CMS能源 (CMS) 2003 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone and welcome to the CMS Energies first quarter earnings call.

This call is being recorded.

Just as reminder there will be a rebroadcast of this conference today beginning at 1:30 eastern time running through May 15th.

At this time for opening comments and introductions, I would like to turn the call over to Vice President of Investor Relations and Treasurer, Miss Laura Mountcastle.

Please go ahead.

Good morning and thank you for joining us.

With me this morning are Ken Whipple, Dave Joos and Tom Webb.

Before I turn it over to Ken, I will make the usual disclosure.

This presentation contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the safe harbor divisions of the federal security laws.

Our actual results may differ materially from those anticipated in such statements as a result of various factors discussed in our S.E.C. filings.

With that, I'll turn it over to Ken.

Thanks, Laura.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

We're pleased you could join us today for our first quarter earnings call.

This morning, I'm going to review the progress of our back to basics business strategy implemented about a year ago.

We're making good progress with our plan and we wanted to share some of the highlights with you.

After my remarks, I'll turn the call over to Tom Webb to discuss the solid first quarter financial results and our guidance for the full year which is unchanged from our January and April calls.

Tom will also update you on the financing activities that have taken place since our last call on April 1st and he'll review our strong liquidity position as a result of these activities.

Next, Dave Joos will give you an update on recent milestones at our generating plants which continue to perform at a high level.

He'll also cover the status our asset sales program and our important agenda on the regulatory front.

Finally, I'll end up with a report on the status of some of the targets this management team has set and then we'll open it up for your questions as time permits.

The company has made pretty good progress executing its back to basics strategy over the past year.

Over $3.7 billion of asset sales have been completed or announced in 2002 and 2003.

And this of course includes the $1.8 billion associated with Panhandle.

We have completely exited the more volatile oil and gas business and the speculative wholesale marketing and trades businesses and as we continue our asset sales program, we'll be a smaller, stronger organization with less business risk and more predictable earnings.

A top priority is increasing the company's financial flexibility.

In the past year, we've focused hard on improving our cash flow and liquidity.

We have reduced our capital spending nearly 40% from 2001 to 2002.

And will cut another 35% to 40% this year.

We've also made significant savings at the corporate level by consolidating our headquarters in Jackson, Michigan, and through staff reductions.

We've made great strides in improving our liquidity through the $2 billion of financings that have been completed over the past six weeks.

Tom will talk more about this in a minute.

Another important change has been our work to improve our compensation plan.

The revised plan to be announced to our people in the next few days will include all salaried employees, not just the executive management team.

It focuses on the total company and it has only two components.

Cash flow and ongoing earnings.

We think the new plan will directly support shareholder interest and priorities.

Now, Tom will cover the first quarter results in more detail.

Tom, please.

Thanks, Ken.

My welcome to everyone on the call today.

As Ken indicated, we had a solid quarter.

Net income was $79 million, nearly double the reported results last year.

With reported earnings at 51 cents a share, results were 19 cents higher than in the first quarter of 2002.

Ongoing earnings on non-GAAP were $78 million or 50 cents a share.

This excludes profits of 16 cents from discontinued operations like Panhandle, offset in part by accounting changes in a small loss on the sale of assets such as the MS & T gas book.

The accounting changes of about 14 cents primarily reflected option of the new EITF for mark to market accounting on certain derivative contracts.

Compared with 2002, ongoing earnings were down, down about $1 million with shared dilution down about 10 cents per share.

As shown on slide 5, one of the improvements, since the first quarter of 2002, includes favorable weather worth 20 cents per share.

For me, that simply means it was cold and colder than normal for a long time.

In addition, rate relief granted to our gas business last December added 10 cents.

The sharp devaluation of the Argentine peso a year ago was not repeated this year.

This represents the majority of the favorable foreign currency exchange benefit of 25 cents.

These improvements were more than offset in three areas including mark to market gains of 32 cents at MS&T last year that were not repeated this year since we sold the MS&T wholesale books.

Higher cost of 15 cents as well as shared dilution from the plan conversion of preferred stock both last July and this August.

The higher cost primarily reflect good news last year from eliminating a reserve for a bonus not paid in 2001.

We made the decision to eliminate the bonus for 2002 in time to take that good news in the fourth quarter of 2002.

