DHT Holdings Inc (DHT) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you. Good morning and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome, and thank you for joining DHT Holdings' fourth-quarter 2024 earnings call. I'm joined by DHT's President and CEO, Svein Moxnes Harfjeld. as usual, we will go through financials and some highlights before we open up for your questions. The link to the slide deck can be found on our website, dhtankers.com.

謝謝。大家早安，下午好。歡迎並感謝您參加 DHT Holdings 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。與我一起參加的是 DHT 總裁兼執行長 Svein Moxnes Harfjeld。像往常一樣，在回答您的問題之前，我們將先介紹一下財務狀況和一些亮點。幻燈片的連結可以在我們的網站 dhtankers.com 上找到。

Before we get started with today's call, I would like to make the following remarks. A replay of this conference call will be available on our website, dhtankers.com, until February 13. In addition, our earnings press release will be available on our website and on the SEC EDGAR system as an exhibit to our Form 6-K.

在我們開始今天的電話會議之前，我想發表以下幾點評論。本次電話會議的重播將在我們的網站 dhtankers.com 上提供，直至 2 月 13 日。此外，我們的收益新聞稿將在我們的網站和 SEC EDGAR 系統上發布，作為我們 6-K 表的附件。

As a reminder, on this conference call, we will discuss matters that are forward-looking in nature. These forward-looking statements are based on our current expectations about future events as detailed in our financial report. Actual results may differ materially from the expectations reflected in these forward-looking statements. We urge you to read our periodic reports available on our website and on the SEC EDGAR system, including the risk factors in these reports for more information regarding risks that we face.

提醒一下，在本次電話會議上，我們將討論前瞻性的問題。這些前瞻性陳述是基於我們對財務報告中詳述的未來事件的當前預期。實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述所反映的預期有重大差異。我們敦促您閱讀我們網站和 SEC EDGAR 系統上提供的定期報告，包括這些報告中的風險因素，以獲取有關我們面臨的風險的更多資訊。

As usual, we will start the presentation with some financial highlights. We continue to show a very strong balance sheet with low leverage and significant liquidity. The fourth quarter ended with total liquidity of $258 million, consisting of $78 million in cash and $180 million available under our revolving credit facilities. At quarter end, financial leverage was 18% based on market values for the ships and net debt was $13.8 million per vessel, well below estimated residual ship values.

像往常一樣，我們將以一些財務亮點開始演示。我們的資產負債表持續保持強勁，槓桿率低，流動性強。在第四季結束時，總流動資金為 2.58 億美元，其中包括 7,800 萬美元現金和 1.8 億美元循環信貸額度。截至季末，根據船舶的市場價值，財務槓桿為 18%，每艘船的淨債務為 1,380 萬美元，遠低於估計的剩餘船舶價值。

Now over to the P&L. We achieved revenues on TCE basis of $85.5 million and EBITDA of $60.6 million for the fourth quarter. Net income came in at $54.7 million, equal to $0.34 per share. After adjusting for a non-cash reversal of prior impairment charges of $27.9 million, net income came in at $26.8 million, equal to $0.17 per share.

現在轉到損益表。我們第四季的 TCE 營收為 8,550 萬美元，EBITDA 為 6,060 萬美元。淨收入為 5,470 萬美元，相當於每股 0.34 美元。調整前期減損費用 2,790 萬美元的非現金沖銷後，淨收入為 2,680 萬美元，相當於每股 0.17 美元。

Vessel operating expenses for the quarter were $20 million, and G&A for the quarter was $5.6 million, of which the latter included a non-recurring item of $0.7 million. For the fourth quarter, the average TCE for all the vessels in the spot market was $38,200 per day, while the spot vessels under 15 years of age achieved earnings of $40,500 per day. The vessels from time-charter also made $40,500 per day, while the average combined TCE achieved for the quarter was $38,800 per day.

本季的船舶營運費用為 2,000 萬美元，本季的 G&A 費用為 560 萬美元，其中後​​者包括 70 萬美元的非經常性項目。第四季度，現貨市場所有船舶的平均TCE為每天38,200美元，而船齡在15年以下的現貨船舶的收益為每天40,500美元。期租船舶每天也可賺取 40,500 美元，而本季實現的平均綜合 TCE 為每天 38,800 美元。

Net income for the full year of 2024 was $181.5 million, equal to $1.12 per share. Adjusted for the non-cash reversal of prior impairment charges booked in the fourth quarter of $27.9 million, net income for 2024 came in at $153.6 million, equal to $0.95 per share, yet another strong year for DHT.

2024年全年淨收入為1.815億美元，相當於每股1.12美元。在調整第四季提列的 2,790 萬美元的非現金前期減損費用沖銷後，2024 年的淨收入為 1.536 億美元，相當於每股 0.95 美元，這對 DHT 來說又是一個強勁的一年。

Vessel operating expenses for 2024 were $78.6 million, which includes a non-recurring insurance deductible and G&A for 2024 was $18.9 million. We estimate G&A for 2025 to be about $18 million, equal to an average quarterly run rate of $4.5 million. Depreciation for 2024 was $111.9 million. And based on our current fleet, we estimate our annual depreciation for 2024 to be about $110 million.

2024 年船舶營運費用為 7,860 萬美元，其中包括非經常性保險免賠額，2024 年的 G&A 費用為 1,890 萬美元。我們預計 2025 年的 G&A 費用約為 1800 萬美元，相當於平均季度運行率 450 萬美元。2024 年折舊為 1.119 億美元。根據我們目前的船隊規模，我們預計 2024 年每年的折舊額約為 1.1 億美元。

For 2024, our spot vessels achieved $47,200 per day, while the average combined TCE came in at $45,200 per day. The spot vessels under 15 years of age achieved earnings of $49,800 per day for the full year of 2024.

