frees up -- brings us new capital in terms of the sale proceeds as well as pretty significant capital savings from not having to build on both the islands, which are very expensive builds and higher-than-average OpEx. So by entering into the transaction, we'll now be able to focus those funds back into the Continental U.S.

是的。我不知道保羅是否願意為明年的總資本支出提供指導。但我們今天早上宣布了波多黎各的出售。我們在波多黎各多年來在付費電視領域累積了豐富的經驗，最近幾年又在無線領域累積了豐富的經驗。這是一個充滿挑戰的市場。這是一個競爭非常激烈的市場。它也面臨天氣挑戰。擴建將會十分昂貴。因此，我們認為最好的辦法是進行交易，這將為 Liberty 帶來更具競爭力的頻譜地位，從而釋放銷售收益，為我們帶來新的資本，同時由於不必在兩個島嶼上建設而節省了大量的資本，而這兩個島嶼的建設成本非常高，運營支出也高於平均水平。因此，透過進行交易，我們現在能夠將這些資金重新集中到美國本土。

But I mean, the big picture, Walt I think I understand your question. We have several levers, right, that -- to manage cash. One of those is marketing and just the stack in terms of acquiring customers. The more profitable customers, the faster you want to go. The more marginal customer is probably the slower you go, but it depends on how our total operations are doing.

但是我的意思是，從總體上看，沃爾特，我想我明白你的問題了。我們有幾個槓桿，對吧，用來管理現金。其中之一就是行銷和獲取客戶方面的措施。獲利的客戶越多，你就越想走得快。邊際客戶越多，速度可能越慢，但這取決於我們的整體營運狀況。

And then CapEx, where we've met our major milestone. It's not that expensive for us to make the next milestone because it's -- we've done the hard -- we've done the heavy lifting. On the other hand, you want to continue to invest in your network because you want to move people to -- off the MVNO. So you have to -- we have to balance those levers. And so it's not an easy answer, other than you can expect CapEx will continue to decline the rest of this year and into 2024 before you'll see an uptick in the first half of '25 for a couple of quarters as we finish that final build-out milestone. So we'll free up. It will free up capital and how that gets spent will be dependent on how well we're doing in our business.

然後是資本支出，我們在這方面達到了重要的里程碑。對我們來說，實現下一個里程碑並不需要花費太多的成本，因為我們已經完成了艱難的任務，完成了繁重的工作。另一方面，您希望繼續投資您的網絡，因為您希望讓人們脫離 MVNO。所以你必須——我們必須平衡這些槓桿。因此，這不是一個簡單的答案，除了你可以預期資本支出將在今年剩餘時間和 2024 年繼續下降，然後隨著我們完成最後的建設里程碑，你會看到 25 年上半年幾個季度的上升。這樣我們就解放了。它將釋放資本，如何使用這些資本將取決於我們的業務進度。

If you don't mind, just going to try 1 more angle on this, which is I know you've been generally adverse to basically giving away phones, right, using working capital, whether it's payment plans or just literally subsidizing phones like, what AT&T does to a certain extent with these existing customers. Now that you've had the offer in the market, is it just a recognition of people seeing the $25 and activating a second SIM or whatever it is versus are you starting to think that maybe being more aggressive with spending capital and basically giving away free phones or at least subsidizing a portion of them is going to be necessary to get some traction going on the postpaid side?

如果您不介意的話，我只想再嘗試從另一個角度來談談這個問題，我知道您通常不願意使用營運資金免費贈送手機，無論是支付計劃還是直接補貼手機，就像 AT&T 在一定程度上對這些現有客戶所做的那樣。現在你們已經在市場上推出了這項優惠，這是否只是對那些看到 25 美元並激活第二張 SIM 卡或其他什麼東西的人的認可，還是你們開始認為也許有必要更積極地投入資金，基本上免費贈送手機或至少補貼一部分手機，以便在後付費方面取得一些進展？

Yes. I mean, look, we're realists that nobody really subsidizes a phone, right? They obviously charge a customer for the phone. So we're not opposed to that. I mean, that -- but when you have your own -- when we have our owner economics, you realize our variable cost for that customer, our variable cost is zero. So there's a lot of interesting things we can do as we move into -- this question hadn't been asked but I think I'm just going to transition this because I think it's important indirectly to this question.

是的。我的意思是，看，我們是現實主義者，沒有人真正補貼手機，對吧？他們顯然向顧客收取電話費。所以我們並不反對這一點。我的意思是，但是當你有自己的——當我們有自己的所有者經濟學時，你就會意識到我們對於該客戶的變動成本，我們的變動成本為零。因此，我們可以做很多有趣的事情——這個問題還沒有被問到，但我想我只是要轉換一下，因為我認為這對這個問題間接地很重要。

So we transition -- as we transition people to our network, the world changes for us economically. And John, maybe John is our President and Chief Operating Officer and has all the build-out the -- and as he's in the budget cycle pretty heavily now, we'll probably get -- maybe you want to jump in here and give us -- to maybe better answer Walt's question to give a feel for how that -- how you look at it.

因此我們進行轉型——隨著我們將人們轉移到我們的網絡，世界在經濟上也發生了變化。約翰，也許約翰是我們的總裁兼首席營運官，並且已經做好了所有的準備——而且由於他現在正處於預算週期中，我們可能會——也許你想加入進來並給我們——也許更好地回答沃爾特的問題，以了解你是如何看待它的。

Yes, of course. Thanks, Charlie, and Hey Walt, thanks for the questions today. So really, I'm working on a 3-legged stool. The first piece is we've got a little over 120 million commercial VoNR ops today, about 1/3 of the country, where we have voice and data which is needed for Boost Mobile and Boost Infinite. We're going to take that another 1/3 up to 240 million by June. So you can sort of see our trajectory there in terms of where we get to sort of full M&O economics in our retail business.

是的當然。謝謝，查理，嘿，沃特，謝謝你今天提出的問題。所以實際上我正在製作一張三條腿的凳子。首先，我們目前擁有超過 1.2 億個商業 VoNR 操作，約佔全國的 1/3，擁有 Boost Mobile 和 Boost Infinite 所需的語音和數據。到六月，我們將再增加 1/3，達到 2.4 億。因此，您可以看到我們在零售業務中實現全面 M&O 經濟的發展軌跡。

But at the same time, and I've talked about this on earlier calls, there's been a lot of focus on getting the device ecosystem where it needs to be there to support us. And right now, to give you a feel for, about 1/3 of the devices we activate are compatible with our network, 5G SA, our Spectrum bands, those sorts of things. And again, up to June next year, we'll move that to 2/3, right? So that's another sizable shift with the support from the Android community. Obviously, you saw the news on the iPhone. And so we're working through the device side of it as well. And the impact of that is as we bring in new customers, the economics change dramatically. We expect to be able to see that as we head towards next June. But in addition, the other effect, and I think a few of the analysts wrote about this, this morning in early reports, we get to take a sizable chunk out of our MVNO bill. So we -- as we look at that, we see that going down by 1/3 as we get to June of next year. So those 3 things together really sort of change the trajectory in the retail business. And I think where you started is the idea that where do we find capital to invest, and those are a few areas to look at and model around that.

