Cimpress PLC (CMPR) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Cimpress Second Quarter Fiscal Year 2023 Earnings Call. I will now introduce Meredith Burns, Vice President of Investor Relations and Sustainability. Please go ahead.

歡迎來到 Cimpress 2023 財年第二季度財報電話會議。我現在將介紹投資者關係和可持續發展副總裁 Meredith Burns。請繼續。

Thank you, Catherine, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today. After a positive investor feedback from our Q4 FY '22 public earnings call, we have decided to reinstate quarterly public earnings calls, and we'll continue them as long as they continue to be useful to investor understanding of our financial and operating performance.

謝謝你，凱瑟琳，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。在我們的 22 財年第四季度公開收益電話會議獲得投資者積極反饋後，我們決定恢復季度公開收益電話會議，只要它們繼續有助於投資者了解我們的財務和經營業績，我們就會繼續進行。

With us today are Robert Keane, our Founder, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Sean Quinn, EVP and Chief Financial Officer. I hope you've all had a chance to read our earnings document. We really do appreciate the time that you've dedicated to understanding our results, commentary and outlook. This live Q&A session will last 45 minutes to an hour, and (inaudible) questions. You can submit questions via the question-and-answer box on the bottom left of the screen.

今天與我們同在的還有我們的創始人、董事長兼首席執行官羅伯特·基恩 (Robert Keane)；執行副總裁兼首席財務官 Sean Quinn。我希望你們都有機會閱讀我們的收益文件。我們非常感謝您花時間了解我們的結果、評論和展望。這個現場問答環節將持續 45 分鐘到一個小時，並且（聽不清）問題。您可以通過屏幕左下方的問答框提交問題。

Before we start, I'll note that in this session, we're likely to make statements about the future. Our actual results may differ materially from these statements due to risk factors that are outlined in detail in our SEC filings and the documents that we published yesterday on our website. We invite you to read them.

在我們開始之前，我會指出，在本次會議中，我們可能會就未來發表聲明。由於我們在 SEC 文件和我們昨天在網站上發布的文件中詳細概述的風險因素，我們的實際結果可能與這些陳述存在重大差異。我們邀請您閱讀它們。

And now I will turn things over to Sean and Robert for some brief remarks before we take questions.

在我們提問之前，現在我將把事情交給肖恩和羅伯特做一些簡短的評論。

Great. Thanks a lot, Meredith, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today. I'm just going to start by highlighting a few key points from the results that we published yesterday, along with our outlook. As we outlined back in our September Investor Day, the fiscal year results for this year, we're going to be characterized by margin compression in the first half of the year as we annualize the impact of cost inflation that accelerated in the second half of last year. Also as we annualize the impact of last year's investments in Vista, and we experience some unfavorable shifts in our product mix from a margin perspective. And we said that as we exit this fiscal year, we expect to be on a path through expanding our EBITDA, both through margin expansion and through revenue growth.

偉大的。非常感謝 Meredith，也感謝大家今天加入我們。首先，我將強調我們昨天發布的結果中的幾個要點以及我們的展望。正如我們在 9 月投資者日概述的那樣，今年的財政年度結果，我們將在今年上半年以利潤率壓縮為特徵，因為我們將下半年加速的成本通脹的影響年化去年。此外，當我們對去年對 Vista 的投資的影響進行年化分析時，從利潤率的角度來看，我們的產品組合發生了一些不利的變化。我們說過，在我們退出本財年時，我們希望通過擴大利潤率和收入增長來擴大我們的 EBITDA。

All of this remains the case, and our second quarter results reflect this. Our total revenue grew in constant currencies across all segments, including growth in revenue from new customers in the Vista businesses last quarter. However, constant currency revenue growth slowed from the first quarter.

所有這一切仍然如此，我們第二季度的業績反映了這一點。我們所有部門的總收入均以固定匯率計算增長，包括上個季度 Vista 業務中來自新客戶的收入增長。然而，恆定貨幣收入增長較第一季度有所放緩。

Revenue from consumer products was down slightly and has more weight this quarter, particularly in the months of November and December. That being said, in January month to date, as mix shifts [backs] our organic constant currency revenue growth has accelerated back above the 9% consolidated growth rate that we reported for the 6 months ended December. And over the remainder of the fiscal year, we're going to be comping last year's Vista slight migrations to our new tech platform in large markets like the U.S., like in France and Germany that we expect to support higher year-over-year growth as well.

消費品收入略有下降，本季度的權重更大，尤其是在 11 月和 12 月。話雖如此，從 1 月至今，隨著組合轉變 [支持] 我們的有機恆定貨幣收入增長已加速回到我們報告的截至 12 月的 6 個月的 9% 綜合增長率。在本財年的剩餘時間內，我們將在美國等大型市場將去年的 Vista 輕微遷移到我們的新技術平台，例如在法國和德國，我們預計這將支持更高的同比增長以及。

From a cost perspective across Cimpress, we see signs that our year-over-year pressure on many input costs is stabilizing and in some cases costs are starting to decrease. That said, gross profit did weigh on our year-over-year results and it's still impacted by both increased input costs, net of the pricing increases that we've taken as we're still lapping cost increases that accelerated in the second half of last year, but also product mix shifts, particularly in the Vista business also had an unfavorable impact.

從整個 Cimpress 的成本角度來看，我們看到跡象表明我們對許多投入成本的同比壓力正在穩定，在某些情況下成本開始下降。也就是說，毛利潤確實影響了我們的同比業績，而且它仍然受到投入成本增加的影響，扣除我們已經採取的價格上漲，因為我們仍在考慮下半年加速的成本增長去年也是產品結構的轉變，尤其是對Vista業務也產生了不利影響。

If you look at it in total, consolidated gross profit declined year-over-year by $36 million. About $22 million of that decline was from unfavorable currency fluctuations on our gross profit that are offset throughout the rest of the P&L, including from our hedging gains. Of that remaining $14 million of operational decline in gross profit, that was really from our Vista business. All of our other businesses had constant currency growth in gross profit.

如果從總體上看，綜合毛利潤同比下降了 3600 萬美元。其中約 2200 萬美元的下降是由於我們毛利潤的不利匯率波動導致的，這些波動在其餘損益中被抵消，包括我們的對沖收益。在剩餘的 1400 萬美元運營毛利下降中，這實際上來自我們的 Vista 業務。我們所有其他業務的毛利潤都在持續增長。

So for Vista, in addition to increased input cost year-over-year, as I mentioned before, gross margins were impacted by product mix as we had constant currency decreases in consumer and in digital product bookings which represented a combined $7 million decline. Those are categories that have high variable gross margins. While we had very strong constant currency bookings growth of over $16 million in our promotional products, apparel and gifts category and that has very strong customer economics, but it has lower variable gross margins.

因此，對於 Vista，正如我之前提到的，除了投入成本同比增加外，毛利率還受到產品組合的影響，因為我們在消費者和數字產品預訂方面的貨幣不斷減少，這意味著總計減少了 700 萬美元。這些是具有高可變毛利率的類別。雖然我們的促銷產品、服裝和禮品類別的貨幣預訂量增長非常強勁，超過 1600 萬美元，並且具有非常強大的客戶經濟效益，但它的可變毛利率較低。

Sticking with Vista, our full funnel advertising test that we outlined back in September generated differential performance. New customer count and new customer bookings both grew this quarter overall for Vista and that was helped by markets where we had been testing mid and upper funnel advertising spend and new customer growth was one of the specific outcomes we were looking to deliver. As previously disclosed, it was always our plan that the spend behind that testing will be front-loaded in the first half of the year, that remains the case. And we'll now use the learnings from this testing to continue to evolve and test our channel mix going forward. In the quarter, we actually decreased our performance advertising spend year-over-year in Vista, and that includes during the consumer-driven holiday peak.

堅持使用 Vista，我們在 9 月份概述的全漏斗廣告測試產生了不同的性能。本季度 Vista 的新客戶數量和新客戶預訂量均有所增長，這得益於我們一直在測試漏斗中上層廣告支出的市場，而新客戶增長是我們希望實現的具體成果之一。正如之前披露的那樣，我們一直計劃在今年上半年提前支付測試背後的支出，現在仍然如此。現在，我們將利用從這次測試中獲得的經驗教訓，繼續發展和測試我們未來的渠道組合。在本季度，我們實際上減少了在 Vista 中的效果廣告支出，這包括在消費者驅動的假期高峰期間。

The following actions that we took to reduce operating costs as we enter the fiscal year, we took some further actions this quarter to contain our operating cost. Operating expenses, excluding restructuring charges, were up only modestly year-over-year in constant currencies despite the significant investments we made in Vista throughout last year that we're still lapping and despite continued growth in our businesses.

我們在進入財政年度時採取了以下措施來降低運營成本，本季度我們採取了一些進一步的措施來控制我們的運營成本。儘管我們去年全年對 Vista 進行了大量投資，但我們仍在進行大量投資，而且儘管我們的業務持續增長，但不包括重組費用的運營費用按固定匯率計算僅同比小幅增長。

On the net income and EPS side, we had sizable losses there due mainly to noncash drivers, including the establishment of $116 million valuation allowance that drove tax expense in our P&L but doesn't have an impact on our cash taxes. That was a reversal of a tax benefit that we reported back in fiscal 2020 for net operating losses that aren't available to use until 2025 to 2030. We still expect to use a large portion of those NOLs, but we are unable to support maintaining that deferred tax asset based on the U.S. GAAP rules. Additionally, given the weakening of the U.S. dollar against our largest currency since last quarter, we had unrealized losses from currency hedges that flow through our P&L and affect net income.

在淨收入和每股收益方面，我們在那裡有相當大的損失，主要是由於非現金驅動因素，包括建立 1.16 億美元的估值津貼，這推動了我們損益表中的稅收支出，但對我們的現金稅沒有影響。這是我們在 2020 財年報告的稅收優惠的逆轉，淨運營虧損要到 2025 年到 2030 年才能使用。我們仍然希望使用這些 NOL 中的很大一部分，但我們無法支持維持該遞延稅項資產基於美國公認會計原則。此外，鑑於自上個季度以來美元兌我們最大貨幣的匯率走軟，我們的貨幣對沖造成了未實現的損失，這些損失流經我們的損益表並影響了淨收入。

Moving on to cash flow, last quarter, we told you we increased our safety stock of certain raw materials to mitigate supply chain disruption, especially related to risk related to energy disruption in Europe. We started to work this inventory down in Q2, and actually we had cash inflows from inventory as a result when we would typically see cash outflows in our December quarter. We expect to continue to work that inventory down in the back half of FY '23 as well.

