Cresud SACIF y A (CRESY) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Everyone, I'm Santiago Donato, Investor Relations Officer of Cresud, and I welcome you to the first quarter of fiscal year 2024 results conference call. First of all, I would like to remind you that both audio and slide show may be accessed through company's Investor Relations website at www.cresud.com.ar by clicking on the banner webcast link. The following presentation and the earnings release are also available for download on the company website. After management remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session for analysts and investors. (Operator Instructions).

大家好，我是 Cresud 投資者關係官 Santiago Donato，歡迎大家參加 2024 財年第一季業績電話會議。首先，我想提醒您，音訊和幻燈片都可以透過公司投資者關係網站 www.cresud.com.ar 透過點擊橫幅網路廣播連結來存取。以下簡報和收益報告也可以在公司網站上下載。管理層發表演說後，將為分析師和投資人舉行問答環節。 （操作員說明）。

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that this call is being recorded and that information discussed today may include forward-looking statements regarding the company's financial and operating performance. All projections are subject to risks and uncertainties, and actual results may differ materially. Please refer to the detailed note in the company's earnings release regarding forward-looking statements.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，本次電話會議正在錄音，今天討論的資訊可能包括有關公司財務和經營業績的前瞻性陳述。所有預測都存在風險和不確定性，實際結果可能存在重大差異。請參閱公司收益報告中有關前瞻性陳述的詳細說明。

I will now turn the call over to Mr. Alejandro Elsztain, CEO. Please go ahead, sir.

我現在將把電話轉給執行長 Alejandro Elsztain 先生。請繼續，先生。

Good morning, everyone. We are beginning our first quarter 2024. And some good news coming in an increase of hectares for the plantation for grains mainly. And the country that this year is growing is Brazil in between the combination of developing land and increasing the acres that are they're leasing.

大家，早安。 2024 年第一季即將開始。一些好消息傳來，主要是穀物種植園面積增加。今年成長最快的國家是巴西，它介於開發土地和增加租賃面積之間。

We have this year much better conditions related to climate in Argentina. At the beginning, the rain didn't come. But in October, we began to see the recovery on the -- on our farms. So this is not affecting so good in the winter crops, but yes, we're optimistic related to the summer crops that are being planted now.

今年阿根廷的氣候條件要好得多。剛開始的時候，雨並沒有下。但到了十月，我們開始看到我們農場的復甦。因此，這並沒有對冬季作物產生太大影響，但是，是的，我們對現在正在種植的夏季作物持樂觀態度。

Related to BrasilAgro, BrasilAgro began its sowing progress normally in Mato Grosso, 35% of the soybean have been planted. And the rest is under good conditions, but some doubts related to the Nino affecting Mapitoba.

與BrasilAgro相關的是，BrasilAgro在馬托格羅索州開始正常播種，大豆已播種35%。其餘情況良好，但有些疑慮與影響馬皮托巴的尼諾現像有關。

We had one sale done after the closing of this balance sheet, after 30th of September, we sold a portion of our Los Pozos, remembering that it's a huge farm. We sold 4,200 hectares. I will explain a little later details on that transaction and will be reflected in the second quarter.

我們在資產負債表結束後完成了一次出售，9 月 30 日之後，我們出售了洛斯波索斯的一部分，記住這是一個巨大的農場。我們出售了 4,200 公頃土地。我稍後將解釋該交易的一些細節，並將在第二季度反映出來。

Related to dividends, this year Cresud received important dividends from subsidiaries, IRSA and BrasilAgro, mainly. And with those, there is a big recovery in the cash flow of the company and in the debt of the company, so Matias will later -- will explain. And at the same time, we are distributing good dividends to shareholders that they were approved in the 10 of May of this year -- on the 5 of October, sorry, and it's going to be distributed. Matias is going to explain some details about the problems on the distribution to the ADRs.

