CMB.TECH NV (CMBT) 2020 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Euronav Q3 2020 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host today, Brian Gallagher. Please go ahead.

您好，歡迎來到 Euronav 2020 年第三季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，正在記錄此事件。我現在想將會議轉交給今天的主持人 Brian Gallagher。請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning and afternoon to everyone, and thanks for joining Euronav's Q3 2020 Earnings Call. Before I start, I would like to say a few words.

謝謝。大家早上好，下午好，感謝您加入 Euronav 的 2020 年第三季度財報電話會議。在開始之前，我想說幾句話。

The information discussed on this call is based on information as of today, Thursday, the 5th of November 2020, and may contain forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Forward-looking statements reflect current views with respect to future events and financial performance and may include statements concerning plans, objectives, goals, strategies, future events, performance, underlying assumptions and other statements, which are not statements of historical facts. All forward-looking statements are critical to the company or to persons acting on its behalf are expressly qualified in their entirety by reference to the risks, uncertainties and other factors discussed in the company's filings with the SEC, which are available free of charge on the SEC's website at www.sec.gov and on our own company's website at euronav.com.

本次電話會議討論的信息基於截至今天（2020 年 11 月 5 日，星期四）的信息，可能包含涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述反映了當前對未來事件和財務業績的看法，可能包括有關計劃、目標、目標、戰略、未來事件、業績、基本假設和其他陳述的陳述，這些陳述不是歷史事實的陳述。所有前瞻性陳述對公司或代表公司行事的人都至關重要，參考公司提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中討論的風險、不確定性和其他因素，這些陳述在整體上明確合格，這些文件可在美國證券交易委員會免費獲得SEC 的網站 www.sec.gov 和我們公司的網站 euronav.com。

You should not place undue reliance on forward-looking statements. Each forward-looking statement speaks only as of the date of the particular statement, and the company undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from these forward-looking statements. Please take a moment to read our safe harbor statement on Page 2 of the slide presentation.

您不應過分依賴前瞻性陳述。每份前瞻性聲明僅在特定聲明發布之日有效，公司不承擔公開更新或修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務。實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述存在重大差異。請花點時間閱讀幻燈片演示文稿第 2 頁上的安全港聲明。

With that, I will now pass on to Chief Executive, Hugo De Stoop, to start with the agenda slide on Slide 3. Sir, over to you.

說到這裡，我現在將請首席執行官 Hugo De Stoop 從幻燈片 3 的議程幻燈片開始。先生，請交給您。

Thank you, Brian. Welcome to our call today, wherever you are. In terms of the agenda, I will firstly run through the Q2 highlights before passing on to Lieve, our CFO, who will provide a full financial review of the net income statement and the balance sheet. Then Brian, our Head of Investor Relations, Market Research and Communications, will look at the current market themes in the tanker market before I return to discuss the FSO contract and Euronav outlook before we take questions.

謝謝你，布萊恩。無論您身在何處，今天都歡迎您撥打我們的電話。在議程方面，我將首先介紹第二季度的亮點，然後再轉交給我們的首席財務官 Lieve，他將對淨損益表和資產負債表進行全面的財務審查。然後，我們的投資者關係、市場研究和傳播主管 Brian 將在我返回討論 FSO 合同和 Euronav 前景之前研究油輪市場當前的市場主題，然後再接受提問。

So let's turn to Slide 4 and the highlights page. The tanker market performance was mixed during Q3 to say the least. The first half of Q3, as we updated in early August, was robust with early freight rates driven by what had been at that point in time 2 positive factors: the strong recovery trajectory of oil demand and a positive disruption with tank capacity held out of the market via congestions or storage requirements.

那麼讓我們轉到幻燈片 4 和亮點頁面。至少可以說，第三季度油輪市場表現好壞參半。正如我們在 8 月初更新的那樣，第三季度上半年表現強勁，早期運費受到當時兩個積極因素的推動：石油需求的強勁復甦軌跡和油箱容量的積極中斷通過擁塞或存儲要求的市場。

Both of these factors have unwound over the past 3 months with freight rates under fairly constant pressure since late August. We stated in early August that there was far less visibility than usual, and this has proven to be the case and remain so as we entered Q4. The usual seasonal pattern of improving demand for oil into the key winter period has not gained traction as vessel supply remains elevated, cargoes are limited with low visibility on cargo programs and sentiment amongst owners remaining weak when setting freight rates given this background.

這兩個因素在過去 3 個月中都已解除，運費自 8 月下旬以來一直承受著相當大的壓力。我們在 8 月初表示，能見度遠低於往常，事實證明情況確實如此，並且在我們進入第四季度時仍然如此。在關鍵的冬季期間，石油需求改善的通常季節性模式並沒有獲得牽引力，因為船舶供應量仍然很高，貨物有限，貨運計劃的能見度低，並且在這種背景下，船東在設定運費時情緒仍然疲軟。

Nevertheless, during this period, we returned to our shareholders 80% of our net income earned during Q2 totaling $200 million, split 50% in cash dividends and 50% via share buybacks. This brings me to Slide 5 and the capital allocation at Euronav, which remains an important and key focus for the Board and management. At Euronav, we always try to be balanced and consistent in our allocation. We do have some mandatory debt repayment as well as some revolving credit facility reductions, which are noncash. But given where our current leverage is, we do not need to repay more debt for the time being.

儘管如此，在此期間，我們將第二季度總計 2 億美元的淨收入的 80% 返還給了股東，其中 50% 的現金股息和 50% 的股票回購。這讓我想到了幻燈片 5 和 Euronav 的資本配置，這仍然是董事會和管理層的一個重要和關鍵焦點。在 Euronav，我們始終努力在分配中保持平衡和一致。我們確實有一些強制性的債務償還以及一些循環信貸額度的減少，這些都是非現金的。但考慮到我們目前的槓桿，我們暫時不需要償還更多的債務。

We remain committed to our return target that is 80% of net income to shareholders. For the third quarter, that is the equivalent of EUR 37 million that we will split, again, 50% of the available as cash dividend of $0.09 per share and 50% as a buyback that we intend to complete before the end of Q4. When repurchasing shares, we will always try to create long-term shareholder value rather than giving support to a share price, which has been anyway very volatile during the quarter.

我們仍然致力於實現股東淨收入的 80% 的回報目標。對於第三季度，這相當於 3700 萬歐元，我們將再次拆分可用的 50% 作為每股 0.09 美元的現金股息和 50% 作為我們打算在第四季度末之前完成的回購。回購股票時，我們將始終努力創造長期股東價值，而不是為股價提供支持，無論如何，該季度股價一直非常波動。

There is one small change to be noted in our fleet renewal program. Given where the market is, we have pushed forward to 2021 1 of the 4 VLCC newbuilding acquired via resale of contract. This means that we will take delivery of all 4 VLCC in the first quarter of 2021.

我們的機隊更新計劃中有一個小變化需要注意。鑑於市場所在，我們已將通過轉售合同獲得的 4 艘 VLCC 新造船中的 1 艘提前至 2021 年。這意味著我們將在 2021 年第一季度接收所有 4 艘 VLCC。

I now turn it over to Lieve Logghe, our CFO, for more detail on the financials.

我現在將其轉交給我們的首席財務官 Lieve Logghe，以了解有關財務的更多詳細信息。

Thank you, Hugo. EBITDA for the third quarter of 2020 amounts to $145 million or $0.71 per share. Net income equates to $46.2 million or $0.52 per share. Strong cost control remains the focus. Focus is set not only on shipping expenses but also on G&A negatively affected by a softer dollar. Furthermore, the financing expenses are lower, thanks to the reduced debt level and lower reference interest rate.

謝謝你，雨果。 2020 年第三季度的 EBITDA 為 1.45 億美元或每股 0.71 美元。淨收入相當於 4620 萬美元或每股 0.52 美元。強有力的成本控制仍然是重點。重點不僅放在運費上，還放在受美元走軟負面影響的 G&A 上。此外，由於債務水平降低和參考利率降低，融資費用較低。

This brings me to the next slide being the Euronav balance sheet position as per September 30, 2020. The company remains in a solid position with a very strong financial balance sheet. The book leverage ratio is 35.8%, and our liquidity position is in excess of $1.2 billion, of which $161 million is in cash, and the remainder is parked under revolving credit facilities in order not to burn our pockets.

這使我進入下一張幻燈片，即截至 2020 年 9 月 30 日的 Euronav 資產負債表狀況。該公司仍然處於穩固的地位，擁有非常強大的財務資產負債表。賬面槓桿率為 35.8%，我們的流動資金頭寸超過 12 億美元，其中 1.61 億美元是現金，其餘部分存放在循環信貸額度下，以免燒錢。

Strong focus has been put to reduce working capital requirements by collecting outstanding receivables generated from the high Q2 market environment. This cash focus, combined with the operational results, supported Euronav to further reduce net financial debt by $62 million in Q3. But financing is indeed constantly evolving, and that has impacted Euronav already with a move to put a major portion of our lending, some $730 million, into a sustainability loan, which we cover in the next slide.

通過收集第二季度高市場環境產生的未清應收賬款，重點放在減少營運資金需求上。這種對現金的關注，加上經營業績，支持 Euronav 在第三季度進一步減少了 6200 萬美元的淨金融債務。但融資確實在不斷發展，這已經對 Euronav 產生了影響，將我們貸款的大部分（約 7.3 億美元）用於可持續發展貸款，我們將在下一張幻燈片中介紹。

Whilst a busy slide, this shows how we took 2 existing facilities that would have matured in the next 18 months and have refinanced them into 1 larger sustainability facility. This is the first major financing of our fleet we have with specific emission requirements. The loan includes clear targets to reduce our green gas emissions over its entire duration. These targets start immediately with compliance over the first 12 months being rewarded with a reduced interest coupon of 5 basis points. This will be independently measured and verified.

雖然是一張繁忙的幻燈片，但它顯示了我們如何利用 2 個將在未來 18 個月內成熟的現有設施，並將它們重新融資為 1 個更大的可持續發展設施。這是我們擁有特定排放要求的車隊的第一筆重大融資。該貸款包括在整個期限內減少我們的綠色氣體排放的明確目標。這些目標立即開始，並在前 12 個月內遵守 5 個基點的優惠券獎勵。這將被獨立測量和驗證。

The targets set are over and above what the prevailing principles are looking for. We believe this is in the shape of things to come, and we are delighted to be one of the early adopters of these models. I will now hand over to Brian Gallagher, our Head of Investor Relations, to run through some current market themes.

設定的目標超出了現行原則所尋求的目標。我們相信這是未來的形式，我們很高興成為這些模型的早期採用者之一。我現在將交給我們的投資者關係主管布賴恩·加拉格爾 (Brian Gallagher) 來介紹當前的一些市場主題。

Thank you, Lieve. There are 3 quick things we wanted to cover before handing back to Hugo and some concluding remarks. On Slide 9, we pick out those years since 1990 when VLCC rates have been below P&L breakeven rates over the calendar year and observed the level of recycling during that year. On average, 5% of the VLCC fleet has departed when rates have been in such a trough for several quarters, although recent experience has been slightly lower than that level. But the message is clear, lower rates historically has led to more recycling.

謝謝你，利夫。在返回給 Hugo 和一些總結性評論之前，我們想快速介紹 3 件事情。在幻燈片 9 中，我們挑選出自 1990 年以來 VLCC 費率在日曆年內低於盈虧平衡率的年份，並觀察了當年的回收水平。平均而言，當費率連續幾個季度處於低谷時，5% 的 VLCC 船隊已經離開，儘管最近的經驗略低於該水平。但信息很明確，歷史上較低的利率導致了更多的回收。

We move now onto Slide 10. You can see that this is a purposely very busy slide but with some important illustrative examples attached to it. What we want to do here is highlight and provoke debate about the challenge that older tonnage faces. For the purposes of this slide, we define 3 tanker categories: one, a 15-year-old or older VLCC; secondly, a VLCC which is in so-called market, which is in the midrange and mid age; and finally, an Eco ship. It's a well-known fact that older tonnage consumed more, and we have found that investors often dismiss this.