關於現金流，上個季度，我們告訴您我們增加了某些原材料的安全庫存，以減輕供應鏈中斷，尤其是與歐洲能源中斷相關的風險。我們在第二季度開始減少庫存，實際上我們有庫存現金流入，而我們通常會在 12 月季度看到現金流出。我們希望在 23 財年的後半段繼續減少庫存。

With that said from a working capital perspective, we didn't see as large but overall benefit as we have in recent years due to the lower sequential increases in our cost base given some of the actions that we've taken. And therefore, we also should not experience a significant of an outflow as we go into the third quarter.

從營運資金的角度來看，由於我們採取的一些行動，我們的成本基礎連續增長較低，因此我們沒有看到像近年來那樣大但總體的收益。因此，進入第三季度時，我們也不應該經歷大量資金外流。

During Q2, we did pay $95.6 million to acquire noncontrolling interest in our businesses. $91 million of that was for the settlement of a put option for over 90% of the noncontrolling interest in the businesses in our PrintBrothers segment, which has been our fastest-growing segment. Last quarter, we told you that we were preparing for that likelihood so that actually happened, and those payments reduced our liquidity, which was down sequentially, although still sufficient at $213 million.

在第二季度，我們確實支付了 9560 萬美元來收購我們業務的非控股權益。其中 9100 萬美元用於結算我們 PrintBrothers 部門 90% 以上的非控股權益的看跌期權，該部門一直是我們增長最快的部門。上個季度，我們告訴你我們正在為這種可能性做準備，所以這確實發生了，這些付款減少了我們的流動性，流動性連續下降，儘管仍然足夠 2.13 億美元。

Net leverage increased this quarter. We did expect an increase given the lower year-over-year EBITDA. The settlement of the put options and the noncontrolling interest payments overall, of course, had an impact on our net leverage. That alone drove about half of the increase in that leverage from last quarter. As of December -- at the end of December, our net leverage was 5.52x, and our first lien net leverage was 3.34x.

本季度淨槓桿增加。鑑於 EBITDA 同比下降，我們確實預計會有所增長。當然，看跌期權和非控制性利息支付的整體結算對我們的淨槓桿產生了影響。僅這一點就推動了上一季度槓桿率增長的一半左右。截至 12 月——12 月底，我們的淨槓桿率為 5.52 倍，我們的第一留置權淨槓桿率為 3.34 倍。

Finally, let me just say a few words about the guidance that we provided in last night's release. As I said earlier in our past commentary we described an expectation for margin compression in the first half of the year for all the reasons I outlined and profitability expansion as we were exiting the fiscal year with growth in the years ahead. We are committed to expanding profitability. We're committed to delevering the balance sheet. I previously mentioned that revenue growth in January has accelerated, but we will not rely on revenue growth alone to drive those profit improvements.

最後，讓我簡單談談我們在昨晚的發布中提供的指導。正如我早些時候在過去的評論中所說，由於我概述的所有原因，我們描述了今年上半年利潤率壓縮的預期以及隨著我們在未來幾年增長的財政年度結束時盈利能力的擴張。我們致力於擴大盈利能力。我們致力於去槓桿化資產負債表。我之前提到 1 月份的收入增長已經加快，但我們不會僅僅依靠收入增長來推動這些利潤的改善。

We've taken multiple steps over the last year to contain or reduce cost, but over the remainder of the fiscal year, we plan to take further steps to significantly reduce our cost base in support of expanding profitability as we exit the fiscal year. As I noted or we noted in our release last night, in light of anticipated cost reduction measures, we expect that we'll be able to return to our prior fiscal year high adjusted EBITDA of $400 million in fiscal 2024, that's next year. This higher adjusted EBITDA, combined with the expected free cash flow generation would bring that leverage levels to approximately 3.5x or below.

我們在去年採取了多項措施來控製或降低成本，但在本財年的剩餘時間裡，我們計劃採取進一步措施大幅降低成本基礎，以支持在本財年結束時擴大盈利能力。正如我在昨晚發布的新聞稿中指出的那樣，鑑於預期的成本削減措施，我們預計我們將能夠在明年的 2024 財年恢復到上一財年調整後的 EBITDA 高值 4 億美元。這一更高的調整後 EBITDA，加上預期的自由現金流產生，將使該槓桿水平達到約 3.5 倍或以下。

We have a mid-year strategy update plan for investors on March 21st, and there we'll share more details on the steps that we're going to take to drive that profitability expansion including cost reductions and the associated net leverage improvement.

我們在 3 月 21 日為投資者制定了年中戰略更新計劃，屆時我們將分享更多細節，說明我們將採取哪些措施來推動盈利能力的擴張，包括成本削減和相關的淨槓桿率改善。

Now I'll hand things over to Robert to say a few words about the Vista CEO transition that was referenced in the document last night.

現在我將把事情交給羅伯特，讓他就昨晚文件中提到的 Vista CEO 過渡說幾句話。

Thanks, Sean. Good morning to everyone who's calling in today. Given the guidance, as Sean just outlined, I also wanted to (inaudible) importance to Cimpress overall. When I returned to Vista 4 years ago (inaudible) straight but also areas that needed really significant attention in order to transform the business for the coming decades. In January 2019, I expected that would take a couple of years to establish strong foundations for Vista's future, and then pass the baton to Vista's next CEO. The pandemic slowed down our progress for a time, and we have been focused on (inaudible) multiple major multiyear investments. These included replatforming the Vista technology (inaudible) positioning that had been highly dependent on deep discounts, better serving higher-value customers, and adding to groundwork, upon which we can revitalize Vista's traditional strength in design and service. Thanks to the (inaudible) and thanks to the great talent that Vista already had, to new talent that we attracted over the last 4 years and to the contributions from people who (inaudible).

謝謝，肖恩。早上好，今天所有來電的人。鑑於指導，正如 Sean 剛剛概述的那樣，我也想（聽不清）整體上對 Cimpress 的重要性。當我 4 年前（聽不清）直接回到 Vista 時，還有一些領域需要真正引起重視，以便在未來幾十年轉變業務。 2019 年 1 月，我預計需要幾年時間才能為 Vista 的未來打下堅實的基礎，然後將接力棒交給 Vista 的下一任 CEO。大流行病一度減緩了我們的進展，我們一直專注於（聽不清）多項重大的多年期投資。其中包括重新調整高度依賴大幅折扣的 Vista 技術（聽不清）定位，更好地服務於更高價值的客戶，以及增加基礎工作，在此基礎上我們可以重振 Vista 在設計和服務方面的傳統優勢。感謝（聽不清）並感謝 Vista 已經擁有的優秀人才，感謝我們在過去 4 年中吸引的新人才以及（聽不清）人們的貢獻。

I told you at the Investor Day in September that Vista was ready to run, and that certainly remains true today. Notwithstanding the fact that macro conditions are causing us to look at significant cost reductions for the coming months. Vista (inaudible) improve how it serves customers, thanks to the strong foundations we've built across technology, data and analytics, market (inaudible) product ranges and the beginnings of a full spectrum of design capabilities and certainly, the talent pool at Vista (inaudible) capabilities.

我在 9 月份的投資者日告訴過你，Vista 已經準備好運行，今天肯定仍然如此。儘管宏觀環境促使我們考慮在未來幾個月大幅削減成本。 Vista（聽不清）改進了它為客戶服務的方式，這要歸功於我們在技術、數據和分析、市場（聽不清）產品系列和全方位設計能力的開端，當然還有 Vista 的人才庫建立的堅實基礎（聽不清）能力。

That's why at this juncture, it's the right time for me to now pass the baton to Vista's new Chief Executive Officer; Florian Baumgartner. Under Florian's leadership and his strong executive team, I expect (inaudible) progress steadily towards its North Star to be the design and marketing partner for small businesses while delivering the financial results (inaudible) to support what Sean has just outlined, and the continued growth beyond that.

這就是為什麼在這個關頭，現在正是我將接力棒交給 Vista 新任首席執行官的原因；弗洛里安鮑姆加特納。在 Florian 的領導和他強大的執行團隊下，我希望（聽不清）穩步邁向其 North Star 成為小型企業的設計和營銷合作夥伴，同時提供財務結果（聽不清）以支持肖恩剛才概述的內容，並持續增長除此之外。

In my role as (inaudible) CEO, I look forward to spending my time supporting all of our business abilities to drive both higher level (inaudible) and higher financial returns for our investors as we focus on delivering the guidance outlined in yesterday's release (inaudible) and growing the per share value of Cimpress.

作為（聽不清）首席執行官，我期待著花時間支持我們所有的業務能力，為我們的投資者帶來更高水平（聽不清）和更高的財務回報，因為我們專注於提供昨天發布的指南（聽不清） ) 並增加 Cimpress 的每股價值。

With that, let's open up to questions.

有了這個，讓我們打開問題。

Great. Thanks, Robert. (Operator Instructions). We received a significant number of pre-submitted questions as well. Also thank you so much, we really do appreciate that. There -- in some overlapping areas, which is good. So there's going to be a couple of cases where I will ask a representative question that we got from multiple people, and then our answers will do our best to cover everybody's questions. We'll get to as many as we can, and we'll make sure that we get to a variety of topics that are on people's minds.

偉大的。謝謝，羅伯特。 （操作員說明）。我們也收到了大量預先提交的問題。也非常感謝你，我們真的很感激。在某些重疊區域，這很好。因此，在某些情況下，我會問一個我們從多人那裡得到的有代表性的問題，然後我們的答案將盡力涵蓋每個人的問題。我們將盡可能多地討論，我們將確保我們討論人們關心的各種話題。

So let's take our first question, which was a pre-submitted one, which is this: In the last earnings document published in October, you wrote, "as we publish this, our customer demand picture remains strong across Cimpress, however, organic constant currency growth has slowed materially from the mid- to high teens to the mid-single digits. What happened in November and December that changed things for the worst."

那麼讓我們來看看我們的第一個問題，這是一個預先提交的問題，它是這樣的：在 10 月份發布的最後一份收益文件中，您寫道，“在我們發布此文件時，我們的客戶需求在 Cimpress 中仍然強勁，但是，有機常數貨幣增長已從中高位大幅放緩至中個位數。11 月和 12 月發生的事情使情況變得最糟糕。”

Sean, do you want to take that one?

