DISH Network Corp (DISH) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the DISH Network Corporation Q4 and Year-End 2022 Earnings Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded.

美好的一天，歡迎來到 DISH Network Corporation 第 4 季度和 2022 年年終收益電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製中。

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Tim Messner. Please go ahead, sir.

在這個時候，我想把會議轉交給蒂姆·梅斯納爾先生。請繼續，先生。

All right. Thanks, Shelley. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. We are joined on the call today by Charlie Ergen, our Chairman; Erik Carlson, our CEO; Paul Orban, our CFO. And then on the wireless side, we've got Tom Cullen, EVP of Corporate Development; John Swieringa, President and CEO of Wireless; and Dave Mayo, our EVP of Network Development.

好的。謝謝，雪萊。大家，早安。感謝您加入我們。今天，我們的主席查理·埃爾根 (Charlie Ergen) 也加入了我們的電話會議；我們的首席執行官 Erik Carlson；我們的首席財務官 Paul Orban。然後在無線方面，我們有企業發展執行副總裁 Tom Cullen； Wireless 總裁兼首席執行官 John Swieringa；和我們的網絡開發執行副總裁 Dave Mayo。

Before we start, I need to remind you of our safe harbors. During the call, we might make forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from historical results or from our forecast. We assume no responsibility for updating the forward-looking statements. For more information on factors that might affect future results, please refer to our SEC filings.

在我們開始之前，我需要提醒您我們的安全港。在電話會議期間，我們可能會做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，這些因素可能導致我們的實際結果與歷史結果或我們的預測存在重大差異。我們不承擔更新前瞻性陳述的責任。有關可能影響未來結果的因素的更多信息，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

We're going to generally go straight to questions. But before we do that, I'm going to turn it over to Erik for a brief update.

我們通常會直接提出問題。但在我們這樣做之前，我將把它交給埃里克進行簡短的更新。

Thanks, Tim. Before we open it up for questions, just a quick update. This morning, we experienced an internal outage that's continuing to affect our internal servers and IT telephony. Our DISH and Sling services and our wireless and data networks continue to operate normally, are up and running. However, some of our internal communications, customer care functions, Internet sites were affected and are currently down. We're analyzing the root causes and any consequences of the outage while we work to restore the affected systems as quickly as possible.

謝謝，蒂姆。在我們公開提問之前，先快速更新一下。今天早上，我們經歷了一次內部中斷，繼續影響我們的內部服務器和 IT 電話。我們的 DISH 和 Sling 服務以及我們的無線和數據網絡繼續正常運行。然而，我們的一些內部通訊、客戶服務功能、網站受到影響，目前已關閉。我們正在分析中斷的根本原因和任何後果，同時努力盡快恢復受影響的系統。

With that, I'll open it up for questions.

有了這個，我會打開它來提問。

(Operator Instructions) And Ric Prentiss.

（操作員說明）和 Ric Prentiss。

It's Ric Prentiss, Raymond James. Hope you're doing okay despite the internal outages. Two questions, if I could. First is a very detailed question. It looked to us like wireless retail equipment revenue seem low for the implied fourth quarter given the year-to-date. Was there anything unusual there or any kind of catch-up?

我是 Ric Prentiss，Raymond James。希望你在內部中斷的情況下一切都好。兩個問題，如果可以的話。首先是一個非常詳細的問題。在我們看來，鑑於今年迄今，第四季度的無線零售設備收入似乎很低。那裡有什麼不尋常的地方或任何形式的追趕嗎？

The second question is more strategic. With Stephen leaving the operations and joining the Board, T-Mobile/AWS had an announcement this week talking about private networks and working together with 5G, how should we think about the enterprise wholesale side? What's needed to get that business going? And when could it become meaningful?

第二個問題更具戰略性。隨著 Stephen 離開運營並加入董事會，T-Mobile/AWS 本週發布了一份公告，討論專用網絡並與 5G 合作，我們應該如何看待企業批發方面？開展這項業務需要什麼？什麼時候才能變得有意義？

Yes. This is Paul. I'll take the first question. As it relates to retail wireless COGS revenue, our hardware revenue, it was downside, and that's due to units shipped. You may notice still that equipment COGS is up higher. In the fourth quarter, we shipped a lot -- 100% of 5G units that has our chipset in it. That's going to be a good investment for us because in the future, we'll be able to upgrade customers to our network and obviously get M&O economics at that point in time.

是的。這是保羅。我先回答第一個問題。由於它涉及零售無線 COGS 收入，我們的硬件收入，這是不利的，這是由於出貨量。您可能仍然注意到設備 COGS 更高。在第四季度，我們出貨量很大——100% 的 5G 設備都裝有我們的芯片組。這對我們來說將是一項很好的投資，因為在未來，我們將能夠將客戶升級到我們的網絡，並且顯然會在那個時間點獲得 M&O 經濟效益。

And this is Charlie on the second part of the question. The -- first, the T-Mobile/AWS announcement is what we would expect. I think that we're leaders in where the wireless network is going to go. I'd expect that everybody is going to have cloud-based networks and also -- and whether you have a private cloud or a public cloud, maybe everybody would do a little bit differently. But that's going to be a necessity to get into the enterprise businesses, and there's going to be a lot of business for everybody in the enterprise businesses. We're better positioned there. We would expect as a gross utilization with 4 players with national networks, 25% of the enterprise business wouldn't be unreasonable for us to get as opposed to the retail business where we're starting decades behind people and maybe getting to low single low double digits would be a reasonable expectation for us. We're just not going to be a dominant player in the retail wireless business. But our network is designed for enterprise. It's designed for wholesale. And so we think we'll get -- and we're leaders there from an architecture point of view today.

這是問題第二部分的查理。 - 首先，T-Mobile/AWS 公告是我們所期望的。我認為我們是無線網絡發展方向的領導者。我希望每個人都將擁有基於雲的網絡，而且——無論您擁有私有云還是公共雲，也許每個人都會做一些不同的事情。但這將是進入企業業務的必要條件，而且企業業務中的每個人都會有很多業務。我們在那裡的位置更好。我們預計，作為擁有全國網絡的 4 個參與者的總利用率，25% 的企業業務對我們來說並不是不合理的，而不是零售業務，在零售業務中，我們開始落後於人們數十年，並且可能會變得低單低兩位數對我們來說是一個合理的期望。我們只是不會成為零售無線業務的主導者。但我們的網絡是為企業設計的。它專為批發而設計。所以我們認為我們會得到——從今天的架構角度來看，我們是那裡的領導者。

So that will -- and then to the further part of your question, it is a slow sales cycle, obviously, because you have to go through and architect. Everybody's got a little bit different flavor of what they want and so forth. So we're looking at verticals where we already have relationships whether that be in rural America, think smart -- think agriculture, think -- whether it be in the leisure and entertainment business, we're already doing video for some of the customers. So that's -- and then there's all kinds of verticals that our partners are -- whether it be a Cisco or an Amazon or a Dell that already have sales forces that are using those products. So I think you're going to see a lot of business for everybody.

所以這將 - 然後是你問題的進一步部分，這是一個緩慢的銷售週期，顯然，因為你必須經過和架構師。每個人對他們想要的東西都有一點不同的口味等等。所以我們正在尋找我們已經建立關係的垂直領域，無論是在美國農村，想想聰明——想想農業，想想——無論是在休閒和娛樂行業，我們已經在為一些客戶製作視頻.這就是——然後我們的合作夥伴是各種垂直領域——無論是思科、亞馬遜還是戴爾，它們已經擁有使用這些產品的銷售隊伍。所以我認為你會看到每個人都有很多生意。

And when companies start putting new private networks, it will force their competitors to do it because they just won't be competitive without their own private networks. So that's the big picture answer. And so I think we've said we would expect that you'll start seeing real revenue from that next year from us, and you'll start seeing -- you'll see some movement this year. Obviously, you'll see some announcements from people in the industry. It'd be great -- I'm a fan -- if T-Mobile goes out and get customers, I'm a fan of that because whatever they can do, we can do better.

當公司開始建立新的專用網絡時，這將迫使他們的競爭對手這樣做，因為如果沒有自己的專用網絡，他們就沒有競爭力。這就是大局的答案。因此，我認為我們已經說過，我們希望明年你會開始從我們那裡看到真正的收入，你會開始看到——今年你會看到一些變化。顯然，您會看到業內人士發布的一些公告。那會很棒——我是粉絲——如果 T-Mobile 出去吸引客戶，我很喜歡，因為無論他們能做什麼，我們都可以做得更好。

And do you think VoNR or Voice over New Radio, is that something the enterprise wholesale people want to see working? Or is it more nationwide coverage? But what's kind of one of the hurdles to that long sales cycle that they're really wanting to see that box checked? Anything in particular?

您認為 VoNR 或 Voice over New Radio 是企業批發人員希望看到的東西嗎？還是覆蓋全國？但是，他們真正希望看到該框被選中的漫長銷售週期的障礙之一是什麼？有什麼特別的嗎？

I think you're cracking up. You broke up a little bit. I think you asked whether -- what's the hurdle to the sales cycle? It really is showing where a company can get productivity increases. Obviously, it's an investment, so they got -- they can make a return on that investment. Where do they get productivity? How do they make their products cheaper, faster, safer? How do they have increased their security as a result of it? And you got to go through a lot of -- these are big companies that are looking at you, going through a lot of layers from the CIOs to the CFOs to the executive branches to go through and make that investment.

我覺得你快崩潰了。你分手了一點。我想你問過——銷售週期的障礙是什麼？它確實顯示了公司可以在哪些方面提高生產力。顯然，這是一項投資，所以他們得到了——他們可以從這項投資中獲得回報。他們從哪裡獲得生產力？他們如何使他們的產品更便宜、更快、更安全？他們如何因此提高安全性？你必須經歷很多——這些大公司正在關注你，經歷了從首席信息官到首席財務官再到行政部門的許多層級，以進行投資。

Phil.

