康明斯 (CMI) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Q3 2025 Cummins, Inc., earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

各位好，歡迎參加康明斯公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）提醒各位，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Nick Arens, Executive Director of Investor Relations. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

現在，我榮幸地向大家介紹主持人，投資人關係執行董事尼克‧阿倫斯。謝謝您，先生。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Maria. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our teleconference today to discuss Cummins' results for the third quarter of 2025. Participating with me today are Jennifer Rumsey, our Chair and Chief Executive Officer; and Mark Smith, our Chief Financial Officer. We will all be available to answer questions at the end of the teleconference.

謝謝你，瑪麗亞。各位早安，歡迎參加我們今天舉行的電話會議，討論康明斯2025年第三季的業績。今天與我一同出席的有我們的董事長兼執行長珍妮佛拉姆齊，以及我們的財務長馬克史密斯。電話會議結束後，我們所有人都會在線上回答問題。

Before we start, please note that some of the information that you will hear or be given today will consist of forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Such statements express our forecasts, expectations, hopes, beliefs, and intentions on strategies regarding the future. Our actual future results could differ materially from those projected in such forward-looking statements because of a number of risks and uncertainties. More information regarding such risks and uncertainties is available in the forward-looking disclosure statement in the slide deck, in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, particularly the Risk Factors and section of the most recently filed annual report on Form 10-K, and any subsequently filed quarterly reports on Form 10-Q.

在開始之前，請注意，您今天將聽到或獲得的一些資訊將包含 1934 年證券交易法意義上的前瞻性陳述。這些聲明表達了我們對未來策略的預測、期望、希望、信念和意圖。由於存在許多風險和不確定因素，我們未來的實際業績可能與此類前瞻性聲明中預測的績效有重大差異。有關此類風險和不確定性的更多信息，請參閱幻燈片中的前瞻性披露聲明、我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件（特別是最近提交的 10-K 表格年度報告中的“風險因素”部分）以及隨後提交的任何 10-Q 表格季度報告。

During the course of this call, we will be discussing certain non-GAAP financial measures, and we will refer you to our website for the reconciliation of those measures to GAAP financial measures. Our press release with a copy of the financial statements and a copy of today's webcast presentation are available on our website within the Investor Relations section at cummins.com.

在本次電話會議中，我們將討論一些非GAAP財務指標，並請您造訪我們的網站查看這些指標與GAAP財務指標的調節表。我們的新聞稿、財務報表副本以及今天網路直播簡報的副本均可在 cummins.com 網站的投資者關係版塊中找到。

With that out of the way, I will turn you over to our Chair and CEO, Jennifer Rumsey, to kick us off.

接下來，我將把發言權交給我們的董事長兼執行長詹妮弗·拉姆齊，由她來為我們拉開序幕。

Thank you, Nick. Good morning, everyone. I'll start with a summary of our third quarter accomplishments and financial results. Then I will discuss our sales and end market trends by region. Finally, I'll provide an update on how we are navigating the evolving trade and policy landscapes along with our market outlook for the remainder of the year.

謝謝你，尼克。各位早安。首先，我將總結我們第三季的成就和財務表現。接下來，我將按地區討論我們的銷售和終端市場趨勢。最後，我將介紹我們如何應對不斷變化的貿易和政策環境，以及我們對今年剩餘時間的市場展望。

Mark will then take you through more details of our third quarter financial performance. Before getting into the details of our results, I want to take a moment to highlight a few major accomplishments from the third quarter. In September, we announced a collaboration with Komatsu to develop hybrid powertrains for surface haulage heavy mining equipment. This joint development effort will leverage the breadth and scale of Komatsu's and Cummins' global capabilities to enable the acceleration of optimized hybrid solutions for mining. Retrofit hybrid solutions hold the potential to help mining customers accelerate their decarbonization journey today while lowering the cost of operations of their installed fleet assets.

接下來，Mark 將帶您詳細了解我們第三季的財務表現。在詳細介紹我們的業績之前，我想花一點時間重點介紹第三季取得的一些主要成就。9 月，我們宣布與小松公司合作，為地面運輸重型採礦設備開發混合動力系統。此次聯合開發將充分利用小松和康明斯在全球的廣泛實力和規模，加速開發用於採礦的最佳化混合動力解決方案。改造混合動力解決方案有可能幫助礦業客戶加快目前的脫碳進程，同時降低其已安裝車隊資產的營運成本。

We are excited about this opportunity to bridge current operational needs with future low-carbon goals to support our customers' sustainability efforts. Additionally, our latest 15-liter engine delivered standout results during this quarter's Run on Less – Messy Middle event hosted by the North America Council for Freight Efficiency. Three of the 13 participating fleets ran the new X15N natural gas engine through some of the most demanding duty cycles of the demonstration, showcasing its ability to deliver true heavy-duty performance while unlocking the cost and emissions benefits of natural gas.

我們很高興有機會將當前的營運需求與未來的低碳目標連結起來，以支持客戶的永續發展努力。此外，我們最新的 15 升引擎在本季度由北美貨運效率委員會主辦的「減少運輸」和「混亂中間環節」活動中取得了突出成績。參與此演示的 13 支車隊中有 3 支車隊對新型 X15N 天然氣引擎進行了演示中最苛刻的運行循環測試，展示了其在發揮天然氣成本和排放優勢的同時，提供真正重型性能的能力。

At the same event, our X15 diesel led in fuel economy and operational efficiency, reinforcing its position as a benchmark for dependable high-performance power. These results highlight the growing adoption of Cummins' technologies, and the tangible value customers are experiencing from our advanced powertrain solutions, all produced here in the US.

在同一賽事中，我們的 X15 柴油引擎在燃油經濟性和運行效率方面領先，鞏固了其作為可靠高性能動力標竿的地位。這些結果凸顯了康明斯技術的日益普及，以及客戶從我們先進的動力總成解決方案中獲得的實際價值，所有這些解決方案都是在美國生產的。

Now I will comment on the overall company performance for the third quarter of 2025 and cover some of our key markets. Sales for the third quarter were $8.3 billion, a decrease of 2% compared to the third quarter of 2024. Lower sales were primarily driven by weaker North America heavy and medium-duty truck demand, with unit volumes declining 40% from a year ago, which was largely offset by continued strength in our global power generation markets, higher light-duty truck volumes, and favorable pricing. EBITDA was $1.2 billion or 14.3% compared to $1.4 billion or 16.4% a year ago.

現在我將對公司 2025 年第三季的整體業績進行評論，並介紹我們的一些主要市場。第三季銷售額為 83 億美元，比 2024 年第三季下降 2%。銷量下降主要是由於北美重型和中型卡車需求疲軟，銷量比去年同期下降了 40%，但這在很大程度上被我們全球發電市場的持續強勁、輕型卡車銷量增加以及有利的價格所抵消。息稅折舊攤銷前利潤 (EBITDA) 為 12 億美元，較去年同期成長 14.3%，而去年同期為 14 億美元，較去年同期成長 16.4%。

Third quarter 2025 results included $240 million of non-cash charges related to our electrolyzer business within the Accelera segment, reflecting lower demand expectations due to reduced US government incentives and slower market development internationally. Excluding those charges, EBITDA was $1.4 billion or 17.2% of sales, an increase of 80 basis points from a year ago as the benefits of higher power generation and light-duty truck volume, pricing, operational efficiencies, and lower compensation expenses more than offset declines in North American truck volumes and the unfavorable impact from tariffs.

2025 年第三季業績包括與 Accelera 部門電解槽業務相關的 2.4 億美元非現金支出，這反映出由於美國政府激勵措施減少和國際市場發展放緩，導致需求預期降低。在剔除這些費用後，EBITDA 為 14 億美元，佔銷售額的 17.2%，比上年同期增長 80 個基點，原因是發電量和輕型卡車銷量增加、定價、運營效率提高以及薪酬支出降低等利好因素，抵消了北美卡車銷量下降和關稅帶來的不利影響。

We did increase the proportion of tariff costs recovered through pricing and other mitigation actions in the third quarter compared to the second quarter. However, the magnitude of total tariff costs increased from Q2 as expected, and the net impact to Cummins was negative year over year.

與第二季相比，第三季我們透過定價和其他緩解措施收回的關稅成本比例增加。然而，正如預期的那樣，關稅總成本的規模從第二季開始增加，對康明斯的淨影響較去年同期為負。

Our third quarter revenues in North America decreased 4% compared to 2024. Industry production of heavy-duty trucks in the third quarter was 46,000 units, down 34% from 2024 levels, while our heavy-duty unit sales were 16,000, down 38% from a year ago. Industry production of medium-duty trucks was 20,000 units in the third quarter of 2025, a decrease of 51%, while our unit sales were 17,000, down 55% from 2024.

與 2024 年相比，我們第三季在北美的營收下降了 4%。第三季重型卡車產業產量為 46,000 輛，比 2024 年的水準下降了 34%；而我們的重型卡車銷量為 16,000 輛，比去年同期下降了 38%。2025 年第三季度，中型卡車產業產量為 20,000 輛，下降 51%；而我們的銷量為 17,000 輛，比 2024 年下降 55%。

We shipped 40,000 engines to Stellantis for use in the Ram pickups in the third quarter of 2025, up 44% from 2024 levels driven by a ramp-up of model year '25 product which was launched earlier this year. Revenues for North America power generation equipment increased 27%, driven by continued strength in data center demand.

2025 年第三季度，我們向 Stellantis 交付了 40,000 台發動機，用於 Ram 皮卡，比 2024 年的水平增長了 44%，這主要得益於今年早些時候推出的 2025 款車型的量產。受資料中心需求持續強勁的推動，北美發電設備收入成長了 27%。

Our international revenues increased by 2% in the third quarter of 2025 compared to a year ago. Third quarter revenues in China, including joint ventures, were $1.7 billion, up 16% from a very weak quarter last year as stronger unit demand was partially offset by unfavorable product mix and weaker part sales. Industry demand for medium- and heavy-duty trucks in China was 311,000 units, an increase of 50% from last year. Our sales in units, including joint ventures, were 41,000, an increase of 35%. The increase in the China market size was primarily due to higher-than-expected domestic demand driven by NS4 scrapping incentives. Industry demand for excavators in China in the third quarter was 54,000 units, an increase of 22% from 2024 levels.

