Coherent Corp (COHR) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Coherent Corp. FY '23 Fourth Quarter Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised, today's conference is being recorded.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加相干公司 23 財年第四季財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Paul Silverstein. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給今天的發言者保羅·西爾弗斯坦 (Paul Silverstein)。請繼續。

Thank you, Kevin, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our fourth quarter fiscal 2023 earnings call. Today on the call, we have Chair and CEO, Dr. Chuck Mattera; Chief Financial Officer, Mary Jane Raymond; Chief Strategy Officer and President, Materials Segment, Dr. Giovanni Barbarossa; and Lasers Segment President, Dr. Mark Sobey.

謝謝你，凱文，大家早安。感謝您參加我們的 2023 財年第四季財報電話會議。今天參加電話會議的有主席兼執行長 Chuck Mattera 博士；財務長瑪麗·簡·雷蒙德；首席策略長兼材料部門總裁 Giovanni Barbarossa 博士；和雷射部門總裁 Mark Sobey 博士。

As a reminder, yesterday after the market closed, Coherent posted a shareholder letter along with an updated investor presentation. They can both be found in the Investor Relations section of our website.

提醒一下，昨天收盤後，相干公司發布了一封股東信以及最新的投資者介紹。它們都可以在我們網站的投資者關係部分找到。

Before I turn the call over to Chuck for his opening remarks, I want to call everyone's attention to our shareholder letter and accompanying change in format of this morning's call. The shareholder letter contains the traditional financial statements that were previously set forth in our earnings press releases, along with additional color around our operating performance, key trends and outlook. Given the additional disclosures in the letter, we plan to devote the bulk of this morning's call to answering questions from the financial community. We've undertaken this change with the goal of providing greater insight and clarity for our quarterly earnings release. We welcome your feedback.

在我將電話轉交給查克進行開場白之前，我想提請大家注意我們的股東信以及今天早上電話會議的格式變更。股東信函包含我們先前在收益新聞稿中闡述的傳統財務報表，以及有關我們的經營業績、主要趨勢和前景的其他資訊。鑑於信中披露的其他信息，我們計劃將今天上午的電話會議的大部分時間用於回答金融界的問題。我們進行這項改變的目的是為我們的季度收益發布提供更深入的見解和清晰度。我們歡迎您的回饋。

I also want to remind everyone on this call that we will refer to forward-looking statements, including all statements the company will make about its future financial and operating performance, growth strategy and market outlook, and that actual results may differ materially from those contemplated by these forward-looking statements. Risk factors that could cause actual results and trends to differ materially are set forth in the shareholder letter and the annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. Coherent assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements which speak only as of their respective dates.

我還想提醒參加本次電話會議的所有人，我們將參考前瞻性陳述，包括公司將做出的有關其未來財務和經營業績、成長策略和市場前景的所有陳述，並且實際結果可能與預期存在重大差異這些前瞻性陳述。股東信函以及向 SEC 提交的年度和季度報告中列出了可能導致實際結果和趨勢出現重大差異的風險因素。相干公司不承擔更新任何僅截至各自日期的前瞻性陳述的義務。

In addition, during this call, we may discuss both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP measures is included in the shareholder letter. Unless otherwise stated, all financial information referenced in this call will be non-GAAP. Our discussion will be limited to those non-GAAP financial measures that are reconciled in the shareholder letter. Today's conference call will be available for webcast replay in the Investor Relations section of our website for one year.

此外，在本次電話會議中，我們可能會討論公認會計原則和非公認會計原則財務指標。股東信函中包含了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 指標的調整表。除非另有說明，本次電話會議中引用的所有財務資訊均為非 GAAP 財務資訊。我們的討論將僅限於股東信函中核對的非公認會計準則財務指標。今天的電話會議將在我們網站的投資者關係部分進行網路直播重播，為期一年。

With that, it is my pleasure to turn the call over to Chuck. Chuck, please go ahead.

至此，我很高興將電話轉給查克。查克，請繼續。

Thank you, Paul. I hope those of you listening in have had the opportunity to read our new shareholder letter.

謝謝你，保羅。我希望各位聽眾有機會閱讀我們的新股東信。

In the fourth quarter, the Coherent team did a good job executing in the midst of a challenging macroeconomic environment. Our revenue of $1.205 billion was above the high end of our guidance, and non-GAAP EPS of $0.41 was toward the high end of our guidance. Operating cash flow was $182 million, which marked sequential and year-over-year improvement. We invested $93 million in capital equipment, and we retired $121 million of debt.

第四季度，相干團隊在充滿挑戰的宏觀經濟環境中表現出色。我們的收入為 12.05 億美元，高於我們指導的上限，非 GAAP 每股收益 0.41 美元接近我們指導的上限。營運現金流為 1.82 億美元，環比和年比都有所改善。我們投資了 9,300 萬美元的資本設備，還清了 1.21 億美元的債務。

When I look back on fiscal year '23, legacy Coherent contributed to our resilient business model. In addition, our track record following our acquisition of Finisar once again speaks to our ability to successfully effect strategic acquisitions, and thereby create shareholder value. Two major highlights in fiscal year '23 were related to our acquisition of Finisar. We demonstrated our unique scale while generating nearly 20% of our FY '23 revenues from just two customers, one in Communications and one in Electronics. These are good examples of the strength of our vertically integrated platforms which enable breakthrough solutions, and our differentiated ability to scale to meet sudden increases in market demand like those that we are now seeing in AI. And while we experienced a surge in orders in Q4 in Communications for AI, the macroeconomic uncertainty that affected some of the industrial and instrumentation businesses, a slower-than-forecasted recovery in China and a post-COVID deceleration in the Communications markets, drove the conservative fourth quarter order patterns for some of our customers' legacy products.

當我回顧 23 財年時，傳統的相干公司為我們的彈性業務模式做出了貢獻。此外，我們收購 Finisar 後的業績記錄再次證明我們有能力成功實施策略性收購，進而創造股東價值。 23 財年的兩大亮點與我們收購 Finisar 有關。我們展示了我們獨特的規模，同時我們 23 財年收入的近 20% 來自兩個客戶，一個是通訊客戶，一個是電子客戶。這些都是我們垂直整合平台實力的好例子，這些平台能夠實現突破性的解決方案，以及我們的差異化擴展能力，以滿足市場需求的突然增長，就像我們現在在人工智慧領域看到的那樣。儘管我們在第四季度經歷了人工智慧通訊訂單的激增，但宏觀經濟的不確定性影響了一些工業和儀器儀表業務，中國的復甦速度慢於預期，以及通訊市場在疫情後的減速，推動了人工智慧通訊市場的成長。

Recently, some of those customers have taken actions, including reducing orders of legacy products in the face of lower demand and reducing their inventory levels while slowing their planned investments in CapEx. This setup presents the ongoing challenge of managing through a retooling in fiscal '24, and so we got busy during Q4 to align our costs with market reality.

最近，其中一些客戶已採取行動，包括在需求下降的情況下減少傳統產品的訂單，並降低庫存水平，同時放慢資本支出的計劃投資。這種設置提出了透過 24 財年的重組進行管理的持續挑戰，因此我們在第四季度忙於使我們的成本與市場現實保持一致。

We view this temporary slowdown in demand as an opportunity to strengthen our foundations. We remain bullish about the future, because many of our largest customers are also resetting their strategies and accelerating their investments in new products that depend on our innovations and our ability to manufacture at scale. The largest opportunity in FY '24 that we are addressing is for 800G Datacom transceivers for planned artificial intelligence and machine learning buildouts. That demand should help offset the anticipated declines in demand from our traditional data center and hyperscale customers in data communications in fiscal '24. In addition, we continue our review of strategic alternatives for our silicon carbide business, another one of our major growth opportunities. Thanks to our strategy of diversification, we believe that we are well positioned to benefit from any improvement in the macroeconomic environment, though our outlook assumes that we will not see meaningful signs of recovery before the end of fiscal '24. So in short, we are prepared for a reset year, and we consider these challenges as a temporary interruption of otherwise powerful secular trends.

我們將需求的暫時放緩視為鞏固我們基礎的機會。我們仍然看好未來，因為我們的許多最大的客戶也在重新調整他們的策略，並加快對新產品的投資，這些新產品取決於我們的創新和大規模製造的能力。我們正在解決的 24 財年最大的機會是用於計劃的人工智慧和機器學習擴建的 800G 數據通訊收發器。這項需求應該有助於抵消我們傳統資料中心和超大規模客戶在 24 財年資料通訊方面的預期需求下降。此外，我們繼續審查碳化矽業務的策略替代方案，這是我們的另一個主要成長機會。由於我們的多元化策略，我們相信我們處於有利位置，可以從宏觀經濟環境的任何改善中受益，儘管我們的前景假設我們在 24 財年結束之前不會看到有意義的復甦跡象。簡而言之，我們已經為重新設定的一年做好了準備，我們認為這些挑戰是對原本強大的長期趨勢的暫時中斷。

Our guidance for the first quarter of fiscal '24 is revenue of approximately $1 billion to $1.1 billion and non-GAAP EPS of approximately $0.05 to $0.20 on 153 million shares. Regarding full year fiscal '24 guidance, revenue of approximately $4.5 billion to $4.7 billion and non-GAAP EPS of approximately $1 to $1.50 on 153 million shares.

