Clean Energy Fuels Corp (CLNE) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Clean Energy Fuels Fourth Quarter 2020 23 earnings conference call. At this time, all lines are in a listen only mode following the presentation, we'll conduct a question and answer session. If at any time during this call you require immediate assistance, please press star zero for the operator. This call is being recorded on Tuesday, February 27th, 2024.

下午好，女士們先生們，歡迎參加清潔能源燃料 2020 年第四季 23 財報電話會議。目前，所有線路均處於僅聽模式，在演示結束後，我們將進行問答環節。如果在通話期間您隨時需要立即協助，請按下接線員的零星鍵。此電話錄音於 2024 年 2 月 27 日星期二進行。

I will now like to turn the conference over to Robert Realen, Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

我現在將會議交給財務長 Robert Realen。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Earlier this afternoon, Clean Energy released financial results for the fourth quarter and year ending December 31st, 2023. If you did not receive the release, it is available on the Investor Relations section of the Company's website at www.cleanenergyfuels.com. The call is also being webcast. There will be a replay available on the website for 30 days before we begin, we'd like to remind you that some of the information contained in the news release and on this conference call contains forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions that are difficult to predict. Such forward-looking statements are not a guarantee of performance, and the Company's actual results could differ materially from those contained in such statements. Several factors that could cause or contribute to such differences are described in detail in the Risk Factors section of Clean Energy's Form 10 Q and also on Form 10 K.

謝謝你，接線生。今天下午早些時候，清潔能源發布了截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度和全年財務業績。如果您沒有收到該新聞稿，可以在公司網站 www.cleanenergyfuels.com 的投資者關係部分取得。此次電話會議也正在進行網路直播。在我們開始之前的 30 天內，網站上將提供重播，我們想提醒您，新聞稿和本次電話會議中包含的一些資訊包含涉及風險、不確定性和假設的前瞻性陳述這是很難預測的。此類前瞻性陳述並非績效保證，本公司的實際結果可能與此類陳述中所包含的結果有重大差異。清潔能源表格 10 Q 和表格 10 K 的風險因素部分詳細描述了可能導致或促成此類差異的幾個因素。

I will note here for 202310 K, which is due by Thursday, the 29th. We are waiting for the finalization of our internal review and an external and external audit procedures for a PSoC one report from one of our outside service providers. We just received the PSoC one report from the service provider this morning. Once we finish these procedures around the PSoC one report we will file our 10 K back to the forward-looking statements that are will appear on this conference call is forward looking statements speak only as the date of this release. The Company undertakes no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements or supply new information regarding the circumstances after the date of this release, the Company's non-GAAP EPS and adjusted EBITDA will be reviewed on this call and exclude certain expenses that the company's management does not believe are indicative of that for these core business operating results, non-GAAP financial measures should be considered in addition to results prepared in accordance with GAAP and should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to GAAP results. The directly comparable GAAP information reasons why management uses non-GAAP information, a definition of non-GAAP EPS and adjusted EBITDA. And a reconciliation between these non-GAAP and GAAP figures is provided in the Company's press release, which has been furnished to the SEC on Form 8-K today.

我將在此註明 202310 K，截止日期為 29 日星期四。我們正在等待我們的外部服務提供者之一對 PSoC one 報告的內部審查以及外部和外部審計程序的最終確定。今天早上我們剛收到服務提供者的 PSoC one 報告。一旦我們完成了 PSoC 一份報告的這些程序，我們將提交 10 K 回本次電話會議上出現的前瞻性聲明，前瞻性聲明僅在本次發布之日發表。本公司沒有義務公開更新任何前瞻性陳述或提供有關本新聞稿發布之日後情況的新信息，公司的非公認會計準則每股收益和調整後的EBITDA 將在本次電話會議上進行審查，並排除公司管理層預期的某些費用不認為這表明對於這些核心業務經營業績，除了按照 GAAP 編制的業績外，還應考慮非 GAAP 財務指標，並且不應被視為替代或優於 GAAP 業績。直接可比較的 GAAP 資訊是管理階層使用非 GAAP 資訊、非 GAAP 每股盈餘和調整後 EBITDA 的定義的原因。該公司新聞稿中提供了這些非 GAAP 和 GAAP 數據之間的調整表，該新聞稿已於今天以 8-K 表格形式提交給 SEC。

With that, I will turn the call over to our President and Chief Executive Officer, Andrew Littlefair.

接下來，我將把電話轉給我們的總裁兼執行長安德魯‧利特爾費爾 (Andrew Littlefair)。

And thank you, Bob. I know the people on this call are aware that the overall renewable energy sector has experienced market volatility in recent months. This is not new to us. We have been in business for over 26 years and a public company for over 17. Despite these external factors, the fundamentals of our business remain strong. And so does our conviction in our strategy, I think 2024 and 2025 will be very exciting years at Clean Energy and set the stage for many good years thereafter.

謝謝你，鮑伯。我知道參加這次電話會議的人都知道，近幾個月來，整個再生能源產業都經歷了市場波動。這對我們來說並不新鮮。我們已經營業超過 26 年，成為上市公司超過 17 年。儘管存在這些外部因素，我們業務的基本面依然強勁。我們對策略的信念也是如此，我認為 2024 年和 2025 年對於清潔能源來說將是非常令人興奮的年份，並為此後的許多美好年份奠定基礎。

As we start our new year, I would like to take a moment to reiterate the pillars of our business and the strategy we've put in place to grow our business. The first pillar is our belief that RNG is the most effective solution to decarbonize heavy duty transportation in North America. Rng is affordable available today and has the greatest positive impact of any form of renewable energy pipeline infrastructure to move the RNG from its source to customers is robust and in place, natural gas engine technology is currently available for regional trucks and a larger 15 liter engine for Class eight trucks that operate longer routes. The heavier loads is being added as we speak. The 15 liter engine also happens to be the largest segment within the trucking industry. Our industry's fuel infrastructure and vehicles are available today and have been proven over multiple decades. Emissions benefits of RNG. Both carbon and NOx are clear and they're supported by science and dairy. Rng is the only commercially available fuel with a negative lifecycle emissions factor.

在我們開始新的一年之際，我想花點時間重申我們的業務支柱以及我們為發展業務而製定的策略。第一個支柱是我們相信 RNG 是北美重型運輸脫碳的最有效解決方案。如今，RNG 價格實惠，並且在任何形式的可再生能源管道基礎設施中具有最大的積極影響，將RNG 從其來源轉移到客戶手中，其功能強大且到位，天然氣發動機技術目前可用於支線卡車和更大型的15 升引擎適用於運行較長路線的八級卡車。就在我們說話的時候，更重的負載正在添加中。15 升引擎也恰好是卡車運輸業中最大的細分市場。我們行業的燃料基礎設施和車輛現已投入使用，並且已經過數十年的驗證。RNG 的排放優勢。碳和氮氧化物都是透明的，並且得到了科學和乳製品的支持。Rng 是唯一具有負生命週期排放因子的商用燃料。

The second pillar and one that sets us apart from virtually any other company is that Clean Energy has the leading network of RNG distribution stations in North America, which enable our customers to achieve their low-carbon goals by supplying RNG to their fleets. Many of our stations are strategically located on important trucking corridors with public fueling access for existing and future customers. And that number is growing with the opening of stations where Amazon operates as our anchor customer. Some of our stations are customer-owned, where we provide services and suppliers.

第二個支柱，也是我們與幾乎任何其他公司不同的一個支柱，是 Clean Energy 擁有北美領先的 RNG 分銷站網絡，這使我們的客戶能夠透過向其車隊供應 RNG 來實現其低碳目標。我們的許多加油站策略性地位於重要的貨運走廊上，為現有和未來的客戶提供公共加油通道。隨著亞馬遜作為我們的主要客戶運營的站點的開設，這個數字還在不斷增長。我們的一些站點屬於客戶所有，我們在其中提供服務和供應商。

The third pillar of our business is how we work with our customers in many ways beyond just the sale of fuel. This includes education on the benefits of RNG and achieving emission goals, product procurement, operational support, station construction and servicing facility modification and navigating the complex world of sustainability reporting public policy and grant applications. Clean energy is also the largest distributor of third party RNG production to the transportation industry by our customers with RNG from over 100 different production sources. We are the largest off-taker and the business cannot be more pleased to extend our network and our service offerings to a vast group of fleets that will soon be able to adopt RNG vehicles.

我們業務的第三個支柱是我們如何以多種方式與客戶合作，而不僅僅是燃料銷售。這包括關於 RNG 的好處和實現排放目標、產品採購、營運支援、站點建設和服務設施改造以及應對永續發展報告公共政策和撥款申請的複雜世界的教育。Clean energy 也是運輸業第三方 RNG 生產的最大經銷商，我們的客戶擁有來自 100 多個不同生產來源的 RNG。我們是最大的承購商，我們非常高興能夠將我們的網路和服務擴展到大量很快就能採用 RNG 車輛的車隊。

Thanks to Cummins new X15 and engine, which is a catalyst for our growth feedback from the fleets operating the test units of this engine has been very positive. Back are as recently opened the order book for trucks equipped with the x15N. and commercial deliveries are expected in the early part of the second half of the year for OEMs have said they will follow suit and by offering the new engine in their models, the largest segment of the trucking market will soon have access to and RMG solution. And this could not come at a better time for our industry and costs. Rng as a transportation fuel is becoming more mainstream. During the last quarter, our customer base volumes grew with fleets that operate in the ports of L.A. and Long Beach like Lincoln transportation services, ecology, auto parts and cross border Express with transit agencies such as nice bus and Long Island and multiple refuse operator and hot off the press. We recently signed an agreement with SeaMex, one of the largest concrete companies in the world to fuel 40 of their cement trucks. The RNG industry recently not that significant victory with the Mexico passing legislation to status establish a low carbon fuel program. We believe this demonstrates the acceptance of these programs as a good way to address emissions issues that continue to expand. There are positive signs that other important states in the Midwest and Northeast could soon follow.

感謝康明斯新的 X15 和發動機，這是我們成長的催化劑，運行該發動機測試裝置的車隊的反饋非常積極。返回最近打開的配備 x15N 卡車的訂單簿。原始設備製造商表示，他們將效仿，透過在其車型中提供新發動機，卡車運輸市場的最大部分將很快獲得 RMG 解決方案，預計將在今年下半年早些時候進行商業交付。對於我們的行業和成本來說，這恰逢其時。Rng 作為運輸燃料變得越來越主流。在上個季度，我們的客戶群數量隨著在洛杉磯和長灘港口運營的車隊（例如林肯運輸服務、生態、汽車零件和跨境快遞）以及尼斯巴士和長島等運輸機構以及多家垃圾運營商和新聞報道熱火朝天。我們最近與世界上最大的混凝土公司之一 SeaMex 簽署了一項協議，為其 40 輛水泥卡車提供燃料。隨著墨西哥透過立法建立低碳燃料計劃，RNG 行業最近並沒有取得重大勝利。我們相信，這表明人們接受這些計劃作為解決不斷擴大的排放問題的好方法。有積極跡象表明，中西部和東北部的其他重要州也可能很快效仿。

Three years ago, we established our fourth pillar with the formation of joint ventures with BP and Total Energies to invest directly in RNG production facilities at dairies in the U.S., we did this because we believe in RNG as a long-term solution and our industry needs more RNG to meet growing demand, saw an opportunity to invest our capital at attractive returns in these projects while augmenting the third party RNG supply.

