DeFi Technologies Inc (DEFT) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello and welcome to the Q1 2025 DeFi Technologies Financials, and today we're going to discuss our progress through the quarter, touch on a little bit about what we accomplished last year and what we're looking forward to over the course of this year in the next couple of years. My name is Curtis Lofman, VP of marketing and communications, joined by our CEO Olivia Russe Newton; Co-Founder Johan Wattenstrom; Our CFO Paul Bozzocchi; Capital Markets, head guy, Russell Starr, and our corporate secretary Kenny Choi. First thing we'll read, forward-looking statements and then we'll jump into this. Risk and forward-looking statements, the presentation given and certain statements made within this earnings poll, which are not historical facts, such as expectations, anticipations, beliefs, and estimates are forward-looking statements.

大家好，歡迎參加 2025 年第一季 DeFi 技術財務報告，今天我們將討論本季的進展，稍微談談我們去年取得的成就以及我們對今年和未來幾年的期望。我叫柯蒂斯·洛夫曼 (Curtis Lofman)，是營銷和傳播副總裁，與我一起出席的還有我們的首席執行官奧利維亞·拉塞爾·牛頓 (Olivia Russe Newton)、聯合創始人約翰·瓦滕斯特羅姆 (Johan Wattenstrom)、首席財務官保羅·博佐奇 (Paul Bozzocchi)、資本市場主管崔羅素·肯尼 (Russell Stari）。我們首先要閱讀的是前瞻性陳述，然後我們再深入探討這個問題。風險和前瞻性陳述、本收益調查中給出的介紹和做出的某些陳述並非歷史事實，例如期望、預期、信念和估計都是前瞻性陳述。

These statements may include, without limitation, any statements preceded by, followed by, or including words such as target, believe, assume, expect, commit, aim, intend, may, anticipate, foresee, see, estimate, plan, project, will, is to, focus, can, have, likely, should, would, could, continue, in other words or terms similar meaning of negative thereof. Others can be identified from the context in which these statements are made. Forward looking statements give the company’s current expectations and views of the future developments in light of its current experience and perception of historical trends. Based on numerous assumptions regarding the company’s present and future business strategies and the environment which it will operate in the future. Although the company deem such forward looking statements to be reasonable, no assurance can be given that they will be proven correct.

這些陳述可能包括但不限於任何以目標、相信、假設、期望、承諾、旨在、打算、可能、預期、預見、看到、估計、計劃、項目、將、是、重點、可以、有、可能、應該、會、可以、繼續等詞語開頭、結尾或包含這些詞語的陳述，換句話說或類似否定含義的術語。我們可以透過這些陳述的上下文來識別其他陳述。前瞻性陳述根據公司目前的經驗和對歷史趨勢的看法，給出了公司對未來發展的當前預期和看法。基於對公司當前和未來業務策略以及未來營運環境的眾多假設。儘管公司認為此類前瞻性聲明是合理的，但不能保證它們將被證明是正確的。

These forward looking statements are not guaranteed of future developments and results mentioned therein. Forward looking statements involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors such but not limited to, general economic and industry conditions, which are, in some cases, beyond the company’s control, which may cause actual results to materially differ from those expressed in such statement. The statements are made as per the date of the presentation and this earnings call, and the company does not assume any obligation to review, update, or confirm any forward looking statements contained herein, except to the extent legally required. Also forgot to mention, we’re also joined by Andrew Forsen, president of DeFi Technologies and chief growth officer of Valor. Welcome, Andrew.

這些前瞻性陳述並不能保證其中所提到的未來發展和結果。前瞻性陳述涉及已知和未知的風險、不確定性和其他因素，例如但不限於一般經濟和行業狀況，在某些情況下，這些因素超出了公司的控制範圍，可能導致實際結果與本陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。這些聲明是根據演示日期和本次收益電話會議做出的，本公司不承擔審查、更新或確認此處包含的任何前瞻性聲明的義務，除非法律要求。另外忘了提一下，DeFi Technologies 總裁兼 Valor 首席成長長 Andrew Forsen 也加入了我們。歡迎，安德魯。

This is your first call. Alright. Let’s get into it. Ollie, I’ll hand it off to you.

這是您的第一通電話。好吧。讓我們開始吧。奧利，我會把它交給你的。

Thank you, Curtis, and thanks to everyone who’s, joining us on this call. So we are, you know, delighted to, give our first presentation as a Nasdaq listed company and also, encapsulate, another record, quarter for the company. We, operate own and operate, several subsidiaries, our own venture portfolio, trading desk, treasury strategy, and, several industry partnerships, which allow us to, seamlessly tap into the extensive CAD[33] sector, in a regulated manner, which we’ve, you know, done so since inception of the war and and also DeFi as a public company. So, you know, high level numbers, EBITDA for Q1. Chris, if you go back Right.

謝謝你，柯蒂斯，也感謝參加這次電話會議的所有人。因此，您知道，我們很高興能夠作為納斯達克上市公司進行首次演示，並為公司創下另一個季度記錄。我們經營著幾家子公司、我們自己的風險投資組合、交易部門、財務戰略以及幾個行業合作夥伴關係，這使我們能夠以受監管的方式無縫地進入廣泛的 CAD[33] 領域，你知道，自戰爭開始以來，我們就一直這樣做，並且作為一家上市公司，我們也在 DeFi 領域這樣做。所以，您知道，第一季的 EBITDA 是高水準的數字。克里斯，如果你回去就好了。

High level numbers were 44, just under CAD45 million Canadian translates to CAD31.2 Q1 2025 EBITDA market cap of CAD1.9 billion Canadian equivalent to CAD1.3 billion US. We have 65 listed exchange traded products across a number of different jurisdictions. I think it's almost six or seven now, six highly scalable, business lines, and, we are going to get more into how we plan on, growing all of this, in the coming quarters and years.

高水準數字為 44，略低於 4,500 萬加元，相當於 3,120 億加元，2025 年第一季 EBITDA 市值為 19 億加元，相當於 13 億加元。我們在多個不同的司法管轄區擁有 65 種上市交易所交易產品。我認為現在差不多有六、七條業務線，六條高度可擴展的業務線，而且，我們將在未來幾個季度和幾年內更加深入地了解我們如何計劃發展所有這些業務線。

So, this is our Q1 2025, key financial and business metrics, book value CAD 79.7 million Canadian equivalent to USD55.5 million Q1 2025 net revenue CAD 62.7 million Canadian 443.1 million USD Q1 2024 earnings per share is CAD13 Canadian equivalent to USD0.09 USD, covered the market capitalization. Assets under management, just under a billion, Canadian translates to USD640 million AUM as of 31 2025.

因此，這是我們 2025 年第一季的關鍵財務和業務指標，帳面價值 7,970 萬加元，相當於 5,550 萬美元；2025 年第一季淨收入 6,270 萬加元，相當於 4.431 億美元；2024 年第一季每股收益為 13 加元，相當於 0.09 美元，相當於了市值。截至 2025 年 31 日，管理資產略低於 10 億加元，相當於 6.4 億美元的資產管理規模。

We've obviously seen a somewhat somewhat of a slump, I would say over the last kind of four to five months in in digital assets associated with macro environments that we're seeing a nice rebound in. We've covered Q1 2025 EBITDA CAD 44.8 million, and, as of now, our, as of today, our cash, digital asset treasury and venture portfolio stands at CAD117 million Canadian equivalent to USD810.5 million. We've updated our revenue guidance which we can get into in in further detail on the call, from, I believe it was. USD130 million, up to USD201 million, CAD285.6 million Canadian equivalent, so a big jump based on how we're forecasting digital assets, towards, how they've picked up dramatically in the last quarter, and into the year end.

我們顯然看到了某種程度的低迷，我想說在過去的四到五個月裡，與宏觀環境相關的數位資產出現了良好的反彈。我們的 2025 年第一季 EBITDA 為 4,480 萬加元，截至目前，我們的現金、數位資產資金和創投組合為 1.17 億加元，相當於 8.105 億美元。我們已經更新了我們的收入指引，我相信我們可以在電話會議上更詳細地討論。1.3 億美元，最高達到 2.01 億美元，相當於 2.856 億加元，根據我們對數位資產的預測，這是一個巨大的飛躍，它們在上個季度和年底將大幅增長。

If if anyone’s kind of new to DeFi technologies, this is kind of an overall infographic on all of the specific subsidiaries and business operations that we we own and operate. We have our I’ll start from left to right. We have our own, research unit called Reflexivity Research that we acquired from Anthony Pompliano and Will Clemente about a year ago. It’s been highly complementary to our Velour business unit, where we can provide cutting edge pragmatic research for the holders and, prospective, investors looking for exposure across our 65 plus, exchange traded products. So we complement that with high level research.

