Darling Ingredients Inc (DAR) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to the Darling Ingredients Incorporated conference call, to discuss the company's fourth-quarter 2024 and fiscal year 2024 financial results. After the speaker's prepared remarks, there will be a question-and-answer period. (Operator Instructions) Today's call is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Darling Ingredients Incorporated 電話會議，討論公司 2024 年第四季和 2024 財年的財務業績。演講者發表準備好的發言後，將進入問答環節。（操作員指示）今天的通話正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Ms. Suann Guthrie. Please go ahead.

現在我想將電話轉給蘇安·格思里女士。請繼續。

Thank you for joining the Darling Ingredients' fourth-quarter 2024 and fiscal year 2024 earnings call. Here with me today are Mr. Randall C. Stuewe, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Brad Phillips, retiring Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Bob Day, our new Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Matt Jansen, Chief Operating Officer of North America.

感謝您參加 Darling Ingredients 2024 年第四季和 2024 財年財報電話會議。今天與我在一起的還有董事長兼執行長 Randall C. Stuewe 先生；即將退休的財務長布拉德·菲利普斯先生；我們新任財務長 Bob Day 先生；以及北美營運長Matt Jansen先生。

Our fourth-quarter 2024 and fiscal year 2024 earnings, news release, and slide presentation are available on the investor page of our corporate website. And we'll be joined by a transcript of this call once it is available.

我們的 2024 年第四季和 2024 財年收益、新聞稿和投影片簡報可在我們公司網站的投資者頁面上找到。一旦本次通話的記錄可用，我們就會將其發布。

During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements which are predictions, projections, or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties.

在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預期或其他陳述。這些聲明是基於當前的預期和假設，但存在風險和不確定性。

Actual results could materially differ because of factors discussed in today's press release, and the comments made during this conference call, and in the risk factors section of our Form 10-K, 10-Q, and other reported filings at the Securities and Exchange Commission. We do not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statement.

由於今天的新聞稿中討論的因素、本次電話會議中所作的評論以及我們 10-K、10-Q 表和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中的風險因素部分中所作的評論，實際結果可能會有重大差異。我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的責任。

Now I will hand the call over to Randy.

現在我將把電話交給蘭迪。

Thanks, Suann. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us for our fourth quarter of 2024 and fiscal year 2024 earnings call. As previously announced, Brad Phillips will be retiring after 36 incredible years at Darling Ingredients. After the 10-K is filed at the end of this month, Bob Day will assume the CFO position.

謝謝，Suann。大家早安，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第四季和 2024 財年財報電話會議。正如之前宣布的那樣，布拉德·菲利普斯 (Brad Phillips) 在 Darling Ingredients 工作了 36 年後即將退休。本月底提交 10-K 報告後，Bob Day 將擔任財務長一職。

Because this will be Brad's last earnings call. I want to thank Brad for his many years of service. The memories are numerous, as Brad and I have done many of these calls with you, and I think I speak for everyone in this room and on the call that we will truly miss you.

因為這將是布拉德最後一次的財報電話會議。我要感謝布拉德多年的服務。回憶無數，因為布拉德和我曾與你們進行過許多次這樣的通話，我想我代表這個房間里和通話中的每個人說，我們真的會想念你們。

As you proceed to the next chapter of your life, congratulations and best wishes to you and your family. Stay healthy, my friend. You will be dearly missed, but it's time for the next chapter of our history, and we welcome Bob Day into that exciting role.

當您邁入人生的新篇章時，我向您和您的家人表示祝賀和良好的祝愿。保持健康，我的朋友。我們會非常想念您，但是我們的歷史已經翻開新的篇章，我們歡迎鮑勃·戴 (Bob Day) 擔任這一令人興奮的職位。

Now, turning to the quarter end of year. Darling Ingredients delivered its strongest quarter of the year in 2024 and one of its top years in its 142-year history. While global markets were incredibly volatile, we focused on what we could truly control through effective margin management and CapEx stewardship.

現在，我們進入年底的季度末。達林配料公司 (Darling Ingredients) 在 2024 年取得了有史以來最強勁的季度業績，也是其 142 年歷史上最輝煌的年份之一。雖然全球市場極不穩定，但我們專注於透過有效的利潤管理和資本支出管理真正能夠控制的事情。

We paid down $353 million in debt, reducing our financial leverage ratio to 3.68 times. We received $179.8 million in dividends from Diamond Green Diesel and successfully started up the largest sustainable aviation fuel unit in the world under budget and ahead of schedule.

我們償還了3.53億美元的債務，將財務槓桿率降至3.68倍。我們從 Diamond Green Diesel 獲得了 1.798 億美元的股息，並在預算之內提前成功啟動了世界上最大的可持續航空燃料裝置。

For the fourth quarter, our combined adjusted EBITDA was $289.5 million which was net of a $59 million lower cost to market adjustment noted in last week's press release for our share of the joint venture ownership in Diamond Green Diesel.

第四季度，我們的綜合調整後 EBITDA 為 2.895 億美元，扣除上週新聞稿中所述的因我們在 Diamond Green Diesel 合資企業中所佔股權而產生的 5,900 萬美元的市場成本調整。

The company continued its focus on operational excellence, which resulted in gross margin improvement in the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to the third quarter of 2024, despite lower fat prices. We also want to point out that we delivered a significantly improved global safety record, frankly an all-time record for our global team.

該公司繼續專注於卓越運營，儘管脂肪價格較低，但 2024 年第四季的毛利率與 2024 年第三季相比有所提高。我們還要指出的是，我們的全球安全記錄顯著改善，坦白說，這是我們全球團隊的歷史最高記錄。

Turning to the Feed ingredients segment. Global rendering volumes remained as expected and continued strong. The regulatory environment is improving and clarity has arrived. With the recent notice from the US Department of Treasury on the 45Z clean fuel production tax credit and the updated GREET model, we believe what we have and what we need to begin calculating and monetizing the credit. As noted in our press release, waste fats have been steadily improving and should provide a nice tailwind for darling ingredients into 2025.

轉向飼料成分部分。全球渲染量仍符合預期並保持強勁。監管環境正在改善並已變得清晰。根據美國財政部最近關於 45Z 清潔燃料生產稅收抵免以及更新的 GREET 模型的通知，我們相信我們已經擁有並且需要開始計算和貨幣化抵免。正如我們在新聞稿中指出的那樣，廢棄脂肪一直在穩步改善，並將為 2025 年的熱門成分提供良好的推動力。

Once again, our focus on spread management, smart CapEx deployment, and operational excellence resulted in nice gross margin improvement in the feed segment. We went from 21.5% in the third quarter to 22.6% in the fourth quarter. I want to thank our global operations teams for the bold and aggressive execution they delivered.

我們再次強調，我們專注於價差管理、智慧資本支出部署和卓越運營，從而實現了飼料部門毛利率的良好提升。我們從第三季的21.5％上升到第四季的22.6％。我要感謝我們的全球營運團隊的大膽和積極的執行。

Now, turning to our food segment, we saw a slight improvement in sales in the fourth quarter compared to the third quarter as industry conditions improved. The company is continuing to focus on margin management, which resulted in a nice improvement in gross margins from 23.9% in the third quarter to 25.7% in fourth quarter.

現在，談到我們的食品部門，由於行業狀況的改善，我們看到第四季度的銷售額與第三季相比略有改善。該公司持續注重利潤率管理，毛利率從第三季的23.9%大幅提升至第四季的25.7%。

Our first sales of Nextida, our revolutionary natural glucose moderation collagen peptide, have hit the market, and the demand is beginning to accelerate. We're excited to have several more of these products now in the pipeline.

我們的革命性天然葡萄糖調節膠原蛋白勝肽 Nextida 的首批產品已上市，需求正在開始加速成長。我們非常高興現在有更多這類產品正在籌備中。

Okay, turning to our Fuel segment, Darling Ingredients received a cash dividend from Diamond Green Diesel of $68.6 million in the fourth quarter of '24 and $179.8 million in cash dividends for the full fiscal year. Subsequent to the quarter close, we have now received another cash dividend of $86.4 million in January of 2025.

好的，談到我們的燃料部門，Darling Ingredients 在 24 年第四季從 Diamond Green Diesel 獲得了 6,860 萬美元的現金股息，並在整個財年獲得了 1.798 億美元的現金股息。本季結束後，我們在 2025 年 1 月又收到了 8,640 萬美元的現金股利。

DGD continues to outperform its peers on many metrics and continues to be the best-in-class producer. We have thoroughly reviewed the 45Z clean fuels production credit guidance with third-party auditors and are aligned in determining that it provides a clear Safe Harbor for the company's accounting treatment of the tax credit.

