Clean Energy Fuels Corp (CLNE) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day everyone, and welcome to today's Clean Energy Fuels third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

大家好，歡迎參加今天的清潔能源燃料公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，本次通話正在錄音。（操作說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Robert Vreeland, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

現在我很高興將會議交給財務長羅伯特·弗里蘭先生。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Earlier this afternoon, Clean Energy released financial results for the third quarter ending September 30, 2025. If you did not receive the release, it is available on the Investor Relations section of the company's website where the call is also being webcast. There will be a replay available on the website for 30 days.

謝謝接線生。今天下午早些時候，清潔能源公司發布了截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日的第三季財務業績。如果您沒有收到新聞稿，可以在公司網站的投資者關係版塊找到，電話會議也將在該版塊進行網路直播。網站上將提供30天的回放。

Before we begin, we'd like to remind you that some of the information contained in the news release and on this conference call contains forward-looking statements that involve risk, uncertainties, and assumptions that are difficult to predict. Such forward-looking statements are not a guarantee of performance, and the company's actual results could differ materially from those contained in such statements.

在開始之前，我們想提醒各位，新聞稿和本次電話會議中包含的一些資訊涉及前瞻性陳述，這些陳述涉及風險、不確定性和難以預測的假設。此類前瞻性陳述並非績效保證，本公司的實際績效可能與此類陳述中所包含的績效有重大差異。

Several factors that could cause or contribute to such differences are described in detail in the risk factor section of Clean Energy's Form 10-Q filed today. These forward-looking statements speak only as the date of this release. The company undertakes no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements or supply new information regarding the circumstances after the date of this release.

清潔能源公司今天提交的 10-Q 表格的風險因素部分詳細描述了可能導致或促成此類差異的幾個因素。這些前瞻性陳述僅代表截至本新聞稿發布之日的資訊。本公司不承擔在本新聞稿發布之日後公開更新任何前瞻性聲明或提供有關情況的新資訊的義務。

Company non-GAAP, EPS, and adjusted EBITDA will be reviewed on this call and exclude certain expenses that the company's management does not believe are indicative of the company's core business operating results. Non-GAAP financial measures should be considered in addition to results prepared in accordance with the GAAP and should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to GAAP results.

本次電話會議將檢視公司非GAAP財務指標、每股盈餘和調整後EBITDA，並剔除公司管理階層認為無法反映公司核心業務經營績效的某些費用。非公認會計準則財務指標應與依照公認會計準則編製的結果一併考慮，不應被視為替代或優於公認會計準則結果。

The directly comparable GAAP information reasons why management uses non-GAAP information, the definition of non-GAAP EPS and adjusted EBITDA, and a reconciliation between these non-GAAP and GAAP figures is provided in the company's press release, which has been furnished to the SEC on Form 8-K today.

本公司新聞稿中提供了直接可比較的 GAAP 資訊、管理層使用非 GAAP 資訊的原因、非 GAAP 每股盈餘和調整後 EBITDA 的定義，以及這些非 GAAP 和 GAAP 資料之間的調整表。新聞稿已於今日以 8-K 表格的形式提交給美國證券交易委員會。

With that, I will turn the call over to our President and Chief Executive Officer, Andrew Littlefair.

接下來，我將把電話交給我們的總裁兼執行長安德魯·利特爾費爾。

Thank you, Bob. I'm pleased to report that our business delivered another strong quarter. For the third quarter, we posted $106 million in revenue, sold 61 million gallons of renewable natural gas, and generated $17 million of adjusted EBITDA. We ended the quarter meeting our expectations in line with the raised guidance for 2025 that we announced in August with $232 million in cash and short-term investments and maintaining a strong balance sheet with ample financial flexibility and capacity to fund growth.

謝謝你，鮑伯。我很高興地報告，我們公司又迎來了一個強勁的季度。第三季度，我們實現營收 1.06 億美元，售出 6,100 萬加侖可再生天然氣，調整後 EBITDA 為 1,700 萬美元。本季末，我們實現了預期目標，符合我們在 8 月宣布的 2025 年業績指引上調後的預期。我們擁有 2.32 億美元的現金和短期投資，維持了強勁的資產負債表，擁有充足的財務靈活性和能力來支持成長。

Today, I will provide updates on our downstream fueling business, RNG's opportunity in the heavy-duty truck sector, and progress in our upstream RNG production business. I'll let Bob provide more detail on our financials and our reaffirmed full year outlook.

今天，我將介紹我們下游燃料業務的最新進展、RNG 在重型卡車領域的機會以及我們上游 RNG 生產業務的進展。我會讓鮑伯詳細介紹我們的財務狀況以及我們重申的全年展望。

Our downstream fueling business continues to perform well. Transit and Refuse remain steady contributors, reflecting long-standing customer relationships and our ability to deliver clean, affordable fuel day in and day out. For over two decades, natural gas trucks and buses have delivered cleaner air and lower emissions to these fleets in the cities they serve.

我們的下游加油業務持續表現良好。運輸和垃圾處理業務仍然是穩定的貢獻者，這反映了我們與客戶之間長期的良好關係，以及我們日復一日提供清潔、價格合理的燃料的能力。二十多年來，天然氣卡車和巴士為它們所服務的城市車隊帶來了更清潔的空氣和更低的排放。

On the Refuse side, we currently have 140 different companies ranging from national leaders like WM and Republic Services, many regional companies around the country, 309 fueling sites, and we fuel the buses of transit agencies from New York City to L.A. and many in between. We are well positioned to support additional fleets in their adoption of ultra clean RNG.

在垃圾處理方面，我們目前有 140 家不同的公司，包括 WM 和 Republic Services 等全國領先企業，以及遍布全國的許多區域性公司，309 個加油站，我們為從紐約市到洛杉磯以及兩者之間許多城市的公交機構的巴士提供加油服務。我們已做好充分準備，支援更多船隊採用超清潔的可再生天然氣。

Clean Energy also continues to support transit agencies that are following California's state incentives to explore hydrogen alongside RNG. Late September, we announced we were awarded the contract to design, build, and maintain a second hydrogen fueling station for Foothill Transit. This extends our 20-plus year partnership with the agency and complements the RNG fuel fleet Foothill already operates.

清潔能源公司也持續支持那些遵循加州政府激勵措施，探索氫能與再生天然氣結合的交通運輸機構。9 月下旬，我們宣布獲得了為 Foothill Transit 設計、建造和維護第二個氫燃料加註站的合約。這延續了我們與該機構 20 多年的合作關係，並補充了 Foothill 已運營的 RNG 燃料車隊。

The new site will support an initial 19 hydrogen fuel cell buses. We've also won awards to build hydrogen stations for the cities of Riverside and Ventura Transit agencies.

新站點初期將支援19輛氫燃料電池公車。我們也獲得了為河濱市和文圖拉市交通局建造氫氣站的獎項。

The largest opportunity for our downstream fueling business continues to be heavy duty trucking. Approximately 250,000 new Class A heavy duty trucks are sold each year in the US and Canada. The heavy-duty sector is tasked with providing critical goods move services across our economy.