2025年第三季度，我們的國際營收比去年同期成長了2%。第三季中國市場（包括合資企業）營收為17億美元，較去年同期成長16%，原因是強勁的單位需求被不利的產品組合和疲軟的零件銷售部分抵銷。中國對中型和重型卡車的行業需求為31.1萬輛，比去年增長了50%。我們的銷售量（包括合資企業）為 41,000 台，成長了 35%。中國市場規模的成長主要是由於NS4報廢激勵措施推動了高於預期的國內需求。中國第三季挖土機產業需求量為5.4萬台，較2024年水準成長22%。

Our units sold, including joint ventures, were 9,000, an increase of 18%. The increase in the China market size is primarily driven by domestic rural development and small infrastructure projects as well as strong export demand. Sales of power generation equipment in China increased 26% in the third quarter due to accelerating data center demand.

我們售出的產品（包括合資產品）為 9,000 套，成長了 18%。中國市場規模的成長主要受國內農村發展和小規模基礎設施項目以及強勁的出口需求的推動。由於資料中心需求加速成長，中國發電設備銷售額在第三季成長了26%。

Third-quarter revenues in India, including joint venture, were $713 million, an increase of 3% from a year ago as stronger demand across markets was partially offset by depreciation of the rupee against the dollar. Industry truck production increased 6% from 2024, while our shipments increased 8%, driven primarily by domestic demand recovery as well as a pre-buy in advance of the potential goods and service tax rate changes. Power Generation revenues increased 41% in the third quarter, driven by strong data center demand.

第三季度，印度（包括合資企業）的收入為 7.13 億美元，比去年同期增長 3%，原因是各市場需求的增強被盧比對美元貶值部分抵消。2024 年，產業卡車產量增加了 6%，而我們的出貨量成長了 8%，這主要得益於國內需求的復甦以及為應對潛在的商品和服務稅率變化而進行的提前購買。受資料中心強勁需求的推動，發電業務第三季營收成長了 41%。

To summarize, we achieved strong results led by record performance in our Power Systems and Distribution segments which were offset by sharp declines in the North America heavy- and medium-duty truck demand which negatively impacted our Engine and Components businesses. We expect the near-term weakness in North America on-highway truck markets to persist at least through the end of this year.

總而言之，我們取得了強勁的業績，這主要得益於電力系統和配電部門的創紀錄表現，但北美重型和中型卡車需求的急劇下降抵消了這些業績，對我們的發動機和零部件業務產生了負面影響。我們預計北美公路卡車市場的短期疲軟態勢至少會持續到今年年底。

Across all North America on-highway applications, we anticipate unit shipments declining approximately 15% from third-quarter levels with most of the reduction expected in light- and heavy-duty trucks. This reflects some normalization in light-duty trucks after strong Q3 ramp-up in the new model production along with fewer production days in the quarter and continued weakness in heavy-duty trucks.

我們預計北美所有公路應用領域的車輛出貨量將比第三季下降約 15%，其中輕型和重型卡車的出貨量降幅預計最大。這反映出輕型卡車在第三季新車型產量強勁增長後出現一定程度的正常化，同時本季生產天數減少，而重型卡車則持續疲軟。

While we believe Q4 on-highway engine production could mark the bottom of this cycle, the pace of recovery in these markets will depend on broader economic sentiment and the clarity of trade and regulatory policies. While near-term challenges remain in our shorter cycle markets, we continue to see strong demand for power generation equipment beyond this year. The global trade and policy landscapes remain dynamic, presenting ongoing challenges across our industry.

雖然我們認為第四季度公路引擎產量可能標誌著本輪週期的底部，但這些市場的復甦速度將取決於更廣泛的經濟狀況以及貿易和監​​管政策的清晰度。儘管短期市場仍面臨挑戰，但我們預計今年以後對發電設備的需求仍然強勁。全球貿易和政策環境依然瞬息萬變，為我們的整個產業帶來了持續的挑戰。

As anticipated, tariff costs increased in the third quarter. We are nearing full recovery for those tariffs announced prior to the third quarter and are currently assessing any incremental impacts from the more recent announcements, including the medium- and heavy-duty vehicle Section 232 proclamation.

正如預期的那樣，第三季關稅成本有所增加。我們正在逐步恢復第三季先前宣布的關稅，目前正在評估最近宣布的關稅措施（包括中型和重型車輛第 232 條款公告）帶來的任何額外影響。

We believe, overall, we are well positioned to support our customers and keep the US economy moving with our long-established strategy of making products in the US for the US market. Rising geopolitical tensions could also pose risk to semiconductor supply and other products that utilize rare earth minerals, potentially impacting our supply chain and broader industry production.

我們相信，總體而言，憑藉我們長期以來堅持的在美國生產產品、服務美國市場的策略，我們完全有能力支持我們的客戶，並推動美國經濟持續發展。地緣政治緊張局勢加劇也可能對半導體供應和其他使用稀土礦物的產品構成風險，這可能會影響我們的供應鏈和更廣泛的產業生產。

So far this year, we have not experienced significant disruptions to our production, and we are actively monitoring this evolving situation and taking steps to mitigate risk where we can. The reduction of government incentives in the US to support the adoption of green hydrogen, along with slower-than-expected market development in some international markets has contributed to significantly lower demand for our electrolyzer products.

今年到目前為止，我們的生產還沒有受到重大干擾，我們正在積極關注這一不斷變化的情況，並採取措施盡可能降低風險。美國政府減少推廣綠氫能的誘因，以及一些國際市場的發展速度低於預期，導致對我們電解槽產品的需求大幅下降。

As a result, we are undergoing a strategic review of our electrolyzer business to assess the best path forward and there may be further charges as we respond to a very weak demand outlook. 2025 has presented significant challenges for our industry, as I've outlined, requiring us to focus even more on cost containment and risk mitigation than we had anticipated at the start of the year.

因此，我們正在對電解槽業務進行策略性評估，以尋找最佳發展路徑。鑑於市場需求前景非常疲軟，我們可能需要支付更多費用。正如我之前所述，2025年為我們的產業帶來了巨大的挑戰，這要求我們比年初預期的更加重視成本控制和風險規避。

Our experienced leadership team and dedicated employees have worked tirelessly to navigate these dynamics and also capitalize on the growing demand for power generation equipment and significantly improve company performance cycle over cycle. Looking ahead, we are hopeful that global trade policy will stabilize and that the administration's review of the 2027 EPA regulations will conclude in the coming months. This clarity will be critical for our industry and will support our plan to reinstate guidance for 2026 in February.

我們經驗豐富的領導團隊和敬業的員工不懈努力，應對這些變化，並利用對發電設備日益增長的需求，顯著提高公司業績，使其逐年穩步發展。展望未來，我們希望全球貿易政策能夠穩定下來，並且政府對 2027 年 EPA 法規的審查能夠在未來幾個月內完成。這種明確性對我們產業至關重要，並將支持我們於 2 月恢復 2026 年業績指引的計畫。

Now let me turn it over to Mark.

現在我把麥克風交給馬克。

Thank you, Jen, and good morning, everyone. We delivered strong results in what can be best described as a tale of two economies, certainly here in the US. Key takeaways today are: number one, business trends in the third quarter played out as we communicated at a high level three months ago. Demand for our Power Systems and Distribution businesses remains very strong, driven in part by rising demand for backup power for data centers.

謝謝你，珍，大家早安。我們取得了強勁的成績，而美國的經濟狀況可以用「兩種截然不同的經濟」來形容，至少在美國是如此。今天的主要結論是：第一，第三季的商業趨勢與我們三個月前在高層溝通的內容一致。受資料中心備用電源需求不斷增長的推動，市場對我們電力系統和配電業務的需求仍然非常強勁。

US truck production, on the other hand, slowed sharply, with our shipments in heavy- and medium-duty truck engines down 27% from the second quarter, right in the middle of our uninspiring projection of a decline of between 25% and 30%. Our margins were strong with sales growth in Power Systems and Distribution converted into EBITDA margin expansion and cost containment efforts across the company helped mitigate the impact of declining truck volumes in the US.

另一方面，美國卡車生產大幅放緩，重型和中型卡車引擎的出貨量比第二季度下降了 27%，正好在我們先前預測的 25% 到 30% 的降幅範圍內。我們的利潤率表現強勁，電力系統和配電業務的銷售成長轉化為 EBITDA 利潤率的提升，公司各部門的成本控制措施也有助於減輕美國卡車銷量下降的影響。

Thirdly, also as we projected, the negative impact of tariffs continued to grow in the third quarter. However, we managed the net hit to our profitability through price recovery and other actions, and the proportion of cost recovery in the third quarter increased sequentially. Fourth, our operating cash flow was strong at $1.3 billion in the quarter. Amongst those highlights, it's worth reinforcing that we're extending our track record of meaningfully improving our performance cycle over cycle.

第三，正如我們預測的那樣，關稅的負面影響在第三季繼續擴大。然而，我們透過價格回升和其他措施控制了獲利能力受到的淨衝擊，第三季的成本回收比例較上季增加。第四，本季我們的營運現金流強勁，達到 13 億美元。在這些亮點中，值得強調的是，我們正在不斷鞏固我們在各個週期中持續顯著提升績效的良好記錄。

Now let's take a little closer look at our results. Our revenues were $8.3 billion, down 2% from a year ago. Sales in North America decreased 4%, while international revenues increased 2%. EBITDA was $1.2 billion or 14.3% of sales for the quarter compared to $1.4 billion or 16.4% of sales a year ago.

現在讓我們更仔細地看一下我們的結果。我們的營收為 83 億美元，比去年同期下降了 2%。北美地區的銷售額下降了 4%，而國際收入成長了 2%。本季 EBITDA 為 12 億美元，佔銷售額的 14.3%，而去年同期為 14 億美元，佔銷售額的 16.4%。

Third quarter 2025 results included $240 million of non-cash charges related to our electrolyzer business within the Accelera segment. Excluding those charges, EBITDA was $1.4 billion or 17.2% of sales. The higher EBITDA percent, excluding the non-cash charges, was driven by higher power generation demand and light-duty truck volumes, pricing, strong operational efficiencies, and lower compensation expenses, all of which was partially offset by lower North American truck demand and the unfavorable impact of tariffs.