到 2024 年，我們的現貨船舶日運價達到 47,200 美元，而平均綜合 TCE 達到 45,200 美元/天。2024年全年，船齡低於15年的現貨船舶的日收入為49,800美元。

On this slide, we present the cash flow highlights for the fourth quarter. We started the quarter with $74 million in cash, and we generated $60.6 million in EBITDA. Ordinary debt repayment and cash interest amounted to $15.1 million, $35.5 million was allocated to shareholders through a cash dividend and $13.2 million was used for share buybacks. $12.9 million was used for our newbuilding program, while $10 million was drawn under our available RCF. Positive changes in working capital amounted to $9.3 million, and the quarter ended with $78 million in cash.

在這張投影片中，我們展示了第四季的現金流亮點。本季初我們的現金為 7,400 萬美元，EBITDA 為 6,060 萬美元。普通債務償還和現金利息為 1,510 萬美元，3,550 萬美元透過現金股利分配給股東，1,320 萬美元用於股票回購。其中 1290 萬美元用於我們的新船建造項目，1000 萬美元則從我們的可用 RCF 中提取。營運資本的正變動為 930 萬美元，本季末的現金為 7,800 萬美元。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Svein.

說完這些，我將把電話轉給斯維恩。

Thank you, Laila. We'll talk about our business update. So during December, we took advantage of the soft period in the capital markets to repurchase our own shares to the tune of 1.5 million shares, just shy of 1% of the company. The average price was $8.89, almost $3 lower than yesterday's closing price and accretive to earnings per share and net asset value by a good margin.

謝謝你，萊拉。我們將討論我們的業務更新。因此，12 月份，我們利用資本市場的疲軟期，回購了 150 萬股自己的股票，略低於公司股份的 1%。平均價格為 8.89 美元，比昨日的收盤價低近 3 美元，每股收益和淨資產價值大幅增加。

We entered into agreement to sell our oldest ship, the DHT Scandinavia built in 2006 for a price of $43.4 million. The vessel was debt-free, and we expect the sale to generate a book gain of about $19.8 million. The cash proceeds will be allocated to general corporate purposes here under investments in vessels, share buybacks, and prepayment of debt. The vessel was delivered to our new owners during January.

我們已達成協議，以 4,340 萬美元的價格出售我們最古老的船舶，即 2006 年建造的 DHT Scandinavia 號。該船沒有債務，我們預計此次出售將產生約 1,980 萬美元的帳面收益。現金收益將分配給船舶投資、股票回購和債務預付等一般公司用途。該船已於一月份交付給我們的新主人。

During the quarter, we paid $12.8 million in installments under our newbuilding program, taking total installments during 2024 to $90.1 million. Subsequent to the quarter, we secured a one-year time charter for DHT China built 2007 at $40,000 per day. The contract commenced towards the end of January.

本季度，我們根據新造船計畫分期付款 1,280 萬美元，2024 年的總分期付款額達到 9,010 萬美元。本季度之後，我們獲得了一份為期一年的定期租船合同，租船合約為 DHT 號，中國於 2007 年建造，租金為每天 40,000 美元。合約於一月底開始生效。

On this slide, we will discuss capital allocation and dividend specifically. The dividend for the fourth quarter of 2024 is declared at $0.17 per share. This is as per our capital allocation policy of paying out 100% of ordinary net income as quarterly cash dividends and marks our 60th consecutive quarterly cash dividend. The shares will trade ex-dividend on February 18, and the dividend will be paid on February 25.

在這張投影片中，我們將具體討論資本配置和股利。2024 年第四季的股息為每股 0.17 美元。這是根據我們的資本配置政策，將 100% 的普通淨收入作為季度現金股利支付，這也是我們連續第 60 次季度現金股利。該股將於2月18日除息，股利將於2月25日支付。

In the graph to the left, we update our estimated P&L and cash breakeven levels for 2025. As you will see, the difference between the two is estimated at $7,000 per day for the year. This discretionary cash flow will remain in the company and be allocated to general corporate purposes with the intention being to fund installments under our newbuilding program.

在左邊的圖表中，我們更新了 2025 年預計的損益和現金損益平衡水準。如您所見，兩者之間的差額估計為全年每天 7,000 美元。該可自由支配的現金流將留在公司，並分配給一般公司用途，旨在為我們的新造船計劃提供分期付款。

The graph on the right illustrates the accumulated dividend since updating our capital allocation policy from the third quarter of 2022. Accumulated amount is $2.36 per share and reflects well during a period in which our share price has appreciated, and we made share buybacks totaling $32 million, equal to 2.3% of the company.

右側的圖表顯示了自 2022 年第三季更新資本配置政策以來的累積股息。累計金額為每股 2.36 美元，反映出我們股價上漲期間的良好表現，我們共回購了 3,200 萬美元的股票，相當於公司股份的 2.3%。

We will now discuss the bookings to date for the first quarter of 2025. We expect to have 604 time-charter days covered for the first quarter at $41,700 per day, a marginal improvement when compared to the prior quarter. This rate assumes only the base rate for February and March for the time-charter contract that has profit sharing feature. We assume 1,475 spot days in the quarter, of which 74% have been booked at an average rate of $36,400. Our ships that are younger than 15 years of age have been booked at $37,100 per day.

我們現在將討論 2025 年第一季迄今的預訂情況。我們預計第一季的定期租船時間為 604 天，租金為每天 41,700 美元，與上一季相比略有改善。此費率僅假設具有利潤分享功能的定期租船合約二月和三月的基本費率。我們假設本季有 1,475 個現貨天數，其中 74% 已被預訂，平均價格為 36,400 美元。我們的船齡不到15年的船舶的預訂租金為每天37,100美元。

You will note that we have improved the rates on the bookings when compared to our business update of January 5. The current spot market for modern vessels with exhaust gas cleaning systems are in the $55,000 to $60,000 range. The spot P&L breakeven for the quarter is estimated to be $21,700 per day, a number you might use to estimate the net income contribution from our spot fleet for the first quarter.

