Clean Energy Fuels Corp (CLNE) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello and welcome everyone joining today's Clean Energy Fuels fourth quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

It is now my pleasure to turn the meeting over to Chief Financial Officer, Robert Vreeland. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator. Earlier this afternoon, Clean Energy released financial results for the fourth quarter and year ending December 31, 2025. If you did not receive the release, it is available on the Investor Relations section of the company's website where the call is also being webcast. There will be a replay available on the website for 30 days.

Before we begin, we'd like to remind you that some of the information contained in the news release and on this conference call contains forward-looking statements that involves risk, uncertainties, and assumptions that are difficult to predict. Such forward-looking statements are not a guarantee of performance, and the company's actual results could differ materially from those contained in such statements. Several factors that could cause or contribute to such differences are described in detail in the risk factors section of Clean Energy's Form 10-K being filed today.

These forward-looking statements speak only as the date of this release. The company undertakes no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements or supply new information regarding the circumstances after the date of this release.

The company's non-GAAP EPS and adjusted EBITDA will be reviewed on this call and exclude certain expenses that the company's management does not believe are indicative of the company's core business operating results. Non-GAAP financial measures should be considered.

In addition to results prepared in accordance with GAAP, and should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to GAAP results, the directly comparable GAAP information, reasons why management uses non-GAAP information, a definition of non-GAAP EPS and adjusted EBITDA, and a reconciliation between these non-GAAP and GAAP figures is provided in the company's press release, which has been furnished to the SEC on Form 8-K today.

With that, I will turn the call over to our President and Chief Executive Officer, Andrew Littlefair.

Thank you, Bob. I'm pleased to report that we closed the fourth quarter in the year with strong results. Q4 marked another period of solid execution across our business with continued strength in our fueling operations and exciting progress in our upstream RNG production platform. For the full year 2025, our performance exceeded the high end of our guidance range reflecting the resilience of our business model and the value of our diversified customer base.

During the fourth quarter we also took an important balance sheet action by repaying $65 million of debt. This reduction in leverage lowers our future interest expense while maintaining ample cash to fund our growth initiatives. Speaking of growth initiatives, our upstream RNG business achieved two very significant milestones in the last few months.

As many of our South Fork Dairy project in Texas has been a long journey journey for our team and for our dairy partner, Frank Brand. As you may recall, three years ago, the facility suffered a fire that set back the farmer's operation and our project schedule. But the resilience of our team and the commitment from the dairy kept this project moving forward.

In the fourth quarter, we completed construction and brought South Fork online. When it entered service, it became the largest operating RNG project in our portfolio and one of the largest RNG dairy digesters in the country. And I'm pleased to report that even since the project's completion, Frank has added to his herd count, and we're considering expanding our production facilities.

Another reason this is such a great milestone is that this is a 100% Clean Energy constructed project and we control all RNG operations, so the financial results are fully consolidated in our financial statements and not part of our JVs. We were able to leverage our many years of experience in engineering and construction and oversee a project that was completed on time and on budget. So hats off to our talented Clean Energy team.

But South Fork isn't our only major recent accomplishment. I'm so excited to announce we have begun injecting gas in our East Valley Dairy project, and I know the largest RNG project in our portfolio. This project is part of our JV with BP. And processes manure from over 37,000 milking cows. Final project completion is on track for this spring.

In the span of just three months we brought online two of the largest dairy RNG projects in the country, and these additions bring our total number of operating projects to eight with an additional three projects in construction through our partnership with Mass Energy Works. I will remind you that all of this low carbon fuel from these projects. Will find its way into Clean Energy fueling infrastructure.

Our work is far from done. It takes time for new sites to ramp up and optimize production as is typical in the industry, but this is a major milestone for Clean Energy as we continue to execute against our dairy RNG production plan. We now have scale and clear line of sight to growing volumes in 2026 and beyond. It's never a dull moment in the RNG policy world, but 2026 has begun with encouraging signals across the major regulatory programs that affect our business.

