DeFi Technologies Inc (DEFT) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hi, everyone, and welcome to the DeFi Technologies 2025 Quarter 2 Financials Review and Shareholder Call. I'm Curtis Schlaufman, VP of Marketing and Communications. On the call, we have CEO, Olivier Roussy Newton; President, Andrew Forson; CFO, Paul Bozoki; and Co-Founder, Johan Wattenstrom.

大家好，歡迎參加 DeFi Technologies 2025 年第二季財務回顧和股東電話會議。我是行銷和傳播副總裁 Curtis Schlaufman。參加電話會議的有執行長 Olivier Roussy Newton、總裁 Andrew Forson、財務長 Paul Bozoki 和共同創辦人 Johan Wattenstrom。

I'm going to read a forward-looking statement to get started, and then we'll get the webinar rolling. Certain information set forth in this presentation contains forward-looking information, including future-oriented financial information and financial outlook under applicable securities laws collectively referred to as forward-looking statements. Except for statements of historical fact, the information contained herein constitutes forward-looking statements and includes, but is not limited to, projected financial performance of the company, completion of and the use of proceeds from the sale of shares being offered here under, the expected development of the company's business, projects or joint ventures. These statements are not guarantees of future performance or undue reliance should not be placed on them. Such forward-looking statements necessarily involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties, which may cause actual performance and financial results in future periods to differ materially from any projections of future performance or results expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements.

首先我將閱讀一份前瞻性聲明，然後我們開始網路研討會。本簡報中所載列的某些資訊包含前瞻性訊息，包括面向未來的財務資訊和適用證券法下的財務展望（統稱為前瞻性陳述）。除歷史事實陳述外，本文所包含的資訊構成前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於公司預期的財務表現、本文所述股份出售所得的完成情況和使用情況、公司業務、專案或合資企業的預期發展。這些聲明並非對未來業績的保證，不應過度依賴它們。此類前瞻性陳述必然涉及已知和未知的風險和不確定性，這可能導致未來期間的實際業績和財務結果與此類前瞻性陳述表達或暗示的未來業績或結果預測存在重大差異。

So done with that, I'll give you a little overview of how this is going to go. We'll start with some statements from the exec team here, starting with Olivier, and we'll move on with Paul. with an overview of the financials, and then Johan will give a brief overview on our 2025 financial guidance. We'll then open it up and take some retail questions from the Q&A and then invite our analysts on live to ask additional questions and wrap it up from there.

完成後，我會給你一個關於這將如何進行的簡要概述。我們將從這裡執行團隊的一些聲明開始，首先是 Olivier，然後是 Paul。概述財務狀況，然後 Johan 將簡要概述我們的 2025 年財務指導。然後，我們將打開問答環節，回答一些零售問題，然後邀請我們的分析師在現場提出其他問題，並從那裡總結。

So with that, I'll hand it off to our CEO, Olivier Roussy Newton.

因此，我將把這個任務交給我們的執行長奧利維爾·魯西·牛頓 (Olivier Roussy Newton)。

Thanks, Curtis, and thanks to everyone who has joined on this Friday in the summer. Q2 2025, and Curtis, I'll let you flip on to the slide. Q2 2025 showed us what our platform, specifically all of our business units combined can deliver in a softer market. We reported adjusted revenues of USD 32.1 million, adjusted EBITDA of USD 21.6 million and adjusted net income of $17.4 million. The takeaways of all of this are pretty simple. Our model scales, prints cash and performs across market conditions.

謝謝，柯蒂斯，也感謝夏天這個星期五參加的所有人。2025 年第二季度，柯蒂斯，我讓你翻到幻燈片。2025 年第二季向我們展示了我們的平台，特別是我們所有的業務部門在疲軟的市場中能夠提供什麼。我們報告的調整後收入為 3,210 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 2,160 萬美元，調整後淨收入為 1,740 萬美元。所有這些的要點都非常簡單。我們的模型可以擴展、印製現金並根據市場條件發揮作用。

As a company, speaking with kind of Johan, my co-Founder and the team yesterday, I mean in detail before we filed our financials, I still believe we're extremely early in our growth story, with the flywheel of all of our subsidiaries acquired or incubated and each business line is reinforcing the others. For Valour, our kind of largest business unit, which is specifically operating in the asset management space, demand continued to build with net inflows every month year-to-date, totaling USD 77.4 million for the first half. AUM ended Q2 at USD 772.8 million and reached USD 947 million by July 31. In Q2, Valour generated USD 6.9 million in staking and lending income and USD 2.1 million in management fees. We also launched 14 new ETPs, keeping us on track with our target of 100 listed products by year-end, which would make us the largest issuer of digital asset structured products on regulated stock exchanges.

作為一家公司，昨天我與聯合創始人約翰和團隊進行了詳細的交談，我的意思是在我們提交財務報表之前，我仍然相信我們的成長故事還處於非常早期的階段，我們所有子公司的飛輪都被收購或孵化，每條業務線都在相互加強。對於我們最大的業務部門 Valour 來說，該部門專門在資產管理領域運營，需求持續增長，今年迄今為止每月都有淨流入，上半年總計 7,740 萬美元。第二季末的 AUM 為 7.728 億美元，截至 7 月 31 日達到 9.47 億美元。第二季度，Valour 產生了 690 萬美元的質押和借貸收入以及 210 萬美元的管理費。我們還推出了 14 隻新的 ETP，使我們有望實現年底前上市 100 隻產品的目標，這將使我們成為受監管證券交易所中最大的數位資產結構性產品發行人。

Outside Europe, Andrew has done a tremendous job and effort in terms of pushing our global expansion. Outside of Europe, we're continuously expanding in Europe, but we are in the final phases of regulatory approval in Kenya in both Turkey and are targeting other markets in Asia, LatAm, and we'll let Andrew elaborate on that further into the presentation.

在歐洲以外，安德魯在推動我們的全球擴張方面做出了巨大的工作和努力。在歐洲以外，我們在歐洲不斷擴張，但我們在肯亞和土耳其的監管審批正處於最後階段，我們瞄準了亞洲、拉丁美洲的其他市場，我們將讓安德魯在演講中進一步闡述這一點。

Stillman Digital, which was acquired, I believe, October of last fiscal year, has been a great acquisition. Q2 revenue was USD 1.9 million. Stillman also completed its integration in Talos, deepened capabilities in FX and a large focus of Stillman has been market making and providing liquidity for stablecoins as that market segment becomes one of the largest digital dollar-based stablecoins and the availability for that. So we see that as a significant potential growth area. They also added some great senior trading talent.

我記得，斯蒂爾曼數位公司 (Stillman Digital) 是在上個財年 10 月被收購的，這是一次偉大的收購。第二季營收為190萬美元。Stillman 也完成了與 Talos 的整合，深化了外匯方面的能力，而 Stillman 的重點一直是做市和為穩定幣提供流動性，因為該細分市場已成為最大的基於數位美元的穩定幣之一，並且具有可用性。因此我們認為這是一個具有巨大潛在成長潛力的領域。他們也吸收了一些優秀的高級交易人才。

In our DeFi Alpha business, we executed a high conviction, low-risk trade in May with $17.3 million in returns and maintain a zero loss track record since inception, which was, I believe, we've been operating for about a year and three months now that we incubated DeFi Alpha.

在我們的 DeFi Alpha 業務中，我們在 5 月份進行了一筆高信念、低風險的交易，獲得了 1730 萬美元的回報，並且自成立以來一直保持零虧損記錄，我相信，從我們孵化 DeFi Alpha 到現在已經運營了大約一年零三個月。

Neuronomics, which was recently, four or five months ago, acquired the majority stake of Neuronomics. We've been a shareholder of Neuronomics for around three to four years. We see them as one of the leading and pioneering companies in artificial intelligence and specifically applying AI to the digital asset sector, which they've done for four to five years now and traditional equities for almost 10. They completed the development and testing of smart crypto, which we'll have more news about shortly and will open subscriptions for institutional and qualified investors in early September.

Neuronomics 最近（四、五個月前）收購了 Neuronomics 的多數股權。我們已經成為 Neuronomics 的股東大約三到四年了。我們認為他們是人工智慧領域的領先和先鋒公司之一，特別是將人工智慧應用於數位資產領域，他們已經在這個領域工作了四到五年，在傳統股票領域工作了近十年。他們完成了智慧加密的開發和測試，我們很快就會發布更多相關消息，並將於 9 月初向機構和合格投資者開放認購。

Neuronomics also secured a validator note on the Canton Network, which is a fast-growing blockchain, positioning us to participate directly in institutional-grade tokenized assets. Reflexivity, which is our research unit that complements all of our customers at Valour with leading-edge information on all the alternative -- primarily alternative crypto coins that they're kind of buying and trading. So that is kind of the main focus, but they've expanded distribution into platforms such as Baluga, BlockWire and CoinMarketCap, which is, I believe, the largest trafficked digital asset website globally. And we are building new events and newsletter sponsorships alongside a brand upgrade in institutional clients.

Neuronomics 還在快速發展的區塊鏈 Canton Network 上獲得了驗證者票據，使我們能夠直接參與機構級代幣化資產。Reflexivity 是我們的研究部門，它為 Valour 的所有客戶提供所有替代品（主要是他們正在購買和交易的替代加密貨幣）的前沿資訊。所以這是主要的關注點，但他們已經將分銷擴展到 Baluga、BlockWire 和 CoinMarketCap 等平台，我相信，CoinMarketCap 是全球流量最大的數位資產網站。我們正在打造新的活動和時事通訊贊助，同時對機構客戶進行品牌升級。

So that kind of comprises all of our companies within the DeFi Technologies' umbrella. Moving kind of to our balance sheet. We remain well capitalized with USD 26.4 million in cash and $26 million in digital assets with a combined $52.4 million as of June 30. We are in the process of renewing our NCIB, which is the Canadian terminology for share buyback program that we will utilize to buy back kind of what we see as an undervalued share for our financial performance as a company.

因此，這涵蓋了 DeFi Technologies 旗下的所有公司。轉移到我們的資產負債表。我們的資本充足，截至 6 月 30 日，我們擁有 2,640 萬美元現金和 2,600 萬美元數位資產，總額為 5,240 萬美元。我們正在更新我們的 NCIB，這是加拿大的股票回購計劃術語，我們將利用該計劃回購我們認為對公司財務表現而言被低估的股票。

What the rest of 2025 looks like, we've raised outlook. Based on the current performance and market conditions, we raised 2025 annualized operating revenue guidance to USD 218.6 million more listings in new markets. We expect additional ETPs listings in the coming months with a robust pipeline through 2025 and into 2026. As I mentioned before, on track for 100 years, 100 products by year-end. We're also expanding into Africa, Asia, Middle East, other regions within Europe, United Kingdom. And as I mentioned, final phases of regulatory approval, execution will continue.

