Darling Ingredients Inc (DAR) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Darling Ingredients Inc. conference call to discuss the company's third quarter 2025 fiscal results. (Operator Instructions) Today's call is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加達令原料公司 (Darling Ingredients Inc.) 的電話會議，本次會議將討論公司 2025 年第三季的財務表現。（操作員指示）今天的通話正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Ms. Suann Guthrie, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話交給投資人關係資深副總裁蘇安‧格思里女士。請繼續。

Thank you, and thank you for joining the Darling Ingredients third quarter 2025 earnings call. Here with me today are Mr. Randall C. Stuewe, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Mr. Bob Day, Chief Financial Officer. Our third quarter 2025 earnings news release and slide presentation are available on the investor page of our corporate website, and it will be joined by a transcript of this call once it is available.

謝謝，也感謝您參加達令原料公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。今天陪同我出席的有董事長兼執行長蘭德爾·C·斯圖維先生和首席財務官鮑勃·戴先生。我們2025年第三季財報新聞稿和投影片簡報已發佈在本公司網站的投資人頁面上，本次電話會議的文字記錄也將在發布後一同發布。

During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could materially differ because of factors discussed in today's press release and the comments made during this conference call and in the risk section of our Form 10-K, 10-Q and other reported filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We do not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statement.

在本次電話會議中，我們將發表前瞻性聲明，即對未來事件的預測、展望或其他聲明。這些陳述是基於當前的預期和假設，但存在風險和不確定性。由於今天新聞稿中討論的因素、本次電話會議期間的評論以及我們在 10-K 表格、10-Q 表格和其他向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件的風險部分中所述的因素，實際結果可能與預期存在重大差異。我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

Now I will hand the call over to Randy.

現在我將把電話交給蘭迪。

Okay. Thanks, Suann. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us for third quarter earnings call. Our core ingredients business delivered its strongest performance in 1.5-years fueled by robust global demand and exceptional execution across all operations. While the renewables market is facing some short-term uncertainty as we wait for clarity on the renewable volume obligation, we're confident that momentum is building.

好的。謝謝你，蘇安。各位早安，感謝各位參加第三季財報電話會議。由於強勁的全球需求和所有營運環節的出色執行，我們的核心原料業務取得了1.5年來最強勁的業績。儘管在再生能源發電義務明確之前，再生能源市場面臨一些短期不確定性，但我們相信市場動能正在增強。

We believe we're on the verge of a shift that will highlight the strength of Darling's integrated model, a competitive advantage that is unmatched in the industry. Our combined adjusted EBITDA for third quarter was $245 million as our Global Ingredients business performed strong with $248 million of EBITDA. As I mentioned, the renewables business continues to be challenged as we posted negative $3 million EBITDA for DGD, which included a lower of cost or market expense of $38 million at the entity level.

我們相信，我們正處於一個變革的邊緣，這將凸顯達令集團一體化模式的優勢，這是業界無與倫比的競爭優勢。第三季度，我們經調整後的合併 EBITDA 為 2.45 億美元，其中全球原料業務表現強勁，EBITDA 為 2.48 億美元。正如我之前提到的，再生能源業務繼續面臨挑戰，DGD 的 EBITDA 為負 300 萬美元，其中包括實體層面的成本與市場孰低支出 3,800 萬美元。

Bob is going to discuss more details later in the call. But I will say that both LIFO and LCM were negative in the third quarter, which is unusual and does not typically happen for extended periods. In addition, uncertainty and continued delays in getting a final RVO ruling had a negative impact on the overall biofuel environment in the US during the quarter.

鮑伯稍後會在通話中討論更多細節。但我要指出的是，第三季後進先出法和成本商法均為負值，這很不尋常，通常不會持續很長時間。此外，由於最終 RVO 裁決的不確定性和持續延誤，本季度美國整體生物燃料環境受到了負面影響。

Now in our feed segment, in our Feed Ingredients segment, global rendering volumes margins were up both sequentially and year-over-year, driven by strong demand for fats and proteins and solid execution by our global operations and marketing teams. In the US, robust demand for domestic fats, supported by a strong national agriculture and energy policy helped boost revenue and margins.

現在，在我們的飼料業務板塊，在飼料原料業務板塊，全球煉油量利潤率環比和同比增長均有所上升，這得益於對脂肪和蛋白質的強勁需求以及我們全球運營和營銷團隊的出色執行。在美國，強勁的國內油脂需求，加上強有力的國家農業和能源政策的支持，幫助提高了收入和利潤率。

Elsewhere in the world, our global rendering business, particularly in Brazil, Canada and Europe demonstrated stronger year-over-year performance. Export protein demand is showing signs of recovery with slightly firmer pricing trends emerging. Tariff implications, primarily China and APAC countries clearly have impacted our value-added poultry protein products, which serve to meet the needs of global pet food and aquaculture customers.

在世界其他地區，我們的全球渲染業務，尤其是在巴西、加拿大和歐洲，都表現出了更強的年成長表現。出口蛋白質需求呈現復甦跡象，價格走勢略為走強。關稅的影響，主要來自中國和亞太國家，顯然已經影響到我們的高附加價值家禽蛋白產品，這些產品旨在滿足全球寵物食品和水產養殖客戶的需求。

Turning to our Food segment. Performance remained steady quarter-over-quarter sales dipped slightly in the quarter as customers responded to ongoing tariff volatility, but we offset that with strong raw material sourcing and disciplined margin management. We continue to see repeat orders for our next Nextida Glucose Control product and early studies on new formulations look promising.

接下來我們來看食品板塊。業績環比保持穩定，由於客戶對持續的關稅波動做出反應，本季度銷售額略有下降，但我們透過強大的原材料採購和嚴格的利潤率管理抵消了這一影響。我們不斷收到關於我們下一代 Nextida 血糖控制產品的重複訂單，並且對新配方的早期研究結果看起來很有希望。

We're on track to launch our new next Nextida product in the back half of 2026. In our fuel segment, the renewables market continues to face headwinds. This quarter, we saw higher feedstock costs, lower RINs and LCFS pricing, which ultimately impacted margins. A scheduled turnaround of DGD3 led to reduced volumes of renewable diesel and sustainable aviation fuel and DGD1 remains idled until margins improve.

我們正按計畫推進，將於 2026 年下半年推出 Nextida 的下一代產品。在我們燃料領域，再生能源市場持續面臨逆風。本季度，原料成本上升，RINs 和 LCFS 定價下降，最終影響了利潤率。DGD3 的計劃性檢修導致再生柴油和可持續航空燃料的產量減少，DGD1 將繼續閒置，直到利潤率改善。

We believe these pressures are temporary. As mentioned earlier, we're approaching the rollout of thoughtful public policy aimed at strengthening American agriculture and energy leadership, a shift that we believe will significantly enhance DGD's earnings potential.

我們認為這些壓力是暫時的。如前所述，我們即將推出旨在加強美國農業和能源領導地位的深思熟慮的公共政策，我們相信這一轉變將顯著提高DGD的獲利潛力。

Now with that, I'd like to hand the call over to Bob to take us through some financials, and I'll come back at the end and give you my thoughts for the balance of 2025. Bob?

現在，我想把電話交給鮑勃，讓他帶我們了解一些財務狀況，最後我會回來，和大家分享我對 2025 年剩餘時間的看法。鮑伯？

Thank you, Randy. Good morning, everyone. As Randy mentioned, core business results for third quarter improved as expected, while DGD faced some challenges that we'll explain later in the call. Specifically, third quarter combined adjusted EBITDA was $245 million versus $237 million in third quarter 2024 and $250 million last quarter.

謝謝你，蘭迪。各位早安。正如蘭迪所提到的，第三季核心業務業績如預期般有所改善，而DGD面臨一些挑戰，我們將在稍後的電話會議中解釋。具體而言，第三季合併調整後 EBITDA 為 2.45 億美元，而 2024 年第三季為 2.37 億美元，上一季為 2.5 億美元。

Adjusting for DGD, the quarter was very solid at $248 million versus $198 million in 2024 and $207 million last quarter. Total net sales in the quarter were $1.6 billion versus $1.4 billion while raw material volume remains steady at 3.8 million metric tons and gross margins improved to 24.7% for the quarter compared to 22.1% last year.

經 DGD 調整後，本季業績非常穩健，達到 2.48 億美元，而 2024 年為 1.98 億美元，上一季為 2.07 億美元。本季淨銷售額為 16 億美元，而去年同期為 14 億美元；原物料銷售維持穩定，為 380 萬公噸；本季毛利率從去年的 22.1% 提高到 24.7%。

Looking at the feed segment for the quarter, EBITDA improved to $174 million from $132 million a year ago. Total sales were $1 billion versus $928 million, feed raw material volumes were approximately 3.2 million tons compared to 3.1 million tons and gross margins relative to sales improved nicely to 24.3% versus 21.5%.

從本季飼料業務來看，EBITDA 從去年同期的 1.32 億美元增至 1.74 億美元。總銷售額為 10 億美元，而去年同期為 9.28 億美元；飼料原料用量約為 320 萬噸，而去年同期為 310 萬噸；毛利率較去年同期大幅提高至 24.3%，而去年同期為 21.5%。

In the food segment, total sales for the quarter were $381 million, higher than third quarter 2024 at $357 million while gross margins for the segment were 27.5% of sales compared to 23.9% a year ago, and raw material volumes increased to 314,000 metric tons versus 306,000. EBITDA for third quarter 2025 was up significantly compared to 2024 at $72 million versus $57 million.