So, bonus related cost savings didn't show up in the first quarter of 2003 as they did last year.

Hopefully good news of this kind won't be necessary in the future.

Plan cost savings around consolidation of our corporate headquarters, healthcare costs, sale of aircraft and other efficiencies funded investment in our operating systems and our safety programs.

Turning to the full year 2003, we're pleased to confirm our earnings guidance at 80 cents to 90 cents per share.

As you can see on slide six, favorable weather and good performance selling surplus power in the first quarter will be offset by higher interest expense during the balance of the year.

You may recall that we added new bank credit agreements at CMS early in April to provide breathing room prior to completing planned asset sales.

This will, however, increase interest expense by about 15 cents a share.

In addition to the new CMS credit agreements shown at the top of this next slide, we've completed over 90% of our financing plan for consumers for 2003.

In March, we completed a six-year term loan for $140 million.

A three-year term loan for $150 million and an extendable revolver up to three years for $250 million.

In April, we issued $625 million of first mortgage bonds.

Originally we planned to issue $500 million but strong demand permitted us to increase the size by 25%, which spreads over treasures at 135 basis points for the five-year bonds and 145 for the ten-year bonds.

These were the lowest interest rates we've seen for this kind of a bond in over 40 years.

This enabled us to replace shorter term maturities with longer term lower cost debt.

Now, turning back to the CMS parent, on the next slide, new credit facilities shown in green, provide sufficient capacity to meet debt maturities that are shown in orange through October of next year.

This gives us considerable breathing room as we execute asset sales.

As shown in the left box on this next slide, we plan to increase our CMS cash balance from $132 million last year to $400 million by the end of 2003.

This is $50 million better than the level we shared with you last month.

We may use a portion of this cash to reduce debt if conditions are favorable.

Asset sales should provide cash proceeds of about $900 million and additional debt reductions of another $1.2 billion associated with the sale of Panhandle.

As shown in the right box, on the same slide, the operating and financing plans that consumers provide for interest and preferred dividend obligations of $289 million, capital expenditures of $515 million which is 26% down from last year, dividends and cash sharing to CMS of $226 million and a pension contribution of $154 million.

This provides liquidity for consumers deep into 2004.

Although these plans increase our debt at consumers by approximately $500 million, we plan to reduce our consolidated debt by $1.1 billion, improving our debt-to-capital ratio from 78% last year to 74% by the end of 2003.

If, however, we lower our debt with our surplus cash, we could reduce our debt further to $5.6 billion with a 72% debt to capital.

This still is too high but it is an important step toward re-establishing a suitable capital structure.

With that, let me turn the call over to Dave Joos for the operational update.

Thank you, Tom.

Good morning.

As I have in the past, I'll take just a few minutes to update you on operational issues, including recent performance of our generating fleet, progress on our asset sales program, and an update on our state regulatory agenda.

First, a few highlights regarding our utility generating plea.

The Palisades Nuclear Plant operated by the Nuclear Management Company returned to full power operation April 26th after completing a scheduled refueling and maintenance outage in 35 days which was the shortest in the plant's 33-year history.

The plant is operating well with no issues of concern and is scheduled to operate continuously until the next refueling outage in the autumn of 2004.

Notably as I mentioned in our last call, part of the scope of the recent outage was a complete visual inspection of the reactor vessel ahead.

We're pleased that no issues or concerns resulted from that inspection.

We're also pleased that we got a clean bill of health from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in our most recent regulatory evaluation.

Overall, our nuclear program is in good shape.

Another accomplishment worth mentioning is the record 305-day continuous run at our Wettick 7 unit that ended April 25th when the plant was taken off-line for a scheduled boiler inspection.

This 48-year-old, 155 megawatt coal-fired unit exceeded its previous all-time continuous run record by nearly 30%.

Also, we initiated operation of the nitrous oxide removal unit at our Carn plant in late April.

This key element of our clean air compliance strategy is meeting its design nitrous oxide removal performance was completed ahead of schedule and began accruing early reduction credits on May 1st.

This is the first of four catalytic reduction units we'll be installing in our Carn and Campbell generating stations over the next several years.

This slide shows our planned asset sales for 2003 and our progress to date which is on track.

The check marks denote those sales that have closed, totaling $100 million in gross sale proceeds here to date.