對於 2025 年剩餘時間的情況，我們進行了展望。根據目前的業績和市場狀況，我們將 2025 年年度營業收入預期上調至 2.186 億美元，新增新市場上市數量。我們預計未來幾個月將有更多 ETP 上市，到 2025 年和 2026 年將有充足的 ETP 上市儲備。正如我之前提到的，我們將在未來 100 年內推出 100 種產品。我們也正在向非洲、亞洲、中東、歐洲其他地區和英國擴張。正如我所提到的，監管部門批准的最後階段和執行工作將繼續進行。

And all of these new geographies come on stream. It is a bit of a longer process, but regulatory approvals in all of these jurisdictions, market making, FX partnerships make it all happen. And I'll let Andrew, as I mentioned, elaborate further on that.

所有這些新地區都已開始運作。這是一個較長的過程，但所有這些司法管轄區的監管批准、做市、外匯合作使得這一切成為可能。正如我所提到的，我將讓安德魯進一步闡述這一點。

And -- and yes, I think that sums up most of this. We've also kind of -- I think we'll have more information coming shortly on our newest business line, DeFi Advisory that uses our kind of expertise in trading technology, market making, OTC for public companies that are managing digital assets. So you'll see more news surrounding that.

是的，我認為這概括了大部分內容。我們也會——我想我們很快就會發布更多關於我們最新業務線 DeFi Advisory 的信息，該業務線利用我們在交易技術、做市、場外交易方面的專業知識，為管理數位資產的上市公司提供服務。因此你會看到更多與此相關的新聞。

And to conclude, we're encouraged to see a structural upgrade in our shareholder base. Since early July, we've welcomed and reported 89 additional institutional investors and funds, bringing us to 95 institutional owners representing over 33 million shares. Despite recent share price action, the register is deepening with longer horizon capital. And I firmly believe it's an indicator of a quiet rotation of our shareholder base away from retail driven towards institutions that are welcoming digital asset companies.

總而言之，我們很高興看到股東基礎的結構升級。自 7 月初以來，我們已迎來並報告了 89 家新增機構投資者和基金，使我們的機構股東總數達到 95 家，代表超過 3,300 萬股。儘管近期股價有所波動，但隨著資本的長期成長，登記冊正在不斷深化。我堅信，這表明我們的股東群體正在悄悄從散戶轉向歡迎數位資產公司的機構。

And yes, to kind of conclude, put simply, I think we're delivering now and building sustainable value for the long term. And we're keen on being one of the leanest revenue-producing companies in the digital asset space listed on the NASDAQ.

是的，總而言之，簡單地說，我認為我們現在正在實現目標，並為長期創造可持續的價值。我們渴望成為納斯達克上市的數位資產領域最精簡的創收公司之一。

I'll pass it over to you, Paul.

我會把它交給你，保羅。

Thank you, Olivier. So starting with the presentation currency. Beginning with the second quarter of 2025, DeFi changed its presentation currency to the US dollar to better meet the needs of our US investor base following our successful NASDAQ listing in May. In terms of AUMs, DeFi closed June 30 with AUM of $773 million. Q2 average AUM decreased to $748 million from the $780 million in Q1 due to negative cryptocurrency price movements on our alternative coins. However, cash inflow into our ETPs remained strong with positive Q2 inflows of $27 million, bringing total inflows for the six months ended June 30 to $77.4 million. In terms of revenue, our Q2 IFRS revenue of $13.4 million brought our cumulative IFRS revenues for the six months ended June 30 to $57.1 million. The company's revenue guidance for the six months ended June was $62.5 million, thus the actual revenue shortfall was $5.5 million or 8.7% due to DeFi Alpha trading revenues deferred into the second half of 2025.

謝謝你，奧利維爾。因此從演示貨幣開始。從 2025 年第二季開始，DeFi 將其呈現貨幣更改為美元，以更好地滿足我們美國投資者群體的需求，此前我們於 5 月在納斯達克成功上市。就資產管理規模而言，截至 6 月 30 日，DeFi 資產管理規模為 7.73 億美元。第二季由於我們的替代貨幣的加密貨幣價格出現負面波動，平均 AUM 從第一季的 7.8 億美元下降至 7.48 億美元。然而，我們 ETP 的現金流入依然強勁，第二季流入現金 2,700 萬美元，使截至 6 月 30 日的六個月的總流入量達到 7,740 萬美元。就收入而言，我們第二季的 IFRS 收入為 1,340 萬美元，使我們截至 6 月 30 日的六個月的累計 IFRS 收入達到 5,710 萬美元。該公司截至 6 月的六個月的收入預期為 6,250 萬美元，因此由於 DeFi Alpha 交易收入推遲到 2025 年下半年，實際收入缺口為 550 萬美元，即 8.7%。

The minor miss was due to DeFi Alpha revenues being lower than planned in the first half. The company reminds investors that these trades are opportunistic and may not be realized on a straight-line basis, but we reiterate that we do have a strong pipeline.

此次小下滑是由於 DeFi Alpha 上半年收入低於計畫。該公司提醒投資者，這些交易是機會性的，可能無法直線實現，但我們重申，我們確實擁有強大的管道。

Our IFRS reported revenues also include the effect of a movement in the discount of lack of marketability provision, DLOM. The acquisition of 18.7 million locked SUI tokens as part of our Q2 DeFi Alpha trade and crypto price increases on our existing locked Solana and AVAX coins, the DLOM increased by $18.7 million in the quarter and brought the total DLOM provision to $74 million. I remind everybody that, that $74 million DLOM provision will unwind over the locked period of the coins, which goes until 2028. So it will come back into income and increase our equity.

我們的 IFRS 報告收入還包括缺乏市場化準備金折扣 (DLOM) 變動的影響。作為我們第二季 DeFi Alpha 交易的一部分，我們收購了 1870 萬個鎖定的 SUI 代幣，並且我們現有的鎖定 Solana 和 AVAX 代幣的加密貨幣價格上漲，DLOM 在本季度增加了 1870 萬美元，使 DLOM 總撥備達到 7400 萬美元。我提醒大家，7,400 萬美元的 DLOM 準備金將在貨幣鎖定期內解除，鎖定期持續到 2028 年。因此它將重新轉化為收入並增加我們的權益。

Talking about AUM monetization. Our Q2 effective realized staking income was 3.6% on the average $748 million AUM. We staked 72.5% of our AUM during Q2. Staking revenue decline is due to the notable drop in on-chain activity, particularly on the Solana network. lower average prices of key assets Ethereum and Solana, which were both down about 20% quarter-over-quarter, lower protocol reward rates in Q2 versus Q1, protocol inflation and reward reductions across Solana, 4.4% down from 4.6% in Q1 and similar down reductions for TON Coin, Polygon and NEAR.

談論 AUM 貨幣化。我們第二季實際實現的質押收入為平均 7.48 億美元 AUM 的 3.6%。我們在第二季質押了 72.5% 的 AUM。質押收入下降是由於鏈上活動顯著下降，尤其是在 Solana 網路上。主要資產以太坊和 Solana 的平均價格下跌，環比均下跌約 20%，第二季度的協議回報率低於第一季度，Solana 的協議通膨和獎勵減少，從第一季的 4.6% 下降了 4.4%，TON Coin、Polygon 和 NEAR 的降幅也類似。

Inflation reductions lead to lower baseline reward rates resulting in lower staking yields. We also redeemed 71.6% of our unlocked coins within one of our equity investments in digital assets, which resulted in some of the coins becoming unstaked at the end of Q2. Our effective staking income earned for the full six-month period ended June 30 was 4.3% Our effective management fee yield earned during Q2 was 1.1%, down slightly from the 1.3% earned in Q1 due to positive price performance of Bitcoin and Ethereum, where we earn management fees of zero. People remember, we earned a headline rate of 1.9% on most coins, but Bitcoin and Ethereum zero. So the effective rate was 1.1% in Q2.

通貨膨脹的降低導致基準報酬率降低，進而導致質押報酬率降低。我們還在一項數位資產股權投資中贖回了 71.6% 的解鎖代幣，這導致部分代幣在第二季末被取消質押。截至 6 月 30 日的整個六個月期間，我們的有效質押收入為 4.3%。第二季我們的有效管理費收益率為 1.1%，略低於第一季的 1.3%，原因是比特幣和以太幣的價格表現良好，我們的管理費為零。人們記得，我們​​在大多數貨幣上獲得了 1.9% 的總體利率，但比特幣和以太坊的利率為零。因此第二季的有效利率為1.1%。

This brings our total effective AUM monetization being staking income and management fees in Q2 to 4.7%, down from 6.2% in Q1 due to the factors noted above on lower staking yields. Average AUM monetization for the six months ended June 30 was 5.5%. Our adjusted EBITDA came in at 21.6%, reflecting a strong focus on profitability. Adjusted EBITDA includes adjustments to add back the noncash DLOM and noncash share-based comp. In terms of the balance sheet, the company focuses on maintaining balance sheet strength. We ended Q2 with $26.4 million in cash to provide ample liquidity to meet our obligations. In terms of new investments, the company's venture portfolio consists of eight private investments with the largest investment being our 5% stake in Amina Bank. Amina Bank continues to perform exceptionally well, growing its revenues and AUM while maintaining strong fundamentals. Readers can find additional detail on its performance in our press release and our MD&A.

這使得我們第二季度的總有效 AUM 貨幣化（質押收入和管理費）從第一季的 6.2% 下降至 4.7%，原因是上述質押收益率較低的因素。截至 6 月 30 日的六個月的平均 AUM 貨幣化率為 5.5%。我們的調整後 EBITDA 達到 21.6%，反映出對獲利能力的高度關注。調整後的 EBITDA 包括加回非現金 DLOM 和非現金股權補償的調整。在資產負債表方面，公司專注於維持資產負債表實力。我們在第二季結束時擁有 2,640 萬美元的現金，以提供充足的流動性來履行我們的義務。在新投資方面，該公司的創投組合包括八項私人投資，其中最大的投資是我們在阿米納銀行 (Amina Bank) 的 5% 股份。阿米納銀行持續表現出色，在保持強勁基本面的同時，營收和資產管理規模不斷成長。讀者可以在我們的新聞稿和 MD&A 中找到有關其表現的更多詳細資訊。

And lastly, to just reiterate what Olivier said, during Q2, we did repurchase 675,900 shares and returned $1.9 million to investors, and we are in the process of renewing our NCIB to continue doing so. I'll pass it over to Johan.

