Darling Ingredients Inc (DAR) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Darling Ingredients Inc. Conference Call to discuss the company's fourth quarter and fiscal year 2023 results. (Operator Instructions) Today's call is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Darling Ingredients Inc. 電話會議，討論該公司第四季和 2023 財年的業績。 （操作員說明）今天的通話正在錄音。

I would like to turn the call over to Ms. Suann Guthrie. Please go ahead.

我想把電話轉給 Suann Guthrie 女士。請繼續。

Thank you. Thank you for joining the Darling Ingredients' Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year 2023 Earnings Call. Here with me today are Mr. Randall C. Stuewe, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Brad Phillips, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Bob Day, Chief Strategy Officer; and Mr. Matt Jansen, Chief Operating Officer of North America.

謝謝。感謝您參加 Darling Ingredients 的第四季和 2023 財年財年財報電話會議。今天和我在一起的還有董事長兼執行長 Randall C. Stuewe 先生； Brad Phillips 先生，財務長； Bob Day 先生，首席策略長；以及北美首席營運長 Matt Jansen 先生。

Our fourth quarter and fiscal year 2023 earnings news release and slide presentation are available on the Investor page under the Events and Presentations tab on our corporate website and will be joined by a transcript of this call once it is available. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events.

我們的第四季度和2023 財年收益新聞稿和幻燈片演示可在我們公司網站“活動和演示”選項卡下的“投資者”頁面上獲取，一旦發布，將附上本次電話會議的文字記錄。在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，即對未來事件的預測、預測或其他陳述。

These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results can materially differ because factors discussed in yesterday's press release and the comments made during this conference call and the Risk Factors section of our Form 10-K, 10-Q and other reported filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We do not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statement.

這些陳述基於當前的預期和假設，存在風險和不確定性。實際結果可能存在重大差異，因為昨天的新聞稿中討論的因素以及本次電話會議期間發表的評論以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的10-K、10-Q 表格和其他報告文件中的風險因素部分。我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的責任。

Now I will hand the call over to Randy.

現在我將把電話轉交給蘭迪。

Okay. Thanks, Suann. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining our fourth quarter and fiscal year '23 earnings call. In 2023, Darling Ingredients delivered its sixth consecutive record year in terms of combined adjusted EBITDA at $1.61 billion. The vertical platform, we have built, demonstrated its ability to perform solidly despite significant volatility in the global food, feed and fuel ingredient markets.

好的。謝謝，蘇安。大家，早安。感謝您參加我們的第四季和 23 財年財報電話會議。 2023 年，Darling Ingredients 的綜合調整後 EBITDA 達到 16.1 億美元，連續第六年創紀錄。儘管全球食品、飼料和燃料成分市場大幅波動，我們建立的垂直平台仍展現出穩健運作的能力。

Turning to the Feed Ingredients segment. Despite lower prices for most finished goods, our global spread management process and increased volumes compared to 2022 helped to offset the impact. Our laser focus on margin management and continued strategic review of our asset mix, both segment and geographic, ensured our margins remained in alignment with our expectations. In addition, during 2023, we made the decision to close two bakery plants, Muscatine, Iowa and Bryan, Texas.

轉向飼料原料部分。儘管大多數製成品的價格較低，但與 2022 年相比，我們的全球價差管理流程和增加的產量有助於抵消影響。我們高度重視利潤管理，並對我們的資產組合（包括細分市場和地理）進行持續的策略審查，確保我們的利潤率保持與我們的預期一致。此外，我們決定在 2023 年期間關閉愛荷華州馬斯卡廷和德克薩斯州布萊恩的兩家麵包店工廠。

Turning to our Specialty Food Ingredients segment. Raw material volumes increased about 11% year-over-year, primarily due to our Gelnex acquisition and continued product mix shift. We continue to see strong performance and continued growth in China and North America consumer markets I remain very optimistic about our health and nutrition business line. Hydrolyzed collagen will continue to play a key role in our long-term growth strategy.

轉向我們的特色食品配料部分。原料數量較去年同期成長約 11%，這主要是由於我們收購 Gelnex 和持續的產品結構轉變。我們繼續看到中國和北美消費市場的強勁表現和持續成長，我對我們的健康和營養業務線仍然非常樂觀。水解膠原蛋白將繼續在我們的長期成長策略中發揮關鍵作用。

Leveraging our extensive research and development in this area, we have successfully isolated individual peptides with targeted benefits related to various health concerns such as glucose moderation and memory retention. The potential applications are expensive, and we are excited to introduce some of these innovative products to the market later this year.

利用我們在該領域的廣泛研究和開發，我們成功分離出具有與各種健康問題相關的目標益處的單一勝肽，例如血糖調節和記憶力維持。潛在的應用非常昂貴，我們很高興能在今年稍後向市場推出其中一些創新產品。

Turning to our Fuel segment. Our European Renewable Energy segment continues to deliver very strong results. Lower diesel prices, RINs and LCFS values and a lower of cost or market inventory valuation impacted DGD margins for the quarter. However, DGD had an impressive year with 1.25 billion gallons of renewable diesel sold at an EBITDA per gallon of $0.81, which is still above our 12-year-old investment case of $0.79 EBITDA per gallon.

轉向我們的燃料部分。我們的歐洲再生能源部門持續取得非常強勁的業績。柴油價格、RIN 和 LCFS 值的下降以及成本或市場庫存估值的下降影響了本季的 DGD 利潤率。然而，DGD 的這一年表現令人印象深刻，以每加侖 0.81 美元的 EBITDA 銷售了 12.5 億加侖可再生柴油，這仍然高於我們 12 年來每加侖 0.79 美元 EBITDA 的投資案例。

With this, I'd like to turn the call over to Brad to take us through some financial comments, and then I'll come back with my thoughts on the rest of '24. Brad?

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給 Brad，讓他帶我們發表一些財務評論，然後我會帶著我對 24 年剩餘時間的想法回來。布拉德？

Okay. Thanks, Randy. Net income for the fourth quarter of 2023 totaled $84.5 million or $0.52 per diluted share compared to net income of $156.6 million or $0.96 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2022. Net sales were $1.61 billion for the fourth quarter 2023 as compared to $1.77 billion for the fourth quarter 2022.

好的。謝謝，蘭迪。 2023 年第四季的淨利潤總計8,450 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益0.52 美元，而2022 年第四季的淨利潤為1.566 億美元，即稀釋後每股收益0.96 美元。2023 年第四季的淨銷售額為16.1 億美元，而2023 年第四季的淨銷售額為17.7 億美元2022 年第四季。

Operating income decreased $90.4 million to $158.8 million for the fourth quarter of 2023 compared to $249.2 million for the fourth quarter of 2022, primarily due to Darling share of Diamond Green Diesel's earnings decreasing $118.8 million attributable to lower RINs and LCFS values and a $60.9 million lower of cost or market adjustment. This decline in DGD's earnings was somewhat offset by Darling's Global Ingredients fourth quarter 2023 gross margin, increasing $47.6 million as compared to the fourth quarter of 2022 due to continued improvement from integration work within our acquired companies, which was supplemented in the fourth quarter by a reimbursement for certain costs related to Valley Proteins.

2023 年第四季的營業收入減少了9,040 萬美元，至1.588 億美元，而2022 年第四季為2.492 億美元，主要是由於RIN 和LCFS 值降低，Darling 在Diamond Green Diesel 的收益中所佔的份額減少了1.188 億美元，減少了6,090 萬美元成本或市場調整。 DGD 收益的下降在一定程度上被Darling's Global Ingredients 2023 年第四季度的毛利率所抵消，毛利率比2022 年第四季度增加了4760 萬美元，這是由於我們收購的公司內部整合工作的持續改進，第四季度的毛利率得到了補充報銷與 Valley Proteins 相關的某些費用。

In terms of nonoperating items, interest expense increased from $46.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2022 to $68.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2023, reflecting the acquisition of Gelnex earlier in 2023. For the three months ended December 30, 2023, the company recorded income tax expense of $7.2 million, yielding an effective tax rate of 7.7%, which differs from the federal statutory rate of 21% due primarily to biofuel tax incentives, the relative mix of earnings among jurisdictions with different tax rates, state income taxes, certain taxable income inclusion items in the U.S. based on foreign earnings and losses that provided no tax benefit.

就非經營項目而言，利息支出從2022年第四季的4,610萬美元增加到2023年第四季的6,850萬美元，反映出2023年稍早收購了Gelnex。截至2023年12月30日止三個月，該公司錄得所得稅費用為720 萬美元，有效稅率為7.7%，與21% 的聯邦法定稅率不同，這主要是由於生物燃料稅收激勵措施、不同稅率管轄區之間收入的相對組合、州所得稅、某些美國的應稅收入包含項目基於外國收入和損失，不提供稅收優惠。

The company's effective tax rate, excluding the biofuel tax incentives was 33% for the three months ended December 30, 2023. The company paid $24.9 million of income taxes in the fourth quarter. Net income for fiscal year 2023 totaled $647.7 million or $3.99 per diluted share compared to net income of $737.7 million or $4.49 per diluted share for fiscal year 2022.

截至2023年12月30日止三個月，該公司的有效稅率（不包括生質燃料稅優惠）為33%。該公司在第四季繳納了2,490萬美元的所得稅。 2023 財年的淨利總計 6.477 億美元，即稀釋後每股收益 3.99 美元，而 2022 財年淨利為 7.377 億美元，即稀釋後每股收益 4.49 美元。

Net sales were $6.79 billion for fiscal year 2023 as compared to $6.53 billion for fiscal year 2022. Operating income decreased $79.3 million to $949.7 million for fiscal 2023 compared to $1.03 billion for fiscal year 2022, primarily due to $107.3 million increase in depreciation and amortization and $105.9 million increase and selling, general and administrative expenses reflective of the acquisitions completed during fiscal years 2022 and 2023.

