Clearway Energy Inc (CWEN) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Clearway Energy, Inc. First Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I'd now like to hand the conference over to your host today, Chris Sotos, President and CEO. Please go ahead.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Clearway Energy, Inc. 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。 （操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。現在我想將會議交給今天的東道主、總裁兼首席執行官克里斯·索托斯 (Chris Sotos)。請繼續。

Good morning. We first thank you for taking the time to join Clearway Energy, Inc.'s First Quarter call. Joining me this morning are Akil Marsh, Director of Investor Relations; Sarah Rubenstein, CFO; and Craig Cornelius, President and CEO of Clearway Energy Group, our sponsor. Craig will be available for the Q&A portion of our presentation.

早上好。首先，我們感謝您抽出時間參加 Clearway Energy, Inc. 的第一季度電話會議。今天早上和我一起來的是投資者關係總監阿基爾·馬什 (Akil Marsh)；莎拉·魯賓斯坦，首席財務官；以及我們的讚助商 Clearway Energy Group 總裁兼首席執行官 Craig Cornelius。克雷格將出席我們演講的問答部分。

Before we begin, I'd like to quickly note that today's discussion will contain forward-looking statements, which are based on assumptions that we believe to be reasonable as of this date. Actual results may differ materially. Please review the safe harbor in today's presentation as well as the risk factors in our SEC filings.

在開始之前，我想快速指出，今天的討論將包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述基於我們認為截至目前合理的假設。實際結果可能存在重大差異。請查看今天演示中的安全港以及我們向 SEC 提交的文件中的風險因素。

In addition, we will refer to both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. For information regarding our non-GAAP financial measures and reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP measures, please refer to today's presentation.

此外，我們將參考公認會計原則和非公認會計原則財務指標。有關我們的非公認會計原則財務指標以及與最直接可比的公認會計原則指標的調節的信息，請參閱今天的演示文稿。

Turning to Page 3. The company had a soft quarter driven primarily by weak renewable resource due to the heavy rainfall in California and the West Coast. CAFD was negative $4 million for the first quarter. Clearly is announcing an increase in its dividend of 2% to $0.3818 per share in the second quarter of 2023 or $1.5272 on an annualized basis, keeping us on target to achieve the upper range of our dividend growth objectives for 2023. We are also reaffirming our 2023 CAFD guidance of $410 million.

翻到第 3 頁。該公司季度表現疲軟，主要是由於加州和西海岸的強降雨導致可再生資源疲軟。第一季度 CAFD 負 400 萬美元。 Clearly 宣布 2023 年第二季度股息增加 2%，至每股 0.3818 美元，年化股息為 1.5272 美元，使我們能夠實現 2023 年股息增長目標的上限。我們還重申我們的股息增長目標2023 年 CAFD 指導值為 4.1 億美元。

Clearway continues its focus on growth at all levels of the enterprise. Our sponsor's pipeline has grown to 29.3 gigawatts, including 6.9 gigawatts of late-stage projects expected to reach COD in the next 4 years. We're excited to announce our commitment to the Cedro Hill repowering project. We will go over the project in more detail in a couple of slides, but this repowering will deploy approximately $63 million in capital while extending the PPA duration to 2045, significantly derisking the value of the asset.

Clearway 繼續關注企業各個層面的增長。我們的讚助商的管道已增長至 29.3 吉瓦，其中包括 6.9 吉瓦的後期項目，預計將在未來 4 年內達到 COD。我們很高興地宣布我們對塞德羅山重建項目的承諾。我們將在幾張幻燈片中更詳細地介紹該項目，但此次重新供電將部署約 6300 萬美元的資本，同時將購電協議期限延長至 2045 年，從而大大降低了資產價值的風險。

Focusing on the 5-year CAFD starting in the 2027 period of over 9%. Cedro will create accretion beyond the assumptions embedded in the $2.15 of CAFD per share when fully repowered. Clearway Energy, Inc. continues to work on commitments from the October 2022 drop-down offers and expect to have them completed by the end of the second quarter. In addition, Clearway Group now has visibility into nearly 600 megawatts of additional projects that will also continue growth in the future beyond the $2.15 of CAFD per share. While it is too early to update anticipate capital deployment and CAFD creation for these new asset additions, Clearway considers the projects far enough along to start adding them to our growth profile.

重點關注從2027年開始的5年期CAFD超過9%。當完全重新啟動後，Cedro 將創造超出每股 CAFD 2.15 美元的假設的增值。 Clearway Energy, Inc. 繼續致力於履行 2022 年 10 月下拉報價中的承諾，並預計在第二季度末完成。此外，Clearway Group 現在還擁有近 600 兆瓦的額外項目，這些項目未來也將繼續增長，超過每股 CAFD 2.15 美元。雖然現在更新這些新增資產的預期資本部署和 CAFD 創建還為時過早，但 Clearway 認為這些項目已經足夠成熟，可以開始將它們添加到我們的增長概況中。

Given the capital market volatility in recent months, I want to take a moment to remind our investors that we have enough capital to fund our line of sight drop-downs that underpin our $2.15 CAFD per share long-term target. In addition, at our 2023 guidance, we generated approximately $100 million of excess cash that can be deployed towards investments in the business as well.

鑑於近幾個月資本市場的波動，我想花點時間提醒我們的投資者，我們有足夠的資本來為我們的視線下降提供資金，從而支撐我們每股 2.15 美元 CAFD 的長期目標。此外，根據我們的 2023 年指導，我們產生了大約 1 億美元的超額現金，這些現金也可以用於業務投資。

As an additional source of liquidity, we recently increased our revolver size from $495 million to $700 million, creating internal liquidity for drop-downs, third-party acquisitions or LC issuances to support the business, particularly as we seek to add RA capacity contracts on certain of our California natural gas assets. This significant internal liquidity is further strengthened by the fact that our long-term corporate leverage will be at the low end of our targeted range with some capacity for additional corporate debt before there'd be a need to issue any additional equity.

作為流動性的額外來源，我們最近將循環規模從 4.95 億美元增加到 7 億美元，為下拉、第三方收購或信用證發行創造內部流動性以支持業務，特別是當我們尋求在 RA 產能合同中添加時我們的某些加州天然氣資產。我們的長期企業槓桿率將處於目標範圍的低端，並且在需要發行任何額外股權之前具有一定的額外企業債務能力，這一事實進一步增強了這種重要的內部流動性。

In summary, Clearway feels we are well positioned to manage this period of capital market volatility and continue our growth trajectory without needing to access the capital markets. In summary, Clearway continues to execute its growth plan with a very strong internal liquidity profile that is well positioned to grow beyond the $2.15 of CAFD per share, combined with the DPS growth rate at the upper range through 2026.