RNG is a domestically produced waste-based biofuel with compelling environmental and economic benefits for our feedstock partners, whether at landfills, dairy farms, or other sources, many of which are located in rural communities. And for commercial vehicle fleets, RNG provides a practical, low costs, low emissions alternative to diesel that is commercially available today.

RNG offers this win-win solution while utilizing the existing network of natural gas pipeline infrastructure here in the US. This positive economic and environmental impact that RNG has on such diverse geographic and and industry markets makes it easier to advocate for policies, recognize the full value of RNG and support sustainable industry growth.

And we feel good about the current policy backdrop. A few weeks ago, the California Air Resources Board released Q3 2025 LCFS data, which showed the first net deficit since 2021, driven by CARB's program changes to accelerate emission reductions. This is a constructive development for LCFS fundamentals going forward. Regarding D3 RINs, we expect EPA to continue acknowledging the strong growth trajectory of RNG production and its critical role in meeting federal renewable fuel targets.

The 45Z clean fuel production credit rulemaking is progressing. Like the rest of the industry, we are awaiting the updated 45Z-GREET model. We remain optimistic that Treasury and the Department of Energy will recognize the avoided methane emissions and deeply negative life cycle emissions of dairy RNG as directed by Congress and reinforced throughout recent rule-making documents.

And my last comment regarding policy issues is regarding the announcement of EPA a few weeks ago that the administration is receiving the endangerment finding under the Clean Air Act. We believe this is good because this action removes any lingering potential that there is or will be a mandate for fleets to buy one and only one technology.

We hear repeatedly from operators that they continue to have a desire for a cleaner alternative than diesel for their fleets, and RNG provides that affordably and conveniently today. Collectively, these dynamics support the economic value of RNG and reinforce the importance of our integrated RNG strategy. Turning to our downstream operations, our fuel distribution business delivered another solid quarter. Volumes across our transit, refuse, and trucking customers grew, reflecting long-standing relationships and the essential nature of the services they provide.

The strength and success of RNG as the premier clean transportation fuel was demonstrated by agreements that we've signed over the last several months with the likes of waste giant WM which extended our partnership to provide services for 85 of their stations to keep their fleet of 8,000 refuse trucks fueled with RNG.

And the cities of Scottsdale, Phoenix, Washington DC, Nashville, Arlington, Virginia, and even Fort Smith, Arkansas awarded Clean Energy the opportunity to flip their CNG to RNG, build stations, maintain stations, or provide their airport shuttle operations with RNG. Heavy duty truck adoption of the Cummins X15N engine was a little slower in 2025 than we anticipated, but the fundamentals are improving.

Challenging freight market dynamics forced many fleets to delay not only alternative fuel decisions, but overall truck purchases of any type. Some of those headwinds have begun to ease, and in its full year on the road, the X15N demonstrated excellent performance with similar power, torque, and drivability to diesel for those first customers to test the drive demo truck and purchase the beginnings of a fleet of trucks equipped with a new engine.

As we talk to fleets, the message continues to resonate. RNG is the best available solution today for fleets looking to lower emissions while using a reliable fuel while reducing operating costs and achieving a lower total cost of ownership than diesel.

The engine technology works. The infrastructure is built, and the fuel is widely available at a lower cost than diesel. We are currently working with a number of third-party carrier customers which are actively using their RNG operated X15 trucks as a sales tool to attract those hundreds of shipper clients that are looking to address their Scope 3 emissions goals. We see good momentum for heavy duty adoption and believe that will continue throughout 2026.

Before turning the call over to Bob, I want to provide a few high level comments on our 2026 outlook. We expect continued growth in RNG volumes, both the third-party supplied RNG we deliver through our stations and the RNG we produce at our dairy RNG facilities. Our overall results are expected to improve over 2025 with a range of adjusted EBITDA of $70 million to $75 million.

