Colliers International Group Inc (CIGI) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Colliers International second quarter investors conference call. Legal counsel requires us to advise that the discussion scheduled to take place today may contain forward-looking statements that involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties. Actual results may be materially different from any future results, performance or achievements contemplated in the forward-looking statements.

歡迎參加高力國際第二季投資者電話會議。法律顧問要求我們告知，計劃於今天進行的討論可能包含涉及已知和未知風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中預期的任何未來結果、績效或成就有重大差異。

Additional information concerning factors that could cause actual results to materially differ from those in the forward-looking statements is contained in the company's annual information form as filed with the Canadian Securities Administrators and in the company's annual report on Form 40-F as filed with the US Securities and Exchange Commission. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded.

有關可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果存在重大差異的因素的更多資​​訊包含在公司向加拿大證券管理局提交的年度資訊表以及公司向加拿大證券管理局提交的40-F 表格年度報告中。提醒一下，今天的通話正在錄音。

Today is Thursday, August 1, 2024. And at this time, for opening remarks and introductions, I would like to turn the call over to the Global Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Jay Hennick. Please go ahead, sir.

今天是 2024 年 8 月 1 日，星期四。此時，我想將會議轉給全球董事長兼執行長傑伊·亨尼克 (Jay Hennick) 先生進行開場演講和介紹。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, operator. Good morning, and thanks for joining us for the second quarter conference call. I'm Jay Hennick, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the company. With me today is Chris McLernon, CEO of Real Estate Services; and Christian Mayer, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，接線生。早安，感謝您參加我們的第二季電話會議。我是傑伊‧亨尼克，公司董事長兼執行長。今天和我在一起的是房地產服務公司執行長 Chris McLernon；以及我們的財務長克里斯蒂安·梅耶爾 (Christian Mayer)。

As always, this call is being webcast and is available in the Investor Relations section of our website, along with a presentation slide deck. During the quarter, Colliers delivered solid results with growth across all service lines and segments. Leasing revenues exceeded expectations, while capital markets saw modest growth for the first time in 24 months, albeit from a relatively low bar.

與往常一樣，本次電話會議正在進行網路直播，並可在我們網站的投資者關係部分以及簡報投影片上查看。本季度，高力集團所有服務線和細分市場均實現了成長，並取得了穩健的業績。租賃收入超出預期，資本市場 24 個月來首次出現小幅成長，儘管起點相對較低。

With lower interest rates, greater availability of debt and the narrowing of bid-ask spreads, we anticipate the deal activity and therefore, sales volumes for Colliers should begin to recover from here. As expected, our high-value recurring service lines, outsourcing and advisory and investment management continued to deliver solid and predictable growth during the quarter.

隨著利率下降、債務可用性增加以及買賣價差縮小，我們預計交易活動將會增加，因此高力的銷售應該會開始恢復。正如預期的那樣，我們的高價值經常性服務線、外包、諮詢以及投資管理在本季繼續實現穩健且可預測的成長。

Assets under management were slightly over $96 billion. Since our business continues to meet expectations, we're maintaining our financial outlook for the year as Christian will elaborate on shortly.

管理資產略高於 960 億美元。由於我們的業務繼續滿足預期，我們維持今年的財務前景，克里斯蒂安很快就會詳細闡述。

Earlier this week, we completed the previously announced acquisition of Englobe, a leading multidisciplined engineering, environmental and inspection services platform. This acquisition establishes Colliers as one of the top players in Canada, complements our rapidly growing engineering operations across the US and Australia, and aligns with our strategy of increasing our high-value recurring revenue streams, which will now represent 72% of our earnings.

本週早些時候，我們完成了先前宣布的對 Englobe 的收購，Englobe 是一家領先的多學科工程、環境和檢查服務平台。此次收購使高力成為加拿大的頂級參與者之一，補充了我們在美國和澳洲快速成長的工程業務，並符合我們增加高價值經常性收入流的策略，目前將占我們收入的72%。

Having such a large percentage of recurring earnings further underscores the Colliers highly differentiated business model and sets us further apart from the others. Since 2015, our committed leadership team with substantial ownership has continued to reposition our company to create growth and value for shareholders.

擁有如此大比例的經常性收益進一步凸顯了高力高度差異化的商業模式，並使我們與其他公司更加不同。自 2015 年以來，我們擁有大量股權的忠誠領導團隊不斷重新定位我們的公司，為股東創造成長和價值。

One step at a time, we have grown Colliers into the global leader it is in commercial real estate and then expanded our business to include three complementary growth engines. Real estate services, engineering and investment management.

我們一步一步將高力發展成為商業房地產領域的全球領導者，然後將我們的業務擴展到包括三個互補的成長引擎。房地產服務、工程和投資管理。

With the acquisition of Englobe, our engineering and project management capabilities have now reached scale with over 8,000 employees generating about $1.3 billion in annualized revenues. As a result, beginning in the third quarter, we will be realigning our segment reporting to focus on these three specific growth engines.

透過收購 Englobe，我們的工程和專案管理能力現已達到規模，擁有 8,000 多名員工，年收入約 13 億美元。因此，從第三季開始，我們將重新調整分部報告，並專注於這三個特定的成長引擎。

This change will enable investors to better appreciate the value, strength and potential of Colliers as a well-managed, growth-oriented professional services and asset management business with a 30-year track record of delivering 20% annualized returns for shareholders.

