Cimpress PLC (CMPR) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Cimpress Quarter for Fiscal Year 2023 Earnings Call. I'd like to introduce Meredith Burns, Vice President of Investor Relations and Sustainability.

歡迎參加 Cimpress 季度 2023 財年財報電話會議。我想介紹一下投資者關係和永續發展副總裁梅雷迪思·伯恩斯 (Meredith Burns)。

Thank you, Abigail, and thank you, everyone, for joining us. With us today are Robert Keane, our Founder, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Sean Quinn, EVP and Chief Financial Officer. I hope you've all had a chance to read our earnings document and our annual letter to investors, both published yesterday. .

謝謝你，阿比蓋爾，也謝謝大家加入我們。今天與我們在一起的有我們的創始人、董事長兼首席執行官羅伯特·基恩 (Robert Keane)；執行副總裁兼財務長 Sean Quinn。我希望你們都有機會閱讀我們昨天發布的收益文件和給投資者的年度信函。 。

We appreciate the time you have dedicated to understand our results, commentary and outlook. This live Q&A session will last 45 minutes to an hour, and we'll answer both presubmitted and live questions. You can submit questions live via the questions and answers box at the bottom left of your screen.

我們感謝您花時間了解我們的結果、評論和前景。本次現場問答環節將持續 45 分鐘到一個小時，我們將回答預先提交的問題和現場問題。您可以透過螢幕左下角的問題與解答框即時提交問題。

Before we start, I'll note that in this session, we will make statements about the future. Our actual results may differ materially from these statements due to risk factors that are outlined in detail in our SEC filings and in the documents we published yesterday on our website. We also have published non-GAAP reconciliations for our financial results and outlook on our IR website. We invite you to read them. And now I will turn things over to Sean for some brief remarks before we take questions. Sean?

在我們開始之前，我要指出的是，在本次會議上，我們將就未來發表聲明。由於我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件以及我們昨天在網站上發布的文件中詳細概述的風險因素，我們的實際結果可能與這些聲明有重大差異。我們也在 IR 網站上發布了我們的財務表現和展望的非 GAAP 調整表。我們邀請您閱讀它們。現在，在我們回答問題之前，我將把事情轉交給肖恩，讓他做一些簡短的評論。肖恩？

If we have lost Sean, I will give him a few more moments. This is Robert speaking. I'd be happy to jump in.

如果我們失去了肖恩，我會給他多一點時間。這是羅伯特。我很樂意跳進去。

Absolutely, Robert, why don't you go for it?

當然可以，羅伯特，你為什麼不去嘗試呢？

Okay. Apologies for the technical glitch everyone. So thank you, I'm Robert Keane, CEO. And let me just start by saying, as I said in the letter, we had a strong finish to FY '23. We delivered results that were meaningfully above the profitability and net leverage guidance, we provided last quarter. I think this outperformance was largely driven at Vista and our Upload and Print businesses. Our revenues on a consolidated basis grew 9% in organic constant currency or even as our Upload and Print businesses, we're lapping price increases and nearly 50% organic constant currency growth last year in Q4. So it was a tough comp, and we still grew the 9% constant currency.

好的。對於技術故障大家表示歉意。謝謝你，我是執行長羅伯特·基恩。首先我要說的是，正如我在信中所說，我們在 23 財年取得了出色的成績。我們交付的業績明顯高於上季提供的獲利能力和淨槓桿率指引。我認為這種優異表現主要是由 Vista 以及我們的上傳和列印業務所推動的。我們的綜合收入以固定匯率有機增長了 9%，甚至在我們的上傳和列印業務中，我們去年第四季度的價格上漲和按固定匯率計算近 50% 的有機增長。所以這是一個艱難的競爭，我們仍然以 9% 的固定匯率成長。

Consolidated growth profit -- gross profit, excuse me, grew 11%, excluding the impact of currency. And that paints a very different picture compared to last year when we had a sizable gross margin contraction given the impact of cost inflation. Consolidated adjusted EBITDA grew $76 million year-over-year to $114 million, which represents an increase of about 200% or over 200%. We mentioned this in yesterday's release, but to put this in perspective, the last 2 quarters, our trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA increased by $112 million to end fiscal year '23 with adjusted EBITDA of $340 million. And importantly, this improvement includes one full fiscal quarter of benefit from the $100 million of annualized cost reductions we've implemented. And with just one quarter, we see a lot of those opportunities ahead of us in cost reduction.

綜合成長利潤－毛利成長了 11%，排除了匯率的影響。與去年相比，這描繪了一幅截然不同的景象，去年，由於成本通膨的影響，我們的毛利率大幅收縮。合併調整後 EBITDA 年增 7,600 萬美元，達到 1.14 億美元，增幅約 200% 或超過 200%。我們在昨天的新聞稿中提到了這一點，但從長遠來看，在過去2 個季度中，我們過去12 個月的調整後EBITDA 增加了1.12 億美元，到23 財年結束時調整後EBITDA 為3.4 億美元。重要的是，這項改進包括我們實施的 1 億美元年度成本削減讓整個財政季度受益。僅用一個季度，我們就看到了許多降低成本的機會。

Adjusted free cash flow did decline year-over-year despite our higher adjusted EBITDA and this was due to restructuring payments this year connected to the cost reductions as well as working capital timing differences. Q4 last year was very favorable in terms of working capital. I'm not going to go through all of the segments. But given the significance of the profitability expansion in Vista, let me share some of the highlights there. This is revenue grew 12% on an organic constant currency basis with a nice balance across regions and across our core product categories. This quarter's growth was supported by better pricing and also strong growth in new customers and new customer bookings.

儘管我們調整後的 EBITDA 較高，但調整後的自由現金流確實同比下降，這是由於今年與成本削減相關的重組付款以及營運資金時間差異。去年第四季的營運資金非常有利。我不會詳細介紹所有部分。但考慮到 Vista 獲利能力擴張的重要性，讓我分享其中的一些亮點。以有機固定匯率計算，收入增長了 12%，跨地區和跨核心產品類別實現了良好的平衡。本季的成長得益於更好的定價以及新客戶和新客戶預訂的強勁成長。

Vista's segment EBITDA grew $66 million year-over-year, which was by far the biggest contributor to our consolidated Cimpress adjusted EBITDA growth and the profitability expansion in Vista was very well balanced with about 1/3 coming from gross profit, 1/3 coming from advertising efficiency and 1/3 from lower operating costs. We ended the quarter with cash and marketable securities of $173 million, and that's after having spent $45 million to repurchase $52 million of notional value in our high-yield bonds during the quarter. As we've talked about in recent calls from a balance sheet perspective, we have been prioritizing liquidity, and we were able to continue to do that while allocating significant capital to these higher returns, which also helped support targeted reductions in net leverage.

Vista 的部門 EBITDA 同比增長 6,600 萬美元，這是迄今為止我們綜合 Cimpress 調整後 EBITDA 增長的最大貢獻者，Vista 的盈利能力擴張非常平衡，約 1/3 來自毛利，1/3 來自毛利。1 /3 來自廣告效率，1/3 來自較低的營運成本。本季結束時，我們的現金和有價證券為 1.73 億美元，這是在本季度花費 4,500 萬美元回購名義價值 5,200 萬美元的高收益債券之後。正如我們在最近的電話會議中從資產負債表的角度談到的那樣，我們一直優先考慮流動性，並且我們能夠繼續這樣做，同時將大量資本分配給這些更高的回報，這也有助於支持針對性地降低淨槓桿率。

We ended the fiscal year at a net leverage of 3.9x EBITDA as defined by our credit agreement. This was ahead of our guidance or better than our guidance of being below 4.5x, which we provided last quarter. And just 2 quarters ago, our net leverage was 5.52x we think our ability to delever this quickly demonstrates the underlying profit and cash flow characteristics of our business model.