但同時，我在之前的電話會議上已經談到了這一點，我們非常關注將設備生態系統放到需要的地方來支持我們。現在，讓您感覺一下，我們啟動的設備中大約有 1/3 與我們的網路、5G SA、我們的頻譜頻段等相容。再說，到明年 6 月，我們會將其移至 2/3，對嗎？這是 Android 社​​群支持下的另一個重大轉變。顯然，您是在 iPhone 上看到的這個新聞。所以我們也在研究設備方面的問題。其影響是，隨著我們引進新客戶，經濟狀況發生巨大變化。我們期望在明年六月時能夠看到這一點。但除此之外，還有另一個影響，我認為一些分析師在今天早上的早期報告中寫到了這一點，我們可以從 MVNO 賬單中拿出相當大的一部分。因此，當我們觀察這一點時，我們發現到明年 6 月這一數字將下降 1/3。所以這三件事結合在一起確實改變了零售業的發展軌跡。我認為您開始的想法是我們在哪裡找到投資資本，這些是需要研究和建模的幾個領域。

Yes. So the big -- the picture is we have scale in June of next year. That's the scale. We're a year behind where we'd like to be for scale but we'll have scale next year, both the devices and the network. That network is about where Sprint was at the end. So now you have scale and your CapEx is primarily done. And you're only going to get -- you're only going to improve from the 2/3 that John is talking about. So that gives you a feel for it.

是的。所以整體來看，我們將在明年 6 月實現規模。這就是規模。我們在規模方面的目標已經落後了一年，但明年我們將實現規模，包括設備和網路。該網路與 Sprint 最終所處的位置大致相同。現在您已經有了規模，並且您的資本支出基本上已經完成。而你只會得到——你只會從約翰所說的 2/3 中得到進步。這樣您就可以感受到它了。

Our next question comes from Kannan Venkateshwar with Barclays.

下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 Kannan Venkateshwar。

Paul, maybe a couple for you. When we think about the S-4 projections that you provided with the EchoStar filing, it assumes sequentially an increase in losses -- a further increase in losses in Q4 in Wireless and you pointed to some tailwinds in costs in Q4. So if you could just help us reconcile the Q4 trends. And then as we look at the same projections for next year, there's a big acceleration in trends with respect to profitability. So if you could just help us understand the underlying assumptions in terms of volumes versus price and what you're assuming to get to those numbers, that would be very helpful.

保羅，也許你有幾個。當我們考慮您在 EchoStar 文件中提供的 S-4 預測時，它假設損失會連續增加 - 無線部門第四季度的損失進一步增加，並且您指出了第四季度成本的一些順風因素。所以如果您能幫助我們協調第四季度的趨勢的話。然後，當我們回顧明年的相同預測時，我們會發現獲利能力的趨勢將大幅加速。因此，如果您能幫助我們理解數量與價格的基本假設以及您對這些數字的假設，那將非常有幫助。

Well, overall, when you look at the forecast, there's going to be some puts and takes and the timing may change, but we believe the forecast that we had in the S-4 is still accurate. We'll continue to deploy in Q4 more towers and you'll have more OpEx, which will be helping to drag down our EBIT in the fourth quarter. And then as we grow, obviously, you're going to have sat and the costs that are related to growing the Boost Infinite and the Boost Mobile business in Q4 into Q1.

嗯，總的來說，當你查看預測時，會有一些變動，時間也可能會改變，但我們相信我們在 S-4 中的預測仍然是準確的。我們將在第四季度繼續部署更多的塔，您將有更多的營運支出，這將有助於拉低我們第四季的息稅前利潤。然後，隨著我們的成長，顯然，您將需要承擔與將第四季度的 Boost Infinite 和 Boost Mobile 業務發展到第一季相關的成本。

Got it. And then, Charlie, when you think about capital needs for next year and beyond, you obviously have the debt maturities and the EchoStar deal should help address some of it. But if you step back and think about maturities beyond that, there's obviously a big step-up in capital required even as your CapEx needs also potentially go up in '25 and beyond. So if you think about beyond '24, how should we think about the capital plan? How much of it is internally funded? How much of it is externally funded? And if you could just help us understand what your partnership options are or update us on that, that would be very helpful.

知道了。然後，查理，當你考慮明年及以後的資本需求時，你顯然有債務到期，而 EchoStar 交易應該有助於解決其中的一些問題。但如果你退一步考慮更長遠的期限，你會發現所需的資本顯然會大幅增加，即使你的資本支出需求在 25 年及以後也可能會增加。那麼，如果您考慮24年以後，我們應該如何考慮資本計畫？其中有多少是內部資助的？其中有多少是外部資助的？如果您能幫助我們了解您的合作選擇，或向我們通報最新情況，那將會非常有幫助。

Yes. I mean, obviously, 2026 is a pretty big wall in terms of assuming you didn't refinance anything, right? And obviously, a lot depends on where the markets are, right? So what we want to control is what we control. From an operations point of view, we've got to generate as much internal cash from our operations as we can. And the way I would say it is we have a narrow path but there is a path for us to achieve financial stability and make sure we meet our commitments.

是的。我的意思是，顯然，假設您沒有再融資任何東西，2026 年是一個相當大的障礙，對嗎？顯然，這很大程度上取決於市場在哪裡，對嗎？所以，我們想要控制的是我們能夠控制的。從營運的角度來看，我們必須盡可能從營運中產生內部現金。我想說的是，我們的道路很狹窄，但我們有一條路可以實現財務穩定，並確保我們履行承諾。

And so having been through this for a long time, we've had narrow paths before, and it's a sharp focus for your management and a necessity sometimes the mother of invention. So that -- we certainly look at 2026 as a challenge today. We expect that the market environment will be better in 2026 but there's no guarantee of that, obviously. If the market environment today was like it was the same in 2026, I think that would prove to be difficult for us based on our operations today.

因此，經歷了很長一段時間之後，我們之前走過的路很窄，這是管理中的一個重點，有時也是發明之母的必需品。所以——我們今天當然將 2026 年視為一個挑戰。我們預期 2026 年的市場環境會更好，但顯然這不能保證。如果今天的市場環境與 2026 年一樣，我認為根據我們今天的營運情況，這對我們來說將是困難的。

On the other hand, if your operations continue to improve and you show the market the trends and the financial trends based on having your own network and owner economics, and you continue the cash flow in your core businesses, then that's an achievable place to get to. And so my crystal ball believes that we can do that, right? But I know it's going to be a challenge for us, and we have a team that's going to be up to that.

