Douglas Emmett Inc (DEI) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to Douglas Emmett's quarterly conference call. Today's call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions).

女士們先生們，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎參加道格拉斯·埃米特的季度電話會議。今天的通話正在錄音。（操作員說明）。

I will now turn the conference over to Stuart McElhinney, Vice President of Investor Relations for Douglas Emmett. Please go ahead.

我現在將會議交給 Douglas Emmett 投資者關係副總裁 Stuart McElhinney。請繼續。

Thank you. Joining us today on the call are Jordan Kaplan, our President and CEO; Kevin Crummy, our CIO; and Peter Seymour, our CFO. This call is being webcast live from our website and will be available for replay during the next 90 days.

謝謝。今天加入我們電話會議的有我們的總裁兼執行長喬丹卡普蘭 (Jordan Kaplan)； Kevin Crummy，我們的資訊長；以及我們的財務長 Peter Seymour。本次電話會議正在我們的網站上進行網路直播，並將在接下來的 90 天內重播。

You can also find our earnings package at the Investor Relations section of our website. You can find reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures discussed during today's call, in the earnings package. During the course of this call, we will make forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs of, assumptions made by, and information currently available to us.

您也可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到我們的收益方案。您可以在收益方案中找到今天電話會議中討論的非公認會計準則財務指標的調節表。在本次電話會議期間，我們將做出前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述是基於我們的信念、假設和目前可獲得的資訊。

Our actual results will be affected by known and unknown risks, trends, uncertainties, and factors that are beyond our control or ability to predict. Although we believe that our assumptions are reasonable, they are not guarantees of future performance and some will prove to be incorrect.

我們的實際結果將受到已知和未知的風險、趨勢、不確定性以及我們無法控製或預測能力的因素的影響。儘管我們相信我們的假設是合理的，但它們並不能保證未來的業績，而且有些假設會被證明是不正確的。

Therefore, our actual future results can be expected to differ from our expectations and those differences may be material. For a more detailed description of some potential risks, please refer to our SEC filings, which can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website. When we reach the question-and-answer portion in consideration of others, please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up.

因此，我們未來的實際結果可能與我們的預期有所不同，而這些差異可能是重大的。有關一些潛在風險的更詳細描述，請參閱我們向 SEC 提交的文件，該文件可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。當我們考慮到其他人而進入問答部分時，請限制自己只提出一個問題和一個後續行動。

I will now turn the call over to Jordan.

我現在將把電話轉給喬丹。

Good morning and thank you for joining us. Many of our most important operating metrics are comparable to or even better than levels before the pandemic. Rental rates have held and continue to show strength. We are achieving significant lease transaction volume. Our retention rate continues to be high.

早安，感謝您加入我們。我們許多最重要的營運指標與大流行之前的水平相當甚至更好。租金率保持不變並繼續表現強勁。我們正在實現可觀的租賃交易量。我們的保留率仍然很高。

Our leasing concessions have remained minimal. Tenant defaults are back to our historic low. We continue to experience positive straight line rent rollup and our tenant improvements and leasing commissions per square foot remain below our 2016 to 2019 average.

我們的租賃優惠仍然很少。租戶違約率回到了歷史低點。我們繼續經歷積極的直線租金上漲，我們的租戶改善和每平方英尺的租賃佣金仍然低於 2016 年至 2019 年的平均水平。

Nevertheless, the most important metric at this time, new office leasing, was not sufficient to drive positive absorption. The shortfall again came largely from new leases over 10,000 square feet. My confidence in the long-term outperformance of our portfolio is validated by the continued strength and diversity of our tenant base and the severely restricted new office supply in our markets.

然而，目前最重要的指標——新辦公室租賃量——不足以推動積極的吸收。短缺再次主要來自超過 10,000 平方英尺的新租約。我對我們的投資組合長期表現出色的信心得到了我們租戶基礎的持續實力和多樣性以及我們市場上嚴格限制的新辦公大樓供應的證實。

We are seeing some signs of increased activity from larger tenants and I firmly believe that as they abandon their defensive posture, our portfolio will be among the strongest in the country.

我們看到一些大型租戶活動增加的跡象，我堅信，隨著他們放棄防禦姿態，我們的投資組合將成為全國最強大的投資組合之一。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Kevin.

這樣，我就把電話轉給凱文。

Thanks, Jordan, and good morning, everyone. Sales transaction volume remains depressed, although we are beginning to see some trades in multifamily properties. The sellers consist of core funds looking to raise liquidity and owners with floating rate financing. While cap rates have risen slightly, they remain at fairly low levels.

謝謝喬丹，大家早安。儘管我們開始看到多戶住宅的一些交易，但銷售交易量仍然低迷。賣方由尋求提高流動性的核心基金和採用浮動利率融資的所有者組成。雖然資本化率略有上升，但仍處於相當低的水平。

There have been fewer office purchases, mostly by owner users and high-net-worth individuals. The pricing for these trades has been quite high on a per square foot basis, reflecting the scarcity premium for quality West LA real estate.

辦公室購買量減少，主要由業主用戶和高淨值個人購買。這些交易的每平方英尺定價相當高，反映出西洛杉磯優質房地產的稀缺溢價。

With that, I will turn the call over to Stuart.

這樣，我就把電話轉給史都華。

Thanks, Kevin, good morning, everyone. During the second quarter, we signed 222 office leases covering 793,000 square feet including 205,000 square feet of new leases and 588,000 square feet of renewal leases.

謝謝，凱文，大家早安。第二季度，我們簽署了 222 份辦公室租約，面積為 793,000 平方英尺，其中新租約 205,000 平方英尺，續約租約 588,000 平方英尺。

The overall value of new leases we signed in the quarter increased by 1.1% with cash spreads down 12.4%. Of course, in any quarter, the specific leases rolling off and on can cause those numbers to vary substantially.

本季我們簽訂的新租賃總價值成長了 1.1%，現金利差下降了 12.4%。當然，在任何季度，特定租賃的滾動和延續都可能導致這些數字發生很大變化。

Our total leasing costs during the second quarter averaged $5.62 per square foot per year, below our pre-pandemic long-term average and well below the average for other office REITs. This success reflects several key advantages of our operating platform.