And the asterisks denote those for which agreements for the sale have been signed but have not yet closed.

The sale of Guardian Pipeline is expected to close yet this month.

The Panhandle sale has received the required state regulatory approvals for Massachusetts and Missouri, and is awaiting approval from the Federal Trade Commission.

While it is difficult to predict precisely when it will be received, we continue to be optimistic that the sale will close in the second quarter.

I won't be providing any specifics with respect to the sale of our field services business or the asset sales plans of the second half of this year but I will tell you that progress is being made on all of them.

Not shown is the potential sale of our interest in the Loy Yang plant in Australia which could occur this year.

It has been widely reported there are a number of parties interested in the facility.

However, we do have confidentiality agreements with potential purchasers so I won't comment on the rumors.

Stay tuned.

Our state regulatory agenda which I discussed in fair amount of detail in our last call, is proceeding generally as expected.

Though obviously the outcome is still uncertain.

The next important milestone is June 2nd when the Michigan Public Service Commission under the state law, is required to issue an order with respect to our request for authorization to issue up to $1.1 billion of securitization bonds.

Briefs have been filed by all parties and reply briefs are due next week.

The schedule for the hearing process for our gas rate case has been set.

It would provide for a decision on interim relief toward the end of the third quarter this year or early in the fourth and an order on final relief in the first quarter of 2004.

Staff and intervener testimony with respect to our request for interim relief is due on August 8th.

There's really nothing specific to report on a stranded cost issue except to say that the collaborative effort, the MPSC suggested in its December order, led by the staff and involving utilities customers, third party suppliers and others is ongoing.

It is really too early to tell whether that process will lead to a favorable solution to strand (INAUDIBLE) recovery.

As an update, we're currently serving about 550 megawatts of peak open access load or about 9.5% of our total commercial industrial load.

Compared with about 475 megawatts at the end of 2002.

This is actually a little less than we had built into our 2003 plan.

There are no residential customers participating in the program.

In anticipation of a question, let me clarify that the reason for the large spread in our 2002 stranded cost filing, $35 million to $103 million, is the uncertainty as to whether the commission will include Clean Air Act related costs in the stranded cost calculation or deal with them in another way such as through securitization.

Now, let me turn it back over to Ken for a brief summary of our financial performance before we take questions.

Ken?

Thank you, Dave.

Let's conclude with the report card.

As part of this management team's commitment to our share owners, we've established some specific goals that we believe are important bench marks to measure our progress.

It is our plan to report on progress on these targets in future calls.

Looking just for a minute at the status column, the information of last year's earnings and the financial restatements are self-explanatory.

The full year audits are behind us.

I know I reported this to you last time but I just like saying it.

For the rest of the report card, the green arrows mean we're on track.

If anything, I was tempted to show the asset sales column as maybe lighter green than the others because our history shows that the exact timing on asset sales is tough to predict.

But as Tom showed you, our forecast remains at $900 million there.

And with that, that completes our formal review.

Now, we would be happy to take your questions.

Thank you very much, Mr. Whipple.

The question and answer session will be conducted electronically.

If you would like to ask a question, please do so by pressing the star key followed by the digit 1 on your touch tone telephone.

If ou're using a speaker function, please make sure your meet signal is turned off.

We'll proceed in the order you signal us and we'll take as many questions as time permits.

Please press star 1 on your touch tone telephone to ask a question.

If you do find that your question has been answered you may remove yourself by pressing the pound key.

We'll pause for just a second.

Our first question today will come from Carrie Stevens with Morgan Stanley.

Hi, Carrie.

I just wanted to talk through the currency gain in the first quarter.

Was that always expected as kind of when you were putting through your initial EPS guidance for the year?

Were you kind of taking into account or I'm just trying to get an idea of that.

Carrie, yes, we did, because the bulk of that is really the devaluation of the peso that occurred in the first quarter of last year.

So, for in absolute terms, the projections aren't far off where we expect the currencies to be.

What you're seeing in this year to year comparison is the change last year rather than anything different in our predictions for this year.

So, yes, that's accounted for.

Ok.

Then, you said that weather was 20 cents positive but relative to normal, it looked like it was about 9 cents, is that correct?

That's right.

Ok.

Lastly, for Ken, it has been about a year since you took the role as interim CEO.