我們對 24 財年第一季的指引是，1.53 億股的營收約為 10 億至 11 億美元，非 GAAP 每股盈餘約為 0.05 至 0.20 美元。關於 24 財年全年指導，1.53 億股的收入約為 45 億至 47 億美元，非 GAAP 每股收益約為 1 至 1.50 美元。

With that, I'll turn the call back over to Paul.

這樣，我會將電話轉回給保羅。

Kevin, if you could open it up for questions. Thank you.

凱文，如果你可以打開它提問。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Samik Chatterjee with JPMorgan.

（操作員指示）我們的第一個問題來自摩根大通的 Samik Chatterjee。

Thanks for all of the details in the shareholder letter. Very useful to get all those details.

感謝股東信中提供的所有詳細資訊。獲取所有這些詳細資訊非常有用。

Maybe if I can start with just a sort of clarification question on the AI/ML, and particularly, sort of the inclusion in the guidance or deciding not to put it in the guide? Maybe if you can sort of walk us through, are we sort of to interpret that you're not putting any of those AI/ML orders in the guide for fiscal '24? Or is there sort of some amount of it in the guide related to what you have more capacity visibility around? And you do mention sort of capacity ramp as one of the hurdles, I think, in the shareholder letter in relation to fiscal '24. So maybe if you can walk us through what are you seeing in terms of capacity challenges? What you need to sort of see in terms of milestones to include that in the guide going forward? And I have a quick follow-up.

也許我可以先問一些有關人工智慧/機器學習的澄清問題，特別是是否將其納入指南或決定不將其納入指南？也許如果您能向我們介紹一下，我們是否會認為您沒有將任何這些 AI/ML 訂單放入 24 財年指南中？或者指南中是否有一些內容與您擁有更多容量可見度相關？我認為，在與 24 財年相關的股東信中，您確實提到產能提升是障礙之一。那麼，也許您可以向我們介紹您所看到的容量挑戰是什麼？您需要在里程碑方面看到什麼才能將其納入未來的指南中？我有一個快速的跟進。

Okay. Thank you, Samik. I'll take that. Maybe three points are helpful.

好的。謝謝你，薩米克。我會接受的。也許三點會有幫助。

The first one is that the Q4 bookings that we had a surge that we reported, that surge was all about AI. That's number one. Number two, we have revenue for 800G transceivers contemplated inside our guidance in the $4.5 billion to $4.7 billion. There's meaningful revenue for a delivery of 800G transceivers. Those have already started. In the first half of the year, we will see a ramp from Q1 to Q2, but the substantial amount of revenue we will deliver, it will be in the second half of the year. And what's in front of that is managing our scale and especially managing our supply chain, and so we see the opportunity for over and above what we have in our plan. But that opportunity will require quite a few more synchronizations, including in the supply chain.

第一個是我們報告的第四季度預訂量激增，這種激增完全與人工智慧有關。這是第一名。第二，我們的指導中預計 800G 收發器的收入為 45 億至 47 億美元。交付 800G 收發器可以帶來可觀的收入。這些已經開始了。在今年上半年，我們將看到從第一季到第二季的成長，但我們將在下半年提供大量收入。擺在我們面前的是管理我們的規模，特別是管理我們的供應鏈，因此我們看到了超越我們計劃的機會。但這個機會將需要更多的同步，包括在供應鏈中。

As we work our way through in the next few months through the first and second quarter, we'll have our eyes set as we work to compete for the greater opportunity that may come inside this fiscal year.

當我們在接下來的幾個月中努力完成第一季和第二季時，我們將密切關注，努力爭取本財年內可能出現的更大機會。

Okay. Got it.

好的。知道了。

And then you did outline in the presentation -- in the shareholder letter, like, three separate opportunities in AI/ML relative to EMLs, your DFB laser as well as VCSELs. Any sort of thoughts in terms of broader terms where you see the most likelihood of success within those three buckets, and where most of these orders are coming in right now that you're seeing? In which bucket is that coming in?

然後，您在股東信中的簡報中概述了與 EML、DFB 雷射以及 VCSEL 相關的 AI/ML 領域的三個獨立機會。從更廣泛的角度來看，您認為這三個類別中最有可能成功，以及您現在看到的大多數訂單都來自哪裡？它會進入哪個桶子？

Okay. Well, I'll start out and then I'll ask Giovanni to finish it off, Samik.

好的。好吧，我會開始，然後我會請喬瓦尼完成它，薩米克。

As you know, we're a vertically integrated supplier and in addition to selling both VCSEL-based and EML-based transceivers for this application, we are also a supplier to the merchant market. And having said that, our ability to scale both at high performance and high volume and high quality to be able to meet this ramp is partly the basis on which we're going to continue to win both new orders and to be able to ship.

如您所知，我們是一家垂直一體化供應商，除了銷售適用於該應用的基於 VCSEL 和基於 EML 的收發器外，我們還是商業市場的供應商。話雖如此，我們以高性能、高產量和高品質進行擴展的能力，以滿足這一增長的需要，在一定程度上是我們繼續贏得新訂單和能夠發貨的基礎。

Giovanni, please elaborate.

喬瓦尼，請詳細說明。

So Samik, I would say that roughly right would be like one-third short-reach, short-wavelength, two-thirds long-reach, long-wavelength and -- which obviously, we can support both with our internal devices. And we see that kind of ratio being different in terms of volumes because price is different, so the volume will be probably 50-50. And that kind of ratio will probably be the same for the next five years, and I'm specifically talking about AI here, right? So the 800G, maybe even the -- in the future, the 1.6T, et cetera. So that kind of ratio will remain in the next few years, too.

所以 Samik，我想說，大致正確的是三分之一短距離、短波長，三分之二長距離、長波長——顯然，我們可以用我們的內部設備支持這兩者。我們看到這種比例在數量上有所不同，因為價格不同，所以數量可能是 50-50。未來五年這個比例可能會保持不變，我在這裡專門談論人工智慧，對嗎？所以800G，甚至未來的1.6T，等等。因此，這種比例在未來幾年也將保持不變。

Our next question from Simon Leopold of Raymond James.

我們的下一個問題來自雷蒙德·詹姆斯的西蒙·利奧波德。

Great. I appreciate you taking the question and providing all the detail last night. Gave us a little bit of time to try to digest this.

偉大的。感謝您昨晚提出問題並提供所有細節。給了我們一點時間來嘗試消化這一點。

So maybe a couple of aspects around the exclusion of the AI-related Datacom from the guidance. Could you help us understand the rationale for backing the AI-related business, which you described as worth several hundred millions, out of the guidance? And help us understand as well, if we wanted to include this in our own estimates, what do you think the impact would be on the EPS? Just as a very, very quick follow-up to this question, what assumption do you have in terms of your market share of 800 gig and above transceivers?

因此，可能有幾個方面圍繞著將人工智慧相關的數據通訊排除在指南之外。您能否幫助我們理解支援人工智慧相關業務（您稱其價值數億美元）的理由？也幫助我們理解，如果我們想將其納入我們自己的估計中，您認為這會對每股收益產生什麼影響？作為對這個問題的非常非常快速的跟進，您對 800 GB 及以上收發器的市場份額有何假設？

Okay, Simon. Simon, let me clarify and let me repeat what I said in response to Samik's question. Our guidance -- our revenue guidance for the full year -- and for the first quarter, but especially for the full year -- contemplates a meaningful amount of revenue for shipping 800G transceivers. I wanted to repeat that. Our plan contemplates a substantial amount of shipments. I believe that there may be additional upside, and that additional upside might be as much as $200 million. But for us to have the confidence to add it into our plan, we need to manage quite a few aspects of our ramp, and we're going to go for it. But I cannot be sure that we'll be successful in having everything come together in time to be able to have the confidence to add that $200 million or up to $200 million, but we're focused on it. And if we have anything more to say 90 days from now, we will.