您會注意到，與 1 月 5 日的業務更新相比，我們提高了預訂價格。目前配備廢氣清潔系統的現代化船舶的現貨市場價格在 55,000 至 60,000 美元之間。本季的現貨損益平衡點估計為每天 21,700 美元，您可以使用這個數字來估算我們第一季現貨船隊的淨收入貢獻。

We believe our market is increasingly becoming a highly constructive supply story. Here, we illustrate the demographics of the VLCC fleet. Maybe not news to many of you, but nevertheless, we think it's important to reinforce the obvious, which is that the VLCC fleet is set to shrink and at a time when demand for our services is growing.

我們相信我們的市場正日益成為一個高度建設性的供應故事。這裡我們展示了 VLCC 船隊的人口統計。這對許多人來說可能不是什麼新鮮事，但儘管如此，我們認為有必要強調一個顯而易見的事實，那就是 VLCC 船隊規模將會縮減，而此時對我們服務的需求正在增長。

By the end of 2026, we estimate 444 VLCCs to be older than 15 years of age. At the same point in time, 202 are estimated to be older than 20 years and 184 to be older than 25 years. These are staggering numbers and will increasingly support our business.

到 2026 年底，我們預計將有 444 艘 VLCC 的船齡超過 15 年。同一時間點，估計有 202 人的年齡超過 20 歲，有 184 人的年齡超過 25 歲。這些是驚人的數字並將不斷支持我們的業務。

In the same context, we estimate almost 200 VLCCs to belong to the so-called shadow fleets. Following the recent additional sanctions, 97 VLCCs are now sanctioned, making it harder for these vessels to operate and serve a purpose.

在同樣的背景下，我們估計有近 200 艘 VLCC 屬於所謂的影子船隊。繼最近的額外制裁之後，目前已有 97 艘超大型油輪受到製裁，這使得這些船舶的運作和使用變得更加困難。

For avoidance of doubt, these vessels are mostly in the older end of the sailing fleet, hence included in the prior stated fleet demographics. The order book for new VLCCs is benign with about 9.3% of capacity on order. There will be 5 ships delivered this year, 24 in '26, 44 in '27, and 14 estimated for '28.

為避免疑問，這些船隻大多屬於較老的帆船隊，因此包括在先前聲明的船隊人口統計中。新型超大型油輪（VLCC）訂單情況良好，訂單量約佔9.3%。今年將有 5 艘船舶交付，2026 年將有 24 艘，2027 年將有 44 艘，2028 年預計有 14 艘。

Next slide. Here, we will give some general market commentary. The US is actively announcing sanctions and tariffs. Some will have limited impact on our market, but some could be of significant support to freight rates.

下一張投影片。在這裡，我們將給出一些一般的市場評論。美國正在積極宣布製裁和關稅。有些對我們的市場影響有限，但有些可能會對運費產生重大支持。

Overall, we expect sanctions and tariffs to somewhat disrupt trade, but in contrast to the impacts from the Russia-Ukraine conflict, we expect VLCCs to be in high demand. Sanctions and fiscal issues with some of the teapot refinery industry in China is resulting in changed procurement behavior of crude oil as state-owned refineries are increasingly taking a prominent role, which likely result in a reduced role for the shadow fleets.

總體而言，我們預計制裁和關稅將在一定程度上擾亂貿易，但與俄羅斯-烏克蘭衝突的影響相比，我們預計超大型油輪的需求將會很高。中國部分「茶壺煉油廠」受到製裁和財政問題影響，導致原油採購行為改變，國有煉油廠發揮的作用日益突出，這可能導致影子煉油廠的作用減弱。

China has announced supportive fiscal policy measures and stimuli, which we assume will drive increased economic activity and consumption. This, combined with net new refining capacity coming on stream should result in some 300,000 barrels per day increased demand for 2025. We further note that refining margins in China has lately improved, signaling a successful reduction in inventories and increased economic activity.

中國已宣布支持性財政政策措施和刺激措施，我們認為這將推動經濟活動和消費的成長。再加上即將投入使用的新增煉油能力，到 2025 年，石油需求將增加約 30 萬桶/日。我們進一步注意到，中國的煉油利潤率最近有所提高，這表明庫存成功減少且經濟活動增加。

As mentioned in the business outlook, the spot market for modern VLCCs with exhaust gas cleaning systems are now in the $55,000 to $60,000 a day range, with good support and a possibly continued upward trajectory. There is significant interest from customers for time-charter contracts, reflecting an aligned view that the market is fast becoming tighter as the modern and compliant fleet is set to shrink over the next few years.

正如業務展望中所提到的，配備廢氣清潔系統的現代超大型油輪的現貨市場目前在每天 55,000 至 60,000 美元的範圍內，具有良好的支撐作用，並且可能繼續呈上升趨勢。客戶對定期租船合約表現出濃厚興趣，反映出一種一致的觀點：隨著未來幾年現代化和合規的船隊數量將減少，市場將迅速變得更加緊俏。

Based on positive feedback and encouragement from our key stakeholders, namely shareholders, customers and lending banks, we believe we have an appropriate strategy tailored to the structure of our market, focusing on solid customer relations, offering safe and reliable services, maintaining a competitive cost structure with robust breakeven levels, a solid balance sheet and a clear capital allocation policy.

基於我們的主要利害關係人，即股東、客戶和貸款銀行的積極回饋和鼓勵，我們相信我們有一個適合我們市場結構的適當策略，專注於穩固的客戶關係，提供安全可靠的服務，維持具有強勁盈虧平衡水平的競爭力成本結構，穩健的資產負債表和明確的資本配置政策。

The whole DHT team appreciates this encouragement and continues to work hard and operate with leading governance standards and a high level of integrity. And operator, over to you.

