Clean Harbors Inc (CLH) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Clean Harbors Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Michael McDonald, General Counsel. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

您好，歡迎參加 Clean Harbors 第四季和 2023 年全年財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興向您介紹主持人，總法律顧問邁克爾麥克唐納。謝謝你，先生。你可以開始了。

Thank you, Christine, and good morning, everyone. With me on today's call are our Co-Chief Executive Officer, Eric Gerstenberg and Mike Battles; and our EVP and Chief Financial Officer, Eric Dugas, and SVP of Investor Relations, Jim Buckley.

謝謝克里斯汀，大家早安。與我一起參加今天電話會議的有我們的聯合執行長 Eric Gerstenberg 和 Mike Battles；以及我們的執行副總裁兼財務長 Eric Dugas 和投資者關係資深副總裁 Jim Buckley。

Slides for today's call are posted on our Investor Relations website, and we invite you to follow along. Matters we are discussing today that are not historical facts are considered forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Participants cautioned not to place undue reliance on these statements, which reflect management's opinions only as of today, February 21, 2024. Information on potential factors and risks that could affect our results is included in our SEC filings. The company undertakes no obligation to revise or publicly release the results of any revision to the statements made today other than through filings made concerning this reporting period.

今天電話會議的幻燈片已發佈在我們的投資者關係網站上，我們邀請您關注。我們今天討論的非歷史事實的事項被視為1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性陳述。參與者警告不要過分依賴這些陳述，這些陳述僅反映截至今天（2 月）管理層的意見2024 年 2 月 21 日。有關可能影響我們業績的潛在因素和風險的資訊包含在我們向 SEC 提交的文件中。除了透過與本報告期間相關的文件提交之外，本公司沒有義務修改或公開發布對今天所做的聲明的任何修改結果。

Today's discussion includes references to non-GAAP measures. Clean Harbors believes that such information provides an additional measurement and consistent historical comparison of its performance. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are available in today's news release, on our website and in the appendix of today's presentation.

今天的討論涉及非公認會計原則措施。 Clean Harbors 認為，此類資訊提供了對其績效的額外衡量和一致的歷史比較。這些指標與最直接可比較的公認會計準則指標的調節可在今天的新聞稿、我們的網站和今天簡報的附錄中找到。

Let me turn the call over to Eric Gerstenberg to start. Eric?

讓我把電話轉給埃里克·格斯坦伯格開始。艾瑞克？

Thanks, Michael. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. Our full year and fourth quarter 2023 performance underscores the role of our Environmental Services segment as a long-term growth engine for Clean Harbors. The strong core we have built through organic initiatives and strategic M&A continues to strengthen our sustainable business model with unique competitive advantages. These advantages include a portfolio of difficult to replicate assets, a diverse customer base, high-value services anchored by strong pricing as well as an outstanding and highly skilled workforce. As our ES results for 2023 demonstrated, we continue to drive increased efficiencies in areas such as labor, transportation and logistics, while capturing meaningful acquisition synergies as we advance our Vision 2027 strategy.

謝謝，麥可。大家早安，感謝您加入我們。我們的 2023 年全年和第四季業績凸顯了我們的環境服務部門作為清潔港口長期成長引擎的作用。我們透過有機舉措和策略併購建立的強大核心繼續強化我們具有獨特競爭優勢的永續商業模式。這些優勢包括難以複製的資產組合、多元化的客戶群、以強勁定價為基礎的高價值服務以及優秀且高技能的員工隊伍。正如我們 2023 年的 ES 業績所表明的那樣，我們將繼續提高勞動力、運輸和物流等領域的效率，同時在推進 2027 年願景策略時獲得有意義的收購協同效應。

Before discussing the quarter, I want to take a moment to recognize the valuable contributions and substantial efforts of our entire team in delivering a terrific 2023. To our employees, thank you for everything you do to make Clean Harbor successful.

在討論本季之前，我想花點時間表彰我們整個團隊為實現輝煌的 2023 年所做的寶貴貢獻和巨大努力。對於我們的員工，感謝你們為使 Clean Harbor 取得成功所做的一切。

Turning to Q4 performance on Slide 3. Environmental Services capped a record year with an outstanding fourth quarter in its ninth consecutive quarter of year-over-year EBITDA growth. That concluded an exceptional 2023 for this segment, where we increased our annual adjusted EBITDA margin by 160 basis points. All of our ES businesses, Technical Services, Safety-Kleen environment, Industrial Services and Field services, delivered growth in Q4 as demand for our highly trained workforce and unique asset base continues to be strong. SKSS fell short of our expectations in Q4. The market pricing improvements we saw in October faded as the quarter progressed. Volumes sold was a positive metric and increased significantly from Q4 in 2022 as the team worked hard to continue to grow its sales pipeline, especially with our blended and value-added products to offset weaker pricing. Mike will provide more detail on SKSS in his remarks.

轉向幻燈片 3 上的第四季度業績。環境服務部以出色的第四季度 EBITDA 連續第九個季度實現同比增長，為創紀錄的一年畫上了圓滿的句號。這為該細分市場帶來了非凡的 2023 年，我們將年度調整後 EBITDA 利潤率提高了 160 個基點。由於對我們訓練有素的員工隊伍和獨特資產基礎的需求持續強勁，我們所有的 ES 業務、技術服務、安全克萊恩環境、工業服務和現場服務在第四季度都實現了成長。第四季 SKSS 未達我們的預期。隨著季度的進展，我們 10 月看到的市場定價改善逐漸消失。銷售量是一個積極的指標，與 2022 年第四季相比顯著增加，因為團隊努力繼續擴大銷售管道，特別是透過我們的混合和增值產品來抵消定價疲軟。 Mike 將在演講中提供有關 SKSS 的更多詳細資訊。

As we often do, I want to highlight our remarkable safety results. The team delivered a Q4 TRIR of 0.51, which resulted in a full year of 2023 rate of 0.63, the best safety performance in our history and far exceeding our annual goal. We can't say enough about the great work the organization continues to do around safety and how meaningful it is to all of our stakeholders.

正如我們經常做的那樣，我想強調我們卓越的安全成果。該團隊的第四季度 TRIR 為 0.51，這使得 2023 年全年的 TRIR 達到 0.63，這是我們歷史上最好的安全表現，遠遠超出了我們的年度目標。對於該組織在安全方面持續所做的出色工作以及它對我們所有利益相關者的意義，我們無法言表。

Turning to Environmental Services on Slide 4. Segment revenue increased 7% due to continued service growth, increased disposal volumes, solid pricing and the addition of the Thompson Industrial while EBITDA increased 16%, resulting in margin expansion of 190 basis points from the fourth quarter of 2022. In the quarter, as it has all year, our Safety-Kleen Environmental Services business led the way with 11% top line growth. Containerized waste services continued its strong growth trajectory stemming from sales initiatives designed to drive more waste into our network.

轉向幻燈片4 上的環境服務。由於服務持續成長、處置量增加、穩定的定價以及Thompson Industrial 的加入，該部門收入增長7%，而EBITDA 增長16%，導致利潤率較第四季度擴大190 個基點2022 年。與全年一樣，本季我們的 Safety-Kleen 環境服務業務以 11% 的收入成長領先。貨櫃廢棄物服務持續保持強勁的成長勢頭，這得益於旨在將更多廢棄物引入我們網路的銷售措施。

Technical Services revenue rose 5%, led by pricing and greater year-over-year volumes into our incinerator, landfills and our TSDFs. Q4 incineration utilization was 85% versus 84% a year ago. Average incineration pricing was up 7% in the quarter due to a favorable mix and pricing initiatives and for the year, incineration pricing was up 9%. For 2023, utilization was 84% as we conducted substantial repair work, including winterization at our Southern plants due to the deep freezes of the past several years. We continue to see a consistent flow of remediation and waste projects in the quarter, which helped drive a 24% increase in Q4 landfill volumes with the average pricing up 3%.

技術服務收入增加了 5%，這主要得益於定價以及焚化爐、垃圾掩埋場和 TSDF 的同比數量增加。第四季焚化利用率為 85%，而一年前為 84%。由於有利的組合和定價舉措，本季的平均焚化定價上漲了 7%，全年焚化定價上漲了 9%。到 2023 年，由於我們進行了大量的維修工作，包括由於過去幾年的深度冰凍而對南方工廠進行防凍工作，因此利用率為 84%。我們繼續看到本季修復和廢棄物項目的持續流動，這有助於推動第四季垃圾掩埋量增加 24%，平均價格上漲 3%。

For the year, landfill volumes and average price were both up 10% reflecting the growth in larger project opportunities we captured in the market in 2023. In addition, we have seen the pipeline for our unique total PFOS solution continue to grow. We believe we are the only company that can provide a fully integrated end-to-end solution to the market, which includes commercially scalable destruction. Despite no large-scale emergency response events, field service revenue was up 3% in Q4 through better cross-selling and leverage of our organization.

今年，垃圾掩埋量和平均價格均上漲了10%，反映出我們在2023 年在市場上抓住的大型專案機會的成長。此外，我們還看到我們獨特的全PFOS 解決方案的管道持續成長。我們相信我們是唯一一家能夠向市場提供完全整合的端到端解決方案的公司，其中包括商業規模的銷毀。儘管沒有發生大規模的緊急應變事件，但透過更好的交叉銷售和我們組織的槓桿作用，現場服務收入在第四季度增加了 3%。

Industrial Services revenue grew 8% in the quarter as it benefited from a strong fall turnaround season in the addition of Thompson Industrial. As I mentioned a moment ago, overall ES segment EBITDA was up an impressive 16% in Q4, more than double our revenue growth of 7% as we leverage our facilities, fix assets and workforce. For the full year, the ES margin rose 160 basis points to 24.4%. We enhanced our margins, not only from pricing, but from our cost savings programs as well as our productivity and technology initiatives.

工業服務收入本季成長 8%，受益於湯普森工業公司 (Thompson Industrial) 的加入帶來的強勁秋季扭虧為盈。正如我剛才提到的，由於我們利用我們的設施、固定資產和勞動力，整個 ES 部門 EBITDA 在第四季度增長了 16%，是我們收入成長 7% 的兩倍多。全年 ES 利潤率上升 160 個基點至 24.4%。我們不僅透過定價提高了利潤，還透過成本節約計畫以及生產力和技術措施提高了利潤。

In 2024, we will continue to seek innovative ways to apply AI analytics and greater automation to our business. For example, we are enhancing our proprietary wind system to minimize revenue leakage, eliminate our lower rental costs, apply more sophisticated pricing strategies and pursue sales opportunities more rapidly.

2024 年，我們將繼續尋求創新方法，將人工智慧分析和更高程度的自動化應用於我們的業務。例如，我們正在增強我們專有的風力系統，以最大限度地減少收入流失，消除較低的租賃成本，應用更複雜的定價策略並更快地尋求銷售機會。

Before turning it over to Mike, please turn to Slide 5 for an overview of our recently announced HEPACO acquisition. We believe that HEPACO will be a terrific addition to the company and contribute to considerable shareholder value in the coming years. It is a $400 million all-cash transaction that we currently expect to close in the first half of this year. HEPACO operates across 40 locations, 17 states and on an adjusted basis, generated about $270 million in revenue and approximately $36 million of adjusted EBITDA last year. It is an attractive deal that we expect will generate approximately $20 million in synergies after its first whole year of operation, which would equate to a 7.1x multiple. The acquisition of HEPACO gives us access to additional markets and new customers, as well as enhanced capabilities around railway and transportation responses.