總而言之，Clearway 認為我們有能力應對這段資本市場波動時期，並在無需進入資本市場的情況下繼續我們的增長軌跡。總而言之，Clearway 繼續以非常強勁的內部流動性狀況執行其增長計劃，該流動性狀況處於有利位置，可以增長至超過每股 CAFD 2.15 美元，加上到 2026 年 DPS 增長率處於上限。

Turning to Slide 4. Here are more details on the financial results of the first quarter. Clearway is reporting adjusted EBITDA of $218 million and cash available for distribution or CAFD of negative $4 million. In the quarter, results were below expectations, primarily due to weaker results in the renewables segment. Our California solar assets were impacted by above-average rainfall, which led to lower solar irradiance and thus production coming in below expectations.

轉向幻燈片 4。以下是有關第一季度財務業績的更多詳細信息。 Clearway 報告調整後 EBITDA 為 2.18 億美元，可用於分配的現金或 CAFD 為負 400 萬美元。本季度的業績低於預期，主要是由於可再生能源領域的業績疲弱。我們的加州太陽能資產受到降雨量高於平均水平的影響，導致太陽輻照度降低，產量低於預期。

Additionally, our wind portfolio experienced lower-than-expected production for the quarter, which impacted CAFD generation. Although significant driver to the quarterly results was from the conventional fleets, extended spring outages and preventive maintenance ahead of the summer merchant energy period. We continue to believe the conventional fleet is well positioned to provide critical grid reliability services as well as generate additional revenue from dispatching into the merchant power market in the second half of 2023.

此外，我們的風電投資組合本季度的產量低於預期，這影響了 CAFD 發電。儘管季度業績的重要推動因素來自傳統車隊、春季停電時間延長以及夏季商業能源期之前的預防性維護。我們仍然相信，傳統船隊處於有利位置，可以提供關鍵的電網可靠性服務，並在 2023 年下半年通過調度到商業電力市場來產生額外收入。

As discussed earlier, our liquidity and balance sheet are well positioned to execute on growth with no equity or debt issuance need to achieve our 2026 DPS growth objectives, significant undrawn revolver capacity and strong credit metrics. While the first quarter results came in below our expected seasonality for the quarter, we want to remind investors that achievement of full year results is highly weighted on both the second and third quarters, with the revenue contribution from renewable resources and the conventional fleet is typically highest. Given the seasonality of the portfolio, the conventional fleet starting merchant dispatch in the second half of the year and only 1/4 of the year complete, we are reaffirming our 2023 guidance of $410 million.

如前所述，我們的流動性和資產負債表處於有利位置，可以實現增長，無需發行股票或債務即可實現我們的 2026 年 DPS 增長目標、大量未提取的循環能力和強大的信貸指標。雖然第一季度業績低於我們對本季度季節性的預期，但我們想提醒投資者，全年業績的實現對第二季度和第三季度的影響很大，可再生資源和傳統船隊的收入貢獻通常是最高。考慮到投資組合的季節性，傳統船隊在下半年開始商業調度，並且今年僅完成了 1/4，我們重申 2023 年 4.1 億美元的指導。

Turning to Page 5. I want to highlight our Cedro Hill repowering project. Overall, this repowering is a great success for extending the asset's useful life, improving its risk profile and driving our CAFD per share growth profile. As part of the repowering, Cedro Hill will be upgraded with new GE technology, increasing its nameplate capacity by 10 megawatts and has projected annual production by approximately 14%. We are pleased to have the opportunity to work with our customer to amend and extend the existing PPA by 15 years, providing the asset with 22 years of remaining price certainty.

翻到第 5 頁。我想強調一下我們的 Cedro Hill 重建項目。總體而言，此次重組取得了巨大成功，有助於延長資產的使用壽命、改善其風險狀況並推動我們的 CAFD 每股增長。作為改造的一部分，Cedro Hill 將採用新的 GE 技術進行升級，將其銘牌容量增加 10 兆瓦，預計年產量增加約 14%。我們很高興有機會與客戶合作，修改現有購電協議並將其延長 15 年，為資產提供 22 年的剩餘價格確定性。

Given the locational value of this resource, this outcome will be a win for both our customer and for Clearway. We'll also (inaudible) deploy a turbine repowering technology that has been proven very technically efficient elsewhere in our fleet. Importantly, the Cedro repowering is projected to have a healthy average CAFD yield of approximately 9% beginning in 2027, which will create accretion beyond the assumptions and bed in the $2.15 of CAFD per share.

考慮到該資源的區位價值，這一結果對於我們的客戶和 Clearway 來說都是雙贏。我們還將（聽不清）部署渦輪機重新供電技術，該技術已在我們機隊的其他地方被證明在技術上非常高效。重要的是，預計從 2027 年開始，Cedro 的平均 CAFD 收益率將保持在約 9% 的健康水平，這將帶來超出假設的增值，並達到每股 2.15 美元的 CAFD 水平。

Cedro (inaudible) its repowering commercial operation date in the second half of 2024 and is anticipated to be funded by excess cash generation. This repowering continues our strong track record of accretively upgrading our wind fleet, having successfully repowered over 650 megawatts of assets to date.

Cedro（聽不清）其重新供電商業運營日期為 2024 年下半年，預計將通過超額現金生成提供資金。這次改造延續了我們不斷升級風電機組的良好記錄，迄今為止已成功改造了超過 650 兆瓦的資產。

Page 6 provides an update of progress of the previously discussed drop-downs from our sponsor. The left side of the page represents our pro forma CAFD outlook inclusive of Victory Pass and Arica. We are currently not including Cedro Hill repowering as the move in CAFD is relatively small. We will modify our pro forma CAFD outlook and line of sight CAFD more comprehensively later in the year when we have more assets committed. The remaining drop-downs that we are currently working on with Clearway Group represent anticipated additional $180 million of capital deployment, which are expected to turn into binding commitments by the end of the second quarter. This would then be followed by the next drop-down offer of approximately $220 million.