最後，重申一下 Olivier 所說，在第二季度，我們確實回購了 675,900 股股票，並向投資者返還了 190 萬美元，我們正在更新 NCIB 以繼續這樣做。我會把它交給約翰。

Right. I give some color on the dip in monetization for Q2. And I would say that absolutely nothing has changed on the downside in terms of rather the opposite. We have strengthened our ability to monetize the AUM to date as of today. The dip during Q2 was due to the composition of our assets and the market. As Bitcoin dominance was up at 65% during Q2. It's down since that level. And now we've seen the out coins being stronger and stronger. Obviously, Bitcoin Ethereum, especially Bitcoin remains the lowest yields for us, both in terms of management fees and in terms of staking, lending yields. And the reason we have upped our full year forecast is that as the market is today, the strong performance in the last few weeks not the least for alt coins has put us in a much stronger position to higher the monetization rate to all-time highs, hopefully within this quarter because of the composition of our AUM.

正確的。我對第二季貨幣化的下降給了一些解釋。我想說的是，從不利的方面來看，情況絕對沒有任何改變，恰恰相反。截至目前，我們已經增強了將 AUM 貨幣化的能力。第二季的下滑是由於我們的資產和市場組成造成的。比特幣的主導地位在第二季上升至 65%。自該水平以來，它一直處於下降趨勢。現在我們看到我們的貨幣越來越強大。顯然，比特幣以太坊，尤其是比特幣仍然是我們收益率最低的，無論是在管理費方面，還是在質押、借貸收益率方面。我們上調全年預測的原因是，就目前的市場情況而言，過去幾週的強勁表現（尤其是山寨幣的表現）使我們處於更有利的地位，可以將貨幣化率提高到歷史最高水平，希望由於我們 AUM 的組成，能夠在本季度內實現這一目標。

So it's simply a function of the -- what AUM we have in each of our 50 underlying assets and what assets are driven and taking what percentage of the portfolio as a function of market prices. And those conditions were at worst, I would say, possible scenario in Q2. If you look at a few years back, Bitcoin dominance has been between 40% and 60%. It was at 65% during Q2 and has come down below 60% now and alt coins are performing more and more stronger. This obviously leads to our basket of assets having a much better composition for us and allowing us to have a much higher average yield and monetization on our portfolio.

因此，它只是一個函數——我們的 50 種基礎資產中的每一種擁有多少 AUM，以及哪些資產受到驅動，並根據市場價格佔投資組合的百分比。我想說，這些情況是第二季可能發生的最糟糕的情況。如果回顧幾年前，比特幣的主導地位一直在 40% 到 60% 之間。第二季時該比例為 65%，目前已降至 60% 以下，而山寨幣的表現越來越強勁。這顯然會使我們的資產組合具有更好的組成，並使我們投資組合的平均收益率和貨幣化程度更高。

On the full year forecast, there's obviously two components. We have the core business, we have the Alpha trades. And on the Alpha trade side, that account for like communicated at the last call for around half of the forecast. And we have even higher conviction of that coming to fruition. Not the least that's our higher AUM in the assets where we can do these trades, which compose of our pipeline has grown in terms of AUM and our capacity to do these trades. That's on the DeFi Alpha side. Nothing has changed in our full year forecast for what we will be able to execute.

就全年預測而言，顯然有兩個部分。我們有核心業務，我們有 Alpha 交易。在 Alpha 交易方面，這相當於上次通話中傳達的預測的約一半。我們更加堅信這個目標將會實現。最重要的是，我們可以進行這些交易的資產的 AUM 更高，這構成了我們的管道在 AUM 和進行這些交易的能力方面都有所增長。這是 DeFi Alpha 方面的事情。我們對全年能夠執行的計劃的預測沒有任何變化。

And in terms of the monetization rate, it's already up significantly from Q2, and we continue to see that trend following through as our asset composition has changed and product mix has changed to the better. Yes, I think that concludes the change -- the returns we've seen and why we are very optimistic right now. So nothing has changed on the downside. Rather, we believe that this mechanism obviously, will be to our advantage now when the market -- what we believe is a continuous strong market for the year.

就貨幣化率而言，它已經從第二季度大幅上升，隨著我們的資產組成變化和產品組合變得更好，我們繼續看到這一趨勢的延續。是的，我認為這總結了變化——我們所看到的回報以及為什麼我們現在非常樂觀。因此，不利的一面沒有任何改變。相反，我們相信，當市場今年持續強勁時，這種機制顯然對我們有利。

So yes, that concludes my color on the forecast for the year.

是的，這就是我對今年預測的總結。

Thank you, Johan. And I'd also like to remind folks that over the past six quarters, we've raised the guidance. And initially, we do aim to offer what we view or Johan views as conservative guidance. I believe at the end of 2023, we offered guidance of around $60 million in revenue. We ended up at the end of the year at $144 million in revenue. That's if we're not taking into account all the messiness of the DLOM. So we've continually raised guidance, and we've exceeded those numbers, and we expect to do that again.

謝謝你，約翰。我還想提醒大家，在過去的六個季度裡，我們已經提高了指導價。最初，我們確實旨在提供我們或約翰認為的保守指導。我相信到 2023 年底，我們的預期收入約為 6,000 萬美元。截至年底，我們的收入為 1.44 億美元。如果我們不考慮 DLOM 的所有混亂情況的話。因此，我們不斷提高指導值，並且已經超出了這些數字，我們希望再次做到這一點。

And with that, let's open it up to some questions from our shareholders. If you want to type in the chat, you can and we can -- I can pick out a few. And then we'll invite analysts to come on and participate as panelists. We'll have an open forum for questions for them. All right. I've not seen any questions in the chat.

現在，讓我們來回答股東們的一些問題。如果您想在聊天中輸入內容，您可以，我們可以—我可以挑選一些。然後我們會邀請分析師作為小組成員參加。我們將為他們提供一個開放的論壇來解答問題。好的。我在聊天中沒有看到任何問題。

I'll just invite and Ed. If you're an analyst, please raise your hand and I'll invite you to a panelist. Cool. Let's open it up with Mike, I think you're on mute. We can start with there. Yes. Mike, we can start with you. Go ahead and ask any questions you have questions.

我就邀請你，艾德。如果你是分析師，請舉手，我會邀請你加入小組討論。涼爽的。讓我們和麥克一起打開它，我想你處於靜音狀態。我們可以從那裡開始。是的。麥克，我們可以從你開始。繼續提問您有疑問的任何問題。

Thanks guys. My first question is your guidance now of USD 218 million. Can you help us bridge that? What number are you using for the first six months of the year? And what are the big drivers to get you to USD 218 million for the full year? I'll start with that.

謝謝大家。我的第一個問題是您現在的指導金額是 2.18 億美元。你能幫助我們解決這個問題嗎？今年前六個月您使用的數字是多少？那麼，推動您全年營收達到 2.18 億美元的主要因素是什麼？我先從那裡開始。

Yes. I think the simple answer there is that when we did the guidance last time, our market -- the portfolio composition was different, which actually projected a lower monetization rate for the rest of the year because of the market action we've seen in a lot of the big AUM assets for us. It gives us in a much better position at the moment for generating more yield from our base business. Also, the pipeline for our Alpha trades, they are -- the alpha trades we have are measured for us in coins and the value has gone up in those prospective trades we have in our pipeline.

是的。我認為簡單的答案是，當我們上次做指導時，我們的市場 - 投資組合組成是不同的，實際上預測今年剩餘時間的貨幣化率會較低，因為我們在許多大型 AUM 資產中看到了市場行為。這讓我們目前處於更有利的地位，可以從基礎業務中獲得更多。此外，我們的 Alpha 交易管道是 - 我們擁有的 Alpha 交易以硬幣來衡量，並且我們管道中的潛在交易的價值已經上升。

So given that we can execute the same amount of trades, which we have a high conviction of for the year that we forecasted early on, those trades will be higher dollar value if even be the same amount of coins. And that's basically it.

因此，如果我們能夠執行相同數量的交易，並且我們對今年的預測與我們早期預測的一樣有信心，那麼即使是相同數量的硬幣，這些交易的美元價值也會更高。基本上就是這樣。

Okay. So just paraphrasing that a little bit, but what's the six-month US dollar revenue number? I just want to understand the starting point. And then what I think you're saying, Johan, is most of this is going to be Alpha trades. Like I think in US dollars, we're at like $6 million or maybe for six months, we're at like $12 million or $13 million in staking and $4.5 million in management fees. So maybe that annualizes to about USD 30 million. So the rest is really coming from trading activity.

好的。所以只是稍微解釋一下，但是六個月的美元收入數字是多少？我只是想了解起點。然後我認為你要說的是，約翰，其中大部分將是 Alpha 交易。例如，我認為以美元計算，我們的金額大概是 600 萬美元，或者說，六個月的押金金額大概是 1200 萬美元或 1300 萬美元，管理費是 450 萬美元。因此，年化收益可能達到約 3,000 萬美元。因此，其餘部分實際上來自交易活動。

Yes. If you look at the dip we had in Q2 for fees for management fees and for staking rewards, I don't have it on the top of my head, but I would think that if I recall correctly, -- the average daily AUM was at a significantly lower level than our AUM is at now. There also has been some developments that -- there are assets now that we can monetize from now that we couldn't monetize historically at all, like for Ripple, for instance, where we will get 7%. We didn't get anything historically and so forth. So I would say that at these levels, the staking and management fees rewards would be just 30% higher, just given the market level and the market composition for -- at present.

是的。如果你看一下我們第二季管理費和權益獎勵費用的下降，我並沒有想到，但如果我沒記錯的話，我會認為——平均每日 AUM 明顯低於我們現在的 AUM 水平。另外也出現了一些進展——現在我們可以將一些資產貨幣化，而以前我們根本無法將其貨幣化，例如對於 Ripple，我們將獲得 7% 的收益。從歷史上看，我們沒有得到任何東西等等。因此，我想說，在這些水準上，考慮到目前的市場水準和市場組成，質押和管理費的回報只會高出 30%。

So we will see a much higher monetization rate if this market continues. Obviously, that's the assumption here. And for the Alpha trades, it's the same number of coins for the same trades in the pipeline that we guided on before, but it's a higher dollar value because of the higher values of those tokens, higher value where we are exploring those trades. So it's correct that a big part of this would be obviously, the Alpha trade similar to last year. And as we have discussed, I guess, in a lot of calls historically and also in these calls, unfortunately, it's not super easy to pin down when those will occur on a quarterly basis. But on a yearly basis, obviously, we have a high conviction that they will occur.