我們現在轉到幻燈片 10。您可以看到這是一張特意設計的非常繁忙的幻燈片，但附有一些重要的說明性示例。我們在這裡想要做的是強調並引發關於舊噸位面臨的挑戰的辯論。出於本幻燈片的目的，我們定義了 3 種油輪類別：一種是 15 年或更老的 VLCC；其次，VLCC 屬於所謂的市場，處於中端和中年期；最後是一艘生態船。一個眾所周知的事實是，舊噸位消耗更多，我們發現投資者經常對此不屑一顧。

However, as Lieve expertly covered during her earlier remarks on emissions and the new financing regime that we're finding ourselves in, additional emissions coming from additional consumption is now gaining attention with shipping banks and other investors and this will add further pressure to this older tonnage. As I said, the illustrative example of the 3 VLCC tankers in front of you shows key variables that we are focusing on, which are reduced utilization that an older vessel will have. Put very simply, any vessel over 15 years of age will find it very difficult to be taken on time charter by oil majors or traders, which combined with higher costs not just from increased consumption in older engines, but also incorporating all costs, including dry dockings, which, of course, get more costly the older a vessel gets. So we can see that this will add further pressure and lead to a lower TCE.

然而，正如 Lieve 在她早些時候關於排放和我們發現自己所處的新融資制度的評論中所巧妙地指出的那樣，來自額外消費的額外排放現在正在引起航運銀行和其他投資者的關注，這將進一步增加這個較舊的壓力噸位。正如我所說，您面前的 3 艘 VLCC 油輪的說明性示例顯示了我們關注的關鍵變量，即舊船的利用率降低。簡而言之，任何船齡超過 15 年的船隻都會發現很難被石油巨頭或貿易商租用定期租船合同，這與更高的成本相結合，不僅是因為舊發動機的消耗增加，而且還包括所有成本，包括幹碼頭，當然，船隻越舊，成本就越高。所以我們可以看到，這將進一步增加壓力並導致更低的 TCE。

This lower return is magnified when the market conditions that have lower freight rates, as we currently have, that we will see this pressure seeing rates below OpEx costs. And that's the reason we want to focus on this is that this is not a sustainable period of trading for any tanker operator when you're having TCEs below your OpEx costs.

當運費較低的市場條件（正如我們目前所處的那樣）時，這種較低的回報會被放大，我們將看到這種壓力，因為運費低於運營支出成本。這就是我們要關注這一點的原因，因為當您的 TCE 低於您的 OpEx 成本時，對於任何油輪運營商來說，這都不是一個可持續的交易期。

I'll now move over on to Slide 11, and this is why this counts because you can see on Slide 11, there are around 80 VLCCs or 10% of the global fleet, which is already aged over 17.5 years or older, which will have to go through a special survey and almost certainly have to add a ballast water treatment system as part of that survey over the next 12 months or so, which coupled with the fact that on a wider basis, 25% of the world fleet of both VLCCs and Suezmaxes are already aged over 15 years of age.

我現在轉到幻燈片 11，這就是為什麼這很重要，因為您可以在幻燈片 11 上看到，大約有 80 艘 VLCC 或全球船隊的 10%，已經超過 17.5 年或更老，這將在接下來的 12 個月左右，必須進行一項特別調查，並且幾乎肯定必須增加壓載水處理系統作為該調查的一部分，再加上在更廣泛的基礎上，世界船隊的 25% VLCC 和 Suezmaxes 的船齡已經超過 15 年。

You can see that there are some significant challenges ahead for the owners of that older tonnage. And should freight rates remain under pressure for a sustained period that could begin being -- driving some profound change in terms of the vessel supply picture.

您可以看到，對於那些舊噸位的船東來說，面臨著一些重大挑戰。如果運費在可能開始的持續時間內保持壓力 - 推動船舶供應情況發生一些深刻的變化。

With that, I'll now pass over to the final couple of slides and some summary remarks from Hugo. Hugo, over to you.

說到這裡，我現在將轉到最後幾張幻燈片和 Hugo 的一些總結性評論。雨果，交給你了。

Thank you, Brian. Yesterday, we were delighted to announce we have agreed a 10-year contract extension for the 2 FSOs we operate in the Qatar oilfield called Al Shaheen, and we own those units jointly with our partner, International Seaways. This vindicates the high-quality service and operation we have had so far with 0 downtime since the start of the contract 10 years ago.

謝謝你，布萊恩。昨天，我們很高興地宣布，我們已同意將我們在卡塔爾 Al Shaheen 油田運營的 2 台 FSO 的合同延長 10 年，我們與我們的合作夥伴 International Seaways 共同擁有這些設備。這證明了我們自 10 年前合同開始以來一直提供的高質量服務和運營，停機時間為零。

This extension will mean that the 2 units will continue to operate on the same field until 2032. This provides Euronav with additional long-term visible cash flows. Indeed, these new contracts will generate for Euronav only more than $322 million, and the contract will start when those units are debt-free.

此次延期意味著這兩個單位將繼續在同一油田運營，直到 2032 年。這為 Euronav 提供了額外的長期可見現金流。事實上，這些新合同只會為 Euronav 帶來超過 3.22 億美元的收益，並且合同將在這些單位還清債務時開始。

Just as a reminder, these FSOs are not simply storage vessels. They are sophisticated units that convert platform fluids into marketable high-quality crude oil. This also demonstrates the capacity of Euronav to create value outside the traditional crude transportation segment.

提醒一下，這些 FSO 不僅僅是儲存容器。它們是將平台流體轉化為可銷售的優質原油的精密裝置。這也證明了 Euronav 在傳統原油運輸領域之外創造價值的能力。

Moving on to Slide 14 and to conclude, there is no change to our traffic lights. Demand recovery remains muted, especially with the increased recent COVID restrictions, and oil supply is tight because of the agreed OPEC+ cuts. But the lack of sustained ordering is a bright note as is the U.S. crude export picture, where over the past 10 years -- or 10 weeks, sorry, exports have averaged just below 3 million barrels per day, in line with levels seen this time last year.

轉到幻燈片 14 並得出結論，我們的紅綠燈沒有變化。需求復蘇依然乏力，尤其是最近 COVID 限制增加，石油供應因 OPEC+ 達成的減產協議而緊張。但缺乏持續的訂單是一個亮點，美國原油出口情況也是如此，過去 10 年——或者 10 週，對不起，出口量平均每天略低於 300 萬桶，與這次的水平一致去年。

The contract extension won this week on our FSO joint venture further strengthened our financial position with visible cash flows until 2032. Our balance sheet is something we can control, unlike many other elements with our macro market. Our strong financial position is constructed to withstand a sustained period of challenging freight rates. And to a certain extent, we understand at Euronav that these challenging periods are helpful to clean up the market with excess capacity.

本週我們在 FSO 合資企業贏得的合同延期進一步加強了我們的財務狀況，現金流可見到 2032 年。與宏觀市場的許多其他因素不同，我們的資產負債表是我們可以控制的。我們強大的財務狀況能夠承受持續的具有挑戰性的運費。在某種程度上，我們在 Euronav 了解到，這些充滿挑戰的時期有助於清理產能過剩的市場。

At the same time, we hope that this period will provide us with opportunities to continue to develop our platform. With that, I will pass it back to the operator to receive your questions. Thank you for your attention.

同時，我們希望這段時間能為我們提供繼續發展我們平台的機會。有了這個，我會把它傳回接線員以接收您的問題。感謝您的關注。

(Operator Instructions) And the first question comes from Chris Tsung with Webber Research & Advisory.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Webber Research & Advisory 的 Chris Tsung。

I wanted to just kind of ask about the 2 Suezmaxes that you chartered in for 2 years. In the press release, you guys said that it was to enhance strategic relationships. Can you perhaps expand on that a little bit? And also, are you able to share the rates of the time charter and if there's any profit sharing?

我想問一下你們租用了 2 年的 2 艘蘇伊士型油輪。在新聞稿中，你們說這是為了加強戰略關係。你能稍微擴展一下嗎？另外，你們能否分享定期租船的費率以及是否有任何利潤分享？

Yes, very good question. We took the ships from Trafigura. And I think that, as you know, the traders are very important players in our market. So we are happy to continue to deal with them, and obviously, it goes in both directions. We have chartered our VLCC to them in the past, and we will continue to explore further opportunities. So it doesn't go in one direction.

是的，非常好的問題。我們從 Trafigura 拿走了船。我認為，如您所知，交易員是我們市場中非常重要的參與者。所以我們很高興繼續與他們打交道，顯然，這是雙向的。我們過去曾將 VLCC 租給他們，我們將繼續探索更多機會。所以它不會朝一個方向發展。

They're obviously sitting on quite large volumes of crude oil. And in the challenging market, it's very important to have access to your cargoes because, in fact, you can waste a lot of money by sitting idle and not finding cargoes in those situations. And I think that at Euronav and certainly at the pool level, we are trying to minimize those things.

他們顯然坐擁大量原油。在充滿挑戰的市場中，獲取您的貨物非常重要，因為事實上，在這種情況下您閒置不找貨物可能會浪費很多錢。我認為，在 Euronav，當然在池級別，我們正在努力盡量減少這些事情。

As far as the rate is concerned, I think it was reported in the market. So I can tell you, it's 25,000. And in fact, it's 2 years plus 1-year option.

就利率而言，我認為它是在市場上報導的。所以我可以告訴你，它是 25,000。事實上，它是 2 年加上 1 年的選擇權。

There is no profit -- sorry, there's no profit sharing element on top of that.

沒有利潤——抱歉，除此之外沒有利潤分享元素。

Okay. All right. And I just want to switch over to the Oceania. I think you guys mentioned last quarter that you guys were purchasing about 20% above consumption to average down the cost of the fuel. Are you guys still employing -- that was like Phase 3 of your plan to kind of purchase volume discounts. Is that still going on? And what are the plans for the Oceania?

好的。好的。我只想切換到大洋洲。我想你們在上個季度提到你們購買了比消耗量高出約 20% 的燃料，以平均降低燃料成本。你們還在僱用嗎——這就像你們計劃的第 3 階段，以提供購買量折扣。那還在繼續嗎？大洋洲的計劃是什麼？

Yes, absolutely. I mean you know the story. So we bought it in '19 when the price was much higher. We benefit until roughly the end of February of having a cheap stock to feed our vessels. Then the oil price collapsed and took all the petroleum products price down with it. And at that time, we completely stopped using it until we saw the first light of recovery. And then we decide to do sort of a blending, which is purchasing LSFO from the market, but also taking it from our vessel at a rate which help us minimizing the negative mark-to-market.

是的，一點沒錯。我的意思是你知道這個故事。所以我們在 19 年購買了它，當時價格高得多。直到大約 2 月底，我們都受益於擁有廉價庫存來為我們的船隻提供燃料。然後油價暴跌，所有石油產品的價格也隨之下跌。那時，我們完全停止使用它，直到看到復甦的第一縷曙光。然後我們決定進行某種混合，即從市場上購買 LSFO，但也以有助於我們最大限度地減少按市值計價的負面影響的速度從我們的船上提取。

In other words, we are buying LSFO in the market in volume. So it's not 1,500, 2,000 tonnes at a time as we would do otherwise. We're buying 35,000 or 40,000 tonnes in one go. We benefit from a relatively big discount, and that discount is applied to minimize the mark-to-market. And you can see the evolution that, at the worst point, we were at minus $55 million. We didn't take an impairment because we said that we can manage the situation. And so through this program as well as an improvement of the LSFO pricing, we are now down to $15 million. And as a matter of fact, if I look at it today, it's only $9 million.