如果有人對 DeFi 技術還不熟悉，這是一個關於我們擁有和經營的所有特定子公司和業務營運的整體資訊圖表。我們有我們的我將從左到右開始。我們有自己的研究部門，稱為“Reflexivity Research”，大約一年前我們從 Anthony Pompliano 和 Will Clemente 手中收購了該部門。它與我們的 Velour 業務部門高度互補，我們可以為持有者和潛在投資者提供前沿的實用研究，以接觸我們 65 多種交易所交易產品。因此我們透過高水準的研究來補充這一點。

We’ve recently, closed the acquisition of Stillman Digital, which is a leading market making liquidity service provisioning custody, and OTC desk that is growing extremely rapidly, and has, you know, enabled us to, expand our our internal DeFi Alpha profitability and, and trading execution capabilities. So we’re extremely, happy about having that, integrated finally. It was a kind of a regulatory hurdles of transitioning their, you know, Bermuda based, licenses into our overall corporate structure. We own a, 5% stake in the first licensed, FINMA licensed Swiss bank, which is a AUM has been, growing along with the cryptocurrency industry trend, which is nice to see. And we we also have, a fairly new business unit called DeFi Alpha.

我們最近完成了對 Stillman Digital 的收購，這是一個領先的做市流動性服務供應託管和場外交易平台，發展極其迅速，使我們能夠擴大內部 DeFi Alpha 的盈利能力和交易執行能力。因此，我們非常高興終於實現了這一點。將其百慕達執照過渡到我們的整體公司結構中是一種監管障礙。我們擁有第一家獲得 FINMA 許可的瑞士銀行 5% 的股份，該銀行的 AUM 一直隨著加密貨幣行業的趨勢而增長，這是令人高興的。我們還有一個相當新的業務部門，稱為 DeFi Alpha。

We identify low risk arbitrage opportunities that present themselves, and generated. Just under 100 million US in 2024, equivalent to 133 million Canadian, and recently announced a trade, I believe it was a week and a half ago of $30 million so we continue to assess opportunistically, amidst the volatility of the cryptocurrency cryptocurrency landscape, risk-free arbitrage opportunities opportunities that we see opportunistically picking up.

我們識別並產生低風險套利機會。到 2024 年，這一數字將略低於 1 億美國美元，相當於 1.33 億加拿大美元，並且最近宣布了一項交易，我相信這是一個半星期前的交易，金額為 3000 萬美元，因此，在加密貨幣格局的波動中，我們繼續機會主義地評估無風險套利機會，我們看到機會主義地在增加。

We have a venture portfolio that is really kind of used to take stakes early early stage stakes in companies that we believe have promising potential for the securitization and creation of exchange traded products, which we continue to do and also very excited about the I I believe it was a month ago, we closed the majority stake, 52.5% of a pioneering company called Neuronomics that has been devising equity related artificial intelligence strategies for close to a decade, and for the last four or five years has refocused their efforts in the cryptocurrency space. So we look forward to utilizing our velour infrastructure and new fund infrastructures that we are working on to encompass artificial intelligence, strategies overlaid with with digital assets.

我們有一個風險投資組合，實際上用於在我們認為具有證券化和創建交易所交易產品潛力的公司的早期股權，我們將繼續這樣做，並且對此感到非常興奮。我記得一個月前，我們關閉了一家名為 Neuronomics 的先驅公司的多數股權（52.5%），該公司近十年來一直在製定與股票相關的人工智慧策略，並在過去的四五年裡將精力重新集中在加密貨幣領域。因此，我們期待利用我們正在開發的絲絨基礎設施和新基金基礎設施來涵蓋人工智慧、與數位資產疊加的策略。

Right, thanks, Ollie. Well, let's turn it to you and go a little deeper into the financials from Q1.

好的，謝謝，奧利。好吧，讓我們更深入地了解第一季的財務狀況。

Sorry about that. Thank you, Curtis. Thank you, Ollie. I’ll start with a balance sheet review. So while Q1 saw significant volatility in crypto prices, with declines from December 31 to March 31, It’s also reflected in our total assets declining from CAD1.3 billion to just over CAD1 billion at March 31.

很抱歉。謝謝你，柯蒂斯。謝謝你，奧利。我將從資產負債表審查開始。因此，雖然第一季加密貨幣價格出現大幅波動，從 12 月 31 日到 3 月 31 日出現下跌，但這也反映在我們的總資產從 13 億加元下降到 3 月 31 日的略高於 10 億加元。

I'd like to point out that our average Q1 AUM was CAD1.13 billion or 22.7% higher than our Q4 2024 average AUM of CAD1.1 billion. So just shows that we're also susceptible to very volatile crypto prices, but over time we've actually had a stronger AUM in Q1 than we did in Q4. Similarly, on the back of that, while our AUM did decline at March 31, at a point in time, the quarter we had a net positive inflow of CAD72.4 million into our ETP products, reflecting continued investor interest despite the volatility. The company launched four new products in March 2025, bringing its total ETPs to over 65, and we continue to target over 100 by the end of the year. Our focus remains on maintaining a conservative balance sheet with cash of CAD20 million at March 31, crypto treasury holdings of CAD43.4 million, and the venture portfolio investments of CAD53.9 million.

我想指出的是，我們第一季的平均 AUM 為 11.3 億加元，比 2024 年第四季的平均 AUM 11 億加元高出 22.7%。這表明我們也容易受到加密貨幣價格波動的影響，但隨著時間的推移，我們第一季的 AUM 實際上比第四季更強大。同樣，在此背景下，雖然我們的 AUM 在 3 月 31 日確實有所下降，但在該時間點，本季度我們的 ETP 產品淨流入金額為 7,240 萬加元，反映出儘管市場波動，但投資者的興趣依然持續。該公司於 2025 年 3 月推出了四款新產品，使其 ETP 總數超過 65 種，我們繼續瞄準到今年年底超過 100 種。我們的重點仍是維持保守的資產負債表，截至 3 月 31 日，現金為 2,000 萬加元，加密國債持有量為 4,340 萬加元，創投組合為 5,390 萬加元。

At March 30, 2025, we have shareholders equity of CAD79.7 million. Our loans at March 31, 2025 total CAD12.6 million, which represents which constitutes a CAD2.4 million margin loan at one of our crypto exchanges that we use to facilitate trade clearances, and the CAD10.2 million loan payable to Genesis that's in receivership. The Genesis loan is fully collateralized by $3.59 Bitcoin at March 31, which have which have been fully impaired and thus offset the loan. So it just represents a gross up of our balance sheet. As a P&L review, the company staked 66% of its cryptocurrency and earned CAD14 million of staking income in the first quarter for an effective yield on the entire AUM of 5%.

截至 2025 年 3 月 30 日，我們的股東權益為 7,970 萬加元。截至 2025 年 3 月 31 日，我們的貸款總額為 1,260 萬加元，其中包括向我們的一家加密貨幣交易所提供的 240 萬加元保證金貸款（用於促進貿易清算），以及向 Genesis 支付的 1,020 萬加元貸款（已由託管機構承擔）。Genesis 貸款的全額抵押品為 3 月 31 日價值 3.59 美元的比特幣，這些比特幣已完全減值，從而抵消了貸款。所以它只是代表了我們的資產負債表的總金額。根據損益表，該公司質押了 66% 的加密貨幣，並在第一季獲得了 1,400 萬加元的質押收入，整個 AUM 的有效收益率為 5%。

On the staked only portion, the yields 7.6%. The 5% effective yield is up from 4.7% in 2024. Our staking policies would allow for higher staking. We of course manage it in in our risk management as well considering in terms of how much we stake. Management fee income for Q1 of 2025 was CAD3.6 million, representing an effective yield of 1.3% on our entire AUM.

僅質押部分收益率為 7.6%。5%的實質收益率高於2024年的4.7%。我們的質押政策允許更高的質押。當然，我們也會根據我們的投入金額來進行風險管理。2025 年第一季的管理費收入為 360 萬加元，相當於我們整個 AUM 的有效收益率為 1.3%。

And investors are aware that most of our funds have a 1.9% management fee, but there are Bitcoin and Ethereum funds with zero, so the average is 1.3%. This is unchanged from 2024. The net investment result of our unrealized and realized changes in our digital assets, equity investments in digital assets, and ETPs in Q1 was CAD42.4 million positive in the quarter. This contributed to the company earning IFRS net income of CAD43 million. A large part of the result was driven by a CAD45 million reversal of our CAD124.5 million DLOM provision at December 31, 2024.