第 6 頁提供了我們贊助商之前討論的下拉列表的最新進展。頁面左側代表我們預計的 CAFD 前景，包括 Victory Pass 和 Arica。我們目前不包括 Cedro Hill 的重新供電，因為 CAFD 的變動相對較小。今年晚些時候，當我們投入更多資產時，我們將更全面地修改我們的預計 CAFD 前景和視線 CAFD。我們目前正在與 Clearway Group 合作的剩餘項目預計將增加 1.8 億美元的資本部署，預計將在第二季度末轉變為具有約束力的承諾。隨後將進行下一次大約 2.2 億美元的下拉報價。

Importantly, these assets have a strong CAFD yield on a portfolio basis so that Clearway can continue to generate accretive returns for our shareholders. Our $440 million of potential line of sight CAFD does not include any contribution from the roughly 600 megawatts of newly identified drop-down assets. When the capital deployment and CAFD generation of these assets is more well defined, we will update our $2.15 CAFD per share number to account for this additional growth.

重要的是，這些資產在投資組合基礎上具有強勁的 CAFD 收益率，因此 Clearway 可以繼續為我們的股東創造增值回報。我們 4.4 億美元的潛在視線 CAFD 不包括新確定的約 600 兆瓦的下拉資產的任何貢獻。當這些資產的資本部署和 CAFD 生成得到更明確的定義後，我們將更新每股 2.15 美元的 CAFD 數字，以反映這一額外增長。

Page 7 provides some details around additional advancement Clearway's long-term growth. And while these projects are not far enough along to provide updates to capital deployment in CAFD, development has progressed far enough that Clearway Group feels confident enough to add them to the list of assets that will eventually be offered. These assets represent nearly 600 megawatts of additional opportunities that will have funding days in the first half of 2025 and support growth in CAFD per share beyond the $2.15 target we have discussed previously. The projects highlighted are not the full extent of growth that is being developed at Clearway Group but our anchor tenants in a 1 gigawatt portfolio of diversified assets that will provide additional growth.

第 7 頁提供了有關 Clearway 長期增長的額外進展的一些詳細信息。雖然這些項目還不足以為 CAFD 的資本部署提供更新，但開發進展已經足夠大，Clearway Group 有足夠的信心將它們添加到最終將提供的資產列表中。這些資產代表著近 600 兆瓦的額外機會，這些機會將在 2025 年上半年獲得融資，並支持每股 CAFD 的增長超過我們之前討論的 2.15 美元目標。所強調的項目並不是 Clearway Group 正在開發的全部增長項目，而是我們 1 吉瓦多元化資產組合中的主要租戶，這將帶來額外的增長。

As we work through all the opportunities of the IRA, we will continue to analyze ways to optimize our fleet through repowering and opportunities to add storage to existing facilities. As I have discussed on previous calls, a key component of achieving value for this optimization option is customer interest. We are now seeing evidence of this in multiple markets across our fleet. (inaudible) provides some sense of scale of these opportunities with approximately 2.3 gigawatts between 2025 and 2028. As always, we'll be cognizant of exercising these options in a way that manages capital formation and value optimization for Clearway shareholders.

在我們利用 IRA 的所有機會時，我們將繼續分析通過重新供電來優化我們的機隊的方法以及為現有設施添加存儲的機會。正如我在之前的電話會議中所討論的，實現此優化選項價值的一個關鍵因素是客戶興趣。我們現在在我們機隊的多個市場中看到了這一點的證據。 （聽不清）提供了這些機會的一些規模感，2025 年至 2028 年期間約為 2.3 吉瓦。一如既往，我們將認識到以管理資本形成和 Clearway 股東價值優化的方式行使這些選擇。

Turning to Page 8. Our goals for 2023 have not changed to deliver on our CAFD guidance, grow our dividend at the upper range of our objectives and continue to execute on our growth plan. Clearway continues to work through commitments for the remaining drop-down offers from October of 2022 by the end of the second quarter of 2023 and received the next offer on further commitments to continue our growth path as well.

轉向第 8 頁。我們 2023 年的目標沒有改變，即實現 CAFD 指導、在目標上限範圍內增加股息並繼續執行我們的增長計劃。 Clearway 繼續在 2022 年 10 月到 2023 年第二季度末履行對剩餘下拉優惠的承諾，並收到了下一份關於進一步承諾的優惠，以繼續我們的增長道路。

Clearway is focused on demonstrating the visibility to CAFD share growth through 2027 and beyond and it's $2.15 of CAFD per share long-term objective. We are working to achieve this by investing additional growth projects beyond the drop-downs already discussed with repowering such as Cedro Hill as well as third-party M&A and also continuing to work at original and/or extending the RA contracts on our California natural gas assets. In summary, Clearway Energy Inc. continues its focus on prudent growth and has confident in its ability to meet us long-term growth objectives due in part to strong sponsor support to ensure Clearway success. Operator, please open the lines for questions.

Clearway 致力於展示 2027 年及以後 CAFD 份額增長的可見性，其長期目標是每股 CAFD 2.15 美元。我們正在努力實現這一目標，除了已經討論過的 Cedro Hill 等電力改造項目以及第三方併購之外，還投資更多的增長項目，並繼續致力於加州天然氣的原始和/或擴展 RA 合同資產。總之，Clearway Energy Inc. 繼續注重審慎增長，並對其實現長期增長目標的能力充滿信心，部分原因是讚助商的大力支持，以確保 Clearway 的成功。接線員，請打開提問線路。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Noah Kaye with Oppenheimer.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自諾亞·凱和奧本海默。

Maybe just to start with a health check on the operating environment. Can you comment to what you're seeing in terms of flow of panels and batteries? Are we starting to see some easing bottlenecks here and just how that plays into expectations for some of the timing of these drop-downs?

也許只是從對操作環境的健康檢查開始。您能否對您所看到的面板和電池流量發表評論？我們是否開始看到一些瓶頸的緩解以及這如何影響對這些下降時間的預期？

Sure. That phenomenon is kind of been taking into account with the timings of the drop-downs we have in our appendix. But Craig, you're obviously closer to that. I'll let you speak to that.

當然。我們在附錄中的下拉菜單的時間安排中已經考慮到了這種現象。但克雷格，你顯然更接近這個目標。我會讓你談談這個。

Yes. Thanks for the question, Noah. We're really pleased with our execution and in an environment, which I think you're right to note has been challenging for some. So in our case, for the projects that underpin current committed growth expectations for Clearway Energy, Inc. We're ahead of schedule on module deliveries. That's true for both Daggett and for Victory Pass and Arica. And that reflects the success we've had with those projects over really the time since we've been in execution and some of the cluttered policy issues that you're referencing have impacted module deliveries for others. So we're really quite pleased with the decisions we've made, the support we've gotten from our suppliers and have the procurement strategy we've had to underpin growth for CWEN is playing out.