在食品領域，本季總銷售額為 3.81 億美元，高於 2024 年第三季的 3.57 億美元；該領域的毛利率為銷售額的 27.5%，而去年同期為 23.9%；原料用量從 30.6 萬噸增加到 31.4 萬噸。2025 年第三季 EBITDA 與 2024 年相比大幅成長，達到 7,200 萬美元，而 2024 年為 5,700 萬美元。

Moving to the fuel segment, specifically Diamond Green Diesel. Darling's share of DGD EBITDA was negative $3 million for the quarter versus positive $39 million in the third quarter of 2024. While the environment for renewable fuels has been challenging, results were further impacted by two items. First, a catalyst turnaround at DGD3, Port Arthur, which included a pause in operations for approximately 30 days, limited staff production and the higher average margins associated with that product.

接下來我們來看看燃料領域，特別是鑽石綠柴油。Darling 的 DGD EBITDA 份額本季為負 300 萬美元，而 2024 年第三季為正 3,900 萬美元。儘管再生燃料的發展環境充滿挑戰，但結果也受到以下兩個因素的影響。首先，DGD3（位於亞瑟港）進行了催化劑式的轉型，其中包括暫停營運約 30 天、限制員工生產以及與該產品相關的較高平均利潤率。

And second, end of quarter market dynamics led to negative impacts on earnings from both LIFO and LCM which, in most cases, would move in the opposite direction and have an offsetting impact. Regarding LIFO, rising feedstock prices throughout the quarter and higher quarter ending values resulted in a negative impact to EBITDA, while LCM was impacted by lower heating oil and RIN values in the days after quarter end, resulting in an LCM loss of around $38 million at the entity level.

其次，季度末市場動態對後進先出法和成本加成法的收益都產生了負面影響，而這兩種方法在大多數情況下會朝著相反的方向發展，從而產生相互抵消的影響。關於後進先出法，本季原料價格上漲以及季末價格上漲對 EBITDA 造成了負面影響，而 LCM 則受到季末後暖氣油和 RIN 值下降的影響，導致實體層面 LCM 虧損約 3,800 萬美元。

After three quarters, the combination of LIFO and LCM has resulted in a wider than normal loss that should reverse course over time. In addition to those two items, the biofuel market in the US has been challenged by policy delays, specifically delays in RVO enforcement dates for 2024 obligations, clarity around small refinery exemptions, SREs, SRE reallocations and the final RVO ruling for '26 and '27.

三個季度後，後進先出法和成本分攤法的結合導致了比正常情況更大的虧損，但隨著時間的推移，這種情況應該會扭轉。除了上述兩項之外，美國生物燃料市場還面臨政策延遲的挑戰，特別是 2024 年 RVO 義務的執行日期延遲、小型煉油廠豁免、SRE、SRE 重新分配以及 2026 年和 2027 年 RVO 最終裁決的不明確性。

However, the EPA made a supplemental proposal on September 18, that would be very constructive. In the first page of the appendix in the shareholder deck that we provided, we've shown a picture of the 2025 RIN supply versus demand, showing how these policy issues have led to an oversupply for 2025 and also showing what the balance looks like considering the EPA's proposal comparing 50% SRE reallocations and 100% reallocations for '26 and '27.

然而，美國環保署於 9 月 18 日提出了一項補充提案，該提案非常具有建設性。在我們提供的股東簡報的附錄第一頁中，我們展示了 2025 年 RIN 供需對比圖，展示了這些政策問題如何導致 2025 年供應過剩，並展示了考慮到 EPA 的提案（比較 2026 年和 2027 年 50% SRE 重新分配和 100% 重新分配）後，供平衡情況如何。

In either case, a significant amount of additional US biofuels would be needed to satisfy that RVO, suggesting higher prices for feedstocks, farm products and wider margins for biofuels. With lower biofuel margins and late in the year timing related to receiving production tax credit PTC payments, we contributed $200 million to DGD during the quarter. a total of $245 million year-to-date, which includes a $5 million contribution subsequent to quarter close.

無論哪種情況，都需要大量額外的美國生物燃料來滿足這項需求，這意味著原料、農產品價格上漲，生物燃料利潤空間擴大。由於生質燃料利潤率較低，且生產稅收抵免 (PTC) 付款的到帳時間較晚，我們本季向 DGD 貢獻了 2 億美元，年初至今累計貢獻 2.45 億美元，其中包括季度結束後追加的 500 萬美元。

These contributions are offset by the $130 million dividend received in first quarter 2025 and payments from expected sales of around $250 million of PTCs that we expect to receive in the fourth quarter. To further clarify regarding PTCs, we expect to generate a total of around $300 million in 2025. During the third quarter, we agreed to the sale of $125 million.

這些貢獻將被 2025 年第一季收到的 1.3 億美元股息以及預計在第四季度收到的約 2.5 億美元的 PTC 銷售款項所抵銷。關於 PTC，我們預計到 2025 年將產生約 3 億美元的總額。第三季度，我們同意出售價值 1.25 億美元的資產。

We anticipate an additional $125 million to $170 million of sales in the fourth quarter and we estimate receiving payment for around $200 million of the total $300 million we will expect to generate by year-end 2025, the balance of which we expect to monetize in early 2026. Overall, we are very pleased with how the market has developed for production tax credits.

我們預計第四季銷售額將增加 1.25 億美元至 1.7 億美元，預計到 2025 年底，我們將收到預計產生的 3 億美元總收入中的約 2 億美元，剩餘部分預計將在 2026 年初變現。整體而言，我們對生產稅收抵免市場的發展非常滿意。

Demand is robust as potential buyers have become more familiar with the details surrounding the credit. Other fuel segment sales, not including DGD, were $154 million for the quarter versus $137 million in 2024 despite lower volumes of 351,000 metric tons versus 391,000 metric tons which were affected by animal disease in Europe.

由於潛在買家對信貸相關細節越來越熟悉，因此需求強勁。除DGD外，其他燃料業務的銷售額本季為1.54億美元，而2024年為1.37億美元，儘管銷量從39.1萬噸下降到35.1萬億，這是由於歐洲的動物疾病造成的。

Combined adjusted EBITDA for the fuel segment was $22 million in the quarter versus $60 million in the third quarter of 2024. The difference was primarily due to lower earnings at DGD. As of September 27, 2025, total debt net of cash was $4.01 billion versus $3.97 billion ending December 28, 2024. The increase from year-end is minimal despite contributions made to DGD and a $53 million earn-out payment related to the FASA acquisition from 2022.

本季燃料業務的綜合調整後 EBITDA 為 2,200 萬美元，而 2024 年第三季為 6,000 萬美元。主要原因是DGD的收入較低。截至 2025 年 9 月 27 日，扣除現金後的總債務為 40.1 億美元，截至 2024 年 12 月 28 日為 39.7 億美元。儘管向 DGD 做出了貢獻，並且從 2022 年起，與 FASA 收購相關的 5,300 萬美元的盈利支付，但與年底相比，增長幅度微乎其微。

Capital expenditures totaled $90 million in the third quarter and $224 million for the first nine-months of 2025. We expect total debt to decrease by year-end as we generate cash from the core business and receive payments from selling PTC credits. Our bank covenant preliminary ratio at the end of third quarter was 3.65x versus 3.93x at year-end 2024.

第三季資本支出總額為 9,000 萬美元，2025 年前九個月的資本支出總額為 2.24 億美元。我們預計到年底總債務將減少，因為我們將從核心業務中產生現金，並從出售 PTC 積分中獲得收益。截至第三季末，我們的銀行契約初步比率為 3.65 倍，而 2024 年底為 3.93 倍。

In addition, we ended quarter 3, 2025, with approximately $1.7 billion available on our revolving credit facility. The company recorded an income tax benefit of $1.2 million for the three months ended September 27, 2025, yielding an effective tax rate of minus 6.3%, which differs from the federal statutory rate of 21% due primarily to recognition of revenue from the production tax credits.

此外，截至 2025 年第三季末，我們的循環信貸額度中約有 17 億美元可用。該公司在截至 2025 年 9 月 27 日的三個月內確認了 120 萬美元的所得稅收益，實際稅率為 -6.3%，這與 21% 的聯邦法定稅率不同，主要是因為確認了生產稅收抵免的收入。

The company paid $19 million of income taxes in the third quarter and $52 million year-to-date and expects to pay approximately $20 million more in the fourth quarter. Overall, net income was $19.4 million for the quarter or $0.12 per diluted share compared to net income of $16.9 million or $0.11 per diluted share for the third quarter of 2024.

該公司第三季繳納了 1,900 萬美元的所得稅，今年迄今已繳納 5,200 萬美元，預計第四季還將繳納約 2,000 萬美元。整體而言，本季淨收入為 1,940 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.12 美元，而 2024 年第三季淨收入為 1,690 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.11 美元。

Now I will turn the call back over to Randy.

現在我將把電話轉回給蘭迪。

Thanks, Bob. I couldn't be more excited about what's ahead for Darling Ingredients. And our conversations with the Trump administration, they followed through on everything they've committed to. The renewable volume obligation they've drafted is thoughtful and designed to support American agriculture and energy leadership. And we believe it will be a major catalyst for Diamond Green Diesel.

謝謝你，鮑伯。我對Darling Ingredients的未來充滿期待。我們與川普政府的對話表明，他們履行了所有承諾。他們制定的再生能源產量義務經過深思熟慮，旨在支持美國農業和能源領域的領先地位。我們相信這將成為鑽石綠柴油發展的重要催化劑。

The pieces are in place, and we believe it's only a matter of time before Darling's unmatched position in the industry becomes even more clear. As we look ahead, we remain focused on what we can control, given the current uncertainty around public policy and its impact on the fuel segment, we'll now provide financial guidance exclusively for our core ingredients business.