肖恩，你要拿那個嗎？

Yes, I'll take that. So that's right. A lot of that impact is from Vista. And so in October -- October was a stronger month for Vista than November and December. One of the big drivers there is mix and in particular, the mix of consumer. Just to put that in perspective, consumer in our October bookings was about 13% of our overall bookings. In November, it was 31% and December is 38%. So you can see the weight really ramps up throughout the quarter. And that really does have an impact on overall growth kind of month by month, especially given the fact that the consumer category declined slightly year-over-year.

是的，我會接受的。所以這是對的。很多影響來自 Vista。所以在 10 月——對於 Vista 來說，10 月比 11 月和 12 月表現更好。其中一個主要驅動因素是混合，尤其是消費者的混合。從這個角度來看，我們 10 月份預訂的消費者約占我們總預訂量的 13%。 11 月為 31%，12 月為 38%。所以你可以看到整個季度的重量確實在增加。這確實確實對逐月的整體增長產生了影響，尤其是考慮到消費者類別同比略有下降的事實。

So that's the big driver. I think it is also worth noting that just from an advertising perspective in Vista, and this is in our results from last night, but our performance advertising was 13% of revenue this quarter. It was 16% last year. And we had made some choices, including through the high-volume weeks to operate with tighter payback thresholds and stick to that. In October, we were also at the full pace of our full funnel testing, and in particular, kind of the full rate of spend in our mid- and upper funnel categories where we were testing in certain markets. So ad spend did have some impact on that month-by-month profile as well, but product mix is the big driver.

這就是最大的驅動力。我認為還值得注意的是，僅從 Vista 的廣告角度來看，這是我們昨晚的結果，但我們的效果廣告佔本季度收入的 13%。去年是 16%。我們做出了一些選擇，包括在高交易量的幾週內以更嚴格的回報門檻運營並堅持下去。 10 月，我們也進行了完整的漏斗測試，特別是我們在某些市場測試的中上漏斗類別的全部支出。因此，廣告支出確實也對逐月概況產生了一些影響，但產品組合是主要驅動力。

Outside of Vista, there really was not one trend. In some of our businesses there was acceleration in growth throughout the quarter, and some others there was deceleration.

在 Vista 之外，確實沒有一種趨勢。在我們的一些業務中，整個季度的增長都在加速，而另一些業務則出現減速。

Great, thank you, Sean. So I'm going to stick with you for the next question which was on revenue growth. So was there a slowdown in growth in the Vista segment revenue ex consumer products? And another person asked a similar question, what was the constant currency growth rate for the business, marketing products in the quarter.

太好了，謝謝你，肖恩。所以我將繼續回答下一個關於收入增長的問題。那麼，Vista 細分市場不包括消費產品的收入增長是否放緩？另一個人問了一個類似的問題，該季度業務、營銷產品的恆定貨幣增長率是多少。

Yes, it did slowed slightly of constant currency growth rate for -- just for the small business products, it was a little bit lower than Q1. That number was a little bit over 7% growth in those categories, so ex consumer in the December quarter. And then just to kind of bring that all the way forward to today, as I mentioned in the upfront remarks, our constant currency growth in January overall on a consolidated basis, accelerated above the 9% year-to-date growth that we reported for the 6 months of December. Vista's bookings growth did accelerate in January as well. That's actually one of the biggest components of that acceleration and that's also helped by less consumer in the mix as well.

是的，它確實略微放緩了固定貨幣增長率 - 僅對於小型企業產品，它略低於第一季度。在這些類別中，這個數字略高於 7%，因此在 12 月季度的前消費者。然後就把它一直帶到今天，正如我在前面的評論中提到的，我們 1 月份在綜合基礎上的貨幣持續增長，加速超過了我們報告的 9% 的年初至今增長12 月的 6 個月。 1 月份 Vista 的預訂量增長也確實加快了。這實際上是這種加速的最大組成部分之一，這也得益於消費者減少。

Great. Okay. So sticking with consumer, this may be one that you both (inaudible) in on, but we'll start with Robert. So this is the second year in a row where we have had poor performance in consumer products, which has historically been an important profit driver for the business. Two questions. Does Vista's consumer products offerings still resonate with the consumer? If yes, what gives you confidence and what steps are being taken today to avoid another poor seasonal period next year? And if consumer products aren't as important to Cimpress moving forward due to changes in what the consumer wants and/or our inability or unwillingness to meet those changes, what structural changes need to happen to make the Q1, Q3 and Q4 relatively more profitable quarters?

偉大的。好的。所以堅持消費者，這可能是你們倆（聽不清）都參與的，但我們將從羅伯特開始。因此，這是我們連續第二年在消費產品方面表現不佳，這在歷史上一直是該業務的重要利潤驅動因素。兩個問題。 Vista 的消費產品是否仍能引起消費者的共鳴？如果是，是什麼讓您有信心？今天正在採取哪些措施來避免明年又出現一個季節性不景氣的時期？如果由於消費者需求的變化和/或我們無法或不願意滿足這些變化，消費產品對 Cimpress 的發展不再那麼重要，那麼需要進行哪些結構性變化才能使第一季度、第三季度和第四季度的利潤相對更高宿舍？

Thank you. Frankly, this is a topic we (inaudible). You're right, the consumer is an important part of Vista's profitability, and it's been traditionally that remains the case. (inaudible) numbers on it, on an annual basis, it's roughly 20% or so of revenues, although, of course, it's higher in Q2. One thing, Sean, and you can jump in and correct me if I'm wrong. I think there was a thing I mean, you just mentioned a moment ago that performance advertising, we've limited (inaudible) pulled back last quarter, it was 13% in the quarter versus 16% the year before. So we have made some (technical difficulty) cap rate with tighter paybacks.

謝謝。坦率地說，這是我們（聽不清）的主題。你是對的，消費者是 Vista 盈利能力的重要組成部分，傳統上一直如此。 （聽不清）數字，按年計算，它大約佔收入的 20% 左右，當然，第二季度更高。一件事，肖恩，如果我錯了，你可以跳進來糾正我。我想我的意思是，你剛才提到效果廣告，我們在上個季度限制（聽不清）撤回，本季度為 13%，而去年同期為 16%。因此，我們已經取得了一些（技術難度）上限率和更嚴格的回報率。

But if you go beyond that, I think the core is we are focusing so much on small customers where we have our biggest opportunity. A consumer has had less focus. And -- we had to be clear in terms (technical difficulty) small business to move that, and that certainly has impacted things like our brand messaging, our go-to-market and resource allocation generally. Again, the (inaudible) business, like all of this traditional business was very discount driven. And as we (inaudible) away from discounts for consumers, but there has been a shift there. That said, we have created a dedicated consumer team that looked (inaudible) added resources so they can be focused on consumer around the year rather than just seeing it as a holiday. And that team has improved the product and service offering already this year. We had planned for a flat year overall in (inaudible) $4 million, although we did that with less advertising spend, as I just mentioned (inaudible).

但如果你超越這一點，我認為核心是我們非常關注我們擁有最大機會的小客戶。消費者的注意力較少。而且——我們必須明確（技術難度）小企業才能轉移它，這肯定影響了我們的品牌信息、我們的上市和資源分配等事情。同樣，（聽不清）業務，就像所有這些傳統業務一樣，都是以折扣為導向的。隨著我們（聽不清）遠離消費者折扣，但那裡已經發生了轉變。也就是說，我們已經創建了一個專門的消費者團隊，看起來（聽不清）增加了資源，因此他們可以全年專注於消費者，而不僅僅是將其視為假期。該團隊今年已經改進了產品和服務。我們原計劃全年（聽不清）400 萬美元，但正如我剛才提到的（聽不清），我們用較少的廣告支出做到了這一點。

So the consumer category should also benefit from the improvements that we have been making and will be making (inaudible). So it could be getting to the ease of getting new products launched, improved experiences on the site for (technical difficulty), integration of design services and many other things. Now -- another thing that should, over time, help consumers is (inaudible) we're introducing for business, for example, promotional products have interesting use cases for consumers where drinkware and apparel are good examples. And consumer-focused promotional products (technical difficulty) and have been performing well during holiday. That being said, we do recognize that consumer is a far -- is a (technical difficulty), and we see the competitive set there when holiday season comes around really spiking up (technical difficulty) advertising goes up. And we did not -- we intentionally did not chase bookings, we really try to be disciplined to stick to our (technical difficulty) thresholds.

因此，消費者類別也應該受益於我們已經和將要進行的改進（聽不清）。因此，可以輕鬆推出新產品、改進網站體驗（技術難度）、設計服務集成和許多其他事情。現在——隨著時間的推移，另一件應該幫助消費者的事情是（聽不清）我們正在為企業推出，例如，促銷產品對消費者有有趣的用例，其中飲具和服裝就是很好的例子。以及以消費者為中心的促銷產品（技術難度），並在假期期間表現良好。話雖這麼說，我們確實認識到消費者是一個遠 - 是一個（技術困難），並且我們看到當假期到來時那裡的競爭環境確實激增（技術困難）廣告上升。而且我們沒有——我們有意不追逐預訂，我們真的試圖自律以堅持我們的（技術難度）門檻。

A couple of more comments. I'd say we do have some key products like holiday cards, invitations and announcements (technical difficulty) seeing changes in behavior over time that are likely leading to overall market declines. But if you look at consumer (inaudible) overall category, we still feel there's a great opportunity there. Again, it's important to us, it's second (inaudible) business that comes from small business. But going forward, we'll keep pushing and having consumer benefit, (technical difficulty) across the site.

還有一些評論。我想說我們確實有一些關鍵產品，如節日賀卡、邀請函和公告（技術難度），隨著時間的推移，行為會發生變化，這可能會導致整體市場下滑。但如果你看看消費者（聽不清）的整體類別，我們仍然覺得那裡有很大的機會。同樣，這對我們很重要，這是來自小企業的第二（聽不清）業務。但展望未來，我們將繼續在整個網站上推動並讓消費者受益（技術困難）。

Sean, do you want to add anything?

肖恩，你想補充什麼嗎？

Yes, I think that covers. Just to touch on -- I think there was part of the question, which was the things that we can do in other quarters to change if we are going to not focus on consumer, which is, as you heard from Robert, not the case, it's still as important. It just has been secondary. And the answer there is basically everything that we're doing across Vista to support small businesses, how we serve them, how we partner with them and how we can serve them across their entire lifestyle -- sorry, life cycle and in turn, increase volume across the year in serving small business customers in addition to improvements that we can continue to make in consumer as well.

