Clean Harbors Inc (CLH) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Clean Harbors' third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加 Clean Harbors 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。

It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to your host Michael McDonald, General Counsel for Clean Harbors. Sir, the floor is yours.

現在我很高興將發言權交給主持人邁克爾麥克唐納（Michael McDonald），他是清潔港口組織的總法律顧問。先生，地板是你的了。

Thank you, Christine, and good morning, everyone. With me on today's call are our Co-Chief Executive Officers, Eric Gerstenberg; and Mike Battles, our EVP and Chief Financial Officer; Eric Dugas; and SVP and Investor Relations, Jim Buckley.

謝謝克里斯汀，大家早安。與我一起參加今天電話會議的是我們的聯合執行長 Eric Gerstenberg；以及我們的執行副總裁兼財務長 Mike Battles；艾瑞克·杜加斯；資深副總裁兼投資者關係吉姆巴克利 (Jim Buckley)。

Slides for today's call are posted on our Investor Relations website, and we invite you to follow on. We are discussing today that are not historical facts are considered forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

今天電話會議的幻燈片已發佈在我們的投資者關係網站上，我們邀請您關注。我們今天討論的不是歷史事實，而是 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》意義內的前瞻性陳述。

Participants are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these statements, which reflect management's opinions only as of today, October 30, 2024. Information on potential factors and risks that could affect our results is included in our SEC filings.

請參與者不要過度依賴這些聲明，這些聲明僅反映截至今天（2024 年 10 月 30 日）管理層的意見。有關可能影響我們結果的潛在因素和風險的資訊包含在我們向 SEC 提交的文件中。

The company undertakes no obligation to revise or publicly release the results of any revision to the statements made today other than through fundings made concerning this reporting period. Today's discussion will include references to non-GAAP measures.

除了透過與本報告期間相關的資金外，本公司沒有義務修改或公開發布對今天所做的聲明的任何修改結果。今天的討論將包括對非公認會計原則措施的提及。

Clean Harbors believes that such information provides an additional measurement and consistent historical comparison of its performance. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are available in today's news release, on our website and in the appendix of today's presentation.

Clean Harbors 認為，此類資訊提供了對其績效的額外衡量和一致的歷史比較。這些指標與最直接可比較的公認會計原則指標的調節可在今天的新聞稿、我們的網站和今天簡報的附錄中找到。

Let me turn the call over to Eric Gerstenberg. Eric?

讓我把電話轉給艾瑞克‧格斯坦伯格。艾瑞克？

Thanks, Michael. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. As we typically do, we'll begin with safety. Our people work in some of the toughest environments, but we do so in the safest possible way every single day. We began Q3 with an internal awareness push to ensure that our employees continue to prioritize safety.

謝謝，麥可。大家早安，感謝您加入我們。正如我們通常所做的那樣，我們將從安全開始。我們的員工在一些最艱苦的環境中工作，但我們每天都以盡可能安全的方式工作。我們從第三季開始就開展了內部意識宣傳活動，以確保我們的員工繼續將安全放在首位。

Our total recordable incident rate on a year-to-date basis now stands at [0.69], which reflects our position as an industry leader in safety. We are continuing to focus on our comprehensive safety programs to send our 24,000 people home uninjured every day. That above all else, represents the foundation of our company.

今年迄今為止，我們的總可記錄事故率目前為 [0.69]，這反映了我們作為安全產業領導者的地位。我們將繼續專注於全面的安全計劃，以便每天讓 24,000 名員工安全回家。最重要的是，這代表了我們公司的基礎。

Turning to our Q3 performance on slide 3. Our financial performance reflected solid year-over-year growth in both segments, but overall, it was not quite as strong as we had expected, largely result of less favorable pricing environment that affected SKSS.

轉向幻燈片 3 上我們第三季的表現。我們的財務表現反映了兩個細分市場的同比穩健增長，但總體而言，沒有我們預期的那麼強勁，這主要是由於不太有利的定價環境影響了 SKSS。

The segment saw healthy demand for both disposal and recycling services as we again experienced record volumes of containerized waste in the quarter and continued positive pricing momentum. Our field service business showed significant top line growth for the second consecutive quarter, energized by our March acquisition of HEPACO.

該細分市場對處置和回收服務的需求強勁，因為我們在本季度再次經歷了創紀錄的貨櫃廢物量以及持續的積極定價勢頭。在 3 月收購 HEPACO 的推動下，我們的現場服務業務連續第二季實現了顯著的營收成長。

In industrial services, the scope and extent of our turnaround is far this fall was less than we originally anticipated, resulting in a weaker quarter for that part of our business. Within SKSS, revenue and profits were up from a year ago but included softer-than-expected Q3 demand and pricing with more meaningful decline in September. Mike will discuss this in more detail and highlight the steps we are taking in this business.

在工業服務領域，今年秋天我們扭虧為盈的範圍和程度遠低於我們最初的預期，導致我們這部分業務的季度表現疲軟。SKSS 的營收和利潤較去年同期有所成長，但第三季的需求和定價低於預期，其中 9 月的下降幅度更大。麥克將更詳細地討論這一點，並強調我們在這項業務中採取的步驟。

As expected, corporate costs were higher in the quarter as a result of acquisitions, insurance costs and health care expense, partly offset by cost reduction efforts and lower incentive compensation.

正如預期的那樣，由於收購、保險成本和醫療保健費用，本季的企業成本較高，但部分被成本削減措施和較低的激勵薪酬所抵消。

Turning to slide 4. Adjusted EBITDA in the ES segment increased by 15% on a 13% increase in revenue, translating to a 40 basis point margin improvement. HEPACO accounted for half of the segment's $150 million revenue increase, with the remainder from organic growth, driven by higher volume and pricing of our services.

轉到投影片 4。ES 部門調整後的 EBITDA 成長了 15%，營收成長了 13%，意味著利潤率提高了 40 個基點。HEPACO 佔該部門 1.5 億美元收入成長的一半，其餘部分來自有機成長，這是由我們服務的數量和定價增加所推動的。

Q3 marked the tenth consecutive quarter of year-over-year improvement in this segment's adjusted EBITDA margin in its 12th consecutive quarter of year-over-year growth in adjusted EBITDA. Field services grew 68% on the top line, primarily reflecting the HEPACO acquisition. Higher network volumes and pricing drove an 8% increase in technical services revenue.

第三季標誌著該部門調整後 EBITDA 利潤率連續第十個季度同比改善，也是連續 12 個季度調整後 EBITDA 年成長。現場服務的收入增加了 68%，這主要反映了對 HEPACO 的收購。更高的網路容量和定價推動技術服務收入成長 8%。

Incineration utilization increased to 89% from 86%, underscoring the robust demand, strong backlog in our network. Average pricing in the incinerators rose 6% as we push through more volume. Safety-Kleen Environmental Services has grown steadily grown steadily in 2024 with revenue in this segment up 8% in Q3. Parts wash replacements were up and services reached [0.25 million] mark with other core branch offerings also performing very well.

焚燒利用率從 86% 增加至 89%，凸顯了需求強勁和網路積壓情況嚴重。隨著我們增加產量，焚燒爐的平均價格上漲了 6%。Safety-Kleen環境服務在2024年穩定成長，第三季該部門的營收成長了8%。零件清洗更換量增加，服務達到[25萬]大關，其他核心分支產品也表現良好。

Turning to slide 5. Our new state-of-the-art incinerator in Kimball is on track to begin accepting hazardous waste in November as we complete final inspections. I had the pleasure of visiting with our team at the facility last week, building a 70,000 ton incinerator is a complex project, and the team has done an outstanding job completing the largest construction project in Clean Harbors history on time.

轉到投影片 5。隨著我們完成最終檢查，我們位於金博爾的全新最先進焚化廠預計在 11 月開始接收危險廢棄物。上週我有幸與我們的團隊一起參觀了該設施，建造一座7萬噸焚燒爐是一個複雜的項目，我們的團隊出色地按時完成了清潔港歷史上最大的建設項目。

Kimball mirrors the highly successful incinerator we opened in Arkansas in 2017 and will facilitate a smoother flow through our network while addressing the market's need for more outlets for complex waste streams.

Kimball 類似於我們在 2017 年在阿肯色州開設的非常成功的焚燒廠，它將促進我們網路的流動更加順暢，同時滿足市場對複雜廢物流的更多出口的需求。

At an industry level, the recovery of economy post-COVID reshoring trends and the closure of captive incinerators such as 3M spotlighted the need for the increased capacity. The commercial launch at Kimball will help to address the glaring need for capacity in North America as it scales up over the next 12 to 18 months.

在產業層面，疫情後經濟復甦、回流趨勢以及 3M 等自備焚化廠的關閉凸顯了增加產能的需求。Kimball 的商業啟動將有助於滿足北美地區對容量的明顯需求，因為該計畫將在未來 12 至 18 個月內擴大規模。

We are confident that our incinerators and our entire disposal network will benefit from today's favorable market dynamics and future outlook, whether that is additional reshoring, government spending on programs, including the infrastructure bill, the CHIPS Act and the inflation Reduction Act were upcoming regulations in areas like PFAS.

我們相信，我們的焚化廠和整個處置網路將受益於當今有利的市場動態和未來前景，無論是額外的回流、政府在項目上的支出，包括基礎設施法案、CHIPS 法案和通貨膨脹減少法案，還是即將出台的法規。

Regarding PFAS, customers are seeking permanent solutions and assured destruction of these forever chemicals, whether a concentration form like AFFF firefighting foam or mixed contaminated soil, sludges or water. Clean Harbors offers commercially scalable options today that can provide a full solution for this emerging multibillion-dollar marketplace from testing and remediation to filtration and disposal, whether incineration or through landfill sequestration.

關於 PFAS，客戶正在尋求永久解決方案並確保銷毀這些永久化學品，無論是像 AFFF 消防泡沫這樣的濃縮形式還是混合污染的土壤、污泥或水。Clean Harbors 如今提供商業上可擴展的選項，可以為這個價值數十億美元的新興市場提供完整的解決方案，從測試和修復到過濾和處置，無論是焚燒還是透過垃圾掩埋場封存。

In November, we will advance our next round of testing to meet the EPA's more stringent emission standards for PFAS incineration, but the EPA and the DOD have committed to onsite participation that are incinerated during our scheduled testing. We are confident in the outcome of that testing. We believe the data will continue to support our previous testing results that clearly demonstrated that PFAS can be safely eliminated in our incinerators up to [six months] of destruction efficiency. We are hopeful that our testing will the regulatory framework expected to be issued next year by government agencies.