與股利相關，今年Cresud主要從子公司IRSA和BrasilAgro獲得重要股利。有了這些，公司的現金流和公司的債務就會大幅恢復，馬蒂亞斯稍後將解釋這一點。與此同時，我們正在向股東分配良好的股息，他們在今年 5 月 10 日獲得批准——抱歉，10 月 5 日將進行分配。 Matias 將解釋有關 ADR 分配問題的一些細節。

So saying that, I will now introduce Mr. Diego Chillado to explain about the soybean and core markets.

那下面我就介紹一下Diego Chillado先生來講解一下大豆和核心市場。

Thanks, Alejandro. Good morning, everybody. On the Slide #3, we can see the evolution of commodity prices after the peak reached after the pandemic and boosted by Russia and Ukraine war, soybean and corn, international prices have an experienced correction as well as input cost too, but still in the high levels. Soybean and corn's [total] prices decreased approximately 6% since July 2023. And compared to the last year, corn is down 30% while saving just only 1%.

謝謝，亞歷杭德羅。大家早安。在第三張投影片中，我們可以看到大宗商品價格在疫情後達到高峰後的演變，受俄羅斯和烏克蘭戰爭的推動，大豆和玉米，國際價格也經歷了調整，投入成本也有所調整，但仍處於高水準。自 2023 年 7 月以來，大豆和玉米的[總]價格下降了約 6%。與去年相比，玉米下降了 30%，而僅節省了 1%。

Following -- in the next slide that shows the expected planted area in the region. We expect to plan 2,000 -- 290,000 hectares in the 4 countries -- sorry, where we operate; Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia and Paraguay, increasing the size slightly, 2.2%, compared to the previous campaign. Regarding our crop breakdown, we have a crop mix, but we produce mainly soybean and corn that's account for approximately 75% of our planted surface.

接下來 - 下一張投影片顯示了該地區的預期種植面積。我們預計在 4 個國家規劃 2,000 至 290,000 公頃土地——抱歉，是我們運營的地方；阿根廷、巴西、玻利維亞和巴拉圭的規模比上一季小幅增加2.2%。關於我們的作物分類，我們有多種作物組合，但我們主要生產大豆和玉米，約占我們種植面積的 75%。

Next, on this slide, we can see the climate conditions for the region, and they're showing progress. Regional weather conditions are better than the previous campaign, mainly in Argentina, where the last year was impacted by one of the historical worst drought. If you remember, the expectations are for regular or good campaign despite the lack of rain that impacted partially on the winter crop production at the beginning of the campaign.

接下來，在這張投影片上，我們可以看到該地區的氣候條件，並且正在取得進展。區域天氣條件好於上一季，主要是阿根廷，去年該國遭受了歷史上最嚴重乾旱之一的影響。如果你還記得的話，儘管在季節開始時缺乏降雨，部分影響了冬季作物的產量，但人們仍期望季節正常或良好。

BrasilAgro started the campaign with a good sowing progress in Mato Grosso and some Nino impact in Mapitoba. Regarding sow progress in Argentina, 100% of the wheat was planted. And regarding soybean and corn, the regional progress is 18% and 8%, respectively, of course.

BrasilAgro 在馬托格羅索州的播種進展良好，在馬皮托巴省也受到了尼諾現象的影響。關於阿根廷的播種進度，小麥已播種 100%。當然，大豆和玉米的區域進步分別為 18% 和 8%。

I hand over to Alejandro, who will continue the presentation.

我將任務交給亞歷杭德羅，他將繼續演講。

We can show here in the map the size of Los Pozos farm that is really huge. Here we see the developed part and the portion that now we are selling it is the square -- red square. And here, we see 4,200 hectares of undeveloped land with potential to be productive, one buyer came and bought it in a price for $2.3 million, who already paid close to $1 million -- $0.9 million he paid, hard dollars. The rest will be collected in 2 years.