三年前，我們與BP 和Total Energies 成立了合資企業，直接投資美國乳製品廠的RNG 生產設施，建立了我們的第四個支柱。我們這樣做是因為我們相信RNG 是一個長期解決方案，我們的產業需要更多的 RNG 來滿足不斷增長的需求，我們看到了在這些專案中以有吸引力的回報投資我們的資本的機會，同時增加了第三方 RNG 的供應。

I just mentioned, and we are doing just that today, Clean Energy has invested $238 million of our capital into these joint ventures and another $35 million of our own funds in the future. Our energy dairy projects, six projects have completed construction and are operating are at or are in final commissioning. New projects are in or near construction and we continue to evaluate others in our pipeline. Seeing these projects online is no small feat fires, complex engineering, construction operations and regulatory approvals. The world needs this ultra low carbon fuel and our industry needs to produce it more efficiently. We have the right platform and the right partners to take on this challenge. And we are on the path to achieving improvements in project cost and time. Bob will go into more detail. But when these projects come online, they have a ramp up period of about nine to 12 months where the project is producing gas, but not yet monetizing federal and state environmental credits. This brought five projects coming online at the beginning of this year. This ramp up period will have a negative drag on our financials in 2024 until we can monetize the RNG produced with environmental credits used to virtually store R&G until the regulatory pathways are certified to maximize revenue from environmental credits. This will create a lag in revenue recognition while operating costs are being recognized at the time we produce the renewable gas. This is an accounting and regulatory feature of our industry that we want investors understand and should not detract from our successful completion of dairy RNG projects, all producing ultralow emissions, fuel that we supply to our customer. This is also more amplified as we are starting from zero in the upstream production of RNG. As we bring more projects online, the glaring financial startup impact should be muted by projects operating at full financial capabilities. And the first pillar of our business strategy is the fact that we have a strong balance sheet to fund our continued growth in both stations and RNG projects. In December, we announced a $400 million term loan facility with Stonepeak, $300 million was funded at close and an additional $100 million can be drawn by us for a two year commitment period. We have secured the capital needed for our next phase of growth, and we are pleased to be partnered with a well-respected infrastructure investment firm like Stonepeak, our existing station footprint is well positioned to support additional volumes from new customers. We also expect opportunities to expand our network with new stations strategically positioned for our customers like our stations, we have built to benefit Amazon over the last three to four months. We've opened two stations for heavy-duty trucks in Texas, filling California, a second one in Ohio and others around the country, bringing the total in 2023 to 18 purpose-built stations. Amazon continues also utilize over 75 other Clean Energy stations on any given day.

我剛才提到，我們今天正在這樣做，清潔能源已向這些合資企業投資了 2.38 億美元的資本，並在未來另外投資了 3500 萬美元的自有資金。在我們的能源乳品專案中，有6個專案已竣工並投入運營，已進入或正在最後調試階段。新項目正在建設中或即將建設中，我們將繼續評估管道中的其他項目。在網路上看到這些項目絕非易事，涉及火災、複雜的工程、施工作業和監管批准。世界需要這種超低碳燃料，我們的產業需要更有效地生產它。我們擁有合適的平台和合適的合作夥伴來應對這項挑戰。我們正在努力改善專案成本和時間。鮑勃將進行更詳細的介紹。但當這些項目上線時，它們有一個大約 9 到 12 個月的加速期，該項目正在生產天然氣，但尚未將聯邦和州環境信貸貨幣化。這使得今年年初有五個項目上線。這一增長期將對我們 2024 年的財務狀況產生負面影響，直到我們能夠將用於虛擬存儲 R&G 的環境信用產生的 RNG 貨幣化，直到監管途徑獲得認證，以最大限度地提高環境信用的收入。這將造成收入確認的滯後，而營運成本是在我們生產再生天然氣時確認的。這是我們行業的會計和監管特徵，我們希望投資者能夠理解，並且不應影響我們成功完成乳製品 RNG 項目，所有這些項目都生產超低排放的燃料，我們向客戶提供這種燃料。隨著我們在 RNG 上游生產中從零開始，這一點也更加放大。隨著我們將更多專案上線，顯著的財務啟動影響應該會被完全財務能力營運的專案所削弱。我們業務策略的第一個支柱是我們擁有強大的資產負債表，為我們電台和 RNG 專案的持續成長提供資金。12 月，我們宣布與 Stonepeak 提供 4 億美元的定期貸款融資，交易結束時已提供 3 億美元的資金，我們還可以在兩年的承諾期內提取額外的 1 億美元。我們已經獲得了下一階段成長所需的資金，我們很高興與像 Stonepeak 這樣受人尊敬的基礎設施投資公司合作，我們現有的車站佔地面積足以支持新客戶的額外數量。我們也期望有機會擴大我們的網絡，透過策略性地為我們的客戶定位的新站點（例如我們在過去三到四個月內為使亞馬遜受益而建立的站點）。我們在德州、加州開設了兩個重型卡車車站，在俄亥俄州和全國其他地區開設了第二個車站，到 2023 年，專用車站總數將達到 18 個。亞馬遜還在任何一天繼續使用超過 75 個其他清潔能源站。

Let me just close by repeating. We are very optimistic that over the next 12 to 24 months, you will see much of the strategy that we laid out several years ago, fall into place with the investments beginning to show the fruits of our labor at a time when more uncertainties continue to surround other alternatives, customer interest of RNG is increasing, especially with the introduction of the Cummins x 15. And in 2024, we will remain focused on the adoption of RNG fuel along with growing RNG production.

讓我重複一遍。我們非常樂觀地認為，在未來12 到24 個月內，您將看到我們幾年前製定的大部分策略都已落實到位，在更多不確定性繼續存在之際，投資開始顯現出我們的勞動成果。圍繞其他替代方案，客戶對 RNG 的興趣不斷增加，特別是隨著康明斯 x 15 的推出。到 2024 年，我們將繼續關注 RNG 燃料的採用以及 RNG 產量的成長。

Thank you.

謝謝。

For your time today. And now I'll hand the call over to Bob.

今天為您服務。現在我將把電話轉給鮑伯。

Thank you, Andrew, and good afternoon to everyone. I'll speak to our fourth quarter and year end 2022 through 23 results and then discuss our outlook for 2024.

謝謝你，安德魯，祝大家下午好。我將介紹我們 2022 年第四季和年底的 23 項業績，然後討論我們對 2024 年的展望。

For our fourth quarter and year end, results met our expectations with our annual results being within the range of our most recent guidance for the year ended 2023, GAAP net loss was $99.5 million versus our guidance of $98 million to $103 million, and our adjusted EBITDA for 2023 was $43.6 million versus our range of $42 million to $47 million. Keep in mind our annual results were significantly impacted by the $10 million in net incremental costs we incurred back in the first quarter from the historic run-up in California gas costs in January 2023 so that this $10 million gas cost anomaly, we would have more than beat our original guidance on GAAP net loss. And we would have landed in the middle of our original guidance for adjusted EBITDA, we had our full year expectations. We had to have a solid fourth quarter, which we did. We saw improved mix in our fuel gallons with more vehicles fueling and helping increase fuel margins. Our rental revenues continued to trend up with a 35% increase over our 2023 third quarter. Lcfs pricing on the other hand continued to be low, along with some delays in expected low CIR. and supply. So we actually lost some ground in the U.S. LCFS area in the fourth quarter and lastly, we were able to get some relief at our Texas LNG plant with some insurance recoveries that we had been working on in the second half of the year for reimburses for our losses through that plant being inoperable all year. These insurance recoveries helped true up the annual results for the Texas LNG plant and were recorded as a reduction in SG&A, which is largely why there is a drop in SG&A expenses in the fourth quarter, although there were also incremental costs in SG&A during the fourth quarter from some new fueling station activities. Importantly, all of these factors were considered in some form in our latest annual guidance for 2023, knowing there likely would be a mix of outcomes that help form our guidance range. We're pleased with the strong contributions of our vehicle fueling margins and glad that we're able to get some financial relief for our Texas LNG plant. The other big fourth quarter highlight was our financing transaction in December, which Andrew mentioned in his remarks after the debt financing transaction and then paying off the $150 million of prior debt and after contributing another $68 million into our dairy RNG JV with BP. in December, we ended the year with $263 million of unrestricted cash and investments. While there was another $198 million of cash down at the JV, we have with BP at the end of December, which is all earmarked for dairy projects.

對於我們第四季和年底的業績，我們的業績符合我們的預期，我們的年度業績在我們截至2023 年的最新指引範圍內，GAAP 淨虧損為9,950 萬美元，而我們的指引為9,800 萬至1.03億美元，調整後的2023 年 EBITDA 為 4,360 萬美元，而我們的範圍為 4,200 萬至 4,700 萬美元。請記住，由於2023 年1 月加州天然氣成本歷史性上漲，我們在第一季產生了1000 萬美元的淨增量成本，這對我們的年度業績產生了重大影響，因此，這1000 萬美元的天然氣成本異常，我們將有更多超過我們對 GAAP 淨虧損的初步指引。我們將達到調整後 EBITDA 的原始指導值的中間，我們有全年預期。我們必須有一個穩定的第四季度，我們做到了。我們看到燃油加侖的混合得到改善，更多車輛加油並有助於提高燃油利潤。我們的租金收入持續呈成長趨勢，較 2023 年第三季成長 35%。另一方面，LCFS 定價持續走低，預期的低 CIR 也出現了一些延遲。和供應。因此，我們實際上在第四季度在美國 LCFS 地區失去了一些基礎，最後，我們在德克薩斯州液化天然氣工廠獲得了一些救濟，我們在下半年一直在努力償還一些保險賠償我們因該工廠全年無法營運而遭受損失。這些保險賠償幫助德州液化天然氣廠實現了年度業績，並被記錄為 SG&A 減少，這在很大程度上是第四季度 SG&A 費用下降的原因，儘管第四季度 SG&A 費用也有所增加季度來自一些新的加油站活動。重要的是，我們在最新的 2023 年年度指導中以某種形式考慮了所有這些因素，因為我們知道可能會出現多種結果來幫助形成我們的指導範圍。我們對車輛燃料利潤的巨大貢獻感到高興，並很高興我們能夠為德州液化天然氣工廠獲得一些財務救濟。第四季的另一個重大亮點是我們12 月的融資交易，安德魯在債務融資交易之後的演講中提到了這一點，然後還清了之前的1.5 億美元債務，並向我們與BP 的乳製品RNG合資企業另外貢獻了6,800 萬美元。 12 月，我們在年底擁有 2.63 億美元的不受限制的現金和投資。雖然合資企業還有 1.98 億美元的現金，但我們在 12 月底與 BP 達成了協議，全部指定用於乳製品項目。

I'll now turn my attention to 2024 and our outlook. First off, one of our goals of providing our 2024 outlook is to continue providing transparency into our model and level set our outlook, particularly as we move our dairy RNG projects into production. And we know the outlook in the dairy RNG area is nuanced with the timing of producing RNG and the time involved in ramping to steady-state operation and monetizing RNG. We appreciate, however, that what we laid out for 2024 can help form your thinking about 2025 and beyond. So where we can we'll answer questions about outer years, recognizing there is still significant clarity needed around the IRA and the production tax credit, for example, seeing the actual timing around dairy RNG production and the timing of revenue recognition and how that takes shape and where and when M&A fits into the equation. As we've said all along, we're willing to consider acquiring existing projects and even pipelines that meet our investment return requirements to help accelerate building our RNG production volumes for 2024, we're providing a breakdown of our results between our legacy fuel distribution business and the results we anticipate from our dairy RNG equity method investments, and we've referred to these equity method investments in the past as RNG supply. But just to avoid any confusion, this is our RNG supply that we are producing in our dairy RNG joint ventures with BP and Total Energies and the related net economics attributed to clean energy. Nothing has changed here from how we've been presenting information and discussing our business. But just to provide further clarity since we are breaking out this information and separate tables, I'll start with the net results and then go into some of our key assumptions for our guidance on 2024 Our consolidated GAAP net loss for 2024 is estimated to be in a range of $111 million to $101 million compared to our consolidated GAAP net loss of $99.5 million in 2023. The breakdown is $93 million to $87 million. Gaap net loss from the fuel distribution business and $18 million to $14 million GAAP net losses from our dairy RNG equity method investments. Our consolidated adjusted EBITDA is estimated to be in a range of $62 million to $72 million for 2024 compared to $43.6 million for 2023. Breakdown of adjusted EBITDA for 2024 is $76 million to $82 million from the fuel distribution business compared to $50 million in 2023 and a negative $14 million to negative $10 million from our dairy RNG equity method investments compared to a negative $6.7 million for 2023. As you can see, the fuels distribution business continues its financial improvement and you see the effects of the dairy RNG joint venture has been in ramp-up mode. I think this is where we have the biggest expectation gap on how quickly projects will produce at a positive earnings level our focus in 2024 is twofold with the R&D projects secured operationally and optimize revenue, however, possible. And we do have good optimization choices with our network and even outside the network, staying on the R., the G equity method investments and looking at the ramp, we're expecting nearly 100% of the net losses to occur in the first half of 2024. And then we'll start to see the effects of monetizing the RNG in the second half of the year. For us, there's risks involved from both the amount of gas produced and when it's produced and the end demand markets from a pricing standpoint, mainly also point out that there are large that we have a large project in Idaho with around 37,000 dairy cows that is estimated to be complete from the end of 24, maybe beginning of 25. That is responsible for over half of the earnings drag in 2024 for hydro project has certain operating expenses that are occurring as we separately build out the main project. And those operating expenses are reflected in our 2024 guidance. Those are also heavier in the first half of 2024.