2023 財年的淨銷售額為67.9 億美元，而2022 財年為65.3 億美元。2023 財年的營業收入減少7,930 萬美元，至9.497 億美元，而2022 財年為10.3 億美元，主要是由於折舊舊和攤銷增加了1.073 億美元，增加 1.059 億美元以及銷售、一般和管理費用，反映了 2022 和 2023 財年完成的收購。

These expenses were primarily offset by $115.4 million gross margin improvement in the Global Ingredients business as reflected in the gross margin percent increasing in fiscal 2023 to 24.2% as compared to 23.4% for fiscal year 2022.

這些費用主要被全球原料業務毛利率提高 1.154 億美元所抵消，反映在 2023 財年毛利率百分比從 2022 財年的 23.4% 增至 24.2%。

There was a $94.3 million increase in nonoperating expenses in fiscal 2023 as compared to fiscal year 2022, which was primarily attributable to $133.7 million increase in interest expense for fiscal year 2023 to $259.2 million as compared to $125.6 million for fiscal 2022.

與 2022 財年相比，2023 財年的非營運支出增加了 9,430 萬美元，這主要是由於 2023 財年的利息支出增加了 1.337 億美元，達到 2.592 億美元，而 2022 財年為 1.256 億美元。

The increase in interest expense was somewhat offset by foreign currency gains as well as physical damage insurance recoveries. The company recorded income tax expense of $59.6 million for fiscal year 2023. The effective tax rate was 8.3% and cash tax payments for 2023 were $152.7 million. Now for 2024, we are expecting a 15% effective tax rate and cash taxes to be similar to 2023 of approximately $155 million.

利息支出的增加在一定程度上被外匯收益以及實物損壞保險賠償所抵銷。該公司2023財年的所得稅費用為5,960萬美元。有效稅率為8.3%，2023年的現金稅金為1.527億美元。現在，我們預計 2024 年的有效稅率為 15%，現金稅與 2023 年類似，約為 1.55 億美元。

The company's total debt outstanding at fiscal year-end 2023 was $4.4 billion as compared to $3.4 billion at fiscal year-end 2022. Our bank covenant leverage ratio at the end of fiscal 2023 was 3.26x. We currently have $832.5 million available on our revolving credit facility as of year-end. Capital expenditures totaled $174.9 million for the fourth quarter of 2023 and $555.5 million for fiscal year 2023.

該公司截至 2023 財年末的未償債務總額為 44 億美元，而 2022 財年末為 34 億美元。截至 2023 財年末，我們的銀行契約槓桿率為 3.26 倍。截至年底，我們的循環信貸額度目前為 8.325 億美元。 2023 年第四季的資本支出總額為 1.749 億美元，2023 財年的資本支出總額為 5.555 億美元。

The company repurchased approximately 926,000 shares of its common stock during fiscal year 2023 at a cost of approximately $52.9 million. The company enters fiscal year 2024 projecting $500 million in capital expenditures and is committed to applying our expected free cash flows to debt reduction. The company will continue to evaluate opportunistic share repurchases.

該公司在 2023 財年回購了約 926,000 股普通股，成本約為 5,290 萬美元。該公司進入 2024 財年，預計資本支出為 5 億美元，並致力於將我們預期的自由現金流用於減少債務。該公司將繼續評估機會性股票回購。

With that, Randy, I'll turn it back to you.

蘭迪，我會把它還給你。

Well done. Thank you, Brad. 2023 is in the record books, and we believe we are well positioned to once again deliver strong earnings and cash flow in 2024. We have built a well-balanced global business model between our Specialty Ingredients businesses and Diamond Green Diesel. It's a bit early to guide on 2024, as the global fats and proteins markets are a bit soft. This is a result of replenished global oilseed stocks, slower consumer -- global consumer demand and phantom or delayed start-ups of renewable diesel plants.

做得好。謝謝你，布拉德。 2023 年將被載入史冊，我們相信我們有能力在 2024 年再次實現強勁的盈利和現金流。我們在特種配料業務和鑽石綠柴油業務之間建立了均衡的全球業務模式。由於全球脂肪和蛋白質市場有點疲軟，現在預測 2024 年還為時過早。這是全球油籽庫存補充、消費放緩（全球消費需求）以及再生柴油廠開工不真實或延遲的結果。

However, let me be clear, if these plants get built and become more reliable and more renewable diesel comes on the market, we should see fat prices move higher. Clearly, the incentive is there to favor low CI waste fats versus refined soybean oil. And this is going to provide opportunity for our core ingredients business and ultimately benefit Diamond Green Diesel.

然而，讓我明確一點，如果這些工廠建成並變得更加可靠，並且市場上出現更多可再生柴油，我們應該會看到脂肪價格上漲。顯然，與精煉大豆油相比，人們傾向於選擇低 CI 廢油脂。這將為我們的核心原料業務提供機會，並最終使鑽石綠柴油受益。

Prioritizing cost management, working capital improvements and conducting a robust review of our global asset portfolio continues to be our main focus. We are taking a deep dive into every factory's contribution and reviewing opportunities to improve performance. Now DGD is performing well. And despite concerns about RIN markets and LCFS values, our outlook for this business remains very positive as decreasing fat prices are expected to bolster DGD margins.

優先考慮成本管理、改善營運資本以及對我們的全球資產組合進行嚴格審查仍然是我們的主要關注點。我們正在深入研究每個工廠的貢獻並審查提高績效的機會。現在DGD表現良好。儘管對 RIN 市場和 LCFS 價值感到擔憂，但我們對該業務的前景仍然非常樂觀，因為脂肪價格下降預計將提高 DGD 利潤率。

We are excited about entering the sustainable aviation fuel market in the near future and anticipate margins that are well within the expectations we have communicated. We remain committed to working our way toward investment grade through slightly reduced capital expenditures this year, a focus on lowering working capital and anticipated dividends from Diamond Green Diesel.

我們對在不久的將來進入永續航空燃料市場感到興奮，並預期利潤率將完全符合我們所傳達的預期。我們仍然致力於透過今年略微減少資本支出來實現投資等級，重點是降低營運資本和鑽石綠柴油的預期股息。

Starting with Q1 2024, we aim to accelerate our earnings schedule, and I anticipate we will release and host our Q1 call at the end of April. At this time, I'll be able to provide you more details on guidance and outlook on how I see the year shaping up.

從 2024 年第一季開始，我們的目標是加快獲利計劃，我預計我們將在 4 月底發布並舉辦第一季電話會議。此時，我將能夠向您提供更多關於我如何看待這一年的指導和展望的詳細資訊。

With that, let's go ahead and open it up to Q&A.

接下來，讓我們繼續進行問答。

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions) The first question comes from Tom Palmer from Citi.

我們現在開始問答環節。 （操作員說明） 第一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Tom Palmer。

I appreciate your comments about not issuing full year guidance at this point, just given some of the moving pieces. But maybe we could frame at least the first quarter, just given we're a couple of months in. Just any help maybe thinking about kind of the base business and then how margins look at DGD at least up to this point.

我感謝您對目前不發布全年指導意見的評論，只是給出了一些令人感動的內容。但也許我們至少可以框架第一季度，因為我們已經幾個月了。只要有任何幫助，也許可以考慮一下基本業務的類型，然後至少到目前為止，利潤率如何看待 DGD。

No, it's a fair question, Tom. This is Randy. It's been so easy to kind of forecast this business the last couple of years looking forward because we didn't have the fat price volatility that we've seen now. I mean between Q4 and Q1, we've seen fat prices come off at least another 20%. They've hit bottom here, is what I would say, in February.

不，這是一個公平的問題，湯姆。這是蘭迪。在過去幾年裡，預測這項業務的前景非常容易，因為我們沒有像現在這樣經歷劇烈的價格波動。我的意思是，在第四季和第一季之間，我們看到脂肪價格至少又下跌了 20%。我想說的是，他們在二月已經觸底了。

With your comment about two periods in the books, I've got one on the books in January. We had a pretty nice January on both sides of the business. So we feel pretty good about where we're positioned. But at the end of the day, we've always communicated that any movement in fat was worth about $12 million of EBITDA in the core ingredients business annually. And so clearly, we've moved lower. We moved lower from $0.54 in Q4 into around $0.40 in Q1 here. We're coming back. And so that's, to me, a little bit where my hesitancy is, is to try to do that.

根據你對書中兩個時期的評論，我在一月份的書中有了一個時期。一月份我們的業務雙方都度過了愉快的時光。所以我們對自己的定位感覺很好。但歸根結底，我們一直表示，脂肪的任何變動每年都會為核心原料業務帶來約 1,200 萬美元的 EBITDA。很明顯，我們已經走低了。我們從第四季的 0.54 美元降至第一季的 0.40 美元左右。我們回來了。所以，對我來說，我有點猶豫的地方就是嘗試這樣做。

Now what I will tell you is the DGD has now worked through its pipeline of expensive fat, and we're seeing margins improved there back to where we think they should be for the year. So I mean, at the end of the day, we came into the year, seeing or left 2023 having a view that we would have a very similar year and possibly improve with all the integrations of the acquisitions in 2024 and then fat prices move down sharply.

現在我要告訴你的是，DGD 現在已經完成了其昂貴的脂肪管道，我們看到利潤率有所改善，並回到了我們認為的今年應有的水平。所以我的意思是，歸根結底，我們進入了這一年，看到或離開了2023 年，我們認為我們將度過一個非常相似的一年，並且可能會隨著2024 年收購的所有整合而有所改善，然後脂肪價格會下跌急劇地。

Protein prices have contracted a little bit. But at the end of the day, that's related to kind of a slowdown in global consumer demand, some destocking, that should come back. We're starting to see that happen around the world.

蛋白質價格略有收縮。但歸根結底，這與全球消費者需求放緩以及一些去庫存有關，這種情況應該會回來。我們開始看到這種情況在世界各地發生。

So ultimately, like I said, I think we're -- I'll come back to you in April after I put a couple more months in the books here, and we see that truly the DGD can widen its margins out at the lower fat prices. And clearly, that's how we see the business model tracking. What I told to Matt and Bob and Brad is we -- our year is focused on execution and simply generating enough cash and managing capital outlays to pay debt down below $4 billion this year and be investment grade.