Bob will share more of the details, but our plan reflects moderate growth, volume growth in line with gradual adoption of trucks utilizing the X15N, some extensions of multi-year major customer fueling contracts, a constructive view of environmental credit prices, significant progress in financial improvements at our dairy RNG production facilities, and a concerted effort at driving down operating costs.

We are pursuing growth across our fully integrated RNG model while evaluating opportunities to optimize costs and streamline our operations. We're scaling our own production of negative emissions dairy RNG while supporting customer adoption of low emissions, low cost RNG fuel across the US and Canada. Clean Energy is well positioned for 2026 and beyond.

And with that I'll hand the call over to Bob.

Thank you, Andrew and good afternoon, everyone. We finished 2025 mostly in line with our expectations. Our GAAP loss for the year of $222 million was slightly higher than expected, principally from non-cash interest charges in the fourth quarter associated with our paydown of debt and the expiration of our delayed draw loan. Adjusted the EBITDA for 2025 was $67.6 million, which exceeded the top end of our guidance of $65 million.

And again, as I've mentioned on our previous calls this year, please remember that the alternative fuel tax credit expired at the end of 2024, so the results of 2025 do not include any meaningful alternative fuel tax credit revenue or income.

In 2024, for example, our adjusted EBITDA of $76.6 million included $24 million in alternative fuel tax credit income. So on an apples to apples basis, a nice increase in 2025 for adjusted EBITDA. For the fourth quarter, the alternative fuel tax credit amount in 2024 was $6 million to consider when comparing results to $25 million.

RNG delivered in 2025 was 237.4 million gallons, about 97% of our target. The slight shortfall really goes back to the first quarter where extreme weather hampered RNG supply. We were able to make up a lot, but not all of the Q1 shortfall during the rest of 2025. In the fourth quarter of 2025, we delivered 64.1 million gallons of RNG, which was approximately 5% increase over the third quarter of 2025 and approximately 3% higher than a year ago in the fourth quarter.

Also in the fourth quarter we saw improved financial performance by our RNG upstream business, and we expect that trend to continue going into 2026. The results of our fuel distribution business, particularly at the gross margin level, were on par with what we've seen during the first three quarters, with the exception being our SG&A expenses in the fourth quarter were approximately $4 million above our normal run rate due to one-off personnel and station exit costs.

For 2026, our SG&A expenses will trend significantly lower. We ended 2025 with $156.1 million in cash and investments after having paid down $65 million in debt in the fourth quarter. At present we do not have plans for additional paydowns of our debt in 2026. Looking further at 2026, we're expecting to deliver 250 million gallons of RNG with total fuel volumes of around 324 million gallons.

Our RNG upstream business is expected to produce 7 million to 9 million gallons from eight operating dairies. Revenues for 2026 are expected to range from $420 million to $440 million with a GAAP net loss of $71 million to $66 million and adjusted EBITDA of $70 million to $75 million.

We have a further breakdown of our guidance for GAAP and non-GAAP in our press release between our fuel distribution and RNG upstream businesses. For 2026, we expect to see significant improvements in our RNG upstream business, which is expected to have lower GAAP losses and positive adjusted EBITDA for 2026.

Our fuel distribution business will see significant improvement in its GAAP net loss, with adjusted EBITDA coming off from a robust 25% performance. Due to anticipated lower but still very adequate fuel margins, adjusting for normal pricing and market conditions, including impacts of some significant contract renewals, and the amount of environmental credit value retained by us.

We are maintaining a cautious view on the spread of natural gas to oil for 2026, but certainly short of a negative view. Having said that, we are constructive on RNG and LCFS credit prices for 2026. With an expectation that the RNG and California LCFS credit prices will continue at prices like we've seen to begin 2026.