投資者都知道，我們的大多數基金的管理費為 1.9%，但比特幣和以太坊基金的管理費為零，因此平均為 1.3%。這與 2024 年相比沒有變化。我們第一季的數位資產、數位資產股權投資和 ETP 的未實現和已實現變動的淨投資結果為 4,240 萬加元。這使得該公司實現了 4,300 萬加元的 IFRS 淨收入。這一結果很大程度上是由於我們在 2024 年 12 月 31 日撤銷了 4,500 萬加元的 1.245 億加元 DLOM 撥備。

The DLOM is the discount for lack of marketability on some of our tokens that are locked up. The remaining DLOM at March 31, 2025 is CAD79.5 million which will also fully reverse back into income over time as the coins are unlocked. The DLOM provision in Q1 came down with the reduction in Solan and avalanche prices in the quarter, hence the reversal. In the non IFRS adjustment section of the MD and A, we have detailed this adjustment along with a smaller adjustment related to our Genesis loan, Bitcoin. The company did receive back 6 Bitcoin from the receiver related to our Genesis loan, which is a positive in our income.

DLOM 是我們部分被鎖定的代幣因缺乏市場性而給予的折扣。截至 2025 年 3 月 31 日，剩餘的 DLOM 為 7,950 萬加元，隨著代幣解鎖，這些 DLOM 也將隨著時間的推移完全轉回收入。第一季的 DLOM 撥備隨著 Solan 和雪崩價格的下降而下降，因此出現了逆轉。在 MD 和 A 的非 IFRS 調整部分，我們詳細說明了此調整以及與我們的 Genesis 貸款比特幣相關的較小調整。該公司確實從與我們的 Genesis 貸款相關的接收者那裡收回了 6 比特幣，這對我們的收入來說是一個積極的方面。

Stillman Digital recorded trading commissions of CAD2.9 million in Q1 2025, consistent with Q4 2024. Stillman contributed CAD1 million to our bottom line in Q1. Stillman is guiding for revenues of CAD12 to CAD16 million in 2025, while maintaining margins.

Stillman Digital 在 2025 年第一季的交易佣金為 290 萬加元，與 2024 年第四季持平。斯蒂爾曼在第一季為我們貢獻了 100 萬加元。史蒂爾曼預計 2025 年的收入將達到 1,200 萬至 1,600 萬加元，同時保持利潤率。

Reflexivity recorded revenue of CAD262,000 compared to $507,000 in Q1 of 2024. Reflexivity earns most of its revenue in the second half of the year when it hosts various events that support its core research business.

Reflexivity 的營收為 262,000 加元，而 2024 年第一季為 507,000 美元。Reflexivity 的大部分收入來自於下半年舉辦的各種支持其核心研究業務的活動。

The company is upgrading its revenue guidance from CAD227.2 million to CAD285.6 million for 2025 on the back of a positive Q1.

由於第一季業績表現良好，該公司將 2025 年的營收預期從 2.272 億加元上調至 2.856 億加元。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Paul. Now let’s turn it back to Oli, Johan, and Andrew, to talk about some additional highlights, particularly about, Beller’s product pipeline, our AUM, and net inflows, and explain that business a bit deeper as it is our most important business, or subsidiary under the DeFi Technologies umbrella.

謝謝，保羅。現在讓我們回到 Oli、Johan 和 Andrew，討論一些額外的亮點，特別是關於 Beller 的產品線、我們的 AUM 和淨流入，並更深入地解釋該業務，因為它是我們最重要的業務，或者說是 DeFi Technologies 旗下的子公司。

Right. Maybe I I should jump in here and and take that.

正確的。也許我應該跳進去並接受它。

Sure.

當然。

So what we see here is is the AM in in different products, the how we the development over time. And as you can see, we have lost a lot of new products. The last few quarters, and a lot of the new inflow is also in the new products, which is actually is over our expectations as a lot of these are the smaller cryptocurrencies. I’m not sure if we go back. Okay.

因此，我們在這裡看到的是不同產品中的 AM，以及我們如何隨著時間的推移而發展。如您所見，我們損失了許多新產品。過去幾個季度，大量新資金流入也來自新產品，這實際上超出了我們的預期，因為其中許多都是較小的加密貨幣。我不確定我們是否會回去。好的。

So I think yes. Hold on this slide for a little bit. And then, obviously, if we could see the crypto prices here, you could obviously see that the, our AUM is is, very much correlated to the market markets, obviously, but the inflow has been constant since inception of the company. And what we’ve seen is that we have a very, an investor base that are very loyal and, seem to, invest in all the new products to some extent. We can see that the same brokers, the same type of flows go in directly on the first day of listing.

所以我認為是的。暫時抓住這張幻燈片。然後，顯然，如果我們可以看到這裡的加密貨幣價格，你顯然可以看到，我們的 AUM 與市場市場密切相關，但自公司成立以來，資金流入一直保持穩定。我們看到的是，我們擁有非常忠誠的投資者群體，他們似乎在某種程度上投資了所有新產品。我們可以看到，上市第一天，同樣的券商，同樣的類型的流量直接進去。

We have over 65 products now. I think we have probably over 85 within two months. And what you can see in white here is is the inflow into these smaller coins. And, obviously, still, Solana is a big chunk of the AUM. But this also an important point here is that this this also reflects the improvement in product mix over time.

我們現在有超過 65 種產品。我認為兩個月內我們可能就會超過 85 個。這裡您可以看到白色的部分是流入這些較小硬幣的資金。顯然，Solana 仍然佔據著 AUM 的很大一部分。但這裡的一個重要觀點是，這也反映了產品組合隨時間的改善。

We started out early on with the Bitcoin and Ethereum 0, which had zero management fees. But the more products we we put out there, we have higher margins of those. There’s more staking rewards, possibility to lend for higher rates, and we have a higher management fees. Most of them are 1.9% We had some higher for some more complex products.

我們很早就開始使用比特幣和以太坊 0，它們的管理費為零。但我們推出的產品越多，利潤就越高。有更多的權益獎勵，以更高的利率借貸的可能性，而且我們有更高的管理費。大多數是1.9%，對於一些更複雜的產品，我們的利率更高。

We have we’re also listing now the leverage products in in Scandinavia, I think, within a few days. We have more basket products, active managed certificate, and so on where the management fees will be a bigger portion. For the active managed products, we’ll also have a a a two plus 20 type structure similar to a hedge fund what hedge funds use. So we will see other types of revenue occurring from from those products as well, hopefully, within quarter the third quarter. I’m not sure if someone want to want to add anything here.

我想，我們現在也會在幾天內將槓桿產品列入斯堪的納維亞半島。我們有更多的籃子產品、主動管理證書等等，其中管理費所佔的比例會更大。對於主動式管理產品，我們還將採用類似於對沖基金使用的 2+20 類型的結構。因此，我們也將看到這些產品產生其他類型的收入，希望在第三季內。我不確定是否有人想在這裡添加任何內容。

What’s obviously important point that Paul let’s say that we had actually the average AUM in q one was higher than q three last year even though we saw a large dip in the in the markets. And, yeah, with with the recent bounce of 20 over 20% for for Bitcoin, more on average for our portfolio, We’re in great shape for Q2 here, which is, kind of linear to the AM the income from this. So, yeah, I I don’t know if there’s anything for the time. I’ll go to your

顯然，保羅強調的一點很重要，儘管我們看到市場大幅下滑，但去年第一季的平均 AUM 實際上高於第三季。是的，隨著比特幣最近反彈超過 20%，我們的投資組合平均上漲幅度更大，我們第二季的狀況非常好，這與上午的收入呈線性關係。所以，是的，我不知道現在是否有任何事情。我會去你的

I I think that, you know, covers the kind of ebbs and flows specifically of the you know, obviously, the AAM is highly correlated with with the prices of crypto. We definitely see retention amongst retail and institutional users and and customers of Allure. They’re they’re definitely kind of, I would say, hodling coins over the long term. So we don’t see extreme amounts of outflows. You know, there’s been volatile periods.

我認為，你知道，這涵蓋了具體的起伏，顯然，AAM 與加密貨幣的價格高度相關。我們確實看到了 Allure 的零售和機構用戶以及客戶的留存率。我想說的是，他們肯定是長期持有貨幣。因此，我們並沒有看到大量資金流出。你知道，曾經有過動盪的時期。

But I think, you know, within the coming months, we will have, you know, out of out of any issuer of digital assets, structured products, the largest portfolio out of anyone in terms of selection for, altcoins, newer coins, indexes, as Johan mentioned, warrants, different types of certificates. We’ve also been working, behind the scenes on, you know, the creation of a an index calculation agent that will enable us to mix digital assets with equities. You know, obviously, there’s there’s kind of a large trend in the capital markets of equities that are taking on new strategies in the form of accumulating coins and people, you know, trading, you know, certificates and or structured products around those to have more effective exposure. So that will enable us to kind of offer this new plethora of, I would say, emerging structured products in the form of equities in digestible exchange traded product products to our clienteles in in existing European markets and and markets that we’re expanding into aggressively.