在將其交給 Mike 之前，請參閱幻燈片 5，以了解我們最近宣布的 HEPACO 收購的概述。我們相信，HEPACO 將為公司帶來巨大的補充，並在未來幾年為股東帶來可觀的價值。這是一項價值 4 億美元的全現金交易，我們目前預計將在今年上半年完成。 HEPACO 在 17 個州的 40 個地點開展業務，去年調整後的收入約為 2.7 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 約為 3,600 萬美元。這是一項有吸引力的交易，我們預計在第一年營運後將產生約 2000 萬美元的協同效應，相當於 7.1 倍。收購 HEPACO 使我們能夠進入更多市場和新客戶，並增強鐵路和運輸應變能力。

We look forward to adding in approximately 1,000 employees to the Clean Harbors family. We are confident that they will benefit from our deep knowledge of Field Service business, greater scale and career opportunities. Mike, Eric and I have visited with their team right after we announced the deal and we see a very strong cultural fit that should lead to a seamless integration.

我們期待為 Clean Harbors 大家庭增添約 1,000 名員工。我們相信，他們將受益於我們對現場服務業務的深入了解、更大的規模和職業機會。麥克、艾瑞克和我在宣布交易後立即拜訪了他們的團隊，我們看到了非常強烈的文化契合度，這應該會導致無縫整合。

With that, let me turn things over to Mike to discuss SKSS and capital allocation. Mike?

接下來，讓我把事情交給 Mike 來討論 SKSS 和資本配置。麥克風？

Thanks, Eric, and good morning. Turning to SKSS on Slide 6, after a promising start in October, following the September price increase, base oil and blended pricing began to shift the other way and grew more challenging as we moved through the quarter. As a result, SKSS revenue was 7% lower year-over-year in the quarter. The weakness in base oil and blended pricing was partially offset by greater volumes sold at both base and blended oil as well as a shift to charge for oil versus a pay-for-oil average a year ago for our waste oil collection services. SKSS adjusted EBITDA declined 14% in Q4, entirely related to the more narrow spread compared to last year and the pricing slowdown we experienced over the course of the quarter.

謝謝，埃里克，早安。轉向幻燈片6 上的SKSS，在10 月份的良好開局之後，繼9 月份的價格上漲之後，基礎油和混合定價開始向另一個方向轉變，並且隨著我們進入本季度，變得更具挑戰性。因此，SKSS 本季營收年減 7%。基礎油和混合油定價的疲軟部分被基礎油和混合油銷售量的增加以及我們的廢油收集服務從一年前的平均油費轉變為按油收費的轉變所抵消。 SKSS 調整後 EBITDA 在第四季度下降了 14%，完全與去年相比利差更窄以及我們在本季度經歷的定價放緩有關。

Despite the lower year-over-year revenue, we maintained a healthy adjusted EBITDA margin of 21.7%. To feed our re-refineries, we collected 53 million gallons of waste oil in the quarter, the team worked diligently to secure gallons at the best possible price, while ensuring our plants had the feedstock they needed. As we've highlighted previously, one of our strategies for reducing the volatility of this business is to grow our blended volumes. Not only does blended oil generate more imminent dollars in base oil, it tends to be more stable because we're selling branded products such as motor oil and hydraulic fluid.

儘管營收年減，但我們仍維持了 21.7% 的健康調整後 EBITDA 利潤率。為了滿足我們的再煉油廠的需求，我們在本季度收集了5300 萬加侖的廢油，該團隊努力工作，以盡可能最好的價格獲得加侖的廢油，同時確保我們的工廠擁有所需的原料。正如我們之前強調的，我們減少該業務波動性的策略之一是增加我們的混合銷售。混合油不僅可以在基礎油中產生更多的迫在眉睫的美元，而且由於我們銷售機油和液壓油等品牌產品，它往往更加穩定。

In Q4, blended volumes increased by more than 60%. We intend to continue to focus on opportunities to sell a larger percentage of branded products going forward. Blended products sales accounted for 23% of volumes sold in Q4, up from 17% a year ago. We recognize that this business has faced challenges in 2023 as the market continued to adjust after an extraordinary 2022 and after a series of price declines and destocking by customers throughout much of 2023.

第四季度，混合銷量成長了 60% 以上。我們打算持續關注未來銷售更大比例品牌產品的機會。混合產品銷售佔第四季銷售的 23%，高於一年前的 17%。我們認識到，該業務在 2023 年面臨挑戰，因為市場在經歷了非凡的 2022 年以及 2023 年大部分時間的一系列價格下跌和客戶去庫存之後繼續調整。

Going forward, our strategy for SKSS will continue to center on affecting those areas within our control, including the price we charge for the collection of used motor oil, labor and transportation costs and re-refining production rates. We will continue to focus on the expansion of our blended products such as motor oil and hydraulic fluids. In 2024, we intend to increase sales of our blended volumes through both direct and wholesale channels. We are also moving ahead with our promising group free program we outlined on our last earnings call. We expect to launch this initiative in Q2.

展望未來，我們的 SKSS 策略將繼續集中在影響我們控制範圍內的領域，包括我們收集廢機油的價格、勞動力和運輸成本以及再精煉生產率。我們將繼續專注於擴大我們的混合產品，例如機油和液壓油。 2024 年，我們計劃透過直接和批發管道增加混合銷量。我們也正在推進我們在上次財報電話會議上概述的有前景的團體免費計劃。我們預計在第二季啟動這項措施。

Turning to Slide 7 and our capital allocation strategy. At our Investor Day last March, we shared our 5-year strategy, Vision 2027, which outlines our plan to grow both organically and through acquisition. The foundation of that strategy is to drive margin improvement each year through economies of scale are a highly leverageable network of permanent facilities, unique assets and trained personnel. We will continue to lead to increasing -- this will continue to lead to increasing cash flow generation and value creation for our shareholders.

轉向投影片 7 和我們的資本配置策略。在去年 3 月的投資者日上，我們分享了我們的 5 年策略《Vision 2027》，其中概述了我們透過有機成長和收購實現成長的計劃。該策略的基礎是透過規模經濟每年推動利潤率的提高，規模經濟是由永久性設施、獨特資產和訓練有素的人員組成的高度槓桿化的網路。我們將繼續增加——這將繼續為我們的股東帶來更多的現金流產生和價值創造。

On the M&A front, we evaluated a number of transactions during the quarter, culminating in the HEPACO agreement we announced earlier this month. We continue to see a healthy flow of potential candidates for both operating segments and will remain very active on the M&A front as we execute our Vision 2027.

在併購方面，我們評估了本季的多項交易，最終達成了本月稍早宣布的 HEPACO 協議。我們繼續看到兩個營運部門的潛在候選人的健康流動，並且在我們執行 2027 年願景時將在併購方面保持非常活躍。

In terms of growth CapEx, the largest internal investment in our history is our new Kimball, Nebraska incinerator, which is on track to open commercially later this year. We expect the original design and build to cost $180 million to $185 million. Based on our ongoing conversations with customers about Kimball and in response to their future plans, we have elected to add several enhancements into the facility at an aggregate cost of approximately $15 million. These enhancements, driven by demand will include more direct burn base and additional specialized lines designed to handle certain types of high hazardous materials.

就成長資本支出而言，我們歷史上最大的內部投資是我們位於內布拉斯加州金博爾的新焚化廠，預計今年稍後將投入商業營運。我們預計最初的設計和建造成本為 1.8 億至 1.85 億美元。根據我們與客戶就 Kimball 進行的持續對話以及針對他們未來計劃的回應，我們選擇對該設施進行多項改進，總成本約為 1500 萬美元。這些由需求驅動的改進將包括更多的直接燃燒基地和額外的專門設計用於處理某些類型的高危險材料的生產線。

These additions will enable that site to handle and process even more high-margin materials in containerized waste. We still anticipate that the new incinerator will commence operations late this year. To that end, we do expect to incur some nonrecurring startup costs related to Kimball this year. Since a onetime in nature, we likely will adjust the amount of our reported EBITDA. Difficult to estimate the exact amount today as it partly depends on our official launch date, but we know it will be several million dollars. We will report on that as we are closer to our commercial launch.

這些新增設施將使該工廠能夠處理和加工貨櫃廢棄物中利潤更高的材料。我們仍然預計新焚化廠將於今年稍後開始營運。為此，我們預計今年將產生一些與 Kimball 相關的非經常性啟動成本。由於是一次性的，我們可能會調整報告的 EBITDA 金額。今天很難估計確切的金額，因為這部分取決於我們的正式發布日期，但我們知道這將是數百萬美元。當我們接近商業發佈時，我們將對此進行報導。

We are also planning a second sizable capital project this year. It relates to our Baltimore site. We recently purchased a large parcel of land next to our existing plant and we intend to invest and upgrade that property with an eye towards consolidating -- with an eye toward consolidation of our brand service offerings, adding more recycling capabilities for our network and creating a production line for containerized manufacturing servicing our entire network.

我們也計劃今年第二個大型資本項目。它與我們巴爾的摩網站有關。我們最近在現有工廠旁邊購買了一大塊土地，我們打算投資和升級該地產，著眼於整合——著眼於整合我們的品牌服務產品，為我們的網絡增加更多的回收能力，並創建一個貨櫃製造生產線為我們的整個網路提供服務。

The total cost of the real estate and site upgrades we intend to make will total approximately $20 million. We expect to ramp up activities at that location over the course of this year.

我們打算進行的房地產和場地升級的總成本約為 2000 萬美元。我們預計今年將加強該地點的活動。

I'll let Eric do speak to our debt structure and leverage, but I'd like to conclude by emphasizing that we continue to be bullish on our growth prospects for our ES segment. We entered 2024 with considerable momentum in this segment. We expect the favorable market conditions, whether it's restoring, infrastructure spend or regulatory trends to continue to support our profitable growth plans for 2024.

我會讓艾瑞克談談我們的債務結構和槓桿，但我想最後強調，我們繼續看好 ES 部門的成長前景。進入 2024 年，我們在這一領域的發展勢頭強勁。我們預計有利的市場條件，無論是恢復、基礎設施支出或監管趨勢，都將繼續支持我們 2024 年的獲利成長計畫。

Our backlog and dialogue with customers gives us confidence about demand this year. Our project pipeline is strong, our pricing strategies are working. Industrial Services coming off a record year, and we expect that business to continue to grow, and field services will greatly benefit from the addition of HEPACO once that closes. After challenging 2023, we see SKSS returning to growth and profitability in 2024 with market pricing appeared to have stabilized following a decline during the end of last year as well as a host of growth projects I outlined earlier.

我們的積壓訂單以及與客戶的對話讓我們對今年的需求充滿信心。我們的專案儲備很強大，我們的定價策略也很有效。工業服務迎來了創紀錄的一年，我們預計業務將繼續成長，一旦 HEPACO 關閉，現場服務將大大受益於 HEPACO 的加入。在經歷了 2023 年的挑戰之後，我們預計 SKSS 將在 2024 年恢復增長和盈利，市場定價在經歷去年底的下滑以及我之前概述的一系列增長項目後似乎已趨於穩定。

We have much to be excited about in both Environmental Services and SKSS.

在環境服務和 SKSS 方面，我們有很多值得興奮的地方。

And with that, let me turn the call over to our CFO, Eric Dugas, Eric?

接下來，讓我將電話轉給我們的財務長 Eric Dugas），艾瑞克？

Thanks, Mike, and good morning, everyone. Turning to the income statement on Slide 9. As Eric and Mike outlined, Environmental Services segment posted strong Q4 results to finish off a record year. Revenues across our service lines in ES were up from the prior year and the demand picture for our environmental service offerings remains strong. The profitable growth in our ES segment this quarter more than offset the decline in SKSS and resulted in a 14% year-over-year EBITDA growth for the entire company.

謝謝麥克，大家早安。轉向幻燈片 9 上的損益表。正如 Eric 和 Mike 所概述的那樣，環境服務部門公佈了強勁的第四季度業績，結束了創紀錄的一年。我們在環境服務領域的服務線收入比前一年有所成長，我們的環境服務產品的需求仍然強勁。本季 ES 部門的獲利成長抵消了 SKSS 的下滑，整個公司的 EBITDA 年成長 14%。

Adjusted EBITDA was in line with our expectations at $254.9 million and up more than $30 million from Q4 a year ago. Our adjusted EBITDA margin in the quarter was 19%, up 150 basis points and driven by improvements in the ES margin that Eric Gerstenberg outlined earlier. Gross margin in the quarter was 31%, an increase of 70 basis points from a year ago. For the year, our gross margin was 30.7%.