這項變革將使投資者更認識高力作為一家管理完善、以成長為導向的專業服務和資產管理企業的價值、實力和潛力，該企業擁有30 年為股東提供20% 年化回報的記錄。

Now let me ask Christopher McLernon to discuss some highlights. Once he's completed, Christian will provide his financial report and then we'll open things up for questions. Chris?

現在讓我請克里斯托弗·麥克勒農討論一些亮點。一旦完成，克里斯蒂安將提供他的財務報告，然後我們將開放問題。克里斯？

Thank you, Jay. Good morning, everyone. Colliers had a successful second quarter, marked by growth across all our service lines and segments, reflecting the strength of our diversified platform. Leasing revenues were up 13%, driven by strong activity in the office and industrial asset classes in the Americas and the EMEA regions.

謝謝你，傑伊。大家早安。高力第二季取得了成功，我們所有服務線和細分市場都實現了成長，這反映了我們多元化平台的實力。受美洲和歐洲、中東和非洲地區辦公大樓和工業資產類別強勁活動的推動，租賃收入成長了 13%。

As occupiers are becoming more confident in their business plans, coupled with the improving return to work trends and the flight to quality offices, we are seeing an increased velocity of leasing transactions. For example, office leasing was up 18% globally and notably up 32% in the Americas. We also witnessed strong office leasing growth in several other countries, including Germany, France, the Netherlands, New Zealand, China, Hong Kong and India.

隨著租戶對其業務計劃越來越有信心，再加上重返工作趨勢的改善和優質辦公室的湧入，我們看到租賃交易的速度增加。例如，全球辦公室租賃成長了 18%，尤其是美洲成長了 32%。我們也見證了其他幾個國家辦公室租賃的強勁成長，包括德國、法國、荷蘭、紐西蘭、中國、香港和印度。

As Jay mentioned, Capital Markets showed the first period of growth since the second quarter of 2022. We outperformed industry benchmarks and continued to gain market share, a direct result of our decision to strategically invest in our business and our people. A great example is our debt finance operations in North America, where we saw substantial improvement in loan origination activity particularly in the multifamily asset class.

正如 Jay 所提到的，資本市場呈現出 2022 年第二季以來的首次增長期。我們的表現超越了行業基準，並繼續獲得市場份額，這是我們決定對我們的業務和員工進行策略性投資的直接結果。一個很好的例子是我們在北美的債務融資業務，我們看到貸款發放活動顯著改善，特別是在多戶資產類別中。

Meanwhile, our high value outsourcing advisory services continued to deliver solid growth this quarter. Revenues were up 5% with solid pipelines and revenue visibility across our service lines through to the end of the year. As Jay mentioned, we are extremely excited to welcome Englobe to Colliers. The platform significantly bolsters our engineering and project management capabilities and will deliver exceptional returns over the coming years. Our performance to date is a testament to our strong enterprise and culture.

同時，我們的高價值外包諮詢服務在本季持續實現穩健成長。截至年底，我們的服務線擁有穩固的通路和收入可見性，收入成長了 5%。正如 Jay 所提到的，我們非常高興地歡迎 Englobe 加入高力。該平台顯著增強了我們的工程和專案管理能力，並將在未來幾年帶來卓越的回報。我們迄今為止的業績證明了我們強大的企業和文化。

A unique culture that we have cultivated over many years that is hard to replicate. Colliers has become the platform of choice for entrepreneurial professionals who want to leverage their careers for success. Our latest global engagement survey, which had an impressive 88% participation rate and high engagement scores that exceeded external benchmarks shows that our people remain engaged, motivated and passionate about our business and accelerating success of our clients.

我們多年來培育的獨特文化難以複製。高力已成為想要利用職涯取得成功的創業專業人士的首選平台。我們最新的全球敬業度調查的參與率為令人印象深刻的 88%，敬業度分數超過了外部基準，這表明我們的員工對我們的業務保持敬業度、積極性和熱情，並加速客戶的成功。

Now I'll turn things over to Christian who will provide more details on our financials.

現在我將把事情交給克里斯蒂安，他將提供有關我們財務狀況的更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Chris, and good morning. Please note that all references to revenue growth made on this call are expressed in local currency and that the non-GAAP measures discussed here today are as defined in the materials accompanying this call. Our second quarter revenues were $1.1 billion, up 6% relative to the prior year period. Each of our service lines and segments reported revenue growth for the quarter. Internal growth was 5% overall and was led by double-digit gains in leasing in the Americas and in EMEA.

謝謝你，克里斯，早安。請注意，本次電話會議中所有提及的收入增長均以當地貨幣表示，今天討論的非公認會計原則措施如本次電話會議隨附的材料中所定義。我們第二季的營收為 11 億美元，比去年同期成長 6%。我們的每個服務線和部門都報告了本季的收入成長。內部成長總體為 5%，其中美洲和歐洲、中東和非洲地區的租賃業務實現了兩位數的成長。

Second quarter adjusted EBITDA was $156 million, up 6% over the prior year period with the margin increasing slightly to 13.7%. We continue to be agile in managing our operating costs to match the expected pace of revenues in our transactional businesses. The benefit of these actions was most evident in the Asia Pacific region, where margins were up 120 basis points on essentially flat revenues.