11 月，我們將推進下一輪測試，以滿足 EPA 對 PFAS 焚燒更嚴格的排放標準，但 EPA 和 DOD 已承諾在我們計劃的測試期間現場參與焚燒。我們對測試結果充滿信心。我們相信這些數據將繼續支持我們先前的測試結果，這些結果清楚地表明，PFAS 可以在我們的焚燒爐中安全消除，銷毀效率可達[六個月]。我們希望我們的測試能夠成為政府機構明年發布的監管框架。

With that, let me turn things over to Mike. Mike?

那麼，讓我把事情交給麥克。麥克風？

Thank you, Eric, and good morning, everyone. Turning to slide 6. The SKSS segments saw revenues increased 6% and EBITDA increased 32%. However, as Eric mentioned, the fiscal seasonal momentum we see in the summer months did not translate into improved demand and better base oil pricing in Q3.

謝謝你，艾瑞克，大家早安。轉到投影片 6。SKSS 部門的營收成長了 6%，EBITDA 成長了 32%。然而，正如艾瑞克所提到的，我們在夏季看到的財政季節性動能並沒有轉化為第三季需求的改善和更好的基礎油定價。

In particular, we saw softening demand in the market in September pricing significantly deteriorated as we closed out the quarter and that is carried over into Q4. With this market backdrop, we ultimately missed our expectations in this segment this quarter by about $11 million.

特別是，我們看到 9 月市場需求疲軟，隨著本季結束，定價顯著惡化，並將延續到第四季。在這種市場背景下，本季我們在這一領域的表現最終比我們的預期低了約 1100 萬美元。

The acquisition of Noble Oil helped drive waste oil collections up 17% to 69 million gallons. Average collection cost was at a small pay-for-oil level in the quarter. We are balancing our feedstock with our re-refinery need with collecting oil at the best possible price.

收購 Noble Oil 使廢油收集量增加了 17%，達到 6,900 萬加侖。本季的平均收集成本處於較低的石油支付水準。我們正在平衡原料與再煉油廠的需求，以盡可能最好的價格收集石油。

Our strategy for SKSS has been to minimize volatility from various initiatives, including selling more blended gallons, producing more Group III and capitalizing on our cash flow partnership and opportunities to differentiate our low carbon footprint products.

我們的SKSS 策略是盡量減少各種措施帶來的波動，包括銷售更多的混合加侖、生產更多的III 類產品以及利用我們的現金流合作夥伴關係和機會來使我們的低碳足跡產品脫穎而出。

In Q3, our blended volume were 21% of our total volumes, up sequentially from 19% of the total in Group II (technical difficulty) Our Group III program is moving forward, and we have selected our next re-refinery for full-time Group III production.

第三季度，我們的混合量佔總產量的21%，比第二組（技術難度）總量的19% 有所上升。廠第三組生產。

As it relates to our multiyear closed loop partnership, we're excited to support BP Castrol in this program. We are confident that our sales and market -- their sales and marketing prowess will advance the standing of more sustainable oil and large fleets. We remain optimistic about the potential of this partnership.

由於它涉及我們的多年閉環合作夥伴關係，我們很高興能夠在該計劃中支持 BP Castrol。我們相信，我們的銷售和市場—他們的銷售和行銷能力將提高更永續的石油和大型船隊的地位。我們對這種夥伴關係的潛力保持樂觀。

Turning to capital allocation on slide 7. Our strategy for the growth of the business remains driven by ROIC, and we are well positioned to execute it. Given our cash balance, low leverage and strong cash flow expected in Q4.

轉向投影片 7 上的資本配置。我們的業務成長策略仍然由投入資本回報率驅動，並且我們有能力執行該策略。鑑於我們的現金餘額、低槓桿率和預計第四季度的強勁現金流。

We continue to look for areas to invest in this business directly. We also see smaller expansion opportunities like what we're doing in the Baltimore site, which we believe we can replicate at other locations in the coming years. On the M&A front, we are happy with the early returns of the HEPACO and Noble deals we completed this year.

我們繼續尋找直接投資該業務的領域。我們也看到了較小的擴張機會，例如我們在巴爾的摩工廠所做的事情，我們相信我們可以在未來幾年在其他地點複製。在併購方面，我們對今年完成的 HEPACO 和 Noble 交易的早期回報感到高興。

Our pipeline of acquisition candidates is robust as we continue to evaluate numerous opportunities, both large and small. We are seeking acquisitions that bring permanent facilities or unique assets, drive margin improvement through economies of scale and synergies and can increase cash flow conversion and ultimately generate the best shareholder returns. We also intend to pursue our buyback plan as we effectively have for the past decade.

隨著我們繼續評估大量大大小小的機會，我們的收購候選管道非常強勁。我們正在尋求能夠帶來永久性設施或獨特資產、透過規模經濟和協同效應推動利潤率提高、能夠增加現金流轉換並最終產生最佳股東回報的收購。我們也打算像過去十年一樣實行我們的回購計劃。

Entering the final quarter of Q4 was an overall healthy demand environment in North America and a positive outlook for our ES segment. Customers have come to rely on Clean Harbors for their environmental industrial needs and opportunities to continue to grow through favorable price dynamics, including restoring, infrastructure spending, PFAS and potential captive closures.

進入第四季最後一個季度，北美的需求環境整體健康，我們的 ES 細分市場前景樂觀。客戶已經開始依賴 Clean Harbors 來滿足他們的環境工業需求和透過有利的價格動態（包括恢復、基礎設施支出、PFAS 和潛在的自保關閉）繼續增長的機會。

On the services side, we remain enthusiastic about the potential for field service growth through the addition of HEPACO and its emergency response capabilities. We expect technical services and [SK] Environmental businesses to continue to steadily grow and feed volumes into our network.

在服務方面，我們仍然對透過增加 HEPACO 及其緊急應變能力來實現現場服務成長的潛力充滿熱情。我們預計技術服務和 [SK] 環境業務將繼續穩步成長，並為我們的網路提供大量服務。

Within industrial services, we're taking actions in response to a weak fall turnaround season and expect to return to revenue growth in that business in 2025. Within SKSS, we will continue to focus on stabilizing this business given the current demand environment for base oil and blended products. We're also taking steps to reduce our cost structure, including idling our California re-refinery here in Q4.

在工業服務領域，我們正在採取行動應對疲軟的秋季週轉季節，並預計該業務將在 2025 年恢復收入成長。鑑於當前基礎油和混合產品的需求環境，在 SKSS 內部，我們將繼續致力於穩定該業務。我們也採取措施降低成本結構，包括在第四季閒置我們的加州再煉油廠。

We also plan to aggressively bring our production costs down as we manage our re-refining spread in an uncertain pricing environment. Despite some market challenges related to base oil and refining customers, we expect to end 2024 with strong momentum across our network of disposal facilities and service offerings, giving us a positive trajectory for profitable growth in 2015.

我們還計劃在不確定的定價環境中管理我們的再精煉價差，從而積極降低生產成本。儘管存在與基礎油和煉油客戶相關的一些市場挑戰，但我們預計到 2024 年底，我們的處置設施和服務產品網絡將呈現強勁勢頭，為我們在 2015 年實現盈利增長提供積極的軌跡。

With that, let me turn it over to our CFO, Eric Dugas.

接下來，讓我將其交給我們的財務長 Eric Dugas。

Thank you, Mike, and good morning, everyone. Turning to the income statement on slide 9. We delivered strong year-over-year results this quarter, achieving healthy revenue and adjusted EBITDA growth along with continued margin expansion.

謝謝你，麥克，大家早安。轉向投影片 9 上的損益表。本季我們取得了強勁的年比業績，實現了健康的收入和調整後的 EBITDA 成長以及利潤率的持續擴張。

As Eric mentioned, we had some challenges in our industrial services business, but overall demand trends for our core business lines continue to be strong. Within SKSS, we were disappointed that the promising Q2 we delivered did not carry over into Q3 as demand began to wane in the typical seasonal strength in summer pricing deteriorated, particularly late in the quarter.

正如艾瑞克所提到的，我們的工業服務業務面臨一些挑戰，但我們核心業務線的整體需求趨勢仍然強勁。在 SKSS 內部，我們感到失望的是，我們交付的第二季度的前景並沒有延續到第三季度，因為夏季價格惡化，特別是在本季度末，典型的季節性強度導致需求開始減弱。

On the topline, similar to Q2, we achieved a good mix of organic and acquisition-related growth as we grew total revenues by 12% or more than $160 million year-over-year. Adjusted EBITDA of $302 million was up nearly $47 million from a year ago. Our adjusted EBITDA margin in the quarter was 19.7%, up 100 basis points year-over-year as margin improved in both operating segments.

在營收方面，與第二季類似，我們實現了有機成長和收購相關成長的良好結合，總收入年增了 12%，即超過 1.6 億美元。調整後 EBITDA 為 3.02 億美元，比去年同期增加近 4,700 萬美元。由於兩個營運部門的利潤率均有所改善，本季調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 19.7%，較去年同期成長 100 個基點。

The continued margin expansion reflects the leverage in the business given the higher revenues generated from our disposal network and SK branch as we again received a record level of drum waste into our facilities as well as the sizable growth in field services that Eric noted.

利潤率的持續擴張反映了業務的槓桿作用，因為我們的設施中再次收到創紀錄水平的桶廢物，以及埃里克指出的現場服務的大幅增長，因此我們的處置網絡和SK 分支機構產生了更高的收入。

SG&A expense as a percentage of revenue was 11.6% in Q3, which is 90 basis points better than the year ago period. Combined with our revenue growth, the primary factors behind this improvement on a percentage basis for synergies from acquired businesses and lower incentive compensation.

第三季 SG&A 費用佔營收的百分比為 11.6%，比去年同期高出 90 個基點。結合我們的收入成長，這種改善背後的主要因素是收購業務的綜效和較低的激勵薪酬。

For full year 2024, we continue to anticipate our SG&A expense as a percentage of revenue to be in the mid 12% range. Depreciation and amortization in Q3 came in as expected at $100 million, up from a year ago due to acquisitions.

對於 2024 年全年，我們繼續預期 SG&A 費用將佔收入的百分比在 12% 左右。由於收購，第三季的折舊和攤提達到預期的 1 億美元，高於去年同期。

For 2024, we continue to expect depreciation and amortization in the range of $395 million to $405 million. Income from operations in Q3 as $192.3 million, up 25% from the prior year. Q3 net income increased 26% versus the prior year to $115.2 million, resulting in an earnings per share of $2.12.