現在我將把注意力轉向 2024 年和我們的展望。首先，我們提供 2024 年展望的目標之一是繼續提供我們的模型的透明度並設定我們的展望，特別是在我們將乳製品 RNG 項目投入生產時。我們知道，乳製品 RNG 領域的前景與生產 RNG 的時間以及達到穩態運作和 RNG 貨幣化所需的時間有細微差別。不過，我們很高興我們為 2024 年制定的計劃可以幫助您形成對 2025 年及以後的想法。因此，我們將在能夠回答的情況下回答有關外部年份的問題，認識到 IRA 和生產稅收抵免仍然需要非常明確，例如，了解乳製品 RNG 生產的實際時間和收入確認的時間以及如何進行形狀以及併購的地點和時間。正如我們一直以來所說的，我們願意考慮收購現有項目，甚至滿足我們投資回報要求的管道，以幫助加快我們 2024 年 RNG 產量的建設，我們正在提供我們傳統燃料之間的結果細目分銷業務以及我們對乳製品RNG 權益法投資的預期結果，我們過去將這些權益法投資稱為RNG 供應。但為了避免任何混淆，這是我們在與 BP 和 Total Energies 的乳製品 RNG 合資企業中生產的 RNG 供應以及歸因於清潔能源的相關淨經濟。我們呈現資訊和討論業務的方式沒有任何改變。但為了進一步澄清，因為我們正在分解這些資訊和單獨的表格，我將從淨結果開始，然後討論我們對 2024 年指導的一些關鍵假設。我們 2024 年的綜合 GAAP 淨虧損估計為相比之下， 2023 年我們的綜合GAAP 淨虧損為9,950 萬美元。細分為 9,300 萬至 8,700 萬美元。燃料分銷業務的公認會計準則淨虧損以及乳製品 RNG 權益法投資的 1800 萬至 1400 萬美元公認會計準則淨虧損。2024 年，我們的綜合調整後 EBITDA 預計在 6,200 萬美元至 7,200 萬美元之間，而 2023 年為 4,360 萬美元。2024 年，燃料分銷業務的調整後EBITDA 細分為7,600 萬至8,200 萬美元，而2023 年為5,000 萬美元；乳製品RNG 權益法投資為負1,400 萬至負1,000 萬美元，而2023 年為負670萬美元。正如您所看到的，燃料分銷業務的財務狀況持續改善，且乳製品 RNG 合資企業的影響一直處於上升模式。我認為，這是我們對專案以多快的速度產生正收益水準的期望差距最大的地方，我們 2024 年的重點是雙重的，即確保研發專案投入運作並優化收入，但這是可能的。我們確實對我們的網絡甚至網絡外有很好的優化選擇，留在 R.、G 股權方法投資並觀察斜坡，我們預計近 100% 的淨虧損將發生在上半年2024 年。然後我們將在下半年開始看到 RNG 貨幣化的效果。對我們來說，從定價的角度來看，天然氣的產量、生產時間和最終需求市場都存在風險，主要也指出，我們在愛達荷州有一個大型項目，約有 37,000 頭乳牛，預計24月底、25年初完成。這是造成 2024 年水力發電專案獲利拖累的一半以上的原因，因為我們單獨建造主要專案時會產生某些營運費用。這些營運費用反映在我們的 2024 年指引中。2024 年上半年的情況也會更加嚴重。

Also, one other point to make is our recently announced investment in Rainier is being reflected as an adjustment out of adjusted EBITDA as we view the money that we are contributing into Rainier to be more of an investment, albeit reported as development cost in that JV.

此外，另一點需要指出的是，我們最近宣布的對Rainier 的投資被反映為調整後EBITDA 的調整，因為我們認為我們向Rainier 貢獻的資金更多地是一項投資，儘管在該合資企業中報告為開發成本。

Okay.

好的。

Now taking a step back for some of the assumptions in our 2024 guidance, we're looking at our guidance contemplates rent price staying around the $3 level, noting that we've seen that kind of bounce above and below the mark recently with a reason to be cautious here and the LCFS pricing, we have that considered remaining soft around the low $60 level, our RNG volume is estimated to be 245 million gallons or 8.4% above 2023. While this increase may seem a little light, although I'll note that we had around 13 million gallons of RNG that we dispensed in 2023 to assist some other participants in the market and meeting their demand. And we are not including a repeat of those gallons in our 2024 plan, not to say that that couldn't happen again, but we are not putting in our plan. The GAAP revenues are estimated to be in a range of $440 million to $450 million for estimating about $69 million in non-cash Amazon warrant charges for 2024, which reduces our GAAP revenue. Keep in mind here that there was about $22 million of Amazon warrant charges in our 2023 total warrant charges of $60.6 million at $22 million that won't reoccur in 2024 due to that, due to that portion of the warrant charge being fully amortized at the end of 23. Sg&a for 2024 is estimated to be in a range of $150 million to $120 million, including $80 million of stock based compensation, noting again that the Q4 run rate was low due to that LNG plant recoveries that were recorded in SG&A, our 2024 capital plan calls for $60 million of capital spending in the distribution business and $100 million in dairy RNG investments, noting again that there is $198 million in cash down at the dairy JV with BP.

現在退一步考慮我們2024 年指導中的一些假設，我們正在考慮我們的指導考慮租金價格保持在3 美元左右的水平，並指出我們最近看到了這種高於和低於該水平的反彈，這是有原因的為了謹慎對待 LCFS 定價，我們認為在 60 美元的低水平附近保持疲軟，我們的 RNG 產量預計為 2.45 億加侖，比 2023 年增長 8.4%。雖然這一增長可能看起來有點輕，但我要指出的是，我們在 2023 年分配了約 1300 萬加侖的 RNG，以幫助市場上的其他一些參與者並滿足他們的需求。我們不會在 2024 年計劃中重複這些加侖的情況，並不是說這種情況不會再次發生，但我們不會將其納入我們的計劃中。2024 年亞馬遜非現金認股權證費用預計約為 6,900 萬美元，這減少了我們的 GAAP 收入，因此 GAAP 收入預計在 4.4 億至 4.5 億美元之間。請記住，在我們2023 年總認股權證費用為6060 萬美元和2200 萬美元中，有大約2200 萬美元的亞馬遜認股權證費用在2024 年不會再次出現，因為這部分認股權證費用已2024 年 完全攤提。23 月底。2024 年的 SG&A 預計在 1.5 億至 1.2 億美元之間，包括 8000 萬美元的股票補償，再次指出，由於我們 2024 年資本計劃 SG&A 中記錄的液化天然氣工廠恢復，第四季度運行率較低呼籲在分銷業務上投入6,000 萬美元的資本支出，在乳製品RNG 上投資1 億美元，並再次指出與BP 的乳製品合資企業有1.98 億美元的現金。

Lastly, we're forecasting GAAP cash flow from operations of a range of $45 million to $55 million for 24. With that, operator, please open the call to questions.

最後，我們預測 24 的 GAAP 營運現金流將在 4,500 萬美元至 5,500 萬美元之間。那麼，接線員，請打開提問電話。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, should you have a question, please press star followed by one on your touchtone phone. If you'd like to withdraw your question, please press star two. Please let me know if you're using a speakerphone before pressing any keys. One moment, please, for your first question. Your first question comes from Magnus Gupta from UBS. Please go ahead.

謝謝。女士們先生們，如果您有疑問，請在按鍵式電話上按星號，然後再按一個。如果您想撤回問題，請按二號星星。請在按任何按鍵之前告知我您是否使用免持電話。請稍等一下，回答你的第一個問題。你的第一個問題來自瑞銀集團的馬格努斯·古普塔。請繼續。

Congrats on a good fourth quarter. My question relates to little to the guidance. I think you have a strong case why it's slightly negative in the first half and then improve. I'm just trying to understand if you continue on this run rate and the volumes to ramp, would it be fair to say that exiting 2024 for Europe through your upstream EBITDA would actually be a decent positive number and will start making a contribution in year 2025? If you could talk a little bit about that.

恭喜第四季表現出色。我的問題與指導無關。我認為你有充分的理由解釋為什麼上半場表現有些消極，然後又有所改善。我只是想了解，如果您繼續保持這種運行速度和產量增長，可以公平地說，通過上游 EBITDA 退出 2024 年歐洲實際上將是一個不錯的正數，並將在 2024 年開始做出貢獻2025 年？如果你能談談這一點的話。

I would say, Manav, that we and we're being careful here that we expect the projects that we are going online this year, but their performance will ramp up and improve throughout 24. And there is certainly a good chance that base that they can produce EBITDA up. One caveat, I'm going to put out there as you've got the production tax credits, but we're not 100% reliant on the on that PTC. But frankly, that's where some of our as it faces just in quoting numbers on this stuff because we don't have the guidance. If that guidance comes out and it's clear, then we'll be able to speak to that. But we certainly know that the product is that we've put online so far, we're happy with their operation of their producing gas. We absolutely see a path forward that they will produce the gas that we anticipate and then you can start to do the math on those projects. It's like, well if you're producing that gas.

我想說，Manav，我們在這裡非常小心，我們預計今年上線的項目，但它們的性能將在 24 小時內不斷提升和改善。他們當然很有可能提高 EBITDA。需要注意的是，我要指出的是，因為您已經獲得了生產稅收抵免，但我們並不是 100% 依賴該 PTC。但坦白說，這就是我們中的一些人在引用這些東西的數字時所面臨的問題，因為我們沒有指導。如果該指導意見出來並且很明確，那麼我們就可以對此進行討論。但我們當然知道該產品是我們迄今為止已上線的，我們對他們生產天然氣的操作感到滿意。我們絕對看到了一條前進的道路，他們將生產我們預期的天然氣，然後你就可以開始對這些項目進行數學計算。就像，如果你正在生產那種氣體。

Then if we start to look at and then of course, you have to look at kind of what your view is on LCFS and ran some we're still were soft in 24, but 25. Let's hope that that yes, who knows that could come back, but those are other factors in there. So clearly, this is a long answer to, um, I'm optimistic.

然後，如果我們開始考慮，當然，你必須看看你對 LCFS 的看法，並運行了一些，我們在 24 中仍然很軟，但在 25 中。我們希望是的，誰知道這會回來，但這些都是其他因素。很明顯，這是一個很長的答案，嗯，我很樂觀。

Perfect. We are also optimistic. My quick follow-up here is there looks like New Mexico is moving ahead with its new LCFS program. And then there is some buzz out there that the reason at the workshop of LCFI. God workshop got delayed is because they might actually even be, you know, adding adding to the sand like making this an even more stringent. So help with the overall balance of carbon credits, any view you have or anything that Byrd would really help us out? Thank you.