We also include 45Z credit values in our results for 2026 pertaining to the RNG production volumes in our JVs as well as the South Fork Dairy, which we fully consolidate. As I mentioned, we're expecting our SG&A expenses to come down by about 10% or over $10 million in 2026. That may be a run rate of about $25 million a quarter, and that includes the stock comp in there.

Our capital expenditure should remain steady at approximately $25 million for our fuel distribution business, which includes maintenance CapEx as well as additional station buildouts. Keeping in mind here that in 2023 and 2024 combined, we spent $153 million in CapEx for our fuel distribution business, primarily for the buildout of our 19 Amazon purpose-built stations. So we've now come down to a more normalized rate of $25 million, which was similar to 2025.

Investments into our RNG upstream business for 2026 are expected to be around $40 million solely related to our continued construction and eventual completion of our three Mass Energy Works dairy projects. We are using cash that we have on our balance sheet and cash generated from operations to fund the fuel distribution cap x and our RNG upstream investments for 2026.

We do not have any borrowings contemplated for 2026. We are expecting to generate around $50 million in operating cash flow in 2026. For comparison purposes, recall that in 2025 we picked interest of $15 million which benefited our operating cash flows in 2025. In 2026, we do not intend to pick any interest, although our interest payments will be reduced by approximately $6 million for the year since we paid down $65 million of debt in December.

And with that operator we can open the call to questions.

(Operator Instructions)

Rob Brown, Lake Street Capital Markets.

Alright, good to see the upstream business starting to get deep positive. That's great news. Just a sense of the ramp trajectory of the eight facilities you have kind of now open and operating and generating fuel. I think you have some metrics on the gallon volume, but how do you sort of see the ramp, trajectory to full capacity there kind of playing out.

Well, there will be a bit of a ramp. It's not a dramatic ramp, but certainly, the -- I'll say mostly the second half of the year is a little better, so you have maybe you're not right out of the gate in 2-1, but certainly much better than what it's been in 2-1, and then it kind of ramps up, each quarter. I mean, like -- it's a significant improvement, so the ramp we've got a range of $3 million to $5 million of adjusted EBITDA. So you're going to ramp that kind of over four quarters.

Yeah, okay, great, and then maybe to the 15 L engine, and sort of the truck market, I know it's a tough year. How you said some signs of maybe, visibility there. How do you, what are you hearing from customers in terms of the interest in buying trucks and sort of interest in the 15 L over the next, I guess this year?

I think, Rob, you're seeing the some of the macro issues that have plagued the trucking industry or some of those are clearing up, so I think that is a more healthy backdrop. We're engaged with a lot of the largest fleets. I've said this before, we continue to be, I guess I'm, if I one of my takeaways is that I'm encouraged that customers even with all the rolling back of various mandates and different policies we're still seeing a great deal of interest in fleets wanting to be. Clean environmental have lower carbon sustainable trucks we're seeing and hearing from their customers, right, the shippers that that's still of interest.

So we're really working hard to come up with the total cost of ownership, which you know we're fortunate that we can do in our business because if we can price very aggressively to give them a good economic return on that natural gas investment. And then they have dramatic savings going forward. So you know I'm kind of, I'm sort of optimistic we have a demo, we have demo trucks, not just Clean Energy, others in the business, the industry have really stepped forward. We have literally the the largest fleets in America are either demoing trucks or we're beginning to see some orders, still small but very instructive orders coming and so.

The final thing, Rob, is the engine seems to be working really well, and as I mentioned in my remarks, the torque and horsepower, drivability, even the mileage is really improved from what we've seen before in the 12 L, so we have to work it hard. And there's a lot of sort of policy turmoil out there that people are beginning to understand, but I feel better in '26 than I did in '25.

Derrick Whitfield, Texas Capital.

Let me, I mean, clearly, first, thank you guys for offering both upstream and downstream guidance for your business. Maybe just on the upstream side I know you touched on the prepared remarks about 45Z. Could you just advise how you're accounting for it in your guidance both on volumes and average CI.