另一方面，如果您的營運持續改善，並向市場展示基於您自己的網路和所有者經濟的趨勢和財務趨勢，並且您繼續在核心業務中產生現金流，那麼這是一個可以實現的目標。所以我的水晶球相信我們能做到這一點，對嗎？但我知道這對我們來說將是一個挑戰，我們有一支能夠勝任這項挑戰的團隊。

Our next question comes from John Hodulik with UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的 John Hodulik。

Maybe just a couple of follow-up to Walt's question. First of all, Charlie, can you guys talk about any traction you're seeing with the iPhone 15 promotion? And when you are winning customers on the Boost Infinite side, where are they coming from? And then just lastly, a clarification. What drives the uptake in compatible phones to 2/3? Is it just the availability of new phones that work on your network? Or I'm just wondering why sort of June is sort of magic we've been getting to that 2/3 number.

也許只是對 Walt 問題的幾個後續回答。首先，查理，你們能談談 iPhone 15 促銷活動帶來的吸引力嗎？當您在 Boost Infinite 方面贏得客戶時，他們來自哪裡？最後，我要澄清一下。是什麼推動相容手機的普及率達到 2/3？是否只是有可以在你們的網路上運行的新手機呢？或者我只是想知道為什麼六月會有這麼大的魔力，我們已經達到 2/3 這個數字了。

Well, this is Mike. Thanks for the question, John. Yes, we're seeing some traction on the iPhone 15. No surprise. Customers are attracted to the $60 offer and to the iPhone upgrade every year offer. We're still working through -- as Charlie mentioned earlier, this is -- we're a digitally-native selling direct process. So it's new to us. We're still working through some of the operational kinks, but we're making progress there. So I think -- so again, demand is coming from the other carriers. And certainly, we're seeing some demand coming from the relationship that we have with Amazon and marketing it into the Amazon base.

嗯，這是麥克。謝謝你的提問，約翰。是的，我們看到 iPhone 15 有一些吸引力。 60 美元的優惠和每年 iPhone 升級優惠吸引了顧客。我們仍在努力 — — 正如查理之前提到的 — — 我們是一個數位原生的直接銷售流程。所以這對我們來說是新鮮事。我們仍在努力解決一些營運問題，但我們正在取得進展。所以我認為——再次強調，需求來自其他業者。當然，我們看到一些需求來自於我們與亞馬遜的關係以及向亞馬遜基地的營銷。

And then thanks, John, for the follow-up question on the devices. This is John Swieringa. So let me try to simplify the earlier response. I mean, essentially in 2024, we'll have 100% support on Android in terms of every Android device that we distribute will be compatible with our network. On the Apple side, it's a little bit more of a mixed bag. Newer models have our bands and can support 5G SA software with iOS 17 and above.

然後感謝約翰提出有關設備的後續問題。這是 John Swieringa。因此，讓我嘗試簡化先前的回答。我的意思是，基本上到 2024 年，我們將 100% 支援 Android，即我們分發的每台 Android 設備都將與我們的網路相容。從蘋果方面來看，情況有點好壞參半。較新的型號配備我們的頻段，並可支援 iOS 17 及更高版本的 5G SA 軟體。

And so really, it's about getting to that point where we've got full Android support, partial Apple, and then obviously, there's still a profitable BYOD business where we'll bring existing devices on to our network. And in some cases, that may be on the MVNO. But that's sort of how the forecasts roll forward, and it's really been device by device, chipset by chipset approach for us to get to critical mass. I hope that helps.

所以實際上，我們要達到這樣的程度：我們擁有對 Android 的完全支持和對 Apple 的部分支持，而且顯然，我們仍然有一個有利可圖的 BYOD 業務，即把現有設備接入我們的網絡。在某些情況下，這可能發生在 MVNO 上。但這就是預測如何向前發展，我們實際上是透過一個設備一個設備、一個晶片組一個晶片組的方法來達到臨界規模。我希望這能有所幫助。

And on the Apple side, just to make sure I don't misunderstand, the 15 is fully compatible but the 12 and the 13 and the 14, which we still sell, actually 11, right, are not compatible. So obviously, we would -- that's -- those can only go on, at this point, on MVNO, absent some software downgrades or so forth and so on. But 100% of new Apples are -- but we -- it's not 100% of our business with Apple.

就蘋果方面而言，為了確保我沒有誤解，15 完全相容，但我們仍在銷售的 12、13 和 14，實際上是 11，是不相容的。因此顯然，我們 — — 那是 — — 目前，這些只能在 MVNO 上繼續進行，除非出現一些軟體降級等情況。但 100% 的新 Apple 都是——但我們——我們與 Apple 的業務並非 100% 相同。

Our next question comes from Jonathan Chaplin with New Street.

下一個問題來自《新街報》的喬納森·卓別林。

Two quick ones, if I may. First of all, so what looked like for the new capital going into Connex, I'm wondering if there's still an opportunity to combine Boost with Connex and help accelerate the sort of the flywheel that Boost with new outside capital. And then I'm wondering, Charlie, if you can give us an update on where discussions might stand with TPG and AT&T on DBS now that you've got the EchoStar transaction spread away. I'm wondering if there's a path to progress on the next big deal.

如果可以的話，我快速問兩個問題。首先，對於進入 Connex 的新資本來說，我想知道是否仍有機會將 Boost 與 Connex 結合起來，並透過新的外部資本幫助加速 Boost 的飛輪運轉。然後我想知道，查理，現在您已經完成了 EchoStar 交易，您是否可以向我們介紹一下與 TPG 和 AT&T 就 DBS 進行的談判的最新進展。我想知道下一筆大交易是否有進展的途徑。

Yes, I'll take both those. First on the TPG question, that we're focused on -- we're still getting the EchoStar-DISH transaction done. I mean, obviously, we filed a lot of stuff but we got a ton of stuff in terms of combining the companies and the management teams and making sure that we don't wait on synergies and get those and with the starting next week, that will be very helpful. So we just don't have any plans for DIRECTV based on that.

是的，我都要這兩個。首先是關於 TPG 的問題，這是我們關注的重點——我們仍在完成 EchoStar-DISH 交易。我的意思是，顯然，我們提交了很多東西，但是在合併公司和管理團隊方面，我們得到了很多東西，並確保我們不會等待協同效應並獲得這些效應，而從下週開始，這將非常有幫助。因此，我們沒有針對 DIRECTV 制定任何計劃。

Connex is not probably appropriate to comment on here. But what I would say is that I think within our capital structure, obviously, a retail wireless company that has 7.5 million subscribers and now has an online presence is probably a valuable company. We could argue whether we've managed it as well as we should. But the fact is that that's a very valuable property. So obviously, there could be ways that there may be -- from an investment point of view, there may be people that are interested in that sort of thing.