2024 年，我們預計折舊和攤提將在 3.95 億美元至 4.05 億美元之間。第三季營運收入為 1.923 億美元，比上年成長 25%。第三季淨利比上年成長 26%，達到 1.152 億美元，每股收益為 2.12 美元。

Turning to slide 10 and the balance sheet. Cash and short-term marketable securities at quarter end were $595 million, up $100 million from the end of Q2 and $44 million since the year began. Our receivables increased by $28 million in Q3 sequentially from Q2 and after growing $186 million in the first half of the year, largely due to acquisitions.

轉向投影片 10 和資產負債表。季末現金和短期有價證券為 5.95 億美元，比第二季末增加 1 億美元，比年初增加 4,400 萬美元。我們的應收帳款在上半年增加了 1.86 億美元之後，第三季比第二季連續成長了 2,800 萬美元，這主要是由於收購。

We have expected to cut into that balance in Q3 rather than increasing it. but the delayed transition of HEPACO onto our billing system added to our receivables balance. The HEPACO integration onto our billing platform is now complete. However, the transition and associated billing delays will impact the timing and extensive cash flows fiscal year 2024.

我們預計將在第三季削減而不是增加這一餘額。但 HEPACO 延遲過渡到我們的計費系統增加了我們的應收帳款餘額。HEPACO 與我們的計費平台的整合現已完成。然而，過渡和相關的計費延遲將影響 2024 財年的時間表和廣泛的現金流。

Another item on our balance sheet, I wanted to speak to is our buildup in inventories, particularly as it relates to SKSS. Since the start of the year, overall, SKSS oil inventories have increased [$31 million], with [$10 million] of the increase occurring in Q3. As demand has softened and volumes sold are less than what was expected.

我想談談我們資產負債表上的另一個項目是我們的庫存積累，特別是與 SKSS 相關的庫存。自今年年初以來，總體而言，SKSS 石油庫存增加了 [3,100 萬美元]，其中 [1,000 萬美元] 的增加發生在第三季。由於需求疲軟，銷售量低於預期。

Given this inventory growth and expectations looking forward, we made the decision for idle production in our California re-refinery as Mike referenced. We expect our inventory balance in this business to be reduced in the quarters ahead as we work off the excess levels currently on hand.

鑑於庫存成長和未來預期，我們決定在加州再煉油廠閒置生產，正如麥克所提到的。我們預計，隨著我們消除目前的過剩水平，未來幾季我們該業務的庫存餘額將減少。

We ended Q3 with just under $2.79 billion in debt. The increase you see on the slide since the beginning of the year reflects the $500 million in incremental term loan we issued to finance HEPACO and Noble acquisitions earlier this year.

第三季結束時，我們的債務略低於 27.9 億美元。自今年年初以來，您在幻燈片中看到的成長反映了我們今年稍早為資助 HEPACO 和 Noble 收購而發放的 5 億美元增量定期貸款。

Our balance sheet remains very healthy. Our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio was 2.1 times at quarter end with no material debt amounts coming due until 2027. We also announced in mid October that we repriced our term loan, which will result in approximately $2 million in annual interest savings going forward. Our overall interest rate at quarter end was 5.65%.

我們的資產負債表仍然非常健康。截至季末，我們的淨負債與 EBITDA 比率為 2.1 倍，直到 2027 年才到期。我們也在 10 月中旬宣布重新定價定期貸款，這將導致未來每年節省約 200 萬美元的利息。季度末我們的整體利率為 5.65%。

Turning to cash flows on slide 11. Net cash from operating activities in Q3 was $239 million, up 9% from prior year. CapEx, net of disposals was $94.7 million, down from prior year and in line with our expectations. That number includes $20 million in Q3 spend on the new Kimball incinerator to complete its construction for commercial launch.

轉向幻燈片 11 上的現金流。第三季經營活動產生的淨現金為 2.39 億美元，比去年同期成長 9%。扣除處分後的資本支出為 9,470 萬美元，低於上年，符合我們的預期。這一數字包括第三季在新金博爾焚化爐上花費的 2,000 萬美元，以完成其商業啟動的建設。

Total year-to-date spend now sits at just over $60 million for Kimball. For the quarter, adjusted free cash flow was $144.5 million, which was $30 million ahead of prior year, but fell short of our expectations due to working capital impacts related to the [unbilled AR] and increased inventory levels in SKSS that I mentioned a moment ago.

Kimball 今年迄今為止的總支出剛剛超過 6000 萬美元。本季度，調整後的自由現金流為1.445 億美元，比上年同期增加3000 萬美元，但由於與[未開票AR] 相關的營運資本影響以及我剛才提到的SKSS 庫存水平增加，未達到我們的預期前。

For 2024, we continue to expect our net CapEx to be in the range of $400 million to $430 million. This range includes the spend related to Kimball and $20 million for the purchase and expansion of the Baltimore facility. During Q3, we bought back 85,000 shares of stock at an average price of $236 a share for a total of $20 million, bringing our year-to-date total to $30 million.

2024 年，我們仍然預期淨資本支出將在 4 億至 4.3 億美元之間。該範圍包括與 Kimball 相關的支出以及用於購買和擴建巴爾的摩工廠的 2000 萬美元。第三季度，我們以每股 236 美元的平均價格回購了 85,000 股股票，總金額為 2,000 萬美元，使年初至今的總金額達到 3,000 萬美元。

Moving to slide 12. Based on our Q3 results and market conditions, we are revising our 2024 adjusted EBITDA guidance to a midpoint of $1.11 billion, which represents a 10% increase from 2023. This guidance assumes approximately $40 million in contributions for HEPACO and approximately $5 million from Noble Oil.

轉到投影片 12。根據我們第三季的業績和市場狀況，我們將 2024 年調整後 EBITDA 指引修訂為 11.1 億美元的中位數，較 2023 年成長 10%。本指南假設 HEPACO 捐款約 4,000 萬美元，Noble Oil 捐款約 500 萬美元。

We now expect our full year 2024 adjusted EBITDA guidance to translate to our segments as follows. In environmental services, we now expect adjusted EBITDA in 2024 at the midpoint of our guidance to increase 13% to 15% from 2023. Most of our core ES businesses will close out the year strong with healthy volume growth.

我們現在預計 2024 年全年調整後 EBITDA 指引將轉化為我們的細分市場，如下所示。在環境服務方面，我們目前預計 2024 年調整後 EBITDA（以我們指導方針的中點計算）將比 2023 年增加 13% 至 15%。我們的大部分核心 ES 業務將以健康的銷售成長結束今年的強勁表現。

Our SKSS based on the current market conditions around lubricant and base oil demand corresponding pricing, we are now guiding full year 2024 adjusted EBITDA to decrease 12% to 14% from 2023 at the midpoint of our guidance. While we have some promising initiatives underway and are taking the actions that Mike highlighted, we expect a softer demand and pricing pressures we experienced in Q3 to continue into the seasonally weaker fourth quarter.

我們的 SKSS 是基於當前潤滑油和基礎油需求相應定價的市場狀況，我們現在指導 2024 年全年調整後 EBITDA 比 2023 年指導中點下降 12% 至 14%。雖然我們正在採取一些有希望的舉措，並正在採取麥克強調的行動，但我們預計第三季經歷的需求疲軟和定價壓力將持續到季節性疲軟的第四季。

Within corporate, at the midpoint of our guide, we expect negative adjusted EBITDA to be up 12% to 13% compared to 2023. The year-over-year increase in corporate primarily relates to costs related to the acquisitions and insurance costs.

在企業內部，在我們指南的中點，我們預期負調整後的 EBITDA 將比 2023 年成長 12% 至 13%。公司業務的年成長主要與收購和保險成本相關的成本有關。

For 2024, we are lowering our adjusted free cash flow expectations for the year based primarily on two factors, the higher inventories we are carrying in our SKSS business and delayed timing of AR cash generation stemming from the integration of HEPACO into our billing system.

對於 2024 年，我們降低了當年調整後的自由現金流預期，主要基於兩個因素：我們 SKSS 業務中的庫存較高，以及由於 HEPACO 整合到我們的計費系統中而導致 AR 現金產生時間延遲。

In both instances, we are confident that these impacts are temporary in just a matter of timing. We estimate the impact of these issues and this year's cash flows to be worth approximately $70 million. And as a result, we are lowering our 2024 free cash flow range to $280 million to $320 million or a midpoint of $300 million.

在這兩種情況下，我們相信這些影響都是暫時的，只是時間問題。我們估計這些問題和今年現金流的影響價值約為 7,000 萬美元。因此，我們將 2024 年自由現金流範圍降低至 2.8 億美元至 3.2 億美元，即 3 億美元的中位數。

In closing, the ES segment continues to experience positive market dynamics that drive waste into our network, and we are on the cusp of Kimball coming online. Our SK branch business is performing well as is our field services business with the addition of HEPACO. While the fall turnaround season is limiting the growth in industrial services to close out this year, we believe we are well positioned in that business as the industry leader.

最後，ES 細分市場繼續經歷積極的市場動態，將廢物帶入我們的網絡，而我們正處於 Kimball 上線的風口浪尖。我們的 SK 分公司業務表現良好，加上 HEPACO 後，我們的現場服務業務也表現良好。儘管秋季週轉季節限制了今年工業服務業的成長，但我們相信，我們在該業務中處於行業領先地位。

For SKSS, we remain focused on stabilizing that business after another challenging year and having the right long-term strategy in place. Overall, 2024 will be a year of strong profitable growth, and we are optimistic about our prospects for continued growth into 2025.

對於 SKSS，我們仍然致力於在另一個充滿挑戰的一年後穩定業務，並制定正確的長期策略。整體而言，2024年將是獲利強勁成長的一年，我們對2025年持續成長的前景感到樂觀。

And with that, Christine, please open the call up for questions.

克里斯汀，請打開電話提問。

(Operator Instructions) Tyler Brown, Raymond James.

（操作員說明）泰勒·布朗，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Hey, good morning guys. So can we first just talk about Q3, the implied Q4 guide? I mean both seen weaker, but it feels to me that the culprit here is really SKSS. I mean it seems that the core ES business is actually tracking almost get on with your expectations, SKSS is weaker, you have weakness in base oil markets. I mean is that a basic fair characterization? Is the entire kind of guide cut, if you will, just basically on SKSS.