整個DHT團隊都感謝這份鼓勵，並將繼續努力工作，以領先的治理標準和高度的誠信運作。接線員，交給你了。

(Operator Instructions) Jon Chappell, Evercore ISI.

（操作員指示）Jon Chappell，Evercore ISI。

So since the last call, when I asked about kind of fleet development, you've sold Scandinavia and then you locked into China. So it seems like you're derisking some of the older vessels in your fleet. As we think about going forward, differences now in maybe the optimism around asset values and time-charter market, what do you think is the best path forward for again, kind of the older ships in your fleet where maybe you don't need as much spot exposure? Is monetizing them a better alternative versus the time-charter market or vice versa?

所以自從上次通話以來，當我問到船隊發展情況時，您已經出售了斯堪的納維亞半島，然後鎖定了中國。因此，看起來你們正在降低船隊中一些較舊船隻的風險。當我們考慮未來時，現在的差異可能是對資產價值和定期租船市場的樂觀情緒，您認為最好的前進道路是什麼，對於您船隊中較舊的船隻，也許您不需要那麼多的現貨風險？與定期租船市場相比，將其貨幣化是否是更好的選擇，反之亦然？

So we have now three ships built in 2007 in our fleet. Two of them are on time charter, one which we talked about on this call at $40,000 a day for this year, and one that started in last summer, which is ending end of second quarter at $49,500 per day. So these are two very good time charters. The third vessel is in the spot market.

我們的船隊目前有三艘 2007 年建造的船隻。其中兩艘船是按期租船，一艘是我們這次電話會議上討論的，今年的租船價格為每天 40,000 美元，另一艘船於去年夏天開始租船，到第二季度末，租船價格為每天 49,500 美元。這是兩份非常好的定期租船合約。第三艘船目前在現貨市場。

So we might consider to divest one or two other ships depending on time and price, obviously. So the two on time charter will continue to operate at least through their charters. But also these ships have basically no debt. So there is sort of an interesting opportunity in a way to monetize that in a way and then reinvest the money in the company in one way or another in line with sort of our capital allocation policies in general.

因此，我們顯然可能會考慮根據時間和價格剝離一兩艘其他船隻。因此，這兩艘按時租船的船隻將至少透過其租船合約繼續運作。而且這些船基本上沒有債務。因此，這是一個有趣的機會，可以以某種方式將其貨幣化，然後根據我們整體的資本配置政策，以某種方式將資金重新投資於公司。

So that's really all I can say now, but it's not that easy to sell older ships. You might have an interest, but it might be a counterparty you cannot transact with also. So that sort of raises the hurdle a bit to get it done.

所以現在我只能說這些，但是出售舊船並不是那麼容易。您可能有興趣，但也可能是您無法與之交易的交易對手。所以這在某種程度上增加了完成這件事的難度。

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. And then as far as the newbuilds are concerned, we've seen the progress payments and what's laid out for the next 12 months, and you still have some time. But what was the -- what's kind of the model financing plan for those ships, number one? And number two, just given the fuel efficiencies of them, et cetera, have you received any interest thus far on potentially locking those in? Or is the plan to keep them kind of the optionality of using the spot market next year?

正確的。是的，這很有道理。就新建專案而言，我們已經看到了進度付款以及未來 12 個月的計劃，而且您還有一些時間。但是，首先，這些船舶的融資計畫模式是什麼樣的呢？第二，考慮到它們的燃油效率等等，到目前為止您是否對鎖定它們感興趣？或者計劃是讓他們保留明年使用現貨市場的選擇性？

Thank you. So the base case for debt financing on those ships is a $60 million per vessel. But the chances are we might up that somewhat, and that's based on the sort of negotiations we have now on the financing that we intend to put in place. So if we finance more than the $60 million, we will then reallocate how the debt is distributed in the fleet potentially. So it should be sort of a very good outcome for the company.

謝謝。因此，這些船舶的債務融資基本情況是每艘 6,000 萬美元。但我們有可能稍微提高這一水平，這取決於我們目前就我們打算進行的融資進行的談判類型。因此，如果我們的融資額超過 6,000 萬美元，我們就會重新分配船隊債務的分配方式。所以這對公司來說應該是一個非常好的結果。

And we are quite excited about the terms and the commercial pricing of what we expect to put in place. Our target is to close this at some point in the second quarter of the year. So in general, we have great support from our banking group and have several sort of proposals on the table.

我們對於即將實施的條款和商業定價感到非常興奮。我們的目標是在今年第二季的某個時候完成這一目標。因此總體而言，我們得到了銀行集團的大力支持，並提出了幾種建議。

Your next question was on the fuel efficiency of these ships and whether we have received any interest? So in general, there is significant interest for time charters. There are two clients, in particular, that have showed interest in the newbuildings. But it's too early to say whether this is something we can execute on. As normal, there's always a bit of a delta between what the customer wants and what we want.

您的下一個問題是關於這些船舶的燃油效率以及我們是否引起了任何興趣？因此整體而言，人們對定期租船有濃厚的興趣。有兩位客戶特別對新船表現出了興趣。但現在說我們是否可以執行這項計畫還為時過早。正常情況下，客戶的需求和我們的需求之間總是會有些差異。

So -- but I think with the tailwind from the spot market going forward now, it should be possible to get to something that could make very good both commercial and financial sense for DHT.

所以 — — 但我認為，隨著現貨市場的順風，應該能夠實現對 DHT 具有商業和財務意義的成果。

Frode Morkedal, Clarksons Securities.

Frode Morkedal，克拉克森證券。

First question, can you just talk about the recent jump in VLCC spot rates? And yeah, whether you think these levels are sustainable? What's driving the strength? And how do you see the market developing from here?