I was curious if there's any update on when a more permanent CEO is expected to be named.

Not really, Carrie.

Although I continue to erase the interim from the name.

We're all interim in a way.

No, I was hired by the Board to put together this team and to help lead it to turn the company around and I've spent all of my time doing that.

I have conversations with the Board periodically on what to do next and they'll let me know when that changes.

There's not an ongoing search for a new CEO at this point?

There's nothing different at the moment.

Ok.

Thank you.

Next we'll hear from David Silverstein with Merrill Lynch.

Hi, David.

Hi.

Just to get an update here on the liquidity for '04.

I know that you've improved your target for the end of '03 largely because of the upsized bank transaction here.

That did you.

In '03.

If you could give us an update in '04 in terms of where you see things coming out as you're faced with maturities in October, November of next year.

And how you are dressed to do that.

We're actually not predicting our cash flow out through 2004 but we are giving the guidance that you've seen in terms of what the financings have done that permit us to really cover the maturities that are coming due deep into 2004 both at consumers and CMS parent.

We're glad to have done that particularly consumers at interest rate levels that have permitted us to replace debt with lower cost borrowings so that's pretty positive on our part.

We feel pretty good about 2004 but we're not giving a lot more guidance on that at this time.

Ok, assuming Panhandle gets done and you've paid off the two of the charges here in the new credit facility, what do you have in terms of room under your indenture?

In terms of securing additional debt?

Prince, you have -- for instance, you have the trust that comes due in October but then you have a bond that comes due in November next year that is insecure.

So absent any additional asset sales what capacity - where does your basket pro forma stand in terms of providing security?

Well, the key thing here is that we've got the flexibility with our financing plans to meet all of our requirements, again, deep into 2004.

And that basket you're describing will all change as we go through time with a different financings that we're putting into place.

After the Panhandle sale, we'll have over about $400 million.

Of a basket.

That's right.

Ok.

So, that basically gives you room if you include the existing charge that matures in October plus the 180 that comes due in November.

Then just as a quick note, how many medium term notes again maturing in '03 and '04?

It is a total of -- it was a total of $105 million in '03.

And I think there's about $75 million left of that and '04 off the top of my head, it is about $100 million.

I don't have exact number here.

Ok.

That is actually public information that we can get for you.

Yeah.

It is hard to add up all of the thousands of issues that are out there.

Sure, you bet.

Thank you very much.

We'll hear from Devin Geohegan with Luminous Management.

Thanks for the time today.

Congratulations on a good quarter.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Just curious, just sort of looking at different coal producers and I don't know if you can answer for me, how much of the 20 cent gain or really the 9 cent gain is due to increased capacity factor versus increased power prices for gas?

Can you ask that question again?

One thing that I've -- some other guys in the Midwest, their capacity factors on coal have increased in the order of 20% for the first quarter.

And combined with increased power sales in terms of absolute price due to the gas.

So, just trying to sort of find out how much of the 9 cent, if you want to do it above the theoretical norm is due to increased capacity factors on your coal plants versus simple prices.

This is Dave Joos.

I certainly can't give you a definitive quantitative answer to that question simply because I don't have the information in front of me.

We did have strong performance from our generating fleet in the first quarter and we're able to make some significant sales from that generating fleet that did contribute to that upside beyond just the sales to our domestic or to our retail customers.

So, your coal plants are definitely running more than let's say first quarter of last year?

Yes, but remember that everybody has typically outage schedules in spring and the fall.

We had some scheduled planned outages as well but our plants did run very consistent with our schedules and did run well during the first quarter and we did make some asset or some power sales into the wholesale market at favorable prices.

Great.

That makes sense.

Second question, I thought I remember reading in one of the MCV releases that they had a $10.3 million marked market gain on their contracts.

Can you tell me how much of that flowed through to you guys?

Well, we are 49% equity owners in that facility so that's what does flow through.

I would say that when we do our calculations for GAAP income, that would show up.

When we do our calculations for ongoing income, we normalize that out because ultimately, at the MCV, is the expectation that that gas does get burned.

It is simply the mark to market of the contracts that have some variability in them that's reflected in that number.

That makes sense.

So, just on the GAAP numbers that were on, the releases you put, those included roughly $5 million.

Roughly half, yes.

I appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

Sure.