第二季調整後 EBITDA 為 1.56 億美元，比去年同期成長 6%，利潤率小幅成長至 13.7%。我們繼續靈活地管理營運成本，以適應交易業務的預期收入成長速度。這些行動的好處在亞太地區最為明顯，該地區的利潤率增加了 120 個基點，而收入基本上持平。

In our Investment Management segment, we raised $1 billion of new capital commitments during the second quarter, bringing our year-to-date fundraising to $1.5 billion. Our full year fundraising estimate is at the lower end of our previously stated $5 billion to $8 billion range, with the weighting to the fourth quarter. However, our fundraising pipelines are growing and investor interest in our highly differentiated alternative infrastructure and credit strategies as well as more traditional real estate asset classes continues to gain momentum.

在我們的投資管理部門，我們在第二季度籌集了 10 億美元的新資本承諾，使我們今年迄今的籌款額達到 15 億美元。我們的全年募款預估處於先前規定的 50 億至 80 億美元範圍的下限，且權重為第四季。然而，我們的籌款管道正在不斷增長，投資者對我們高度差異化的替代基礎設施和信貸策略以及更傳統的房地產資產類別的興趣繼續增強。

Second quarter assets under management were flat at $96.4 billion. Growth from fundraising was offset by: one, dispositions of assets and older vintage funds, returning capital to investors; two, redemptions in certain open-end funds; and three, modest mark-to-market adjustments, which totaled less than 25 basis points across the portfolio.

第二季管理資產持平，為 964 億美元。籌資成長被以下因素所抵銷：一是資產和舊基金的處置，將資本返還給投資者；二、部分開放式基金的贖回；第三，以市值計價的適度調整，整個投資組合的調整總計不到 25 個基點。

As we mentioned previously, disposition activity in our funds is a healthy process, resulting in the realization of gains and recycling of capital back to investors, which should position us well for future fundraising. We are maintaining our financial outlook for 2024, except for an increase to reflect the partial year impact of newly acquired Englobe. Our operating expectations remain unchanged. We continue to expect a recovery in capital markets activity in the third and fourth quarters, although there is still a risk that this could be delayed to early 2025.

正如我們之前提到的，我們基金的處置活動是一個健康的過程，從而實現收益並將資本回收回投資者，這應該為我們未來的籌款做好準備。我們維持 2024 年的財務展望不變，但上調是為了反映新收購的 Englobe 的部分年度影響。我們的經營預期維持不變。我們繼續預期資本市場活動將在第三季和第四季復甦，但仍有可能推遲到 2025 年初的風險。

In our recurring service lines, outsourcing advisory and investment management, we continue to expect mid- to high single-digit revenue growth for the balance of the year. Regarding our balance sheet, our financial leverage ratio as defined as net debt to pro forma adjusted EBITDA was 2x as of June 30. We expect leverage to rise to the 2.5x range, on account of Englobe, for Q3. Then to decline to approximately 2x by year-end as we generate seasonally strong cash flows and pay down our revolving credit facility.

在我們的經常性服務、外包諮詢和投資管理方面，我們繼續預期今年剩餘時間的收入將實現中高個位數成長。關於我們的資產負債表，截至 6 月 30 日，我們的財務槓桿率（定義為淨債務與預計調整後 EBITDA 比率）為 2 倍。由於 Englobe 的影響，我們預計第三季槓桿率將升至 2.5 倍。然後，隨著我們產生季節性強勁的現金流並償還循環信貸額度，到年底將下降至約 2 倍。

Looking ahead beyond the current year, I am very excited about the prospects for our business. Our new Real Estate Services segment, which will include capital markets and leasing as well as outsourcing is very well positioned for the coming rebound in transactional activity. Our Engineering segment will benefit from public and private sector infrastructure tailwinds in the coming decade and beyond.

展望今年之後，我對我們的業務前景感到非常興奮。我們新的房地產服務部門將包括資本市場、租賃以及外包，為即將到來的交易活動反彈做好了充分準備。我們的工程部門將在未來十年及以後受益於公共和私營部門基礎設施的推動。

Our investment management business is poised for an increase in capital flows to its highly differentiated investment strategies. These three complementary segments collectively are expected to deliver predictable, high single-digit annual internal growth in the years ahead. In addition, our time test and track record of balancing strong internal growth with strategic acquisitions, done the Colliers way should continue to translate into exceptional long-term returns for our shareholders.

我們的投資管理業務可望增加其高度差異化投資策略的資本流動。這三個互補的細分市場預計將在未來幾年實現可預測的高單位數年度內部成長。此外，我們以高力方式實現的時間測試和平衡強勁內部成長與策略收購的記錄應繼續為我們的股東轉化為卓越的長期回報。

That concludes my prepared remarks. I would now like to open the call for questions. Operator, can you please open the line?

我準備好的發言就到此結束。我現在想開始提問。接線員，您能開通線路嗎？

(Operator Instructions) Stephen MacLeod, BMO Capital Markets.

（操作員說明）Stephen MacLeod，BMO 資本市場。

Just a couple of questions. When you think about the new reporting structure, which I think is going to be well received, will you be giving sort of pro forma historicals that we can incorporate into our model and investors can use to assess sort of the margin profile for each of these segments?

只是幾個問題。當您考慮新的報告結構時（我認為這將受到廣泛歡迎），您是否會提供某種形式的歷史記錄，我們可以將其納入我們的模型中，並且投資者可以使用它來評估每種報告的利潤狀況細分？

Yes, Steve, we'll be definitely doing that and look for those with the Q3 reporting.

是的，史蒂夫，我們肯定會這樣做，並尋找那些有第三季報告的人。

Okay. Okay. That's great. And then just on the investment management business with respect to just some of the puts and takes on dispositions versus fundraising. Can you talk about kind of the fundraising that's weighted to Q4? Where that's coming from? Where are you seeing that demand coming from? And then how you expect that to potentially grow or evolve into fiscal 2025?