好吧，西蒙。西蒙，讓我澄清一下，並讓我重複我在回答薩米克問題時所說的話。我們的指導——我們的全年收入指引——以及第一季度，尤其是全年——考慮到了 800G 收發器出貨量的可觀收入。我想重複一遍。我們的計劃考慮大量發貨。我相信可能還有額外的上漲空間，而且額外的上漲空間可能高達 2 億美元。但為了讓我們有信心將其添加到我們的計劃中，我們需要管理斜坡的許多方面，我們將努力做到這一點。但我不能確定我們是否能夠成功地及時完成所有工作，以便有信心增加 2 億美元或高達 2 億美元，但我們正在專注於此。如果 90 天後我們還有什麼要說的，我們會的。

With regard to your second question, our belief is that we're in a market leadership position. It's a competitive market. There are strengths that we bring, and we're going to continue to compete on the basis of the strengths that we have in this generation. Those strengths I outlined were evident in FY '23 with a rather substantial ramp in Datacom transceivers year-over-year from '21 to '22 to '23. We have the ability to scale, and we have the laser components for the generations that exist today and the 1.6T, which are coming.

關於你的第二個問題，我們相信我們處於市場領導地位。這是一個競爭激烈的市場。我們帶來了一些優勢，我們將繼續在這一代人所擁有的優勢的基礎上競爭。我概述的這些優勢在 23 財年表現得很明顯，從 21 財年到 22 財年再到 23 財年，數據通訊收發器的銷量逐年大幅增長。我們有能力擴展，並且我們擁有當今幾代和即將推出的 1.6T 的雷射組件。

And so on that basis, I think it's the first inning. It's very difficult to be assessing what the score will be in the fifth inning and the sixth inning of the game. Everybody is just getting started, and we're well positioned to be able to move even further past our own aspirations for our leadership position in this market.

因此，在此基礎上，我認為這是第一局。很難評估第五局和第六局的比數。每個人都剛開始，我們已經做好了充分的準備，能夠進一步超越我們自己對在這個市場中的領導地位的渴望。

That's very helpful. And just to sort of paraphrase it to make sure it's crystal clear, that the exclusion is because of risk of ramping the production capacity, shipping, it is not because you believe this is sort of a onetime flash in the pan kind of project, this is the beginning of a cycle. Correct?

這非常有幫助。只是為了解釋一下，以確保它非常清楚，排除是因為提高產能和運輸的風險，這並不是因為你認為這是一個曇花一現的項目，這個是一個循環的開始。正確的？

Right. This is the first inning of the game. It's the beginning of -- I'm not even sure it's a cycle. It's the beginning of a revolution. And there's a lot more to come, we believe. And by the way, if 90 days from now, I can update you on the possibility of additional revenue that we can add to the guidance if we're able to operationalize it, there may be more to come because this is just getting started, and we think that in '24 rolling into '25 it's going to continue to drive our growth.

正確的。這是比賽的第一局。這是——我什至不確定這是一個循環的開始。這是一場革命的開始。我們相信，還會有更多的事情發生。順便說一句，如果從現在起90 天后，我可以向您介紹我們可以將額外收入添加到指導中的最新情況，如果我們能夠將其付諸實施的話，可能還會有更多收入，因為這才剛剛開始，我們認為，從 24 年到 25 年，它將繼續推動我們的成長。

Our next question comes from Meta Marshall with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的梅塔·馬歇爾。

Great. Maybe just outside of the transceiver business for now. You had noted that visibility increased during the quarter. I just wanted to get a sense of whether that visibility increased anywhere outside of Datacom transceivers. And then just as you look at recovery of the business either late in the second half of the fiscal year into fiscal '25, just what segments are most likely to kind of recover first outside of Datacom?

偉大的。也許目前只是在收發器業務之外。您已經注意到本季度的可見度有所提高。我只是想了解數據通訊收發器之外的任何地方的可見性是否有所增加。然後，正如您在本財年下半年末到 25 財年期間觀察業務的復甦一樣，除了數據通訊之外，哪些細分市場最有可能首先復甦？

Okay.

好的。

Well, the Telecom business itself, given our position of our portfolio, the strength that we have with the Telecom customers, I'm expecting that the second half of the year to be better than the first half of the year, and that we'll expect -- I do expect to see some signs of recovery before the end of this calendar year. Signs of recovery will be follow-through on new orders, and those new orders will be consistent and commensurate with both the launch of some new products, including our pluggable DCO modules. And the ramp of those products from a base that we believe we can grow our share meaningfully beginning in the second half of next year. So Telecom would be one.

嗯，電信業務本身，考慮到我們的投資組合的地位，以及我們與電信客戶的實力，我預計下半年會比上半年更好，而且我們'我預計——我確實預計在今年年底之前會看到一些復甦的跡象。復甦的跡象將體現在新訂單上，這些新訂單將與一些新產品（包括我們的可插拔 DCO 模組）的推出保持一致和相稱。這些產品的成長是基於我們相信從明年下半年開始我們可以有意義地增加我們的份額。所以電信就是其中之一。

I do think the Industrial market is broad-based. We're diversified. And I don't want to say that we're at the bottom, but I do believe that any meaningful increase in macroeconomic activity, we will begin to see it both in laser utilization in our service business and the further adoption of laser technology, including for EV battery welding as just one example. Our silicon carbide substrate businesses is growing, is growing super nicely, I would say, and I'm expecting that to continue into '24.

我確實認為工業市場基礎廣泛。我們多元化。我不想說我們處於底部，但我確實相信，宏觀經濟活動的任何有意義的增長，我們都將開始在我們的服務業務中的激光利用以及激光技術的進一步採用中看到它，包括電動汽車電池焊接只是一個例子。我想說，我們的碳化矽基板業務正在成長，成長得非常好，我預計這種情況將持續到 24 年。

Maybe I'd stop, and Meta, take the follow-up, if you like.

也許我會停下來，如果你願意的話，梅塔會繼續跟進。

Yes. No. Just as a follow-up, I mean, just to come back to Datacom transceivers. When you talk about this kind of additional $200 million, is the majority of the gating item your capacity? Or are there other gating items to kind of recognition of that?

是的。不。 我的意思是，只是作為後續內容，回到數據通信收發器。當你談到這種額外的2億美元時，大部分門控項目是你的能力嗎？或是有其他門控項目來對此表示認可嗎？

Every manufacturing line has a first constraint. And when it's broken, there's one right behind it, the second constraint. Our job and our expertise is being able to figure out how to manage multiple constraints at one time. Managing the supply line, we have critical components that we're dependent on, and that supply line for the last six months or so has been in a wind-down mode with the tide going up. And the rather sudden adoption in the beginning of this -- the game, in this first inning, caught many in the industry by surprise. And therefore, we have to manage through certain aspects of the supply line. It's going, but if it were going faster, we'd be able to take on more because we have the capacity to do more, and we're aiming to do more. I believe that customers want us to do more.

每條生產線都有第一個限制條件。當它被打破時，它的後面就會出現第二個約束。我們的工作和專業知識是能夠弄清楚如何同時管理多個限制。管理供應線，我們擁有我們所依賴的關鍵組件，並且在過去六個月左右的時間裡，隨著潮水上漲，供應線一直處於逐步關閉模式。而在遊戲開始時相當突然的採用——在第一局遊戲中，讓許多業內人士感到驚訝。因此，我們必須對供應線的某些方面進行管理。它正在進展，但如果進展得更快，我們將承擔更多，因為我們有能力做得更多，而我們的目標是做得更多。我相信客戶希望我們做得更多。

And so in the next couple of months, the urgent approach to managing our entire manufacturing capacity will continue, and we'll give an update in 90 days.

因此，在接下來的幾個月中，管理我們整個製造能力的緊急方法將繼續下去，我們將在 90 天內提供更新。

Our next question comes from Vivek Arya with Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Vivek Arya。

One more on Datacom. For fiscal '23, what was your total Datacom transceiver sales? And how much was that in AI/ML? And I'm curious how are you drawing that line. Is it anything about 200 gig? And so that's my first question.

再來一篇關於數據通信的文章。 23 財年，您的數據通訊收發器總銷量是多少？人工智慧/機器學習領域的投入有多少？我很好奇你是如何畫這條線的。是200G左右的東西嗎？這是我的第一個問題。

Okay. Let me give it to you in broad strokes because I think that's -- that will do it for you.

好的。讓我粗略地向您介紹一下，因為我認為這對您來說是有用的。

Our Datacom transceiver sales in '23 were approximately 20% of our consolidated revenues. And as it relates to AI, whereas there may be some applications and sockets that are at data rates sort of less than 800, for us, when we talk about it, we're really talking about 800, and you'll hear us talk about our road map for 1.6. But in FY '23, it was not a material amount. We began shipping in the third quarter, and it's going to step up rather substantially in '24.

我們 23 年的數據通訊收發器銷售額約占我們合併收入的 20%。由於它與人工智慧相關，雖然可能有一些應用程式和套接字的數據速率低於 800，但對我們來說，當我們談論它時，我們實際上談論的是 800，你會聽到我們談論關於1.6 的路線圖。但在 23 財年，這並不是一個重大數字。我們從第三季開始出貨，並將在 2024 年大幅增加。

Thank you, Chuck. And for my follow-up, I was hoping if you or Mary Jane could provide the bridge between the sales guidance and then the earnings guidance? What are you assuming for gross margins in fiscal '24 and the exit OpEx rate in fiscal '24?