本財政年度結束時，我們的淨槓桿比率為信用協議規定的 3.9 倍 EBITDA。這超出了我們的指導，或比我們上個季度提供的低於 4.5 倍的指導。就在兩個季度前，我們的淨槓桿率為 5.52 倍，我們認為我們快速去槓桿化的能力證明了我們業務模式的基本利潤和現金流特徵。

Moving to our outlook. Given our strong Q4 performance, we are raising our FY '24 adjusted EBITDA guidance to be at least $420 million, and we continue to expect to convert free cash flow at about 40% of EBITDA. We also introduced organic constant currency revenue guidance of at least 6%, which reflects the lapping of the price increases we had last year.

轉向我們的展望。鑑於我們第四季度的強勁表現，我們將 24 財年調整後 EBITDA 指引提高至至少 4.2 億美元，我們繼續預期自由現金流將達到 EBITDA 的 40% 左右。我們還引入了至少 6% 的有機固定貨幣收入指引，這反映了我們去年價格上漲的情況。

The cost reduction actions that we communicated in March drove $24 million of improvement in FY '23, that's slightly ahead of what we had previously outlined, and we expect they'll drive another $76 million of incremental year-over-year fiscal year benefit in FY '24. We now expect to bring net leverage to below 3.25x by the end of fiscal '24, which is also ahead of the guidance we provided last quarter given our raised EBITDA and the resulting cash flow guidance for FY '24.

我們在 3 月傳達的成本削減行動在 23 財年帶來了 2400 萬美元的改善，這略高於我們之前概述的，我們預計它們將在 2023 財年再帶來 7600 萬美元的同比增量收益24 財年。我們現在預計到 24 財年末將淨槓桿率降至 3.25 倍以下，考慮到我們提高的 EBITDA 以及由此產生的 24 財年現金流量指引，這也高於我們上季度提供的指引。

And finally, I'd point out that I'd encourage you to read the annual letter, which we sent, which I send every year, when we step back from the quarter and the financials to assess our strategic performance, our capital allocation and to estimate our steady-state free cash flow, consistent with the direction you see in our reported financial results, you'll also see that our estimates of steady-state free cash flow have also increased, and I'd encourage you to read that letter for more details. Now a lot has changed from a year ago, and we see that very positively reflected in our Q4 results. But importantly, just in the tone and tenor of the teams and the operational focus of the teams, which we think bodes well for the coming year. With that, Meredith, we'll open for questions, just check if we were able to get Sean back on the line.

最後，我想指出，我鼓勵您閱讀我們發送的年度信函，我每年都會發送這封信，當我們從季度和財務數據中退一步來評估我們的戰略績效、資本配置和為了估計我們的穩態自由現金流，與您在我們報告的財務結果中看到的方向一致，您還會發現我們對穩態自由現金流的估計也有所增加，我鼓勵您閱讀來信以了解更多詳情。現在與一年前相比發生了很多變化，我們看到這在我們第四季度的業績中得到了非常積極的反映。但重要的是，就團隊的基調和基調以及團隊的營運重點而言，我們認為這對來年來說是個好兆頭。梅雷迪思，接下來我們將開放提問，只是檢查我們是否能夠讓肖恩重新接通電話。

We have been able to get Sean back on the line. So I think we are good for questions. So as a reminder to folks that are on the call, you can submit questions using the questions in the answers box at the bottom left of your screen. We also have received a number of presubmitted questions. There were some overlapping areas, so I'm going to use some representative questions so that we can get all of the topics that are on everybody's mind out on the call.

我們已經讓肖恩重新上線了。所以我認為我們很適合問問題。因此，為了提醒正在通話的人員，您可以使用螢幕左下角答案框中的問題提交問題。我們也收到了一些預先提交的問題。有一些重疊的領域，所以我將使用一些代表性的問題，以便我們能夠在電話會議中了解每個人都在考慮的所有主題。

So we're going to go to the first question that I am going to throw over to Sean. And this is what specifically drove the outperformance in Q4 versus the previously communicated expectations for Vista and Upload and Print?

我們將討論我要向肖恩提出的第一個問題。這就是第四季表現優於先前傳達的 Vista 和上傳和列印預期的具體原因嗎？

Yes, I'll take that, Meredith. Let me just make sure you can hear me, right?

是的，我會接受的，梅雷迪思。讓我確保你能聽到我的聲音，對嗎？

I can hear you.

我可以聽見你。

Okay. And my apologies to everyone might audio cut out a very inopportune time. So yes, in terms of the outperformance for Q4, most of the overperformance was in Vista and the finish -- the quarter there finished strong relative to what we were expecting. And in terms of where that overperformance was, really, it was slightly better throughout the entire P&L. Revenue growth was a little bit higher. Gross margins were a little bit higher, ad spend a little bit lower. And then we also had some additional operating cost savings from the recent cost actions. So -- and part of that is just some delay in backfilling roles and so on. So that was a little bit more favorable than we had expected as well.

好的。我向大家致歉，音頻可能會在非常不合時宜的時間被剪掉。所以，是的，就第四季的優異表現而言，大部分優異表現是在 Vista 和結尾處——該季度的結尾相對於我們的預期表現強勁。就超額表現而言，實際上，整個損益表略好一些。收入成長略高一些。毛利率略高，廣告支出略低。此外，我們也透過最近的成本行動節省了一些額外的營運成本。所以——其中一部分只是崗位填補上的一些延遲等等。所以這也比我們預期的要有利一些。

I should also mention Upload and Print though, that was part of the overperformance as well. And that one in the Print Group segment was really concentrated on gross margins in terms of overperformance. And then the PrintBrothers segment was on higher revenue.

我還應該提到上傳和列印，這也是超性能的一部分。印刷集團部門的業務真正集中在超額業績方面的毛利率。然後 PrintBrothers 部門的收入更高。

Excellent. Thank you so much, Sean. I'm going to stick with you for the next question. And this is about gross margins in Vista. So gross margins in Vista were still down slightly year-over-year as we showed the growth for revenue that was slightly higher than the growth for gross margin in Vista, why haven't they increased if pricing improved throughout the year?

出色的。非常感謝你，肖恩。我將繼續回答你的下一個問題。這是關於 Vista 的毛利率。因此，Vista 的毛利率仍比去年同期略有下降，因為我們顯示收入成長略高於 Vista 的毛利率成長，如果全年定價改善，為什麼毛利率沒有增加？

Yes. Very fair question. And just to put this in perspective, on a consolidated basis, we had gross margin expansion. But as we report gross margins in Vista we did not, although they were up sequentially from Q3. In the last year quarter, so Q4 of FY '22, we had a benefit of a little under $8 million in gross profit from the gain on the sale of land that was attached to a manufacturing asset. And so that's why it was in gross profit.

是的。非常公平的問題。從長遠來看，在合併的基礎上，我們的毛利率有所成長。但當我們報告 Vista 的毛利率時，我們並沒有這麼做，儘管它們比第三季連續上升。在去年的第四季度，也就是 22 財年的第四季度，我們從出售製造資產附屬土地的收益中獲得了略低於 800 萬美元的毛利。這就是為什麼它是毛利的原因。

If you were to exclude that benefit last year, Vista's gross margins actually did increase over last year. And just to be clear, that gain is also excluded from EBITDA as well. But if you exclude that, business gross margin sort of in real terms, did expand about 170 basis points versus Q4 last year.

如果排除去年的這項收益，Vista 的毛利率實際上比去年有所增加。需要明確的是，該收益也不包含在 EBITDA 中。但如果排除這一點，實際業務毛利率確實比去年第四季成長了約 170 個基點。

We had pricing benefits throughout the year as we've been talking about, and you see reflected in the Q4 results. We also had costs that continue to increase, especially in the first half of the year versus last year. And it's only been recently in the last months that we've seen that cost pressure subside and then the start of cost favorability, but that really -- that favorability really didn't have any material impact on Q4.