一切條件都已具備，我們相信，達林在業界無可匹敵的地位會更加清晰地展現出來只是時間問題。展望未來，鑑於目前公共政策及其對燃料領域的影響存在不確定性，我們將繼續專注於我們能夠控制的事情，因此我們將只提供我們核心原料業務的財務指導。

For the full year 2025, we expect the core ingredients business EBITDA, excluding DGD to be in the range of $875 million to $900 million. With that, let's go ahead and open it up to questions.

預計 2025 年全年，核心原料業務 EBITDA（不包括 DGD）將在 8.75 億美元至 9 億美元之間。那麼，接下來我們就進入提問環節。

(Operator Instructions) Thomas Palmer, JPMorgan.

（操作說明）托馬斯·帕爾默，摩根大通。

Maybe just to start out, you gave some helpful scenario analysis for RIN balances and how that might proceed over the next couple of years in the earnings presentation. I wondered about what you think the most likely timeline is that we might start to get clarity on some of these outstanding regulatory items, the RVO, the exemptions and then the reallocation.

或許可以先從獲利報告中開始，你對 RIN 餘額以及未來幾年的發展趨勢進行了一些有用的情境分析。我想知道您認為最有可能的時間表是什麼時候，我們才能開始明確一些懸而未決的監管事項，例如 RVO、豁免和重新分配。

Thanks, Tom. This is Bob. Obviously, a difficult question to answer. As everyone is aware, the government has shut down. At the same time, we've heard that the RVO is considered an essential process. We have people there at the EPA that are working on this.

謝謝你，湯姆。這是鮑伯。顯然，這是一個很難回答的問題。如大家所知，政府已經停擺。同時，我們聽說 RVO 被認為是必要的程序。我們環保署那邊有人正在研究這個問題。

So we're optimistic based on that view and the things that we're hearing, we expect sometime in the month of December to have the comment period closed or the EPA to submit to the Office of Management and Budget their proposal and to have something approved by the end of the year. But like I said, that's amid a lot of things going on, but that's our view.

因此，基於這種觀點和我們聽到的消息，我們持樂觀態度，預計在 12 月某個時候，意見徵詢期將會結束，或者美國環保署會向管理和預算辦公室提交他們的提案，並在年底前獲得批准。但就像我說的，這是在很多事情同時發生的情況下得出的結論，但這是我們的觀點。

Okay. I know it's a unique situation. And then I just wanted to clarify on the Feed outlook for the fourth quarter. The midpoint of the core ingredients EBITDA guidance implies for the kind of three combined segments that 4Q is comparable to what we saw in 3Q. At the same time, it does look like the price of waste fats and oils have dipped a bit in September. So do we need prices to rebound in order for 4Q to look similar to 3Q? Or are there other things we should be considering as we move from 3Q to 4Q?

好的。我知道這是一個特殊情況。然後，我想澄清一下第四季的飼料供應前景。核心成分 EBITDA 指引的中點表明，對於這三個合併的業務板塊而言，第四季度與第三季度的情況相當。與此同時，9 月廢油脂的價格似乎略有下降。那麼，我們需要價格反彈才能使第四季的情況與第三季類似嗎？或者，從第三季度過渡到第四季度，我們還應該考慮其他哪些因素？

Yes. I mean, Tom, this is Randy. I mean the $875 million to $900 million, the reason we put the range on there was exactly as you laid out. We have seen, given the uncertainty on policy waste fat prices come down a little bit here most of our material in North America is going to DGD. But remember, there's still Brazil and Canada and prices remain strong there.

是的。湯姆，我是說，這是蘭迪。我的意思是，8.75億美元到9億美元這個範圍，我們把這個範圍定下來的原因正如你所說。鑑於政策的不確定性，我們看到廢脂肪價格在這裡略有下降，我們在北美的大部分材料都流向了DGD。但別忘了，巴西和加拿大還有物價，那裡的物價依然堅挺。

So ultimately, it's kind of -- it's a fairly narrow range for the business. As I look around the horn on DGD, I expect the Food segment to be stronger a little bit in Q4, maybe a little consistent, maybe a little on the Feed segment. But I think we'll come in close to that range. And hopefully, we can surprise you 1 day and be above it.

所以歸根究底，對企業來說，這是一個相當狹窄的範圍。從DGD的整體情況來看，我預計食品板塊在第四季會略有成長，飼料板塊可能會保持穩定成長。但我認為我們最終的結果會接近這個範圍。希望有一天我們能給你一個驚喜，超越這一切。

Conor Fitzpatrick, Bank of America.

康納·菲茨帕特里克，美國銀行。

It looks like your RIN supply and demand table in the slides calls for significant biomass-based diesel feed imports through 2027. As a coastal operator, DGD may import feed and receive the RINs penalty on those gallons, but could you maybe walk through the benefits to RINs policy protectionism on the feed side and maybe explain how that nets out within your US fuel and feed businesses?

從幻燈片中的 RIN 供需表來看，到 2027 年，生質柴油原料的進口量將大幅增加。作為沿海運營商，DGD 可以進口飼料並因此受到 RINs 罰款，但您能否詳細解釋一下 RINs 政策保護主義對飼料方面的好處，並說明這如何與您的美國燃料和飼料業務產生最終影響？

Yes. Thanks, Conor. This is Bob. If I don't answer your question directly, let me know. I think the first thing I would say is, it's still not totally clear how the EPA is going to treat foreign feedstocks. That's a part of this process. As to whether foreign feedstocks are needed to meet the production and the obligations. It's going to depend on a lot of things.

是的。謝謝你，康納。這是鮑伯。如果我沒有直接回答你的問題，請告訴我。我認為首先要說的是，目前還不完全清楚美國環保署將如何處理外國原料。這是這個過程的一部分。至於是否需要進口原料來滿足生產和履行義務。這取決於很多因素。

We do have a lot of crop -- crops and crop oils in the United States and overall North America that could be used as feedstock for biofuels. So until some of the rules around what -- if there are penalties for foreign feedstocks and how some of the crop oils are going to be treated, it's really hard to answer that question.

美國和整個北美地區有許多農作物和農作物油，可以作為生物燃料的原料。所以，在有關外國原料是否會受到處罰以及某些作物油將如何處理等一些規則出台之前，這個問題真的很難回答。

I will say that I think when you look at overall supply and demand for fats and oils in North America, and you include biofuels and food and this picture and this proposed RVO from the than probably some foreign feedstocks will be required to meet that mandate. And we're just not clear yet on how that will be accommodated.

我想說的是，如果你縱觀北美油脂的整體供需情況，並將生物燃料和食品考慮在內，考慮到這種情況以及擬議的 RVO，那麼可能需要一些外國原料來滿足這一要求。我們目前還不清楚該如何解決這個問題。

Dushyant Ailani, Jefferies.

杜尚特·艾拉尼，傑富瑞。

Congrats on the quarter. I also wanted to note that we really appreciate the change in guidance approach that does help us. My first question was on the 3Q DGD margins. The capture was significantly better than expected. What are some of the drivers there?

恭喜你本季取得佳績。我還想指出，我們非常感謝指導方式的改變，這確實對我們有幫助。我的第一個問題是關於第三季DGD利潤率的。捕獲效果遠超預期。那裡有哪些司機？

The third quarter capture was better? Is that what you said?

第三季的捕獲情況更好嗎？你真是這麼說的嗎？

Yes. For the DGD margins, it just came in better than expected. Was it like staff production or any export ARP that we can think of?

是的。就DGD利潤率而言，結果比預期要好。它類似於員工生產還是我們能想到的任何出口型ARP？

Yes. I think the -- so I'm not sure I fully understand the question because the DGD result was maybe not as good as we hoped --

是的。我覺得——所以我不確定我是否完全理解了這個問題，因為DGD的結果可能沒有我們預期的那麼好。--

I'll help Bob here a little bit. I think, Dushyant, you're referring to the capture that Valero reports. And keep in mind here, this is a bit awkward in that they met their LCM against their other segments. So they had the same LCM we have. They just didn't put it against the renewables or DGD segment. So that's what makes the capture rate look better.

我來幫鮑伯一點忙。杜尚特，我想你指的是瓦萊羅公司報告的那次捕獲行動。需要注意的是，這裡有點尷尬，因為他們的 LCM 與其他部分是衝突的。所以他們和我們一樣，都使用了相同的最小公倍數。他們只是沒有把它與再生能源或分散式發電領域進行比較。所以這就是為什麼捕獲率看起來更好的原因。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe just staying on topic for the 4Q DGD margins. But we understand the nuance on removing the DGD guidance. It seems like fundamentals are still improving nicely. Indicator margins are up, again, Valero's indicator margins seem to be up $0.36 quarter-over-quarter. What are you seeing in 4Q? And how do you kind of think about that? What are some of the puts and takes, if you can share?

知道了。好的。那很有幫助。然後，或許我們可以繼續討論第四季 DGD 利潤率。但我們理解取消DGD指導意見的細微差別。基本面似乎仍在良好改善。指標利潤率再次上升，瓦萊羅的指標利潤率似乎環比上升了 0.36 美元。你對第四季有什麼看法？你對此有什麼看法？如果可以的話，請分享其中的一些投入和收穫？

Yes. I mean this is kind of the challenge that's out there. I mean clearly, the two big units in Port Arthur and Norco are going to be operating at capacity. SAF is going to be at capacity yes, the capture indicator is stronger right now. The challenge for us is we thought by this time, we would have RIN values kind of starting to reflect the restarting of the industry and they really have it yet.