第一個問題，您能談談近期 VLCC 現貨運費的上漲嗎？是的，您是否認為這些水平是可持續的？是什麼推動了這種力量？您認為今後市場將如何發展？

I think the market in general is very, very tight. And this sort of downward trajectory we had in the end of last year was mostly driven by some inventory changes and the lack of runs in -- at the refineries in China. But that -- those inventories seems to sort of been worked off, as you can now see on the refining margins in China. So that's one aspect.

我認為整個市場非常非常緊張。而去年年底的這種下降趨勢主要是由於庫存變化以及中國煉油廠的缺乏運作所致。但這些庫存似乎已經被消耗掉了，正如你現在在中國的煉油利潤上看到的那樣。這是一個方面。

The other is, as I mentioned, the market is finely balanced, and it didn't take much to bring the market down in one way. But more importantly, it didn't take much to bring the market up. So the sentiment, in particular, in the reaction to sanctions was very dramatic. The market moved very, very fast without necessarily more cargoes in the market, but just on expectations. We had a little bit of a setback, but then we are back up again.

另一方面，正如我所提到的那樣，市場處於微妙的平衡狀態，不需要太大的努力就能讓市場陷入低迷。但更重要的是，並不需要花太多心力就能推動市場上漲。因此，人們對制裁的反應尤其激烈。市場走勢非常快，但不一定意味著市場上有更多的貨物，而只是基於預期。我們遇到了一點挫折，但後來我們又重新站起來了。

And now we feel that there's more substance and there's more cargo in the market. At the same time, as I talked about in detail, the fleet is really, really getting tighter and tighter. And there are so many pieces to the puzzle now. It's a bit hard to be precise on which component is the driving factor. And I prefer to look at it more like the tipping point at the glass at some point is just full, right? And it's flowing -- it's overflowing. So -- and in a way, that's what I think we are seeing potentially the beginning of.

現在我們感覺市場上的實質內容和貨物也更多了。同時，正如我詳細談到的，艦隊確實越來越緊張了。現在，這個難題已經變得十分複雜。很難準確指出哪個組件是驅動因素。我更願意把它看作是玻璃的臨界點在某個時刻就是滿的，對嗎？它正在流動——它正在溢出。所以 — — 從某種程度上來說，我認為我們正在看到潛在的開始。

That's good to hear. Next is on the capital allocation. You talked about it, I guess. But you sold the ship in December and used part of the proceeds to buy back shares at very attractive levels, I would say. So that made a lot of sense. But of course, now the stock is back to your one-time NAV, more or less. So the question is, do you see better opportunities elsewhere like second-hand vessel transactions? Or are buybacks still on the table?

我很高興聽到這個消息。接下來是資本配置。我想你已經談論過它了。但我想說，你們在 12 月賣掉了這艘船，並用部分收益以非常有吸引力的價格回購了股票。所以這很有意義。但當然，現在股票或多或少已經回到你的一次性資產淨值了。那麼問題是，您是否在其他地方看到了更好的機會，例如二手船交易？或是仍在考慮回購？

So I think just to clarify, the buybacks we did in December, they were done with the resources at hand. They were not dependent on us selling the ship. We felt there was a dislocation in the capital markets compared to the underlying dynamics of our business. So when we traded below $9, we were acting on that. And I think in hindsight, that proved to be a very good decision.

因此，我認為需要澄清的是，我們在 12 月進行的回購都是利用手邊的資源完成的。他們不依賴我們出售船舶。我們感覺資本市場與我們業務的基本動態存在脫節。因此，當我們的交易價格低於 9 美元時，我們就採取了行動。我認為現在看來，這是一個非常好的決定。

As we also then stated, we have three purposes for the cash proceeds from the sale of Scandinavia. It's either vessel acquisitions, as you asked about, buybacks or debt prepayments. Where the share price is pricing now, we are normally not buying back stock.

正如我們當時所說，出售斯堪的納維亞所得的現金收益有三個用途。正如您所問的，它要么是船舶收購，要么是回購，要么是債務預付。如果股價現在處於這種定價水平，我們通常不會回購股票。

We are always on the lookout for good investment opportunities in ships, but they are hard to find, frankly, as a number of sort of aspects that has to be met in terms of age, ship design, delivery, et cetera, and price, of course. So -- but we have the capacity financially to do that if we want to.

我們一直在尋找良好的船舶投資機會，但坦白說，這樣的機會很難找到，因為需要滿足船齡、船舶設計、交付等方面的諸多要求，當然還有價格。所以——但如果我們願意的話，我們就有財力來做到這一點。

Then lastly, of course, then is debt prepayments that would reduce interest expense in the company? Then it's a detailed question of whether we then increase our RCF capacity so we can access the funds to other activities later if we want to, or as we've done many times in the past, focus the prepayments on taking out scheduled installments or amort over certain periods. So we are yet to finally decide on that, and there will maybe be more clarity on that when we present our first quarter earnings.

最後，當然，預付債務可以減少公司的利息支出嗎？然後是一個詳細的問題，即我們是否增加我們的 RCF 容量，以便我們可以在以後將資金用於其他活動（如果我們願意的話），或者像我們過去多次做的那樣，將預付款集中在定期分期付款或分期償還上。因此，我們尚未最終做出決定，當我們公佈第一季收益時，可能會有更清晰的認識。

Omar Nokta, Jefferies.

傑富瑞的奧馬爾諾克塔 (Omar Nokta)。

Just had a follow-up on Frode's first question. You're talking about the VLCC rates basically jumping here over the past maybe four or five weeks to the $55,000 to $60,000 range as you outlined. You mentioned that a big reason for that has been sentiment and then also just the fact that there's more cargo ahead.