2025 年第三季業績包括與 Accelera 部門電解槽業務相關的 2.4 億美元非現金支出。不計入這些費用，EBITDA 為 14 億美元，佔銷售額的 17.2%。在扣除非現金支出後，更高的 EBITDA 百分比主要得益於更高的發電需求和輕型卡車銷售、定價、強勁的營運效率以及更低的薪資支出，但這些都被北美卡車需求的下降和關稅的不利影響部分抵消。

Now I will go into more -- a little bit more detail by line item. Gross margin for the quarter was $2.1 billion or 25.6% of sales compared to $2.2 billion or 25.7% of sales last year. 2025 margins included a $30 million non-cash charge for inventory write-downs for our electrolyzer business which were part of the previously mentioned non-cash charges for Accelera. Excluding those charges, gross margin percent was 26% improved from the prior year as a result of higher power generation demand and light-duty truck volumes, pricing, operational improvements, all offsetting negative truck and tariff impacts.

現在我將逐項詳細說明。本季毛利為21億美元，佔銷售額的25.6%，去年同期為22億美元，佔銷售額的25.7%。 2025年的毛利中包含3,000萬美元的非現金支出，該支出用於電解槽業務的存貨減損，也是先前提及的Accelera非現金支出的一部分。除去這些費用，由於發電需求增加、輕型卡車銷量成長、價格上漲、營運改進，所有這些因素都抵消了卡車和關稅帶來的負面影響，毛利率比前一年提高了 26%。

Selling, admin, and research expenses were $1.1 billion or 13.6% of sales compared to $1.2 billion or 13.8% of sales and reflected strong cost control across the company. Joint venture income of $104 million increased $5 million from the prior year. This increase was driven by higher China volumes within our Engine and Power Systems segments. That was the primary driver.

銷售、管理和研發費用為 11 億美元，佔銷售額的 13.6%，而去年同期為 12 億美元，佔銷售額的 13.8%，這反映出公司在成本控制方面取得了顯著成效。合資企業收入為 1.04 億美元，比上年增加 500 萬美元。這一成長主要得益於中國市場在我們引擎和動力系統業務板塊的銷售成長。這是主要原因。

Other income decreased to a negative $186 million compared to $22 million of income from the prior year which was primarily a result of the $200 million non-cash goodwill impairment to the electrolyzer segment. Interest expense was $83 million flat with the prior year. The all-in effective tax rate in the third quarter was 32.7%, which included $36 million or $0.26 per diluted share of increased tax expense related to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act as a result of reduced foreign income deduction and research and development credits.

其他收入減少至負 1.86 億美元，而前一年為 2,200 萬美元，主要是由於電解槽業務部門 2 億美元的非現金商譽減損所致。利息支出與上年持平，為 8,300 萬美元。第三季綜合有效稅率為 32.7%，其中包括《一項偉大的美麗法案》導致的外國收入扣除和研發稅收抵免減少而增加的 3,600 萬美元（即每股攤薄收益 0.26 美元）稅收支出。

We do anticipate cash benefits from our elections under this recent US tax legislation, but the current period income statement impact was negative. All-in net earnings for the quarter were $536 million or $3.86 per diluted share compared to $809 million or $5.86 per diluted share a year ago. Accelera non-cash charges were $240 million or $1.73 per diluted share.

我們預計根據最近的美國稅法，我們的選舉將帶來現金收益，但對本期損益表的影響是負面的。本季總淨收益為 5.36 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 3.86 美元，去年同期為 8.09 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 5.86 美元。Accelera 的非現金支出為 2.4 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.73 美元。

Excluding the Accelera charges and the impact of adopting the recent US tax legislation changes, our net earnings were $812 million or $5.85 per diluted share, down just $0.01 on the 40% decline in US truck volumes. Operating cash flow was $1.3 billion compared to $640 million a year ago. We have significantly improved our credit metrics since absorbing the Meritor acquisition and are now in a position of greater flexibility for capital allocation.

不計入 Accelera 的費用以及近期美國稅法改革的影響，我們的淨利潤為 8.12 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 5.85 美元，僅因美國卡車運輸量下降 40% 而下降 0.01 美元。經營現金流為13億美元，去年同期為6.4億美元。自從收購美馳以來，我們的信用指標已顯著改善，現在我們在資本配置方面擁有更大的靈活性。

Now let me comment a little bit more on segment performance and the remainder of 2025. Tariff costs impacted all of our operating segments. In the interest of time, I'm not going to call that out 5 times as I discuss each individual segment performance.

現在讓我再就細分市場表現和 2025 年剩餘時間做一些評論。關稅成本對我們所有營運部門都產生了影響。為了節省時間，我不會在討論每個單獨的片段表現時重複提及這一點 5 次。

For the Engine segment, third quarter revenues were $2.6 billion, a decrease of 11% from a year ago. EBITDA was 10%, a decrease from 14.7% as weaker North American and heavy-duty truck volumes, the cost and additional overhead of investing and deploying new engine platforms ahead of the 2027 emissions regulations, some weaker aftermarket sales were partially offset by higher volumes and pricing related to the launch of updated products in light-duty markets and overall disciplined cost management.

就引擎業務而言，第三季營收為 26 億美元，比去年同期下降了 11%。EBITDA 為 10%，較上年同期的 14.7% 有所下降，原因是北美和重型卡車銷量疲軟，為應對 2027 年排放法規而投資和部署新發動機平台的成本和額外開支，以及售後市場銷售疲軟，但部分被輕型卡車市場推出更新產品帶來的銷量和價格上漲以及整體嚴格的成本管理所抵消。

Component segment revenue was $2.3 billion, a decrease of 15% from a year ago. EBITDA was 12.5% compared to 12.9% of sales a year ago as weaker on-highway demand in North America was partially offset by operational efficiencies, tight cost management, and lower product coverage costs.

零件業務收入為 23 億美元，比去年同期下降 15%。EBITDA 佔銷售額的 12.5%，而去年同期為 12.9%，北美公路需求疲軟的影響被營運效率提高、成本控制嚴格以及產品覆蓋成本降低部分抵消。

In the Distribution segment, revenues increased 7% from a year ago to a record $3.2 billion, and EBITDA was also a record 15.5% compared to 12.5% of sales a year ago, driven by higher power generation demand and higher aftermarket earnings.

在分銷業務方面，營收較上年同期成長 7%，達到創紀錄的 32 億美元，EBITDA 也創下 15.5% 的紀錄，而去年同期銷售額佔比為 12.5%，這主要得益於更高的發電需求和更高的售後市場收益。

In the Power Systems segment, revenues were a record $2 billion, an increase of 18% from a year ago. EBITDA dollars were also a record of $457 million, increasing as a percent of sales from 19.4% to 22.9%, driven by strong volume particularly in data center applications, positive pricing and effective capacity expansion in a cost-effective way.

電力系統業務部門的營收創下20億美元的紀錄，較上年同期成長18%。EBITDA 金額也創下 4.57 億美元的紀錄，佔銷售額的百分比從 19.4% 增長到 22.9%，這主要得益於強勁的銷量，尤其是在數據中心應用領域，以及積極的定價和以經濟有效的方式進行的有效產能擴張。

Accelera revenues increased 10% to a record $121 million as increased e-mobility sales partially offset lower electrolyzer installations. Our EBITDA loss, excluding non-cash charges, $96 million compared to an EBITDA loss of $115 million a year ago, reflecting a lower cost base resulting from the actions that we took in the fourth quarter of 2024.

Accelera 的營收成長了 10%，達到創紀錄的 1.21 億美元，電動車銷售額的成長部分抵消了電解槽安裝量的下降。不計非現金支出，我們的 EBITDA 虧損為 9,600 萬美元，而去年同期 EBITDA 虧損為 1.15 億美元，這反映出由於我們在 2024 年第四季度採取的措施，成本基礎有所降低。

In summary, we delivered strong profitability for the third quarter as a result of improved operational execution, strong demand in power generation markets, and pricing that more than offset the sharp declines in North America truck markets and unfavorable impacts from tariffs, although it has to be noted that all of these factors were not uniform across each individual segment. While we saw an increased impact from tariffs in the third quarter, we've worked hard to mitigate the impact and expect to enter the fourth quarter close to a price-cost neutral position for tariffs or for those tariffs that were announced prior to the third quarter. The ongoing addition and adjustment of tariffs continues to present challenges.

總而言之，由於營運執行力的提高、發電市場的強勁需求以及價格的上漲，我們第三季度實現了強勁的盈利能力，價格上漲足以抵消北美卡車市場的急劇下滑和關稅帶來的不利影響，儘管必須指出的是，所有這些因素在每個細分市場中並不相同。雖然我們在第三季度看到了關稅帶來的更大影響，但我們已努力減輕這種影響，並預計在第四季度將接近關稅價格成本中性水平，或者對於在第三季度之前宣布的關稅而言也是如此。關稅的不斷增加和調整持續帶來挑戰。

In summary, our third-quarter results underscored Cummins' strong financial position and ability to navigate ongoing uncertainty. Our diversified portfolio and global network leave us well positioned to support our customers and continue to drive improvement in performance cycle over cycle. As we've discussed, we expect demand for Power Systems and Distribution to remain strong through the fourth quarter and going into 2026. At the risk of sounding cautiously optimistic, I hope that demand in North America on-highway markets is close to bottoming in the fourth quarter in what has been a protracted and difficult slowdown. We do anticipate a further 15% decline in our engine shipments to on-highway markets in the fourth quarter compared to the third quarter.

總而言之，我們第三季的業績凸顯了康明斯強勁的財務狀況和應對持續不確定性的能力。我們多元化的產品組合和全球網路使我們能夠更好地支援客戶，並持續推動業績週期性提升。正如我們之前討論過的，我們預計電力系統和配電的需求將在第四季度以及2026年保持強勁。雖然這麼說可能顯得過於樂觀，但我希望北美公路市場的需求在經歷了漫長而艱難的經濟放緩之後，能在第四季接近觸底反彈。我們預計第四季面向公路市場的引擎出貨量將比第三季進一步下降 15%。

We are hopeful of reinstating our guidance in February as we have more -- we hope to have more clarity on trade and regulatory policies that hopefully will provide stability for the North American truck industry and the broader industrial economy. As these markets recover, we are confident in our ability to build on this year's strong performance and continue delivering value to shareholders.

我們希望在二月恢復我們的指導意見，因為我們將掌握更多資訊——我們希望對貿易和監管政策有更清晰的了解，這些政策有望為北美卡車行業和更廣泛的工業經濟提供穩定性。隨著這些市場的復甦，我們有信心在今年強勁業績的基礎上再創佳績，並繼續為股東創造價值。

Now let me turn it back over to Nick.