菲爾。

Phil Cusick of JPMorgan. Two if I can. One, can you talk about the comment in your disclosure today? You said you've started sites that will cover 60% of the population. Are you able to start and complete the incremental 10% by June? Or are we getting ready for you to miss this year's 70% deadline and extend to '25? And what fines would be if it comes to that?

摩根大通的 Phil Cusick。如果可以的話，兩個。第一，你能談談你今天披露的評論嗎？您說您已經建立了將覆蓋 60% 人口的網站。您能否在 6 月之前開始並完成 10% 的增量？或者我們準備好讓您錯過今年 70% 的最後期限並延長到 25 年嗎？如果涉及到這種情況，會被罰款多少？

I'll let Dave Mayo answer that.

我會讓 Dave Mayo 回答這個問題。

Phil, it's Dave. So we're optimistic about 70%. We talked about 15,000 sites started in -- at the end of the year, yielding greater than 60% ops. We've now started over 17,000 sites. We're on pace at that 1,000 sites a month number that we've been talking about for a couple of quarters. It typically takes 3, maybe 4 months from the time you start the site until you finish the construction, get power and telco. Power and telcos are probably the 2 risks that we have, but we're optimistic that we'll see the 70%.

菲爾，是戴夫。所以我們對 70% 持樂觀態度。我們談到了 15,000 個站點開始於 - 在年底，產生了超過 60% 的操作。我們現在已經啟動了 17,000 多個站點。我們正朝著我們已經討論了兩個季度的每月 1,000 個站點的速度前進。從您啟動站點到完成施工、獲得電力和電信通常需要 3 到 4 個月的時間。電力和電信公司可能是我們面臨的兩個風險，但我們樂觀地認為我們會看到 70%。

So the bottom line is we're on track. Bottom line -- let me be clear. We're track to beat to 70%. We don't expect to be paying fines.

所以底線是我們走上正軌。底線——讓我說清楚。我們有望達到 70%。我們不希望支付罰款。

And -- okay. I just wanted to give you the opportunity to let everybody know that, that does automatically go out to '25 if it comes to it.

而且——好吧。我只是想讓你有機會讓每個人都知道，如果涉及到它，它會自動到 25 年。

I see why the disclosure is confusing, but we're -- bottom line is we're on track for 70%. We're not spiking the football, but we're on track, and we don't expect fines.

我明白為什麼披露令人困惑，但我們 - 底線是我們正處於 70% 的軌道上。我們沒有扣球，但我們在正軌上，我們不希望罰款。

And can I ask as well, what does it take to do a wider launch of Boost Infinite at this point?

我還可以問一下，此時要更廣泛地推出 Boost Infinite 需要做些什麼嗎？

I'll answer briefly, maybe turn that over to John. But we're going -- we have 2 paths. One is the FCC requirements for data, right? So to build that in a network, that's where we're covering going to cover 70% of the POPs and data. The problem that we've run into is that we are -- for commercial launch of it, we need voice, and we're doing 5G voice or VoNR. We made the strategic call not to do 2G, 3G, 4G voice and have all that legacy and carry that around for the rest of our life, right?

我會簡短地回答，也許把它交給 John。但是我們要去——我們有兩條路。一個是 FCC 對數據的要求，對嗎？因此，要在網絡中構建它，我們將覆蓋 70% 的持久性有機污染物和數據。我們遇到的問題是——為了商業發布，我們需要語音，我們正在做 5G 語音或 VoNR。我們做出戰略呼籲，不使用 2G、3G、4G 語音，並擁有所有這些遺產，並在我們的餘生中隨身攜帶，對嗎？

So we're thinking long term about that and saying, "Look, let's have the best voice in the industry. Let's go with 5G voice." That was -- there are many companies are working on that. Obviously, T-Mobile has launched a couple of markets. The Chinese are working on that. But we're now the largest -- as far as we know, the largest company that has real time VoNR in the United -- the voice of 5G in the United States. And John will give you a little bit more detail on that. That -- we've got -- so now we've got it up and working. That was probably one of our biggest technical challenges, and we're very thankful to the Mavenirs of the world and our vendors that kind of helped us get there. We wouldn't have got there without them. And so -- now we -- we're starting to roll that out as fast as we can, but we've kind of got over those hurdles. But that's what we need for commercial launch.

所以我們從長遠考慮，說，“看，讓我們擁有業內最好的聲音。讓我們使用 5G 聲音。”那是 - 有許多公司正在為此努力。顯然，T-Mobile 已經推出了幾個市場。中國人正在為此努力。但我們現在是最大的——據我們所知，最大的在美國擁有實時 VoNR 的公司——美國 5G 的代言人。約翰會給你更多的細節。那 - 我們已經 - 所以現在我們已經開始工作了。這可能是我們最大的技術挑戰之一，我們非常感謝世界上的 Mavenirs 和我們的供應商，他們幫助我們實現了目標。沒有他們我們就不會到達那裡。所以——現在我們——我們開始盡可能快地推出它，但我們已經克服了這些障礙。但這正是我們進行商業發布所需要的。

So what happens is you're going to see a 6-month lag. I'm going to say 6 months. It could be a little less than that. But a 6-month lag from the time we get data to the time that we optimize that network fully to be able to do voice -- to do 5G voice because it's very tricky, and you have to have a very dense network to do it. John?

所以你會看到 6 個月的滯後。我要說6個月。它可能比那少一點。但是從我們獲得數據到我們完全優化該網絡以能夠進行語音的時間有 6 個月的滯後時間 - 進行 5G 語音，因為它非常棘手，你必須有一個非常密集的網絡才能做到這一點.約翰？

Yes. Thanks. Hi, everybody. It's John. Charlie hit a number of the key points. There's really 3 major things we need to accomplish. We need to get the 70%, as Dave talked about. We need to exit our TSA with T-Mobile, which we expect to complete by the end of the second quarter. And then we need to get our postpaid business up and running and expanding. We did launch Boost Infinite early access programs. It's riding closely alongside the progress with the network. We do have 12 big markets and 30 million POPs, where we're loading Boost Mobile customers onto our 5G network today with VoNR. We're happy with how the performance of the network is going, and we're starting to get devices onto that network.

是的。謝謝。大家好。是約翰。查理擊中了一些關鍵點。我們確實需要完成 3 件主要的事情。正如 Dave 所說，我們需要獲得 70%。我們需要通過 T-Mobile 退出 TSA，我們預計將在第二季度末完成。然後我們需要啟動、運行和擴展我們的後付費業務。我們確實推出了 Boost Infinite 搶先體驗計劃。它與網絡的進步密切相關。我們確實有 12 個大市場和 3000 萬個 POP，我們今天通過 VoNR 將 Boost Mobile 客戶加載到我們的 5G 網絡中。我們對網絡的性能感到滿意，並且我們開始將設備接入該網絡。

So we're now loading Motorola and, most recently, Samsung devices onto our DISH 5G network for Boost. And that sort of cleans the way for starting to work with Apple and get Apple-certified. Apple is obviously very important from a postpaid market share perspective. So we're working hard on that. And with Infinite, you'll see us get moving as an MVNO to build momentum, but then we can really hit the gas when we get devices onto our network in our markets.

因此，我們現在正在將摩托羅拉和最近的三星設備加載到我們的 DISH 5G 網絡上以進行 Boost。這為開始與 Apple 合作並獲得 Apple 認證掃清了道路。從後付費市場份額的角度來看，蘋果顯然非常重要。所以我們正在為此努力。借助 Infinite，您會看到我們作為 MVNO 開始行動以建立勢頭，但是當我們將設備接入我們市場的網絡時，我們才能真正發揮作用。

We do expect to increase our full commercial VoNR coverage, which is 30 million POPs today, includes markets like Dallas, Houston, Las Vegas, Cleveland to name a few. We do expect to be able to increase that by about 50% per quarter, and we certainly hope to beat that. We are getting tremendous support from our teams and many of our key partners in making that happen. But we like postpaid. We like it better with our own owners' economics, and we're full steam to go make that happen, and you'll start to see a Boost Infinite in the market here in the first half of the year with more marketing and advertising support.

我們確實希望增加我們的完整商業 VoNR 覆蓋範圍，即今天的 3000 萬 POP，包括達拉斯、休斯頓、拉斯維加斯、克利夫蘭等市場。我們確實希望能夠每季度增加 50% 左右，我們當然希望能超過它。為了實現這一目標，我們得到了我們團隊和許多主要合作夥伴的大力支持。但我們喜歡後付費。我們更喜歡我們自己的所有者經濟學，我們正全力以赴實現這一目標，今年上半年您將開始在市場上看到 Boost Infinite，並提供更多營銷和廣告支持.

By the way, just -- since you guys are -- many of your finance guys. A postpaid customer is materially more profitable than a prepaid customer. And I've said this many times that the marketplace to me as a former financial analyst is a bit upside down with prepaid being the most competitive in the world. Everywhere else in the world, prepaid is actually less competitive than postpaid or more expensive than postpaid. In postpaid, probably not as competitive as it should be. So it's a little bit upside down. So we're excited to be able to enter the really lucrative part of the wireless -- the consumer side.

順便說一句，只是——因為你們是——你們的許多財務人員。後付費客戶比預付費客戶更有利可圖。我已經多次說過，作為一名前金融分析師，市場對我來說有點顛倒，因為預付費是世界上最具競爭力的。在世界其他地方，預付費實際上不如後付費有競爭力，或者比後付費更貴。在後付費中，可能沒有應有的競爭力。所以有點顛倒了。因此，我們很高興能夠進入無線領域真正有利可圖的部分——消費者領域。

That's not to say the -- I believe, personally, the enterprise business will be equally or more lucrative for us, but the postpaid side has been a long time coming for us even -- we started with Ting on a small scale, but now we're able to -- with 30 million, you start to -- it starts to be something you can market. And by the end of this year, we'll have scale at 70% of the United States. That's about the size of where Sprint was. That starts to be interesting for us.