但我認為，你知道，在未來幾個月內，我們將擁有任何數位資產發行者中最大的投資組合，結構化產品，包括山寨幣、新幣、指數，正如約翰所提到的，認股權證，不同類型的證書。我們也一直在幕後努力創建一個指數計算代理，使我們能夠將數位資產與股票混合。你知道，顯然，股票資本市場中存在著一種大趨勢，即採取新策略，即累積貨幣和人員，你知道，交易證書和/或圍繞這些結構化產品，以獲得更有效的曝光。因此，這將使我們能夠以可消化的交易所交易產品中的股票形式向現有歐洲市場和我們正在積極擴張的市場中的客戶提供大量新興的結構性產品。

Yeah. And maybe also should emphasize this this chart we have up right right now. I think a lot of people investors have heard it before, but it’s worth reiterating that the AUM represent where it’s taking money. We have no month within this period or historically, since inception with net outflows. We have separate days without net outflows, but not on a weekly or monthly basis.

是的。也許也應該強調我們現在看到的這張圖表。我想很多投資者以前都聽過這個概念，但值得重申的是，AUM 代表著資金的流向。從歷史上看，自成立以來，這段期間內沒有出現任何一個月的淨流出。我們有單獨的沒有淨流出的日子，但沒有每週或每月的情況。

I have also data from this from ten years back from starting XBT in 2015. And on a daily series, we see the same thing that the investors should tend to be long term, very few swing traders or short term traders. And it’s used in the long term savings and represent where you’re sticking money. And we see this pattern continue and even strengthen, when looking at, daily, data.

我也有 2015 年開始 XBT 以來十年前的數據。從每日數據來看，我們看到同樣的情況：投資人應該傾向於長期投資，很少有波段交易者或短期交易者。它用於長期儲蓄並代表您將錢放在哪裡。從每日數據來看，我們發現這種模式仍在持續，甚至加強。

Right. Let’s, move into, some of Valor’s global expansion and strategic market development efforts. Yohan and and Andrew, if you guys wanna tackle those.

正確的。讓我們來了解一下 Valor 的一些全球擴張和策略市場開發工作。Yohan 和 Andrew，如果你們想解決這些問題。

Sure. Maybe I’ll speak up here. Obviously, strategically, we are very strong in Europe and The Nordics. And as we continue to reinforce our marketing and communications and market access processes in these regions. We’re also looking strategically in the regions where our technology, our vertical integration, and the fact that we are very effective at providing regulated access to crypto and digital assets is something that is actually in high demand in a lot of regions that are looking to expand the access to crypto and digital assets.

當然。也許我應該在這裡說出來。顯然，從戰略上講，我們在歐洲和北歐地區非常強大。我們將繼續加強在這些地區的營銷、溝通和市場准入流程。我們也在策略性地尋找那些我們的技術、垂直整合以及我們在提供加密和數位資產的受監管存取方面非常有效的地區，而這些實際上在許多希望擴大加密和數位資產存取權限的地區都有很高的需求。

Some of those regions being The Middle East, we have been having ongoing discussions in The UAE, in Qatar, in Bahrain, and other jurisdictions. We have been having very advanced discussions with East Africa, which is probably one of the primary hubs of expansion and use of digital assets globally. So we have the agreement that has been announced with the Nairobi Securities Exchange, which is a traditional securities exchange, which is seeking to adopt and expand into the digital asset space. And there in particular, we are also working on building a digital assets exchange to be known as a Kenya digital exchange and partnership. We have significant outreach into the LatAm region and in particular, Southeast Asia, specifically Singapore.

其中一些地區是中東，我們一直在阿聯酋、卡達、巴林和其他司法管轄區進行討論。我們一直在與東非進行非常深入的討論，東非可能是全球數位資產擴張和使用的主要中心之一。因此，我們宣布與內羅畢證券交易所達成協議，該交易所是一家傳統證券交易所，正在尋求採用和擴展到數位資產領域。特別是，我們也致力於建立一個數位資產交易所，稱為肯亞數位交易所和合作夥伴關係。我們在拉丁美洲地區，特別是東南亞，尤其是新加坡有著廣泛的影響力。

People have to understand that a lot of what we’re doing is completely groundbreaking. So it actually involves interaction with regulators, local legal support, and in some instances, actually contributing to regulatory frameworks with regards to virtual assets. It is oftentimes slow. It is frequently unpredictable, but we advance inexorably towards listing our products in different markets.

人們必須明白，我們所做的很多事情都是開創性的。因此，它實際上涉及與監管機構的互動、當地法律支持，在某些情況下，實際上涉及對虛擬資產監管框架的貢獻。它常常很慢。這通常是不可預測的，但我們始終堅定地朝著在不同的市場推出我們的產品的方向前進。

Yeah, I think one important thing to also note, specifically in terms of, moving into these markets, whether it be Singapore, Africa, the five or six jurisdictions we're targeting in the UAE, five or six others in in Asia, Southeast Asia, is that were market first entrance. So, we are working hand holding, the regulators on how to, structure, basically these offerings, we, it helps, thanks to Johan that we have, the longest track record of operating, digital assets on regulated stock exchanges.

是的，我認為還有一件重要的事情需要注意，特別是在進入這些市場方面，無論是新加坡、非洲、阿聯酋的五、六個司法管轄區，還是亞洲、東南亞的其他五、六個司法管轄區，這些都是我們首先進入的市場。因此，我們正在與監管機構攜手合作，研究如何建立這些產品，這很有幫助，感謝 Johan，我們在受監管的證券交易所經營數位資產的記錄最為悠久。

And a lot of these countries, I think specific to, for instance, take Nairobi, for example, there's been sovereign nations that are adopting or putting in place legislation to acquire cryptocurrencies and for pension funds, sovereign wealth funds. Government funds in these developing nations, they don't want to get left out. They want baskets of cryptocurrencies, but they don't want to buy it on a foreign cryptocurrency exchange. They want to buy it through their regulated stock exchange, and that gives us kind of an unparalleled advantage in going into these jurisdictions where, we want to be the first. And will be the first to operate within these jurisdictions and dominate the market.

我認為，其中許多國家，具體到內羅畢，都有主權國家正在製定或實施立法來獲取加密貨幣以及退休基金和主權財富基金。這些發展中國家的政府資金，他們不想被排除在外。他們想要一籃子加密貨幣，但不想在國外加密貨幣交易所購買。他們希望透過受監管的證券交易所購買它，這為我們進入這些司法管轄區提供了無與倫比的優勢，我們希望成為第一個進入這些司法管轄區的公司。並將率先在這些管轄範圍內開展業務並主導市場。

Ready, we'll move on from there, just discuss that, let's move into, touch a little bit on Stillman digital and DeFi alpha.

準備好了，我們將從那裡繼續，只是討論一下，讓我們進入 Stillman digital 和 DeFi alpha。

Yeah, I mean, I can take this, I think, and Paul chime in in respective to the Stillman financial outlook, but I know the Q125 forecast was small due to the timing of the acquisition, is that correct?

是的，我的意思是，我認為我可以接受這一點，保羅也對斯蒂爾曼的財務前景發表了看法，但我知道由於收購時機的原因，Q125 的預測較小，對嗎？

We acquired them in, October of 2024. It just, they ramp up more in the second half of the year.

我們於 2024 年 10 月收購了它們。只是，他們在下半年會加大力度。

So. Yeah, it's a, it's a very robust business, lean and mean continues to exceed our expectations and I think, over the next, over the coming quarters will be a significant contributor to our bottom line, along with the enablement of trading technology to be utilized, specifically within operations such as DeFi Alpha and Vlore.

所以。是的，這是一項非常強勁的業務，精益求精的經營理念不斷超出我們的預期，我認為，在接下來的幾個季度裡，這將對我們的盈利產生重大貢獻，同時還將推動交易技術的運用，特別是在 DeFi Alpha 和 Vlore 等業務中。

Sorry, go ahead.

抱歉，請繼續。

Oh, I just wanted to add that with regards to Stoneman Digital too, with this explosion in growth and stablecoin adoption globally, what we’re finding is companies are actually coming to us. Any brokerages, digital asset platforms, any platforms that are looking to provide merchant access to stablecoins or crypto to enable payment by a stablecoin or crypto. They’re coming to us. They’re looking at the Stillman platform, and indeed, the Stillman team is incredibly responsive. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the degree of interest in what they have to offer and the size of counterparties that are interested in engaging with Stoneman and using their services.

哦，我只是想補充一點，關於 Stoneman Digital，隨著全球範圍內穩定幣的爆炸式增長和採用，我們發現公司實際上正在向我們尋求幫助。任何經紀公司、數位資產平台以及任何希望為商家提供穩定幣或加密貨幣存取權限以便透過穩定幣或加密貨幣進行支付的平台。他們正在向我們走來。他們正在關注 Stillman 平台，事實上，Stillman 團隊的反應非常迅速。令我感到驚訝的是，他們所提供的產品受到如此多的關注，並且有如此多的交易對手有興趣與 Stoneman 合作並使用他們的服務。

Great, thanks Andrew. And then Johan, could you touch on some of the progress for for DeFi alpha and then and how that's shaping out for the rest of the year?