換句話說，我們在市場上大量購買 LSFO。所以它不是像我們否則那樣一次 1,500、2,000 噸。我們一次性購買了 35,000 或 40,000 噸。我們受益於相對較大的折扣，並且該折扣用於最小化按市值計價。你可以看到，在最糟糕的時候，我們的收入為負 5500 萬美元。我們沒有減損，因為我們說我們可以控制這種情況。因此，通過該計劃以及 LSFO 定價的改進，我們現在已降至 1500 萬美元。事實上，如果我今天看，它只有 900 萬美元。

So we are very hopeful that between now and the end of the year, whatever we have on board the vessel will be at market price. And obviously, then the volume can dramatically go down if we are at market price. And if not, then we will continue to operate under the current program that I just explained.

所以我們非常希望從現在到今年年底，我們船上的任何東西都將以市場價格出售。顯然，如果我們以市場價格計算，那麼交易量可能會急劇下降。如果沒有，那麼我們將繼續按照我剛才解釋的當前計劃運作。

And the next question comes from Randy Giveans with Jefferies LLC.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies LLC 的 Randy Giveans。

This is Chadd on for Randy. So you guys reported much better-than-expected quarter-to-date rates, well above the benchmark rates. Can you talk about what outdrove that performance? And what rates are you currently booking on a VLCC and a Suezmax kind of this week?

這是蘭迪的查德。所以你們報告的季度迄今利率好於預期，遠高於基準利率。你能談談是什麼超越了那個表現嗎？您目前在本週預訂 VLCC 和 Suezmax 的價格是多少？

To answer the first part of the question, I really believe that it's a matter of number of days where you're busy, i.e. your utilization. And as you know, we don't report utilization separately. So it's really blended into the TCE rate that we are publishing today. I cannot explain that by any other difference from the market.

要回答問題的第一部分，我真的認為這是您忙碌的天數的問題，即您的利用率。如您所知，我們不會單獨報告利用率。所以它真的融入了我們今天發布的 TCE 率。我無法用與市場的任何其他差異來解釋這一點。

As far as the VLCC market is concerned, it is quite spread depending on what you're doing. If you go from the Caribs and you go to China, it's going to be above 20s. If you're doing AG/China or AG/Europe, it's more going to be like between $12,000 and $15,000 a day. So obviously, we're trying to do more of the lucrative voyage, but you cannot always do or you cannot only do those type of voyages. So on average, the market must be between $15,000 and $20,000 for the time being. As far as the Suezmaxes are concerned, I'm afraid it's lower than that. So it's more between $8,000 and $12,000, so on average $10,000. And yes, it's very similar to what we said we have booked so far.

就 VLCC 市場而言，它的分佈非常廣泛，具體取決於您在做什麼。如果你從加勒比人去中國，那將超過 20 歲。如果你在做 AG/China 或 AG/Europe，那麼每天的收入會在 12,000 到 15,000 美元之間。很明顯，我們正在嘗試進行更多有利可圖的航行，但你不能總是這樣做，或者你不能只進行那些類型的航行。所以平均而言，市場暫時必須在15,000美元到20,000美元之間。就蘇伊士型油輪而言，恐怕要低一些。所以它在 8,000 美元到 12,000 美元之間，平均為 10,000 美元。是的，它與我們所說的到目前為止預訂的非常相似。

We are a little bit hopeful about the winter. So certainly, another normal winter season. But obviously, there will be more activity. That will also depend on the COVID restrictions. You've seen that most of European countries went back to lockdown. This was almost not the case in Asia. So from what we see from Asia, it's relatively positive news because there's no decrease in consumption. And we need to see what -- how it's going to play out in the States.

我們對冬天有點希望。當然，又是一個正常的冬季。但顯然，會有更多的活動。這也將取決於 COVID 限制。你已經看到大多數歐洲國家都回到了封鎖狀態。這在亞洲幾乎不是這樣。因此，從我們在亞洲看到的情況來看，這是一個相對積極的消息，因為消費沒有減少。我們需要看看——它將如何在美國發揮作用。

But if we were to have a normal winter where volumes will increase, then we believe that we would see a marginal increase into the rates. We're not upbeat and we don't believe that it's going to be extraordinary. But simply, by seasonal effect, it should improve from where it is today.

但如果我們有一個正常的冬季，銷量會增加，那麼我們相信我們會看到運價略有上升。我們並不樂觀，我們不相信它會非常出色。但簡單地說，受季節性影響，它應該比現在有所改善。

Perfect. Moving on, congrats on the FSO contract extension. Kind of based on our math, the new EBITDA contribution for your 50% is more than about $20 million per year for the 10 years. Now since that's clearly a noncore assets, do you have any thoughts on selling your portion of the JV or kind of the opposite and buying the other 50% from INSW?

完美的。繼續，祝賀 FSO 合同延期。基於我們的數學計算，您 50% 的新 EBITDA 貢獻在 10 年中每年超過 2000 萬美元。既然這顯然是一項非核心資產，您是否有任何想法出售您在合資企業中的部分或相反的部分並從 INSW 購買另外 50% 的股份？

I think that this contract gives us options, and it's certainly something that we will think about. It is noncore, but nevertheless, I think that our client is very happy with the service that we provide. So I think if we were looking at selling a part of it or selling the entire unit together with the International Seaways, I think that we would have to remain the operator, which is not a bad place to be.

我認為這份合同給了我們選擇權，這肯定是我們會考慮的事情。它是非核心的，但儘管如此，我認為我們的客戶對我們提供的服務非常滿意。所以我認為，如果我們考慮出售其中的一部分或將整個單位與國際航道一起出售，我認為我們必須保留運營商，這不是一個壞地方。

It's -- there's a lot of options on the table, but there is definitely no plan to do anything at this point in time. And let's not forget that it's 10 years in continuation to the current contract, which is not finished because it's only going to be finished in '22. So we have a little bit of time to think about it and make sure that we sell at the point in the market where we can get the best value for buck. And if we don't get that value, then we're better off keeping it.

它是 - 桌面上有很多選擇，但目前絕對沒有計劃做任何事情。別忘了，目前的合同還有 10 年的延續，該合同尚未完成，因為它只會在 22 年完成。所以我們有一點時間考慮一下，並確保我們在市場上能夠獲得最佳性價比的時候出售。如果我們沒有得到那個價值，那麼我們最好保留它。

And the next question comes from Chris Wetherbee with Citigroup.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Chris Wetherbee。

I wanted to touch on the ESG loan. I think it's kind of interesting in terms of the direction financing in the industry is moving. So maybe can you talk a little bit more in detail about sort of the targets that you guys can commit to going forward from an emission standards perspective? And then maybe a broader question about sort of how you see financing for the tanker industry moving over time. This is kind of a niche situation as it stands right now. How much more mainstream does this become? Sort of what does it do to sort of fleet growth for the industry over time? Do you think that has an impact?

我想談談 ESG 貸款。我認為就行業融資的方向而言，這很有趣。那麼也許你能更詳細地談談你們可以從排放標準的角度承諾推進的目標嗎？然後可能是一個更廣泛的問題，關於你如何看待油輪行業的融資隨著時間的推移而變化。就目前而言，這是一種利基情況。這會成為多少主流？隨著時間的推移，它對行業的機隊增長有何影響？你認為這有影響嗎？

Yes. It's very much a strategic question because we were one of the supporters. In other words, we helped drafting the clause for the precedent principle. And that's, well, the base or the starting point of the conversation. The precedent principles have taken what they believe will be what the IMO will impose as a trajectory between now and 2030.

是的。這在很大程度上是一個戰略問題，因為我們是支持者之一。換句話說，我們幫助起草了先例原則的條款。那就是對話的基礎或起點。先例原則採用了他們認為 IMO 將強加的內容作為從現在到 2030 年之間的軌跡。

Unfortunately, the IMO will only lay that egg probably in '22 or '23. So they had to take a guesstimate and they have designed the trajectory starting 2008 and calculating 40% reduction in CO2 on a ship-by-ship basis or on a fleet basis. So that's the trajectory that all the banks who are signatories and you know that this -- there is a big number of banks, and that number is growing. It's European banks, it's U.S. banks. It's also Asian banks, and we certainly hope to get more Asian banks on board.

不幸的是，IMO 可能只會在 22 年或 23 年才下這個蛋。因此，他們不得不進行猜測，他們設計了從 2008 年開始的軌跡，併計算出逐船或按船隊減少 40% 的二氧化碳排放量。所以這就是所有簽署銀行的軌跡，你知道這一點 - 有大量銀行，而且這個數字還在增長。是歐洲銀行，是美國銀行。也是亞洲銀行，我們當然希望有更多的亞洲銀行加入。

So the -- that answers already a little bit part of the second part of your question, which is how will it affect the industry? I think that the more banks sign this -- those principles or are part of that club, the more it will be applicable for everyone in shipping. And let's not forget that the idea is to be transparent, to calculate so that you know what sort of emission you do. And then for the banks to select the clients who are the best in class because they, in turn, have committed to publish the emissions of their entire portfolio, not on a name-by-name basis.

所以 - 這已經回答了你問題第二部分的一部分，即它將如何影響行業？我認為越多的銀行簽署這個——這些原則或成為該俱樂部的一部分，它就越適用於航運業的每個人。我們不要忘記，這個想法是透明的，要進行計算，以便您知道自己進行了哪種排放。然後讓銀行選擇同類中最好的客戶，因為他們反過來承諾公佈其整個投資組合的排放量，而不是逐個名稱地公佈。

So they want to look good about the kind of assets that they finance. So it's relatively interesting. It's definitely a starting point. I'm sure that the principles will evolve all the time. But at the moment, it's more a question of reporting and then looking good for the investors of the banks themselves. And there is no way around it. I mean if there is one bank who is involved in a financing, and most financing in shipping are done as club deals or syndicate, then there will be a clause forcing you to publish that.

因此，他們希望讓自己投資的資產看起來不錯。所以比較有意思。這絕對是一個起點。我相信這些原則會一直在發展。但目前，更多的是報告問題，然後讓銀行投資者自己看起來不錯。沒有辦法解決它。我的意思是，如果有一家銀行參與融資，並且大多數航運融資是以俱樂部交易或辛迪加的形式進行的，那麼就會有一個條款迫使你公佈。

As far as we are concerned, because we have a relatively young fleet and because we have invested in a number of initiatives, and that includes digital tools to help decrease the consumption and, therefore, the emissions. It is about a big program of using the most efficient silicon paint when we go to dry dock and these kind of initiatives. We thought that we should be a little bit more ambitious. And so the trajectory that we have agreed with the banks is more ambitious than the one on the precedent principles. And according to our calculation, we're going to get there. I wouldn't say it's easy, but we're definitely going to get there.

就我們而言，因為我們擁有一支相對年輕的車隊，並且因為我們已經投資於多項舉措，其中包括有助於減少消耗並因此減少排放的數字工具。這是關於在我們去幹船塢時使用最高效的矽塗料的大型計劃以及此類舉措。我們認為我們應該更有野心一點。因此，我們與銀行商定的軌跡比基於先例原則的軌跡更為雄心勃勃。根據我們的計算，我們將到達那裡。我不會說這很容易，但我們一定會到達那裡。

The last one that I want to mention, you heard Lieve saying, if you don't move the target, it's only 5 basis points. So it's, honestly, not much. It's very little, but you need to start somewhere. And if you wait for all those principles or all those regulations to be perfect, then you don't do anything and you drag your feet, which is definitely not the case at Euronav. So we prefer to start with this kind of initiative or with this kind of, I would say, minor incentive and nevertheless, demonstrate that we are ambitious. And then hopefully, moving forward, it will be more generous for what I would like to call the good guys or at least in terms of the environment, the good guys, and it will be more of a penalty for the bad guys, a combination of maybe loans that will be priced higher as well as not finding banks to finance your assets because they are outside those trajectories that I just discussed.