這並不是說——我個人認為，企業業務對我們來說同樣有利可圖或更有利可圖，但後付費方面對我們來說已經很長時間了——我們從 Ting 開始是小規模的，但現在我們能夠 - 有 3000 萬，你開始 - 它開始成為你可以推銷的東西。到今年年底，我們將在美國 70% 的地區擁有規模。這大約是 Sprint 的規模。這對我們來說開始很有趣。

Your next question comes from Doug Mitchelson with Credit Suisse.

你的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Doug Mitchelson。

I'm sorry, I'm here. Can you hear me?

對不起，我來了。你能聽到我嗎？

Yes, Doug.

是的，道格。

Sorry about that, interesting system. So I guess first question, Charlie, I'm just thinking about your broader strategy and financing needs in the next few years. So is the 11.75% pricing for DISH, latest bond issue, have you rethinking anything? I guess I think about they need to roll over your existing bonds, need to invest in wireless and then potentially buying out that T-Mobile spectrum as kind of 3 buckets of financing needs. And any clarity as to how you're think about those 3 things? And anything I'm missing and your latest thoughts would be helpful. And I've got a follow-up.

抱歉，有趣的系統。所以我想第一個問題，查理，我只是在考慮你未來幾年更廣泛的戰略和融資需求。 DISH 的 11.75% 定價，最新的債券發行，你有沒有重新考慮什麼？我想我認為他們需要展期您現有的債券，需要投資無線，然後可能購買 T-Mobile 頻譜作為 3 桶融資需求。您對這三件事有何看法？我遺漏的任何內容和您的最新想法都會有所幫助。我有後續行動。

Yes. Sure, Doug. Big picture is, obviously, we look at the marketplace and where we probably -- in the hindsight, we went a little too early for the bond deal before the first of the year. But we wanted certainty to make sure that we bet our build-out and took that overhang off the table and get into -- and so Paul can answer this maybe a little bit better. But we -- obviously, at DBS, we have a bond payment due on March 15. We intend to pay that with our DBS -- from DBS with cash on hand there. They continue to generate good cash flow, and we'll look at their maturities in the future with their cash flow.

是的。當然，道格。顯然，大局是我們著眼於市場以及我們可能 - 事後看來，我們在今年第一天之前就債券交易進行的有點太早了。但我們想要確定性，以確保我們押注我們的擴建並把懸垂物從桌面上移開並進入——所以保羅可以更好地回答這個問題。但我們 - 顯然，在星展銀行，我們有 3 月 15 日到期的債券支付。我們打算用我們的星展銀行 - 從星展銀行那裡用手頭的現金支付。他們繼續產生良好的現金流，我們將在未來用他們的現金流來看待他們的到期日。

And then obviously, we're looking at retail wireless and the network co to finance some of that business. And I think the first hurdle we look at there is a convert next year about -- in March. I think it is in next year, and we'll look to refinance that with hopefully an equity component.

然後很明顯，我們正在考慮零售無線和網絡公司來為部分業務提供資金。我認為我們看到的第一個障礙是明年 3 月份的轉換。我認為是在明年，我們將希望通過股權部分對其進行再融資。

The -- I think you talked about the 800 megahertz, that's -- we've said publicly, that's a nice to have. It's not a must-have. There are positive developments there. It's -- obviously, we built that frequency out, so there's not a build-out cost, incremental build-out costs for that. So there's some opportunity there. But we're not suicidal. We're not going to sacrifice balance sheet for some short-term gains.

- 我想你談到了 800 兆赫，那是 - 我們已經公開說過，這是一個很好的選擇。這不是必須的。那裡有積極的發展。它 - 顯然，我們建立了那個頻率，所以沒有構建成本，增量構建成本。所以那裡有一些機會。但我們不是自殺。我們不會為了一些短期收益而犧牲資產負債表。

So we will have capital needs in the future, but we're going to start -- our network is going to start generate a lot of cash, and we just got to make those two marry up in a timely manner. We're -- and relate that to the Street in a way that you guys can understand it. It's so deja vu for me back in the DBS business when exactly the same position. And once we launched our satellite, we had a period of time where we had to make it work and work out the kinks. But once we're able to do that, it started to generate a lot of long-term cash.

所以我們將來會有資本需求，但我們要開始——我們的網絡將開始產生大量現金，我們只需要及時讓這兩者結合起來。我們 - 並以你們可以理解的方式將其與華爾街聯繫起來。當我回到 DBS 業務時，在完全相同的位置上，這對我來說是如此似曾相識。一旦我們發射了衛星，我們就有一段時間必須讓它工作並解決問題。但是一旦我們能夠做到這一點，它就會開始產生大量的長期現金。

And interesting, the best metric for us early on there was premarketing cash flow. But it all turned -- I used to always say it was like a slot machine, you put $1 in and get $2 back every time you got a customer. So you couldn't go fast enough. I mean you put $1 in, but you got the $2 back over a period of years. So we're in a very similar situation as our network comes up to scale.

有趣的是，早期對我們來說最好的指標是上市前現金流。但一切都變了——我以前總是說它就像一台老虎機，每次有顧客時，你投入 1 美元，然後收回 2 美元。所以你不能走得足夠快。我的意思是你投入了 1 美元，但幾年後你又收回了 2 美元。因此，當我們的網絡達到規模時，我們處於非常相似的情況。

That lead right in my...

那條線索就在我的...

And that's before you add the enterprise business in which we have to prove to the Street, obviously. But internally, we know that, that's a place -- we know that's a place people are going to go.

顯然，那是在您添加我們必須向華爾街證明的企業業務之前。但在內部，我們知道，那是一個地方——我們知道那是人們要去的地方。

And that leads right into my follow-up, which is on the retail side since you've already addressed enterprise, when should we expect kind of a material ramp in subscribers? When does that kick in? Does that later this year, post to broad launch? Is that really a 2024 event? When does that start?

這直接導致了我的後續行動，這是在零售方面，因為你已經解決了企業問題，我們什麼時候應該期待訂戶的實質性增長？那什麼時候開始？今年晚些時候發佈到廣泛發布嗎？這真的是 2024 年的活動嗎？什麼時候開始？

You'll start seeing some numbers, but you won't see -- you're going to see a material ramp when you have scale, which I define as 70% with voice coverage. So again, given our build-out, take 6 months from build-out to optimize, so that gets you to 70% by the end of this year optimized. And then you can do things like national market and things because you have scale to do it. It doesn't mean that we're not going to put people -- that we're not going to add subscribers prior to that on our network. We will. But in terms of the hockey stick, it starts when you have scale on -- we're a good steward of capital.

你會開始看到一些數字，但你不會看到——當你有規模時，你會看到一個材料斜坡，我將其定義為 70% 的語音覆蓋。因此，再次考慮到我們的擴建，從擴建到優化需要 6 個月的時間，這樣到今年年底你就可以達到 70% 的優化。然後你可以做全國市場之類的事情，因為你有規模去做。這並不意味著我們不會讓人們——我們不會在此之前在我們的網絡上添加訂閱者。我們將。但就曲棍球棒而言，當你有了規模時，它就開始了——我們是資本的好管家。

And I'll just give you an example, but the prepaid business, if we invest $1 in the prepaid business, we get a small return on it. And if we invest $1 in the postpaid business, we get a big return. So we're obviously saving capital for the postpaid business, and that's a pivot that the market probably doesn't fully understand yet. It's not your fault. We haven't gone out and explained it to you. But that's a pivot that you're going to see this year, and you're going to see that, that makes a world of difference in the long-term financial stuff. And that's before you add enterprise.

我只是給你舉個例子，但是預付費業務，如果我們在預付費業務上投資 1 美元，我們就會得到少量回報。如果我們在後付費業務上投資 1 美元，我們將獲得豐厚的回報。因此，我們顯然正在為後付費業務節省資金，而這是市場可能尚未完全理解的一個支點。這不是你的錯。我們還沒有出去向你解釋過。但這是你今年將看到的一個支點，你將看到，這在長期金融領域產生了天壤之別。那是在您添加企業之前。

So if you give us no credit for enterprise, if you gave us 0 credit for enterprise, you'll see you'll ultimately be able to see it in the postpaid business that you can generate a return on capital from just the consumer, assuming that we can get our fair share of postpaid customers and continue to -- continue on the prepaid path, obviously, just not as a priority over postpaid.

因此，如果您不給我們企業信用，如果您給我們企業信用為 0，您將最終能夠在後付費業務中看到它，您可以僅從消費者那裡獲得資本回報，假設我們可以獲得公平的後付費客戶份額並繼續 - 繼續走預付費道路，顯然，只是不是優先於後付費。

Your next question comes from James Ratcliffe.

你的下一個問題來自 James Ratcliffe。

If I could, going back to the T-Mobile 800 megahertz, you said it's nice to have. I noticed you wrote up the value of the option in 4Q and attributed to both increase in option values and also increased probability. Can you talk about what drove the increased assessment of probability to exercise the option?

如果可以的話，回到 T-Mobile 800 兆赫茲，你說擁有它真好。我注意到您在第 4 季度寫下了期權的價值，並將其歸因於期權價值的增加和概率的增加。你能談談是什麼推動了對行使期權的可能性的評估增加嗎？

I can only say that there have been -- that there's positive things around that frequency, and that's about all I can say, and so that's why the probability went up and so forth.

我只能說，在那個頻率附近有一些積極的事情，這就是我所能說的，這就是為什麼概率上升等等。

So essentially, that became more appealing spectrum to own?

所以從本質上講，這變得更有吸引力了？

It -- I said there's positive developments in terms of a return on that spectrum.

它 - 我說過在該頻譜的回報方面有積極的發展。

Yes. This is Paul. I'll just jump in there. What happened is the probability that we would exercise has increased, which obviously leads to Charlie's comment that there's positive things going on there.