太好了，謝謝安德魯。然後 Johan，您能否談談 DeFi alpha 的一些進展以及今年剩餘時間的進展？

Yeah. For sure. Maybe for context for new listeners, I should also reiterate a little bit what we do in the alpha. So it's basically we, we're on our balance sheet, we hold quite a lot of different digital assets and fiat assets, obviously, and we're as a part of starting with a thresher function to optimize the earnings and the monetization of our full balance sheet. We last year started the Alpha as a more focused effort to do trades that are not typically within our treasury or optimization strategies that are typically more. Staff are the type of basis trading arbitrage, lending, staking, and so forth, while if Alpha looks at more in beginning opportunistically at large trade, distressed ones, and other trade. With foundations, with funds, and with other counterparties within the ecosystem where we have a unique position given our platform, our vertical integration for our businesses and the assets on our balance sheet where we actually without market risk are pursuing these trades. Where we did over $100 million US dollars last year and we have just recent announced as we said earlier, the first $22 million dollar revenue generating trade for the year, but also during the last year from our last fall, our title has strengthened significantly. Especially now with the market coming back up, we are, even more optimistic than on the last call regarding the next few trades in the near future, but also for the pipeline for the rest of the year.

是的。一定。也許為了給新聽眾背景訊息，我還應該重申我們在 alpha 版本中所做的事情。所以基本上，在我們的資產負債表上，我們持有相當多不同的數位資產和法定資產，顯然，我們正從脫粒機功能開始，以優化收益和整個資產負債表的貨幣化。去年，我們啟動了 Alpha 計劃，更加集中精力進行通常不在我們的財務範圍內的交易或通常更為優化的策略。員工是基礎交易套利、借貸、質押等的類型，而如果 Alpha 更多地考慮從大額交易、不良交易和其他交易開始機會主義。透過與基金會、基金以及生態系統內的其他交易對手合作，我們憑藉我們的平台、業務的垂直整合以及資產負債表上的資產擁有獨特的地位，實際上我們在進行這些交易時沒有市場風險。去年我們的營業額超過 1 億美元，而且正如我們之前所說，我們剛剛宣布了今年第一筆 2200 萬美元的創收交易，而且從去年秋天開始，我們的頭銜得到了顯著加強。尤其是現在市場正在回暖，我們對近期的幾筆交易比上次更加樂觀，對今年剩餘時間的銷售管道也是如此。

So it's from from had been an optimistic part of treasury, it's a self. Driving business at this point where we build infrastructure to institutionalize these earnings as well.

因此，它從一開始就是國庫的一個樂觀部分，它是一個自我。在推動業務發展的階段，我們建構了基礎設施，以使這些收益制度化。

And we found a great way to actually go out and offer our services and trades and balance sheet to counterparties where we can do these trades. And it's, yeah, been, much more optimistic, start with the year than than I actually thought that the last call here.

我們找到了一個很好的方法，可以真正向交易對手提供我們的服務、交易和資產負債表。是的，從今年開始，情況就比我上次預測的要樂觀得多。

Yeah, I'm not sure really if there's anything more here to, it's on the for the full year forecast, we haven't really a big part of the increase in the full year forecast is the higher market now, which actually organically give our base cash flow becomes much stronger. So that's a big part of that. A little part of that is also the alpha that we have actually added quite a few, very concrete deals to our pipeline here in the alpha, but yeah. That’s the Excellent. Essence.

是的，我不確定這裡是否還有更多內容，這是關於全年預測的，我們全年預測的成長很大一部分是因為現在市場更高，這實際上有機地使我們的基本現金流變得更加強勁。這是其中很重要的一部分。其中一小部分也是 alpha 版本，我們實際上已經在 alpha 版本中為我們的管道添加了不少非常具體的交易，是的。這真是太棒了。本質。

And then. I think Go ahead.

進而。我認為繼續吧。

Yeah, no, I was just going to touch on the fi because we often, get asked how to project out the specific, revenue numbers and logistics. I think it took us, 33 years to feel comfortable or even more so 4 years to start projecting. A financial forecast for velour as we gathered, specific information on inflows, outflows, specific product launches. There was a bunch of technicalities around there.

是的，不，我只是想談談財務，因為我們經常被問到如何預測特定的收入數字和物流。我認為我們花了 33 年的時間才感到滿意，甚至花了 4 年多的時間才開始進行規劃。我們收集了有關絲絨的財務預測，包括流入、流出和特定產品發布的具體資訊。那裡有一堆技術細節。

I think we're nine or ten months in if that with DeFi Alpha, and I feel confident that, within within the coming months we will be able to, project with, a high level of certainty what we're expecting. As we've seen and sequenced, trading data patterns associated with some of the trading, strategies kind of employed, so kind of going forward, investors, shareholders will be able to, kind of as we adequate adequately predict, hopefully also forecast specific numbers that we're projecting for the alpha business unit.

我認為 DeFi Alpha 的推出已經持續了九到十個月，我相信，在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將能夠高度確定地預測我們的預期。正如我們所看到和排序的，交易資料模式與某些交易、策略有關，因此，展望未來，投資者、股東將能夠像我們充分預測的那樣，希望也能預測我們為 alpha 業務部門預測的具體數字。

Great. Moving on, Ollie, could you quickly touch on, how we plan to utilize and integrate Neuronomics for the rest of the year and sort of touch on product pipeline and integrating that into our IP infrastructure?

偉大的。接下來，奧利，您能否快速談談我們計劃如何在今年剩餘時間利用和整合 Neuronomics，以及如何觸及產品線並將其整合到我們的 IP 基礎設施中？

Yeah, I mean, I've touched on it, specifically, Defi had acquired an initial stake in in Neuronomics, a few years ago. We've built a relationship with the team, world class team of artificial intelligence engineers, that have really, spent the better part of the last decade looking at, artificial intelligence kind of, before it was cool. To figure out how to manage and optimize equities, due to the nature of data points available within the digital asset sector, they thought it was a much more market ready approach for them. One of the key, components of this acquisition is a FIMA license, which allows us to distribute, funds, and products, within Switzerland and within, fund frameworks that are comfortable with the Swiss fund regulatory landscape, which is one of the largest in the world, so we are extremely excited to kind of target these, AI specific digital asset products and funds, to, Swiss-based and Swiss, funds that invest in in Swiss structures, which is one of the, largest fund fund markets in the world. So we're extremely excited about that and I think as institutional investors. Develop cryptocurrency portfolios, similar kind of akin to, some five-six years ago, every fund had to have some sort of ESG mandate of, 5%,-10% of their assets into ESG assets, I think, fund managers will be scared. Not to have, artificial intelligence, enabled, products capturing returns for them, and, we will, we are in the process of updating the Neuronomics website with, the performance of their funds to date which are which are extremely well performing.

是的，我的意思是，我已經提到過這一點，具體來說，幾年前 Defi 已經收購了 Neuronomics 的初始股份。我們與世界一流的人工智慧工程師團隊建立了良好的關係，他們在過去十年的大部分時間裡都在研究人工智慧，直到它變得流行起來。為了弄清楚如何管理和優化股票，由於數位資產領域可用數據點的性質，他們認為這對他們來說是一種更適合市場的方法。此次收購的關鍵要素之一是 FIMA 許可證，該許可證使我們能夠在瑞士境內以及符合瑞士基金監管環境的基金框架內分銷基金和產品，瑞士是世界上最大的基金監管環境之一，因此我們非常高興能夠將這些 AI 特定的數位資產產品和基金定位到瑞士的基金和投資於瑞士結構的基金，瑞士是世界上最大的基金市場之一。因此，作為機構投資者，我們對此感到非常興奮。發展加密貨幣投資組合，類似於五、六年前，每個基金都必須有某種 ESG 授權，將其資產的 5% 到 10% 投入 ESG 資產，我認為，基金經理人會感到害怕。我們不會讓人工智慧產品為他們帶來回報，我們正在更新 Neuronomics 網站，更新迄今為止其基金的表現，這些基金的表現非常出色。

Yeah I could add also that they have a number of AI driven strategies that where we can engineer the profiles that our clients are asking for. So we will launch a few pure alpha type strategies, but also some long class overlay portfolios and also some overlay portfolios for investors who are already long crypto and this will be driven out of the signals and the . AI IP we have here and then we will distribute it through active demand certificates, hedge funds and mutual funds also probably through useless funds within Europe, depending on how we skew them a bit. So, and this is first step is all crypto, but these also show extremely well good results in in the actual trading for equity markets. So what we see.