我們可以在地圖上顯示洛斯波索斯農場的規模，它確實很大。在這裡我們看到了已開發的部分，現在我們正在銷售的部分是正方形——紅色正方形。在這裡，我們看到4,200 公頃未開發的土地具有生產潛力，一位買家以230 萬美元的價格購買了這片土地，他已經支付了近100 萬美元——他支付了90 萬美元，硬通貨。其餘的將在2年內收集。

The sale price divided the acres is $540, hard dollars. When we acquired this land and developed in 1995, we paid for that $10 and the CapEx included in the last 20 years of that region that is undeveloped -- almost undeveloped, it was $25 in average of the 4,000 hectares, representing that the same we are doing, it is 14x the investment on the lines. That will be in an accounting gain of ARS 700 million because of the value of the dollar. And we have the remaining surface of this farm of 235,000 hectares.

每英畝的銷售價格為 540 美元，硬通貨。當我們在1995 年收購這塊土地並進行開發時，我們支付了10 美元，資本支出包括在該地區過去20 年中未開發的——幾乎未開發的區域，這4,000 公頃的土地平均為25 美元，這意味著我們正在做的，是14倍的投資就行了。由於美元的價值，這將帶來 7 億阿根廷比索的會計收益。這個農場的剩餘面積為 235,000 公頃。

So the demand is intending to expand. It's not only buying this, want to buy more. So we, after many years of not selling portions of Los Pozos, we like very much to have neighborhood develop. That was the reason we sold a small portion for the farm.

因此需求正在擴大。不只是買這個，還想買更多。因此，在多年不出售洛斯波索斯的部分區域之後，我們非常希望進行社區開發。這就是我們為農場出售一小部分的原因。

If we move to the next page and then we brought this presentation because FyO closed the balance sheet in 30th September, this company made the 1st of October (inaudible) of September balance sheet. And the company finished a very good year. And here, we see the evolution of FyO in 2 main metrics. One is the traded tons evolution. So this year, we closed the year with 5.5 million tons. So a small growth compared to the 6.6 million of last year. But we have to remember that Argentina almost lost half of the crop. So they represented close to 8% market share for the 3 main products that there are, soybean, corn and wheat.

如果我們翻到下一頁，然後我們帶來這個演示文稿，因為 FyO 於 9 月 30 日關閉了資產負債表，該公司在 10 月 1 日（聽不清楚）製作了 9 月的資產負債表。這家公司度過了非常好的一年。在這裡，我們看到 FyO 在 2 個主要指標上的演變。一是交易噸數的演變。所以今年我們的年產量是 550 萬噸。與去年的 660 萬相比，增幅較小。但我們必須記住，阿根廷幾乎損失了一半的收成。因此，它們佔大豆、玉米和小麥這三種主要產品的近 8% 的市場份額。

So this company that was averaging 3%, 4%, 5% of the market share of those 3 products, this year made a 8% or more than 8% market share and made and we've seen the evolution of the EBITDA, here, a company that in the past was not making money, these last 2 years was making an EBT of $28 million to $25 million. So this company that Cresud owns 50% is really growing fast and expanding not only to Argentina in inputs and outputs, but to the region, going to Brazil, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay and Chile.

因此，這家公司的這 3 種產品的市佔率平均為 3%、4%、5%，今年卻達到了 8% 或超過 8% 的市場份額，我們在這裡看到了 EBITDA 的演變。一家過去不賺錢的公司，最近兩年的息稅前利潤為2,800 萬至2,500 萬美元。因此，克雷蘇德擁有 50% 股份的這家公司確實在快速成長，不僅在投入和產出方面擴展到阿根廷，而且擴展到該地區，進入巴西、玻利維亞、巴拉圭、烏拉圭和智利。

So this company, a service company for farmers is really expanding a lot. So it's a part of the business of real estate that Cresud begun in the beginning related to the operational planting the 300,000 hectares of planted area. This is the third evolution servicing farmers for the future.

所以這家為農民服務的公司確實在擴大規模。因此，克雷蘇德一開始就開始了房地產業務的一部分，涉及30萬公頃種植面積的營運種植。這是為未來農民服務的第三次變革。

Saying that, I will now -- will give the words to Matias to talk about IRSA investments.