是的。我的意思是，這就是我們面臨的挑戰。我的意思是，很明顯，位於亞瑟港和諾科的兩座大型核電廠將會滿載運轉。SAF即將達到滿載運轉，是的，目前的捕獲指標更為強勁。我們面臨的挑戰是，我們認為到這個時候，RIN 值應該開始反映出產業的重啟，但他們實際上還沒有做到這一點。

So it's kind of hard. I mean we're the low-cost operator. We have enough feedstock to run our units. Our SAS margins are better than classic renewable diesel. And what else you want to add Bob?

所以這有點難。我的意思是，我們是低成本營運商。我們有足夠的原料來維持設備的運作。我們的 SAS 利潤率優於傳統再生柴油。鮑勃，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Well, I think we have seen an improvement in margins so far in the quarter. The question is just -- or the point here is until we get clarity on the final ruling on the RVO for '26 and '27, it's hard to it's hard to say with certainty that those margins are going to continue. But thus far in the quarter, yes, we've seen some improvement. That's for sure.

我認為本季到目前為止，利潤率已經有所改善。問題在於——或者說，關鍵在於，在 2026 年和 2027 年的 RVO 最終裁決明確之前，很難確定這些差距是否會繼續存在。但就本季而言，是的，我們已經看到了一些改善。那當然。

Manav Gupta, UBS.

瑞銀集團的馬納夫·古普塔。

My first question is we saw a good improvement in your feed segment margins. I think Randy, over the years, you had indicated that eventually those acquisitions coming in you would be able to drive improvement in those fronts. So help us understand some of the factors that drift help you drive a movement in the Feed segment margin?

我的第一個問題是，我們看到您的飼料加工環節利潤率有了顯著提高。蘭迪，我認為你這些年來一直表示，最終你收購的那些公司將能夠推動這些方面的改善。那麼，請您幫我們了解一下，哪些因素會影響Feed細分市場的利潤率？

And also to an earlier question, yes, imported feedstocks might be needed, but domestic feedstocks will price at a higher premium because they'll get 100% win. So what would be the outlook for the Feed segment going into 2026. If you could talk a little bit about that?

至於先前的問題，是的，可能需要進口原料，但國產原料的價格會更高，因為它們能獲得 100% 的收益。那麼，到 2026 年，飼料產業的市場前景如何呢？能稍微談談這方面嗎？

Yes. I mean, clearly, as we've talked in Q1 and Q2, we've used the word building momentum. We were seeing feedstock prices come up what we've seen mostly is feedstock prices are flowing through now, although they've come off a little bit for Q4, but we're seeing protein prices improve around the world. It's -- I call it there's a tariff on one-day, a tariff off one-day.

是的。我的意思是，很顯然，正如我們在第一季和第二季所討論的那樣，我們使用了「建立勢頭」這個詞。我們看到原料價格上漲，目前我們看到的主要是原料價格正在回落，儘管第四季價格略有下降，但我們看到世界各地的蛋白質價格都在改善。我稱之為－對一天的商品徵收一種關稅，對另一天的商品徵收另一種關稅。

China needs to buy poultry proteins to feed aquaculture and whether it's China or Vietnam when the window opens, they trade. And so we've seen a pretty nice improvement. You can look sequentially, you can look year-over-year in the appendix of the supplier or the shareholders' debt there. And ultimately see the pricing movement. Clearly, fat prices were up sharply.

中國需要購買禽肉蛋白來餵養水產養殖，無論是中國還是越南，一旦市場開放，他們就會進行交易。因此，我們已經看到了相當不錯的改善。您可以依序查看，也可以在供應商或股東債務的附錄中查看年比資料。最終觀察價格走勢。顯然，脂肪價格大幅上漲。

The products we use at DGD and -- but protein prices were up 10%. So I think we're going to carry into Q4, remember, we're always about 60-days sold ahead. And so we'll carry some pretty strong prices into Q4. And I'm hoping that as we move into next year, we'll have kind of the same momentum. There's always a little bit of seasonality here, but really, that's kind of what I'm expecting as I look out there.

我們在 DGD 使用的產品——但是蛋白質價格上漲了 10%。所以我認為我們會將這種勢頭延續到第四季度，記住，我們總是提前大約 60 天售出產品。因此，我們將把相當強勁的價格延續到第四季。我希望進入明年，我們能夠保持同樣的勢頭。這裡總是會有一些季節性變化，但說實話，這就是我向外觀察後所預期的。

Perfect. My quick question on the table that you have created. It's very helpful. But help me understand, here you're assuming a flattish capacity. We know there are facilities which are heavily dependent on foreign feedstocks at this point of time, and they are still struggling I think they will struggle even more next year if you decide to give only 50% RIN to imported feedstocks.

完美的。關於您創建的表格，我有一個簡短的問題。這很有幫助。但請幫我理解一下，這裡你假設的是一個大致平坦的容量。我們知道目前有一些工廠嚴重依賴外國原料，而且它們仍在苦苦掙扎。我認為，如果你明年決定只給進口原料 50% 的 RIN，它們將會面臨更大的困境。

So is there a possibility this RIN balance would look even more attractive if some of those facilities that are heavily dependent on imported feedstock actually decided to call it a day and shut down.

那麼，如果一些嚴重依賴進口原料的工廠真的決定關門歇業，RIN 平衡是否有可能看起來更具吸引力？

Yes. I think Bob and I will tag team this. My answer is we went into 2025 with the belief that the DGD margins would be no lower than they were in 2024. And we were wrong. And where were we wrong? Well, we didn't understand that the big oil guys would actually run at such significant losses to produce their own RINs. We believe that's changing as we come into 2026 and 2027. The losses at those plants are substantial.

是的。我覺得我和鮑伯會聯手完成這件事。我的回答是，我們在進入 2025 年時認為，DGD 利潤率不會低於 2024 年的水準。我們錯了。我們究竟錯在哪裡？我們當時並不知道，大型石油公司竟然會冒著如此龐大的虧損來生產自己的RIN（再生能源識別碼）。我們認為，隨著2026年和2027年的到來，這種情況將會改變。這些工廠的損失相當巨大。

I mean it clearly shows how efficient and operationally effective DGD is. The RIN balance that Bob will talk about here in a minute, yes, it actually gets even more constructive if people behave rationally.

我的意思是，這清楚地表明了DGD的效率和運作效果。Bob 馬上要談到的 RIN 平衡，是的，如果人們理性行事，它實際上會變得更有建設性。

Yes. And I'll just add, I think all of that is true. In addition, the proposed RVO for '26 and '27 is substantially larger than 2025. So even if we had similar production, as you noticed from the grid that we provided, then we will ultimately have a deficit in '26 and '27. And what this is intending to show is specifically that. And then beg the question, how much do margins need to improve in order for production to increase so that we can satisfy the mandate '26 and '27.

是的。我還要補充一點，我認為以上說法都屬實。此外，2026 年和 2027 年的擬議 RVO 比 2025 年大得多。所以即使我們的產量相似，正如您從我們提供的表格中看到的，那麼我們最終在 2026 年和 2027 年也會出現短缺。而這正是為了表明這一點。然後就引出了一個問題，為了提高產量以滿足 2026 年和 2027 年的要求，利潤率需要提高多少。

You add a layer of complexity when you -- with the imported feedstock and if imported feedstock only generates half a RIN. I think that some of that is going to depend on what is the origin tariff placed on that feedstock -- if a feedstock, if a foreign feedstock only is penalized by getting half a RIN and then not being eligible for the PTC, then it's reasonable to expect a decent amount of foreign feedstocks to competitively come into the United States.

當您使用進口原料，並且進口原料僅生成半個 RIN 時，就會增加一層複雜性。我認為，這在一定程度上取決於對該原料徵收的原產地關稅——如果一種原料，如果一種外國原料僅僅因為獲得一半的 RIN 而受到懲罰，並且沒有資格獲得 PTC，那麼就可以合理地預期會有相當數量的外國原料以競爭的方式進入美國。

It would just come in at a discount to the US feedstock prices which, again, is constructive to the feed business and our core rendering business in the United States, but it would allow for satisfying the mandate for the RVO but it would -- again, it suggests that margins need to go up quite a bit in renewable diesel in order for that to happen.

它的售價會低於美國原料價格，這對美國的飼料業務和我們的核心煉油業務來說是有利的，而且可以滿足 RVO 的要求，但這也意味著再生柴油的利潤率需要大幅提高才能實現這一目標。

Pooran Sharma, Stephens Inc.

Pooran Sharma，Stephens Inc.

I just wanted to maybe just peel into to that last answer you gave there, Bob. I know in the past, you have kind of walked through different RIN pricing scenarios. And there are a little moving pieces here just with how foreign feedstocks will get counted. But just as it stands now, no PTC, half a rent for the foreign need stocks, are you able to quantify like what range RINs should be at in order for the industry to run, to meet the mandate in 2026?

鮑勃，我只是想就你剛才給的最後一個答案展開討論一下。我知道過去您曾探討過不同的 RIN 定價方案。這裡還有一些變數，例如如何計算外國原料的數量。但就目前的情況來看，沒有 PTC，外國需求股票的租金只有一半，您能否量化一下，為了讓行業正常運轉，為了在 2026 年達到要求，RIN 應該在什麼範圍內？

So this is going to be somewhat of a swag here because, like you said, there are a lot of moving pieces. And if we assume that there's -- we have access to our origin feedstocks that don't face a significant tariff. And the primary source of the penalty is the half rent and lack of access to a PTC. Then we probably need RINs to go up $0.40 or so in order to incentivize enough production to satisfy the mandate for '26. If the SRE reallocation is only 50%.