正如我們一直在談論的那樣，我們全年都享有定價優勢，您可以在第四季度的業績中看到這一點。我們的成本也持續增加，特別是與去年相比，今年上半年。直到最近幾個月，我們才看到成本壓力消退，然後開始出現成本優惠，但實際上，這種優惠確實對第四季沒有任何實質影響。

There's more opportunity there as we get into FY '24, but definitely a favorable result seeing year-over-year gross margin expansion [will] still, as we go forward, and this is the case in Q4 to have some headwind from the areas of the Vista business that are growing the fastest from a category perspective and specifically in our promotional products category. There's a lot of other good things coming from that, but that is a little bit of a headwind that we had in Q4, and we'll continue to have as we get into next year as well.

當我們進入 24 財年時，那裡有更多的機會，但隨著我們的前進，毛利率仍然會同比增長，這肯定是一個有利的結果，第四季度的情況就是來自這些領域的一些阻力從類別角度來看，特別是在我們的促銷產品類別中，Vista 業務成長最快。由此還有很多其他好處，但這是我們在第四季遇到的一點逆風，進入明年我們也將繼續遇到這種情況。

Great. Thank you so much, Sean. Robert, I'm going to ask you a couple of questions that we got on the annual letter. So the first question. So on Page 6 of the shareholder letter, you mentioned growth investments for FY '24 are likely to be similar to the roughly $109 million that we spent in FY '23, is it safe to assume that the investments by business will be roughly the same?

偉大的。非常感謝你，肖恩。羅伯特，我要問你我們在年度信件中收到的幾個問題。那麼第一個問題。因此，在股東信的第 6 頁上，您提到 24 財年的成長投資可能與我們在 23 財年花費的約 1.09 億美元類似，是否可以安全地假設企業的投資將大致相同？

Yes. That's correct.

是的。這是正確的。

All right. And then next follow-on question in this category. Within Vista, the investment areas have shifted over time with LTV-based advertising and product development and marketing, making up most of the investment activity recently. Are the investments you're underwriting today higher or lower than the ROI you thought you were getting a few years ago?

好的。然後是該類別中的下一個後續問題。在 Vista 中，投資領域隨著時間的推移發生了變化，基於 LTV 的廣告以及產品開發和行銷構成了最近的大部分投資活動。您今天承保的投資是高於還是低於您幾年前認為獲得的投資報酬率？

I think they can be higher for different reasons. So let me break the components you mentioned up into the 2 different components. So first of all, the lifetime value-based advertising is simply us recognizing that a portion of the advertising spend takes longer to pay back than a year, but it is really instrumental in moving our brand perception and it also allows us to spend lower in -- spend less in lower funnel channels. So they really go together that -- those 2 types of advertising. And that also helps us in areas, for example, of discounting where we've been able to significantly bring down our discounting over the past 4 years and it impacts our ability to serve higher-value customers, which if you look at the last year, a lot of our growth came from higher average order values and the top deciles that we have in our business.

我認為由於不同的原因，它們可能會更高。因此，讓我將您提到的組件分成兩個不同的組件。因此，首先，基於終身價值的廣告只是我們認識到一部分廣告支出需要比一年更長的時間才能收回，但它確實有助於提升我們的品牌認知度，而且還使我們能夠以更低的成本－減少在漏斗下層通路的支出。所以它們確實是結合在一起的——這兩種類型的廣告。這也對我們在折扣等領域有所幫助，在過去的四年裡，我們能夠大幅降低折扣，這會影響我們為高價值客戶提供服務的能力，如果你看看去年的情況，就會發現這一點，我們的成長很大程度上來自於更高的平均訂單價值和我們業務中的前十分之一。

The second thing you mentioned was the grouping of product development and marketing. Just for clarity. Most of that is product development and data. There's a bit of marketing team senior overhead there. But it represents -- this category represents the heart of our efforts to improve our customer experience, to drive product experience-driven growth. And that would be an example of easier user experience, more personalization, incorporating a broader set of design capabilities and all those things, if done well, drive profitability downstream through our physical products.

您提到的第二件事是產品開發和行銷的分組。只是為了清楚起見。其中大部分是產品開發和數據。那裡有一些行銷團隊的高級管理費用。但它代表了——這個類別代表了我們努力改善客戶體驗、推動產品體驗驅動型成長的核心。這將是一個更簡單的使用者體驗、更個人化、整合更廣泛的設計能力的例子，所有這些如果做得好，將透過我們的實體產品推動下游的獲利能力。

So the incremental margins at Vista are quite high and so a better product experience through this product development investment can drive changes in average order value, retention rates, conversion rates, which can be really meaningful from a return perspective. And I think also comparing back to several years ago or more, today, we're well past our migration.

因此，Vista 的增量利潤相當高，因此透過產品開發投資獲得更好的產品體驗可以推動平均訂單價值、保留率、轉換率的變化，從回報的角度來看，這非常有意義。我認為，與幾年前或更長時間相比，今天我們已經遠遠超過了我們的遷移。

Our teams who were working on the migration have now been organized into clear product domains. Each product domain has multiple product teams and a much higher percentage of the time is spent on understanding customer needs and building new solutions for that. And that's really the core of where we're focused on our -- as an example of the core of where we're focused in terms of execution for FY '24. So to step way back to your question, yes, I think they can be higher returns than we thought we would have gotten a few years ago.

我們負責遷移的團隊現在已經組織成清晰的產品領域。每個產品領域都有多個產品團隊，並且花在了解客戶需求並為此建立新解決方案的時間比例要高得多。這確實是我們關注的核心——作為我們在 24 財年執行方面關注的核心的一個例子。回到你的問題，是的，我認為它們的回報可能比我們幾年前想像的還要高。

Thanks, Robert. Robert, I'm going to stick with you for a couple of quick hits, just clarifying questions on Vista. Can you remind us what's in the other geographical segment for Vista, so from a regional perspective or breakdown that we provide. Is this where Japan was included, hence the decrease?

謝謝，羅伯特。 Robert，我將繼續與您進行一些簡短的交流，只是澄清有關 Vista 的問題。您能否提醒我們 Vista 的其他地理部分有哪些內容，即從我們提供的區域角度或細分來看。這是日本被包括在內，因此減少了嗎？

Yes, correct. We pulled out of Japan, and so that drove that decrease. Sean or Meredith correct me, India is also in there, but that's growing. And then we also exited by the way, National Pen exited Japan. So you'd see a similar decrease there as well.

是，對的。我們退出日本，因此導致了下降。肖恩或梅雷迪思糾正我，印度也在其中，但它正在增長。然後我們也順便退出了，國筆退出了日本。所以你也會看到類似的下降。

Great. And on a related note, how material is Vista Corporate Solutions to Vista overall?

偉大的。與此相關的是，Vista 企業解決方案對 Vista 整體來說有多重要？

It's about $50 million of annual revenues, but growth has been very strong over the last years, and we expect it to continue to grow.

年收入約為 5000 萬美元，但過去幾年增長非常強勁，我們預計它將繼續增長。

Fantastic. Thank you. All right. So I'm going to shift into -- we had -- we actually had quite a few questions come in around the concept of pricing, both backward-looking and forward looking. So we're going to combine all of these things into one topic, and we're going to cover everybody's questions here.

極好的。謝謝。好的。所以我要轉向——我們——我們實際上有很多圍繞定價概念的問題，既有向後看的問題，也有前瞻性的問題。因此，我們將把所有這些內容合併到一個主題中，並在這裡涵蓋每個人的問題。

So representative questions, can you touch on pricing and volume trends by business. On price, do you expect increases will stick? Or are they transitory in nature? And help us understand in your 6% -- at least 6% organic constant currency revenue growth guidance for FY '24. What have you assumed in terms of volume, price and macro impact?

那麼有代表性的問題是，您能談談按業務劃分的定價和銷售趨勢嗎？在價格方面，您預計價格上漲會持續下去嗎？或者它們本質上是短暫的？並幫助我們了解您對 24 財年 6%——至少 6% 有機固定貨幣收入成長的指導。您對數量、價格和宏觀影響有何假設？

Yes, I'll take this one, Meredith. And the answer is quite nuanced because there are different circumstances in each of our businesses in terms of when they took pricing increases when we're lapping that and so on. And so I'll stick with Vista and Upload and Print because that represents the vast majority of our revenue, and then I'll share some thoughts about FY '24 as well. .