As a reminder to our audience today, if you would like to make a comment or if you have a question, please press star 1 at this time.

We'll hear from Jeff Gilchristly from Ardous Capital.

Hi, good morning.

Good quarter.

I wondered if maybe Dave could update -- I know the securitization order is on June 2nd but could you just go over sort of where we stand now and after that order comes out, what sort of time frame will we see as far as getting the bonds out.

Well, a couple of things.

It is always difficult to predict what the Public Service Commission will ultimately do with that order and there is lots of different views from the various intervening parties.

Probably most notably, the staff's position was generally supportive of the calculations that we did to demonstrate the qualification of the various aspects of our order.

They didn't come out with a specific recommendation, for example, on the pension issue.

They left that for the commission because it is a bit of a policy issue in that it is an innovative approach to dealing with a pension funding issue.

They did recommend that the commission not include a few things in the calculations that probably the most notable being the 2003 forecast capital associated with both Clean Air Act and our Palisades Nuclear Plant and also some of the historic return on investment associated with the clean air act that's really the largest element that I've talked about when I refer to whether or not the commission deals with those costs in the stranded cost calculation or elsewhere.

So, in total, I would say the staff was generally supportive of a fair amount of our filing but not all and some of it they simply noted that they would qualify but would leave it to the commission to make policy decisions.

With regard to the timing, of course, the issue after the commission comes out with its order on June 2nd will largely be whether or not there are any parties in the case that choose to pursue an appeal.

Because that really has to be resolved before reasonable to go out into the bond market.

If we don't see any appeals or somehow they get resolved very quickly, we would expect to be into that market late in the third or early in the fourth quarter if there are appeals, it is really unpredictable as to how long it might take to resolve them.

Ok.

That's very helpful.

So, it looks like now that the staff is sort of aiming at the midpoint of what you asked for, is that correct - is that a correct read on it?

I don't know that they're aiming at anything specifically because they really did deal with it on an issue by issue basis and I think largely what they did is analyze for the commission the various issues.

I think on the upside, they suggested to the commission that as the calculations, the calculation that law requires to determine whether or not these are qualifying costs, they were largely supportive of what the utility filed.

Ok.

And any light on how that is factored into your calculations for the year both income and balance sheet?

I think at this point in time, we don't reflect in our projections the securitization from a rating agency perspective, obviously, if we are successful, that would contribute to further improvement in reducing our debt ratio on the balance sheet.

Great.

And lastly, just to clarify, the 25 cents due to currency improvement, that's in the ongoing earnings from the quarter, correct?

Yeah, and remember to think about that as really the devaluation that occurred last year for a comparative purpose.

So, what you're seeing in that change has no effect on our guidance of 80 to 90 cents and no substantial effect on the absolute projection for the quarter.

Just the comparative purpose.

Ok.

But it is the 50 cent ongoing number that is for you, comparable to your guidance.

That's correct.

Ok.

Thank you very much.

Just for clarity, what we're saying is that the 25 cent impact from the currency devaluation is really the absence of the bad news that occurred last year.

As opposed to something that's a large contributor to this year's earnings.

But it would be so -- in order to make the 80 cents, you only need another 30 cents of ongoing earnings.

Right.

Exactly right.

Ok.

Thank you.

Phyllis Gray with Dwight Asset Management has our next question.

Good morning.

Good morning.

How are you today?

Good, how are you?

Fine, thanks.

Could you let me know what your depreciation for the quarter was, please?

We sure can.

Hang on one second here.

Depreciation for the quarter was $126 million.

And interest expense?

And interest expense -- and this will have the preferred dividends in it, $119 million.

Interest only is $101 million.

I'm sorry.

Next question?

The cash from operations, how much of that related to working capital changes?

Hold on.

We'll add them up.

Do a little calculation here for you in just a second.

Thank you.

While they're doing that calculation, I will just make a correction.

For 2004, the medium term notes or general term notes as we call them, they're at $48 million mature and not $100 as I previously said.

Change in working capital was $162 million.

Thank you very much.

Ok.

Once again, if you would like to ask a question today, please press star 1 at this time.

Our next question will come from Vladimir Jelasavik with Long Acre Management.

Good morning.

Vladimir?

Your line is open for your question, Vladimir.

Maybe we should go on to the next question.

Our next question is from Paul Ridzon with McDonald Investments.