是的。謝謝你的提問，諾亞。我們對我們的執行力和環境感到非常滿意，我認為你注意到的對某些人來說是具有挑戰性的，這是正確的。因此，就我們而言，對於支撐 Clearway Energy, Inc. 當前承諾增長預期的項目，我們在組件交付方面提前了。對於達吉特、勝利帕斯和阿里卡來說都是如此。這反映了自從我們執行以來我們在這些項目上所取得的成功，以及您提到的一些混亂的政策問題影響了其他人的模塊交付。因此，我們對我們所做的決定、我們從供應商獲得的支持以及支持 CWEN 增長的採購策略感到非常滿意。

Okay. Great. And then it's great to see some of the repowering opportunities start to materialize. I think, Chris, you had mentioned over a couple of gigawatts of potential opportunities, interest across the fleet. When you kind of bucket that into opportunities where it seems like the CAFD yields might pencil out similarly to this one. I mean is that broadly true for all the opportunities you've identified? Have you sharpened your pencils on that yet? Is there a subset that you have high conviction and what can you share with us?

好的。偉大的。然後很高興看到一些重新啟動的機會開始實現。我想，克里斯，你提到了整個艦隊的幾千兆瓦的潛在機會和興趣。當你將其投入機會時，CAFD 收益率可能會與此類似。我的意思是，對於您發現的所有機會來說，這基本上都是正確的嗎？你削鉛筆了嗎？您是否對某個子集深信不疑？您可以與我們分享什麼？

I think it's frankly too early to say to pencil in a CAFD yield that we anticipate. Don't get wrong, I don't think they're going to be 4% or something like that. But I do think it's too early to the point I tried to raise on the 600 megawatts and the like. Obviously, these are pretty early stage. We've gone through the one that we think we're in late stage on. So I don't want to kind of like level set that all of them will be at this range. Obviously, as I've talked about on other calls, we've got 3 different types of repowering, like one like Cedro Hill, where you have an asset that's performing really well and kind of like the CAFD, the improvement in CAFD generation, while strong, may not be that high because the asset is performing well today.

坦率地說，我認為現在就預測我們預期的 CAFD 收益率還為時過早。別誤會，我不認為他們會是 4% 或類似的數字。但我確實認為現在就我試圖籌集 600 兆瓦等資金還為時過早。顯然，這些還處於早期階段。我們已經經歷了我們認為已經處於後期階段的問題。所以我不想把它們都設置在這個範圍內。顯然，正如我在其他電話中談到的那樣，我們有 3 種不同類型的重新供電，比如像 Cedro Hill 這樣的一種，你擁有一種表現非常好的資產，有點像 CAFD，即 CAFD 發電的改進，雖然強勁，但可能不會那麼高，因為該資產今天表現良好。

There's a second type where you basically have an asset that's performing well, but maybe has maintenance CapEx coming up in the future or additional volatility and degradation or O&M that's needed. In essence, you may not really see the uplift because it's kind of at a further stage. The third and the easiest one to demonstrate value on our assets that are performing poorly. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of that third category. So I think in terms of CAFD uplift, don't want -- the reason I don't want to kind of get out of head is it's really dependent on the individual circumstances of the asset we're dealing with.

還有第二種類型，您基本上擁有運行良好的資產，但將來可能會出現維護資本支出，或者需要額外的波動和退化或運維。從本質上講，你可能並沒有真正看到提升，因為它還處於更進一步的階段。第三個也是最簡單的一個，可以證明我們表現不佳的資產的價值。不幸的是，我們沒有很多第三類。因此，我認為就 CAFD 提升而言，我不想失去理智的原因是，它實際上取決於我們正在處理的資產的具體情況。

Yes. Maybe just sneaking one more. I think double clicking on the point that you don't need equity incrementally to fund the growth through 26. Can you just walk us through a little bit more your thoughts around additional leverage capacity at the project level? And then just what's the comfort level for you in terms of an upper bound for consolidated leverage?

是的。或許只是再偷偷偷偷拿一張。我認為雙擊這一點，即您不需要逐步增加股本來為 26 年前的增長提供資金。您能否向我們介紹一下您對項目層面額外槓桿能力的更多想法？那麼，就合併槓桿率的上限而言，您的舒適度是多少？

Sure. So a couple of different questions there. In terms of nonrecourse debt, we kind of have certain pockets. For example, we didn't lever on a nonrecourse basis, the other half of our Utah purchase when we basically got thermal proceeds. So there's kind of elements like that within the book. I do think the bigger lever though, that we might use before that, depending on exactly the nature of the asset, is that corporate debt.

當然。這裡有幾個不同的問題。就無追索權債務而言，我們有一定的資金。例如，當我們基本上獲得熱能收益時，我們沒有在無追索權的基礎上槓桿化，即我們在猶他州購買的另一半。所以書中有類似的元素。我確實認為，在此之前我們可能會使用更大的槓桿，具體取決於資產的性質，那就是公司債務。

And I think just to give you kind of a range finder, our corporate debt overall is obviously about $2.125 billion in terms of the bonds that we have at our $410 million CAFD guidance, you've got between $90 million and $95 million of corporate interest. So that ratio gets you to kind of low 4x plus minus, and the upper range is about 4.5x at least from the rating agencies. Obviously, if they focus on one metric, they look at things like FFO to debt, interest rate environment matters, but just to give you a quick calc, just a rough calc.

我認為，為了給你一個測距儀，我們的公司債務總額顯然約為 21.25 億美元，按照我們 4.1 億美元 CAFD 指導的債券計算，你有 9,000 萬至 9,500 萬美元的公司利息。因此，這個比率會讓你得到 4 倍加減的低值，而評級機構的上限至少約為 4.5 倍。顯然，如果他們專注於一個指標，他們會考慮 FFO 與債務、利率環境等因素，但只是為了給你一個快速計算，只是一個粗略的計算。

Our next question comes from Angie Storozynski with Seaport.

我們的下一個問題來自 Seaport 的 Angie Storozynski。

So first, just one more question about project level debt and its availability and cost. So I mean, you show the allocation of thermal proceeds for -- to finance growth. But I'm assuming that there is obviously an assumption of project level debt that is being added to these assets. So could you comment on any increase in the cost of that debt and how that impacts your expected cash flow generation from these assets?