剛剛跟進了 Frode 的第一個問題。您說的是，超大型油輪 (VLCC) 的運價基本上在過去四五週內躍升至 55,000 美元至 60,000 美元的範圍內，正如您所概述的。您提到，造成這種情況的一個重要原因是情緒，其次也是因為未來還有更多的貨物。

What about in terms of just the actual sanctions themselves, part of it obviously sentiment, but have we seen an effect of that yet on rates as in we're seeing shifts removed from service and that's partially why rates are rising? Or is that not even yet taking place?

就實際制裁本身而言，部分原因顯然是情緒，但我們是否已經看到製裁對利率產生影響？或者這甚至還沒有發生？

I think you're right in saying that the primary driver at this early phase has been sentiments. But we are seeing, as I alluded to here, some change in behavior in China in how they procure oil, i.e., that means from whom or from which countries.

我認為你說得對，早期階段的主要驅動因素是情緒。但正如我在這裡提到的，我們看到中國在採購石油方面的行為發生了一些變化，也就是從誰或哪個國家採購石油。

And that also will relate to how it's going to be transported. So there were sanctions that you might have seen for the Shandong sort of refinery complexes, which meant that ports could not take in ships that were sanctioned. So that is a real thing.

這也與如何運輸有關。因此，你可能會看到山東煉油廠受到製裁，這意味著港口不能接收受到製裁的船隻。這是真實的事情。

Secondly, we understand that there are some tax issues with several of these refineries that means that they will either face bankruptcy or transfer ownership to maybe state-owned entities. And this is already changing or driving the way oil is being procured. So that's why I'm saying I think there is also increased oil demand now. And this is the early innings, I think, of what's at play here going forward.

其次，我們了解到其中一些煉油廠存在一些稅務問題，這意味著它們要么面臨破產，要么將所有權轉讓給國有實體。這已經改變或推動了石油採購的方式。所以我說我認為現在石油需求也在增加。我認為，這只是接下來事情發展的初期階段。

Okay. And then just a second question, just on slide 10 where you outlined the VLCC fleet and how it's developing. The shadow fleet, you have the 105 and then you have the 92 that are sanctioned. Any sense -- are you able to see what, say, the shadow fleet is trading, those 105 VLCCs, how they're trading in today's market and then also what the other 92 are doing?

好的。然後是第二個問題，在第 10 張幻燈片上，您概述了 VLCC 船隊及其發展。影子艦隊有 105 艘，還有 92 艘被制裁的。有什麼意義嗎——您是否能夠看到影子船隊的交易情況，例如那 105 艘 VLCC，它們在當今市場的交易情況，以及其他 92 艘船的交易情況？

It's hard because there's no AIS to track, right? So it has to be sort of physically seen or through satellite images. And you need to be live on this, and this is not the task for DHT to do in detail.

這很難，因為沒有 AIS 可以追踪，對嗎？所以它必須是實物可見的或透過衛星圖像可見的。而且你需要對此保持即時性，這不是DHT需要詳細完成的任務。

But I think for one, this fleet is very inefficient. So -- and with that, I don't think we should assume sort of a one-for-one change. If a sanctioned barrel and a sanctioned ship is shifting to a non-sanctioned barrel, there will going to be more efficiency out of that. Exact ratio is hard to be specific on. But the compliant fleet, obviously, is more efficient and more productive, if you like.

但我認為，首先，這支艦隊的效率非常低。所以 — — 有鑑於此，我認為我們不應該假設某種一對一的改變。如果將受制裁的桶子和受制裁的船隻轉移到非受制裁的桶，那麼效率就會更高。很難具體說明確切的比例。但如果你願意的話，合規的車隊顯然更有效率、更有生產力。

So -- but again, I just -- if you look at just the gradual shift now in sort of the gravity, and we've also seen reports of some of these ships now being sold for demolition early on. And we understand there are other discussions with brokers or breakers for some additional ships. So I think DHT stated earlier on that we looked at this shadow fleet as sort of the new scrapping in sort of -- in waiting until actual scrapping takes place, and that might be the case now.

所以 — — 但再說一次，我只是 — — 如果你看看現在重心的逐漸轉變，我們也看到有報道稱其中一些船隻早就被出售拆解了。我們也了解到，正在與經紀人或拆船商就增加一些船舶進行討論。所以我認為 DHT 之前曾表示，我們將這支影子艦隊視為一種新的報廢艦隊，等待實際的報廢，現在可能就是這種情況。

Okay. And maybe just sorry, one final one, just on -- just looking at the table, at the end of next year, you'll have 184 VLCCs in the fleet that are 25 years older. Do you -- can you envision those ships sticking around once they hit that age or they scrap?

好的。也許只是抱歉，最後一個問題，只是——看一下表格，到明年年底，您的船隊中將有 184 艘 VLCC，其船齡為 25 年。您能想像這些船舶達到一定年限後還會繼續存在或報廢嗎？

No, you have to have a trade where actually it's commercially possible to do it. And keep in mind, one thing, it's not just whether the customer using the ship can say, I'm okay with a 25-year-old ship. But you cannot nominate that ship to lift the cargo from, say, Saudi Arabia or from ports in West Africa or US or whatnot because the terminals will not accept most of these ships. And it's the same in most discharge ports where approval by the receiving facilities is also part of getting a deal done on a cargo.

不，你必須從事一項實際上具有商業可行性的交易。請記住一件事，這不僅僅是使用該船的客戶是否可以說「我可以接受一艘 25 年的船」。但你不能指定該船從沙烏地阿拉伯或西非或美國等港口起運貨物，因為碼頭不會接受大多數此類船隻。大多數卸貨港的情況都是一樣的，接收設施的批准也是完成貨物交易的一部分。

So all of this is just becoming very difficult. I have a very hard time to think that there are any commercial opportunities for these ships, maybe with a few exceptions, but the majority, I think, will be out of business.

所以這一切都變得非常困難。我很難想像這些船舶會有任何商業機會，也許除了少數例外，但我認為大多數船舶將會停止營業。

Petter Haugen, ABG Sundal Collier.