第二季我們的總租賃成本平均為每年每平方英尺 5.62 美元，低於疫情前的長期平均水平，也遠低於其他辦公房地產投資信託基金的平均水平。這一成功體現了我們營運平台的幾個關鍵優勢。

First, with our dominant market share and standardized buildouts, we have finished suites that can accommodate most tenant requirements, without expensive modifications. In other words, we often already have a suite that fits the tenant, compared to other landlords who must incur significant TI costs to accommodate new tenants.

首先，憑藉我們的主導市場份額和標準化擴建，我們已經完成了可以滿足大多數租戶需求的套房，而無需進行昂貴的修改。換句話說，我們通常已經擁有適合租戶的套房，而其他房東必須承擔大量 TI 成本才能容納新租戶。

Second, our upgraded customized website and search technology allows tenants to quickly find and virtually tour potential suites. Finally, by doing space planning, design and construction work ourselves, we control costs, design, standardize buildouts that are reusable, accelerate move-in times and improve tenant satisfaction. Our residential portfolio remains essentially fully leased at 99% and continues to generate healthy rent roll-ups.

其次，我們升級的定製網站和搜尋技術使租戶能夠快速找到並虛擬參觀潛在的套房。最後，透過我們自己進行空間規劃、設計和施工工作，我們控製成本、設計、標準化可重複使用的建築，加快入住時間並提高租戶滿意度。我們的住宅投資組合基本上保持 99% 的完全出租率，並繼續產生健康的租金上漲。

With that I'll turn the call over to Peter to discuss our results.

之後我會將電話轉給 Peter 討論我們的結果。

Thanks, Stuart. Good morning, everyone. Reviewing our results, compared to the second quarter of 2023, revenue decreased by 3% as higher parking and residential revenue was more than offset by vacancy at Barrington Plaza and lower office occupancy.

謝謝，斯圖爾特。大家早安。回顧我們的業績，與 2023 年第二季度相比，收入下降了 3%，因為停車和住宅收入的增加被巴林頓廣場的空置率和辦公室入住率的下降所抵消。

FFO decreased by 4.5% to $0.46 per share, primarily as a result of higher interest expense and lower revenues, partially offset by higher interest income and lower operating expenses. AFFO decreased slightly to $74.2 million and same property cash NOI was essentially flat with multifamily growth offset by lower office NOI. Our G&A remains very low relative to our benchmark group at only 4.7% of revenue.

FFO 下降 4.5% 至每股 0.46 美元，主要是由於利息支出增加和收入減少，但部分被利息收入增加和營運支出減少所抵消。AFFO 略有下降，至 7,420 萬美元，同一房產現金 NOI 基本持平，多戶型增長被辦公室 NOI 下降所抵消。與我們的基準集團相比，我們的一般行政費用仍然非常低，僅佔收入的 4.7%。

Turning to guidance. Our second quarter FFO benefited from anticipated property tax refunds and the timing of operating expenses. In determining our guidance for the rest of the year, we have not included similar benefits, but have factored in the usual seasonal increase in our utility costs in the third quarter, the move-out of Warner Bros and Burbank and higher interest expense.

轉向指導。我們第二季的 FFO 受益於預期的財產稅退款和營運費用的時間表。在確定今年剩餘時間的指導時，我們沒有包括類似的福利，但考慮了第三季度公用事業成本通常季節性增長、華納兄弟和伯班克的搬出以及更高的利息支出。

As a result, we are keeping the midpoint of our FFO guidance unchanged and narrowing the range to between $1.65 and $1.69 per share. For information on assumptions underlying our guidance, please refer to the schedule in the earnings package. As usual, our guidance does not assume the impact of future property acquisitions or dispositions, common stock sales or repurchases, financings, property damage, insurance recoveries, impairment charges, or other possible capital markets activities.

因此，我們維持 FFO 指引的中點不變，並將區間縮小至每股 1.65 美元至 1.69 美元之間。有關我們指導的假設的信息，請參閱收益計劃中的時間表。與往常一樣，我們的指導不假設未來財產收購或處置、普通股出售或回購、融資、財產損失、保險賠償、減損費用或其他可能的資本市場活動的影響。

I will now turn the call over to the operator so we can take your questions.

我現在將把電話轉給接線員，以便我們回答您的問題。

Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions) We will now pause for a moment to assemble our roster. And today's first question comes from Blaine Heck with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

謝謝。我們現在開始問答環節。（操作員指示）我們現在暫停一下以集合我們的名單。今天的第一個問題來自富國銀行的 Blaine Heck。請繼續。

Great, thanks. Jordan, I think in your prepared remarks, you mentioned rental rates that have held and continue to show strength. Can you just give a little bit more color on recent rental rate, trends you've seen, whether that comment is based on asking rents or net effective rents, and maybe which submarkets are showing the best resiliency or even growth?

太好了，謝謝。喬丹，我認為在您準備好的演講中，您提到了租金率一直保持並繼續表現強勁。您能否就最近的租金率、您所看到的趨勢提供更多信息，該評論是基於要價租金還是淨有效租金，以及哪些子市場表現出最佳的彈性甚至增長？

Yeah. So I'm saying rental rates have held for a couple of reasons. First of all, you know, there's the fact, and we report this to you guys, we've had a number of years and continue to have quarters of positive straight line roll up, which, considering the strength of the markets from the previous period '19 and earlier, that's, I think, pretty impressive.

是的。所以我想說租金率不變有幾個原因。首先，你知道，有一個事實，我們向你們報告這一點，我們已經有很多年了，並且繼續有幾季度的正直線上升，考慮到之前市場的實力我認為19 年及之前的時期非常令人印象深刻。

We're also seeing, but the only way to do it like year-to-year is to look at asking rates, which you get out of CoStar or one of those places. And we're seeing -- we're seeing that strength and we're seeing that strength not being offset by concessions, but actually existing in the net effectiveness of the deals. We're seeing that ourselves. So, as I said, we feel pretty good about where that rental rates haven't fallen off. We saw them, like, after the 2008 recession, we saw them really fall off. We have not experienced that this time.