首先，還有一個關於項目級債務及其可用性和成本的問題。所以我的意思是，你展示了熱力收益的分配——為增長提供資金。但我假設顯然存在項目級債務的假設被添加到這些資產中。那麼，您能否評論一下債務成本的增加以及這將如何影響您從這些資產中產生的預期現金流？

Sure. It doesn't -- I'll maybe answer your second question before the first. It doesn't affect the expected cash flow generation that significantly because, obviously, the corporate capital we're putting in is after those costs, and that's pretty well defined. I think to your point, the credit spreads aren't really showing that much volatility. I think it's more a sulfur swap to fixed phenomenon that may increase the cost there. But I don't think we've seen a significant increase in the credit spread on nonrecourse debt.

當然。事實並非如此——我可能會在第一個問題之前回答你的第二個問題。它不會對預期現金流量產生太大影響，因為顯然，我們投入的公司資本是在這些成本之後的，而且這是非常明確的。我認為就你的觀點而言，信用利差並沒有真正表現出那麼大的波動性。我認為這更多的是硫磺與固定現象的交換，可能會增加那裡的成本。但我認為我們沒有看到無追索權債務的信用利差顯著增加。

And Chris, if I could add to that, Angie. What we do as a business practice, Angie, is at the same time that we execute major revenue contracts for projects that will become part of the growth profile for [sealing]. We also put in place long-term interest rate hedges of some kind and secure major equipment for the projects. And we do that so that we can largely fix the stream of expected cash flows for a project when it is commercialized.

克里斯，如果我可以補充一點的話，安吉。安吉，我們作為商業實踐所做的同時，我們還為項目執行主要收入合同，這些合同將成為[密封]增長概況的一部分。我們還實施了某種長期利率對沖，並確保了項目的主要設備。我們這樣做是為了在很大程度上確定項目商業化時的預期現金流量。

That might not have been industry practice some years ago, but given what we've all observed around a more complex supply chain environment and also more complex interest rate environment. We find it useful to try to fix all those things simultaneously. So we do that, and that allows us to be confident in the CAFD per share contribution from any given asset even before a commitment is made by the yieldco, but certainly as of the date that the commitments made.

幾年前這可能不是行業慣例，但考慮到我們在更複雜的供應鏈環境和更複雜的利率環境中所觀察到的情況。我們發現嘗試同時解決所有這些問題很有用。因此，我們這樣做了，這使我們能夠對任何給定資產的每股 CAFD 貢獻充滿信心，甚至在 Yieldco 做出承諾之前，但當然是在做出承諾之日。

Okay. Okay. And then probably even more importantly, so we are increasingly scrutinizing the quality of CAFD of different yield costs, how it's financed. You guys have a pretty substantial debt amortization on an annual basis, especially associated with the 3 California assets. I mean, is there -- as you think about the future, is there a certain mix between Holdco nonamortizing debt and project level debt that you're comfortable with? And also, is there any deferred financing like anything -- I clearly don't see it, but anything that could catch up with you in the next couple of years, some sort of a deferred benefit of low short-term rates that we had over the last couple of years.

好的。好的。或許更重要的是，我們越來越多地審查不同收益成本的 CAFD 的質量及其融資方式。你們每年都有相當可觀的債務攤銷，尤其是與加州的 3 項資產相關的債務。我的意思是，當您考慮未來時，控股公司非攤銷債務和項目級債務之間是否存在某種讓您感到滿意的組合？而且，是否有任何遞延融資之類的東西——我顯然沒有看到它，但任何可以在未來幾年內趕上你的東西，我們擁有的低短期利率的某種遞延收益在過去的幾年裡。

Sure. So a couple of different questions there. I think part one, in terms of the corporate bonds, there's nothing like that, the earliest corporate bond maturity is 2028 and then the next is 2031 and 2032. If we look to our nonrecourse project financing, we don't really have any large requirements for refinancing until the third quarter of 2024. And once again, yes, not to minimize that, but that's about $100 million, $150 million in terms of principal.

當然。這裡有幾個不同的問題。我認為第一部分，就公司債券而言，沒有這樣的事情，最早的公司債券到期日是2028年，然後是2031年和2032年。如果我們看看我們的無追索權項目融資，我們真的沒有任何大型的融資。到 2024 年第三季度的再融資要求。再一次強調，是的，並不是要最小化這一點，但就本金而言，這大約是 1 億美元、1.5 億美元。

And once again, to the point, the credit spreads aren't moving much, we'll see what happens on a SOFR swap basis. So I think nothing in 2023, really 2024, there is that 1 refinancing and all corporate debt is locked down until 2028. We're also about 99%, 98%, 99% fixed in terms of having our nonrecourse debt swapped. So overall, Angie, not a lot other than that repricing that may occur in the third quarter of 2024 when we redo that nonrecourse financing.

再說一次，信用利差並沒有太大變化，我們將看看 SOFR 掉期基礎上會發生什麼。因此，我認為 2023 年，實際上是 2024 年，不會再有 1 次再融資，所有公司債務都將被鎖定到 2028 年。我們的無追索權債務互換也大約有 99%、98%、99% 被固定。因此，總體而言，Angie，除了 2024 年第三季度我們重新進行無追索權融資時可能發生的重新定價之外，沒有太多其他事情。

And when you say that you're within your credit targets, is it -- just remind me again, is it 4x Holdco debt to parent level CAFD? Or again, what is the metric that I'm trying to [solve for]?

當你說你在你的信貸目標之內時，是不是——再次提醒我，它是母公司級別 CAFD 的 4 倍 Holdco 債務嗎？或者再說一遍，我想要[解決]的指標是什麼？

Sure. Yes, it's basically between 4% and 4.5%, and that's kind of the calc I went through a little bit on the last quarter. So the way we look at that is you take your total corporate debt, the $2.125 billion of bonds. You divide that by corporate level CAFD plus corporate level interest. And so you take our $410 million of guidance, you add between, I think, it's between $90 million and $95 million of overall corporate interest that gives you, obviously, about $510 million. That's the ratio that gets you, like I said, to a low end of the 4% range. So we should be at the lower end of that range looking at that one. That's a key metric we try to solve for.

當然。是的，基本上在 4% 到 4.5% 之間，這就是我在上個季度進行的一些計算。因此，我們看待這一問題的方式是計算公司總債務，即 21.25 億美元的債券。您可以將其除以公司層面的 CAFD 加上公司層面的利息。因此，您採用我們 4.1 億美元的指導，我認為，您添加 9000 萬美元至 9500 萬美元的整體企業利益，顯然可以為您帶來約 5.1 億美元。正如我所說，這個比率使您處於 4% 範圍的低端。所以我們應該在這個範圍的下限來看待這個問題。這是我們試圖解決的一個關鍵指標。

Our next question comes from Mark Jarvi with CIBC.