是的，我要這個，梅雷迪絲。答案是非常微妙的，因為我們每個企業的情況都不同，例如他們什麼時候漲價，什麼時候我們採取價格上漲等等。因此，我將堅持使用 Vista 和上傳和列印，因為這代表了我們收入的絕大部分，然後我還將分享一些關於 24 財年的想法。 。

In Vista in Q4, about half of our growth was from pricing. And then we also had strong volume growth in 2 of our highest average order value categories as well. As we look forward into next year, there's still an opportunity with in Vista on the pricing side. And in Q1, we'll still have some of that favorability because we won't have fully lapped all the pricing changes that we've made over the last year.

在第四季的 Vista 中，我們的成長大約一半來自定價。此外，我們在平均訂單價值最高的兩個類別中也實現了強勁的銷售成長。當我們展望明年時，Vista 在定價方面仍然存在機會。在第一季度，我們仍然會有一些優惠，因為我們不會完全接受去年所做的所有定價變化。

But even beyond that, there's still, we believe, opportunity on the pricing side, which I categorize as optimization, but that's still opportunity, and we do expect that we'll continue to have relatively higher growth in those higher AOV categories, which from a mix perspective, when you think about revenue growth is helpful.

但即使除此之外，我們相信定價方面仍然存在機會，我將其歸類為優化，但這仍然是機會，我們確實預計我們將繼續在那些較高AOV 類別中實現相對較高的增長，這些類別來自當你考慮收入成長時，混合的視角是有幫助的。

In Upload and Print in Q4, and you see this in the results, we lapped the more sizable pricing changes that we put in place last year. And there was still some year-over-year pricing favorability in Q4, but we've now lapped those biggest changes. So as we look ahead to FY '24 for Upload and Print, we expect that the vast majority of their growth for this next year will come from volume.

在第四季度的上傳和列印中，您可以在結果中看到這一點，我們採用了去年實施的更大規模的定價變更。第四季仍然存在一些同比定價優惠，但我們現在已經接受了這些最大的變化。因此，當我們展望 24 財年的上傳和列印時，我們預計明年的絕大多數成長將來自數量。

So it's different business by business. If I were to try and summarize it on a consolidated basis as we look forward to this next fiscal year, we've given guidance of at least 6% growth from a revenue perspective. I'd say it's about 1/3 of that growth is from price or changes in mix and about 2/3 of that from volume. Keep in mind, that 6% -- at least 6% guidance that we provided is lower than the growth that we just experienced in this last fiscal year, just given that we're lapping price increases, we have, of course, factored that into the guidance.

因此，不同的業務是不同的。如果我在展望下一個財年時嘗試在綜合基礎上進行總結，我們會從收入角度給出至少 6% 的成長指引。我想說，大約 1/3 的增長來自價格或產品組合的變化，大約 2/3 來自數量。請記住，我們提供的 6%——至少 6% 的指導低於我們在上一財年剛剛經歷的增長，考慮到我們正在經歷價格上漲，我們當然已經考慮到了這一點納入指導。

And then we haven't made any specific assumptions about prices coming down in fiscal '24 for the most part, but we do feel like we've left sufficient room in our planning and in this guidance as well if we were to experience some of that.

然後，我們沒有對 24 財年大部分時間的價格下降做出任何具體假設，但我們確實覺得，如果我們要經歷一些那。

Fantastic. Thank you so much, Sean. All right. So we're squarely into outlook territory now, and I have a couple of questions about the EBITDA targets for FY '24 that came in. One is around what are the levers that brought our expectations from at least $400 million that we provided last quarter to now at least $420 million. And taking that a step further, we've got someone who has done some work. Adjusted EBITDA this year was $340 million, so that's FY '23, and you mentioned that you expect $420 million next year. Cost savings alone would get us to $415 million and once we adjust for the $20 million of expected currency movements, we'd be at 3.95%. Getting to $420 seems very doable given it would assume 6% growth with no margin expansion, which seems unlikely. Are we thinking about this the right way? Or are there certain unknowns that might make getting to the $420 million not as straightforward?

極好的。非常感謝你，肖恩。好的。因此，我們現在正進入展望領域，我對 24 財年的 EBITDA 目標有幾個問題。其中一個問題是哪些槓桿使我們的預期從上季度提供的至少 4 億美元提高到了到目前為止至少4.2億美元。更進一步，我們已經有人做了一些工作。今年調整後的 EBITDA 為 3.4 億美元，這是 23 財年，您提到明年預計為 4.2 億美元。僅節省成本一項就可以讓我們達到 4.15 億美元，一旦我們根據 2000 萬美元的預期貨幣變動進行調整，我們的利率將達到 3.95%。達到 420 美元似乎是非常可行的，因為假設成長率為 6%，且利潤率沒有擴張，但這似乎不太可能。我們思考這個問題的方式正確嗎？或者是否存在某些未知因素可能導致獲得 4.2 億美元的資金變得不那麼容易？

Yes. I'll answer both of those together. And when I do, I'm going to be actually quite specific because I think we've provided all these -- or most of these components in our guidance. And so I'll do my best to kind of package them together for everyone. So just in terms of the first part of the question, which was on the levers that allowed us to raise the guidance for FY '24. If you recall back in January, that was the first time with our Q2 earnings release that we gave guidance for fiscal '24. And at that time, we said we would achieve at least $400 million of EBITDA. .

是的。我將兩者一起回答。當我這樣做時，我實際上會非常具體，因為我認為我們已經在我們的指南中提供了所有這些或大部分這些組件。因此，我會盡力將它們打包在一起提供給每個人。因此，就問題的第一部分而言，即我們能夠提高 24 財年指導的槓桿。如果您還記得一月份的情況，那是我們在第二季財報發布中首次給出 24 財年的指導。當時，我們說我們將實現至少 4 億美元的 EBITDA。 。

And then in our call in late March, we provided a lot of detail on how we would get there. And in that guidance, we had bridged from our trailing 12-month EBITDA at the time to that $400 million, and so I'll try and keep that same framework as I go through this.

然後在三月下旬的電話會議中，我們提供了有關如何實現這一目標的大量細節。在該指導中，我們已經從當時的過去 12 個月 EBITDA 過渡到了 4 億美元，因此我將在經歷這一過程時嘗試保持相同的框架。

If you continue to fast forward in the time line, our actuals for Q3 were $7 million higher than the high end of our guidance that we had provided. And then at that time, last quarter, we raised our Q4 guidance as well when we released earnings last quarter. Our actuals then for Q4 that we reported yesterday were then $20 million above the high end of our upward revised guidance range. And so those are really the levers in that bridge that just mathematically get you to at least the $420 million.

如果您繼續快轉時間線，我們第三季的實際金額比我們提供的指導上限高出 700 萬美元。然後在上個季度的那個時候，我們在發布上個季度的收益時也提高了第四季度的指導。我們昨天報告的第四季度的實際價格比我們上調指導範圍的上限高出 2000 萬美元。因此，這些確實是這座橋樑中的槓桿，從數學上講，它們可以讓你獲得至少 4.2 億美元。

If you take our exit rate of EBITDA, which is $340 million, and you do the math with the other guidance, which is to the point of the second question there, let me just walk you through that. So starting point, $340 million as we exit FY '23. We still have $76 million of our cost savings from what we communicated back in March that are yet to be reflected in our actuals. So that will be a benefit for this next fiscal year.

如果您採用我們的 EBITDA 退出率為 3.4 億美元，並根據其他指導進行數學計算，這就是第二個問題的重點，讓我向您介紹一下。因此，當我們退出 23 財年時，起點為 3.4 億美元。根據我們 3 月傳達的訊息，我們仍然節省了 7,600 萬美元的成本，但尚未反映在我們的實際情況中。因此，這將是下一財年的好處。

We've then given revenue guidance of at least 6% growth. If you look at our -- and this is in our reported results, if you look at our contribution margin on a consolidated basis for this last year, just as a starting point, that was a little bit over 31%. So if you take the 6% growth in our guidance or at least 6% growth, and you take, let's call it, a roughly 30% flow-through on that in terms of our contribution margin. That's another $55 million or slightly more than that of benefit in FY '24 from the flow-through of that growth.