是的，我認為這涵蓋了。只是談一談 - 我認為問題的一部分是，如果我們不關註消費者，我們可以在其他方面做一些改變，正如你從羅伯特那裡聽到的那樣，情況並非如此，還是一樣重要。它只是次要的。答案基本上是我們在 Vista 中為支持小型企業所做的一切，我們如何為他們服務，我們如何與他們合作，以及我們如何在他們的整個生活方式中為他們服務——對不起，生命週期，反過來，增加除了我們可以繼續在消費者方面做出的改進之外，我們全年為小型企業客戶提供服務的數量。

Okay. I'm going to move into a couple of questions that we received on both pricing and inflation. So we'll start on the pricing front. Sean, how much pricing has been taken in Vista and in other businesses? Also how much was overall inflationary pressure? How much more pricing is there to take over the course of the next 12 to 18 months?

好的。我將進入我們收到的關於定價和通貨膨脹的幾個問題。所以我們將從定價方面開始。 Sean，Vista 和其他企業的定價是多少？還有整體通脹壓力有多大？在接下來的 12 到 18 個月中，還有多少定價要接管？

Yes. This is an important question, and frankly, it's one that -- it's difficult to answer with precision because there are a lot of nuances here, business by business, market by market. And there's all sorts of impacts of changes in volume and discount rate and mix and so on. So let me -- I'll do the best to answer here. We'll also think about how we could package this up as well in our March session to add -- add a little meat to this. But -- all of our businesses have seen increased input cost. We've been talking about that for the last 4 quarters in particular, 5 quarters. Some have been impacted more than others. So just as an example of that, things like energy costs. In Italy, they've increased a lot. In France, they have it, right? So there's things like that, that will have an impact business by business.

是的。這是一個重要的問題，坦率地說，這是一個很難準確回答的問題，因為這裡有很多細微差別，逐個業務，逐個市場。數量、折扣率和組合等方面的變化會產生各種影響。所以讓我——我會盡力在這裡回答。我們還將考慮如何在 3 月份的會議中將其打包，以添加一些內容。但是——我們所有的企業都看到了投入成本的增加。我們一直在談論過去 4 個季度，特別是 5 個季度。有些人比其他人受到的影響更大。舉個例子，比如能源成本。在意大利，他們增加了很多。在法國，他們有，對吧？所以有這樣的事情，這將對企業產生影響。

There's also, obviously, depending on the raw material profile for our businesses, that has a big driver. Some impacted more than others, some are more directly tied to commodity prices, including paper. And in other businesses, including, for example, for National Pen, they do a lot of sourcing from China. There we've actually seen, and this is an overall market thing, we've seen meaningful decreases in things like inbound freight costs, which are more material for that business. So there's a lot of nuance here.

顯然，根據我們業務的原材料情況，這也有很大的推動力。有些比其他影響更大，有些更直接地與大宗商品價格相關，包括紙張。在其他業務中，例如 National Pen，他們從中國進行大量採購。我們實際上已經看到，這是一個整體市場的事情，我們已經看到入境貨運成本等方面的顯著下降，這對該業務來說更為重要。所以這裡有很多細微差別。

In our Upload and Print businesses, in National Pen and to some extent in BuildASign, we've been able to largely offset those cost increases with price increases, and that remained the case through Q2. Again, differences business by business. They're not fully offset, but we've been able to largely offset those cost increases.

在我們的上傳和打印業務中，在 National Pen 以及某種程度上在 BuildASign 中，我們已經能夠通過價格上漲在很大程度上抵消這些成本增長，並且這種情況一直持續到第二季度。同樣，業務因業務而異。它們沒有完全抵消，但我們已經能夠在很大程度上抵消這些成本增加。

In Vista, of course, our largest business, that's where we've seen the most net impact, the timing of the ramp-up in those cost increases we talked about last year coincided with our technology migration that we're doing, some of our largest markets that delayed when we could start to put those pricing benefits in market. We implemented broad-based price increases back in June and then we continue it from there. We talked last quarter about some of the benefits we are seeing. Those benefits were higher in the September quarter than they were in December because of the mix of consumer and the level -- also the level of discounting for holiday promotions. And the consumer, just given the price sensitivity there and the fact that we had brought down our discount levels over the last 2, 3 years, there, it's a more price-conscious customer. There is more price sensitivity on the consumer side. And so we've done less in terms of the pricing benefits there. And that has an impact given the mix in the December quarter.

當然，在我們最大的業務 Vista 中，這是我們看到最淨影響的地方，我們去年談到的成本增加的時間恰逢我們正在進行的技術遷移，其中一些我們最大的市場推遲了我們可以開始將這些定價優勢投放市場的時間。我們在 6 月份實施了廣泛的價格上漲，然後我們從那裡繼續。我們在上個季度談到了我們看到的一些好處。由於消費者和水平的混合，這些福利在 9 月季度高於 12 月——還有假日促銷的折扣水平。而消費者，考慮到那裡的價格敏感性以及我們在過去 2、3 年中降低了折扣水平的事實，那裡的消費者對價格更加敏感。消費者對價格更加敏感。因此，我們在定價方面做得更少。考慮到 12 月季度的組合，這會產生影響。

We said back in our September Investor Day that for Vista, we expected to deliver at least $20 million through pricing changes in FY '23. There's, again, a lot of nuance to that, but we're definitely -- we're on track to that -- for that, we're on track to achieve more than that. But the relative benefit in the December quarter was less than it was in the September quarter. I think as we get to the March quarter and that mix shifts back again more towards the small business products, we'll see more benefit in Q3.

我們在 9 月份的投資者日表示，對於 Vista，我們預計通過 23 財年的定價變化交付至少 2000 萬美元。再次，這有很多細微差別，但我們肯定 - 我們正在朝著這個方向前進 - 為此，我們有望取得比這更多的成就。但 12 月季度的相對收益低於 9 月季度。我認為，當我們進入 3 月季度時，這種組合將再次更多地轉向小型企業產品，我們將在第三季度看到更多收益。

There is still room for improvement, especially on the Vista side, it continue to optimize. We have specific plans for that. We have teams that are focused on that every day. But I do think that the pace of that especially after this fiscal year is likely to slow. So to the question of kind of what's left to go get, I think the opportunity set is lower than it was over the last year, just given the steps that we've already taken. But there still is opportunity, and we monitor that very closely.

還有改進的空間，尤其是Vista這邊，繼續優化。我們對此有具體的計劃。我們的團隊每天都專注於此。但我確實認為，尤其是在本財年之後，這方面的步伐可能會放緩。因此，關於還有什麼可做的問題，我認為機會集比去年低，只是考慮到我們已經採取的步驟。但仍有機會，我們會密切關注。

Great, and then this one can be, I think, a quick follow-up because you've already talked a bit about what we're seeing in terms of the cost inputs lately. But inflation peaked in the late summer and has been gradually coming down, but the gross margin pressure this past quarter was more pronounced than 2 quarters ago, 400 basis points of compression this quarter versus 200 quarters ago. Why is that?

太好了，我認為這可以是一個快速跟進，因為您已經談到了我們最近在成本投入方面看到的情況。但通脹在夏末達到頂峰並逐漸回落，但過去一個季度的毛利率壓力比兩個季度前更為明顯，本季度壓縮 400 個基點，而前兩個季度為 200 個基點。這是為什麼？

Yes, just like anything, we will experience the market over time. And when it comes to how we buy, we always seek to be below the market, but we have to move with the market over time because a lot of that is underpinned by things like commodity pricing and so on. But we don't move exactly with the market. So we do see stabilization, I mentioned that, but we don't see cost overall coming down yet -- at least in most of our main input costs. Although, as I just mentioned, things like inbound freight are down quite a bit, and we're seeing stabilization elsewhere. So cost did still have an impact over the last 6 months because I think the question is referring to gross margins in the December quarter versus the June quarter. So costs still did have an impact, although the shape of that is definitely improving.

是的，就像任何事情一樣，我們將隨著時間的推移體驗市場。當談到我們的購買方式時，我們總是尋求低於市場，但我們必須隨著時間的推移與市場一起移動，因為其中很多都受到商品定價等因素的支撐。但我們並不完全隨市場而動。所以我們確實看到穩定，我提到過，但我們還沒有看到整體成本下降——至少在我們的大部分主要投入成本中是這樣。儘管，正如我剛才提到的，入境運費等情況下降了很多，我們在其他地方也看到了穩定。因此，成本在過去 6 個月中仍然有影響，因為我認為問題是指 12 月季度與 6 月季度的毛利率。所以成本仍然有影響，儘管這種影響肯定在改善。

Product mix, again, here is a big driver. So in some of our businesses, gross margins did -- sorry, did increase in the December quarter versus June. And in some cases, they were lower. But again, Vista has the biggest impact here. In Vista, our gross margins were down about 400 basis points in the December quarter versus June, if you compare them back with June. There's really 3 drivers to that. One is that, like I said before, consumers where we've done less on a net pricing basis given the competitiveness there and the price sensitivity and consumers much higher (inaudible) in the December quarter. Two, business cards and stationery that category is amongst our highest variable gross margins, and that has a higher concentration in the June quarter. There's a little bit of seasonality there, but that was 32% of our bookings in the June quarter, it was 25% of our bookings in the December quarter. So again, mix.

再次，產品組合是一個很大的驅動力。因此，在我們的一些業務中，毛利率確實——抱歉，與 6 月份相比，12 月份季度確實有所增加。在某些情況下，它們更低。但同樣，Vista 在這裡的影響最大。在 Vista 中，我們的毛利率在 12 月季度比 6 月下降了大約 400 個基點，如果你將它們與 6 月進行比較的話。確實有 3 個驅動因素。一個是，就像我之前說過的那樣，考慮到那裡的競爭力以及價格敏感度和消費者在 12 月季度要高得多（聽不清），我們在淨定價基礎上做得更少的消費者。第二，名片和文具這一類別是我們最高的可變毛利率之一，並且在 6 月季度集中度更高。那裡有一點季節性，但這是我們 6 月季度預訂量的 32%，占我們 12 月季度預訂量的 25%。再次，混合。

And then the other thing is that we did have a -- we mentioned this in yesterday's release, we really had a $3.1 million charge in Q2 that comes through gross profit. And so that's about (inaudible) points alone of that overall 400 basis points -- so consumer, some of the business card mix and then that charge has an impact as well.