我們下游燃料業務的最大機會仍然是重型卡車運輸。美國和加拿大每年大約售出 25 萬輛新的 A 級重型卡車。重型車輛運輸業肩負著為我國經濟提供關鍵貨物運輸服務的重任。

Meanwhile, the sector has been facing challenging freight rates, certainly uncertain policy regulations, and continued demand from shippers to lower emissions in this hard to decarbonized segment of the value chain. As you know, overall sales of heavy-duty trucks has been significantly lower over the last year or two compared to most years.

同時，該產業面臨嚴峻的貨運價格挑戰、不確定的政策法規，以及托運人不斷要求降低價值鏈中這一難以脫碳環節的排放量。如您所知，過去一兩年重型卡車的整體銷售與往年相比明顯下降。

Battery, electric, and hydrogen face significant challenges for heavy duty trucking. RNG on the other end is low NOx and has low-to-negative greenhouse gas emissions. It does this at a lower cost of ownership than even diesel. The engine technology, infrastructure, and reliable supply of clean fuel are here today, and at Clean Energy, we are pursuing this opportunity on multiple fronts.

電池、電力和氫燃料電池在重型卡車領域面臨巨大的挑戰。另一方面，再生天然氣 (RNG) 的氮氧化物排放量低，溫室氣體排放量低甚至為負值。它的擁有成本甚至比柴油還低。引擎技術、基礎設施和可靠的清潔燃料供應如今都已具備，在清潔能源領域，我們正在多個方面抓住這一機會。

In September, Pioneer Clean Fleet Solutions launched as the first leasing company focused on low carbon heavy-duty vehicles with next generation CNG trucks as the focus. Clean energy alongside Cummins and Hexagon Agility, partnered with Pioneer to support another pathway that lowers barriers for fleets to adopt RNG-powered equipment.

9 月，Pioneer Clean Fleet Solutions 成立，成為第一家專注於低碳重型車輛租賃的公司，專注於下一代 CNG 卡車。清潔能源公司與康明斯和海克斯康敏捷公司合作，與先鋒公司攜手，支持另一條降低車隊採用 RNG 動力設備門檻的途徑。

Just last week, we expanded our Class A demo truck program with a 2026 Freightliner Cascadia Gen 5 day cab equipped with the Cummins X15N. Our truck was unveiled at the American Trucking Association's conference to high praise from the senior editor of Transport Topics, the leading trucking publication who did a test drive.

就在上週，我們擴大了 A 級演示卡車計劃，新增了一輛配備康明斯 X15N 發動機的 2026 年 Freightliner Cascadia Gen 5 日間駕駛室卡車。我們的卡車在美國卡車運輸協會的會議上亮相，受到了領先的卡車運輸出版物《運輸專題》的高級編輯的高度讚揚，他還進行了試駕。

Demo truck will rotate among carriers so they can experience the X15N's performance across real routes in our fueling network. This builds on the success of our first Peterbilt X15N demo launched last year, and that continues to be in rotation around the country. Since Freightliner has the largest overall market share in the heavy-duty space, the demand to get in the queue for this new demo truck has been very high.

演示卡車將在各運輸公司之間輪換，以便他們能夠體驗 X15N 在我們加油網絡的實際路線上的性能。這是建立在我們去年推出的第一輛 Peterbilt X15N 演示車的成功基礎上的，該演示車目前仍在全國各地輪流使用。由於 Freightliner 在重型卡車領域擁有最大的市場份額，因此人們對這款新型示範卡車的排隊需求非常高。

Turning to our upstream RNG production business, while RIN pricing has stabilized, CFS credit prices continue to face some headwinds impacting segment profitability. We expect [carvers] program changes, which are already in effect to tighten the market and support gradual price improvement in 2026 and beyond.

再來看我們的上游 RNG 生產業務，雖然 RIN 價格已經穩定，但 CFS 信用價格繼續面臨一些不利因素，影響了該業務板塊的獲利能力。我們預計，目前已經生效的[雕刻師]計劃變更將收緊市場，並支持2026年及以後價格的逐步改善。

The 45Z clean fuel production credit is an important value driver for dairy RNG that recognizes the fuel's negative emissions benefit. We continue to await Treasury's finalization of the 45Z rules and credit values which we expect in the next few months. We plan to begin to monetize our 2025 45Z credits once those rules are finalized.

45Z 清潔燃料生產積分是乳製品 RNG 的重要價值驅動因素，它認可了該燃料的負排放效益。我們仍在等待財政部最終確定 45Z 規則和信用價值，預計在未來幾個月內公佈。我們計劃在相關規則最終確定後，開始將 2025 年的 45Z 積分貨幣化。

Meanwhile, we are controlling what we can control, project execution and production improvement. I'm pleased to report that our two largest dairy projects, one in Texas and one in Idaho, have recently begun initial operations. We will be announcing more specifics soon about these exciting developments. This brings our total projects in operation to eight.

同時，我們正在控制我們能夠控制的事情，即專案執行和生產改進。我很高興地報告，我們最大的兩個乳製品項目，一個在德克薩斯州，一個在愛達荷州，最近已經開始初步運作。我們將很快公佈這些令人興奮的進展的更多細節。這使得我們正在運營的項目總數達到八個。

We continue to be focused on optimizing production across our portfolio to increase our own supply of negative carbon RNG for our network. 100% of the fuel that we sell in California is RNG, and the average carbon intensity score of that fuel is minus 194, so that's impressive.

我們持續致力於優化旗下所有項目的生產，以增加我們自身負碳排放再生天然氣（RNG）的供應量，從而更好地服務我們的能源網路。我們在加州銷售的燃料100%都是RNG，其平均碳排放強度為-194，成績斐然。

In addition, we broke ground on three new dairy RNG projects under our development agreement with Maas Energy Works. These projects span six dairies across South Dakota, Georgia, Florida, and New Mexico, and are expected to produce 3 million gallons of RNG annually, once fully operational.

此外，根據我們與 Maas Energy Works 的開發協議，我們啟動了三個新的乳製品 RNG 專案。這些項目涵蓋南達科他州、喬治亞州、佛羅裡達州和新墨西哥州的六個乳牛場，一旦全面投入運營，預計每年可生產 300 萬加侖可再生天然氣。

In summary, our business fundamentals remain solid. The downstream fueling business is steady and well positioned for growth, and on the upstream side, we're executing and scaling. Clean Energy is uniquely positioned with the largest RNG fueling network, a substantial supply of RNG from our own operations and from third-parties, and a team that knows how to deliver for our customers.

總而言之，我們的業務基本面依然穩固。下游加油業務穩定，發展前景良好；在上游方面，我們正在積極推動並擴大規模。Clean Energy 擁有獨特的優勢，擁有最大的 RNG 燃料網絡，從我們自己的營運和第三方獲得大量的 RNG 供應，以及一支知道如何為客戶提供服務的團隊。

We believe our formula of practical decarbonization at a lower cost per mile than diesel will continue to resonate with fleets and shippers that need solutions they can deploy today.