謝謝你，查克。對於我的後續行動，我希望您或瑪麗簡能否提供銷售指導和盈利指導之間的橋樑？您對 24 財年的毛利率和 24 財年的退出營運支出率有何假設？

Okay. Thank you, Vivek. Mary Jane?

好的。謝謝你，維韋克。瑪麗珍？

So I think with respect to the whole year, we're widening our gross margin range to 37% to 42%. And at lower revenues similar to what we have in the guidance, given the importance of volume, the margins may not be at 40% every quarter, so that's the first thing.

因此，我認為就全年而言，我們將毛利率範圍擴大到 37% 至 42%。在收入較低的情況下，與我們在指導中的情況類似，考慮到銷售的重要性，每個季度的利潤率可能不會達到 40%，所以這是第一件事。

The second thing is, similarly at the same level of revenue that we're talking about for the full year guidance, the OpEx tends to be a little bit higher percentage of sales, not because the dollar value of the OpEx is going up but because the revenue is lower. So it's probably in the neighborhood of about 22% or 23%, which is the high end of our range of 20% to 23%. So that's the way we're looking at it. I do think that as the year goes on, we will probably see the margins improve as the volume picks up, especially if some of the outlook that we have that we think covers somewhere between the next two to four quarters starts to recover in the back half of the year.

第二件事是，類似地，在我們談論的全年指導收入水平相同的情況下，營運支出佔銷售額的比例往往會稍高一些，不是因為營運支出的美元價值上升，而是因為收入較低。所以它可能在 22% 或 23% 左右，這是我們 20% 到 23% 範圍的上限。這就是我們看待它的方式。我確實認為，隨著時間的推移，隨著銷量的增加，我們可能會看到利潤率有所改善，特別是如果我們認為涵蓋未來兩到四個季度的某些前景開始在後面恢復的話半年。

But Mary Jane, how do we reconcile -- I mean, you're guiding sales down, I think, what, about 11% at the midpoint and earnings down almost 58% at the midpoint. So what declines a lot more? Because gross margins, from what you are suggesting, sort of seem to be about where they are in fiscal '23, unless I'm getting that wrong. So what are those missing pieces that are driving -- is it share count? Like, what is making earnings decline so much faster?

但瑪麗簡，我們如何調和——我的意思是，你引導銷售額下降，我想，中點大約下降 11%，中點利潤下降近 58%。那麼什麼會下降更多呢？因為從你的建議來看，毛利率似乎與 23 財年的情況有關，除非我弄錯了。那麼那些缺失的部分正在推動什麼——是份額計數嗎？比如，是什麼讓獲利下降得如此之快？

Comparing to '23, I mean, the revenue alone, comparing just to the -- say, the $4.7 billion, the revenue alone is $0.91. So the revenue declining is a significant impact on the earnings. And then from there, the taxes make a difference. The dividends change somewhat. Even though we have the share count converting on the Series A, the in-kind dividends also start to go up because they're capitalized. So those are probably the major things, but the revenue being below '23 is the primary driver.

我的意思是，與 23 年相比，僅收入，僅與 47 億美元相比，僅收入為 0.91 美元。因此，收入下降對獲利有重大影響。然後從那裡開始，稅收就會產生影響。股利略有變動。儘管我們在 A 輪融資中轉換了股份數量，但實物股息也開始增加，因為它們已資本化。因此，這些可能是主要因素，但低於 23 年的收入才是主要驅動力。

Our next question comes from Tom O'Malley with Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的湯姆·奧馬利。

I just wanted to see what silicon carbide was as a percentage of total revenue in the June quarter. In the prepared remarks, you talked about the continued supply constraints just from not being able to scale, but you also said it grew nicely. Could you just give it for the June quarter?

我只是想看看碳化矽佔第二季總收入的百分比是多少。在準備好的發言中，您談到了由於無法擴大規模而導致的持續供應限制，但您也表示成長良好。你能給出六月季度的數據嗎？

Yes. Just give us a second. Yes.

是的。請給我們一點時間。是的。

The whole of the Wide-Bandgap product line was about 6% of revenue.

整個寬頻隙產品線約佔收入的 6%。

Okay.

好的。

And then I just wanted to ask just a technical question, maybe this is in Giovanni's camp. So in terms of AI connections that you're seeing today, I thought it was interesting in your slide deck, you showed that the biggest growing opportunity between '23 and '28 is the silicon photonics portion where you have it going from like $800 million to $4.6 billion. Where are you guys playing in silicon photonics? And why is that growing so fast in that period of time?

然後我只想問一個技術問題，也許這是喬瓦尼的陣營。因此，就您今天看到的人工智慧連接而言，我認為您的幻燈片很有趣，您展示了 23 年至 28 年間最大的成長機會是矽光子部分，該部分的成本約為 8 億美元至46 億美元。你們在矽光子學領域處於什麼位置？為什麼那段時間成長得這麼快？

Well, there are solutions that, from a power consumption and, generally speaking, performance standpoint, are better suited for silicon photonics, you still need a laser for those solutions. And we see -- I would say there is a split. Silicon photonics is not in the slide, it's not identified. It's not split between short-reach and long-reach, short-wavelength, let's say, or what we call it short-reach, long-reach. So I would say that split is still one-third short-reach, two-thirds long-reach, and both of them are related to the AI ramp that we talked about. So that's what we are seeing.

好吧，從功耗和一般來說性能的角度來看，有些解決方案更適合矽光子學，但這些解決方案仍然需要雷射。我們看到——我想說的是存在分歧。矽光子學不在幻燈片中，也沒有被辨識。它不分為短距離和長距離，比如說短波長，或是我們所說的短距離、長距離。所以我想說，分裂仍然是三分之一短距離，三分之二長距離，這兩者都與我們談到的人工智慧斜坡有關。這就是我們所看到的。

So the growth -- and of course, there is no -- that's not all of it. That's growing fast, but it's also -- there's a VCSEL part, which is also growing very fast, and that's unrelated to the silicon photonics part. But just with respect to silicon photonics, that's the split between -- still all AI, but it's a split of, let's say, one-third/two-thirds, short-reach/long-reach.

所以成長——當然，沒有成長——這還不是全部。它增長很快，但 VCSEL 部分也增長得非常快，而且與矽光子部分無關。但就矽光子學而言，這就是人工智慧之間的差距，但它是三分之一/三分之二、短距離/長距離的差距。

Our next question comes from Jed Dorsheimer with William Blair.

我們的下一個問題來自傑德·多斯海默和威廉·布萊爾。

Just as a follow-up to the previous on silicon carbide, am I looking at this correctly that if I look at the Wide-Bandgap and I strip out indium phosphide, the silicon carbide's roughly 70% of that business? And -- or is there anything else that I need to be aware of in that business?

正如前面關於碳化矽的後續內容一樣，如果我觀察寬頻隙並去掉磷化銦，碳化矽大約佔該業務的 70%，我是否正確地看待這一點？還有——或者在這個行業裡還有什麼我需要注意的嗎？

Jed, can you repeat your question? Which set of financials?

傑德，你能重複一下你的問題嗎？哪一組財務？

What I'm trying to get at is the growth in silicon carbide, previously, you've said that that was 3% of sales. And now, Wide-Bandgap is a total of 6%. Within Wide-Bandgap, I think the other major component is indium phosphide, but that seems to be relatively small, of about 20% to 30%, so the vast majority is silicon carbide. Is there anything else that would be -- that would need to be removed to get back to that silicon carbide? Because what I'm trying to understand is the growth year-over-year of that business.

我想了解的是碳化矽的成長，之前您說過佔銷售額的 3%。現在，寬頻隙總計為 6%。在寬頻隙中，我認為另一個主要成分是磷化銦，但似乎相對較少，大約20%到30%，所以絕大多數是碳化矽。是否還有其他東西需要移除才能恢復到碳化矽？因為我想要了解的是該業務的逐年成長。

Okay, Jed.

好吧，傑德。

Jed, in our Wide-Bandgap electronics platform, the majority of the sales are for silicon carbide substrates. That's -- there were no indium phosphide or gallium arsenide. There's nothing of any other compound semiconductors. But we do have our ion implantation services business, which includes providing ion implant services for silicon carbide to customers who are operating fabs. And so it is silicon carbide-based, and that's the focus of our Wide-Bandgap electronics platform, and it is growing. It is outpacing the growth of the company.

Jed，在我們的寬頻隙電子平台中，大部分銷售來自碳化矽基板。那就是——沒有磷化銦或砷化鎵。沒有任何其他化合物半導體。但我們確實有離子注入服務業務，其中包括為營運晶圓廠的客戶提供碳化矽離子注入服務。因此它是基於碳化矽的，這是我們寬頻隙電子平台的重點，而且它正在不斷發展。它的成長速度超過了公司的成長速度。

And it's been 4% to 5% for the last several quarters, Jed.