最後一個我想提的，你聽Lieve說，如果你不移動目標，它只有5個基點。所以，老實說，並不多。它很少，但你需要從某個地方開始。如果您等待所有這些原則或所有這些法規變得完美，那麼您什麼都不做，您會拖拖拉拉，這在 Euronav 絕對不是這種情況。因此，我們更願意從這種倡議開始，或者從這種，我想說，輕微的激勵措施開始，儘管如此，還是要證明我們雄心勃勃。然後希望，向前邁進，對於我想稱之為好人的人，或者至少在環境方面，好人，它會更加慷慨，這將是對壞人的更多懲罰，兩者結合可能會定價更高的貸款以及找不到銀行為您的資產融資，因為它們超出了我剛剛討論的那些軌跡。

Sure. Okay. That's helpful. And I guess that sort of ties into the outlook for fleet growth for, I think, yourself as well as the industry. I guess there's an argument to be made if the financing is not as readily available for older tonnage over time, it could either choke off that and potentially drive capacity out of the market. That way, it could also potentially incentivize people to look for newer tonnage or potentially newbuild tonnage because of the sort of Eco standards of new vessels relative to secondhand vessels.

當然。好的。這很有幫助。我想這與您自己以及整個行業的機隊增長前景有關。我想，如果隨著時間的推移，舊噸位的融資不再那麼容易獲得，那麼就會有爭論，它可能會扼殺這一點，並有可能將產能趕出市場。這樣一來，由於新船相對於二手船的生態標準，它也可能會激勵人們尋找更新的噸位或潛在的新建噸位。

So how do you think about sort of the -- there's probably a couple of different angles that this could go. Are there unintended consequences of sort of moving in this direction where you could theoretically stimulate more newbuild orders than you might necessarily want for the industry to maintain some form of balance going forward? Or is that reading too much into it, and you should just assume that it just ultimately begins to sort of starve out capital for older, less efficient tonnage?

那麼你如何看待 - 這可能有幾個不同的角度。朝這個方向發展是否會產生意想不到的後果，理論上你可以刺激更多的新造訂單，而不是你可能希望行業在未來保持某種形式的平衡？或者是對它的解讀太多了，你應該只是假設它最終開始有點餓死老舊、效率較低的噸位的資金？

It's definitely a complex -- a very complex situation because if you buy a conventional ship today, you know for sure that if you don't retrofit, or if you don't change anything to the vessel, 20 years down the road, it's probably going to be the wrong asset. And maybe it's going to be the wrong assets 10 years down the road.

這絕對是一個複雜的 - 一個非常複雜的情況，因為如果你今天購買一艘傳統船舶，你肯定知道如果你不進行改造，或者如果你不對船舶進行任何改動，那麼 20 年後，它是可能會成為錯誤的資產。也許 10 年後它會成為錯誤的資產。

So what people have been looking into is a dual-fuelled LNG. But unfortunately, they cost a lot more. They cost probably 15% more than the conventional vessels. And there is a second question behind that because LNG is a fossil fuel. Yes, it emits less CO2, but there is methane leakage, both onboard the vessel but also in the supply chain. And the methane is far more decremental for the environment than the CO2. And so if you combine that, there's a number of studies that are saying it's marginally better, it is worse, it's a lot better. So there's a lot of confusion.

所以人們一直在研究的是雙燃料液化天然氣。但不幸的是，它們的成本要高得多。它們的成本可能比傳統船隻高出 15%。這背後還有第二個問題，因為液化天然氣是一種化石燃料。是的，它排放的二氧化碳較少，但在船上和供應鏈中都存在甲烷洩漏。甲烷對環境的影響遠大於二氧化碳。所以如果你把它結合起來，有很多研究表明它稍微好一點，更糟，好很多。所以有很多困惑。

I think that as long as there is that sort of confusion out there, people are going to be reluctant to dip their toes into one direction, which is, okay, we can continue buying conventional vessels, hoping that we will be able to retrofit them at a later stage or we need to move to a sort of a long transition because if it show them itself worth it into dual fuel LNG vessels.

我認為只要存在那種混亂，人們就不會願意將腳趾伸向一個方向，那就是，好吧，我們可以繼續購買傳統船隻，希望我們能夠對它們進行改造在以後的階段，或者我們需要進行一種長期的過渡，因為如果它表明它們本身值得進入雙燃料液化天然氣船。

And you can clearly see that this is a debate that probably every single tanker ship owner is having at the moment, maybe in other segments as well because the order book is very thin. And I think that will continue to be the case despite the fact that the cost of them has dropped dramatically, and we're back to -- almost back to the levels that we showed in the previous cycle. So normally, it should attract a number of people. There are people sniffing around. But when you look at the firm order or the real order, you can't believe it, it's still very thin. And obviously, that's very good.

你可以清楚地看到，這是一場可能每個油輪船東目前都在進行的辯論，也許在其他領域也是如此，因為訂單非常少。我認為，儘管它們的成本已經大幅下降，但我們又回到了——幾乎回到了我們在上一個週期中展示的水平，這種情況將繼續存在。所以通常情況下，它應該會吸引很多人。周圍有人在嗅。但是當你看到實單或者真單的時候，你不敢相信，還是很薄。顯然，這非常好。

I think that we may see a few more orders, and we will see if they are double -- dual-fuelled, sorry, or if they are still conventional vessels once you see vessels being scrapped? Okay, people are going to be very reluctant to order ships in this current market if we don't see any signs of scrapping because the market is oversupplied today. And despite the age profile of the world fleet, you need to have the proof in the pudding before eating.

我想我們可能會看到更多的訂單，我們會看看它們是否是雙燃料的，對不起，或者一旦你看到船隻被拆解，它們是否仍然是傳統的船隻？好吧，如果我們看不到任何報廢跡象，人們將非常不願意在當前市場上訂購船舶，因為今天市場供過於求。儘管世界艦隊的年齡分佈，你需要在吃之前在布丁中證明。

And the next question comes from Jon Chappell with Evercore.

下一個問題來自 Evercore 的 Jon Chappell。

Hugo, I wanted to ask about the FSOs a different way, not selling them. But debt-free by July '22. First of all, how much debt is left on there? And what's the pace of the cash outflows as you repay that and get to debt-free?

雨果，我想以不同的方式詢問 FSO，而不是出售它們。但到 22 年 7 月就沒有債務了。首先，那裡還剩下多少債務？當你償還債務並擺脫債務時，現金流出的速度是多少？

And then second of all, with the 10-year contract with a good counterparty, what are your plans and availability to draw down existing -- additional financing on the FSO to maybe help you with the core business expansion?

其次，通過與良好交易對手簽訂的 10 年合同，您有什麼計劃和可用性來提取現有的 - FSO 的額外融資，以幫助您進行核心業務擴展？

So as I -- I will answer the second part of your question. In the meantime, I'm sure that Lieve can dig for the numbers of where we are in terms of debt today and what is the repayment. So the second part is -- well, I will answer in exactly the same way. I mean we literally signed this contract the day before yesterday, over the weekend, in fact, because they are open on Sunday. And even though we've been working on this renewal for a long time, we were expecting it to come a little bit later because after all, we are still 2 years ahead of the maturity of the contract.

所以我——我將回答你問題的第二部分。與此同時，我相信 Lieve 可以挖掘出我們今天的債務數量以及還款額。所以第二部分是——好吧，我將以完全相同的方式回答。我的意思是，我們實際上是在前天，在周末簽署了這份合同，事實上，因為它們在周日開放。儘管我們已經為這次續約努力了很長時間，但我們預計它會晚一點到來，因為畢竟我們距離合同到期還有 2 年的時間。

So we will explore all and every kind of options, and we have put them on the table. I mean there's -- we can sell our share to INSW if they so wish. We can buy them if we find the price attractive. We can both sell to another party. We can refinance and keep the assets and part of the cash flows. So there's a number of options. What is important for you to know is that, indeed, the ship will be debt-free at the end of the current contract, so in July 2022 for both units. So it will be free cash flow, and there will be possibilities to refinance it. Let's see where we are at that point in time, or maybe there's an opportunity that will arise before then.

所以我們將探索所有和每一種選擇，我們已經把它們擺在桌面上。我的意思是，如果他們願意，我們可以將我們的股份出售給 INSW。如果我們發現價格有吸引力，我們可以購買它們。我們都可以賣給另一方。我們可以再融資並保留資產和部分現金流。所以有很多選擇。重要的是你要知道，事實上，這艘船在當前合同結束時將是無債務的，所以在 2022 年 7 月兩個單位。所以它將是自由現金流，並且有可能對其進行再融資。讓我們看看我們在那個時間點的位置，或者在那之前可能會出現一個機會。

But I think that when we are at sort of a crossroad like we are in our sector where we need to think about what is the right ship of the future. We need to write about -- to think about what is the right fuel of the future. Maybe we want to be part of the consortium that is looking into the production of those fuels or these kind of things. The fact that we have visible cash flows, and you will admit with me, it's not very frequent that we have this amount of cash flow and this visibility, is certainly an asset that we will be able to use in the future.

但我認為，當我們處於十字路口時，就像我們所在的行業一樣，我們需要考慮什麼是未來的正確船舶。我們需要寫——思考什麼是未來的正確燃料。也許我們想成為正在研究生產這些燃料或這類東西的財團的一部分。事實上，我們有可見的現金流，你會和我一起承認，我們擁有這麼多現金流和這種可見性的情況並不常見，這肯定是我們將來能夠使用的資產。

And indeed, let me add, Jon, the level of debt we have on the 2 FSOs currently on Euronav is for each FSO, we have about now end of Q3 $50 million outstanding. And as mentioned by Hugo, we will be debt-free Q2 -- Q3 2022. So we will further reduce each year a level of $25 million, more or less, in order of magnitude.

事實上，讓我補充一下，喬恩，我們目前在 Euronav 上的 2 個 FSO 的債務水平是針對每個 FSO 的，我們在第三季度末大約有 5000 萬美元的未償還債務。正如 Hugo 所提到的，我們將在 2022 年第二季度 - 第三季度實現無債務。因此，我們將進一步減少每年 2500 萬美元的水平，或多或少，按數量級排序。

Great. And then, Hugo, I think we talk about this every quarter, but things have become a bit more maybe uncertain in the world but attractive in the asset values. These charter-ins aren't your typical method of adding leverage, especially given your liquidity. So how are you balancing this drop in asset values and the potential opportunity that Euronav has done in prior downturns versus maybe some of the uncertainty out there, you do it a little bit more of a charter-in method?

偉大的。然後，雨果，我想我們每個季度都會討論這個問題，但世界上的事情可能變得更加不確定，但在資產價值方面具有吸引力。這些包租不是您增加槓桿作用的典型方法，尤其是考慮到您的流動性。那麼，您如何平衡資產價值的下降和 Euronav 在之前的經濟低迷時期所做的潛在機會與可能存在的一些不確定性之間的關係，您更像是一種租船方法？

It's a very good question. It's one that we are asking ourselves almost every day. And despite the depth of the market, the fact that there are more than 800 VLCCs and over close to 600 Suezmax, you don't find deals as easily as you wish. And on top of that, as you know, our share price is not doing very well, and we have never issued one share that was destroying shareholder value. And so at this point in time, we're more buyers of that share, than user of the shares to do a deal.