好的。好的。那太棒了。然後是投資管理業務，涉及一些處置與籌款的看跌期權和承擔。能談談第四季的募款情況嗎？那是從哪裡來的？您認為這種需求來自哪裡？那麼您預期 2025 財年會如何發展或演變？

Yes. So as Christian mentioned, our pipelines -- our fundraising pipelines are stronger than they've been for a long time. And I know I've said that a couple of quarters consistently. What is happening is it's not translates -- translating faster into investments now. We're seeing it this year, but there's a lot of lookers. There's a lot of re-ups. I was just meeting with one of our key guys yesterday, and they were talking about their current fund that's closing this year.

是的。正如克里斯蒂安所提到的，我們的籌款管道比長期以來更強大。我知道我已經連續幾季這麼說了。正在發生的事情是它沒有轉化——現在更快地轉化為投資。我們今年就看到了，但有很多人圍觀。有很多重來的。昨天我剛與我們的一位關鍵人物會面，他們正在談論他們今年即將關閉的現有基金。

And they had 100% re-ups in LPs. The big guys are returning with the same or slightly more investment. The smaller guys are cutting their investments back a little bit because they're being required to reallocate capital, especially in areas where they can't get the money out of some of the funds. Some of the closed-ended funds where they're committed.

他們在有限合夥人中獲得了 100% 的重新提升。大公司正在以相同或略多的投資回歸。較小的公司正在稍微削減投資，因為他們被要求重新分配資本，特別是在他們無法從某些基金中取出資金的領域。他們所投資的一些封閉式基金。

So we think there's a little bit better traction so far in the first half of the year. We're cautiously optimistic that we'll have a good finish to the year. But I think, as Christian said, a little bit lighter than our forecasts, are a little bit lighter than probably we had when we went into the year. I don't think it's going to impact our estimate of profitability. But I think realistically looking at fundraising for the balance of the year might be slightly below where we expect.

因此，我們認為今年上半年到目前為止，牽引力有所改善。我們對今年會有一個好的收尾持謹慎樂觀的態度。但我認為，正如克里斯蒂安所說，比我們的預測要輕一些，比我們進入今年時的情況要輕一些。我認為這不會影響我們對獲利能力的估計。但我認為，現實地考慮今年剩餘時間的籌款情況可能會略低於我們的預期。

Okay. That's good color. And then maybe just turning to the capital markets side of the business, obviously, a nice, modest positive inflection in the quarter. Just curious if you can give a little bit of color into what you're hearing on the ground from your broker network and what your pipeline of visibility -- or what your visibility looks like into the pipeline for activity into the balance of this year as well as into 2025?

好的。這顏色真好啊然後也許只是轉向業務的資本市場方面，顯然，本季出現了良好的、適度的積極變化。只是好奇您是否可以對您從經紀商網絡中聽到的實際情況以及您的可見性渠道進行一些說明，或者您對今年餘下活動的渠道的可見性是什麼樣的以及到2025年？

Stephen, it's Chris here. In regards to your question, I'd say sentiment is shifting to more positive outlook for sure. As there's more certainty in the interest rates that will be coming down, we've seen reductions in Canada, the ECB and now the UK today.

史蒂芬，我是克里斯。關於你的問題，我想說，情緒肯定正在轉向更積極的前景。由於利率下降的確定性更大，我們已經看到加拿大、歐洲央行以及英國今天都降息了。

So there's a lot of confidence that the Fed will do the same thing sometime in the fall. So what we're seeing is that there's a huge increase in activity, a lot more meetings, a lot more pipeline. Our pipeline is growing. And -- but we don't expect normalized market probably into '25. We think it's going to be more of a gradual approach to increasing the market activity.

因此，人們非常有信心聯準會將在秋季的某個時候採取同樣的行動。所以我們看到的是活動大幅增加、會議增加、管道增加。我們的管道正在成長。而且 - 但我們預計市場可能不會在 25 年實現正常化。我們認為這將更像是一種漸進的方法來增加市場活動。

The other thing that I could tell you is that the last 18 months have been incredibly slow on the investment volume, and it's been smaller tickets of $25 million to $100 million. And now we're starting to see a few larger $100 million-plus transactions in the different regions. And this will start to set the transparency of pricing and probably spur more transaction activity. So I think we're very well positioned to take advantage of the pending improvements, and we look forward to leveraging our great teams and platform going forward.

我可以告訴你的另一件事是，過去 18 個月的投資量極其緩慢，而且投資規模較小，只有 2,500 萬美元到 1 億美元。現在我們開始在不同地區看到一些規模超過 1 億美元的交易。這將開始設定定價的透明度，並可能刺激更多的交易活動。因此，我認為我們完全有能力利用即將進行的改進，並且我們期待利用我們優秀的團隊和平台向前發展。

Stephen Sheldon, William Blair.

史蒂芬謝爾頓，威廉布萊爾。

Nice results here. First, just in Outsourcing & Advisory, continued good growth there, but a little deceleration year-over-year. So anything to call out in terms of what's driving that slowdown? Was that driven by any specific business units within that segment? And how are you thinking about underlying growth there over the rest of the year, excluding, obviously, the inorganic boost from Englobe that will be coming on?