DGD 在許多指標上繼續超越同行，並繼續成為一流的生產商。我們與第三方審計師徹底審查了 45Z 清潔燃料生產信貸指南，並一致認為它為公司對稅收抵免的會計處理提供了明確的安全港。

As a result, we are confident in our ability to book the credit and fully realize its value. While there are a few details to iron out regarding feedstock options and certification by product and destination, DGD's strategic locations, logistical flexibility, and capability to process a diverse range of feedstocks positions as well to maximize the value of this credit.

因此，我們對記帳信貸並充分實現其價值的能力充滿信心。雖然在原料選擇以及按產品和目的地進行認證方面還有一些細節需要解決，但 DGD 的戰略位置、物流靈活性以及處理各種原料的能力也可以最大限度地提高該信貸的價值。

With that, I'd like to turn it over to Brad to take us through some financials, and then I'll come back with my thoughts on 2025. Brad?

說完這些，我想讓布萊德向我們介紹一些財務狀況，然後我會再談談我對 2025 年的看法。布拉德？

Okay, thanks, Randy. Net income for the fourth quarter of 2024 totaled $101.9 million or $0.63 per diluted share compared to net income of $84.5 million or $0.52 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2023. Total net sales were $1.4 billion for the fourth quarter of 2024 as compared to $1.6 billion for the fourth quarter of 2023.

好的，謝謝，蘭迪。2024 年第四季淨收入總計 1.019 億美元或每股攤薄收入 0.63 美元，而 2023 年第四季淨收入為 8,450 萬美元或每股攤薄收入 0.52 美元。2024 年第四季的總淨銷售額為 14 億美元，而 2023 年第四季的總淨銷售額為 16 億美元。

Operating income decreased $36.4 million to $122.4 million for the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to $158.8 million for the fourth quarter of 2023, primarily due to a lower gross margin from significantly lower fat prices, which was substantially offset by lower SG&A, higher earnings from DGD, lower restructuring and asset impairment charges, a favorable change in fair value of contingent consideration, and lower depreciation and amortization expense.

2024 年第四季的營業收入為 1.224 億美元，而 2023 年第四季為 1.588 億美元，減少 3,640 萬美元，主要原因是脂肪價格大幅下降導致毛利率下降，但銷售、一般及行政費用下降、DGD 收益增加、重組和資產減損費用下降、或有利於變化價值的有利變價。

Total other expenses decreased $18.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2024 as compared to the same period in 2023, primarily due to lower interest expense as well as increased property insurance recoveries related to prior property casualty losses. For fiscal year 2024, net income was $278.9 million or $1.73 per diluted share as compared to net income of $647.7 million or $3.99 per diluted share for fiscal 2023.

2024 年第四季的其他總費用與 2023 年同期相比減少了 1,870 萬美元，主要原因是利息支出減少以及與先前財產意外損失相關的財產保險追償額增加。2024 財年的淨收入為 2.789 億美元，即每股攤薄收入 1.73 美元，而 2023 財年的淨收入為 6.477 億美元，即每股攤薄收入 3.99 美元。

Net sales for fiscal year 2024 were $5.7 billion compared to net sales of $6.8 billion for the same period of 2023. Operating income decreased $481.5 million to $468.2 million for fiscal 2024 compared to $949.7 million for fiscal year 2023.

2024 財年的淨銷售額為 57 億美元，而 2023 年同期的淨銷售額為 68 億美元。2024 財年的營業收入從 2023 財年的 9.497 億美元減少 4.815 億美元至 4.682 億美元。

The decrease was primarily the result of a lower gross margin in global ingredients and lower earnings from DGD, somewhat offset by lower SG&A, lower restructuring and asset impairment charges, and a favorable change in fair value of contingent consideration.

下降的主要原因是全球原料業務毛利率下降以及DGD收益下降，但被銷售、一般及行政費用下降、重組和資產減值費用下降以及或有對價公允價值的有利變動部分抵銷。

Total other expenses decreased $2.1 million for fiscal year 2024 from $234.8 million to $232.7 million as compared to fiscal year 2023, primarily due to lower interest expense and increased property insurance recoveries related to prior property casualty losses that were substantially offset by foreign currency losses. For the three months ended December 28, 2024. The company recorded an income tax benefit of $25.5 million, primarily due to the biofuel tax incentives. The company also paid $20.3 million of income taxes during the quarter.

2024 財年的其他總支出與 2023 財年相比減少了 210 萬美元，從 2.348 億美元降至 2.327 億美元，這主要是由於利息支出減少以及與之前的財產意外損失相關的財產保險追償增加，但這些損失被外匯損失大幅抵消。截至 2024 年 12 月 28 日的三個月。該公司記錄了 2,550 萬美元的所得稅收益，主要得益於生質燃料稅收優惠。該公司本季還支付了 2,030 萬美元的所得稅。

For the 12 months ended December 28, 2024, the company recorded an income tax benefit of $38.3 million. The company's effective tax rate for the year is a negative 15.5%. Excluding the biofuel tax incentives and a change in valuation allowance related to deferred tax assets, the effective tax rate is 23.6%. The company paid $102.7 million of income taxes in 2024.

截至 2024 年 12 月 28 日的 12 個月，該公司記錄的所得稅收益為 3,830 萬美元。該公司本年度的實際稅率為-15.5%。不包括生物燃料稅優惠和與遞延稅務資產相關的估價準備變動，有效稅率為 23.6%。該公司在 2024 年繳納了 1.027 億美元的所得稅。

As you know, the Clean Fuel Production Tax Credit is a transferable income tax credit replacing the [blenders'] tax credit beginning in 2025. As previously indicated, we believe the guidance released by Treasury last month provides a line of sight to realize and monetize these credits. We are vigorously working through the details with our business partners. We look forward to providing an update soon.

如您所知，清潔燃料生產稅收抵免是一種可轉讓的所得稅抵免，從 2025 年開始取代 [攪拌機] 稅收抵免。如前所述，我們認為財政部上個月發布的指導意見為實現和貨幣化這些信貸提供了指導方針。我們正在與我們的業務夥伴積極討論細節問題。我們期待盡快提供更新資訊。

In the fourth quarter of 2024, we paid down approximately $162.9 million of debt. And as Randy previously said, $353.4 million of debt was paid down for fiscal year 2024. The combination of effective working capital management, CapEx stewardship, and solid receipts and dividends from the Diamond Green Diesel joint venture assisted in the company's ability to de-lever while also purchasing about $34.3 million or about 1 million shares of our common stock.

2024 年第四季度，我們償還了約 1.629 億美元的債務。正如蘭迪之前所說，2024 財年已償還了 3.534 億美元的債務。有效的營運資本管理、資本支出管理以及 Diamond Green Diesel 合資企業的穩定收入和股息相結合，幫助公司降低了槓桿率，同時也購買了價值約 3,430 萬美元或約 100 萬股普通股。

The company's total debt outstanding as of December 28, 2024, was $4 billion compared to $4.4 billion at year-end 2023. Our bank covenant preliminary leverage ratio at Q4 2024 was 3.93 times, and we had approximately $1.2 billion available to borrow under our revolving credit facility.

截至 2024 年 12 月 28 日，該公司未償還債務總額為 40 億美元，而 2023 年底為 44 億美元。我們 2024 年第四季的銀行契約初步槓桿比率為 3.93 倍，且我們根據循環信貸安排可藉入約 12 億美元。

Capital expenditures totaled $73.3 million in the fourth quarter and $332.5 million for fiscal year 2024. As Randy mentioned earlier, we received $68.6 million in cash dividends from DGD during the quarter and $179.8 million for fiscal year 2024, with an additional $86.4 million that was distributed in January 2025. While the 2025 operating plan calls for a slight increase of capital expenditures to approximately $400 million, it will be judiciously managed based on market conditions.

第四季資本支出總計 7,330 萬美元，2024 財年資本支出總計 3.325 億美元。正如蘭迪之前提到的，我們在本季度從 DGD 獲得了 6860 萬美元的現金股息，在 2024 財年獲得了 1.798 億美元的現金股息，另外還在 2025 年 1 月派發了 8640 萬美元。雖然 2025 年營運計畫要求將資本支出略微增加至約 4 億美元，但將根據市場情況進行明智管理。

Now, turn the call back over to you, Randy.