現在我把麥克風交還給尼克。

Thank you, Mark. Out of consideration to others on the call, I would ask that you limit yourself to one question and a related follow-up. If you have an additional question, please rejoin the queue. Operator, we are ready for our first question.

謝謝你，馬克。出於對其他與會者的考慮，請您將問題限制在一個問題和一個相關的後續問題上。如果您還有其他問題，請重新排隊。接線員，我們準備好回答第一個問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Jamie Cook, Truist Securities.

（操作員說明）Jamie Cook，Truist Securities。

Congratulations on a nice quarter. I guess two questions. One, Mark, how you're thinking about engine margins in the fourth quarter and the ability to cover tariff costs or how to think about margins would be my first question.

恭喜你本季業績出色。我想問兩個問題。馬克，我的第一個問題是，你如何看待第四季度的引擎利潤率以及能否覆蓋關稅成本，或者你如何看待利潤率。

I guess then just my second question. As we think about Power Systems, obviously the margins were very strong in the quarter. Just trying to think through how we think about 2026, the ability to ramp production more? How you're thinking about price-cost? And I guess, Mark, do we need to raise the margin targets in Power Systems?

那我就問第二個問題吧。當我們談到電力系統時，很明顯，該季度的利潤率非常強勁。我們只是想思考一下，對於2026年，我們是否有能力進一步提高產量？你如何考慮價格成本？馬克，我想問一下，我們是否需要提高電力系統業務的利潤率目標？

High-quality questions to answer. Let's start with the Engine business, and then Jen can comment on Power Systems. Yeah, I think there are a number of things that the Engine business is dealing with that provide great complexity, right? We've got product changeover. We're preparing, hopefully, to launch new platforms.

需要回答的高品質問題。我們先從引擎業務說起，然後Jen可以談談動力系統。是的，我認為引擎業​​務涉及很多方面，這些方面都非常複雜，對吧？我們正在進行產品換代。我們正在積極籌備，希望能夠推出新的平台。

We've got some additional extra costs. We saw some slowdown in parts in the third quarter, and we're having to maintain this higher engineering budget until we get through the product launches. Having said all that, they're doing a lot. The leadership team within the Engine business across the company doing a lot to manage their costs. Hopefully, we're getting towards the low point. So I think, yeah, I wouldn't expect with what I know right now to see a dramatically different performance from the Engine business, albeit on lower volumes in the fourth quarter.

我們還有一些額外的費用。第三季部分業務成長放緩，因此我們不得不維持較高的工程預算，直到產品發布完成。說了這麼多，他們確實做了很多事。公司旗下引擎業務部門的領導團隊為控製成本做了許多工作。希望我們已經接近低谷了。所以我覺得，是的，就我目前所知，我預計引擎業務的表現不會有太大變化，儘管第四季的銷量會下降。

Clearly, volume is a temporary downward pressure, given short quarters, an inflated ramp-up which we're excited about on the Ram pickup which will kind of ease a bit. But overall, I think, well, hopefully, we're moving towards the bottom in terms of the pressures on the Engine business and Components.

顯然，銷量會暫時面臨下行壓力，考慮到季度較短，以及我們對 Ram 皮卡的興奮之情，銷量成長勢頭會有所緩解。但總的來說，我認為，嗯，希望如此，引擎業務和零件所面臨的壓力正在逐漸減輕。

And Jamie, on the power gen, obviously, we've seen really strong performance from both Power Systems and Distribution business. In Power Systems, in particular, we've been on couple year journey to really fix some of the underlying performance of that business, look at rationalizing the products that we're offering, how do we leverage the footprint that we have, get more strategic on how we're pricing in the market. And we did that at the same time that the power generation demand has grown at a really high rate, and we've been able to invest modestly in capacity expansion, about $200 million, bringing in new products kind of exactly the right time.

傑米，就發電業務而言，顯然，電力系統和配電業務都表現出色。尤其是在電力系統領域，我們已經花了幾年時間來真正解決該業務的一些根本性問題，研究如何合理化我們提供的產品，如何利用我們現有的市場份額，以及如何更具策略性地進行市場定價。同時，發電需求也以非常高的速度成長，我們得以適度投資約 2 億美元用於產能擴張，並在適當的時機推出了新產品。

So that really has been firing on all cylinders, if you would, and delivering incremental margins that are touching on 50%. So what I would say is we are committed to continuing to invest for profitable growth in that business. We had record order intake in Q3. So we think that the demand remains strong in particular for data centers and that we will continue to invest as it makes sense in capacity and products to profitably grow and improve business performance, but I would not expect it to stay at that trajectory of incremental margin improvement as we go into future years.

所以可以說，這方面真的火力全開，實現了接近 50% 的增量利潤。因此，我想說的是，我們致力於繼續投資，以實現該業務的獲利成長。第三季訂單量創歷史新高。因此，我們認為市場需求仍然強勁，尤其是對資料中心的需求，我們將繼續在產能和產品方面進行投資，以實現盈利增長並提高業務績效，但我預計未來幾年利潤率的持續增長不會保持這種趨勢。

Angel Castillo, Morgan Stanley.

安吉爾‧卡斯蒂略，摩根士丹利。

Congrats on another strong quarter here. Jen, I was hoping you could just kind of expand on your last comments that you just made about capacity additions. I think at this point, you're well kind of ahead of your expectations at Investor Day on data center sales. And as you mentioned, you already have that doubling of kind of large diesel engines capacity underway. But just in light of kind of the stronger demand, can you maybe walk us through what work or kind of assessments you might be doing on the back end to understand whether there is a need or a desire to kind of do either additional capacity investments in large diesel engines or potentially?

恭喜你們又一個季度業績出色。Jen，我希望你能詳細解釋一下你剛剛關於擴容的評論。我認為就目前而言，你們在資料中心銷售方面的投資者日業績已經遠遠超出了預期。正如您所提到的，大型柴油引擎的產能翻倍計畫已經在進行中。但鑑於目前較強勁的需求，您能否向我們介紹一下您在後端可能開展的工作或評估，以了解是否需要或希望對大型柴油引擎進行額外的產能投資？

And maybe more importantly, are you exploring any potential for expanding your lines on the natural gas engine to kind of increase to the larger engine sizes to perhaps pursue some of the kind of prime power opportunities that we're seeing out there for data centers as they look for other prime power kind of speed to power opportunities? So just kind of any comments on kind of this longer-term backdrop, given the strong demand we're seeing?

更重要的是，您是否正在探索擴大天然氣引擎生產線的可能性，以增加引擎尺寸，從而抓住資料中心目前正在尋找的其他主電源速度機會？鑑於目前強勁的需求，您對這種長期趨勢有什麼看法？

Yeah. So first, I'd say our focus has really been on this capacity investment that we've talked about. We're reaching the end of that doubling in capacity on large engines, as you noted, and position has heavily been in the backup power for data centers with the products that we have that we're selling into the market today. I'm really pleased with the execution of that team. We've tracked kind of ahead of schedule on that capacity expansion.

是的。首先，我想說，我們一直以來的重點都放在了我們討論過的產能投資。正如您所指出的，大型引擎產能翻倍的階段已經接近尾聲，而我們目前在市場上銷售的產品，其市場地位主要集中在資料中心的備用電源領域。我對團隊的執行力非常滿意。我們在產能擴張方面進展順利，甚至比預期還要快。

We're reaching the end as we come to the end of the year. And just to give you a sense, in 2024, for data center power generation, our total revenue for the company was $2.6 billion. About half of that was in Power Systems, about half of that was in DBU because one of the unique things that we have is engine, some of the key components and auxiliaries that we sell to that market plus the channel. So we're getting benefit in both PSBU and DBU.

隨著年末的臨近，我們也即將走到盡頭。為了讓大家有個概念，2024 年，我們公司在資料中心發電方面的總收入為 26 億美元。其中大約一半來自動力系統，大約一半來自DBU，因為我們擁有的獨特之處之一是發動機，以及我們向該市場和通路銷售的一些關鍵部件和輔助設備。因此，我們在 PSBU 和 DBU 中都獲得了好處。

For '25, we expect that revenue into the data center market is going to be up 30% to 35%. It's been ramping up Q4 last year. We had a nice bump up, continuing to ramp up this year. And so we'll be kind of at that full run rate on that product expansion for data centers.

預計 2025 年資料中心市場的營收將成長 30% 至 35%。去年第四季一直在加速成長。我們取得了不錯的成長，今年將繼續加速成長。因此，我們將以全速推進資料中心產品擴張。

And then that leads to kind of the second part of your question is really focused now on what's next. Are there additional places where we want to do capacity expansion of the products that we have because we think that that demand in that market is going to remain strong?

然後這就引出了你問題的第二部分，也就是接下來要做什麼。我們是否也希望在其他一些地方擴大現有產品的產能，因為我們認為這些市場的需求將保持強勁？

So we're actively looking at that. With the products that we have, engines for peak shaving, should we invest in prime power engines or more natural gas engines? So no decisions there, but certainly those are things that we're looking at and we'll continue to share as we make decisions on where we want to go next in the data center.

所以我們正在積極研究這個問題。就我們現有的產品而言，例如削峰發動機，我們應該投資主用動力發動機還是更多的天然氣發動機？所以目前還沒有做出任何決定，但這些確實是我們正在考慮的事情，我們會繼續分享我們對資料中心下一步發展方向的決定。

Yeah. And then just on the component technologies, we're also selling to other customers as well, somewhat akin to the components business story. So yeah, it's exciting to be talking about investment with visibility into returns in that business.

是的。此外，就組件技術而言，我們也向其他客戶銷售產品，這與組件業務的情況有些類似。是的，能夠談論投資並看到該行業的回報，這令人興奮。

That's very helpful. And then just for my follow-up, Mark, on the Section 232, can you help us quantify, I guess, how much the headwind is in 3Q and 4Q on kind of a gross basis? And any comments or kind of way to maybe put guardrails around the potential for getting a similar rebate on engines manufactured in the US as we've seen, I think, the US trucks manufacturers get? And what is kind of the financial impact of that as we think about potentially 2026 of getting such a rebate?