Petter Haugen，ABG Sundal Collier。

A quick question on prices. As we've spoken about on the rate side, it's been a lot of volatility. But in terms of the quoted prices for at least newer VLCC tonnage, nothing much has really changed over the past months. If you were to sell or buy, so what I guess I'm asking is the price of -- in the next transaction of a newer VLCC, so a resale VLCC, what would that transact at today, you think, if it were to happen?

關於價格的一個快速問題。正如我們在利率方面所討論的，波動性很大。但就至少是較新的 VLCC 噸位的報價而言，過去幾個月並沒有太大的變化。如果您要出售或購買，那麼我想我要問的是下一筆較新的 VLCC 的交易價格，即轉售 VLCC，您認為如果發生這種情況，今天的交易價格會是多少？

So when you say resale, that assumes that it's sort of prompt deliveries or delivery now. So that will have to be one of the five ships that are scheduled to be delivered this year. And some of those ships are already out on time charters. So I think the likelihood of getting hold of those as a resale is going to be difficult.

因此，當您說轉售時，就假設它是某種即時交貨或立即交貨。因此，這艘船將是今年計劃交付的五艘船之一。其中一些船舶已經按期租出。因此我認為取得這些轉售品的可能性將會很困難。

There are some opportunities for maybe '26 delivery to pick up a ship under construction from, I would say, shipyards in China that have not built VLCCs before. So then you need to be a buyer willing to venture out in such a transaction. And given the fact that those yards have no experience, it will be at a lower price than, say, if the ship have come from Korea or from an experienced yard in China.

也許在 26 年交付時，有機會從以前沒有建造過 VLCC 的中國造船廠接收正在建造的船舶。因此，您需要成為一個願意參與此類交易的買家。鑑於這些船廠沒有經驗，因此建造價格將比從韓國或中國經驗豐富的船廠建造的船舶更低。

So the liquidity in this game is very, very thin. If we wanted to buy a five-year-old ship, there may be potentially some things that can be done. But it's not like a full range of assets to pick up, right? So liquidity is thin. There is quite good liquidity on the buying side for ships that are sort of closing in 15 years that are 12, 13, 14 years, and there are a few buyers. And there's still some buyers sort of in the ships that are yet to be 20 but so have sort of a couple or three years left in them.

所以這場遊戲的流動性非常非常弱。如果我們想買一艘五年船齡的船，可能會有一些事情可以做。但它不像是可以收購全方位的資產，對嗎？因此流動性較弱。對於 15 年、12 年、13 年、14 年後關閉的船舶來說，購買方流動性相當好，並且有少數買家。還有一些買家購買了不到 20 艘的船隻，但這些船隻還可以使用一兩年或三年。

And I think that with all the sort of political stuff going on, there will be a need for some of the people that have been operating either on the fringes of this market or in it to renew themselves. So I think there will be continued sales of ships that are maybe a tad younger than some of the ships that are in that fleet. So ships that are built in '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, maybe also.

我認為，隨著各種政治事件的發生，一些一直在這個市場邊緣或內部運作的人需要自我更新。因此我認為，一些比該船隊中某些船舶稍微年輕一些的船舶將會繼續出售。因此，05、06、07、08、09 年建造的船舶也可能如此。

Okay. But if I were to pose a question like this, I have a five-year-old ship, which I'm asking or of which price is $114 million, would you then be a buyer or seller at $114 million, which is the price we would use for a five-year-old ship in valuation of VLCC companies these days?

好的。但是，如果我提出這樣的問題，我有一艘五年船齡的船，我想問的是它的價格為 1.14 億美元，您會以 1.14 億美元的價格買入還是賣出（這是我們目前對 VLCC 公司估值五年船齡的船時使用的價格）？

You really expect me to reply to that? Sorry, but I'm not going to comment on that.

你真的希望我回答這個問題嗎？抱歉，但我不會對此發表評論。

Okay. Okay. No, my intention was simply just to get a sort of feeling for whether these prices we now use is in the marketplace too high or too low. But we'll continue to use them. Svein, if I can follow up with sort of another narrow question here.

好的。好的。不，我的目的只是想了解我們現在使用的這些價格在市場上是太高還是太低。但我們會繼續使用它們。斯維恩，我可以在這裡繼續問另一個狹義的問題嗎？

In an event in which we'll see some deal being done, making Russian oil available again. Is it possible now to sort of -- and I understand that this is going to be speculation more than anything else, but for the VLCC market, I mean, the VLCC market didn't experience the same uplift when Russian oil was sanctioned. So I'm trying to figure out how the impact of Russian oil potentially then being not sanctioned again will make an impact on the VLCC market here? Do you have any --

在這種情況下，我們將看到一些交易的達成，使俄羅斯石油再次可供供應。現在有可能嗎？ 我明白，這將更多是一種猜測，但對於 VLCC 市場而言，我的意思是，當俄羅斯石油受到製裁時，VLCC 市場並沒有經歷同樣的增長。所以我想弄清楚俄羅斯石油可能不再受到製裁會對這裡的 VLCC 市場產生什麼影響？你有什麼--

I understand. So I understand your question. So I think the key sort of restrictions that drove this dislocation in earnings between Aframax and Suezmaxes and VLCCs over the last two, three years was that the primary loading areas of Russian oil in the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea cannot accommodate VLCCs.

我明白。所以我理解你的問題。所以我認為，過去兩三年來導致阿芙拉型油輪、蘇伊士型油輪和超大型油輪收益錯位的關鍵限制因素是，俄羅斯石油在波羅的海和黑海的主要裝貨區無法容納超大型油輪。

If those oceans have been able to accommodate VLCCs, I tell you the VLCCs would have gone to India and China with sanctioned oil. But that was not possible. So if Russian oil is, for some reason now going to be redirected back to Europe, that will be much shorter hauls for the ships that have been engaged in long hauls in the smaller sectors such as Aframax and Suezmaxes.