現在，把電話轉回給你，蘭迪。

Thanks, Brad. Well done. We're optimistic about 2025. We have begun the year with strong momentum and expect that to continue to build throughout the year. Global raw material volumes remain robust, and stronger fat prices in the first quarter should provide a lift as pending tariffs and clean fuel production credit provide even greater certainty to the value of domestic feedstocks.

謝謝，布拉德。做得好。我們對 2025 年充滿樂觀。我們以強勁的勢頭開啟了新的一年，並期望這種勢頭全年都能持續增強。全球原料產量仍然強勁，第一季脂肪價格上漲將帶來提振，因為即將推出的關稅和清潔燃料生產信貸將為國內原料的價值提供更大的確定性。

This is very advantageous for our core ingredients business, as Darling Ingredients is the largest producer of waste fats in the world and the only truly vertically integrated renewable producer. With regulatory clarity on US biofuel policies such as 45Z and California's low carbon fuel standard, we believe the market is stabilizing.

這對我們的核心原料業務非常有利，因為 Darling Ingredients 是世界上最大的廢棄脂肪生產商，也是唯一真正垂直整合的可再生原料生產商。隨著美國生物燃料政策（如45Z和加州低碳燃料標準）監管的明確，我們相信市場正在趨於穩定。

A sharp decline in foreign biofuel imports and early signs of capacity rationalization in the domestic biodiesel and renewable diesel production, indicate a more balanced supply and demand environment for 2025. These dynamics combined with our strategic positioning and operational expertise uniquely position us to capitalize on the market and drive growth. As the market continues to work through the details on the clean fuel production tax credit, I expect our ingredient prices and rims to adjust and solidify throughout the year.

國外生物燃料進口量的急劇下降以及國內生物柴油和可再生柴油生產產能合理化的早期跡象表明，2025年的供需環境將更加平衡。這些動力與我們的策略定位和營運專長相結合，使我們能夠利用市場並推動成長。隨著市場繼續研究清潔燃料生產稅收抵免的細節，我預計我們的原料價格和輪圈將在全年進行調整和穩定。

Our priorities for 2025 are very clear. We're staying focused on disciplined capital deployment, efficient working capital management, operational excellence, and margin management. Our goal is to maintain a strong financial policy with a focus on deleveraging, aiming for a 2.5 times bank leverage ratio in the future.

我們對 2025 年的優先事項非常明確。我們始終專注於嚴格的資本配置、高效率的營運資本管理、卓越的營運和利潤管理。我們的目標是維持強勁的金融政策，重點去槓桿，未來銀行槓桿率目標達到2.5倍。

We'll continue to drive robust research and development in the collagen peptide space, delivering a powerful portfolio of natural collagen solutions with holistic and targeted health benefits. We'll also continue to explore expansion opportunities in the renewable natural gas as those markets evolve in the United States and Europe.

我們將繼續推動膠原蛋白勝肽領域的強勁研究和開發，提供具有整體和有針對性的健康益處的強大的天然膠原蛋白解決方案組合。隨著美國和歐洲市場的發展，我們也將繼續探索再生天然氣的擴張機會。

And as our SAF sales book continues to build nicely, we are looking at ways to convert more renewable diesel in the SAF. We expect 2025 to be stronger than 2024, gaining momentum throughout the year as DGD turnarounds are completed and SAF sales command a larger percentage of our mix. Given the fourth-quarter 2024 run rate, and with only one period into the new year, I am providing guidance of $1.25 billion to $1.3 billion combined adjusted EBITDA for 2025, and we'll provide updates as the year progresses.

隨著我們的 SAF 銷售量持續良好成長，我們正在尋找在 SAF 中轉化更多再生柴油的方法。我們預計 2025 年的表現將比 2024 年更加強勁，隨著 DGD 扭虧為盈的完成以及 SAF 銷售在我們產品組合中所佔比例的增加，全年都將獲得成長勢頭。考慮到 2024 年第四季的運行率，並且新年僅剩一個時期，我對 2025 年綜合調整後 EBITDA 的預期為 12.5 億美元至 13 億美元，我們將在今年內提供更新資訊。

With that, like to go back to Q&A now.

說了這麼多，現在我們又回到問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Manav Gupta, UBS.

(操作員指示) Manav Gupta，瑞銀。

Good morning, Randy, and congrats, Brad. You've been very helpful over the years. My question relates to 45Z. Like when we look at 45Z, it feels like it was custom created for Dar, almost like one of the senior management members broke into the room where it was being written and wrote it for them. There is no credit for imported RD, no credit for RD from imported [yuko]. Waste oil is getting a much bigger credit than bean oil, no credit for canola. All these things should help Dar. So help us understand all the ways in which, 45Z makes Dar a relative winner in the space.

早安，蘭迪，恭喜你，布拉德。這些年來您一直給我很大的幫助。我的問題與 45Z 有關。就像我們看《45Z》時，感覺它是為 Dar 專門創作的，就好像一位高級管理人員闖進了正在創作它的房間並為他們寫了這首歌。進口研發沒有信用，進口研發沒有信用[優子]。地溝油獲得的信貸比豆油多得多，而菜籽油則沒有獲得信貸。所有這些都應該對 Dar 有幫助。因此，請幫助我們理解 45Z 如何使 Dar 成為該領域的相對贏家。

Yeah, look, this is Bob. Thanks, man. I'll go first.

是的，看，這是鮑伯。謝謝，老兄。我先走了。

I think Randy stated very clearly in his opening remarks about how we feel about 45Z, but I'll just reiterate and say that, 45Z is law.

我認為蘭迪在開場白中非常清楚地表達了我們對 45Z 的感受，但我只想重申，45Z 是法律。

The due diligence and advice that we've gotten make us confident that the current notice provides safe harbor, the ability to realize the credit value, unless or until a new notice is provided, so. We're very pleased with what's out there today and what we're able to do with that. You pointed out in your question, this is a CI score adjusted tax credit and it's only eligible to US biofuel producers.

我們得到的盡職調查和建議使我們相信，當前通知提供了安全港，能夠實現信用價值，除非或直到提供新的通知，所以。我們對目前所取得的成果以及我們能利用這些成果所做的事情感到非常滿意。您在問題中指出，這是 CI 分數調整後的稅收抵免，並且只對美國生物燃料生產商有效。

That's for reasons that have nothing to do with Darling's influence, but it has more to do with just the environment that we're in and what's good for policy. It is very positive for Darling. The primary reason for that is being a CI adjusted tax credit, Darling produces the lowest CI score feedstocks that are eligible for this credit. Global animal fats and US used cooking oil, we are the largest producer of those two things.

原因與達林的影響無關，而與我們所處的環境以及有利於政策的因素更相關。這對 Darling 來說是一件非常積極的事情。主要原因是 CI 調整了稅收抵免，達令生產的 CI 分數最低的原料有資格獲得此抵免。全球動物脂肪和美國廢棄食用油，我們是這兩種產品的最大生產國。

And then it's also extremely positive for Diamond Green Diesel. They also are able to benefit from low CI score feedstocks. And if those feedstocks earn a higher margin in producing biofuel, Diamond Green Diesel is well placed to process -- to pre-treat and process those feedstocks better than anyone else has proven to be able to do. And eliminating foreign biofuels from eligibility of the [PCC], it certainly plays to DGD strengths given the amount of US production that they have.

這對 Diamond Green Diesel 來說也是極為有利的。他們也能夠從低 CI 分數原料中受益。如果這些原料在生產生質燃料時能獲得更高的利潤，那麼 Diamond Green Diesel 就完全有能力進行加工——對這些原料進行預處理和加工，比其他任何人都做得更好。將外國生物燃料從 [PCC] 資格中剔除，考慮到美國的生物燃料產量，這無疑可以發揮 DGD 的優勢。

Perfect guys, I'll ask a very quick follow up. Randy, in your opening comments you did say looking to make more staff versus RD. Can you just elaborate on that a little?

太好了，夥計們，我會很快問一個後續問題。蘭迪，在你的開場白中你確實說過希望招募更多的員工而不是 RD。能稍微詳細說明一下嗎？

This is Matt. Yeah, so, we've mentioned in the past how once we got our first SAF line up and running that we would be looking to for other opportunities next individual steps in adding additional SAF capacity and that's exactly what we're doing. And so, as you know, only about half of our production at DGD 3 is channeled towards the SAF line, and so whether we actually go in and invest to -- add the capacity there in Port Arthur or if we do something in in Norco, but these are all things that I think will transpire over the coming months.