那很有幫助。馬克，關於第 232 節，我還有一個後續問題，你能幫我們量化一下，第三季和第四季面臨的阻力究竟有多大嗎？對於美國製造的引擎可能獲得類似美國卡車製造商所獲得的退稅，有什麼建議或辦法可以設定一些限制嗎？那麼，如果我們考慮在 2026 年獲得這樣的退稅，其財務影響會是什麼樣的呢？

Tell you what, I've got exactly the same questions that you've got. And we got -- we need to know a lot more details than we've currently got to be able to predict that. What I will say is we're in a -- we are strong manufacturer of engines in our plants here in the US. So we're really well positioned to help our customers and navigate through. But honestly, all these modelings, I know it's important in some regards but the actual details, there's five or six questions that we need a lot more details to, to be able to calculate it, let alone communicate it.

說實話，我和你一樣也有同樣的疑問。我們需要知道比目前掌握的更多細節才能做出預測。我想說的是，我們是一家實力雄厚的引擎製造商，我們的工廠位於美國。因此，我們完全有能力幫助我們的客戶應對各種情況。但說實話，我知道這些建模在某些方面很重要，但實際的細節，還有五、六個問題我們需要更多細節才能進行計算，更不用說交流了。

So what I would say is we're in a strong position, given our footprint, and we'll remain a strong partner to our customers through all of this. And you can generally tell from our tone that stability going forward would be really, really helpful. For what is outside of a broad economic recession or what I'd call a hard emissions change, this is the sharpest decline in truck orders that many of these who've been here a long-time witness. And it's not all down to tariffs, but they also don't help with that uncertainty.

所以我想說的是，鑑於我們的市場佈局，我們處於有利地位，而且在這一切過程中，我們將繼續成為客戶的強大合作夥伴。從我們的語氣中你通常可以聽出來，未來的穩定真的非常非常有幫助。除了大範圍的經濟衰退或我所說的排放標準大幅變化之外，這是許多長期在這裡工作的人所見證的卡車訂單的最大降幅。這並非完全是關稅造成的，但關稅也無助於消除這種不確定性。

So look forward to more clarity, even more so for stability, but we're in a good position overall. And we're trying to work through all this collaborative with customers and suppliers. It's been a huge demand on all participants.

所以，期待局勢更加明朗，穩定性方面更是如此，但整體而言，我們處境良好。我們正在努力與客戶和供應商合作解決所有這些問題。這對所有參與者來說都是巨大的挑戰。

David Raso, Evercore.

David Raso，Evercore。

Thinking about a delta between '25 and '26, the actions taken in Accelera sort of set up an interesting dynamic there. What percent of the losses right now are electrolyzers? How should we think about the actions taken sort of the decision around that business? How much that can improve the size of the losses from '25 to '26?

考慮到 2025 年和 2026 年之間的差異，Accelera 採取的行動在某種程度上建立了一種有趣的動態。目前電解槽的損失佔總損失的百分之多少？我們應該如何看待圍繞該業務所採取的行動和決策？這樣能將 2025 年到 2026 年的損失規模減少多少？

Yeah. What I would say is all we've recorded in this quarter the really non-cash impairment charge is mostly goodwill write-down which is disappointing but necessary given the weaker outlook. So I would say what we've done really doesn't so far, David, hasn't -- doesn't do much to change the trajectory. But as Jen pointed out, we obviously have been and continue to look very closely at further actions we can do to reduce the rate of losses. It's less than half of the total of the overall Accelera segment. But yeah, watch for updates on that from us.

是的。我想說的是，本季我們記錄的所有非現金減損支出主要是商譽減損，這令人失望，但考慮到前景疲軟，這是必要的。所以我想說，到目前為止，我們所做的一切，大衛，並沒有——並沒有對改變發展軌跡起到多大作用。但正如Jen指出的那樣，我們顯然一直在並將繼續密切關注我們可以採取哪些進一步措施來降低損失率。這還不到 Accelera 整個細分市場總量的一半。不過，請留意我們後續的更新資訊。

Okay. And actions that would help reduce that loss. I mean, once you make that decision on the write-down, I would think there's harder decisions playing out behind the scenes on cost. Are those actions that could help '26 or is there a longer time frame when I think of the delta between '25 and '26?

好的。以及有助於減少這種損失的措施。我的意思是，一旦你決定進行資產減記，我認為在幕後還有更艱難的成本決策需要考慮。這些措施對 2026 年有幫助嗎？還是說，考慮到 2025 年和 2026 年之間的時間差，應該考慮更長的時間跨度？

There are different types of actions, but we are conscious, if there's a lower demand environment, we're not -- nobody's comfortable sitting at the losses that we're at when the demand environments change. So we're looking at all that, and we will be transparent when we've concluded that here, but we're working on it right now.

行動方式有很多種，但我們很清楚，如果需求環境較低，我們就不會－當需求環境改變時，沒有人願意承受我們所面臨的損失。所以我們正在研究所有這些因素，一旦我們得出結論，我們會保持透明，但我們現在正在努力。

It's fair to say strategically we're continuing to look at the Accelera portfolio in light of how markets are moving, slowdown that's happening, what technologies we think are most likely to win and then investing in the places that we see the opportunity to position ourselves for the medium and long term and looking at how we reduce losses in other areas. At the end of last year, we did that in the fuel cell part of the business, and we're continuing to execute some of those changes. And now we're looking at electrolyzers, as Mark noted.

可以公平地說，從戰略角度來看，我們將繼續根據市場走向、經濟放緩的現狀來審視 Accelera 的投資組合，並考慮哪些技術最有可能勝出，然後在我們認為有機會為中長期發展做好準備的領域進行投資，並研究如何減少其他領域的損失。去年年底，我們在燃料電池業務方面做了這些工作，現在我們正在繼續執行其中的一些變革。正如馬克指出的那樣，現在我們正在研究電解槽。

It's fair to describe the decline in revenue outlook as sharp and dramatic and merits further close review which is ongoing right now.

將營收前景的下滑描述為急劇而劇烈是不爭的事實，值得進一步密切關注，而目前相關工作正在進行中。

Rob Wertheimer, Melius Research.

Rob Wertheimer，Melius Research。

Thanks for all the comments on direction. It's very helpful. On nat gas and data centers and prime power, I mean, Cummins obviously has very successful nat gas platforms in different engines. So I wonder if you could give us a mini teach-in on what that entails. Is it a hard engineering challenge to bring it to large engines? Is it you need a lot of operating hours? Maybe what goes into that decision.

感謝大家對方向提出的所有意見。這很有幫助。關於天然氣、資料中心和主電源，我的意思是，康明斯顯然在不同的引擎中擁有非常成功的天然氣平台。所以我想知道您能否簡單地講解一下這具體包含哪些內容。將這項技術應用於大型引擎是否是一項艱鉅的工程挑戰？您需要很長的營業時間嗎？或許是什麼因素促成了這個決定。

And then I wonder if you could just talk about any changes. I mean, you guys were ahead of the data center boom and are capitalizing on that. Anything shifting now? Any change in data center design? Is it all of them use back up the ratio? Just maybe what's evolved in the market over the last few months.

然後我想問您能否談談有哪些變化。我的意思是，你們早就預見了資料中心的蓬勃發展，並且正在從中獲利。現在情況有改變嗎？資料中心設計有任何變化嗎？它們都用來補充庫存了嗎？或許正是過去幾個月市場的變化所致。

Yeah. So as you said, I mean, Cummins has strength in engine, research and development and manufacturing capability. We understand natural gas. So the question is, we have a certain portfolio of natural gas products today and assessing what is -- if there's demand for natural gas for data centers, what's the right product? If we don't have it today in our development, a multiyear development cycle typically, but we have the capability to do that if we think that that is going to be attractive growth opportunity.

是的。正如你所說，我的意思是，康明斯在引擎、研發和製造能力方面都很有優勢。我們了解天然氣。所以問題是，我們目前擁有一定的天然氣產品組合，需要評估──如果資料中心對天然氣有需求，那麼哪種產品才是適當的？如果目前我們的研發中還沒有這項技術（通常需要多年的研發週期），但如果我們認為這將是一個有吸引力的成長機會，我們有能力做到這一點。

So that's how I would think about natural gas. In terms of the data center landscape, what you see is high reliability is absolutely critical. So the need to have backup power to ensure that high reliability is not going to go away. They don't run that often. Really, where the challenge is, is more in the prime power and can the grid support it and how do they solve the prime power challenge?

這就是我對天然氣的看法。就資料中心領域而言，高可靠性至關重要。因此，為了確保高可靠性，備用電源的需求不會消失。他們不常跑步。實際上，真正的挑戰在於主用功率，電網能否支撐，以及他們如何解決主用功率的挑戰？

And so that's where using a backup genset maybe for peak shaving or additional sources of prime power are what data centers are out exploring. And as I mentioned in my comments earlier, I think we have ability to do some peak shaving with products that we have today. We've started to invest in some stationary energy storage solutions that could be used in data center applications, and we're continuing to evaluate where else we think we're positioned to invest and get attractive returns.

因此，資料中心正在探索使用備用發電機組來削減尖峰負載或作為額外的主電源來源。正如我之前評論中提到的，我認為我們有能力利用現有的產品進行一些剃須方面的改進。我們已經開始投資一些可用於資料中心應用的固定式儲能解決方案，我們正在繼續評估我們認為自己還有哪些領域可以投資並獲得可觀的回報。

Kyle Menges, Citigroup.

凱爾門格斯，花旗集團。

I was hoping if you could just talk a little bit more about Accelera and actually just looking at the performance and -- I mean, it seems like you're actually still on track to hit the midpoint, if not a little bit above the full year guide within Accelera on revenues for this year. Sounds like e-mobility had some nice growth in the quarter as well. So would be helpful just to hear about the growth you're seeing in e-mobility versus electrolyzers and then also maybe at a high level the differences in profitability that you're seeing right now between the e-mobility piece of Accelera and the electrolyzer piece.

我希望你們能再多談談 Accelera，特別是它的表現——我的意思是，看起來你們實際上仍然有望達到 Accelera 今年營收的全年指導目標的中點，甚至可能略高於這個目標。看來電動車在本季也取得了不錯的成長。所以，如果您能了解一下您在電動車領域與電解槽領域所看到的成長情況，以及您目前在 Accelera 的電動車業務和電解槽業務之間看到的獲利能力差異，那就太好了。

Yeah. I would say most of the actual sales in e-mobility are bus applications, a lot of it here in the US and that's continuing and we're in a great position there. There's lots of other explorations and discussions that have been a big shakeout even in the e-mobility industry given, I would say, lower prospects for accelerated growth, even though we're growing the overall -- everybody's projections for growth has come down and that's led to a shakeout certainly a lot of the startups and other the less well-capitalized participants. So I think there's still a lot of discussion and future opportunity for Cummins in e-mobility.