我們也在觀察，但每年這樣做的唯一方法是查看要價，您可以從 CoStar 或這些地方之一獲得該價格。我們看到——我們看到了這種力量，我們看到這種力量並沒有被讓步所抵消，而是實際上存在於交易的淨效率中。我們自己也看到了這一點。因此，正如我所說，我們對租金率沒有下降的情況感到非常滿意。我們看到了它們，就像 2008 年經濟衰退之後，我們看到它們確實在下滑。這次我們還沒經歷過。

Great. And any specific submarkets that you'd call out as being a little bit better or worse positioned within your portfolio?

偉大的。您認為在您的投資組合中哪些特定的子市場處於更好或更差的位置？

Well, I mean, I have to say it that I spent so many years making excuses for Hawaii, and Hawaii is just like a colossally strong market now because we took some of the product out of the market. So it's very strong. But I think beyond that, I think most of the West side is. I don't think you would differentiate anything there, all the way around we're seeing that strength and, you know, Warner Center has a lot of good things happening, but it still has its issues with respect to vacancy, but that probably covers the whole gamut.

嗯，我的意思是，我必須說，我花了很多年的時間為夏威夷找藉口，而夏威夷現在就像一個巨大的強大市場，因為我們將一些產品撤出了市場。所以它非常強。但我認為除此之外，我認為西區的大部分地區都是如此。我不認為你會區分那裡的任何東西，我們一直看到這種力量，你知道，華納中心發生了很多好事，但它仍然存在與空置有關的問題，但這可能覆蓋整個色域。

All right. Great. And then just second question. Can you just talk a little bit more about your plans for upcoming debt maturities? Just looking past the swaps, you have a few upcoming maturities later this year and in early 2025.

好的。偉大的。然後是第二個問題。您能多談談您對即將到來的債務到期的計劃嗎？只要回顧掉期，您就會發現一些即將在今年稍後和 2025 年初到期的債券。

Can you just talk us through your plans for those? Will you be looking to pay those off at maturity with your cash balance or is it more likely you look to refinance? And if you're looking into refinancing, can you just talk about the overall financing environment and whether you think you'll need to pay down the loans with cash to reset LTVs or add other assets as collateral?

您能告訴我們您的這些計劃嗎？您會在到期時用現金餘額償還這些債務，還是更有可能尋求再融資？如果您正在考慮再融資，您能否談談整體融資環境以及您是否認為需要用現金償還貸款以重置貸款價值或添加其他資產作為抵押品？

So each, each loan has its own kind of thing that will be done. We do have a plan for all of the loans and I feel good about it and I'm confident we'll get it all done. There are some times when we'll do, there'll be some cash paydown. I don't think that's as significant.

因此，每筆貸款都有自己要做的事情。我們確實為所有貸款制定了計劃，我對此感覺良好，並相信我們會完成所有工作。有時我們會這樣做，會有一些現金回報。我認為這並不重要。

We have a lot of buildings that are unencumbered, so we can actually extend loans by adding collateral and making everybody happy, especially ones that are a few years out. I'm happy to repeat that. I feel confident about our debt, our portfolio. We're giving nothing back. We're all good on that. I mean, I don't like what, I mean, no one could like where rates are, although they're coming back our way a little bit. So that's also probably a piece of good news.

我們有很多未受阻礙的建築物，因此我們實際上可以透過增加抵押品來發放貸款，讓每個人都滿意，尤其是那些幾年後的建築物。我很高興重複一遍。我對我們的債務、我們的投資組合充滿信心。我們不會給予任何回報。我們都很擅長這一點。我的意思是，我不喜歡什麼，我的意思是，沒有人會喜歡利率的水平，儘管它們正在一點點回歸我們的軌道。所以這也可能是個好消息。

Great. Thanks, Jordan.

偉大的。謝謝，喬丹。

Alrighty.

好吧。

Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler.

亞歷山大·戈德法布和派珀·桑德勒。

Hey, morning out there. Two questions. First, Jordan, on the national tenants, when you say they're still hesitant. Is that, like, they wake up last Friday, look at the jobs print and go, we're not leasing space? Or is it really the way those outposts are doing in your market? Those national tenants, don't have the business that warrants them to be doing the leasing.

嘿，早安。兩個問題。首先，喬丹，關於國家租戶，當你說他們仍然猶豫不決時。是不是，就像他們上週五醒來，看看列印出來的工作就走了，我們不租空間了？或者這些前哨基地在您的市場中確實是這樣做的嗎？這些國內租戶沒有保證他們進行租賃的業務。

I'm just trying to separate because clearly, the local tenants are doing deals and leasing. I'm trying to figure out is it the national tenants just aren't doing their business in your markets isn't healthy or it's someone at corporate that's getting scared because of a bad jobs print or something like that?

我只是想分開，因為顯然，當地租戶正在進行交易和租賃。我想弄清楚是否是全國租戶在你們的市場上不做生意不健康，還是公司裡的某個人因為糟糕的工作打印或類似的東西而感到害怕？

Well, that's a very refined question, and I don't know a lot of these guys. I don't want to overstate that larger tenants have just sort of dropped out completely. Stuart has some information about it. Maybe I should turn the call over to Stuart. But I'm feeling better now.

嗯，這是一個非常精緻的問題，而且我對這些人認識不多。我不想誇大說，較大的租戶已經完全退出了。斯圖爾特有一些相關資訊。也許我應該把電話轉給史都華。但我現在感覺好多了。

So I'm feeling better about leasing the pipeline and starting to see more, we are starting to see more activity from larger tenants. So I don't want to paint it as though we're still in the doldrums of a year ago or whenever it was at its worst. We're actually probably feeling a little better now. But Stuart, do you want to add something to that?