我們相信，我們提出的以低於柴油每英里成本實現切實可行的脫碳方案，將繼續引起需要立即部署的解決方案的車隊和貨運商的共鳴。

And with that, I'll hand the call back to Bob.

就這樣，我把電話交還給鮑伯。

Thank you, Andrew, and good afternoon to everyone. The third quarter of 2025 was another good quarter on $106.1 million in revenue versus $104.9 million a year ago. Last year's revenue included $6.4 million in alternative fuel tax credit revenues and the alternative fuel tax credit is not in place for 2025 as it was not extended past 2024. But putting the alternative fuel tax credit aside, the increase in revenues over last year's third quarter was 8%, primarily driven by increases in fuel sales along with the rise in station construction sales.

謝謝你，安德魯，大家下午好。2025 年第三季業績依然良好，營收達 1.061 億美元，去年同期為 1.049 億美元。去年的收入包括 640 萬美元的替代燃料稅抵免收入，而替代燃料稅抵免政策在 2024 年後沒有延期，因此 2025 年將不再實施。但撇開替代燃料稅收抵免不談，與去年第三季相比，營收成長了 8%，這主要是由於燃料銷售成長以及加油站建設銷售額上升所致。

On a GAAP basis, our net loss for the third quarter of 2025 was $23.8 million versus $18.2 million in 2024, with the 2024 net loss benefiting from the $6.4 million in alternative fuel tax credits not applicable to '25. And our -- and as well our 2025 GAAP net loss included $3 million in net incremental costs for a couple of one-time items, one of those being $5 million in incremental accelerated depreciation expense that was tied to our pilot stations, bringing that total depreciation charge in line with our initial estimates.

以美國通用會計準則 (GAAP) 計算，我們 2025 年第三季的淨虧損為 2,380 萬美元，而 2024 年為 1,820 萬美元，2024 年的淨虧損得益於 640 萬美元的替代燃料稅抵免，而該抵免不適用於 2025 年。此外，我們 2025 年的 GAAP 淨虧損包括 300 萬美元的淨增量成本，用於支付幾個一次性項目，其中之一是與我們的試點站點相關的 500 萬美元的增量加速折舊費用，使總折舊費用與我們最初的估計一致。

And the second one-time item was the $2 million non-operating game from the liquidation of a non-core investment. These two items did not impact adjusted EBITDA. Speaking of which, our adjusted EBITDA for the third quarter of 2025 was $17.3 million and reflects similar and steady trends from our recent second quarter of 2025 with good fuel and service margins, plus an improvement in our upstream dairy negative adjusted EBITDA.

第二筆一次性支出是清算非核心投資所得的 200 萬美元非經營性遊戲收入。這兩個項目對調整後的 EBITDA 沒有影響。說到這裡，我們 2025 年第三季的調整後 EBITDA 為 1730 萬美元，反映了與我們最近 2025 年第二季類似的穩定趨勢，這得益於良好的燃料和服務利潤率，以及上游乳製品負調整後 EBITDA 的改善。

Last year adjusted EBITDA of $21.3 million, of course includes the $6.4 million of alternative fuel tax credits. When excluding the alternative fuel tax credits from '24, the improvements in 2025 over '24 continue to come from greater fuel volumes, including both conventional natural gas and RNG, particularly a higher concentration of low CI dairy RNG along with lower operating expenses from a year ago third quarter.

去年調整後的 EBITDA 為 2,130 萬美元，當然包括 640 萬美元的替代燃料稅收抵免。如果排除 2024 年的替代燃料稅收抵免，2025 年相對於 2024 年的改善將繼續來自更大的燃料量，包括常規天然氣和可再生天然氣，特別是低 CI 乳製品可再生天然氣的集中度更高，以及與去年第三季度相比更低的運營費用。

These improvements helped to offset the effects of lower rent pricing from a year ago, where you can see the rent revenue is down $2.8 million versus last year. We generated cash flow from operations again in the third quarter, and our cash and investment balance of $232 million that Andrew mentioned is our balance after making a $12 million contribution of capital into our dairy RNG joint venture with Maas Energy Works in the third quarter.

這些改進有助於抵消一年前租金價格下降的影響，可以看到租金收入比去年減少了 280 萬美元。我們在第三季再次實現了經營活動產生的現金流，安德魯提到的 2.32 億美元的現金和投資餘額，是我們第三季度向與 Maas Energy Works 合作的乳製品 RNG 合資企業注資 1200 萬美元後的餘額。

And lastly, you'll note that we maintained our 2025 outlook which we had raised back in August, and we feel good. We feel that we're in good shape in maintaining that outlook.

最後，您會注意到我們維持了 2025 年的展望，該展望是在 8 月提出的，我們對此感到滿意。我們認為我們有能力保持這種前景。

And with that, operator, we can open the call to questions.

操作員，這樣我們就可以開始接受提問了。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Eric Stine, Craig-Hallum.

艾瑞克‧斯泰恩，克雷格-哈勒姆。

Hey. So maybe just starting with the RNG upstream business. So it sounds like you've got eight operating right now. Can you just give us kind of the thought or target, maybe run rate of volumes that you expect to ex to 25?

嘿。所以或許可以先從 RNG 上游業務著手。聽起來你們現在有八台設備在運作。您能否大致說明一下您預計達到 25 時的銷售目標或運行速度？

If you think about this longer-term, I know that market has changed a bit. You've got a lot of supply from third-party sources. So just kind of curious how you think about that when you look out multiple years? At one time you had a pretty high target for what you might ultimately produce upstream. Curious where that stands now.

從長遠來看，我知道市場已經發生了一些變化。你們有很多貨源來自第三方。所以，我只是有點好奇，當你展望未來多年時，你會怎麼考慮這個問題？曾經，你對上游最終可能產出的產品設定了一個相當高的目標。很好奇現在情況如何。

Right. So you're bringing up the production rates of the five that came online. We call them the Renewco projects, but you'll exit the year somewhere between 5 million and 6 million gallons, and next year, you'll double it, post to doubling it. And eventually you'll be closer to 20 million gallons once all those projects come on and now I'm going out. That's once those mass projects are on, and so now I'm going out to 2027.

正確的。所以你是在提高這五個新投產項目的產量。我們稱它們為 Renewco 項目，但今年年底你們的用水量將在 500 萬到 600 萬加侖之間，明年你們的用水量將翻一番，然後再翻一番。等所有這些項目都啟動後，最終產量將接近 2000 萬加侖，現在我要走了。那是在這些大規模計畫啟動之後的事，所以我現在把時間推到 2027 年。

Eric, you're referring to what we came out with almost five years ago, 4.5 years ago, the 100 million gallons, which by the way, would have taken another $1.2 billion or $4 billion. And we pulled that back long ago when we looked at the credit pricing and some of the current situation.