是的，我還可以補充一點，他們有許多人工智慧驅動的策略，我們可以設計客戶所要求的個人資料。因此，我們將推出一些純 alpha 類型的策略，同時也會推出一些多頭類覆蓋投資組合，以及一些針對已經持有多頭加密貨幣的投資者的覆蓋投資組合，這些投資組合將被排除在信號和。我們在這裡擁有人工智慧智慧財產權，然後我們將透過主動需求證書、對沖基金和共同基金來分配它，也可能透過歐洲境內的無用基金來分配它，這取決於我們如何傾斜它們。所以，這是第一步，全部都是加密，但這些在股票市場的實際交易中也顯示出非常好的結果。所以我們看到。

A continuation long term within other asset classes and also maybe also term following multi-asset clause type products.

其他資產類別的長期延續，也可能是多元資產條款類型產品的期限延續。

And and finally Oli, could you speak on progress regarding SolFiTech and CoreFi?

最後，Oli，您能談談 SolFiTech 和 CoreFi 的進展嗎？

Yeah, for sure. As we, went through, I mean what was a four year trajectory with the SEC, a DeFi, and coming out of coming out of it at the end. We've been actively kind of working with lawyers to optimize the trajectory and launch of, both companies, coreFi and obviously thelona ecosystem are both growing and maturing, very well, and we will have, updated guidance on those go to, market strategies that would That are that are definitely more efficient, given the new stance of digital assets that the SEC has embraced. And is just kind of, coming to light. So as opposed to, when these strategies were launched, some six months ago, taking approaches, that would have, potentially hindered the success and ability for them to reach, their kind of pinnacle market capitalizations and exposure to international capital markets. We now have adequate plans to launch these vehicles.

是的，當然。正如我們所經歷的，我的意思是，與 SEC、DeFi 一起走過的四年軌跡，以及最終的方向。我們一直在積極與律師合作，以優化兩家公司的發展軌跡和發布，coreFi 和 thelona 生態系統顯然都在不斷發展和成熟，我們將對這些市場策略提供更新的指導，考慮到美國證券交易委員會對數位資產的新立場，這些策略肯定會更有效率。並且逐漸顯露出來。因此，與六個月前推出這些策略時採取的方法相反，這些方法可能會阻礙它們取得成功，並阻礙它們達到巔峰市值和進入國際資本市場的能力。我們現在有充分的計劃來推出這些飛行器。

Actually, we'll now go into questions from analysts. I have a list of questions prepared, first from Mike Rondahl at Northland, I think this is for Johan.

實際上，我們現在來回答分析師的問題。我準備了一份問題清單，首先是來自 Northland 的 Mike Rondahl 的問題，我想這是問 Johan 的。

Can you detail what areas of business drove your 2025 guidance higher?

您能否詳細說明哪些業務領域推動了 2025 年的預期提升？

Yeah, for sure.

是的，當然。

Thank you for the question. So it is, yes, two components basically as two, the main drivers of the base cash flow from our ETPs. That's a major part, made half our revenues last year. That's totally dependent on obviously the levels of our market and our in and outflows. And it's just the market coming up back over 20% have obviously compared with Q1, especially and the Q1, markets and our AM is now at a significantly higher pace.

謝謝你的提問。是的，基本上有兩個組成部分，它們是我們 ETP 基本現金流的主要動力。這是很重要的一部分，佔了我們去年收入的一半。這顯然完全取決於我們的市場水準以及我們的資金流入和流出。與第一季相比，市場明顯回升了 20% 以上，尤其是第一季度，市場和我們的 AM 現在的成長速度明顯加快。

So we basically every day earn more than I would say 25% more on on the all the staking revenue, lending revenue. Management fees and so forth. So that's not just informed us to conservatively shift our monthly for our forecast for the year for the market, which is basically a big part of our income, like for a broker brokerage firm where they take a percentage in commission. So that's a big part of this. And the other part which where we have seen. Where we did a small upward shift in the forecast was on the Defi alpha, and that's just because the one trade we actually did execute now was not even in our pipeline before and we've seen quite a few other trades becoming, yeah, very close in time, hopefully. So we have a much more much more insight in when and and and how much. To what value we can do these trades than we had a month ago. So that's a major shift for the DeFi alpha. But I would say, so that's one part, the ha's one part, the other big part is the higher AM.

因此，我們基本上每天從所有質押收入和借貸收入中獲得的收入都會超過 25%。管理費等等。因此，這不僅告訴我們要保守地調整我們對全年市場的月度預測，這基本上是我們收入的很大一部分，就像經紀公司收取一定比例的佣金一樣。這是其中很重要的一部分。另一部分我們已經看到了。我們對 Defi alpha 的預測進行了小幅上調，這只是因為我們現在實際執行的一筆交易以前甚至不在我們的計劃中，而且我們已經看到很多其他交易正在變得非常接近，是的，希望如此。因此，我們對時間、時間和數量有了更深入的了解。與一個月前相比，我們進行這些交易的價值是多少。這對 DeFi alpha 來說是一個重大轉變。但我想說，這是一部分，ha 是一部分，另一個重要部分是更高的 AM。

If obviously if the market goes down here, the base in flow from our monetization of our balance sheet will go down with it, but Our forecast for the year has shifted up with the market since the end of the year, but it's obviously was much lower, not only for Bitcoin, but for all our assets. On average, I think for our portfolio, it was a much higher shift upwards in our AM market market prices and which is actually what half of our revenue stems from.

如果市場明顯下跌，我們資產負債表貨幣化的流量基礎也會隨之下降，但自年底以來，我們對今年的預測已經隨著市場而上調，但顯然要低得多，不僅是比特幣，我們所有的資產都是如此。平均而言，我認為對於我們的投資組合而言，AM 市場價格的上漲幅度要大得多，而這實際上是我們一半收入的來源。

So, yeah, that's the simple answer.

是的，這是簡單的答案。

Then Andrew, could you talk about new geographies for ETPs, and any rough timing as it relates to any of the specific regions?

那麼安德魯，您能談談 ETP 的新地理位置，以及與任何特定區域相關的大致時間嗎？

Yeah, thank you very much for the question.

是的，非常感謝您的提問。

I would say that, the ones that are, most mature in the process are East Africa, because we've been able to work, at the highest levels of government at the regulatory framework, and the wonderful team in Vellore has been very effective in assigning, determining the plumbing that is needed to get this done. But close, in that race for listings, you also have Southeast Asia, we're in continued discussions in Singapore, continued discussions in, some of the Gulf Coast countries, and increasingly we're looking at Latin. Now, I have to, I, I'm trained as a financial risk manager, so I have to caveat all of this with everything we're doing, as Ollie, our CEO mentioned, is basically tip of the spear market access. That means we are at the intersection of regulatory approval and the actual. Products that we have and know have been well accepted throughout Europe. So at any one time, it is not exclusively the domain of valor to determine the timing of the entry into a particular market, but sometimes it depends on when a capital market authority decides to have their sitting to review instruments. What I can personally attest to is that we don't deal at the government bureaucracy level. We are dealing at the highest level, director general level, ministry level in order to ensure that they have a clear understanding of what we want to do, that our objective is to get listed and to get listed in a timely manner so that their populations will have access to our instruments and we can grow shareholder value.

我想說，在這過程中最成熟的是東非，因為我們已經能夠在監管框架內與政府最高層開展工作，而且韋洛爾的優秀團隊在分配和確定完成這項工作所需的管道方面非常有效。但接近的是，在上市競爭中，還有東南亞，我們正在繼續討論新加坡，繼續討論一些墨西哥灣沿岸國家，我們正在越來越多地關注拉丁美洲。現在，我必須，我接受過金融風險管理師的培訓，所以我必須對我們所做的一切提出警告，正如我們的執行長奧利所提到的那樣，這基本上是先鋒市場准入。這意味著我們正處於監管批准和實際情況的交叉點。我們擁有和了解的產品已在整個歐洲廣泛認可。因此，在任何時候，確定進入特定市場的時機並不完全取決於勇氣，有時還取決於資本市場主管機關何時決定召開會議審查工具。我個人可以證明的是，我們並不在政府官僚層級上進行交易。我們正在與最高級別、局長級別、部會級別進行溝通，以確保他們清楚地了解我們想要做什麼，我們的目標是上市，並及時上市，以便他們的民眾能夠使用我們的工具，我們能夠增加股東價值。

And I also think it's important to touch on the time it takes us to establish and list these products in these specific regions is by nature a moat in itself. Time is acting as a moat once we have Valor's instruments listed there.

而且我認為有必要指出，我們在這些特定地區建立和列出這些產品所花費的時間本身就是一種護城河。一旦我們將 Valor 的儀器列在那裡，時間就成為護城河。

You're absolutely correct. This requires a significant investment in personal, relationships, regulatory relationships, and as you've accurately mentioned, Curtis, just time. And we are nurturing these in a number of jurisdictions. I would that we will start to see significant progress obviously through this fiscal year, but then we're also going to see somewhat of a cascading effect because every time we hit a new market, we get better, we get more efficient, we know who to speak to, and we're more accurate in our offering.