完美的。我們也很樂觀。我的快速跟進是，新墨西哥州似乎正在推進其新的 LCFS 計劃。然後，LCFI 研討會上出現了一些關於原因的討論。上帝研討會被推遲是因為他們實際上甚至可能，你知道，添加添加到沙子中，就像使這變得更加嚴格。那麼，請幫助碳信用額的整體平衡，您有什麼看法或伯德能真正幫助我們解決什麼問題嗎？謝謝。

Yes, Manav, I think you're exactly right on that makes my group nervous. So we've been we and the industry have been engaged with with carbon and others in state government to make them understand that it would be very important as we finalize these goals to do everything they can to tighten down the the obligation curve. And so I think there is some expectation that that's being received well, and while you know that the of the of the first release suggested that the curve would steepen or have deepened from 13% to 18.5%. There's some talk that that could go up into the end of the 20s, maybe mid 20s. So on, we believe that that the LCFS program can handle that, that there's plenty of RNG and plenty of low-carbon fuels to do that. And that this would be a good time for them to have to be aggressive. That, of course, spin-off, as you correctly point out, will begin to reduce the increase the obligation and reduce the of the oversupply of credits that are currently on the books and probably reduce that or supply faster than some people might think.

是的，馬納夫，我認為你說得對，這讓我的團隊感到緊張。因此，我們和整個產業一直在與碳和州政府的其他人接觸，讓他們明白，在我們最終確定這些目標時，盡一切努力收緊義務曲線將非常重要。因此，我認為人們預計這一點會受到很好的歡迎，雖然您知道第一個版本的 1 表示曲線會變陡或從 13% 加深到 18.5%。有傳言稱，這種情況可能會持續到 20 世紀 20 年代末，也許是 1920 年代中期。因此，我們相信 LCFS 計劃可以解決這個問題，有大量的 RNG 和低碳燃料可以做到這一點。這對他們來說是一個必須積極進取的好時機。當然，正如您正確指出的那樣，分拆將開始減少債務的增加，並減少目前帳面上信貸的過度供應，並且可能會減少或供應比某些人想像的更快。

So I think that that month delay is a bullish sign or the low carbon fuel standard and for credit pricing.

因此，我認為延遲一個月對於低碳燃料標準和信用定價來說是一個看漲訊號。

From the agri and hopefully do Mexico also kicks in and you can supply volumes over there also. Thank you. So no dynamically.

農業方面，希望墨西哥也能參與其中，你們也可以在那裡供應大量產品。謝謝。所以沒有動態。

As you know, Manoj, if I can just to embellish a little bit. We are encouraged next week, Illinois as a Senate committee hearing on the Low Carbon Fuel Standard New York's a difficult one, right? The Gulf, there's negotiations there with the governor's office as we speak, as you know, that that's been passed various houses in New York and past sessions, New Jersey things seem to be going well, Pennsylvania, there's been a bill within the house and they're talking about introducing into the Senate and Michigan. I think if you were to look for a near term state to move maybe quicker. So these are large ones, of course, is probably Illinois. So say to.

如你所知，Manoj，如果我可以稍微修飾一下的話。我們感到鼓舞，下週伊利諾伊州參議院委員會將就低碳燃料標準舉行聽證會，紐約將是一場艱難的聽證會，對吧？海灣地區，正如我們所說，那裡正在與州長辦公室進行談判，正如你所知，紐約的各個眾議院和過去的會議都通過了該法案，新澤西州的事情似乎進展順利，賓夕法尼亞州，眾議院內有一項法案，他們正在談論將其引入參議院和密西根州。我認為，如果你要尋找一個近期狀態，行動可能會更快。所以這些都是大的，當然，可能是伊利諾州。所以說。

Thank you somewhat identical lift. Thank you.

謝謝你有些相同的電梯。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Your next question comes from Eric Stine from Craig-Hallum.

您的下一個問題來自 Craig-Hallum 的 Eric Stine。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Hey, so maybe just starting with Amazon. I'm curious, I know that their truck truck fleet build-out is underway. I know they're waiting on the 15 liter as well. Just curious if you have started discussions on potentially either the next round of stations or the next supply agreement for RNG?

嘿，也許只是從亞馬遜開始。我很好奇，我知道他們的卡車車隊擴建正在進行中。我知道他們也在等待 15 公升。只是好奇你們是否已經開始討論可能的下一輪站位或 RNG 的下一個供應協議？

Well, you know, boy, if there is ever a customer that doesn't want me talking about stuff like that. It's a it's my bank, my friends at Amazon so good dry, Eric, we are trying to just be in a weak moment, but let me say this on. We obviously supply a lot of fuel to them, barring was the important thing is our NG. all over the United States program has gone very well. And I believe Amazon has indicated they have over 2,500 and 12 liter trucks operating. I don't know if they've said it or not, but I believe it's been indicated that they've actually tested a 15 liter. So I take these all as good signs. We have a we have a sales manager that that is in constant contact with the team on the logistics side and the fuel side and the truck side and Amazon. So we're in constant. And I don't want say negotiations, constant contact with how we might augment stations that we've recently built, where some of their fleet will be deployed at existing locations and new locations. So it's really all I can say right now, Eric, of course, they're one of the larger fleets. Of course, we're talking to them. We think that the program has been such that it will likely be expanded and we're trying to do everything we can to be that company that helps them expand it.

好吧，你知道，孩子，如果有顧客不希望我談論這樣的事情。這是我的銀行，我在亞馬遜的朋友們，幹得好，埃里克，我們正試圖處於弱勢時刻，但讓我繼續說下去。顯然我們為他們提供了大量的燃料，但重要的是我們的NG。整個美國的計劃都進行得非常順利。我相信亞馬遜已經表示他們有超過 2,500 輛 12 公升的卡車在運作。我不知道他們是否說過，但我相信已經表明他們已經實際測試過 15 公升。所以我認為這些都是好兆頭。我們有一位銷售經理，他與物流方面、燃料方面、卡車方面和亞馬遜的團隊保持經常聯繫。所以我們保持不變。我不想說談判，不斷接觸我們如何增強我們最近建造的車站，他們的一些車隊將部署在現有地點和新地點。所以這就是我現在能說的，埃里克，當然，他們是較大的艦隊之一。當然，我們正在與他們交談。我們認為該計劃很可能會擴展，我們正在盡一切努力成為幫助他們擴展該計劃的公司。

Understood. It was it was worth a shot on, but maybe you could articulate that and I don't know isn't good dry. I don't know if this is something you can answer, but I know that each location has the private, but also the public side. And anything you can talk about in terms of non Amazon volumes at those stations, maybe how those are trending. And I would think that those kind of like the rest of your network at this point that there's a lot of room for growth.

明白了。它值得一試，但也許你可以清楚地表達出來，我不知道這是否不好。我不知道你是否可以回答這個問題，但我知道每個地點都有私人的一面，但也有公共的一面。您可以談論這些電台的非亞馬遜銷售方面的任何內容，也許這些內容的趨勢如何。我認為這些就像你網路的其他部分一樣，目前有很大的成長空間。

But there's a lot of room. I think it would be it's early to overstate the third party volume at these at these locations, right? Are they are all beautifully situated for third party volumes, right? So they're public access and gallons a minute, plenty of volume. They're all in warehouse district. I mean, they were picked because they're great locations. Most of those we have seen some additional volume come into the San Bernardino location and a few of those in California where we have more robust or fleet activity on. But we really are counting on the 15 liter that as these these fleets that are housed in the same locations, Amazon begin to bring 15 liter into their fleets. We expect that those will avail themselves to our public assets location.

但還有很大的空間。我認為現在誇大這些地點的第三方數量還為時過早，對吧？它們對於第三方卷來說都是完美的位置嗎？所以它們是公共通道，每分鐘加侖數，容量充足。都在倉庫區。我的意思是，他們被選中是因為它們地理位置優越。我們看到其中大部分都進入了聖貝納迪諾地點，還有一些在加利福尼亞州，我們在那裡有更強勁的車隊活動。但我們確實指望 15 公升，因為這些車隊都位於相同的地點，亞馬遜開始將 15 公升引入他們的車隊。我們希望這些資源能夠利用我們的公共資產位置。

And I hope Eric that the Amazon, while it's a little different because in many ways we've built, we built from ground up terminals for Amazon, right? A lot of the existing trucking fleet and the largest fleets. They have terminals already. So it's my expectation. When we can replicate the Amazon model, it will be at locations that will be faster to market with these with these stations, but it will be essentially the same design that will be public access and many of these locations. Some of it will be behind will be private and it will be both of fast fill and time fill. But we obviously many, many in the industry are looking at those Amazon locations, but they're beautiful to see a five acre location with 220 trucks.

我希望埃里克亞馬遜，雖然它有點不同，因為在很多方面我們已經建立了，我們從頭開始為亞馬遜建立終端，對嗎？許多現有的卡車運輸車隊和最大的車隊。他們已經有終端了。所以這是我的期望。當我們可以複製亞馬遜模式時，它將出現在能夠更快地透過這些網站進行行銷的地點，但它的設計本質上將與公共訪問和許多此類地點相同。其中一些將是私人的，並且將是快速填充和時間填充。但顯然，業內很多很多人都在關注亞馬遜的這些地點，但看到佔地 5 英畝、擁有 220 輛卡車的地點真是太棒了。

You know, when I look at some of the other competing technologies, they can't park 220 trucks that take 80 gallons of trucks for 16,000 gallons a day in one location and then those trucks can go 1,000 miles or 800 miles. The other technologies aren't there yet and work, and we've done this now all over the country for ams our products.

你知道，當我看到其他一些競爭技術時，他們無法在一個地點停放 220 輛每天運載 80 加侖卡車的卡車，每天運載 16,000 加侖，然後這些卡車可以行駛 1,000 英里或 800 英里。其他技術還沒有實現並且可以工作，我們現在已經在全國範圍內為艾邁斯半導體的產品做到了這一點。

Right? So I mean, you obviously ideally longer-term would love to replicate Amazon with some of the bigger fleets. But but you don't need it right. You've got plenty of room, whether it's at the Amazon stations or other stations that you don't need that carrier, right?

正確的？所以我的意思是，從長遠來看，您顯然希望透過一些更大的車隊來複製亞馬遜。但你並不需要它。無論是亞馬遜車站還是其他不需要該承運人的車站，你都有足夠的空間，對吧？

I mean, we have 100 And I guess with this now my number has got about 118 to 120 up public truckstop locations in the country. And we have on the order of a couple of 100, maybe 250 million to 350 million gallons of excess capacity at those locations. So we are hard pressed to have to continue to build out now we'll want to, you know, for instance, my friends in Knight Swift, they have 26,000 power units. I believe they buy 5,000 units. They have terminals all over the United States, we want to put locations in. Typically these kind of fleets do about two thirds backlog, one-third on the public network. So we have a lot of the public network built for these lanes. We want it's very sticky if we're able to be the fuel provider at their terminals. And so I hope that's what we get to do. And of course, we're in discussions with a lot of those fleets that have already taken and tested the 15 liter and then some of whom have already put in orders right.

我的意思是，我們有 100 個，我想現在我的數字已經在全國有大約 118 到 120 個公共卡車停靠站。我們在這些地點有大約 100 加侖，也許是 2.5 億到 3.5 億加侖的過剩產能。所以我們現在很難繼續建造，你知道，例如，我在《Knight Swift》中的朋友，他們有 26,000 個動力單元。我相信他們購買了 5,000 件。他們在美國各地都有終端，我們希望在其中設立地點。通常，此類機隊大約有三分之二積壓，三分之一在公共網路上。所以我們為這些車道建造了許多公共網路。如果我們能夠成為他們碼頭的燃料供應商，我們希望它具有很大的黏性。所以我希望這就是我們要做的。當然，我們正在與許多已經接收並測試 15 升引擎的車隊進行討論，其中一些已經正確下訂單。

Okay. Thank you to that.