艾瑞克，你指的是我們大約五年前，或者說四年半前提出的方案，1億加侖，順便說一句，這還需要額外花費12億美元或40億美元。早在我們審視信貸定價和當前情況時，我們就撤回了這項決定。

But what I will say is, we like where we are. We like having that amount of fuel that we control. But we're very big in the business, as you well know, and we have 80- to 90 different suppliers. So we remain -- we're moving still about half of all the RNG into transportation in the industry. We continue to be at the focal point of that. Everyone that needs RNG and transportation often has to come to us. So we like our position.

但我必須說的是，我們很滿意我們現在所處的位置。我們喜歡能夠掌控自己的燃料量。但如您所知，我們公司規模非常大，我們有 80 到 90 家不同的供應商。因此，我們仍然將大約一半的可再生天然氣用於產業運輸。我們始終處於這一領域的中心。凡是需要RNG和運輸服務的人，通常都得來找我們。所以我們對目前的處境很滿意。

We feel like we've made prudent investments at this point. We have to get those up and running correctly. We're starting to see an improved production rates, which will continue to get better and better, and we're starting to feel much better about those early projects.

我們認為目前為止我們已經做出了明智的投資。我們必須確保這些設備正常運作。我們開始看到生產力提高，而且會越來越好，我們對早期專案的信心也越來越強了。

We take a great part in looking at the production that's going on in our first project, Del Rio. That's been up and running a while, and that thing's hitting name plate and it's doing very well. We're very proud of that, and we're seeing -- we're beginning to start seeing some significant increases in production at the others.

我們非常關注我們第一個專案 Del Rio 的製作過程。這個專案已經運作了一段時間，而且進展順利，非常成功。我們為此感到非常自豪，我們看到——我們開始看到其他工廠的產量也出現了顯著增長。

As I mentioned in my prepared remarks, Eric, our two biggest projects, one of which we own 100% of, they're just now beginning to inject. So those are big. One of those produces somewhere around 5 million gallons, and the other around 3.6 million gallons, and they're just now coming on. So, we like where we are and we'll see how that kind of all plays out as these -- as they develop here in '26 and in '27.

正如我在準備好的演講稿中提到的，艾瑞克，我們最大的兩個項目，其中一個是我們100%擁有的，現在才剛開始注資。所以這些都很重要。其中一座水廠年產量約 500 萬加侖，另一座水廠年產量約 360 萬加侖，它們現在才剛開始投產。所以，我們對現狀很滿意，我們會看看這一切在 2026 年和 2027 年會如何發展。

Yes. Thanks for that. And you mentioned -- I know last quarter or earlier in the year you kind of set it as an objective to improve the performance of the plants and and you have made progress. You did mention that you've got a few more steps to go. I mean any clarity there? I would assume or should we assume that those are pretty much -- you just kind of have to go through steps, it takes time rather than being something that's a significant investment?

是的。謝謝。您提到——我知道上個季度或今年早些時候，您把提高工廠績效作為目標，並且您已經取得了進展。你之前提到還有幾步要走。我的意思是，這方面有什麼明確的解釋嗎？我猜想或我們應該假設，這些基本上就是──你只需要按部就班地進行，這需要時間，而不是一項重大投資？

That's right. It's fine tuning. It's working with the farmer. It's all those things. There aren't big CapEx requirements to get them right. It's really just kind of bringing it along, getting the team working exactly right. So, going through the first winter and figuring out where certain other items need to be winterized. It's kind of mundane things, but they're important. And what's interesting, Eric, because you really do tune them up from -- kind of when they first come on, they're more like producing about half of what you thought, and next thing you know, they're at 70, 75. But they will begin to pull on up to the name plate.

這是正確的。這是微調。它正在與農民合作。以上所有因素都包含在內。要做好這些工作，並不需要大量的資本支出。其實就是慢慢來，讓團隊各司其職，運作得恰到好處。所以，熬過第一個冬天，並弄清楚哪些其他物品需要進行冬季保暖措施。這些都是些瑣碎的事情，但它們很重要。有趣的是，艾瑞克，因為你真的可以把它們調高——剛開始的時候，它們大概只能產生你預期的一半，然後你會發現，它們已經達到 70、75 了。但它們會開始慢慢靠近銘牌。

Got it. Last one for me. Just I know it's early days still, but the Pioneer Clean Fuel Solutions. Just any thoughts on initial interest? What you think that might do to spur, X15N adoption? Just kind of initial impressions.

知道了。這是我最後一個了。我知道現在還為時過早，但先鋒清潔燃料解決方案。對初步興趣有什麼想法嗎？你認為這會對X15N的普及有怎樣的作用？只是初步印象。

Well, I'm told -- look, I love having another interested party out working with our customers and with potential customers. I think that's really powerful. We know this crowd. I like the fact that we're engaged and standing that company up alongside Cummins and Hexagon and [Jolie]. I think that's good alignment for us. I'm told they have their first deal in the works. I'm not going to say any more than that.

嗯，我聽說——你看，我很高興有另一位感興趣的人士與我們的客戶和潛在客戶合作。我覺得這非常強大。我們認識這群人。我很高興我們能夠參與其中，並與康明斯和海克斯康等公司一起成長這家企業。[朱莉]我認為這對我們來說是個不錯的契合點。據說他們的第一筆交易正在籌備中。我不會再多說了。

But they have maybe the first paper out circulating and that they've already made -- had meetings with 20 different fleets. I think they did some -- showed the flag pretty well down there in San Diego at the ATA. So I like the fact that you have very focused group working just on RNG, just on natural gas trucks, understands the nuance there on leasing and so we're working hard hand in gloved with them, our sales team, and as is Hexagon and Cummins. So we'll see how they do.

但他們可能已經發布了第一份文件，並且已經與 20 個不同的艦隊舉行了會議。我認為他們確實做了一些——在聖地亞哥舉行的ATA會議上，他們很好地展示了國旗。所以我很欣賞你們有一個非常專注的團隊專門負責 RNG（可再生天然氣）卡車，了解租賃方面的細微差別，因此我們和他們的銷售團隊以及 Hexagon 和 Cummins 都在密切合作。我們拭目以待。

Rob Brown, Lake Street Capital Markets.

羅布布朗，湖街資本市場。

Good afternoon. Sticking with the 15-litre kind of ramp rates and how that's developing in the market. Good to see the pioneer project. But what sort of the other timeline and development of the 15-litre ramp? How do you see it at this point with sort of the market environment today?

午安.堅持採用 15 公升/分鐘的升壓速率，並觀察其在市場上的發展。很高興看到這個先鋒項目。但是，15公升斜坡的其他時間表和發展又是怎樣的呢？您如何看待當前市場環境？

Well, I think, there's been -- as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, I mean, the market has not been exactly favorable, right? The freight rate thing is real. That's a real overhang in the trucking business and it has affected, right? It has affected purchases of new trucks. So that's just something you wish can get worked off. I think you're going to have softer rates that will begin to firm, but as I read the material, it looks like that could take a good part of 2026. So that's just some headwinds there that I'd rather not have.