傑德，過去幾季的成長率為 4% 到 5%。

Got it. Okay.

知道了。好的。

Well -- and then I guess maybe just -- you mentioned that the -- in the shareholder letter that 40% of the CapEx was directed to this business unit. And then last quarter, I think you updated, saying that you were looking at a strategic review of this business unit. It's a lot of CapEx for something that's relatively small, albeit growing. So just how should we think of that percentage in the '24 guide? Do you expect a linear growth? Or are you expecting with this capital intensity in terms of expansion that, that would be nonlinear?

嗯——然後我想也許只是——你提到——在股東信中，40% 的資本支出直接用於該業務部門。然後上個季度，我認為您更新了，說您正在對該業務部門進行策略審查。雖然規模相對較小，但不斷成長，但資本支出卻很高。那麼我們應該如何看待 '24 指南中的這個百分比呢？您期望線性成長嗎？還是您期望在擴張方面的資本密集度會是非線性的？

I'm expecting that in FY '24, and planning, that about 40% to 50% of our capital will be invested in silicon carbide to fuel the growth.

我預計在 24 財年和規劃中，我們大約 40% 到 50% 的資本將投資於碳化矽，以推動成長。

Sure.

當然。

What I was getting at though, Chuck, is, so in a business that you're looking at a strategic review, which could take different forms, that's a lot of CapEx that you're putting into that business. Are you expecting nonlinear growth in that segment? So in other words, if you're at 6% right now, in that forecast, is that expected to double? Is it expected -- that's what I'm -- to justify the CapEx in that business unit.

不過，查克，我的意思是，在一家企業中，你正在考慮進行策略審查，這可能採取不同的形式，你要在該企業中投入大量資本支出。您預計該領域會出現非線性成長嗎？換句話說，如果現在的成長率為 6%，在該預測中，這個數字是否會翻倍？我希望證明該業務部門的資本支出是合理的嗎？

Mary Jane, would you like to?

瑪麗簡，你願意嗎？

Well, certainly, I think as we have seen and talked about probably in prior quarters, as the mainline vehicles from kind of mainline car suppliers start to move to electric, we absolutely expect that this market will have an inflection point upwards, and I think we're only seeing just the beginning of that. The growth was very strong in the fourth quarter, it was strong in the third quarter, and I think we do expect that to continue.

嗯，當然，我認為正如我們在前幾個季度所看到和討論的那樣，隨著主流汽車供應商的主流汽車開始轉向電動，我們絕對預計這個市場將出現一個向上的拐點，我認為我們僅僅看到了這一切的開始。第四季的成長非常強勁，第三季也很強勁，我認為我們確實預計這種情況會持續下去。

Obviously, customers -- it's -- fortunately, this business is somewhat more rational than other parts of our business. But it's a -- it's important for the capacity to be there for people also to commit to being able to change over half of their entire car lines, if not more than that.

顯然，客戶——幸運的是，這項業務比我們業務的其他部分更加理性。但這對於人們的能力來說很重要，他們也承諾能夠更換整個汽車系列的一半以上，甚至更多。

As it's in Giovanni's segment, Giovanni, would you like to add?

因為這是喬瓦尼的部分，喬瓦尼，你想補充嗎？

So Jed, just -- I'll give you a number. FY '23, FY '24, we expect growth of at least 40%, 4-0, okay?

所以傑德，我會給你一個號碼。 23 財年、24 財年，我們預期成長至少 40%，4-0，好嗎？

Our next question comes from Christopher Rolland with Susquehanna.

我們的下一個問題來自薩斯奎哈納的克里斯多福羅蘭。

Sorry, on mute.

抱歉，靜音。

Yes. I was wondering if you guys might be able to talk about any kind of nontraditional engagements? Have you guys had any engagements for optical or lasers into things like AI systems or servers or cards? And perhaps if you could talk a little bit more broadly about the economics for AI just in your transceiver business, how margins compare to corporate, what the OpEx needs are to support that business, et cetera?

是的。我想知道你們是否可以談論任何類型的非傳統活動？你們是否參與過將光學或雷射技術應用於人工智慧系統、伺服器或卡片等領域？也許您可以更廣泛地談論一下收發器業務中人工智慧的經濟性、與企業相比的利潤率如何、營運支出需要什麼來支援該業務等等？

Chris, could you repeat the first part of your question? The nonfinancial part?

克里斯，你能重複一下你問題的第一部分嗎？非財務部分？

Yes.

是的。

So your competitor, for example, is starting to talk about custom AI designs that are going into systems, not just transceivers. And I was wondering if any hyperscalers have engaged you, any AI-specific companies have engaged you in custom designs?

例如，您的競爭對手開始談論將進入系統而不僅僅是收發器的客製化人工智慧設計。我想知道是否有任何超大規模企業與您合作，是否有任何特定於人工智慧的公司與您合作進行客製化設計？

Giovanni, would you take that?

喬瓦尼，你願意嗎？

Well, so let me start with the -- our strength is the device technology. We currently ship -- sell -- more devices than we actually use internally. So we -- most of our competitors are actually our customers too, as you probably know. So because of the broad-based laser and receivers technology platforms that we have, both in short-wavelength, short-reach, long-wavelength, long-reach. So we are engaged on some, let's say, nonstandard designs with some end customers. But even those customizations at the end of the day, in terms of guaranteeing interoperability, they will have to be standardized at some point.

好吧，讓我從——我們的優勢是設備技術開始。我們目前運送、銷售的設備數量多於我們內部實際使用的設備數量。因此，正如您可能知道的那樣，我們的大多數競爭對手實際上也是我們的客戶。由於我們擁有廣泛的雷射和接收器技術平台，無論是短波長、短距離、長波長或長距離。因此，我們正在與一些最終客戶進行一些非標準設計。但即使是這些定制，在保證互通性方面，最終也必須在某個時候進行標準化。

And so I don't believe there is any difference in terms of the process of standardization that we've seen in the past 20 years of the datacom port. Of course, as the people try to improve performance, cost of ownership, et cetera, there are ways to customize the solution internally. I want to remind you that at the end of the day, all of these x-hundred Gs are all 100Gs optical lanes, so it all comes down to 100G anyway. And so some of them are parallel, some of them are different types of [approaches], multiplex and so forth. But at the end of the day, it's all 100G in the optical lane level, even if there may be 200G electrical lanes coming soon in the future, of course, 200G optical lanes coming soon. But today, that's where we are.

因此，我認為過去 20 年數據通訊連接埠的標準化過程沒有任何差異。當然，當人們試圖提高效能、降低擁有成本等時，有一些方法可以在內部客製化解決方案。我想提醒您的是，歸根結底，所有這些 100G 的光通道都是 100G 光通道，所以無論如何，這一切都歸結為 100G。因此，其中一些是並行的，一些是不同類型的[方法]、多路復用等等。但歸根究底，光通道層面都是100G，即使未來可能很快就會出現200G電通道，當然，200G光通道也很快就會出現。但今天，這就是我們的處境。

So there is some level of customization, but I don't think it changes the -- again, our ability to compete is still substantially better than, I would say, most of our competitors because we -- as you know, we are the most vertically integrated out there, which doesn't only improve our ability to, as we were saying earlier, to [run] and support the demand that we see, but also the ability to differentiate at the transceiver internal design level. So we are engaged from that perspective. Some of these super-customers, they call it, customize solutions for some of the AI players.

因此，存在一定程度的定制，但我不認為這會改變——再說一遍，我們的競爭能力仍然比我們的大多數競爭對手要好得多，因為我們——如你所知，我們是正如我們之前所說，這不僅提高了我們[運行]和支持我們所看到的需求的能力，而且還提高了我們在收發器內部設計層面的差異化能力。所以我們從這個角度參與。他們稱之為超級客戶，其中一些為一些人工智慧玩家量身定制解決方案。

Mary Jane, would you address --.

瑪麗簡，你可以說——。

With respect to the margin.

關於邊距。

So generally speaking, you'll remember that the communications entire end market, the margins tend to be below the corporate average. Having said that, the higher data rate and typically more technologically complex products that deliver a greater value tend to have margins that are above the average within communications to a pretty decent extent.

一般來說，您會記得通訊整個終端市場的利潤率往往低於企業平均。話雖如此，更高的數據速率和通常技術更複雜的產品可提供更大的價值，其利潤往往在相當可觀的程度上高於通訊領域的平均水平。

Great.

偉大的。

For my second question here, I know it's hard to figure this out and inventory at your customers, and I know it's going to take a few more quarters here to work through, but is there any way to kind of quantify what this inventory burn is? What you think normalization would have been at your customers? How much more would you have shipped if you're shipping in line with demand? Any thoughts on that? And then any thoughts on perhaps the linearity of how this inventory dynamic plays out?