話雖如此，我現在將向馬蒂亞斯發言，談論 IRSA 的投資。

Thank you, Alejandro. Good morning, everybody. So if we turn to Page 8, we can see our investment in IRSA. After the dividend that we paid, our stake in IRSA today is 54.1% or 54.2%. IRSA had very good results during the quarter. We saw a strong financial and operational performance. In most of the segments, shopping malls have been growing and increased occupancy. The hotels today are performing very well. The most (inaudible) today is Llao Llao in Patagonia, but the 2 hotels in Buenos Aires are performing very well.

謝謝你，亞歷杭德羅。大家早安。因此，如果我們翻到第 8 頁，我們可以看到我們對 IRSA 的投資。支付股息後，我們今天在 IRSA 的持股比例為 54.1% 或 54.2%。 IRSA 在本季取得了非常好的業績。我們看到了強勁的財務和營運表現。在大多數細分市場中，購物中心一直在成長，入住率也不斷增加。今天的酒店表現非常好。今天最多（聽不清楚）的是巴塔哥尼亞的 Llao Llao，但布宜諾斯艾利斯的 2 家酒店表現非常好。

The offices, we saw a slight recovery in occupancy. And also IRSA was very active selling assets during the quarter. We sold 3 floors in the Della Polera building, an entire building, the Suipacha building, the stake in Quality that was the owner of a big plot of land in the San Martin area in the province of Buenos Aires.

辦公室的入住率略有回升。 IRSA 在本季也非常積極地出售資產。我們出售了 Della Polera 大樓的 3 層樓、整棟大樓、Suipacha 大樓以及 Quality 的股份，該公司是布宜諾斯艾利斯省聖馬丁地區一大塊土地的所有者。

Also, IRSA dividends during the quarter, representing a dividend yield of 12% that Cresud collected, part of that. If we see the evolution of the rental EBITDA over the last years in dollar terms, you can notice the last 12 months that we are surpassing by 34%, a pre-pandemic level. reaching $176 million. That is almost our record in the past 3 years.

此外，IRSA 在本季派發股息，Cresud 收取的股息率為 12%，這是其中的一部分。如果我們以美元計算過去幾年租金 EBITDA 的變化，您會發現過去 12 個月我們超出了 34%，即大流行前的水平。達到1.76億美元。這幾乎是我們過去三年的記錄。

So going through the results of Cresud. On Page 10, we can see what happened with the main 2 drivers on the macroeconomic side, what happened with inflation and devaluation. In real terms, the official exchange rate devaluated by 1% compared with an appreciation last year of 4%. Regarding the dollar MEP, the dollar MEP also increased by 64% this year, in real terms, 21%. That will have an impact in the valuation of investment properties of IRSA basically the offices and the land bank, we are using the dollar MEP to convert into pesos, and that generated a very important gain that we will see later.

所以要檢查克雷蘇德的結果。在第 10 頁，我們可以看到宏觀經濟方面的兩個主要驅動因素發生了什麼，即通貨膨脹和貶值發生了什麼。以實際價值計算，官方匯率比去年升值 4% 貶值了 1%。至於美元MEP，今年美元MEP也成長了64%，實質成長了21%。這將對 IRSA 的投資物業（主要是辦公室和土地儲備）的估值產生影響，我們正在使用美元 MEP 兌換成比索，這產生了非常重要的收益，我們稍後會看到。

So on Page 11, on the operating results of Cresud during the quarter. Remember that the first quarter because of the seasonality is not the most relevant quarter of the year. So basically, we have the remaining corn campaign and the sowing process of the wheat and some sugarcane, but the rest of the grains are still early to see results.

第 11 頁介紹了 Cresud 本季的經營業績。請記住，由於季節性原因，第一季並不是一年中最相關的季度。所以基本上，我們還有剩餘的玉米季節以及小麥和一些甘蔗的播種過程，但其餘的穀物仍處於早期階段才能看到結果。

If we compare year-over-year, we can see a drop in the FyO results. This is related only to the seasonality. Last year, there was the special effects for farmers and the activity in that quarter was very relevant. This year is not happening. So the drop is mainly attributable to that.