因此，我對租賃管道感覺更好，並開始看到更多，我們開始看到更大租戶的更多活動。所以我不想把它描繪成我們仍處於一年前的低迷狀態或最糟糕的時期。事實上我們現在可能感覺好一點了。但是斯圖爾特，你想添加一些東西嗎？

Yeah, sure. So we made, I think, a point of telling you last quarter that we only had signed one new lease over10,000 square feet in the first quarter. That was well below trend of what we typically do. So we saw improvement in that this quarter.

是的，當然。因此，我認為，上個季度我們特意告訴大家，我們在第一季只簽署了一份超過 10,000 平方英尺的新租約。這遠低於我們通常所做的趨勢。因此，我們在本季看到了這方面的改善。

We did three deals over 10,000 square feet in the second quarter. So feeling better to see some momentum there. It's still not back to levels, you know, pre-pandemic average levels. So we like to see that strengthen more. But I'd echo Jordan's comments that we are starting to feel a little bit more optimistic with that segment.

第二季我們完成了三筆超過 10,000 平方英尺的交易。所以看到那裡有一些動力感覺好多了。你知道，它仍然沒有回到大流行前的平均水平。所以我們希望看到這一點進一步加強。但我同意喬丹的評論，即我們開始對該部分感到更加樂觀。

Okay. And then maybe just as a follow-up there, Stuart, you know, given that small tenants are active, is there something that impedes your ability to break up those over 10,000 square feet spaces into smaller pre-built suites and lease them or it's literally you've maxed out all the demand in the smaller tenants and therefore you're 100% leased, you know, effectively on the small tenants. And really the only place where you're literally going to get incremental demand is from those larger tenants. I'm just trying to figure out how much you can feather the problem between the two?

好的。然後，也許只是作為後續行動，斯圖爾特，你知道，考慮到小租戶很活躍，是否有什麼因素阻礙你將這些超過 10,000 平方英尺的空間分解成較小的預製套房並出租它們的能力，或者它是從字面上看，您已經滿足了小租戶的所有需求，因此您可以100% 出租，您知道，這對小租戶來說是有效的。實際上，唯一能真正獲得增量需求的地方是來自那些較大的租戶。我只是想弄清楚你能在多大程度上解決兩者之間的問題？

Yeah, no, I understand. I think that, no, we still would look to take larger spaces and break them up. That's still an option in our portfolio. By no means have we maxed out our ability to break up larger space in a smaller. In fact, what we've been vocal about doing that at Studio Plaza, as we're looking to release the Warner Brothers Discovery space.

是的，不，我明白。我認為，不，我們仍然會尋求更大的空間並將它們分解。這仍然是我們投資組合中的一個選擇。我們還沒有發揮出將更大的空間分解成更小的空間的能力。事實上，我們一直在工作室廣場大聲疾呼這樣做，因為我們正在尋求釋放華納兄弟探索空間。

We'll break that up into smaller spaces. It's a floor-by-floor and kind of building-by-billing decision. If we have good product, that's smaller spec suite product available at the moment, then we don't need to take larger space and break it up.

我們將把它分成更小的空間。這是一個逐層樓和逐個建築物的計費決策。如果我們有好的產品，即目前可用的較小規格套件產品，那麼我們不需要佔用更大的空間並將其分解。

So we've got a lot of leasing to do across the portfolio. We're very focused on it, large leasing, small leasing. We could get improvement out of all those categories. We could see more, we could see better smaller leasing, although it's still remaining very active, that could improve.

因此，我們在整個投資組合中需要進行大量的租賃工作。我們非常專注，大租賃，小租賃。我們可以從所有這些類別中得到改進。我們可以看到更多，我們可以看到更好的小型租賃，儘管它仍然非常活躍，但可以改善。

So we could get improvement across the board. We're focused on small, large, medium tenants. We can break space up, build more spec suites. We've been very aggressive about doing that and it remains very successful for us.

這樣我們就可以全面改進。我們專注於小型、大型、中型租戶。我們可以打破空間，建造更多規格套件。我們一直非常積極地這樣做，而且對我們來說仍然非常成功。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

And our next question today comes from Michael Griffin with Citi. Please go ahead.

今天我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的邁克爾·格里芬。請繼續。

Great. Thanks. I want to go back just to comments on the leasing environment. And I realize kind of quarterly numbers can be choppy there. But, you know, how many of these larger tenant deals do you think you need to be doing in order to get that negative net absorption to turn positive? And kind of when can we expect that inflection point for net absorption?

偉大的。謝謝。我想回到對租賃環境的評論。我意識到季度數據可能會出現波動。但是，您知道，您認為需要進行多少次較大的租戶交易才能使負淨吸收量轉為正值？我們什麼時候可以預期淨吸收的拐點？

Hey, Michael, you know, if we look back over a longer-term average, we used to do five or six, you know, five or six deals, maybe over 10,000 feet and maybe kind of in a 90,000-foot average range per quarter. We've been below that. You know, we talked about how we've been below that.

Hey, Michael, you know, if we look back over a longer-term average, we used to do five or six, you know, five or six deals, maybe over 10,000 feet and maybe kind of in a 90,000-foot average range per四分之一.我們一直低於這個水平。你知道，我們討論過我們是如何低於這個水平的。

So we could see that improvement. As to when, I have no idea. I hope it's soon. Jordan and I just told you we're feeling a little bit better about what's going on with the larger guys, there's some dialogue and some activity. So that's optimistic, but I can't tell you exactly when we'll see that switch.

所以我們可以看到這種改進。至於什麼時候，我不知道。我希望很快。喬丹和我剛剛告訴過你，我們對大個子的情況感覺好一點了，有一些對話和一些活動。所以這是樂觀的，但我無法確切地告訴你我們什麼時候會看到這種轉變。

Got you. Appreciate that, Stuart. And then just turning kind of to the transaction market, I think you mentioned distressed opportunities and maybe more coming to the market on the multifamily side relative to office. But as you sit out there today, are there any office properties that kind of meet that category of sort of your bread-and-butter type properties that you could see, maybe these high-quality buildings come in at distress pricing? And if so, would you prefer to execute more on the office side or could we see it more on the multifamily?