然後我們給了至少 6% 成長的收入指引。如果你看看我們的報告結果，如果你看看我們去年的綜合貢獻率（作為起點），那就是略高於 31%。因此，如果您採用我們指導中的 6% 成長，或至少 6% 的成長，那麼就我們的邊際收益而言，您可以稱之為大約 30% 的流量。這比 24 財年因成長帶來的效益又增加了 5,500 萬美元，略多。

So at that point, you're at just over $470 million. You then have to factor in that we have approximately $20 million of currency headwinds, we expect next year. So that brings you down to $450 million. And then the last piece is that there are normal inflationary increases in our operating cost things like merit increases on our compensation base or technology costs that either have an inflationary component or they go up with volume. And so that has to be factored in as well and then that gets you to the at least $420 million in this next fiscal year. So to answer the question, I think you're thinking about it the right way. Hopefully, that walk-through makes it clear for everyone kind of what the components of the guidance are.

那麼到那時，你的資產就剛剛超過 4.7 億美元。然後你必須考慮到我們預計明年將面臨約 2000 萬美元的貨幣逆風。這樣一來，您的收入就減少到了 4.5 億美元。最後一點是，我們的營運成本會出現正常的通貨膨脹增加，例如我們的薪酬基礎或技術成本的績效增加，這些成本要麼具有通貨膨脹的成分，要麼隨著數量的增加而增加。因此，這也必須考慮在內，這樣您在下一個財年的收入就至少達到 4.2 億美元。因此，為了回答這個問題，我認為您的思考方式是正確的。希望該演練能讓每個人都清楚指南的組成部分。

Wonderful. Thanks, Sean. All right. We're going to stick with the guidance here with another pre-submitted question for the at least $420 million in EBITDA and 40% free cash flow conversion. Would you expect it to be front half or back half weighted?

精彩的。謝謝，肖恩。好的。我們將堅持此處的指導，並提出另一個預先提交的問題，即至少 4.2 億美元的 EBITDA 和 40% 的自由現金流轉換。您希望它是前半配重還是後半配重？

Yes, we didn't give quarterly guidance, although this is a clever way of trying to ask for it. We have normal seasonality to our profitability, and you can look back over many years and see some of those patterns. Q2, so the December quarter is typically our strongest for profitability. And then Q4, the June quarter is usually the second highest in terms of profitability, and that's a pattern that we do expect to continue in this next fiscal year.

是的，我們沒有提供季度指導，儘管這是嘗試尋求指導的聰明方法。我們的盈利能力具有正常的季節性，您可以回顧多年並看到其中的一些模式。第二季度，因此 12 月季度通常是我們獲利能力最強的季度。然後是第四季度，就獲利能力而言，六月季度通常是第二高的，我們預計下一財年將繼續這種模式。

In fiscal '23, it was actually the first time ever that our adjusted EBITDA in Q4 was higher than Q2. That won't be the norm. So you can expect that more kind of typical pattern Q2 being, we expect the highest quarter and then Q4, the second highest.

在 23 財年，這實際上是我們在第四季度調整後 EBITDA 高於第二季的第一次。這不會成為常態。因此，您可以期待更多典型的模式，我們預計第二季度是最高的季度，然後是第二季度的第四季度。

So given that December quarter seasonality, I think it's fair to assume that we expect adjusted EBITDA to be a little bit more front half weighted to the point of the question. Keep in mind that the cost savings that we have will continue to come in throughout the year. And that's going to be mostly in our run rate by the time we get to the end of Q3 and so because of that, I'd expect that the year-over-year growth in our adjusted EBITDA -- that year-over-year growth should be higher in the first half of the year because more of those cost savings will be impacting that year-over-year comparison.

因此，考慮到 12 月季度的季節性，我認為可以公平地假設，我們預計調整後的 EBITDA 會比問題點的前半部分加權更多。請記住，我們全年都會持續節省成本。到第三季末時，這將主要體現在我們的運行率中，因此，我預計我們調整後的 EBITDA 將同比增長——同比今年上半年的增長應該會更高，因為更多的成本節省將影響同比。

From a cash flow perspective, again, if you look at our historical cash flow patterns, you see some pretty typical patterns there quarter-by-quarter. Typically, our Q2 and Q4 are also the most favorable from a cash flow perspective, because it's the highest EBITDA quarters, but also given our working capital patterns and again, we expect that to be the case for next year as well. So that should mean from a cash flow perspective, it's also slightly more front half loaded, but it really -- that really depends on some of the timing of working capital.

同樣，從現金流的角度來看，如果您查看我們的歷史現金流模式，您會發現每個季度都有一些非常典型的模式。通常，從現金流的角度來看，我們的第二和第四季度也是最有利的，因為這是 EBITDA 最高的季度，但考慮到我們的營運資本模式，我們預計明年也會如此。因此，這應該意味著從現金流的角度來看，它的前半部分負載也稍微多一些，但這實際上取決於營運資金的某些時間安排。

Thanks, Sean. All right. Sean, I'm going to stick with you. Can you speak to the long-term margin potential in the business? Could it get back to the mid or high teens? And if so, how do we get there?

謝謝，肖恩。好的。肖恩，我會一直陪著你。您能談談該業務的長期利潤潛力嗎？它能回到十幾歲或十幾歲嗎？如果是這樣，我們如何到達那裡？

Yes. We haven't giving guidance that far out. But if you maybe as a starting point, just do the math on the guidance that we've provided for this next fiscal year, that would yield about a 13% EBITDA margin. So heading in the right direction relative to 11% in FY '23. And what we've laid out for FY '24, and you'll see this in Robert's letter as well, is not -- certainly not the destination, but just the next kind of point on the line, and we expect the trend of our results to continue favorably. And therefore, we expect that there is continued margin expansion opportunity in the years that follow that.

是的。我們還沒有提供那麼遠的指導。但如果您可以以此為起點，根據我們為下一財年提供的指導進行數學計算，您將獲得約 13% 的 EBITDA 利潤率。因此，相對於 2023 財年的 11% 而言，正朝著正確的方向發展。我們為 24 財年制定的計劃，你也會在羅伯特的信中看到這一點，不是——當然不是目的地，而只是線上的下一個點，我們預計趨勢是我們的業績將繼續良好。因此，我們預計接下來的幾年將有持續的利潤率擴張機會。

So I think that's probably as specific as I'll be. So I think we could get back to mid-high teens. I think we certainly could. And frankly, the reason that we don't talk a lot about that is because some of that is dependent on the level of investment -- organic investment that we have in any given year. And I think frankly, it can be a little bit misleading if we were to have that target because that can fluctuate year by year depending on organic investment levels. That's why we tend to focus more on the dollars of contribution as opposed to the market.

所以我認為這可能是我將要說的那麼具體。所以我認為我們可以回到中高青少年。我想我們當然可以。坦白說，我們沒有過多談論這一點的原因是因為其中一些取決於投資水平——我們在任何特定年份的有機投資。坦白說，我認為，如果我們設定這個目標，可能會有點誤導，因為該目標可能會根據有機投資水平而逐年波動。這就是為什麼我們傾向於更多地關注貢獻的美元而不是市場。

Thanks, Sean. We've got a live question that came in here on advertising for Vista. So the question is how sustainable is the reduction in lower funnel advertising spend for Vista, which you can see in the earnings document and also a shout out for our financial and operating metrics spreadsheet where you can see the trend of these results as well.

謝謝，肖恩。我們這裡有一個關於 Vista 廣告的即時問題。因此，問題是 Vista 下漏斗廣告支出的減少有多可持續，您可以在收益文件中看到這一點，也可以在我們的財務和營運指標電子表格中看到這些結果的趨勢。

Yes. I would encourage people to actually look at advertising spend altogether because what we're -- more and more as we continue to shift the mix of the channels that we're using, that mix between lower funnel and mid- and upper funnel should continue to evolve. I think that would be a very healthy thing. We're doing a lot of experimentation there and so I would not look at lower funnel in any given quarter in isolation, I would look at that in total. That said, if you do look at it in total, year-over-year, as a percentage of revenue, our advertising is down quite a bit. There's about 700 basis points of margin leverage year-over-year.