調整後 EBITDA 為 2.549 億美元，符合我們的預期，比去年第四季增加了 3,000 萬美元以上。我們本季調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 19%，成長了 150 個基點，這得益於 Eric Gerstenberg 先前概述的 ES 利潤率的改善。該季度毛利率為31%，較去年同期成長70個基點。今年，我們的毛利率為30.7%。

As we move into 2024, we are focused on executing several initiatives to drive greater productivity improvements and operational efficiencies, which we expect will continue to drive margin expansion. SG&A expense as a percentage of revenue was 12.4% in Q4, which is 80 basis points better than the prior year's quarter. For the full year, we also landed at 12.4% as we remain focused on managing SG&A head count and offsetting wage and other inflationary pressures.

進入 2024 年，我們將重點放在多項舉措，以推動生產力和營運效率的進一步提高，我們預計這將繼續推動利潤率擴張。第四季的 SG&A 費用佔營收的百分比為 12.4%，比去年同期高出 80 個基點。全年來看，我們的成長率也達到了 12.4%，因為我們仍然專注於管理 SG&A 員工人數並抵消薪資和其他通膨壓力。

For 2024, we anticipate our SG&A expense as a percentage of revenue to be at a similar or slightly lower level. Depreciation and amortization in Q4 came in at $98.3 million. For the full year, our depreciation and amortization was $365.8 million, up from 2022, which reflects the Thompson acquisition and incremental amortization resulting from increased landfill volumes in 2023.

2024 年，我們預期 SG&A 費用佔收入的百分比將處於相似或略低的水平。第四季的折舊和攤提為 9,830 萬美元。全年的折舊和攤銷為 3.658 億美元，高於 2022 年，這反映了湯普森收購和 2023 年垃圾掩埋量增加帶來的增量攤銷。

For 2024, we expect depreciation and amortization in the range of $300 million to $390 million (sic, see presentation page 17, $380 million to $390 million). Income from operations in Q4 was $147.3 million, up 16% from the prior year. For the full year, income from operations was $612.4 million. Net income for the quarter was $98.3 million, resulting in earnings per share of $1.81. For full year 2023, our EPS was $6.95 per share.

到 2024 年，我們預計折舊和攤銷將在 3 億美元至 3.9 億美元之間（原文如此，請參閱簡報第 17 頁，3.8 億美元至 3.9 億美元）。第四季營運收入為 1.473 億美元，比上年增長 16%。全年營運收入為 6.124 億美元。該季度淨利潤為 9,830 萬美元，每股收益為 1.81 美元。 2023 年全年，我們的每股收益為 6.95 美元。

Turning to the balance sheet highlights on Slide 10. Cash and short-term marketable securities at quarter end were $551 million, up more than $130 million from September. Our balance sheet remains in great shape. We ended 2023 with total debt of $2.3 billion, a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio of 1.9x and having no significant debt amounts coming due until 2027. Our overall weighted average pretax cost of debt at year-end was 5.3%.

轉向投影片 10 中的資產負債表要點。季末現金和短期有價證券為 5.51 億美元，比 9 月增加超過 1.3 億美元。我們的資產負債表仍然保持良好狀態。截至 2023 年末，我們的總債務為 23 億美元，淨債務與 EBITDA 比率為 1.9 倍，並且在 2027 年之前沒有大量債務到期。年末我們的總體加權平均稅前債務成本為 5.3%。

In December, we successfully completed an amendment to our term loan that lowered our borrowing rate by 25 basis points and representing annualized interest rate savings of nearly $2.5 million. In connection with the HEPACO transaction, we plan to add incremental borrowings to this term loan as part of our deal financing. Clean Harbors will continue to responsibly manage our leverage position and overall capital structure with an eye towards creating the highest overall return for shareholders over the long term and maintaining flexibility to ensure that we can respond when acquisition opportunities arise.

12 月，我們成功完成了定期貸款修訂，將借款利率降低了 25 個基點，年化利率節省近 250 萬美元。關於 HEPACO 交易，我們計劃在該定期貸款中增加增量借款，作為我們交易融資的一部分。 Clean Harbors 將繼續負責任地管理我們的槓桿狀況和整體資本結構，著眼於為股東創造最高的長期整體回報，並保持靈活性，以確保我們能夠在收購機會出現時做出反應。

Turning to cash flows on Slide 11. Cash provided from operations in Q4 was $278.9 million. CapEx net of disposals was $105.9 million, up from the prior year due to the investments in our incineration network, including Kimball that accounted for $25.4 million of our Q4 CapEx. In the quarter, adjusted free cash flow was a record of $173 million. For the full year 2023, net CapEx totaled $412.7 million, in line with our expectations. The Kimball incinerator accounted for $82.6 million of the full year spend. For the year, adjusted free cash flow was $321.9 million, up 11% in 2023. If you add back the Kimball spend -- excuse me, up 11% from 2022. If you add back the Kimball spend to that total, we would have exceeded $400 million of adjusted free cash flow.

轉向幻燈片 11 上的現金流。第四季營運提供的現金為 2.789 億美元。由於我們對焚化網路的投資，扣除處置後的資本支出為 1.059 億美元，較上年增加，其中 Kimball 占我們第四季資本支出的 2,540 萬美元。本季度，調整後自由現金流達到創紀錄的 1.73 億美元。 2023 年全年，淨資本支出總計 4.127 億美元，符合我們的預期。 Kimball 焚化廠的全年支出為 8,260 萬美元。今年，調整後的自由現金流為 3.219 億美元，2023 年增長 11%。如果你再加上 Kimball 支出——對不起，比 2022 年增長 11%。如果你把 Kimball 支出加回總額，我們將調整後自由現金流超過4 億美元。

For 2024, we expect our net CapEx to be in the range of $390 million to $420 million. This level of spend includes approximately $65 million to complete the Kimball construction including the planned enhancements and approximately $20 million for the expansion of the Baltimore facility, which Mike discussed earlier. During Q4, we bought back approximately 211,000 shares of stock at a total cost of $33.2 million or an average price of $157 a share.

2024 年，我們預計淨資本支出將在 3.9 億美元至 4.2 億美元之間。這項支出水準包括約 6,500 萬美元用於完成 Kimball 建設（包括計劃中的改進），以及約 2,000 萬美元用於擴建巴爾的摩設施（麥克之前討論過）。第四季度，我們回購了約 211,000 股股票，總成本為 3,320 萬美元，平均價格為每股 157 美元。

For the full year, we bought back approximately 328,000 shares or $51 million of Clean Harbors stock. In December, our Board authorized a $500 million expansion of our repurchase plan. We currently have $554 million of authorized and available repurchases under this program.

全年，我們回購了約 328,000 股或價值 5,100 萬美元的 Clean Harbors 股票。 12 月，我們的董事會批准擴大我們的回購計畫 5 億美元。目前，我們根據該計劃擁有 5.54 億美元的授權和可用回購。

Moving to Slide 12. Based on our Q4 and 2023 results, along with current market conditions for both of our operating segments, we expect 2024 adjusted EBITDA in the range of $1.05 billion to $1.11 billion, with a midpoint of $1.08 billion. This guidance assumes no contribution from HEPACO. Once we conclude the regulatory process and close on this transaction, we will update our guidance accordingly.

轉到投影片12。根據我們第四季和2023 年的業績，以及我們兩個營運部門目前的市場狀況，我們預計2024 年調整後EBITDA 在10.5 億美元至11.1 億美元之間，中位數為10.8億美元。本指南假設 HEPACO 沒有貢獻。一旦我們完成監管程序並完成本次交易，我們將相應更新我們的指導。

Looking at our annual guidance from a quarterly perspective, we're expecting Q1 adjusted EBITDA growth of 2% to 3% with our ES segment performance offsetting current market conditions in SKSS and higher corporate costs. Similar to 2023, some severe weather in January this year impacted our disposal networks, some branch locations and customers. Despite these challenges, we still expect to deliver a strong quarter of profitable growth in the ES segment in Q1. For full year 2024 adjusted EBITDA guidance will translate to our reporting segments as follows: in Environmental Services, we expect adjusted EBITDA at the midpoint of our guidance to increase approximately 5% to 7% from full year 2023. Demand for all of our service businesses remains consistently strong.

從季度角度來看我們的年度指引，我們預計第一季調整後 EBITDA 將成長 2% 至 3%，我們的 ES 部門業績抵銷了 SKSS 的當前市場狀況和更高的企業成本。與2023年類似，今年1月的一些惡劣天氣影響了我們的處置網絡、一些分行和客戶。儘管面臨這些挑戰，我們仍預期第一季 ES 領域將實現強勁的季度獲利成長。 2024 年全年調整後EBITDA 指引將轉化為我們的報告分部，如下：在環境服務領域，我們預計調整後EBITDA 指引中點將比2023 年全年增長約5% 至7%。對我們所有服務業務的需求保持一貫的強勁。

In addition, demand for our disposal and recycling facilities continues to enable us to execute on our pricing strategies, capture more volumes and drive a more favorable mix into our network. For SKSS, we expect full year 2024 adjusted EBITDA at the midpoint of our guide to increase 6% to 8% from 2023 with a challenging year we had in 2023 and the continued uncertainty around global commodity markets, we are assuming some pricing pressures continue in our forecasting of this segment. Given some of the promising initiatives we have underway, such as our Group III project and increasing blended sales, we expect to hear substantial progress in this segment and towards greater long-term stability.

此外，對我們的處置和回收設施的需求繼續使我們能夠執行我們的定價策略，捕獲更多數量並推動我們的網路中更有利的組合。對於SKSS，我們預計2024 年全年調整後EBITDA（以我們指南的中點計算）將比2023 年增長6% 至8%，2023 年是充滿挑戰的一年，而且全球大宗商品市場持續存在不確定性，我們假設2023 年將繼續面臨一些定價壓力。我們對該細分市場的預測。鑑於我們正在進行的一些有希望的舉措，例如我們的第三組項目和增加混合銷售，我們預計該領域將取得實質進展並實現更大的長期穩定性。

In our Corporate segment, at the midpoint of our guide, we expect negative adjusted EBITDA to be up 3% to 5% this year from 2023. This reflects a full year of Thompson industrial costs, and rising expenses in areas such as insurance and wages and benefits, partly offset by our wide range of cost savings initiatives.

在我們的企業部門，在我們的指南的中點，我們預計從2023 年起，今年負調整後的EBITDA 將增長3% 至5%。這反映了湯普森全年的工業成本，以及保險和工資等領域費用的上升和效益，部分被我們廣泛的成本節約措施所抵銷。

For adjusted free cash flow, our expectations for 2024 is for a range of $340 million to $400 million or a midpoint of $370 million. As mentioned earlier around CapEx plans, we have some internal growth investments we are planning this year, starting with the approximately $65 million to complete the Kimball construction as well as the $20 million for the Baltimore expansion. If you add back the Kimball and Baltimore spend, the midpoint of our adjusted free cash flow guidance would be more than $450 million or over 40% of our current adjusted EBITDA midpoint expectation.

對於調整後的自由現金流，我們對 2024 年的預期為 3.4 億美元至 4 億美元，中間值為 3.7 億美元。正如前面提到的資本支出計劃，我們今年計劃進行一些內部成長投資，首先是大約 6500 萬美元用於完成 Kimball 建設，以及 2000 萬美元用於巴爾的摩擴建。如果再加上金博爾和巴爾的摩的支出，我們調整後的自由現金流指引的中點將超過 4.5 億美元，即超過我們目前調整後 EBITDA 中點預期的 40%。

In conclusion, Q4 was a great finish to a record year in our ES segment. Trends coming into 2024 in this segment remained favorable. We continue to see substantial demand across our network, not just within our incinerators, but our TSDFs, landfills and recycling operations as well. We ended the year with steady volumes and a healthy backlog. Our positive facilities outlook is further supported by an encouraging level of interest across all of our services businesses.