所以最終，就像我說的，我想我們——我會在4 月份再給你回复，我在這裡又花了幾個月的時間，我們看到DGD 確實可以在較低的水平上擴大其利潤率。脂肪價格。顯然，這就是我們如何看待商業模式追蹤。我告訴馬特、鮑勃和布拉德的是，我們這一年的重點是執行，只是產生足夠的現金和管理資本支出，以將今年的債務降至 40 億美元以下，並達到投資級別。

We don't have any bonds or notes coming due here until first quarter 2026. So we're not at any issue where we need to be doing something rapidly, and we have very, very favorably priced debt. We just want to -- we want to create value for the shareholder, get any concern that as the commodity markets in the world cycle here that this company is a very different company when we did the VION acquisition back in 2014, '15, very, very different set of dynamics now.

在 2026 年第一季之前，我們沒有任何債券或票據到期。因此，我們不存在任何需要迅速採取行動的問題，而且我們的債務定價非常非常優惠。我們只是想——我們想為股東創造價值，不要擔心，隨著世界大宗商品市場的循環，這家公司是一家與我們在 2014 年收購 VION 時非常不同的公司，'15，非常不同，現在的動態非常不同。

I think as I'll continue my rant here for a minute, clearly, the sustainable aviation piece is going to play a key role in widening those margins back at DGD. Clearly, Matt can comment on it later in the call here, we're seeing some really nice demand. And it's always the first movers. And everybody doesn't want to be the first mover here, but we're close.

我想，正如我將在這裡繼續咆哮一分鐘一樣，顯然，可持續航空部分將在擴大 DGD 的利潤方面發揮關鍵作用。顯然，馬特可以稍後在電話中對此發表評論，我們看到了一些非常好的需求。而且它總是先行者。每個人都不想成為這裡的先行者，但我們已經很接近了。

The margins are much better than they are in standard, what I call, [road] diesel or renewable diesel, and we're excited. And we'll do our best to get that plant online here sometime later this year and hopefully be up to full rate in '25 there. And then once again, we've changed our business model with the first mover advantage to where we were several years ago. So at that time, I hope I answered everything that you needed to hear.

利潤率比標準（我所說的道路）柴油或再生柴油好得多，我們很興奮。我們將盡最大努力讓工廠在今年稍後在這裡上線，並希望在 25 年達到滿載運作。然後，我們再次改變了具有先發優勢的商業模式，回到了幾年前的水平。所以當時，我希望我回答了你們需要聽到的一切。

Thanks for that detailed reply. Maybe I'll follow up quickly on -- you mentioned the expected distributions from DGD. Maybe we could just kind of check through some of the items that clear up to free that, right? You've got the debt at DGD. And then I don't know if you guys have commented, but any color on kind of CapEx expectations with DGD? Would it be just something comparable to 2023? Just try to kind of frame what type of distributions we might see, as the earnings do come through.

感謝您的詳細回覆。也許我會很快跟進——您提到了 DGD 的預期分配。也許我們可以檢查一些可以清理的物品來釋放它，對吧？你在 DGD 欠了債。然後我不知道你們是否對此發表了評論，但是對於 DGD 的資本支出預期有什麼看法嗎？它會與 2023 年相提並論嗎？只要嘗試框架我們可能會看到什麼類型的分配，因為收益確實會發生。

Yes. I think you didn't come through totally clear in the room here, but I think you're asking about distributions out of DGD CapEx finish up. We got some debt to pay down that's there related. Do you want to comment...

是的。我認為您在這裡的房間裡沒有完全清楚地表達出來，但我認為您是在詢問 DGD 資本支出完成後的分配。我們有一些債務需要償還，這是相關的。你想評論嗎...

Okay, Tom. This is Brad. Yes. So you see the debt there at $250 million at year-end. So that does have to be repaid. So we had the holidays, we had a turnaround in January. So typically, with the holidays, with the BTC, being at $1 a gallon, those are significant receipts that come in. But with the holidays, there's a little -- a bit of a delay there usually in December on the BTC.

好吧，湯姆。這是布拉德.是的。所以你會看到年底的債務為 2.5 億美元。所以說，這個是必須要還的。所以我們度過了假期，一月我們有了轉機。因此，通常情況下，在假期期間，BTC 的價格為每加侖 1 美元，這些收入都是可觀的。但在假期期間，BTC 的價格通常會在 12 月出現一點延遲。

So it backs up some. So that, along with the Q1 turnaround there in January, kind of pushes that back a little bit. So our outlook, I would say, which is what I think you're getting at, had a difficult time hearing there, is a little bit of a deferred time line on dividends out of DGD, but we're getting closer.

所以它支援一些。因此，加上一月份第一季的好轉，有點推遲了這一點。因此，我想說的是，我們的前景，這就是我認為你們聽到的，很難聽到的，是 DGD 股息的時間線有點推遲，但我們正在接近。

The next question comes from Derrick Whitfield from Stifel.

下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Derrick Whitfield。

With -- my first question, I wanted to focus on the Feed business, where you delivered a remarkable quarter from a margin perspective. First, could you talk to some of the drivers from your prepared comments? And second, maybe speak to your thoughts on the spread between waste fats, oils, and greases and [SBO] and how that will trade throughout 2024 given that we're on the precipice of impactful legislation in 2025?

對於我的第一個問題，我想專注於飼料業務，從利潤角度來看，你們在該業務上取得了出色的季度業績。首先，您能根據您準備好的意見與一些司機談談嗎？其次，也許談談您對廢脂肪、油和油脂與 [SBO] 之間的傳播的看法，以及考慮到我們即將在 2025 年制定有影響力的立法，2024 年這些物質將如何交易？

Yes, good questions. Clearly, the Feed segment, you remember, in the procurement of raw material, when you get into a declining price environment, that's when your margins widen out. You have forward sales on and now you're buying raw material based on the current index markets at a lower price. That widened it out.

是的，好問題。顯然，飼料領域，你記得，在原料採購中，當你進入價格下降的環境時，你的利潤就會擴大。您有遠期銷售，現在您根據當前指數市場以較低的價格購買原材料。這擴大了範圍。

As Brad also commented, we did recover some expenses from the Valley Proteins acquisition that were part of the stock purchase agreement and that's all we can comment there on. And that widened it out. But nonetheless, it was the volumes up, prices were down against the processing formulas and then a little bit of money came in related to Valley. So that's that.

正如布拉德也評論的那樣，我們確實從收購 Valley Proteins 中收回了一些費用，這些費用是股票購買協議的一部分，這就是我們可以對此發表評論的全部內容。這擴大了範圍。但儘管如此，產量增加了，價格相對於加工配方下降了，然後與山谷相關的一點錢進來了。就是這樣。

The waste fat RBD soybean oil comments. I mean the first thing -- and I'm going to split this with Matt and Bob here. The first thing that I think everyone needs to understand was if the industry was truly operating at the rates that everybody anticipates out there and puts in their spreadsheets, fat prices would not be where they're at today, whether it's soybean oil or waste fats.

廢脂肪RBD豆油評論。我的意思是第一件事——我將在這裡與馬特和鮑勃分享這一點。我認為每個人都需要了解的第一件事是，如果該行業真正按照每個人預期並放入電子表格中的速度運行，那麼脂肪價格將不會達到今天的水平，無論是豆油還是廢油脂。

Second, if the pretreatment capacity was as robust and nirvana in the world, waste fats would not be a discount to soybean oil today -- crude soybean oil. So it's really a fascinating environment. All we can tell you is Diamond Green sold 1.25 billion gallons. We have some volatility in margins at an LCM adjustment here in Q4, but the margins are clearly being driven by the spread between soybean oil and waste fats. What do you guys want to add?

其次，如果預處理能力像世界上那樣強大和必殺技，廢油脂將不會比今天的豆油——毛豆油打折。所以這確實是一個令人著迷的環境。我們只能告訴您 Diamond Green 的銷量為 12.5 億加侖。由於第四季度的 LCM 調整，我們的利潤率出現了一些波動，但利潤率顯然是由豆油和廢油脂之間的價差所驅動的。你們想補充什麼？

This is Matt. I would just say if you think back to, let's say, 6 months ago, when we did see -- we had waste fats at a premium to the soybean oil markets and over the last, let's say, three months or so, they've been at a discount. Now that gap is now narrowing, which we believe that it will continue to narrow. But there's been a bit of, let's say, price movement in the waste fat as -- to Randy's point, as I think it's just a reflection of somebody capacity that has not come online.

這是馬特。我只想說，如果你回想一下，比如說，六個月前，當時我們確實看到——我們的廢油脂比豆油市場溢價，而在過去，比如說，三個月左右，他們’已經打折了。現在這種差距正在縮小，我們相信這種差距將繼續縮小。但是，就蘭迪的觀點而言，廢脂肪的價格出現了一些波動，因為我認為這只是某人尚未上線的能力的反映。

Yes. And I would just add. I think this is reflective of the challenge in trying to predict and estimate what's going to happen. I think the thing that I would watch for is what does the biodiesel industry do? We're seeing biodiesel margins now underwater for the first time in quite some time. So if they don't run and operate, we're going to see weakness in soybean oil relative to other waste fats.

是的。我只想補充一下。我認為這反映了試圖預測和估計將要發生的事情所面臨的挑戰。我認為我要關注的是生物柴油產業在做什麼？相當長一段時間以來，我們第一次看到生質柴油的利潤被淹沒。因此，如果他們不運行和運營，我們將看到豆油相對於其他廢油脂的疲軟。

There's a lot to talk about new renewable diesel capacity coming online and operating and its ability to utilize waste fats, UCO and animal fats, how real is that and how able is to use those oils. And so those are the things to watch that are going to ultimately determine what those spreads do.