所以這有點像是在開玩笑，因為正如你所說，這裡面有很多變數。如果我們假設—我們可以獲得不受重大關稅影響的原產原料。而罰款的主要來源是租金減半以及無法獲得 PTC。那麼我們可能需要將 RIN 的價格提高 0.40 美元左右，以激勵足夠的產量來滿足 2026 年的強制性要求。如果 SRE 重新分配比例僅為 50%。

Great. Appreciate that. My follow-up, I just kind of wanted to focus on the balance sheet more specifically your debt and leverage. I wanted to revisit what your plans are to pay off debt. And I also wanted to ask, what are your restrictions? Like what leverage ratios do your debt restrictions, the covenants start kicking in at?

偉大的。謝謝。我的後續問題是，我想更詳細地了解資產負債表，特別是你們的債務和槓桿率。我想再次了解你償還債務的計劃。我還想問一下，你們有什麼限制？例如，你們的債務限制條款在槓桿率達到多少時開始生效？

We're nowhere near breaking any covenants. I think we've said before, we're committed to paying down debt. We've got a lot of headroom in our revolver due to circumstances around receiving cash payments from selling production tax credits we will be receiving more cash in the fourth quarter, and we didn't receive any cash from production tax credits in the third quarter.

我們遠遠沒有違反任何契約。我想我們之前已經說過，我們致力於償還債務。由於出售生產稅收抵免所得現金支付情況，我們的循環信貸額度空間很大；我們將在第四季度收到更多現金，而我們在第三季度沒有收到任何生產稅收抵免的現金。

And so by the end of the year, we expect our debt coverage ratio as it's viewed by the banks, to be right around three times. So that's really -- that's our position on that.

因此，到今年年底，我們預計銀行認可的債務覆蓋率將達到三倍左右。所以，這就是我們對此事的立場。

And long term, Pooran, we've got a financial policy agreed in the board room to go down to 2.5 times. It doesn't take much for the restart of DGD to start to do that. We've not been in a capital deprivation or starvation mode of any of the factories globally. So we're in good shape here to continue to build this thing out and grow and delever at the same time.

從長遠來看，Pooran，我們在董事會上已經達成了一項財務政策，將本益比降至 2.5 倍。DGD重啟後，很快就會出現這種情況。全球範圍內，我們沒有任何一家工廠出現資金短缺或資金匱乏的情況。所以我們現在處境良好，可以繼續發展壯大，同時實現成長和降低槓桿。

Ryan Todd, Piper Sandler.

瑞安·托德，派珀·桑德勒。

Sorry, I know you talked a lot about this, but maybe one more follow-up on some of the regulatory uncertainty. I mean the -- as we wait for the final RVO, I mean, you've talked about the uncertainty around reallocation and a couple of other things. What are some of the other topics that you think are still being kicked around. Is there a possibility of any change in the approach to import of foreign biofuels?

抱歉，我知道您已經多次談到這個問題，但或許可以再跟進監管方面的一些不確定性。我的意思是——在我們等待最終的 RVO 時，您已經談到了重新分配的不確定性以及其他一些事情。你認為還有哪些話題仍在被討論？進口外國生物燃料的方式是否有可能改變？

Are they still -- is there still a consideration in terms of the treatment of domestic feedstocks in terms of carbon intensity, like land use penalties and stuff like that? And what are some of the potential risks or positive things you think could come out of the final ruling there outside of just kind of the high-level RVO and the reallocation?

在處理國內原料時，是否仍會考慮碳排放強度，例如土地使用處罰之類的因素？除了高階的資源價值評估和重新分配之外，您認為最終裁決可能帶來哪些潛在風險或正面影響？

Well, I think, Ryan, this is Randy and Bob and I'll kind of tag it again here if I leave anything out. I mean, clearly, American agriculture is at the forefront of the discussions in DC right now. Clearly, when you lose your largest customer for soybeans, when you get beef prices as high as they are, you've got a lot of people in the room that have ideas on how to fix the situation.

嗯，我想，瑞恩，這是蘭迪和鮑勃，如果我漏掉了什麼，我會在這裡再補充。我的意思是，很顯然，美國農業現在是華盛頓特區討論的焦點。顯然，當你失去最大的大豆客戶，當牛肉價格像現在這樣高的時候，房間裡會有很多人提出解決這種情況的想法。

And so what we've been part of, as many of these discussions is, what's the easy button. The easy button here is a large SPO for RVO with a 100% reallocation. Now if you go back and you look, really, the ETA gave you a multiple choice test. It's at either 50% or 100%, but if you're really inclined, you can talk about something else you'd like.

因此，我們參與的許多討論都是關於：有沒有簡單的解決方案？這裡最簡單的辦法是使用較大的 SPO 進行 RVO，並進行 100% 的重新分配。現在如果你回頭仔細看看，你會發現，ETA 實際上是為你準備了一個選擇題測驗。可以是 50% 或 100%，但如果你真的有興趣，也可以談談你感興趣的其他事情。

And so they've set the table there. Clearly, the PTC out there is -- doesn't encourage foreign feedstocks. So I mean that's a block in itself with a tariff on top of that even makes it more difficult. We've had discussions in DC and we said, well, the easy button is that, just remember, if you don't allow foreign feedstocks in here because they can't generate a credit then, oh, by the way, where are those feedstocks going to go and the room goes silent.

所以他們已經在那兒擺好了桌子。顯然，現有的PTC（生產技術證書）並不鼓勵使用外國原料。所以我的意思是，這本身就是一個障礙，再加上關稅，就更加困難了。我們在華盛頓特區進行了討論，我們說，最簡單的辦法是，記住，如果你不允許外國原料進入這裡，因為它們無法產生信用額度，那麼，哦，對了，這些原料要去哪裡呢？然後房間裡一片寂靜。

They finally got it. They realize those stocks are going to go back to other processors, you can probably name who they are around the world in Singapore and Rotterdam and Porvoo, Finland. And then they're going to move finished RD on top of us and that's disruptive to what they're trying to accomplish. So they're trying to figure out right now how to manage that under the tariff code.

他們終於明白了。他們意識到這些庫存將會回到其他加工商手中，你可能知道這些加工商是誰，他們遍布世界各地，包括新加坡、鹿特丹和芬蘭的波爾沃。然後他們打算把完成的研發工作強加給我們，這會擾亂他們正在努力實現的目標。所以他們現在正在想辦法在關稅法框架下解決這個問題。

So you've got the US trade along with the EPA collaborating, trying to figure out how to put this together to accomplish the needs that are going to produce energy and be constructive to the US farm community.

因此，美國貿易部門和環保署正在合作，試圖弄清楚如何將這些資源整合起來，以滿足能源生產的需求，並對美國農業社區產生建設性影響。

Yes. And I'll just add that as we sit here today, the EPA has already proposed a 50% RIN generated for foreign biofuel, no access to PTC. So -- that in and of itself makes it more difficult. But as Randy said, there's a lot of momentum to preventing foreign biofuels to come in and participate in US support programs.

是的。我還要補充一點，就在我們今天坐在這裡的時候，美國環保署已經提議，50% 的 RIN 必須用於外國生物燃料，並且不允許獲得 PTC。所以——這本身就使事情變得更加困難。但正如蘭迪所說，阻止外國生物燃料進入美國並參與美國扶持計劃的勢頭非常強勁。

So we're pretty confident that, that's going to work out well as it relates to feedstocks, that is another thing that we're waiting for clarity on and whether they're going to enforce the 50% RIN concept or if we're -- foreign feedstocks are simply going to be limited by origin tariffs.

因此，我們相當有信心，就原料而言，這將取得良好的效果。這是我們仍在等待明確答案的另一件事，即他們是否會強制執行 50% RIN 概念，或者外國原料是否會僅僅受到原產地關稅的限制。

Okay. And then maybe just -- I mean you talked about -- you provided a little bit of clarity around PTC monetization. You've had a couple -- you're a couple of quarters into the experience of a few quarters in the experienced production under the PTC regime, you're getting more consistency. Can you talk about how the monetization market seems to be working there? Have the discounts been fairly stable?

好的。然後也許只是——我的意思是，你談到了——你對點擊付費廣告的盈利模式進行了一些澄清。你已經經歷了幾個季度——在 PTC 體制下，你已經累積了幾個季度的經驗，在經驗豐富的製作過程中，你獲得了更大的穩定性。您能談談那裡的獲利市場運作情況嗎？折扣力道一直比較穩定嗎？

And how should we think about the general ratability of the process at this point? Is the $125 million this quarter, $150 million at the midpoint next quarter? Is that like a -- are you in a fairly ratable place now in terms of monetizing the majority of your production?

那麼，我們現在該如何看待這個過程的整體可評定性呢？這1.25億美元是指本季的收入，1.5億美元是指下季中期的收入嗎？這就像——就目前而言，你對大部分作品的獲利情況是否相當滿意？

Yes, I think so. I think the context here is that there were two things that made it difficult earlier in the year to sell production tax credits. One is that not many counterparties were familiar with the credit itself. So there was lots of questions. The value of the credit is determined in part by carbon intensity. So you can just imagine for industries looking to buy tax credits that aren't familiar with our biofuel industry trying to understand all that is not an easy thing.