總而言之，第四季為我們的 ES 細分市場創紀錄的一年畫上了圓滿的句號。進入 2024 年，該領域的趨勢仍然有利。我們繼續看到整個網路的大量需求，不僅在我們的焚化爐內，而且在我們的 TSDF、垃圾掩埋場和回收業務中。我們以穩定的銷售和健康的積壓結束了這一年。我們所有服務業務令人鼓舞的興趣進一步支持了我們積極的設施前景。

Within SKSS, the market appears to be stabilizing as we approach the summer driving season. Overall, we expect to generate profitable growth in both operating segments in 2024 and continue to execute against our Vision 2027 goals.

在 SKSS 內，隨著夏季駕駛季節的臨近，市場似乎正在趨於穩定。總體而言，我們預計到 2024 年這兩個營運部門都將實現獲利成長，並繼續執行我們的 2027 年願景目標。

With that, operator, please open the call for questions.

那麼，接線員，請打開提問電話。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Noah Kaye with Oppenheimer.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自諾亞·凱（Noah Kaye）與奧本海默（Oppenheimer）的對話。

Looking at 1Q '24 specifically, I would love to understand a little bit better the segment expectations. I know historically, the company doesn't guide. But given the comments around whether and of course, the swing that we saw in SKSS this past quarter, I would just love to understand a little bit more and put any finer point on what your expectations are for each of those segments?

具體來看 24 年第一季度，我很想更了解該細分市場的預期。我知道從歷史上看，公司不提供指導。但考慮到上個季度我們在 SKSS 中看到的波動是否以及當然的評論，我只是想了解更多一點，並更詳細地說明您對每個細分市場的期望是什麼？

I'll take that one. And as we just communicated, we see Q1 2% to 3% greater than last year. When you break that down by segment, obviously, kind of the momentum we're seeing in the Environmental Services segment, we continue to kind of expect that in 2024. As I mentioned in my prepared comments, we did still have some weather challenges in the quarter as we did last year. But I think with our pricing initiatives and other things we still see in that quarter, particularly a high single-digit growth rate kind of quarter-over-quarter, approaching that 10%.

我會接受那個。正如我們剛剛傳達的那樣，我們預計第一季的銷量將比去年增長 2% 至 3%。當你按細分市場細分時，顯然，我們在環境服務領域看到了這種勢頭，我們仍然預計到2024 年會出現這種情況。正如我在準備好的評論中提到的，我們確實仍然面臨一些天氣挑戰本季與去年相同。但我認為，透過我們的定價舉措和其他因素，我們在該季度仍能看到，特別是季度環比高個位數成長率，接近 10%。

With SKSS, we entered 2023 last year still on the strong tailwinds of 2022. So Q1, as we look at SKSS for Q1 of 2024, down below last year, but it should pick up as we move throughout the year.

憑藉SKSS，我們去年進入了2023 年，仍然受到2022 年的強勁推動。因此，當我們看到2024 年第一季的SKSS 時，第一季的水平低於去年，但隨著我們全年的發展，它應該會有所回升。

Yes. I'm leery of doing math on the call. Yes, that gets me to a pretty steep drop in SKSS year-over-year, as you're suggesting. And so the thought is that as we get into the balance of the year on SKSS, maybe you can talk through the Group III initiative, the blended ones and kind of what the self-help looks like this year for SKSS, as I recall, you also had some production issues in the third quarter and lapping those should support as well. But maybe just help us understand some of the drivers to get to that 6% to 8% EBITDA growth.

是的。我對在通話中做數學持懷疑態度。是的，正如您所建議的，這讓我的 SKSS 同比大幅下降。因此，我們的想法是，當我們進入 SKSS 的年度餘額時，也許您可以討論第三組倡議、混合倡議以及今年 SKSS 的自助情況，我記得，您在第三季度也遇到了一些生產問題，而這些問題也應該得到支持。但也許只是幫助我們了解實現 6% 至 8% EBITDA 成長的一些驅動因素。

I'll start again and Mike, please pick up on some of the prepared comments you shared. Yes, obviously, a little bit of a steep decline in Q1, as I mentioned. As the year rolls out, as we said, the Group III project does come in kind of in the summer time frame. When you kind of look at the cadence for the full year, we kind of see Q2 on the SKSS business, getting towards that flattish point on a year-over-year basis. And then as we move into Q3, Q3 last year in SKSS is really where we saw that big drop and so as we feel, as we move into Q3, assuming prices remain where they are today, we should have a good year-over-year comp there.

我將重新開始，邁克，請採納您分享的一些準備好的評論。是的，顯然，正如我所提到的，第一季出現了一些急劇下降。正如我們所說，隨著時間的推移，第三組項目確實會在夏季進行。當你看一下全年的節奏時，我們會看到 SKSS 業務的第二季度，與去年同期相比趨於持平。然後，當我們進入第三季度時，去年SKSS 的第三季度我們確實看到了大幅下降，因此，當我們進入第三季度時，我們認為，假設價格保持在今天的水平，我們應該會有一個很好的年成長-那裡的年補償。

The last point I'd make before I let Mike add on is just from a blended sales perspective, great momentum kind of in Q4 from a blended sales perspective. We'll continue to drive those initiatives in 2024. And I think that will really help as we move into the summer driving season in the latter half of that season.

在讓麥克補充之前，我要說的最後一點是從混合銷售的角度來看，從混合銷售的角度來看，第四季的勢頭強勁。我們將在 2024 年繼續推動這些舉措。我認為，當我們在該季節後半段進入夏季駕駛季節時，這確實會有幫助。

Mike, anything to add?

麥克，有什麼要補充的嗎？

So one thing I'd say on this is that what was a surprise to us in Q4, and really kind of all year, and when we put this in the guide, is a bit of a kind of a discount, spot discount to Motiva posted -- Group II posted pricing. And that discount is always there, but it was seen very, very wide in Q4. And so the growth rates as we go into 2024, the growth rates -- we're not assuming that kind of recovers anytime soon. And so when you look at kind of Q1 year-over-year, it is, as Eric said, a high teens, low 20 type of decline and so that kind of puts us a little behind the curve as far as getting to some growth for the year.

因此，我要說的一件事是，第四季度對我們來說是一個驚喜，而且全年都是如此，當我們將其納入指南時，這對 Motiva 來說是一種折扣、現貨折扣發布——第二組發布定價。這種折扣始終存在，但在第四季的折扣幅度非常非常大。因此，當我們進入 2024 年時，成長率——我們並不認為這種成長率會很快恢復。因此，當你觀察第一季的同比情況時，正如埃里克所說，這是一種高10 歲、低20 歲的下降類型，因此，就實現某種增長而言，這讓我們有點落後於曲線。今年。

We still want to grow as I said in my remarks, mid- to high single digits for the year, but that Q1 is still going to be a drag. And so we see it picking up recently, and that's great. But we're just going to head start with a bit of -- with some headwinds going into the year. And on the Group III, that's been great. The file has been running. We're saving the plant up to run. That's a $3 million to $4 million winner in 2024. That's not a -- that's going to be great over some time horizon. But in 2024, it's pretty modest. The plants are running well. They have recovered quite a bit, but January was still tough on those plants as they were for the incinerator, as Eric referred in his prepared remarks.

正如我在演講中所說，我們仍然希望實現今年中高個位數的成長，但第一季仍將是個拖累。所以我們看到它最近有所回升，這很棒。但我們只是要以一些不利因素進入今年。在第三組，這非常棒。該文件已運行。我們正在讓工廠繼續運作。到 2024 年，這將是 300 萬至 400 萬美元的贏家。這在一段時間內不會是偉大的。但到了 2024 年，這個數字就相當溫和了。工廠運作良好。他們已經恢復了很多，但正如艾瑞克在他準備好的演講中提到的那樣，一月份對這些工廠來說仍然很艱難，就像對焚燒廠來說一樣。

If I could sneak in one more question about the 80% of the business that's growing high single digits entering 1Q. You mentioned PFOS.

如果我能再問一個問題，關於進入第一季時 80% 的業務以高單位數成長的情況。您提到了全氟辛烷磺酸。

87%.

87%。

Thank you for the precision. The commentary in the call mentioned PFOS. The total PFOS solution, and I think it was even in the release as well. Can you maybe just mention for us what the PFOS-related revenues were in 2023? And what you're thinking in 2024 could be? And how contingent that is on EPA action?

謝謝你的精確度。電話評論中提到了 PFOS。完整的 PFOS 解決方案，我認為它甚至也在發布中。您能否為我們介紹一下 2023 年 PFOS 相關收入是多少？您認為 2024 年會怎樣？這對 EPA 的行動有多大影響？

Noah, this is Eric Gerstenberg. I'll take that one. Our overall revenues in 2023 was in the range of $50 million to $70 million. And our pipeline -- our pipeline continues to grow across our business with opportunities from customers trying to leverage everything that we can offer. And as we've said in the past, offering our total PFOS solutions is really around how we can provide sampling services, analysis of PFOS in groundwater as well as contaminated soils. How we can leverage our remediation team? How we can do drinking water and industrial water? And then provide really that overall commercially offering disposal through our landfills and our incinerators. So it's really the pipeline has grown probably about 20% to 25% year-over-year and continues to grow as we get our solutions out into the market and as things -- as talk continues out there. So a little -- a lot of continued opportunity there for our network.

諾亞，這是埃里克·格斯坦伯格。我會接受那個。 2023 年我們的總收入在 5,000 萬美元至 7,000 萬美元之間。我們的管道—我們的管道在我們的業務中不斷成長，客戶有機會嘗試利用我們所能提供的一切。正如我們過去所說，提供全氟辛烷磺酸整體解決方案實際上是圍繞如何提供採樣服務、地下水和受污染土壤中的全氟辛烷磺酸分析。我們如何利用我們的修復團隊？飲用水和工業用水如何做？然後透過我們的垃圾掩埋場和焚化爐提供真正的整體商業處置。因此，管道實際上已經同比增長了 20% 到 25% 左右，隨著我們將解決方案推向市場以及人們的討論不斷進行，管道還在繼續增長。我們的人脈有很多持續的機會。

We've talked a lot about -- One last thing though we have talked about PFOS over the past few years, and obviously, people have been waiting for it, and we're actually starting to see it now. And Eric's observation is about trying to provide a full PFOS solution, which is as far as end disposal, which is scalable and ready today, we're really excited about that. And as Eric said, that pipeline is very strong going into 2024. So more to come on that. I think there's a lot of good things we've been talking about for a number of years that are trying to materialize, clearly.

我們已經談論了很多——最後一件事，儘管我們在過去幾年裡談論了全氟辛烷磺酸，顯然，人們一直在等待它，而我們現在實際上已經開始看到它了。艾瑞克的觀察是試圖提供一個完整的全氟辛烷磺酸解決方案，就最終處置而言，它是可擴展的並且今天已經準備就緒，我們對此感到非常興奮。正如埃里克（Eric）所說，到 2024 年，這一渠道將非常強大。所以還會有更多的事情發生。我認為我們多年來一直在談論的許多美好的事情正在努力實現，顯然。

Our next question comes from the line of Tyler Brown with Raymond James.

我們的下一個問題來自泰勒布朗和雷蒙詹姆斯的對話。

First off, just congratulations on the TRIR numbers. I know those are very important to you and obviously your employees. And I get that a safer workplace is very important for a variety of reasons. But Eric, is there any financial implications of a more consistent, call it, safety record? Is there any kind of impact on go-forward accruals at all? Or is that not the case?

首先，恭喜 TRIR 數字。我知道這些對您以及您的員工來說非常重要。我了解到，出於多種原因，更安全的工作場所非常重要。但是埃里克，更一致的安全記錄是否會產生任何財務影響？對未來應計項目有任何影響嗎？或者事實並非如此？

Certainly, as we continue to lower our TRIR and perform safely across the organization, reducing risk and our insurance costs are evident as well. We focus a lot as well on our transportation compliance and how we reduce incidents across our network. So overall, there is as time continues to progress, and we continue to drive our safety and transportation compliance across our network, there is financial improvement that comes along with that.