這是一個很好的問題。這是我們幾乎每天都在問自己的問題。儘管市場很深，但事實上有 800 多艘 VLCC 和近 600 艘蘇伊士型油輪，您並不像您希望的那樣容易找到交易。最重要的是，如你所知，我們的股價表現不佳，而且我們從未發行過破壞股東價值的股票。因此，在這個時間點，我們更多地是該股票的買家，而不是股票的用戶來進行交易。

As I just mentioned, building a new vessel is out of the question because we don't know yet what the technology will emerge. And so we had this opportunity of chartering 2 super modern vessels. They were built less than a year ago. They are super Eco type, they have scrubbers if you want to use them. And so we thought it was a very good deal. It was very important for us to have some sort of longevity. So that's a 2-year plus 1-year option. And we think that they will create value for Euronav.

正如我剛才提到的，建造一艘新船是不可能的，因為我們還不知道會出現什麼技術。因此，我們有機會租用 2 艘超現代船隻。它們是不到一年前建造的。它們是超級環保型，如果你想使用它們，它們有洗滌器。所以我們認為這是一筆非常划算的交易。擁有某種長壽對我們來說非常重要。所以這是一個 2 年加 1 年的選擇。我們認為它們將為 Euronav 創造價值。

And that's probably outside, I would say, the natural way of where you find Euronav, but I think that we are living through exceptional times. We continue to be frustrated with the share, and that explains why we have decided to take them on time charter-in rather than trying to buy something, given where we are today.

這可能是在外面，我會說，你找到 Euronav 的自然方式，但我認為我們正在經歷特殊時期。我們仍然對份額感到沮喪，這解釋了為什麼我們決定以定期租船方式租用他們，而不是嘗試購買一些東西，因為我們今天的情況。

And the next question comes from Amit Mehrotra of Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Amit Mehrotra。

This is Kevin on for Amit. I had a question on the U.S. election and the implications on the crude tanker market. It's increasingly looking like a Biden win, a Republican Senate. But I guess we'll see. Obviously, there's like no real tax implications, but with respect to implications for U.S. production, exports, is there anything notable you would call out?

這是阿米特的凱文。我對美國大選及其對原油油輪市場的影響有疑問。它越來越像拜登獲勝，共和黨參議院。但我想我們會看到的。顯然，沒有真正的稅收影響，但關於對美國生產、出口的影響，你有什麼值得注意的嗎？

I was afraid you would ask a political questions, it's the one that I hate the most, to be honest with you. I think very few people have a clue, and I think we have to be patient until you guys have a president, but admittedly, it's almost like -- it has an impact for the rest of the world.

我擔心你會問一個政治問題，老實說，這是我最討厭的問題。我認為很少有人知道，我認為我們必須耐心等待，直到你們有一位總統，但不可否認，這幾乎就像——它對世界其他地區產生了影響。

The way we see it is if Biden was going to win the election and if you would have a majority in the Senate and in the chamber, I think that they will try to be a little bit more forceful on the path to decarbonization. I think that the blue wave that was predicted is not really the one that we are seeing. Even if he has a majority, it's going to be a very, very thin majority. And given that fact, I think that we're not going to have a revolution. I think we're going to have an evolution. I think that he will be very mindful of not hitting the economy. That would be his first priority.

我們的看法是，如果拜登要贏得選舉，如果你在參議院和眾議院獲得多數席位，我認為他們會在去碳化的道路上變得更有力一些。我認為預測的藍色浪潮並不是我們真正看到的浪潮。即使他擁有多數席位，也將是非常非常微弱的多數。鑑於這一事實，我認為我們不會發生革命。我認為我們將有一個進化。我認為他會非常注意不要打擊經濟。那將是他的首要任務。

I mean, quite frankly, when you look around the world, this COVID crisis has impacted pretty much everyone, including the U.S. And so we are not expecting something radical in terms of a clean energy program. It's certainly not something as big as what he announced when he was a candidate. I think the reality is he's going to hit if he is the one to become the new president. So -- but we're not too worried about it because if it's evolutionary rather than revolutionary, I think that we are always in a good place to adapt to that.

我的意思是，坦率地說，當你環顧世界時，這場 COVID 危機幾乎影響了所有人，包括美國。因此，我們並不期待清潔能源計劃會出現什麼激進的事情。肯定沒有他競選時宣布的那麼大。我認為現實情況是，如果他成為新總統，他就會受到打擊。所以 - 但我們並不太擔心它，因為如果它是進化的而不是革命性的，我認為我們總是處於適應它的好位置。

The second aspect, which seems to be a little bit clearer if he wins is the Iranian situation and how soon will he want to reenter the deal because that may have an impact on, obviously, Iranian oil production, and to a certain extent, I would say a lesser extent, the Iranian fleet. But that's not a fleet that is in very good condition so we are not too mindful about it.

第二個方面，如果他贏了，似乎更清楚一點，那就是伊朗的局勢，以及他想多長時間重新加入協議，因為這顯然可能對伊朗的石油生產產生影響，在某種程度上，我在較小程度上，伊朗艦隊。但這不是一支狀況很好的艦隊，所以我們並不太在意。

Got you. Got you. And then kind of switching focus. On the share buyback, what is the total prospective number of shares you can buy? I think you've bought back around 5%. I'm just trying to understand what more you can buy and if, in fact, you plan to continue doing so if the equity value remains persistently low.

明白了明白了然後有點切換焦點。關於股票回購，您可以購買的股票總數是多少？我想你已經回購了大約 5%。我只是想了解您還可以購買什麼，事實上，如果股權價值持續處於低位，您是否打算繼續這樣做。

Yes. So one thing at a time, I would say. So we have announced what we plan to do next and then we will reevaluate and see if we need to do more. For the time being, the question was only how do we split 80% of our earnings that we have committed to return to the investors, and we have decided to go 50-50 like we did the last quarter. And we were very happy about what we did the last quarter, by the way.

是的。所以一次一件事，我會說。所以我們已經宣布了我們下一步的計劃，然後我們將重新評估並看看我們是否需要做更多的事情。目前，問題只是我們如何將我們承諾返還給投資者的 80% 的收益分配，我們決定像上個季度一樣分配 50-50。順便說一句，我們對上個季度所做的事情感到非常高興。

The -- we can buy up to 10% of our capital, but that is only until the next AGM, which is May. If we want to do more before that, we can call an EGM, so an Extraordinary General Meeting. And usually, if you do that, you get the necessary votes to go on with such a program. So I would not be too focused on the authorization that we have today because if we are more ambitious than this authorization then we ask for more. As I said, to my recollection, we have never received a negative answer on that.

- 我們最多可以購買 10% 的資本，但這只能到下一次 AGM，即 5 月。如果我們想在此之前做更多事情，我們可以召開臨時股東大會，即特別股東大會。通常，如果你這樣做，你就會獲得必要的選票來繼續進行這樣的計劃。所以我不會太關注我們今天獲得的授權，因為如果我們比這個授權更有野心，那麼我們會要求更多。正如我所說，據我所知，我們從未收到過關於此的否定答复。

And the next question comes from Ben Nolan with Stifel.

下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Ben Nolan。

I wanted to dig back into the Suezmax deal, the charter-ins a little bit, Hugo. I'm curious how you would categorize this in terms of is this something where you really think of it from a strategic relationship kind of a thing? Or were you intentionally sort of looking to go out and take advantage of the current weakness in the markets. So a 2-year deal, we think, over time, this is going to be better and we'll just find somebody who maybe is a good strategic fit, but is -- we want to be long Suezmaxes effectively, and that was the primary motivation.

雨果，我想再深入探討一下蘇伊士型油輪交易和租船合同。我很好奇你會如何根據這是你真正從戰略關係中想到的東西來歸類它？或者您是否有意尋求走出去並利用當前市場的疲軟。所以我們認為，一份為期 2 年的協議，隨著時間的推移，這會變得更好，我們會找到一個可能在戰略上很合適的人，但是——我們想有效地做多蘇伊士型油輪，那就是主要動機。

Well, it's a combination, but I would say that if we were not convinced that it was a good deal from an economic perspective, then we can forget about the strategy because our strategy is to make money, first and foremost. So that was the priority. I think that when we look at those vessels and to a certain extent, if you take the slide -- in the slide deck, if you take the Slide 10, that we've used for a completely different purpose, which was we explained how people are looking at scrapping -- no, not scrapping.

嗯，這是一個組合，但我要說的是，如果我們不相信從經濟角度來看這是一筆好交易，那麼我們就可以忘掉這個戰略，因為我們的戰略首先是賺錢。所以這是當務之急。我認為，當我們觀察這些船隻時，在某種程度上，如果你在幻燈片甲板上，如果你使用 Slide 10，我們將用於完全不同的目的，我們解釋瞭如何人們正在考慮報廢——不，不是報廢。

Where you can see the difference between an Eco VLCC and obviously, the same applies for an Eco Suezmax compared to the market or compared to an older vessel. And you can see that even though we are paying $25,000 and the market is definitely not there. You need the market at probably $17,000 or $18,000 in order to have those ships already breakeven. And that's simply by the fact that they are consuming far less than whatever is represented in the market. So they are very, very good vessels.

你可以看到 Eco VLCC 之間的區別，顯然，與市場或舊船相比，這同樣適用於 Eco Suezmax。你可以看到，即使我們支付了 25,000 美元，但市場肯定不存在。您需要市場價格可能達到 17,000 美元或 18,000 美元才能使這些船舶達到盈虧平衡。這僅僅是因為他們的消費遠低於市場上所代表的任何東西。所以它們是非常非常好的容器。

The strategic part, I would say, is twofold. First, we have sold a number of Suezmaxes so we have decreased our exposure to that market. It's a market that we like. And in fact, normally or in previous cycles, the Suezmax market is outperforming the VLCC on a relative basis, of course, in the downturn. So you want to keep exposure -- a certain degree of exposure to that.

我想說，戰略部分是雙重的。首先，我們已經出售了一些蘇伊士型油輪，因此我們減少了對該市場的敞口。這是我們喜歡的市場。事實上，通常或在之前的周期中，蘇伊士型油輪市場在相對基礎上優於 VLCC，當然，在經濟低迷時期。所以你想保持曝光——一定程度的曝光。

And then the second part of the sort of strategic point of view is that we want to develop as many relationships with people who have access to the cargoes as possible. And obviously, it's an easier dialogue to have when you have to speak to them on a regular basis because you're doing business with them. So it's not rocket science. But it definitely played a role into whether we're going to charter those ships from that owner or some other ships from maybe owners who are not cargo owners.

然後，這種戰略觀點的第二部分是，我們希望與能夠接觸貨物的人建立盡可能多的關係。顯然，當您因為與他們做生意而必須定期與他們交談時，對話會更容易。所以這不是火箭科學。但這肯定會影響我們是否要從該所有者那裡租用這些船，或者從可能不是貨主的所有者那裡租用其他一些船。

Okay. That's helpful. And then the other thing that was mentioned in the release was that you guys had pulled, I think, 9 dry-dockings forward. Can you maybe talk through what that -- what maybe now your profile is for dry docks in 2021 with those having been taken out?

好的。這很有幫助。然後在新聞稿中提到的另一件事是，我認為你們已經向前推進了 9 個乾塢。你能不能談談那是什麼——現在你的個人資料是關於 2021 年干船塢的，而那些已經被取消了？

Yes. So you usually have a 6-month window to perform your dry dock and then you receive a certificate for 5 years and 2.5 years. And obviously, if you do them a little bit early, you are likely to receive extension. So you're not really losing -- the fact that you're doing them a little bit early does not mean that you are losing the 6 months on the back end because the real cutoff date is more the anniversary of the ship.