這裡的結果很好。首先，僅在外包和諮詢領域，該領域繼續保持良好成長，但比去年同期略有放緩。那麼，對於導致經濟放緩的原因，有什麼值得指出的嗎？這是由該細分市場內的任何特定業務部門推動的嗎？您如何看待今年剩餘時間的潛在成長，顯然不包括 Englobe 即將出現的無機成長？

Yes, Stephen, I mean, the one thing I'd point out there is just ongoing flatness in our valuation business. As you know, our clients are on retainers there. And the new flow comes from capital markets transactions, which are still at depressed levels. So the valuation revenues as a result were pretty flat in the quarter. On a full year basis, obviously, I noted in my comments, we expect mid- to high single-digit growth in Outsourcing & Advisory overall. And I'd say we're well on track to achieve that.

是的，史蒂芬，我的意思是，我要指出的一件事是我們的估值業務持續持平。如您所知，我們的客戶在那裡受聘。而新的資金流則來自資本市場交易，而資本市場交易仍處於低迷水準。因此，本季的估值收入相當穩定。我在評論中指出，顯然，從全年來看，我們預計外包和諮詢業務總體將實現中高個位數成長。我想說，我們正在順利實現這一目標。

Got it. Makes a lot of sense. And then, yes, for Christian, any framework on how we should think about interest expense over the rest of the year as we think about our models, especially with I assume it will likely increase from capital in the acquisition?

知道了。很有道理。然後，是的，對於克里斯蒂安來說，當我們考慮我們的模型時，我們應該如何考慮今年剩餘時間的利息支出，特別是我認為它可能會因收購中的資本而增加？

Yes. Certainly, Englobe. We raised capital earlier this year, as you know, that was applied to repay the revolver. That revolver has now been utilized to finance the Englobe acquisition, which is about USD480 million when we closed on Monday. So you have to add that to your thinking as you map out the rest of the year for interest expense.

是的。當然，恩格洛布。如您所知，我們今年稍早籌集了資金，用於償還左輪手槍。該左輪手槍現已用於為 Englobe 收購提供資金，截至週一收盤時，收購金額約為 4.8 億美元。因此，在規劃今年剩餘時間的利息支出時，您必須將這一點添加到您的想法中。

Jimmy Shan, RBC Capital Markets.

Jimmy Shan，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部。

Obviously, a big quarter for the leasing business. I was wondering --

顯然，對於租賃業務來說，這是一個重要的季度。我想知道--

Jimmy, can you speak a little louder? We are having trouble hearing you.

吉米，你能說大聲點嗎？我們很難聽到你的聲音。

Jimmy a little louder, if you could.

如果可以的話，吉米大聲一點。

Sure. Can you hear me better now?

當然。現在你能聽得更清楚了嗎？

A little better. Go, you're good. Jimmy?

好一點了。走吧，你很好。吉米？

Jimmy has disconnected his line. Himanshu Gupta, Scotia Bank.

吉米斷開了他的線路。希曼舒古普塔，豐業銀行。

So just on the leasing front, I mean it looks like leasing was better than expectations. And I think you mentioned about the office leasing strength in a number of markets. Can you speak to industrial leasing as well? I mean is that an area of strength there as well?

因此，就租賃而言，我的意思是租賃看起來比預期要好。我想您提到了許多市場的辦公室租賃實力。能談談工業租賃嗎？我的意思是，這也是一個強項嗎？

Yes. So Colliers has a strong industrial Leasing and Sales platform. And Leasing and Industrial was up 11% globally for us this year. So we continue to see some good strength there in industrial.

是的。因此高力擁有強大的工業租賃和銷售平台。今年我們的全球租賃和工業成長了 11%。因此，我們繼續看到工業領域的一些良好實力。

Okay. And was it like mostly Americas? Or are you beginning to see in Europe as well?

好的。是不是像大部分美洲一樣？或者您也開始在歐洲看到這一點？

We're seeing it in Europe as well.

我們在歐洲也看到了這種情況。

Okay. Okay. And then just turning to the capital markets, again, showing some stabilization and improvement. Would you say that June was better than April and May, I mean, given the late movement? Or was it like across the board?

好的。好的。然後再次轉向資本市場，顯示出一些穩定和改善。我的意思是，考慮到較晚的運動，您是否會說六月比四月和五月更好？或是全面的嗎？

I would say that, yes, it was slightly better June. But as I mentioned, this is going to be a gradual increase in the activity. I don't think there's a major catalyst moment where there's going to be a rush of transactions. This is really going to grow into Q3 and Q4 and probably hopefully normalizing in '25.

我想說，是的，六月稍微好一點。但正如我所提到的，活動將逐漸增加。我認為不會出現交易激增的主要催化劑時刻。這確實會在第三季和第四季成長，並可能在 25 年恢復正常。

Which I mean, I might add, it's all upside if you think about it because Colliers has said, great year-over-year growth across all sectors with capital markets being flat to the prior year. So as capital markets comes back, it impacts us greatly on the positive side, both in transactions itself, but let's not forget the large investment we made a couple of years ago in debt origination, debt placement et cetera Colliers mortgage. And so there's a lot of upside, I would say, that is pent up, that will start to come back gradually over time, as Chris said. But the way we look at it is it's just net upside for us and just another catalyst to the future.