因此，如果這個市場持續下去，我們將看到更高的貨幣化率。顯然，這是這裡的假設。對於 Alpha 交易，它與我們之前指導過的相同交易中的代幣數量相同，但由於這些代幣的價值更高，因此它的美元價值更高，我們正在探索這些交易的價值也更高。因此，顯然其中很大一部分是與去年類似的 Alpha 交易，這是正確的。我想，正如我們在歷史上的許多電話會議以及這些電話會議中所討論的那樣，不幸的是，要確定這些事情何時會在季度基礎上發生並不容易。但從每年的情況來看，顯然我們堅信這些事情會發生。

So -- and obviously realize that from your side, it's much easier to model and forecast staking yields, management fees and so on. And we also try to look on how we can communicate that better. So the AUM composition is more clear. But I think that will give a lot of insight in the dynamics of the monetization yield. And you can see, for instance, that if we earn x amount on Solana in staking yields in MEV yields -- in MEV fees and transaction and in the management fees and also in market making in those assets because that's also another revenue generator, then it will be much easier for you to follow, yes, from the levels of -- the price levels of those assets, what our composition of the AUM is and derive what earnings rate we are at.

所以——顯然從你的角度來看，建模和預測權益收益率、管理費等要容易得多。我們也嘗試尋找如何更好地傳達這一點。因此AUM的構成更加清楚。但我認為這將為貨幣化收益的動態提供許多見解。例如，您可以看到，如果我們在 Solana 上透過質押收益、MEV 收益（MEV 費用和交易、管理費以及這些資產的做市費，因為這也是另一個收入來源）賺取 x 金額，那麼您將更容易從這些資產的價格水平跟踪我們的 AUM 構成，並得出我們的收益率。

Yes. I think it's important to emphasize that we're not only with Valour specifically, we're not only making staking fees and management fees, but also trading fees and market making fees as well. So Johan and team have monetized effectively that issuance structure from -- in every facet where we're squeezing margin from every area we can.

是的。我認為需要強調的是，我們不僅與 Valour 合作，我們不僅收取質押費和管理費，還收取交易費和做市費。因此，Johan 和他的團隊已經有效地將發行結構貨幣化——我們正在從各個方面盡可能地擠壓利潤。

Another line item that I think will make it easier for analysts to forecast once we can publish it, hopefully, that would be quite soon, is the money we generate at liquidity provision in market making. And right now, that's part of the realized and unrealized profit and losses from all trading activities and all positions.

我認為，一旦我們發布另一項內容，分析師就能夠更容易地進行預測，希望這很快就會實現，那就是我們在做市中透過流動性提供所產生的資金。目前，這是所有交易活動和所有頭寸的已實現和未實現的盈虧的一部分。

It would be great if you could break that out.

如果你能打破這個局面，那就太好了。

Yes, because that's definitely something that's easy to model because it's -- the -- our margins -- net margins are very stable over time, but they correlate strongly with the turnover on our products on the stock market, which also is very highly correlated to the turnover in the crypto market. So I think then you would get also a lot of super important input for your models as well to increase accuracy.

是的，因為這絕對是容易建模的東西，因為我們的利潤率——淨利潤率在一段時間內非常穩定，但它們與我們產品在股票市場上的營業額密切相關，而股票市場上的營業額也與加密貨幣市場的營業額高度相關。所以我認為你也會獲得很多對你的模型非常重要的輸入，以提高準確性。

Cool. Well, just one more question. We've been waiting for you guys to expand into Africa, Asia and the Middle East. What are still some of the roadblocks to getting into those regions?

涼爽的。嗯，還有一個問題。我們一直在等待你們向非洲、亞洲和中東擴張。進入這些地區還面臨哪些障礙？

Andrew?

安德魯？

Yes. If I may, it's less -- it's not actually a matter of roadblocks. It's a matter of dotting the Is, crossing the Ts. As a case in point, this morning, I was on a call at 5:00 AM. Eastern Time with the Capital Markets Authority of a particular jurisdiction. So many jurisdictions for political reasons, for instance, they would like to know where are the underlying assets of the ETPs custodied. And they want to do something like find out, is there a way to get it, for instance, custodied in their country. And in that regard, since Valour is vertically integrated, we manage the custody, so we explain this process to them.

是的。如果可以的話，這實際上不是一個障礙的問題。這只是一件需要細心處理的事情。舉個例子，今天早上 5 點我接到了一個電話。東部時間與特定司法管轄區的資本市場管理局聯繫。例如，許多司法管轄區出於政治原因，他們想知道 ETP 的基礎資產託管在哪裡。他們想要做一些事情，例如找出是否有辦法將其保管在他們的國家。在這方面，由於 Valour 是垂直整合的，我們負責管理託管，所以我們向他們解釋了這個過程。

We have to understand that the digital asset space, while it's quite advanced in terms of regulatory environments within our countries, Western Europe, Canada and the US. In the others, there's somewhat of an education process. In all of these markets, we're more than advanced. In many of these markets, we're actually in the process of doing, I'll almost call them book generation or presales. But I think it's something that I've said to Curtis recently. Going forward, we want to be very conservative about how we announce and when we announce and that when we do make announcements, it's almost like over delivery. So we want to make sure that all the conditions are right before we talk about what's going to happen.

我們必須了解，數位資產領域在我們國家、西歐、加拿大和美國的監管環境方面相當先進。在其他方面，存在某種教育過程。在所有這些市場中，我們都處於領先地位。在許多這樣的市場中，我們實際上正在進行，我幾乎稱之為圖書生成或預售。但我認為這是我最近對柯蒂斯說過的話。展望未來，我們希望在宣布消息的方式和時間上非常保守，當我們確實發布消息時，幾乎就像是超額交付。因此，在討論接下來要發生的事情之前，我們要確保所有條件都正確。

But the appetite is actually quite strong for our products, not only the digital asset products, but other products that our infrastructure will permit. And the expansion, it does continue in various regions of the world. Obviously, East Africa is a big one. With regards to the Kenya Digital Exchange, the technology there has actually been assembled and developed, and we're actually just in some final legal stuff. And it's sort of unfun to have this particular discussion during the Q2 call because August is a huge holiday month in many parts of the world. So that means governments, in particular, are not as present in these months, but we are moving right along, definitely in East Africa, as mentioned, I think there'll be some pleasant surprises there. Latin America, we've had some great progress there. Asia, we've had great progress as well.

但實際上，人們對我們產品的需求相當強烈，不僅是數位資產產品，還有我們的基礎設施允許的其他產品。而這種擴張確實在世界各地持續進行。顯然，東非是一個大問題。關於肯亞數位交易所，那裡的技術實際上已經組裝和開發完畢，我們實際上只處於一些最後的法律事宜。在第二季電話會議上進行這個特別的討論有點無趣，因為八月是世界許多地方的重要假期月份。這意味著，特別是政府在這幾個月裡沒有出現，但我們仍在繼續前進，尤其是在東非，正如所提到的，我認為那裡會有一些驚喜。在拉丁美洲，我們在那裡取得了一些重大進展。在亞洲，我們也取得了巨大的進步。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Thank you. And you want to move on to Michael Kim.

謝謝。您想繼續討論邁克爾金 (Michael Kim)。

Hey guys, thanks for taking my questions. Just first, in terms of product development, just curious to get your perspective from maybe more of a broader strategic approach. It seems like you've got opportunities to launch existing strategies into newer geographies on the one hand as well as coming to market with newer, more innovative strategies. So just curious to kind of get your perspective on the broader approach, if you will.

嘿夥計們，謝謝你們回答我的問題。首先，就產品開發而言，我只是好奇想從更廣泛的策略角度了解您的觀點。看起來，一方面，您有機會將現有策略推廣到新的地區，另一方面，您也有機會將更新、更具創新性的策略推向市場。所以，如果您願意的話，我只是好奇地想了解您對更廣泛的方法的看法。

I can give a first comment there on something that has been kind of becoming quite clear the last few months here that the decision we made to be the leading asset manager in this space in regards of number of assets, number of products has shown to have a lot of synergies with other new initiatives we have on products. Because we have such a complete universe of investable securities in the digital asset space, we have been approached and had a lot of really deep discussions with major global banks about building products on top of our product portfolio. And those includes UCITS funds, which are in high demand from institutions in Europe, Latin America and other places of the world. Also on the structured product side, where there's large banks that use their own distribution, construct the structured products based on our assets because it's not allowed in most jurisdictions to do these types of products directly on crypto assets, whilst we can offer a full investment universe to build these products out of.

我可以就過去幾個月來已經變得相當清楚的一件事發表第一個評論，那就是我們決定成為該領域在資產數量和產品數量方面領先的資產管理者，這一決定已經證明與我們在產品方面的其他新舉措具有很大的協同作用。由於我們在數位資產領域擁有如此完整的可投資證券，我們已經與全球主要銀行接洽並進行了大量深入的討論，討論在我們的產品組合基礎上建立產品。其中包括 UCITS 基金，歐洲、拉丁美洲和世界其他地區的機構對這些基金的需求很高。此外，在結構化產品方面，大型銀行使用自己的分銷管道，根據我們的資產建立結構化產品，因為大多數司法管轄區不允許直接在加密資產上生產此類產品，而我們可以提供完整的投資範圍來建立這些產品。

So that's also -- corresponds very well with our initiatives to launch our own UCITS fund in Europe and also do so with our own structured products for three- to five-year term structures in some key markets. But we were obviously pleasantly surprised to see a lot of demand from large institutions with their own distribution networks to start building exclusively on our products, which obviously will feed into our AUM. And I think that that's a great receipt for us that we made the right decision in terms of how we build our portfolio and develop the products on top of this. It will not only be our product developments, but also the product developments of major banks and new jurisdictions on top of what we already have. So that's one interesting point, I think.

因此，這也與我們在歐洲推出自己的 UCITS 基金的舉措非常吻合，也與我們在一些主要市場推出自己的三至五年期結構化產品的做法非常吻合。但我們顯然驚訝地發現，擁有自己分銷網絡的大型機構對我們的產品有大量需求，這顯然會增加我們的資產管理規模 (AUM)。我認為這對我們來說是一個很好的證明，我們在如何建立我們的產品組合和在此基礎上開發產品方面做出了正確的決定。這不僅是我們產品的開發，也是各大銀行和新司法管轄區在我們現有產品基礎上的產品開發。我認為這是一個有趣的觀點。

I'd love to add on to this because this is where I really think the strategic future and vision of Valour and the founders of Valour and DeFi Tech comes into play. We are being reached out to by not only global banks, some multilateral development banks and actual exchanges that have a sovereign basis. And what they like about us is that we have the ability to create instruments that hybridize digital assets with traditional assets on the same infrastructure. So whenever people think about Valour, they're thinking about the limitations of digital assets.