然後另一件事是我們確實有一個——我們在昨天的新聞稿中提到了這一點，我們在第二季度確實有 310 萬美元的費用來自毛利潤。因此，這僅是總體 400 個基點中的（聽不清）點——所以消費者、一些名片組合以及收費也會產生影響。

Robert, we continue to grow headcount at a time when results are weak and other businesses are entering cost-saving mode given the macro uncertainty. Why does it make sense to continue to add where we are adding.

羅伯特，鑑於宏觀不確定性，我們在業績不佳且其他企業進入成本節約模式的時候繼續增加員工人數。為什麼在我們添加的地方繼續添加是有意義的。

Well, first of all (technical difficulty) cost savings makes sense given the macro uncertainty. We certainly talked about that in our prepared comments that we released last night. So some of the growth in headcount comes because we are growing in our Upload and Print businesses, but if I focus on Vista, there (technical difficulty) that impact our operating expenses and our fixed costs. So in the plants, in customer care (technical difficulty) year-over-year in the quarter. We also have significantly curtailed hiring across [different roles] and in the Cimpress central teams as well, and actually reduced those back in June. Now (technical difficulty) we provide is still related to Vista, our headcount is up, but that is really because of the staffing for a seasonal peak (technical difficulty) largest production facility in Canada, where these roles are classified as permanent. But you can see in our normal pattern that (technical difficulty) in the March quarter.

好吧，首先（技術難度）考慮到宏觀不確定性，成本節約是有意義的。我們在昨晚發布的準備好的評論中當然談到了這一點。因此，員工人數的一些增長是因為我們在上傳和打印業務方面的增長，但如果我專注於 Vista，那麼（技術困難）會影響我們的運營費用和固定成本。因此，在工廠中，客戶服務（技術難度）在本季度同比增長。我們還大幅減少了[不同角色]和 Cimpress 中央團隊的招聘，實際上早在 6 月份就減少了。現在（技術難度）我們提供的仍然與 Vista 相關，我們的員工人數增加了，但這實際上是因為加拿大最大的季節性高峰（技術難度）生產設施的人員配備，這些角色被歸類為永久性角色。但是你可以在我們的正常模式中看到 3 月季度的（技術困難）。

Great. Okay. So I'm going to ask 1 or 2 more questions on the quarterly results, and then we're going to shift to a couple of other topics. But this one is on geographic growth in Vista. I get the economy isn't what we thought it would be, though I have been hearing Europe is worse than the U.S. And here, your European business continues to look great. While the predominantly U.S.-focused Vista continues to lag, especially in gross profit. More context on any callout drivers on what's good in Europe or bad in the U.S. would be helpful.

偉大的。好的。因此，我將再問 1 或 2 個關於季度業績的問題，然後我們將轉向其他幾個主題。但這個是關於 Vista 中的地理增長。我知道經濟不是我們想像的那樣，雖然我一直聽說歐洲比美國更糟糕。在這裡，你的歐洲業務看起來仍然很好。雖然主要以美國為中心的 Vista 繼續落後，尤其是在毛利潤方面。更多關於歐洲好壞美國的任何標註驅動程序的背景信息將會有所幫助。

Sure. Good question. First I'd start out by saying our Upload and Print businesses (inaudible) 4-plus years ago, we really pushed to more autonomy and more decentralization. (inaudible) entire teams in both of those businesses are just doing a great job. They're firing on all cylinders, and we're just really proud of what they're doing and that's having a positive impact there. We do believe this market overall has room for consolidation, and then we can lead that. And I think (inaudible) a competitive market like the Upload and Print market in Europe, the fact they were doing well demonstrates that fleet.

當然。好問題。首先，我首先要說 4 多年前我們的上傳和打印業務（聽不清），我們確實推動了更多的自主權和權力下放。 （聽不清）這兩個業務的整個團隊都做得很好。他們正在全力以赴，我們為他們所做的事情感到非常自豪，這在那裡產生了積極的影響。我們確實相信這個市場總體上有整合的空間，然後我們可以引領它。我認為（聽不清）競爭激烈的市場，如歐洲的上傳和打印市場，他們做得很好的事實證明了這一點。

Now at Vista, we are actually seeing higher constant currency growth outside the U.S. compared (technical difficulty) doing in the U.S. So that's true in Canada, it's true in Europe and it's true in Australia. Now consumer revenue (inaudible) are up year-over-year, down slightly overall, but there are a few markets where it grew stronger outside of the U.S. I think the main issues that we really have to understand our customer sentiment. They do (inaudible) drop in some business-oriented products but again, that changes market by market. If I look at the ability to (technical difficulty) that changes market to market. And again, I realize in this comment, I'm mixing Upload and Print and Vista, but we've been able to (inaudible) get quite a bit of pricing changes in Upload and Print earlier. We will be lapping some of those and (inaudible) moderating there.

現在在 Vista，我們實際上看到美國以外的貨幣持續增長更高（技術難度）與美國相比。所以這在加拿大是真的，在歐洲也是如此，在澳大利亞也是如此。現在，消費者收入（聽不清）同比增長，總體略有下降，但在美國以外的一些市場，它增長強勁。我認為我們真正需要了解客戶情緒的主要問題。他們確實（聽不清）減少了一些面向業務的產品，但同樣，這會因市場而異。如果我看一下改變市場的能力（技術難度）。再一次，我意識到在這條評論中，我將上傳和打印與 Vista 混合使用，但我們已經能夠（聽不清）早些時候在上傳和打印中獲得相當多的價格變化。我們將對其中一些進行研磨，並（聽不清）在那裡進行調節。

Sean, you may add a few more comments. I guess the last thing is in the U.S. (technical difficulty) market is tough and competitive. As I mentioned, we didn't chase revenues with advertising. And in this quarter, (technical difficulty) that has a big impact, especially in the U.S. Do you have any other thoughts on the difference between Europe and...

肖恩，你可以再添加一些評論。我想最後一件事是在美國（技術難度）市場艱難且競爭激烈。正如我提到的，我們沒有通過廣告來追逐收入。在這個季度，（技術難度）產生了很大的影響，尤其是在美國。你對歐洲和……之間的區別有什麼其他想法嗎？

Yes, I think you covered most of it. We've seen -- I think the -- as you indicated, the -- a lot of the -- sort of differential growth in our Upload and Print businesses versus let's say, Vista in North America is not necessarily market specific. There's other dynamics at play there, including the speed at which they've been able to operate, crack into new product categories, acquiring new customers, especially over the last 2 years, take share. And so there's market specific, but also kind of business-specific factors there.

是的，我想你涵蓋了大部分內容。我們已經看到 - 我認為 - 正如你所指出的那樣，我們的上傳和打印業務的 - 很多 - 與比方說，北美的 Vista 不一定是市場特定的。那裡還有其他動力在起作用，包括他們能夠運營的速度、進入新產品類別、獲得新客戶，尤其是在過去兩年中，佔據份額。因此，有特定於市場的因素，也有特定於業務的因素。

I think just in Vista, our absolute growth in revenue was basically -- roughly the same between Europe and North America in Q2. Just to kind of give you a sense of that weight. And I think there's all sorts of dynamics here. A lot of it does come down to also product mix. You see that as a kind of a theme throughout this call, where the performance of consumer had a little bit more weight on the U.S. in particular, than it did in Europe in terms of overall growth. That said, PPAG growth is stronger in North America, as well in absolute dollars. So all those things are at play. All these markets are in focus. The only other thing I'd say is there are a couple of European markets that have been very strong, especially France. France is also where we have been doing some of our full funnel testing, and that had differential performance this quarter, as I referred to earlier. So I think that's it.

我認為僅在 Vista 中，我們的收入絕對增長基本上與歐洲和北美在第二季度大致相同。只是為了讓你感覺到那種重量。我認為這裡有各種各樣的動態。很多確實歸結為產品組合。你認為這是整個電話會議的一個主題，在整體增長方面，與歐洲相比，消費者的表現對美國的影響尤其大一些。也就是說，北美的 PPAG 增長更為強勁，以絕對美元計算也是如此。所以所有這些事情都在起作用。所有這些市場都是焦點。我要說的另一件事是，有幾個歐洲市場非常強勁，尤其是法國。法國也是我們一直在進行一些完整漏斗測試的地方，正如我之前提到的那樣，本季度的表現有所不同。所以我想就是這樣。

Great, okay. I'm going to shift gears to some questions on liquidity and capital allocation. So first one, Sean, is on the minority interest purchase this quarter. What was the EBITDA multiple of that acquisition? And what will that do to for our cash flow going forward, if anything? I'll stop there and please...

太好了，好吧。我將轉向一些關於流動性和資本配置的問題。所以第一個，肖恩，是本季度的少數股權購買。該收購的 EBITDA 倍數是多少？如果有的話，這對我們未來的現金流有什麼影響？我會停在那裡，請...

Yes, sure. So the way that this arrangement works, we had a -- so there was a reciprocal put and call, and the valuation for that was -- it was a formulaic valuation that had 2 main inputs. One was revenue growth, and the other one was -- revenue growth in order to determine the multiple and then unlevered free cash flow before tax to determine the actual value. So that's kind of -- that's how that worked. These businesses had revenue growth last year, which was over 30%. And actually, 30% was the kind of the cap in terms of how that multiple table worked.

是的，當然。所以這種安排的運作方式，我們有一個 - 所以有一個相互的看跌期權和看漲期權，其估值是 - 這是一個有兩個主要輸入的公式估值。一個是收入增長，另一個是——收入增長以確定倍數，然後是無槓桿的稅前自由現金流以確定實際價值。所以這有點 - 這就是它的工作原理。這些業務去年的收入增長超過 30%。實際上，就多表的工作方式而言，30% 是上限。

But they also have really high free cash flow conversion. There we had some caps in terms of how that valuation was calculated in terms of contribution of certain elements of cash flow. The way I would think about this is that in terms of a multiple, we paid between 8x and 9x the unlevered free cash flow before tax on these businesses for that purchase of the noncontrolling interest. These are businesses that continue to grow at rates that are amongst the highest across Cimpress as a segment. They are the highest over 20% year-to-date. And going forward, in terms of the impact on our future cash flow, what that purchase means is that we will maintain almost all of the cash flow generated from those businesses, whereas before -- we only retained about 90%. The other amount that were roughly 11% we were paying out as effectively a dividend to those minority holders in the past, so we'll retain more of the cash that they generate.