是的。這是保羅。我會跳進去。發生的事情是我們鍛煉的可能性增加了，這顯然導致查理評論說那裡正在發生積極的事情。

Your next question comes from John Hodulik.

你的下一個問題來自 John Hodulik。

Maybe a couple of follow-up questions if I could. So first of all, Charlie, does the pivot to the postpaid market come with substantially higher EBITDA losses as you sort of go after that market? I mean I've seen the EBITDA, the wireless EBITDA losses sort of ramp a bit. Does it ramp further from here as you go after that market? And then in terms of the timing, is the timing of the postpaid launch sort of more tied to the iPhone certification? Or is it the 70% voice coverage or both?

如果可以的話，也許還有幾個後續問題。所以，首先，查理，當你追逐那個市場時，轉向後付費市場是否會帶來更高的 EBITDA 損失？我的意思是我已經看到了 EBITDA，無線 EBITDA 損失有點斜坡。當你追逐那個市場時，它會從這裡進一步上升嗎？然後就時間而言，後付費推出的時間是否與 iPhone 認證更相關？還是 70% 的語音覆蓋率或兩者兼而有之？

I didn't hear -- I didn't get the first part of that, but let me maybe answer the question in a little bit broader terms, and you can ask a follow-up. The focus that we have is focus we have today as management is let's hit to 70% with the FCC milestone, right? That takes any chance of taking our spectrum back off the table. It takes something that a lot of times people focus on out of the conversation, and it's an unbelievable effort during COVID and supply chain shortages to even do that from a standing start. So it's -- it would be a real feather in our cap. We'd be really proud to do that. So that's the focus.

我沒聽到——我沒聽懂第一部分，但讓我用更廣泛的術語回答這個問題，你可以提出後續問題。我們的重點是我們今天的重點，因為管理層讓我們達到 70% 的 FCC 里程碑，對嗎？這會抓住任何讓我們的頻譜退出談判的機會。很多時候人們需要從談話中關註一些事情，而且在 COVID 和供應鏈短缺期間甚至從一開始就做到這一點是一項令人難以置信的努力。所以它 - 這將是我們帽子上的真正羽毛。我們會為此感到非常自豪。這就是重點。

The second focus has been to get off. As John mentioned, this is something that's important that the Street probably didn't focus on. But we're on 2 operating systems, OSS/BSS and the TSA that we have from T-Mobile and then our own internal. We've got to get everything to our own internal system. And we've got to migrate all those customers over, which is not as difficult as CDMA migration, but nonetheless, a big focus for us to do, and it takes a lot of time and effort to do it. So that, we got to get done. So those are 2 big things to get done before the end of the next quarter.

第二個重點是下車。正如約翰所提到的，這是華爾街可能沒有關注的重要事情。但我們使用的是 2 個操作系統，OSS/BSS 和 T-Mobile 的 TSA，然後是我們自己的內部系統。我們必須將所有內容都放到我們自己的內部系統中。我們必須將所有這些客戶遷移過來，這不像 CDMA 遷移那麼困難，但仍然是我們要做的一個重點，需要花費大量時間和精力。所以，我們必須完成。所以這些是在下一季度結束前完成的兩件大事。

And then to your point, you -- in postpaid world, obviously, Apple is a trusted partner and important for us. But we haven't been able to do kind of things that maybe they'd like us to do or we'd like doing the prepaid business. You just -- it's hard to sell $1,000 phone to customer that has no credit. But in the postpaid world, that's obviously a different issue. So we're excited to get started with them. And yes, I think it is a -- when the 15 comes out and you can put it on your network in a postpaid environment and you got -- and you're pretty close to scale at that point, I think that's a game changer for us to the extent that we get certified and have a business arrangement with Apple that's productive for both of us, right?

然後就你的觀點而言，你 - 在後付費世界中，顯然，Apple 是值得信賴的合作夥伴，對我們來說很重要。但我們無法做他們希望我們做的事情，或者我們想做預付費業務。你只是 - 很難將 1,000 美元的手機賣給沒有信用的客戶。但在後付費世界中，這顯然是一個不同的問題。所以我們很高興開始使用它們。是的，我認為這是——當 15 出現時，你可以將它放在後付費環境中的網絡上，然後你就得到了——到那時你已經非常接近規模了，我認為這是一個遊戲規則的改變者對我們來說，只要我們獲得認證並與 Apple 達成對我們雙方都有益的業務安排，對嗎？

So we have to focus on that because that's not done yet. But it gives you a feel for some of the big things that we work on. And last quarter, we were able to get a couple of things. We now have Samsung and Mavenir in our network. So we have 2 vendors that prove ORAN works. We have 2 vendors for radios, a third vendor in test that should be completed pretty soon. The world that -- we've got phones now, both on Motorola and Samsung, that work on our -- that have all our bands and for the network.

所以我們必須專注於此，因為那還沒有完成。但它讓您對我們所做的一些大事有所了解。上個季度，我們得到了一些東西。現在我們的網絡中有 Samsung 和 Mavenir。所以我們有 2 家供應商證明 ORAN 有效。我們有 2 家無線電供應商，第三家供應商正在測試中，應該很快就會完成。這個世界——我們現在有手機，包括摩托羅拉和三星，可以在我們的手機上工作——擁有我們所有的頻段和網絡。

So we're making a lot of progress every day. It's not showing up in the numbers yet, probably. Not going to show up in numbers next quarter. But then you're going to start seeing it, you'll start seeing the beginnings of that. And then as we get to scale, you'll see the real -- at that point, somebody will be glad they're an investor.

所以我們每天都在取得很大的進步。它可能還沒有出現在數字中。下個季度不會出現在數字中。但是你會開始看到它，你會開始看到它的開始。然後當我們擴大規模時，你會看到真實的——到那時，有人會很高興他們是投資者。

John, this is Paul. To answer your first question, our postpaid more costly from a SAC perspective to prepaid. As Charlie alluded to earlier, postpaid, we will end up subsidizing less. So it should be a cheaper acquisition costs when we add those subscribers.

約翰，這是保羅。回答你的第一個問題，我們的後付費從 SAC 的角度來看比預付費更昂貴。正如查理之前提到的，後付費，我們最終會減少補貼。因此，當我們添加這些訂戶時，它應該是一個更便宜的獲取成本。

SAC per se will probably be higher. Yes. But the subsidy will be lower. ARPU -- SAC -- that churn is much lower. So you just got to -- and again, the real world is today, we're seeing at least in the industry 1% churn in postpaid and we're seeing 4% plus in postpaid -- prepaid. So that gives you a feel for it. But look, I would say a postpaid customer is worth 5x when a prepaid customer is. I could be off by 1 turn there. It could be 6, it could be 4, but that -- if you -- anyway, you can see where that goes.

SAC 本身可能會更高。是的。但是補貼會少一些。 ARPU——SAC——流失率要低得多。所以你必須——再一次，現實世界是今天，我們在行業中看到至少 1% 的後付費流失，我們看到 4% 以上的後付費——預付費。這樣您就可以感受到它。但是，我會說後付費客戶的價值是預付費客戶的 5 倍。我可以在那裡轉一圈。可能是 6，也可能是 4，但是——如果你——無論如何，你可以看到它的去向。

For sure. And I guess just to finish that off. I mean -- but as you go after the postpaid opportunity, should we expect sort of an uptick in EBITDA losses to capture that opportunity from where we are here exiting the fourth quarter?

一定。我想只是為了完成它。我的意思是 - 但是當你追求後付費機會時，我們是否應該期望 EBITDA 損失有所上升以抓住我們退出第四季度的機會？

I hope so. In other words, we look at EBITDA, but we obviously look at -- we look at long-term cash flow, so EBITDA is not our driving force. It's all about cash. So we would -- it would be a nice problem to have, assuming we were doing it efficiently.

但願如此。換句話說，我們看的是 EBITDA，但我們顯然看的是——我們看的是長期現金流，所以 EBITDA 不是我們的驅動力。一切都與現金有關。所以我們會 - 這將是一個很好的問題，假設我們正在有效地做這件事。

Your next question comes from David Barden.

你的下一個問題來自大衛巴登。

It's Dave Barden from BofA. I guess a couple of ones. Just a housekeeping item, and maybe this is getting to the heart of the question of good things happening around 800 megahertz. But with the rerating of the value of that option, people are wondering if the opportunity exists to maybe sell that option to someone else or executed on someone's behalf, and we might look at that as a funding vehicle for DISH rather than kind of the entry point to spend $3.6 billion on spectrum you already have. The second question if I could would be...

我是美國銀行的戴夫·巴登。我猜有幾個。只是一件家務用品，也許這就是在 800 兆赫茲附近發生好事的問題的核心。但隨著對該期權價值的重新估值，人們想知道是否存在將該期權出售給其他人或代表某人執行的機會，我們可能會將其視為 DISH 的融資工具，而不是一種入市指向在您已經擁有的頻譜上花費 36 億美元。第二個問題，如果我可以的話……

I'll stop you there. I would just comment on that, and then you can ask your question that we're not going to do anything that doesn't make economic sense, right? But it's clear that we value the option, right? But we're not going to do anything that doesn't make it make economic sense. So that -- you could -- there's no downside in that option. There's no downside in doing nothing, right? There's only upside. And if your strategy was you would only do something if it was accretive, the only way you do anything, then it's a positive. Obviously, if you're suicidal and you do something at all costs, that might be a different story.