明白你了。很欣賞這一點，史都華。然後轉向交易市場，我認為您提到了困境中的機會，也許更多的機會出現在多戶住宅方面（相對於辦公室）。但是，當您今天坐在那裡時，是否有任何辦公大樓物業符合您所看到的那種類型的麵包和黃油類型的物業，也許這些高品質的建築以低價出售？如果是這樣，您是否願意在辦公室方面執行更多操作，還是我們可以在多戶住宅中看到更多操作？

So this is Kevin. The multifamily is still trading at, you know, it's not trading at the extremely low cap rates that it was, but it's still very, very low cap rates and fully priced. So there's going to be a better discount on the office side. But the office side has just taken a little longer to work its way through the system. And so I mentioned that there have been a couple of user trades, a couple of little buildings of high net worth, but the multi-tenant class A office on the West side, we haven't seen as much. Although, you know, I'm thinking that if there are going to be opportunities, there'll be second half of this year or early part of next year. So we're definitely watching it.

這就是凱文。多戶住宅的交易價格仍然是，你知道，它的資本化率並不像以前那樣極低，但它的資本化率仍然非常非常低，並且完全定價。因此，辦公室方面將會有更好的折扣。但辦公室方面只是花了更長的時間來完成該系統的工作。所以我提到有一些用戶交易，一些高淨值的小建築，但是西側的多租戶甲級辦公大樓，我們還沒有看到那麼多。不過，你知道，我在想，如果有機會的話，應該是今年下半年或明年初。所以我們肯定會關注它。

Great. That's it for me. Thanks for the time.

偉大的。對我來說就是這樣。謝謝你的時間。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Steve Sakwa with Evercore ISI.

Steve Sakwa 與 Evercore ISI。

Yeah, thanks. Good morning. Jordan, just to kind of follow up on the leasing, you know, what industries, is it tech, is it media, is it kind of everything? Like where do you need to see the biggest, I guess, improvement in order to, you feel get a kind of a bigger upturn in the leasing activity overall?

是的，謝謝。早安.喬丹，只是為了跟進租賃，你知道，哪些行業，是科技，是媒體，是所有行業嗎？我想，您需要在哪裡看到最大的改進，以便您覺得整體租賃活動有更大的改善？

You know, it's probably not tech and media, as you know, we don't have big concentration of them, so we've never kind of leaned back on them. But the other industries, the service industries, the other kind of general office and accounting, all of those guys, you know, that's stuff we're feeling better about. I have to say, even I feel that it's coming back. So if I was to take a guess about this, I would say that we have a good chance. It's horrible to make this prediction. I don't want to do it with you, Steve, because you're going to remember it. But I think once we get past Studio Plaza, we are going to see, we have a very good shot at heading back in more of an upward direction. And that's because of what we're seeing in terms of pipeline and activity.

你知道，這可能不是科技和媒體，正如你所知，我們對它們沒有很大的關注，所以我們從來沒有依賴過它們。但是其他行業，服務業，其他類型的一般辦公室和會計，所有這些人，你知道，這些都是我們感覺更好的東西。不得不說，連我自己都覺得它又回來了。因此，如果我對此進行猜測，我會說我們有很好的機會。做出這樣的預測是很可怕的。我不想和你一起做，史蒂夫，因為你會記得它。但我認為，一旦我們經過 Studio Plaza，我們就會看到，我們很有可能會朝著更高的方向返回。這是因為我們在管道和活動方面看到的情況。

Just to do a quick follow-up, Jordan. I know big media and tech are not necessarily your tenants, but other companies and other smaller businesses feed off of those. So to the extent that streaming wars, you're laying off people in other businesses. I guess I'm trying to think about the feeder effect of tech and media being down as having like a derivative impact on your customer base. And if they don't come back, can your tenants come back?

只是為了快速跟進，喬丹。我知道大媒體和科技不一定是你的租戶，但其他公司和其他小型企業也依賴這些。因此，就串流媒體戰爭而言，你正在解僱其他行業的人員。我想我正在嘗試考慮科技和媒體的供給效應下降對您的客戶群產生的衍生影響。如果他們不回來，你的房客能回來嗎？

Well, I'm not sure that. So the direct derivative impact was a very large lease that we had that already renewed and went 10 more years, which is agency, right? The kind of secondary tertiary impacts, which is the accountants, the lawyers, they still seem to be going full tilt. I'm just going to tell you, even though,

嗯，我不確定。因此，直接的衍生影響是我們已經續簽的非常大的租約，並且已經續簽了 10 年，這就是代理，對嗎？那種二次三次影響，即會計師、律師，他們似乎仍在全力以赴。我只是想告訴你，儘管如此，

I know many of their clients are entertainers and this, that and directors and producers and all of those people. So they for us still seem to be moving along at a good clip. We're not the creative side, I would say, the sound stages, the studios, that activity doesn't need to be moving in any kind of meaningful way for the people that we're dealing with that are, whether they're working on deals good, bad or indifferent, to be very active, and that is happening.

我知道他們的許多客戶都是藝人，還有導演、製片人和所有這些人。所以對我們來說，他們似乎仍然在快速前進。我想說，我們不是創意方面，攝影棚、工作室，這些活動不需要以任何有意義的方式進行，對於我們正在處理的人來說，無論他們是努力處理好的、壞的或無關緊要的事情，要非常積極，而這種情況正在發生。

Okay, thanks. Peter, just as a follow-up, I know the last two quarters, you guys have had these tax refunds, that have benefited your property, operating expenses in the office. So we're just trying to really figure out, what is kind of run ratable and would continue and how much of these are truly just one-time payments that don't really lower the overall basis, because it feels like you guys have benefited. I'm trying to figure out if that's just a function of COVID problems that have allowed you guys to reduce the property values and it's a more of a permanent savings. And how much of that savings was really one-time in nature?