這是馬特。是的，我們過去曾提到過，一旦我們的第一條 SAF 生產線投入運行，我們就會尋找其他機會，進一步增加 SAF 產能，而這正是我們正在做的事情。因此，如您所知，DGD 3 的產量只有大約一半流向 SAF 生產線，因此，我們是否真的進入並投資 - 增加亞瑟港的產能，或者我們是否在諾科採取一些措施，但這些都是我認為將在未來幾個月內發生的事情。

And, looking at -- now that we have -- one of the big hurdles was, okay, this is new for us, so we want to get and be able to: a, build the plant; b, process and make [spec]; and c, sell it. And so we've accomplished all of those at this point and so that's what's giving us the confidence to work towards our next SAF plan.

而且，看看——現在我們有了——其中一個最大的障礙是，好吧，這對我們來說是新事物，所以我們希望能夠：a、建造工廠； b、加工並製作[規格]；和 c、出售它。我們現在已完成了所有這些目標，這給了我們信心去實現下一個 SAF 計劃。

Dushyant Ailani, Jefferies.

杜什揚特‧艾拉尼 (Dushyant Ailani)，傑富瑞 (Jefferies)。

Thank you for taking my question. Brad, it was a pleasure working with you. And Bob, congrats on the new role.

感謝您回答我的問題。布拉德，很高興與您合作。鮑勃，祝賀你擔任新職務。

My first question is on the LCM adjustment. Maybe could you share more about what that -- like more about what the actual adjustment, is it truly non-cash? And then maybe thinking about 2025, the guide that you've given the $1.25 billion to $1.3 billion, does that as of today, does that exclude any impact from LCM adjustments?

我的第一個問題是關於 LCM 調整的。也許您能否分享更多關於實際調整的信息，它是否真的是非現金的？然後也許想想 2025 年，您給出的 12.5 億美元到 13 億美元的指導價，截至今天，這是否排除了 LCM 調整的影響？

Do you want to take the guide question?

您要回答引導性問題嗎？

Yeah. Dushyant, this is Randall. I'll take the guide question. Obviously, the core ingredient business in Q4 set a much higher run rate than 2024. We're coming out conservative at DGD, but basically equivalent to the per gallon run rate that we had last year at this time. And no, it doesn't include any LCM pickup. It's not hard to see DGD doing much better than the combination of [900] or a billion in the core ingredients and [250] or [350] within the combined adjusted there.

是的。杜什揚特，這是蘭德爾。我將回答引導性問題。顯然，第四季的核心成分業務的運作率遠高於2024年。我們在 DGD 方面採取了保守的態度，但基本上相當於我們去年同期的每加侖運行率。不，它不包含任何 LCM 拾音器。不難看出，DGD 的表現比核心成分中的 [900] 或 10 億以及調整後的 [250] 或 [350] 的組合好得多。

We're just trying to take a conservative view at this moment. Clearly there's been a lot of questions on what you can monetize, I think Bob did a really nice job. I mean, one more time to reiterate it and so we don't have to answer it another six times today is: 45Z is law. We know how to calculate it. Our advisers and tax councils are comfortable with how we're calculating it, and we believe it can be monetized and will be recognized.

我們此刻只是想採取保守的觀點。顯然，關於什麼可以貨幣化存在很多疑問，我認為鮑伯做得非常好。我的意思是，再重申一次，這樣我們今天就不必再回答六遍了：45Z 是法律。我們知道如何計算它。我們的顧問和稅務委員會對我們的計算方式感到滿意，我們相信它可以貨幣化並得到認可。

So we're operating the business with that view right now. We fundamentally view that -- and we'll talk about this and maybe Bob can comment a little bit on it. We'll talk about the tightening of the [RIN S&D] and the curtailing of capacity. And so Bob, you want to go to LCM and that then?

因此我們現在就是以這種觀點來經營業務的。我們從根本上認為——我們會談論這個問題，也許鮑勃可以對此發表一些評論。我們將討論 [RIN S&D] 的收緊和產能削減。那麼鮑勃，你想去 LCM 嗎？

Yeah, and Brad, feel free to jump in, but trying to explain LCM would be and how it works, it'd be impossible on this call, but it is a non-cash expense. We recognize it. It's -- for those that want to pull it out, it's relatively easy to do so and it's part of a of an accounting system that is pretty typical for the oil and gas industry.

是的，布拉德，請隨意加入，但嘗試解釋 LCM 是什麼以及它是如何工作的，在這個電話中是不可能的，但它是一項非現金支出。我們認識到了這一點。對於那些想要將其取出的人來說，這相對容易，而且它是石油和天然氣行業典型的會計系統的一部分。

The only thing I would add on LCM, Dushyant, is obviously, DGDs financials which will be attached -- audited financials which will be attached as an exhibit to our 10-K in a couple of weeks. In that audit, the LCM is called out. That's the way it is audited, recorded, and we follow that. Our partner has different opportunities there. We understand the analysts for the most part back it out, but we'll continue to record it as the audited number, our share of that LCM.

Dushyant，關於 LCM 我唯一要補充的顯然是 DGD 的財務報表，該報表將附在後面——經過審計的財務報表將在幾週後作為我們 10-K 報表的附件。在該次審計中，LCM 被調出。這就是審計和記錄的方式，我們遵循這種方式。我們的合作夥伴在那裡有不同的機會。我們理解分析師大多會放棄這一觀點，但我們將繼續將其記錄為審計數字，即我們在該 LCM 中的份額。

Back to you, Bob. Is there anything else.

回到你這裡，鮑伯。還有什麼嗎？

That's perfect.

那很完美。

Perfect, thank you guys. I appreciate that. And then maybe just the next one on Nextida. Could you share kind of more details on what the ramp looks like in 2025 and then maybe if possible, could you quantify what how much of the food sales was Nextida in 4Q?

非常好，謝謝大家。我很感激。然後也許只是 Nextida 上的下一個。您能否分享更多關於 2025 年成長情況的細節，如果可能的話，您能否量化 Nextida 在第四季度的食品銷售額佔比是多少？

Well, I think -- we don't disclose what sales were in the fourth quarter, but what we can say is that we are working with a number of CPG companies to help them determine what they can say about the product, its efficacy, and really support the rollout of different brands of getting this as an ingredient in there. And what we're seeing is some interesting traction there.

嗯，我認為——我們不會透露第四季度的銷售情況，但我們可以說的是，我們正在與多家 CPG 公司合作，幫助他們確定他們可以對產品及其功效說些什麼，並真正支持不同品牌將其作為一種成分加入產品中。我們在那裡看到了一些有趣的進展。

This is the kind of product that requires consumer education and so our CPG customers are investing a lot to educate customers on how to use the product, and we're just really confident that we're going to continue to see traction. This is a hot topic in our environment today and a lot of people are trying to figure out what do they do after they're done using the pharmaceutical products. And this is a great solution to that problem.

這類產品需要對消費者進行教育，因此我們的 CPG 客戶投入了大量資金來教育客戶如何使用該產品，我們非常有信心我們將繼續看到發展勢頭。這是當今環境中的一個熱門話題，很多人都在試圖弄清楚使用完藥品後該做什麼。這是解決該問題的絕佳方法。

Derrick Whitfield, Texas Capital.

德州首府的德里克·惠特菲爾德。

Thanks for taking my questions. Also congrats to both Brad and Bob on your respective announcements.

感謝您回答我的問題。也祝賀布拉德和鮑伯各自的公告。

With my --

與我的--

(multiple speakers) Welcome back, Derrick.

（多位發言者）歡迎回來，德瑞克。

Happy to be back, guys. With my first question, I wanted to lean in on 45Z from a macro perspective because I know you guys are consistently calculating real-time spreads for the sector. While I agree 45Z was exceptionally positive for your business for both the upstream and downstream segments, the marginal SBO RD operator has taken a near $0.80 per gallon hit, and that has been partially offset with lower SBO costs.

很高興回來，夥計們。對於我的第一個問題，我想從宏觀角度來談談 45Z，因為我知道你們一直在計算該行業的即時利差。雖然我同意 45Z 對您上游和下游業務都產生了極其積極的影響，但邊際 SBO RD 運營商每加侖遭受了近 0.80 美元的打擊，而這部分被較低的 SBO 成本所抵消。

But from here, it seems that to us that either the RIN has to improve or SBO has to go lower to further offset that loss, assuming we still need those volumes after backing out [RDM] biodiesel imports. To you guys, like, what does your crystal ball say on how this market will firm?