嘿，早上好，夥計們。那我們可以先談談 Q3，也就是隱含的 Q4 指南嗎？我的意思是兩者都顯得較弱，但在我看來，罪魁禍首確實是 SKSS。我的意思是，核心 ES 業務實際上幾乎符合您的預期，SKSS 較弱，基礎油市場也較弱。我的意思是這是一個基本的公平表徵嗎？如果你願意的話，是整個類型的引導剪輯，基本上只是在 SKSS 上。

Yeah, Tyler. I'll start. This is Eric. Absolutely. What you just said is consistent with the way we looked at the quarter. The ES business across the board was very strong. Volumes into our network of containers, the needs from those customers, the SK Environmental business continued to really meet our expectations and growth both from a margin and a volume standpoint.

是的，泰勒。我開始吧。這是埃里克。絕對地。您剛才所說的與我們對本季的看法是一致的。ES 業務整體表現非常強勁。我們的貨櫃網路的數量、這些客戶的需求、SK 環境業務從利潤和數量的角度來看，繼續真正滿足我們的期望和成長。

Our facilities network really did an awesome job of handling record volumes of containerized waste once again in our quarter. So that core business is really strong. Field services just another great quarter that they put together with the addition of HEPACO working with our legacy field service branches was just outstanding. And we continue to manage some good projects. So that was great.

我們的設施網路確實做得非常出色，在本季度再次處理了創紀錄數量的貨櫃廢棄物。所以說核心業務真的很強。現場服務是他們另一個出色的季度，加上 HEPACO 與我們傳統的現場服務分支機構的合作非常出色。我們繼續管理一些好的專案。所以那太好了。

IS was a little challenged as we talked about. When you look at the industrial services group for the quarter, really what happened is the turnarounds -- we have the same number of turnarounds that we expected for the quarter and expect for the full second half of the year. However, the scope and size of those turnarounds were less, but that refinery market is challenged. The crack spreads are down. They're cutting back, and they really only wanted to do the work that they needed to do to continue to run and close out the year.

正如我們所談論的那樣，IS 受到了一些挑戰。當你觀察本季的工業服務集團時，真正發生的事情是扭虧為盈——我們的扭虧為盈數量與我們對本季和整個下半年的預期相同。然而，這些轉變的範圍和規模較小，但煉油市場面臨挑戰。裂解價差有所下降。他們正在削減開支，他們實際上只想做繼續運行和結束這一年所需的工作。

On the SKSS side, as we all talked about in the script, that was really challenged by how base oil declined. And so, we took some aggressive actions there on reducing the throughput of our refinery network by closing and reducing the throughput of new work to make sure that we manage down our inventory, but also correct the pricing environment.

在 SKSS 方面，正如我們在劇本中討論的那樣，基礎油的下跌確實帶來了挑戰。因此，我們採取了一些積極的行動，透過關閉和減少新工作的吞吐量來降低煉油廠網路的吞吐量，以確保我們管理庫存，同時糾正定價環境。

And the team has engaged rapidly on changing our PFO, CFO to adjust to that. So we're really confident. We're at the low there. Items that we're implementing across the board to manage the cost of that network and go forward, we're all engaged in doing that.

團隊已迅速著手更換我們的 PFO、CFO 以適應這一點。所以我們真的很有信心。我們那裡處於最低點。我們正在全面實施以管理該網路的成本並繼續前進的項目，我們都致力於這樣做。

The only thing I'd add, Tyler, is that you got it right. From where we were in July, nothing really changed. I mean, as Eric said, some parts of the ES business did better. Some parts a little worse, but the guide is to guide, who wouldn't change it. That was just the answer. It really is isolated to SKSS.

我唯一要補充的是，泰勒，你說得對。與七月相比，沒有什麼真正改變。我的意思是，正如 Eric 所說，ES 業務的某些部分做得更好。有些地方差了一點，但指南就是指南，誰不會改呢。這就是答案。它確實與 SKSS 隔離。

Okay. So I'll ask a bigger picture question about SK. Do you really need to collect 69 million gallons? I guess, wouldn't it make sense to push harder to a CFO position scare some volumes away? Because right now, you're effectively oversupplying your own needs and probably having to sell those into the RFO market.

好的。所以我會問一個關於SK的更宏觀的問題。您真的需要收集 6900 萬加侖嗎？我想，如果更努力晉升財務長職位，會嚇跑一些業務量，這不是有意義的嗎？因為現在，您實際上已經供過於求了自己的需求，並且可能不得不將這些產品出售給 RFO 市場。

And then just big picture though, do you think that the actions you're taking, you'll be kind of trending back towards that $200 million in '25 in SKSS? Is that a good way to think about it? Or will it take longer than that?

然後從大局來看，你認為你正在採取的行動，你會在 25 年 SKSS 中回歸 2 億美元的趨勢嗎？這是一個好的思考方式嗎？或會需要比這更長的時間嗎？

Yeah, First, on the collected gallons, you're dead on, Tyler. The actions that we're taking is to aggressively push on our PFO, CFO model. And that will be at the risk of some of those gallons we understand that. And obviously, by the reduced production through our Newark refinery that helps to readjust the network accordingly. So we're taking that action.

是的，首先，就收集的加侖數而言，你完全正確，泰勒。我們正在採取的行動是積極推動我們的 PFO、CFO 模式。據我們了解，這將面臨一些加侖的風險。顯然，我們紐瓦克煉油廠產量的減少有助於相應地重新調整網路。所以我們正在採取這項行動。

As we go forward into 2025, we're still in the early parts of establishing budgets for our network. The $200 million, a little bit aggressive to think that we're going to be back at that number. But we're certainly taking aggressive actions to restabilize and grow our EBITDA from 2024 results into 2025.

進入 2025 年，我們仍處於制定網路預算的早期階段。2 億美元，認為我們會回到這個數字有點激進。但我們肯定會採取積極行動，從 2024 年到 2025 年恢復並提高 EBITDA。

And let's all remember that the pricing declines that we bought happened late in the quarter. And so, that's kind of where it is -- I agree with Eric and with your comments, Tyler, that we got to get after that. the pricing declines happen kind of late, and it does take time to kind of adjust the pricing, and we talked about that many times, and we're doing that as we speak, to type of work its way through the system.

讓我們都記住，我們購買的價格下降發生在本季末。所以，這就是它的情況——我同意埃里克和你的評論，泰勒，我們在那之後必須得到解決。定價下降發生得有點晚，調整定價確實需要時間，我們多次討論過這一點，正如我們所說，我們正在這樣做，透過系統進行工作類型。

Okay. So there's a lot going on in SKSS, but there's a lot to the story. So I know you guys talked a little bit about '25. I think you used the words positive trajectory into '25 profitable growth if I go back to Eric Dugas, I think. But as we start to sketch out '25, can you talk at a high level some of the key drivers there?

好的。所以 SKSS 發生了很多事情，但故事也有很多。我知道你們談論過一些關於 25 的事情。我認為，如果我回到埃里克·杜加斯（Eric Dugas），我認為您使用了“25 年盈利增長的積極軌跡”這個詞。但當我們開始勾勒 25 年時，您能否從高層次談談其中的一些關鍵驅動因素？

It feels like we've got a decent backdrop in ES. You've got Kimball coming online, you should stabilize SKSS, maybe turnarounds are up, PFAS is a tailwind. So I threw out some things, but can you guys give us any shape at all around '25. Just any broad comments would be super helpful.

感覺我們在 ES 有了一個不錯的背景。Kimball 上線了，你應該穩定 SKSS，也許扭轉局面會上升，PFAS 是順風。所以我扔掉了一些東西，但是你們能給我們 25 年左右的任何形狀嗎？只要任何廣泛的評論都會非常有幫助。

Yeah. This is Mike, and I'll start. So obviously, as Eric come through a formal kind of front-end budget process. And it was said in a couple of annual reports kind of prior to the quarter, nothing -- and you read the reports, nothing has changed in the back half of the year that changes our positive view of the business and its growth trajectory.

是的。這是麥克，我先開始。很明顯，當艾瑞克經歷了正式的前端預算流程。在本季度之前的幾份年度報告中，沒有任何變化——你讀了這些報告，下半年沒有任何變化改變我們對業務及其成長軌蹟的積極看法。

Assuming kind of no change in the macro environment, we expect to deliver mid-single-digit organic revenue growth in this business and adjusted EBITDA growth in the mid to high single digits, which is very consistent with what we've said in our Investor Day presentations and other comments we've made publicly, right? So nothing changed there.

假設宏觀環境沒有變化，我們預期該業務的有機收入將實現中個位數成長，調整後的EBITDA 成長將達到中個位數到高個位數，這與我們在《投資者》中所說的非常一致我們公開發表的日間演示和其他評論，對吧？所以那裡沒有任何改變。

And when you think about the breakout between kind of ES and SKSS, and Eric's tried to answer the question a minute ago, ES will probably be higher than that. And maybe SKSS, we got to get that stabilized, and it probably be lower than that. And maybe corporate stays as a percentage of revenue flattish to kind of where it is today.

當你想到 ES 和 SKSS 之間的突破時，Eric 一分鐘前試圖回答這個問題，ES 可能會比這更高。也許 SKSS，我們必須讓它穩定下來，而且可能會低於這個值。也許企業佔收入的百分比與今天持平。

So all those things you mentioned, whether it be PFAS, whether it be the role of effects of M&A, whether it be kind of the catalog that we've seen in this environment, that's all very real and very consistent with what we've said publicly many times, nothing has changed there.

所以你提到的所有這些事情，無論是 PFAS，無論是併購效應的作用，無論是我們在這個環境中看到的目錄，這都是非常真實的，並且與我們所看到的非常一致。次公開說過，那裡沒有任何改變。

If you see it in the refining space, all the companies we're announcing now, the oil pricing has been very, very under incredible pressure. And that's putting us under pressure. We're a price taker in that environment. We have to be faster than that, we will be faster in that and adjust our input pricing on a few more gallons to get that profitability up.

如果你在煉油領域看到它，我們現在宣布的所有公司，石油定價一直面臨著非常非常大的壓力。這讓我們面臨壓力。在那種環境下，我們就是價格接受者。我們必須比這更快，我們將更快地調整我們的投入價格幾加侖，以提高盈利能力。

Okay. One last one real quick. But shouldn't cash flow in '25 be a really good story. Kimball drops off, Baltimore drops off, working capital gets better on AR and inventory work down.

好的。最後一張真快。但 25 年的現金流不應該是一個非常好的故事嗎？金博爾（Kimball）下降，巴爾的摩（Baltimore）下降，AR 方面的營運資金有所改善，庫存工作也有所下降。

I couldn't agree more. So you're going to have some natural things happening. You're going to have Kimball spend getting back down to normal levels, right? So that CapEx is going to go down. We're going to obviously to grow the business, which is also very positive.