是的，我也這麼認為。我認為這裡的背景是，今年早些時候有兩個因素導致生產稅收抵免難以出售。其中一個原因是，許多交易對手並不熟悉這種信用本身。所以有很多問題。信用額度的價值部分取決於碳排放強度。所以你可以想像，對於那些想要購買稅收抵免但又不熟悉我們生質燃料產業的企業來說，要理解這一切並非易事。

And then the other is that most companies had -- it was pretty cloudy what their tax liabilities were going to look like at the end of '25 because of the Big Beautiful Bill and a lot of things that went on around that. So early in the year, it was difficult to get a lot of traction. That's obviously changed significantly. Both of those pictures are a lot more clear.

另一方面，由於《大而美法案》以及圍繞該法案發生的許多事情，大多數公司在 2025 年底的納稅義務情況相當不明朗。今年年初，很難有顯著進展。情況顯然已經發生了顯著變化。這兩張照片都清晰多了。

And so yes, I think that for us, we're confident in our ability to sell a majority of the credits that we'll generate in 2025 and then it should be a pretty ratable process through 2026.

所以，是的，我認為我們有信心出售我們在 2025 年產生的大部分碳信用額，然後到 2026 年應該會是一個相當可控的過程。

Yes. I think just one last piece to that is I would characterize the environment is there is more interested parties now. than there were earlier in the year. So it's now getting a chance to define terms, refine terms and pick the counterparty that we want to deal with, with timing respective to when to receive the cash. So it's a very constructive environment now.

是的。我認為最後一點是，目前的情況是，利害關係人比年初時更多了。所以現在有機會確定條款、完善條款並選擇我們想要交易的交易對手，以及確定何時收到現金的時間。所以現在的環境非常有利於建設性。

Derrick Whitfield, Texas Capital.

德里克·惠特菲爾德，德克薩斯資本。

Regarding guidance, I appreciate the position you guys are taking with the more volatile DGD business segment. With that said, we are seeing better stop margins in 4Q for most feedstocks and specifically for tallow and yellow grease. Would it be fair to highlight that DGD could post the best quarter in 2025 at current margins which, again, will be a positive development as you enter 2026?

關於指導意見，我很欣賞你們對波動性較大的DGD業務板塊所採取的立場。也就是說，我們看到第四季大多數原料的停損利潤率有所提高，特別是牛油和奶油。可以這樣說嗎？按照目前的利潤率，DGD 有可能在 2025 年取得最佳季度業績，而這對於進入 2026 年來說又將是一個積極的發展趨勢？

Yes. Thanks, Derrick. I think that would be fair. I think one of the things we're sensitive to is just how uncertain policy has been and the impact that, that's had on margins. I mean, look, we're very optimistic about improvement in the fourth quarter and the outlook for next year. But we realized that the market at large really wants to see proof of that before estimates believing a lot of what estimates are out there.

是的。謝謝你，德里克。我覺得這樣比較公平。我認為我們比較關注的一點是政策的不確定性及其對利潤率的影響。我的意思是，你看，我們對第四季的改善以及明年的前景都非常樂觀。但我們意識到，整個市場在相信很多預測之前，真的希望能看到證據。

So I think that we are encouraged by what we've seen so far in the quarter, and we think the outlook is good, but we're just hesitant to define that with a lot of precision, just given the lack of clarity around policy that we're still facing.

所以，我認為我們對本季迄今所看到的情況感到鼓舞，我們認為前景良好，但鑑於我們仍然面臨的政策不明朗，我們不願對此做出非常精確的定義。

Bob, can you comment on what it takes to trigger RIN and obligations and when that would happen?

Bob，你能解釋一下觸發 RIN 及其義務需要哪些條件，以及何時會發生嗎？

So with the enforcement dates and -- yes. I mean, I think one thing that has caused a real delay in the reaction of the RIN, has been the movement of the 2024 enforcement date from March 31 to December 1. Until we get the final ruling on the '26 and '27 RVO and clarification as to when the 2025 enforcement date is going to be.

所以，關於執行日期，是的。我的意思是，我認為導致 RIN 反應真正延遲的一件事，是 2024 年的強制執行日期從 3 月 31 日推遲到了 12 月 1 日。直到我們得到關於 2026 年和 2027 年 RVO 的最終裁決，以及關於 2025 年強制執行日期的澄清。

It's difficult for obligated parties to feel that they're incentivized to go and buy all their RINs, especially when so many small refinery exemptions were granted for the small refineries out there that are wondering whether they should buy RINs they have an incentive to wait when the obligation date is set at a later time in the event that they get an exemption.

對於有義務購買 RIN 的各方來說，很難感受到他們有動力去購買所有 RIN，尤其是當許多小型煉油廠獲得豁免時，這些小型煉油廠還在猶豫是否應該購買 RIN，因此他們有動力等到義務日期推遲時再購買，以防獲得豁免。

And so what Randy is alluding to is until some of those things are clarified, which we do think is going to happen around the end of the year. But until those things are clarified, the incentive to buy RINs and tighten up the RIN S&D doesn't exist the way that it's intended. And so it's just -- it gets a little bit difficult to forecast. But we -- to your point, Derrick, we have seen an improvement in margins so far in the quarter. The outlook is better, and we're very optimistic about 2026.

所以蘭迪所暗示的是，在這些事情得到澄清之前，我們認為這些事情會在年底左右得到澄清。但是，在這些事情得到澄清之前，購買 RIN 和加強 RIN 徵用和銷毀的動力並沒有按預期的方式存在。所以，預測就變得有點困難了。但是，正如你所說，德里克，本季到目前為止，我們已經看到利潤率有所改善。前景更樂觀，我們對2026年充滿信心。

Great. Understood. And as my follow-up, we've seen the RD market in Europe strengthen in recent months. If you guys work through the complex math of spreads, shipping and tariffs, to what extent could you access this market if it remains robust?

偉大的。明白了。作為後續補充，我們看到近幾個月來歐洲的研發市場有所增強。如果你們能算清價、運輸和關稅等複雜的數學問題，如果這個市場保持強勁成長，你們能在多大程度上進入這個市場？

We can access that market, but we pay a duty to access that market. So -- and that duty can fluctuate a bit, but it's typically over $1 a gallon. So we are selling consistently to that market. Our Diamond Green is. But it's just -- it's -- we're looking at it as a net of duties and comparing that to other markets we have available.

我們可以進入那個市場，但我們需要為此繳納一定的稅金。所以——而且這項關稅可能會有些波動，但通常超過每加侖 1 美元。因此，我們一直持續向該市場銷售產品。我們的鑽石綠是。但我們現在是把它看作是一張關稅網，並將其與我們可利用的其他市場進行比較。

Matthew Blair, TPH.

Matthew Blair，TPH。

I was hoping you could talk a little bit about the feedstock mix at DGD. And I know that you're always looking to optimize and some of this is commercially sensitive. But just on a big picture basis, it looks like some of the indicator margins for RD made from vegetable oil are trending a little bit better than RD made from low CIP. So -- just overall, has DGD shifted to more of a veg oil mix? Or is it still pretty much all low CIPs?

我希望您能談談DGD的原料混合情況。我知道你一直在尋求優化，而且其中一些內容涉及商業機密。但從整體來看，用植物油製成的 RD 的一些指標利潤率似乎比用低 CIP 製成的 RD 略好一些。所以——總的來說，DGD 是否更多地轉向了植物油混合物？或者說，目前仍然基本上都是低CIP？

Yes. Thanks, Matthew. This is Bob. So I wouldn't -- DGD hasn't materially shifted its mix as I think you're aware, DGD1 is still down if DGD1 were to go back up and run, then that mix would shift more towards soybean oil. But as we sit here today, the mix hasn't changed a lot. Our best margins are on UCO and yellow grease and animal fats. And so we're going to maximize the opportunity we have to use those products.

是的。謝謝你，馬修。這是鮑伯。所以我不會——正如你所知，DGD 的配方並沒有發生實質性的變化，DGD1 目前仍然處於低位，如果 DGD1 恢復生產並運行，那麼其配方將更多地轉向大豆油。但時至今日，這種格局並沒有太大變化。我們利潤最高的產品是廢食用油、奶油和動物油脂。因此，我們將最大限度地利用這些產品的機會。

Yes. The only thing that I would add, Matthew, is that clearly, in Q1 and Q2 as we were trying to figure out the rules around the PTC and 45Z re-domesticating our supply chain was a pretty significant challenge. DGD is heavily reliant now on Darling's UCO and Darling's yellow grease and animal fat supply. And so we've got that up and running full speed now, and it's really visible now that you can see it in the earnings of our core ingredients business. And ultimately, it will translate into a better sales value within DGD.

是的。馬修，我唯一要補充的是，很明顯，在第一季和第二季度，當我們試圖弄清楚 PTC 和 45Z 的相關規則時，重新實現供應鏈本土化是一個相當大的挑戰。DGD目前嚴重依賴達令公司的廢食用油、奶油和動物脂肪供應。所以現在我們已經全面啟動並運行了這項業務，而且現在你可以從我們核心原料業務的收益中清楚地看到這一點。最終，這將轉化為DGD更高的銷售價值。

That's helpful. And then apologies if I missed this, but the contributions that Darling is making to DGD is that to help fund the DGD3 turnaround? Or why is Darling sending money back to DGD?

那很有幫助。如果我錯過了什麼，請見諒，但達林對DGD的貢獻是為了幫助資助DGD3的轉型嗎？或者，達令為什麼要把錢寄回給DGD？

Yes. And it's hard. So the answer to that question, some of that's timing, some of that is turnaround. Some of that is just the margin structure. So remember, that the PTC revenue that we will get as Darling, that flows directly to the partners. So that money doesn't stay inside of Diamond Green Diesel. That's number one. The other is, as you pointed out, in 2025, we've completed three catalyst turnarounds.