我們的下一個問題來自 CIBC 的 Mark Jarvi。

Just in terms of the commitments that you expect to finalize this quarter, is that [occasion] will be all done together? And I guess, is there any one of those projects that are a bit trickier to say I guess, get across the finish line to figure out that might be pushed out into subsequent quarters.

就您預計本季度完成的承諾而言，[場合]會一起完成嗎？我想，是否有任何一個項目有點棘手，我想，越過終點線才能弄清楚它可能會被推遲到接下來的幾個季度。

I don't think that the projects -- I mean the time line we have is the time line we think is appropriate in terms of those assets, if that's kind of what you're asking. And I think in terms of will all of them necessarily be signed at the exact same time, that's not probable. We kind of go through the assets as they come in different diligence speeds on them.

我不認為這些項目——我的意思是我們的時間表是我們認為就這些資產而言合適的時間表，如果這就是你所要求的。我認為就所有這些都必須在同一時間簽署而言，這是不可能的。我們會以不同的調查速度對資產進行審查。

Obviously, out of that first drop-down, we refer to as drop down 24%, which is Victory Pass/Arica plus the remaining $182 million of capital associated with that. We obviously did Victory Pass/Arica first because that was the furthest along. So to answer your question, don't expect them all to be done at one time. There'll probably be a variety of announcements coming out along the lines of the different assets; and two, the timing that we have in our appendix is what we think currently.

顯然，在第一次下降中，我們稱之為下降 24%，即 Victory Pass/Arica 加上與之相關的剩餘 1.82 億美元資本。顯然，我們首先去了勝利山口/阿里卡，因為那是最遠的。因此，要回答您的問題，不要指望一次性完成所有這些工作。可能會根據不同的資產發佈各種公告；第二，附錄中的時間安排是我們目前的想法。

Okay. And just coming back to the 2.3 gigawatts of storage and wind repowering projects. What would you frame as a good success rate if you thought about that? Like do you see as potentially 50% of that in terms of (inaudible) last couple of years? Or is it just too hard to give any numbers at this point given all the negotiations that have to come through?

好的。回到 2.3 吉瓦的儲能和風力發電項目。如果您考慮到這一點，您會認為什麼才是良好的成功率？就像您認為過去幾年（聽不清）有可能達到 50% 嗎？或者考慮到必須完成的所有談判，現在給出任何數字是否太難了？

Craig, would you want to take that one?

克雷格，你想拿那個嗎？

Sure. Yes, I think we've -- I think giving you a particular probability right now is probably premature. What we can say is this for all of the volume you see represented there, we have active engagement with and in most cases, with the existing customer for those facilities. And that is a very meaningful change over the picture just 1 year ago and I think reflects a recognition from load-serving entities across the country that the clean energy assets that were deployed first in our grid tend to be located in places where their resource and their place in the transmission position is especially useful.

當然。是的，我認為我們——我認為現在給你一個特定的概率可能還為時過早。我們可以說的是，對於您所看到的所有數量，我們都在積極與這些設施的現有客戶進行接觸，並且在大多數情況下，與這些設施的現有客戶進行接觸。與一年前相比，這是一個非常有意義的變化，我認為反映了全國各地負載服務實體的認識，即首先在我們的電網中部署的清潔能源資產往往位於其資源和資源充足的地方。它們在傳輸位置上的位置特別有用。

And between that locational value of our existing fleet and the substantial flexibility and economic benefit that the structure of incentives in the Inflation Reduction Act provides, there's a real strong catalyst for engagement with load-serving entities and other customers to contract for resources at these locations for a very long term at economics that are attractive to us and also to try to expand or supplement them where either the renewable resource can be increased in size or where we can augment it with batteries. And so what we see now is the ability to extend contracts for, I think, materially longer periods than repowering is generally supported before.

在我們現有機隊的位置價值與《通貨膨脹減少法案》中的激勵結構所提供的巨大靈活性和經濟效益之間，對於與負載服務實體和其他客戶簽訂合同在這些地點的資源具有真正強大的催化劑從長遠來看，這對我們有吸引力，並試圖擴大或補充它們，要么可以增加可再生資源的規模，要么我們可以用電池來增強它。因此，我們現在看到的是，我認為，延長合同的期限比以前普遍支持的重新供電期限要長得多。

You see that in the extended duration of the agreement we reached for Cedro Hill, and importantly, incentive structure for storage that allows us to deploy storage at those locations without some of the structuring complexities that one had to go through before the IRAs passage. So I feel pretty constructive that over time, we're going to be able to repower, expand or hybridize a pretty substantial fraction of our fleet. And it's really just a question of when we get to do that. And what you see on that page just represents the ones where we're in active conversations today.

您會看到，在我們為 Cedro Hill 達成的協議的延長期限內，重要的是，存儲激勵結構使我們能夠在這些地點部署存儲，而無需在 IRA 通過之前必須經歷一些結構複雜性。因此，我認為隨著時間的推移，我們將能夠對我們機隊的相當大一部分進行重新供電、擴展或混合動力。這實際上只是我們何時能夠做到這一點的問題。您在該頁面上看到的內容僅代表我們今天正在進行的積極對話。

Understood. And then just in terms of the conversations around (inaudible) storage and the comments before have been that you have to get someone to be willing to pay for that upside and (inaudible) in counterparties. Is there any other opportunities you're seeing or structure you could see around trying to get storage built with the existing utility partner for that wind or solar asset? Does it want to (inaudible)?

明白了。然後，就圍繞（聽不清）存儲的對話和之前的評論而言，您必須讓某人願意為交易對手方的好處和（聽不清）付出代價。您是否看到了任何其他機會或結構可以嘗試與現有的公用事業合作夥伴為該風能或太陽能資產建造存儲？它想要（聽不清）嗎？

Meaning if they want to own the storage as a transmission asset or something they dispatch?

這意味著他們是否想擁有存儲作為傳輸資產或他們調度的東西？

Or like if there's some way like if you're going to be kind of just seeing arbitrage on time of day and it's kind of quasi merchant, as there's some sort of financial structures, what you could do in terms of that?