我會在那裡阻止你。我只想對此發表評論，然後你可以問你的問題，我們不會做任何沒有經濟意義的事情，對嗎？但很明顯，我們重視這個選項，對吧？但我們不會做任何不具有經濟意義的事情。所以 - 你可以 - 該選項沒有任何缺點。什麼都不做沒有壞處，對吧？只有好處。如果你的策略是你只會做一些有增值作用的事情，這是你做任何事情的唯一方式，那麼它就是積極的。顯然，如果你有自殺傾向並且不惜一切代價做某事，那可能就是另一回事了。

Fair Enough. And if I could maybe just do 2 follow-ups. So just maybe, Charlie, I think you kind of made an offhand remark about this earlier. But could you tell us a little bit about the process that maybe you think did or didn't happen that led to the Amazon/T-Mobile relationship? And whether you think that maybe there are other relationships like that, that could emerge in the private 5G network development space with the hyperscalers?

很公平。如果我可以做 2 次跟進。所以也許，查理，我認為你早些時候對此發表了一些不經意的評論。但是你能告訴我們一些你認為已經發生或沒有發生的導致亞馬遜/T-Mobile 關係的過程嗎？您是否認為在私有 5G 網絡開發空間中可能會出現其他類似的關係，這些關係可能會與超大規模應用程序一起出現？

And then my last question would just be related to the kind of -- Charlie, you keep talking about getting to scale and that being the gatekeeper, the threshold through which once you get there, you'll create scalable return opportunities. About a year ago in March, Verizon, who has more skin in the game than anyone, who's put $100 billion of money into this, laid out a multiyear game plan for revenue growth in May. You did kind of the same thing. Over the course of last year, Verizon, again, skilled player, presumably has the keys to most of the doors out there in the market, decided that, that opportunity wasn't nearly as large as they thought and had to really scale back people's expectations. And you guys have not kind of revisited that thought process. I'm interested to kind of understand why you think nothing's changed from kind of the view you had in May when it seems like all the other players have changed their view.

然後我的最後一個問題只是與那種 - 查理，你一直在談論擴大規模和作為看門人，一旦你到達那裡，你將創造可擴展的回報機會。大約一年前的 3 月，投入 1000 億美元的 Verizon 比任何人都參與其中，並在 5 月制定了一項收入增長的多年計劃。你做了同樣的事情。在去年的過程中，Verizon，再次，熟練的玩家，大概擁有市場上大部分門的鑰匙，決定，這個機會並不像他們想像的那麼大，必須真正縮減人們的期望。你們還沒有重新審視那個思維過程。我很想知道為什麼你認為你在 5 月份的觀點沒有任何改變，而似乎所有其他參與者都改變了他們的觀點。

Yes. Again, it boils down to we have a modern 5G smart network based in the cloud on Open RAN principles. That's the -- again, I'll say it again. That's Netflix versus Blockbuster. So if you're Blockbuster, you're not going to say, "Oh, we think OTT streaming." We thought it was a big thing, but we're scaling it back because you just can't do it. You can't do it with stores, right? But if you're Netflix, you say, "Well, we have the modern network. We have the modern technology." It took Netflix some time. Wall Street was very skeptical of them early on. It took them time to prove the concept. But it was better, faster, cheaper. And it's pretty hard to fail in business if you're better, faster, cheaper. And our network is going to be better, faster, cheaper. And it's architected different.

是的。同樣，它歸結為我們擁有一個基於 Open RAN 原則的雲端現代 5G 智能網絡。那就是——我再說一遍。那是 Netflix 與 Blockbuster 的對比。所以如果你是 Blockbuster，你不會說，“哦，我們認為是 OTT 流媒體。”我們認為這是一件大事，但我們正在縮減規模，因為你就是做不到。你不能用商店來做，對吧？但如果你是 Netflix，你會說，“嗯，我們有現代網絡。我們有現代技術。” Netflix 花了一些時間。華爾街很早就對他們持懷疑態度。他們花了時間來證明這個概念。但它更好、更快、更便宜。如果你做得更好、更快、更便宜，你就很難在生意上失敗。我們的網絡將變得更好、更快、更便宜。而且它的架構不同。

So it's -- I don't want to spend a lot of time on it because it's not something that's going to be readily understandable on this call. But you're starting to see the skepticism of Open RAN and the kind of things we're doing. You just saw a white paper from all the -- from the big players in Europe yesterday. They, almost verbatim, articulated DISH's and Marc Rouanne's architecture. They almost verbatim articulated everything we said. And they have legacy. So they're starting in more rural areas to start, right?

所以它 - 我不想在它上面花很多時間，因為在這次電話會議上它不是很容易理解的東西。但是您開始看到對 Open RAN 和我們正在做的事情的懷疑。你昨天剛剛看到了一份來自歐洲大公司的白皮書。他們幾乎一字不差地闡述了 DISH 和 Marc Rouanne 的架構。他們幾乎逐字逐句地表達了我們所說的一切。他們有遺產。所以他們開始在更多的農村地區開始，對吧？

So legacy is a negative for -- it's nice that you have scale. They all do it. But legacy is an anchor around their neck. And so we have an opportunity there to the extent that we execute. And obviously, you have to execute, and that's what we have to prove.

因此，遺產對 - 有規模是件好事。他們都這樣做。但遺產是他們脖子上的錨。因此，在我們執行的範圍內，我們有機會在那裡。顯然，你必須執行，這就是我們必須證明的。

And then obviously, the T-Mobile/Amazon, again, we're not exclusive to Amazon. They're not exclusive to us. Amazon got into and helped us. They've been a great partner. They've helped us a lot, and they're putting an investment in so that they can go sell this architecture to people around the world. And we would expect that many more telcos will sign up with Amazon or perhaps the other cloud providers because everybody now -- I think almost everybody believes the course should run in the cloud. And I think that they're going to get kind of the -- everybody is going to look at edge compute and some of those things. And that leads to -- that's a precursor to private networks.

然後很明顯，T-Mobile/亞馬遜，我們不是亞馬遜獨有的。它們不是我們獨有的。亞馬遜進入並幫助了我們。他們一直是很好的合作夥伴。他們給了我們很多幫助，他們正在投資，以便他們可以將這種架構賣給世界各地的人們。我們預計會有更多的電信公司與亞馬遜或其他雲提供商簽約，因為現在每個人 - 我認為幾乎每個人都認為該課程應該在雲中運行。而且我認為他們會有點——每個人都會關注邊緣計算和其中的一些東西。這導致 - 這是專用網絡的前身。

And so I guess maybe the Street looked at that as a negative at least as far -- I don't know the exact deal, but I think the more the merrier when it comes to private networks because I think you need -- that's something that you need competition between companies to make sure it scales.

所以我想也許華爾街認為這至少是負面的——我不知道確切的交易，但我認為私人網絡越多越好，因為我認為你需要——這就是你需要公司之間的競爭來確保它的規模。

Your next question comes from Kannan.

你的下一個問題來自 Kannan。

This is Kannan Venkateshwar from Barclays. Charlie, from a funding perspective, obviously, you mentioned the 800 megahertz is an option you can choose or not choose to exercise. And then from a scaling perspective, it sounds like the retail business in terms of scaling may happen more towards the end of the year or next year. Does that mean for this year, you don't need to raise any more capital and you're more or less done with capital business? Or should we expect more by way of funding?

我是巴克萊銀行的 Kannan Venkateshwar。查理，從資金的角度來看，顯然，你提到 800 兆赫是一個你可以選擇或不選擇行使的選項。然後從擴展的角度來看，聽起來零售業務在擴展方面可能會在今年年底或明年發生更多。這是否意味著今年您不需要再籌集資金並且您或多或少地完成了資本業務？還是我們應該通過資金來期待更多？

And secondly, I mean in some ways, funding is a discretionary choice for you. It depends on how fast you really want to go in order to build retail. And so would love to get your thoughts on the scaling there. Is it a function of the funding you can raise? Or is it independent of that? And you're going to essentially scale to 70% of the country once the network is up and running?

其次，我的意思是在某些方面，資金是你的自由選擇。這取決於您真正想要以多快的速度建立零售業。因此，很想了解您對那裡的擴展的想法。它是您可以籌集的資金的函數嗎？還是獨立於此？一旦網絡啟動並運行，您將實質上擴展到全國 70% 的地區？

The short answer is we don't need to raise capital this year to meet our business objectives, right? The second part is a little more complicated because everything is intertwined, everything is interrelated. So you -- I'd say it this way. Investors are smart, and they'll invest in good business plans and good management and to the extent they understand it. And so to the extent that we have good plans and good execution and to the extent that we need to go faster because it makes sense, then I think that -- and to the extent you would need to raise capital to do that, I think it would be available. To the extent you have a bad plan and bad management, you probably not. So I don't know. We're not arrogant, but I think we're confident. But we know we have a lot to learn. We know we're making a lot of mistakes, but we're through the hard part. I should say through to the hardest part.

簡短的回答是我們今年不需要籌集資金來實現我們的業務目標，對嗎？第二部分稍微複雜一些，因為一切都交織在一起，一切都是相互關聯的。所以你——我會這樣說。投資者很聰明，他們會在他們理解的範圍內投資於良好的商業計劃和良好的管理。因此，如果我們有良好的計劃和良好的執行，並且我們需要加快速度，因為這是有道理的，那麼我認為 - 以及您需要籌集資金來做到這一點的程度，我認為它將可用。如果你有一個糟糕的計劃和糟糕的管理，你可能不會。所以我不知道。我們並不傲慢，但我認為我們有信心。但我們知道我們有很多東西要學。我們知道我們犯了很多錯誤，但我們已經度過了艱難的時期。我應該說到最難的部分。

Got it. And anything on the scaling component, I mean, to what extent you might choose to maybe extend the service all throughout the country this year versus maybe doing it more gradually over the next couple of years?

知道了。關於擴展組件的任何事情，我的意思是，您可能會選擇今年在全國范圍內擴展服務，而不是在未來幾年內逐步擴展服務？

It's a good question. We will extend the postpaid throughout the whole country this year. Obviously, through some the country, that will be on -- that will ride on T-Mobile's or AT&T's network. So that's not as economical for us, but we will -- but it will give us nationwide scale, which is important. So a customer we put on T-Mobile or AT&T is more profitable than a prepaid customer by far, but it's not as profitable as to put them on our own network. So you can imagine how we'll play that. To answer your question, we will be nationwide on postpaid.