我的意思是，我可能會補充一點，如果你仔細想想，這都是有利的，因為高力表示，所有行業的同比增長都很大，而資本市場與上一年持平。因此，隨著資本市場的回歸，它對我們產生了巨大的積極影響，包括交易本身，但我們不要忘記幾年前我們在債務發起、債務配售等高力抵押貸款方面進行的大量投資。因此，我想說，有很多被壓抑的好處，隨著時間的推移，這些好處將開始逐漸恢復，正如克里斯所說。但我們看待它的方式是，這對我們來說只是一個淨上升空間，也是未來的另一個催化劑。

Just to add to the conversation, another sign that the market is turning is that land is being transacted again. And so in Q2, land was 19% of our overall sales. So that's a positive sign.

補充一下，市場正在轉向的另一個跡像是土地正在再次交易。因此，在第二季度，土地占我們總銷售額的 19%。所以這是一個正面的訊號。

Got it. And then as you mentioned that capital markets could be normalizing, let's say, next year, what's your definition of normal? I mean, is it the elevated COVID period 2021, '22? Or are we talking like pre-pandemic period? I mean, how do you -- like where does the final capital market share may settle that?

知道了。然後，正如您提到資本市場可能會正常化，比如說明年，您對正常的定義是什麼？我的意思是，這是 2021 年、22 年新冠疫情高峰期嗎？還是我們談論的是大流行前時期？我的意思是，你如何——例如最終的資本市場份額可以在哪裡解決這個問題？

I mean I think what we're hoping is that it gets to the 10-year average in terms of investment volumes.

我的意思是，我認為我們希望投資金額能達到 10 年平均值。

So the other thing to think about here is that if you look over the past three or four years, we've acquired a business in the Nordics, which is a leader in capital markets, which added a tremendous skill set in that area. We've also been recruiting folks in capital markets, debt advisers as well as capital market sales professionals. So our capacity, I think, now is stronger than it ever has been in this space. And certainly, that will be additive as well.

因此，這裡要考慮的另一件事是，如果你回顧過去三、四年，我們收購了北歐的一家企業，該企業是資本市場的領導者，這增加了該領域的巨大技能。我們也一直在招募資本市場人員、債務顧問以及資本市場銷售專業人員。因此，我認為，我們現在在這個領域的能力比以往任何時候都更強大。當然，這也將是累加的。

Sure. Last question is on Investment Management. I think Q2 EBITDA margin came a bit lower. I mean, it looks like you're doing some investments, some additional expenses. So can you speak to it? And then are they done? Or should we continue to see increased investments for the rest of the year?

當然。最後一個問題是關於投資管理。我認為第二季 EBITDA 利潤率略有下降。我的意思是，看起來你正在做一些投資，一些額外的開支。那你能談談嗎？然後他們完成了嗎？或者我們應該在今年剩餘時間內繼續看到投資增加？

Yes. I mentioned we've been making investments in investment management resources and infrastructure over the last year or so, adding capability on fundraising, which means staff and the related costs associated with that staff. It also means spending on new strategies. So that is legal fees to set up new funds, adviser fees, other costs set those funds up.

是的。我提到，在過去一年左右的時間裡，我們一直在投資管理資源和基礎設施方面進行投資，增加籌款能力，這意味著員工以及與員工相關的相關成本。這也意味著在新策略上的支出。這就是設立新基金的法律費用、顧問費以及設立這些基金的其他費用。

And then to execute on those new funds, you also need people to do -- to run those funds and to execute on their asset acquisition plans and so forth. So I think we're going to continue to see some of those costs in the EBITDA result over the next little while. But as the fundraising picks up, the revenue will exceed the incremental costs, we'll see some margins rebound.

然後，為了執行這些新基金，您還需要人們做的事情——運營這些基金並執行其資產收購計劃等等。因此，我認為在接下來的一段時間內，我們將繼續在 EBITDA 結果中看到其中一些成本。但隨著融資的增加，收入將超過增量成本，我們將看到一些利潤率反彈。

Frederic Bastien, Raymond James.

弗雷德里克·巴斯蒂安，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Great to see you gain further scale in engineering and also nice to see your stock being rewarded with an improved valuation here. Now Jay, as you look to surface additional value and as the engineering and investment management businesses continue to grow in size, does it make sense to start considering another split, basically a repeat of what you did with FirstService in 2015.

很高興看到您在工程領域獲得進一步的規模，也很高興看到您的股票在這裡獲得更高的估值。現在，Jay，當您尋求表面附加價值，並且隨著工程和投資管理業務規模不斷擴大，開始考慮另一次拆分是否有意義，基本上是重複您 2015 年對 FirstService 所做的事情。

Well, Fred, you've known us for a long time. So we consider all kinds of options, I don't know, daily maybe three times a day. So we're always looking at those opportunities. For investment management, in particular, we're doing lots of great things.

好吧，弗雷德，你認識我們很久了。所以我們每天都會考慮各種選擇，我不知道，也許一天三次。所以我們一直在尋找這些機會。特別是在投資管理方面，我們正在做很多偉大的事情。

As Christian mentioned, we're investment spending in that business to increase the number of investment strategies we have. We've invested in technology. We've invested in people and fundraising is a little soft. So we wouldn't do any -- there's no rush to do anything until we have good momentum and good strength going forward. And we're building it one step at a time as we always have.

正如克里斯蒂安所提到的，我們對該業務的投資支出是為了增加我們擁有的投資策略的數量。我們投資了技術。我們對人員進行了投資，但籌款活動卻有些軟弱。所以我們不會做任何事情——在我們擁有良好的勢頭和前進的力量之前，不急於做任何事情。我們一如既往地一步一步地建造它。

But we're going to have to look at those kinds of things generating incremental share value because as you know, a company like Colliers, which is as well managed as it is and global in proportion and great growth engines, we believe that we're trading at substantially below the value that we should be trading at on an ordinary in a normal circumstance. So yes, we're considering all options. But there's no rush for us.