如果我們逐年比較，我們可以看到 FyO 結果下降。這僅與季節性有關。去年，對農民產生了特殊影響，該季度的活動非常相關。今年沒有發生。因此，下降主要歸因於這一點。

Then in the farming activity, we see a better result, but still a loss that -- we have losses in the grain segment that is more related to the impact of the inflation, nothing relevant to say at this stage. In sugarcane, we see a drop as well because it's more related to the Brazil activity where the prices are lower and there was an increase in costs. So the margin is lower, and this is the reason of the drop.

然後在農業活動中，我們看到了更好的結果，但仍然存在損失——我們在糧食領域的損失與通貨膨脹的影響更相關，現階段沒有什麼可說的。在甘蔗方面，我們也看到了下降，因為這與巴西的活動更相關，那裡的價格較低且成本增加。所以利潤率較低，這就是下降的原因。

The cattle activity in a slight loss, but it's just related to the inflation, prices increased lower than inflation. So our gross margin is positive, but when we apply the impact of inflation, turned to negative.

牛的活動略有損失，但這只是與通膨有關，價格漲幅低於通膨。所以我們的毛利率是正的，但是當我們應用通貨膨脹的影響時，就變成了負。

So on a consolidated basis, leaving aside the impact of the fair value of the investment property that is basically IRSA, we see a gain or an increase by 10% on our results. The fair value of the investment properties itself -- we posted a very important gain, a ARS 100 million gain that is related to what I said, the revaluation or the impact of the increase in the dollar MEP. If we measure the properties in dollars, there is no major changes. It's stable. So it's just -- this is a noncash effect related to the devaluation.

因此，在綜合基礎上，撇開投資性房地產（基本上是 IRSA）公允價值的影響，我們看到我們的業績成長了 10%。投資物業本身的公允價值－我們發布了非常重要的收益，1億阿根廷比索的收益，這與我所說的重估或美元MEP增加的影響有關。如果我們以美元來衡量房產，則沒有重大變化。它很穩定。所以這只是——這是與貶值相關的非現金效應。

When we analyze the results on the net financial results. Here, we have the other important effect that is in the table in the first row, you have the net FX result, where you have a positive result last year, a negative result this year. This is related to other dollar-denominated debts. So the devaluation has a negative impact on last year, we have an appreciation that generated gains.

當我們分析淨財務結果時。在這裡，我們在第一行的表格中看到了另一個重要的影響，即淨外匯結果，去年的結果為正，今年的結果為負。這與其他以美元計價的債務有關。因此，貶值對去年有負面影響，升值卻帶來了收益。

If you see the net interest line, there is an important decrease. We are basically having half of the interest that we have last year. This is some related -- or most related to the decrease in the leverage on both IRSA and Cresud and partially some accounting effects that when you have pesos interest against the devaluation that was the interest payments were lower, we are posting a gain in that line.

如果您看到淨利息線，則表示有重要的下降。我們的興趣基本上是去年的一半。這與IRSA 和Cresud 的槓桿率下降有關，或者與IRSA 和Cresud 的槓桿率下降有關，部分與一些會計影響有關，即當你有比索利息來對抗貶值時，即利息支付較低，我們會在該行發布收益。

Well, with all those effects, we finished the first quarter of the fiscal year with a gain of ARS 78.9 billion attributable to our shareholders ARS 40.8 billion compared with ARS 8.2 billion last year.

好吧，考慮到所有這些影響，我們在本財年第一季結束時，股東應得利潤為 789 億ARS，歸屬於股東的收益為 408 億ARS，而去年為 82 億ARS。

About our debt. We can see a decrease in our net debt from -- in fiscal year '21 from $421 million to $352 million at the end of the quarter. Basically, we are applying the proceeds of the dividends to cancel debt. So that is the reason of the drop. And regarding the debt amortization schedule, we have the distribution of the amortization over the next year. So there is no pressure on our capital structure.