這是個好問題。今年我們要把後付費推廣到全國。顯然，在某些國家/地區，這將在 T-Mobile 或 AT&T 的網絡上運行。所以這對我們來說並不經濟，但我們會 - 但它會給我們帶來全國范圍的規模，這很重要。因此，到目前為止，我們使用 T-Mobile 或 AT&T 的客戶比預付費客戶更有利可圖，但不如將它們放在我們自己的網絡上有利可圖。所以你可以想像我們將如何玩。為了回答您的問題，我們將在全國范圍內採用後付費方式。

Your next question comes from Jonathan Chaplin.

你的下一個問題來自喬納森·卓別林。

Charlie, a couple of questions if I may. I'm wondering if you can give us an update on the DBS deal and the prospect of a wireless spin on DBS. I'm surprised given comments earlier that we actually haven't seen an announcement yet. So wondering what might be holding that deal up that seems so, obviously, in everybody's interest.

查理，請允許我問幾個問題。我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹 DBS 交易的最新情況以及 DBS 無線旋轉的前景。鑑於早些時候的評論說我們實際上還沒有看到公告，我感到很驚訝。所以想知道是什麼阻礙了這筆交易，這顯然符合每個人的利益。

And then you mentioned that you don't need to raise capital this year to meet business objectives. Do you need to raise capital before March 2025 to meet business objectives sort of leaving aside refinancing, the convert and things like that?

然後你提到你今年不需要籌集資金來實現業務目標。您是否需要在 2025 年 3 月之前籌集資金來實現商業目標，而不考慮再融資、轉換和類似的事情？

The second part, I would say based on what we see today, we would have to raise capital before March 2025. The -- I think there was a question about DBS deal. Obviously, I've said I've always felt that it was inevitable. I haven't changed my opinion on that, but we have nothing to report today.

第二部分，我想說，根據我們今天看到的情況，我們必須在 2025 年 3 月之前籌集資金。我認為有一個關於 DBS 交易的問題。顯然，我說過我一直覺得這是不可避免的。我對此沒有改變看法，但我們今天沒有什麼可報告的。

On wireless spin, the -- I mean, obviously, our Board looks at a lot of different opportunities. There's certainly -- the wireless business on the retail side is you can make the case. It's separate and apart from the wholesale side of our business. It does track a lot with what Erik and his team to do daily with DBS and Sling, a lot of the same potential customers and those kinds of things. So there potentially are strategic things that may make sense there, but nothing to announce today.

在無線旋轉方面，我的意思是，很明顯，我們的董事會會考慮很多不同的機會。當然 - 零售方面的無線業務是你可以證明的。它獨立於我們業務的批發方面。它確實跟踪了很多 Erik 和他的團隊每天使用 DBS 和 Sling 所做的事情，很多相同的潛在客戶和類似的事情。因此，可能有一些戰略性的事情在那裡可能有意義，但今天沒有什麼可宣布的。

Your next question comes from Bryan Kraft.

你的下一個問題來自 Bryan Kraft。

It's Bryan Kraft from Deutsche Bank. As Dave Barden alluded to in his question earlier, there's been a lot of discussion lately about the slower-than-expected pace of 5G adoption among enterprises. Many investors are asking the question as to whether there's some connection between that and Stephen Bye leaving his management role at DISH as Head of Enterprise. Can you just talk about what's going on there from a demand perspective? If you can share anything on maybe why Stephen decided to leave. And lastly, how you're managing the enterprise sales effort now? Who's leading that?

我是德意志銀行的 Bryan Kraft。正如 Dave Barden 之前在他的問題中提到的那樣，最近有很多關於企業採用 5G 的速度慢於預期的討論。許多投資者都在問這樣一個問題，即這與 Stephen Bye 離開 DISH 擔任企業負責人的管理職務之間是否存在某種聯繫。你能從需求的角度談談那裡發生了什麼嗎？如果你能分享任何關於 Stephen 決定離開的原因。最後，您現在如何管理企業銷售工作？誰在領導那個？

I can't speak for Stephen, but he did get an opportunity to be a CEO of the company, and he's well qualified for that. But I think Stephen would take a call, right? And obviously, he remains on our Board, important. I don't think -- I don't personally think that there was anything in his leaving that would reflect badly -- would reflect any kind of concern that the private enterprise business isn't a big business. I don't think -- if anything, I think that -- if anything, I think he and we are probably more optimistic than we were a year ago on that. So -- but feel free to call him because I just can't speak for him.

我不能代表斯蒂芬說話，但他確實有機會成為公司的首席執行官，而且他完全有資格擔任這一職務。但我認為斯蒂芬會接電話，對吧？顯然，他仍然留在我們的董事會，這很重要。我不認為——我個人認為他的離開不會有任何不好的反映——會反映出對私營企業業務不是大企業的任何擔憂。我不認為——如果有的話，我認為——如果有的話，我認為他和我們可能比一年前更樂觀。所以 - 但請隨時給他打電話，因為我不能代表他說話。

And can you just talk -- can you talk about who's leading the business now and how you're managing the sales effort leadership there now that he's no longer in that role?

你能不能談談——你能談談現在誰在領導業務，以及在他不再擔任該職位後你如何管理那裡的銷售工作領導嗎？

You want to take that, John?

你想接受嗎，約翰？

Yes. It's John Swieringa. Look, we've been building our team for the last 4 years. There's a lot of talent inside DISH Wireless now. So I don't think it's about any one person. And I'm personally calling on a number of enterprise customers as our several members of our senior management team. And I think the momentum is picking up to echo Charlie's comments. We're really busy having really good discussions with a lot of big companies, and that's what we expect to be doing. And I think we said earlier, we'd be seeing some of that business start to pick up next year. But we're not confused. Job 1 is getting our 5G network up and operating at scale. And there's a lot of focus there, and I can take the eye off the ball looking at other things that -- it's really about sequencing. We need to get the network up and running first, and then there's lots of opportunities in the pipeline we can take advantage of.

是的。我是約翰·斯維林加。看，過去 4 年我們一直在建設我們的團隊。現在 DISH Wireless 內部有很多人才。所以我不認為這是關於任何一個人的。我親自拜訪了一些企業客戶作為我們高級管理團隊的幾名成員。而且我認為勢頭正在回升以回應查理的評論。我們真的很忙與很多大公司進行非常好的討論，這就是我們期望做的事情。我想我們之前說過，明年我們會看到其中一些業務開始好轉。但我們並不困惑。工作 1 是建立我們的 5G 網絡並大規模運營。那裡有很多重點，我可以把注意力從球上移開，看其他事情——這真的與排序有關。我們需要先啟動並運行網絡，然後管道中有很多我們可以利用的機會。

Operator, one more from the analyst community before we move to media.

運營商，在我們轉向媒體之前來自分析師社區。

(Operator Instructions) And our final call from the analyst is coming from Michael Rollins.

（操作員說明）分析師的最後一通電話來自邁克爾羅林斯。

A question and a quick follow-up. So in terms of the wholesale side of the business, what are you seeing in terms of the potential to sign some large anchor wholesale deals for the 5G capacity you're building? And are there certain commercial milestones that you need to reach potentially different than what you outlined on the retail side in order to put DISH in a prime position for acquiring these wholesale opportunities?

一個問題和一個快速跟進。因此，就業務的批發方面而言，您如何看待為您正在建設的 5G 容量簽署一些大型錨定批發交易的潛力？為了使 DISH 處於獲得這些批發機會的首要位置，您是否需要達到某些商業里程碑可能不同於您在零售方面概述的里程碑？

And then just a quick follow-up on the network. I was just curious, as you're on this pace of building 1,000 or starting 1,000 sites per month. At what point in the future, does that pace change, either accelerate or decelerate from the current level?

然後只是在網絡上進行快速跟進。我只是很好奇，因為您正處於每月構建 1,000 個或啟動 1,000 個站點的速度。在未來的什麼時候，這種速度會發生變化，從當前水平加速還是減速？

This is Charlie. I think we've answered that first part of your question a number of times, but the -- from an enterprise side or private network side of the business, we're already positioned because we've got the architecture that we believe is required to do that properly, right? And that's before you get into things like AI and ChatGPT only a positive for what we're doing, which we properly foresaw as part of what we needed to be able to do.

這是查理。我認為我們已經多次回答了您問題的第一部分，但是 - 從企業方面或業務的專用網絡方面，我們已經定位，因為我們擁有我們認為需要的架構正確地做到這一點，對嗎？那是在你進入 AI 和 ChatGPT 之類的東西之前，這對我們正在做的事情來說只是一個積極的因素，我們正確地預見到這是我們需要能夠做的事情的一部分。

Scale will matter, and reaching 70% of the country will start opening up a lot more opportunities because now some conversations are only on a regional basis today. So that is probably the one thing that's missing, but we're not having to change the architecture of what we're doing. So we're already positioned and so forth.

規模很重要，覆蓋全國 70% 的地區將帶來更多機會，因為現在有些對話僅在區域範圍內進行。所以這可能是缺少的一件事，但我們不必改變我們正在做的事情的架構。所以我們已經定位等等。

And I think the thing is, ultimately, regardless of who signs private network deals, it's going to be a positive because if your competition does it -- if Uber signs a deal, then Lyft has to sign a deal or just going to be out of business as an example. So that's that part. And then on the -- what was the second part?

我認為最終的問題是，無論誰簽署私人網絡協議，這都將是積極的，因為如果你的競爭對手這樣做——如果 Uber 簽署協議，那麼 Lyft 必須簽署協議，否則就會退出以商業為例。這就是那部分。然後 - 第二部分是什麼？

Charlie, I'm talking more about the wholesale side of the equation. So like someone using you as their wholesale partner like an MVNO relationship, whether it could be a cable company or a big Internet company. So someone using you for national wholesale capacity to meet whatever strategy.