好的，謝謝。彼得，作為後續行動，我知道過去兩個季度，你們已經獲得了這些退稅，這使您的財產和辦公室的營運費用受益。因此，我們只是想真正弄清楚，什麼是可評級的，並將繼續進行，其中有多少真正只是一次性付款，不會真正降低整體基礎，因為感覺你們已經受益了。我想弄清楚這是否只是新冠病毒問題的一個結果，導致你們的房產價值降低，而這更像是一種永久性的儲蓄。其中有多少節省實際上是一次性的？

Yes, Steve. Yes, it's Peter. So the tax refunds are generally, they're a long-life cycle. These are things that we appealed and started the appeal process years ago. And you don't know for some time when they're going to resolve. And we had some of them resolve in the first quarter and the second quarter. It's, you know, we are expecting a bit more, but it's a multi-year process and we have incorporated what we know into our guidance.

是的，史蒂夫。是的，是彼得。所以退稅一般來說是一個很長的生命週期。這些是我們幾年前提出上訴並開始上訴程序的事情。而且你有一段時間不知道什麼時候會解決。我們在第一季和第二季解決了其中一些問題。你知道，我們的期望更高，但這是一個多年的過程，我們已將我們所知道的納入我們的指導中。

I'm sorry, Peter. So there are more pending. You just don't know when, so they're not in guidance?

對不起，彼得。所以還有更多懸而未決的事情。你只是不知道什麼時候，所以他們沒有指導？

Well, what -- when we know, we've incorporated in our guidance. And, you know, and we always, every time we buy a building, there's an appeal. There's, you know, there's a lot of these in process over, you know, over a period of years.

好吧，當我們知道時，我們已經將其納入我們的指導中。而且，你知道，我們每次購買建築物時總是會產生吸引力。你知道，在過去的幾年裡，有很多這樣的事情正在進行中。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Steve.

史蒂夫.

John Kim at BMO Capital Markets.

BMO 資本市場部的約翰金 (John Kim)。

Thank you. Jordan, I know we're harping on this a little bit, but we're still interested in your commentary of large tenants coming back or feeling better about national tenants in the market. Is there any way to quantify, what that has been as far as tour activity or what percentage of releasing pipeline that is and what submarkets that may benefit from that?

謝謝。喬丹，我知道我們在這個問題上喋喋不休，但我們仍然對您對大型租戶回歸或對市場上的全國租戶感覺更好的評論感興趣。有什麼方法可以量化旅遊活動的情況或釋放管道的百分比以及哪些子市場可以從中受益？

There is but I'm not anxious to do it. But I can tell you that the reason I feel that way is as a result of our activity with larger tenants. So when you look at, like, who we're talking to as we're approaching deals, what kind of deals we're working on, I go, there's some good big guys coming back.

有，但我並不急於這樣做。但我可以告訴你，我有這種感覺的原因是我們與較大租戶的活動的結果。因此，當你看看我們在接近交易時正在與誰交談，我們正在進行什麼樣的交易時，我想，有一些優秀的大人物回來了。

And that's expansions in your market or just moving around from downtown to West LA.

這就是您的市場擴張，或者只是從市中心搬到西洛杉磯。

I'm not sure that I would call it moving around. I mean, I'd have to look into each one and see where you're asking where those tenants are coming from. One that's noteworthy for me is an expansion, one that I'm familiar with.

我不確定我是否會稱之為移動。我的意思是，我必須調查每一個，看看你在問這些租戶來自哪裡。對我來說值得注意的是一個我熟悉的擴充。

Okay. On your credit facility a few quarters ago, you let it expire. Now, with rates coming down and stabilizing, are there any signs that the fees have come back so that it would be attractive for you to secure another one?

好的。幾個季度前，您的信貸安排就到期了。現在，隨著利率下降並趨於穩定，是否有任何跡象表明費用已經回升，因此對您來說獲得另一筆費用會很有吸引力？

I have not seen that. I mean, we can, we allowed ourselves to build up a lot of cash. As you know, we let that expire. We cut the dividend and we allowed the cash to build up, which you guys have seen. We did one loan that brought a lot of cash into on one of the -- on couple of apartments. I think that trade, that cost of us carrying more cash in an environment today where there's still -- rates are still pretty good is substantially better than what I would have to pay to create availability through a credit line. So even if rates come down, they'd have to come down, even more and costs come down. I mean, there still would be a ways to go.

我還沒看到。我的意思是，我們可以，我們讓自己累積了大量現金。如您所知，我們讓它過期。我們削減了股息，並允許現金增加，你們都看到了。我們辦理了一筆貸款，為其中一套公寓帶來了大量現金。我認為，在當今利率仍然相當不錯的環境下，我們攜帶更多現金的成本遠遠好於我透過信貸額度創造可用性所需支付的費用。因此，即使利率下降，也必須下降，甚至更多，成本也會下降。我的意思是，還有很長的路要走。

Okay. So it's lower on your checklist as far as desire to get another one. Thank you.

好的。因此，就購買另一件的願望而言，它在您清單上的位置較低。謝謝。

Well if the costs were good, I would, but I just don't -- I don't even think they're close right now.

好吧，如果成本合適，我會的，但我只是不這樣做——我什至認為現在還沒有接近。

Right. Thanks a lot.

正確的。多謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Upal Rana with KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Upal Rana 與 KeyBanc 資本市場。

Great. Thanks for taking my question. Just maybe regarding Barrington Plaza here, you know, have expectations shifted following the tentative ruling from this past June?

偉大的。感謝您提出我的問題。也許關於這裡的巴靈頓廣場，你知道，在今年六月的暫定裁決之後，期望是否改變了？

No, I mean, there's a variety of ways we use that way. There's a variety of ways. We always do, we feel well to get there, you know, get in a position to do the work. The building is about 90% vacant right now, so, you know, by one way or another I'd always assume there would be some tenants, so we'll have to like figure out how finish off with.

不，我的意思是，我們有多種使用這種方式的方法。有很多種方法。我們總是這樣做，我們感覺很高興到達那裡，你知道，能夠完成工作。這棟建築現在大約有 90% 空置，所以，你知道，無論如何，我總是假設會有一些租戶，所以我們必須弄清楚如何結束。

Okay. Are they all sort of in one building or is that something you can move into one building, so you can start on the other parts of the project or how does that work?