嗯，我認為，正如我在準備好的演講稿中提到的那樣，市場狀況一直不太樂觀，對吧？運費問題確實存在。這確實是貨運業面臨的一大難題，而且已經產生了影響，對吧？這影響了新卡車的購買。所以，你只是希望這件事能透過努力解決而已。我認為利率會先走低，然後開始走高，但根據我閱讀的資料來看，這可能要到 2026 年的大部分時間才會發生。所以，這對我來說是一些不利因素，我寧願避免。

It's hard to get people to make a move toward, not only buying new equipment, but buying new technology, when they're worried about tariffs and import duties and supply chain and the freight rates. Now having said that, I think that most in the industry have seen that there's kind of a shaking out. I mean as you take stock of what occurred down there in at the ATA conference in San Diego, I mean, it's clear that there's been a sorting out of the technology.

當人們擔心關稅、進口稅、供應鏈和運費時，很難讓他們採取行動，不僅購買新設備，而且購買新技術。話雖如此，我認為業內大多數人都已經意識到，現在正在經歷一場洗牌。我的意思是，當你回顧在聖地牙哥舉行的 ATA 大會上發生的事情時，很明顯，技術方面已經進行了一些梳理。

I mean, look, I'm not wishing ill on anything. But I think that the electric and the hydrogen technologies really have gotten knocked down in the peg because of their reliance on certain of the regulations and such. And certainly, at the federal level. And so now it's very clear that the -- if you're a trucker, you have diesel, renewable diesel, or you have RNG.

我的意思是，你看，我並沒有詛咒任何人。但我認為，電動和氫能技術的發展確實受到了阻礙，因為它們依賴某些法規等等。當然，在聯邦層級也是如此。所以現在很明顯了——如果你是卡車司機，你可以選擇柴油、再生柴油或再生天然氣。

And what's coming through is, Rob, that the fleets and the shippers still want sustainability, still want to be green, still want to decarbonize, but it has to make economic sense. That's what's different now is that this has to stand on its own bottom. Now, the good news for us is we have a technology and we have an engine that's here today and can be delivered today that can give returns.

羅布，我們可以看出，船隊和貨主仍然想要永續發展，仍然想要綠色環保，仍然想要脫碳，但這必須具有經濟意義。現在不同的是，這件事必須靠它自己站穩腳步。現在，對我們來說的好消息是，我們擁有現成的技術和引擎，可以立即交付，並帶來回報。

I mean, with our fuel pricing and with the economics associated with the incremental cost, we can get these fleets a two-year payback, 2.5-year payback on the equipment, and then they really have significant savings as they keep that truck up to the typical five years. So we like our positioning from that point of view. Now, we've had fleets such as Walmart, Amazon, UPS, FedEx, [Stry A], Knight-Swift, Food Express. I mean, they've all purchased the new X15N.

我的意思是，以我們的燃油定價和與增量成本相關的經濟效益來看，我們可以讓這些車隊在兩年內收回設備投資，或者在兩年半內收回投資，然後當他們將卡車使用長達五年時，他們真的可以節省一大筆錢。所以從這個角度來看，我們對目前的市場定位感到滿意。現在，我們擁有像沃爾瑪、亞馬遜、UPS、聯邦快遞、[Stry A]、Knight-Swift、Food Express 這樣的車隊。我的意思是，他們都買了新款 X15N。

So I like the breadth. Now we need more to acquire, and we need those fleets to really engage fully, but we're seeing some breadth of people beginning to take that in, get comfortable with it, and then we hope, they'll be those kinds of fleets by a lot of trucks. We hope that as they like what they've got and they're operating well, that we'll see increased adoption in the coming years.

所以我喜歡這種廣度。現在我們需要更多資源，也需要這些車隊真正全面投入，但我們看到越來越多的人開始接受這一點，並逐漸適應，然後我們希望，他們會擁有大量的卡車車隊。我們希望，由於他們對目前的產品感到滿意，而且營運狀況良好，未來幾年將會看到更多產品被採用。

But we're working hard with making sure that we're getting good exposure to the X15N with the largest fleets in America. And so far, most of them have taken some.

但我們正在努力確保美國最大的機隊能夠充分了解 X15N。到目前為止，他們中的大多數人都已經服用了一些。

Okay, great. Thanks for all the color there. And then on the Maas Energy development agreement. How much is the CapEx requirement on your side for the three facilities? And then I guess what sort of the pipeline on the Maas side that you could see additional facilities on?

好的，太好了。謝謝你帶來的繽紛色彩。然後是關於馬斯能源開發協議。貴方對這三個設施的資本支出需求是多少？那麼，我想問在馬斯河一側的輸油管上，可以看到哪些額外的設施？

Hold on, Bob. Rob?

等等，鮑伯。搶？

We had -- it's about $35 million. Now we've sent 12 over in the third quarter.

我們當時有——大約是3500萬美元。第三節我們已經送出了12顆球。

Okay, good. And then, and just in terms of the additional potential projects with Maas. Is there still a pipeline there? Or do you feel like this is sort of it from what you see right now?

好的。此外，就與馬斯公司的其他潛在項目而言。那裡還有輸油管嗎？或者，就你目前所見，你覺得這就是全部了嗎？

Well, Darryl's a busy guy. So, we've got those projects that I mentioned -- the three projects. We constantly work with Darryl to see -- there's a couple of others that we had looked at very closely. But just -- with the given credit situation, they didn't sing quite like we'd like and Darryll understood that. So we'll continue to look at those. And we like the fact that he's a very good operator and brings these projects on quickly and efficiently. So we'll see, yeah.

嗯，達裡爾是個大忙人。所以，我們有我提到的三個項目。我們一直與達裡爾合作，看看——還有幾個我們也仔細考察過。但是——就目前的信用狀況而言，他們的演唱並沒有達到我們想要的效果，達裡爾也理解這一點。所以我們會繼續關注這些問題。我們很欣賞他是一位非常優秀的營運者，能夠快速且有效率地推進這些專案。所以我們拭目以待吧。

And we'll have about -- well, for this, what we have in front of us, so $35 million was in the cards for this year. But we'll have about $85 million in total. So, yeah. That's the plan that's in front us with him.

我們大概會有——嗯，就我們目前的情況來看，今年的預算是 3500 萬美元。但我們總共會有大約 8500 萬美元。是的。這就是祂擺在我們面前的計劃。

Derek Whitfield, Texas Capital.

德里克·惠特菲爾德，德克薩斯資本。

Congrats on a solid update, guys. Maybe starting with the downstream, you guys announced a flurry of supply agreements last week. Could you speak to what led to that step change in activity and when those volumes will directionally start to flow through?

恭喜各位，更新很成功！或許可以從下游說起，你們上週宣布了一系列供應協議。您能否談談導致業務活動發生這種突變的原因，以及這些業務量何時會開始有方向性地流動？

Well. That, in many ways -- we have hundreds and hundreds of customers, right? So, at any given time, while we don't always announce all of them, because sometimes they're not as glamorous, let's say. Every year, we have a couple 100 different customers that grow their fleet and renew contracts with us. And so you're getting a little bit of that mix in there. Now, there were some winds. But I want to say that when you have the size of the network and the fact that we have about 800- or 900 customers under contract, there's a lot of activity, kind of constantly. We had some extra transit properties in that release.