是的。而且這很難。所以這個問題的答案，一部分是時機問題，一部分是周轉時間問題。其中一些原因只是利潤率結構的問題。所以請記住，我們作為 Darling 獲得的 PTC 收入將直接流向合作夥伴。這樣一來，這些錢就不會留在鑽石綠柴油公司了。這是第一點。正如你所指出的，另一方面，到 2025 年，我們已經完成了三個催化劑式的扭虧為盈計畫。

And so our maintenance CapEx is higher in 2025 than normal. So it's really the timing of all those things that's led to the contributions that we've made.

因此，我們2025年的維護資本支出將高於正常水準。所以，正是所有這些事情發生的時機，促成了我們所做的貢獻。

Jason Gabelman, TD Securities.

Jason Gabelman，TD Securities。

I wanted to go back to something else that Bob had mentioned just around companies complying with their RIN obligations and that perhaps catalyzing stronger RIN prices. Can you talk about, I guess, more specifically the timeline around that I think 2024 RINs are due December 1. And then at that time, the balances for 2025 should become more visible to the market.

我想回到鮑伯之前提到的另一件事，那就是公司遵守其 RIN 義務，這或許會刺激 RIN 價格走強。您能否更具體地談談時間表，我認為 2024 年 RIN 將於 12 月 1 日到期。屆時，2025 年的餘額應該會更清楚地呈現在市場上。

So do you expect that December first deadline to hold? And do you think that could be an initial catalyst to move RIN prices higher before we get the final RVO for '26 and '27?

那你認為12月1日的最後期限會維持不變嗎？你認為這是否會成為在 2026 年和 2027 年最終 RVO 公佈之前，推動 RIN 價格上漲的初步催化劑？

Yes. Thanks, Jason. So I do think that deadline will hold. I don't know that it will have much of an impact on RIN prices because all the RINs that have been procured so far in 2025 can ultimately be used to satisfy the obligation for 2024. And that's quite a long time and a lot of RINs. There may be some refiners who are waiting until the last moment to buy their RINs.

是的。謝謝你，傑森。所以我認為截止日期會保持不變。我不認為這會對 RIN 價格產生多大影響，因為 2025 年迄今為止採購的所有 RIN 最終都可以用來滿足 2024 年的義務。那可是相當長的時間，而且產生了大量的RIN碼。可能有些煉油商會等到最後一刻才購買RINs。

But because we've had so much time in 2025 to do that, we're not expecting that, that's going to result in a significant lift to RIN prices at that time. If we have clarity around enforcement dates for 2025, going back to the March 31, 2026, as they normally would be. That would be a time when we would expect RIN values to probably see a lift.

但由於我們在 2025 年有充足的時間來完成這項工作，我們預計屆時 RIN 價格不會大幅上漲。如果我們能明確 2025 年的執行日期，那麼就恢復到 2026 年 3 月 31 日，就像往常一樣。屆時我們預計 RIN 值可能會有所提升。

Got it. That's helpful. And then my second one is hopefully a simple question. Just given on the screen, DGD margins have improved. It seems like it could be the margin signal could be there to restart DGD1, so wondering what exactly you need to see to have confidence to restart DGD1?

知道了。那很有幫助。那麼我的第二個問題，希望是個簡單的問題。螢幕上顯示，DGD利潤率有所提高。看起來似乎已經出現了重啟 DGD1 的餘裕訊號，所以想知道究竟需要看到什麼才能有信心重啟 DGD1？

So we've talked about this before. DGD1 went down for a catalyst turn around early in 2025. Given the changes in the PTC and the origin tariffs on so many of the feedstocks, our view is that DGD1 only makes sense to restart at least in the current environment with the current RVO under the current rules when soybean oil can be profitable.

我們之前討論過這個問題。DGD1 在 2025 年初因催化劑而停產。鑑於PTC和許多原料的原產地關稅發生了變化，我們認為，只有在當前環境下，在現行規則下，當大豆油能夠盈利時，DGD1才有意義。

And profitable means a margin that's good enough for a long enough outlook that justifies burning up a catalyst. And so I think, certainly, we're a lot closer to that than we have been. We may get there, but it definitely looks a lot better than it did a few months ago.

獲利意味著利潤率要夠高，才能在足夠長的時間內維持獲利，證明消耗催化劑是值得的。所以我認為，我們肯定比以前更接近目標了。我們或許能達到目標，但肯定比幾個月前好多了。

Andrew Strelzik, BMO.

Andrew Strelzik，BMO。

This is [Ben] on for Andrew. My first question is around the Food segment. And just a commentary there that when it's maybe some weakness exiting third quarter and into fourth quarter. So I was just hoping you could just walk us through your outlook for the next few months in the food segment.

這是本替安德魯上場。我的第一個問題是關於食品領域的。這裡要說明的是，第三節結束到第四節開始的時候，球隊可能會出現一些疲軟的跡象。所以，我希望您能為我們介紹一下您對未來幾個月食品產業的展望。

Yes, I think what we were trying to put in the narrative is clearly tariff on, tariff off, up to 50, fentanyl tariffs, trying to figure out the supply chain was very confusing for our customers in Q3 and so the choice was to pull down domestic inventories. So remember, most of our Brazilian production comes into the US that's in the hydrolyzed collagen peptide form, very successful product for us.

是的，我認為我們試圖在敘述中明確表達的是，關稅的徵收、取消、最高 50 個百分點、芬太尼關稅，以及在第三季度試圖弄清供應鏈對我們的客戶來說非常混亂，因此我們選擇降低國內庫存。所以請記住，我們巴西生產的大部分產品都以水解膠原蛋白勝肽的形式出口到美國，這對我們來說是非常成功的產品。

And so we had some delays in orders there. We think it will pick up and be a stronger Q4. That's about all the color that I can give you today on it. And what we've seen is a continued rebound of the hydrolyzed collagen business. And while our new Nextida products are making a foothold in the industry, they're still relatively minor in the contribution of that segment.

因此，我們那邊的訂單出現了一些延誤。我們認為第四季將會好轉並表現更強勁。今天我能透露的資訊就這麼多了。我們看到的是水解膠原蛋白業務的持續復甦。雖然我們的 Nextida 新產品正在該行業中站穩腳跟，但它們在該領域的貢獻仍然相對較小。

But they are as we quoted in there, we're getting repeat orders, which is a great thing. By next summer, we're going to launch what I think will be called Nextida Brain, and that will be a brain health product and it's got a really great outlook, too.

但正如我們在文中提到的，我們獲得了回頭客訂單，這是一件好事。到明年夏天，我們將推出一款名為 Nextida Brain 的產品，這是一款腦健康產品，前景非常廣闊。

Well, that's great to hear. And then on my next question, something that kind of, I think gets lost in the weeds sometimes or at least lately, California LCFS credit value, they've been generally stable at weak levels. Can you remind us of the expected timeline of triggers that should propel these values higher eventually?

聽到這個消息真是太好了。然後，關於我的下一個問題，我認為有些事情有時會被忽略，或者至少最近是這樣，加州低碳燃料標準 (LCFS) 的信用價值，它們一直穩定在較低的水平。您能否提醒我們一下，預計哪些觸發因素最終會推動這些數值上升？

Thanks, Andrew, this is Bob. I think as we know, there was quite a bit of a delay in the implementation of their step down to increase the greenhouse gas obligation, reduction obligation in California. And so -- as a result of that, that bank got built up so large that most of the obligated parties from our perspective had a sufficient number of credits where they -- even with the change in the ruling they didn't need to go out and immediately buy credits.

謝謝你，安德魯，我是鮑伯。正如我們所知，加州逐步降低溫室氣體減量義務的實施出現了相當大的延誤。因此，該銀行的規模如此龐大，以至於從我們的角度來看，大多數債務方都擁有足夠的信貸額度，即使裁決發生變化，他們也不需要立即出去購買信貸。

Our view is that they are working their way through those credits and that sometime in 2026, we'll start to see that S&D come more into balance and steady increases in the LCFS credit premium. But it's hard to -- I think we believe it will be more steady than sort of a step-up in value.

我們認為，他們正在逐步消耗這些積分，到 2026 年的某個時候，我們將開始看到供應與需求更加平衡，低碳燃料標準積分溢價穩步增長。但很難說——我認為我們相信它會更加穩定，而不是價值的大幅上漲。

Heather Jones, Heather Jones Research.

Heather Jones，Heather Jones 研究公司。

I had a question on your feed segment and just thinking about the protein pricing. I know in the past that you have put in place and some of your fat pricing contracts, you had like minimum levels and if it went below that, what Darling received, it wouldn't go below that? And I was just wondering if you all had put any of those kind of things in place for your protein business in the US?

我有一個關於你們飼料部分的問題，我正在考慮蛋白質定價的問題。我知道過去你們制定了一些定價策略，包括一些高價合同，其中設定了最低水平，如果低於這個水平，達令收到的款項就不會低於這個水平？我只是想問，你們在美國的蛋白質業務中是否也採取了類似的措施？

Heather, this is Bob. So all of our every contract is somewhat unique, and it really has to do with our approach towards accommodating our suppliers and trying to work with them on terms that make sense for their business as you're -- I think what you're pointing out is that we do have some contracts where Darling collects a minimum processing fee.

希瑟，這是鮑伯。因此，我們的每一份合約都有些獨特，這實際上與我們對待供應商的方式有關，我們努力與他們合作，制定對他們的業務有意義的條款，正如您所指出的——我認為您指出的是，我們確實有一些合同，其中 Darling 會收取最低手續費。

And if prices get above a certain threshold, then we participate in some of the value of those prices. There are certain instances where protein prices are part of that as fat prices are. I think generally speaking, though, we see -- as you're well aware, we see a lot more volatility in fat prices and a lot more upside from time to time in fat prices. And so we tend to focus more on that than we do on the volatility in the protein markets.