是的。我認為，電動車的實際銷售量大部分來自公車應用，其中許多都發生在美國，而且這種情況還在持續，我們在這方面處於非常有利的地位。還有許多其他的探索和討論，即使在電動汽車行業也引發了很大的變革，因為我認為，加速增長的前景較低，儘管我們整體上仍在增長——每個人對增長的預期都下調了，這當然導致了變革，很多初創公司和其他資金較少的參與者都受到了影響。所以我認為康明斯在電動車領域仍有許多討論空間和未來發展機會。

And I think that's been generally been a good story that as the volumes and we've released new iterations of products that we've moved from, yeah, significant losses and negative gross margins of something a lot more stable and sustainable going forward. It's still somewhat muted, right, in the grand scheme of a $35 billion company, but we've seen clear progress there, and we're positive and staying invested there.

我認為這總體來說是一個好兆頭，隨著銷量的成長，我們推出了新產品，擺脫了巨額虧損和負毛利率的局面，走向了更穩定和可持續的未來。在一家市值 350 億美元的公司裡，它的成長幅度仍然相對較小，對吧？但我們已經看到了明顯的進展，我們對此持樂觀態度，並將繼續投資。

On electrolyzers, went back a couple years, we had pretty ambitious targets for growth, and we were tracking that trajectory every quarter. It was -- we were tracking years out, where do we need to be, and we were on that curve for significant revenue growth for quite some time. And the reality is, yes, it's dried up faster than anything I have seen in my career for a variety of reasons, especially here in the US, but also some of the adoption in international markets.

回顧幾年前的電解槽業務，我們制定了相當雄心勃勃的成長目標，每季都會追蹤這一成長軌跡。當時的情況是——我們著眼於未來幾年，思考我們需要達到什麼目標，而且我們已經朝著實現顯著的收入增長的目標邁出了堅實的一步，並且這一目標已經持續了相當長一段時間。而現實情況是，是的，由於各種原因，它的萎縮速度比我職業生涯中見過的任何事情都要快，尤其是在美國，但也與國際市場上的一些採用有關。

So whilst, yes, we probably guided a little cautiously going into the new year, not knowing exactly what would happen. So we're not way off on the revenue from the guidance that we no longer have, but the one that we originally gave. But yeah, it's just internally it surprised even us to the downside and so that's why. It might look to you like we're on track, but electrolyzer is way off. And it's not just for now, but then that leaves the orders.

所以，是的，我們在進入新的一年時可能採取了一些謹慎的策略，因為我們並不知道會發生什麼。所以，我們根據不再適用的指導意見所得出的收入預測並沒有太大偏差，而是與我們最初給出的預測基本一致。但確實，就連我們內部都對結果感到意外，甚至有些失望，所以才這樣。你或許覺得我們進展順利，但電解槽部分還遠遠落後。而且這不只是現在的情況，接下來就只剩下訂單了。

There's a big gestation period between taking an order, shipping a product, having it installed, recognizing the revenue. And so not only is that shorter orders now, that's leaving like a hole in the projections going forward for the next couple of years. So that's why we're acting now. So it's tough, very tough in ex e-mobility, but we're pleased with the progress, and I don't want that to be lost from the e-mobility team.

從接到訂單、出貨、安裝到確認收入，中間有一段很長的醞釀期。因此，不僅訂單量減少了，而且在未來幾年的預測中也出現了一個缺口。所以這就是我們現在採取行動的原因。所以，在電動車領域，情況非常艱難，但我們對所取得的進展感到滿意，我不希望電動車團隊失去這些成果。

That's helpful, Mark. And then just a follow-up on clarifying some of your comments on the engine margins and maybe just thinking about some of the puts and takes into the fourth quarter on engine margins as you start to neutralize tariffs, even though volumes could still be down sequentially. I mean, I guess the question, when you said engine could be kind of similar to the third quarter, does that mean that you have confidence in doing roughly 10% EBITDA margin again in the fourth quarter? Or are we talking about similar decrementals, in which case you could be talking about 8% EBITDA margins for engine in the fourth quarter based on volume comments?

那很有幫助，馬克。然後，我想就您關於發動機利潤率的一些評論做個後續說明，並考慮一下您在第四季度開始抵消關稅影響時，發動機利潤率的一些看漲和看跌情緒，即使銷量可能仍然會環比下降。我的意思是，您說引擎可能與第三季度類似，這是否意味著您有信心在第四季度再次實現約 10% 的 EBITDA 利潤率？或者我們說的是類似的遞減，在這種情況下，根據銷售數據，你可能在談論第四季度引擎的 8% EBITDA 利潤率？

I'll just say it out here in this, you can all -- I don't expect to have 8% margins in the fourth quarter in the Engine business, but some of the factors -- the volume is going down, not we expect it to, I'm unfortunately confident, but we hope that's a bottoming. We also saw a slowdown in parts. We hope that doesn't continue. And then, yeah, all the other things that we're doing on cost, productivity, managing through tariffs can all help mitigate. It's certainly not going to be dramatically better.

我在這裡就直說了，你們都可以——我不指望發動機業務第四季度能達到 8% 的利潤率，但有些因素——銷量正在下降，不是我們預期會下降，我很遺憾地相信會下降，但我們希望這是觸底反彈。我們也看到部分地區的成長放緩。我們希望這種情況不會持續下去。是的，我們在成本控制、生產力提升、關稅管控等方面所做的一切其他措施，都有助於緩解這個問題。情況肯定不會有顯著改善。

We're dealing with more headwinds. I've tried to be clear about that, so hopefully that helps. I would just say, there's always a bit of seasonality, fourth quarter going into the holiday period. Those usually get exaggerated when you're in a weak economic environment. But just know we're working hard, the Engine business is working hard every day to get this balance right.

我們面臨更多不利因素。我已經盡量把事情說清楚了，希望這能有所幫助。我想說的是，總是會有一些季節性因素，例如第四季臨近假期。當經濟環境疲軟時，這些情況通常會被誇大。但請大家知道，我們正在努力，引擎業務部門每天都在努力實現這種平衡。

And what you can see from our financial reports that we disclose the engineering costs by segment, by quarter. You can see our engineering costs are up year-over-year because we're still in this prelaunch development, not yet final certain regulations. So that's got to continue but that shouldn't be a step worse in the fourth quarter. So don't expect magic, but don't expect 8% EBITDA with what I know right now.

從我們的財務報告中可以看到，我們按業務部門、按季度揭露了工程成本。你可以看到，我們的工程成本逐年上升，因為我們仍處於發布前的開發階段，某些法規尚未最終確定。所以這種情況必須繼續下去，但第四季不應該更糟。所以不要指望奇蹟發生，但以我目前所了解的情況來看，也不要指望能達到 8% 的 EBITDA。

I'll just add a couple points. I mean, we've been working to flex down plants and so seeing that action coming through the full Q4 as well as the Engine business has seen more than its share of the net tariff impact that impacted them. In Q3, we can get to more full recovery. In Q4, it will reduce.

我再補充幾點。我的意思是，我們一直在努力縮減工廠規模，因此在整個第四季度都看到了這一舉措，發動機業務也受到了淨關稅影響的更大影響。第三季度，我們可以實現更全面的復甦。第四季將會減少。

I mean, there's always some natural variation across some of the businesses. In general, as we've said, we expect Power Systems and Distribution to be strong. No quarter is ever identical to the prior one, even if it looks similar on the top line. Pressure's still there on Engine business and Components. We've still got a tight control on costs, and we're figuring out what else we can do on Accelera. That's the headline.

我的意思是，不同行業之間總是存在一些自然差異。總的來說，正如我們所說，我們預計電力系統和配電產業將表現強勁。即使從頂部線條看很相似，也沒有任何一枚硬幣與前一枚完全相同。發動機及零件業務仍面臨壓力。我們仍然嚴格控製成本，並且正在思考我們還能為 Accelera 做些什麼。這就是標題。

And then as I mentioned, we've also done a lot to improve our credit metrics, which gives us flexibility for capital allocation going forward. So as much as troughs are tough, they also give you -- working through them effectively gives you that platform and that confidence to move forward when demand improves. Unfortunately, I wish I could be more bullish and say we're super confident. We feel like we're getting to the closer -- to the bottom of the trough on on-highway. We think the trends on power generation, data centers which benefit Power Systems and Distribution are going to continue.

正如我之前提到的，我們也做了很多工作來改善我們的信貸指標，這讓我們在未來的資本配置方面有了更大的靈活性。所以，儘管低潮時期很艱難，但有效地度過低潮也能為你提供平台和信心，讓你在需求好轉時繼續前進。可惜，我希望我能更樂觀一些，說我們很有信心。我們感覺自己快要到達谷底了──就像在高速公路上行駛時，快要到達谷底一樣。我們認為，有利於電力系統和配電的發電和資料中心的發展趨勢將會持續下去。

So hopefully, we get this coming together of strong demand across the company at some point here in the not-too-distant future. It's a little elusive right now on trucks, but we feel given how long it's been and how far it's been down, that is a question of time in a cyclical business. But it's not imminent that it's going to turn up.

所以，希望在不久的將來，我們能看到公司內部強勁的需求匯聚起來。目前卡車市場的情況還不太明朗，但考慮到這種情況持續的時間以及下滑的幅度，我們認為在一個週期性行業中，這只是時間問題。但這並不會很快發生。

Tami Zakaria, JPMorgan.

Tami Zakaria，摩根大通。

Great quarter. Are you able to speak to the distribution or services opportunity you see long-term as you're selling these gensets and probably have a very sizable installed base right now? What is the typical expectancy of these? Is there a scenario where we would see the first wave of aftermarket services picking up for those units that you've sold over the last 12 to 24 months? So any way to comment on that or quantify that.

很棒的季度。您能否談談您認為在長期內，隨著您銷售這些發電機組並可能擁有非常龐大的裝機量，在分銷或服務方面有哪些機會？這些的典型預期值是多少？是否存在這樣一種情況：我們會看到過去 12 到 24 個月內售出的那些設備的售後服務開始出現第一波增長？那麼，有什麼方法可以對此進行評論或量化嗎？

So Tami, for data centers, the distribution business gets revenue on the front end for a lot of the customers as they do the installation and some of the additional components and product around the engine and the genset in the data center. There's not a lot of aftermarket revenue in data center backup power because they don't run that often. So there's some service and support that we provide to those customers to ensure they stay up. It's not the same if you think about like a mining application or a heavy-duty truck application. That said, our installed base has been growing and those other applications that do drive more aftermarket content.