關於新的可再生柴油產能的上線和運營，以及其利用廢脂肪、UCO 和動物脂肪的能力，其真實性如何以及使用這些油的能力如何，有很多值得討論的內容。因此，這些值得關注的事情將最終決定這些利差的作用。

Great. And for my follow-up, I wanted to ask about the active peptide that you mentioned in your prepared comments that would address glucose moderation. While I'm getting the bit of my skis, is that intended to be an alternative to the impact? And if so, could you give us some perspective of potential market size of this opportunity?

偉大的。對於我的後續行動，我想問您在準備好的評論中提到的可解決血糖調節問題的活性勝肽。當我得到滑雪板的碎片時，這是否是為了替代撞擊？如果是這樣，您能否為我們介紹一下這個機會的潛在市場規模？

Well, we're all smiling around here because we don't want to get sued in the morning by the big pharma so we're going to be careful how we answer this.

好吧，我們都在這裡微笑，因為我們不想早上被大型製藥公司起訴，所以我們要小心地回答這個問題。

So this is Bob. And I'll just say this product will be a nutraceutical, it won't be a pharmaceutical product. So it really -- it does target a slightly different demographic. It is likely to have similar types of benefits for consumers. But again, it's a consumable product that has a whole different profile as far as health and safety goes. That's probably the best way to answer that.

這就是鮑伯。我只想說這個產品將是一種營養保健品，而不是藥品。所以它確實——它的目標人群確實略有不同。它可能會為消費者帶來類似的好處。但同樣，它是一種消費品，在健康和安全方面具有完全不同的特徵。這可能是回答這個問題的最佳方式。

Yes, I think that's about all we can say at this time. I will tell you that we will be launching the product, I believe, in Geneva here in May. So we've got a lot of interest in this product worldwide. You think of the applications that it can go into. Remember, a peptides and gelatin is water soluble, so it can go in solution. It can go into health bars, whatever you want to think. So there's lots of neat applications here that just once again diversify our product mix and ultimately is the underlying rationale for the Gelnex acquisition that we were working on or did.

是的，我想這就是我們目前能說的全部。我會告訴您，我相信我們將於五月在日內瓦推出該產品。因此，我們在全球範圍內對該產品產生了很大的興趣。您會想到它可以進入的應用程式。請記住，勝肽和明膠是水溶性的，因此可以溶解在溶液中。無論你想怎麼想，它都可以進入健康欄。因此，這裡有很多巧妙的應用程序，它們再次使我們的產品組合多樣化，最終是我們正在研究或已經完成的 Gelnex 收購的根本原因。

Next question comes from Andrew Strelzik from BMO.

下一個問題來自 BMO 的 Andrew Strelzik。

So my first question is on some of the kind of internal profit drivers that you guys have that are not related to market dynamics. Is there any way to quantify what that might look like, the efficiencies, obviously Miropasz which you closed on and then Ward coming back up in 2Q, how much could that contribute incrementally in 2024? And then does that also build into '25?

所以我的第一個問題是關於你們擁有的一些與市場動態無關的內部利潤驅動因素。有沒有什麼方法可以量化效率，顯然是您關閉的 Miropasz，然後 Ward 在第二季度恢復，這在 2024 年可以增量貢獻多少？那麼這也會融入'25 嗎？

This is Matt. I'll take a stab at that. I would say that let's see for an example of a Ward to your question, and that plant is -- will be coming up next month. And we're expecting a full run rate from Q2 on. And that will put us exactly where we need to be in terms of position in the Eastern region as we call it now.

這是馬特。我會嘗試一下。我想說，讓我們看一個針對你的問題的病房的例子，該工廠將在下個月建成。我們預計從第二季開始將全面運作。這將使我們在我們現在所說的東部地區處於我們需要的位置。

And we've talked about it in previous calls. I mean, Darling has made a real effort and commitment into investing in the -- call it, the reliability and the performance of the operating plants. And that's something that we believe separates us from many of our, let's say, competitors out there.

我們在之前的電話會議中已經討論過這一點。我的意思是，達林在投資營運工廠的可靠性和性能方面做出了真正的努力和承諾。我們相信，這就是我們與許多競爭對手的區別。

And one of the things that -- for example, that we benefit from, to your point, is that we call it breakdown tonnage. And so the rendering market, generally speaking, is pretty well, let's say, balanced between capacity and volume availability, but the minute that someone breaks down in the space, the whole system can get out of kilter pretty quickly. And so we've made a real effort into investing on the performance and reliability of our plants.

例如，就您的觀點而言，我們從中受益的一件事是我們稱之為故障噸位。因此，一般來說，渲染市場在容量和體積可用性之間取得了很好的平衡，但是一旦有人在空間中發生故障，整個系統就會很快失去平衡。因此，我們真正努力投資工廠的性能和可靠性。

So when that happens, and it does that we actually benefit from that because we actually receive the -- this extra volume that comes to us that, let's say, not in the plan and is -- it comes, let's say, favorably priced, and we are there to receive it. And so that, for us, is a real competitive advantage. And that's because we take the effort and we have the balance sheet to invest the capital required to keep these plants and tiptop shape in order to not break down.

因此，當這種情況發生時，我們實際上會從中受益，因為我們實際上收到了——比方說，我們收到的額外數量，比方說，不在計劃中，而且是——比方說，它的價格優惠，我們隨時準備好接收它。因此，對我們來說，這是一個真正的競爭優勢。這是因為我們付出了努力，我們有資產負債表來投資維持這些工廠和最佳狀態所需的資本，以免發生故障。

So we actually are on the receiving end of the benefit of situations like that. And that's just an example. And so we've got that all the way through our organization. And so to quantify that, that's a bit of a challenge, but -- for today's call. But I would say it's -- we view that as a competitive advantage.

所以我們實際上是這種情況的受益者。這只是一個例子。所以我們在整個組織中都做到了這一點。因此，要量化這一點，這有點挑戰，但是——對於今天的電話會議來說。但我想說的是──我們認為這是一種競爭優勢。

Yes. I mean, Andrew, we look at it -- as Matt said it very, very well there -- I mean, in the month of January, we landfilled 32 million pounds out of the Ward, South Carolina region. That's we're not proud of. At the end of the day, that's huge lost opportunity. So we're excited about getting Ward on the MCC shipped at the end of January. We're expecting, hopefully, end of March, 1st of April, start up there. And then that puts a lot of ability to move tonnage to the right locations that we've been unable to do now for over a year. So that's exciting.

是的。我的意思是，安德魯，我們正在研究這個問題——正如馬特在那裡說得非常非常好——我的意思是，在一月份，我們從南卡羅來納州沃德地區填埋了3200 萬磅垃圾。這是我們並不引以為傲的。歸根結底，這是失去的巨大機會。因此，我們很高興能在一月底將 Ward 納入 MCC 中。我們希望在 3 月底、4 月 1 日開始。這樣一來，我們就有能力將噸位轉移到正確的位置，而我們一年多來一直無法做到這一點。所以這很令人興奮。

Miropasz closed here on the 1st of February. That's three poultry plants. Investment case was exceeded at closed here, meaning it's doing better than we thought when we did the original deal, we kind of redid the diligence on that.

Miropasz 於 2 月 1 日在此關閉。那是三個家禽加工廠。投資案例在此處結束時已超出，這意味著它的表現比我們進行最初交易時想像的要好，我們對此重新進行了盡職調查。

Gelnex, we have for a full year. We got Peabody down, the old bone gelatin plant. That's out of the system, the noise of that. So there's a lot of good things that we see happen for the year out there. We're carrying large inventories. And if you can read the balance sheet, you can see the working capital out there, you could see that the consumer demand slowed down around the world, and that's built inventories in several of our businesses.

Gelnex，我們有一整年的時間。我們把皮博迪那家古老的骨明膠廠搞下來了。那是系統之外的噪音。因此，我們看到今年會發生很多好事。我們有大量庫存。如果你可以閱讀資產負債表，你可以看到那裡的營運資金，你可以看到世界各地的消費者需求放緩，這導致我們的一些業務建立了庫存。

And so that's where we come back to -- it's maybe the operational efficiency, is a very important piece. And as Matt says, focused on it. But at the end of the day, the big cash driver for us next year is really getting the inventories down and managing working capital. And that's why we're so confident in the debt repayment side here.

這就是我們回到的地方——這可能是營運效率，是一個非常重要的部分。正如馬特所說，專注於它。但歸根結底，我們明年的主要現金驅動因素實際上是降低庫存和管理營運資金。這就是為什麼我們對這裡的債務償還方面如此有信心。

Okay. Got it. That's helpful. And I appreciate those comments. And then just my follow-up is on DGD profitability kind of at a high level. And I know I've asked this before, but I just want to revisit it. Historically, you've talked about kind of a dollar baseline margin over time. And I'm just curious with everything that's going on in those markets, do you still feel like -- and I know next year as we transition to SAF, that's going to evolve.

好的。知道了。這很有幫助。我很欣賞這些評論。然後我的後續行動是 DGD 獲利能力處於較高水準。我知道我以前問過這個問題，但我只是想重新討論一下。從歷史上看，您曾討論過隨著時間的推移美元基準保證金。我只是對這些市場中正在發生的一切感到好奇，您是否仍然有這樣的感覺——我知道明年當我們過渡到 SAF 時，這種情況將會改變。

But I guess from a baseline perspective, do you still feel like that's the appropriate way to think about the business? I don't know if that's feasible for '24 or not in your view, but just any comments around how you think about the underlying margin structure for DGD pre-SAF?

但我想從基準的角度來看，您仍然認為這是考慮業務的適當方式嗎？我不知道您認為這對 24 世紀是否可行，但您對 SAF 之前 DGD 的基本保證金結構有何看法？

Yes, this is Bob. I think because of some of the things I mentioned earlier, what's going to happen with biodiesel capacity, what's going to happen with nameplate renewable diesel, new capacity as that comes online, it makes it difficult to answer that question.