是的。我鼓勵人們真正考慮廣告支出，因為隨著我們不斷改變我們正在使用的管道組合，下漏斗和中上漏斗之間的混合應該會繼續下去進化。我認為這將是一件非常健康的事情。我們在那裡做了很多實驗，所以我不會孤立地看待任何特定季度的下漏斗，我會整體考慮。也就是說，如果你確實從總體上看，與去年同期相比，我們的廣告收入佔收入的百分比下降了很多。保證金槓桿較去年同期約為 700 個基點。

I think last quarter, I had said that I expect that 15% to 17% of revenue on an annual basis is a fair range to assume. In Q4, we happen to be at the low end of that. We were at 15% of revenue and I do think that, that is sustainable to be at the 15% to 17% which, again, is lower than where we go from. Certainly, if you look back kind of prior to the beginning of our transformation journey in Vista, we were at roughly 22% of revenue on a regular basis, this 15% to 17% is, I think, is absolutely sustainable, and we'll see quarter-by-quarter fluctuations in that. But on an annual basis, I think that's a fair range to continue to assume.

我認為上個季度，我曾說過，我預計年收入的 15% 至 17% 是一個合理的假設範圍。在第四季度，我們恰好處於低端。我們當時佔收入的 15%，我確實認為，保持在 15% 到 17% 是可持續的，這再次低於我們的起點。當然，如果你回顧一下我們在 Vista 轉型之旅開始之前的情況，我們的常規收入約為 22%，我認為這 15% 到 17% 絕對是可持續的，而且我們’我們會看到逐季度的波動。但從每年的角度來看，我認為這是一個值得繼續假設的合理範圍。

Thanks, Sean. Okay, quick hit. Are you done with cash restructuring payments after Q4?

謝謝，肖恩。好的，快點打吧。第四季後您完成了現金重組付款嗎？

There's $8 million left largely to go out in Q1. Some of that is from the cost reductions that we outlined back in March, which are focused on Vista and our central teams -- and then some of that is some time ago, we had disclosed that National Pen was migrating its European manufacturing from Ireland to Czech Republic, and that's coming to completion now. And so in Q1, we'll have some of the payments there. So $8 million is what's left for FY '24.

第一季還剩下 800 萬美元。其中一些是來自我們在三月概述的成本削減，這些成本削減主要針對 Vista 和我們的核心團隊——還有一些是前段時間我們透露的，National Pen 正在將其歐洲製造從愛爾蘭遷移到捷克共和國，現在即將完成。因此，在第一季度，我們將在那裡收到一些付款。因此 24 財年還剩下 800 萬美元。

Thanks, Sean. All right. So a nice meta question here. What are the 1 or 2 biggest risks to meeting your guidance? Just a general recession?

謝謝，肖恩。好的。這是一個很好的元問題。滿足您的指導的 1 或 2 個最大風險是什麼？只是普遍的衰退嗎？

I'll take this one and Robert, please jump in if you have anything to add. Certainly, a general recession would be one. I think we've fared well in the past in recessions. But I think in general, macro uncertainty would be on that list. But we can't control that until I'll try and highlight 1 or 2 things that would be in our control. I think just to take a step back, we feel quite confident in our profitability and our cash flow guidance based on the plans we have. And so there's always risk we've incorporated that to -- for everything that we know in our plants. We feel quite confident in that guidance and the plans that we have to support that.

我會接受這個，羅伯特，如果您有什麼要補充的，請加入。當然，全面衰退就是其中之一。我認為我們過去在經濟衰退時期表現得很好。但我認為總的來說，宏觀不確定性會在這個清單上。但我們無法控制這一點，直到我試著強調我們可以控制的一兩件事。我認為退一步來說，我們對我們的獲利能力和基於我們計劃的現金流指導非常有信心。因此，對於我們在工廠中所知的一切，我們將其納入其中總是存在風險。我們對這項指導以及我們必須支持的計劃充滿信心。

That said, I think the 2 biggest risks that are outside of the kind of general macro are on the revenue side of the equation. And it would be; one, just making sure that we deliver the volume growth that we expect because we're lapping the pricing increases and so more of our growth will come from volume as I outlined earlier, we brought down our revenue growth expectations because of that. So again, we feel confident in our plans there, but that would be one risk. And then the second one is just after a period of higher prices, and there was a question that kind of was getting to this earlier. Does any of that pricing benefit reverse if we see a more favorable cost environment over the next year?

也就是說，我認為一般宏觀之外的兩個最大風險是在收入方面。確實如此；第一，只要確保我們實現預期的銷量成長，因為我們正在超越價格上漲，因此我們的成長將更多地來自銷量，正如我之前概述的那樣，因此我們降低了營收成長預期。所以，我們再次對我們在那裡的計劃充滿信心，但這將是一個風險。第二個是在價格上漲一段時間之後，有一個問題是早些時候談到這個問題。如果我們在明年看到更有利的成本環境，那麼定價優勢是否會逆轉？

I think -- so those are the 2 risks, I think, we feel like we have plenty of levers when it comes to profitability and cash flow if any of those things were to happen. Input costs have stabilized and we think there's opportunity for that in FY '24. If you think about our advertising spend, it's now more focused. We've driven a lot of efficiency there, and we're continually experimenting. So we feel good about the advertising spend line. And then we have a lot of control of our operating expenses, which we've now reduced. And so I think it really comes back to delivering the revenue. Our guidance is for at least 6% growth. That already reflects the fact that we've -- we're lapping price increases, as I said. If there were to be some reversal in pricing, I think that would most likely be because costs are coming down. And so from a profitability and cash flow perspective, I think there's less risk there.

我認為，這就是兩個風險，我認為，如果發生任何這些事情，我們覺得在獲利能力和現金流方面我們有足夠的槓桿。投入成本已經穩定，我們認為 24 財年有機會實現這一目標。如果您考慮一下我們的廣告支出，您會發現現在更加集中。我們在那裡提高了很多效率，我們正在不斷進行試驗。所以我們對廣告支出感到滿意。然後我們對營運費用有了很大的控制，現在我們已經減少了。所以我認為這真正回到了交付收入的問題。我們的指導是至少成長 6%。正如我所說，這已經反映出我們正在加快價格上漲這一事實。如果定價出現一些逆轉，我認為這很可能是因為成本下降。因此，從獲利能力和現金流的角度來看，我認為風險較小。

Great. Thanks, Sean. All right. While we're talking about macro factors, Robert, this one's for you. Thus far, in Q1, have you seen any softening in the business environment across the various countries that Cimpress operates? Has there been any discounts or roll backs to pricing by you or your competitors?

偉大的。謝謝，肖恩。好的。當我們談論宏觀因素時，羅伯特，這個是給你的。到目前為止，在第一季度，您是否看到 Cimpress 經營的各個國家/地區的商業環境出現疲軟？您或您的競爭對手是否有任何折扣或回滾定價？

The short answer is no to both of those questions. From a regional perspective, Q4 was pretty balanced in terms of performance. There -- certainly, there's nothing signaling that we'll see a change in that going forward. We have not seen signs of broad weakness, and we've not seen the need to do more discounting and roll back pricing. We do actively monitor competitive pricing, and there's nothing that we see at this time. We actually think there's still some price optimization available.

對於這兩個問題，簡短的回答是否定的。從區域角度來看，第四季的表現相當平衡。當然，沒有任何跡象表明我們會看到這種情況發生變化。我們沒有看到普遍疲軟的跡象，也沒有看到需要進行更多折扣和回滾定價。我們確實在積極監控競爭性定價，但目前我們還沒有看到任何結果。我們實際上認為仍然可以進行一些價格優化。

If in the future, pricing levels will retract in any categories as our costs come down and as the input costs for the industry come down, if that were to happen, just as in the past, when we had pricing pressure from competitors, we would not give up market share since we believe we can outlast our competitors and we certainly would be seeing in that situation. Anyways, we're seeing costs come down and so we might have a revenue impact, but much less of an impact in terms of gross profit or EBITDA. So a quick summary is we don't see anything here, we continue to monitor it as always, but that's a quick summary.