出色地。從很多方面來說，我們確實有成百上千的客戶，對吧？所以，在任何時候，雖然我們並不總是公佈所有這些消息，因為有時它們並不那麼引人注目。每年都有數百家不同的客戶擴大車隊規模並與我們續約。所以，裡面融合了一些這兩種元素。現在，刮起了風。但我想說的是，考慮到網路規模以及我們與大約 800 或 900 位客戶簽訂了合同，業務活動非常活躍，幾乎是持續不斷的。該版本中我們增加了一些額外的交通屬性。

We have quite a few new refuse customers and additions coming up right now. So I don't know if there's some sea change that just happened. It's just kind of the way our cycle tends to ebb and flow. But, I do like the fact that we have a lot of activity and that makes me, makes us feel optimistic about these fleets as they continue with the program.

我們目前有不少新的垃圾處理客戶，而且還有新增客戶即將加入。所以我不知道是不是發生了翻天覆地的變化。這就是我們生理週期自然的起伏變化。但是，我很高興看到我們有很多活動，這讓我，也讓我們對這些艦隊繼續執行該計劃感到樂觀。

Great, understood. And then regarding the two larger projects that you guys have just brought on, could you offer maybe some directional thoughts on the timing of certification of environmental attributes, including rents, LCFS, and 45Z credits? I know that the LCFS backlog was quite extensive at one point, but just where is that today or where is that situated?

好的，明白了。至於你們剛啟動的兩個更大的項目，能否就環境屬性（包括租金、LCFS 和 45Z 積分）認證的時間安排提供一些方向性建議？我知道LCFS的積壓工作一度非常嚴重，但如今這些積壓工作進展如何？或者說，這些積壓工作目前處於什麼階段？

These -- let me handle it this way. And if I get too far out, someone will jump in here and save me, but. These things take a while to really get up. So there's kind of a process for them to be to get into revenue production. I mean, and we're just now kind of taking care of the commissioning. I mean, the Texas property is a few weeks ahead of the Idaho property.

這些——讓我這樣處理吧。如果我游得太遠，會有人跳進來救我，但是。這些事情需要一段時間才能真正發生。所以他們需要經歷一個過程才能開始產生收入。我的意思是，我們現在只是在進行調試工作。我的意思是，德克薩斯州的房產比愛達荷州的房產領先幾週。

After about a month of operations or so, the EPA has been pretty -- is pretty fast after two- or three weeks time, often that we're able to begin to certify to be able to get the rims. Now the LCFS, there's a provisional and another kind of certification where at some point after time we begin to participate and I get to collect at about a minus 150, right?

經過大約一個月的運營，EPA 的速度相當快——通常在兩到三週後，我們就能開始進行認證，從而獲得輪圈。現在，LCFS 有臨時認證和另一種認證，過一段時間後，我們開始參與，我可以收取大約 -150 的費用，對吧？

And then eventually, over time, we get this final processing from California, the LCFS. But that has taken on our Del Rio project, the better part of almost two years. Now we think that that backlog is gotten corrected some on. But I would say by the time you're really hitting your stride and all buttoned up with the certification process, I mean, it's the better part of 2026 for these projects before you're really done with that.

最終，隨著時間的推移，我們從加州得到了最終的處理方案，即 LCFS。但這已經耗費了我們近兩年的時間，用於我們的德爾裡奧計畫。現在我們認為積壓的問題已經得到一定程度的解決。但我想說的是，等你真正步入正軌，把認證流程全部搞定的時候，我的意思是，這些專案要到 2026 年的大部分時間才能真正完成。

Now you'll be receiving credits and being able to monetize credits but not at their full potential.

現在您將獲得積分，並且能夠將積分變現，但還不能發揮其全部潛力。

Matthew Blair, TPH.

Matthew Blair，TPH。

Thank you and good afternoon, and congrats on the strong results in the third quarter. You mentioned that you kept your 2025 EBITDA guide intact, which if I'm doing the math right, implies I think it's $8 million to $13 million for the fourth quarter, even though the fourth quarter tends to be pretty strong for Clean.

謝謝，下午好，恭喜第三季取得優異成績。您提到您維持了 2025 年的 EBITDA 指導方針不變，如果我的計算沒錯，這意味著我認為第四季度的 EBITDA 將在 800 萬美元到 1300 萬美元之間，儘管第四季度通常是 Clean 業務的強勁增長期。

So I guess how should we think about this? I think in the past you've been reluctant to change your guide to late in the year and effectively provide single quarter guidance. But I guess is it fair to think that there might be some upside to the 2025 targets or how should we think about that here?

所以我想我們該如何看待這個問題呢？我認為過去您一直不願在年底前更改業績指引，實際上只提供單季業績指引。但我認為，認為 2025 年的目標可能有一些正面意義是否合理？或者我們應該如何看待這個問題？

Probably, right? I mean, as you look at it, it looks like that we should -- we're doing well. I don't think we're in a position to really now pick it up at this point. But I think if you're looking at, you're saying, huh, these guys are going to be certainly on the top end of the guidance, or maybe a little bit beyond that. I mean, that's reasonable if you thought that way and we'll see how it performs. There's a lot of things at work here. (multiple speakers)

大概吧？我的意思是，從你的角度來看，我們似乎應該——我們做得很好。我認為我們現在還不具備真正著手處理這件事的條件。但我覺得，如果你仔細觀察，你會說，嗯，這些人肯定會達到指導標準的上限，或者可能還要略微超出這個上限。我的意思是，如果你那樣想的話，那也合情合理，我們看看它的表現如何。這裡面有很多因素在運作。（多位發言者）

And we kind of agree that at that point, maybe you're micromanaging a quarter, and I think we feel good with that range that we put out there. And where we sit right now to be comfortable with that and -- but we weren't going to micromanage it.

我們基本上同意，到了那個時候，你可能在對一個季度進行微觀管理，我認為我們對目前公佈的範圍感到滿意。我們現在所處的位置讓我們感到很舒服——但我們不會去事無鉅細地管理它。

Sounds good. And then, just looking at your RNG volume growth this year, it's been a little variable. I think in the first quarter it was down 13% year-over-year, second quarter up 8% this quarter up 3%. I guess could you help us understand like why has it been so variable? Is that due to the supply that's coming to Clean that there's some variability in those volumes or? There are other parts in this play?

聽起來不錯。然後，僅從今年的 RNG 產量成長來看，情況有點波動。我認為第一季同比下降了 13%，第二季度增長了 8%，本季增長了 3%。我想請您幫我們理解一下，為什麼它的變化如此之大？造成Clean公司供貨量波動的原因是什麼？這部戲還有其他角色嗎？

There certainly was in the first quarter, right, where there was cold spells throughout the country and all the RNG producers, the dairy producers were having execution difficulties because that cold weather. So that you saw a bit of a drop and then there was a bit of a rebound in the second quarter. We also have the biogas reform where gas was held at year end. So then that kind of floods in. It came in well.