但從目前的情況來看，在我們看來，要么 RIN 必須提高，要么 SBO 必須降低，以進一步彌補這一損失，假設在停止 [RDM] 生物柴油進口後我們仍然需要這些數量。對你們來說，你們的水晶球能夠預測這個市場會如何走強嗎？

Yeah, look, this is Bob. I think -- so what I would add to your question is not only this 45Z kind of lay these things out and make it challenging from a CI score standpoint for some others, but there's a lot of complexity inside 45Z in terms of how to comply, certifications required, different mix of feedstocks for different products.

是的，看，這是鮑伯。我認為——所以我想補充的是，對於您的問題來說，不僅 45Z 將這些內容列出來並從 CI 分數的角度對其他一些內容構成挑戰，而且 45Z 內部在如何遵守、所需的認證、不同產品的不同原料組合等方面都存在很多複雜性。

Diamond Green is really well positioned to understand that up front and prepare for that and be agile as it works through that. We think that a lot of companies are going to struggle, with that in addition to just general eligibility. And so all of that really points towards lower production of biofuels, fewer imports of biofuels, which decreases RIN production and increases the value of RINs and LCFS credits.

Diamond Green 確實處於非常有利的位置，能夠提前了解這一點、做好準備，並在處理這一問題時保持敏捷。我們認為，除了一般的資格問題之外，許多公司都將面臨困境。因此，所有這些實際上都表明生物燃料產量下降，生物燃料進口量減少，從而減少了 RIN 產量並增加了 RIN 和 LCFS 信用的價值。

And so, we're seeing it already. It's just that RINs don't trade like a like a mature futures market would trade where you've got a lot of speculative liquidity in the market and it's valuing products in the forward book. We need to see the tightness in the near-term supply and demand before we see price reaction, but we're starting to see that, and our crystal ball says that we're going to continue to see more of that as the year goes on.

所以，我們已經看到它了。只是 RIN 的交易方式與成熟的期貨市場不同，在成熟的期貨市場中，市場中存在大量投機流動性，而且 RIN 是在遠期帳簿中對產品進行估價。我們需要先看到短期供需緊張的情況，然後才能看到價格反應，但我們已經開始看到這種情況了，而且我們的預測表明，隨著時間的推移，我們將繼續看到更多這種情況。

Terrific. It may be focusing on the upstream aspect of 45Z. as you guys commented on backing out [yuko] imports and removing canola certainly increases the value of SBO and it should also increase the relative value of your domestic fats. Are you guys seeing greater non-DGD demand to start the year, meaning are your competitors getting better at running waste mats?

了不起。它可能專注於 45Z 的上游方面。正如你們所評論的，停止 [yuko] 進口和去除油菜籽肯定會提高 SBO 的價值，也應該會提高國內脂肪的相對價值。你們是否看到今年年初非 DGD 需求增加，這意味著你們的競爭對手在處理廢料墊方面做得越來越好？

This is Matt again. I would say that yes, we are, although I would say it's still early in the game. There's been just so much time and energy spent on digesting the 45Z and what that means and how that all plays, and there was also a lot of, call it, logistical preparation going into the transition from '24 to '25. So yes, we have, but it's a little bit slower to play out than what you might imagine, but we fully expect that to continue.

我又是馬特。我想說，是的，我們確實在這麼做，儘管我認為現在還處於遊戲的早期階段。我們花了大量的時間和精力去消化 45Z，了解它意味著什麼以及它如何發揮作用，而且在從 '24 到 '25 的過渡期間，我們也做了很多後勤準備。是的，我們已經實現了，但是實現的速度比你想像的要慢一些，但我們完全希望這種情況能夠繼續下去。

Pooran Sharma, Stephens.

普蘭夏爾馬，史蒂芬斯。

Thanks for the question. I wanted to start off and just kind of dig into the dividend. On the release you mentioned that the JV's debt free, so, an uplift to the distributions. And then the January figure was pretty large so just want to get your thoughts on how to think about that dividend for the year. Is January -- is there something in there that that made that number large or -- just any color on that would be helpful?

謝謝你的提問。我想先深入探討一下股息。在發布會上您提到合資公司沒有債務，因此分配增加。一月份的數字相當大，所以我只是想聽聽您對如何考慮今年的股息的看法。一月份——是否存在某些因素導致該數字變大，或者——任何相關顏色都有幫助嗎？

Yeah, this is Brad. We've mentioned before, but I'll repeat it's a monthly distribution calculation on a given day. So why do I say that's a good question. I mean, the $86 million obviously was a was a calculation off the very end of 2024.

是的，這是布拉德。我們之前提到過，但我再重複一遍，這是某一天的每月分配計算。那我為什麼說這是一個好問題呢？我的意思是，8600 萬美元顯然是根據 2024 年底的情況計算的。

There is a third-party revolver, as you mentioned, that the JV's debt free when a distribution is made, but because it's on a given day with some forward-looking forecasting involved, it'll be kind of up and down, but as we look at '25 and moving into the PTC. You saw what the number was for the full-year '24. What I would say out there is where we see things right now, we see distributions and obviously with a with a solid start there being greater than '24.

正如您所提到的，存在第三方循環信貸，即合資企業在分配時無債務，但因為它是在某一天涉及一些前瞻性預測，所以它會有所上下波動，但當我們展望'25並進入PTC時。您看到了 24 年全年的數字。我想說的是，我們現在看到的情況是，我們看到了分佈，顯然有一個良好的開端，其規模大於 24。

Is there going to be a distribution every month? You never know. It just depends on that day. But we see, obviously, great momentum going into 2025. And probably see it in a larger distributions in total and the way that works is going to be, as you may recall, PTC coming back through the JV outside the distribution policy, the PTC credits that are sold as we monetize them, those will come back to Diamond or to Darling via Diamond. And then that combined with dividends that we would foresee out of there, the combination of those two, we would see being somewhat larger than this past year.

每個月都會有分配嗎？你永遠不知道。這取決於那一天。但我們顯然看到，2025 年將出現強勁勢頭。並且可能在總體上看到更大的分佈，其運作方式將是，正如您可能還記得的那樣，PTC 通過分銷政策之外的合資企業返還，在我們將其貨幣化時出售的 PTC 信用額度，這些將通過 Diamond 返回 Diamond 或 Darling。然後結合我們預見的股息，這兩項的結合將比去年略高。

I would just add on to that that other than our two ongoing catalyst turnarounds in Q1, looking forward, do not see anything in terms of significant CapEx beyond what would be just normal run rate CapEx.

我想補充一點，除了第一季正在進行的兩個催化劑轉變之外，展望未來，我們沒有看到任何超出正常運作率資本支出的重大資本支出。

Got it appreciate that color, and I guess just as a follow up here. Wanted to dig into the SAF opportunity a little bit more. From the operational side, I think you guys mentioned that the incremental production costs are lower for lower cost operators like yourselves. I just wanted to get some color around that. And then secondly, if you could maybe just talk about maybe the progress you've been making on the commercial side. You've made some announcements within the past month but just wondering if you could kind of give us a state of the union on that.

我明白了，很欣賞那種顏色，我想這只是一個後續行動。想要更深入了解 SAF 機會。從營運方面來看，我認為你們提到過，對於像你們這樣的低成本營運商來說，增量生產成本較低。我只是想給它添加一些色彩。其次，您能否談談您在商業方面的進展？您在過去一個月內發布了一些聲明，但我只是想問一下您是否可以就此向我們介紹一下情況。

Here, this is Matt again. I would say that from a from a cost standpoint, yes, we believe that we are favored or in a strong position in terms of our cost to operate the SAF production. And then you're right, we have made some announcements on some of the commercial contracts that we've made. Just point out that not all of these contracts come on to a public release for competitive reasons. In many cases, the -- our customer chooses not to make a public release, but we see strong demand continued through '25 and '26, not only in the US but also in in Europe.

再一次，我是馬特。我想說，從成本的角度來看，是的，我們相信，就 SAF 生產營運成本而言，我們是佔優勢或處於強勢地位。你說得對，我們已經宣布了一些我們簽訂的商業合約。需要指出的是，出於競爭原因，並非所有這些合約都會公開發布。在許多情況下，我們的客戶選擇不公開發布，但我們看到強勁的需求將持續到25年和26年，不僅在美國，而且在歐洲。

Heather Jones, Heather Jones Research.

希瑟瓊斯，希瑟瓊斯研究。

Congratulations on the retirement, Brad. It's been great working with you for many, many years.

恭喜你退休，布拉德。多年來與您共事非常愉快。

So my question was on fat pricing. So I think, Matt, you mentioned that the catalyst change is still ongoing at Diamond Green, but I mean we've seen very strong moves in fat pricing over the past few weeks here in the US and then European fats have just taken off.