我很樂意補充這一點，因為我認為這是 Valour 以及 Valour 和 DeFi Tech 創始人的戰略未來和願景發揮作用的地方。與我們接觸的不僅有全球性銀行，還有一些多邊開發銀行和具有主權基礎的實際交易所。他們喜歡我們的地方在於，我們有能力在相同的基礎設施上創造將數位資產與傳統資產混合的工具。因此，每當人們想到勇氣時，他們就會想到數位資產的限制。

But I mean, notwithstanding the fact that we have the broadest portfolio of digital asset ETPs in the world, people are reaching out because we also currently today, have a very, very broad distribution of instruments listed on a number of premier exchanges. So I think that, that's a significant area for expansion. And the fact that more and more in the real-world asset space, you're seeing linkages between digital assets and traditional assets, this is a position that we are already there. We are already leading effectively in the real-world asset space, and it doesn't actually require too much modification of what we already do in order to expand with significant products there.

但我的意思是，儘管我們擁有世界上最廣泛的數位資產 ETP 組合，但人們仍在尋求幫助，因為我們目前在許多主要交易所上市的工具分佈非常廣泛。所以我認為這是一個值得擴展的重要領域。事實上，在現實世界的資產領域中，你越來越多地看到數位資產和傳統資產之間的聯繫，這是我們已經存在的立場。我們已經在現實世界的資產領域處於有效領先地位，並且實際上不需要對我們已經做的事情進行太多的修改，就可以在該領域擴展重要的產品。

And I can say without a doubt, I'll call it, our R&D initiative has us working with sovereign level exchanges on creating innovative products over the last few months. And we're -- I'm really excited about that.

我可以毫不懷疑地說，我稱之為我們的研發計劃，讓我們在過去幾個月與主權級別的交易所合作創造創新產品。而且我們——我對此感到非常興奮。

Got it. That's super helpful. Appreciate the color there. Just -- and then maybe just one other question. In terms of the new advisory business, can you frame sort of the pipeline or the opportunity more broadly, just given all the public companies that are seemingly transitioning to digital assets, treasury strategies. It just seems like there's a lot of pent-up demand there.

知道了。這非常有幫助。欣賞那裡的色彩。只是——也許還有一個問題。就新的顧問業務而言，考慮到所有似乎正在向數位資產和財務策略轉型的上市公司，您能否更廣泛地闡述管道或機會。看起來那裡有很多被壓抑的需求。

Well, I think I can give a quick take at that. I think I was a recent import from a foundation from Hadera. And what you'll find is DeFi Technologies is uniquely placed to solve a lot of foundation problems. And every single token that you hear of out there has a backing foundation that normally has liquidity-related issues. They not only have liquidity-related issues, they're also very interested in figuring out how to get their tokens into the hands of most people, more people, particularly institutions because a lot of institutions can't touch them. And they're actually also really interested in figuring out what are the best revenue-generating projects to invest in.

好吧，我想我可以快速回答一下這個問題。我想我是最近從哈德拉基金會引進的。你會發現 DeFi 技術有獨特的優勢，可以解決許多基礎問題。你所聽到的每一個代幣都有一個支持基金會，而該基金會通常存在與流動性相關的問題。他們不僅有與流動性相關的問題，他們還非常有興趣弄清楚如何將他們的代幣交到大多數人、更多人、特別是機構的手中，因為很多機構無法觸及它們。他們實際上也非常有興趣弄清楚哪些是最好的創收項目值得投資。

Now the one thing that DeFi Technologies has been exceedingly good at doing is actually finding projects in the digital asset space that generate revenue, either in the stablecoin space, either in the liquidity provision space. And a lot of these foundations actually want in on these types of projects. So whenever you combine our ability to bring liquidity to foundations that are somewhat hamstrung in terms of what they can do with their tokens, when you combine the fact that we have a very, very broad exposure.

現在，DeFi Technologies 非常擅長做的一件事就是在數位資產領域尋找能夠產生收入的項目，無論是在穩定幣領域，還是在流動性提供領域。許多基金會其實都想參與這類計畫。因此，只要我們有能力為那些在使用代幣方面受到一定限制的基金會帶來流動性，再加上我們擁有非常廣泛的曝光度這一事實，我們就會做到這一點。

So a foundation can only look at their own token. I mean, could you imagine if Polygon or some other foundation started dealing in another chain's token, that would be politically suboptimal. But in our case, since we have connections and all, it gives us the ability to provide broader solutions and linking them with the capital markets. So in that way, the DeFi advisory isn't even a service line we had to make. It is something that was more of a demand pull.

因此基金會只能關注自己的代幣。我的意思是，你能想像如果 Polygon 或其他基金會開始交易另一個鏈的代幣，那在政治上將不是最優的。但就我們而言，由於我們擁有各種人脈，因此我們有能力提供更廣泛的解決方案並將其與資本市場聯繫起來。因此，從這個角度來看，DeFi 諮詢甚至不是我們必須提供的服務熱線。這更像是一種需求拉動。

And I mean, myself, I think this is an okay thing to say, there have been three foundations that are begging us to provide them with particular solutions that I never reached out to. And these solutions are quite easy for us to deliver on either in terms of provision of liquidity, defining new ETPs, assisting with establishing almost like a corporate venture capital portfolio and having novel yield-generating strategy companies because a lot of them have determined that, having a pure buy and hold with no revenue model strategy company is actually suboptimal. So they're trying to figure out how can they get productive assets together with their native assets to deploy strategy companies that would have more value, and we're well positioned for that.

我的意思是，就我個人而言，我認為這樣說是可以的，有三個基金會懇求我們為他們提供我從未聯繫過的具體解決方案。這些解決方案對我們來說相當容易實現，無論是在提供流動性、定義新的 ETP、協助建立幾乎像企業風險投資組合一樣的方案，還是擁有新穎的收益生成戰略公司，因為很多公司已經確定，純粹的買入並持有而沒有收入模式的戰略公司實際上並不是最優的。因此，他們正在試圖弄清楚如何將生產性資產與本土資產結合起來，以部署更有價值的策略公司，而我們已做好充分準備。

And I think just touching on just the brief synopsis of advisory in general. We did announce our first deal a few weeks ago with NVVE. This is, I call it a digital asset treasury in a box. I think somebody termed that Matt Sigel from VanEck. I saw him use that. So we're -- we want to work with partners or public companies that we can -- we see as really partners or leverage in a commercial way as well. And implement digital asset treasury strategies that we think are sustainable and long term using only tokens that we have high conviction in. As I mentioned, one deal in the pipeline. We have a couple of others that we'll announce over the coming weeks and months and looking to add into that or our way to take advantage of this sort of BMO catalyst in the industry right now. And we're taking either -- we're taking a percentage of the AUM in either a flat rate in cash or equity from that perspective.

我認為這只是對一般諮詢的簡要概述。幾週前我們確實宣布了與 NVVE 的第一筆交易。這就是，我稱之為盒子裡的數位資產金庫。我認為有人稱之為 VanEck 的 Matt Sigel。我看見他用過那個。因此，我們希望與合作夥伴或上市公司合作，我們也將他們視為真正的合作夥伴或商業槓桿。並僅使用我們高度信任的代幣來實施我們認為可持續且長期的數位資產財務策略。正如我所提到的，有一筆交易正在籌備中。我們還將在未來幾週和幾個月內宣布其他一些舉措，並希望將其納入其中，或利用目前行業中這種 BMO 催化劑。從這個角度來看，我們要麼以現金或股權的固定利率提取一定比例的 AUM。

I'd love to add one more thing. I mean I'm trying to hide my excitement about this. But it's really incredible because it's not mutually exclusive. And what I mean by that is a lot of these foundations are looking for multiple options. So the fact that we exist, we can provide a structure, but it doesn't mean it locks out other participants in providing a structure. Where we have a real advantage is it's soup to nuts, right from origination, right from token -- right from the token, we're able to go directly to the capital markets. And that's something that the Web three space, I mean, back when I was doing VC in the Web three space, we used to talk about like Web three math because their valuations were really, really wonky and they would have a hard time bringing capital into their projects. Well, this is where DeFi Technologies excels, right? So it's -- to me, it's super exciting, and it's definitely useful for the foundations.

我想補充一點。我的意思是我試圖隱藏我對此的興奮。但這確實令人難以置信，因為它並不是互相排斥的。我的意思是，很多基金會都在尋求多種選擇。因此，事實上，我們的存在使我們能夠提供一個結構，但這並不意味著它會阻止其他參與者提供結構。我們真正的優勢在於，從起源到最終實現，從代幣開始，我們就能夠直接進入資本市場。這就是 Web 3 領域的事情，我的意思是，當我在 Web 3 領域做創投時，我們常常談論 Web 3 數學，因為他們的估值真的非常不穩定，他們很難將資金引入他們的專案。嗯，這就是 DeFi 技術的優勢所在，對吧？所以對我來說，這是非常令人興奮的，而且對於基金會來說絕對有用。

Great. Appreciate it. Thanks for taking my questions.

偉大的。非常感謝。感謝您回答我的問題。

Ed Engel.

艾德‧恩格爾。

Hi guys, thanks for taking my questions here. Appreciate all the additional color on the guidance. I just kind of wanted to hone in on, I guess, DeFi Alpha. You talked about how this year, some of these deals are taking a little bit longer than you initially expected at least the first half of the year. I guess what kind of gives you conviction that this can all kind of happen in the second half of the year? And I guess, do you see any risk that some of these deals can maybe slip into next year? Thanks.

大家好，感謝你們在這裡回答我的問題。感謝指南中所有額外的色彩。我只是想深入研究 DeFi Alpha。您談到，今年其中一些交易的完成時間比您最初預期的要長一些，至少要到上半年。我想什麼能讓您確信這一切都會在下半年發生呢？我想，您是否認為其中一些交易可能會推遲到明年？謝謝。

It's obviously extremely hard to say if any of these deals will slip into next year. Obviously, we're working super hard to make sure they happen within this year and sooner rather than later. And I would say each and every of the deals we are working on in our pipeline. There's different triggers for all of them. There might be some who do not want to execute before the price is at a certain level. I think we have not really forecasted to be able to do all the trades in our pipeline, but rather, I think, 65% of them because there's always something that falls off. So I wouldn't say it's an overly optimistic forecast. And I wouldn't say it has necessarily taken a longer time with any of these than the trades we already executed.