或者就像如果有某種方式，如果你只是在一天中的某個時間看到套利，這是一種準商人，因為存在某種金融結構，那麼你可以做什麼？

Yes. I mean I think we're kind of at the dawn of a real renaissance for how these assets can be structured commercially, how they can be financed. And also how power markets and will be regulated and we'll make market designs that generate revenues or procurement obligations on behalf of utilities where storage is a useful resource. And I think we can look at California kind of as being instructive, where eventually storage was viewed as a pretty essential resource, and there was a combination of IRPs that were generated that expected storage as a central resource procurement direction that was either proposed by utilities or mandated by their regulatory commission.

是的。我的意思是，我認為我們正處於真正復興的曙光，這些復興涉及如何對這些資產進行商業構建以及如何為其融資。還有電力市場將如何受到監管，我們將進行市場設計，以代表公用事業公司產生收入或採購義務，其中存儲是一種有用的資源。我認為我們可以將加利福尼亞州視為具有啟發性的，最終存儲被視為一種非常重要的資源，並且生成了一系列IRP，預期存儲作為中央資源採購方向，這要么是由公用事業公司提出的或由其監管委員會授權。

And that structure is producing assets that are very compatible with the yieldco's investment mandate with long-term revenue profiles. And we're starting to sort of see that move east, where some of the resources you see referenced there, are outside California, actually, the majority of the hybridization opportunity that we're engaged on now is outside California, where you can -- if you look under the surface of IRPs from utilities, they're starting to identify storage as a resource, they really need to procure in the system as renewables grows. And what we're finding is those utilities are prepared to think about contracting for those resources over a long-term basis that's compatible with yieldco.

這種結構正在產生​​的資產與 Yieldco 的投資使命和長期收入狀況非常兼容。我們開始看到這種趨勢向東移動，你看到的一些資源都在加利福尼亞州之外，實際上，我們現在從事的大部分雜交機會都在加利福尼亞州之外，在那裡你可以 - - 如果你深入了解公用事業公司 IRP 的表面，他們開始將存儲視為一種資源，隨著可再生能源的增長，他們確實需要在系統中進行採購。我們發現，這些公用事業公司已準備好考慮在與 Yieldco 兼容的長期基礎上簽訂這些資源的合同。

The last thing I'd add is that I think as you move eastward, we do expect that over the next 2, 3, 4 years, ISOs and RTOs will start to recognize the need for storage in their system. And as they do, that will likely lead to changes in how those markets are designed that may ultimately make attributes of batteries that today, you would expect we have to monetize on a merchant basis attributes that we can monetize on a contracted one.

我要補充的最後一件事是，我認為隨著東移，我們確實預計在接下來的 2、3、4 年裡，ISO 和 RTO 將開始認識到其係統中存儲的需求。正如他們所做的那樣，這可能會導致這些市場的設計方式發生變化，最終可能使電池的屬性成為當今的電池屬性，您可能會期望我們必須在商家基礎上貨幣化這些屬性，而我們可以在合同屬性上貨幣化。

That's really helpful. And Chris, just last question for you. (inaudible) catch up here if you want to hit your guidance. Was there a buffer in original guidance that gives you some hope that you'll be there through the balance of the year? Or some of the ever you can pull to make a catch up here on the lost CAFD in the quarter?

這真的很有幫助。克里斯，這是最後一個問題。 （聽不清）如果您想達到您的指導，請在這裡跟上。最初的指導中是否有一個緩衝，讓你對今年餘下的時間裡能保持這樣的希望有一些希望？或者您可以採取哪些措施來彌補本季度損失的 CAFD？

I think it's more just a waiting. I think for those of you who follow us for a long period of time, first quarter is always the weakest. It's slow from a renewable resource perspective. And so for us, this is obviously second and third quarter are critical to getting that, especially with the merchant. So it's not as though we necessarily need the "have a Herculean effort to catch up." I just think that we'll know a lot more kind of only sit in our second and third quarter as we get through those -- as the main CAFD generation period.

我覺得更多的只是等待。我想對於那些長期關注我們的人來說，第一季度總是最弱的。從可再生資源的角度來看，這是緩慢的。因此，對我們來說，第二和第三季度顯然對於實現這一目標至關重要，尤其是對商家而言。因此，我們並不一定需要“付出巨大的努力才能趕上”。我只是認為，只有在第二和第三季度，當我們經歷這些——作為 CAFD 的主要生成時期——時，我們才會知道更多的情況。

Our next question comes from Julien Dumoulin-Smith with Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Julien Dumoulin-Smith。

So I waned to follow up on the 600 megawatts of additional potential drop. Just talk about the $2.15 in DPS. Listen, you all have a pretty good line of sight on that number already prior to this incremental 600 megawatts. The 600 is being contemplated, I think, in the 2025 time frame if that's how I understood your commentary. How do you think about this adding latitude to the 2015, if not upside? Or do you think that the drop timing here, et cetera, just extend that growth rate and gives you the latitude to continue combating, I just want to make sure how we should think about that, especially in conjunction with the additional cash flow coming from the [modest] repowering as well.

因此，我想跟踪 600 兆瓦的額外潛在下降。只談談 2.15 美元的 DPS。聽著，在這個增量 600 兆瓦之前，你們都已經清楚地看到了這個數字。我認為 600 正在考慮在 2025 年的時間框架內，如果我是這麼理解你的評論的話。您如何看待這為 2015 年帶來的餘地（如果不是上漲的話）？或者你認為這裡的下降時機等等，只是延長了增長率並給你繼續戰鬥的自由度，我只是想確定我們應該如何考慮這一點，特別是與來自的額外現金流結合起來還有[適度的]重新供電。

Sure. Hopefully I understood your question correctly. I would say it's much more an extension of the $2.15. I think to kind of the point that would kind of come online in 2025, first year would be the first year of -- 2026, excuse me, would be first year of operations, so maybe not kind of run rate (inaudible) number. So I view it much more towards adding to the 2027 and beyond time frame, then really a big impact necessarily in '25 and '26 depending. But Julien, to be fair, there's a reason I said it's a little bit too early to tell. We have everything tied down, we'll go through it, but just to give you a directional I think about it that way.

當然。希望我正確理解你的問題。我想說這更像是 2.15 美元的延伸。我認為，就 2025 年上線的情況而言，第一年將是 2026 年的第一年，對不起，將是運營的第一年，所以可能不是運行率（聽不清）數字。因此，我認為它更多地傾向於增加到 2027 年及之後的時間範圍，然後在 25 年和 26 年確實會產生很大的影響，具體取決於。但朱利安，公平地說，我說現在說還為時過早，這是有原因的。我們已經把一切都綁好了，我們會經歷它，但只是為了給你一個方向，我是這樣想的。

Right. And how do you think about this fitting with the idea of no external equity needs here to fund that you can make some CAFD assumptions here on what that 600 megawatts could do, et cetera. How do you think about this creating some equity need out there? I mean, obviously, we're going to come back into that at some point.