但我們將不得不關注那些產生增量股票價值的事情，因為如你所知，像高力這樣的公司管理良好，在全球範圍內佔有一席之地，並且擁有巨大的增長引擎，我們相信我們'我們的交易價格遠低於我們在正常情況下應以普通價格進行交易的價格。所以是的，我們正在考慮所有選擇。但我們並不著急。

Jimmy Shan, RBC Capital Markets.

Jimmy Shan，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部。

Sorry about that earlier. My question was about the leasing revenue and how are you thinking about the revenue growth in the back half of the year?

之前的事很抱歉。我的問題是關於租賃收入，您如何看待下半年的收入成長？

Yes. So I think the revenue growth from leasing will continue at this pace. As we see -- the leasing is usually linked to GDP growth. And if there's more confidence in the economy, we'll continue to see leasing strength.

是的。因此，我認為租賃收入的成長將繼續以這種速度成長。正如我們所見，租賃通常與 GDP 成長掛鉤。如果人們對經濟更有信心，我們將繼續看到租賃的強勁勢頭。

Okay. So that 13%, if you don't see that as a bit of an anomaly or that is a reflection of sort of the catch-up of prior leasing decisions by tenants being delayed? It's sort of is more of a function of a recovery of the market as opposed to a catch-up? Is that -- would that be fair?

好的。那麼，13%，如果你不認為這有點反常，或者這反映了租戶之前的租賃決定被推遲了？這更像是市場復甦的結果，而不是追趕的結果？這樣公平嗎？

Well, I mean, look, Jimmy, leasing is up 8% year-to-date. I think in that range is a good number for the full year. And we can't predict when leasing activity is going to fall exactly or not -- when it's going to occur exactly, that's a better way to put it. But certainly, there are strong signs as Chris mentioned, to continued growth.

好吧，我的意思是，吉米，租賃今年迄今成長了 8%。我認為這個範圍對於全年來說是一個不錯的數字。我們無法預測租賃活動何時會準確下降——準確地說是何時發生。但可以肯定的是，正如克里斯所提到的，有明顯的跡象表明持續成長。

I mean the other thing I would mention just from a standpoint of looking at the components of our business, and realizing value. Leasing has demonstrated over this entire period that it is as resilient as the other pieces of our business. In fact, more so. It's almost recurring in nature. If you take a look at it going back quarter-for-quarter, over the same, let's call it, 24 months that has impacted capital markets.

我的意思是我要從審視我們業務的組成部分和實現價值的角度提到的另一件事。在整個時期內，租賃業已證明它與我們其他業務一樣具有彈性。事實上，更是如此。這在自然界中幾乎反覆出現。如果你回顧每個季度的情況，我們稱之為 24 個月，這對資本市場產生了影響。

So when you step back and you look at this business and you take a look at the various component parts, the only part that is really cyclical is capital markets. The rest is very consistent, give or take, and leasing has surely demonstrated that to me over the course of the last couple of years.

因此，當你退後一步，看看這個行業，看看它的各個組成部分時，你會發現唯一真正具有週期性的部分是資本市場。其餘的都非常一致，無論給予或接受，租賃在過去幾年中向我證明了這一點。

Yes. No, that makes sense. And then you mentioned the loan origination business seeing big growth. I wondered what sort of growth did you see in the quarter? And how big of a business is that now sort of relative to the overall capital markets business?

是的。不，這是有道理的。然後您提到貸款發放業務出現了大幅成長。我想知道您在本季看到了什麼樣的成長？相對於整個資本市場業務來說，現在的業務有多大？

Yes. So it's still quite small on an overall basis. We saw tremendous growth in loan origination during the quarter, up almost double the prior year's quarter. But we are seeing is the profitability per loan being originated is lower and the mix is a little bit different. The Fannie Mae GSE originations are more profitable. Those have not rebounded to levels we saw previously.

是的。所以整體來說還是很小的。我們看到本季貸款發放量大幅成長，幾乎是去年同期的兩倍。但我們看到每筆貸款的獲利能力較低，而且貸款結構也略有不同。房利美 (Fannie Mae) GSE 的發起利潤更高。這些尚未反彈至我們之前看到的水平。

There's a lot of refinancing happening in multifamily. There are debt funds and other investors coming in with short-term capital on these, and we are participating in placing that debt but at lower margins because it's not the same as doing a Fannie Mae type of origination, and it doesn't have the same kind of profit potential. So it's a nice part of our business. We generate today a little bit north of $100 million of revenue in that segment but has potential to be significantly more than that as the market rebounds.

多戶住宅中發生了大量的再融資。有債務基金和其他投資者以短期資本參與這些債務，我們正在參與發行這些債務，但利潤較低，因為這與房利美類型的發起不同，而且它沒有同樣的盈利潛力。所以這是我們業務的一個很好的部分。目前，我們在該領域的收入略高於 1 億美元，但隨著市場反彈，我們的收入有可能大大超過這個數字。

And another key factor to the growth in this area is our recruitment. So we've had a number of strong recruitments both in Canada and the US bolstering this business.