對於我的第二個問題，我知道很難弄清楚這一點以及客戶的庫存，而且我知道這將需要幾個季度才能解決，但是有什麼方法可以量化庫存消耗的情況？您認為正常化會對您的客戶帶來什麼影響？如果您依照需求出貨，您會多出貨多少？對此有什麼想法嗎？那麼對於這種庫存動態如何發揮線性作用有什麼想法嗎？

Okay, Chris.

好吧，克里斯。

I won't be able to speculate on what it could have been. It's a -- it would be too complex a function and have great uncertainty, I think. But 90 days ago, I said I thought that the moderation would persist at least until the end of this calendar year and maybe longer, and it's still not possible to call it any better than the remarks I made earlier. And as it relates to Telecom as one -- as a kind of a primary market where we were -- we are affected by it, I am hopeful for sure and looking and engaged in discussions with customers. I believe that we won't see a turn up before the second half, and I believe that we will begin to see some signs of it by then.

我無法推測它可能是什麼。我認為，這是一個過於複雜的函數，並且具有很大的不確定性。但90天前，我曾說過，我認為這種溫和的態度至少會持續到今年年底，甚至可能更長，而且仍然不可能比我之前的言論更好。由於它與電信相關——作為我們所在的一種主要市場——我們受到了它的影響，我對此充滿希望，並且正在與客戶進行討論。我相信在下半場之前我們不會看到好轉，而且我相信到那時我們會開始看到一些跡象。

Our next question comes from Ananda Baruah with Loop Capital.

我們的下一個問題來自 Loop Capital 的 Ananda Baruah。

I guess two, if I could.

如果可以的話，我想有兩個。

In the shareholder letter, you guys also talk about sort of AI exposures being more than just AI transceivers. And I think there is mention made of AI active and passive components, high-speed lasers, and was wondering if you could drill down on that? I think you gave some context at OFC on this as well, but would love to get context on that? Any updated way you're thinking about that? And then I have a quick follow-up.

在股東信中，你們也談到了人工智慧的暴露不僅僅是人工智慧收發器。我認為其中提到了人工智慧主動和被動元件、高速雷射器，並且想知道您是否可以深入探討這一點？我想您在 OFC 也就此提供了一些背景信息，但您想了解相關背景嗎？有什麼更新的想法嗎？然後我會進行快速跟進。

Okay, Ananda. Giovanni, maybe just talk about VCSELs, EMLs and optics.

好吧，阿南達。 Giovanni，也許只談 VCSEL、EML 和光學器件。

Yes. So Ananda, I guess you were wondering if the -- I mean, obviously, the vast -- the larger share of the revenue upside that we see in the year due to the surge in demand, which was, by the way, was a surge because it was unexpected in terms of size and timing, but not necessarily unexpected for the market trend because we know it was going to come at some point, but it caught us a little bit by surprise. And fortunately, we had -- we do have the 800G platform ready. So it's a small question of logistics and supply chain and ramping up, so that's one (inaudible).

是的。所以阿南達，我想你想知道，我的意思是，顯然，我們今年看到的收入增長中所佔的較大份額是否是由於需求激增所致，順便說一句，這是一個激增是因為它的規模和時間都出乎意料，但對於市場趨勢來說不一定是出乎意料的，因為我們知道它會在某個時候出現，但它讓我們有點驚訝。幸運的是，我們確實已經準備好了 800G 平台。所以這是物流和供應鏈的一個小問題，並且正在加速，所以這就是一個（聽不清楚）。

But in terms of the split, let's say, let's call it, between modules and devices, let's say, transceivers and lasers, photodiodes, in some cases even ICs. Obviously, the transceiver is 90% of the total. So that's kind of the split that we see in the, let's say, in the next 12 months in the fiscal year, the fiscal '24. So that's kind of roughly like the ratio revenue-wise.

但就模組和設備之間的劃分而言，比如說，收發器和雷射、光電二極體，在某些情況下甚至是 IC。顯然，收發器佔總數的90%。這就是我們在本財年（即 24 財年）的未來 12 個月內看到的這種分裂。所以這有點像是收入比。

That's helpful, Giovanni. I appreciate that.

這很有幫助，喬瓦尼。我很欣賞這一點。

And I guess as the follow-up, very -- thanks a lot for the detail on the AI transceiver TAM in the slide deck and the go-forward view. Any opinion on what -- like, where you ultimately sit share-wise in the various buckets, the way you've laid them out? I mean just sort of bigger picture. And do you think you're in a position to gain share going forward as well? Any context around that would be helpful.

我想接下來，非常感謝幻燈片和前瞻視圖中有關 AI 收發器 TAM 的詳細資訊。對於什麼——例如，你最終在各個桶中的份額以及你對它們的佈局方式有什麼看法嗎？我的意思是更大的圖景。您認為您未來也有能力獲得市場佔有率嗎？任何與此相關的背景都會有所幫助。

Ananda, we are the largest transceiver maker in the marketplace. And as it relates to this 800G opportunity, and more broadly AI, including the generations to come, our goal is to be the market leader. It's early and as a starting point, but even though it's early, we've gotten busy. I believe that in '24, what we have baked into our plan is already a super-exciting ramp, and I believe that there will be a possible upside of several hundreds of millions, even in '24, in the back half of '24. And I believe that our ability to address the market, to serve the market, to scale in the market is going to be critical for us to be able to win. Our goal is to be the market leader.

Ananda，我們是市場上最大的收發器製造商。由於它與 800G 機會以及更廣泛的人工智慧（包括下一代）相關，我們的目標是成為市場領導者。雖然時間還早，但我們還是很忙。我相信在24年，我們的計劃已經是一個超級令人興奮的斜坡，而且我相信即使在24年，在24年後半段，也可能有數億的上升空間。我相信，我們應對市場、服務市場、擴大市場規模的能力對於我們能否獲勝至關重要。我們的目標是成為市場領導者。

And Chuck, is there anything about how you're sort of going to market with (inaudible) with the sort of technology portfolio that you have that you think could increase your advantage in the market 800G, 1.6T, et cetera, relative to where you are today already as the leader?

Chuck，有什麼關於您如何使用（聽不清楚）您擁有的技術組合進入市場的信息，您認為這些技術組合可以增加您在 800G、1.6T 等市場上的優勢，相對於您今天已經是領導者了嗎？

Yes, absolutely. Let me repeat. Our laser-based technology, both short-wavelength and long-wavelength, and the demands on that laser technology, including for 800 but especially for 1.6, will separate us even further from the other players in the marketplace because we are the only vertically integrated company that has a road map to support well beyond 800G. And I believe that those are among the very strong value propositions that we present to a customer.

是的，絕對是。讓我重複一遍。我們基於雷射的技術，包括短波長和長波長，以及對該雷射技術的需求（包括 800，尤其是 1.6），將使我們與市場上的其他參與者進一步分離，因為我們是唯一的垂直整合公司該公司擁有支援遠遠超過800G 的路線圖。我相信這些都是我們向客戶呈現的非常強大的價值主張。

Our next question comes from Ruben Roy with Stifel.

我們的下一個問題來自魯本·羅伊和斯蒂菲爾。

Chuck, if I can ask you to put a little bit of a finer point on the AI/ML transceiver momentum you're seeing. How would do you characterize the relative strength today, at least in sort of optics going into InfiniBand AI training clusters versus Ethernet? And really, what I'm trying to get to is if you can give us a sense of timing and qualification cycles for Ethernet deployments, say, 800 gig and then eventually 1.6T would be helpful.

Chuck，我能否請您對您所看到的 AI/ML 收發器動能進行更詳細的闡述。您如何描述當今的相對優勢，至少在 InfiniBand AI 訓練群集與乙太網路的光學器件方面？實際上，我想了解的是，如果您能讓我們了解乙太網路部署的時間和資格週期，例如 800 gig，然後最終是 1.6T，將會有所幫助。

Okay. Ruben, I'll ask Giovanni to address both.

好的。魯本，我會請喬瓦尼解決這兩個問題。

So there is -- we are absolutely agnostic to the -- ultimately, the switch architecture of the customers, right? So if you talk about maybe the market where the demand is, maybe there is a higher demand for the InfiniBand than Ethernet and the rest, right? So but I -- just from a hardware standpoint, it makes absolutely no difference to us.

因此，我們對客戶的交換器架構最終是完全不可知的，對嗎？因此，如果您談論需求所在的市場，也許對 InfiniBand 的需求比乙太網路和其他產品更高，對嗎？所以，但我——僅從硬體的角度來看，這對我們來說絕對沒有區別。

Okay, Giovanni.

好吧，喬瓦尼。

So are you qualified then for some -- I think some of the cloud service providers are talking about moving to Ethernet switches, 51.2 terabit, et cetera. Are you qualified as those switches move out at some point in 2024?