Yeah, well, we are -- accounting for it, we're accruing for it, as we produce volume. We anticipate that where that would get recorded will be a reduction cost of sales. And we -- in our plan we are -- I'll say more optimistic than what's currently kind of in the legislation to for us to reflect CIs with dairy manure. And I won't get into the specifics of exactly what scores because that varies at every dairy and frankly the legislation is still kind of forthcoming on that but I will say that we are we're generally a bit more optimistic than what's currently in legislation and -- we'll record that. We'll record that as we go along in the year. According to what's out there in legislation, but we anticipate that it'll improve. When the final rules come out.

And maybe just to to put a button on that if legislation were in the 50 territory, that's kind of where you guys would be today even though you believe that 200 might be the ultimate reading on average, am I saying that correctly?

Well, I don't know that we told you that it would be 200, but we agree with you that we think that when this finally shakes out and when a 45Z, when a GREET model finally gets adopted and when we look at the legislation and from the engagement that we've had. We think that it should improve from, that 50, yeah.

I figured I just want to make sure I was thinking about the right range. Okay fantastic and then maybe just leaning further on the upstream side while I realize LCFS credits aren't back to the levels where most of these projects were underwritten we are seeing progress as you guys highlighted both in LCFS and and also potential through 45Z to further enhance economics outside of what you're doing with mass at present. Are the prices in 45Z getting back to a level where it might make sense to revisit some of the growth opportunities in your backlog?

Not yet there, like you mentioned, we are optimistic and sort of constructive on where we see and our partners as well where we see the LCFS trending over time. Just to kind of remind the audience, I mean, we underwrite a lot of underwrote some of these projects when it was 150 or 180 so we have some room to grow there and I don't think you'll see us underwriting any projects right now I mean you know we're very focused on bringing these on having them contributed so we're pleased with that.

We got watch out some of the markets break here before we invest more. We've got three more projects we're very excited about. We'll end the year with, 10 kind of breaking over early '27 to for 11 projects. And you know we feel pretty good about there we're now we have dry powder in case we we see one that we have to have, but I think right now, consider that we're going to take a breather and make sure that what we have under construction and you know that we increase the the operation of the ones that we have.

Matthew Blair, TPH.

Great, thank you. Hello, Andrew and Bob and congrats on, beating the top end of your 2025 guidance range. For 2026, in fuel distribution you mentioned the impacts of some significant contract renewals. I think you also mentioned that sounds like you're retaining fewer of the credits, in these renewals. Could you talk about the drivers here? Is this just a function of more competition in the market? Or what's really causing this?

Well, it's two fold. I mean it absolutely there's competition in the RNG world, and we're that is what it is. We're in a good place for that, but you can't deny that there's a lot of folks wanting to put RNG places, and we have a lot of those places to put RNG, but so we got maintain our market share in that sense, but it comes at a price and then on the, well, and then the on the contract renewal.

That's something that's a reality, but it's a very positive aspect of I mean, it's what's the beauty of our models, the recurring revenue model so, and we have a lot of renewals, but we've had some major ones, come up where, we're reflecting. Where we're at with, current market conditions prices, other competitors, as well as, what we've spent on. On CapEx in prior years versus where we're headed going forward, so, that will reflect, but as I said, this is very, it's very positive because we're talking about renewals, in my view, and the resulting margins, if you will are still very adequate for us. I mean, they're very good. I mean, we're coming off a robust 25, I will say, and you've, I think, commented about that. So we're not necessarily repeating that, but we're accommodating these renewals and that's part of it.

Sounds good. And then you touched on the weather issues, from a year ago, Q1 '25. Are there any weather challenges so far this quarter that that we should be thinking about?

A little bit, not to the extent that we saw last year that, I mean we had some, but -- yeah, but there's been some freezes, but I think that, we're going to go mostly normal course on that, so I don't, I'm not anticipating coming out with --

I mean some of our facilities saw 40 degrees, so you know you have some operating challenges during that, but nothing like last year, so we kind of dodged that in terms of just kind of a perfect storm of production that came offline, from our third parties. Didn't see that this year, so that's good.