當然，隨著我們繼續降低 TRIR 並在整個組織中安全地執行任務，風險和保險成本的降低也是顯而易見的。我們也非常關注運輸合規性以及如何減少網路中的事故。總體而言，隨著時間的不斷發展，我們將繼續推動整個網路的安全和運輸合規性，隨之而來的是財務方面的改善。

Tyler, the only thing I'd add to that, Eric, is absolutely right, but the challenge is those costs have gone up. So although we've had like less incidents and less injuries, the cost per is growing at a pretty healthy clip. And so that's been a cost -- kind of in our financial statements for the past few years, and it will be in 2024 as well.

泰勒，我唯一要補充的是，艾瑞克，絕對正確，但挑戰是這些成本已經上升。因此，儘管我們的事故和傷害有所減少，但每項成本卻以相當健康的速度成長。因此，這一直是我們過去幾年財務報表中的一項成本，2024 年也將如此。

We've seen a lot of inflation insurance on the transportation side, you can talk about that at another time. But Eric, as a little -- just a question on the EBITDA bridge for '24. So can we just talk about some of the puts and takes? It goes little bit back to Noah's question, too. But I think at the midpoint, you're looking for a $65 million to $70 million increase, but won't just simply the Q3 incinerator and refinery issues not recurring, be something like $25 million of that $65 million plus you've got the base III initiative. I know we had a really, really tough weather back in '23. I know there's some here in '24. But just talk about the puts and takes. It feels like maybe something is working against you, that I'm not totally seen or are you just being conservative?

運輸方面的通膨保險我們看到很多，你可以到時候再說。但埃里克，只是一個關於 24 年 EBITDA 橋樑的問題。那我們可以只討論一些看跌期權嗎？這也有點回到諾亞的問題。但我認為在中間，你希望增加6500 萬至7000 萬美元，但不僅僅是第三季度焚燒爐和煉油廠問題不再重複，而是6500 萬美元中的2500 萬美元，再加上你已經得到了基地 III 倡議。我知道 23 年我們的天氣非常非常艱難。我知道 24 年這裡有一些。但只談談投入和採取。感覺好像有什麼東西對你不利，我沒有完全被看到，或者你只是保守？

Thanks, Tyler. Good questions. You're spot on some of the things you noted last year. I do think as we lay the guidance out there, there is a little bit of conservative baked in. We're seeing very strong demand. We're continuing to see that. But we are recognizing that there's a little uncertainty out there from an overall macroeconomic perspective, and we're trying to be a little bit conservative and recognize that in our guidance. I think when you talk about Q3, in particular, and some of the challenges we saw last year from the plant disruptions, first, I would say that the plants are up and running well.

謝謝，泰勒。好問題。你去年註意到的一些事情是正確的。我確實認為，當我們制定指導意見時，存在一些保守的情緒。我們看到了非常強勁的需求。我們將繼續看到這一點。但我們認識到，從整體宏觀經濟角度來看，存在一些不確定性，我們正在努力保持保守一點，並在我們的指導中認識到這一點。我認為，當您特別談論第三季度，以及我們去年因工廠中斷而面臨的一些挑戰時，首先，我會說工廠運作良好。

But we do have -- in the coming year here, we're going to continue to make some investments, some winterization type projects that we did last year as well and that are paying off for us right now. There's also some other incremental projects, kind of some 1- and 5-year type turnarounds that we have planned for next year. And so we do have to kind of build that in and that helps to kind of offset some of the uptick from the things that you mentioned. But when you look at the ES segment next year, we're going to continue, I think, to have strong organic growth. I think that's a big piece of the guidance going forward. That's going to be in the tails of continued strong pricing initiatives and some of the efficiencies and things on the cost side that we're driving that I mentioned in my comments. You'll have a few more months of Thompson.

但我們確實有——在來年，我們將繼續進行一些投資，一些我們去年也做過的防凍類型項目，現在正在為我們帶來回報。還有一些其他增量項目，例如我們計劃明年進行的一些 1 年期和 5 年期週轉項目。因此，我們確實必須將其納入其中，這有助於抵消您提到的一些事情的上升。但當你看看明年的 ES 細分市場時，我認為我們將繼續保持強勁的有機成長。我認為這是未來指導的重要組成部分。這將是我在評論中提到的持續強勁的定價舉措以及我們正在推動的一些效率和成本方面的結果。你還會有幾個月的湯普森。

And really, I think you will see some improvements from more time in the incinerators and facilities overall. I guess the last thing I mentioned just on the ES side is going back to the volumes, we're continuing to see really good volumes that don't necessarily need to go through our incineration network, right? So the Safety-Kleen branch business, tremendous revenue growth there this year. You'll see it in our financials. But a lot of that waste we can handle outside the incinerators through our TSDFs or other means. So plenty of room for growth there. So those are some of the big areas in ES. SKSS, obviously, if you do the math, a rather modest growth profile next year, 6%, 7%, really that's growing based upon increased blended volumes. We do have the Group III and then some better running in some of the facilities, especially in the back half of the year. So those are the 2 segments and then corporate really kind of inflationary pressures as the business grows. So hopefully, that provides a little more color for you, Tyler?

事實上，我認為您會在焚燒爐和設施整體上花費更多的時間來看到一些改進。我想我在 ES 方面提到的最後一件事是回到卷，我們繼續看到非常好的捲，不一定需要通過我們的焚燒網絡，對嗎？因此，Safety-Kleen 分支業務今年的收入出現了巨大的成長。您將在我們的財務數據中看到這一點。但我們可以透過 TSDF 或其他方式在焚化爐外處理大量廢棄物。那裡有很大的成長空間。這些是 ES 的一些重要領域。 SKSS，顯然，如果你算一下，明年的成長情況相當溫和，6%、7%，實際上是根據混合量的增加而成長的。我們確實有第三組，然後在一些設施中運行得更好，特別是在今年下半年。這些是兩個細分市場，隨著業務的成長，企業確實面臨通膨壓力。希望這能為你提供更多的色彩，泰勒？

That's very helpful. Lots of pieces there. Just my last one here on the HEPACO deal. Can you just talk a little more about the $20 million of synergies, I guess. Did they direct much waste into your technical assets? Or is that an opportunity? Again, just kind of any more color on the $20 million, how quickly that comes?

這非常有幫助。那裡有很多碎片。這是我關於 HEPACO 交易的最後一篇。我想您能多談談 2000 萬美元的綜效嗎？他們是否對您的技術資產造成了大量浪費？或者說這是一個機會？再說一遍，2000 萬美元的金額還有更多的色彩嗎？這個到來的速度有多快？

Sure, Tyler. This is Eric Gerstenberg, I'll help to answer that. One of the big opportunities that we see with HEPACO is that they provided a national emergency response call center that they leveraged their branches on the East Coast, but also provides us for an opportunity to leverage Clean Harbors' branches on the West Coast of the U.S. So that is a large opportunity that we can penetrate our existing field service branches through the customers that they manage emergency responses for. So that's a big opportunity.

當然，泰勒。我是埃里克‧格斯滕伯格，我來幫忙回答這個問題。我們在 HEPACO 看到的重大機會之一是，他們利用其在東海岸的分支機構提供了一個國家緊急響應呼叫中心，同時也為我們提供了利用 Clean Harbors 在美國西海岸的分支機構的機會。因此，這是一個巨大的機會，我們可以透過他們管理緊急應變的客戶來滲透我們現有的現場服務分公司。所以這是一個很大的機會。

There are also areas that we haven't had a lot of growth in like rail, some of the rail customers that they have and transportation that they have. So large opportunities to grow our businesses there and be able to leverage our people and equipment and their people and equipment and branches that they have that are in locations, geographical locations that we are not. So really a great team there, just an excellent fit. Really excited about a few meetings that we've had with their team and really excited about the complement of synergies that they will have to our network.

還有一些領域我們沒有取得很大的成長，像是鐵路、他們擁有的一些鐵路客戶和他們擁有的運輸。在那裡發展我們的業務有很大的機會，並且能夠利用我們的人員和設備，以及他們在我們不在的地點、地理位置上擁有的人員、設備和分支機構。所以那裡確實是一支很棒的團隊，非常適合。我們對與他們的團隊舉行的幾次會議感到非常興奮，並對他們對我們網路的協同作用感到非常興奮。

Our next question comes from the line of Tobey Sommer with Truist.

我們的下一個問題來自 Tobey Sommer 與 Truist 的對話。

This is Jasper Bibb on for Tobey. Looks like the incinerator and landfill price both accelerating year-over-year versus the third quarter. Is there anything that drove that beyond mix? And how are you thinking about the ability to hold disposal price in the '24 as, I guess, inflation more broadly seems to be coming down? .

我是托比的賈斯柏‧比伯。與第三季相比，焚化爐和垃圾掩埋場的價格似乎都比去年同期上漲。除了混合之外還有什麼因素可以推動這一點嗎？我猜想，隨著更廣泛的通貨膨脹似乎正在下降，您如何看待在 24 世紀保持處置價格的能力？ 。

I'll take that one, Jasper. Just in terms of the pricing that we saw kind of accelerating from Q3 into Q4, part of that was driven by some of the planned disruptions we had in Q3 and just the utilization much stronger utilization, probably a better mix in Q4 drove that year-over-year or quarter-to-quarter. I think when you look into 2024, as I mentioned earlier, on the pricing front, given the demand, given the discussions we're having with customers, we will continue to price in a way that we can meet or even exceed a little bit of the inflation. I think last week, you saw some inflation figures come out. It's tending to be a little bit persistent and more persistent than perhaps we thought, and we'll continue to price accordingly along with cost cutting. Forgive me, I forget the second part of your question there.

我要那個，賈斯柏。就定價而言，我們看到從第三季度到第四季度有所加速，部分原因是我們在第三季度計劃中的一些中斷以及利用率的提高，可能是第四季度更好的組合推動了當年的發展—年比或季比。我認為，當你展望 2024 年時，正如我之前提到的，在定價方面，考慮到需求，考慮到我們與客戶的討論，我們將繼續以能夠滿足甚至超過一點的方式定價的通貨膨脹。我想上週你看到了一些通膨數據。它往往比我們想像的更持久，而且我們將繼續相應地定價並削減成本。請原諒，我忘了你問題的第二部分。

No, you covered both of them. Just wanted to ask another one on HEPACO acquisition. It seems like a fairly large asset for the Field Services space. Could you characterize for us like how fragmented is that market today? And how you might be thinking about the potential for revenue synergies there with additional consolidation?

不，你涵蓋了它們兩個。只是想詢問另一位有關 HEPACO 收購的問題。對於現場服務領域來說，這似乎是一項相當大的資產。您能為我們描述一下當今市場的分散程度嗎？您可能會如何考慮透過額外整合來實現收入綜效的潛力？

Tobey, this is Eric. I'll take that one. So tremendous opportunities there with their revenue base, as we said, they did about $270 million of revenue. A lot of it was with customers that we did not have deep penetration with. They have branch locations that we are not -- overall, it's -- the field service market is pretty large over a $3 billion to $4 billion market that we're continuing to grow in. So their footprint overlaying with our footprint creates a lot of opportunity, but it's still a fragmented market that we have an opportunity to grow in.

托比，這是埃里克。我會接受那個。正如我們所說，他們的收入基礎帶來了巨大的機會，他們的收入約為 2.7 億美元。其中很多是我們沒有深入滲透的客戶。他們有我們沒有的分店——總的來說，現場服務市場相當大，超過了我們正在繼續成長的 30 億至 40 億美元的市場。因此，他們的足跡與我們的足跡重疊，創造了很多機會，但它仍然是一個分散的市場，我們有機會在其中成長。

And just to clarify, last one. Are some of the weather items that you talked about hitting the 1Q guide for SKSS? Or is that more of an environmental services impact?