Connex 可能不適合在這裡發表評論。但我想說的是，我認為在我們的資本結構中，一家擁有 750 萬用戶且現在擁有線上業務的零售無線公司顯然可能是一家有價值的公司。我們可以爭論一下我們是否已經做到了應該做到的程度。但事實上，這是非常寶貴的財產。因此顯然，從投資角度來看，可能會有人對這類事情感興趣。

But it's also the same way with our network as well. There's only 4 companies in the United States that have nationwide network and connectivity. There's only one of those companies that actually does it in a 21st century architecture where it is a data-centric network built 100% for data, of which voice is just an application. And in the world of things like AI, where data is only valuable to you if you can utilize it, then you want IT, you want IT architecture, you want IT tools like cloud and Kubernetes and so forth and so on. And that's what we've built, and that is a one-of-a-kind thing.

但我們的網路也是同樣的情況。美國祇有 4 家公司擁有全國性的網路和連結。只有一家公司真正在 21 世紀架構中實現了這一點，即 100％為數據而構建的數據中心網絡，其中語音只是一種應用程式。在人工智慧之類的世界裡，資料只有在你能夠利用的情況下才有價值，那麼你就需要 IT，需要 IT 架構，需要 IT 工具，例如雲端和 Kubernetes 等等。這就是我們所建造的，這是獨一無二的東西。

And I think that, that, that's where ultimately the game will be won and lost for us, which is to make sure that we're not spending all our resources trying to do exactly the same thing that everybody else has done and that we actually go where we have unique capabilities that we can do for folks and customers that others can't. And so I'm excited about joining next week because that frees me up to do a little bit of that, which is where can we take this thing where we have unique advantages.

我認為，這才是我們最終成敗的關鍵，我們要確保我們不會耗費所有的資源去做和別人一模一樣的事情，我們要真正發揮我們獨特的能力，為人們和客戶做別人做不到的事情。所以我很高興下週加入，因為這讓我可以自由地做一點這方面的工作，也就是我們可以把這件事帶到哪裡，發揮我們獨特的優勢。

But perhaps maybe even our competition doesn't want to go or it's not economical for them to go and so forth. So I don't know that answer your question exactly, Jonathan, but that's the color.

但或許我們的競爭對手也不想去，或去對他們來說不經濟，等等。所以我不知道這是否能準確回答你的問題，喬納森，但這就是顏色。

Our next question comes from David Barden with Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的戴維‧巴登 (David Barden)。

We've covered a lot of ground, but Charlie, could you explain your thought process on the T-Mobile 800 megahertz option, spending $100 million upfront. Obviously, you're going to have to spend $70 million-something if you didn't buy it anyway. But your bonds are yielding 25%. You're going to get $1.9 billion-ish from the EchoStar deal when it closes, but you said it in your filings that, that's not going to be enough to do that deal.

我們已經討論了很多內容，但是查理，你能解釋一下你對 T-Mobile 800 兆赫選項的想法嗎？顯然，如果您不買它的話，您就得花費 7,000 萬美元左右。但你的債券殖利率為25%。當 EchoStar 交易完成後，你們將獲得約 19 億美元的資金，但你在文件中說過，這筆錢不足以完成這筆交易。

So how does that deal happen? And I know you love to use the word options and optionality, but I think now might be a great time to be specific and crystal clear about how you see that happening. And then in a related question, you've got $3 billion of debt coming due in '24. About 9 months ago, you maybe said that your intention was to take the convert that's coming due in March and use equity to refinance that. Is that still the plan? And how do you deal with the $2 billion coming due at the end of '24 would be helpful.

那麼這筆交易是如何達成的呢？我知道您喜歡使用“選項”和“可選性”等詞，但我認為現在可能是一個具體而清晰地說明您如何看待這種情況的好時機。然後在一個相關的問題中，你有 30 億美元的債務將在 24 年到期。大約 9 個月前，您可能說過，您的意圖是利用 3 月到期的轉換債券並使用股權進行再融資。這還是計劃嗎？如何處理 24 年底到期的 20 億美元將會很有幫助。

Yes. Well, certainly, we're focused on the converts come up in March. Equity obviously is more difficult because, obviously, the marketplace has been more negative for us over the last year on that piece, but we certainly haven't given up that equity could be a component part of that. The 800 megahertz is, I probably can't give you a complete answer. First of all, we did -- we owed $72 million regardless, and we're thankful that we're able to work out with the Department of Justice and T-Mobile to give us more time to put something together there.

是的。嗯，當然，我們關注的是三月的皈依者。股權顯然更加困難，因為顯然，過去一年市場對我們這方面的影響更加不利，但我們當然沒有放棄股權可能是其中的一個組成部分。 800兆赫是多少，我可能無法給你完整的答案。首先，無論如何，我們都欠了 7,200 萬美元，我們很感激能夠與司法部和 T-Mobile 達成協議，給我們更多時間來解決這些問題。

I mean, obviously, we think there's some unique capabilities about that. We have built it out at DISH. So we're already heavily invested probably more than $1 billion and investing that out. And so in addition to the $100 million, we've obviously invested in that. Now you aren't going to go -- you're not going to fall for a sunk cost fallacy, obviously, but economically, we think that 800 has some unique characteristics, and we think that there's use cases for it outside of everything that we're doing.

我的意思是，顯然我們認為它具有一些獨特的能力。我們已經在 DISH 上構建了它。因此，我們已經投入了巨額資金，可能超過 10 億美元，並且正在投資中。所以除了 1 億美元之外，我們顯然還對此進行了投資。現在你不會——你顯然不會陷入沉沒成本謬論，但從經濟角度來看，我們認為 800 有一些獨特的特性，而且我們認為除了我們所做的一切之外，它還有其他用例。

And the way I would say it is, to the extent that we have a good business plan for that resource that may be financeable, to the extent we don't, it certainly is not financeable. And it's possible even with a good financing -- a good business plan, given the marketplace today that it's not financeable, but that's certainly going to be a focus for me for the next 6 months and we'll see where we end up there. But we don't have -- obviously, we think that -- I think this quarter, we reduced the odds that we're going to be successful there. We're realist about it. The marketplace hasn't improved since last quarter. So we'll wait and see but it's a unique resource. It's important to what we're trying to do to compete. And therefore, we're going to give it our best shot.