好的。它們是都在一棟大樓裡嗎？

Well, there's some city programs that depending on which what we use, that would leave us in some are better or worse. We'll start with the ones that are better that and the position impairment, but I don't think it's very material in any case to our numbers because there's so few people left.

嗯，有些城市計畫取決於我們使用的內容，這會讓我們的情況變得更好或更糟。我們將從更好的人和位置損害開始，但我認為無論如何這對我們的數字來說都不是很重要，因為剩下的人太少了。

Okay, thank you. And then my second question was just on when you said rent roll-up in your prepared remarks, is that because a relatively larger percentage of your portfolio has already rolled since COVID and do you think that rent roll-up can continue over the near medium-term or even the longer-term?

好的，謝謝。然後我的第二個問題是，當您在準備好的發言中提到租金上漲時，是因為自新冠疫情以來，您的投資組合中相對較大比例的租金已經上漲，您認為租金上漲會在近中期繼續下去嗎？

Well, I don't know about future predictions about where rental rates are going, but if you look at the more what my commentary was revolving around is we've held rate and actually to some degree rates improved.

好吧，我不知道未來租金率的預測，但如果你仔細看看我的評論，我們會保持利率不變，而且實際上在某種程度上利率有所提高。

And so I know we were looking back at our rent roll-up stats for the last four years average without putting weight to four years ago, I mean, including recent numbers and we're averaging over 7%. I mean, if you would have told me COVID, recession doldrums and we were going to average over 7%, I would have said, wow, that's a good time. And that's the basis, a lot of the basis for why I say I feel like rates have held in our markets.

所以我知道我們正在回顧過去四年的平均租金匯總統計數據，而沒有考慮四年前的情況，我的意思是，包括最近的數據，我們的平均值超過 7%。我的意思是，如果你告訴我新冠疫情、經濟衰退低迷，而我們的平均成長率將超過 7%，我會說，哇，這是一個好時機。這就是我為什麼說我覺得我們的市場利率保持不變的基礎。

Great. Thank you. That was helpful.

偉大的。謝謝。這很有幫助。

Peter Abramowitz with Jefferies.

彼得·阿布拉莫維茨和傑弗里斯。

Thanks. Yes, I just wanted to go back to the comments that you're feeling better about national tenants. Could you elaborate and possibly quantify what this means in terms of your leasing pipeline, overall leasing activity, your tour activity? Any comments to quantify or elaborate again would be helpful.

謝謝。是的，我只是想回到你對國家租戶感覺更好的評論。您能否詳細說明並可能量化這對您的租賃管道、整體租賃活動、旅遊活動意味著什麼？任何再次量化或詳細闡述的評論都會有所幫助。

The short answer is no, not really. But you mean I felt like it was, I don't want to overdo it, under do it. I just want to get it right. And what I'm telling you guys is we're seeing a larger tenants, start working their way back. And I'm very pleased to see some in the pipeline. And we need, let's get those deals made and then we'll come back and then we'll really be able to talk about them. I'm not ready now. And it's still going to be a battle to get back and lease up the properties. And that's still in front of us. So I don't want to overstate it. I'm just saying I'm feeling more positive.

簡短的回答是否定的，不是真的。但你的意思是我覺得，我不想做得太過分，做得不夠。我只是想把事情做好。我要告訴你們的是，我們看到越來越多的租戶開始回歸。我很高興看到一些正在醞釀。我們需要，讓我們達成這些交易，然後我們回來，然後我們才能真正討論它們。我現在還沒準備好。收回並出租這些房產仍將是一場戰鬥。這仍然擺在我們面前。所以我不想誇大它。我只是說我感覺更積極了。

Okay, that's helpful. That's all for me. Thanks.

好的，這很有幫助。這就是我的全部。謝謝。

Camille Bonnel with Bank of America.

美國銀行的卡米爾·博內爾。

Hi, there. I wanted to follow up on an earlier question. Can you quantify the impact of tax refunds that contributed to the second quarter. I assume the outcome came in line with your expectations given you didn't adjust guidance or was it more favorable with offsets elsewhere?

你好呀。我想跟進之前的問題。您能否量化退稅對第二季的影響？我認為，鑑於您沒有調整指導，結果符合您的預期，還是在其他地方進行抵消後結果更有利？

No, it was, it's Peter. It was in line with what we expected for the year. And when we take those refunds, they're, you know, they're reflected in office expenses. You can see the big reduction in office expenses versus prior year, and most of that is from the tax refunds.

不，是的，是彼得。這符合我們今年的預期。當我們收到這些退款時，它們會反映在辦公室費用中。你可以看到辦公室費用比去年大幅減少，其中大部分來自退稅。

And can you quantify what that was?

你能量化那是什麼嗎？

You can go through with Peter later, but you can quantify it. You can look at the expense change.

你可以稍後再和 Peter 一起討論，但你可以量化它。您可以查看費用變化。

Okay. And then just shifting. I noticed your signed lease not commenced gap to occupancy has been trending lower the past three quarters. So was wondering if you can provide any guidepost on how much of these leases are commencing in the rest of this year versus 2025. Thanks.

好的。然後只是轉移。我注意到您已簽署的未開始租約與入住率的差距在過去三個季度一直呈下降趨勢。因此，我想知道您是否可以提供任何指導，說明與 2025 年相比，有多少租賃將在今年剩餘時間開始。謝謝。

Yeah. Generally, our leases commence for the most part over the next three quarters after they've been signed. That's generally the majority of the leases. We were getting a lot of attention when that spread gapped out. A few years ago, we had a pretty widespread, which actually we like, means we're doing a lot of leasing. I think long-term average for that spread is 180 basis points, 170 basis points, something like that.

是的。一般來說，我們的租約大部分在簽署後的未來三個季度內開始。這通常是大部分租賃。當價差出現缺口時，我們引起了很多關注。幾年前，我們的業務相當廣泛，這實際上是我們喜歡的，這意味著我們正在進行大量的租賃。我認為該利差的長期平均值是 180 個基點、170 個基點等等。

So the more leasing we can do, the wider that spread usually gets. We like that. So we'd like to see that improve in that upward direction. But generally, our leases are commencing very quickly with our smaller tenants. We get them in that quarter over the next couple of quarters.