好的。謝謝你。

Your next question comes from Rob Brown from Lake Street Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

您的下一個問題來自 Lake Street Capital Markets 的 Rob Brown。請繼續。

Good afternoon and thanks for all the color, and thanks for all the color on the outlook. I just wanted to get a little bit more on the ramp in the RNG facilities that you talked a little bit about some some timing of producing gas, but holding in inventory and waiting for the credits. But just wanted to clarify what how the hub timing of the ramp kind of plays out.

下午好，感謝所有的顏色，感謝所有的外觀顏色。我只是想了解更多關於 RNG 設施的情況，您談到了一些生產天然氣的時機，但持有庫存並等待積分。但只是想澄清一下坡道的樞紐時間是如何運作的。

Yes, yes. Well, you you've got to meet I mean, essentially you're at about a six to nine month period where you're producing gas and operating, but you're not monetizing these saw the of the credits.

是的是的。好吧，你必須滿足我的意思，基本上你在大約六到九個月的時間內生產天然氣和運營，但你沒有將這些看到的信用貨幣化。

Okay. So you could you can maybe get there sooner if you but you've got to get temporary pathways. And so that's but that's about what it is. So as we have five of these coming online and five of these coming online. That's why you why we're seeing kind of the monetization of that happening toward the back end of the year because you've got to get to steady state, you've got to get steady-state operations, you know, of Yelp.

好的。所以，如果你必須走臨時通道的話，你也許可以更快到達那裡。事情就是這樣。因此，我們有五個即將上線，其中五個即將上線。這就是為什麼我們會在今年年底看到這種情況的貨幣化，因為你必須達到穩定狀態，你必須獲得穩定的運營，你知道，Yelp。

So Rob, let me help because if it's a little it'll can be a little confusing and nobody knows this. But I mean, maybe just to help everyone on the call you begin injecting we've been building this project for a year, right? You begin injecting gas. There's a commissioning which isn't like just turning on a switch, takes a little bit of time. There's a commissioning process that could take a month. You begin injecting gas and then there's a period where you get out the COB webs a little bit and you stabilize the production and you get it up to kind of a steady state. But that may take 30 to 60 days to get it to where you're really producing it at a stay at about that time.

所以羅布，讓我幫忙，因為如果有一點，可能會有點混亂，而且沒有人知道這一點。但我的意思是，也許只是為了幫助通話中的每個人開始注入，我們已經建立這個專案一年了，對吧？您開始注入氣體。調試並不像打開開關那麼簡單，需要一點時間。調試過程可能需要一個月的時間。您開始注入氣體，然後有一段時間您將 COB 網稍微取出，穩定生產並使其達到穩定狀態。但可能需要 30 到 60 天的時間才能將其送到您真正在該時間進行生產的地方。

Then you get you get you begin to keep very close track of your data and let's call it at the end of three months can be as long as four months, five months. You've got steady-state operations, you have really good data. That's when you go submitted to the EPA for their verification. Now that's quick. That could be 30 days and then you get a temporary, a provisional up a pathway at that point and you begin to I believe someone who sit around February or correct me if I'm wrong, I believe then you are able to get the rents at that point and then there's the LCFS. So I'm not there yet. And then during at that point, then you it's really after that you begin to put your obligation together for and frankly, you know, I've been very kind of hopes outspoken on this. The pathway process for the low-carbon fuel standard has been way too long. When we first started this business, it was four months, maybe a month or so longer than what the Feds were doing at the EPA stretched out now that anywhere between 12 months to 18 months. So it's ridiculous day and it's broken and they've outsourced to third parties. And there's this verification effect is not uncommon for those of us in the business have to put it in put in our application and wait six months, nothing happens and then they have the nerve to ask us to resubmit for another six month.

然後你就會開始非常密切地追蹤你的數據，我們稱之為三個月結束時可能長達四個月、五個月。您擁有穩態操作，擁有非常好的數據。屆時您將提交給美國環保署進行驗證。現在很快了。那可能是30天，然後你會得到一個臨時的，臨時的，到那時你就會開始相信，如果我錯了，有人會在二月左右坐下來糾正我，我相信然後你就能拿到租金然後就是 LCFS。所以我還沒到那裡。然後在那一刻，然後你真的在那之後你開始把你的義務放在一起，坦白說，你知道，我一直非常希望在這方面直言不諱。低碳燃料標準的製定過程太漫長了。當我們剛開始這項業務時，需要四個月，也許比聯準會在 EPA 所做的事情要長一個月左右，現在是 12 個月到 18 個月之間。所以這是荒謬的一天，它壞了，他們已經外包給第三方。這種驗證效果對於我們這些業內人士來說並不罕見，必須將其放入我們的申請中並等待六個月，沒有任何反應，然後他們有勇氣要求我們重新提交六個月。

Wait and then maybe another. So that obviously has to get fixed and reduced. And there has to be some sort of compromise here where they allow us at least to a true up and produce our gas because otherwise this is a real penalty slide, building a so like building a skyscraper and then waiting around 18 months for anybody to move it. And and now I happen to feel pretty good about the fact that we have sound is that alarm and at the highest levels of government and at car. And I'm told that they hear us now and that we're going to be working to get reduced that time. So let's let's hope that's the case, but that that whole process between when you begin to inject when you can begin to get a store, a steady-state store when you can collect rents and but the but the low-carbon fuel standards takes substantially longer and you can't split those two things. So it takes so I really am strings you. So this is what we say. It's really six to nine months process after we begin steady-state. So I wish it was a lot sooner, and I'm hopeful that it will be and I feel like it will, but that's kind of the current situation. And that's why there's this drag with these projects that have come on that will come on this year and I think is or some were modeling our Company thinking that there would be much more contribution EBITDA contribution this year from these projects. It's just not the way it works. It's not unique to us. It's towards the process.

等等，也許還有另一個。因此，這顯然必須得到解決和減少。這裡必須有某種妥協，至少讓我們能夠真正實現並生產天然氣，否則這將是真正的懲罰性滑坡，建造一座就像建造摩天大樓一樣，然後等待大約 18 個月讓任何人搬走它。現在，我碰巧對我們在政府最高層和汽車上發出警報的聲音感到非常滿意。我被告知他們現在聽到了我們的聲音，我們將努力減少那段時間。因此，讓我們希望情況確實如此，但是從你開始注入到你可以開始擁有一家商店，一個穩定狀態的商店，當你可以收取租金，但低碳燃料標準需要大量時間之間的整個過程更長，你不能把這兩件事分開。所以需要這樣我才真正串起來你。這就是我們所說的。在我們開始穩定狀態之後，這實際上是六到九個月的過程。所以我希望它能早點實現，我希望它會實現，我感覺它會實現，但這就是目前的情況。這就是為什麼這些已經開始的項目和今年將要開始的項目受到拖累，我認為我們公司正在建模，認為這些項目今年將帶來更多的 EBITDA 貢獻。這不是它的工作方式。這並不是我們所獨有的。是走向過程的。

Yes. Okay, great. Thank you for that. And then in terms of the ability to do the construction and sort of the activity in terms of cost of cost of the facility, product build and sort of the ability to we now get the get the gas you want it.

是的。好的，太好了。謝謝你。然後就建造能力和設施成本、產品建造和我們現在獲得您想要的天然氣的能力進行排序。

How is that going? Is that been in line with expectations? And is there any sort of uncertainty there?

進展如何？這符合預期嗎？那裡有任何不確定性嗎？

But I think I think, Rod, I mean, we bought this a little bit. And I think you all know, as these projects have taken, I think it's not again unique to us and I'm not trying to to a high Buy and others I mean, these projects have tended in the industry to take a little bit longer than many of us thought now not years or months and ours that we thought that these projects would conclude in the third quarter and early fourth quarter and make it they took an extra three months of really kind of commissioning and getting them all done. So the time the time to finish these projects has taken a little bit longer. And I would say they've been up a little bit. Maybe it was the pandemic. Maybe was the supply chain. We saw an increase in costs in these projects from 10% to 15% to 18%. Now that stabilize, but we also know, Rob, that as we go forward, we're going to have to bring in. And then I feel certain we have a project team underway here at Clean Energy. We need to bring in these costs, right? We need to we need to systematize and make these more be able to replicate these projects without that kind of a hard work design at each one console customized, and we're working on that now and others in the industry have brought some new designs of how they might handle and the digesters, and it's such so we need to wring out some of the pricing and bring in the time to market of the construction, the permitting these things, and then certainly the pathway to begin to produce and collect monetize the credits. But there's work to be done. Good news is we're going to need this RNG. Look, if it goes the way we think and if it goes, if you look at what Cummins is saying, they believe they'll sell about [3000 and 13515] liters in 2024. They've suggested on their materials. These are not Mine 7,000 units next year. And then they say it could go up to somewhere between 8% and 15%. Penetration of the Class A. market plus a market, by the way, is about a quarter of 1 million engines. So that could be anywhere between, you know, 15,000 to 25,000 units in the 3rd year?

但我想，羅德，我的意思是，我們買了一點。我想你們都知道，隨著這些項目的實施，我認為這對我們來說並不是獨一無二的，我並沒有試圖高價購買和其他人，我的意思是，這些項目在行業中往往需要更長的時間比我們許多人現在想像的要好幾年或幾個月，我們認為這些項目將在第三季和第四季初結束，並因此花費了額外三個月的真正調試並全部完成。所以完成這些項目的時間就稍微長了一些。我想說他們已經漲了一點。也許是因為流行病。也許是供應鏈。我們發現這些項目的成本從 10% 增加到 15% 到 18%。現在已經穩定下來了，但我們也知道，羅布，隨著我們的前進，我們將不得不引進。然後我確信我們在清潔能源有一個專案團隊正在進行中。我們需要計入這些成本，對嗎？我們需要係統化，使這些項目能夠複製這些項目，而無需在每個定制的控制台上進行艱苦的設計，我們現在正在努力，行業中的其他人已經帶來了一些新的設計他們如何處理和沼氣池，所以我們需要製定一些定價並引入建築的上市時間，允許這些事情，然後當然是開始生產和收集貨幣化的途徑學分。但還有工作要做。好消息是我們需要這個 RNG。看，如果事情按照我們的想法發展，如果你看看康明斯所說的話，他們相信他們將在 2024 年售出約 [3000 和 13515] 升。他們對他們的材料提出了建議。這些不是我明年的 7,000 台。然後他們說這個比例可能會上升到 8% 到 15% 之間。順便說一句，A級市場加上一級市場的滲透率約為100萬台引擎的四分之一。那麼第三年的銷售量可能在 15,000 到 25,000 之間？

Well, in that you need 300 million gallons, 375 million gallons of RNG. Right years, you need 110 million or 115 million. So the industry needs are and G. So you're going to need to drop down, there will be many more landfills coming on into the market as well as dairies. And the dairies in the industry has done a pretty good job at tackling some of the largest dairies, but there are many thousands of other dairies that have smaller. So you're going to have to just lower the cost to be able to tackle the smaller dairies and I feel certain that the industry will be there.

那麼，你需要 3 億加侖，即 3.75 億加侖 RNG。對的年份，你需要1.1億或1.15億。所以產業的需求是G。所以你需要下降，市場上將會有更多的垃圾掩埋場和乳製品廠。該行業的乳製品廠在應對一些最大的乳製品廠方面做得相當好，但還有成千上萬的其他乳製品廠規模較小。因此，你必須降低成本才能應付規模較小的乳製品廠，我確信這個產業將會存在。

Okay, great. Thank you, turnover. Very good color.