我完全同意。所以你將會發生一些自然的事情。你會讓金博爾的支出恢復到正常水平，對嗎？因此資本支出將會下降。顯然，我們將擴大業務，這也是非常積極的。

But then the things that Eric Dugas mentioned around some of the billing challenges in unbilled and some of the inventory challenges, they'll be a good catalyst whether we get them done in Q4 of 2024, they roll into 2025. We're going to get those fit working on a unique -- regularly on working those numbers down.

但是，埃里克·杜加斯(Eric Dugas) 提到的一些未開票挑戰和一些庫存挑戰，無論我們是否在2024 年第四季度完成這些挑戰，它們都將是一個很好的催化劑，它們將延續到2025 年。我們將讓這些合適的人員進行獨特的工作—定期降低這些數字。

And so, that should also be a great catalyst into 2025. So I'm really bullish about cash flow. I mean it's hard to budget, even harder, but cash flow, you got to see where we land here in 2024 before we get to that answer. But again, I feel good about it, continue to feel good about our cash flows and even a little better if there's a rollover of some of these working capital challenges Eric Dugas just mentioned.

因此，這也應該成為 2025 年的重要催化劑。所以我非常看好現金流。我的意思是，預算很難，甚至更難，但是現金流，你必須看看 2024 年我們的情況如何，然後才能得到答案。但同樣，我對此感覺良好，繼續對我們的現金流感覺良好，如果埃里克·杜加斯剛才提到的一些營運資金挑戰得以延期，那就更好了。

Noah Kaye, Oppenheimer.

諾亞凱，奧本海默。

Thanks for taking the questions. I Just want to proceed in a similar spirit to Tyler here and start with the fourth quarter. If we think about ES continuing to have a generally positive outlook. It looks like we got about 40 bps margin expansion here in 3Q. Any reason why margins shouldn't be up year-over-year for 4Q? I mean, if the mix is generally favorable, will be softness in IS. We think you would get some decent operating leverage in 4Q?

感謝您提出問題。我只是想以與泰勒類似的精神繼續進行，並從第四季開始。如果我們認為 ES 的前景仍然總體樂觀。看起來我們在第三季的利潤率擴大了約 40 個基點。為什麼第四季的利潤率不應該年增？我的意思是，如果混合總體上令人滿意，那麼 IS 就會變得柔軟。我們認為您會在第四季獲得一些不錯的營運槓桿？

We absolutely will. I mean we had kind of year-to-date, it was up 100 basis points of margin base. If you look at kind of ES in total. So 40% is a bit of a miss number the IS challenges that we just talked about. I would say though that if you backed out some of the IS challenges that Eric Gerstenberg mentioned a minute ago, the IS margins in Q3 would be up 100 base points. So I think that's a good story, and I think that continues into Q4.

我們絕對會的。我的意思是，今年迄今為止，我們的利潤率基礎上漲了 100 個基點。如果你看一下 ES 的總體類型。所以 40% 是我們剛才談到的 IS 挑戰的一個有點漏掉的數字。但我想說的是，如果你放棄 Eric Gerstenberg 一分鐘前提到的一些 IS 挑戰，那麼第三季的 IS 利潤率將上升 100 個基點。所以我認為這是一個好故事，我認為這種情況會持續到第四季。

Just one other point to add to that to Noah that as we've talked about, we're starting up Kimball this quarter. So when that comes along some start-up costs, as you see from our deferred inventory, we still have a lot of inventory to work off. But we do have that as we move forward through the fourth quarter.

還有一點要向諾亞補充一點，正如我們所討論的，我們將在本季度啟動金博爾。因此，當伴隨著一些啟動成本時，正如您從我們的遞延庫存中看到的那樣，我們仍然有大量庫存需要處理。但隨著第四季度的進展，我們確實做到了這一點。

Yeah. And I think that flips over to SKSS that there's just a challenge you've got to work through here over the next quarter plus, and I'd love some comments around the time frame to work through this inventory. It sounds like the inventory is just going to be a little bit higher priced versus the market. So you should take a hit on margins in 4Q. But just in your base case plan now, how long does it take to work through the excess inventory and get margins in the segment right sized?

是的。我認為這轉向 SKSS，您必須在下個季度以上完成這裡的挑戰，並且我希望在完成此清單的時間範圍內發表一些評論。聽起來庫存價格會比市場價格高一點。因此，第四季的利潤率應該會受到影響。但就您現在的基本案例計劃而言，需要多長時間才能處理掉多餘的庫存並在適當規模的細分市場中獲得利潤？

Yeah. Noah, this is Eric Dugas. Good question. I think when you look at the inventory in SKSS, as Eric Gerstenberg mentioned and Mike mentioned as well, we did make the decision to close down that California refinery. And so, that's going to help us right size the inventory right there. It's probably going to take into 2025 to get it back down to the levels that we see demand at.

是的。諾亞，這是艾瑞克·杜加斯。好問題。我認為，當你查看 SKSS 的庫存時，正如埃里克·格斯坦伯格和邁克也提到的那樣，我們確實做出了關閉加州煉油廠的決定。因此，這將幫助我們調整庫存規模。可能需要到 2025 年才能恢復到我們看到的需求水準。

But you're right, the unit cost at that plant is a bit higher than our overall network. So we'll see a little squeeze here in Q4 as we run that inventory through, but that should improve next year. So a lot of different reasons. We did that move, but all should be -- we should see benefits into 2025 there.

但你是對的，該工廠的單位成本比我們的整個網路要高一些。因此，當我們清理庫存時，我們會在第四季度看到一些擠壓，但明年情況應該會有所改善。所以有很多不同的原因。我們採取了這一舉措，但一切都應該如此——我們應該在 2025 年看到好處。

David Manthey, Baird.

大衛曼蒂，貝爾德。

Hey guys, good morning. First question in terms of our expectations. Can you talk about that $200 million SKSS EBITDA? Where did that come from? You hit that in '21 and '22, but the run rate you've only hit two quarters since then. And I think you made some comment about looking at your budgets and thinking about it.

嘿夥計們，早安。第一個問題是我們的期望。您能談談 SKSS 2 億美元的 EBITDA 嗎？那是從哪裡來的？你在 21 年和 22 年達到了這個目標，但自那以後你只達到了兩個季度的運行率。我認為您對查看預算並進行思考發表了一些評論。

Is $200 million just the wrong number for expectations in that space, even though with the Group III and some of the circular things you're doing, it seems like you're making headway there, but I'm just making sure that our expectations are right.

2 億美元對於這個領域的期望來說是錯誤的數字嗎？

David, you're probably right in your observation. We're under the year to get the midpoint of our guide. We're about [$150 million] range of EBITDA. We're doing a lot of things, as you noticed with Group III, with more blended gallons, with the HEPACO partnership. We got to go harder on (inaudible) gallons. We have to really have to kind of look at our cost structure as well.

大衛，你的觀察可能是對的。我們還不到一年就獲得了指南的中點。我們的 EBITDA 約為 [1.5 億美元]。正如您在第三組中註意到的那樣，我們正在與 HEPACO 合作夥伴關係中做很多事情，使用更多的混合加侖。我們必須更加努力地消耗（聽不清楚）加侖。我們也必須真正審視一下我們的成本結構。

I think that's going to take time to get that profitability up. We're doing a lot of good things around trans costs in other areas. But inflation is a bad guy there. We are a price taker in the marketplace. So that's something we just got to work our way through. I'm assuming in 2025, we get modestly better. I think that's a fair assumption, but modestly is the word out underlying there.

我認為提高獲利能力需要時間。我們在其他領域圍繞運輸成本做了很多好事。但通貨膨脹在那裡是個壞人。我們是市場上的價格接受者。所以這就是我們必須努力解決的問題。我假設到 2025 年，我們會稍微好一點。我認為這是一個合理的假設，但背後的說法卻是謙虛的。

Okay. And then on the HEPACO, you mentioned the adjustment to the free cash flow guidance based on delayed AR collection. And I'm assuming that was unplanned given that it wasn't in your original guidance. Can you just walk us through that?

好的。然後在 HEPACO 上，您提到了基於延遲 AR 收款對自由現金流指導的調整。我假設這是計劃外的，因為它不在您最初的指導中。能幫我們介紹一下嗎？

Sure, Dave. Really, it's an issue of timing. So the integration into our billing system kicked off in the month of June. Obviously, there's a learning curve attached to that. And what we began to see kind of in the August time frame into July, early August was a lot of the billing that happened during the integration needs to be corrected. We needed to bring in some resources from other areas of the business to correct those. And it's really just a delay in getting the bills out the door.

當然，戴夫。確實，這是一個時間問題。因此，與我們的計費系統的整合於六月開始。顯然，這有一個學習曲線。我們從 8 月到 7 月的時間範圍內開始看到，整合期間發生的大量計費需要修正。我們需要從業務的其他領域引入一些資源來糾正這些問題。這實際上只是延遲了賬單的發送。

In addition to that, last quarter, we talked about some very large ER response jobs in the business that also adds some complexity and probably had some timing into that. But what I want to emphasize is -- so to answer your question, yes, it was kind of late to see. We didn't see it there in the last week of July began to come about in August.

除此之外，上個季度，我們討論了業務中一些非常大的 ER 響應工作，這也增加了一些複雜性，並且可能有一些時間安排。但我想強調的是——所以回答你的問題，是的，現在看到有點晚了。我們在七月的最後一周沒有看到它在八月開始出現。

But what I'm happy to say is we were able to get a team on it fairly quickly. We're making traction today as we're fully integrated. We've got some experts across other areas of the business, helping out the team get caught up, and we totally expect to get this situation the unbilled levels correct as we move into 2025, but it is going to delay the cash generation associated with it. But it is timing. I want to emphasize just no bad debt risk or anything like that that we see here.

但我很高興地說，我們能夠很快地組建一個團隊。今天，隨著我們完全整合，我們正在取得進展。我們擁有其他業務領域的一些專家，幫助團隊趕上進度，我們完全希望在進入 2025 年時能夠糾正未開票水平，但這將延遲與相關的現金生成它。但這是時機。我想強調的是，沒有壞帳風險或我們在這裡看到的類似風險。

Okay. And then finally, a quick one. By my calculations, you still have over $500 million on the share repurchase. Do you have an exact number for us there?

好的。最後，快一點。根據我的計算，你們還有超過 5 億美元的資金用於股票回購。您有確切的電話號碼嗎？

[$545.5 million].

[5.455 億美元]。

Jerry Revich, Goldman Sachs.