But it is anticipated somewhat in our plan anyway, I mean, right, because it's like, okay, it is going to get winter happens we're going to get darn cold and maybe colder than we didn't think.

Betty Zhang, Scotiabank.

Could you, give us an update on your JVs with BP and Telt Energies? Is there an appetite for growth from your partners? And if I heard correctly, it seems your upstream investments this year are solely related to the Mass Energy Works projects. So just, wondering, how those JVs are looking.

That's right. The cap tax on the RNG is for those moss is the completion of the two to three. And we've got that money as as you know and and that'll get spent throughout the remainder of this year and those projects, two of them will be finished in the one in the spring, one a little later than that, and then the third project in the beginning of '27.

That's all we've got anticipated with our partners right now, Betty. Our partners, BP's got a lot of landfill gas they bring on with their other investments. I think all of us are very interested in bringing these lease the East Valley, which is really a significant investment, very large dairy on and have it operate correctly. So we've got our hands full and I think all of us feel good about where we are.

We're always looking at opportunities as I said on the last for the last question but I think right now we don't have any hard plans or any other investments that we're ready to pull the trigger on. And that would be the case with all of our partners.

Great, makes sense. And then for my follow-up, would you, be able to give us some color on 2026 RNG volumes as well as your own upstream production volumes?

Yeah, our RNG volumes are anticipated to be 250 million gallons. And the RNG production volumes from our RNG upstream, JV's and South Fork is 7 million to 9 million gallons. And I'll add a little side note on that right for everyone's, information, so that's 7 million to 9 million gallons that will be produced at those dairies. All of that gas comes to us, so that does actually also flow through our fuel distribution business, but the economics on that can change what's in everything except South Fork is kind of a 50/50 type share in the economics. So when you're looking at that, at the production volume, we get about 50% of the economics on, seven of those and then the South Fork is fully consolidated, so we get all the economics there.

Craig Shear, Tuohy Brothers.

Good afternoon. So I understand you're more optimistic, and heading into '26 on the new advanced CNG truck sales flow, but given the narrowing spreads between diesel and CNG, is it reasonable to think that the payback period for the fuel savings for for the fleet cost is kind of getting a little elongated here. I mean, I understand that they're trying to cut costs or the additional upfront cost of the CNG trucks, over time, but are we at risk of an elongated payback period and that creating a headwind to this growth outlook?

Well, right now, Craig, and I appreciate your question. I mean, of course, if the spreads narrowed significantly, you would see that payback period getting elongated. We don't see that yet. As Bob mentioned in his remarks, we're I don't want to say we're optimistic about that spread widening, but we're kind of constructive that we believe may not quite see the spreads we saw in 2025, but we'll have good, like as I look today, you've got pretty good spread right on natural gas versus oil price, obviously there's geopolitics at work here, but. I don't know that's an issue, Craig, that's really come up that where we've seeing alarm.

We can discount our fuel significantly and allow for about a two year payback, we have to always work with our channel partners and with Cummins and with the dealers and with the OEMs to make sure that we're putting the best price of that package forward and there's probably always work to be done on that and the more of those we sell, the better that'll get, and we're working on that hard with all of those people.

But I feel like not much has changed on that front right now. We've seen a little bit of tightening of the spread in the central, south, eastern United States, but, in the last, since January 1, that's come back up, out a little bit, widened a little bit, so we're okay right now, Craig, but it's something that obviously we keep our eye on constantly.

Great. And correct me if I'm wrong, is the fourth quarter of '25, an all-time record RNG volume through the downstream and what -- how do you, anticipate, I understand what your upstream is doing. But how do you anticipate opportunities to source third-party RNG to continue to grow that over the next two, three years?

Go ahead, Bob. Yeah, we have a record.