好的，太好了。謝謝，營業額。顏色非常好。

Your next question comes from Derrick Whitfield from Stifel. Please go ahead.

您的下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Derrick Whitfield。請繼續。

Good afternoon, Andrew, Bob and team. Thanks for your time. They're taking a slightly different approach on your guidance. Could you offer some broader parameters around the amount of cash equivalent you'll have online at the end of 2024 and 2025 projects that are clearly under contract today. I didn't get the I think I didn't give guidance. I didn't neither Sure so the question was just could you offer on some broader parameters on the amount of wet coal equivalent you guys will have online in 2024 and 2025 with the projects that are under contract?

下午好，安德魯、鮑伯和團隊。謝謝你的時間。他們對你的指導採取了略有不同的方法。您能否提供一些更廣泛的參數，圍繞 2024 年底和 2025 年底您將在線擁有的現金等價物金額，這些項目目前已明確簽訂合約。我沒有得到我認為我沒有提供指導。我也不確定，所以問題是你們能否提供一些更廣泛的參數，說明你們在 2024 年和 2025 年將在合約專案中在線獲得的濕煤當量？

Yes. So let me let me kind of total appear. So about 29,500, what cloud of what Cal equivalent of the projects we just finished about another 8,500 that are in construction fell actually more than that. It's 8,500 plus 36,000 so almost 45,000 for a total of about 75,000 well count equivalent. And our then our pipeline, which which doesn't really which is just ones that we're looking at, is about another 115,000. But you know, I think it's a good point to top of the derrick as it may be a opportune time to mention. But, you know, we all of us in the industry have these pipelines, right? And we've traded documents with farmers and we even spend money on doing some of the early design work.

是的。所以讓我讓我完全出現。因此，大約 29,500 個項目（相當於加州剛完成的項目中的 8,500 個在建項目）的下降實際上比這個數字還要多。它是 8,500 加上 36,000，所以幾乎是 45,000，總計約 75,000 個井計數當量。然後我們的管道（這實際上不是我們正在關注的管道）大約還有 115,000 個。但你知道，我認為這是到達井架頂部的好時機，因為這可能是提及的合適時機。但是，你知道，我們這個行業的所有人都有這些管道，對吧？我們與農民交換文件，甚至花錢做一些早期的設計工作。

CI. investigation and this and that but you know, we've had we've been good stewards of our money. Some of the projects that we thought we were about to put in construction we've had to slip some of those based on several factors, right, based on the based on the LCFS credit pricing, based on some of the things that we saw coming out of carb, the fact that we didn't really have clarity on the PTC., so a little bit of a glitch on the ITC. because of the pricing of the prices of equipment and about two of the projects that we were literally getting ready to go into construction on here a month ago.

CI。調查等等，但你知道，我們一直是我們資金的好管家。我們認為我們即將投入建設的一些項目，我們不得不根據幾個因素推遲其中一些項目，對吧，基於 LCFS 信貸定價，基於我們看到的一些事情由於碳水化合物，事實上我們對PTC 並沒有真正了解，所以ITC 上有點小故障。由於設備價格和大約兩個項目的定價，我們一個月前就準備在這裡施工。

As you take a look at the potential of a Greek four model, which means you might have to if it goes the way they're talking about clean out the lagoon every year that throws a loop into the economics. And so look, none of these things are a game stoppers there. Just as we look at deploying precious capital, we have to be careful and there may be a better time, there may be a bit of opportunity where we get a little better view of the economics around the PTC. and other things that we would double the trigger so that so we continue to work on a robust pipeline. We continue to look at M&A opportunities, but we take all this into and I think our shareholders want us to they want. They are in the meanwhile, we're aggregating and bringing in more R&D than anyone else in the business. But when we deploy our capital, we want to make sure it's a very solid project that meets our thresholds and our partners thresholds. And so we've dropped a couple here for a second to make sure that we like the projects and we go forward.

當你看到希臘四模式的潛力時，這意味著如果它按照他們所說的每年清理潟湖的方式發展，你可能不得不這樣做，這會為經濟帶來循環。所以看，這些都不是遊戲的阻礙因素。正如我們考慮部署寶貴的資本一樣，我們必須小心謹慎，可能會有更好的時機，也可能有一些機會讓我們更了解 PTC 周圍的經濟狀況。以及其他事情，我們將加倍觸發，以便我們繼續致力於建立一個強大的管道。我們繼續尋找併購機會，但我們將所有這些考慮在內，我認為我們的股東希望我們成為他們想要的樣子。同時，我們正在聚集並引進比業內其他任何人都多的研發力量。但是，當我們部署資本時，我們希望確保這是一個非常可靠的項目，能夠滿足我們的門檻和合作夥伴的門檻。因此，我們在這裡暫時放下了幾個項目，以確保我們喜歡這些項目並繼續前進。

That's great. And thanks for the added color. Makes complete sense, and that's what investors would want you guys to do. Maybe just take that hard. Taking part of your answer. When you look at the current M&A environment, maybe could you speak to the competitive landscape and your thoughts on what a dairy heavy RNG package might transact for on a dollars per MMBTU basis, or however you'd like to characterize it. And the reason I ask is we really haven't seen it dairy heavy packaged transact in Alaska quite a bit a while. So any color that you could offer on that would be greatly appreciated.

那太棒了。感謝您添加的顏色。完全有道理，這就是投資人希望你們做的。也許就這麼努力吧。參與您的回答。當您審視當前的併購環境時，也許您可以談談競爭格局以及您對以每 MMBTU 美元為基礎的以乳製品為主的 RNG 套餐的交易價格的看法，或者您想如何描述它。我問的原因是我們確實已經有一段時間沒有在阿拉斯加看到乳製品重包裝交易了。因此，如果您能提供任何顏色，我們將不勝感激。

I don't know that I'm going to be much help to you there, Derek, though we've looked at several. We've tried to make transactions on a couple, as you may or may not know. But I think I'd better stay away from that other than other than to say that that on. I think it's taken a while for some with maybe a maybe everyone in the industry to kind of come off of the fact that we no longer up to $200 LCFS prices and we're at $60. That makes a difference. By the way. I think it's important to note it doesn't make these projects negative. It just makes the bell that you no longer pride and it kind of makes you scratch your head a little bit on whether or not you want to embark on a 12% return, right so some of our friends in the business that packages that were maybe looking to transact still, we're looking at pricing as if we had $200 LCFS, we don't so as one of my investment banking friends says, well, they just need a little market therapy. So we'll see some of those transact at some point. And there was a time to where we were going to have year-ends, right? So a lot of people were thinking U.S. voluntary market and the CYREN.'s day, interesting that a lot most of the folks in the industry are now looking to come back to the transportation. So that puts us in a very nice position where the biggest off-taker, right. We have the big. We have the most end users, we have the most stations. And so we're talking all the suppliers in the business, and we're looking at several of these deals. So we are still very bullish on the need for RNG, optimistic about our role in it, and we'll be there kind of one is time.

德瑞克，我不知道我能幫到你什麼，儘管我們已經看過幾個了。我們嘗試過對一對夫婦進行交易，您可能知道也可能不知道。但我認為我最好遠離這個，而不是繼續說這個。我認為，對於某些人，也許是行業中的每個人來說，需要一段時間才能擺脫這樣一個事實：我們的 LCFS 價格不再高達 200 美元，而是 60 美元。這很重要。順便一提。我認為重要的是要注意它不會使這些項目變得消極。它只是讓你不再感到自豪，而且讓你有點摸不著頭腦，不知道你是否想要獲得 12% 的回報，對吧，所以我們的一些業內朋友打包了可能是仍然希望進行交易，我們正在考慮定價，就好像我們有200 美元的LCFS，我們不這樣做，正如我的一位投資銀行朋友所說，好吧，他們只需要一點市場治療。所以我們會在某個時候看到其中一些交易。有一段時間我們要過年終了，對吧？因此，許多人都在思考美國自願市場和 CYREN 的日子，有趣的是，該行業的大多數人現在都希望回到交通領域。因此，這使我們處於一個非常好的位置，成為最大的承購商，對吧。我們有大的。我們擁有最多的終端用戶，我們擁有最多的站點。因此，我們正在談論該行業的所有供應商，並且我們正在考慮其中的幾筆交易。所以我們仍然非常看好RNG的需求，對我們在其中的角色持樂觀態度，而且我們很快就會到達那裡。

Thanks for your time. I certainly appreciate the challenges with the math that you guys having to run with all of the different variables type things.

謝謝你的時間。我當然很欣賞你們必須處理所有不同變數類型的數學挑戰。

Thanks for your comments that your next question comes from Matthew Blair from TPH. Please go ahead.

感謝您的評論，您的下一個問題來自 TPH 的 Matthew Blair。請繼續。

Thank you and good afternoon, Andrew and Bob, we thought the stuff in room revenue was pretty encouraging in Q4. Could you talk about what drove that was that simply just a higher price environment on the screen? Or were you able to capture a higher percentage of that revenue relative to your RNG gallons?

謝謝你們，下午好，安德魯和鮑勃，我們認為第四季度的客房收入非常令人鼓舞。你能談談是什麼推動了這一點嗎？只是螢幕上更高的價格環境？或者，相對於您的 RNG 加侖數，您是否能夠獲得更高比例的收入？

It was mostly mostly price driven on that?

主要是價格驅動的？

I think the Okay side?

我認為好的一面？

Yes. I mean, I think there was the the take in all that was fairly steady, if you will, the minnow in the past we've seen it come down. So I think it's stabilized a little bit there.

是的。我的意思是，我認為所有這些都相當穩定，如果你願意的話，過去我們已經看到它下降了。所以我認為它已經穩定了一點。

So that was helpful.

所以這很有幫助。

Yes. Okay. And then on we've been hearing that new dairy RNG producers are having a hard time getting their gas into the California market, just simply due to how saturated is with RNG already? And does this present an opportunity for your downstream station network in California to perhaps capture a bigger pie, a piece of the pie of the economics going forward?

是的。好的。然後我們聽說新的乳製品 RNG 生產商很難將他們的天然氣進入加州市場，只是因為 RNG 已經飽和了？這是否為您在加州的下游加油站網路提供了一個機會，可以抓住更大的蛋糕，在未來的經濟中分一杯羹？

Yes. So Tony, but a massive hit, and I think it's good for us it is good or are our wind when ours comes online to all of our stations in California are about almost 150. All of our stations in California are you are 100% RNG, but only about half of it's there, right? So there's still lots of room for us for third parties and for our own.

是的。東尼，這是一個巨大的打擊，我認為這對我們有好處，這很好，或者是我們的風，當我們的電台上線時，我們在加州的所有電台大約有 150 個。我們加州所有的站都是100%RNG，但只有一半左右吧？因此，對於第三方和我們自己來說，我們仍然有很大的空間。

So that's why we're pretty bullish on the need for bringing low CI. And as I say, because we have long forward and our network supports the vehicles. Yes. So as far as the demand actually goes, right, then we've got certain certainly have capacity at the at our station and a good example.

這就是為什麼我們非常看好降低 CI 的必要性。正如我所說，因為我們長期前進並且我們的網路支援車輛。是的。因此，就實際需求而言，對吧，那麼我們的車站肯定有容量，並且有一個很好的例子。

Just the analysis sound Scott, just to bring it down, I mean, okay. So you open up a San Bernardino location for Amazon and they have 200 trucks there. They all want RNG, and we had a peak day the other day with these 15,000 gallons one night. So that if that's that is the kind of growth that I hope we will see a lot more of that that is ongoing.

只是分析聽起來斯科特，只是為了把它放下來，我的意思是，好吧。因此，您為亞馬遜在聖貝納迪諾開設了一個地點，他們在那裡有 200 輛卡車。他們都想要 RNG，前幾天我們度過了高峰，一晚就喝了 15,000 加侖。因此，如果這就是這種成長，我希望我們能看到更多這種成長正在持續。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

And your next question comes from Craig Shere from Tuohy Brothers. Please go ahead both.