我想說的是，如果我們對這種資源有一個好的商業計劃，那麼這種資源可能是可以融資的，但如果我們沒有，那麼這種資源肯定是無法融資的。即使有良好的融資，有良好的商業計劃，在當今市場的情況下，這也是有可能的，儘管這是無法融資的，但這肯定會成為我未來 6 個月關注的重點，我們將拭​​目以待最終結果。但我們沒有——顯然，我們認為——我認為本季度，我們降低了在那裡取得成功的可能性。我們對此很現實。自上個季度以來，市場狀況尚無改善。所以我們會拭目以待，但這是一種獨特的資源。這對我們為競爭所做的努力來說很重要。因此，我們將盡最大努力。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Ben Swinburne with Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指示）我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Ben Swinburne。

A couple of questions. On the Retail Wireless gross margin, service gross margins, we've been expecting to see those get better over the course of time. I know you guys signed 2 new MVNOs last year, and to this year, you were sort of double paying on back-office stuff. I think that's ended. Why are we not seeing better unit economics in the Retail Wireless business on the service side as we move through the year? And what should we expect going forward?

幾個問題。對於零售無線毛利率、服務毛利率，我們一直預期會隨著時間的推移而變得更好。我知道你們去年簽了 2 個新的 MVNO，而今年你們在後台工作上支付了雙倍的費用。我想那已經結束了。為什麼隨著時間的推移，我們沒有看到零售無線業務在服務方面的單位經濟效益有所改善？我們對未來的期望是什麼？

And then second, Charlie, I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but when you look at the value that the market is ascribing to the company, especially the market value of the equity and the debt, compare it to the sum of the parts value of what you've bought in Spectrum and et cetera, is a massive gap there. Is there anything that you were looking at that would lead you to change your strategy significantly? And especially in the context of just a higher interest rate environment, where you might look to unlock value differently for asset sales, spectrum sales, et cetera, than the path you're on.

其次，查理，我沒有告訴你任何你不知道的事情，但是當你看到市場賦予公司的價值，特別是股權和債務的市場價值，將它與你在 Spectrum 等公司購買的各部分價值總和進行比較時，你會發現存在巨大的差距。您所關注的因素中是否有任何會促使您大幅改變策略？尤其是在較高利率環境下，您可能會尋求以不同於當前路徑的方式釋放資產銷售、頻譜銷售等方面的價值。

I'll take the second question and then maybe...

我將回答第二個問題，然後也許...

Yes, I'll take the first. This is Mike, Ben. I'll take the first part of this. We've been focused on obtaining better customers. And so we've been putting better devices in the hands of our customers. Those that will transfer over to the M&O as we build out. We've also been focused on aligning our dealer commissions with the long-term profitable needs of the company. So the dealer commissions had some impact on margins for the quarter. That will change over time. I don't know, Paul, if you want to add anything to that?

是的，我選擇第一個。這是麥克，本。我將討論第一部分。我們一直致力於獲得更好的客戶。因此，我們一直在向客戶提供更好的設備。隨著我們的建設，這些將會轉移到 M&O。我們也致力於將經銷商佣金與公司的長期獲利需求結合。因此經銷商佣金對本季的利潤率有一定影響。隨著時間的推移，這種情況將會改變。保羅，我不知道您是否想補充一些內容？

Yes, I would just add to that. You'll see a material decrease in the cost of services related to the commissions in Q4. Q3 had more cost run as we transition to the new commission structure. In Q4, we'll be 100% on that new commission structure.

是的，我只是想補充一點。您將看到第四季度與佣金相關的服務成本大幅下降。由於我們過渡到新的佣金結構，第三季的成本增加了。在第四季度，我們將 100％ 採用新的佣金結構。

I think the broader question is where do you expect margins to go?

我認為更廣泛的問題是您預計利潤率會達到多少？

They will improve.

他們會進步的。

And then on the...

然後在...

Look, on strategy, my philosophy is I look at it every day, right? The world events, the competition does something, opportunity that you didn't know existed happens. So you're looking at your strategy every day, and you're looking at that as related to what your strategy is and say, is there anything we should change? And so we're not -- we believe we're on the right strategy.

看，關於策略，我的理念是我每天都會關注它，對嗎？世界上發生的大事、競爭，一些你不知道的機會發生了。所以你每天都在審視你的策略，你正在審視與你的策略相關的內容，並說，我們應該改變什麼嗎？因此我們相信我們的策略是正確的。

Maybe we haven't articulated it as well as many companies do, in part because I think we play our cards a little bit closer to our vest maybe. But we think we're on the right strategy but we evaluate it, (inaudible) is very good at strategy himself and he may have some different ideas that he'll challenge us on. But the only thing I can say is, to your point, with the assets that we have and the position that we're in, other than the financial side of the markets, right, which is obviously a great challenge for us, we're pretty well positioned for the 21st century.

也許我們沒有像許多公司那樣清楚地表達這一點，部分原因是我認為我們可能對自己的牌有點保密。但我們認為我們的策略是正確的，但我們對其進行了評估，（聽不清楚）他自己非常擅長策略，他可能有一些不同的想法可以挑戰我們。但我唯一能說的是，正如你所說，憑藉我們擁有的資產和所處的地位，除了市場的金融方面（這對我們來說顯然是一個巨大的挑戰）之外，我們已經為 21 世紀做好了充分的準備。

I mean, everything has got to be connected. Wireless is the only way you can do it on a mass basis, or certainly wired can do a lot but not everywhere. And we have a unique -- we have a very modern system with a unique set of resources. So good management. We'll be able to take that and operate that. And that's certainly what we're focused on, and we've maybe not been as good as we'd like to be but we think we've got the right team in place to do it.

我的意思是，一切都必須連結起來。無線是能夠大規模實現這一目標的唯一方式，或者有線當然可以做很多事情但不是在所有地方。我們擁有獨特的—我們擁有一套非常現代化的系統和一套獨特的資源。管理真好。我們將能夠接受它並操作它。這當然是我們所關注的重點，也許我們還沒有達到我們所希望的那麼好，但我們認為我們已經擁有合適的團隊來完成這項工作。

Okay. And if I could just ask a follow-up on a different topic, Charlie. The Pay-TV business is obviously important for you guys from a cash flow point of view, and you've been managing it that way for a long time. The Disney-Charter dispute this year or this quarter or this past quarter seemed to highlight some pretty big changes in that business. And I'm wondering if that has informed or highlighted or brought your attention to sort of opportunities to sort of either drop channels or run that business in a way that's maybe more aggressive.

好的。查理，我是否可以繼續提問另一個話題。從現金流的角度來看，付費電視業務對你們來說顯然很重要，而且你們也一直以這種方式管理它。今年、本季或上個季度的迪士尼與特許權糾紛似乎凸顯了該業務的一些相當大的變化。我想知道這是否讓您了解、強調或註意到了放棄管道或以更積極的方式經營業務的機會。

You don't have a broadband business or a different place than Charter, but you've also been arguably early on sort of paring off networks that don't work anymore economically. I'm wondering if you took anything from that situation as you guys look ahead on Pay-TV.