是的，這是鮑伯。我認為，由於我之前提到的一些事情，生質柴油產能將會發生什麼，銘牌再生柴油將會發生什麼，新產能上線，所以很難回答這個問題。

I think what we can say is that Diamond Green has a sustainable advantage over its competitors in the market. And we could talk about what that looks like relative to renewable diesel, relative to biodiesel. It's significant. And so it's going to maintain that advantage, as we cycle through this margin environment.

我認為我們可以說的是，Diamond Green 相對於市場上的競爭對手具有可持續的優勢。我們可以討論相對於再生柴油、相對於生質柴油的情況。這很重要。因此，當我們在這種利潤環境中循環時，它將保持這種優勢。

I think what's a little bit different about the renewable diesel environment than what we might see in a more mature commodity environment is that there's still -- it's still an evolving industry. There's still new demand coming on and new opportunities. So SAF demand comes on, that will cannibalize renewable diesel capacity in production and provide more support.

我認為再生柴油環境與我們在更成熟的商品環境中可能看到的有點不同，它仍然是一個不斷發展的行業。仍然有新的需求和新的機會出現。因此，SAF 需求出現，這將蠶食再生柴油的生產能力並提供更多支援。

We're also seeing more evolution in the government programs, whether it's, call it, LCFS programs or just the general impact on that exports and RIN cancellations will have on RIN SNDs.

我們也看到政府計劃的更多演變，無論是 LCFS 計劃，還是只是對出口和 RIN 取消對 RIN SND 的整體影響。

So I think there's a lot of things that would allow this to reverse course faster than what you normally see in a mature commodity market, but really difficult to predict exactly what that margin per gallon is going to look like over the course of the entire year.

因此，我認為有很多因素可以讓這種情況比成熟商品市場通常看到的情況更快地逆轉，但很難準確預測全年每加侖的利潤會是什麼樣子。

And that question comes from Adam Samuelson from Goldman Sachs.

這個問題來自高盛的亞當·薩繆爾森。

So I guess my first question, Randy, and I appreciate the comments around there's a lot of volatility and the hesitancy on providing an outlook. I'm just trying to make sure we think about that in the context of you did provide some outlook framing 3 months ago -- or 3.5 months ago in earnings in November. And so is it just the caution comes from the decline in fat prices that you've seen over the last several months that gives you pause or the lack of response -- full response to RD margins. Just you did provide some other commentary with the third quarter earnings and you're refraining to do that today. And I'm just trying to make sure we understand kind of actually what's changed.

所以我想我的第一個問題是，蘭迪，我很欣賞大家的評論，這些評論存在很大的波動性，並且在提供前景方面猶豫不決。我只是想確保我們在您確實提供了 3 個月前（或 3.5 個月前）11 月份收益的一些前景框架的背景下考慮這一點。那麼，過去幾個月你所看到的脂肪價格下跌帶來的謹慎是否讓你猶豫不決，或者缺乏反應——對研發利潤的全面反應。只是您確實對第三季度收益提供了一些其他評論，但今天您沒有這樣做。我只是想確保我們了解實際發生了什麼變化。

Yes. No, it's a very, very fair question, Adam. I mean if I look back at the November call, we had incredible momentum with fat prices still in the $0.55, $0.60 a pound range and when you do guidance in this business, you really -- you just stopped the world and say, if that price holds and the tonnage holds and DGD margins are X, this is what it's going to generate. It's really that simple. It's a 5-minute exercise.

是的。不，這是一個非常非常公平的問題，亞當。我的意思是，如果我回顧11 月份的電話會議，我們擁有令人難以置信的勢頭，脂肪價格仍處於每磅0.55 美元至0.60 美元的範圍內，當您對這項業務進行指導時，您真的- 您只是停止了世界並說，如果那樣的話價格保持不變，噸位保持不變，DGD 利潤為 X，這就是它將產生的結果。真的就是這麼簡單。這是一個5分鐘的練習。

What's changed now is if we had (inaudible) out there before, fat prices are down $0.20 a pound. I said earlier, each 20's 12 million. So you could say fat price potentially 250 below that. So that was -- you can do the math (inaudible) is the run rate to date.

現在發生的變化是，如果我們以前有（聽不清楚）的話，脂肪價格會下降 0.20 美元每磅。我剛才說了，每個20歲有1200萬。所以你可以說脂肪價格可能比這個低 250。所以，你可以計算一下（聽不清楚）迄今為止的運行率。

Now the hesitancy to go out there and crystallize that for is I don't believe fat prices are going to stay there, but I don't know when they're going to react right now. And that's where my comments were geared around the demand for fats, whether it's soybean oil.

現在猶豫是否要出去並具體化這一點，因為我不相信高價會保持在那裡，但我不知道他們現在什麼時候會做出反應。這就是我的評論針對脂肪需求的地方，無論是豆油。

If you start to think of it, okay, a year ago -- or we were supposed to have DGD -- or not DGD or REG or Chevron, whatever the (expletive) you want to call them, Geismar online. That's 250 million or 75 million gallons. That's 2.5 billion pounds, [P66] the phantom plant of the future. I mean, what is that thing? Is it 4 billion? Is it 5 billion? Is it 6 billion pounds of fat?

如果你開始想起來，好吧，一年前——或者我們應該有 DGD——或者沒有 DGD、REG 或雪佛龍，無論你想用什麼（髒話）稱呼它們，Geismar 在線。那是 2.5 億或 7500 萬加侖。那是 25 億英鎊，[P66] 未來的幻影工廠。我的意思是，那是什麼東西？是40億嗎？是50億嗎？是60億磅的脂肪嗎？

You still got two lines down at Martinez. When are those coming back online? Vertex can't seem to run consistently. Not sure what's going on with the restatement up in Montana right now, but they don't seem to be running very consistent. You're buying refined soybean oil.

馬丁內斯隊還落後兩隊。這些人甚麼時候恢復在線？ Vertex 似乎無法持續運作。不確定蒙大拿州現在的重述情況如何，但他們的運行似乎不太一致。你買的是精煉大豆油。

So there's just a lot of moving parts out here that are really hard to put your finger on right now. I mean that -- as I've learned in this business, we've always said, you've been around me long enough. The only thing you can control in this business is the balance sheet. And so that's where my comments was, Brad and I are convinced we can pay down $400 million of debt this year, be investment grade and be ready to rock and roll as this thing goes again.

因此，這裡有很多移動部件，現在很難具體說明。我的意思是——正如我在這個行業學到的那樣，我們總是說，你在我身邊已經足夠長的時間了。在這個行業中你唯一可以控制的是資產負債表。這就是我的評論，布拉德和我相信我們今年可以償還 4 億美元的債務，達到投資級別，並準備好在這件事再次發生時搖滾起來。

And then the SAF margins. As Bob commented, we have a lot of interested parties. We are in the margin discussions. They're complicated. It's a very different business, selling SPK, blending it with Jet A and so those things are happening. I'm confident here by the end of first quarter, I suspect we'll have some deals done.

然後是 SAF 利潤。正如鮑勃評論的那樣，我們有很多感興趣的團體。我們正在進行邊際討論。它們很複雜。這是一項非常不同的業務，銷售 SPK，將其與 Jet A 混合，所以這些事情正在發生。我對第一季末充滿信心，我懷疑我們會完成一些交易。

Don't know how much transparency we can provide at that time. But as we've said, the margins are $1 to $2 above renewable diesel. That's 250 million gallons. That's another $250 million to $500 million of additional cash being generated.

不知道到時候我們能提供多少透明度。但正如我們所說，利潤比再生柴油高出 1 至 2 美元。那是 2.5 億加侖。這還將產生 2.5 億至 5 億美元的額外現金。

Brad said -- as he said, Adam, we're going to be delevered there to 0 shortly. Lots of moving parts there. The BTC, the government didn't pay the BTC for a month here as they went on holiday. We've got a huge receivable out there from that. And so at the end of the day, I think we're set up very nicely.

布拉德說——正如他所說，亞當，我們很快就會去槓桿化到 0。那裡有很多活動部件。 BTC，因為他們去度假，政府一個月沒有支付BTC。我們從中得到了巨額應收帳款。所以歸根結底，我認為我們的設置非常好。

I think it's going to be a year of growing earnings from Q1 forward here. As everybody -- as we remind people in January -- we had pretty good January, but end of the day, we lost, I think, 4 or 5 snow days in North America where the plants couldn't even operate. We got curtailed on gas. So there's a lot of noise there that hopefully, as we get towards what I was calling the baseball parts open this business really starts to hum again.

我認為從第一季開始，這將是獲利成長的一年。正如我們在 1 月份提醒人們的那樣，我們度過了相當不錯的 1 月份，但最終，我認為我們在北美損失了 4 到 5 個雪天，工廠甚至無法運作。我們的天然氣供應受到限制。因此，那裡有很多噪音，希望當我們達到我所說的棒球部分開放時，這項業務真的會再次開始嗡嗡作響。

Bob, anything you want to add?

鮑勃，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes. I just -- I think you really hit on it, Randy. When you go back to November of last year, and you looked at the market factors, a lot of what we saw was within our control. And when we -- as we sit here today, we can't control what the biodiesel industry, is going to do with its capacity. We can't control the renewable diesels ability -- industry's ability to run and operate in. So it just makes it a lot more difficult to predict right now what's going to happen.

是的。我只是——我認為你真的很感興趣，蘭迪。當你回顧去年 11 月時，你會發現市場因素很多都在我們的控制範圍內。當我們今天坐在這裡時，我們無法控制生物柴油產業將如何利用其產能。我們無法控制再生柴油的能力——工業運作和運作的能力。因此，這使得現在預測將要發生的事情變得更加困難。

But what I would add is that Diamond Green Diesel produced over 1.2 billion gallons last year, that was more than anyone did anywhere in the world and with the capacity utilization rate that is second to none anywhere. And so as this cycle changes, they've proven they have the operational capacity to capitalize on margin improvement in the industry. So I think we're optimistic. It's just very difficult to predict exactly what margins are going to look like given all these variables that are out of our control.