你完全正確。這需要在個人、關係、監管關係方面進行大量投資，而且正如柯蒂斯您準確提到的那樣，還需要時間。我們正在多個司法管轄區培育這些制度。我希望我們能在本財年看到顯著的進展，同時我們也將看到某種連鎖反應，因為每次我們進入一個新市場，我們都會變得更好，更高效，知道該與誰溝通，我們提供的產品也更準確。

Thank you, Andrew. A question from Mark Palmer at benchmark. What do you see as the tangible benefits of DeFi technologies uplifting to the NASDAQ in terms of cost of capital and other metrics, like Ollie can answer that one.

謝謝你，安德魯。馬克·帕爾默在基準測試中提出了一個問題。您認為 DeFi 技術在資本成本和其他指標方面為納斯達克帶來哪些實際好處，Ollie 可以回答這個問題。

Cost of capital, I mean, in terms of, financing, I think, we're still a few days in, but, I would assume that, as people recognize the uniqueness of DeFi's business compared to, I would say kind of leveraged over leveraged.

我的意思是，就融資而言，我認為我們還需要幾天的時間，但我認為，隨著人們認識到 DeFi 業務的獨特性，我會說這是一種槓桿化的業務。

Plays to acquire Bitcoin, we will see kind of a unique shareholder base form around our equity as we continue to execute as we have and Obviously, with more enhanced liquidity, visibility, access to larger institutions, you see kind of a more efficient cost of capital to be utilized for, potential acquisitions and or other strategies that we might have up our sleeves.

透過收購比特幣，我們將看到一種獨特的股東基礎圍繞著我們的股權形成，因為我們將繼續執行我們的做法，顯然，隨著流動性、可見度的增強，以及對更大機構的訪問，你會看到一種更有效的資本成本利用方式，潛在的收購或我們可能掌握的其他策略。

Did I miss anything in that in that question, Curtis, cause I'm just typing some. Yeah.

柯蒂斯，我在這個問題中是否遺漏了什麼，因為我只是輸入了一些內容。是的。

Yeah. I don't think so. I think you covered it pretty well and we'll we'll speak to Mark after if he has any clarifying questions. Another question from Mark and this one is for Paul. What per just to, I know you covered it earlier, but just to refresh, what percentage of the Valor's AUM did the company take during Q1 2025? And how does that percentage compare with what was staked in Q4 of 2024 and in prior quarters?

是的。我不這麼認為。我認為您已經講得很好了，如果馬克有任何需要澄清的問題，我們會和他談談。馬克提出了另一個問題，這個問題是問保羅的。我知道您之前已經提到過，但只是想提醒一下，2025 年第一季該公司佔據了 Valor 資產管理規模的百分之多少？那麼，該百分比與 2024 年第四季和前幾季的質押百分比相比如何？

It's about consistent, so we've traditionally staked in this 66% to 70% range.

這是一致的，因此我們傳統上將投資額控制在 66% 到 70% 的範圍內。

Okay.

好的。

And then Michael questions from Michael Kim at Zax.

然後 Michael 向 Zax 的 Michael Kim 提問。

Can you provide an update on your plans to launch ETFs here in the US via the partnership with Professional Capital Management? And could you flesh out the strategy in terms of which products you plan to bring to market, how you plan to position your offerings relative to other players in the market? Ali, can you tackle that one?

您能否介紹一下透過與專業資本管理公司合作在美國推出 ETF 的計劃的最新進展？您能否詳細說明您計劃向市場推出哪些產品，以及您計劃如何定位您的產品相對於市場上其他參與者的產品？阿里，你能解決這個問題嗎？

Sorry, I'm just trying to answer these questions, Curtis. What was, this.

抱歉，我只是想回答這些問題，柯蒂斯。這是啥。

Was, I guess, do a refresher on the plans to launch ETFs here in the US with professional capital management, where that stands or what the thinking behind that is and.

我想，請重新回顧一下在美國推出 ETF 並由專業資本管理的計劃，看看該計劃的現狀如何，或者背後的想法是什麼。

Yeah, I mean the thinking behind that was, we have a relationship with, professional capital management and assessing the potential viability of that entrance into the US is something we're still considering. Obviously the market dynamics have have changed formidably since we've launched that, we've seen a lot of competitors of ours make the mistake of trying to enter the US market, and we do not want to compete with, BlackRock, Fidelity, Vane, you know.

是的，我的意思是，背後的想法是，我們與專業資本管理公司有合作關係，我們仍在考慮評估進入美國市場的潛在可行性。顯然，自從我們推出這款產品以來，市場動態已經發生了巨大的變化，我們看到許多競爭對手都犯了試圖進入美國市場的錯誤，我們不想與貝萊德、富達、Vane 等公司競爭。

Established US financial institutions who have all the retail and institutional reach for their products, so we're still assessing North America, specifically the US as a market, we're finding, we're just making sure that we do that. Acutely so that when we do launch things we have a specific market niche, that is in competing against, multi $100 billion companies, and waste a bunch of money, which nearly killed if not killed, some of the competing ETP markets which, I can't complain about.

成熟的美國金融機構擁有其產品的所有零售和機構影響力，因此我們仍在評估北美，特別是美國市場，我們發現，我們只是確保我們做到這一點。確切地說，當我們推出新產品時，我們有一個特定的市場利基，那就是與價值 1000 億美元的公司競爭，並浪費了大量的資金，這幾乎摧毀了一些競爭的 ETP 市場，對此我沒有什麼可抱怨的。

And then another question for Michael, in terms of capital management, can you provide an update on your current thinking around returning excess capital to shareholders via share repurchases repurchases and or potentially instituting a dividend at some point?

然後我要問邁克爾的另一個問題，在資本管理方面，您能否提供一下您目前的想法，即透過股票回購將過剩資本返還給股東，或者在某個時候可能設立股息？

Yeah, I mean, we have actively utilized our, NCIB I'm not sure what the US share share buyback program, continuously, when we believe our share price is undervalued and we may do so opportunistically, with our cash and shares. And obviously our, company has gone, transitioned, from, being, kind of having, debt on our balance sheet. Having not raised any institutional capital, clearing that debt, having, a very sizable cash treasury now, extremely profitable. So the natural transition of a company of our nature is, once we reach a comfortable, revenue milestone, the board. Would, consider dividends, if it made sense for a company of our nature. Keep in mind we are still a growth company, so we're very early in our kind of trajectory and when you, typically look at high growth tech companies, they're not paying dividends immediately, but that's not. Not to say that we wouldn't rule it out in the future when we have excess cash flow, and, happy shareholders, and we can redistribute some of that to, shareholders. It's something, the board can consider when the time is right. But I think we have, before that, at least a few quarters to grow and And our focus is on making this as an an efficient cash engine and and really the most profitable, crypto company listed on the public stock exchange, which which I think we have a very good opportunity of doing.

是的，我的意思是，當我們認為我們的股價被低估時，我們一直在積極利用我們的 NCIB 美國股票回購計劃，我們可能會利用我們的現金和股票趁機這麼做。顯然，我們公司已經從資產負債表上的債務狀態轉變了。在沒有籌集任何機構資本的情況下清償了債務，現在擁有非常可觀的現金儲備，利潤極高。因此，對於我們這種性質的公司來說，一旦達到舒適的收入里程碑，董事會就會自然而然地轉變。如果對我們這種性質的公司來說有意義的話，我們會考慮分紅。請記住，我們仍然是一家成長型公司，因此我們處於發展軌蹟的早期階段，當你看到高成長科技公司時，通常會發現它們不會立即支付股息，但事實並非如此。並不是說，當我們擁有過剩的現金流，股東滿意時，我們不會排除這種可能性，我們可以將其中的一部分重新分配給股東。董事會可以在適當的時候考慮此事。但我認為，在此之前，我們至少還有幾個季度的時間來成長，我們的重點是使其成為一個高效的現金引擎，並且真正成為最賺錢的公開證券交易所上市的加密貨幣公司，我認為我們有很好的機會做到這一點。

Yeah, I think we see ourselves as a high growth company and we have no problem to profitable deploy funds. So, even though we have a really high cash flow and they make good money here, we have high returns. On our, free cash and the cash flow on the balance sheet, both in different trading strategies, but also in, things we're building. We, we're not, we don't invest in long term, on.

是的，我認為我們將自己視為一家高成長公司，我們在獲利部署資金方面沒有任何問題。因此，儘管我們的現金流很高，而且他們在這裡賺了很多錢，但我們的回報也很高。在我們的自由現金和資產負債表上的現金流中，既包括不同的交易策略，也包括我們正在建立的東西。我們，我們不是，我們不進行長期投資。

Very unclear projects. We have some very, we know exactly how to deploy the funds. We are on a very high return on our funds internally. We haven't seen any better way to invest our money or pay it back. Because we serve as a high gross company and we have a great pipeline of highly profitable products and strategies to deploy our funds that. So we at this and also I would say one part of our funds is also the working capital for our trading. And, liquidity market making business where we earn a lot of money on all the flow in and out of our products. So, which we still which is still a field that's growing with our growing portfolio and so forth. So we have several, highly profitable ways of deploying the capital and it's, I think it's for, yeah, like Olivia's. Mention it it's very early for us to consider probably dividends at this point.