如果這些海洋能夠容納超大型油輪，我告訴你，超大型油輪將會帶著受制裁的石油前往印度和中國。但這是不可能的。因此，如果俄羅斯石油由於某種原因現在要重新運回歐洲，那麼對於那些在阿芙拉型油輪和蘇伊士型油輪等小型油輪上進行長途運輸的船舶來說，這將是一次更短的運輸。

And the oil currently going to Europe will then go out to Asia again, which will be used on the VLCCs. Hence, my comment that I think the VLCCs are the ones to stand out as the winners in what's going on now and how things will develop. So -- and it might be a little bit hit on the nose for some of the smaller ships.

目前運往歐洲的石油將再次運往亞洲，供超大型油輪使用。因此，我認為，無論從現在的情況還是未來的發展來看，VLCC 都將是脫穎而出的贏家。所以 —— 對於一些較小的船隻來說，這可能會受到一點打擊。

Greg Lewis, BTIG.

格雷格·劉易斯（Greg Lewis），BTIG。

I guess my first question is around the comments you made around maybe an increasing in demand in the time charter market. I guess earlier last month, there was a trader that came in and took a couple of vessels. I think it was for six, seven months maybe. Just as you see the time charter market developing, your view is a lot more insightful than ours. Could you maybe -- are there -- is it largely a traders coming into this market?

我想我的第一個問題是關於您所說的定期租船市場需求可能增加的評論。我想上個月初，有一位交易員進來拿走了幾艘船。我認為大概是六、七個月。正如您所看到的定期租船市場正在發展，您的觀點比我們更有見地。您是否可以—主要是交易商進入了這個市場？

Are there captives that are coming in? And is it hey, there's a new US administration and you know what, the next couple of quarters are going to be messy? Or is it kind of some of the fundamentals that you're laying out where, hey, supply looks tight for the next couple of years. And really, what I'm wondering is, are customers or potential charters starting to look to get a little bit longer?

有俘虜進來嗎？嘿，美國已經成立了新政府，你知道嗎，接下來的幾季將會一片混亂？或者您所說的一些基本因素是，未來幾年供應看起來會比較緊張。我真正想知道的是，客戶或潛在的租船者是否開始希望租期更長？

Yeah. I understand. So the traders, they are basically always in the market and a lot of their pricing is driven by how the forward curve is looking or what they can do in the FFA market because they typically sort of take off some of the exposure in the FFA market or take a profit and whatnot.

是的。我明白。因此，交易者基本上總是在市場中，他們的定價很大程度上是由遠期曲線的表現或他們在 FFA 市場中能做什麼決定的，因為他們通常會在 FFA 市場中減少一些風險敞口或獲取利潤等等。

But I think what's gradually developing is that a number of the end users, i.e., in oil companies or refiners, some of their time charter fleets are shrinking because time charters are expiring and they also have business that they need to sort of perform on. So they're becoming a bit light. Hence, there are a number of end users, if you could use that expression or IOCs that are in the market now and interested in building up the fleets or replacing ships that are expiring.

但我認為正在逐漸出現的是，許多最終用戶，即石油公司或煉油廠，他們的一些定期租船船隊正在縮減，因為定期租船合約即將到期，而且他們還有需要完成的業務。所以它們變得有點輕了。因此，現在市場上有一批最終用戶（如果你可以使用這個表達方式或國際石油公司的話）對建立船隊或更換即將到期的船舶感興趣。

So we always at DHT had a very serious customer focus and try to engage with all of our customers deeply, not just in the spot market. So I'm hopeful that there will be opportunities for us to develop some more fixed income for our fleet. Exactly how much we can do remains to be seen and depends on the money. But there is real demand here from end users.

因此，DHT 始終非常重視客戶，並嘗試與所有客戶進行深入交流，而不僅僅是在現貨市場。因此，我希望我們有機會為我們的船隊創造更多的固定收入。我們究竟能做多少還有待觀察，而且取決於資金。但最終用戶確實有需求。

Okay. Great. And then just my other question was, it seems to be a nonevent, but I guess, last month, the US put some Chinese shipyards under, I guess, like a blacklist or whatever, I think it was not sanctioned, but blacklisted. Does that create any impacts in terms of international trading companies' ability to use those yards for like dry dockings in special surveys? I would think it doesn't, but I just want to clarify that.

好的。偉大的。然後我的另一個問題是，這似乎是一件無關緊要的事情，但我想，上個月，美國將一些中國造船廠列入了黑名單或其他什麼的，我認為不是製裁，而是列入了黑名單。這是否會對國際貿易公司使用這些船廠進行特殊檢驗等乾船塢的能力產生影響？我認為並非如此，但我只是想澄清這一點。

Yes. I appreciate it if you think that I can clarify it, but I'm afraid I'm not sure I can give you a credible answer to that. But I'm not so sure it's an issue. So at least not based on the information that's available to me now. So I'm sorry, I can't help you any further on that.

是的。如果您認為我可以澄清這一點，我將不勝感激，但恐怕我不確定能否給您一個可信的答案。但我不太確定這是不是一個問題。因此，至少根據我現在掌握的資訊來看，情況並非如此。所以很抱歉，我無法就此事給您進一步的幫助。

That was helpful in and of itself.

這本身就很有幫助。

Thank you. There are no further questions. I will now hand back to the speakers for any closing comments. Thank you.

謝謝。沒有其它問題了。現在我將把發言者交還給各位發言者，請他們發表結束語。謝謝。

Okay. Thank you for all for dialing in to DHT's earnings call. Your interest and support is highly appreciated. Have a good day.

好的。感謝大家撥打 DHT 的收益電話會議。非常感謝您的關注與支持。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。