顯然，很難說這些交易是否會延續到明年。顯然，我們正在竭盡全力確保它們在今年內或儘早實現。我想說的是，我們正在進行的每一筆交易。它們都有不同的觸發因素。有些人可能不想在價格達到一定水平之前執行。我認為我們並沒有真正預測能夠完成我們頻道中的所有交易，而是，我認為，能夠完成其中的 65%，因為總是會有一些交易失敗。所以我不認為這是一個過於樂觀的預測。而且我不會說這些交易一定比我們已經執行的交易花費更長的時間。

It's always negotiations and back and forth and depends also a bit -- the appetite depends a bit on the market conditions. In Q2, when the market came down for a lot of these tokens, there was a few of these that wanted to delay a little bit. And I think that was to be expected. But I wouldn't say that any of these deals have been worked on for much longer than expected or the deals we actually have executed.

這總是一場談判，一場來回，而且還取決於一點——胃口有點取決於市場狀況。在第二季度，當許多代幣的市場價格下跌時，其中一些代幣想要稍微推遲。我認為這是意料之中的事。但我不會說這些交易中的任何一項的執行時間都比我們預期的或實際執行的交易要長得多。

So it's -- yes, these are deals where we have a very strong relation to the other, the counterparty and there's a strong will from both parties to do it. There might be some technicalities. There might be some incentive for some people to wait because of bad market conditions during Q2. But yes, as I think I mentioned also, I think some of these might be much higher value because of the higher price levels we see now.

是的，在這些交易中，我們與對方的關係非常密切，而且雙方都有強烈的意願去做這件事。可能存在一些技術細節。由於第二季市場狀況不佳，有些人可能會選擇等待。但是的，正如我剛才提到的，我認為其中一些可能具有更高的價值，因為我們現在看到的價格水平更高。

And we don't -- I don't assume we will do all of them, even though we hope to do 100%, but if we do 65% of them, we will be able to reach target. Yes, it's -- yes, on an individual basis on each of these trades, it's -- I would say we have around 15 of these trades that we could do and hope to do this year. We don't think we'll do all of them, but that's not in the forecast either.

我們不會——我不認為我們會完成所有的事情，儘管我們希望完成 100%，但如果我們完成其中的 65%，我們就能達到目標。是的，是的，就每筆交易而言，我想說，我們大約有 15 筆這樣的交易可以做，並且希望今年能夠做。我們認為我們不會完成所有的事情，但這也不在預測之中。

Okay. Really good that color. And then I want to touch on, you guys issued a press release about an investigation into share discrepancies. I think some other details on like Canadian listings and maybe some indiscriminate short selling. Can you just give a little bit more color for those of us that are less aware of Canadian market structure and I guess, some of your early findings there and I guess, what you think might be going on?

好的。那個顏色真的很好看。然後我想談談，你們發布了一份關於調查股份差異的新聞稿。我認為還有一些其他細節，例如加拿大上市以及一些不加區分的賣空行為。您能否為我們這些不太了解加拿大市場結構的人提供更多細節，我想，您在那裡的一些早期發現，以及您認為可能發生的事情？

I can touch on just that investigation in general. So this was at the request of many different shareholders to look into our trading activity. So of course, we obliged because we want to make sure our shareholders are supported. And the initial few reports did raise some flags in terms of the amount of unpaired shares that were present on over the course of three specific trading days. So we've reached out to the specific brokers in question for additional clarity on why that might have occurred or may have occurred, and we'll continue to pursue that. And if we get any actionable evidence that there is any foul play involved, then we will take action. But we are still waiting on conclusive evidence before taking any further action. Right now, we're still looking into it.

我只能大致談談該項調查。因此，這是應許多不同股東的要求，調查我們的交易活動。因此，我們當然願意這樣做，因為我們希望確保我們的股東得到支持。最初的幾份報告確實對三個特定交易日內出現的未配對股票數量提出了一些警告。因此，我們聯繫了具體的經紀人，以進一步了解為什麼會發生或可能已經發生這種情況，我們將繼續追蹤。如果我們獲得任何可訴證據證明有任何不正當行為，我們就會採取行動。但我們仍在等待確鑿證據，然後再採取進一步行動。目前，我們仍在調查此事。

Good. And I guess, I mean you guys have made progress, obviously, listing on NASDAQ and changing your reporting to US dollars and definitely appreciate that there's definitely tons of progress going on there. It feels like a lot of this accounting, I guess, confusion and even some of this market structure is a bit more related to Canadian markets, and it's unfortunate because fundamentally, there's kind of been no change, but it feels like some of these more technical issues have kind of been weighing on things.

好的。我想，我的意思是，你們顯然已經取得了進展，在納斯達克上市，並將報告改為美元，並且非常欣賞那裡正在取得的巨大進展。我猜，感覺很多會計方面的混亂，甚至一些市場結構都與加拿大市場有更多關聯，這很不幸，因為從根本上來說，並沒有什麼變化，但感覺其中一些更技術性的問題一直在影響著事情的發展。

Any opportunity to either, I guess, focus more on the US, whether that's, I guess, moving past the Canadian listing or even domicile in the US. I'm just kind of curious if there's an opportunity just to be completely US in terms of the listing and some of these accounting rules. Thanks.

我想，任何機會都可以將重點更多地放在美國，無論是超越加拿大上市還是在美國註冊。我只是有點好奇，是否有機會在上市和一些會計規則方面完全採用美國標準。謝謝。

I can touch that. We are a foreign private issuer. It's an annual test July 1, every year, and it's a combination of your assets, your directors and your shareholders. So the test on how many US people are in there. And if you fail, then January 1 the following year, you become a US domestic. So we just passed our July test. So we're still IFRS and Canadian. If we fail, we'd have to adopt US GAAP and become a US reporting issuer under the SEC. If the feedback from the market is we should adopt US GAAP, the Board of Directors can consider that as a separate matter to just do that.

我可以觸摸它。我們是一家外國私人發行人。這是每年 7 月 1 日進行的年度測試，它結合了您的資產、董事和股東。所以要測試裡面有多少美國人。如果你失敗了，那麼從第二年 1 月 1 日起，你將成為美國國內公民。所以我們剛剛通過了七月的考試。所以我們仍然遵循國際財務報告準則並且是加拿大的。如果我們失敗了，我們必須採用美國公認會計準則，並成為美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 下的美國報告發行人。如果市場回饋我們應該採用美國公認會計準則，董事會可以將其作為單獨事項來考慮。

In terms of redomiciling the [CanCo] to the United States to become a Delaware company, we would have a tax issue, right? Because Valour is now -- the market cap of the company is essentially driven off of Valour. Our cost base of Valour is about $70 million. So our market cap is not huge. It would be a Canadian exit tax. But -- so it's unlikely that in the near term, we would redomicile to the United States, but the US GAAP, we either fail FPI or we voluntarily adopt.

就將 [CanCo] 遷至美國成為特拉華州公司而言，我們會遇到稅務問題，對嗎？因為 Valour 現在——該公司的市值基本上是由 Valour 決定的。Valour 的成本基礎約為 7000 萬美元。所以我們的市值不大。這將是加拿大的退出稅。但是 - 因此，短期內我們不太可能遷回美國，但根據美國公認會計準則，我們要么不符合 FPI，要么自願採用。

I guess even if you remain a foreign issuer and maybe avoid some of the tax issues, I mean, what's kind of the Board -- I guess, I know you can't speak for the Board, but what's kind of the overall view towards just the Canadian listing in general, especially just given that you have graduated to a through the NASDAQ listing?

我想，即使您仍然是外國發行人，並且可能避免一些稅務問題，我的意思是，董事會是什麼樣的——我想，我知道您不能代表董事會發言，但對於加拿大上市的總體看法是什麼樣的，特別是考慮到您已經通過納斯達克上市？

Maybe I'll turn that to Oli. We could drop Cboe to NASDAQ. But maybe, Oli, if you want to.

也許我會把它交給奧利。我們可能會將 Cboe 降至 NASDAQ。但也許吧，奧利，如果你願意的話。

Yes. I think it's actively being explored, and we've definitely looked at that broad scenario. I think as Paul touched on being kind of all American doesn't suit our bottom line in terms of Canadian exit tax to redomicile towards the United States. I think obviously, the political situation in the US is not something I kind of I think the Board would want to be attached to in the long term, and we're developing this company for the long term. But the capital markets are great in the US. So we'll definitely explore that. But I think we remain a foreign listed issuer. And that could see us dropping our Cboe Canada listing in the not-too-distant future.

是的。我認為我們正在積極探索這個問題，而且我們也確實考慮過這個廣闊的場景。我認為，正如保羅所提到的那樣，在加拿大退出稅並遷往美國方面，完全美國化並不符合我們的底線。我認為，顯然，美國的政治局勢不是董事會想要長期關注的事情，我們正在為公司的長期發展而努力。但美國的資本市場非常好。所以我們一定會探索這一點。但我認為我們仍然是一家海外上市發行人。這可能導致我們在不久的將來放棄在加拿大芝加哥期權交易所 (Cboe) 上市。

Okay, yes. Thanks again for the call, guys. And again, the AUM continues to well great. So operationally, things look fantastic.

好的，是的。再次感謝大家的來電。並且，AUM 繼續保持良好勢頭。因此從操作上來看，一切看起來都很棒。

And Kevin, we get to you, and then we'll move on to Allen after that. Kevin, you're on mute if you wanted to ask a couple of questions.

凱文，我們先來談談你，然後再談談艾倫。凱文，如果你想問幾個問題，你就靜音了。

All right. Allen, we'll let you go first.

好的。艾倫，我們先放你走。

Thank you. Hello. You mentioned that there's less activity on alt coins during the quarter and an increase in the value of Bitcoin and Ethereum where you don't get management fees caused a lower yield on your AUM. But you expect this to improve in the future. Is there a way to think about kind of a range that's reasonable?

謝謝。你好。您提到本季山寨幣的活動較少，而比特幣和以太坊的價值上漲（您無需支付管理費）導致您的 AUM 收益率較低。但你期望這種情況將來會得到改善。有沒有辦法考慮一個合理的範圍？

I think -- let me just rephrase it. I would say that in the main assets where we stake, the staking yields has not been falling at all. We have gotten more -- there's a small component called transaction fees that we collect on top of the staking yields and MEV trading. Those are marginal and vary with the activity on chain. So the only reason which is easier -- makes it easier to model if we can produce more numbers for you going forward is just that the AUM levels sunk quite a bit compared to the ones in Bitcoin, for instance, and Ethereum because of how the market was reacting in Q2, obviously, with the Bitcoin dominance up at 65%. So it's mainly a function not of falling rewards. It's a function of the product mix, the composition of our total AUM as applied to the different underlying assets.