您的下一個問題來自 Tuohy Brothers 的 Craig Shere。請兩人都繼續。

Thanks for taking the crush room also. I'm not sure I understand if you get a catch-up on rooms and LCFS credits. Once you finally get these certifications, will you effectively have a lot of bank credits on already executed RNG production by the end of 24 there's not a catch-up that's in play right now.

也感謝您入住暗戀室。我不確定我是否理解您是否能趕上房間和 LCFS 積分。一旦你最終獲得這些認證，你是否會在 24 年底之前有效地在已經執行的 RNG 製作中獲得大量銀行信貸，現在沒有什麼追趕的機會。

There's some discussion of that. But no, that's one of the that's one. And that's part of that whole timing thing that Rob Brian was asking about and us having to make decisions on in effect kind of leading the Gasco at a provisional. But there is discussion have a clawback, if you will. I don't know what geopolitical once you once it goes in you and you and you either transact at the provisional with ran, then it's done and you're not you're not banking any of that if we want to virtually store within virtually store, but then you're not going to you at that point then. But you can't get store the gas longer than six months as kind of the issue is the gas has got to move after six months. So you get a little bit stuck where they happen to move that if they would allow and their have a reliable claw back that would be great because you can move that gas out of provisional and then you could go back and say, okay, it's not it was negative 150. It was really a negative 270 and make up that difference.

對此有一些討論。但不，那是其中之一。這是羅布布萊恩詢問的整個時間安排問題的一部分，我們必須做出決定，實際上是暫時領先加斯科。但如果你願意的話，有討論可以收回。我不知道什麼地緣政治一旦你一旦它進入你並且你和你要么在臨時交易中與跑，然後它就完成了，你不是你不會存入任何東西，如果我們想虛擬地存儲在虛擬內商店，但那時你就不會去找你了。但是你不能將氣體儲存超過六個月，因為問題是氣體必須在六個月後移動。所以你會在他們碰巧移動的地方遇到一點困難，如果他們允許的話，並且他們有一個可靠的回爪，那就太好了，因為你可以將那些氣體移出臨時的，然後你可以回去說，好吧，這不是是負150。這實際上是一個負 270 並彌補了這個差異。

But that's not in place right now and that'll work on Craig and I think that's a reasonable, right, hey, allow us to produce it as if you were 250. I mean, we don't have to be ridiculous and then we'll come back and true it up actually 313 in our whatever it is right on.

但現在還沒有到位，這對克雷格有用，我認為這是合理的，對，嘿，讓我們像你 250 歲一樣製作它。第 313 章

Okay. And up two other quick ones here, and I'm sorry, I know you said this in your prepared comments but I'm still confused about why this big Idaho dairy project. What contributed about half of 2024 for upstream losses if it's not completed on, why would you expense are the costs of a project that's still in development.

好的。這裡還有另外兩個快速的問題，很抱歉，我知道您在準備好的評論中說過這一點，但我仍然對為什麼愛達荷州這個大型乳製品項目感到困惑。如果沒有完成，2024 年上游損失的一半左右將由仍在開發的項目的成本造成。

And then my final question is on the M&A opportunity. How do you think about hurdle rates for prospective acquisitions? And how do you handicap things like emission credit pricing, PTC regulation and other variables?

我的最後一個問題是關於併購機會。您如何看待潛在收購的最低門檻利率？您如何限制排放信用定價、PTC 監管和其他變數等因素？

Yes. Okay. Well, I'll start out on that on the Idaho. That is just it's unique to that project. That is a that project is really a massive project. It'll be well, one of the largest in the country when we're done with that. But it has some features to it that we are allowing our partners on. We are providing certain activities kind of around the around the farm in an area where we're constructing and that sort of thing that does not qualify for capitalization. So it's a little bit dumb, just kind of started that program a little bit. I mean, but it's not kind of capitalizable cost. So it's nothing that's kind of nonsensical? Or why would you do that at some point when you're doing a project that's of that magnitude there. As I look in the grand scheme of things, this is not I'm not a big material piece of that contract, but it is enough to our quarterly earnings and what we and what we put out there for the annual guidance for 24 that it was meaningful enough to just note that that relates to something that's kind of in progress. And I think the point there was really not I'm not wanting to have an impression that the five, the six projects that we'll have operating in 24 and how that can drive that kind of drag on a cycle. What why is there such a drag and then you say, Well, okay. Well, we do have a massive project where we've got some OpEx that's going on on concurrently with us building that out. So we're doing some sale.

是的。好的。好吧，我將從愛達荷號開始。這正是該項目的獨特之處。這個項目確實是一個龐大的項目。當我們完成這件事後，那就好了，成為全國最大的之一。但它有一些我們允許我們的合作夥伴使用的功能。我們正在我們正在建造的區域的農場周圍提供某些活動，以及此類不符合資本化條件的活動。所以這有點愚蠢，只是稍微啟動了該程式。我的意思是，但這不是一種可資本化的成本。所以這沒什麼荒唐的事吧？或者當你正在做一個如此規模的專案時，為什麼要在某個時候這樣做？當我從宏觀的角度來看，這並不是合約的重要組成部分，但這足以讓我們的季度收益以及我們為 24 年度指導提供的內容足夠有意義，只需指出這與正在進行的事情有關。我認為重點不是我不想留下這樣的印象：我們將在 24 小時內運營的五個、六個項目以及這將如何推動週期的這種阻力。為什麼會有這麼大的阻力，然後你說，好吧。嗯，我們確實有一個大型項目，我們在建造該項目的同時也進行了一些營運支出。所以我們正在做一些銷售。

And or that just just to clarify this, this is unique for one of we shouldn't expect something similar in 25.

或者只是為了澄清這一點，這對我們中的一個人來說是獨一無二的，我們不應該期望在 25 中出現類似的情況。

Yes, right.

是的，沒錯。

But we shouldn't expect well, we shouldn't expect we don't have another deal that's structured like this, but also we don't have another deal that is this large. I mean, is that like there's no process and there's an aggregate amount of maybe on one hand when you start talking about dealers that have that. So there are certain aspects of that deal that we factored all into how that how this economics will work. I will say that as we talked about these coming online and then when you really go into operating that with all the digesters that they have and the massive size of that bill, they'll likely be some drag from starting that project up, but it's not because of that how we're operating right now.

但我們不應該抱持很好的期望，我們不應該期望我們不會有另一筆這樣結構的交易，而且我們也不會有另一筆這麼大的交易。我的意思是，就像沒有流程一樣，當你開始談論擁有流程的經銷商時，一方面可能會有總量。因此，我們將這筆交易的某些方面全部考慮到了經濟如何運作。我想說的是，當我們談論這些項目上線時，當你真正開始使用他們擁有的所有沼氣池和巨額賬單進行操作時，它們可能會成為啟動該項目的一些阻力，但它是不是因為我們現在的運作方式。

Okay. So as Greg, I'm not going to give you a hurdle rate on M&A, and I missed the last part of the question was at PTC.

好的。因此，作為 Greg，我不會向您提供併購的最低門檻，而且我錯過了問題的最後一部分是關於 PTC 的。

Well, how do we handicap sure that you're not just dealing with the entering into one of the analyses that are being well under Item nine.

好吧，我們如何確保您不僅僅是在處理第 9 項下的一項分析。

I actually think and I want to say that I've been sort of we have sort of been right on this, I may and the capping the carb outcomes as positive for the industry. You remember the whiteboarding stuff, Craig, we've talked about a year ago, we were going to what we weren't going to have any dairy RNG was going to be excluded from the low carbon fuel grow. They weren't going to avoid and methane was out book and claim was going to crater the entire deal on and on all, none of that happens. All of that worked out well for us. All of it got grandfathered out for a long period of time. The last piece here is we're talking about is the obligation curve, and that looks like they've taken another month to steepen and some more that should work off a little bit of this bank. So, you know, just as the market started to say, well, look, there's an oversupply of credit for the next 2.5 years, I don't know, maybe not both from 18.5% to 23% or 24%, 25% that can make a material change in that. So so from a LCFS point of view, I'm feeling like we Dodge all the bullets and they've all come out rosy for the RNG business. So I like that on the PTC. And I think all of us got a little scared about the IRA because the ITC. was sort of bundled at Treasury for they disallowed some of the cleanup equipment such as you saw a week ago, they came out and said whoops, maybe we should include some of that. So that made me feel better about there was a political change going on there that it just was a complicated and it just got there was an oversight. And so when we look at the PTC., I feel like that legislation was clear that was designed to encourage low-carbon fuels. So while I fully understand them and spent time in Washington that a treasury secretary could to what he or she wants and could limit the size of that credit. I think the spirit of that was to encourage the lowest carbon fuel for transportation suitable for transportation. So I'm guessing you're going to see something that's on the higher side of I/O on the higher side of something contribution of credit per gallon tax credit per gallon. So and I'm an optimist by nature, but I'm guessing that's the way that's going to turn out.

我實際上認為並且我想說，我一直認為我們在這一點上是正確的，我可能會限制碳水化合物的結果對行業來說是積極的。你還記得白板的事情嗎，克雷格，我們一年前討論過，我們將不會有任何乳製品 RNG 將被排除在低碳燃料增長之外。他們不會避免，甲烷已經超出了規定，並聲稱這將使整個交易陷入困境，但所有這些都沒有發生。所有這些對我們來說都很順利。所有這些都被擱置了很長一段時間。我們討論的最後一部分是義務曲線，看起來他們又花了一個月的時間才變得陡峭，而且還有更多的時間應該會在這家銀行中發揮一些作用。所以，你知道，正如市場開始說，嗯，看，未來 2.5 年信貸供應過剩，我不知道，也許不是從 18.5% 到 23% 或 24%、25%可以在這方面做出重大改變。所以從 LCFS 的角度來看，我感覺我們躲開了所有的子彈，他們對 RNG 業務來說都表現得很樂觀。所以我喜歡 PTC 的這一點。我認為我們所有人都因為 ITC 而對 IRA 感到有點害怕。有點像財政部的捆綁，因為他們不允許使用一些清理設備，就像你一周前看到的那樣，他們出來說哎呀，也許我們應該包括其中一些。因此，這讓我對那裡正在發生的政治變化感覺更好，因為事情很複雜，而且只是疏忽。因此，當我們查看 PTC 時，我覺得該立法很明確，旨在鼓勵低碳燃料。因此，儘管我完全理解他們並在華盛頓待過一段時間，但財政部長可以按照他或她的意願行事，並可以限制信貸規模。我認為其精神是鼓勵使用適合運輸的最低碳燃料。因此，我猜您會看到 I/O 較高的部分，即每加侖稅收抵免的信用貢獻較高的部分。所以我本質上是一個樂觀主義者，但我猜結果就是這樣。

Got you. Thank you.

明白你了。謝謝。

Starts out in the laws of CAD and as you know, depending on where you get on carbon intensity. There have been those that have suggested it could be worth, I don't know, $6 or $7 bucks. Again, I don't want to be greedy, but we'll see where it is where it lands PETER, etc.

從 CAD 定律開始，如您所知，這取決於您對碳強度的了解。有人建議它可能值 6 美元或 7 美元，我不知道。再說一遍，我不想貪心，但我們會看看它在哪裡降落彼得等。

Your next question comes from Pavel Molchanov from Raymond James. Please go ahead.

您的下一個問題來自 Raymond James 的 Pavel Molchanov。請繼續。

Well, thank you.

嗯，謝謝。

Yes, thanks for taking the question. On back to the fuel distribution business, $60billion-- $60 million of CapEx in 2024 for that kind of a meaningful increase from last several LEVELS, correct.