如果將來，隨著我們的成本下降以及行業的投入成本下降，任何類別的定價水平都會下降，如果這種情況發生，就像過去一樣，當我們面臨來自競爭對手的定價壓力時，我們會不要放棄市場份額，因為我們相信我們能夠比競爭對手更長久，而且我們肯定會看到這種情況。無論如何，我們看到成本下降，因此我們可能會對收入產生影響，但對毛利或 EBITDA 的影響要小得多。因此，快速總結是我們在這裡沒有看到任何內容，我們繼續一如既往地對其進行監控，但這只是一個快速總結。

Thanks, Robert. Okay. Let's get into some capital allocation and capital structure questions now. Sean, why don't you take this one? Why did you buy back bonds versus loans in Q4? Loans interest expense is likely higher due to the base rate.

謝謝，羅伯特。好的。現在讓我們來討論一些資本配置和資本結構問題。肖恩，你為什麼不拿這個？為什麼您在第四季回購債券而不是貸款？由於基本利率，貸款利息支出可能會更高。

Yes. We think this is a great use of capital. The weighted average interest rate on our outstanding term loan B debt was about 7.7%, if you include our swaps at the end of June year. So yes, to the point of the question, the current rates are a bit higher for the term loans than the 7% coupon on our bonds. But the bonds were trading at a deeper discount than our loans. So the yield was much higher for those repurchases. And if you -- just to put that in perspective, during the window that we were buying, our bonds traded between 84% and 89% and our average purchase price was about 87%.

是的。我們認為這是對資本的巨大利用。如果將今年 6 月底的掉期計算在內，我們未償還定期貸款 B 債務的加權平均利率約為 7.7%。所以，是的，就問題而言，定期貸款的當前利率比我們債券 7% 的票面要高一些。但這些債券的交易價格比我們的貸款折扣更大。因此，這些回購的收益率要高得多。如果你正確看待這一點，在我們購買的窗口期間，我們的債券交易價格在 84% 到 89% 之間，我們的平均購買價格約為 87%。

The U.S. dollar tranche of our term loan B during the same time period was trading in the 95% to 96% range. So again, a discount on our bonds at the time was much higher. The yield to maturity on our bond repurchases that we did in Q4, which, again, was referenced in the opening remarks, but we spent $45 million to buy $52 million of notional. The yield on that was 12%. Although if you were to assume that we refinance our bonds in advance their maturity, then the yield gets higher, you can make your own assumption there. The bonds also mature 2 years before our term loan B. And so maturity is something that we factor to those considerations as well. But again, we think this is a great use of capital, supports our delevering and very high yield.

同期，我們定期貸款 B 的美元部分交易價格在 95% 至 96% 範圍內。同樣，當時我們債券的折扣要高得多。我們在第四季度進行的債券回購的到期收益率，在開場白中再次提到，但我們花了 4500 萬美元購買了 5200 萬美元的名義債券。其收益率為12%。儘管如果您假設我們在債券到期前進行再融資，那麼收益率會更高，但您可以在那裡做出自己的假設。這些債券也比我們的定期貸款 B 早兩年到期。因此，到期日也是我們考慮這些因素的因素。但我們再次認為這是對資本的充分利用，支持我們的去槓桿化和非常高的收益率。

Great. So a couple of questions here on a related note. So what do you view to be an adequate liquidity position? And do you view further bond repurchases as a capital allocation priority? And are you expecting to buy back bonds further? And what are the steps taken towards refinancing? So sorry, there's a couple of different types of topics in that one, but they're all related.

偉大的。因此，這裡有幾個相關問題。那麼，您認為什麼才是充足的流動性部位呢？您是否認為進一步的債券回購是資本配置的優先事項？您預計會進一步回購債券嗎？再融資採取了哪些步驟？很抱歉，該主題中有幾種不同類型的主題，但它們都是相關的。

Okay. Well, I think right now, we have an adequate liquidity position. It's the cash and investments that we hold are in excess of what we view to be a minimum cash level. And so we're adequate now and -- but we're going to continue to build that liquidity or to say it another way, we expect to continue to reduce our net debt in FY '24. Do we expect to do further bond repurchases? I will give the exact same answer that we've given probably for 4 quarters now, which is we look at it regularly, just like we look at any capital allocation opportunities. Over the last year, we've prioritized making sure that we have been building liquidity and we were able to continue to do that in Q4 despite spending significant capital on bond repurchases. So it's really dependent on yield and other opportunities, but remains a priority for us to delever. So we'll remain focused on that and we'll continue to look at opportunities to buy bonds if that opportunity is there.

好的。嗯，我認為現在我們的流動性狀況充足。我們持有的現金和投資超過了我們認為的最低現金水準。因此，我們現在已經足夠了，但我們將繼續增加流動性，或者換句話說，我們預計將在 24 財年繼續減少淨債務。我們是否預計會進行進一步的債券回購？我將給出與我們現在可能已經給出的四個季度完全相同的答案，即我們定期查看它，就像我們查看任何資本配置機會一樣。去年，我們優先確保我們一直在建立流動性，儘管在債券回購上花費了大量資金，但我們能夠在第四季度繼續做到這一點。因此，這實際上取決於收益率和其他機會，但仍然是我們去槓桿化的優先事項。因此，我們將繼續關注這一點，如果有機會的話，我們將繼續尋找購買債券的機會。

In terms of steps taken towards refinancing, just for everyone's benefit. Our bonds have a 2026 maturity, our Term Loan B is 2028. So there's nothing that we need to be doing right now. Our focus will continue to be on delivering against the guidance that we've provided, which implies continued delevering and continued reduction of our net debt and quite a bit of continued expansion of our EBITDA delivering on those things will put us in a good position to, at the right time, refinance our bonds, but there's nothing we need to be doing in the near term.

就再融資採取的步驟而言，只是為了每個人的利益。我們的債券的到期日為 2026 年，我們的定期貸款 B 的到期日為 2028 年。所以我們現在不需要做任何事情。我們的重點將繼續放在我們提供的指導上，這意味著繼續去槓桿化和繼續減少我們的淨債務，以及我們的 EBITDA 的持續擴張，實現這些目標將使我們處於有利地位在適當的時候，為我們的債券再融資，但短期內我們不需要做任何事。

Again, it's something that we look at continually. We have views on when we should be doing that. But I think delivering on our FY '24 plans will put us in a position to take advantage of market opportunities when they exist after that. And so we'll keep our eye on that, but nothing to report right now.

同樣，這是我們不斷關注的事情。我們對於何時應該這樣做有自己的看法。但我認為，實現 24 財年計畫將使我們能夠充分利用此後存在的市場機會。所以我們會密切關注這一點，但現在沒有什麼可報告的。

Thanks, Sean. Robert, I'm going to throw this next one over to you. What are your goals for leverage on the business? And what would lead the Board to institute a dividend?

謝謝，肖恩。羅伯特，我要把下一個交給你。您對業務的影響力目標是什麼？什麼會導致董事會設立股利？

Okay. For the first question, we've said in multiple places, we -- yesterday, that we expect to exit FY '24 with net leverage below 3.25x our trailing 12-month EBITDA. And beyond FY '24, we're going to have flexibility to deploy capital opportunistically depending on what we see then, obviously, with the objective of increasing our per share intrinsic value. Now we almost said we hope to expect to maintain leverage similar or below our pre-pandemic levels. We don't have a specific leverage target but hopefully, that commentary is helpful to you in terms of the direction and what we expect this year and beyond.