第一季確實如此，對吧？當時全國各地都出現了寒流，所有 RNG 生產商和乳製品生產商都因為寒冷的天氣而遇到了生產困難。所以你會看到第一節有所下滑，然後第二節又有所反彈。我們還有沼氣改革，其中沼氣儲存在年底。於是，那種洪水就來了。一切順利。

In the second quarter, we had an uptick primarily from the cold weather in the first quarter. And so that was a little bit distorted in terms of its growth. And then I think the third quarter -- our third quarter here was maybe a little bit more normalized, if you will. So you've got -- yeah, so there's some variations in there.

第二季業績回升，主要是因為第一季天氣寒冷所致。因此，就其成長而言，這有點失真。然後我認為第三季度——我們這裡的第三季可能稍微正常化了一些。所以，是的，這裡面有一些變化。

Betty Zhang, Scotiabank.

Betty Zhang，加拿大豐業銀行。

Thanks. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. I first wanted to ask about -- maybe if you could give us a preliminary look at expectations for 2026? And in particular, if you could speak to volumes? Should we expect a pretty big step up given the -- your production of RNG that, that's ramping up and as well should we be accounting for the X15 gallons or is it still too early for that?

謝謝。午安.謝謝您回答我的問題。我首先想問的是——您能否給我們初步介紹一下您對 2026 年的預期？特別是，如果你能暢所欲言的話？鑑於你們的 RNG 產量正在不斷提高，我們是否應該期待產量會有相當大的提升？另外，我們是否應該考慮 X15 加侖的產量，還是現在考慮這個還為時過早？

Betty, we're not going to -- it's history is the God. We're not going to share today set our guidance for 2026. I mean, I think if you go back and listen to what I said earlier on this call, I gave about as much guidance as we're going to give on the RNG from our end, right? And so, in the scheme of things, it's a nice growth from our -- from where we've been to where we're going next year. But it's not step change type thing.

貝蒂，我們不會——歷史就是上帝。我們今天不會公佈2026年的業績指引。我的意思是，如果你回頭聽聽我之前在電話會議上說的話，我認為我已經就 RNG 方面給出了我們所能給出的指導，對吧？因此，從整體來看，從我們過去到明年要去的地方，這是一個不錯的進步。但這並不是什麼顛覆性的改變。

But go back and listen to that. I mean, basically I said, we're exiting the year around 4 to 5 to 6. And that it'll get close to doubling, right? That's from our RNG production. So that kind of gives you a thought for that. The adoption's hard to tell, Betty, and I don't have a crystal ball here and I don't -- over the years, we've always -- we've liked. We've worked hard to be in the high single-digits.

但你回去再聽一次。我的意思是，基本上我說，我們今年年底大概會是 4 到 5 到 6 歲。而且它還會接近翻一番，對吧？那是我們RNG生產過程中產生的。所以這或許能給你一些啟發。收養這件事很難說，貝蒂，我沒有水晶球，而且——多年來，我們一直——我們喜歡。我們努力將這一數字提升到個位數。

But it's just, -- I think it's too hard to tell exactly how the adoption rate for the X15 is going to be for as I sit here today for next year. Over the course of the last several years with the 9-litre at Cummins, and we have seen dramatic adoption rates over time, but it takes time.

但是，我覺得現在很難準確預測明年 X15 的普及率會是多少。在過去幾年裡，康明斯9公升引擎取得了顯著的普及，我們看到隨著時間的推移，其採用率大幅上升，但這需要時間。

And you're kind of in the early phase of that with the X15N and there's a lot of uncertainty and people with regulations in California and the Federal government, and so on. So a lot of work and yet, we feel optimistic that you're getting the right lease experiencing with it to get to increased rates of adoption.

目前 X15N 還處於早期階段，存在著許多不確定因素，例如加州和聯邦政府的法規等等。雖然做了很多工作，但我們仍然樂觀地認為，您正在獲得正確的租賃體驗，從而提高採用率。

But I guess, I'm crawfishing around , Betty. No, I'm not going to give you the exact growth number, but it'll be -- we should see increased rates of adoption in 2026, let's put it that way. But of course, you're coming off of low levels of adoption right now in the X15N.

但我猜，我是在四處打探消息，貝蒂。不，我不會告訴你確切的成長數字，但可以肯定的是——我們應該會在 2026 年看到採用率上升，就這麼說吧。當然，目前 X15N 的普及率還很低。

Okay, fair enough. For my follow-up, I wanted to ask about the fuel margin. I'm looking forward to the next several periods. Our view is that the WTI to Henry Hub spread should narrow or may narrow. So, I just wanted to get a sense of how Clean Energy is able to kind of manage the fuel margin? What leverage you guys could pull on that end.

好吧，這說得有道理。我接下來想問的是燃油利潤率的問題。我非常期待接下來的幾個階段。我們認為，WTI原油與亨利樞紐原油的價差應該會縮小，或者可能會縮小。所以，我只是想了解一下清潔能源是如何管理燃料利潤的？你們在這方面能有什麼籌碼？

Well, we have -- Bob and I watched that as well very closely, and as you know, that there's been a nice fuel margin throughout most of 2025. That's narrow. Not only is it going to narrow, it has narrowed some from kind of historical differentials of the oil and gas spread, to where you are today, right? Today, you have $4.25 gas and $60 a little more oil, so you can come down to [$15.1]. Now we tend to think, Betty, that that will be -- that mid 10s to 15, 16, 17 to 1 is probably a good spread.

嗯，我和鮑伯也密切關注著這一點，正如你所知，2025 年的大部分時間裡，燃油供應都相當充足。這個範圍太窄了。不僅價差會縮小，而且從石油和天然氣價差的歷史水準來看，價差已經縮小了一些，就像你今天看到的這樣，對吧？今天，汽油價格是 4.25 美元，機油價格是 60 美元，所以你可以降價到…[15.1 美元]貝蒂，我們現在傾向於認為，10到15、16、17比1的比例可能是比較合理的範圍。

And with that we're in -- that's good for us. That's very good for us, and we can maintain the kinds of fuel margins that we've seen this year in that. Now, what's difficult is if you have $40 oil and you have $4 on natural gas or $4.50 natural gas and $35 crude. And I guess our view is as we look out that we see the relationship between oil and natural gas kind of staying in this 15 to 1 spread where you are right today. I think that's pretty much where you're going to be.

這樣我們就成功了——這對我們來說是好事。這對我們來說非常好，我們可以保持今年以來我們所看到的燃油利潤率。現在，困難的情況是，如果石油價格為每桶 40 美元，天然氣價格為每桶 4 美元，或天然氣價格為每桶 4.50 美元，原油價格為每桶 35 美元。我想我們的觀點是，從長遠來看，石油和天然氣之間的關係將基本維持在目前 15 比 1 的價差水平，就像你現在看到的那樣。我想你大概就會到那個地步了。

I mean, I -- frankly, Betty, I think you may see oil come down some. I mean that seems to be -- that could be -- but I don't think you're really -- right now, you're seeing sort of winter pricing on the gas curve. So that gas cost should come down. And so I think you'll, as I said, I think the 15 to 1 is probably 15, 16, 1 is probably pretty good spread.