但他們也有非常高的自由現金流轉換。關於如何根據某些現金流要素的貢獻計算估值，我們有一些上限。我的想法是，就倍數而言，我們為購買非控股權益向這些企業支付了 8 到 9 倍的稅前無槓桿自由現金流。這些業務繼續以 Cimpress 細分市場中最高的速度增長。他們是今年迄今為止最高的超過 20%。展望未來，就對我們未來現金流的影響而言，此次收購意味著我們將保留這些業務產生的幾乎所有現金流，而之前——我們只保留了大約 90%。其他大約 11% 的金額，我們過去實際上是向這些少數股東支付了股息，因此我們將保留他們產生的更多現金。

Great. And just a quick follow-up that we had as a live question. What other noncontrolling interests are left to be put to us. Is there -- what's the materiality of what's left potentially?

偉大的。只是我們作為一個實時問題進行的快速跟進。還有哪些其他非控制性利益要交給我們。有沒有——剩下的潛在物質的重要性是什麼？

Yes, it's pretty small now. So the -- you have a little over 1% of these PrintBrothers businesses that remains. Otherwise, we -- in addition to the PrintBrothers put option that we settled -- there was also the purchase of noncontrolling interest in BuildASign. So that's now cleared out. All of this is disclosed in our 10-Q. We have a table that kind of walks through that in the footnote, so you can refer there. But the short story is that this is the vast majority of it.

是的，現在很小了。所以 - 你剩下的這些 PrintBrothers 業務略多於 1%。否則，除了我們結算的 PrintBrothers 看跌期權之外，我們還購買了 BuildASign 的非控制權益。所以現在已經清除了。所有這些都在我們的 10-Q 中披露。我們在腳註中提供了一張表格，可以在其中進行參考。但簡而言之，這是其中的絕大多數。

Right. Okay. Any updated thoughts on the liquidity threshold at which point the company would be willing to deploy capital for bond repurchases? We had multiple questions on bond repurchases.

正確的。好的。關於公司願意為債券回購部署資本的流動性門檻有何最新想法？我們對債券回購有多個問題。

Yes, there's no specific number that we've given. We'll continue to not give a specific number. We've said consistently over the last couple of quarters that our focus and our priority has been on liquidity. That remains the case. That was especially in focus because we viewed and we had previously disclosed that there was a high likelihood that we would be settling that put option that I just went through. And so therefore, necessitated a focus on liquidity versus taking advantage of things like the way that our bonds we are trading.

是的，我們沒有給出具體數字。我們將繼續不給出具體數字。在過去的幾個季度中，我們一直表示我們的重點和優先事項一直是流動性。情況仍然如此。這一點尤其受到關注，因為我們查看了並且我們之前曾透露我們很可能會解決我剛剛經歷的那個看跌期權。因此，有必要關注流動性，而不是利用我們交易債券的方式。

We don't have any active plans to repurchase our bonds. Liquidity remains the focus. I think that as we execute on the things that we outlined in our guidance and we execute on our delevering over the quarters ahead and throughout FY '24, then capital allocation opportunities start to open up, but there are no plans to -- no active plans to buy our bonds.

我們沒有任何積極的計劃來回購我們的債券。流動性仍然是焦點。我認為，當我們執行我們在指南中概述的事情並在未來幾個季度和整個 24 財年執行去槓桿化時，資本配置機會開始出現，但沒有計劃 - 沒有積極的計劃購買我們的債券。

Great. So a couple of people noticed, obviously, that our first lien leverage was above the leverage test if we were to have any amounts drawn at the end of the quarter. So there's been some questions on our revolver. So would we think about extending the maturity of the revolver in the near term, would we think about amending the credit facility in order to get a waiver? Multiple questions on that front, Sean.

偉大的。因此，顯然有幾個人注意到，如果我們要在本季度末提取任何金額，我們的第一筆留置權槓桿將高於槓桿測試。所以我們的左輪手槍有一些問題。那麼我們是否會考慮在短期內延長左輪手槍的期限，我們是否會考慮修改信貸安排以獲得豁免？關於這方面的多個問題，肖恩。

Yes, no. So the short answer to all that is no. The revolver matures in 2026. We aren't actively looking to extend that. Of course, as we get closer to that maturity, we will. But that's in the sort of 12 to 18 months' time frame, not in the -- next kind of 3 months' time frame. And then as it relates to the first lien leverage, so just to be sure it's clear as you referenced to the question, Meredith, that only applies. That test only applies to the extent that we have a draw in balance at the end of the quarter. We had not had that. We don't plan to have that. We are just slightly above that first lien test, which is at 3.25x first lien leverage. However, if you think about the guidance that we provided last night, as we -- again, as we start to march up that EBITDA expansion curve and also delever, then we would quickly be below that first lien test. So there's no active plans to either seek an amendment there or anything like that, nor look to extend the maturity. We don't need to do that now.

是的，不。所以對這一切的簡短回答是否定的。左輪手槍在 2026 年成熟。我們並不積極尋求延長它。當然，隨著我們越來越接近成熟，我們會的。但那是在 12 到 18 個月的時間範圍內，而不是在下一個 3 個月的時間範圍內。然後，因為它與第一留置權槓桿有關，所以只是為了確保你提到的問題很清楚，梅雷迪思，這只適用。該測試僅適用於我們在本季度末收支平衡的情況。我們沒有那樣。我們不打算這樣做。我們僅略高於首次留置權測試，即 3.25 倍的首次留置權槓桿。然而，如果你考慮一下我們昨晚提供的指導，因為我們——再次，當我們開始沿著 EBITDA 擴張曲線前進並去槓桿化時，那麼我們很快就會低於第一次留置權測試。因此，沒有積極的計劃在那裡尋求修正或類似的東西，也沒有尋求延長成熟度。我們現在不需要這樣做。

Great. Okay. Robert, I'm going to ask you a question. Given increased leverage, will you consider issuing equity or monetizing one or more divisions to reduce debt?

偉大的。好的。羅伯特，我要問你一個問題。如果槓桿增加，您會考慮發行股票或將一個或多個部門貨幣化以減少債務嗎？

Well, first of all, I want to repeat what we said in our (inaudible) say our plan is to reduce leverage -- net leverage through adjusted EBITDA expansion and returning to (inaudible) high adjusted EBITDA levels and the cash flow that comes with it, so kind of full stop. Now in the past (inaudible) businesses, so divestiture is certainly something we understand and we consider if the right conditions are there, and if we believe we're better off (technical difficulty) looking for other things. But this is not something we would do. We have a lot of thought about the long-term capabilities of Cimpress. And certainly, in the near term, the environment right now is not really favorable to divestitures.

好吧，首先，我想重複我們在（聽不清）中所說的話，我們的計劃是降低杠桿率——通過調整後的 EBITDA 擴張和恢復到（聽不清）高調整後 EBITDA 水平和隨之而來的現金流來降低杠桿率它，這樣的句號。現在在過去的（聽不清）業務中，所以資產剝離肯定是我們理解的事情，我們會考慮是否存在合適的條件，以及我們是否認為我們更好（技術困難）尋找其他東西。但這不是我們會做的事情。我們對 Cimpress 的長期能力進行了很多思考。當然，在短期內，目前的環境並不真正有利於資產剝離。

Great. Thank you. So I'm going to hit one question. This is more of a strategic question before I move to the outlook section, but I thought worth asking. How has the development and the mass customization platform changed your acquisition strategy? For example, it seems your recent tuck-in acquisitions are able to quickly implement several MCP products. If it's easier and the technology gains are relatively larger for smaller firms, in the future, could you see Cimpress pursue several tuck-in acquisitions annually compared to one large acquisition every few years as was the case from 2016 to 2018?

偉大的。謝謝。所以我要提出一個問題。在我進入展望部分之前，這更像是一個戰略問題，但我認為值得一問。開發和大規模定制平台如何改變了您的採購策略？例如，您最近的收購似乎能夠快速實施多個 MCP 產品。如果這更容易，而且小型公司的技術收益相對較大，那麼在未來，您是否會看到 Cimpress 每年進行幾次合併收購，而不是像 2016 年至 2018 年那樣每隔幾年進行一次大型收購？

Well, it's a good question. Let me start off by saying we do not anticipate material M&A in the near term because of (technical difficulty) we've been (technical difficulty) EBITDA expansion, bringing net leverage down. But if you look at from a longer-term perspective, yes, we do think there are lot of advantages that could drive (technical difficulty). And they are certainly in tuck-in acquisitions, as well as larger acquisitions. (inaudible) it may not be so obvious, but we have made -- I don't know if, Sean, you can tell me over the last 5 years, 6, 8 (inaudible) that are -- or investments that are really relatively small, often well under (technical difficulty) that have gone very well. Is that rough number correct, before I go on?

嗯，這是個好問題。首先讓我說，由於（技術困難）我們一直在（技術困難）EBITDA 擴張，我們預計短期內不會出現重大併購，從而降低淨槓桿率。但如果你從更長遠的角度來看，是的，我們確實認為有很多優勢可以推動（技術難度）。他們肯定在進行收購，以及更大規模的收購。 （聽不清）它可能不是那麼明顯，但我們已經 - 我不知道，肖恩，你可以告訴我在過去 5 年中，6 年、8 年（聽不清） - 或者投資確實是相對較小，通常遠低於（技術難度），但進展順利。在我繼續之前，這個粗略的數字是否正確？

Yes, that's right...

恩，那就對了...

Yes. Okay. Great. Going back to MCP. At this time, our focus is very much on internal (inaudible) leveraging in the businesses we have. (inaudible) in January, Pixartprinting, which is the largest part of Print Group and Print Group is doing very well, including Pixartprinting is doing very well. Pixartprinting migrated to Italy. And Italy is their largest revenue country and the last country (technical difficulty) that migrated to MCPs e-commerce tools, they have migrated France and Spain and the U.K. and others previously. And that migration (inaudible) well. So we're really leveraging MCP on the assets we have today.

是的。好的。偉大的。回到 MCP。目前，我們的重點非常放在我們擁有的業務中的內部（聽不清）槓桿上。 （聽不清）一月份，Pixartprinting 是 Print Group 和 Print Group 的最大部分，表現非常好，包括 Pixartprinting 做得很好。 Pixartprinting 遷移到意大利。而意大利是他們最大的收入國家，也是最後一個遷移到 MCP 電子商務工具的國家（技術難度），他們之前已經遷移了法國和西班牙以及英國和其他國家。而且遷移（聽不清）很好。所以我們真的在利用 MCP 來處理我們今天擁有的資產。

As to future M&A, (inaudible) right now. The size really depends (inaudible) vertical integration into a supplier, and they're relatively easy -- nothing is easy, but relatively easy to extract value from those and (inaudible) for those long term.