那麼您是否有資格進行某些工作——我認為一些雲端服務供應商正在談論轉向乙太網路交換器、51.2 太比特等。當這些轉變在 2024 年某個時候取消時，您是否符合資格？

Yes, absolutely.

是的，絕對是。

Okay. Okay.

好的。好的。

And then I guess one last question then for Chuck and Giovanni, you mentioned the 20% of consolidated revenue in fiscal '23 related to what you would consider AI/ML. That leaves a pretty big portion of sort of how I would consider legacy transceivers, 200 gig, maybe, and lower. How do you think that plays out? Do you think the AI/ML stuff is going to ramp faster than legacy falls off or legacy sort of hangs in there? How are you considering that?

然後我想問 Chuck 和 Giovanni 的最後一個問題，你們提到 23 財年合併收入的 20% 與你們所認為的 AI/ML 有關。這留下了我對傳統收發器的很大一部分看法，也許是 200 GB，甚至更低。您認為結果如何？您是否認為人工智慧/機器學習的發展速度會快於傳統技術的衰退或傳統技術的停滯？您如何考慮？

Okay. Ruben, let me clarify. My earlier comment was about 20% of our consolidated FY '23 sales were in Datacom transceivers. So let me add -- let me ask if you have any question about that.

好的。魯本，讓我澄清一下。我之前的評論是我們 23 財年合併銷售額的大約 20% 來自資料通訊收發器。所以讓我補充一下——讓我問你是否對此有任何疑問。

No. I messed that up, then.

不，那是我搞砸了。

I'm glad we're talking.

我很高興我們正在交談。

As we indicated in the shareholder letter, we had a 10% customer in the communications market that was in the data communications market. And that -- the demand for those legacy products, in my prepared remarks, I alluded to the declining demand for certain legacy products from our customers. That demand in FY '24 is going to roll off. That is our plan. As it rolls off, even faster than it rolls off, I'm expecting that inside the fiscal year '24 that we are able to replace it with 800G AI transceivers at a minimum, and we're aiming to do more than that. Is that clear?

正如我們在股東信中指出的那樣，我們在通訊市場中有 10% 的客戶屬於數據通訊市場。對這些遺留產品的需求，在我準備好的發言中，我提到了我們的客戶對某些遺留產品的需求下降。 24 財年的需求將會下降。這就是我們的計劃。隨著它的推出，甚至比它推出的速度還要快，我預計在 24 財年內，我們至少能夠用 800G AI 收發器取代它，而且我們的目標是做得更多。清楚了嗎？

One moment before our next question. Our next question comes from Dave Kang with B. Riley.

就在我們下一個問題之前。我們的下一個問題來自 Dave Kang 和 B. Riley。

My first question is regarding your transceiver revenues. What was the split between different speed like 100 gig, 400 gig last year? And now, with 800-gig ramping, what do you think that mix will be this fiscal year? And what's the margin differential between 100 gig versus 400 and 800 gig?

我的第一個問題是關於你們的收發器收入。去年 100 gig、400 gig 等不同速度之間的差距是多少？現在，隨著 800 場演出的增加，您認為本財年的混合會如何？ 100 G 與 400 G 和 800 G 之間的利潤差異是多少？

Giovanni, do you want to?

喬瓦尼，你願意嗎？

I would say that the 200 gig and above was about maybe, I would say, 30% of the total, and the rest was 200 gig and below. However, let me tell you the split between the -- sorry, the other way around. Sorry, I invented a number.

我想說，200 演出及以上約佔總數的 30%，其餘的則是 200 演出及以下。然而，讓我告訴你兩者之間的分歧——抱歉，相反。抱歉，我發明了一個數字。

So Giovanni, so 200 gig and above was 70%? Just wanted to make clear.

那麼 Giovanni，那麼 200 場演出及以上就是 70%？只是想澄清一下。

Yes. Yes.

是的。是的。

Okay. Okay.

好的。好的。

So now in terms of the major change in our revenue distribution has been -- if you recall in the past, we said that one-third was hyperscalers, one-third, let's say, top-20 cloud and then one-third the rest, let's say, enterprise and the rest. So as a result of the shift to AI and the result of some inventory in what we did over FY '23, that ratio has actually changed now to two-thirds is around AI, at least for FY '24, and that's -- most of it will be 800G and 200G and above. Of course, including 800G. And then the rest is, let's say, smaller cloud players and enterprise. So that ratio, one-third, one-third, one-third is like two-thirds, and then the other one-third is split between the remaining cloud providers and the enterprise. So hyperscalers will be a much larger share of the total than in FY '23.

因此，現在就我們收入分配的主要變化而言，如果您還記得過去，我們說三分之一是超大規模企業，三分之一是排名前 20 的雲，然後是其餘的三分之一例如說，企業等等。因此，由於向人工智慧的轉變以及我們在23 財年所做的一些庫存的結果，該比率現在實際上已經變為圍繞人工智慧的三分之二，至少對於24 財年來說是這樣，而這就是——大多數其中800G和200G以上。當然也包括800G。剩下的就是規模較小的雲端廠商和企業。所以這個比例，三分之一，三分之一，三分之一就像三分之二，然後剩下的三分之一由剩餘的雲端供應商和企業分配。因此，超大規模企業在總數中所佔的份額將比 23 財年大得多。

And how does that transition that the shift impact the margins?

這種轉變如何影響利潤率？

So as I noted earlier, the margins on the higher data rate, more technologically complex products tend to be higher than the average in a given group. So in the case of transceivers, these greater than 200G and certainly 800G would be above the average.

正如我之前指出的，數據速率更高、技術更複雜的產品的利潤往往高於特定組的平均水平。因此，就收發器而言，大於 200G 甚至 800G 的收發器將高於平均值。

Having said that, for those parts that are, say, 100G and below, at some point, we become very, very, very good at making those. So the lower margin tends to -- the lower-margin products or average-margin products tend to hold actually because as time goes on, also, we're almost the only one that makes them. So generally speaking, that's how you should think about the margin structure there.

話雖如此，對於那些 100G 及以下的零件，在某些時候，我們會變得非常非常擅長製造這些零件。因此，較低的利潤往往 - 較低利潤的產品或平均利潤的產品實際上往往會保持不變，因為隨著時間的推移，我們幾乎是唯一製造它們的公司。一般來說，這就是您應該如何考慮那裡的利潤結構。

Got it.

知道了。

And maybe, Mary Jane, just my last question is on your backlog, $2.7 billion. I was wondering if you can provide the split between your three divisions? And also, if you can provide -- I know you've provided operating margins for three divisions. I'm wondering if we can get gross margins for those three?

瑪麗簡，也許我的最後一個問題就在你的待辦事項中，27 億美元。我想知道您是否可以提供三個部門之間的分配情況？而且，如果你能提供——我知道你已經提供了三個部門的營業利潤率。我想知道我們是否可以獲得這三個產品的毛利率？

So with respect to the backlog for the Materials segment, of the $2.7 billion, it's about $650 million. Of the Networking segment, it's about $1.2 million, and the balance would be in Lasers.

因此，就材料部門的積壓訂單而言，在 27 億美元中，約有 6.5 億美元。網路部分的費用約為 120 萬美元，其餘部分用於雷射。

With respect to the gross margin of the segments, we don't typically give that, as you know. But I think that you can imagine that it basically goes in somewhat parallel to the operating margin, remembering that grown materials and laser diodes have the highest margins in the company along with typically our industrial products. The laser systems are typically slightly above the corporate average, and the -- the communications margins tend to be below the corporate average.

如您所知，關於各細分市場的毛利率，我們通常不會給出。但我認為你可以想像它基本上與營業利潤率平行，記住生長材料和雷射二極體以及通常我們的工業產品在公司中具有最高的利潤率。雷射系統的利潤率通常略高於公司平均水平，而通訊利潤率往往低於公司平均水平。

Our next question comes from Jim Ricchiuti with Needham & Company.

我們的下一個問題來自 Needham & Company 的 Jim Ricchiuti。

Mary Jane, I wonder if you could -- you'd be willing to share any targets for debt reduction? In fiscal '24, maybe, say, at the midpoint of your full year guidance, how should we be thinking about that? Then I have a follow-up.

瑪麗簡，我想知道您是否願意分享任何債務削減目標？在 24 財年，也許，在您的全年指導的中期，我們應該如何考慮這個問題？然後我有一個後續行動。

Well, the -- so we haven't previously talked about targets for debt reduction. Obviously, we would have strived to be north of $200 million on that. Paying down the debt remains a very, very high priority. A very, very high priority, to the point that while the CapEx is the first call on the capital structure, we have been very, very aggressive about managing that CapEx because, to some extent, the CapEx naturally moderates in lower -- in periods of lower revenue.