是的。因此，您通常有 6 個月的時間窗口來執行幹船塢，然後您會收到 5 年和 2.5 年的證書。顯然，如果你早一點做，你很可能會得到延期。所以你並不是真的輸了——你做的有點早這一事實並不意味著你在後端失去了 6 個月，因為真正的截止日期更多的是船舶的周年紀念日。

So you're not losing a lot by doing that. But obviously, we are always very mindful of what type of market there is out there when we perform dry dock because when you are in dry dock, you are not earning any money. It's a little bit the story of those guys installing or retrofitting scrubbers in a market that was absolutely fantastic. Well, here, it's exactly the opposite. Market is (expletive), sorry for my French. So we take advantage to take as many ships as possible in the docks because, quite frankly, none of us, none of the operators is good at predicting the rate. So you could have, certainly for an event that you have not foreseen, a market that is reaping in 2 months down the road. So you want to do that -- when you know that the market is not very good, you want to do as many ships as possible.

所以你這樣做不會損失很多。但顯然，當我們進行幹船塢時，我們總是非常注意那裡的市場類型，因為當你在幹船塢時，你不會賺到任何錢。這有點像那些人在一個非常棒的市場上安裝或改造洗滌器的故事。好吧，在這裡，情況恰恰相反。市場是（咒罵），對不起我的法語。所以我們利用碼頭盡可能多的船隻，因為坦率地說，我們當中沒有一個人，沒有一個運營商擅長預測費率。因此，對於您沒有預見到的事件，您當然可以擁有一個在未來 2 個月內收穫的市場。所以你想這樣做——當你知道市場不太好時，你想做盡可能多的船。

But I wouldn't say it's moving the needle, from your perspective as an analyst saying, "Okay, that ship is 5 years old, that ship is 10 years old, and so I need to forecast that amount of money in those number of days." It's just moving by a few months. We had to take a few ships before year-end. We had to take a few ships after the year-end. We have decided to take them all as quickly as possible simply because now there is one certainty, it's a good moment from a market perspective not to be out there in the market.

但我不會說它正在改變方向，從你作為分析師的角度來看，“好吧，那艘船已經使用了 5 年，那艘船已經使用了 10 年，所以我需要預測那些數量的資金天。”它只是移動了幾個月。我們不得不在年底之前拿走幾艘船。年底後我們不得不拿幾艘船。我們決定盡快全部採用，因為現在有一個確定性，從市場的角度來看，這是一個不要出現在市場上的好時機。

Okay. So the impact should be maybe shifting from first quarter to fourth quarter rather than over the course of the rest of the next year?

好的。那麼影響可能應該從第一季度轉移到第四季度，而不是在明年餘下的時間裡？

That's correct. I mean maybe there were 1 or 2 ships due for dry dock in the second quarter. As I said, it's a 6-month window. So if you take the ship that will go on dry dock in December, for instance, maybe some of them were scheduled for May but we have decided to take them in December.

這是正確的。我的意思是，第二季度可能有 1 或 2 艘船要停靠幹船塢。正如我所說，這是一個 6 個月的窗口期。因此，如果您乘坐將在 12 月停靠幹船塢的船，例如，其中一些原定於 5 月停靠，但我們已決定在 12 月停靠。

And the next question comes from Omar Nokta with Clarksons.

下一個問題來自 Omar Nokta 和 Clarksons。

I just wanted to talk about maybe just strategy from like a big picture perspective. Earlier in your comments, you mentioned the shipping industry overall is at a crossroads, and I know that was in relation to propulsion. You got the $1.2 billion of liquidity. And as you said in the past, you're not in a rush and are happy to sit back, evaluate things and jump on any opportunities as they arise.

我只是想從大局的角度談談也許只是戰略。在您之前的評論中，您提到整個航運業正處於十字路口，我知道這與推進有關。你得到了 12 億美元的流動資金。正如您過去所說，您並不著急，並且樂於坐下來評估事物並抓住出現的任何機會。

When we think of these opportunities, from my perspective, the world is wide open, I'd say, and you've got the flexibility to pick and choose what to do. As you think of Euronav, can you maybe give some color on what maybe you would be interested in investing in? You mentioned the FSO contract highlighting Euronav's ability to generate cash flow outside of crude transportation. And Euronav, over its history, has been acquisitive, all generally within large crude tankers. So when we think about, say, the next step, when we think about the next acquisition, is that still in crude tankers?

當我們想到這些機會時，從我的角度來看，世界是敞開的，我會說，你可以靈活地選擇做什麼。正如您對 Euronav 的看法，您能否給出一些您可能有興趣投資的顏色？你提到 FSO 合同強調了 Euronav 在原油運輸之外產生現金流的能力。而 Euronav，在其歷史上，一直在收購，通常都是在大型原油油輪中。因此，當我們考慮下一步時，當我們考慮下一次收購時，是否仍在原油油輪中？

Yes. I think that we're not going to deviate from our core business. So if you're talking about a big deal, it would definitely be on the crude side and on the large tanker side. So at the moment, we continue to believe that this is going to be a great market. It's going to continue to be cyclical, but it's going to be a great market for the foreseeable future.

是的。我認為我們不會偏離我們的核心業務。因此，如果您談論的是一筆大交易，那肯定是在原油方面和大型油輪方面。所以目前，我們仍然相信這將是一個偉大的市場。它將繼續具有周期性，但在可預見的未來，它將成為一個巨大的市場。

And as I mentioned, I believe it was last call, we're not afraid of peak oil. As a matter of fact, we may even be quite excited about peak oil because I think that the market will further consolidate. We hope that we'll be part of that consolidation. And as a leader in a market that is declining very gradually, very smoothly, I mean, all the predictions in the world are telling you that we're going to continue using oil even 50 years down the road, obviously, not at the same rate as what we are doing today. I think that we are quite excited about being a leading player in that declining market. And when you look at other industries who have had a smooth decline, the champions of those industries are usually making it big time.

正如我提到的，我相信這是最後的決定，我們不害怕石油峰值。事實上，我們甚至可能對石油峰值感到非常興奮，因為我認為市場將進一步整合。我們希望我們成為整合的一部分。作為一個正在逐漸、非常平穩地衰退的市場的領導者，我的意思是，世界上所有的預測都在告訴你，我們將在未來 50 年內繼續使用石油，顯然，不是同時與我們今天所做的一樣。我認為我們很高興能成為這個衰退市場的領先者。當你看看其他平穩下滑的行業時，這些行業的冠軍通常會大賺一筆。

So big acquisitions, definitely, the same core business as we have today. But there may be other opportunities that we see, and that is mainly what we would call planting seed. So we believe that technology is going to play a big role. At the moment, we are investing quite a bit of money internally and we are developing software. But it's an open platform where you can plug a number of different software, whether it's a prediction about port congestion or better weather forecast, better way of running the engines. We installed sensors on board the vessels.

如此大的收購，肯定與我們今天的核心業務相同。但我們可能會看到其他機會，這主要是我們所謂的播種。所以我們相信技術將發揮重要作用。目前，我們在內部投入了大量資金並正在開發軟件。但它是一個開放平台，你可以在其中插入許多不同的軟件，無論是預測港口擁堵還是更好的天氣預報，更好的引擎運行方式。我們在船上安裝了傳感器。

So all of that is very interesting and I think will play a major role in the future. But you're not talking about acquiring a software company or something like that, you're talking about making the right investment so that you remain ahead of the curve. And always, those investments should pay off by reduction of the fuel that you consume or something equivalent to that and as an effect, will reduce our emissions, which is where people are focusing at the moment it seems.

所以所有這些都非常有趣，我認為未來會發揮重要作用。但你不是在談論收購一家軟件公司或類似的東西，你是在談論進行正確的投資，這樣你才能保持領先地位。並且總是，這些投資應該通過減少您消耗的燃料或類似的東西來獲得回報，並且作為一種效果，將減少我們的排放，這似乎是人們目前關注的焦點。

Yes. That's helpful. I just wanted to -- maybe just a follow-up touching back on the FSOs. It's a bit -- it was a bit of a surprise, I guess, for us to see this contract renewal or extension. And was there maybe a mechanism or a timing clause that caused these charters to get negotiated now? Or -- and that's why they -- you've announced it? Or is this simply in discussions with Northern Oil, now it was time to start really thinking about the next 10 years and you came to an agreement with it? So just simply asking, was it were we talking about some sort of an extension date?

是的。這很有幫助。我只是想——也許只是關於 FSO 的後續行動。這有點——我想，我們看到這份合同續籤或延期有點意外。是否存在導致現在談判這些章程的機製或時間條款？或者——這就是為什麼他們——你已經宣布了？或者這只是與 Northern Oil 的討論，現在是時候開始真正考慮未來 10 年了，你們達成了協議？所以只是簡單地問，我們是在談論某種延期日期嗎？

Well, for us, I would say that the later it would have been potentially the better. But obviously, we have very professional clients that we are happy to serve. I would say that Total is the real operator in the field. It's a joint venture with QP, but the guys on the ground are Total, and they know very well that if they need to find an alternative solution to the 2 FSO that they need to think about it 2 or 3 years before the end of the current contract. Otherwise, they would be held hostage to a situation that is not going to be pleasant.

好吧，對我們來說，我會說越晚可能越好。但顯然，我們有非常專業的客戶，我們很樂意為他們服務。我會說 Total 是該領域的真正運營商。這是與 QP 的合資企業，但當地的人是道達爾，他們非常清楚，如果他們需要找到 2 FSO 的替代解決方案，他們需要在 2 或 3 年結束前考慮。當前合同。否則，他們將被困在一種不會令人愉快的情況下。

And I think that's the main trigger. The main trigger was the client desire to tackle an issue so that they would still have opportunities to look at other alternative solutions. We are very pleased that they found that our solution at the price that we negotiate was the best alternative. And it's quite fascinating because those ships were deployed -- the contract was signed in 2008 and we had a conversion in 2 years. They were deployed in 2010. And now we have a contract until 2032. So that's 22 years of undisrupted services or, hopefully, undisrupted services, but there's certainly no CapEx.

我認為這是主要的觸發因素。主要的觸發因素是客戶希望解決一個問題，以便他們仍然有機會尋找其他替代解決方案。我們很高興他們發現我們以談判價格提供的解決方案是最佳選擇。這非常令人著迷，因為部署了這些船隻——合同於 2008 年簽署，我們在 2 年內進行了改裝。它們於 2010 年部署。現在我們的合同到 2032 年為止。所以這是 22 年的不間斷服務，或者希望是不間斷的服務，但肯定沒有資本支出。

In other words, no dry dock plan. And I think we can be very proud of that because it had required, at the time of the conversion, a little bit of vision of spending maybe more money that some other players would have spent, but that is paying off right now. You don't need to reinvest any money and you can continue to operate this vessel very safely in the same field with all the equipment in a working function.

換句話說，沒有乾船塢計劃。而且我認為我們可以為此感到非常自豪，因為在轉換時它需要一些願景，即花費一些其他玩家可能會花費更多的錢，但現在正在得到回報。您不需要再投資任何資金，您可以繼續在同一領域非常安全地操作這艘船，所有設備都處於工作狀態。

That's great. So -- and just to confirm, you're saying there's no -- basically no off-hire, there's no CapEx in between this contract and the new one, it just goes straight into the next?