關於我們的債務。我們可以看到我們的淨債務從 21 財年的 4.21 億美元減少到本季末的 3.52 億美元。基本上，我們正​​在利用股息收益來取消債務。所以這就是下跌的原因。關於債務攤銷時間表，我們有明年的攤銷分配。所以我們的資本結構沒有壓力。

About our own dividend distribution, our shareholders' meeting on October 5 decided to distribute a dividend of ARS 22 billion in cash and 3% of the shares of IRSA. So combining the 2 is a dividend yield of 8.3%. Also, we decided to distribute the treasury shares. So we still did 1% of our own stock that was paid in Argentina on October 12.

關於我們自己的股利分配，我們10月5日的股東大會決定以現金分配220億阿根廷比索的股利以及IRSA 3%的股份。因此，將兩者結合起來，股息殖利率為 8.3%。此外，我們也決定分配庫存股。所以我們還是做了10月12日在阿根廷支付的我們自己股票的1%。

And unfortunately, regarding our GDS holders, there was a new rule of the CMB, the local SEC, that basically limit the availability of Bank of New York to distribute or to convert the pesos into dollars to distribute the dividends to the GDS holders. So we are working with them, trying to find a solution for this. What the company decides in the meantime was not to wire the money to Bank of New York. So we maintain the money, and we invested that money in a money market fund from Banco Santander.

不幸的是，對於我們的GDS 持有者，CMB（當地SEC）制定了一項新規則，該規則基本上限制了紐約銀行向GDS 持有者分配或將比索兌換成美元以分配股息的可能性。因此，我們正在與他們合作，試圖找到解決方案。同時，公司決定不將錢匯給紐約銀行。因此，我們保留了這筆錢，並將這筆錢投資於桑坦德銀行的貨幣市場基金。

The idea was to try to mitigate the impact of inflation until we find a way to distribute the dividends in dollars. So the decision not to transfer the money to Bank of New York was with only this intention because if we wire the money Bank of New York will leave the funds without any kind of investments. And if there is an alternative in the future that we can solve this issue, if they have the money, will be impossible to implement. For that reason, we decided to preserve the funds from our shareholders.

我們的想法是試圖減輕通貨膨脹的影響，直到我們找到以美元分配股息的方法。因此，決定不將資金轉移到紐約銀行只是出於這個目的，因為如果我們將資金電匯給紐約銀行，這些資金將不再有任何形式的投資。如果將來有替代方案可以解決這個問題，如果他們有錢，將不可能實施。因此，我們決定保留股東的資金。

Finally, about our repurchase program, we decided to extend another 180 days, the time frame to execute the plan. We already acquired 78% of the shares. So there is still some room to keep buying back shares that we plan to do it in the coming months.

最後，關於我們的回購計劃，我們決定再延長180天，即執行該計劃的期限。我們已經收購了78%的股份。因此，我們計劃在未來幾個月內繼續回購股票，仍有一些空間。

So with this, we finished the formal presentation. Now we open the line to receive your questions.

至此，我們就完成了正式的演示。現在我們開通熱線接受您的提問。

Now it's time for the Q&A session. (Operator Instructions). We will take the questions in the order we receive them.

現在是問答環節。 （操作員說明）。我們將按照收到問題的順序回答問題。

First question is, are you seeing opportunities to buy land in Argentina or in the region? And do you expect to sell more farms in the region -- in Argentina and the region?

第一個問題是，您是否看到在阿根廷或該地區購買土地的機會？您是否預計在該地區（阿根廷和該地區）出售更多農場？

Yes, the first quarter didn't reflect any sale and any purchase. The second quarter is reflecting the first that is the Los Pozos. And there is another transaction in Argentina that is under the way. So probably, we are now seeing a second sale in Argentina.

是的，第一季沒有反映出任何銷售和購買。第二季度反映了第一個季度，即洛斯波索斯。阿根廷還有另一筆交易正在進行中。因此，我們現在可能會在阿根廷看到第二次銷售。

In Brazil, a lot of transactions under discussion, liquidity is strong in that country. So the last year, Brazil had a very active real estate year related to sales. And we keep that expectation for this year that the liquidity in Brazil is still very active. So we think that the 2 countries and maybe Paraguay is receiving some interest too. So yes, related to sales, we expect the next quarters to reflect much more activity.