嗯，所以我們之前沒有討論過債務削減目標。顯然，我們會努力在這方面爭取超過 2 億美元。償還債務仍然是非常非常重要的優先事項。這是一個非常非常高的優先事項，雖然資本支出是對資本結構的第一個要求，但我們在管理資本支出方面一直非常非常積極，因為在某種程度上，資本支出在較低的時期自然會放緩的收入較低。

And then looking at some of the comments you made in the shareholder letter on the display side of the business. I'm wondering if you -- are you expecting any kind of seasonal pickup in utilization that's going to drive that part of the business in the first half? And just in light of what we're hearing from one of the suppliers of OLED materials into the handset market? And then on the systems side, you alluded to pick up in orders out of China. Is that deliveries for fiscal '24 or the bulk of those in fiscal '25?

然後看看您在股東信中對業務顯示方面提出的一些評論。我想知道您是否預期利用率會出現季節性回升，從而推動上半年這部分業務的發展？根據我們從一家手機市場 OLED 材料供應商那裡聽到的消息？然後在系統方面，您提到要接收來自中國的訂單。這是 24 財年的交付量還是 25 財年的大部分交付量？

Great questions, Jim. Mark, will you address both?

很好的問題，吉姆。馬克，你能解決這兩個問題嗎？

Thanks, Chuck. Jim.

謝謝，查克。吉姆.

Yes, we definitely expect service utilization pick up in the first half of our fiscal year, so over the next six months. As you know, we get a batch of new smartphone releases from various manufacturers typically in the September-October period. And we've certainly got visibility into having expectations that that would drive our service revenue. And the bookings that we mentioned on our new OLED capital equipment, the shipments are in FY '24, so those shipments are within the fiscal year.

是的，我們肯定預計服務利用率將在本財年上半年以及接下來的六個月內回升。如您所知，我們通常會在 9 月至 10 月期間從各個製造商發布一批新的智慧型手機。我們當然已經意識到這將推動我們的服務收入。我們提到的新 OLED 資本設備的預訂，出貨量是在 24 財年，所以這些出貨量是在本財年之內。

Okay.

好的。

But Mark, how does that compare with past investment cycles you've seen in this part of the business?

但是馬克，這與您在這部分業務中看到的過去的投資週期相比如何？

That's a great question. I think it's pretty similar. I mean, we've -- we'd love this business to be more linear. It's not. It tends to be associated with fab buildouts as you know, and we've got a limited number of customers, six to eight major customers split between -- today, it's pretty much split between China and Korea. So I think it's pretty similar. It tends to go in phases. Each phase is typically three to four systems, so you can imagine that the orders that we recently collected were in that sort of range. And we would expect additional phases to be built out as well as, we've mentioned many times in prior calls, an expectation of Generation 8 fab buildouts, especially in China. So yes, we see this as reasonably typical.

這是一個很好的問題。我覺得很相似。我的意思是，我們希望這項業務更加線性。它不是。如您所知，它往往與晶圓廠擴建有關，而且我們的客戶數量有限，主要客戶分佈在六到八個之間 - 今天，它幾乎分佈在中國和韓國之間。所以我認為它非常相似。它往往是分階段進行的。每個階段通常是三到四個系統，因此您可以想像我們最近收集的訂單就在這個範圍內。我們預計將建造更多階段，並且我們在先前的電話會議中多次提到，預計將建造第 8 代晶圓廠，尤其是在中國。所以，是的，我們認為這是相當典型的。

Our next question comes from Tim Savageaux with Northland Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 Northland Capital Markets 的 Tim Savageaux。

A couple of questions here and maybe they're related, which is, specifically, I wanted to focus on trends in the Telecom business from a demand standpoint, and you probably have some inventory issues there as well. But as you look through to end demand, what can you tell us about what's happening there? And kind of related to that, if we look at the September quarter guide going down something on the order of $150 million, if you look across your segments, what are the main kind of drivers there in terms of puts and takes from a sequential standpoint?

這裡有幾個問題，也許它們是相關的，具體來說，我想從需求的角度關注電信業務的趨勢，而且您可能也有一些庫存問題。但是，當您深入了解最終需求時，您能告訴我們有關那裡發生的情況嗎？與此相關的是，如果我們查看9 月份季度的指南，該指南下降了1.5 億美元左右，如果您查看各個細分市場，從順序的角度來看，在看跌期權和索取期權方面的主要驅動因素是什麼？

Okay, thank you, Tim.

好的，謝謝你，提姆。

We had a very strong shipments in communications in the fourth quarter. I think that will be down into the first quarter. I think that's the number-one driver in the change from Q4 to Q1. That accounts for maybe more than half or two-thirds of the variation, and the rest of it is spread across the other markets, or across the other segments and markets.

第四季我們在通訊領域的出貨量非常強勁。我認為這將持續到第一季。我認為這是從第四季到第一季變化的首要驅動因素。這可能解釋了一半以上或三分之二的變化，其餘部分分佈在其他市場或其他細分市場和市場。

What was the second part of your question?

你問題的第二部分是什麼？

I'm with you.

我和你在一起。

So to the point -- to the extent you're talking about Comms being half to two-thirds of the decline, I guess I was trying to get a sense of Telecom versus Datacom there?

因此，就您所說的通訊佔下降的一半到三分之二而言，我想我是想了解電信與數據通訊的差異？

It's a combination, and the moderation that we saw in the March quarter in the Telecom market, that persisted in Q4 and it will leak into -- at least leak into Q1 as well. It's a meaningful part of it.

這是一個組合，以及我們在電信市場三月季度看到的放緩，這種情況在第四季度持續存在，並將滲透到——至少也會滲透到第一季。這是其中有意義的一部分。

Our next question comes from Mike Genovese with Rosenblatt Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自羅森布拉特證券公司的 Mike Genovese。

Just a couple of clarifications at first.

首先需要澄清一些問題。

The second customer, the one that was almost 10%, the Datacom customer. I just want to clarify, that sounds like a webscaler, and I just wanted to ask that. And then the second clarification is, when you talk about transceivers and you're also (inaudible). You're also including cables, active optical cables and electrical cables as transceivers. I just want to check that nomenclature to make sure that cables are, in fact, transceivers in the way you guys talked about it?

第二位客戶，幾乎佔 10%，是 Datacom 客戶。我只是想澄清一下，這聽起來像一個網路縮放器，我只是想問一下。然後第二個澄清是，當您談論收發器時，您也是（聽不清楚）。您還包括電纜、有源光纖電纜和電纜作為收發器。我只是想檢查一下該術語，以確保電纜實際上是您談論的收發器？

Giovanni, why don't you take this?

喬瓦尼，你為什麼不接受這個？

Mike, thanks for the question.

麥克，謝謝你的提問。

Yes, absolutely. Yes. We always include cables, but just to be clear, we have no electrical cables in our portfolio. So it's all optical, but we do include cables, absolutely.

是的，絕對是。是的。我們始終包含電纜，但需要明確的是，我們的產品組合中沒有電纜。所以它都是光學的，但我們絕對包括電纜。

And I think your first question probably was -- I couldn't hear you very well, but I believe you wanted to -- yes, the two-thirds. When I mentioned two-thirds, I was referring to hyperscalers. I think that was your question. So we saw --

我認為你的第一個問題可能是──我聽不清楚，但我相信你想──是的，三分之二。當我提到三分之二時，我指的是超大規模企業。我想這就是你的問題。所以我們看到——

Just want to clarify that question. You said you had two large customers where orders were expected to go down and one is, obviously, the consumer electronics customer. I just wanted to check the second one, the Datacom customer that, that is, in fact, a hyperscaler?

只是想澄清這個問題。您說您有兩個大客戶，預計訂單量會下降，其中一個顯然是消費性電子產品客戶。我只是想檢查第二個客戶，即 Datacom 客戶，實際上是超大規模客戶？

Well, one -- well, electronics was, were the consumer electronics, and the communication was Datacom. It was a large customer for us.

嗯，其中之一——嗯，電子產品是消費性電子產品，而通訊是數據通訊。這對我們來說是一個大客戶。

Okay.

好的。

And then my next question, just my other quick question. It's just that the 200G per lane lasers, when do we expect those to be shipping for revenue within (inaudible) or to external customers?

然後是我的下一個問題，只是我的另一個快速問題。只是每通道 200G 雷射器，我們預計什麼時候才能在內部（聽不清楚）或外部客戶中實現收入？

Well, right now, we are prioritizing our internal customer for anything 200G. And -- but we have design wins with some of our competitors, transceiver competitors. And so we'll -- that will be meaningful only in the second half of the fiscal year.

嗯，現在，我們優先考慮內部客戶購買 200G 的產品。而且，我們在設計上贏得了一些競爭對手，即收發器競爭對手的勝利。所以我們——這只有在本財年下半年才有意義。

Kevin, we're going to wrap the call.

凱文，我們要結束通話了。

Okay.

好的。

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's presentation. We thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect, and have a wonderful day.

女士們、先生們，今天的演講到此結束。我們感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接，並度過美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。