只是為了澄清，最後一個。您談到的一些天氣項目是否會出現在 SKSS 的第一季指南中？還是這更多的是對環境服務的影響？

Yes. I would say that's more environmental services related. The decrease that we had in January did impact some of our collections as well as our plant operations there. As we've talked about before, we did do a substantial investment in 2023 in winterizing one of our incineration trains down in El Dorado, Arkansas. We still have another one to do this year. So that one was impacted along with some of our Deer Park facility. So we -- it's largely environmental services.

是的。我想說這比較與環境服務相關。我們一月份的產量下降確實影響了我們的一些產品系列以及我們在那裡的工廠運作。正如我們之前談到的，我們確實在 2023 年進行了大量投資，對阿肯色州埃爾多拉多的一列焚燒列車進行防凍處理。今年我們還有另一件事要做。因此，它與我們鹿園的一些設施一起受到了影響。所以我們——主要是環境服務。

Our next question comes from the line of Jerry Revich, Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的傑瑞·雷維奇（Jerry Revich）。

In my observes, I'm wondering if you could just expand on the margin outlook for this year and the margin expansion that you're targeting. Can you just talk about what proportion of that is driven by improved contract terms versus underlying pricing and the other moving pieces, if you wouldn't mind fleshing that out, please?

根據我的觀察，我想知道您是否可以擴大今年的利潤率前景以及您的目標利潤率擴張。您能談談其中有多少比例是由改進的合約條款與基本定價和其他變動因素驅動的嗎？如果您不介意具體說明的話？

Jerry, this is Eric. I'll start. Our margin expansion is really driven by a number of things. Obviously, we drove pricing to make sure that we're offsetting inflation. We also have driven a number of efficiency projects, cost controls, externalizing, transportation and maintenance and rentals across that network. Really, in long-haul transportation, most of our long-haul transportation is all internalized currently.

傑瑞，這是艾瑞克。我開始吧。我們的利潤率擴張其實是由許多因素推動的。顯然，我們推動定價是為了確保抵消通貨膨脹。我們也推動了整個網路的許多效率項目、成本控制、外部化、運輸、維護和租賃。確實，長途運輸目前我們大部分長途運輸都是國際化的。

So that's been a big impact to our margin improvements for routing waste and managing it through our network. So the -- when you look at the overall improvement in margins year-over-year, we continue to have a longer-term aspirational goal of getting to that 30% EBITDA margins in that business. And we think that we continue to have a path to get there. And that's between cost efficiencies, routing, management of our facilities, how to leverage our relationships with our customers even better to manage all of their collective waste streams, we think we can get there.

因此，這對我們透過網路路由廢棄物和管理廢棄物的利潤提高產生了重大影響。因此，當你看到利潤率同比整體改善時，我們仍然有一個長期的理想目標，即在該業務中實現 30% 的 EBITDA 利潤率。我們認為我們仍然有實現這一目標的道路。這涉及成本效率、路線安排、設施管理、如何更好地利用我們與客戶的關係來管理他們所有的集體廢物流，我們認為我們可以實現這一目標。

And then can I ask you on the Safety-Kleen business? Obviously, we had some softer pricing over the course of the quarter, but you still put up really attractive margins this year at the trough of the cycle. Can you just talk about taking a step back in addition to IMO 2020, just the competitive structure improvement that you've seen in this market that's driving such attractive economics at a point in the cycle where obviously, base oil pricing is not terribly attractive.

那麼我可以問一下有關Safety-Kleen 業務的問題嗎？顯然，我們在本季度的定價有所放緩，但今年在周期的低谷，您仍然提供了非常有吸引力的利潤。您能否談談除了IMO 2020 之外的退一步，您在這個市場中看到的競爭結構的改善正在推動如此有吸引力的經濟增長，而在周期的某個時刻，基礎油定價顯然並不是非常有吸引力。

This is Mike. I think that the I'm glad you brought that point up, I think that $1 billion business or a $900 million business that is a 21% margin is a pretty good business. It throws off a fair amount of cash flows, and I think it's very accretive to our business. So although we're down a bit from where we thought we were going to be, I still think it's very effective. And I think I really want to make sure the team understands that they did an excellent job of managing everything that they could control. There was, as I said earlier, a huge disconnect between the pricing of Group II base oil in the spot market that's out there.

這是麥克。我認為，我很高興你提出了這一點，我認為 10 億美元的業務或 9 億美元的業務，利潤率為 21%，是一項相當不錯的業務。它釋放了大量的現金流，我認為這對我們的業務非常有幫助。因此，儘管我們距離預期有所下降，但我仍然認為這非常有效。我想我真的很想確保團隊明白他們在管理他們可以控制的一切方面做得非常出色。正如我之前所說，現貨市場第二類基礎油的定價之間存在巨大脫節。

So I do think that the team did a nice job of kind of managing what they could manage. Go hard on charge-for-oil, drive gallons into our re-refineries and the re-refineries produced high-quality base and blended oil. I think if you look at 2024, the blended oil has been much -- has been a good story and we continue to drive that. We're up 6%. These are pretty small numbers from 17% to 24%, but still a meaningful difference as far as our profitability. And I think as you go into 2024, we continue to grow that blended oil business. I do think that's going to be a good growth driver for us as well as the group III, as we talked about before, as well as solving some of our production problems that we had in 2023.

所以我確實認為團隊在管理他們能管理的事情方面做得很好。大力推行按油收費，將加侖駛入我們的再精煉廠，再精煉廠生產出高品質的基礎油和調和油。我認為，如果你看看 2024 年，混合油已經是一個很好的故事，我們將繼續推動這一趨勢。我們上漲了 6%。這些數字很小，從 17% 到 24%，但就我們的獲利能力而言，仍然是一個有意義的差異。我認為，進入 2024 年，我們將繼續發展混合油業務。我確實認為這將成為我們以及第三組的良好成長動力，正如我們之前討論的那樣，並解決我們在 2023 年遇到的一些生產問題。

And it sounds like the industry is acting appropriately in terms of charging for collections based on your prior comments. Is that right, Mike?

根據您先前的評論，聽起來該行業在收取館藏費用方面採取了適當的行動。是這樣嗎，麥克？

Yes, it's always a battle. It's always a battle to go and fight for that business, to try to win that business, but we do think we've been able to drive that type of -- drive from PFO to CFO is hard to do. I think the team did a good job doing just that. And without losing material (inaudible).

是的，這總是一場戰鬥。為該業務而奮鬥、努力贏得該業務始終是一場戰鬥，但我們確實認為我們已經能夠推動這種類型的發展——從 PFO 到 CFO 的推動是很難做到的。我認為團隊在這方面做得很好。並且不會遺失材料（聽不清楚）。

Our next question comes from the line of Jim Ricchiuti with Needham.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jim Ricchiuti 和 Needham 的對話。

Mike, maybe just a follow-up on that last point. Do you have a target in mind that you'd like to see blended represent of the business looking out through '24?

麥克，也許只是最後一點的後續。您心中是否有一個目標，希望看到企業的混合代表在 24 世紀展望未來？

Yes. I think that's it's a good question, Jim. I think that we talked a long time ago about switching the business around it. It's going to be a grind. I don't think in our guide, we had improving modestly. We don't have it going to 50-50, it's 24% in Q4. We are growing modestly through the course of the year. I don't have a set target in mind. I do think -- the 2 things we're trying to do is get more blended oil and get more oil under contract versus spot pricing. And both of those things have helped -- will help drive the stability of that business going forward because it doesn't move as fast as base oil does. I don't have a set goal over a time horizon, but certainly, growth in that will help stabilize that business and drive more profitability into SKSS.

是的。我認為這是一個很好的問題，吉姆。我想我們很久以前就討論過圍繞它轉變業務。這將是一場磨難。我不認為在我們的指南中，我們有適度的改進。我們不會讓它達到 50-50，第四季是 24%。我們在這一年中一直在適度增長。我心裡沒有設定目標。我確實認為 - 我們正在嘗試做的兩件事是獲得更多的混合油以及根據合約價格而不是現貨定價獲得更多的石油。這兩件事都有助於推動該業務向前發展的穩定性，因為它的發展速度不如基礎油。我沒有設定一個時間範圍內的目標，但可以肯定的是，這方面的成長將有助於穩定該業務並為 SKSS 帶來更多利潤。

How much conservatism is built in, do you think, on the group III? I mean it sounds like you're assuming some modest contribution in '24. Presumably, that starts to scale going into '25.

您認為第三組的保守程度有多少？我的意思是，聽起來你在 24 年做出了一些微薄的貢獻。據推測，這種情況會在 25 世紀開始擴大。

Yes, I think that's a reasonable number. I think $3 million to $4 million, which I talked about earlier, I don't think that's a crazy answer. I do think it takes -- we have to do a lot of routing, a lot of routing software to ensure we're getting the right gallons and making sure we're filling our plants without causing a ton of transportation cost to make the math work. And so I do think that's a reasonable expectation for 2025, But I don't think it's overly conservative or overly aggressive.

是的，我認為這是一個合理的數字。我認為 300 萬到 400 萬美元，我之前談過，我不認為這是一個瘋狂的答案。我確實認為這需要——我們必須進行大量的路由，大量的路由軟體，以確保我們獲得正確的加侖數，並確保我們在填充我們的工廠時不會造成大量的運輸成本來進行數學計算工作。所以我確實認為這是對 2025 年的合理預期，但我不認為它過於保守或過於激進。

And then just one follow-up, just on HEPACO. I realize the acquisition hasn't closed yet, but I wonder when you talk about additional markets that this gets you into, deeper into customers that you don't get into as actively as the rest of the business? Or is it geographic and how predictable is this business? If you can give us some color on that?

然後只有一個後續行動，就在 HEPACO 上。我意識到收購尚未完成，但我想知道當您談論這可以讓您進入的其他市場時，更深入地了解您不像其他業務那樣積極進入的客戶嗎？或者是地理因素以及該業務的可預測性如何？您能給我們一些說明嗎？

Sure, Jim. This is Eric. I'll take that one again. So the -- when we look at the overlay of their branch network, as mentioned earlier, they have about 40 different branch locations and about 25 of those branch locations are in geographies that we firmly don't have Field Service branches. So a nice match there. Additionally, the one key market that they've been a big part of is providing support services, transfer services, emergency response services for large rail companies. And that's a great market for us to continue to build with the HEPACO team into our platform and provide large-scale emergency response field services as well as what we've already provided, which is the disposal services.

當然，吉姆。這是埃里克。我會再拿那個。因此，當我們查看其分支機構網路的覆蓋範圍時，如前所述，他們有大約 40 個不同的分支機構位置，其中大約 25 個分支機構位於我們堅決沒有 Field Service 分支機構的地區。所以這是一場精彩的比賽。此外，他們一直佔據重要地位的關鍵市場是為大型鐵路公司提供支援服務、轉運服務和緊急應變服務。這對我們來說是一個巨大的市場，可以繼續與 HEPACO 團隊一起建立我們的平台，並提供大規模的緊急應變現場服務以及我們已經提供的處置服務。

So a nice network there. They also have done an excellent job of penetrating small emergency response work within transportation providers nationally, even up into Canada. They've used a subcontractor network, particularly on the West Coast and up in Canada, which overlays perfectly with the branch opportunities we have. So a number of areas that really help our organization grow and work together.

那裡的網路很好。他們還在全國運輸提供者內部（甚至進入加拿大）滲透小型緊急應變工作方面做得非常出色。他們使用了分包商網絡，特別是在西海岸和加拿大，這與我們擁有的分支機構機會完美重疊。因此，許多領域確實有助於我們的組織成長和合作。

I'd add to that, Jim, is that if you think of urgent response, it's pretty lumpy, but it's actually not lumpy. They do many, many small scale emergency responses every day, just like we did, frankly. And so that is a pretty stable business.