我認為──讓我重新表達一下。我想說的是，在我們投資的主要資產中，投資報酬率根本沒有下降。我們獲得了更多——除了質押收益和 MEV 交易之外，我們還收取一小部分費用，稱為交易費。這些都是邊際的，並且隨著鏈上的活動而變化。因此，唯一更簡單的原因是——如果我們可以為您提供更多數字，那麼建模將變得更容易，因為與比特幣和以太坊相比，AUM 水平下降了很多，這是因為市場在第二季度做出了反應，顯然，比特幣的主導地位上升了 65%。因此，它主要是一種功能，而不是獎勵下降的功能。它是產品組合的函數，是應用於不同基礎資產的總 AUM 的組成。

Sui, Solana, Avalanche, quite a few of these took a big hit during that quarter and so did our AUM in those assets. That has recovered strongly at this point and our asset allocation is very much different as is our average monetization yield. And that also obviously reflects our management fees. On Bitcoin, most of our AUM in Bitcoin is in our Bitcoin zero product where we have zero management fee. So it's mainly a function of the market prices in our portfolio.

Sui、Solana、Avalanche 等許多公司在該季度都遭受了重創，我們在這些資產上的 AUM 也受到了重創。目前，這一數字已強勁復甦，我們的資產配置和平均貨幣化收益率有很大不同。這顯然也反映了我們的管理費。在比特幣上，我們的大部分比特幣 AUM 都在我們的比特幣零產品中，該產品的管理費為零。因此，它主要取決於我們投資組合中的市場價格。

And then obviously, that leads to what percentage of our daily average AUM they represent and what contribution to our amortization rate that represents. So I think if we can give more clarity in the future on what the AUM is per asset, I think that would make it easier to forecast on your side and see also why the drop occurred in Q2. And I think it might even be a good thing long term because we obviously -- we believe that there's a huge number of the digital assets, which has a lot of unique value added to contribute with in terms of utility and different applications. So we obviously are big fans of Bitcoin, but we no terms Bitcoin maximalist and we're trying to be the first mover in a lot of these other very interesting technologies.

然後顯然，這會導致它們占我們每日平均 AUM 的百分比以及對我們的攤銷率的貢獻。因此，我認為，如果我們將來能夠更清楚地說明每項資產的 AUM 是多少，那麼您就可以更輕鬆地進行預測，並了解為什麼第二季會下降。我認為從長遠來看這甚至可能是一件好事，因為我們顯然相信，有大量的數位資產在實用性和不同的應用方面具有許多獨特的附加價值。因此，我們顯然是比特幣的忠實粉絲，但我們不是比特幣的極端主義者，我們正試圖成為許多其他非常有趣的技術的先驅。

So if one believe that Bitcoin will not be doing the asset, but actually, there will be a strong market for the others as well, then I think what we saw in weakness in Q2 in that regard will be -- we will see the other side of that coin, which is the upside when Bitcoin dominance falls. And I think still we are at 58% to 60%, where we're up at 65%. And historically, we've been in a range between 40% and 60% or so. So I think there's a lot of upside in monetization rate when the other technologies will become stronger, and we'll be able to monetize that to a larger extent.

因此，如果有人認為比特幣不會成為資產，但實際上，其他資產也會有一個強勁的市場，那麼我認為我們在第二季度看到的這方面的疲軟將是——我們將看到事情的另一面，即比特幣主導地位下降後的上行空間。我認為我們的比率仍為 58% 至 60%，最高可達 65%。從歷史上看，我們的這一比例一直處於 40% 到 60% 左右的範圍內。因此，我認為，當其他技術變得更強大時，貨幣化率將有很大的上升空間，我們將能夠在更大程度上將其貨幣化。

If I could add on to what Johan is saying, I think he's absolutely right. If any time you hear of an announcement of a stablecoin, you have to understand that the stablecoin is not likely built on Bitcoin. Bitcoin as a blockchain or a token is not really used in a functional way. It is the alt coins that have very high transaction volumes, great smart contract programming languages. That's where the action is when it comes to RWA, real-world assets, stable coins, yield-generating tokens.

如果我可以補充約翰所說的話，我認為他是完全正確的。如果您聽到有關穩定幣的公告，您必須明白，穩定幣不太可能建立在比特幣之上。比特幣作為區塊鏈或代幣並沒有真正以功能性的方式使用。它是一種具有非常高交易量和出色智能合約程式語言的山寨幣。這就是涉及 RWA、現實世界資產、穩定幣、收益代幣時採取行動的地方。

And for the investor to gain exposure to that, right now, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that your most likely path to gaining exposure to these nascent technologies that are booming is through Valour because we have the broadest portfolio of these instruments. And in particular, it's these newer layer 1 chains that have incredibly high transaction rates. So there's a distinction between financial transaction in terms of securities and the transaction volumes of the underlying chain. These are the chains that are capturing the imagination of developers, financial engineers in the Web three space, and this is where we really do have a competitive advantage. Very exciting.

對於現在想要接觸這些新興技術的投資者來說，我認為可以毫不誇張地說，最有可能接觸到這些蓬勃發展的新興技術的途徑是透過 Valour，因為我們擁有這些工具最廣泛的投資組合。特別是這些較新的第 1 層鏈具有極高的交易率。因此，證券方面的金融交易和底層鏈的交易量是有區別的。這些鏈正在吸引 Web 3.0 領域的開發人員和金融工程師的想像力，而這正是我們真正具有競爭優勢的地方。非常令人興奮。

Yes. We're obviously very bullish on Bitcoin as well, but it's -- I think what drove the Bitcoin focus, obviously, in not least Q2 was the hype around the treasury companies, MicroStrategy and so forth and maybe 100 copies of MicroStrategies around the world. And those -- they have obviously been very good at marketing and selling that narrative. We are not big fans of that business model of the treasury companies. I don't think it's sustainable, might hit back on the market at some point, I would guess. There's more efficient ways of gaining exposure to all these assets.

是的。我們顯然也非常看好比特幣，但我認為推動比特幣關注的因素顯然是，至少在第二季度，圍繞財務公司、MicroStrategy 等的炒作，以及全球可能有 100 份 MicroStrategies 的拷貝。而且他們顯然非常擅長行銷和推銷這種敘事。我們不太喜歡財務公司的這種商業模式。我認為這是非可持續的，我猜想在某些時候可能會對市場產生反擊。有更有效的方式來獲取所有這些資產。

So I think less of a hype in these Bitcoin treasury companies, but also even if we don't -- we're not big fans of treasury companies, obviously, we see that type of entity spreading across other assets as well, which might help in short term, at least to drive those -- the visibility of those. So it's a good PR marketing thing, maybe if nothing else. But I think we will see less of a sole focus on Bitcoin because of that hype. And I think that's what we see in the market right now, and it will turn out to be a strength for our breadth of portfolio rather than a problem like we saw early in Q2.

因此，我認為這些比特幣財務公司的炒作較少，但即使我們不這麼認為——我們不是財務公司的忠實粉絲，顯然，我們也看到這種類型的實體蔓延到其他資產，這可能在短期內有所幫助，至少可以推動這些資產的知名度。所以這或許是一種很好的公關行銷手段，至少沒有別的。但我認為，由於這種炒作，我們將不再那麼關注比特幣。我認為這就是我們目前在市場上看到的情況，它將成為我們投資組合廣度的優勢，而不是像我們在第二季初看到的那樣是一個問題。

Let's -- we only have a couple of minutes left. Let me give Kevin a chance again. Kevin, are you there? You're still muted. Kevin, if you wanted to answer or ask questions.

我們──只剩下幾分鐘了。讓我再給凱文一次機會。凱文，你在嗎？您仍然保持靜音。凱文，如果你想回答或提問。

Thanks, Curtis. Sorry about that. Yes. A little bit of a technical issue on my end, and I apologize. You gentlemen have spoken to management fees falling from the first quarter to the second quarter. I think the numbers you said it was $1.3 billion to $1.1 billion. How do you see them improving in the second half? And how much of a quotient is that in driving your raised guidance?

謝謝，柯蒂斯。很抱歉。是的。我這邊出現了一點技術問題，我很抱歉。各位先生已經談到管理費從第一季下降到第二季。我認為您說的數字是 13 億美元到 11 億美元。您認為他們在下半場會有什麼進步？這對您提高指導價有多大作用？

Yes. I would say that as you might have deducted that fall was on the average of the portfolio, and it's driven by the same factors as with the staking rewards and so forth because we have the Bitcoin zero, which is our largest AUM product in Bitcoin has zero management fees. And the bigger part of the overall portfolio, the less the average. So I'd say that simple. There's no pressure on any management fees on our products at all. We actually have launched a few products with higher management fees last six months because we think they have been maybe less liquid, maybe a bit more volatile and harder to hedge. And then we've taken some precautions and heightened the management fees.

是的。我想說的是，正如你可能已經推斷的那樣，下跌是投資組合的平均值，它受到與質押獎勵等相同因素的驅動，因為我們擁有比特幣零，這是我們最大的 AUM 產品，比特幣的管理費為零。而且，投資組合的份額越大，平均值就越低。所以我會說這很簡單。我們的產品沒有任何管理費壓力。事實上，過去六個月我們推出了一些管理費較高的產品，因為我們認為這些產品的流動性可能較低，波動性可能較大，而且更難對沖。然後我們採取了一些預防措施並提高了管理費。

We also have a lot of assets where we have, I would say, monopoly at this point. So -- but we have seen no pressure on the management fees as such. So similar to the staking rewards and MEV fees and transaction fees on our validators, the management fees are basically a product of the AUM and the composition within our product mix. So we have products with 2.5% management fee. We have products with 1.9%, which is the most common. But then we have Bitcoin and Ethereum ones. We have two big products with zero management fees and the less part of the overall portfolio they are, the more -- the higher the management fee average will be. And so it's purely a function of the composition, similar to with the other revenue streams.

我們還擁有許多資產，我想說，目前我們已經擁有壟斷地位。所以——但我們沒有看到管理費的壓力。因此，與我們的驗證者的權益獎勵、MEV 費用和交易費用類似，管理費基本上是 AUM 和我們產品組合構成的產物。因此，我們的產品管理費為 2.5%。我們有 1.9% 的產品，這是最常見的。但是我們有比特幣和以太坊。我們有兩種大型產品的管理費為零，它們在整個投資組合中所佔的比例越小，平均管理費就越高。因此，它純粹是一個組成功能，與其他收入來源類似。

Yes. Johan, have you penciled it out at all? And I guess, how much of it function is a function in the calculus of your guidance?