至於未來的併購，（聽不清）現在。規模真的取決於（聽不清）與供應商的垂直整合，而且它們相對容易——沒有什麼是容易的，但相對容易從這些供應商和（聽不清）長期中提取價值。

Great. Okay. Sean, quick one for you. How much cash do you need to run the business?

偉大的。好的。肖恩，快給你一個。經營企業需要多少現金？

We haven't provided a specific number of minimum cash, so I'll say, we have -- at the end of December, it's [$213] millions of liquidity. That is sufficient including any sort of working capital outflows that we normally -- seasonally have in Q3. So that remains sufficient. That revolver is there, too, if we needed during the quarter in terms of just movement of cash around the business and kind of timing there, but that liquidity is sufficient and then we expect that to build over time given the guidance that we released. So no specific number there, but liquidity that we have is sufficient, again, including any outflows from working capital in Q3.

我們沒有提供具體數量的最低現金，所以我會說，到 12 月底，我們有 [213 美元] 數百萬的流動資金。這足以包括我們通常在第三季度季節性出現的任何形式的營運資金流出。所以這仍然足夠。該左輪手槍也在那裡，如果我們在本季度需要圍繞業務的現金流動和那裡的時間安排，但流動性充足，然後我們預計根據我們發布的指導，它會隨著時間的推移而增加。因此，沒有具體數字，但我們擁有足夠的流動性，包括第三季度營運資金的任何流出。

Great. Okay. So let's get into the outlook. So first on revenue, you called out that overall trends have improved in January. Anything more to call out there? Can you give us a sense of how much constant currency revenue growth has accelerated relative to the first half of the year?

偉大的。好的。因此，讓我們進入前景。因此，首先在收入方面，您指出 1 月份的總體趨勢有所改善。還有什麼要說的嗎？您能否介紹一下與上半年相比，貨幣收入的持續增長速度加快了多少？

Yes. So we didn't give a specific number, but we said it was higher than 9%. We were at 5% consolidated organic constant currency in Q2, so that's the acceleration and it's above 9%. I think the thing that I would call out is really Vista in those numbers. There was improvement elsewhere too, relative to Q2, but Vista was really the one to call out. And I do think that as we track through the March quarter, there's a few things at play there. One is last January and February, there was quite a bit of COVID impact on demand, especially in Europe. So that will have some impact just in terms of the comps. And then as I mentioned before, too, we had the site launch of our U.S. market in, roughly, the third week of February last year.

是的。所以我們沒有給出具體數字，但我們說高於9%。我們在第二季度的綜合有機固定貨幣為 5%，所以這是加速並且超過 9%。我想我要說的是這些數字中的 Vista。相對於第二季度，其他地方也有所改善，但 Vista 確實是最值得關注的。而且我確實認為，當我們追踪整個三月季度時，那裡有一些事情在起作用。一個是去年 1 月和 2 月，COVID 對需求產生了相當大的影響，尤其是在歐洲。因此，這將對補償產生一些影響。然後正如我之前提到的，大約在去年 2 月的第三週，我們在美國市場推出了網站。

And as we talked about throughout last year, when we did those migrations, they would have an initial impact on revenue and then we would grow from there. So we'll be lapping all that, which will help to support higher growth rates as well. And then the last thing is just, again, from a mix perspective, that Vista acceleration in growth in January is helped by the fact that the mix shifts back to small business products, and they've been growing more strongly.

正如我們去年全年所談論的那樣，當我們進行這些遷移時，它們會對收入產生初步影響，然後我們將從那裡發展。因此，我們將覆蓋所有這些，這也將有助於支持更高的增長率。然後，最後一件事再次從混合的角度來看，Vista 在 1 月份的增長加速得益於混合轉向小型企業產品這一事實，而且它們的增長更加強勁。

Great. So you all, but answered this next question with that one, but I just want to be very clear for everybody. Does the previously provided guidance for Vista revenue growth to accelerate in FY '23 versus FY '22's FX neutral rate of 5% still stands?

偉大的。所以你們所有人，但是用那個問題回答了下一個問題，但我只想對每個人都非常清楚。之前提供的 Vista 收入增長在 23 財年加速相對於 22 財年 5% 的外匯中性利率的指導是否仍然有效？

It does.

確實如此。

Great, okay. Now we've had many, many, many presubmitted questions about the guidance that we gave yesterday from an EBITDA perspective. Everybody wants details. How do we get there? What is that going to look like in FY '23? What is that going to look like in FY '24? Where are the costs going to come out? Are they going to come out of advertising? Are they going to come out of operational expenses? Where are these things coming from and what is the math to get there. Robert, do you want to take this one?

太好了，好吧。現在我們有很多很多關於我們昨天從 EBITDA 角度給出的指導的預先提交的問題。每個人都想要細節。我們怎麼去那裡？ 23 財年會是什麼樣子？ 24 財年會是什麼樣子？成本會從哪裡出來？他們會從廣告中走出來嗎？他們會從運營費用中扣除嗎？這些東西從哪裡來，到達那裡的數學是什麼。羅伯特，你要這個嗎？

Sure, I'll jump in and Sean feel free to jump in, obviously, if you have (inaudible) we have in March an Investor Day which we have said we want to give you a lot more detail. And that's (inaudible) asking, we can talk to. Although certainly, we have begun our scenario developments and planning for (inaudible). We have not completed that work, and so it would be premature to give you a lot of detailed answers. (inaudible) certainly believe there's an opportunity here, and we're going to work through those different scenarios. (inaudible) depend on how much revenue growth we're seeing. We do expect, as Sean just said, to have revenue growth (inaudible) that EBITDA above $400 million in fiscal '24 will require substantial cost reductions in addition to that revenue growth.

當然，我會加入，Sean 隨時加入，顯然，如果你有（聽不清）我們在 3 月份有一個投資者日，我們已經說過我們想給你更多的細節。那就是（聽不清）問，我們可以談談。當然，我們已經開始了我們的場景開發和計劃（聽不清）。我們還沒有完成這項工作，所以現在給你很多詳細的答案還為時過早。 （聽不清）當然相信這裡有機會，我們將解決這些不同的情況。 （聽不清）取決於我們看到多少收入增長。正如肖恩剛才所說，我們確實希望收入增長（聽不清），即 EBITDA 在 24 財年超過 4 億美元，除了收入增長之外，還需要大幅削減成本。

So I think the framework to thinking about this is (technical difficulty) are not simply cutting costs of getting -- the goal of getting to $400 million alone. We believe that we can (inaudible) do more with less. We can drive efficiency, performance, simplification. And that tightening down if it's done right, can really lead to some significant acceleration beyond that. No one likes to know (technical difficulty) any business. Certainly, we don't like to do this at Cimpress, and actually a Vista we have done this in the past for those long-term shareholders who benefit (inaudible) when these are done the best. We had very much achieved the dual objectives of saving costs (inaudible) in the velocity of the business. So again, we certainly look forward to giving you more details in our midyear strategy update (technical difficulty) on March 21st.

所以我認為考慮這個問題的框架是（技術難度）不僅僅是削減獲得成本 - 僅達到 4 億美元的目標。我們相信我們可以（聽不清）事半功倍。我們可以提高效率、性能和簡化程度。如果做得對，收緊政策真的可以帶來一些顯著的加速。沒有人喜歡了解（技術難度）任何業務。當然，我們不喜歡在 Cimpress 這樣做，實際上我們過去曾為那些在這些做得最好時受益（聽不清）的長期股東這樣做。我們已經很好地實現了在業務速度方面節省成本（聽不清）的雙重目標。因此，我們再次期待在 3 月 21 日的年中戰略更新（技術難度）中為您提供更多詳細信息。

Thank you, Robert. Sean, do you want to add?

謝謝你，羅伯特。肖恩，你想補充嗎？

Yes, maybe just to add 2 things. I think the matter of point here is there's a lot more that we'll share in March. But yes. I think some of the thread of questions and if I were an investor too, why and why now? And Robert alluded to this to some extent. But I think our view is like our profitability has been impacted by external factors over the last year or 2 years. And we just feel, because of our commitment to expanding EBITDA in the ways that we talked about and also delevering that we need to do this through things that we can control, really drive us through things that we control, and yes, we also expect revenue growth as well to contribute to that, but we really need to drive this through things we control. And as Robert said, we think that there's opportunities to do that and do that in ways that are supportive of. Of course, not just getting the $400 million, but growth beyond that.

是的，也許只是為了添加兩件事。我認為這裡的重點是我們將在 3 月份分享更多內容。但是，是的。我想到了一些問題，如果我也是投資者，為什麼以及為什麼是現在？羅伯特在某種程度上暗示了這一點。但我認為我們的觀點是，我們的盈利能力在過去一年或兩年受到了外部因素的影響。我們只是覺得，由於我們致力於以我們所談論的方式擴大 EBITDA 並去槓桿化，我們需要通過我們可以控制的事情來做到這一點，真正推動我們通過我們控制的事情，是的，我們也期待收入增長也為此做出了貢獻，但我們確實需要通過我們控制的事情來推動這一點。正如羅伯特所說，我們認為有機會做到這一點，並以支持的方式做到這一點。當然，不僅僅是獲得 4 億美元，還有超越這部分的增長。

There was -- and one of the questions that was referenced to like how should one think about this, should we look back to what we did back in the pandemic as the guide to the actions that we might take. And I would say there, of course, what we had -- what we went through during the pandemic is informative. But I think this playbook is quite different in its context. There we were trying to very quickly reduce cost wherever we could with the primary motive being make sure we protect liquidity. This is a very different context. We've been investing a lot, we've made significant improvements, including in our largest business at Vista and also with the replatforming, which has a really, really significant impact on that business and how we can operate.

有一個被提及的問題，比如人們應該如何思考這個問題，我們是否應該回顧我們在大流行病中所做的事情，作為我們可能採取的行動的指南。當然，我會在那裡說，我們所擁有的——我們在大流行期間所經歷的一切都是有益的。但我認為這本劇本在其上下文中是完全不同的。在那裡，我們試圖盡可能迅速地降低成本，主要動機是確保我們保護流動性。這是一個非常不同的背景。我們進行了大量投資，取得了重大改進，包括我們在 Vista 的最大業務以及重新平台化，這對該業務以及我們的運營方式產生了非常非常重大的影響。

And so now we need to take a step back, look at both the investments that we've made, some of those that are longer duration and make some assessment about, should we bring some of those in, make some choices there, but also how can we operate in different ways and how can we -- and where can we operate more efficiently. And so from that perspective, I think it's a different playbook than what we went through in 2020. But of course, that's always informative in terms of what's possible.