因此，我們能做的租賃越多，價差通常就越大。我們喜歡這樣。所以我們希望看到這種情況在向上的方向上有所改善。但總的來說，我們與較小租戶的租約很快就開始了。我們將在接下來的幾個季度中在該季度獲得它們。

Thank you. And our next question today comes from Richard Anderson at Wedbush. Please go ahead.

謝謝。今天我們的下一個問題來自韋德布希的理查德安德森。請繼續。

Thanks. So is there another Bishop Place in your future? Do you see in your portfolio anywhere, given the success you've had there or is it tough to find an asset that would accommodate a conversion like that?

謝謝。那麼您未來還會有另一個 Bishop Place 嗎？考慮到您在投資組合中取得的成功，您是否在任何地方都看到過，或者是否很難找到能夠適應此類轉換的資產？

I don't -- it's not. We actually have a lot of assets that physically can accommodate the conversion. But financially to have the conversion make sense, you need a meaningful spread between a very meaningful spread between office rents and residential rents.

我不——事實並非如此。我們實際上有很多資產可以實際適應轉換。但從財務上來說，為了讓這種轉換有意義，你需要在辦公室租金和住宅租金之間有一個非常有意義的價差。

And if it's not very meaningful, since our buildings are all in markets that where you can lease up your buildings and we're confident to get there, that we don't, we aren't seeing that spread. So in Hawaii, office rents were low and had been persistently low as a result of the higher kind of stabilized vacancy of about 85%. But we saw that apartment rents were very strong, which even in the exact same market.

如果這不是很有意義，因為我們的建築物都在市場上，您可以在那裡出租建築物，並且我們有信心到達那裡，但我們沒有，我們沒有看到這種蔓延。因此，在夏威夷，辦公室租金很低，而且由於空置率穩定在 85% 左右，因此一直保持在較低水平。但我們看到公寓租金非常強勁，即使在同一市場也是如此。

So when we calculated and added in the cost of doing the conversion, considering the strength of the apartment rents and also the kind of reverb that would happen to the rest of our portfolio, we knew that one would make sense.

因此，當我們計算並添加轉換成本時，考慮到公寓租金的強度以及我們投資組合其他部分可能發生的影響，我們知道這是有道理的。

And in fact, it more than made sense. It was extremely successful. That's not as easy to achieve in a larger market where, like this one, where if you take a building out of the portfolio, it substantially changes. If you take a building out of the office stock, it substantially changes the amount of office that's available to be leased.

事實上，這非常有道理。這是非常成功的。在更大的市場中實現這一點並不容易，就像這個市場一樣，如果你從投資組合中剔除一棟建築，它就會發生巨大的變化。如果您從辦公大樓庫存中剔除一棟建築物，則會大幅改變可出租的辦公室數量。

So you don't have that, you know, tailwind as part of the process. You have to just do it straight, as a result of, like, this was an office building, now it's an apartment building. So you got to really rely on that rent spread. And, you know, I don't know that there's anything that we have at this time that's there.

所以你知道，作為這個過程的一部分，你沒有順風車。你必須直接做，因為，就像，這是一棟辦公大樓，現在是一棟公寓大樓。所以你必須真正依賴租金差價。而且，你知道，我不知道我們現在有什麼東西在那裡。

Okay. And then the second question is, you mentioned, and we all know, you know, you don't have a whole lot of media exposure. I'm wondering why that's the case. Was that an intentional move on your part or was it kind of lucky? Again, I don't mean to be throwing Hudson Pacific under the bus, because I think that they'll ultimately do fine there, but is there something about that industry, that you intentionally sort of veered away from?

好的。然後第二個問題是，你提到的，我們都知道，你知道，你沒有大量的媒體曝光。我想知道為什麼會這樣。這是你故意的舉動還是運氣好？再說一次，我並不是故意要貶低哈德遜太平洋公司，因為我認為他們最終會在那裡做得很好，但是這個行業有什麼東西是你故意迴避的嗎？

No, I think it's more our strategy that we don't like relying on large tenants. We don't like single tenant buildings, and both media and tech tend to be larger tenants. And so we've always, you know, we don't -- we just don't win a lot of bids on buildings, even if it's credit. We're more comfortable with small tenant credit.

不，我認為這更多是我們的策略，我們不喜歡依賴大租戶。我們不喜歡單一租戶的建築，而媒體和科技往往都是較大的租戶。所以我們一直，你知道，我們沒有——我們只是沒有贏得很多建築物的投標，即使這是信用。我們對小額租戶信貸更加滿意。

Our small tenant credit profile has been outstanding historically and through this period of time. And so we're just built for smaller tenants, which means we don't have buildings, we're not leasing to, we're not focused on a lot of the larger tech and entertainment guys, that are looking for big blocks of space.

我們的小型租戶信用狀況在歷史上和這段時間內一直表現出色。因此，我們只是為較小的租戶建造的，這意味著我們沒有建築物，我們不會租賃，我們不會專注於許多大型科技和娛樂公司，他們正在尋找大塊的空間。

Not that we probably -- we have that big block coming up in Warner Center, we'd be happy, I mean, not in Warner Center, but in Burbank, but they moved out. So that's the reason we don't have exposure to them. We don't have the types of buildings that they would probably find appealing.

並不是說我們可能——我們在華納中心有那個大街區，我們會很高興，我的意思是，不是在華納中心，而是在伯班克，但他們搬走了。這就是我們沒有接觸它們的原因。我們沒有他們可能感興趣的建築類型。

Yeah. Okay. Thanks very much.

是的。好的。非常感謝。

Alrighty.

好吧。

Thank you. And this concludes our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the conference back over to the company for any closing remarks.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回公司進行閉幕致詞。

Well, thank you all for joining us joining us, and we'll be speaking again in another quarter.

好的，感謝大家加入我們，我們將在下一個季度再次發言。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. We thank you all for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines and have a wonderful day.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝大家參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開線路並度過美好的一天。