是的。約翰，你用鉛筆把它畫出來了嗎？我猜，其中有多少函數是你所指導的微積分中的函數？

I would say it's a small portion because the staking fees are a much bigger part of our income. So if -- for instance, if we take in Solana, we -- what we take in our own validator, which is more and more, we can make 7%. I think it peaked at 7.35%. I think we have 7-point something now in base staking rewards. We have another 1% in MEV fees. And on top of that, we have maybe 1% of transaction fees from within that network in the blocks. And then we have 1.9% in management fees. So it's basically 11% and management fee is 1.9% of that. And so I would say that the management fees as such is a smaller proportion of the driver here.

我想說這只是一小部分，因為質押費佔了我們收入的很大一部分。因此，例如，如果我們吸收 Solana 的資金，那麼我們在自己的驗證器中吸收的資金就會越來越多，我們可以賺取 7%。我認為它的峰值是 7.35%。我認為我們現在的基礎質押獎勵有 7 點左右。我們還有另外 1% 的 MEV 費用。除此之外，我們可能還會從該網路的區塊中收取 1% 的交易費用。然後我們有 1.9% 的管理費。所以基本上是 11%，管理費是其中的 1.9%。因此我想說，管理費本身只是其中較小的部分驅動因素。

So I have a question for Oli, gentlemen. And I think I've run it by Andrew and Curtis once before. And I guess it would be interesting to see how you might address it now. In order to hit your 100 product target for the year, you'll need to add roughly 25 new products. And I'm wondering, based on your history, if you've been able to look at what a new product commands in terms of new AUM. And if there is any way to apply any kind of an average to that.

先生們，我有一個問題想問奧利。我想我以前曾和安德魯和柯蒂斯一起運行過它。我想看看你現在如何解決這個問題會很有趣。為了達到今年 100 種產品的目標，您需要增加約 25 種新產品。我想知道，根據您的歷史記錄，您是否能夠了解新產品在新的 AUM 方面具有怎樣的指示。並且是否有任何方法可以對此應用任何類型的平均值。

Yes. I think this chart shows the -- if you look at the 2024, that's the inflow 2024 and what's going to be 45% of the inflow was November, December, and that was driven by 20 new products launched. And what we've seen also, I think the total AUM, we got up to 15%. Those 20 new products were 15% or more, I believe, after two months from launch. And these are all smaller coins because we already had, I think, 25 products out there covering all the top ones.

是的。我認為這張圖表顯示了——如果你看一下 2024 年，這就是 2024 年的流入量，其中 45% 的流入量發生在 11 月和 12 月，這是由 20 款新產品的推出推動的。我們也看到，總 AUM 達到了 15%。我相信，這 20 款新產品在推出兩個月後就達到了 15% 或更多。這些都是較小的硬幣，因為我認為我們已經有 25 種產品，涵蓋了所有頂級硬幣。

So -- and this is something we've seen consistently that obviously, there are trends in -- sometimes it's more AI-type tokens, sometimes it's more Level 1 blockchains and so on that are in fashion. But what we see there's a big demand from these. And I think a main reason is that we are a first mover. Those are unique in the world. There's no other way from -- for a lot of these investors to gain exposure to these.

所以——這是我們一直看到的，顯然存在著趨勢——有時是更多的人工智慧類型的代幣，有時是更多的 1 級區塊鏈等等，這些都很流行。但我們看到這些產品的需求很大。我認為主要原因是我們是先行者。這些都是世界上獨一無二的。對於許多投資者來說，沒有其他途徑可以獲得這些機會。

And if you see in this chart, the white field in the last -- that's more pronounced in the last month in this chart, that's all the small new tokens we launched. So even though these are much lower market cap, much less known, I would say it shows that our client base, which is loyal and it's sticky money. They already have the portfolio. They don't re-weight. They actually make new investments into these new assets. And a lot of them are very well read up on the technologies and are requesting smaller coins for us to list that they followed a long time.

如果你在這張圖表中看到，最後的白色區域 - 在這張圖表中上個月更加明顯，那都是我們推出的所有小型新代幣。因此，儘管這些公司的市值低得多，知名度也低得多，但我想說，這表明我們的客戶群是忠誠的，而且資金粘性很大。他們已經擁有了投資組合。他們不會重新稱重。他們實際上對這些新資產進行了新的投資。他們中的許多人非常了解這些技術，並要求我們列出他們長期關注的小額硬幣。

And if they pass our test for eligibility, and we have a conviction that this is -- they are a strong team, a strong history, strong technology and fills a market demand, and then we will do an ETP on them. And the marginal cost for us to do so is very, very small. But yes, as you see, it's -- since we started launching smaller tokens, quite a big portion of our AUM now are in these small tokens. Even though the green, blue, the larger fields here are Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana and which are much more well known. We didn't expect this large part of RAM actually to be composed of this. But I think as mentioned, it's part of us providing something unique and our first movers.

如果他們通過了我們的資格測試，而我們確信他們是一支強大的團隊，擁有悠久的歷史、強大的技術並且滿足了市場需求，那麼我們就會對他們進行 ETP。我們這樣做的邊際成本非常非常小。但是的，正如你所看到的，自從我們開始推出較小的代幣以來，我們資產管理規模的很大一部分現在都存在於這些小代幣中。儘管有綠色、藍色，但這裡較大的領域是比特幣、以太坊、Solana 等更知名的領域。我們沒有想到這麼大一塊 RAM 竟然是由這個組成的。但我認為正如所提到的，這是我們提供獨特產品和先行者的一部分。

And what we've seen in other coins we launched is that if we are the first mover, even when competition catches on, we will remain in the lead and remain the dominant actor in that asset. A lot of value is derived from just being the first mover basically.

從我們推出的其他貨幣中我們看到，如果我們是先行者，那麼即使競爭加劇，我們仍將保持領先地位，並繼續成為該資產的主導者。從根本上來說，很多價值都源自於先行者。

Right, right. Okay. And one more, if I may, Curtis, please. I'm just curious of that -- of the 25 new products you're rolling out, how would you characterize them? And are they primarily going to be bringing existing products to new geographies? Or as you were just talking about.

對，對。好的。如果可以的話，請再說一句，柯蒂斯。我只是很好奇——對於您推出的 25 種新產品，您如何描述它們？他們主要會將現有產品推向新的地區嗎？或者就像您剛才談論的那樣。

Those will all be unique new products, right? So that's not -- our 100 products by year-end is not accounting for potentially kind of --

這些都是獨特的新產品，對嗎？所以這不是——我們到年底的 100 種產品並沒有考慮到潛在的--

Geographical.

地理。

200 products that we would be listing in Africa. So could potentially be when regulatory approvals are in place, there could be 300 products by year-end, theoretically, right? But we're characterizing these as independently unique coins that we monitor, we have feedback from our client base. We kind of hear things in the community and due to kind of our regulatory purview in specific European market jurisdictions that we operate in, we have kind of, I would say, kind of a monopoly globally on smaller coins being rolled out and then passported to other jurisdictions globally that no one else can really do in a very quick and efficient time frame.

我們將在非洲上市 200 種產品。那麼，從理論上講，當監管部門批准到位時，到年底可能會有 300 種產品，對嗎？但我們將其描述為我們監控的獨立且獨特的硬幣，我們從客戶群中獲得了回饋。我們在社區中聽到了一些事情，並且由於我們在運營的特定歐洲市場管轄區的監管權限，我想說，我們在全球範圍內壟斷了小額貨幣的發行，然後將其轉移到全球其他管轄區，而其他任何人都無法在非常快速和有效的時間內做到這一點。

That could obviously change. But for the moment, that's where we're kind of, I think, going to see a large portion of growth. And I think what we've -- what Johan touched on earlier was similar to kind of equity markets, you have kind of blue chip bull markets that rotate into small caps, Bitcoin and Ethereum being kind of the blue chips of crypto and then you see kind of rotations into kind of smaller coins, what kind of, I would say the crypto crowd has been calling alt season for seven or eight years.

顯然，這種情況可能會改變。但就目前而言，我認為我們將會看到很大一部分的成長。我認為，Johan 之前提到的情況與股票市場類似，有藍籌股牛市輪換成小盤股，比特幣和以太坊是加密貨幣的藍籌股，然後你會看到輪換成較小的貨幣，我想說，加密貨幣人群已經稱之為山寨幣季節七八年了。

So that's where I think we're going to see kind of new adoption, new technologies. We're going to be the first to market in a bunch of different geographies with these new verticals of coins, and that's where we've seen growth and revenue historically being the largest driver for Valour and DeFi as a company.

所以我認為我們將會看到新的應用和新技術。我們將率先在一系列不同的地區推出這些新垂直領域的貨幣，而從歷史上看，這些地區的成長和收入一直是 Valour 和 DeFi 公司發展的最大驅動力。

Perfect. Well, thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate you letting me tag on the end too, Curtis. Thanks very much.

完美的。好吧，謝謝各位先生。我很感謝你也允許我在最後加上標籤，柯蒂斯。非常感謝。

Like we had to get you in, we missed you the last couple of times and I apologize for that.

就像我們必須讓你進來一樣，我們最近幾次錯過了你，對此我深表歉意。

No problem. You guys have a great weekend. Thanks very much.

沒問題。祝大家週末愉快。非常感謝。

Thanks, Kevin. All right. I think we answered a lot of the questions from shareholders in the conversation. If you do have any follow-up questions, as always, Andrew and myself are always widely available. You can e-mail ir@defi.tech, curtis@defi.tech or andrew@defi.tech. Bother me first because Andrew is on the road trying to expand our offerings. Thank you all so much for joining today.

謝謝，凱文。好的。我認為我們在談話中回答了股東的許多問題。如果您有任何後續問題，一如既往，我和安德魯隨時可以為您提供幫助。您可以發送電子郵件至 ir@defi.tech、curtis@defi.tech 或 andrew@defi.tech。請先聯絡我，因為 Andrew 正在路上，努力擴展我們的服務。非常感謝大家今天的參加。

I know the share price isn't a reflection of what we're -- how we're executing currently. But look at all the institutions that are coming in, we have high conviction that we're going to outperform this year. There's a lot on the radar for us coming forward. And thank you for your time and for your loyalty as well. Thanks, folks, and look forward to catching up with you in Q3.

我知道股價並不能反映我們目前的執行情況。但看看所有加入的機構，我們堅信今年我們的表現會非常出色。我們關注的重點很多。也感謝您付出的時間和忠誠。謝謝大家，期待在第三季與你們見面。