傑瑞·雷維奇，高盛。

Hi, good morning. This is [Adam Bubes] on for Jerry today. Can you just update us on how your internal inflation is tracking? And how are you thinking about incinerator and hazardous landfill pricing? And what is a more normalized inflation environment?

嗨，早安。這是今天為傑瑞做的[亞當·布布斯]。您能否向我們介紹一下您內部通膨的最新情況？您如何看待焚燒爐和危險垃圾掩埋場的定價？什麼是更正常化的通膨環境？

Hi, it's Eric Dugas. So I'll take the inflation question, and I'll kick it over to Mike and Eric to talk about generally pricing methodologies. But I think on the inflation side, obviously, the biggest piece of our cost structure being labor. We're still continuing to see probably 3% to 4% inflationary labor there, little more stubborn than what we'd like to see, but that's what we're seeing.

嗨，我是艾瑞克·杜加斯。因此，我將討論通貨膨脹問題，並將其交給麥克和艾瑞克來討論一般定價方法。但我認為在通貨膨脹方面，顯然我們成本結構中最大的部分是勞動力。我們仍然會繼續看到那裡的勞動力通膨率可能達到 3% 到 4%，這比我們希望看到的情況要頑固一些，但這就是我們所看到的。

And then across the rest of the P&L, I think we continue to see inflationary pressures on things like maintenance while maybe there's some other areas where it's softening. So I think that wage inflation is probably a pretty good proxy of the entire P&L, but probably 3% to 4% is a good number to work with. And that's what we're kind of anticipating here for the next quarter. I'll turn it to Eric for pricing.

然後，在損益表的其餘部分，我認為我們繼續看到維護等方面的通膨壓力，而其他一些領域的通膨壓力可能正在減弱。因此，我認為薪資通膨可能是整個損益表的一個很好的代表，但 3% 到 4% 可能是一個不錯的數字。這就是我們對下個季度的預期。我會把它交給艾瑞克定價。

And then Jerry, just to talk about incineration and landfill. We continue to have a very regimented program to drive price improvement across the network. As we just talked about on the incineration side, we were able to have a 6% price increase across the board. We're going to continue to grow at those same single to high digit rates across both landfill, incineration, drug pricing. Our disposal network continues to be robust as we've talked about. So we fully expect our pricing to continue to hold.

然後傑瑞，談談焚燒和垃圾掩埋。我們繼續制定嚴格的計劃來推動整個網路的價格改善。剛才我們談到焚燒方面，我們能夠全線漲價6%。我們將在垃圾掩埋場、焚化廠和藥品定價領域繼續以同樣的個位數到高位數的速度成長。正如我們所討論的，我們的處置網絡仍然強大。因此，我們完全預計我們的定價將繼續保持不變。

And then with that in mind, how are you thinking about the early puts and takes on 2025 environmental services margin expansion? You should have continuous improvement in contract terms and pricing. But I think there's also some offsets from large discrete projects this year and M&A, just putting together the puts and takes. Can you help us think about that?

考慮到這一點，您如何看待 2025 年環境服務利潤率擴張的早期看跌期權？您應該不斷改進合約條款和定價。但我認為今年大型離散項目和併購也有一些抵消，只是將投入和投入放在一起。你能幫我們想一下嗎？

Yeah. Our long-term goal continues to be to get that ES business to the 30% range. And that's what we're going to drive towards. We'll continue to see margin expansion throughout 2025. We both have pricing initiatives, volume initiatives, but we also have cost initiatives start up at Kimball, and what we're going to be doing there will help us to get more efficient within our network as well. So all those will allow us to continue to expand on the EBITDA margin for our environmental services.

是的。我們的長期目標仍然是讓 ES 業務達到 30% 的範圍。這就是我們要努力實現的目標。我們將在 2025 年繼續看到利潤率擴張。我們都有定價計劃、銷售計劃，但我們也在金博爾啟動了成本計劃，我們在那裡要做的事情也將幫助我們提高網路效率。因此，所有這些都將使我們能夠繼續擴大環境服務的 EBITDA 利潤率。

Yeah. There's no reason to think, Adam, that we won't continue to drive margin expansion in that business. We're going to have a little bit of rollover from HEPACO for the three months we didn't own it. We're going to have the new incinerators Eric spoke of. We're going to have -- and we had a fair amount of good growth in EBITDA this year. That's based on good pricing and good leverage of our network. And that's going to continue in 2025.

是的。亞當，我們沒有理由認為我們不會繼續推動該業務的利潤率擴張。在我們不擁有 HEPACO 的三個月裡，我們將從 HEPACO 獲得一些展期。我們將擁有艾瑞克提到的新焚燒爐。今年我們的 EBITDA 將會有相當大的良好成長。這是基於良好的定價和我們網路的良好槓桿作用。這種情況將持續到 2025 年。

One thing I would say is that when Eric talked about containerized waste being record levels, and that is really -- that provides a lot of leverage into this business because adding kind of one more drom to a network really is at a very high margin. So that really is -- I see that as our success here for the first year or even the last couple of years, and that continues into 2024 to 2025. That leverage and that ability to drive that incremental drum is really a different space.

我要說的一件事是，當埃里克談到貨櫃垃圾達到創紀錄水平時，這確實為這項業務提供了很大的槓桿作用，因為在網路中添加更多的drom 確實具有非常高的利潤。所以這確實是——我認為這是我們第一年甚至最後幾年的成功，並將持續到 2024 年至 2025 年。這種槓桿作用和驅動增量鼓的能力確實是一個不同的空間。

Larry Solow, CJS Securities.

拉里·索洛，CJS 證券。

Great. Thank you very much and good morning, everybody. Just a few follow-ups. On the ES segment, obviously, you discussed this a little bit, but just a little more clarification. So EBITDA margin was obviously up a little bit less than it's been in the front half of the year.

偉大的。非常感謝大家，早安。只是一些後續行動。顯然，在 ES 部分，您對此進行了一些討論，但只是做了更多澄清。因此，EBITDA 利潤率的增幅顯然比今年上半年小。

Was that specifically mostly just to the shortfall on the industrial piece. And it does feel like you're making most of that up because I know you really haven't. You basically just trimmed guidance by 100 bps of the high end in terms of growth. So that's my first question

這主要是因為工業零件的短缺嗎？確實感覺大部分都是你編的，因為我知道你真的沒有。您基本上只是將成長方面的指導下調了 100 個基點。這是我的第一個問題

Yeah. Eric here. You're right. The IS and kind of the slowdown and less go turnarounds, that definitely drove the marks and IS down. As Mike alluded to, I think, a few moments ago, if you kind of estimate what the margins would be if you kind of normalize IS, the rest of the business is close to triple digits or 100 basis points of margin improvement. So certainly, IS was the major item there.

是的。埃里克在這裡。你說得對。IS 以及某種程度的放緩和更少的周轉，這肯定導致了標記和 IS 的下降。正如麥克剛才提到的，我想，如果你估計 IS 正常化後的利潤率是多少，那麼其餘業務的利潤率改善接近三位數或 100 個基點。所以毫無疑問，IS 是那裡的主要項目。

Got you. And on Kimball, I think you mentioned a little bit of startup cost in Q4. Could you just remind us the ramp. I think you had not actual guidance, but you had projected a $25 million to $30 million EBITDA in contribution 2025. Is that still in the ballpark? And how does it look as you go out to '26, would you get that continue to rise at a nice pace?

明白你了。關於 Kimball，我認為您提到了第四季度的一些啟動成本。你能提醒我們坡道嗎？我認為你們沒有實際的指導，但你們預計 2025 年的 EBITDA 貢獻為 2500 萬至 3000 萬美元。那還在球場裡嗎？到了 26 年，情況如何，你會繼續以良好的速度成長嗎？

Larry, this is Eric Gerstenberg. No. To clarify, the number that you just referred to was our expected tonnage throughput of the unit. We plan to manage through that unit, about 30,000 tons next year. That's our target and EBITDA contribution there, probably in the $8 million to $12 million range.

拉里，這是埃里克·格斯坦伯格。不。需要澄清的是，您剛才提到的數字是我們預期裝置的噸位吞吐量。我們計劃明年透過裝置管理約3萬噸。這就是我們的目標和 EBITDA 貢獻，可能在 800 萬美元到 1200 萬美元範圍內。

Got it. So a peak would be $25 million to $30 million, that's a peak number, I guess, right, that [70,000] capacity, plus or minus?

知道了。所以峰值將是 2500 萬美元到 3000 萬美元，這是一個峰值數字，我想，對，那個 [70,000] 容量，加還是減？

(multiple speakers) as we continue to start up the incinerator and continue to leverage the capabilities the over the next three years, we will get to that production capacity of 45,000, 50,000, 55,000 tons-plus.

（多名發言者）隨著我們繼續啟動焚化爐並在未來三年繼續利用這些能力，我們的產能將達到 45,000、50,000、55,000 噸以上。

Got it. Okay. And then on HEPACO, just outside of the integration on the billing platform, it feels like the business itself continues to run at or ahead of expectations. Any change in the trajectory of the integration on the synergy side? I know you had thrown out some numbers when you first made the acquisition. Is there any change there?

知道了。好的。然後在 HEPACO 上，除了計費平台的整合之外，感覺業務本身繼續按預期或領先於預期運作。協同方面的整合軌跡有變化嗎？我知道當你第一次進行收購時，你已經拋出了一些數字。那裡有什麼變化嗎？

Sure, Larry, it's Eric. I'll take that one. The HEPACO acquisition so far has gone great. We're ahead of schedule and synergies probably quicker to internalize some work as we've talked about in the last couple of quarters. So the business really is ahead of schedule. We've seen some larger jobs as we talked about in Q2, that kind of led into Q3 as well.

當然，拉里，是艾瑞克。我會接受那個。到目前為止，對 HEPACO 的收購進展順利。正如我們在過去幾個季度所討論的那樣，我們提前完成了計劃，並且協同效應可能會更快地內化一些工作。所以這項業務確實提早了。正如我們在第二季度談到的那樣，我們看到了一些更大的工作，這也導致了第三季。

So we've talked about the two businesses almost being hand in glove, and we continue to see that. They're working well together and performance has been better. It's the integration of the unbilled, that's probably the 1 source spot, and as I said a moment ago, we after that, and I totally expect that to be corrected. But other than that, five star so far.

因此，我們已經討論過這兩家公司幾乎是緊密相連的，而且我們仍然看到這種情況。他們合作得很好，表現也更好。這是未開票的整合，這可能是第一個來源點，正如我剛才所說，我們在那之後，我完全希望這一點能夠得到糾正。但除此之外，到目前為止，五星級。

Got it. And if I could just say a couple, just housekeeping ones. On the lower corporate, mostly due to just lower incentive comp. I know you lowered that a little bit for the year in your guidance. Is that just the intent of compensation coming back.