正確的。你如何看待這與這裡不需要外部股權來資助的想法的契合度，你可以在這裡對 600 兆瓦的能力做出一些 CAFD 假設，等等。您如何看待這創造了一些股權需求？我的意思是，顯然，我們會在某個時候回到這個話題。

Yes. I mean it depends on size. I think to the point in 2023, once again, at our guidance, et cetera, we generate about $100 million of excess cash. And I think for us, Julien, it's really about flexibility. As I talked a little bit on the call and over the past quarters, we did upsize our revolvers. We have a lot of flexibility to determine if and when we need to issue equity. But once again, there's a reason I didn't bring up the actual capital because it's little bit too early, so I don't want to speculate. But the point I would like to make is we have a lot of capital flexibility with, a, internal cash flow generation; b, just high cash balances from the thermal sale, C, an undrawn revolver for LC postings.

是的。我的意思是這取決於大小。我認為到 2023 年，根據我們的指導等，我們將再次產生約 1 億美元的超額現金。 Julien，我認為對我們來說，這實際上與靈活性有關。正如我在電話會議上和過去幾個季度中談到的那樣，我們確實加大了左輪手槍的尺寸。我們可以非常靈活地決定是否以及何時需要發行股權。但我再一次沒有提出實際資本是有原因的，因為現在有點太早了，所以我不想猜測。但我想說的一點是，我們有很大的資本靈活性，a，內部現金流的產生； b，來自熱銷的高額現金餘額，C，用於信用證過帳的未提取的左輪手槍。

Got it. Excellent. And then remind us, especially in regarding '27, '28 time frame here. I mean your California portfolio, I mean RA prices continue to move sharply higher here and we can mine. I mean when does that reopen up again here in terms open exposure? I just want to think about the payout ratio allowed your continued organic improvement in the portfolio as well as we talked about to '27 and '28 here with the new drops.

知道了。出色的。然後提醒我們，特別是關於“27”、“28”的時間範圍。我的意思是你的加州投資組合，我的意思是 RA 價格在這裡繼續大幅上漲，我們可以開採。我的意思是，就公開曝光而言，什麼時候會再次重新開放？我只想考慮派息率讓您的投資組合持續有機改進，以及我們在 27 和 28 年談論的新下降。

So they're basically on a capacity basis, all 3 of the assets are open in 2027. There's different bidding rules that allow what you can bid in or not. So we may not -- yes, once again, I'm not going to grin on our bidding strategy on a public call, but we may bid in some bit in others. But to answer your question, the RA capacity for all 3 is open in 2017.

所以它們基本上是基於容量的，所有 3 個資產都將在 2027 年開放。有不同的投標規則，允許您投標或不投標。所以我們可能不會——是的，再一次，我不會在公開電話會議上對我們的投標策略微笑，但我們可能會在其他方面參與一些投標。但為了回答你的問題，這 3 個項目的 RA 容量均於 2017 年開放。

And you would agree with the assessment that there is further latitude relative to where you're hedged today. I imagine wherever you had, say, a few months ago, it's not where the current forward marks are?

您會同意這樣的評估：相對於您今天對沖的地方，還有更大的自由度。我想無論你在哪裡，比如說，幾個月前，它都不是當前前進標記所在的地方？

Yes. I would say forward marks are higher than we hedge that as a generalization. However, I also don't want to get too far ahead. You are talking about a period that's -- if we've been on a 3-year basis, for example, a 3-year strip between '27 and '30, so kind of today's or 2024 is RA price, maybe a little bit strong from how you look at it for a longer date basis. But to your question, Julien, RA prices in general are higher than where we had hedged previously.

是的。我想說遠期分數比我們對沖的一般水平要高。然而，我也不想走得太遠。你談論的是一個時期，如果我們以 3 年為基礎，例如，27 年到 30 年之間的 3 年期限，那麼今天或 2024 年就是 RA 價格，也許有一點從你如何看待它的長期基礎來看，它很強大。但對於你的問題，Julien，RA 價格總體上高於我們之前對沖的價格。

Our next question comes from William Grippin with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的威廉·格里平。

Can you hear me okay?

你能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes. All good, Will.

是的。一切都好，威爾。

Awesome. Yes, just maybe getting at Julien's question a little bit differently here. You talked about being at the high end of the 5% to 8% growth range without the need to issue new equity. How are you thinking about possibly growing faster or upping that range just given your ability to leverage a more traditional funding mix for incremental deals from here?

驚人的。是的，只是這裡對朱利安問題的理解可能有點不同。您談到無需發行新股即可達到 5% 至 8% 增長范圍的高端。鑑於您有能力利用更傳統的融資組合來進行增量交易，您如何考慮可能更快地增長或提高這一範圍？

Right. For us, we typically don't look to increase the range. I would always much rather grow the period of time with which we can kind of give the investors visibility into that growth. So if the question is, would we move the 5% to 8%, let's say, to 9% as an example, that answer in general is a no. What I much rather do is, let's say, in November, be able to demonstrate to investors growth through 2027 or beyond. So we're always much more focused on extending the runway at that growth rate. then increasing the growth rate in 1 or 2 years just to get a little bit ahead.

正確的。對於我們來說，我們通常不希望增加範圍。我總是更願意延長一段時間，讓投資者能夠看到這種增長。因此，如果問題是，我們是否會將 5% 移至 8%（例如移至 9%），那麼答案通常是否定的。我更願意做的是，比方說，在 11 月份，能夠向投資者展示 2027 年或更長時間的增長。因此，我們總是更加專注於以這樣的增長率擴展跑道。然後在一兩年內提高增長率，只是為了領先一點。

That concludes today's question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the call back to Chris Sotos for closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。我想將電話轉回給克里斯·索托斯（Chris Sotos），讓其致閉幕詞。

Thank you, everyone, for attending today. As I understand it's a very busy day in terms of reports coming out. So I appreciate everyone's time and look forward to talking to you in August. Thank you.

謝謝大家今天出席。據我了解，就報告的發布而言，今天是非常忙碌的一天。感謝大家抽出寶貴的時間，並期待在八月與您交談。謝謝。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。