那太棒了。所以 - 只是為了確認，你是說沒有 - 基本上沒有停租，在這份合同和新合同之間沒有資本支出，它直接進入下一份？

That's right. Absolutely, it's in direct continuation. We don't need to take the ship to dry docks. There will be obviously regular surveys and underwater surveys and all the rest of it. But it's not going to be interrupting the service. And the service has been exceptional. I mean if you look at the offshore industry, generally speaking, nobody gets 100% uptime. And so far, that's what -- knock on wood, that's what we have had, and we plan to continue having that.

這是正確的。當然，它是直接延續的。我們不需要把船開到干船塢。顯然會有定期調查和水下調查以及所有其他調查。但它不會中斷服務。而且服務非常出色。我的意思是，如果你看看離岸行業，一般來說，沒有人能獲得 100% 的正常運行時間。到目前為止，這就是 - 敲木頭，這就是我們所擁有的，我們計劃繼續擁有它。

And the next question comes from Eirik Haavaldsen with Pareto Securities.

下一個問題來自 Pareto Securities 的 Eirik Haavaldsen。

I just wanted to -- you touched upon in your remarks that the vintage asset values have held up rather well. And we've been a little bit surprised to see that. Can you maybe explain a little bit why that is?

我只是想 - 你在你的評論中提到，古董資產價值保持得相當好。看到這一點我們有點驚訝。你能解釋一下這是為什麼嗎？

And second, you have a number of, particularly, Suezmaxes in that 15- to 20-year-old bracket. Would it be too late to start selling them now or continue selling them? Is that -- or is that something still high on your agenda?

其次，在 15 至 20 年的船齡中，有許多蘇伊士型油輪，尤其是蘇伊士型油輪。現在開始銷售或繼續銷售是否為時已晚？那是 - 還是您議程上仍然很重要的事情？

Yes. So thank you for your question and thank you for being on the call. The -- there are maybe one explanation and God knows that we don't know -- maybe the true answer is that we don't know, but we suspect that people are looking at those old assets thinking they are taking less risk than buying a 10-year-old vessel. And the reason why they may be taking less risk is simply because the natural end of life of those vessels is going to be in 2, 3, maybe 4 years down the road. And as you look at the regulatory framework and, certainly, the pressure that we are having on carbon emissions, those ships will end their life at a point where commercially they're going to be very difficult to market.

是的。感謝您提出問題，也感謝您接聽電話。 - 也許有一種解釋，上帝知道我們不知道 - 也許真正的答案是我們不知道，但我們懷疑人們正在看那些舊資產，認為他們承擔的風險比購買資產要小一艘 10 年船齡的船隻。他們之所以願意承擔較少的風險，僅僅是因為這些船隻的自然壽命將在未來 2、3 年甚至 4 年內結束。當你審視監管框架，當然還有我們在碳排放方面面臨的壓力時，這些船舶將在商業上很難推向市場的時候結束它們的生命。

If you take a 10-year-old or maybe an 8-year old, which is not an Eco ship, so it is still burning quite a lot of fuel and you're sort of stuck with it until its end of life or natural end of life, you may find yourself on the wrong side of your bet at a later stage. And so that is, as far as we are concerned, it's one of the explanations that they'll be fine, and we wish those investors good luck. But it might not be a bad bet. Obviously, you need to market those units to the right people, to the people who can take vessels that are more than 15 years of age, and you know that the market structure is not -- the majority of the people don't like those vessels. But if you're a niche player, then you may enjoy it.

如果你帶一個 10 歲或 8 歲的孩子，這不是一艘生態船，所以它仍在燃燒大量燃料，你會一直堅持到它的生命結束或自然在生命的盡頭，您可能會發現自己在以後的賭注中處於錯誤的一邊。因此，就我們而言，這是他們會沒事的解釋之一，我們希望這些投資者好運。但這可能不是一個壞賭注。顯然，您需要將這些設備推銷給合適的人，推銷給可以使用船齡超過 15 年的船隻的人，而且您知道市場結構並非如此——大多數人不喜歡那些船隻。但如果你是小眾玩家，那麼你可能會喜歡它。

The second part of your question relates to Suezmax. And I have a big smile on my face because I have the impression people always want more, they want more, they want more. I mean we sold 4 Suezmax since the beginning of the year. We sold 1 very recently, admittedly, 1 that we had in joint venture, but nevertheless, we sold 1. And we will continue to explore the market for opportunities. If we think that it's the right price for an asset that we are happy to get rid of, then we'll definitely execute on it. And if not, we'll be patient. So the focus is not so much to have a policy on those things. The focus is always to try to create value for the company and, obviously, for its shareholders.

你問題的第二部分與蘇伊士型有關。我臉上掛著燦爛的笑容，因為我的印像是人們總是想要更多，他們想要更多，他們想要更多。我的意思是自今年年初以來我們售出了 4 艘 Suezmax。誠然，我們最近賣掉了 1 個，這是我們在合資企業中擁有的 1 個，但儘管如此，我們還是賣了 1 個。我們將繼續探索市場尋找機會。如果我們認為這是我們樂於擺脫的資產的合適價格，那麼我們肯定會執行它。如果沒有，我們會耐心等待。因此，重點不是針對這些事情制定政策。重點始終是努力為公司創造價值，當然，也為股東創造價值。

Yes. No, I agree. But just -- and then one follow-up, if I may. On -- I mean when you then look at opportunities that are coming across over the next, say, 6 to 12 months, with your share price, where it is right now, do you think -- is that keeping you or refraining from potentially investing? Do you think that is -- well, yes, as simple as that.

是的。不，我同意。但是，如果可以的話，只是 - 然後是後續行動。關於——我的意思是，當你在接下來的 6 到 12 個月內以你的股價來看待機會時，你認為現在的價格是——讓你或避免潛在的投資？你認為那是——嗯，是的，就這麼簡單。

No, I'm not sure it's refraining us from investing because investment is too full at Euronav. There is investment which has reached renewal. And when you're selling a number of ships, then obviously, you need to reinvest that capital. We did so at the beginning of the year and I'd say we can do more, especially because values right now are attractive. So that's one side where you don't involve the equity or you don't involve the equity too much.

不，我不確定它是否會阻止我們投資，因為 Euronav 的投資太滿了。有已經達到更新的投資。當你出售多艘船時，很明顯，你需要將這筆資金再投資。我們在年初就這樣做了，我想說我們可以做得更多，尤其是因為現在的價值觀很有吸引力。所以這是你不涉及股權或者你不會過多涉及股權的一方面。

The other side is if you are offering us a generic deal and people are not accepting our share at LNG, so they are only accepting the price as what they see on the screen, that's going to be a lot more difficult for us. You will remember that when we did generate -- we were trading slightly above NAV, those guys were trading at 40% or 50% discount to NAV. That's possible. So we can trade at a discount to NAV. And if the company we acquire trade at a further discount to NAV, then you're still creating value for your shareholders. But if you ask us to pay with our shares at the screen price for an asset at what I would call NAV, I don't think that's going to be very popular within Euronav.

另一方面是，如果你向我們提供通用交易，而人們不接受我們在液化天然氣中的份額，那麼他們只接受他們在屏幕上看到的價格，這對我們來說會更加困難。你會記得，當我們確實產生時——我們的交易價格略高於資產淨值，那些人的交易價格比資產淨值低 40% 或 50%。這是可能的。所以我們可以以低於資產淨值的價格進行交易。如果我們收購的公司以低於資產淨值的價格進行交易，那麼您仍在為股東創造價值。但是，如果您要求我們以我稱之為資產淨值的屏幕價格用我們的股票支付資產，我認為這在 Euronav 中不會很受歡迎。

All right. And I'm always going to be on your call.

好的。我會隨時接聽你的電話。

Very good. And hopefully asking questions.

非常好。並希望提出問題。

And the next question comes from Geoffrey Scott with Scott Asset Management.

下一個問題來自斯科特資產管理公司的杰弗里斯科特。

Given the COVID disruptions, has there been any flexibility from the classification societies on the timing of special surveys?

鑑於 COVID 中斷，船級社在特別檢驗的時間安排上是否有任何靈活性？

That's an excellent question. Thank you so much for asking it. And the reason why it's an excellent question is because the answer is yes. And it may explain why we have not yet seen a big volume of ships being taken to the recycling yards or to the scrap yards as some people call them.

這是一個很好的問題。非常感謝你提出這個問題。這是一個很好的問題，因為答案是肯定的。這或許可以解釋為什麼我們還沒有看到大量船舶被送往回收場或一些人所說的廢料場。

So yes, definitely, there was a big shutdown and then major delays in mostly the Chinese yards, who -- some of them specialize in providing a dry dock survey service. And so yes, there was definitely flexibility simply because, otherwise, people would have had to stop their ships. That flexibility is not given blindly. So the classification society will be very careful before they extend certificate. And they would certainly want to inspect a number of things on board the ships even remotely.

所以，是的，肯定的是，大多數中國船廠出現了大規模停工，然後出現了重大延誤，其中一些專門提供幹船塢測量服務。所以是的，絕對有靈活性，因為否則，人們將不得不停止他們的船隻。這種靈活性不是盲目給予的。所以船級社在延長證書之前會非常小心。他們肯定會想要遠程檢查船上的一些東西。

But definitely -- and we were in that can. That's also maybe why we have concentrated so many ships in such a short period. So we did benefit from extension from classification societies. And hopefully, that explains why we haven't seen yet a flurry of ships being taken to the recycling yard because they received the allowance to continue trading.

但絕對 - 我們在那個罐子裡。這也許也是我們在如此短的時間內集中了這麼多船隻的原因。所以我們確實受益於船級社的擴展。希望這可以解釋為什麼我們還沒有看到大量船隻被送往回收場，因為它們獲得了繼續交易的許可。

You put out an excellent chart on the -- it's the potential catalyst for -- from 186 surveys next 2 years, and it's broken down by quarter. It was on, I guess, Page 25 of your September presentation. In Q2, you list 20 ships that were over 20 years. And in Q3, you list 5 additional ships that were over 20 years. How many of those 7 and how many of those 5 actually went in for special surveys since they didn't go for demolition?

您根據未來 2 年的 186 項調查得出了一個很好的圖表——它是潛在的催化劑，並且按季度細分。我猜它在您 9 月份的演示文稿的第 25 頁上。在第二季度，您列出了 20 艘超過 20 年的船舶。在第三季度，您列出了另外 5 艘超過 20 年的船隻。這 7 人中有多少人和 5 人中有多少人因為沒有進行拆遷而實際進行了專項調查？

Let me try to jump in, Hugo, on this.

雨果，讓我試著參與進來。

Yes, go ahead.

好，去吧。

This is Brian Gallagher, Head of IR. We haven't -- I don't have the direct numbers there, but we -- that I think, with the exception of 2 of those ships, they're in storage contracts. So they're not part of the world trading fleet. So they have to go through their own particular survey to make sure they still can engage in that sort of activity.

我是 IR 主管 Brian Gallagher。我們沒有——我沒有那裡的直接數字，但我們——我認為，除了其中 2 艘船外，它們都在存儲合同中。所以他們不屬於世界貿易船隊。因此，他們必須通過自己的特定調查來確保他們仍然可以從事此類活動。

So I know it sometimes looks a bit strange to have vessels of this sort of age but they're not ships that we encounter in terms of that trading. Because obviously, when you're a trading ship, you have to have regular vetting and regular inspections, which means these, obviously, ships where they're doing storage contracts are not involved in. So I'm not aware of the exact detail of how many of those have gone through their own specific survey.