我的問題是關於脂肪定價。因此我認為，馬特，您提到 Diamond Green 的催化劑變化仍在進行中，但我的意思是，我們看到過去幾週美國的脂肪價格出現了非常強勁的波動，然後歐洲脂肪的價格剛剛開始上漲。

So in the US market, is that just simply a function of just a sharp shut-off of feedstock imports? Is it the commission in a [geyser] expansion. Just what do you see driving that giving you all are in the catalyst change and the uncertainty around 45Z, there's been some pull back in producer demand. So I would just love to see hear what you all have seen in that market.

那麼在美國市場，這是否只是原料進口急劇停止的結果？這是 [geyser] 擴張中的佣金嗎？您認為推動這一切的因素是什麼？所以我很想聽聽大家對這個市場的看法。

Sure, Heather. First of all, keep in mind that we -- our catalyst change is not across all of DGD 3. So while we have had in the month of January, a catalyst change in DGD 2 and then DGD 1 and through the course of this month, but we still have been able to run at a, let's say, an expected rate on the plants that we have not had the changes on.

當然，希瑟。首先，請記住，我們的催化劑變化並未涵蓋整個 DGD 3。因此，雖然我們在 1 月對 DGD 2 和 DGD 1 進行了催化劑變更，並且在整個月內都進行了變更，但我們仍然能夠以預期的速率運行尚未進行變更的工廠。

So in other words, DGD1 ran in January and DGD 3 is running continuously. So we have continued to procure and originate fats on an ongoing basis. I would say that starting probably in early December, we saw a slowdown of imports. And that was, I think, largely related to just the transition from the BTC to the PTC. People were managing the inventories around that. And so that's picking up.

換句話說，DGD1 在一月份運行，而 DGD 3 正在持續運行。因此，我們一直在持續採購和生產脂肪。我想說，大概從 12 月初開始，我們就看到進口放緩。我認為這很大程度上與從 BTC 到 PTC 的過渡有關。人們正在管理周圍的庫存。所以這正在好轉。

And so we're trying to get back to -- the market is trying to get back to a standard run rate and that's refilling the pipeline, I think, in many cases, and you're right, we have seen a significant bump in fat prices, but it's something that -- it's obviously market driven. And not only is DGD continue to buy, but the other producers in the market are also buying as well.

因此，我們正試圖回到——市場正試圖回到標準運行率，這就是在重新填充管道，我認為，在很多情況下，你是對的，我們已經看到脂肪價格大幅上漲，但這顯然是由市場驅動的。而且不僅DGD繼續購買，市場上的其他生產商也在購買。

Yeah, I would just add, Heather, this is Bob. 2025 is, let's say, it's kind of the first year where we've got substantial SAF demand from a volume standpoint. And what we're seeing is as we sort of move into 2025, the availability broadly in the market of SAF is, it's not quite where a lot of others suggested it would be. And so we're just seeing a tightness of the S&D and prices are falling.

是的，我只想補充一下，希瑟，這是鮑伯。可以說，2025 年是我們從數量角度對 SAF 需求大幅增加的第一年。我們看到，隨著我們進入 2025 年，SAF 在市場上的廣泛可用性並不像許多人所預測的那樣。因此，我們看到標準與報價的緊縮和價格的下跌。

And following up on that and the European piece, I mean, [yuko] have been getting stronger, all through late '24 and continues to be strong, but the animal fats have taken off and is that related to the new SAF mandates there and having to -- can't use vegetable oil for those? I mean, what do you all see driving that business?

接下來是歐洲的情況，我的意思是，[yuko] 一直變得越來越強，直到 2024 年末才停止，並且繼續保持強勢，但動物脂肪卻開始流行，這是否與那里新的 SAF 規定有關，並且不能使用植物油？我的意思是，你們認為是什麼推動了這項業務？

I think first of all, animals, I mean if you look at 45Z, that's very supportive to global animal fat, so that's probably where -- what's driving a lot of that European SAF demand as well is going to support that. So I think really, it's all those things combined that's moving us in that direction.

我認為首先是動物，我的意思是如果你看看 45Z，它對全球動物脂肪非常有支持作用，所以這可能是推動歐洲 SAF 需求的因素也將支持這一點。所以我認為，實際上所有這些因素共同推動著我們朝著這個方向前進。

Andrew Strelzik, BMO Capital Markets.

BMO資本市場部的 Andrew Strelzik。

Thanks for taking the questions. My first one, I wanted to ask about the focus on operational excellence, which obviously we've talked about in prior quarters as well. But can you talk about anything incremental that happened on that front in the fourth quarter, maybe even into 2025, given kind of the decoupling of the trends in fats and your margins, is there a way to frame the contribution from that in the quarter?

感謝您回答這些問題。我的第一個問題是關於對卓越營運的關注，顯然我們在前幾季也討論過這個問題。但是，您能否談談第四季度在這方面發生的任何增量，甚至到 2025 年，考慮到脂肪趨勢和利潤率的脫鉤，有沒有辦法確定本季的貢獻？

I don't know that I would call something out specifically other than just what I would say is this is an ongoing effort and we're starting to see the dividends that we've done over the last two years, especially in the US and the eastern shore where we've done a lot of work to streamline and to add capacity, add reliability, and decrease cost to the system and that's showing now through the numbers.

我不知道我是否應該特別指出一些事情，除了我想說這是一項持續的努力，我們開始看到過去兩年來所取得的成果，特別是在美國和東海岸，我們做了很多工作來簡化和增加容量，提高可靠性，降低系統成本，現在這些都通過數字得到了體現。

Yeah, and I would say, Andrew, I mean, globally, when you get into a deflationary market which we were in since, really the winter of '23 and all -- and most of '24, it just takes a while to make a lot of adjustments out there on the procurement side. Each contract, each supplier, each geography is a little bit different. Same goes for the Rousselot business and it -- we're now starting to see the fruits of our labor of that starting to flow through the P&Ls here.

是的，我想說，安德魯，我的意思是，從全球來看，當你進入通貨緊縮市場時，就像我們從 23 年冬天開始以及 24 年的大部分時間所處的狀態一樣，在採購方面需要一段時間才能做出很多調整。每個合約、每個供應商、每個地區都有點不同。對於 Rousselot 的業務也是如此——我們現在開始看到我們的勞動成果開始流經這裡的損益表。

There's been a lot of -- we've always tried to operate as a low-cost operator out there, not mounting giant cost cutting initiatives because you shouldn't be in that position anyway. Our biggest piece is simply in the procurement side and making sure that we get compensated for the risk we're taking. Kind of the replacement cost of equipment out there has skyrocketed.

有很多——我們一直試圖作為低成本運營商運營，而不是採取大規模的成本削減舉措，因為無論如何你都不應該處於那個位置。我們最大的責任只是在採購方面，並確保我們所承擔的風險能夠得到補償。那裡的設備更換成本已經猛漲。

And ultimately, it just takes a little while. I don't know that we made a lot of friends and a lot of abattoirs and slaughterhouses and integrated providers around the world, but they also recognize that our reliability has to be incented and paid for, and I think I'm very proud of what the team did.

最終，這只需要一點時間。我不知道我們是否在世界各地結交了很多朋友、很多屠宰場、屠宰場和綜合供應商，但他們也認識到我們的可靠性需要激勵和付費，我認為我為團隊所做的事情感到非常自豪。

Okay, that's helpful color. And then I wanted to ask about also the food segment where you had a nice sequential step-up quarter over quarter. Is there seasonality in that business that would have helped that? Are you seeing kind of underlying improvements? Maybe you could talk about what you're seeing in terms of destocking and demand and competitive dynamics that you've addressed in the in the past couple of quarters.

好的，這是有用的顏色。然後我還想問一下食品部門的情況，你們的銷售額每季都出現了良好的連續成長。該行業的季節性是否會對此有所幫助？您是否看到了一些潛在的改進？也許您可以談談過去幾季您在去庫存、需求和競爭動態方面看到的情況。

Yeah, I don't think there's a tremendous amount of seasonality in the business, but I think you touched on something that's important, and we had been in a market that was relatively high and inventories has been destocking, and we're starting to see -- kind of get nearing the end of that and some improvement. So sales are good and margins are stable.

是的，我認為業務中沒有太多的季節性，但我認為你提到了一些重要的事情，我們一直處於一個相對較高的市場，庫存一直在減少，我們開始看到 - 這種情況即將結束，並且有所改善。因此銷售情況良好，利潤穩定。

Matthew Blair, TPH.

馬修·布萊爾，TPH。

Brad, congrats on your long and successful tenure and wishing you the best on your future endeavors.