您沒有寬頻業務，也沒有與 Charter 不同的地點，但您也可以說是很早就開始削減那些在經濟上不再起作用的網路。我想知道，當你們展望付費電視時，你們從這種情況中得到了什麼啟示。

So this is Gary. Look, overall, we're always looking at our relationships to see where we can partner strategically and where we can continue to with partners and help to improve the experience that's available to customers. And yes, we're also looking at where are our costs best spent and how we allocate capital efficiently. And so that's an ongoing thing we're looking at. It is important that we brought a good service to our subscribers to drive cash in the business and to make sure that they love us and they want to stay with us.

這就是加里。總的來說，我們一直在審視我們的關係，以了解我們可以在哪些方面建立策略合作夥伴關係，以及我們可以在哪些方面繼續與合作夥伴合作，並幫助改善客戶體驗。是的，我們也在研究如何最好地利用成本以及如何有效分配資本。這是我們正在關注的事情。重要的是，我們要為訂閱用戶提供良好的服務，以推動業務發展，並確保他們喜歡我們並且願意繼續與我們合作。

But yes, we're always looking at opportunities to be more efficient. And we were generally aligned with, I think, the positioning that Charter took in terms of understanding that certain parts of the model is broken. And this company has done -- taken those steps in the past, especially if you look at our history of RSNs. So we'll continue to look at opportunistic ways to optimize our customer experience and our allocation of capital.

但確實，我們一直在尋找提高效率的機會。我認為，我們總體上同意 Charter 的立場，認為模型的某些部分有缺陷。這家公司過去已經採取了這些措施，特別是如果你看看我們的 RSN 歷史的話。因此，我們將繼續尋找機會來優化我們的客戶體驗和資本配置。

We will now take our final question from the analyst community. (Operator Instructions) We will begin the media portion of this call following the answer to final analyst question. Our final analyst question comes from Bryan Kraft with Deutsche Bank.

我們現在來回答分析師群體提出的最後一個問題。 （操作員指示）在回答分析師的最後一個問題後，我們將開始本次電話會議的媒體部分。我們的最後一個分析師問題來自德意志銀行的 Bryan Kraft。

Can you talk about the expense outlook for the 5G business? I think there was a pretty sizable step-up in cost of sales this quarter. And I'm just trying to understand if we should think about that as a good run rate going forward or if there was anything that was maybe temporarily elevating it or if it could even go the other way, it might further step up in 4Q.

能談談5G業務的費用前景嗎？我認為本季銷售成本有相當大的成長。我只是想知道我們是否應該將其視為未來良好的運行率，或者是否有任何因素可能暫時提升它，或者它甚至可能朝另一個方向發展，它可能會在第四季度進一步提升。

And also, should we expect to see more revenue coming in on the 5G network side? Or will you really be focusing the growth investments on retail postpaid? And then just lastly also on expenses. In Pay-TV, they didn't really come down this quarter. And obviously, they need to keep pace with the revenue declines as much as possible. Are you planning to manage these costs down more aggressively, let's say, over the next couple of quarters?

此外，我們是否應該期待 5G 網路方面帶來更多的收入？或者您真的會將成長投資重點放在零售後付費上？最後還要談談費用。在付費電視方面，本季其營收並沒有下降。顯然，他們需要盡可能跟上收入下降的腳步。您是否計劃在接下來的幾個季度內更積極地降低這些成本？

This is Paul here. I'll take the 5G expense question. That grew due to the fact that we placed more towers in service, so you have the OpEx sets related to that. As we continue to place more towers in service in Q4 as well as the first part of next year, you'll see that number grow. We are optimistic that we'll be able to, at some point in the near future, start to monetize that network on top of subscribers and get revenue generation from a commercial perspective.

我是保羅。我來回答一下5G費用問題。這是因為我們在服務中安裝了更多的塔，所以您有與此相關的 OpEx 集。隨著我們在第四季以及明年上半年繼續投入使用更多的塔，你會看到這個數字的成長。我們樂觀地認為，在不久的將來，我們將能夠開始透過用戶將該網路貨幣化，並從商業角度獲得收入。

And this is Gary. On the video side, look, in terms of our sales and support costs, it's a mature business and we're always looking to manage our costs to match our subscriber and sales trends. And so we'll regularly adjust how we allocate our resources to align with what we see in the market, and that's kind of what we'd like to say about that.

這是加里。在影片方面，就我們的銷售和支援成本而言，這是一個成熟的業務，我們始終致力於管理我們的成本以匹配我們的用戶和銷售趨勢。因此，我們會定期調整我們的資源分配方式，以適應我們在市場中看到的情況，這就是我們想說的。

Yes. And just by point structurally, Gary had Sling but now you had Sling. Now he has all of Pay-TV. So structurally, you -- what you have pointed out is a correct point of view, which is we haven't managed costs down as well as -- and part of it was structured in the company. Now Gary has got both sides of the fence there and it's a little bit easier to work to rightsize and the right people on the right projects without having to duplicate it, which is what we had to do.

是的。僅從結構上來說，Gary 有 Sling，但現在你也有 Sling。現在他擁有了全部付費電視。所以從結構上講，你所指出的觀點是正確的，那就是我們還沒有很好地降低成本，其中一部分原因是公司結構的問題。現在，加里 (Gary) 已經掌握了雙方的情況，可以更輕鬆地根據規模安排合適的人員，讓合適的項目順利進行，而不必重複工作，而這正是我們必須要做的。

And the other part of it is as we combine with EchoStar, there's some other opportunities for us within the organization as well, where we've got talented people on both sides and some synergy on the cost side.

另一部分原因是，當我們與 EchoStar 合併時，組織內部也為我們帶來了一些其他機會，我們雙方都有人才，並且在成本方面具有一些協同效應。

If I could ask just 1 follow-up. Can you talk about just what the pipeline looks like at this point on the 5G enterprise side in terms of private network RFPs and whether there's a lot of activity there?

我是否可以只問 1 個後續問題？您能否談談目前 5G 企業方面的私有網路 RFP 的進展以及是否有很多活動？

I'd say it this way. There's a lot of activity and I think there's 2 challenges for us. One is the actual -- the structure and personnel. We really haven't found the replacement to Stephen by who's now on our Board but was obviously on the enterprise side. So we got a little bit younger team that's working it.