查理，我說的更多是等式的批發方面。因此，就像有人將您作為他們的批發合作夥伴，例如 MVNO 關係，無論是有線電視公司還是大型互聯網公司。所以有人利用你的全國批發能力來滿足任何戰略。

Yes. Same answer because we'd have to have scale in the network, and we have -- 2 things have to happen. We have to be off TSA from T-Mobile unless we -- again, our focus on for the first half of the year by end of June. And the second one, we have to have scale, which, again, we're focused on by the end of this year. Then I think we have a really neat platform for people who might be interested from a wholesale perspective, but that's very similar to what the enterprise opportunity is as well.

是的。相同的答案，因為我們必須在網絡中具有規模，而且我們有 - 必鬚髮生兩件事。我們必須從 T-Mobile 中脫離 TSA，除非我們再次將重點放在 6 月底之前的上半年。第二個，我們必須有規模，這也是我們今年年底前關注的重點。然後我認為我們為那些從批發角度可能感興趣的人提供了一個非常簡潔的平台，但這也與企業機會非常相似。

And then on the second -- I think that once we hit 70%, that, that 1,000 a month will decline. In other words, what -- at that point, there's -- I think Dave's focus -- I shouldn't talk for him, but since I'm talking, his focus will be to optimize the network within the markets that we are. There'll be some small sales. There will be some fill-in stuff as we get traffic on the network and find we have a dead spot. And we'll focus -- well, that will still be new towers, but it probably will be a lot less than the 1,000 run rate.

然後在第二個——我認為一旦我們達到 70%，即每月 1,000 個將會下降。換句話說，在那個時候，我認為戴夫的重點是什麼——我不應該為他說話，但既然我在說話，他的重點將是優化我們所在市場的網絡。會有一些小的銷售。當我們在網絡上獲得流量並發現我們有一個死點時，將會有一些填充內容。我們會關注——好吧，那仍然是新塔，但它可能會比 1,000 的運行率低很多。

Your next question comes from Mike Dano.

你的下一個問題來自 Mike Dano。

Hopefully, you can hear me okay. I had 2 separate questions. One is, can you just kind of explain how the network launch is going to work throughout the rest of this year? I mean do you have the voice VoNR service up and running now? And how is that going to be expanded? And how does that -- how does the rest of that like commercial launch of the DISH Network work throughout the rest of this year?

希望你能聽到我的聲音。我有 2 個不同的問題。一是，您能否解釋一下網絡啟動將如何在今年餘下的時間裡運作？我的意思是你現在啟動並運行語音 VoNR 服務了嗎？這將如何擴展？那是如何做到的——在今年餘下的時間裡，像 DISH 網絡的商業發布這樣的其餘部分是如何運作的？

And then my second question is if you could just talk about that, the satellite opportunity, there's a lot of companies that are offering satellite to phone services. And I wondered what your thoughts about that are, particularly given the ownership of EchoStar.

然後我的第二個問題是你是否可以談談衛星機會，有很多公司提供衛星電話服務。我想知道您對此有何看法，尤其是考慮到 EchoStar 的所有權。

This is John. I'll take the first part and then pass it to Charlie for the second. So I made a few comments on this earlier in the call. First of all, all of our on-air sites are providing 5G broadband. And now as a subset of those, we're going market by market to tune the market for commercial VoNR. As I said earlier, we now have handsets that are available through Boost Mobile that run on our DISH 5G network with commercial VoNR, and we view that as going pretty well.

這是約翰。我將完成第一部分，然後將其傳遞給查理進行第二部分。所以我在電話會議的早些時候就此發表了一些評論。首先，我們所有的直播站點都提供 5G 寬帶。現在，作為其中的一個子集，我們將逐個市場調整商業 VoNR 市場。正如我之前所說，我們現在擁有可通過 Boost Mobile 獲得的手機，這些手機在我們的 DISH 5G 網絡上運行，具有商業 VoNR，我們認為進展順利。

So as we look at really the 20% markets from last year, we're going through each of those markets and doing the optimization and the fill-in so that we can achieve commercial VoNR KPIs. When that happens, we load that market up with handsets that work on our network. And we start marketing services with those devices, and we are basically going to be launching new markets every -- sometimes every week. But as I said earlier, we expect to increase that 30 million POP footprint by about 50% every quarter, and we hope to beat that. And you'd see us certainly marketing services digitally in those areas, starting with Boost Mobile and then adding Boost Infinite.

因此，當我們真正審視去年的 20% 市場時，我們正在研究每個市場並進行優化和填充，以便我們能夠實現商業 VoNR KPI。發生這種情況時，我們會在該市場投放可在我們網絡上運行的手機。我們開始使用這些設備進行營銷服務，我們基本上每週都會推出新市場。但正如我之前所說，我們預計每個季度都會將 3000 萬個 POP 足跡增加約 50%，並且我們希望能夠超越這一目標。你肯定會看到我們在這些領域以數字方式營銷服務，從 Boost Mobile 開始，然後添加 Boost Infinite。

And we're doing quite a bit of work to prepare our indirect distribution to market and provide those devices to our customers. And you'll see us really picking up speed there as we do that throughout the year. And really by this time next year, we'd expect to have commercial VoNR available throughout the 70% footprint, as we've said earlier.

我們正在做大量工作來準備我們的間接分銷進入市場並將這些設備提供給我們的客戶。你會看到我們真的在那裡加快了速度，因為我們全年都在這樣做。正如我們之前所說，到明年這個時候，我們預計將在 70% 的覆蓋範圍內提供商業 VoNR。

And then this is Charlie. On satellite to handset or device, obviously, it's going to -- it might be a really good question to ask EchoStar on their conference call. But we're unique in that, obviously, the common ownership between the 2 companies, we're -- when you look at the 2 companies together, we understand satellites really well, we understand video really well, and now we understand the future of telco really well, all within the same sister company. So we're well positioned for -- a, we believe that there's going to be a big market for satellite to handset. There's a number of -- there's a half a dozen companies that are playing or announced that they want to play in that category. The FCC is going to do a rulemaking with some rules around it that are interesting. They will have to see -- they'll pick winners and losers when they do that. But we're well positioned.

然後這是查理。從衛星到手機或設備，很明顯，它會——在他們的電話會議上問 EchoStar 可能是一個非常好的問題。但我們的獨特之處在於，很明顯，兩家公司之間的共同所有權，我們——當你一起看這兩家公司時，我們非常了解衛星，我們非常了解視頻，現在我們了解未來電信公司真的很好，都在同一個姐妹公司內。因此，我們處於有利地位 - a，我們相信衛星到手機的市場將會很大。有很多 - 有六家公司正在參與或宣布他們想要參與該類別。 FCC 將圍繞它制定一些有趣的規則。他們將不得不看到——他們會在這樣做時選擇贏家和輸家。但我們的位置很好。

We are doing some satellite to handset today, both in Europe and the United States. We own spectrum -- a fair amount of spectrum in both North America and Europe. And as a result of that, we have a very clear understanding of the technical challenges to make that happen in a way that -- you might know satellites, but if you don't know telco, those 2 things, you have to make those things marry to each other.

我們今天在歐洲和美國都在做一些衛星到手機的工作。我們擁有頻譜——在北美和歐洲都有相當數量的頻譜。因此，我們非常清楚地了解實現這一目標所面臨的技術挑戰——你可能知道衛星，但如果你不知道電信，這兩件事，你必須做到事物相互結合。

And the big positive development there is that the 3GPP standard now has an NTN or nonterrestrial network standard that relates to satellite that has never been there before. So that in Release 17, that is there now, so chipset manufacturers can make something to a standard so that the handsets and devices can operate with satellites. So I think there'll be a number of players that will play there. There will be a number of players that will fail, and there's certainly room for one really, really good system.

最大的積極發展是 3GPP 標準現在有一個與衛星相關的 NTN 或非地面網絡標準，這是以前從未有過的。因此，在第 17 版中，芯片組製造商可以製定標準，以便手機和設備可以與衛星一起運行。所以我認為會有很多球員會在那裡踢球。會有很多玩家會失敗，而且肯定會有一個非常非常好的系統的空間。

Your next question comes from [Amy Maney].

你的下一個問題來自 [Amy Maney]。

I feel like the odd man out asking a video question. But the Cox Media blackout, should we probably not expect any resolution before the FCC weighs in on Standard General and TEGNA?

我覺得自己是個奇怪的人，在外面問視頻問題。但是 Cox Media 停電，在 FCC 對 Standard General 和 TEGNA 進行權衡之前，我們是否應該期待任何解決方案？

Yes, Amy, this is Erik. Obviously, the situation with Cox, we're open for discussions with Cox. But as we've talked about on the call before, retrans is one of those things that from a rate perspective is really going up higher than any cost of programming. And like we're -- as we talked about it on the wireless side, so you don't feel like such an outlier, I mean we are economic-focused. And so we look at the cost of the content and the benefits to our customers, all things being considered. I mean we'd rather have the Cox stations up than not. But at some point, it doesn't make economic sense for us.

是的，艾米，這是埃里克。顯然，對於 Cox 的情況，我們願意與 Cox 進行討論。但正如我們之前在電話會議上談到的那樣，從費率的角度來看，重新傳輸是真正比任何編程成本都高的事情之一。就像我們一樣——正如我們在無線方面討論的那樣，所以你不會覺得自己像個局外人，我的意思是我們以經濟為中心。因此，我們會考慮內容的成本和給客戶帶來的好處，所有的事情都被考慮在內。我的意思是我們寧願讓考克斯站起來。但在某些時候，這對我們來說沒有經濟意義。

And so we're unfortunately caught in that particular piece of negotiation, and Cox has decided to put our customers in the middle of it. And so I can't tell you when or if we will reach a resolution with Cox. But we've had a decent relationship, and we certainly hope that we would. But at this time, I can't announce any resolution.