項目非常不明確。我們非常清楚如何部署這些資金。我們的內部資金報酬率非常高。我們還沒有看到任何更好的方式來投資或償還我們的錢。因為我們是一家高毛利公司，我們擁有大量高利潤的產品和策略來部署我們的資金。因此，我想說，我們的資金的一部分也是我們交易的營運資金。而且，透過流動性做市業務，我們從所有產品的流入和流出中賺取了大量的錢。因此，隨著我們的投資組合不斷成長，這仍然是一個不斷發展的領域。因此，我們有幾種非常有利可圖的方式來部署資本，我認為這對奧莉維亞很有幫助。需要指出的是，現在考慮股息還為時過早。

Just a quick one for me that we did subsequent to quarter end buy back 5,005,000 shares at a cost of CAD2.1 million. So the company returned just over CAD2 million to its shareholders. Subsequent quarter ends disclosed in the NBA.

我簡單介紹一下，我們在季度末回購了 5,005,000 股，成本為 210 萬加元。因此，該公司向股東返還了200多萬加幣。NBA 隨後公佈季度末數據。

Thanks, Paul. Ollie and Johan, in addition to this, here's aim. Can you speak to where you see Defi technologies in 2 to 3 years? What are the key initiatives, markets, or innovations that you believe will shape the company's future trajectory?

謝謝，保羅。奧利和約翰，除此之外，還有目標。您能談談您認為 2 到 3 年後 Defi 技術會發展到什麼程度嗎？您認為哪些關鍵措施、市場或創新將影響公司的未來發展軌跡？

Yeah, I think, going back, it feels like 10 years ago, but it wasn't so far long ago when FTX and these kind of occurrences happened, we, took the initiative to build our own, internal technology, trading engines, custody, fully vertically integrated, technology company, we see, I think the first, the first thing I told Yohan when I met him was, he had a single product called XPT Provider, the world's first Bitcoin ETF, and I said, why don't we do this for thousands of products and derivatives and warrants and all types of products, so. I want, Defi by way of Vellore and its other pertinent subsidiaries to be one of the largest operators of products. Derivatives in emerging niche markets where we, like the Nordics entirely dominate the space and have first mover advantage and in doing so acquire, incubate and build trading technologies that complement all of our unique businesses. Keep in mind, DeFi alpha came out of an idea, Johann had, a few months ago.

是的，我想，回想起來，感覺就像是 10 年前的事了，但 FTX 和這類事件發生的時間並不長，我們主動建立了自己的內部技術、交易引擎、託管、完全垂直整合的技術公司，我們看到，我認為第一件事，我見到 Yohan 時告訴他的第一件事是，他有一款名為 XPT Provider 的單一產品，這是世界上一個比特幣ETF，我說，為什麼我們不對數千種產品、衍生性商品、認股權證和所有類型的產品都這樣做呢？我希望 Defi 透過 Vellore 及其其他相關子公司成為最大的產品營運商之一。在新興利基市場的衍生性商品方面，我們與北歐國家一樣，完全佔據主導地位，擁有先發優勢，並在此過程中收購、孵化和構建了與我們所有獨特業務相輔相成的交易技術。請記住，DeFi alpha 是幾個月前 Johann 的一個想法誕生的。

And now it's, making, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars a year. So, as we are, entrepreneurs at our core, we will, continue to innovate, strive to innovate, Look at, Apple hires and or acquisitions that complement the robustness of our trading technology, and I think we have a very good opportunity to be the most profitable, specifically kind of vertically integrated trading technology and asset management company in the digital asset space.

現在，它每年可能創造數億美元的收入。因此，作為我們的核心企業家，我們將繼續創新，努力創新，看看蘋果的招募和收購，它們補充了我們交易技術的穩健性，我認為我們有很好的機會成為最賺錢的，特別是數位資產領域垂直整合的交易技術和資產管理公司。

Yeah, I agree 100% on that. And also the, what we've seen and really optimized now we have this model works in Europe and not least in Scandinavia and obviously also on the marketing PR side, we learned a lot the last two years, and I think that blueprint is something we we expand in our geographically, but also in terms of vehicles because now we have the ETTs, the ETMs. But we also now have the asset management license in Switzerland.

是的，我完全同意這一點。而且，我們現在看到並真正優化了這種模式，它在歐洲有效，尤其是在斯堪的納維亞半島，顯然在營銷公關方面也是如此，過去兩年我們學到了很多東西，我認為藍圖是我們不僅在地域上擴展，而且在車輛方面也擴展，因為現在我們有了 ETT、ETM。但我們現在也擁有瑞士的資產管理許可證。

We will do other types of vehicles like funds, usage funds, hedge funds, and make sure all pools of money can access our assets and strategy strategy. So both trackers, different types of both the leverage product, but also the alpha type strategies and make sure we can distribute it even more efficiently across. Other types of vehicles, so all types of asset managers from retail to institution can invest because not everyone can buy equities. Not everyone can buy ETT.

我們將使用其他類型的工具，如基金、使用基金、對沖基金，並確保所有資金池都可以使用我們的資產和策略策略。因此，這兩種追蹤器都是不同類型的槓桿產品，也是阿爾法類型的策略，並確保我們可以更有效地進行分配。其他類型的工具，因此從零售到機構的所有類型的資產管理者都可以投資，因為不是每個人都可以購買股票。並非所有人都能購買 ETT。

Others can only buy convertible bonds or corporate bonds or hedge funds or mutual funds and so on. So the expansion, which is really A high pace right now. It's not only on the geographical side, it's also on the type of vehicle side where we see huge demands from new types of investors that have not been able to participate, but we will make it possible for them to participate where we're still in the same geographies where we are successful now. So I think to say we we have a lot to build still.

其他人只能購買可轉換債券或公司債券或對沖基金或共同基金等等。因此，目前的擴張速度確實很快。這不僅體現在地理方面，也體現在投資工具類型方面，我們看到以前無法參與的新型投資者有著巨大的需求，但我們將使他們能夠在我們目前成功的同一地理區域參與其中。所以我認為我們還有很多事情要做。

Thanks Johan. Final question from Edward Engle, and this one is for you again, Johan. At a higher crypto prices impact the outlook of DeFi alpha opportunities? Do higher valuations create more trading opportunities, or can they widen the spread you earn on some of these trades?

謝謝約翰。愛德華‧恩格爾 (Edward Engle) 的最後一個問題，約翰 (Johan)，這個問題也是問你的。加密貨幣價格上漲是否會影響 DeFi alpha 機會的前景？更高的估值是否會創造更多的交易機會，或者是否會擴大您在一些交易中獲得的利差？

Yeah, I think the, it's a bit lo now also to that, the, I would say we don't maybe we don't get higher margins, but we could probably do larger tickets per trade.

是的，我認為，現在也有點低了，我想說我們也許沒有獲得更高的利潤，但我們可能每筆交易可以獲得更大的收益。

And obviously we see with higher markets we see more opportunities for sure because there might be opportunities for us to buy distressed assets or discounted assets from different types of actors in space and if the market is higher, they are more likely to be willing to sell to us or do another type of structured deal within this framework. So. I think the higher markets will make the our counterparties more trigger happy for sure, and the margins probably remains about the same, but the ticket sizes might be higher for sure. So yeah, it's all in all, it's positive that the market goes up, yeah, on all fronts.

顯然，我們看到市場走高，我們肯定會看到更多機會，因為我們可能有機會從不同類型的太空參與者那裡購買不良資產或折價資產，如果市場走高，他們更有可能願意向我們出售或在此框架內進行另一種類型的結構化交易。所以。我認為更高的市場肯定會讓我們的交易對手更加高興，利潤率可能保持不變，但票價規模肯定會更高。所以，總的來說，市場在各方面都上漲是正面的。

Great. That concludes today’s call. If you do have any follow-up questions, please email us ir@defi.tech or Curtis@defi.tech. Thank you all again for your support, your participation. There will be a recording of this provided shortly after.

偉大的。今天的電話會議到此結束。如果您有任何後續問題，請發送電子郵件至ir@defi.tech或Curtis@defi.tech。再次感謝大家的支持與參與。稍後將會提供此內容的錄音。

It'll be emailed and tweeted out and also on the company's LinkedIn page.

它將透過電子郵件和推特發布，也將在該公司的 LinkedIn 頁面上發布。

Thank you again. Enjoy the rest of your day.

再次感謝您。享受剩餘的一天。

Yeah. Thank you.

是的。謝謝。

Thanks guys.

謝謝大家。