吉姆，我想補充一點，如果你想到緊急回應，它會非常不穩定，但實際上並不穩定。坦白說，他們每天都會做很多很多小規模的緊急回應，就像我們所做的那樣。所以這是一項相當穩定的業務。

Obviously, I can't tell when the next fill is going to happen, but I know there's going to be a lot to happen. And so when we give out the guidance for 2024, we didn't assume kind of a large-scale, a multimillion dollar type of project, we never do. If those things happen, those are upside to the model historically. And so whether that be the avian flu for us, whether that be the BP oil's bill, those are kind of upside to any model. We don't budget or guide assuming those types of large-scale responses. These are just normal run rate type of work to happen kind of every day at both the Clean Harbors business and the HEPACO business do themselves. Although it sounds a little lumpy, it is not lumpy.

顯然，我無法判斷下一次填充何時發生，但我知道會發生很多事情。因此，當我們給出 2024 年的指導時，我們並沒有假設這是一個大規模、數百萬美元類型的項目，我們從來沒有這樣做過。如果這些事情發生，那麼從歷史上看，這些對模型來說都是有利的。因此，無論這對我們來說是禽流感，還是英國石油公司的帳單，這些對任何模型來說都是有利的。我們不會為假設這些類型的大規模應對措施制定預算或指導。這些只是 Clean Harbors 業務和 HEPACO 業務每天都會發生的正常運作率類型的工作。雖然聽起來有點疙瘩，但其實不疙瘩。

Our next question comes from the line of David Manthey with Baird.

我們的下一個問題來自 David Manthey 和 Baird 的對話。

First question is a general one on your end markets. So looking at the verticals over the past several years, chems and refining are up, manufacturing is down. Maybe you could talk about current business conditions and what your expectations are for '24? And then in that important chems vertical, is incrementally natural -- incrementally lower natural gas better, like is $1.50 better than $2.50? Or is just low in general, low enough?

第一個問題是關於您的終端市場的一般性問題。因此，縱觀過去幾年的垂直產業，化工和煉油業呈上升趨勢，而製造業則呈下降趨勢。也許您可以談談當前的業務狀況以及您對 24 世紀的期望是什麼？然後，在重要的化學垂直領域，天然氣的價格逐漸降低是否更好，例如 1.50 美元比 2.50 美元更好？還是只是整體較低，夠低？

Yes, Dave, I'll start, and I'm sure the others will add in. But certainly, lower natural gas helps. It helps continue to facilitate more onshoring because the chemical manufacturing, manufacturing in general can help reduce their costs, and it makes it even better for them to continue to onshore. We're across all the verticals that we manage, and it's quite expensive, as you know. We have not seen any slowdown, even though we have a little bit of a trepid outlook to the industrial production slowing, the chemical vertical, the refinery business, the manufacturing that we've seen, the onshoring continues -- pipeline continues to be growing in every one of our business units supported by all those different verticals.

是的，戴夫，我會開始，我相信其他人也會加入。但當然，較低的天然氣含量會有所幫助。它有助於繼續促進更多的在岸生產，因為化學製造、一般製造業可以幫助降低他們的成本，這使得他們更好地繼續在岸生產。如你所知，我們橫跨我們管理的所有垂直領域，而且成本相當昂貴。我們沒有看到任何放緩，儘管我們對工業生產放緩、化工垂直行業、煉油業務、我們所看到的製造業、在岸業務繼續增長的前景抱有一點恐懼——管道繼續增長我們的每一個業務部門都受到所有這些不同垂直領域的支持。

So strength there across the board that we see. The chemical business as we mentioned in our script, we've added additional capital investment in Kimball. That's really around that chemical industry and how that's been growing and how it's spurred off additional waste streams. Our relationships with our customers have continued to grow more solid. They want to make sure that for all of their growth that they have reliable disposal capabilities, disposal assets and secured capacity. So that's all working together well with what our plan has been here.

我們看到了全面的實力。正如我們在腳本中提到的化學業務，我們在金博爾增加了額外的資本投資。這實際上是圍繞化學工業及其增長方式以及它如何產生額外的廢物流。我們與客戶的關係持續變得更加牢固。他們希望確保在其所有成長過程中擁有可靠的處置能力、處置資產和安全能力。所以這一切都與我們的計劃配合得很好。

Okay. Not to belabor this point, but I'm wondering in terms of the natural gas, like in the short term, is there some linearity? Or are you just talking in general like if it's in a range of $1.50 to $3.50, that's low enough to get people to change behaviors on a long-term basis. I'm just wondering with natural gas down here, does that give you a tailwind over the next 3 to 6 months? Or is it not? Is it more of a secular long-term relationship?

好的。不想贅述這一點，但我想知道就天然氣而言，就像在短期內一樣，是否存在某種線性關係？或者您只是籠統地說，如果價格在 1.50 美元到 3.50 美元的範圍內，那麼這個價格足以讓人們長期改變行為。我只是想知道這裡的天然氣是否會在未來 3 到 6 個月內為您帶來推動力？或者不是嗎？它更像是一種世俗的長期關係嗎？

I think we view it, Dave, more as a long term.

戴夫，我認為我們將其視為一個長期目標。

And then the second question, I think it was Eric Dugas that noted you've got a couple of once in 5-year turnarounds coming up and in light of that and just in light of the coming year, is there any indication you can give us on what your planned downtime schedule might look like, obviously, subject to change every year. But if we were to think about when some of these chunkier projects are going to happen, when should we think about those? .

然後是第二個問題，我認為是埃里克·杜加斯（Eric Dugas）指出，您將面臨幾次五年一次的周轉，鑑於這一點以及明年，您是否可以給出任何跡像我們會告訴您您計劃的停機時間表可能會是什麼樣子，顯然，每年都會發生變化。但如果我們要考慮這些較厚重的項目何時會發生，我們什麼時候該考慮這些？ 。

Yes, Dave, I'll start, and then Eric Gerstenberg will probably add a little color as needed. But I did mention a couple of projects. Overall, I think year-over-year, when you look at our downtime right now, we're forecasting a pretty flat downtime pattern. In terms of the large projects that I noted, I think right now, we're looking at Q2 is when it's scheduled kind of early on in Q2.

是的，戴夫，我會開始，然後埃里克·格斯坦伯格可能會根據需要添加一點顏色。但我確實提到了幾個項目。總的來說，我認為與去年同期相比，當你看到我們現在的停機時間時，我們預測停機時間模式相當平坦。就我提到的大型專案而言，我認為現在我們正在關注第二季度，它是在第二季度早些時候安排的。

Eric, I don't know if you want to add to that, but?

艾瑞克，我不知道你是否想補充這一點，但是？

Yes, Dave, we have a pretty extensive project that we have to do down at our Houston incinerator and that project, it actually is going to be 8 years that we're going to be doing it. It's redoing our back-end wastewater treatment system, which supports both the incineration trains. So we look to do that. We're going to be starting that project in early Q2. Team has done an awesome job of planning it out, and we have a good plan in place there. And so we'll be executing on that in the second quarter and getting that behind us, along with some additional air pollution control and winterization projects.

是的，戴夫，我們有一個相當廣泛的項目，我們必須在我們的休士頓焚燒廠進行這個項目，實際上我們將花費 8 年的時間來完成它。它正在重做我們的後端廢水處理系統，該系統支援兩個焚燒列車。所以我們希望這樣做。我們將在第二季初開始該專案。團隊在規劃方面做得非常出色，我們也有一個很好的計畫。因此，我們將在第二季度執行該計劃，並完成一些額外的空氣污染控制和防凍項目。

Our next question comes from the line of Michael Hoffman with Stifel.

我們的下一個問題來自邁克爾·霍夫曼（Michael Hoffman）和斯蒂菲爾（Stifel）的對話。

Jim, you're somewhere there in the background. I know you are. The seasonal turnaround business, how do I compare that year-over-year? That $2.5 billion or $2 billion of revenues before HEPACO, sort of $1.4 billion industrial maintenance, services and cleaning and $600 million is field services. How do I think about that $1.4 billion? What's that activity look like?

吉姆，你就在後台的某個地方。我知道你是。季節性週轉業務，我該如何與去年同期進行比較？這 25 億美元或 HEPACO 之前的 20 億美元收入，約 14 億美元是工業維護、服務和清潔，還有 6 億美元是現場服務。我該如何看待這 14 億美元？那個活動是什麼樣的呢？

We actually think Michael or look at this year as a stronger industrial turnaround plan up in Canada. A lot of that their turnarounds didn't happen in 2023. So we have a really strong pipeline up in Canada. U.S. overall, pretty well flat although seeing some early momentum here as we go into March of the staffing that they need to support their turnarounds in the U.S. side.

我們實際上認為邁克爾或將今年視為加拿大更強大的工業轉型計劃。他們的許多轉變並沒有在 2023 年發生。所以我們在加拿大有一個非常強大的管道。美國整體情況相當平穩，儘管在進入三月時看到了一些早期勢頭，他們需要支持美國方面的扭虧為盈。

So overall, we would say that the turnaround season, our turnaround in 2024 seem to be incremental in our industrial business.

因此，總的來說，我們會說，在扭虧為盈的季節，我們在 2024 年的扭虧為盈似乎是我們工業業務的增量。

And then when I think about field services, correct me if I'm wrong, and about $100 million is remediation stuff. But the rest of it is response to lots of little things. How does the HEPACO business look like to like? Is that going to be response to lots of little things? That's sort of the same thing. It's just a lot of small little $5,000 $10,000 type of cleanups and they happen year in and year out.

然後，當我想到現場服務時，如果我錯了，請糾正我，大約 1 億美元是補救措施。但其餘的都是對很多小事的反應。 HEPACO 業務怎麼樣？這是對很多小事的反應嗎？這是同樣的事情。這只是很多小規模的清理工作，花費 5,000 美元到 10,000 美元，而且年復一年地進行。

Yes, Michael, that $600 million is independent of our remediation work that we do. Remediation is above and beyond that $600 million. It is a lot of continuous emergency response, small in scale. We didn't have a large-scale emergency response event, as you know, in 2023. So it's routine services. We support a wealth of utilities throughout the country. Utilities can be -- the work there can be driven by weather events across the board. But it's happening, it's continuous. It's repeatable. And so continued growth there as things get more and more turbulent with weather across the country.

是的，邁克爾，這 6 億美元與我們所做的修復工作無關。修復費用超出了 6 億美元。這是大量連續的緊急應變，規模較小。如您所知，2023 年我們沒有發生大規模的緊急應變事件。所以這是一項常規服務。我們為全國各地的大量公用事業提供支援。公用事業可以－那裡的工作可以全面由天氣事件驅動。但它正在發生，而且是持續的。它是可重複的。隨著全國各地天氣變得越來越動盪，那裡的經濟持續成長。

The only thing I'd add to that, Michael, is that HEPACO very similar. We met, as Eric mentioned, now with the team a couple of times now, and the business is very similar to kind of our business. They do have -- as Eric noted in his prepared remarks, a good focus on rail and transportation response services. That's an area where we think we can really leverage and drive going forward. But I think that it is a -- I think it's very similar as far as the day-to-day small still on side of the road of we go.

Michael，我唯一要補充的是 HEPACO 非常相似。正如艾瑞克所提到的，我們現在與團隊見過幾次面，業務與我們的業務非常相似。正如埃里克在他準備好的演講中指出的那樣，他們確實非常關注鐵路和運輸響應服務。我們認為這是一個我們可以真正利用並推動前進的領域。但我認為，就我們路邊的日常小事而言，我認為它非常相似。

Switching gears, SKSS where are you in recovering the spread? I get if base oil prices move sharp and quick there's a lag to getting the spread corrected. But where are we in the recovering of the spread where you can adjust the front end. So now you've got the spread back in line.

切換策略，SKSS 你在哪裡恢復傳播？我知道，如果基礎油價格大幅快速波動，那麼價差修正就會出現滯後。但我們在恢復價差方面處於什麼位置，可以調整前端。所以現在你的點差又恢復正常了。

We're working through that. I think that we had -- we're guiding in Q1, as we got a question earlier about Q1 guide for SKSS that we're in the middle of doing that kind of as we speak. And I think that gets back to normal as you look at kind of Q2 and the rest of the year.