但我要補充的是，去年鑽石綠柴油的產量超過 12 億加侖，比世界上任何地方的產量都多，而且產能利用率在任何地方都是首屈一指的。因此，隨著這個週期的變化，他們已經證明自己有能力利用產業利潤率的提高。所以我認為我們很樂觀。考慮到所有這些我們無法控制的變量，很難準確預測利潤率會是什麼樣子。

One of the things what Randy mentioned with DGD and the dividends, as we think about the people on the call here. And I know you know this, Adam, and most of the sell-side analysts, if not all, know this, we have a formal policy there for distributions, and that is measured monthly. It is not subjective, so that makes it like clockwork as we look at that and there's -- it's obviously a large receivable there from the BTC, not large CapEx to speak of. We're through that one turnaround SAF being paid for.

蘭迪在 DGD 和股息中提到的一件事，正如我們想到這裡參加電話會議的人一樣。我知道你知道這一點，亞當，大多數賣方分析師（如果不是全部）都知道這一點，我們有正式的分配政策，並且每月進行衡量。它不是主觀的，因此，當我們看到這一點時，它就像發條一樣精確，並且顯然是來自 BTC 的大量應收帳款，而不是大量的資本支出。我們已經完成了 SAF 支付費用的一次週轉。

So that's why my comment earlier is we are getting much closer to starting that dividend train, if you will. But I just kind of want to make the point that it is not a subjective calculation, and there's potential there each month as we look at that at the end of each month.

因此，這就是為什麼我之前的評論是，如果你願意的話，我們離啟動股息列車越來越近了。但我只是想指出，這不是一個主觀計算，當我們在每個月末查看時，每個月都有潛力。

The next question comes from Ben Kallo from Baird.

下一個問題來自貝爾德 (Baird) 的本卡洛 (Ben Kallo)。

I hate to do this again. But Randy, if I just do Q4 and I just run rate it just farmer's math, and I say I think $100 million from things that -- from acquisitions that you did go full year plus the -- on the new plants, I get to $1.5 billion. Is that a baseline? .

我討厭再做一次。但蘭迪，如果我只做第四季度，我只是計算它只是農民的數學，我說我認為 1 億美元來自於你全年的收購加上新工廠的收購，我可以得到15 億美元。這是一個基線嗎？ 。

I'm going to answer that. Yes, if the things go right that we see out here. I mean our goal is to exceed our performance in '23 and that we'll do a whole bunch of things out there to get there. And I mean, at the end of the day, I saw fat price trades last night that were up already $0.04 a pound over January. So yes, I mean, at the end of the day, we should pick up momentum there.

我來回答這個問題。是的，如果我們在這裡看到的事情進展順利的話。我的意思是，我們的目標是超越 23 年的表現，我們將做很多事情來實現這一目標。我的意思是，到最後，我昨晚看到價格交易比 1 月份每磅上漲了 0.04 美元。所以，是的，我的意思是，歸根結底，我們應該在那裡獲得動力。

The volatility -- remember, the model is built around Feed segment reductions and volatility are offset by the super machine down in the Gulf Coast that buys 3x more fat than we make. So as the price goes down, they have to work through their pipeline. They had not worked through their higher priced fat, which was reflected in our Q4 earnings in January. It looks like they'll be improved in February here. And so those margins widen back out, then it offsets any softness that the Feed segment may deliver here.

波動性 - 請記住，該模型是圍繞飼料部門的減少而建立的，波動性被墨西哥灣沿岸的超級機器所抵消，該機器購買的脂肪比我們生產的多 3 倍。因此，隨著價格下降，他們必須透過管道進行工作。他們還沒有消化掉價格較高的脂肪，這反映在我們一月份第四季的收益中。看來二月份這裡會有所改善。因此，這些利潤率會擴大，然後抵消飼料部門可能帶來的任何疲軟。

Bob, anything else?

鮑勃，還有什麼嗎？

I guess the one thing I would just add, when we think about the Feed segment, in particular, Matt alluded to this earlier with the breakdown comments that he made. We have a competitive advantage -- we believe we have a competitive advantage because we keep our plants well maintained, and we're benefiting from that today because we've just gone through a high inflation cycle.

我想我要補充的一件事是，特別是當我們考慮 Feed 部分時，Matt 早些時候在他所做的細分評論中提到了這一點。我們擁有競爭優勢——我們相信我們擁有競爭優勢，因為我們對工廠進行了良好的維護，而我們今天正從中受益，因為我們剛剛經歷了高通膨週期。

And so the book value of our assets and the fixed cost that we operate with are lower than new replacement. And so as we reprice contracts over time, we're seeing wider margins on the assets that we've had in our books and our network. So I think that's something that -- as we look out to the 2024 and 2025 will benefit us.

因此，我們資產的帳面價值和我們營運的固定成本低於新的替代資產。因此，當我們隨著時間的推移重新定價合約時，我們看到我們帳簿和網路中的資產的利潤率更大。所以我認為，展望 2024 年和 2025 年，這將使我們受益。

Follow-up, just new crush capacity coming on, there -- is that going to weigh on fat prices? And then I know it's very complicated as we switch over to the producer tax credit. But can you just maybe remind us if you can quickly just how you're advantaged and how you think that impacts overall supply in the marketplace? Does that curtail some supply or what happens as we switch to next year?

後續，新的壓榨產能即將投入使用，這會對脂肪價格造成壓力嗎？然後我知道當我們轉向生產者稅收抵免時，情況非常複雜。但您能否提醒我們，您是否可以快速了解您的優勢以及您認為這如何影響市場的整體供應？這是否會減少一些供應，或者當我們轉向明年時會發生什麼？

Matt, you want to take crush? And Bob, do you want to take...

馬特，你想暗戀嗎？鮑勃，你想帶...

Yes. So I would say from a crush capacity increase, a lot of that is, I would say, price and known and is not going to have a significant weight on current market prices. So as we think -- I look at it a little bit more from the other side and what's still to come is the demand side as some of these RD plants that have not been able to run.

是的。因此，我想說，從壓榨能力的增加來看，其中很大一部分是價格和已知的，不會對當前的市場價格產生重大影響。因此，正如我們所想的那樣，我從另一方面來看，仍然是需求方面，因為其中一些研發工廠還無法運作。

Now basically, many of these will get things figured out, and we'll improve their run rates, and that will increase on the demand side. So in terms of looking for a heavy downshift in the -- in soybean oil prices, I think most of that is already priced.

現在基本上，其中許多事情都會得到解決，我們將提高他們的運行率，這將在需求方面增加。因此，就尋求大豆油價格大幅下跌而言，我認為其中大部分已經定價。

Yes. This is Bob. Specific to the producer tax credit, so that's due to take effect in 2025. The benefit that Diamond Green Diesel has is that unlike the blenders tax credit, imports of biofuels won't have access to that. And the producers tax credit will be a CI adjusted support, whereas the blenders tax credit is the same per gallon irrespective of what the feedstock is.

是的。這是鮑伯。具體針對生產商稅收抵免，該政策將於 2025 年生效。鑽石綠柴油的好處是，與攪拌機稅收抵免不同，進口生物燃料無法享受此優惠。生產商的稅收抵免將是 CI 調整後的支持，而攪拌機的稅收抵免是每加侖相同的，無論原料是什麼。

Our calculations show that if you're using a canola oil or soybean oil to make your renewable fuel, then you'll essentially get 0 from a producer's tax credit. So that's Diamond Green's advantage. It can utilize lower CI store feedstocks that will get that producer tax credit and it has an advantage over the imported biofuels.

我們的計算表明，如果您使用菜籽油或大豆油來製造可再生燃料，那麼您從生產商的稅收抵免中獲得的稅收抵免基本上為 0。這就是鑽石綠的優勢。它可以利用較低 CI 儲存的原料，從而獲得生產商稅收抵免，並且比進口生物燃料具有優勢。

The next question comes from Ben Bienvenu from Stephens.

下一個問題來自 Stephens 的 Ben Bienvenu。

So I want to ask about some comments that you all made late last year as it relates to -- excuse me, earlier this year as it relates to changes that you can make in the Feed segment to provide some insulation from commodity volatility. Can you help us think through what some of those adjustments might be and the time line that might take to put those changes in place?

因此，我想問一下你們去年年底發表的一些評論，因為它與——對不起，今年早些時候，因為它與你們可以在飼料領域做出的改變有關，以提供一定程度的商品波動性隔離。您能否幫助我們思考其中可能的一些調整以及實施這些變更可能需要的時間安排？

Yes, I'll take a little bit of this. I mean, essentially, you've got U.S., Canada, Europe, and Brazil in the Feed segment there. Each one has a different process of margin management. In North America or in the U.S., specifically, it's clearly -- about 70% of our raw material in the U.S. is procured under a fixed margin with a sharing of upside. And so when the prices come down, there's us to share, but there's a fixed margin that ensures cash flow and profitability.

是的，我會拿一點這個。我的意思是，基本上，美國、加拿大、歐洲和巴西都在飼料領域。每一種都有不同的保證金管理流程。具體來說，在北美或美國，很明顯，我們在美國約 70% 的原材料是以固定利潤採購的，並分享了上漲空間。因此，當價格下降時，我們可以分享，但有固定的利潤來確保現金流和獲利能力。

Similar in Canada, but more exposure to commodity up there, Europe probably weigh less in the sense of commodity exposure, as they are able to move their raw material procurement values or prices down, as they need to here to keep their margins. Still not -- they'd rather have $1,000 or $1,200 a ton fat than an $800 a ton fat, but we've seen fat there recently traded in the $900s again. And you kind of got to do the math, that's in the mid-40s. That's where the U.S. has now moved back to.