所以，Tami，對於資料中心來說，分銷業務可以在前端為許多客戶帶來收入，因為他們負責資料中心內引擎和發電機組的安裝以及一些額外的組件和產品。資料中心備用電源的售後市場收入並不高，因為它們運作頻率不高。因此，我們會為這些客戶提供一些服務和支持，以確保他們的服務正常運作。如果考慮採礦應用或重型卡車應用，情況就不同了。也就是說，我們的用戶群一直在成長，而其他一些應用程式也確實推動了更多售後市場內容的發展。

So we believe aftermarket, in general, will be a tailwind for the distribution business and especially as customers come back, there's a little bit of waiting on service that isn't necessary right now because of business financial conditions, but we think that we'll see some improvement in aftermarket, as Mark had noted.

因此，我們相信售後市場總體上將對分銷業務起到推動作用，尤其是在客戶回歸之後。由於目前的商業財務狀況，服務方面存在一些不必要的等待，但我們認為售後市場將會改善，正如馬克所指出的那樣。

Understood. That's very helpful. And if NOx 2027 is not delayed after review, how are you thinking about the cadence of any product launches in 2026 tied to that?

明白了。那很有幫助。如果 NOx 2027 在審查後沒有延期，您認為與此相關的 2026 年任何產品發布節奏會如何？

Yeah. Great. Well, we continue to maintain our focus on development of the new products that we're launching for '27 and feel good about how we're positioned with the new platforms and technology that we're bringing to our customers. It's important to understand we've never had this level of uncertainty around regulation. So that's certainly been challenging and keeping our team focused on the launches ahead, starting to work with our supply base on different scenarios and what that could mean to try to ensure we can offer product to our customers as we understand that decision.

是的。偉大的。我們將繼續專注於開發將於 2027 年推出的新產品，並且對我們為客戶帶來的新平台和技術的定位感到滿意。重要的是要明白，我們從未在監管方面面臨過如此大的不確定性。因此，這無疑具有挑戰性，我們需要讓團隊專注於即將推出的產品，開始與我們的供應商合作，研究不同的方案及其可能意味著什麼，以確保我們能夠在理解這一決定的情況下為客戶提供產品。

And really, we've been engaging closely with the EPA as they look at opportunities to try to take some cost out of that rule and also just emphasizing the need to get certainty as soon as possible. And I think everybody, the OEMs in the industry are pushing on that certainty point. So we're prepared to launch, really hoping to give that certainty on direction in the not-too-distant future. And assuming that the '27 regulations largely stay in place as they are today, we'll be ready to launch our products into the market in '27.

事實上，我們一直在與美國環保署密切合作，他們正在尋找機會來降低該規則的成本，同時也強調需要盡快獲得確定性。我認為業內所有廠商，包括原始設備製造商（OEM），都在努力實現這一點。因此，我們已經做好啟動準備，真心希望能在不久的將來為大家指引方向。假設 2027 年的法規基本上保持不變，我們將在 2027 年準備好將我們的產品推向市場。

Steven Fisher, UBS.

史蒂文費雪，瑞銀集團。

Congrats on the power results. Just curious on the international data center opportunities relative to the US, how do you see those being different? And is there any difference in the momentum there? And how are the competitive dynamics different internationally versus on the domestic side?

恭喜你取得如此優異的成績。我很好奇國際資料中心相對於美國的發展機遇，您認為它們之間有哪些不同之處？那麼，那裡的動量有什麼不同嗎？國際競爭格局與國內競爭格局有何不同？

If you look at the data center market, I mean, we see strong and growing demand in US and China. Those are the kind of the standouts. There's growth globally. You heard in some of my numbers on how the market is moving.

如果你觀察一下資料中心市場，你會發現美國和中國的需求強勁且不斷成長。這些都是佼佼者。全球都在成長。從我的一些數據中，你已經了解到市場是如何波動的。

We're seeing investment in data centers and other markets around the world, but the two biggest areas are really US and China. And of course, everybody is trying to figure out how to get in and compete in that market. So we're well -- very well positioned today and really trying to focus on continuing to maintain a strong position with our products as others try to figure out how do they take advantage of those market opportunities.

我們看到世界各地都在對資料中心和其他市場進行投資，但最大的兩個地區實際上是美國和中國。當然，每個人都在想辦法進入這個市場並參與競爭。所以，我們目前處於非常有利的地位，並且正在努力專注於繼續保持我們產品的強勢地位，而其他人則在努力思考如何利用這些市場機會。

Okay, and then -- go ahead, Mark.

好的，那麼——請開始吧，馬克。

I was going to say, obviously, in China, you tend -- in most of our markets, you tend to see more presence of local competition or trying to get in than we do in the US or in other markets.

我本來想說，很顯然，在中國，在我們的大多數市場中，你往往會看到比美國或其他市場更多的本地競爭對手或試圖進入市場的競爭。

That makes sense. And then on the Power Systems margins in general, obviously still very strong, and you talked about the 50% incrementals before. I guess just noticing as the years progressed, the segment's margins have kind of flattened out a little bit. I'm just kind of curious what's driving that. Are there other things outside of data centers that are restraining that?

這很有道理。而電力系統業務的整體利潤率顯然仍然非常強勁，您之前也提到過 50% 的成長。我注意到，隨著時間的推移，該細分市場的利潤率似乎有所下降。我只是有點好奇是什麼原因導致的。除了資料中心之外，還有其他因素限制這種發展嗎？

I know at the beginning of the year we talked a lot about the aftermarket components in there. Maybe that was just fluctuating a little bit. Just curious how to think about sort of that flattening that we're seeing over the course of this year.

我知道年初的時候我們討論了很多關於裡面的改裝零件。或許只是略有波動而已。我只是好奇該如何看待我們今年看到的這種趨於平緩的趨勢。

I would say the general -- so that's the great news. There is some natural variation between aftermarket, old goods, segments. So some of that sometimes is at play a little bit. The good news (technical difficulty) back to somebody asking that should we raise the targets? I really like the way you're thinking. I'm sure Jenny and the team might be dialing in. If not, we'll relay that to them later.

總的來說——這是個好消息。售後市場、舊貨市場和各個細分市場之間存在一些自然差異。所以，有時候這些因素會起到一定作用。好消息（技術難題）回應了有人提出的「我們是否應該提高目標？」的問題。我非常欣賞你的思考方式。我相信珍妮和她的團隊可能正在努力連接網路。如果不是，我們稍後會轉達給他們。

But yeah, really proud of the work that we've done there. And with rising demand, yes, there's some capacity investment. We're expecting earnings growth. Let's just put it out there. We're expecting earnings growth from here going into next year with what we know right now.

是的，我真的為我們在那裡所做的工作感到自豪。隨著需求的成長，確實也進行了一些產能投資。我們預計獲利將成長。咱們就直說吧。根據我們目前掌握的信息，我們預計明年獲利將持續成長。

Noah Kaye, Oppenheimer.

諾亞凱，奧本海默。

Jen, I think you framed it well and talked about the level of uncertainty right now as you prepare for next year's product launch vis-a-vis the regulations. But as you kind of get into year-end budgetary planning, is it fair to think of as a baseline that engineering and development spend can be a potential tailwind into next year? Or would you expect it to be a headwind if the base case of unchanged regulations goes forward?

Jen，我認為你表達得很好，也談到了在準備明年產品發佈時，由於監管方面存在諸多不確定性。但是，在進行年終預算規劃時，將工程和開發支出視為來年的潛在利好因素，這種想法是否合理呢？或者，如果現行法規不變的基本方案得以實施，您是否認為這將構成不利因素？

In the base case of unchanged regulation, I would think of our research spend as pretty flat through next year when we launch the product, and then we'll have the ability to start decreasing that after that. And then I would think about just in terms of demand, that's where our -- as we're planning for next year, that's where the highest error bars are is what's going to happen in on-highway demand.

在監管政策不變的基本情況下，我認為到明年產品上市時，我們的研發支出將基本保持不變，之後我們將有能力開始減少研發支出。然後我會考慮需求方面的問題，因為我們正在為明年做計劃，而誤差最大的就是公路上的需求狀況。

As Mark noted, we think we're reaching the bottom. We think there's some upside. When does that happen given the capacity that's been taken out as we've responded to this big down cycle, how quickly will capacity be added back once demand starts to come up? So I'm thinking about some revenue increase at some point in the year, but R&D staying pretty flat.

正如馬克指出的那樣，我們認為我們已經觸底了。我們認為還有一些上漲空間。考慮到我們為因應此次經濟大幅下滑而削減的產能，一旦需求開始回升，產能何時才能恢復？所以我正在考慮今年某個時候增加收入，但研發投入將保持基本不變。

Yeah. Accelera probably won't be growing, and there's always the question of what are we investing in the future, whether that's in Engines and Components or in Power Systems or future technologies. But yeah, not a dramatic change for the next year. There's just natural inflation because a lot of those costs are people costs. There is some natural inflation that we're always counting against. So it will not be a significant tailwind, let's put it like that. Longer term, yeah, but not tomorrow.

是的。Accelera 可能不會再成長了，而且我們始終要思考未來應該投資什麼，無論是引擎和零件，還是動力系統，還是未來技術。不過，明年應該不會有太大變化。因為很多成本都是人力成本，所以出現自然通貨膨脹是很正常的。我們始終要考慮到一定程度的自然通膨。所以，這麼說吧，這不會是一股明顯的順風。從長遠來看是的，但不是明天。

Not yet.

還沒有。

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And on that topic of investing, and I want to tie it back to the discussion around the prime power opportunity. 30% of data center sites could be using prime power in some form five years out from now. You've got fuel cell in the portfolio. You've got battery. You've got natural gas and diesel gen. How do you think about tying together some of those elements, including what might sit in Accelera today to go after expanded wallet share if prime power becomes more of a growth opportunity?

是啊，是啊，是啊。關於投資這個主題，我想把它和主電源的投資機會連結起來。五年後，30%的資料中心可能會以某種形式使用主電源。你們的產品組合裡有燃料電池。你的電池有電了。你們有天然氣發電機和柴油發電機。您認為應該如何將這些要素結合起來，包括 Accelera 目前可能擁有的哪些資源，以便在主要電力成為更大的成長機會時，能夠爭取更大的市場份額？

Yeah. Well, our strategy really has been to maintain a portfolio of solutions, likely across different customers and markets. There's not going to be one answer. I think our strong position in engines as power demand grows and as energy transition pushes out positions us really well. We're really more focused, frankly, in both power generation and in mobile applications on the battery opportunities where we think there's more opportunity versus fuel cell.