布拉德，恭喜你長期成功的任職，並祝你未來一切順利。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Circling back to the 2025 guide, if I heard correctly, it sounds like the core business would be around [900 to a billion], that's included in that guide. If we analyze Q4, I think we're looking around [840], but Q4 does tend to have some seasonal tailwinds in feed.

回顧 2025 年的指南，如果我沒有聽錯的話，聽起來核心業務將在 [900 到 10 億] 左右，這包含在該指南中。如果我們分析第四季度，我想我們正在尋找[840]，但第四季度確實傾向於在飼料方面有一些季節性的順風。

So could you talk about what's the incremental upside into 2025? Is that simply higher [fats] pricing from 45Z that it's boosting feed and are there any other growth initiatives or what else is helping push the numbers up for your core business in 2025?

那麼您能談談 2025 年的增量成長空間嗎？這是否僅僅是因為 45Z 提高了脂肪定價，從而促進了飼料產量的增加？ 還有其他成長舉措嗎？

Oh, this is Randy, Matt. I mean, when I take [233] and multiply times 4, I get [932]. That's before fat prices started to go up here. We've seen -- fat prices were relatively flat in the January results as we saw, but they've accelerated, $0.04 to $0.05 a pound in the February period here, and that'll start to flow through.

哦，這是蘭迪，馬特。我的意思是，當我取 [233] 並乘以 4 時，我得到[932]那是在這裡脂肪價格開始上漲之前。我們已經看到——正如我們所見，1 月份的脂肪價格相對平穩，但 2 月份脂肪價格加速上漲，達到每磅 0.04 至 0.05 美元，並且這種上漲趨勢將開始顯現。

So clearly procurement improvements that we referenced in the last question, improving fat prices and demand for low CI feedstocks both from DGD and other processors. Protein demand around the world feels pretty darn strong. I think that's been referenced by the soybean guys, there's strong demand for protein out there, so we feel pretty good about what's going on there. The Rousselot business is doing quite well and -- Bob anything you want to add?

因此，我們在上一個問題中提到的採購改進顯然提高了脂肪價格，並增加了 DGD 和其他加工商的低 CI 原料的需求。全球對蛋白質的需求似乎相當強勁。我認為大豆產業人士已經提到了這一點，市場對蛋白質的需求強勁，因此我們對目前的情況感到十分滿意。Rousselot 的業務發展相當不錯——Bob 您還有什麼要補充的嗎？

I think we covered on the last question. Demand has been solid and margins are stable and we've got some new products on the market, so --

我想我們已經討論過最後一個問題了。需求一直很強勁，利潤也很穩定，而且我們在市場上推出了一些新產品，因此--

Sounds good. And then you're aiming to pay down about $400 million of debt in 2024. Looks like you almost hit that target. Could you discuss any targets for debt reduction in 2025 or 2026?

聽起來不錯。你的目標是在 2024 年償還約 4 億美元的債務。看起來你幾乎已經達到目標了。您能討論一下 2025 年或 2026 年的減債目標嗎？

Yeah, Matthew, this is Brad. In 2025, where we see things right now and the guys have been talking about kind of the environment right now that's recently showing some move up. We see debt reduction outside anything abnormal, anywhere from $350 million to $500 million this coming year. Randy said earlier, obviously our -- where we're headed is 2.5 times on leverage.

是的，馬修，這是布萊德。到 2025 年，我們看到的情況和大家談論的當前環境最近出現了一些變化。我們認為今年的債務減少將超出正常水平，約 3.5 億美元至 5 億美元。蘭迪之前說過，顯然我們的目標——槓桿率要達到 2.5 倍。

I think, by the end of this year, we're going to be very far along that path with that debt reduction. Yes, we're about a year behind, but due to market conditions, that hit us about 15 months ago. But that's kind of the outlook that we see right now.

我認為，到今年年底，我們將在減債方面取得很大進展。是的，我們落後了大約一年，但由於市場狀況，大約 15 個月前我們就遇到了這個問題。但這就是我們現在看到的前景。

Yeah, and I mean it's not hard to do the math. You're at $4 billion now, if you pay down $400 million to $500 million next year, you take it to $3.6 billion, you get to [$1,350 billion to $1.40 billion] and you're at the 2.5 times.

是的，我的意思是做數學題並不難。你現在是 40 億美元，如果你明年償還 4 億到 5 億美元，那麼它將達到 36 億美元，達到 [13,500 億美元到 14 億美元]，就是 2.5 倍。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Tom Palmer, Citigroup. Tom, please ensure your line is unmuted to ask your question.

花旗集團的湯姆·帕爾默。湯姆，請確保你的線路未靜音，以便提問。

Davis Sunderland, Baird.

戴維斯桑德蘭，貝爾德。

Thank you for the time. I appreciate you taking the question. I just want to start by adding my congratulations to Brad and Bob. Thank you for all the help, Brad.

感謝您抽出時間。感謝您回答這個問題。首先我要向布萊德和鮑伯表示祝賀。謝謝你的幫助，布拉德。

Most of my questions have already been answered. If I could just circle back to one about SAF. Randy, I think you talked earlier in 2024 about contracting and the process for these SAF contracts taking longer than you guys had initially planned just due to many different suppliers in the supply chain and moving pieces in the market and obviously just being a new product.

我的大部分問題已經得到解答了。如果我可以回到關於 SAF 的問題。蘭迪，我想你在 2024 年早些時候談到了簽約問題，這些 SAF 合約的流程比你們最初計劃的要長，這是因為供應鏈中有許多不同的供應商，市場上的零件不斷變動，而且顯然只是一種新產品。

And I just wondered, is there any sense of now that some deals are out there and there's a template for how to do these deals, maybe any kind of acceleration with new deals that you're seeing now having moved into 2025 or how do we think about that market developing from your guys' contracting perspective?

我只是想知道，現在是否有一些交易存在，並且有關於如何達成這些交易的模板，也許您現在看到的任何形式的新交易都已進入 2025 年，或者我們如何從你們的承包角度看待這個市場的發展？

This is Matt. I'll take that one. I would say that we continue to contract on SAF for one, two, and three years going forward, mostly front-end loaded. And I think there was just a, call it, a digestibility or an acceptability to can DGD actually come to market with the SAF in a reliable way and we're now have the -- we've proven that we can and we're confident. So we're actually seeing a pickup in interest going forward, but despite the fact that we'd already had a pretty healthy sales book, already developed.

這是馬特。我要那個。我想說的是，我們未來會繼續簽訂一、二、三年的 SAF 合同，而且大部分是前端付款。我認為，DGD 能否以可靠的方式與 SAF 一起進入市場，取決於其可消化性或可接受性，現在我們已經證明我們可以，我們有信心。因此，我們實際上看到了未來興趣的回升，但儘管我們已經擁有相當健康的銷售記錄，但已經發展起來了。

Great, I'll take the rest offline. Thanks, guys.

太好了，我將把剩下的部分離線。謝謝大家。

Betty Jang, Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Betty Jang。請繼續。

Thanks for taking my question. For my first question, I wanted to ask about RNG, what kinds of opportunities are you guys looking at? And specifically what types of feedstocks? And how do you see your competitive advantage translating into the RNG space?

感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於 RNG 的，你們正在尋找什麼樣的機會？具體有哪些類型的原料？您如何看待自己的競爭優勢在 RNG 領域的展現？

Hey, this is Bob. I'll take that one, Betty. So first I'll just start by saying that we have a large, call it, RNG electricity business in Europe today. So it is a capability that Darling has and understands quite well. What we've seen more recently is a lot of interest in voluntary demand for renewable natural gas that would support investments in the United States. We started by forming an agreement with a group called Green Gas where we are covering our wastewater treatment ponds. And converting biomethane into renewable natural gas that way.

嘿，這是鮑伯。我想要這個，貝蒂。首先我要說的是，我們目前在歐洲擁有龐大的 RNG 電力業務。所以，這是達林所擁有並且非常了解的一種能力。最近我們看到，人們對再生天然氣的自願需求表現出濃厚興趣，這將支持對美國的投資。我們首先與一個名為「綠色氣體」的組織達成協議，由該組織負責我們的廢水處理池。並透過這種方式將生物甲烷轉化為再生天然氣。

We are looking at opportunities to scale that up and Darling, with our position in the United States, our access to freight, animal waste streams, and food waste streams, we're really well positioned to pull that together and take advantage of what we see as an improved market. And so, we're continuing to evaluate that opportunity and we really, think the United States is a very interesting region to see that develop.