在巴西，許多交易正在討論中，該國的流動性很強。因此，去年巴西的房地產銷售非常活躍。我們對今年仍保持這樣的預期：巴西的流動性仍然非常活躍。因此，我們認為這兩個國家，或許還有巴拉圭也受到了一些興趣。因此，是的，與銷售相關，我們預計接下來的幾季將反映出更多的活動。

Related to purchase, in Argentina, we are searching for some opportunities for sure. Land in Argentina is really cheap today. And in the rest, we are more active in leasing than in purchasing because of the prices went up, but some cases begin to appear in Brazil, some opportunities because of some companies went to debt strongly in Brazil and cost of debt went up a lot. And so we are seeing some financial prices in some companies in Brazil that could be transformed to opportunities to purchase land. So yes, we think the year will be very active related to real estate.

關於採購，在阿根廷，我們肯定正在尋找一些機會。如今阿根廷的土地非常便宜。其餘方面，由於價格上漲，我們租賃比購買更積極，但巴西開始出現一些情況，一些機會是因為一些公司在巴西大量負債，債務成本上升了很多。因此，我們看到巴西一些公司的一些財務價格可能會轉化為購買土地的機會。所以，是的，我們認為今年與房地產相關的活動將非常活躍。

Thank you, Alejandro. Next question. You have mentioned about the problem to distribute cash dividends and shares to ADR holders, how long could it take in your opinion? Also, if unsuccessful, what might be the plan-B that investors could await?

謝謝你，亞歷杭德羅。下一個問題。您提到了向ADR持有人分配現金股利和股票的問題，您認為需要多長時間？另外，如果不成功，投資人可以等待的B計畫是什麼？

And there is another question. Also, it is important to control IRSA for the company in terms of capital and vote right, about 50%.

還有一個問題。另外，在資本和投票權方面對公司控制IRSA也很重要，大約50%。

So regarding the first part of the question about the dividend. Unfortunately, we don't have a clear time frame because we depend on government regulations. We are working with them and trying to explain the issue. There is a new rule that basically limits the availability of foreigners to go to the blue-chip swap market and convert pesos into dollars. So we are trying to have an umbrella for the ADRs differently, but it's something that we don't control at all.

關於股息問題的第一部分。不幸的是，我們沒有明確的時間框架，因為我們依賴政府法規。我們正在與他們合作並試圖解釋這個問題。有一項新規則基本上限制了外國人進入藍籌互換市場並將比索兌換成美元的可能性。因此，我們試圖以不同的方式為 ADR 提供保護傘，但這是我們根本無法控制的。

If we analyze in the past years in Argentina with capital controls, this is the first time that this kind of limitations are in place. So my personal opinion is that going forward with a new administration, there will be some methodology to convert pesos into dollars. We are not talking about using the official exchange rate. So this will be the blue chip swap or financial exchange rate. But I can't commit any kind of time frame or estimation because depend 100% on regulation from the government.

如果我們分析阿根廷過去幾年的資本管制，這是第一次出現這種限制。所以我個人的觀點是，隨著新政府的到來，將會有一些方法將比索兌換成美元。我們不是在談論使用官方匯率。所以這將是藍籌互換或金融匯率。但我無法承諾任何時間框架或估計，因為 100% 取決於政府的監管。

So what we decided was to -- try to mitigate the impact of the inflation. The dividend is set in pesos, so we don't have any kind of way to hedge against dollars, but at least to try to preserve the pesos is something that we decided, and the funds will be in the money market funds until we find a solution for this.

所以我們決定——努力減輕通貨膨脹的影響。股息以比索為單位，因此我們沒有任何方法來對沖美元，但至少我們決定嘗試保留比索，並且資金將存在於貨幣市場基金中，直到我們發現一個解決方案。

Second question, it's important to control IRSA for the company in terms of votes and capital rights about 50%.