加拿大與加拿大類似，但在那裡對大宗商品的敞口更大，歐洲在大宗商品敞口方面的權重可能較小，因為他們能夠降低原材料採購價值或價格，因為他們需要在這裡保持利潤。但仍然不是——他們寧願每噸 1,000 美元或 1,200 美元的脂肪，而不是每噸 800 美元的脂肪，但我們最近看到那裡的脂肪交易價格再次達到 900 美元。你得算一下，那是在 40 多歲。這就是美國現在搬回的地方。

In Brazil, we've got our challenges there in the sense that we bought a private company that didn't have the same ambition that Darling has towards margin management, and so culturally teaching the procurement team down there to go back to the slaughterhouses. We're in process there. That will add value over the year. As we look back at 2023, we had a great first half of the year in Brazil, and then we had challenge, as prices came down around the globe to get the procurement team to react and realize that it's okay to do that.

在巴西，我們面臨挑戰，因為我們收購了一家私人公司，該公司在利潤管理方面沒有像達林那樣的雄心，因此在文化上教導那裡的採購團隊回到屠宰場。我們正在那裡進行。這將在一年內增加價值。回顧 2023 年，我們在巴西度過了美好的上半年，但隨後我們遇到了挑戰，因為全球範圍內的價格下降，需要採購團隊做出反應並意識到這樣做是可以的。

So lots of -- I know that's a long-winded answer, Ben. At the end of the day, it really comes down to reaction time and then the lag that it flows through. So fourth quarter, higher price sales, lower procurement costs. Now we've got lower sales in Q1 and lower procurement cost.

這麼多——我知道這是一個冗長的答案，本。歸根結底，這實際上取決於反應時間以及它所經歷的延遲。所以第四季銷售價格較高，採購成本較低。現在我們第一季的銷售額較低，採購成本也較低。

Anything else you guys want to add? Okay. We'll stick with that...

大家還有什麼要補充的嗎？好的。我們會堅持下去...

That's great. Very helpful. Maybe shifting gears a little bit and thinking about the Food Ingredients business, a really strong year. Really, it's been as strong -- as far back as you can look, it's an exceptionally strong. As we look forward, can you help us think about the growth runway ahead. What kind of growth CAGR in terms of dollar sales that you expect to deliver in that business and CapEx projects ahead?

那太棒了。很有幫助。也許稍微改變一下態度，想想食品配料業務，這是一個非常強勁的一年。真的，它一直很強大——就你所能看到的來看，它是異常強大的。當我們展望未來時，您能幫助我們思考未來的成長軌跡嗎？您預期該業務和未來資本支出項目的銷售額複合年增長率是多少？

Yes. So really, at the end of the day there -- in Suann's slide deck, I still think one of the greatest stories is that quarterly run rate of the Food segment. And of course, then obviously, you get to see the split of 85%, basically being the collagen and gelatin business and a little bit of it being CTH and the edible fats business that we have in Europe there.

是的。所以說實話，在 Suann 的幻燈片中，我仍然認為最偉大的故事之一是食品部門的季度運行率。當然，很明顯，你會看到 85% 的分配，基本上是膠原蛋白和明膠業務，還有一點是我們在歐洲的 CTH 和食用脂肪業務。

As we look at that business going forward, clearly, we get a full year of Gelnex. Clearly, I made comments that we -- the consumer demand in the world is lighter at this moment, maybe a little delayed recessionary, but it's improving. January was a good January, really at the run rate. So long term, as Brad and I have always said, we thought we'd hit around 3.25 this year. I think what we were last year -- 3.21 all right. So we're pretty darn close, calling that one within 1% as we did.

當我們展望該業務的未來發展時，很明顯，我們得到了整整一年的 Gelnex。顯然，我評論說，目前世界上的消費者需求較輕，也許衰退有點延遲，但正在改善。一月是一個很好的一月，確實按照運行速度。從長遠來看，正如 Brad 和我一直說的那樣，我們認為今年會達到 3.25 左右。我認為我們去年的情況——3.21 還不錯。所以我們已經非常接近了，我們稱這個誤差在 1% 之內。

We still believe that business over -- the trajectory over the next three years will break 400 million. That's the launch of additional of the new peptides and growth of hydrolyzed collagen, shutdown of a tired asset in Massachusetts, finishing up some CapEx. We've got our fifth spray dryer online in Epitacio, Brazil now.

我們仍然相信，未來三年的業務軌跡將突破 4 億。這是更多新勝肽的推出和水解膠原蛋白的成長，關閉馬薩諸塞州的一項疲憊資產，完成一些資本支出。我們現在在巴西埃皮塔西奧上線了第五台噴霧乾燥機。

So lots of good things happening there. I know when the guys presented the peptide plan for just the glucose moderation peptide, they have a 5-year plan there of getting that to be over a $100 million brand. And that's just one of what I would say probably 6 to 10 peptides that can be launched out there with very limited capital to convert the factories that we've already spent the money on.

那裡發生了很多好事。我知道，當他們提出葡萄糖調節勝肽的勝肽計劃時，他們有一個五年計劃，目標是使其成為一個價值超過 1 億美元的品牌。這只是我想說的可能有 6 到 10 種勝肽之一，這些勝肽可以用非常有限的資金推出，以改造我們已經花錢的工廠。

The next question comes from Jason Gabelman from Cowen.

下一個問題來自 Cowen 的 Jason Gabelman。

I wanted to ask first on the Feed segment. It looks like gross margin was 24% of sales for the full year, but there was obviously some noise in there with the South Carolina plant down and then with the Valley Proteins reimbursement. I was wondering if you could either give some sort of where gross margin percentage would have been in 2023, excluding that noise? Or where you expect it to go in 2024?

我想先問一下 Feed 部分。看起來毛利率佔全年銷售額的 24%，但隨著南卡羅來納州工廠的關閉以及 Valley Proteins 的報銷，其中顯然存在一些噪音。我想知道您是否可以給出 2023 年毛利率百分比（排除噪音）？或者您預計 2024 年它會走向何方？

This is Randy and Brad can help me here. Clearly, we took a reimbursement of some expenses that were incurred during the whole year, right? But 24%, we've always said somewhere between 23% and 25% is where that segment should operate given really any type of pricing environment just being driven by the lag of when the procurement formula has changed. Brad?

我是蘭迪，布萊德可以在這裡幫助我。顯然，我們報銷了全年發生的一些費用，對嗎？但 24%，我們總是說 23% 到 25% 之間的某個位置是該細分市場應該運作的地方，因為實際上任何類型的定價環境都是由採購公式改變時的滯後所驅動的。布拉德？

Yes. The other thing there, Jason. So yes, you had -- we can't get into that number, but a little bit of lift there in Q4, but a little bit back to Randy and Matt's comment earlier in that segment, we still have Ward that's going to come along. We had the margin management improvement that's definitely going on at FASA, at Valley Proteins has been and is continuing. So that's where we feel extreme confidence to be in that mid-20s range at least kind of right there as move forward...

是的。還有另一件事，傑森。所以，是的，我們無法透露這個數字，但第四季度有一點提升，但回到蘭迪和馬特在該部分早些時候的評論，我們仍然有沃德會出現。我們的利潤管理得到了改善，FASA 和 Valley Proteins 都在進行這種改進，並且仍在繼續。因此，這就是我們對在 20 多歲左右的範圍內感到非常有信心的地方，至少在某種程度上就在那裡前進...

Got it. Great. And then on the DGD business, you mentioned that it looks like biodiesel economics are now potentially underwater. Have you seen any capacity reductions from biodiesel plants based on whatever real-time data you have? That's -- it's a bit harder for us to see from the outside and would be a good indication that maybe margins are bottoming if you start to see some rationalization in biodiesel production?

知道了。偉大的。關於 DGD 業務，您提到生物柴油經濟現在可能陷入水下。根據您所掌握的即時數據，您是否發現生質柴油廠的產能有所下降？這對我們來說從外部來看有點困難，如果你開始看到生物柴油生產的一些合理化，這將是一個很好的跡象，表明利潤率可能正在觸底？

Yes. I think I'll tag this with Bob. I mean clearly, what we do as a team every day is as we run an analysis industry-wide or whether it's waste fats, whether it's renewable diesel, whether it's biodiesel, it's refined soybean oil, crude soybean oil and we're on the fats and look at them. And clearly, what we've seen is if you're in the biodiesel business and you're running soybean oil today, you're negative.

是的。我想我會用鮑勃來標記這個。我的意思很明確，我們作為一個團隊每天所做的就是在整個行業範圍內進行分析，或者是否是廢脂肪、是否是可再生柴油、是否是生物柴油、是否是精煉大豆油、粗大豆油，我們正在研究脂肪並看看它們。顯然，我們所看到的是，如果您從事生物柴油業務並且今天經營大豆油，那麼您的看法是負面的。

Now if you remember, a lot of the biodiesel capacity is still with the integrated crusher that's out there. And they have three choices. They can put it in the (inaudible) to be exported. They can run it through their biodiesel plant. They can run it through their vegetable oil refinery. And at the end of the day, all they care about is what's the sense for bushel -- or dollars per bushel that they make in a crush margin and they don't care which asset it runs through.

現在，如果您還記得的話，許多生物柴油產能仍然來自現有的整合式破碎機。他們有三個選擇。他們可以將其放入（聽不清楚）中以供導出。他們可以透過他們的生物柴油工廠來運行它。他們可以透過植物油精煉廠來運作它。歸根結底，他們所關心的只是蒲式耳的意義是什麼，或者說他們以壓榨利潤賺取每蒲式耳的美元，而他們並不關心它通過的是哪種資產。

The freestanding guys are clearly the ones that are vulnerable right now. And I'll let Bob comment about that.

獨立的人顯然是現在最脆弱的人。我會讓鮑伯對此發表評論。

Yes. So I think first, I'd say we haven't seen a significant reduction yet. I think this industry, as Randy alluded to, it's largely egg-based and they do a very effective job at hedging and protecting margins for a certain period into the future. So when margins go negative, they don't necessarily turn it off right away, but it's something that you expect to see down the road.