Good morning.

You indicated most of the 25 cent 4 X swing was related to the roll-off of devaluation.

How much of the 25 cents?

Is it basically all of it?

I believe it is about 22 cents.

Ok.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

As a final reminder today, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 at this time.

We do have that question from Vladimir Jelasavik with Long Acre Management.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Just wanted to ask a couple of questions.

The slide passed rather quickly on your sources and uses.

Could you just please go over for CMS energy parent what the sources and uses were.

I didn't have a chance to jot down all of those numbers.

That should be available on the web site.

It was.

I saw it.

I'll talk to you off-line if it is printable but I didn't, I couldn't figure out how to print it.

Ok.

Listen, we're happy to take you through that and again, you should find it on the web site.

Again, we're happy to take further questions later and I believe we have it backed up on the web site right now.

Ok, perfect.

Another question I had.

Can you give us some explanation as to why the -- if I jotted it down correctly, why the dividends from consumers, the projection went down from 241 to 226 if I wrote the numbers down correctly in light of the fact of higher earnings and cash flows at the utility in the first quarter of '03.

Right.

What you see on the slide is interest and preferred dividends of $289 million and a portion is an update on the tax sharing which would be one of the differences you might have seen from the prior slide if you're referring back to some prior information.

Let me make sure I understand your question.

I'm sorry.

I can't pull the slide up in front of me right now.

But what are you projecting for 2003 for dividends from consumers energy?

Ok.

What is the dividend number? 189?

Hold on.

We'll give that to you.

Ok.

Out of that number, the dividend only is about $190 million.

Uh-huh.

Ok?

And so -- what's the total dividend tax sharing number?

Was it $226?

Yes.

Ok, so the tax sharing is 36 and the number -- I think at your prior disclosure was 241 so my question was why did the combined dividend tax sharing projected number for the full year '03 decline given the fact you had pretty solid numbers for the first quarter of '03?

Just a revision in the tax sharing calculation.

That's all it is.

So, the 241, the component between tax sharing and dividends would have been the same 190 dividends but the tax sharing went from 51 down to 36, is that what you're saying?

That's right.

It is just that tax sharing reduction.

Ok.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Steve Valentine with Valentine Capital has our next question.

Just a quick question on the press release.

It says improvements in earnings were offset by 33 cents per share of '02 savings not repeated in '03.

I wanted clarification on what those were.

Sure, Steve.

Hold on just a second.

Where were you on that?

It is the front page of the press release.

It talks about 10 cent decrease in ongoing earnings compared with '02 came despite stronger utility earnings and the favorable exchange rate you've already mentioned.

These improvement were more than offset by 33 cents per share of '02 savings not repeated in '03.

Right.

That, in part, is a mixture of the shared dilution which would have occur and is worth about 9 cents and then part of that is what we have called cost.

But recall that a big element of that cost that adverse cost changes because of the bonus reserve.

So, really, get some good news that occurred back in the first quarter of last year that we weren't repeating this year.

Ok.

Thanks.

Does that help you?

Uh-huh.

Thanks.

I think we have time for one more question.

That last question today will come as a follow-up from Paul Ridzon with McDonald Investments.

I know you have confidentiality agreements signed but is there a time line we can look for for something out of Loy Yang?

We've been in the process of looking to sell Loy Yang for some time, as you know.

And there have been a number of interested parties.

It has been a bit of a complex process because there are three partners and obviously a number of different kinds of interests.

So, I can't predict and wouldn't want to predict anything specific at this point in time.

I would simply say that there is a lot of ongoing interest and maybe differently than a year or so ago, all of the partners I think are aligned on the interest in selling the assets so I'm optimistic.

Could you share with us how many confidentiality agreements you have?

No, I don't think I would do that.

But like I said, there are a number of parties who have expressed interest starting as much as a year or two ago and new parties actually have been popping up on occasion here this year.

Ok, thank you.

Thank you.

And thanks once again, ladies and gentlemen, for your always good questions.

We're making good progress with this company but we know we have a long way to go.

As we continue to move to a smaller, more focused, more predictable company, we'll look forward to keeping you updated on the goals that we've covered today.

We'll do some more of that in our next call on second quarter results.

Thanks and good-bye for now.

That does conclude today's conference.

We thank everyone for your participation today and have a great day.