如果價格超過某個閾值，那麼我們就能分享這些價格上漲所帶來的部分收益。在某些情況下，蛋白質價格和脂肪價格一樣，都是其中的一部分。不過總的來說，正如您所知，我們看到脂肪價格波動更大，而且脂肪價格不時會有更大的上漲空間。因此，我們往往更關注這一點，而不是蛋白質市場的波動。

Yes, I think to argument, what Bob said, is the thing that happened is the United States was heavily reliant on shipping low-ash poultry meal into the Asia countries for dominantly China for aquaculture. The offset was a strong domestic pet food demand in the US. And what we've seen twofold is, one, with the tariffs on, tariffs off with China and Vietnam, they're unable to take the risk, if you will, to buy that product.

是的，我認為鮑伯所說的論點是正確的，那就是美國嚴重依賴向亞洲國家（主要是中國）出口低灰分家禽粉，用於水產養殖。抵銷這項影響的是美國國內強勁的寵物食品需求。我們看到兩方面的情況，第一，無論對中國或越南徵收關稅，他們都無法承擔購買該產品的風險。

So it has to find as all commodities do the next best market. What you're seeing in the pet food business is post COVID, you've seen fluffy back to the shelter. And then you're not seeing a growth that's very significant right now on the pet food side. And then you're seeing that the consumer -- the CPG companies took prices up pretty drastically making those bags of brand name products with meat in them, really, really pricey and you're watching strong growth now in the green-based alternatives, namely old Roy.

所以它必須像所有商品一樣，找到下一個最佳市場。在新冠疫情之後，寵物食品產業出現了這樣的情況：許多毛茸茸的寵物又回到了收容所。而且目前寵物食品領域並沒有非常顯著的成長。然後你會看到消費者——消費品公司大幅提高了價格，使得那些含有肉類的品牌產品價格非常非常高，而現在你會看到綠色替代品，特別是老羅伊（Old Roy）產品，正在強勁增長。

So it's essentially a disruption scenario right now, Heather, and we're off from where traditionally poultry high-end, low-ash poultry products have traded, although they're coming back. The second that Trump relieved the tariff on Vietnam for 30-days or whatever, big shipments and sales went out of here. That's our Eastern Seaboard plant that are heavily reliant on those products.

所以，Heather，目前的情況本質上是一種顛覆性局面，我們已經偏離了傳統高端、低灰分家禽產品的交易市場，儘管它們正在回歸。川普一旦取消對越南的關稅30天（或其他任何期限），大量貨物就從這裡運出，銷售額也大幅下降。那是我們位於東海岸的工廠，他們非常依賴這些產品。

So I think we've got a pretty good outlook. They've come back now and have improved quarter-over-quarter. And I think we're cautious on next year, but we think it's -- we think everything looks much better.

所以我覺得我們的前景相當不錯。他們現在已經恢復了狀態，並且環比有所進步。我認為我們對明年持謹慎態度，但我們認為——我們認為一切看起來都會好得多。

Okay. And then my follow-up is on Europe. So recently, they extended the tariffs on RD imports and biodiesel imports extended to staff. So as we're thinking about Q4, you'll have a full quarter of SAP production and SAP pricing in Europe is really strong. So will having a full quarter production more than offset the impact of them now imposing these tariffs on US staff? Just wondering how to think about those moving pieces.

好的。接下來，我的後續報導是關於歐洲的。所以最近，他們將研發進口關稅和生質柴油進口關稅擴大到了員工範圍。所以，當我們展望第四季時，SAP 將完成一個季度的生產，而且 SAP 在歐洲的定價非常強勁。那麼，如果季度產量達到滿載，是否就能抵銷他們現在對美國員工徵收這些關稅的影響呢？我只是想知道該如何看待這些不斷變化的因素。

Yes. Thanks, Heather. I think the way to look -- think about that is it will have if it's going to have an impact, the impact is going to be felt a bit later on. SAF is not -- we aren't selling market. The SAF that we're producing today was sold a while ago, and most of the SAF that we will produce in 2026 is already sold. So the tariff impacts will affect new contracts as they come about.

是的。謝謝你，希瑟。我認為應該這樣看待這件事——想想看，如果它會產生影響，那麼這種影響會在一段時間後才會顯現出來。SAF 不是——我們不在市場上銷售。我們今天生產的SAF產品已經售出一段時間了，而我們將在2026年生產的SAF產品大部分也已經售出。因此，關稅的影響將會影響到新簽訂的合約。

We'll just have to see what those markets look like and supply and demand. But we still have access to voluntary markets in the United States. So we're optimistic about where we stand with SAF and SAF sales.

我們只能拭目以待，看看這些市場的狀況以及供需關係如何。但我們仍然可以進入美國的自願市場。因此，我們對SAF的現況和SAF的銷售情況持樂觀態度。

Betty Zhang, Scotiabank.

Betty Zhang，加拿大豐業銀行。

For my first question, I wanted to ask about broadly the core EBITDA guidance. It's been updated to that $875 million to $900 million range, and that's a bit lower versus the first number that you gave out at the beginning of the year, so I'm wondering if you could reflect on how the year played out and where it didn't quite meet your earlier expectations.

我的第一個問題是關於核心 EBITDA 指引的整體情況。現在已經更新到 8.75 億美元到 9 億美元之間，這比您年初給出的第一個數字略低，所以我想知道您是否可以回顧一下這一年的情況，以及哪些方面沒有達到您之前的預期。

And looking forward to 2026, do you think that this year's 12% to 13% growth is somewhat comparable to what you're seeing for next year?

展望 2026 年，您認為今年 12% 到 13% 的成長率與您預測的明年成長率在某種程度上是否相當？

Yes, Betty, this is Randy. I mean the $875 million to $900 million is the amalgamation of all three segments, net of DGD. Clearly, we're 2/3 of the way through October, we don't know really where October is going to finish. We don't have that type of visibility on a day-to-day basis here. So it's just -- this business when prices are steady, and volumes are steady around the world, you can give some guidance there.

是的，貝蒂，這是蘭迪。我的意思是，8.75 億美元到 9 億美元是所有三個部門合併後的金額，扣除了 DGD 的稅額。顯然，現在已經過去了十月的三分之二，我們還不知道十月最終會如何結束。我們這裡日常運作中沒有那種程度的可見度。所以，當全球價格和銷售都保持穩定時，這個產業就能提供一些指引。

What we have tried to do is it's just too difficult to put a number out on DGD either for Q4 or next year. The core ingredients right now looks similar to stronger in 2026. But we won't know that and be able to give guidance on that until around -- till an RVO is published and then when we do our -- probably our February earnings call.

我們嘗試過，但很難給出第四季或明年的DGD具體數字。目前的核心成分看起來與 2026 年相比更加強勁。但是，我們直到 RVO 發布，以及我們可能在 2 月的財報電話會議上才能知道這一點並給予指導。

Okay. Fair enough. And my follow-up question, I want to ask about the Fuel Ingredients business, the portion, excluding DGD. The margin there looked a bit the gross margin looked a bit higher quarter-over-quarter and also the segment earnings came in higher versus what we saw in the first half. Could you please share maybe some of the drivers there?

好的。很公平。我的後續問題是，我想問燃料原料業務，不包括DGD的部分。該業務的利潤率看起來比上一季略高，毛利率也略高，而且該業務部門的收益也比上半年有所提高。能否請您分享那裡的一些司機的資訊？

Yes, that business is made up, while Bob described it in his comments, a disease, it's really mortality destruction predominantly in Europe today. And then that's our green gas business, remind people that the green gas or green certification business in Europe, we're the one of the largest in all of Europe today producing gas over there.

是的，那件事是編造的，雖然鮑勃在他的評論中將其描述為一種疾病，但實際上它主要在當今歐洲造成了嚴重的死亡破壞。然後是我們的綠色氣體業務，提醒大家，在歐洲，我們是綠色氣體或綠色認證業務領域最大的企業之一，目前在歐洲生產天然氣。

And then those are our digester businesses, and we added a small one in Poland now. So ultimately, that business ebbs and flows with what we call the Rendac business predominantly, and that's the seven rendering plants in Europe that are geared towards mortality destruction. Anything you want to add there, Bob?

然後就是我們的沼氣池業務，現在我們在波蘭又增加了一個小型沼氣池。所以歸根究底，這項業務的興衰主要取決於我們所謂的 Rendac 業務，也就是歐洲的七家專門用於動物屍體銷毀的動物加工廠。鮑勃，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

I mean I think it's -- what you're alluding to is just sometimes the inputs, the price, the cost will change for the inputs energy prices that we're selling there remains strong. And so that's what you're seeing with these gross margins.

我的意思是，我認為——你所暗示的是，有時投入、價格、成本會發生變化，因為我們在那裡銷售的能源價格仍然堅挺。所以這就是你從這些毛利率看到的情況。

There are no additional questions left at this time. I will hand it back to the management team for any further or closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題了。我將把會議交還給管理團隊，以便他們作進一步的或總結性的發言。

Thank you again for all the questions, today. As always, if you have additional questions, feel free to reach out to Suann. Stay safe. Have a great holiday season, and we look forward to talking to you after the first of the year.

再次感謝大家今天提出的所有問題。如有任何疑問，歡迎隨時聯絡 Suann。注意安全。祝您假期愉快，我們期待在新年後與您聯繫。

That concludes today's conference call. Thank you. You may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。謝謝。現在您可以斷開線路了。