該領域成長的另一個關鍵因素是我們的招募。因此，我們在加拿大和美國進行了大量的招聘，以支持這項業務。

But it's not yet really paid yet because of the slowness in capital markets. Again, it's another segment of our business that's there. We have a national platform, both in Canada and the US and we haven't realized the benefits yet. And to us, it's just upside over the next couple of quarters, we hope are longer.

但由於資本市場緩慢，尚未真正支付。同樣，這是我們業務的另一個部分。我們在加拿大和美國都有一個全國性平台，但我們尚未意識到其好處。對我們來說，這只是未來幾季的上行趨勢，我們希望能持續更長的時間。

Daryl Young, Stifel.

達裡爾楊，斯蒂菲爾。

I just had one on the Englobe acquisition. Just wondering if there's any cross-border element to this in terms of leveraging some of the specialty capabilities Englobe has under the US team? And then also how you're thinking about building from here? I know you've mentioned there's tucked under opportunities from here, but are you at a scale now that you can start recruiting professionals organically and this starts to really spool up the organic growth side of things on maybe even a global basis?

我剛剛收到一份有關 Englobe 收購的消息。只是想知道在利用 Englobe 美國團隊擁有的一些專業能力方面是否存在任何跨境因素？那麼您是如何考慮從這裡開始建造的呢？我知道你已經提到這裡蘊藏著機會，但是你現在的規模是否可以開始有機地招募專業人士，並且這開始真正在全球範圍內推動事物的有機增長？

So let me unpack a couple of those things. First of all, one of the beauties of Englobe was that it was entirely a Canadian platform that was coast to coast. And we see a great opportunity to continue to consolidate and strengthen that business across Canada. The other thing that people don't really appreciate is that in addition to Englobe, Colliers' project leaders is the largest project management firm in Canada by a country mile.

讓我來解開其中的一些內容。首先，Englobe 的優點之一是它完全是一個橫跨海岸到海岸的加拿大平台。我們看到了繼續鞏固和加強加拿大各地業務的絕佳機會。另一件人們不太欣賞的事情是，除了 Englobe 之外，Colliers 的專案領導者也是加拿大最大的專案管理公司。

And all of the other engineering firms have project management and Englobe has no project management in it. If you put the two of them together, Englobe might be one of the top three or four players in Canada. So we're very excited about that acquisition. We're very excited to be able to marry the relationships between Colliers project leaders and Englobe, which will be rebranded as Colliers over time. And so that's sort of the first question you asked.

所有其他工程公司都有專案管理，而 Englobe 沒有專案管理。如果把他們兩個放在一起，恩格洛布可能是加拿大排名前三或四的球員之一。所以我們對這次收購感到非常興奮。我們非常高興能夠將高力專案負責人與 Englobe 之間的關係結合起來，隨著​​時間的推移，Englobe 將更名為高力。這就是你問的第一個問題。

The second question is there is a lot of international, primarily right now, US, Canada, business and more importantly, perhaps is expertise in certain areas that can be transferred Canada-US, US-Canada and professionals can work on the same types of projects regardless of the border. So we see over time that accelerating. And obviously, for Canadian investors, you'll know that the costs, the labor costs in Canada are actually lower than the labor cost on average in the US. And so there's some opportunities, I think, to gain some additional synergies there.

第二個問題是，有許多國際企業，主要是現在的美國、加拿大企業，更重要的是，也許某些領域的專業知識可以在加拿大-美國、美國-加拿大之間轉移，專業人員可以從事相同類型的工作。因此，隨著時間的推移，我們看到這種情況正在加速。顯然，對於加拿大投資者來說，你會知道成本，加拿大的勞動成本實際上低於美國的平均勞動成本。因此，我認為，有一些機會可以在那裡獲得一些額外的協同效應。

So, as Christian said in his comments, we're very excited about that acquisition. We had our eye on that for probably three years, four years, and it had to work its way through the system. But for us, it was the perfect addition and it filled us out in North America. But we see great growth opportunities for that business in Europe. And obviously, Australia is growing rapidly, New Zealand. And so we think that there'll be lots of growth yet to come over the coming years.

因此，正如克里斯蒂安在評論中所說，我們對這項收購感到非常興奮。我們關注這個問題可能已經三年、四年了，它必須在整個系統中發揮作用。但對我們來說，這是完美的補充，它讓我們在北美充滿了活力。但我們在歐洲看到了該業務的巨大成長機會。顯然，澳洲和紐西蘭正在迅速成長。因此，我們認為未來幾年還將出現大量成長。

Just to add to that, Jay, I think Daryl was asking specifically about Canadian tuck-in opportunities. And I do think there are a significant number of tuck-in opportunities for us, and we've got a pipeline already that we're actively pursuing. So we hope to be able to execute on a few of those to build scale -- additional scale for Englobe and additional practice areas, additional geographic coverage for Englobe in the years to come.

補充一點，傑伊，我認為達裡爾專門詢問了加拿大的吃東西的機會。我確實認為我們有大量的機會，而且我們已經有了一個正在積極尋求的管道。因此，我們希望能夠執行其中一些措施來擴大規模——在未來幾年內擴大 Englobe 的規模和其他業務領域，擴大 Englobe 的地理覆蓋範圍。

(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this time. Please proceed.

（操作員說明） 目前沒有其他問題。請繼續。

Okay. Thank you, operator, and thanks, everyone, for participating, and we look forward to visiting again on our third quarter conference call. Thank you.

好的。謝謝運營商，也謝謝大家的參與，我們期待在第三季的電話會議上再次拜訪。謝謝。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the conference call. Thank you for your participation, and have a nice day.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。