是的。嗯，我們的策略一直是維護一個解決方案組合，面向不同的客戶和市場。這個問題不會只有一個答案。我認為，隨著電力需求的成長和能源轉型的推進，我們在引擎領域的強大地位使我們處於非常有利的地位。坦白說，無論是在發電領域還是在行動應用領域，我們都更加關注電池領域的機遇，因為我們認為電池領域比燃料電池領域更有發展潛力。

As you know, we've slowed down some of the investment and work in the fuel cell side. And there'll be more to say if we have a clear investment that we think is going to be attractive on the prime side. But today, we're really focused on continuing to execute on some of those investments that we've made to expand capacity in standby and being disciplined in how we think about additional investments into that market.

如您所知，我們已經放緩了燃料電池的一些投資和工作。如果我們有明確的投資項目，並且認為該項目在優質地段會很有吸引力，我們會再多說一些。但如今，我們真正關注的是繼續執行我們已經做出的一些投資，以擴大備用容量，並在考慮對該市場進行額外投資時保持謹慎。

Yeah, I think the great thing with what we've done right now, it's relatively modest investments for a lot of growth with quite high predictability of returns. So we're definitely enjoying that in our financial results. Should do more going forward.

是的，我認為我們目前所做的事情最棒的地方在於，它以相對適度的投資實現了巨大的成長，並且回報具有相當高的可預測性。因此，我們在財務表現中確實享受了這一點。今後應該會做得更多。

Scott Group, Wolfe Research.

Scott Group，Wolfe Research。

This is Cole on for Scott. Maybe just to expand on engine margins, it sounds like the net tariff impact peaked in 3Q as you recover more price and ramp down facilities in 4Q. But as you look ahead to 2026, a 3.75% rebate is not immaterial. How much could this positively impact margins in 1Q or throughout 2026, all else equal?

這是科爾替補斯科特上場。也許只是為了進一步說明引擎利潤率，聽起來淨關稅影響在第三季度達到頂峰，因為隨著價格回升，第四季度工廠規模縮小。但展望 2026 年，3.75% 的退稅額並非微不足道。在其他條件不變的情況下，這會對 2026 年第一季或全年的利潤率產生多大的正面影響？

I just can't -- I simply can't answer that. I wouldn't be thinking about tariffs as margin improvement things. It's been a big cost headwind that we've been trying to recover and work with all that we can to mitigate the cost. I think -- I understand why you're asking it, but we are not framing tariffs as a margin opportunity in any way, shape, or form. It's been a big hindrance to our industry, and hopefully, we get stability and relief.

我實在無法回答這個問題。我不會把關稅視為提高利潤率的手段。這是一個很大的成本阻力，我們一直在努力彌補，並盡一切可能降低成本。我想——我明白你為什麼會問這個問題，但我們絕不會以任何方式、任何形式將關稅視為利潤機會。這對我們的產業造成了很大的阻礙，希望我們能夠獲得穩定和緩解。

Okay. Fair enough.

好的。很公平。

You're right. Going into Q4, we are -- it is true, we're catching up more with the recovery of the tariffs. I'd correct myself, but anything incremental, that's not the way we're thinking about it. We're hoping there's a platform for greater demand, the end user customers.

你說得對。進入第四季度，的確，我們正在逐步趕上關稅的恢復進程。我得糾正自己，但任何漸進式的改變，我們都不是那樣考慮的。我們希望能夠建立一個滿足更大需求的平台，也就是吸引終端用戶客戶。

Yeah, just to reiterate Mark's point, the way to think about it is if we get stability in tariffs and customers start ordering again, that'll help our margins because we'll be utilizing our plants more, but by itself as a margin improvement. We're just trying to cover the cost, basically.

是的，我只是想重申馬克的觀點，這樣想的話，如果關稅穩定下來，客戶開始再次下單，這將有助於提高我們的利潤率，因為我們將更充分地利用我們的工廠，但這本身就能提高利潤率。我們基本上只是想收回成本而已。

Yeah. And we don't know enough to know all these -- the nuances of any recently announced things, rebates or other things. There's just a lot more detail. Even the emissions regulations, it's great to get the headline. There's a gazillion things that you need to know between that as to how that actually works financially, practically, and other things. So we'd love to give you more clarity. We just can't yet.

是的。我們對這些資訊了解得還不夠多，無法了解所有這些——最近宣布的任何事項、折扣或其他事項的細微差別。細節方面豐富得多。即使是排放法規，能登上新聞頭條也很棒。這其中涉及方方面面，例如財務、實際操作等等，有很多事情你需要了解。所以我們很樂意為您詳細解釋。我們現在還做不到。

All makes sense. And maybe just on the competitive dynamic, there's like a lot of moving pieces with certain OEMs now either in a better or worse competitive position due to these new Section 232 tariffs. How do you expect this to impact your share position across the Engine business moving forward?

一切都說得通。或許就競爭格局而言，由於這些新的 232 條款關稅，某些 OEM 廠商的競爭地位可能有所改善，也可能有所惡化，這其中有許多變數。您預計這將如何影響您未來在引擎業務中的份額？

We are in a strong position to support all of our customers with our US base, and we've got -- the great news is we've got great penetration across multiple brands and OEMs and our -- generally, the trend has been for our customer demand for Cummins products has been rising in heavy and medium-duty truck over the last few years. So we feel like we're really well positioned, but it's obviously been very complex for all involved and continues to be so.

憑藉我們在美國的業務基礎，我們有能力為所有客戶提供支援。好消息是，我們的產品在多個品牌和原始設備製造商 (OEM) 中都擁有很高的滲透率。總的來說，過去幾年，客戶對康明斯產品在重型和中型卡車領域的需求一直在上升。所以我們感覺自己處於非常有利的位置，但顯然這對所有相關人員來說都非常複雜，而且這種情況還會持續下去。

Chad Dillard, Bernstein.

查德·迪拉德，伯恩斯坦。

So just given the market demand for standby power that you guys talked about record level of orders this past quarter, does Cummins need to expand capacity beyond what you've already announced? And then I was hoping you'd comment on, I guess, the role of standby power as more prime power moves behind the meter.

鑑於你們剛才提到的備用電源市場需求，以及上個季度創紀錄的訂單量，康明斯是否需要在已經宣布的產能基礎上進一步擴大產能？然後，我希望您能談談待機電源的作用，因為越來越多的主電源轉移到了電錶後面。

Yeah. So from a capacity perspective, certainly we're looking at, in addition to evaluating our -- if we do anything on the prime power side, which we've talked a lot about this morning. We are evaluating are there places that we can continue to invest in capacity because we do see such strong demand and whether it's the orders we took last quarter, the conversations we are having with some of our customers around the world, we think that that demand is going to continue. And so if there's places that we think we can invest to take capacity up, we will be evaluating that certainly.

是的。所以從容量的角度來看，我們當然正在考慮，除了評估我們的——如果我們在主電源方面採取任何行動，我們今天早上已經談論了很多。我們正在評估是否還有一些地方可以繼續投資產能，因為我們確實看到了強勁的需求，無論是上個季度我們接到的訂單，還是我們與世界各地一些客戶的對話，我們都認為這種需求將會持續下去。因此，如果我們認為有可以投資以提高產能的地方，我們肯定會進行評估。

And we still think that in the coming years this demand for prime power is going to continue. While I do think that there tends to be a hype cycle around technology, fundamentally the need to store more data in the cloud, whether it's AI or other driven, is a trend that's going to continue to grow.

我們仍然認為，未來幾年對主電源的需求將會持續下去。雖然我認為科技領域往往存在炒作週期，但從根本上講，無論是人工智慧驅動還是其他驅動，在雲端儲存更多資料的需求都將持續成長。

And then second question just on tariffs. So can you quantify the gross tariff impact in 2025? And then what's the split between IEEPA versus 232? And if we do get IEEPA rolled back, I mean, should we consider this more of like a pass-through?

第二個問題是關於關稅的。那麼，您能否量化2025年關稅的總影響？那麼，IEEPA 與 232 之間的比例是多少呢？如果 IEEPA 真的被撤銷了，我的意思是，我們是否應該把它看作是一種過渡措施？

We have not provided the guidance on the gross amounts generally, but the net position has been negative for the company and we're in the tens of millions of dollars of negative impact each quarter so far. That's what I can tell you. And what happens, I'm just not going to speculate. We just don't know enough for what happens. But as we said, as clearly as I possibly can, we've been battling to offset costs on the industry. It's not a margin -- it's a margin diluter even if we recover it, right?

我們沒有提供關於總額的整體指導，但公司的淨資產為負，到目前為止，每季的負面影響都高達數千萬美元。我只能告訴你這些。至於接下來會發生什麼，我就不妄加猜測了。我們對接下來會發生什麼事了解太少了。但正如我們所說，我已經盡可能清楚地表明，我們一直在努力抵消行業成本。即使我們能收回成本，這也不是利潤——反而會稀釋利潤，對吧？

There's a lot of moving parts between IEEPA and 232 tariffs and uncertainty around that. So really, we want to understand the details on that before we provide any color on what that looks like. The great news is we make our engines and our gensets for the US here in the US, and the team has done an outstanding job of navigating a lot of change and challenge and working to recover the cost of those tariff. So really proud of what they've done given the environment that we've been navigating this year.

IEEPA 和 232 關稅之間存在著許多變數，也存在著許多不確定性。所以，我們確實想先了解其中的細節，然後再給任何關於它具體是什麼樣子的描述。好消息是我們為美國市場生產的引擎和發電機組都在美國本土製造，而且我們的團隊在應對諸多變化和挑戰以及努力收回關稅成本方面做得非常出色。考慮到我們今年所處的環境，我真的為他們所取得的成就感到驕傲。

All right. Appreciate it, everybody. Thanks for joining us.

好的。謝謝大家。謝謝您的參與。

That concludes our teleconference for the day. Thank you all for participating and your continued interest. As always, the Investor Relations team will be available for questions after the call. Thank you.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與與持續關注。與往常一樣，投資者關係團隊將在電話會議結束後解答您的問題。謝謝。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您可以在此時斷開線路。感謝您的參與。