我們正在尋找擴大規模的機會，親愛的，憑藉我們在美國的地位、我們的貨運管道、動物廢物流和食物廢物流，我們完全有能力將這些結合起來，並利用我們所看到的改善的市場。因此，我們正在繼續評估這個機會，我們真的認為美國是一個非常值得關注的地區。

That's helpful, thank you. For my second question I wanted to ask about CapEx. I think for 2024 it came in a bit lower than what we were expecting, at kind of the beginning of the year and also, you're seeing maybe a small step up to around [400] for 2025 if you could maybe just walk us through the moving pieces there.

這很有幫助，謝謝。我的第二個問題是關於資本支出 (CapEx) 的。我認為 2024 年的數字比我們在年初預期的要低一些，而且，您會看到 2025 年的數字可能會小幅上升至 [400] 左右，如果您可以向我們介紹一下那裡的變化情況的話。

Yeah, Betty, this is Randy. Yeah, [333] was the number for 2024, and right now, [400] has a little bit of growth CapEx and debottlenecking of different factories and also some greenfield construction of some new assets that we're working on out there right now. As we've explained to our team, as we build momentum during the year, that number will move around. But right now [400] feels like a good number.

是的，貝蒂，這是蘭迪。是的，[333] 是 2024 年的數字，現在，[400] 有一些成長資本支出和不同工廠的瓶頸消除，還有一些我們目前正在進行的新資產的綠地建設。正如我們向團隊解釋的那樣，隨著我們在這一年中不斷累積發展勢頭，這個數字將會改變。但目前看來，[400] 似乎是一個不錯的數字。

I think the thing that's most important for me and the team is that the number that we delivered last year did not capital deprive the assets out there and so there's -- I don't want it to be thought of as makeup capital because it wasn't, we just delayed some growth projects a year while we de-levered a little bit here, so [400] is a good number. As Brad said in his comments, judiciously manage it if we're wrong with something here and continue to put the company in good position for the future.

我認為對我和團隊來說最重要的是，我們去年實現的數字並沒有剝奪現有的資產，因此 - 我不想讓它被認為是補充資本，因為它不是，我們只是推遲了一些增長項目一年，同時我們在這裡稍微去槓桿，所以[400]是一個好數字。正如布拉德在他的評論中所說的那樣，如果我們在這裡遇到什麼問題，就明智地處理它，並繼續讓公司在未來處於良好的地位。

Jason Gabelman, TD Cowen.

傑森·加貝爾曼（Jason Gabelman），TD Cowen。

Thanks for taking my questions, and Brad, congrats on retirement. It was great working with you.

感謝您回答我的問題，布拉德，恭喜你退休。與您合作非常愉快。

The first question is kind of a broad policy one. Right now you're selling SAF into Europe, and Europe obviously has anti-dumping duties for renewable diesel and biodiesel, not for SAF then. Do you see that as a potential risk for your SAF sales into the region if that happens? Are you able to get grandfathered in because of your contracts or move volumes while retaining the margin? And then kind of a broader part of that, do you see any other regulatory risk out there besides, of course, the 45Z?

第一個問題是一個廣泛的政策問題。現在您正在向歐洲銷售 SAF，而歐洲顯然對再生柴油和生物柴油徵收反傾銷稅，而不是對 SAF 徵收。如果發生這種情況，您是否認為這會對您在該地區銷售的 SAF 造成潛在風險？您是否能夠因為自己的合約或轉移量而獲得豁免，同時保留利潤？那麼從更廣泛的角度來看，除了 45Z 之外，您是否看到其他監管風險？

This is Matt. I would say there's a lot of hypothetical in that question in terms of the way that we would deal with that would be, if and when there is something that comes down the pipe, but today we don't see that on the horizon. (multiple speakers)

這是馬特。我想說，就我們處理這個問題的方式而言，有很多假設，如果有什麼事情發生，我們會採取什麼措施，但今天我們還沒有看到這種情況的發生。（多位發言者）

Yeah, I just say, look, I think with respect to sales to Europe, we're selling based on -- we sell a price that is -- we offer a price, and our customers are going to deal with certain regulatory hurdles if they need to get through those.

是的，我只是說，看，我認為就對歐洲的銷售而言，我們是基於——我們銷售一個價格——我們提供一個價格，如果我們的客戶需要通過這些價格，他們就會處理某些監管障礙。

We're not only selling to Europe, we're selling a lot in the United States as well. And so I think, Diamond Green is well balanced. As far as the regulatory environment in 45Z, I think, it's a good point because, we've gotten this notice and we're working with this notice. Could that notice change, or could a new notice be put out? That's certainly possible.

我們的產品不僅銷往歐洲，在美國的銷售也很好。所以我認為 Diamond Green 非常均衡。就 45Z 的監管環境而言，我認為這是一個很好的觀點，因為我們已經收到了這個通知，我們正在根據這個通知進行工作。該通知是否會更改，或是否會發布新的通知？這當然是有可能的。

But what we see is really broad bipartisan support for US biofuel policy, maybe not all environmental policy, but biofuel policy. And so, however that shakes out, we're confident given sort of the global network that we have and the integration between Darling and Diamond Green Diesel and Valero that we'd be able to adapt to whatever regulation unfolds.

但我們看到，美國生物燃料政策確實得到了兩黨的廣泛支持，也許不是所有環境政策，而是生物燃料政策。因此，無論結果如何，我們有信心，憑藉我們擁有的全球網絡以及 Darling、Diamond Green Diesel 和 Valero 之間的整合，我們將能夠適應任何監管變化。

Yeah, and I think just following up on Matt, I thought he did a nice job of [explaining]. At the end of the day our customers don't feel that or share that risk right now, as it's optional origin when they pick up out of the Gulf where they're going with the product, whether it's the West Coast, whether it's up north or whether it's on to Europe.

是的，我想順便說一下馬特，我認為他做得很好[解釋]。最終，我們的客戶現在不會感受到或分擔這種風險，因為當他們從墨西哥灣提貨時，他們的產品目的地是可選的，無論是西海岸，無論是向北還是向歐洲。

Got it. Great, thanks for that color. And my follow up is on the LCFS program. I think there was some hope with the new amendment that that LCFS prices would start to move higher. They've clearly come off lows, but maybe not at the triple digit levels that some had hoped, hoping you could reflect on kind of why you think LCFS prices have not rebounded maybe to the expectations that some have had and your assumption for LCFS prices for 2025 within your guidance.

知道了。太好了，謝謝這個顏色。我正在跟進 LCFS 計劃。我認為新的修正案為低碳食品標準價格帶來一些上漲的希望。它們顯然已經脫離低谷，但可能沒有達到一些人希望的三位數水平，希望您能夠反思為什麼您認為 LCFS 價格沒有反彈至一些人的預期，以及您對 2025 年 LCFS 價格的假設是否在您的指導範圍內。

Yeah, so I think -- and this is Bob. The amendments that (inaudible) passed would be effective April 1, and we're just continuing to wait for confirmation of those amendments. I think if the market sees that we'll start to see that change, but similar to RINs, LCFS credits, they don't trade like a mature futures market does.

是的，所以我認為——這是鮑勃。(聽不清楚)通過的修正案將於 4 月 1 日生效，我們正在繼續等待這些修正案的確認。我認為如果市場看到這一點，我們就會開始看到這種變化，但與 RIN、LCFS 信用類似，它們的交易方式並不像成熟的期貨市場那樣。

And so, we are coming into this year with a lot of credits of big bank, the market really needs to eat through that bank before we start to see credit values increase. And so specifically with LCFS credits that's probably something that happens slowly throughout the course of the year.

因此，我們今年將迎來大量大型銀行的信貸，市場確實需要消化這些銀行的信貸，然後我們才能開始看到信貸價值上升。因此，具體到低碳食品學分，這可能是全年緩慢發生的事情。

Thank you. This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Randall Stuewe for any closing comments.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議交還給 Randall Stuewe，請他發表最後評論。

Thanks, everybody. Great questions today. Really appreciate it. Well done by our team describing the situation. Brad, we want to just say thank you for everything you've done for 36 years. You'll truly be missed. And as always, if you have additional questions, feel free to follow up with Suann. Stay safe. We'll see many of you in the conferences over the next coming couple months here. Thank you.

謝謝大家。今天的問題很棒。真的很感激。我們的團隊很好地描述了情況。布拉德，我們只想對你 36 年來所做的一切表示感謝。我們確實會想念你的。像往常一樣，如果您還有其他問題，請隨時與 Suann 聯繫。注意安全。我們將在接下來的幾個月的會議上見到你們。謝謝。

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。