我會這麼說。活動很多，我認為我們面臨兩個挑戰。一是實際情況—結構和人員。我們確實還沒有找到史蒂芬的替代者，他現在是我們的董事會成員，但顯然是在企業方面。因此我們找了一個稍微年輕一點的團隊來負責這項工作。

The second thing is the integration with EchoStar, which as a more mature enterprise organization and has already enterprise customers at a much, much higher level than we do. I think I saw something last week where they just didn't -- as an example, with an airline, they just did a long-term deal with an airline. Why is that interesting? Well, airline -- that's a satellite deal for broadband with airlines. But airlines are companies that -- whether it's with us or somebody else will have private networks because they move cargo, they move people. They need tremendous connectivity at airports and their hangers. They need connectivity when planes are circling and when they're on the ground.

第二件事是與 EchoStar 的整合，EchoStar 是一家更成熟的企業組織，並且已經擁有比我們高得多的企業客戶。我認為我上週看到了一些他們沒有做的事情——例如，與一家航空公司，他們只是與一家航空公司簽訂了長期協議。為什麼這很有趣？嗯，航空公司——這是與航空公司達成的寬頻衛星交易。但航空公司是這樣的——無論是我們的公司還是其他公司的公司，都會擁有私人網絡，因為他們運送貨物，運送旅客。他們需要機場及其機庫的強大連通性。當飛機盤旋時和在地面時，它們都需要連接。

And they need -- and so they're all going to have private networks. Well, that's an interesting play because EchoStar is already dealing with some major airlines as an example. So I think you're going to see real progress there. I don't think you'll see progress next quarter per se. I think you'll see it in 2024, and you'll see it because of the integration of our teams, and that's probably one where the -- where -- that you're going to see the -- that kind of jumpstarts that business for us.

他們需要——所以他們都將擁有私人網路。嗯，這是一個有趣的舉措，因為 EchoStar 已經與一些主要航空公司打交道。所以我認為你會看到那裡真正的進步。我認為下個季度不會看到進展。我認為你會在 2024 年看到它，你會看到它因為我們團隊的整合，那可能就是你將看到的那種為我們的業務帶來快速啟動的地方。

And I know EchoStar has a pretty big backlog as an example of enterprise customer business already. And this is just -- I think my discussions with the EchoStar folks on the enterprise side is they're excited because they get something else to sell. And in fact, for the most part, every -- some of the enterprise customers are international, but all the domestic customers are certainly people that I'm sure we are in discussion or will have discussions.

我知道 EchoStar 作為企業客戶業務的典範，已經擁有相當多的積壓訂單。這只是——我認為我與企業方面的 EchoStar 人員的討論是他們很興奮，因為他們有了其他東西可以賣。事實上，大多數情況下，每一個——有些企業客戶都是國際性的，但我相信所有國內客戶肯定都是我們正在討論或將要討論的客戶。

We will now take questions from members of the media. (Operator Instructions) Our first media question comes from Todd Shields with Bloomberg News.

我們現在將回答媒體記者的提問。 (操作員指示)我們的第一個媒體問題來自彭博新聞社的托德·希爾茲。

Charlie, you said we just don't have any plans for DIRECTV. Is that forever or just based on right now while you're busy absorbing EchoStar?

查理，你說過我們對 DIRECTV 沒有任何計劃。這是永遠的嗎，還是僅僅基於現在，而您正忙於吸收 EchoStar？

Well, that's certainly for now. I don't know how to answer that, but our focus is elsewhere.

嗯，目前確實如此。我不知道如何回答這個問題，但我們的重點在別處。

Our next question comes from John Celentano with Inside Towers.

我們的下一個問題來自 Inside Towers 的 John Celentano。

Infrastructure question. Last figure I heard or saw about the number of cell sites deployed is around 16,000. I know you've progressed since then. But to reach the 75% of PEAs nationwide, what do you think you're going to need in terms of cell sites?

基礎設施問題。我聽到或看到的最新數字是，已部署的基地台數量約為 16,000 個。我知道從那時起你已經進步了。但是，為了涵蓋全國 75% 的 PEA，您認為需要什麼樣的基地台呢？

So this is John, thanks for the question. So the top level, we're focused on 73% VoNR footprint, which is most major cities, most NFL markets. We'll have about 20,000 sites on air by the end of this year for macro coverage. And we're in the process now of doing all the RF designs and plans for the 2025 build-out. It's a slightly different kind of build in terms of morality and other factors, but we're probably not in a position to give any more guidance on that right now. But we're hard to work to put those plans together.

我是約翰，謝謝你的提問。因此，在最高層次上，我們將重點放在 73% 的 VoNR 覆蓋範圍，即大多數主要城市、大多數 NFL 市場。到今年年底，我們將有大約 20,000 個站點接入宏觀覆蓋。目前，我們正在進行 2025 年建造的所有射頻設計和規劃。從道德和其他因素的角度來看，這是一種略有不同的構建，但我們現在可能無法就此提供更多指導。但我們很努力地制定這些計劃。

Our next question comes from Jimmy Schaeffler with The Carmel Group.

我們的下一個問題來自卡梅爾集團的吉米·謝弗勒。

You've highlighted the 21st century quality of your new network architecture. Do you have any data or material analysis that begins to prove that out? In other words, how much better than current cell service will DISH wireless be?

您強調了新網路架構的 21 世紀品質。您有任何數據或材料分析可以證明這一點嗎？換句話說，DISH 無線服務比目前的蜂窩服務好多少？

Yes. This is Charlie, Jimmy. I'd say it this way. From a consumer point of view, the incumbents do a great job. Their networks work extremely well and I don't expect that we're going to see -- while VoNR voice is on the margin a little better, it's not something that would make you rush out, say I have to have VoNR voice over 4G voice or whatever. So I don't think there's going to be a huge difference in the short term.

是的。這是查理，吉米。我會這麼說。從消費者的角度來看，現任者做得很好。他們的網路運作得非常好，我不指望我們會看到——雖然 VoNR 語音稍微好一點，但它並不會讓你急於求成，比如說我必須使用 VoNR 語音而不是 4G 語音等等。所以我認為短期內不會有巨大的差異。

I think it's a little bit -- from the consumer point of view, it's a little bit how the architecture of everything goes together, including OSS, BSS and how we might be able to change the customer experience long term. It's no different and you lived through this, Jimmy. When we launched digital DBS along with DIRECTV, the ESPN was ESPN. It wasn't really that much different when it started. But we made that -- when it came to digitizing an interactive guide and making commercials less obtrusive and other things, lockout and things like that, we actually made the experience better. We'll have to do the same thing here.