第二個問題，控制IRSA對公司的投票權和資本權約50%很重要。

No, there is no need, you really having 30%, 40%, 50% of the company, you can keep the decision and the funds for Cresud are available. So we -- there is not that limited. We were increasing our stake in the recent years because of the price of the share of IRSA was really low. So that was -- there is not that limitation at all.

不，沒必要，你確實擁有公司30%、40%、50%的股份，你可以保留決定，Cresud的資金也可用。所以我們——沒有那麼有限。近年來我們一直在增持股份，因為 IRSA 的股價非常低。所以說——根本不存在這種限制。

And we distributed the shares in order to [give] what we increase from the market and we give the shares to our shareholders.

我們分配股票是為了[給予]我們從市場上增加的東西，並將股票給予我們的股東。

Yes, we bought this year 3% and we distribute the 3% from the market to the shareholders.

是的，我們今年買了3%，然後我們把這3%從市場上分配給股東。

And there is another question regarding the debt. What would be a comfortable level of debt that you're aiming for Cresud?

還有一個關於債務的問題。您為 Cresud 設定的舒適債務水準是多少？

I believe that the current situation is comfortable, if we measure against the assets that the company control is very conservative. Our LTV is very, very conservative. So I think the current levels are something that we feel comfortable. We used to have a little more. We used to have around 15% more. And we believe that, that level is also comfortable for a company.

我認為，如果我們以公司控制的非常保守的資產來衡量，目前的情況是舒適的。我們的生命週期價值非常非常保守。所以我認為目前的水平是我們感到舒服的。我們以前多了一點。我們過去多了大約 15%。我們相信，這個水準對公司來說也是合適的。

Thank you. We give some minutes more for any additional questions that you may have. (Operator Instructions).

謝謝。如果您有任何其他問題，我們會再給您幾分鐘的時間。 （操作員說明）。

If there are no more questions, we conclude the presentation and the Q&A. Thank you very much for participating. I will turn back to Alejandro Elsztain for his closing remarks.

如果沒有其他問題，我們的演示和問答就結束了。非常感謝您的參與。我將請亞歷杭德羅·埃爾斯坦 (Alejandro Elsztain) 致閉幕詞。

We are beginning the year, the first quarter is the beginning of a big plantation for the year with good conditions in Argentina, relatable in the rest. And we are optimistic the year that we are facing now. Prices are not so high, but margins are still attractive to farmers. And in our scale, in our regionality, that works in general. And last year was a good example where one effect came to one region. The diversification worked very much.

我們正在開始新的一年，第一季是今年大種植園的開始，阿根廷的條件良好，其他地區也是如此。我們對現在面臨的一年感到樂觀。價格不是那麼高，但利潤對農民來說仍然有吸引力。就我們的規模和區域而言，這總體上是有效的。去年就是一個很好的例子，一種效應影響到一個地區。多元化非常有效。

The real estate, I spoke a lot about the next 3 quarters that we are optimistic on that and the servicing too. So -- and for the other side, our investment in IRSA is showing a strong -- very strong recovery, occupancy at very high levels. So the company is now very strong on these [real tides] of the world. So we are less debt -- much more or less in debt comparing to the past, so a much stronger situation. And in a few weeks, we are going to see another government running the macro economy of this country.

房地產方面，我對未來三個季度的情況談了很多，我們對此和服務也持樂觀態度。因此，另一方面，我們對 IRSA 的投資顯示出強勁的、非常強勁的復甦，入住率處於非常高的水平。因此，該公司現在在世界的這些[真正的潮流]上非常強大。因此，我們的債務減少了——與過去相比，債務或多或少，因此情況更加強勁。幾週後，我們將看到另一個政府來管理這個國家的宏觀經濟。

So just to thank everybody -- everyone and to have a very good day for everyone. We see you next quarter. Bye.

所以我要感謝大家——大家，祝大家有美好的一天。我們下個季度見。再見。