我們正在解決這個問題。我認為我們在第一季度進行了指導，因為我們早些時候收到了有關 SKSS 第一季指南的問題，正如我們所說，我們正在做這種事情。我認為，當你看看第二季和今年剩餘時間時，情況就會恢復正常。

And then can you just -- what's the interest expense supposed to be in 2024?

然後你可以－ 2024 年的利息支出應該是多少？

120-ish? Give me 1 second to find that number exactly, Michael.

120左右？邁克爾，請給我 1 秒鐘的時間來準確找到該數字。

While that's happening, did I do my math correctly on the run here, midpoint of guidance, SKSS to be $185 million, segment EBITDA, ES would be $1,170 million and corporate overhead is about $275 million.

當這種情況發生時，我是否正確地計算了這裡的運行情況，指導中點，SKSS 為 1.85 億美元，部分 EBITDA、ES 為 11.7 億美元，公司管理費用約為 2.75 億美元。

You're definitely in the ballpark of that. The midpoint is $115 million to $120 million on the interest expense there. Yes, really just kind of the rollover of some higher interest costs -- higher interest rates....

你肯定在其中。利息支出的中位數為 1.15 億至 1.2 億美元。是的，實際上只是一些更高的利息成本的展期——更高的利率......

And then not to belabor this, but shouldn't we think about SKSS more about dollars of profit versus a margin because it's a spread business.

然後，不再贅述，但我們不應該多考慮 SKSS 的美元利潤與利潤，因為它是一個價差業務。

Totally agree with that, Michael, I think that it's just -- we always -- that strong all year, and I think that, that margin is still pretty good. That's why we made the observation.

完全同意這一點，邁克爾，我認為我們一整年都表現強勁，而且我認為這個利潤率仍然相當不錯。這就是我們進行觀察的原因。

I just want to make sure I'm not trying to chase revenues as much as I'm trying to chase the quality of the operating leverage.

我只是想確保我不會像追求經營槓桿的品質那樣追求收入。

That's right. .

這是正確的。 。

Our next question comes from the line of William Grippin with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的威廉‧格里平 (William Grippin)。

My first one, sorry if I missed it, but what are you assuming in the guide for 2024 for the new incinerator and then what do you think that could be at the full run rate, just given the enhancements you've discussed here?

我的第一個，抱歉，如果我錯過了，但是您在 2024 年新焚燒爐指南中假設了什麼，然後考慮到您在這裡討論的增強功能，您認為在全運行率下可能會是什麼？

Yes, sure. I'll take that one. This is Eric Dugas. So in our guide, as we said, we expect to start the plant up in late Q4. In the guide, there's really minimal kind of EBITDA given the expectations. One thing we did talk about in Mike's prepared comments, is the fact that we will have some drag for start-up costs and things of that nature here in Q4, really depending upon the timing -- excuse me, in 2024, depending on the timing of hiring folks and the ultimate kind of start-up of the plant. So we'll talk about those going forward. Certainly don't expect them to be more than $10 million, probably $10 million or less when we talk about those things. And like I said, we'll talk about it going forward. .

是的，當然。我會接受那個。這是埃里克·杜加斯。因此，正如我們在指南中所說，我們預計該工廠將在第四季末啟動。在該指南中，考慮到預期，EBITDA 確實很少。我們在麥克準備好的評論中確實談到的一件事是，我們將在第四季度對啟動成本和此類性質的事情產生一些拖累，這實際上取決於時間- 對不起，在2024 年，這取決於僱用人員的時機以及工廠的最終啟動方式。所以我們將討論未來的事情。當我們談論這些事情時，當然不要期望它們超過 1000 萬美元，可能是 1000 萬美元或更少。就像我說的，我們將繼續討論它。 。

As you roll out the new incinerator and you think about long term, we would expect, and I think we stated this before, the plant will be able to generate roughly $40 million of EBITDA when it's fully turned on based upon today's rates. Again, this year, kind of minimal. Next year, we expect to ramp up, Eric, maybe 25,000 to 30,000 tonnes, so probably halfway there and then have the thing be at full capacity kind of in 2025 at that run rate I just mentioned.

當您推出新的焚燒爐並考慮長期目標時，我們預計，並且我認為我們之前已經說過，根據今天的費率，工廠完全啟動後將能夠產生大約 4000 萬美元的 EBITDA。同樣，今年，有點最小。艾瑞克，明年我們預計產量可能會增加 25,000 噸到 30,000 噸，所以可能會增加一半，然後以我剛才提到的運行速度在 2025 年達到滿載生產。

Still in the 2025, 2026 -- capacity of 50,000 to 60,000 tons.

仍是在2025年、2026年－產能5萬噸至6萬噸。

Got it. So that $40 million still holds just even with the additional investments you discussed?

知道了。那麼即使加上您討論的額外投資，4000 萬美元仍然有效嗎？

Yes. (inaudible)

是的。 （聽不清楚）

On the Group III initiative here, how are you thinking about that? Is it potential margin expansion opportunity? Or incremental EBITDA. And I know you talked about, I think, $3 million to $4 million here in 2024. But obviously, as that ramps, just curious what you see as the opportunity there? And then how are you seeing competition for the higher-quality UMO that you'll need to feed that plant.

關於這裡的第三組倡議，您是如何看待的？這是潛在的利潤擴張機會嗎？或增量 EBITDA。我知道你談到了 2024 年 300 萬至 400 萬美元。但顯然，隨著這個數字的增加，我只是好奇你認為那裡的機會是什麼？那麼您如何看待為該植物提供所需的更高品質 UMO 的競爭。

Yes, William, I'll answer that. The Group III is -- it doesn't take a lot additional effort to collect higher quality UMO. The plant runs as it always does. There's no incremental investment needed. It's really more of a technology and ensuring that we get the right UMO gallons to fill our plant. There is some competition for that, but there's always competition for higher quality UMO. I don't think that's going to be a gate to our growth. We do think that, that Group III does provide anywhere from $1 to $2 of incremental profit as we look at this business going out. How this ramp is really kind of up to us and getting kind of some self-help using a sell-side terminology ever before that is trying to get those plants kind of segregated because once you start a plant in Group III, you really can't start going back and forth.

是的，威廉，我會回答這個問題。第三組是－不需要花費太多額外的努力來收集更高品質的 UMO。工廠照常運作。無需增量投資。這實際上更像是一項技術，確保我們獲得正確的 UMO 加侖來填充我們的工廠。對此存在一些競爭，但對於更高品質的 UMO 總是存在競爭。我不認為這會成為我們成長的大門。我們確實認為，當我們考慮這項業務的開展時，第三組確實提供了 1 到 2 美元的增量利潤。這個斜坡如何真正取決於我們，並使用以前的賣方術語來獲得一些自助，試圖將這些工廠隔離，因為一旦你在第三組中建立工廠，你真的可以'不要開始來回。

It takes a huge amount of cleanup work to kind of get that plant kind of up and running to run Group III. And once you start Group III, you really can't stop it. So we want to make sure that our systems and processes work well before we start expanding that. So that's going to take some time. That's going to take some time. But the gallons are there. We certainly have the plants that can do it. We know how to do it. We've done some pilots, as we talked about back in the Q3 call. It worked well. We just got to systematize it better because we just can't -- we just can't do it in a pilot forever. So that's going to be 2024 exercise. It's going to be to really systematize this so that we can make sure we're consistently placing the right gallons to keep the plants running -- to keep the plant in New Hampshire as we go forward to other plants to produce Group III.

需要進行大量的清理工作才能使該工廠啟動並運行第三組。一旦你開始第三組，你就真的無法阻止它。因此，在開始擴展之前，我們希望確保我們的系統和流程運作良好。所以這需要一些時間。這需要一些時間。但加侖就在那裡。我們當然擁有可以做到這一點的工廠。我們知道該怎麼做。正如我們在第三季電話會議中討論的那樣，我們已經進行了一些試點。效果很好。我們必須更好地系統化它，因為我們不能——我們不能永遠在試點中做到這一點。這將是 2024 年的演習。這將是真正的系統化，這樣我們就可以確保我們始終如一地投入正確的加侖來保持工廠運轉——在我們轉向其他工廠生產第三組產品的同時，保持新罕布什爾州的工廠。

I think just to add to that, William, just overall this year, we look to convert anywhere from 4 million to 6 million gallons UMO to good quality Group III. Over the long term, we've really identified about 20 million to 25 million gallons of our collection -- our current collections that can be segregated, properly managed, properly through the right refinery material and produce at Group III.

我想補充一點，William，今年總體而言，我們希望將 400 萬至 600 萬加侖的 UMO 轉換為優質的 III 組。從長遠來看，我們確實確定了大約 2000 萬至 2500 萬加侖的收藏品——我們目前的收藏品可以透過正確的煉油廠材料進行隔離、妥善管理，並在第三組生產。

Our final question comes from the line of John Mazzoni with Wells Fargo.

我們的最後一個問題來自富國銀行的約翰·馬佐尼 (John Mazzoni)。

I'll save for a really quick one. Just in terms of the kind of AI analytics and the technology. Could you talk about what really -- what inning we're in and kind of opposed from this proprietary, say, wind systems or other types of like monitoring. Is there a longer term Internet of Things opportunity? And again, if this is kind of early days, it would be just helpful just to frame kind of what you're looking at and what the kind of evolving landscape could be?

我會存錢買一個非常快的。僅就人工智慧分析和技術的類型而言。你能談談我們真正所處的階段以及這種專有技術（例如風系統或其他類型的監控）的反對嗎？物聯網是否存在更長期的機會？再說一遍，如果現在還處於早期階段，那麼框架一下你所看到的內容以及不斷變化的景觀可能會是什麼樣子就會有所幫助？

Yes, John, I'll start. This is Mike. I'm glad you asked the question. I think that AI -- we've done a lot over the past few years, we've done a fair amount of robotic process automation, whether that be invoices, whether that be billing, whether that be vendor management. And now we're using it around profiling, around programming. I mean I do see it internet of things coming, but I think we're getting a lot of benefit already today around RPA and then ultimately in AI. Have we done generative AI and done all that? I think we're still working on that. But I do think that the organization is in front of the curve, not behind the curve around our adoption of RPA and AI. And I'm really excited given the size of the company and the scale of the company and the need to kind of get there, we have to stay in front of that. And we continue to make substantive investments in IT and AI to drive that type of growth going forward.

是的，約翰，我要開始了。這是麥克。我很高興你問了這個問題。我認為人工智慧——過去幾年我們做了很多工作，我們做了相當多的機器人流程自動化，無論是發票、計費還是供應商管理。現在我們在分析和程式設計方面使用它。我的意思是，我確實看到了物聯網的到來，但我認為我們今天已經從 RPA 以及最終在人工智慧方面獲得了許多好處。我們已經完成了生成式人工智慧並完成了這一切嗎？我認為我們仍在努力。但我確實認為，在我們採用 RPA 和人工智慧方面，該組織處於領先地位，而不是落後於潮流。考慮到公司的規模和公司的規模以及實現這一目標的需要，我真的很興奮，我們必須保持領先。我們繼續對 IT 和人工智慧進行大量投資，以推動這種類型的成長。

Mr. Gerstenberg, I would now like to turn the floor back over to you for closing comments.

格斯坦伯格先生，我現在想請您發表結束語。

Thanks for joining us today. Management will be participating in several upcoming IR events this quarter, starting with the JPMorgan High Yield Conference next week and then the Raymond James conference the following week. We look forward to seeing some of you at these and some of the upcoming subsequent events after that. Thank you.

感謝您今天加入我們。管理層將參加本季即將舉行的幾項投資者關係活動，首先是下週的摩根大通高收益會議，然後是下週的雷蒙德詹姆斯會議。我們期待在這些活動以及之後即將舉行的一些後續活動中見到你們。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation, and have a wonderful day.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。