是的。所以我認為首先，我們還沒有看到顯著的減少。我認為，正如蘭迪所提到的那樣，這個行業主要以雞蛋為基礎，他們在未來一段時間內的對沖和保護利潤方面做得非常有效。因此，當利潤率變為負數時，他們不一定會立即將其關閉，但這是您期望在未來看到的情況。

As Randy said, also the crushers are going to look -- the integrated companies, they're going to look at it a little differently. They're going to look at a fully integrated margin and make decisions. We see about 60% of the industry, though, is stand-alone, and they're more vulnerable to just an absolute biodiesel margin.

正如蘭迪所說，破碎商也會以不同的方式看待它——綜合公司。他們將考慮完全整合的利潤並做出決定。不過，我們看到該行業約 60% 是獨立的，而且它們更容易受到絕對生物柴油利潤的影響。

The other thing I would say is crusher margins have come down a lot as well. And we're seeing a significant amount of soybean supply on the market due to a large harvest in Brazil and Argentina. And so the crush margin environment today isn't anything like it was over the last four years. And so really that whole biodiesel industry, it's just -- it's got more challenges from a margin standpoint than it did, and we'll see how all that plays out as we go forward.

我要說的另一件事是破碎機的利潤也下降了很多。由於巴西和阿根廷的豐收，我們看到市場上有大量大豆供應。因此，今天的壓榨利潤環境與過去四年截然不同。事實上，整個生物柴油產業，從利潤的角度來看，它面臨著比以前更多的挑戰，我們將看到隨著我們的前進，這一切將如何發揮作用。

The next question comes from Dushyant Ailani from Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Dushyant Ailani。

I just wanted to quickly talk about just the LCFS market that the meeting was supposed to happen, but I think it's been pushed out. I don't know, I just wanted to -- doing some you guys, what you guys are hearing on that end?

我只是想快速談談會議本來應該舉行的 LCFS 市場，但我認為它已經被推遲了。我不知道，我只是想做一些事情，你們聽到了什麼？

This is Matt. I'll try to -- I mean, we see from our contacts and a lot of what we read in the news in terms of what to come, we know that, that is -- first of all, fundamentally, the LCFS is something that is very supportive for the industry. Now what -- how this plays out in California is still remains to be seen.

這是馬特。我會嘗試——我的意思是，我們從我們的聯絡人以及我們在新聞中讀到的很多內容中看到了即將發生的事情，我們知道，那就是——首先，從根本上來說，LCFS 是一個東西。這對該行業非常有支持。現在，加州的情況如何仍有待觀察。

Obviously, we know we came out last year. Now what additional changes are forthcoming from that remain to be seen. So we remain optimistic, and we believe that the -- what is in print is a good thing, but what other changes are still to come is a bit hard to pin down.

顯然，我們知道我們去年就出來了。現在還有哪些額外的變化還有待觀察。因此，我們保持樂觀，我們相信正在印刷的內容是一件好事，但仍將發生哪些其他變化有點難以確定。

Got it. And then just going to SAF. I know that Randy, you mentioned roughly $1, $2 above renewable diesel. Just want to understand what would you need to see going into 2025 once SAF capacity is online to maybe think about maybe converting more RD to SAF.

知道了。然後就去SAF。我知道蘭迪，你提到再生柴油的價格大約高出 1、2 美元。只是想了解，到 2025 年，一旦 SAF 產能上線，您需要看到什麼，也許會考慮將更多 RD 轉換為 SAF。

I think Dushyant is asking what's the gauging decision for FID on a second -- on expanding SAF.

我認為 Dushyant 是在問 FID 對擴大 SAF 的第二個衡量決定是什麼。

So that's a question that we, as you're asking, are working on right now. We do have that in the engineering phases foot right now. One of the things that we are looking to, as Randy mentioned earlier, is the commercial contracts against the SAF 1 plant. As you know, that's 250 million gallons that of ARD that's going to come up the market. But we really want to see, call it, a proof of concept in that and have a high degree of confidence.

正如您所問的，這是我們現在正在研究的問題。我們現在確實處於工程階段。正如蘭迪之前提到的，我們關注的事情之一是針對 SAF 1 工廠的商業合約。如您所知，市場上將有 2.5 億加侖的 ARD。但我們確實希望看到（稱之為概念驗證），並且對此抱持高度的信心。

The SAF 2, if it is to come to fruition, will be something in a larger scale. It'll be a little bit larger investment as well, but it's something that is absolutely on our radar and it would not surprise me in the next coming quarters if we don't have some good news in that space.

SAF 2如果要實現的話，規模將會更大。這也將是一個更大的投資，但這絕對是我們關注的事情，如果我們在這個領域沒有一些好消息，我不會在接下來的幾個季度感到驚訝。

The next question comes from Matthew Blair from Tudor, Pickering, Holt.

下一個問題來自 Tudor, Pickering, Holt 的 Matthew Blair。

Randy, how are you thinking about a potential dividend from Darling in 2024, do you need to hit investment grade first? Or is that something that's on the table?

Randy，您如何看待 Darling 在 2024 年的潛在股息？您需要先達到投資等級嗎？還是這是擺在桌面上的東西？

Yes. I mean, clearly, it's a discussion point at all times in the Board room. Clearly, our focus this year is to get the debt down to make sure that everybody thinks we've de-risked the business on commodity cycles. As I said, this is a very different business than we've had in the past.

是的。我的意思是，顯然，這始終是董事會的討論點。顯然，我們今年的重點是降低債務，以確保每個人都認為我們已經降低了商品週期的業務風險。正如我所說，這是一項與我們過去非常不同的業務。

It's a massive cash generator. Remember, we still -- we've got debt at DGD and then we've got to finish up the SAF outflows on that project. So at the end of the day, this year, we'll be focused on just paying down debt to the end of the year. And what I shared with the Board and what I share with other people is just, remember, we have some really favorably priced bonds or notes out there. The first one that comes due is in April of '26 and that's the European note that's in the, what, low 3 -- [3 and 5/8] and then another year later, comes to 5 and something [5 and 3/8] or whatever it is now on the U.S. bond.

這是一個巨大的現金發生器。請記住，我們仍然 - 我們在 DGD 上有債務，然後我們必須完成該專案的 SAF 資金流出。因此，今年歸根結底，我們將專注於償還債務到年底。我與董事會以及其他人分享的只是，請記住，我們有一些價格非常優惠的債券或票據。第一張到期日是 26 年 4 月，這是歐洲紙幣，低 3 - [3 和 5/8]，然後又一年後，達到 5 和一些 [5 和 3/ 8] 或現在美國債券上的任何內容。

So we're not in any rush to do anything there. We're going to build cash. Once we have cash and the revolvers paid off, we have all kinds of flexibility to do what we want to do. Clearly, we set in motion and done opportunistic buybacks. We will buy back our dilution of our executive compensation programs, and we'll -- as we see that the dividend start to come in from DGD, and we're getting to our leverage ratios that we want that the market expects, then it gives us a chance to do some things.

所以我們並不急於在那裡做任何事。我們要累積現金。一旦我們有了現金並且還清了左輪手槍，我們就可以靈活地做我們想做的事情。顯然，我們開始行動並進行了機會主義回購。我們將回購稀釋的高階主管薪酬計劃，當我們看到股息開始來自 DGD 時，我們將達到市場預期的槓桿率，然後讓我們有機會做一些事情。

I mean, clearly, we paid for Miropasz here about 26 days ago, that was $110 million. And so at the end of the day, we're trying to run the business, walk through what I'd say is just a debt, remember in global businesses like this. When you have these big super cycles, big mountains are followed by deep valleys. And so at the end of the day, we're navigating out of that, making the adjustments we need.

我的意思是，顯然，大約 26 天前我們為 Miropasz 支付了 1.1 億美元。因此，歸根結底，我們正在努力經營業務，處理我所說的只是債務，請記住在這樣的全球企業中。當你有這些大的超級循環時，高山之後就是深谷。因此，歸根結底，我們正在擺脫這種困境，並做出我們需要的調整。

But at the end of the day, when we look at '24, we'll get $400 million plus out of the debt. And then when you go to '25 and you got SAF and you don't have any other projects going on out there, then all of a sudden, it's pretty amazing how much cash you're generating and that's when the dividend discussion becomes an absolute reality or you're just going to trap too much cash on the balance sheet.

但最終，當我們看看 24 年時，我們將從債務中獲得 4 億多美元。然後，當你到了 25 年，你有了 SAF，並且沒有任何其他項目正在進行時，突然之間，你產生了多少現金，這是相當驚人的，那時股息討論就變成了一個問題。絕對現實，否則你就會在資產負債表上陷入太多現金。

Sounds good. And then just regarding the Valley reimbursement. So it sounds like you don't want to quantify that benefit in Q4. Could I just ask why?

聽起來不錯。然後就是關於山谷報銷的問題。因此，聽起來您不想在第四季度量化這一收益。可以簡單問一下為什麼嗎？

Yes. Matthew, this is Brad. So there's a confidentiality agreement there. So I'll say we've resolved certain outstanding cost and expense items under a post-close escrow arrangement, which we booked in Q4. That goes back to prior to Q4, some costs so it's not just cost in Q4, but there was a confidentiality arrangement with the seller there.

是的。馬修，這是布萊德。所以那裡有一個保密協議。因此，我想說，我們已經在第四季度預訂的交割後託管安排下解決了某些未決成本和費用項目。這可以追溯到第四季度之前，有一些成本，所以這不僅僅是第四季度的成本，而且與賣方有保密安排。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Randy Stuewe for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回蘭迪·斯圖威 (Randy Stuewe) 致閉幕詞。

All right. Thanks, everybody, for all the questions today. As always, if you have additional questions, please reach out to Suann, stay safe. Have a great day. We're off to Scotiabank's Conference, be presenting tomorrow there.

好的。謝謝大家今天提出的所有問題。一如既往，如果您還有其他問題，請聯絡 Suann，注意安全。祝你有美好的一天。我們要去參加豐業銀行的會議，明天將在那裡發表演說。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。