所以現在我們需要退後一步，看看我們所做的投資，其中一些持續時間較長的投資，並做出一些評估，我們是否應該引入其中一些，在那裡做出一些選擇，但也我們如何以不同的方式運作以及我們如何——以及我們可以在哪些方面更有效地運作。因此，從這個角度來看，我認為這是一本與我們在 2020 年經歷的不同的劇本。但是，當然，就可能性而言，這總是提供信息。

Yes, Sean, I 1000% agree with that. Just for (technical difficulty) back to almost 2018 or so, we -- and certainly, the financial crisis, the global financial crisis in 2007, '08, we've done similar things.

是的，肖恩，我 1000% 同意這一點。就（技術困難）而言，可以追溯到大約 2018 年左右，我們——當然還有金融危機，2007 年的全球金融危機，08 年，我們做過類似的事情。

Okay. A quick one, Sean. Does getting down to 3.5x net leverage involved actively paying down debt or mostly driven by EBITDA expansion and cash generation?

好的。快一點，肖恩。將淨槓桿率降至 3.5 倍是否涉及積極償還債務或主要由 EBITDA 擴張和現金產生驅動？

It involves -- well, first of all, we -- I mean, this is all on a net leverage basis. So in terms of paying down debt, that doesn't necessarily factor into the math because cash generation, including -- just increase in liquidity on the balance sheet, funded liquidity does have an impact on net leverage as well. So there's not an assumption of will we pay down debt or not. That's stuff that -- we will consider going back to a prior question of would you repurchase your bonds, for example. So therefore, most of this is driven through EBITDA expansion and then the resulting cash generation.

它涉及——嗯，首先，我們——我的意思是，這都是基於淨槓桿的。因此，就償還債務而言，這不一定會影響數學，因為現金產生，包括資產負債表上流動性的增加，融資流動性也會對淨槓桿產生影響。所以沒有關於我們是否會償還債務的假設。這就是 - 我們將考慮回到之前的問題，例如，你會回購你的債券。因此，其中大部分是通過 EBITDA 擴張以及由此產生的現金產生的。

Great. Okay. So I've had a couple of follow-up questions, and we had a presubmitted question really around, what should people take from the fact that we have decided to pull back on costs? So this one particular person, I read the comments on cost cuts driving profit improvement as a view that revenue growth is likely to be less than previously modeled. And as such, cost controls will be needed to meet the $400 million bogey. Can you confirm on that front, just to be very clear.

偉大的。好的。所以我有幾個後續問題，我們確實有一個預先提交的問題，人們應該從我們決定削減成本的事實中得到什麼？因此，對於這個特定的人，我閱讀了關於削減成本推動利潤改善的評論，認為收入增長可能低於之前的模型。因此，需要控製成本才能達到 4 億美元的目標。你能否在這方面確認，只是為了非常清楚。

Well, I think in terms of this year, and there was a prior question about being above 5% constant currency growth in Vista this quarter, which is our prior guidance, and I said that was still the case. So I don't think from a near-term perspective, that there's necessarily that type of a correlation between cost reductions and growth. Over time, that might be the case, including, as I mentioned before, looking at where we have sort of longer-term investments that have longer-term paybacks and where we might look to make some different choices. So those things can impact growth in the years ahead, but I wouldn't see them as directly connected.

好吧，我認為就今年而言，之前有一個關於本季度 Vista 的貨幣增長率超過 5% 的問題，這是我們之前的指導，我說情況仍然如此。所以我不認為從近期的角度來看，成本降低和增長之間必然存在這種相關性。隨著時間的推移，情況可能會如此，包括，正如我之前提到的，看看我們在哪些方面有長期回報的長期投資，以及在哪些方面我們可能會做出一些不同的選擇。所以這些事情會影響未來幾年的增長，但我認為它們沒有直接聯繫。

And also, I think in terms of the why, I go back to what I said in reference to one of the recent questions. Like I think the why here really is that we were committed to EBITDA expansion. We're committed to delevering, and we can't just rely on revenue growth, which is subject to factors that some of which are outside of our control. And so we really feel like we need to do this even more so, kind of boosted through things that are in our control, and that's really the main thrust of the why.

而且，我認為就原因而言，我回到我在提到最近的一個問題時所說的話。就像我認為的真正原因是我們致力於擴大 EBITDA。我們致力於去槓桿化，我們不能僅僅依賴收入增長，收入增長受制於我們無法控制的因素。所以我們真的覺得我們需要做更多的事情，通過我們控制的事情來推動，這真的是為什麼的主要推動力。

Thanks, Sean. Okay. I'm going to try to sneak in 2 more questions before we end this call. So first one for Robert, given the mix shift in Vista, will Vista margins go back to where they were or will margins be lower than previous years, even after recouping higher input costs, currency headwinds, et cetera, due to the mix shift?

謝謝，肖恩。好的。在結束本次通話之前，我將嘗試再提出 2 個問題。所以羅伯特的第一個問題是，考慮到 Vista 的混合轉變，Vista 的利潤率會回到原來的水平還是會低於前幾年，即使在收回更高的投入成本、貨幣逆風等之後，由於混合轉變？

Yes. I think (inaudible) talking about and the margins we're talking about, but if I think of segment EBITDA, we certainly believe that Vista can achieve those in (inaudible) over time. Gross margins have shifted, and we think that those are more permanent. But they often come with a lot lower gross margins often come with higher lifetime value of customers. So we think it's a factor that we can manage.

是的。我認為（聽不清）談論我們正在談論的利潤率，但如果我想到細分 EBITDA，我們當然相信 Vista 可以隨著時間的推移實現（聽不清）的目標。毛利率已經發生變化，我們認為這些變化更為持久。但它們通常伴隨著低得多的毛利率和更高的客戶終身價值。所以我們認為這是一個我們可以管理的因素。

Great. Okay. And then, Sean, I'm going to go back to the liquidity topic here from an outlook perspective and from a very near-term perspective. So short-term liquidity looks tight without access to the revolver, especially in that -- there are likely to be restructuring costs around the announced cost controls. Coupled with the seasonally weak working capital period, and this person says I think 3Q normally sees something like $60 million in working capital burn in addition to normal expenses. It feels like liquidity could get very tight next quarter. Can you comment on how the company thinks about that, how we think about it?

偉大的。好的。然後，肖恩，我將從前景和非常近期的角度回到這裡的流動性話題。因此，在無法使用左輪手槍的情況下，短期流動性看起來很緊張，尤其是在宣布的成本控制周圍可能會有重組成本。加上季節性疲軟的營運資金期，這個人說我認為除了正常支出外，第三季度通常會看到大約 6000 萬美元的營運資金消耗。感覺下個季度流動性可能會變得非常緊張。您能否評論一下公司對此的看法，我們如何看待它？

Yes, yes, sure. So the -- just kind of going back to that picture of what FY '23 was planned to look like in terms of first half of the year, margin compression, second half of the year as we exit EBITDA expansion. If you think about that in reply to our liquidity, also to our leverage, like it was always our expectation that we have increasing leverage in the first and second quarter. And then we would start to march down that curve. We had prior commentary that we expected to delever from last year's levels that was before the noncontrolling interest payment. So relative to Q3, as I said before, we have sufficient liquidity, [$213] million at the end of December. We do seasonally have working capital outflows in Q3. We've planned for that. And the plan had been and continues to be that Q3 would be the low point, and then we'd be marching up from there.

是的，是的，當然。所以 - 只是回到我們退出 EBITDA 擴張時，在今年上半年，利潤率壓縮，下半年計劃的 23 財年的情況。如果你考慮一下我們的流動性以及我們的槓桿率，就像我們一直期望我們在第一季度和第二季度增加槓桿率一樣。然後我們將開始沿著這條曲線前進。我們之前有評論稱，我們預計將從去年非控制性利息支付前的水平去槓桿化。因此，相對於第三季度，正如我之前所說，我們在 12 月底有足夠的流動性，[213] 億美元。我們在第三季度確實有季節性流動資金流出。我們已經計劃好了。並且計劃一直並將繼續是第三季度將是低點，然後我們將從那裡前進。

As it relates to the impact of restructuring costs, typically, those are paid over time. And so the way to think about that is as we experience EBITDA savings, the cash flow savings attached to that will be on a delay because we'll still be paying out those restructuring costs for a number of months while we are starting to experience the EBITDA benefit. So that's how we think about that. So that doesn't -- for the most part, it doesn't lead to something like onetime large cash outflow, but rather the sustained kind of cash outflows that we already have in our run rate for longer, then we will have those things in our EBITDA. So hopefully, that sets the picture for everyone.

由於它涉及重組成本的影響，通常這些成本會隨著時間的推移而支付。因此，考慮這一點的方式是，當我們經歷 EBITDA 節省時，與之相關的現金流量節省將會延遲，因為在我們開始經歷EBITDA 收益。這就是我們的想法。所以這不會 - 在大多數情況下，它不會導致像一次性大量現金流出這樣的事情，而是我們已經在我們的運行率中擁有更長時間的持續現金流出，然後我們將擁有這些東西在我們的 EBITDA 中。所以希望這為每個人設定了畫面。

Thanks, Sean. All right. We are almost at time. Robert, any parting remarks?

謝謝，肖恩。好的。我們差不多到了。羅伯特，有什麼離別的話嗎？

Well, first of all, thank you, everyone, for the time you've all invested (technical difficulty) publish quarterly results, the questions that you've all asked and the time you've put into this call.

好吧，首先，謝謝大家，感謝你們投入的時間（技術難度）發布季度業績、你們都提出的問題以及你們投入這個電話會議的時間。

As we said, we're optimistic about the future of Cimpress, of Vista specifically within Cimpress, and about the opportunity for us to demonstrate (technical difficulty) really to come out of this sustained period of investment and return to our traditional (inaudible) of adjusted EBITDA and beyond. So we look forward to you all joining us on March 21st (inaudible), and until then, have a great day and a great 1.5 months.

正如我們所說，我們對 Cimpress 的未來，尤其是 Cimpress 中的 Vista，以及我們展示（技術困難）真正擺脫這一持續投資期並回歸我們傳統（聽不清）的機會持樂觀態度調整後的 EBITDA 及以上。因此，我們期待大家在 3 月 21 日（聽不清）加入我們，在此之前，祝您度過美好的一天和美好的 1.5 個月。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。