知道了。如果我只能說幾個，那就是家事服務。對於較低的公司，主要是由於激勵比較較低。我知道您在今年的指導中降低了一點。這只是補償回來的目的嗎？

That's correct, Larry.

沒錯，拉里。

Got it. And lastly, just CapEx. Is Kimball still -- I think you said $60 million year-to-date. Eric, is that still in the $65 million to $70 million run rate in Baltimore is around $20 million. Is that about right?

知道了。最後，只是資本支出。金博爾還在嗎——我想你說過今年迄今為止已經有 6000 萬美元了。艾瑞克，巴爾的摩的運行費率仍然是 6500 萬至 7000 萬美元，約 2000 萬美元。是這樣嗎？

Yeah. So $60 million, $65 million at Kimball this year and then add $20 million for Baltimore.

是的。所以今年金博爾需要 6,000 萬美元，6,500 萬美元，然後巴爾的摩需要 2,000 萬美元。

Jim Ricchiuti, Needham.

吉姆·里基烏蒂，李約瑟。

Hi. Thanks. Good morning. So I just wanted to go back to some of the commentary in the IS portion of the business. So the difficulty there, it's mainly in the refinery area? Or are you seeing some other pockets of any softer demand in other market sectors. And I wonder if you could just elaborate on some of the actions that you're taking in this part of the business?

你好。謝謝。早安.所以我只想回到業務的 IS 部分的一些評論。那麼困難主要是在煉油領域嗎？或者您是否在其他市場領域看到了需求疲軟的情況。我想知道您能否詳細說明您在這部分業務中採取的一些行動？

Yeah, Jim. I'll start. So on the IS, it really was around the scope and extent of our refinery vertical that we're servicing. As I mentioned earlier, the number of turnarounds continued to be the same that we expected going into the second half of the year, and we still have turnarounds that obviously we've been working on through the start of Q4.

是的，吉姆。我開始吧。因此，在 IS 上，它確實圍繞著我們所服務的煉油廠垂直領域的範圍和範圍。正如我之前提到的，下半年的扭虧為盈數量仍然與我們預期的相同，而且我們仍然有扭虧為盈，顯然我們在第四季初一直在努力。

In addition to that, some of those refineries just really held back on what the scope of the turnaround, the length, the size, things that they originally planned, they held back on to manage their costs. So that's the real area that's been affected. Our strategy within industrial services is really to cross-sell into our other environmental customers and really leverage the chemical vertical that we service, customers such as 3M.

除此之外，一些煉油廠確實推遲了改造的範圍、長度、規模以及他們最初計劃的事情，他們推遲了管理成本。這就是真正受到影響的區域。我們在工業服務領域的策略實際上是向其他環境客戶進行交叉銷售，並真正利用我們服務的化學垂直領域（例如 3M 等客戶）。

That's a great example of a customer that we've gotten embedded with on the traditional T&D side, but we're getting embedded on the industrial side. So we're really focused on being a little bit less dependent on that turnaround season in that refineries and cross-selling across our traditional environmental customers. A lot of work being done there. The teams on it, some of the specialty services that we've developed applied to those more complex industries such as chemical that we're really trying to diversify that portfolio.

這是一個很好的例子，我們已經在傳統的輸電與發展方面嵌入了客戶，但我們正在工業方面嵌入。因此，我們真正關注的是減少對煉油廠週轉季節的依賴，以及對傳統環保客戶的交叉銷售。那裡正在進行大量工作。我們開發的團隊、一些專業服務適用於化學等更複雜的行業，我們確實在努力使產品組合多樣化。

And when you think about the actions we're taking, as Eric said, cross-sell is incredibly important, leveraging our other verticals that we serve with industrial services but then also getting after pricing. As they do get mentioned, the labor rates are up 3% to 4%.

當你考慮我們正在採取的行動時，正如艾瑞克所說，交叉銷售非常重要，利用我們透過工業服務提供的其他垂直領域，然後也獲得定價。正如他們所提到的，勞動力價格上漲了 3% 到 4%。

And so, we need to kind of make sure that we are staying in front of that with our pricing structure and with our cost structure for our industrial services. That's certainly has been -- it's a heavily labor-intensive business. And so, those types of wage inflation really put a lot of pressure on those margins. So getting after pricing in this business is critically important to our success.

因此，我們需要確保我們的定價結構和工業服務的成本結構保持領先地位。這肯定是——這是一個勞力密集產業。因此，這些類型的工資上漲確實給這些利潤帶來了巨大的壓力。因此，掌握這項業務的定價對於我們的成功至關重要。

Thank you. And you guys sound fairly positive about the opportunity as it relates to the PFAS situation. What kind of run rate is that business at right now? And is there any way to think about that business from where we sit today looking out to '25?

謝謝。你們聽起來對這個機會相當積極，因為它與 PFAS 情況有關。該業務目前的運作率是多少？從我們今天坐的位置展望 25 世紀，有沒有什麼方法可以思考這項業務？

Yeah. Jim, Eric here. I'll take the first answer on that. Our pipeline across the board, as we've talked about, continuously grows anywhere from 15% to 25% quarter-to-quarter. We are continuing to see robust demand. And what's really good to see is that even though there is not yet really solid regulatory environment about PFAS on the disposal side, in particular, in the levels, we still see an increasing demand.

是的。吉姆，埃里克在這裡。我將採取第一個答案。正如我們所討論的，我們的整體管道每季持續成長 15% 至 25%。我們繼續看到強勁的需求。真正令人高興的是，儘管在處置方面尚未建立真正可靠的 PFAS 監管環境，特別是在水平方面，但我們仍然看到需求不斷增長。

So customers are reacting as if there's already those regulatory parameters in place. And that's why our pipeline is growing. So in the last quarter in Q3, we've had some nice PFAS opportunities projects into our incinerators into our landfills, our media group on water treatment. It's really been across the board.

因此，客戶的反應就好像這些監管參數已經就位一樣。這就是我們的管道不斷增長的原因。因此，在第三季度的最後一個季度，我們在焚化爐、垃圾掩埋場、水處理媒體組中開展了一些不錯的 PFAS 機會項目。這確實是全面的。

We're seeing samples now upfront for PFAS opportunities and getting embedded in that. So really a good, strong, solid pipeline and customers are interacting with us as if regulations are in place to manage whatever they're going to do the proper way into the future here. So we feel pretty solid about that.

我們現在看到了 PFAS 機會的預付樣本，並嵌入其中。因此，確實有一個良好、強大、可靠的管道，客戶正在與我們互動，就好像法規已經到位，可以管理他們未來要做的任何事情。所以我們對此感覺很踏實。

Brian Butler, Stifel.

布萊恩巴特勒，斯蒂菲爾。

Thanks for taking the question. First one on SKSS. Was there a much larger discount that you were selling Group II versus spot prices? Because when I look at the spot prices, they are down, but not to the level that would want the impact that we saw in the third quarter. And I'm just curious if you're selling at a discount and if that's changed over the last couple of quarters.

感謝您提出問題。第一個關於 SKSS 的。與現貨價格相比，您銷售第二組的折扣是否更大？因為當我查看現貨價格時，它們有所下降，但並未達到我們在第三季看到的影響水準。我只是好奇你們是否以折扣價出售，以及過去幾季是否發生了變化。

I would say that -- Brian, this is Mike. I would say that that market price versus the published price is completely disconnected. It is market price, spot price, we are getting paid for that oil is completely disconnected from what you see in published reports.

我想說——布萊恩，這是麥克。我想說的是，市場價格與公佈價格完全脫節。這是市場價格，現貨價格，我們得到的報酬是石油與您在已發布的報告中看到的完全脫節。

And directionally, it's going the same way, but certainly not at the same level. So that's what we really saw as we got through into September. And we're putting it together. As you see, a lot of refineries coming out with their results, and how much pressure they're under, putting a lot of pressure in the marketplace, kind of an oversupply of base oil.

從方向上看，它的發展方向是相同的，但肯定不在同一水平上。這就是我們進入九月時真正看到的情況。我們正在將它們放在一起。正如你所看到的，許多煉油廠都公佈了他們的業績，以及他們承受的壓力有多大，給市場帶來了很大的壓力，有點基礎油供應過剩。

And so, that's really kind of putting pressure both on and our spot customers and our contracted customers are both kind of asking for discounts based on kind of the market price that they're seeing today. So it makes our job and your job more difficult. That is not a good indicator to kind of point to, but that's what's happening.

因此，這確實給我們的現貨客戶和合約客戶都帶來了壓力，他們都根據他們今天看到的市場價格要求折扣。因此，這使我們的工作和您的工作變得更加困難。這並不是一個很好的指標，但這就是正在發生的事情。

Okay. And then when you look at the cash flow on the Group III opportunities, when does that become a material contributor or have an impact? Is that really 2026, and it's going to take that long to ramp up? Or do we start to see something that we can actually measure sooner than that?

好的。然後，當您查看第三組機會的現金流時，它何時會成為實質貢獻者或產生影響？那真的是 2026 年嗎，而且需要那麼長時間才能加速嗎？或者我們會比這更早開始看到我們可以實際測量的東西？

So I would say in the Group III, we certainly see that benefit or today. We have one plant producing Group III. Now we're using it internally for our own lending gallons that's really been (inaudible) that's been a good cost save. No way around that. That has been positive in opening up another one, we'll go teach you down that path.

所以我想說，在第三組，我們今天肯定看到了這個好處。我們有一家工廠生產 III 類產品。現在，我們在內部將其用於我們自己的貸款加侖，這確實（聽不清楚）這是一個很好的成本節省。沒有辦法解決這個問題。這對於開闢另一條道路是積極的，我們會教你走那條路。

So I'd say that, that's kind of very real under our control, and we're seeing that benefit today. Not as much as we used to be because of pricing on Group III, just like it is on Group II. Certainly, that's been a winner for us here in 2024 and into 2025. On Castrol, I think it takes time. As you know, the sales cycle is long on these types of fleets changing over. They have a very strong marketing team. They have a very strong sales team.

所以我想說，這在我們的控制之下是非常真實的，我們今天看到了這個好處。不像以前那麼多，因為第三組的定價，就像第二組的定價一樣。當然，這對我們來說是 2024 年和 2025 年的贏家。對於嘉實多，我認為這需要時間。如您所知，此類車隊更換的銷售週期較長。他們擁有非常強大的行銷團隊。他們擁有非常強大的銷售團隊。

We meet with them quite often, and they're very -- and their cap seem very bullish about their ability to sell into this. We have some small wins already, but not nothing real to kind of move the needle yet, but that's certainly going to help us as we look into 2025 and 2026. I don't think it's going to be a 2026, 2027. I think we're going to see real in momentum in 2025, no doubt.