我的意思是，坦白說，貝蒂，我認為油價可能會有所下降。我的意思是，這看起來——這有可能——但我認為你現在看到的並不是真正的——你看到的是汽油價格曲線上的冬季定價。這樣一來，汽油價格應該會下降。所以我覺得，如我所說，15比1的賠率可能是15、16、1，這可能是相當不錯的賠率範圍。

Yeah, along with the other drivers that we have within our margin of RNG and LCFS pricing around that so. We don't have everything all concentrated in one. No.

是的，還有我們利潤空間內的其他驅動因素，例如 RNG 和 LCFS 定價等等。我們不可能把所有東西都集中在一個地方。不。

No. We have a lot in the West Coast. We find products of diesel. I mean, diesel today and in California is $5.25. So that has to get factored in too, right.

不。我們在西海岸有很多。我們發現了柴油產品。我的意思是，現在加州的柴油價格是每加侖5.25美元。所以這也必須考慮進去，對吧。

Dushyant Aloni, Jefferies.

杜尚特·阿洛尼，傑富瑞。

Hey guys, thanks for taking my question. I just have one quick one. I know that as you guys kind of ramp your RNG upstream next year 2026, I know there are a bunch of puts and takes 45Z, LCFS, D3. Just trying to figure out what are some of the sensitivities to think about for that segment to get to a bit positive? Any kind of thoughts, color that you can share? Is that a 2026 story, 2027? What do we need to see D3 or LCFS or 45Z to kind of get to those levels?

各位好，感謝你們回答我的問題。我還有一個簡短的問題。我知道，隨著你們在 2026 年逐步加大 RNG 的投入，我知道有很多關於 45Z、LCFS、D3 的買賣機會。我只是想弄清楚，為了讓這部分受眾群體產生一些正面的情緒，需要考慮哪些敏感因素？有什麼想法或想法可以分享嗎？這是2026年的故事，還是2027年的故事？我們需要看到 D3、LCFS 或 45Z 達到什麼水準才能達到這些目標？

Well, you got a lot of things. Let me start and then Bob where I messed up, you could find that. We do think that the LCFS program as outlined by CARB is going to lead over time over next year to a strengthened LCFS price. Now, if it's anybody's guess exactly where it is, but our partners and us, we think that '26 is going to be better than '25 and '27 is going to be better than '26, and so that should be strengthening.

嗯，你有很多東西。讓我先開始，然後鮑勃，你可以找到我出錯的地方。我們認為，加州空氣資源委員會 (CARB) 制定的低碳燃料標準 (LCFS) 計畫將在明年逐步推高低碳燃料標準 (LCFS) 的價格。現在，雖然誰也說不準具體情況，但我們和我們的合作夥伴都認為，2026 年會比 2025 年好，2027 年會比 2026 年好，所以情況應該會越來越好。

I mean, CARB believes that the LCFS by the time you get to '28, '29 could be back to where we were at $120 to $135 to $150. So, that's good. Maybe we've seen the bottom and that should be strengthening. So that's good for our business.

我的意思是，加州空氣資源委員會 (CARB) 認為，到 2028 年、2029 年，低碳燃油標準 (LCFS) 可能會回到我們之前的水平，即每加侖 120 美元到 135 美元到 150 美元。那很好。或許我們已經看到了底部，而且底部應該會走強。這對我們的業務來說是件好事。

We, as I said on our call, we have to work on what we control is, we have to get the capacity and the production levels up at the plants. And we feel confident now that we've really taken firmer control of the operations. We'll get there, but that's important to us for these things to perform correctly, is about almost as important as what's happening on the environmental pricing side. So we've got to get these things.

正如我在電話會議上所說，我們必須從我們能夠控制的方面著手，我們必須提高工廠的產能和生產水準。現在我們感到很有信心，我們已經真正牢牢掌控了營運。我們會實現的，但對我們來說，要讓這些事情正常運作，這一點至關重要，幾乎與環境定價方面發生的事情同等重要。所以我們必須弄到這些東西。

I feel very good about these two large projects that we just brought on now because they've commissioned well and I think we learned from some of our earlier projects. We've got to get them all these projects performing better. And then you can really see them perform like they should, and you will have strengthening LCFS prices over time.

我對我們剛剛承接的這兩個大項目感到非常滿意，因為它們的委託進展順利，而且我認為我們從之前的一些項目中吸取了經驗教訓。我們必須讓所有這些項目都取得更好的成績。然後你就能真正看到它們發揮應有的作用，隨著時間的推移，低碳燃料標準燃料的價格也會走強。

I think wins, I would say maybe the cautious view there is, we've seen those stabilize, and I'm not smart enough to figure out the small fineries, the small refinery exemptions factored in into the -- maybe a potential change in the RVO. Some have said that it could lead to RIN strengthening some. I don't know. But I -- we sort of like where the RIN is now because it's stabilized at $2.30 or so, and that works fine for us.

我認為，謹慎的看法是，我們已經看到這些情況趨於穩定，而我又不夠聰明，無法弄清楚那些小的精細化措施，那些小煉油廠的豁免措施是否會影響到——也許RVO會有潛在的變化。有人說這可能會導致RIN等級有所提升。我不知道。但我們——我們比較喜歡 RIN 目前的價位，因為它穩定在 2.30 美元左右，這對我們來說很合適。

So, productivity enhancements on our plants, and we do see a strengthening of the LCFS credit in the future.

因此，我們工廠的生產效率得到了提高，而且我們確實看到低碳燃料標準 (LCFS) 的積分在未來會得到加強。

And if there's -- and then the production tax credit as well 45Z, if that changes in our favor with the guidance comes out from the treasury if they -- depending on where that comes out, that could be some upside. But I think that, as you said -- I mean, these projects at least are getting through that ramp up phase and that's really -- it's kind of about that kind of timing to get through the period, which going into '26, a lot of them are, and the volume production then should show improvements there for sure.

如果——還有生產稅收抵免 45Z，如果財政部發布的指導意見對我們有利，那就取決於最終結果，這可能會帶來一些好處。但我認為，正如你所說——我的意思是，這些項目至少正在度過這個啟動階段，這真的——關鍵在於把握時機度過這段時期，到 2026 年，很多項目都做到了，屆時的批量生產肯定會有所改善。

It appears we have no further questions at this time. I will now turn the program back over to Andrew Littlefair for any additional or closing remarks.

目前看來我們沒有其他問題了。現在我將把發言權交還給安德魯·利特爾費爾，讓他作補充或總結發言。

Thank you, operator. Thank you everyone for joining us today and we look forward to filling you in on the next quarter next year. Thank you.

謝謝接線生。感謝各位今天蒞臨，我們期待明年繼續向大家報告下一季的情況。謝謝。

This does conclude today's program. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at any time.

今天的節目到此結束。感謝您的參與。您可以隨時斷開連線。