所以我知道擁有這種年齡的船隻有時看起來有點奇怪，但它們不是我們在貿易方面遇到的船隻。因為顯然，當你是一艘貿易船時，你必須定期審查和定期檢查，這意味著這些，顯然，他們正在簽訂存儲合同的船舶不參與其中。所以我不知道具體細節其中有多少已經通過了自己的特定調查。

But our view would be and certainly from the trading platforms like Tankers International, as we're expecting maybe a swap out to start occurring soon of some of this storage tonnage being replaced with some of the slightly younger vintages leaving the world trading fleet. From our perspective, the effect is the same, you're getting the world trading fleet actually reducing in size. But I can maybe take this offline and I'll come back to you at a later date with some more specifics when we get details on that specific question.

但我們的觀點肯定是來自像 Tankers International 這樣的交易平台，因為我們預計可能很快就會開始發生交換，其中一些存儲噸位將被一些離開世界貿易船隊的稍微年輕的年份所取代。從我們的角度來看，效果是一樣的，世界貿易船隊的規模實際上正在縮小。但我也許可以將其脫機，稍後當我們獲得有關該特定問題的詳細信息時，我會返回給您一些更具體的信息。

And the next question comes from Quirijn Mulder with ING.

下一個問題來自 ING 的 Quirijn Mulder。

Quirijn Mulder from ING. Sorry, 3 questions. Can you tell me something about the situation with regard to the offshore storage? Do you have still the contracts in, let me say, in the coming months? Or is that all gone?

來自 ING 的 Quirijn Mulder。對不起，3個問題。你能告訴我一些關於離岸存儲的情況嗎？在接下來的幾個月裡，你還有合同嗎？還是一切都消失了？

Second question is about your -- you speak about the medium-term improvement. What do you expect? Is that maybe second half 2021 when you see some improvement, let me say, assuming that the OPEC+, let me say, moves forward to September 2021.

第二個問題是關於你的 - 你談到中期改進。你能指望什麼？假設 OPEC+ 提前到 2021 年 9 月，你是否會在 2021 年下半年看到一些改善？

And then -- yes, and I will pose my question -- final question later on.

然後——是的，我將在稍後提出我的問題——最後一個問題。

So that's good. You know the rules. It's only 2 questions, but we'll make an exception. So the first one is storage. So as far as Euronav is concerned, we still have 2 VLCCs that need to finish performing a 6-month contract. And I think that's a little bit the case for the rest in the industry where we are very, very far off the peak. Brian can help me, but I think there is maybe another 20 VLCCs which need to finish their storage contract -- temporary storage contract. And of those, a number of older ladies that we would definitely not expect to see coming back to the market. But Brian can give you more specific numbers in a minute.

所以這很好。你知道規則。只有 2 個問題，但我們會破例。所以第一個是存儲。所以就 Euronav 而言，我們還有 2 艘 VLCC 需要完成 6 個月的合同。而且我認為對於行業中的其他人來說，情況有點如此，我們離高峰非常非常遠。 Brian 可以幫助我，但我認為可能還有 20 艘 VLCC 需要完成他們的存儲合同——臨時存儲合同。其中，我們絕對不希望看到一些年長的女士重返市場。但是 Brian 可以在一分鐘內為您提供更具體的數字。

As far as the -- our prediction about when the market will come back, well, you know us very well, and you know that we are no fools. So we will say we don't know. It depends very much on what the second wave of COVID impact will have and how long it will last. And it will also, and maybe more importantly depend on how many ships are being scrapped during this downturn in the market. So if you give me those 2 elements, then I will give you a perfect answer.

就我們對市場何時回歸的預測而言，你非常了解我們，而且你知道我們不是傻子。所以我們會說我們不知道。這在很大程度上取決於第二波 COVID 影響將產生什麼以及將持續多長時間。而且這也將而且可能更重要地取決於在市場低迷期間有多少船被拆解。所以如果你給我這兩個要素，那麼我會給你一個完美的答案。

In terms of the Hugo's answers, I mean, yes, we think there's about maybe 30 VLCCs that have got to come out of storage, and that's been very stubborn over the last 2 or 3 months. But we think the number on Aframax and Suezmax has fallen a long way from the peak we saw in May and June, where we saw 70 and 80 of those vessels being taken up for storage. That's down to about 15 or 20 now, we think, which is going to come back. So still a bit more to go. There's more of an overhang, which is -- than anything else in the floating storage element.

就 Hugo 的回答而言，我的意思是，是的，我們認為大約有 30 艘 VLCC 必須出庫，而且在過去 2 或 3 個月裡這種情況一直非常頑固。但我們認為，Aframax 和 Suezmax 的數量與我們在 5 月和 6 月看到的峰值相比已經下降了很長的路要走，當時我們看到其中 70 艘和 80 艘船被存放。我們認為，現在已經下降到大約 15 或 20，這將會恢復。所以還有一點要走。有更多的懸垂，這是 - 比浮動存儲元素中的任何其他東西都要多。

Okay. And my final question is about the Iranian ships. So let me say, the political question here is if Joe Biden wins, then you might expect some extra flows of oil from that country, and that will not take a little fine in my view. But so what's the situation with regard to the Iranian ships? Are they still, let me say, used for storage or, let me say, illegal stay into Egypt and other areas to put some oil there? Is that -- and how many vessels are, in your view, idle and cannot be used anyway?

好的。我的最後一個問題是關於伊朗船隻的。所以讓我說，這裡的政治問題是，如果喬·拜登獲勝，那麼你可能會期望從那個國家流出一些額外的石油，我認為這不會受到一點罰款。那麼伊朗船隻的情況如何呢？它們是否仍然，讓我說，用於儲存，或者，讓我說，非法停留在埃及和其他地區以在那裡儲存一些石油？那是——在您看來，有多少船隻處於閒置狀態且無法使用？

Well, I think that the start of the answer should be, when would we expect -- if Joe Biden is elected, when would we expecting him to reenter the deal with the Iranians. And I think that we have to be realistic here. If we were him, and God knows that we're not going to give him any advice, it would not -- it would probably not be the top of our agenda, so is not going to be a top priority. Secondly, we know that by leaving the deal, the Iranians have continued to do their research on the nuclear programs. And so they will need themselves to agree to reenter the deal and to disclose everything that they have done in the meantime.

好吧，我認為答案的開始應該是，我們預計什麼時候——如果喬·拜登當選，我們預計他什麼時候會重新與伊朗人達成協議。我認為我們必須在這裡現實一點。如果我們是他，上帝知道我們不會給他任何建議，那不會——這可能不會成為我們議程的首要任務，所以不會成為首要任務。其次，我們知道，通過退出協議，伊朗人繼續對核計劃進行研究。因此，他們需要自己同意重新進入交易並披露他們在此期間所做的一切。

So I don't think that you are looking at a situation where Joe Biden gets confirmed tomorrow or maybe today and next Monday or maybe on the 1st of January when he's sworn in he's saying, "Well, my top priority is to deal -- is to find a deal with the Iranians," because that's not possible, which is, in a way, very good, maybe not for the Iranians, but as far as our market is concerned, because it's likely to take several months, if not a year or 2. And at that time, the situation that we are going through today, certainly, with the COVID restriction having impact on oil demand is going to be completely different.

所以我不認為你看到的情況是，喬·拜登明天或今天、下週一或 1 月 1 日宣誓就職，他說，“好吧，我的首要任務是處理——是與伊朗人達成協議，”因為這是不可能的，這在某種程度上非常好，也許對伊朗人來說不是，但就我們的市場而言，因為這可能需要幾個月的時間，如果不是的話一年或兩年。那時，我們今天所經歷的情況，當然，COVID 限制對石油需求的影響將完全不同。

Well, as far as the fleet is concerned, I didn't -- yes. Sorry, Brian?

好吧，就艦隊而言，我沒有——是的。對不起，布賴恩？

No, carry on. Carry on.

不，繼續。繼續。

Yes. So as far as the fleet is concerned, I have the impression it's maybe the Groundhog Day, this movie where every morning, you wake up and it's the same day that starts again. We were in exactly the same situation when the Obama administration lifted the sanctions or struck a deal with the 6 nations, and everybody was worried about that. And in fact, it's a fleet that has aged, that's the first point. It's the fleet that has shrunk, so it's no longer 40 VLCC. I think they are down to 32 or something like that. It is a fleet that part of it will continue to be used as storage and the other ones will necessitate a very heavy dry dock because when you keep a ship standstill, believe me, you're deteriorating your assets at a very, very fast speed.

是的。所以就艦隊而言，我的印象可能是土撥鼠日，這部電影每天早上醒來，又是同一天。奧巴馬政府解除制裁或與6國達成協議時，我們的處境完全一樣，大家都很擔心。事實上，這是一支已經老化的艦隊，這是第一點。是船隊縮水了，所以不再是40艘VLCC了。我認為他們下降到 32 或類似的東西。這是一支艦隊，其中一部分將繼續用作存儲，而其他艦隊將需要一個非常沉重的干船塢，因為當你讓一艘船停滯不前時，相信我，你的資產正在以非常非常快的速度惡化.

So all in all, we're not too worried about those ships coming back and putting pressure because it's additional supply, it's not going to happen overnight. And quite frankly, we don't believe that there will be a deal very, very soon after if Mr. Biden -- Vice President Biden becomes the new president.

所以總而言之，我們並不太擔心那些船隻回來並施加壓力，因為這是額外的供應，這不會在一夜之間發生。坦率地說，如果拜登先生——副總統拜登成為新總統，我們認為不會很快達成協議。

One other final point, which I think is often overlooked is that this isn't a one-way trade either. If the Iranian -- there isn't just Iranian ships if there's a wider transaction that's agreed will come back into the marketplace and start stealing cargoes. If there's a wider deal to be done, then there'll be Iranian barrels on the marketplace as well. And historically, it's been Iranian ships that have taken those Iranian barrels. So whilst there may be some squeezing out, I think this is often an overplayed situation that it's focused on. That's also important to remember, I think.

我認為經常被忽視的最後一點是，這也不是單向交易。如果伊朗 - 如果達成更廣泛的交易，那麼不僅僅是伊朗船隻會回到市場並開始竊取貨物。如果要達成更廣泛的協議，那麼市場上也會有伊朗桶。從歷史上看，是伊朗船隻拿走了那些伊朗桶。因此，雖然可能會有一些擠壓，但我認為這通常是它所關注的一種誇大的情況。我認為，記住這一點也很重要。

And the next question is a follow-up from Chadd on for Randy Giveans at Jefferies LLC.

下一個問題是查德對 Jefferies LLC 的蘭迪吉文斯的跟進。

It's Randy Giveans back on. Yes, just 1 quick follow-up. Any updated status on the TI Europe? I think the last time we talked that was still on a relatively short-term storage contract but I think that was expiring here in October. So any updates around that?

蘭迪·吉文斯回來了。是的，只需 1 次快速跟進。 TI 歐洲的任何更新狀態？我認為我們上次討論的內容仍然是相對短期的存儲合同，但我認為該合同將於 10 月在這裡到期。那麼有什麼更新嗎？

Yes, very good point. Maybe we should have mentioned it in the press release that those are considered small deals that we do here and there. We have also chartered out 2 Suezmax. But that ship got extended for another 6 months at the same rate. So we are very pleased about it. And yes, we do also the small stuff here and there on the sort of time charter market. We may not be as vocal as the others, but we keep an eye on that. And when we find good deals, we execute on them.

是的，非常好的觀點。也許我們應該在新聞稿中提到，這些被認為是我們到處做的小交易。我們還包租了 2 艘 Suezmax。但是那艘船以同樣的速度又延長了 6 個月。所以我們對此感到非常高興。是的，我們也在定期租船市場上到處做小事。我們可能不像其他人那樣直言不諱，但我們會密切關注這一點。當我們找到好的交易時，我們就會執行它們。

And that concludes the question-and-answer session as well as today's call. Thank you so much for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines.

問答環節和今天的電話會議到此結束。非常感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開線路。