因此，不幸的是，我們陷入了那場特殊的談判，考克斯決定讓我們的客戶參與其中。所以我不能告訴你我們何時或是否會與考克斯達成解決方案。但我們的關係很好，我們當然希望我們會這樣。但此時，我不能宣布任何決議。

And this is Charlie. I'd just add a couple of things. One is obviously TEGNA acquisition and trying to really get form and power that they already have is something for the FCC to look at. But the -- and obviously, that may have played into this particular dispute on their side. But the fact is that local broadcasters, I feel for them because they -- we have real statistics. We know what our customers watch, both on OTT and linear TV satellite. We absolutely know what they watch. We've seen the trends for 25 years.

這是查理。我只想補充幾件事。一個顯然是 TEGNA 的收購，並試圖真正獲得他們已經擁有的形式和力量是 FCC 需要考慮的事情。但是——很明顯，這可能對他們這邊的這場特殊爭論產生了影響。但事實是，本地廣播公司，我對他們有同感，因為他們——我們有真實的統計數據。我們了解客戶在 OTT 和線性電視衛星上觀看的內容。我們絕對知道他們在看什麼。我們已經看到了 25 年的趨勢。

The fact that the local networks now are going the path of regional sports where the cost gets so high that it's more -- any rational company will make more money by not having the service. And customers are continuing to show that they might have watched it and the broadcasters themselves are cutting back on the content, and so they're not producing -- the high-value drama shows and stuff are going somewhere else to OTT. Customers are following them there. And so the former president of NBC many years ago, he said that people go and watch the least objection of old programming, right? And that's true. And so our customers are going to find alternatives to the networks. And even the mainstay of professional football, which is probably the one mainstay they have, is readily available to a number of sources today.

事實上，地方網絡現在正在走上區域體育的道路，成本變得如此之高，以至於更多——任何理性的公司都會通過不提供服務來賺更多的錢。客戶繼續表明他們可能已經看過它，而廣播公司本身也在削減內容，因此他們沒有製作——高價值的戲劇節目和其他東西正在轉向 OTT 的其他地方。顧客在那裡跟著他們。許多年前 NBC 的前總裁說，人們去看舊節目的反對意見最少，對吧？這是真的。因此，我們的客戶將尋找網絡的替代方案。甚至職業足球的中流砥柱，這可能是他們擁有的一個中流砥柱，今天的許多來源都很容易獲得。

So the next step in retrans is down, not up. And the broadcasters have a budget, and they have debt to pay, and they haven't got the memo yet. So I think you're just going to see more people -- I just think you could -- and every time they lose a customer, they used to come back to them. But those Cox channels, they are not coming back to their local news, they are not coming back to those drama shows because now they're watching something on HBO or Netflix, and they've got hooked on some other show, and they're just not coming back. And the fact of the matter is that any customer that wanted Cox from us has left DISH. So now it's a tax if we put them back up.

所以重傳的下一步是向下，而不是向上。廣播公司有預算，他們有債務要償還，但他們還沒有收到備忘錄。所以我認為你會看到更多的人 - 我只是認為你可以 - 每次他們失去客戶時，他們都會回來找他們。但是那些 Cox 頻道，他們不會再回到他們的本地新聞，他們不會再回到那些戲劇節目，因為現在他們在 HBO 或 Netflix 上看一些東西，他們已經迷上了其他節目，他們”你只是不回來了。事實上，任何想要我們 Cox 的客戶都離開了 DISH。所以現在如果我們把它們放回去是一種稅收。

So that's the -- I said it about regional sports, I'm saying it now. That's where that's going. And it's a shame because the local broadcasters are caught in a vice between the network and the distributors. So we have some empathy for their plight, but we cannot be their bank unless we get a return. And right now, we don't get a return.

這就是——我說的是關於區域體育的，我現在說的。這就是事情的進展。令人遺憾的是，當地廣播公司陷入了網絡和分銷商之間的困境。所以我們對他們的困境有一些同情，但除非我們得到回報，否則我們不能成為他們的銀行。而現在，我們沒有得到回報。

If I can just throw in one more. I know that Sling just launched this free stream service. I mean do you see FAST channels as a way for some leverage when it comes to retrans or affiliate fees for channels?

如果我能再扔一個。我知道 Sling 剛剛推出了這項免費流媒體服務。我的意思是，當涉及到頻道的重新傳輸或聯屬網絡費用時，您是否將 FAST 頻道視為某種槓桿的方式？

I mean, Amy, I don't see FAST necessarily being leveraged for retrans. And obviously, there are certain things around that, that you're likely aware of. But I mean on Sling, it's as easy as customers -- the customers that we have on Sling loves Sling. But as you know, OTT is a bit seasonal. It's not much different from regional sports really. And so folks can come in and out very easy. And free stream is -- it's great for us to launch because it keeps folks kind of in our Sling ecosystem, right?

我的意思是，艾米，我不認為 FAST 一定會被用於重新傳輸。顯然，您可能已經意識到某些事情。但我的意思是，在 Sling 上，它就像客戶一樣簡單——我們在 Sling 上擁有的客戶都喜歡 Sling。但如您所知，OTT 有點季節性。它與區域性運動真的沒有太大區別。所以人們可以很容易地進出。免費流媒體是——它對我們來說很好推出，因為它讓人們在我們的 Sling 生態系統中保持某種程度，對吧？

And so we're trying to make it easy for customers to watch TV and have it be a seamless experience. Folks still love TV. Unfortunately, it's just gotten hard to watch TV. And so free stream helps to have customers without our Sling ecosystem that may want to pay for college football over the course of 4 months and then pick up some general entertainment on a FAST channel and come back for basketball. And so it's very easy for us. And it was just -- it makes sense for our Sling customers to have kind of a FAST offering, along with our direct-to-consumer offerings, where you can buy an AMC or Discovery Plus, et cetera.

因此，我們正在努力讓客戶更輕鬆地觀看電視，並獲得無縫體驗。人們仍然喜歡電視。不幸的是，看電視變得越來越困難。因此，免費流媒體有助於吸引沒有我們 Sling 生態系統的客戶，他們可能希望在 4 個月內為大學橄欖球付費，然後在 FAST 頻道上觀看一些一般娛樂節目，然後回來觀看籃球比賽。所以這對我們來說很容易。這只是——對於我們的 Sling 客戶來說，提供一種 FAST 產品以及我們直接面向消費者的產品是有意義的，您可以在其中購買 AMC 或 Discovery Plus 等。

So I don't see that necessarily -- where I see it impacting retrans is, obviously, there's more content to watch, and the content costs less. And so as Charlie said, when Cox goes down and you don't really miss your local news and you find it elsewhere, you don't go back. And so it makes linear TV that much harder.

所以我認為這不一定 - 我認為它影響重新傳輸的地方顯然是有更多的內容可供觀看，而且內容成本更低。正如查理所說，當考克斯倒閉時，你並沒有真正錯過當地的新聞，而是在別處找到它，你就不會回去了。因此，它使線性電視變得更加困難。

Amy, this is Charlie. We have no leverage against Cox or any local broadcasters. They are absolute monopolies in their markets. They have no leverage. But the consumer has leverage. And the consumer is saying to us, "We do not want you to raise our price." And there is so much content out there. There are so many places we can go that absent the Super Bowl, there's just not many in NFL football, which are now widely available in other places. There is no network programming that generates much excitement anymore.

艾米，這是查理。我們對考克斯或任何當地廣播公司沒有影響力。他們在他們的市場上是絕對壟斷的。他們沒有影響力。但消費者有影響力。消費者對我們說，“我們不希望你們提高我們的價格。”那裡有很多內容。我們可以去的地方太多了，沒有超級碗，NFL 橄欖球中的地方不多，現在在其他地方已經很普遍了。不再有令人興奮的網絡編程。

Or that type of stickiness.

或者那種粘性。

Or that kind of stickiness. So it's rare. So it's the -- they're the newspaper of the -- of this decade, which is you raise your price for newspapers and there's a few people continue to read the newspaper. I'm one of them. But the fact of the matter is that I don't read the newspaper. I get my news elsewhere now. And if I lost my newspaper tomorrow, I'm probably okay.

或者那種粘性。所以很少見。所以這是——他們是這十年的報紙——你提高了報紙的價格，還有一些人繼續閱讀報紙。我是其中之一。但事實是我不看報紙。我現在從別處得到消息。如果明天我的報紙丟了，我可能沒事。

Operator, we're a little tight on time. We'll take the last media question.

接線員，我們的時間有點緊。我們將接受最後一個媒體問題。

And our last question is coming from John Celentano.

我們的最後一個問題來自 John Celentano。

It's John Celentano from Inside Towers. And Charlie, no trick questions this time. I just wanted a clarification that you will be breaking out your subscriber numbers, 5G versus prepaid or MVNO numbers going forward? And when hosting that might happen?

我是 Inside Towers 的 John Celentano。查理，這次沒有詭計問題。我只是想澄清一下，你將打破你的用戶數量，5G 與預付費或 MVNO 號碼向前發展？託管時可能會發生這種情況？

Yes, I guess I'll look at Paul for that.

是的，我想我會看看保羅。

Well, we have no intention to do that right now. It's probably a little premature. As things progress, we'll take a look at that and consider it. Right now, we have no plans to do so.

好吧，我們現在無意這樣做。這可能有點為時過早。隨著事情的進展，我們會看看並考慮它。目前，我們沒有這樣做的計劃。

Okay. Well, it would help, but we look forward to that.

好的。好吧，這會有所幫助，但我們期待著。

All right. Thank you, everyone, for joining. Appreciate it, operator.

好的。謝謝大家的加入。欣賞它，運營商。

You're welcome. And this concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

不客氣。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。