好的。對於第一個問題，我們昨天在多個地方表示，我們預計在 24 財年退出時，淨槓桿率將低於我們過去 12 個月 EBITDA 的 3.25 倍。在 24 財年之後，我們將根據當時的情況靈活地投機部署資本，顯然，其目標是提高每股內在價值。現在我們幾乎說我們希望槓桿率保持在與大流行前水平相似或更低的水平。我們沒有具體的槓桿目標，但希望該評論對您在今年及以後的方向和預期方面有所幫助。

We do not have any plans to implement a dividend. We believe there's other uses of capital that are better options for us. So it'd be not possible to even outline what we would lead us to institute a dividend. It's not in the picture and our capital allocation for the foreseeable future.

我們沒有任何實施股利的計畫。我們相信資本的其他用途對我們來說是更好的選擇。因此，甚至不可能概述我們將如何制定股息。它不在我們的計劃和可預見的未來的資本配置中。

Thanks, Robert. Sean, a question for you. Where is the cash held, how much is held in the U.S. and is truly available?

謝謝，羅伯特。肖恩，問你一個問題。持有的現金在哪裡？在美國持有多少現金並且可以真正使用？

Our main banking partners just in terms of our deposits are JPM, Bank of America, HSBC, Citi, so that's probably not that surprising for folks. We -- in terms of where our investments are, we invest our excess cash based on our investment policy we have, that investment policy prioritizes principal protection over everything else. That's first and foremost. And then it also -- our policy has restrictions on things like weighted average maturity and so on. Our investments are in money market funds, government agencies, the highest credit corporate paper. You can see more details on that in our disclosure in our Ks and Qs.

就存款而言，我們的主要銀行合作夥伴是摩根大通、美國銀行、匯豐銀行、花旗銀行，所以這對人們來說可能並不奇怪。就我們的投資而言，我們根據我們的投資政策來投資多餘的現金，該投資政策將本金保護置於其他一切之上。這是首要的。然後，我們的政策對加權平均期限等也有限制。我們的投資對象包括貨幣市場基金、政府機構、最高信用企業票據。您可以在我們的 K 和 Q 中的披露中查看更多詳細資訊。

The -- in terms of where the -- where our cash is held, it's held in multiple jurisdictions, just given the footprint of our business. And as an Irish company, our cash doesn't have to be in the U.S. or moved to the U.S. to be available. So that might be a little bit of a different context than whoever was asking the question. The vast majority of our cash, it is not trapped, so it's available, but again, it doesn't have to be in the U.S. to be available, which I think is what the question was getting at. We also have -- we use the notional cash flowing arrangement. So that allows our cash to be more accessible even if it's not in the same location at a given time.

就我們的現金存放地點而言，考慮到我們業務的足跡，它存放在多個司法管轄區。作為一家愛爾蘭公司，我們的現金不必在美國或轉移到美國才能使用。因此，這可能與提出問題的人的背景有所不同。我們的絕大多數現金都沒有被困住，因此可以使用，但同樣，它不一定要在美國才能使用，我認為這就是問題所在。我們也使用名義現金流安排。這樣一來，即使我們的現金在特定時間不在同一地點，也可以更容易取得。

Thanks, Sean. Robert, what leverage level do you want to achieve before resuming stock buyback and/or M&A?

謝謝，肖恩。羅伯特，在恢復股票回購和/或併購之前，您希望達到什麼槓桿水平？

Well, we've said we need to get our leverage to 3.25x by the end of the year and after that, we look at other allocation opportunities. So I think it's certainly that or below. And we think our trajectory in our profits and cash flow should continue. And we've also said we want to operate at our pre-pandemic levels of leverage.

嗯，我們說過我們需要在年底前將槓桿率提高到 3.25 倍，之後我們會考慮其他配置機會。所以我認為肯定是這個或以下。我們認為我們的利潤和現金流的軌跡應該要繼續下去。我們還表示，我們希望以大流行前的槓桿水平進行營運。

Great. Thanks, Robert. All right. So we've got 1 more question here that came in, and it was about a comment that we made in the annual letter that you made, Robert. So in the annual letter, you wrote that Cimpress plans to bring mass customization model to new products and categories. What type of specific products and categories are you referencing?

偉大的。謝謝，羅伯特。好的。我們這裡還有一個問題，是關於我們在您寫的年度信中發表的評論的，羅伯特。所以在年度信件中，您寫道Cimpress計劃將大規模客製化模式引入新產品和品類中。您引用的具體產品和類別是什麼類型？

So they're very much in line with what we've done for the last 30 years where we've expanded our physical typically printed or other forms of personalization, so it can be promotional products, packaging, labels, books, catalogs, magazines. These are all products you can see on at least one or more of our sites right today. And then it's a question also of just going and expanding the depth of our product offering in any given category and the breadth of that offering. So it could be different variations available in terms of finishing, being competitive at multiple different levels of quantities. We're never going to get into very high volume printing, but expanding up into mid volumes. So it's nothing that would surprise anyone who is familiar with what we've done over the last 30 years.

因此，它們非常符合我們過去 30 年所做的事情，我們擴展了實體印刷或其他形式的個人化，因此它可以是促銷產品、包裝、標籤、書籍、目錄、雜誌。這些都是您今天至少可以在我們的一個或多個網站上看到的所有產品。然後，這也是一個問題，即繼續擴大我們在任何給定類別中產品提供的深度以及該產品的廣度。因此，在精加工方面可能會有不同的變化，在多個不同的數量水平上具有競爭力。我們永遠不會進入非常大批量的印刷，而是擴展到中等批量。因此，任何熟悉我們過去 30 年所做工作的人都不會感到驚訝。

Thanks, Robert. I know I'm looking forward too. A lot more innovation to come from all of our businesses on that front over the next years. So with that, those are the questions that we've had for the call. So Robert, why don't you sign us off here with a few parting remarks.

謝謝，羅伯特。我知道我也很期待。未來幾年，我們所有的業務都將在這方面推出更多創新。因此，這些就是我們在電話會議中提出的問題。那麼，羅伯特，你為什麼不在這裡用幾句臨別贈言結束我們的談話呢？

Okay. Well, thank you, Meredith. Thank you, Sean. And of course, thank you all for listening. We finished up another fiscal year where I think we've demonstrated our ability to deliver financial results that were in line with guidance, which when we gave it, I know that people were saying, well, how are you going to expand that quickly and certainly delivering those financial results and aligning with that guidance is important to me, to others on the Board and our senior leaders. We all have aligned economic incentives that are consistent with the incentives or alignment we would need for our long-term shareholders.

好的。嗯，謝謝你，梅雷迪思。謝謝你，肖恩。當然，感謝大家的聆聽。我們又結束了一個財年，我認為我們已經證明了我們有能力提供符合指導的財務業績，當我們給出指導時，我知道人們會說，好吧，你將如何快速擴張，當然，實現這些財務表現並遵守該指導方針對我、董事會其他成員以及我們的高階領導者都很重要。我們都制定了一致的經濟激勵措施，這些措施與我們為長期股東所需的激勵措施或協調一致。

And so as I've discussed in the annual letter, which we published last night, we certainly look forward to FY '24. And that year, we're going to be very focused on improving our customer value proposition further and gaining operational momentum and execution momentum on a very clear strategy that we have in a very large market.

正如我在昨晚發布的年度信中所討論的那樣，我們當然期待 24 財年。那一年，我們將非常專注於進一步改善我們的客戶價值主張，並根據我們在一個非常大的市場中擁有的非常明確的策略來獲得營運動力和執行動力。

So I would, once again, encourage you all to read that letter to understand how we think about capital allocation and intrinsic value per share. And that really gives you a complementary perspective in addition to the quarterly release, we also put out last night. So thank you very much for all your questions. Thank you for your interest in Cimpress, and we look forward to speaking to you in the not-too-distant future.

因此，我再次鼓勵大家閱讀這封信，以了解我們如何看待資本配置和每股內在價值。除了我們昨晚發布的季度發布之外，這確實為您提供了補充視角。非常感謝您提出的所有問題。感謝您對 Cimpress 的興趣，我們期待在不久的將來與您交談。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的會議。這確實結束了該程式。您現在可以斷開連線。