我們經常與他們會面，他們非常——而且他們的上限似乎非常看好他們的銷售能力。我們已經取得了一些小勝利，但還沒有任何實質進展，但這肯定會對我們展望 2025 年和 2026 年有所幫助。我認為不會是 2026 年、2027 年。我認為毫無疑問，我們將在 2025 年看到真正的勢頭。

Okay. And then maybe one last one, just on PFAS. Do you have a year-to-date kind of revenue number on where that is for '24 and what that looked like again, I guess, a year ago?

好的。也許還有最後一項，就 PFAS 而言。您是否有 24 世紀至今的收入數據以及一年前的收入？

Yeah. Brian, we're trending probably around that $80 million to $90 million run rate this year.

是的。Brian，我們今年的運行率可能在 8,000 萬到 9,000 萬美元左右。

So run rate for the full year.

所以全年的運行率。

Run rate for the full year. That's correct.

全年運行率。這是正確的。

Yeah. I think we exited the year at $100 million. I think that's kind of a fair look into 2025. That's probably a fair estimate. It ran in the course of the year with the progress we've made, I think quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year.

是的。我認為我們今年結束時的收入為 1 億美元。我認為這是對 2025 年的公平展望。這可能是一個公平的估計。它在這一年中與我們取得的進展一起運行，我認為是逐季度和逐年取得的進展。

Timna Tanners, Wolfe Research.

蒂姆納坦納斯，沃爾夫研究。

Yeah. Hey, good morning. I just have two lingering questions related to base oil, if I could. So one is, if you could please elaborate a little bit on the flip from pay for oil to charge oil? I know you mentioned it doesn't flip on a dime, but how long does it take to do that? And is there any way to speed up that process in light of changing market conditions.

是的。嘿，早安。如果可以的話，我只有兩個與基礎油相關的揮之不去的問題。那麼，您能否詳細說明從支付石油費用到收取石油費用的轉變？我知道你提到它不會立即翻轉，但是需要多長時間才能做到這一點？根據不斷變化的市場條件，有什麼方法可以加快這一進程。

No, I appreciate your question. We were actually been discussing that quite a bit as far as kind of how fast we change. The challenge you have is this, pricing moves on the base oil prices immediately. It gets announced, and they negotiate, pricing is there, and that's the price we take.

不，我很欣賞你的問題。事實上，我們已經就我們改變的速度進行了許多討論。您面臨的挑戰是，定價會立即根據基礎油價格變化。它被宣布，然後他們進行談判，定價就在那裡，這就是我們採取的價格。

On the charge oil paper oil process, even if we change that day, it takes six to eight weeks to work its way through the system. I go buy oil from tender's auto body shop. Well, I got to ship it, I got to process it and also we got to sell it. So there's a natural lag there, and we're going faster lowering inventory helps and being better, being more thoughtful about transport and will help.

在充油紙油過程中，即使我們更改日期，也需要六到八週的時間才能通過系統。我去招標的汽車修理廠買油。好吧，我必須運送它，我必須處理它，我們還必須出售它。因此，存在自然滯後，我們會更快地降低庫存，並做得更好，對運輸更加周到，也會有所幫助。

But we need to be fair, we need to be faster in that decision-making and moving pricing, whether it be PFO or CFO quicker, but there is a natural lag there that's very difficult to get around just because oils in our network as it works its way through, it gets re-refined in backing the basal and ultimately sold, there's a lag there that you can't get around.

但我們需要公平，我們需要更快地做出決策和調整定價，無論是 PFO 還是 CFO 更快，但那裡存在一個自然滯後，很難繞過，因為我們網絡中的石油它通過它的方式進行，它在支持基礎上被重新提煉並最終被出售，那裡有一個你無法繞過的滯後。

Okay. That's helpful. And then just the second part is on the California re-refinery. Makes sense to add that one. Imagine, I might be a higher cost facility being in California. But could you talk a little bit more about how long it might be down, or are there any exit costs or other implications or remediation you need to do there to keep in mind?

好的。這很有幫助。第二部分是關於加州的再煉油廠。添加這一點是有道理的。想像一下，我可能是加州的一個成本較高的設施。但是您能否多談談它可能會下降多長時間，或者是否有任何退出成本或其他影響或您需要牢記的補救措施？

No, really, no additional costs. We really just titled the refinery from producing the base oil. So no additional costs there. Actually, it's a cost savings right throughout the fourth quarter as we move forward here. And long-term, that really depends on market conditions, how they continue to look. But certainly, for the next six months to a year, we plan to remain having that refinery idle.

不，真的，沒有額外費用。我們實際上只是將生產基礎油的煉油廠命名為「煉油廠」。所以沒有額外的費用。事實上，隨著我們向前推進，整個第四季都節省了成本。從長遠來看，這實際上取決於市場狀況以及它們的持續表現。但可以肯定的是，在接下來的六個月到一年內，我們計劃繼續讓煉油廠閒置。

And Timna, just from an environmental standpoint, we're still using the facility. We still use it as a distribution center, we have a kind of waste lives charge with other things we can still do kind of at the site. The site still remains as an active site, so it's not going to be re-refining to use more oil.

蒂姆納，僅從環境角度來看，我們仍在使用該設施。我們仍然把它用作配送中心，我們有一種浪費生命的費用，我們仍然可以在現場做其他事情。該地點仍然是一個活躍地點，因此不會重新精煉以使用更多石油。

(Operator Instructions) Tobey Sommer, Truist.

（操作者說明）Tobey Sommer，真理論者。

I'll start with the re-refinery. Is this an industry-wide overstocking problem? And could you describe what other industry players are doing? Are you alone in idling some capacity or after market participants --

我將從再精煉廠開始。這是全行業的庫存過剩問題嗎？您能否描述一下其他產業參與者正在做什麼？您是唯一閒置部分產能的人還是後市場參與者--

Hey, Tobey. This is Mike, and I'll start. So I don't know if you saw the P66 actually closed the re-refineries and process closing a refinery in California as well. So I think that the cost structure as [Kimball] mentioned, is actually the highest of our network.

嘿，托比。這是麥克，我先開始。所以我不知道你是否看到 P66 實際上關閉了再煉油廠並關閉了加州的煉油廠。所以我認為 [Kimball] 提到的成本結構實際上是我們網絡中最高的。

And so, I think that you see that I'm only reacting to what you see in the use case, where the large refineries taking kind of all-time lows. I saw BP cash flow speaking of a company is at all-time lows as far as profitability goes in their refining space. So that's what that market dynamic that we're all facing. No one would be running at public company, refinery companies. So it's hard for me to kind of speak to that, but I'm sure they're feeling the same pain.

因此，我認為您看到我只是對您在用例中看到的情況做出反應，其中大型煉油廠的股價創下歷史新低。我看到，就煉油領域的獲利能力而言，英國石油公司的現金流處於歷史最低水準。這就是我們都面臨的市場動態。沒有人會在上市公司、煉油公司任職。所以我很難談論這一點，但我確信他們也感受到了同樣的痛苦。

With respect to Kimball and other new capacity coming to the market, what's the overall increase in North American capacity as we look into 2025?

就 Kimball 和其他新產能進入市場而言，展望 2025 年，北美產能整體成長為何？

Directionally, going into 2025, how many is 2026 based on just the timing of the units coming online. But Kimball, what we've talked about is 70,000 tons of practical capacity will be in (technical difficulty) so look at that. And then another unit coming online in Arkansas, probably in the 70,000 to 90,000 ton a year range. So think about it in that context, [140, 160].

從方向上來說，進入 2025 年，根據機組上線的時間，2026 年有多少個。但 Kimball，我們談到的是 7 萬噸的實際產能（技術難度），所以看看這個。然後另一個裝置在阿肯色州投入使用，年產量可能在 70,000 至 90,000 噸之間。所以在這種情況下考慮一下[140、160]。

We're going to be at 12% in our capacity, let me put that. We're fully operational. It's fully operational.

讓我這麼說吧，我們的產能將達到 12%。我們已全面投入營運。它已完全投入運作。

Appreciate that. Last one for me. What does the customer churn look like in ES or customer retention you can take either way you like. And how would you describe price sensitivity as the company seeks to raise price and exchange for value you provide?

很欣賞這一點。最後一張給我。ES 中的客戶流失或客戶保留是什麼樣的，您可以採取任何您喜歡的方式。當公司尋求提高價格並交換您提供的價值時，您如何描述價格敏感度？

Yeah, Tobey, Eric here. So customer churn is very low. The demand for our services has been very high, and we think we've done a great job of actually growing our market share across the board. The receptiveness to pricing, it's sticking as you see from our financial results, and we expect that to continue really robust demand. And I think the team out there, field has done a great job of grabbing opportunities, closing on them quickly.

是的，托比、艾瑞克在這裡。所以客戶流失率非常低。對我們服務的需求非常高，我們認為我們在全面提高市場份額方面做得很好。正如您從我們的財務表現中看到的那樣，人們對定價的接受程度一直很高，我們預計這種需求將持續強勁。我認為現場團隊在抓住機會並迅速抓住機會方面做得很好。

We had a great service network that's able to service customers really fast and get that waste into our network. And because of though, that our ability to service them and our network of our disposal facilities that allows us to give that great service but continue to command price improvement across the board.

我們擁有一個出色的服務網絡，能夠快速為客戶提供服務，並將廢物排入我們的網絡。但正因為如此，我們為他們提供服務的能力以及我們的處置設施網絡使我們能夠提供優質的服務，同時繼續全面提高價格。

Thank you, Mr. Gerstenberg. We have no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the floor back over to you for closing comments.

謝謝你，格斯坦伯格先生。目前我們沒有進一步的問題。我想將發言權交還給您以供結束評論。

So thanks for joining us today, everyone. We'll be participating in several investor events in the coming week, including the Stifel event in Baltimore and the Barrett event in Chicago. We look forward to seeing some of you there. Please enjoy the rest of the day and above all, please keep safe out there.

感謝大家今天加入我們。我們將在下週參加多項投資者活動，包括巴爾的摩的 Stifel 活動和芝加哥的 Barrett 活動。我們期待在那裡見到你們中的一些人。請享受這一天剩下的時間，最重要的是，請保持安全。

Thank you. This does conclude today's teleconference. We thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與。此時您可以斷開線路。