是的，感謝您提出問題。回到燃料分銷業務，到 2024 年，資本支出將達到 600 億美元，即 6000 萬美元，較上幾個水平有顯著增長，這是正確的。

What was $90 million last year? Actually, we ended about $100 million. So it's come down from last year. It is absolutely it is remaining a much higher than and I will say a couple of years back. And then a little before that where we were kind of in $80 million, although we are in design $95million.

去年是 9000 萬美元嗎？事實上，我們最終結束了大約 1 億美元。所以比去年有所下降。它絕對比幾年前要高得多。在此之前，我們的投資額為 8,000 萬美元，儘管我們的設計費用為 9,500 萬美元。

Oh, yes, CRT, I mean, because where we are really we are also though, if you go back a decade, we had those three years where we ran $100 million, $85 million, $87 million as we're building out a lot of the network then we dropped it down. I think we ran about three years around $25 million, didn't like and are then then it ticked up. And then Amazon, of course, ticked it up.

哦，是的，CRT，我的意思是，因為我們實際上所處的位置，如果你回到十年前，我們在這三年裡我們運行了1 億美元、8500 萬美元、8700 萬美元，因為我們正在建設很多然後我們把它扔掉了。我想我們花了大約三年的時間，花了 2500 萬美元，不喜歡，然後價格就上漲了。當然，然後亞馬遜也採取了行動。

Yes, it remains up. I mean, look, I don't know that we've ever had a backlog as big as we have this year.

是的，它仍然存在。我的意思是，看，我不知道我們曾經有過像今年這樣大的積壓。

So there's a little bit of Canada in there.

所以那裡有一點加拿大的味道。

There's some candidate I am at because when we have a partner there.

我有一個候選人，因為我們在那裡有一個合作夥伴。

So that's our strength, right? But I mean, we're we've got like four more stations to build there and more on top of that. But so yes, it is some at least from a current run rate standpoint, we're kind of back up into that a bit higher number.

這就是我們的優勢，對嗎？但我的意思是，我們還在那裡建造了四個車站，除此之外還有更多車站。但是，是的，至少從目前的運行率角度來看，我們有點支持這個更高的數字。

Right. I mean, I think between 2017 and 2022, it was a $20 million to $30 million a year. So that correct, you the you make a good point. It's come down versus last year, but still elevated.

正確的。我的意思是，我認為從 2017 年到 2022 年，每年的支出為 2000 萬至 3000 萬美元。所以這是正確的，你說得很好。與去年相比有所下降，但仍有所上升。

So And geographically, where are you focused on on the build-out?

那麼，從地理位置上看，您主要關注哪裡的擴建？

So Canada and there's four there's there's about a handful that are fairly large in California um, and then and then there's a there's a couple of big transit transit opportunities that we've got such a you know, it's it's it's not unlike always, we are probably more refuse of projects that we've ever had that are in the pipeline right now. And some of those are with our customer money, some of those with ours. So, you know, it's kind of depends, but it's all over the country.

所以加拿大有四個，大約有幾個在加州相當大，然後有幾個大型的過境運輸機會，我們有這樣的機會，你知道，這與往常不同，我們可能更多的是我們曾經擁有過的、目前正在醞釀中的項目。其中一些是我們客戶的錢，一些是我們的。所以，你知道，這有點取決於，但全國各地都是如此。

Okay.

好的。

And then on megawatts, probably probably none in the Airport segment really that I think of on top of it.

然後就兆瓦而言，我認為最重要的是機場部分可能沒有。

Okay. And then just a kind of quick housekeeping point. When you begin to generate meaningful sales from the joint ventures, will you be publishing price times volume?

好的。然後只是一種快速的內務管理點。當您開始從合資企業中產生有意義的銷售額時，您會公佈價格乘以銷售嗎？

Yes, we'll we will we will publish volume from those in exactly how we'll put it in, I mean and prevail in some of those, we may be maintaining those stations. So we're going to count that in our service gallons. But we are going on we will begin to report on what kind of gallons are coming off of the Yum, those production facilities.

是的，我們會的，我們會以我們將如何放入的方式發布這些內容的捲，我的意思是並在其中一些內容中佔上風，我們可能會維護這些電台。所以我們將把它算在我們的服務加侖中。但我們將繼續報告百勝集團這些生產設施所生產的加侖數。

Okay, perfect. Thanks very much.

好的，完美。非常感謝。

Your next question comes from [Betty Jiang] from Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

您的下一個問題來自豐業銀行的[Betty Jiang]。請繼續。

Hi, Andrew, how binary? Thanks for a very long. Appreciate the new disclosure where we're breaking out the distribution and production and EBITDA. And I wanted to ask, could you help us with a bridge from the $50 million of EBITDA in 2023 to a midpoint of about $79 million in 24 you talk to the wins at $3 of CFS. at $60. So it seems like maybe a slight decline from the pricing we had in 2023, while auto rent is up a little bit. So is that mostly coming from higher volumes? Or I think you talked about in the past our fuel mix and just any color there?

嗨，安德魯，如何二進制？感謝了很長一段時間。感謝我們對分銷、生產和 EBITDA 進行了細分的新揭露。我想問一下，您能否幫助我們從 2023 年 5000 萬美元的 EBITDA 過渡到 24 年內約 7900 萬美元的中點，您談到的是 CFS 的勝利為 3 美元。 60 美元。因此，與 2023 年的定價相比，似乎可能略有下降，而汽車租金則略有上漲。那麼這主要是來自更高的銷售嗎？或者我認為您過去曾談論過我們的燃料混合物以及任何顏色？

Yes.

是的。

I mean, it is continued growth in vehicle fueling, yes, as well as we are fairly consistent with our assumption on the spread of diesel to natural gas or oil than natural gas. So on of the what we saw kind of going on and really kind of in the second, third and fourth quarter of 23, we see that trend. We do see that trend moving into 24.

我的意思是，這是汽車燃料的持續成長，是的，我們對柴油向天然氣或石油而非天然氣的擴散的假設相當一致。因此，根據我們在 23 年第二、第三和第四季看到的情況，我們看到了這種趨勢。我們確實看到這種趨勢正在進入 24 歲。

Very one of the things you and I have talked about this before, but one of the things, though, that I hope comes out.

這是你和我之前討論過的一件事，但也是我希望能夠實現的一件事。

Web Bob's breaking this out is I mean to see that the underlying strength of the fueling business, right? I mean, I noted today with $70 but $78 oil and $1.80 natural gas. I don't know that we've ever seen a spread further has been one, but a 43 to one difference between natural gas and oil. So the underlying our economics of our fuel and therefore the fuel margin and the discount that we can offer to our customers to help our customers and also have a nice margin ourselves has probably never been better. And I think that should come through as you look at the contribution of the fueling business distribution business this year.

Web Bob 的突破是我想看到加油業務的潛在實力，對嗎？我的意思是，我今天注意到石油價格為 70 美元，但石油價格為 78 美元，天然氣價格為 1.80 美元。我不知道我們是否見過進一步的價差，但天然氣和石油之間的差距是 43 比 1。因此，我們的燃料經濟基礎，以及我們可以向客戶提供的燃料利潤和折扣，以幫助我們的客戶，同時我們自己也擁有不錯的利潤，可能從未如此美好。我認為，當你看看今年加油業務分銷業務的貢獻時，這一點應該會顯現出來。

And you know that on our model, the design of the model is some is also helpful in any vehicles there, any vehicles that were fueling with us, but did not fuel for 12 months last year, but then they have a full 12 months this year and it kind of builds on itself like that. So that's like a built-in kind of gain that you get in addition to just adding new vehicles during the year.

你知道，在我們的模型上，模型的設計對那裡的任何車輛也有幫助，任何與我們一起加油的車輛，但去年有 12 個月沒有加油，但他們有整整 12 個月的時間年，它就是這樣建立起來的。因此，這就像除了在一年中添加新車之外您還獲得的一種內建收益。

Right, that makes sense on the following on to that, I'm wondering why the RNG volume guidance then isn't higher because like you said for those folks that maybe weren't feeling last year for the full year that they're seeing a full year and 24 on. So you're looking for about 245 million gallons and if you could maybe break that down between your own production versus third-party volumes?

是的，接下來的內容是有道理的，我想知道為什麼 RNG 的銷量指導不更高，因為就像你所說的，對於那些去年可能沒有感覺的人來說，他們看到了全年的情況整整一年又24歲了。那麼您正在尋找約 2.45 億加侖的產量，您是否可以將其細分為您自己的產量與第三方產量？

Yes. Well, I well, I don't know. I mean, part of the on a part of the new onset that you're seeing. There was some income if this is okay, but was the nuance that I spoke to in my comments right, where when I look at when we look at last year, there was 13 million gallons. It's meaningful on that. I would say it was not to say our vehicle fuel that, but we did move this RNG out to participants, and it was RNG volume. And so if you're kind of looking at a run rate from 23 up to 24, you would maybe handicap 23 and take out 13 million. So you're stepping up quite a bit from the mix of vehicle fuel is really what probably a time more difficult for you to see. But that's what's happening is now you can kind of get into that type of RNG gallons that are moving. And you really do want those to be all the way the vehicles and the growth you're seeing is that it doesn't have to be such a tremendous increase in just from just the volume number itself. It also matters, the type of volume that's going on there.

是的。好吧，我好吧，我不知道。我的意思是，你所看到的新發病的一部分。如果可以的話，會有一些收入，但我在評論中談到了細微差別，當我去年看到時，有 1300 萬加侖。這一點上是有意義的。我想說，這並不是說我們的車輛燃料，而是我們確實將這個 RNG 移交給了參與者，而且是 RNG 的數量。因此，如果您考慮從 23 到 24 的運行率，您可能會讓分 23，並拿走 1300 萬。因此，您從車輛燃料的混合中獲得了很大的進步，這對您來說可能是一個更困難的時期。但這就是正在發生的事情，現在你可以進入那種正在移動的 RNG 加侖。你確實希望這些都是車輛，而你所看到的增長是，它不必僅僅從數量本身就有如此巨大的增長。那裡發生的交易量類型也很重要。

Got it.

知道了。

And then what was the what was the second part of your question? Or was there a second part there?

那你問題的第二部分是什麼？或是還有第二部分嗎？

Yes. I was wondering if you could break out the 245 million gallons for 2024 between your own production and third party volumes?

是的。我想知道您是否可以在 2024 年將自己的產量和第三方產量之間的產量突破 2.45 億加侖？

Yes. Well, I mean, most of it. We're looking at kind of higher single well single digits on our own production in a 6 million, 7 million, something like that of the.

是的。嗯，我的意思是，大部分。我們正在尋找更高的單井單位數，我們自己的產量為 600 萬、700 萬，類似的。

Yes, and I think has done as per well, Ken, I didn't know. Those are not in the to 244 is our 245 is kind of our throughput of our G. So like I said, we are well, we will report it separately about what kind of volumes are being produced at our on all of those gallons come to us, but they're feeding into my 245 million gallons, if you will. And so yes, I guess you could say that seven of that comes from us and the rest of it comes from all the other 100 sources that we have of suppliers.

是的，我認為做得很好，肯，我不知道。這些不在 244 中，而是我們的 245 是我們 G 的吞吐量。所以就像我說的，我們很好，我們將單獨報告我們在所有這些加侖上生產的產量。我們，但如果你願意的話，它們正在註入我的2.45 億加侖。所以，是的，我想你可以說其中 7 個來自我們，其餘的來自我們擁有的所有其他 100 個供應商來源。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

And there are no further questions at this time. I will turn the call back over to Andrew Littlefair, CEO for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我將把電話轉回給執行長安德魯·利特爾費爾 (Andrew Littlefair)，他將發表結束語。

Craig, you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for joining us. We look forward to talking with you next quarter.

克雷格，你，接線員，謝謝大家加入我們。我們期待下個季度與您交談。

And ladies Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. Thank you for joining, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

女士們、女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入，您現在可以斷開線路了。謝謝。