我認為這有點——從消費者的角度來看，這有點是關於一切架構如何結合在一起，包括 OSS、BSS 以及我們如何能夠長期改變客戶體驗。這沒什麼不同，你經歷過這些，吉米。當我們與 DIRECTV 一起推出數位 DBS 時，ESPN 就是 ESPN。剛開始時其實並沒有太大的不同。但是我們做到了——當涉及到數位化互動式指南和使商業廣告不那麼突兀以及其他事情（鎖定等）時，我們實際上改善了體驗。我們必須在這裡做同樣的事情。

But I think in the short term, there's not a big difference to differentiate our network for the consumer. That's much different when it comes to the enterprise business, where the enterprise business is about controlling your data, making sure you get your data so you can improve your product, make it safer, make it cheaper, make it more innovative, gain market share of the competition, make sure that you're taking your -- reducing climate change and sensors and all kind of things that you might need where you have control of your data. And that's very difficult to do with incumbent networks.

但我認為，短期內，我們的網路對消費者來說不會有太大的差異。對於企業業務來說，情況就大不相同了，企業業務是關於控制你的數據，確保你能夠獲得你的數據，這樣你就可以改進你的產品，使它更安全、更便宜、更具創新性，獲得競爭的市場份額，確保你正在減少氣候變遷和感測器以及你可能需要的所有你能控制數據的東西。這對於現有網路來說非常困難。

And so that's why I'm bullish on that side of our business because I think we have strategic advantages. And that's why I'm excited about bringing the EchoStar team or working with the EchoStar team who's already down that path with satellite and now we're just going to -- now we're going to add one more tool to that. So I'm not saying we won't have differentiation for the consumers. I think we will in a number of ways. But realistically, you're not going to see too much difference.

這就是我看好我們這方面的業務的原因，因為我認為我們具有戰略優勢。這就是為什麼我很高興加入 EchoStar 團隊或與 EchoStar 團隊合作，他們已經在衛星領域取得了進展，現在我們要——現在我們要為其添加另一個工具。所以我並不是說我們不會為消費者提供差異化產品。我想我們會透過多種方式來實現。但實際上，你不會看到太大的差別。

Now on the network side, realize our OpEx and CapEx and actual cost of constructed network is much less. So we're getting a lot more bang for our money, which ultimately can lead to lower cost for our consumers.

現在在網路方面，實現我們的OpEx和CapEx以及實際建設網路的成本要少得多。因此，我們獲得的效益更高，最終可以降低消費者的成本。

And Charlie, one more quick question. Do you see anything on the fixed wireless access side that entices you or interests you right now?

查理，還有一個簡單的問題。您是否發現固定無線存取方面有任何吸引您或讓您感興趣的東西？

Yes, there's a bunch of stuff that I think is interesting. The -- obviously, we were -- we've been disappointed that the FCC hasn't ruled on our 12-gig fixed wireless. They ruled for 12-gig for satellite in a matter of months and we've been at it for 5 years on the terrestrial side. The only interference from it is with ourself, right, is to DBS. And so we've said we're not obviously going to interfere it ourselves. So we're hopeful that, that's a place that fixed wireless can go.

是的，我認為有很多東西很有趣。顯然，我們對聯邦通訊委員會尚未對我們的 12 千兆固定無線做出裁決感到失望。他們在幾個月內就裁決了衛星 12GbE 的可行性，而在地面方面我們已經努力了 5 年。它對我們唯一的干擾就是對 DBS 的干擾。因此我們表示，我們顯然不會干涉此事。因此，我們希望固定無線可以進入這個領域。

The other part of it that I don't -- but the reason I'm a little cautious is the government is going to spend somewhere between $40 billion and $100 billion on broadband. And they set rules and it's even state by state now. And the economics of fixed wireless now are being decided by government agencies. And so if everything was fair and a level playing field and the best technology won, I would be unbelievably bullish on fixed wireless.

另一部分我不知道——但我有點謹慎的原因是政府將在寬頻上花費 400 億至 1000 億美元。他們制定了規則，現在甚至各州都制定了規則。目前，固定無線的經濟性由政府機構決定。因此，如果一切都是公平的，並且競爭環境公平，並且最好的技術能夠獲勝，那麼我會對固定無線充滿信心。

The problem is if somebody is getting a subsidy, let's say, for fiber to run at 10 miles out to a farmhouse for $100,000 and the government is going to pay for that, you're not going to compete with that with your -- even though it's only $1,000 on fixed wireless, you're not going to compete with that $100,000 bill because you have to pay the $1,000 as a private company and the government pays a $100,000 subsidy. So until we see that sorted out on government policy, it's going to be a little bit tricky on the fixed wireless side. And so that gives...

問題是，如果有人獲得補貼，比如說，為一個農舍鋪設 10 英里長的光纖，補貼金額為 10 萬美元，而政府將支付這筆費用，那麼您將無法與這項補貼競爭——儘管固定無線網絡費用只有 1,000 美元，但您無法與這 10 萬美元的費用競爭，因為作為一家私營公司，您必須支付 10 萬美元的政府補貼。因此，在政府政策解決這個問題之前，固定無線方面的問題將會有點棘手。這樣就得到了...

Charlie, do you see any companies out there that are massively improving the capabilities of fixed wireless so that it would get around some of that eventually?

查理，您是否看到任何公司正在大力改進固定無線功能，以便最終解決其中的一些問題？

Again, all I can say is the government is going to pick winners and losers in that and they're going to pick winners and losers in technology. And some companies are going to do a great job with some companies. As we know from past government subsidies, we know that some companies will do a great job, and that money will be well spent and electricity was one of those things long term that happened. The interstate highway system was one of those things.

我再說一遍，我只能說政府會在這其中挑選出贏家和輸家，而且他們會在技術方面挑選出贏家和輸家。有些公司會和其他公司合作，做得很好。從過去的政府補助我們可以知道，有些公司做得很好，這些錢也花得值得，而電力就是長期發生的事情之一。州際公路系統就是其中之一。

But we've also seen a lot of times that money is wasted, where perhaps fixed broadband goes where there already is broadband, and maybe we haven't added new customers to that. And so there'll be some money that will be wasted there, and we'll just have to kind of see where that goes. But it's hard for our Board to look at a return on investment in fixed wireless when we don't know if we're competing against the government subsidy or if we're competing against the marketplace. And where we compete against the marketplace, we're very bullish.

但我們也看到很多時候資金被浪費，固定寬頻可能被用在已經有寬頻的地方，而我們可能沒有增加新的客戶。所以有些錢會被浪費掉，我們只要看看這些錢會花到哪裡就行了。但當我們不知道我們是正在與政府補貼競爭還是正在與市場競爭時，我們的董事會很難看到固定無線投資的回報。在市場競爭中，我們非常樂觀。

Operator, I understand that was the last question from the media, so thank you, everyone, for joining, and we'll talk to you again next quarter.

接線員，我知道這是媒體的最後一個問題，所以感謝大家的參與，我們將在下個季度再次與您交談。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。