Thank you for that. We would mark it down as a record quarter. It's probably gold medal worthy, so, and I got so enamored with that thought that I didn't hear the rest of your question.

Frankly what, I'll try, Craig, on the last part of your question. Everybody wants into the transportation sector. And there's a lot of RNG available and we have very good relations with all of those in the industry. We source from 90 suppliers today. There's plenty of RNG. I mean, what all of us need in the business is for more, transportation volume, and we're of course we're sort of the tip of the spear there, working hard every day to create it, so there's a lot of RNG available.

All of us to use a little bit more adoption and more volume and transportation because, the, frankly the alternative markets are tough, right now and so, everybody wants in transportation and we happen to be. In a very enviable place there because we have all those nozzle tips. But there's no shortage of RNG and at at present. And, frankly, not for the next couple three years, I would imagine. I hope there will be soon.

Eric Stein, Craig-Hallum.

Hey, just sneaking a few in here at the end, hopefully, no repeats, just been jumping between calls, but, following up on that last question, I know some time ago you had set the goal that you would that it would be all RNG through your Clean Energy owned stations. And I know that 100% of the volume in California is RNG, but just curious where we stand towards that goal. I know you talked about that in 2026 you expect about 250 million gallons of RNG.

I think Eric, we're at 90%, I think through our infrastructure we're at 93%.

Okay. So I mean to get to 100% as you said you have really no limitations in a minute.

I mean I'm being corrected. I'm being corrected it's 89% and and some of that is because we've seen some conventional gas, fossil natural gas go up, so we sort of work against ourselves once in a while on that but I mean, obviously we've done a good job moving. All, almost all of the fuel is now dairy in California. So you remember a few years ago we talked about someday we'd like to see that go from 10% to 30%. Well, it's way, it's almost at 100% I think maybe in '26 it will be so we're doing well on that goal. And it'll continue to be high like this, I would think from here on in.

Got it. And then I mean in terms of stations where you do O&M, I mean there are cases where you're involved in the supply of the RNG as well. Is that correct?

And of course you know that's, Eric, that's something that you know we again we see that as a little bit of an advantage, right? We have these long-term relationships where we have maybe built that station. There could have been a time in the past where a transit property, got their natural gas from the local utility and because we know them and because we're experts in RNG we've been able, that's kind of what I was talking about in my remarks, that you may have missed, where we flipped, right?

We flipped transit properties from maybe them buying CNG. From a utility to where now we're supplying the RNG so we have a big list right now of candidates in '26 where we hope to you know work that relationship and move them from. A competitor supplier from CNG from utility and move them over to RNG so we have a workout for us we have a team of people, but that's what they do. And so we hope to add that you know some of what we have in our plan, and wish us well on that.

Yeah, and so it sounds like I mean that would probably be the bigger objective than getting through your stations where it's 89% getting that up to 95% 100% is that fair?

Yeah, that'll help, right if we land 4 million gallons, 5 million gallons, and an adder where we were doing the maintenance but we weren't doing the gas and we can flip that to RNG that we're supplying, yeah, that, that's one of the ways that number comes up.

Okay, last one for me, I know you talked a little bit about the 45Z and obviously waiting on the guidance to be dialed in some, but just curious, you know what conversations you're having in terms of at some point monetizing those credits with a third-party.

Yeah, I mean our expectation is to get into you know a routine monetization you know we've already been in the market with the ITC and monetizing that and so our team is well connected with third parties there. As well, but that is the plan I mean we also work with our partners. On all of that, so we're in a good spot there we feel, and there's definitely an appetite out there for the 45Z credits.

Thank you. At this time there are no further questions in queue. I will now turn the meeting back to Andrew Littlefair.

Good, thank you operator and thank you everyone for joining us and we look forward to speaking with you next time on our first quarter results. Have a good day.

Thank you. This brings us to the end of today's meeting. We appreciate your time and participation. You may now disconnect.